January 7, 2025 • 45 mins
What is possible when you feel deeply seen in your relationships? In this episode, I talk with Laura Deneen, LPC-MHSP and Lauren Jackson, LPC-MHSP about the benefits of supportive friendships and:
• The different roles friendships play in your life as an adult and identifying who is safe to bring into your inner world
• How to nurture friendships when you have limited bandwidth as an HSP
• Giving yourself permission to allow friendships, your needs, and your boundaries to change
• Checking in with yourself before, during and after socializing to ensure your relationships are supportive
Laura is the owner of Anchored Counseling Company in Brentwood, TN and Becoming Anchored Co. She loves being a therapist and supporting other therapists. Outside of the office, Laura enjoys spending time with her husband and baby girl, gardening, and playing with her dog Louie. Lauren is a licensed mental health therapist in Tennessee specializing in treating eating disorders at the outpatient level and the clinical director of Anchored Counseling Company supervising their staff and intern therapists. She loves working with life transitions, grief, developmental trauma and anxiety/OCD. When not working, Lauren loves spending time with her husband and almost 3 year old son, reading a good book and walking around Downtown Franklin on the weekends.
Keep in touch with Laura + Lauren:
• Website: https://becominganchoredco.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/becominganchoredco and https://www.instagram.com/anchoredcounselingco
Resources Mentioned:
• Anchored Counseling in Tennessee: https://anchoredcounselingco.com
• Becoming Anchored Podcast: https://becominganchoredco.com/pages/podcast
• Free Safe + Connected Masterclass: https://becominganchoredco.com/pages/connected
• Navigating Friendships Course: https://becominganchoredco.com/pages/friendship
• Highly Sensitive Person book by Dr. Elaine Aron: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780553062182 HSP Self-Test:
Thanks for listening! You can read the full show notes and sign up for my email list to get new episode announcements and other resources at:
https://www.sensitivestories.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura Deneen (00:00):
Lauren has really just been a soft place to land
for me and I'm going to cry justcheering about her.
But we've been through a lottogether and she's changed me
for the better.
Just a dear, dear friend andperson and human being.
I never feel rushed when I'mwith Lauren.
I always feel that she sees meand knows me, even when I
(00:20):
haven't been my best.
I can show up authenticallywith Lauren and I don't have to
apologize yes, we're both highlysensitive, which feels really
safe to each of us, and thenshe's a dreamer.
Lauren Jackson (00:32):
She's like the future is ours and I am like a
reflector, and it just fits sowell.
Something that I feel just sograteful for, that just feels
invaluable to me, is how muchI've learned from Laura to dream
.
Laura has just pulled somethingout of me that I didn't know
was there.
So thank you, laura, for that.
April Snow (01:00):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(01:22):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withLaura Deneen and Lauren Jackson
about feeling seen and supportedin your relationships, how to
know who is safe to bring intoyour inner world and who isn't,
and nurturing friendships whenyou have limited bandwidth as a
highly sensitive person.
Laura is the owner of AnchoredCounseling Company in Brentwood,
(01:44):
tennessee, and becomingAnchored Company.
She loves being a therapist andsupporting other therapists.
Outside of the office, lauraenjoys spending time with her
husband and baby girl, gardeningand playing with her dog Louie.
Lauren is a licensed mentalhealth therapist in Tennessee,
specializing in treating eatingdisorders at the outpatient
(02:04):
level, and the clinical directorof Anchored Counseling Company,
supervising their staff andintern therapists.
She loves working with lifetransitions, grief,
developmental trauma and anxietyOCD.
When not working, lauren lovesspending time with her husband
and almost three-year-old sonreading a good book and walking
around downtown Franklin on theweekends For more HSP resources
(02:29):
and to see behind-the-scenesvideo from the podcast.
Join me on Instagram, tiktok orYouTube at Sensitive Strengths
or sign up for my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
(02:49):
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Welcome, laura and Lauren.
(03:14):
I'm so happy to have you bothhere, our first duo on the
podcast.
I would love to start off byhearing your HSP discovery
stories.
So, laura, could you start offby telling us how and when you
realized that you're an HSP?
Laura Deneen (03:26):
I am trying to remember exactly how it came
about.
I had a phenomenal therapistwhen I first moved to Nashville.
