36: Embracing Your Sensitive Awareness

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
William Allen (00:00):
We need all types .
We do need those people onlower end of sensitivity that
may take more risk, the peoplethat push things forward, and
our society tends to praisethose people and reward them
very, very well.
But what's really cool aboutwhat's going on now in the world
, and especially with moreawareness about high sensitivity
, is we're starting to recognizeour gifts and what the world

(00:23):
needs from us, and especiallyright now.

April Snow (00:34):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP

(00:56):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withWilliam Allen about the complex
journey of embracing your highsensitivity, the challenges
faced by HSP men, andacknowledging your natural
resilience and awareness.
William is an author with awriter's heart and researcher's
mind.
After getting a degree inpsychology with an eye on doing

(01:17):
research, he recalibrated for acareer in information technology
After retiring early from hiscorporate job.
He then started ahypno-coaching and neurofeedback
brain training business in Bend, oregon.
Then, in late 2016, he beganhis blog, the Sensitive man,
about his experiences as ahighly sensitive man.

(01:38):
The blog became the genesis ofhis first book, confessions of a
Sensitive man.
His newest book, on being aSensitive man, focuses on how to
live in the world, and he feelsthat HSP males need to take
their keen insights andintuition and make them public.
He would like to shed more lighton highly sensitive males and

(01:59):
the much-needed role they needto take in our society, for more
HSP resources and to see behindthe scenes video from the
podcast, join me on Instagram,tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive
Strengths or sign up for myemail list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational

(02:21):
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Bill, can you start off bytelling us your HSP discovery

(02:51):
story, how and when you realizedthat you're a highly sensitive
person.

Oh sure, absolutely.
It's actually kind of anevolution, as I had noted.
As a highly sensitive person,because you know how aware we
are of things and how weinteract with our environment, I
knew from childhood there wassomething different about me.
Of course, I heard over andover again many times well, you
know, you're too sensitive andyou're too emotional and you too

(03:19):
handle criticism too poorly.
So I started getting sort ofsocialized to this idea, to the
term sensitive, as a child,although it wasn't in the best
of lights.
And I grew up, you know, wentthrough my adulthood, early
adulthood, college experiences,having a family and work, career
and everything else, and Ididn't know that this was a

(03:44):
trait until about 2005.
I was probably about 50, 55years old when I found out about
it as a trait.
It's something you know.
You know that you're differentthat way, but a lot of times you
get a little too judgmentalwith yourself because it doesn't
sort of fit into the norm.
But Douglas Eby had a newsletter.

(04:04):
I really got drawn to himbecause he was a psychologist
and was also involved in someway in the film industry and I
thought those are two greatcombinations and he had
suggested at that time to read abook about high sensitivity,
which was Elaine's book on herfirst book.
So I picked up the book and Iread it and you know I went

(04:28):
through it and it was likeeverything was me Yep, that's me
, that's me, that's me.
But you know, at the end of theday April it was hard for me to
get my head and heart wrappedaround the idea of being a
sensitive man.
It just all those years ofconditioning and being told this
, that and the other aboutsensitivity or my emotionality

(04:50):
or any of the traits that wehave that are associated with
sensitivity was a bad thing.
So I acknowledged it, but Ididn't embrace it and I didn't
accept it.
It took me almost 10 years afterthat, after I had retired from
my career, to sit down and startblogging about high sensitivity
, and so it was in that processof writing and researching and I

(05:15):
was asking questions that Ididn't see anybody else writing
about.
They were about highlysensitive men, they were about
circumstances that highlysensitive men would be in and so
forth and so on, and that wasmy initial self-education about
the trait and that was the thingthat got me to the point where
I put my arms around it and saidI'm okay with this, this is who

(05:38):
I am and the rest is history,as they say.
I wrote two books about it andthe rest is history, as they say
.
I wrote two books about it andthat was in and of itself a
great self-discovery on what thetrait was, but that's kind of
how I came about.
It was a long way long journey,but it's taken me to where I am
today.

April Snow (05:58):
It's amazing what you're sharing resonates so much
, and I've heard other storiesthat are similar, where we know
there's something differentabout us early on in life just
by how people respond to ouremotions, our experience, or how
our experience is so different.
But it's different than knowing.
This is a trait.
This is something specific thata lot of people go through.
You said it took you about 10years to embrace it.

(06:20):
That's from 2005 to 2015.

Yes.

April Snow (06:24):
Wow, okay, it's a long journey, isn't it to accept
it?
That's from 2005 to 2015.
Yes, wow, okay, it's a longjourney, isn't it to accept?
It, especially when you've beentold it's a negative, it's a
deficit, especially as a highlysensitive man.

Yeah, and I would never tell anybody that I was
highly sensitive.
I wouldn't just start aconversation about it.
I was a little bit embarrassed,like I said, because of the
past training that I had gottenin, socialization that I'd
gotten as a child and I grew upin a very conservative part of
the country in the South.
This is the way men aresupposed to behave and they

(06:53):
don't do these things and thoseare feminine things and you
don't want to go there.
So it was going against thatindoctrination that, you know,
was something I finally just wasable to challenge in my own
head and I'm glad I did.

April Snow (07:09):
Yeah, it has to be so counterintuitive to go
against what you've been told,almost like going against your
own survival or your ownacceptance at that deep level of
this is how men are supposed tobe.
This is what's acceptable, andthen needing to rewrite that it
must have been incrediblydifficult.

It was challenging, I'll put it that
way, but the idea was thatyou're absolutely right.
When you start to realizeyou're living inauthentically
and to me, because, as a highlysensitive person, I think we put
a lot of emphasis on meaningand purpose in life and when you
start to realize you're walkinga path that's not you and to

(07:47):
start opening the door andliberating yourself to being who
you really are, that's one ofthe greatest, I think, gifts of
enlightenment for yourself thatany person can have, and I was
really glad to be able to dothat.

April Snow (08:00):
Yeah, it's so important.
We often aren't livingauthentically.
We're putting ourselves in abox, we're denying parts of
ourselves, we're cutting off ouremotions as much as we can.
I'm curious when you started toembrace the trait?
What started to shift in yourlife, if there's anything you
can point to.

I think.
Well, first of all I was on apath of self acceptance that was
really hard for me up to thatpoint is to start accepting who
I was.
But then I started realizingabout the traits themselves, the
fact that I had compared myselfover the years, especially at
work, about how I process thingsdifferently than other people
do.
I process emotions differently,I tend to be more empathetic,

(08:41):
you know like highly sensitivepeople are, and so learning
about this as a trait, and therewere behaviors that I had gone
through in my life because Iwasn't living authentically, I
was doing things that werecounterproductive to me and I
started to realize why.
After I'd gone through this andafter I had read Elaine's books

(09:04):
and especially her great blogsthat she has and writing about
them myself you know you alwayshear from therapists.
You should write things down,you should journal, you should
do.
Doing a blog is very much doinga journal, but doing it
publicly and that process itself, being able to question things,
being able to research thingsand get answers to questions.

(09:27):
I had explained a lot of mylife, so it was a self-awareness
thing more than anything else.
I began to appreciate some ofthe things that I had done in
the past that I had questioned,but now I knew why, and that was
very important.

April Snow (09:41):
Yeah, having that context is everything important.
Yeah, having that context iseverything.
It really does shift like, oh,this, I'm not living in
alignment with who I am, with mytemperament.
Could you say more?
We talked, we've kind of dancedaround it, but I would love to
go deeper into the uniqueexperiences or challenges of
being highly sensitive in a man.
I know that there's a lot ofpressure to be tough, to be

(10:03):
stoic, to not be so impacted.
I'm wondering what have youseen with yourself or with your
coaching clients around thatexperience?

Well, one of the things I've written a blog
recently and I think it's oneyou caught onto.
It was about diversity withinthe community of highly
sensitive people, and when I waswriting at the beginning, I was
writing from my experience andgeneralizing to all highly
sensitive people.
And when I was writing at thebeginning I was writing from my
experience and generalizing toall highly sensitive men.
What I've learned over time iswe have a great diversity of
people even within that littlenarrow slither of highly

(10:35):
sensitive men versus highlysensitive people in general.
So I try to be careful not togeneralize too much.
But I have seen, especiallywith my men's group and working
with men, highly sensitive men,certain things that I think are
challenging for us.
Particularly challenging Oneagain is living up to that
masculine hype, that masculinetemplate that culture has

(11:00):
embedded on all men, not justhighly sensitive men, embedded
on all men, not just highlysensitive men.
And I think in many ways it isproblematic for men period,
because the expectation is thatwe deny a lot of our humanity in
being men.
So, for highly sensitive men,if I were to go up and ask a
highly sensitive man or a groupof highly sensitive men, are you

(11:21):
concerned about yourmasculinity.
I think the interpretation veryoften would be well, not really
, but I don't match up to whatother men are supposed to be or
what the cultural norm is.
But they don't sit there andsay, well, I don't feel
masculine enough, I don't feellike a man inside.
Well, this is kind of the rub,right.

(11:43):
Personally you don't feel thatway, but when you compare
yourself to others, you compareyourself to the norm.
That's where it becomesproblematic and I think it's
difficult for highly sensitivemen very often to talk about
that, that disconnect, that theidea that society says you have
to be unemotional, you have tobe stoic, you have to know

(12:04):
everything, you can't ever havea problem and you can't ask for
help.
It's not cool to be nurturing,it's not cool to be empathetic.
You need to be kind of thiscold and calculated logical
creature like a machine and ofcourse, again, it denies
humanity.
So that's probably one of thebiggest things that in my

(12:26):
experience with working withhighly sensitive men that comes
up.
Okay, it's a thing that comes upquite a bit.
Another thing is and this isreally something I've noticed
with the men's group is thatthere is a longing for a sense
of community with other men whoare highly sensitive.
I think a lot of these guyshave lived, like I did, very

(12:48):
much alone, with our sort ofsecreting away, the idea that
we're highly sensitive peopleand so they're looking for other
men to say is your experiencelike mine, what do we have in
common?
That kind of thing?
So it's that sense of isolationand lack of community.
I think that becomes kind of achallenge with a lot of men.
I've got some points writtendown.

April Snow (13:09):
Oh, great yes.

Yeah, I don't know about this, but I think
finally, if I was thinking bigthree kind of things is they
don't really have a foundationwith which to work, like I did
for most of my adult life.
Elaine didn't write her bookuntil the mid-90s.
By that time I was already 40years old, so I had gone through
all this time of my life whereI had nothing to go on.