I've had the privilege ofworking with a few different
providers in the Nashville areajust at different points in my
own journey from individualtherapy and some couples therapy
with my husband and I thinkthat I remember my first
(03:47):
therapist here in town justtalking about being a highly
sensitive individual herself andwe shared a lot in common and
our stories were similar in waysand, of course, different in
ways, but she was like, hey,there's actually this book that
you should read.
And then I remember, likewhenever a therapist has told me
(04:08):
to read a book, I like go andbuy it on Amazon that day and
read it, and of course itresonated so deeply with me I
think I have it on my bookshelfright here yeah, the highly
sensitive person.
And so I read that book.
And then I was like, oh mygoodness, this is me to a T.
And then, of course, I'm thetype of person that has to share
it with everyone that I loveand hold dear.
And so I have a twin brother,and he's actually an HSP as well
(04:30):
, and so I first told him aboutit and then I told Sean, my
partner, about it and had himread the book so that he could
better understand it.
And then I like took some testsonline and ever since then I've
known that I was an HSP and Ireally just identify with the
description of being an HSP.
I think there's like maybe oneor two, I think one of the 20.
(04:51):
So you know you're, I knowyou're more of the expert in
this area, but you can take justdifferent online quizzes and
there was like one or two thatdidn't fit for me, but pretty
much every other criteria didlike feels, emotions more
expansively, sees the beauty andthe hardship, and I mean
literally everything about anHSV.
I'm like check, check, check,check, check.
So I want to say that was maybefive or six years ago now and
(05:13):
it's been a sweet part of mystory just to be able to even
feel that the people that are inmy life know me better and know
how to support me better, andalso in my work with clients,
like identifying it more readily, has been cool too.
So yeah, over the past sixyears I feel I've really come
into my HSP-ness.
April Snow (05:30):
I love it, and this is the first time I've heard
someone say they have an HSPtwin, which is so exciting to
know.
You were just shared a wombwith a fellow HSP from the
beginning.
Isn't that so funny?
It's amazing.
Laura Deneen (05:42):
I am 30 seconds older than him and I never let
him forget it.
But anyway, I read this bookand I was his name's Lee, and he
wouldn't mind me sharing thison the show.
But I was like Lee, you have toread this because I know you
really well and I think thatthis fits you.
We were at my sister's collegegraduation a while ago when I
was first learning about an HSP,and the lights were really
(06:02):
bright and the sound was reallyloud and it was so funny because
we both like walked out of theroom and we were like, yep, this
is our HSP and not in astraight face way, but just like
this is a little too much forus, we need to like take a step
out, and so I think it's beenreally helpful to him as well.
Just to have that information.
It is a little funny, yeah,that we're both twins and we
both have that same trait.
April Snow (06:24):
Yeah, it's so interesting and I love that you
said that it doesn't have to bea negative, it's just more of a
matter of fact.
Sure, yeah, you just need tostep away from this stimulation.
It can be okay.
Yeah, right, and just knowingyourself and I had a similar
experience of, I have to telleveryone.
I remember I was a counselingtrainee at the time and everyone
in the office I was sharing theself-test with Dr Erin's
(06:46):
self-test and just, yeah,bringing as many HSPs in as I
could.
Laura Deneen (06:49):
I love it I know that's what it's like.
It's such a sweet, I think,quality about us you know and.
Lauren knows this about meWhenever I like find a new thing
in the therapy world or in thecounseling world, I'm like I
have to tell everyone about itolder in the counseling world
I'm like I have to tell everyoneabout it.
Exactly you want to share it.
April Snow (07:07):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
I love it, lauren, and I wantto hear from you as well.
When did you realize thatyou're also an HSP?
Lauren Jackson (07:13):
Yes, so I had never heard of this idea of like
a highly sensitive person, thatbeing kind of like a
personality trait, if you will,until I started working with
Laura.
Laura actually introduced me toit and so I started working with
Laura almost five years ago,and so it was five years ago
that, I think, I got the bookand I got on the website and I
(07:36):
took the little test and all ofthat and I was like, oh wow,
this fits me as well.
And so, yeah, it was when Istarted working at Anchored that
I discovered that I also, likeLaura, am highly sensitive
person.
And, yeah, I think one of theways that it's shown up just in
(08:07):
my life and in my story is thatit used to not be a good thing
and now it is a really goodthing in terms of like how I've
learned to really love andaccept that part of me and I
tell my clients it's like it'ssuch a superpower when we can
really hone it and when we canreally get to know our
sensitivities Because, like yousaid, april, it helps us know
(08:29):
ourselves, and how cool is thatthat we can know ourselves
better.