(13:34):
You know, I had friends thatwere highly sensitive, but
neither one of us knew that wewere a group of friends, that we
were sensitive, that there wasa personality trait for this, a
temperament trait.
So I think that's another bigchallenge for a lot of highly
sensitive men.
They don't know that there's acommunity out there and they
don't know that there'seducation that they can receive

(13:56):
in learning about what the toolis to help them deal with some
of the other challenges thatcome up.

April Snow (14:02):
Right, living completely in the dark, you said
boxed in.
Being a man is so.
It just as you're describing it.
You know not being able to feel, not being able to have a need,
always having to be tough andknow the answer to everything.
It seems so suffocating andlimiting and so not having a
space to express, to connect.
It's really difficult as ahuman.

And you know April.
This is something that affects,as I said before, all men,
right.

April Snow (14:30):
Right.

In fact, I'm writing a blog today.
In fact, we're talking aboutthe fact that this impacts
especially the sensitivity partof it.
It's not just the HSPs, butit's those.
If you look at it sort of as abell curve, probably 50% of men
have a tendency towards highsensitivity or tendency towards

(14:53):
sensitivity, those guys areimpacted as well, but not only
that all men.
The expectations we put on ouryoung boys who are just learning
about life and learning aboutbeing human, their emotions and
their feelings and things likethat, they immediately get
quashed when they're young.
And they say don't cry, don't belike a girl, as if being like a

(15:15):
girl would be the worst thingyou could possibly be right?
So that's something that mencarry with them, whether you're
sensitive or not.
Is this expectation that you'resupposed to be this robot and
we can't do it?

April Snow (15:29):
No, because you're not a robot.
You're a living, breathinghuman with emotion, and I
appreciate that you're seeingthat all men suffer with this.
All men are put in this box orput under these just awful
expectations, these rigidexpectations.
And I want to go back tosomething you said earlier,
which was when a sensitive manchecks in with themselves,

(15:50):
usually it seems like they'reokay with their masculinity as
it is.
But when you put it into thecontext of the bigger picture
that's when it becomes thecomparison is the problem like
why not?
I'm not matching up to what I'msupposed to be.
But if we just look at theminternally, it's okay.
Everything feels the way itshould be.

You know, I think for the most part they look at
themselves and they say, yes,I'm a man.

April Snow (16:12):
I'm okay with that.
There's no question.

There's no check.
But when you say, am I a man inthe world?
That's when it changes, becauseit goes outside of self and
it's externalized and they haveto do like we all do at some
point in our lives.
We compare ourselves to otherpeople, the group that we're in,
and this idea that they're notmeasuring up because they don't

(16:35):
necessarily like all the thingsthat we call a traditional male
would like or what other menmight like, and you look at your
behaviors in the context of theworld where you maybe openly
show emotion more, you're movedmore by things you express
empathy and nurturing.
And then there's those thingslike the way we process

(16:56):
information slower, morethoughtfully, more deeply.
And if you're in a corporateenvironment, like I was and I
was a manager in an ITenvironment for a major bank the
ability to quickly process andmake decisions is something that
is prized and taking theapproach that I did, which is my

(17:16):
natural approach, would be tothoughtfully go through data,
weigh up things and alternativesbefore trying to regurgitate
some kind of a solution.
That was difficult for me andit also made me feel like you
know you're not workinglogically like other men do and
that kind of stuff, because Idid rely a lot of times on my
intuition to come up withsolutions and so forth, and then

(17:40):
finally being able to sensethings that other people miss.
They get really frustratingwith you when you go yeah, but
look at this, did you not seethat?
So, yeah, if you throw theentire package out, you take it
outside of self and you go outinto the world, it can be a bit
challenging at times to think,okay, do I measure up?
What am I then, if I'm not likethem and I'm not like this

(18:02):
ideal?

April Snow (18:03):
Right, do I measure up?
That's a big, big question.
How do you grapple with that?
As a highly sensitive man, I'mjust thinking about what do you
need?
How do we support you?
Because the world as of rightnow isn't changing much?

I mean it's changing, but you're still up
against that masculine ideal Ithink the number one thing is to
shift your attention, and shiftyour as an individual, as a
highly sensitive man.
You would shift your attentionto realizing that you are
different and that it's okay tobe different, right?
One of the great things I thinkElaine has done over the years

(18:38):
is emphasize this is not adisorder.
Okay, it's not a problem.
It's not a problem.
You know, it is actually and Ilove the way she put this as an
evolutionary quality to thisthat nature's baked this into
the population, not only of us,but 100 other animal species,
that this is normal and we needthis and it's an important

(19:01):
survival characteristic.
And once you start assimilatingthat information, then you
realize, okay, I am different,but it's okay.
And then the comparisons startto fall away and you start to
realize that you're not a freakof nature, but you are carefully
been placed by nature into thehuman population because of your
thoughtfulness, because of yourobservational skills, because

(19:24):
of the way you think and, Ithink, most importantly, because
of your empathy and ability tosee other people and live in
other people's worlds, so thatyou can identify and they can
identify with you.
So it's a shift.
It's like you know, I alwaysthink of it like this Carlos
Castaneda wrote the books withDon Juan.
There was a part in one of thebooks where Don Juan wrapped him

(19:47):
right on the back of theshoulder and right at the
shoulder blades and it was sucha blow that it shifted his
attention.
That's what it was for andthat's, kind of metaphorically,
what we have to do, not only asHSP men but as HSPs period, to
make that shift jump that letsus change the kind of paradigm

(20:09):
and way we view ourselves.