April Snow (08:31):
So, yeah, so five years ago.
I love it.
You're both kind of on asimilar timeline and it's so
sweet when a friend introducesit to you and you can kind of
share in that.
And, lauren, I appreciate yousaying that it is a journey
going from a burden to ablessing, when you're a highly
sensitive person and havingallies, having community around
(08:52):
it, really makes a bigdifference.
I'm not alone.
There's nothing wrong with me.
This is just a personalitytrait, right?
This is a temperament trait.
It doesn't have to be anegative.
Yeah, I'd love to hear a littlebit more about the clients you
serve.
You mentioned that, how this isquite a good fit, and I was
looking at your website.
I was like, oh yeah, this, Ibet they do work with a lot of
HSPs.
Could you just share a littlebit more about the people that
you work with in your grouppractice?
Lauren Jackson (09:14):
Yeah, so we work a lot with clients with eating
disorders, disordered eating,body image concerns kind of in
that outpatient setting, at thatoutpatient level of care.
And then with that we alsocollaborate with dietitians and
doctors and that kind of thing,particularly with clients with
eating disorders.
And so we find that clients whopresent with maybe more of a
(09:39):
restrictive type of relationshipwith food tend to show up
strongly with maybe that highlysensitiveness.
And that's not the case foreveryone, certainly.
So I don't want toovergeneralize it.
You know it's a pattern we seefor sure.
So yeah, we work a lot witheating disorders.
We see all kinds of otherthings too Grief, anxiety,
depression, ocd, work a lot withOCD.
(10:00):
That population can tend to behighly sensitive as well.
You see a lot of like lifetransition that kind of thing.
So yeah, there's somethinginteresting between the maybe
correlation, if you will,between eating disorders and the
highly sensitive personality.
April Snow (10:16):
And.
Lauren Jackson (10:16):
I know that's part of my story and when I
reflect back on some differentseasons in my life, I can see
where my highly sensitive partwas at play and it wasn't maybe
serving me very well or I didn'tknow that it was trying to
serve me or whatever.
And that was part of kind of myjourney through an eating
(10:37):
disorder and then in recoveryand out of recovery and then
coming back to myself and so,anyways, I kind of got on a
tangent there.
But I don't know, Laura, ifyou'd add anything else about
the clients that we see.
Laura Deneen (10:47):
Yeah, I mean absolutely, and I think, april,
you probably see this as welland I know we talked about this
when you were on our show butreally just that, like not
knowing what to do with thatemotion expression and that
coming out sideways throughthese behaviors, whether it's
compulsions and OCD or whetherit's an eating disorder or other
(11:08):
type of behaviors that theclient maybe doesn't align with
or doesn't align with theirvalue system, and what I share
with clients yeah, most of ourclients that we see here feel
deeply, and so I'll use my handsa lot in session, lauren, as
it's about me.
But, like again, and we cantend to compare, so this is not
meant to be a comparative kindof way of explaining this but I
think the general populationfeels like this right, and then
(11:31):
HSPs feel to this extent, and soa lot of times when our clients
come to us, they've been shamedor criticized or they just
don't know how to regulate anemotion or feel an emotion in a
way that helps them figure outwhat the underlying need is, and
so that's where we come intoplay and we're like, hey, this
is beautiful and let's practicefeeling in a way that serves you
(11:54):
, where you're notself-abandoning, like Lauren
talked about.
So we see that self-abandonmentshow up in so many different
fashions and shapes and forms inthe practice.
But honoring this right, thisemotionality that's there, it's
like how can we honor that andname it and celebrate it, even
(12:15):
as this beautiful part of you?
Like, when I get home, laurenknows my dog, it's Louie and I
just love my dog and I, ofcourse, love my baby too.
But he'll lick my face and I'mlike I'm so happy to see you and
my husband's like, okay, yeah,there's Louie, and I just love
my dog and I, of course, love mybaby too.
But he'll lick my face and I'mlike I'm so happy to see you and
my husband's like, okay, yeah,there's Louie, and it's just
different, like it's not that hedoesn't love the dog, but just
(12:36):
the depth of the love that Ifeel for this animal and for my
baby too, or just like deeper, Ithink, and Sean's a great
person, but it just is adifferent, you know, way of
feeling, I guess.
April Snow (12:45):
So it really is.
When you feel so intensely,you're highlighting, it can be
really beautiful and there's alot of passion, a lot of love,
excitement.
But then the flip side is alsotrue.
And what do we do with thoseemotions, especially if we don't
have any tools, we don't haveany supports, and so, yeah, it
comes out in that, thoserestrictions.
I see that a lot with whetherit's an eating disorder, it's
(13:06):
obsessions, it's severe anxiety,all those manifestations where
you just don't know what to dowith it, especially if they're
even if you have other HSPs inyour life, they may not know
what to do either, and it has togo somewhere.
Yeah, so appreciate you alldoing the work that you do and
helping HSPs find a path to justcelebrate themselves, as you
(13:29):
said, and know that this isn't.
I think we start to think thatthis is it for us.
We're stuck in these modes ofbeing, and it's not true.
There can actually be positiveexperiences in HSP.
You're not doomed to beconstantly overwhelmed, anxious
in these states of mind.
Laura Deneen (13:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
April Snow (13:47):
Yeah, so thank you for sharing that.
I think it's important tohighlight these different
experiences, and it's great tohear about the work that you all
are doing in Tennessee.
I am curious to hear a littlebit more about when you two meet
.
How did you become friends?
Laura Deneen (13:58):
if you're open to sharing, yeah, so Lauren started
with me almost, yeah, yourworkiversary, as we call it here
, is going on five years.
She has grown with me and Ihave shared this on our podcast.
But I have really done a lot ofmy own work owning anchored and
(14:20):
my own mental health journey,having employees and all the
things and Lauren has reallyjust been a soft place to land
for me and I'm gonna cry justcheering about her, but she is
such a safe place to land, asoft place to land.
She's been through so much withme and so we are colleagues and
friends first and foremost.
(14:41):
But I just I cherish myrelationship with Lauren and I
think there's a safety and atrust there, just having been
through some really painful,hard experiences together and
also some really joyfulexperiences together.
One of the things that I tellany new staff member that joins
Anchored is that I feel like Ican take a deep breath around
(15:02):
Lauren, is that I feel like Ican take a deep breath around
Lauren and that's been such agift to me.
And so, yeah, I've seen Laurenshow up with integrity and
character in so many differentsituations.
You know we have babies thatare around the same age and love
to play together and Laurensupervises the team and they
just really, I mean it's such ablessing to be able to impart
(15:24):
her wisdom and gentle guidanceonto them.
So there's lots I could sayabout Lauren, but yeah, I mean
we've been through a lottogether and I think time is a
good tell too.
I mean I feel like we know eachother really well.
We have a lot of in common andsimilarities and we also have
our differences.
So, yeah, lauren's just aphenomenal person and therapist
(15:46):
and leader.
She's changed me for the better, knowing her.
So this is my ode to Lauren.
But yeah, I mean just a dear,dear friend and person and human
being.
So yeah.
(16:16):
So beautiful.
I love how you said you cantake a deep breath around her.
Lauren is a soft place.
So, yeah, therapist here beyondme, so I guess our third.
But yeah, we've grown a lot,we've learned a lot together,
we've been through hard timestogether and I think that that
really is a testament tosomeone's character and
integrity, and Lauren shows upso well for people.
(16:38):
One of the things that I lovethe most about Lauren is I never
feel I can tend to have a loton my mind and with the business
like try to do all these things, and I never feel rushed when
I'm with Lauren.
I always feel that she sees meand knows me, even when I
haven't been my best, you know,like I can show up authentically
with Lauren and I don't have toapologize, and that's been
(16:58):
really a gift to me too.
And she's been really healingtoo, just in terms of how I run
the business over the past fewyears.
And one of the things that I'vecelebrated in her, too, is her
ability to challenge me when Ineed it, you know, and that's
been so beautiful and I thinkthat she's really stepped into
that and I'm grateful for it.
She tells me what she thinks inan honest, kind way, and I need
(17:22):
that because sometimes I canget on my little train track and
go 100 miles ahead and I needto like pause the train a little
bit.
So I think that we balance eachother out really well in that
regard and, yeah, just forevergrateful for her.
She's changed me for the better, there's a lot of love in our
(17:42):
relationship and yeah, it's sobeautiful.
April Snow (17:48):
And did you two know each other before you work
together?
No, we just found each other.
That's pretty phenomenal.