April Snow (20:11):
Which is exactly what you've done yourself, going
from sensitivity as a deficitto sensitivity as something to
be accepted.
I don't know if we need tocelebrate it, but we at least
can accept it as normal, aspurposeful, as useful.
I just think about you being atwork processing that data.
I think just be a perfectperson to do that right.

(20:32):
You're bringing your strongdepth of processing, but you're
also bringing your intuition andyour emotionality, which is
perfect for making important,complicated decisions.

Yes, and I think it engages all aspects of your
humanity when you do that.
We're often taught as men, butas a culture because we have,
unfortunately, and I hope it'sshifting is this heavily
masculine way of running societyand it discounts emotion, it
discounts intuition and empathyand those things that highly

(21:05):
sensitive people bring to theplate, and I'm hoping that we
get more and more of our highlysensitive people, both male and
female, to start recognizingthat, but particularly men,
because I think we can be good,excellent role models for other
men to utilize those things.

April Snow (21:24):
Absolutely Highly sensitive men can be amazing
emotional leaders.
Also, as you're talking, I'mthinking we need to redefine
masculinity in general to makemore space, because you can be
masculine and intuitive,masculine and emotional,
masculine and nurturing, and wewant men to be more whole humans
.

Yes, absolutely, and I think that's a very key
point is that we embrace ourentire humanity.
We have emotions for reasons,and I'm not discounting
emotional regulation, I'm notdiscounting being able to be
resilient with our emotions, andso forth.
Sometimes they can overwhelm us, but the idea is to suppress or

(22:03):
discount them or not evenacknowledge them.
To me, that's wrong.
We're built in with thesethings for a purpose, and to
deny our being able to have theemotion is not only wrong, but
it's not healthy.

April Snow (22:21):
It's not healthy, and when we deny our emotions,
that's a straight path todysregulation honestly.
Yes, right when we start torepress and they come out
sideways in anger or otherbehaviors that don't feel
aligned with who we are.
So being able to feel ouremotions, as you're saying, not
to a point of them being out ofcontrol or completely taking us
over, but just having them bepresent because they do serve a

(22:43):
purpose, they're useful,absolutely.
Mm-hmm, having them be presentbecause they do serve a purpose,
they're useful Absolutely.
Can you speak to other waysthat sensitivity is maybe been
an asset, one that you've cometo accept, maybe looking back
and realize, oh, that actuallywas a gift or was useful in my
life, even if I didn't recognizeit at the time?

Yeah, going back to my corporate days, it is
actually kind of a STEM field,and in STEM you focus on
scientific observation and beingimpartial and looking at the
data and that kind of thing.
And when you're talking aboutprogramming which a lot of my

(23:25):
staff were programmers there's away to do it, there's a way not
to do it.
It either works or it doesn'twork.
It's kind of binary that way,and so people tend to treat each
other in those kinds of terms.
It's very objective, it's notvery emotional, it's right or
wrong, whatever.
And what I felt like I broughtto the table as a manager was I

(23:46):
cared about the people I caredabout when they went home at
night.
A lot of my staff at the timethis was way before COVID were
working from home.
It was an option that was madeavailable to them, which was
really good, but I tried to bevery cognizant of them working
way beyond the normal hours andtrying to edify them by helping
them get the training theyneeded and all that kind of

(24:08):
stuff.
So when I left Wells Fargo andI retired, I got so many felt
messages from staff who said youknow, you treated me like a
human being, you cared about meand that was so important to me.
That was kind of a validationthat doing that was a good thing
, that was a positive thing, andI think my sensitivity shone

(24:32):
through doing that.
I was a people manager.
They weren't just numbers to meand they weren't just workers
to extract more hours out of.
They were human beings and Ithink that was one of the things
that I saw that as an absolutebonus.
But you know what, april, Ithink the greatest thing that I
think of the gift of highsensitivity, if you look at the

(24:55):
four main characteristics thatElaine has brought up the does
model, depth of processingoverwhelm happens to happen to
us overstimulation emotionalityand empathy.
And then, of course, sensingthe subtle.
The output to all of thosethings and I think this is
something that's very importantis what I call sensitive

(25:15):
awareness.
It can be called environmentalawareness, emotional awareness,
whatever you want to call it.
I call it sensitive awarenessbecause it relies on our
sensitive processing powers, andwhat that does is it makes two
things really that are importantto come out of that.
One is it makes us aware of howour environment impacts us.

(25:36):
So we know when something's notworking.
We know when something's notworking well and it's not good
for us.
We also know when it is goodand when things should be
encouraged and it's not good forus.
We also know when it is goodand when things should be
encouraged.
But the other thing that I thinka lot of people miss on this is
it also makes us aware of ourimpact on other people.
That makes us aware there's somany people that walk through

(25:56):
life you know we use this termnarcissist, maybe a little too
much in our society, but thepoint is they're not aware of
what they're doing to otherpeople and a lot of people go
through life never payingattention to that Highly
sensitive people, I think, havethat in complete reverse.
We are very much aware.

(26:17):
If I say something that hurtsyour feelings, I feel it, I know
it right away, and that's whatthat sensitive awareness does.