I mean, it sounds like you'vebuilt a really beautiful
friendship and, like you said,you have to be able to have
those hard conversations withpeople.
Yeah, it's so important youshared the positive experiences,
but also being in the trencheswith each other is so important.
(18:08):
Yeah, lauren, I'd love to giveyou a moment if you have
anything to add.
Lauren Jackson (18:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, laura reached out tome just wanting to bring on her
new hire and I was fresh out ofgrad school, fresh out of my
internship, and it felt likesuch a cool kind of opportunity
and moment, that like someonewas reaching out to me and
wanting to get to know me as apossible therapist, and so, yeah
, I mean we certainly startedout as like boss, employee,
(18:37):
whatever, but pretty quicklyjust became sweet friends and
colleagues and I mean, justechoing all the things Laura has
said, she's just been a trulyphenomenal leader and mentor to
me and I wouldn't be thetherapist I am today if it
weren't for Laura and just hersupervision and her believing in
(18:57):
me.
And I think what's so coolabout Laura and I and, I think,
why we work so well together, so, yes, we're both like that
highly sensitive piece whichfeels both really safe to each
of us.
And then, like Laura was saying, she's like a dreamer, she's
like the future is ours and I amlike a reflector.
And I think that just is, Ithink it just works, I think it
(19:21):
just fits so well and I thinksomething that I feel just so
grateful for, that just feelsinvaluable to me, is is how much
I've learned from Laura todream, because I don't that's
not my tendency.
I'm a nine on the Enneagram ifanybody is an Enneagram person
and so I tend to kind of fall tothe background a little bit.
(19:44):
And Laura has just pulledsomething out of me that I
didn't know was there, that isthis like leader and this like
assertive person, and I don'tknow.
So, yeah, I find myself likedreaming about things and
wanting these things for thefuture, and that's just been
really cool and a really coolthing to kind of see grow in
(20:04):
myself and so, anyways, so thankyou, laura, for that.
Our friendship is really sweetand our work relationship is
really sweet.
We work really well togetherand anchored.
It just means so much to bothof us and we just love what.
It just means so much to bothof us and we just love what we
do together so much, and so Ithink we're a good team.
April Snow (20:27):
Yeah, that really comes through.
I think I mentioned this beforewe started recording that you
can just tell the two of youwork so well together and just
seeing what you've been able tobuild and all the resources
you've created, and it's just atestament to what can be
possible in a safe relationship,right.
When you have that safe base,you get to unfurl those parts of
(20:48):
yourself that maybe couldn't beseen before, or you can be
influenced and inspired and,yeah, we need to complement each
other.
It's such a reminder that weneed all types of people in the
world, right, and what'spossible when we allow our
strengths to kind of collaborateand come through.
Yeah, it's clearly a beautifulfriendship.
And, laura, I had read a blog Ithink it was from you on the
(21:10):
Anchor Counseling site aboutfriendship being kind of like an
onion.
Laura Deneen (21:14):
Yep.
April Snow (21:14):
Which I just love that metaphor and that you can
have these different roles orlevels of friendship, and you
know clearly you two are I mean,you're colleagues.
You're also seem to be reallyclose friends or have built a
friendship over the years.
I wonder if you could speak tothat.
I think we put a lot ofpressure on ourselves that
friendships have to be at acertain level, or especially as
HSPs, because we want to go deep.
(21:35):
We want, you know, we just havecertain expectations of
ourselves.
We want, you know, we just havecertain expectations of
ourselves.
So I wonder if we could talk alittle bit more about what are
the different levels or roles offriendship?
Laura Deneen (21:45):
in our lives as adults.
Yeah, and I do want to name,you know, lauren and I do have
this like dual relationship kindof piece as well, and one thing
that I've tried to do and I'meven thinking of like, oh, my
goodness, when was the last timewe did this and we probably
need to name this again.
But, my goodness, when was thelast time we did this and we
probably need to name this again?
But, like you know, there isthis like, yes, I own the
company, lauren, you know, andso there is this power piece,
(22:06):
but we do talk, we try to talkopenly about it, and I do tell
Lauren, our capacity has changedas the company has grown, so,
in full transparency, and evenI've changed around that dual
relationship piece right, havingfuture employees, and so Lauren
and I I think Lauren does abeautiful job of, you know,
being so kind with the therapiston the team and also having
those boundaries in place, whichcan be hard, because I think
(22:27):
both of our nature is to like befriends with everyone.
You know what I mean.
So there's been growth, I think, for me and that as well, and I
tell Lauren that I'm gratefulthat she started when she did
before I did some of that growth, but yeah, I mean around the
pieces of the onion.
I think one of the things thatmaybe I falsely believed was
that I had to be best friendswith everyone that I came into
(22:51):
an encounter with, if you will,and one of the things that I've
learned over the past few yearsis that we can have different
levels of friendship anddifferent types of friends in
our lives, like people that knowus inside and out would be
maybe closer to like the core ofthe onion, versus maybe an
acquaintance that we get coffeewith every other month and then,
(23:14):
accordingly, we also buildsafety and trust based on the
layer of the onion, and so I'mnot going to necessarily share
with the person that I see everytwo or three months my deepest,
most vulnerable things, becausethey haven't earned that
privilege or that right or thataccess into my inner world,
whereas Lauren you know,speaking to her character and
(23:36):
integrity, she's been with mefive years and so it is safe for
me to vulnerably express myselfand then, if I need to
apologize or kind, of course,correct, I will with her.
But there's a felt safety,there's actual, like proven
safety there, where we have beenthrough those experiences
together where each of us hasbeen vulnerable and we've been
(23:57):
held through that withoutjudgment, without shame, et
cetera, et cetera.
So that's really the onion, andthere's lots of different ways
to think of it.
You can think of it like anonion and kind of peeling back
the layers.
You know, a tree is another kindof analogy I'll use around
friendships that maybe are moreseasonal and we're in fall right
now, as we're recording right.
So when you think about theleaves falling away and that
being okay and I know Lauren canspeak to this as well, but I
(24:20):
think a little bit less like yousaid, the pressure and
expectations for everyone to bethese core friends is just too
much and it's unrealistic forour lives right, when we're
working or have partners orchildren or whatever, and it's
not sustainable for all of ourfriends to be our core friends,
if you will.
So that's one of the reasons Iwrote that blog was just to kind
(24:44):
of give clients permission tothink about what, who fits into
what categories and why.
Why is that?
April Snow (24:52):
Yeah, I'll check in with you, lauren, if you wanted
to add anything to that piece,anything from your perspective
to that piece Anything from yourperspective.
Lauren Jackson (25:03):
I love that both of those kind of metaphors or
images, if you will, and theycertainly ring true for me and
my adulthood.
I think when we're younger,growing up, we can tend to
naturally just have a lot offriends and have a lot of people
around us in middle school,high school, that kind of thing,
and then maybe even college.
I think into adulthood it cansometimes feel a little bit
trickier to navigate friendships, especially if you're trying to
(25:24):
make new friends and maybe tryand keep old friends, and then
you also have all of the thingsthat go along with being an
adult and responsibilities andjobs, and so it can feel like a
hard thing to juggle, especiallyif there are unrealistic
expectations that we're holdingor internalizing around what our
friendships should look like orshould be like, or how many we
(25:47):
should have and how close weshould be with them.
And so you know, I think for mein adulthood, learning to as the
nine, as the peacekeeper, asthe people pleaser, the one who
doesn't want anybody to be mador upset I think something that
in adulthood that I've reallylearned and grown around in my
(26:07):
friendships is really learningand challenging myself
essentially not to feel like Ihave to keep the peace with
everybody especially friends,especially people who are
supposed to be safe, supposed tobe safe right, or the ones who
are really safe to me, that Ireally value being friends with
(26:28):
people, whatever layer they'reat and maybe whatever branch
they're at or whatever themetaphor you want to use that I
can show up authentically.
And me being authentic, I'velearned, means that I I can't
keep the peace all the time, andso that's felt really important
for me and how I've learned tokind of navigate friendships and
(26:51):
to adulthood.
Because the reality is is that,yeah, I do still have a couple
of really great friends fromcollege or high school and the
reality is is that they live indifferent States and we just
don't talk all the time.
And I know that we can catch up, you know, once a year and we
can pick up where we left off,and that's safe and that's fine
and there's not going to beresentment and nobody's going to
(27:13):
be mad at anybody, and thenallowing friendships where there
has been maybe a dysfunctionalkind of pattern, allowing them
to run their course and maybenaturally end what they've
needed to.
Laura Deneen (27:26):
Yeah.