April Snow (26:39):
Right away, and that's what that sensitive
awareness does and I think thatis by far, in a way, the
greatest gift If you were to ourimpact on others, what others
need, how to make this wholething work and just going back
to that, the evolutionarypurpose of our trait we're
noticing, we're making sureeveryone's okay.
We need that.
We need the people that arejust going to dive in too, but

(27:02):
we need us that are going tohang back and like how's
everyone doing?
How am I, how can I be apositive influence?
Which is exactly what you didat work, maybe without even
knowing it, just being yourself.

Absolutely, absolutely, and that's important
.
A point you made just a secondago is that we need all types.
We do need those people.
Let's say, if it's a bell curve, the people on the lower end of
sensitivity.
Well, there are people that maytake more risk, they may take
more impulsive action, but inmany ways, they're the people
that push culture forward.
They push things forward, andour society tends to praise

(27:38):
those people and reward themvery, very well.
But what's really cool aboutwhat's going on now in the world
, and especially with moreawareness about high sensitivity
, is the other end of the curveis just as important as the
curve that goes out and takesthe chances and takes the risk.
Now, I realize there are somehigh sensation-seeking,

(27:58):
sensitive people.
That's fine too, but what I'mtalking about is there's that
balance right that we need tohave to keep the ship upright,
and I think that's where we'restarting to recognize our gifts
and what the world needs from us, and especially right now.

April Snow (28:16):
Absolutely Right.
We're realizing that it's acollaborative effort.
We need each other.
Yes, it's not all just the kindof risk takers extroverted like
hyper extroverted people whoare out there jumping right in.
We need that balance from thesensitive people as well.

Absolutely yeah absolutely.
And I think as more people findout, more people come online.
If you will come on board withthe trait and recognize it,
you'll start to see somemovement there, and I'm seeing
it now and sensing it now, andwe just need to keep educating
our peeps, right.

April Snow (28:51):
That's right, that's really it.
Just letting folks know thatthis is real.
This is important.
It's naturally occurring and sothis next generation or next
few generations can grow upknowing about it, not feeling
different or ostracized orrepressing their sensitivity,
but using it as a gift or as atool.

Yeah, and I kind of like to look at it that way
too.
I know a lot of people say it'sa superpower and all that, and
there is a gift to this.
There is a giftedness to this.

April Snow (29:26):
Right.

But if you look at it in the whole context of
things, like we're talking aboutthe bell curve, that we're all
in this together, we all needeach other, that it's just a way
that nature has said I'm goingto take a certain percentage of
people and they're going to bethe risk takers, and another
certain percent that are goingto be the thoughtful, cautious
advisors and counselors that aregoing to be the thoughtful,

(29:46):
cautious advisors and counselorsspiritual people to a lot of
extent, to offer that balance,and I think that's how I look at
it.

April Snow (29:54):
It's just a natural thing.
That's it.
It's it and I have kind ofpulled away from that superpower
label because I do want toemphasize that that this is just
what we personally bring to thetable, and then we're balanced
out by the folks who aren't bornwith the highly sensitive trait
.
So let's just normalize that.

Exactly.
This is what.

April Snow (30:11):
I bring, this is what you bring.
We're all working together.

Exactly.
I totally think that's aperfect way of putting it.

April Snow (30:17):
Yeah, so, as we're able to step up and use these
abilities, how do we keep theoverwhelm at bay, or how do you
personally keep that at bay soyou can show up with your
thoughtfulness and yourcreativity and your empathy and
your intuitiveness?

Yeah, that's a great question because it weighs
on just about every highlysensitive person.
I know.
How do I deal with my overwhelm, how do I deal with
overstimulation?
The thing about it is andsomething I learned before right
after I left corporate, Istarted my own business in Bend.
It started off as a hypnosisbusiness.

(30:55):
It was kind of what I callhypno-coaching.
I was helping people withthings.
It wasn't therapy and I nevertried to pretend to be a
therapist, because that's not mystrength or it certainly wasn't
what I was certified to do,tend to be a therapist because
that's not my strength or itcertainly wasn't what I was
certified to do.
But I used hypnosis as a way tohelp people calm down and relax
, to de-stress, and I had somegreat tools I used.
It was a lot of fun I loveworking with people.

(31:16):
But I then branched out intodoing neurofeedback brain
training and I found a reallygood tool from some other people
that I had worked with beforeand what it did essentially is
using neurofeedback to helptrain the brain to become more
resilient.
And what was so cool about thistool?
It didn't require a lot ofneurofeedback.

(31:37):
Stuff requires an interactive.
You know, you do this and itmoves a thing, and then you this
is none of that.
It was basically put on theheadphones Let me put the
sensors on your scalp and thesoftware and your brain
interacted and I just backedaway.
And the thing that was niceabout it is it let the brain

(32:00):
react and do things on its ownin its own time.
So it wasn't like I was forcingmore alpha in the temporal area
and more of this in theoccipital and all that.
It was the brain working withsignals from the software that
was tracking what the brainworking with signals from the
software that was tracking whatthe brain was doing.
Complicated sounding, but itwas really quite simple.
I did it on myself and what Ifound is that I was more

(32:23):
resilient.
I could be in a situation whereI'm in traffic and everybody
has an experience with thisunless you don't drive is that
you're caught in a traffic jam,somebody cuts you off.
You have a natural reaction tobe angry, whatever.
I found that my brain wouldn'tgo there.
It was like a memory that saidyou need to be angry and my
brain was not allowing that tohappen.