April Snow (27:27):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean there is that naturalkind of transition from maybe in
the inner core to the outercore as we grow and our lives
change and we move away fromeach other.
That's okay, that makes sense.
But it sounds like only keepingthose people in your sphere
when it's authentic, when youcan both accept that.
This is the dynamic now, becauseI definitely had friendships
(27:48):
where there's a lot of pressureto be more than that, when it
just didn't make sense and it nolonger felt safe.
And then there's those timeswhere things just kind of
organically fall away.
But I'm wondering, there's justtimes where things just kind of
organically fall away.
But I'm wondering when do weneed to consciously move a
(28:08):
friend to the outer edges or outcompletely?
When do we know this is not asafe friendship anymore?
I can't be myself.
I'm just curious if you couldspeak to a little bit more about
what that looks like, because Ithink HSPs really struggle with
ending friendships and we playthat peacekeeper role a lot of
the times that you talked about,lauren, or that people pleaser,
and we don't end friendshipswhen we should.
Lauren Jackson (28:25):
So I'm just curious if you could speak to
that.
How do we know it's time, yeah?
Yeah, I think, or I wonder if itkind of comes back to we first
have to be really familiar withourselves or really aware of
ourselves and what we're feeling, what our opinions are, what
(28:46):
our thoughts are, what our needsare, what our experiences, what
safety to me means, because allof those things as an HSP are,
they're like, they're big, wefeel them.
I don't know.
I think it can feel maybesometimes scary to get close to
that, and so becoming reallyaware of what those things are
(29:09):
telling us and the informationwe can gather from the
experiences we're having, fromthose places of sensitivity, can
be really informative in whatneeds to happen in a friendship,
or how a friendship maybe needsto evolve, or a conversation
that needs to be had or whatnot.
(29:31):
Because, like I said, I thinkthat just can speak so much to
how each of us individuallyexperience safety and ultimately
, if a relationship maybedoesn't feel safe anymore, that
can be such an indication thatmaybe this friendship is no
longer serving me.
(29:52):
So I think, yeah, really Ithink a lot of it, or at least
maybe even for me comes down todo I know myself first.
Yeah.
April Snow (30:00):
That's such a good reminder.
Yeah, first know who you areand what safety is for you,
cause you're right, it'sdifferent for all of us.
What's safe for one person isnot for another, so that's such
a good reminder Like that's thefoundation where we need to
start from.
Laura Deneen (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, I would add to I think that's like
just such an excellent point,lauren, and knowing yourself
versus that foundation, right.
And then practically, if you'relistening today, I think it's
like okay, repeated violationsof trust, of boundaries,
especially for HSPs, right.
So as an HSP, I cannot committo and I have a little one at
(30:37):
home and all these things, right.
So I cannot commit to thingssocially during the week, maybe
more than like one thing a week,right.
And if I commit and realize Iactually need to go home because
my nervous system needs moreregulation and needs like a hot
bath there, needs to be like amutual respect there, and so
this is kind of a tangent.
(30:57):
But I think when we've done ourwork as HSPs so what I mean by
that is our therapeutic work andknowing yourself, well, you
respond well to another person'sboundaries, or that would be
ideal, right, it's like, yeah, Iactually have to go home, I
can't make it tonight.
And how the other person on theother side receives that and
(31:17):
then how they respond to that Ithink is really telling.
And so that person might evenbe an HSP and not know it, but
still respond poorly, right.
So I think that's likepractical, kind of just really
analyzing how other peoplerespond to our boundaries, how
other people communicate with us, their kind of perception and
(31:39):
even tolerance of emotion.
I think those are practicalthings that can help us figure
out is this person safe for me?
Is this person someone that Imaybe need to like spend a
little bit less time with?
I also love thinking about, likehow I feel before, during and
after.
We use this skill a lot.
(31:59):
Like I spent time with someone.
Am I dreading spending timewith someone?
And if I am, what's that about?
During, how do I feel?
Do I feel withdrawn?
Do I feel shut down?
Do I feel discouraged?
And then afterwards, how do Ifeel when I spend time with
Lauren?
I feel rejuvenated, I feeluplifted and, even if the
content of what we're talkingabout is hard, there is a sense
of like we are in this togetherand we're gonna figure this out.
(32:22):
I feel encouraged, I feelequipped, versus if I'm, maybe,
with a friend that doesn'treally truly see me or hear me
or understand me, I maybe feelmore discouraged or disheartened
or criticize, whatever it mightbe, and those check-ins, like
Lauren was talking about withyourself, I think, can be really
helpful.