(32:44):
So the upshot of all this andwhy I'm telling this is because
it taught my brain resiliency,recovery time.
So I don't think there's anyway we're ever going to get rid
of overstimulation and overwhelmfor highly sensitive people.
But the important thing is howquickly do you bounce back, how

(33:04):
do you get back to your normalhomeostatic state that you're
feeling at peace and calm, andso forth?
And so there's lots of ways ofdoing it.
You know there are braintraining techniques.
They don't have to be used witha software or electronics or
anything like that Meditation,breathing exercises I was just
thinking about Andrew Wells, Ithink it's 478 or whatever is

(33:26):
the countdown?
Simple, easy, portable.
You carry it with youeverywhere you go.
Learn a meditation technique.
And there's nature.
Go out and walk in nature, go,take an hour walk, be by
yourself, let yourself calm down, and as you're doing that,
you're also training your brain.
This is how to get back towhere we were, this is how we

(33:47):
want to get back, and over timeyou start building the
resiliency.
And so I think that's the keyword we're not going to get rid
of overwhelm, we're not going toget rid of overstimulation, but
how do we deal with it?
When we get there, how longdoes it take us to come back?
And so that should be.
In my opinion, that should bethe kind of the emphasis that we
should be looking at.
And a million different ways toskin that cat, but the simplest

(34:11):
, easiest ones are learningthings like meditation,
breathing exercises and goingout in nature.
And there's benefits in goingout in nature, obviously, but
the Japanese do what they callforest bathing.
There's a Japanese term for it,I can't remember what it is,
but trees emit a certainchemical that we breathe in and

(34:33):
absorb when we're around them,and it does affect our state of
mind.
So it's not just being aroundgreen stuff, it's also about
being out, where nature'sinteracting with us as well.

April Snow (34:47):
Exactly Taking a more active role in the process.
I think a lot of times HSPsassume I'm just overwhelmed, I'm
stuck in this state, I can't doanything about it.
But, as you're saying, doingsomething about it.
Take yourself out on a walk inthe woods or at a park where you
can be around some trees, dosome mindful breathing and, as

(35:08):
you're saying, there's so manydifferent practices.
Find what works for you.

Yes, absolutely.

April Snow (35:13):
Every HSP is unique.
It's not a one size fits all.
That's the beauty, though, thatwe can lean into whatever makes
us feel more relaxed and helpsus recover because we are
resilient.
I always think about that.
Just think about all that weexperience and take in, and yet
we still keep going.

That's right, we're going to bounce back
anyway and I guess the thing ofit, the dread or stimulation, is
how long am I going to be down?

April Snow (35:37):
Right.

How am I going to ?
You know, and there's nothingwrong with taking the time you
need.
But the point is, if the ideais that you want to be able to
recover quickly, and forwardthinking into the idea that next
time I hit a stimulationoverwhelmed moment, maybe my
overstimulation won't be asgreat as it was before Right and

(35:58):
I can recover quickly.
So that's kind of the way Ilook at it.

April Snow (36:02):
Yeah, can I have a different experience?
Right, just as you did withanger when you're stuck in
traffic, we can have a differentexperience.
We can, I'm not sure, disarmthose alarm bells.

Yes, yes.

April Snow (36:14):
Yes, if we are taking care of ourselves.
Yeah, thank you for that.

It's always a good reminder to hear that we're
not stuck in the difficultparts of being sensitive, you
know, and I think that's what alot of highly sensitive,
especially what I consider thenewbies that are coming on board
.
I just found out about itno-transcript.

April Snow (36:59):
Before we realize this is a trait and it's just a
matter of making someadjustments.

Yes.

April Snow (37:06):
Yeah, that's it.
Well, I want to carve out sometime to talk about your books,
because you've written two booksfor highly sensitive men
Confessions of a Sensitive manand On being a Sensitive man and
you share with me that you'realso working on a novel, which
is very exciting.
Can you speak to what inspiredyou to do this?
I know you talked a little bitabout blogging, but what led you

(37:26):
to then think I need to writethese books?

Well, actually I think the preface to the first
book I wrote.
I think it was not an exactquote, but I wrote this book
from my older self to my youngerself, sharing my experience.
The first book was anexperiential book.
It was about my experiences ofbeing a highly sensitive man,
and I've had lots of men writeto me and say you know, you

(37:55):
captured exactly what I wasfeeling or what I was doing, and
that's a thing that I thinkthere's great value in writing
these experiential books,because there's great books out
there about being highlysensitive.
There's great books out thereabout being highly sensitive men
, and very often they're comefrom a psychological point of

(38:16):
view, which is important that weunderstand that part of it.
But it's also nice to have sortof a layman like myself come in
and write a book about.
This was my life, this is whatit was like, and so the
inspiration essentially was Iwanted to put all that
information that I hadaccumulated and, in using some
of the blog articles andreworking them for the book, to

(38:37):
be able to share thoseexperience with other men, and I
think that's very important.
That's a sort of reaching out,offering up some community to
these men that they may neverhave had before in their lives.
The second book was writtenbasically as okay, here's all
the things I learned, right, andI put it in a book on being a

(38:57):
sensitive man and how to copeand deal with the challenges and
so forth that I had experiencedthroughout the course of my
life.
So one is sort of telling youokay, this is how I got here and
this is the other one is how Idealt with getting there.
So that was a great experienceand I loved writing those books.
It was just wonderful.

April Snow (39:15):
It's like you're being that template that you
needed.

Absolutely, absolutely.

April Snow (39:20):
Yeah, and we need that lived experience to show up
on the page.
It's what we do need to learnabout the traits we can
understand and we can justifyliving differently.
However, we also need to hearthe stories and have a sense of
community on the page.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely, and that's kind of
the science is very important.
It is for somebody like me.
I really love to read the booksthat Elaine's done and some of
the other people thepsychologists that are out there
and always follow the studiesthat they're doing out of
Michael Pluess and others whoare working on doing this

(39:58):
research.
But you're right, the othermetaphor I used in the beginning
of the book was it's the oldguy sitting around the campfire
sharing stories with the youngerpeople, right?
And that's kind of how I lookedat the book from a metaphorical
standpoint too.

April Snow (40:14):
And what a gift to have those stories.
We need those.

Yes, yes, right, I agree.

April Snow (40:19):
Yeah, and I'm curious if you're open to
sharing.
What is this next novel about?
You're veering into the worldof fiction this time.

Well, I've kind of sat back and I thought I was
going to write another book onwhat we talked about earlier
defining masculinity, how can wemake masculinity more inclusive
and I may still write somethinglike that.
There's quite a few good booksabout that now that are coming
out.
Gives you the freedom to gowherever you want to go.

(40:51):
You're not restricted byscience or whatever.
You can just take off and driftaway and write what you want,
and this story idea has beenwith me for like, oh, 10 years.
I've been wanting to writesomething along this line and it
really is a hero's journeyabout a highly sensitive man,
although the book itself is notabout high sensitivity per se.

(41:14):
On a journey of self-discovery,he has some exciting events at
the beginning of the book thatgets him launched on this
journey where he just walks awayfrom a life that's disappointed
him and he goes on this journey.
And on this journey he meetsseven or eight wise women, and
these women become his muses andthey all teach him something

(41:37):
about himself, about thespiritual nature of life, and
he's confronted with andpresented with all these unique
ways of doing things, and it'spart of that evolution of his
growth.
The upthrust of all this is hebecomes his authentic self, he
learns how to be who he truly is, and it's been a.

(41:58):
I just finished the first draftabout a month and a half.
I'm starting the second draftnow.
It's been just this marvelous,wonderful experience of just
allowing it to flow out of meand I I'm just looking forward
to getting it published andgetting it out there.
I think it's a book for, couldbe for highly sensitive men, but

(42:21):
I think it's a book foreverybody.
There's something in there foreveryone, male, female and so
forth.

April Snow (42:26):
It's so relatable Just hearing this journey of you
know, finding yourself andbeing allowing yourself to be
inspired and kind of pull downthose walls and come back to
self.
I mean that's such an importantstory.

Yes.

April Snow (42:41):
And cherry on top that it happens to be someone
who's highly sensitive.

Exactly, and he's learning to come to grips with
that too, as he's going throughthat, you know, through his
journey, very similarexperiences to what I went
through.
Of course, that makes itrelatable for me.

April Snow (42:55):
I was wondering yeah .

Yeah, it is a little autobiographical.
I think the character is alittle bit like me, but I'm
trying to make him his ownperson and I'm just.
I'm looking forward to gettingthis out.
It's been so much fun writingit.

April Snow (43:10):
Oh, I bet.
I'm curious.
I know you started writingblogs after you discovered
sensitivity or the trait.
Were you always a writer, or isthis something that's later in
life?

A long time ago, when I first moved out to LA
back in the late seventies, Iwanted to be a screenwriter and
I had written screenplays andstuff like that Actually got an
agent in Hollywood.
I thought, oh, this is great,my career's taken off.
But I wrote a screenplay thatwas so uniquely different.

(43:42):
It was something that wouldhave been very difficult to make
and maybe a little bit ahead ofits time in terms of the
technology at the time, and Igot caught up in having a family
, living a life, working at work, to have to support the family
and I drifted away from writingscreenplays.
But it's always been a part ofme and I've always been told

(44:03):
Bill, you're a good writer, youshould write, and it was one of
those things.
I had to convince myself overthe years that I could do this
and it would be well received.
I've been very blessed that Ihad a lot of compliments about
the way the books were written.

April Snow (44:16):
Oh, absolutely.

So it's encouraged me.
So if you want to keep mewriting, folks, you've got to
give me some compliments andfeed the ego a little bit.

April Snow (44:25):
That's right, always love doing it.

Always love using words and that kind of thing.

April Snow (44:30):
It's such a great way of for me at least
processing.
It's a catharsis ofunderstanding myself but also
making sense of what I'mabsorbing from the rest of the
world also.
Yeah, I'm sure you don't have apublished date yet, but do you
have any sense of when this bookmight come out into the world
next year, in two years?

It's all.
You know.
The publishing industry is sodifferent now than it's ever
been.
They're very much moreselective about what they're
picking and things like that.
I had a friend tell me you know, I've written books about high
sensitivity.
And he says why don't you writesomething that's going to sell
at a mass level?
And I thought, wait a minute.
Just you know, there's a lot ofhighly sensitive people out

(45:10):
there, that's right.
But so I wanted to writesomething like this novel and
have a broader appeal but stillyield to those concepts that I
think are important to highlysensitive people and to people
generally.
So I'm hoping to have itwrapped up sometime first
quarter next year and hopefullyget it pitched to an agent and

(45:31):
see if I can't get somebody totake it on forward to a
publisher.

April Snow (45:35):
Beautiful.
Yeah, I mean what you'retelling.
The story is universal.
It will be especially importantto HSPs, but it will touch
everyone.
Everyone's been on that journeyof finding self and, yeah,
going on that journey it'simportant.

So, I hope some people, whenthey're reading, can vicariously
live through this and maybe setout on their own personal
journeys to find themselves.

April Snow (45:56):
Yeah, absolutely Well, bill.
If you could leave us with onemessage for HSPs, what would
that be?

Well, I always leave with one thing that I
always tell highly sensitivepeople.
First of all, let me just saythis it's all going to be okay.
It will all be okay, eventhough if you feel like you're
overwhelmed, it's too much tohandle.
It'll be okay, and the wayit'll be okay is what I call the
three E's.
First of all and mostimportantly, educate yourself.

(46:26):
Learn about the trait.
There is so much more stuffthat's out there now, published
and online, than there was evenjust six or seven years ago, and
it's growing kind ofexponentially.
So there's lots of books.
And just on the horizon here,the movie that Will Harper and
Tracy Cooper have releasedSensitive and Rising will

(46:48):
hopefully be out in distributionsoon, so be looking for that.
But they also had doneSensitive and so forth, so
there's a body of films that youcan look at as well, and one
more coming on the way.
But do educate yourself aboutthe trait, understand what it is
, because a lot of times you'redealing with just the chatter in
your head.
You don't realize that there'ssome normalcy to this as well.

(47:10):
Secondly, once you educateyourself, embrace the trait.
It took me 10 years to do it,but however long it takes you to
do it, get to a point where youcan wrap your arms around it
and embrace the trait and sayI'm okay being this person.
And once you've done that,finally, the final E is
evangelize.

(47:31):
We need to get out and letpeople know about the trait.
Final E is evangelize.
We need to get out and letpeople know about the trait.
We need to teach our youngpeople, we need to teach our
families, our co-workers.
We need to teach the worldabout it.
Whether you do it at aninternational level or whether
you do it at a community level,it doesn't matter.
Get out there and start lettingpeople know about it.
And when you do that, you'reowning the trait and you're

(47:53):
displaying the trait to peopleand you'll feel a lot more
confident about yourself whenyou do that.

April Snow (47:59):
Thank you for that.
I love that Three E's Educate,embrace, evangelize.
First learning about it foryourself, working on that
acceptance.
And I appreciate you saying letit take as long as it'll take.
It's a process of reframing andrelearning.
And then, yeah, share it withothers.
There could be other HSPs inyour life, or at the very least,
so people understand you andyou can show up how you need to.


April Snow (48:25):
Well, this has been a lovely conversation, as always
.
Thank you.
I always love connecting withyou.

And same here, April.

April Snow (48:32):
I always love talking to you and I really
appreciate you having me on Ofcourse, and I'll be sure to
share all your resources in theshow notes, your website, your
social media, your several books, and then also so grateful that
you offer an online men's group, and I'm wondering, before we
go, if you could just telllisteners a little bit about
what that looks like, youronline group.

Yeah, it's an international group and I don't
charge anything.
There's no paywall to get in.
I was very emphatic about doingthat.
Not that there's anything wrongwith people who do that, it's
just that I thought it wasreally important that men have
no reservations about joiningbecause of cost or anything like
that.
You can get connected with thatgroup on my website.

(49:12):
There is a tab, the HSP men'sgroup, and you register there.
Now we've evolved the group alittle bit.
It initially started out asjust one big group but it got to
the point where we're having 20, 30 people on.
It was not good for intimateconversations or that kind of
thing.
We still have what we call thebig tent meeting and that's
usually for people coming in totry it out and see if they like

(49:34):
it.
But what we've done is we'vemade smaller groups, pod groups
that are regional.
You know different places, soyou're in the same time zone.
It's easier to meet yourschedule and it's autonomous.
It's run by a facilitator,volunteer facilitator, and you
run the meeting the way you wantto run it.
But the point is that you getto meet people and talk and

(49:56):
build that community.
So there's two options thereand I encourage anybody that's
interested to reach out and getinvolved with it.

April Snow (50:04):
I love that the big tent group and then you can
connect with folks locally.
That's what Elaine always didin her retreats and gatherings
you get to break off andactually connect with people
locally.
It's so important.

Yeah, and I think it kind of works well for a lot
of HSPs who would rather have asmall, intimate group that have
a huge group where there's lotsof people and they may be a
little intimidated.

April Snow (50:26):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it can be easier to showup in a smaller group and it's
not like it.
Thanks so much for joining meand William for today's
conversation.
What I hope you'll take away isthat you're not doomed to feel
overwhelmed as an HSP.
Your sensitivity is a normaltrait, it's not a deficit, and

(50:50):
masculinity can include emotion,intuition, nurturing and
softness.
If you're a highly sensitiveman looking for community and
support, be sure to check outWilliam's online HSP men's group
and his books.
You can find more informationin the show notes or go to
thesensitivemancom.

(51:10):
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSB resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, TikTokand YouTube.

(51:31):
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}36: Embracing Your Sensitive Awareness

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

36: Embracing Your Sensitive Awareness

On Purpose with Jay Shetty