So how do I feel beforespending time with this person,
(32:44):
how do I feel during and how doI feel afterwards?
And being intentional aboutnaming that for ourselves, with
our friends, can be reallyfruitful.
April Snow (32:54):
Yeah, I appreciate that it can be as simple as a
quick check-in.
Let me take a baseline beforeand then.
How am I doing after?
And then, even before, do Ifeel depleted?
Do I feel misunderstood?
Do I feel dismissed?
So, knowing yourself, but thenseeing how those friendships are
impacting that base, it's soimportant then to really listen
(33:16):
to that and trust it.
Yeah, I'm curious to hear.
So once we start to do thatwork of reflecting who am I,
what do I need in friendship?
So once we start to do thatwork of reflecting who am I,
what do I need in friendship?
But then, once we find thosepeople that we do feel safe with
and we want to invest time with, how do we make space
energetically to nurture?
So I know you two, obviouslyyou can tell that you find time
for that, you prioritize it.
It seems like just in yourrelationship.
(33:36):
But how can we do that as HSPswhen we have limited bandwidth?
Laura Deneen (33:41):
That's a good question, I know it's a big one.
I'm like I don't know, but takeit day by day yeah, I mean truly
, that's the first thing thatcame to mind is taking it day by
day, right, so a dreamer andplanner, like where I can want
to tend to plan out, like I'malready thinking like what am I
going to do in 2025?
(34:02):
It's just how I'm wired and Ithink this idea of coming home
to yourself is really just thatmindfulness of what is my
capacity today.
You know, we took our littlegirl to like a little petting
zoo on Saturday and Sunday.
I found like I just reallywanted to like sleep and take a
nap and like do nothing and siton my couch, right, because I
was a little bit depleted and itwas so much fun.
But I think it's recognizingwhat the need is and then
(34:25):
honoring it, like we've beentalking about on this show, and
I do think some of that we can'tnecessarily predict, because
life happens, right, griefhappens, unexpected things are
thrown our way, and how we dealwith that, I think is really
important.
So I think that takesmindfulness, it takes intention,
especially as HSPs, if ourcapacity when we're paying
(34:46):
attention might not be as big assomeone else's.
April Snow (34:49):
Yeah, it's so true that we have to have those
counterbalances and there has tobe room for things to shift.
You might be excited to go tothe petting zoo or to this event
or this social gathering, butthen you have to have a balance.
The next day or the next weekand some days you might be
excited about something, butthen you just don't have the
energy, and so needing to shipthings and make space for it
(35:10):
yeah, I'm curious to hear,Lauren, your thoughts on this as
well.
Lauren Jackson (35:13):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's such a.
That's like the question.
I mean, yeah, day by day, Ithink again, do I know myself?
Do I know what my capacity is?
Have I taken that inventory?
Have I checked in with myself?
And can I give myself permissionto, maybe, when I have made
(35:33):
plans, if I get to it and Ican't do it or I don't have
capacity at the time, to put myhand up and say, hey, I can't
make it or these plans aren'tgoing to work for me today, and
learning how to have thoseboundaries, because I think
another thing that can be hardfor the highly sensitive person
is maybe the fear of, like,setting a boundary and how
(35:55):
somebody else is going to reactor respond.
And again, that can speak tolike the safety and the
relationship like Laura wasmentioning, and so that can
speak to like the safety and therelationship like Laura was
mentioning.
And so I think that's some ofthe work that you know we get to
do.
Maybe, whether you're HSP ornot, it's like learning those
good boundaries and with selfand with others.
But, yeah, the bandwidth piecehas tough, you know, cause we're
(36:17):
all different and we all havedifferent levels of capacity,
and so it's just being reallygood at knowing what yours is
and honoring that.
I think that's the key there is.
Just can I honor myself firstand that's okay, and like having
permission to do that.
It's important.
Laura Deneen (36:36):
Yeah, because when we think about like health
right and how other people, Iknow that like we're all so
unique, but if I cancel onsomeone, or if someone cancels
on me, my hope is that myresponse is like oh my gosh, I
totally understand, yes, andlike would love to see you, like
, please go take care ofyourself.
And I think we take it as we gethealthier and grow.
(36:56):
It's less personal, right,versus like maybe before we do
therapy, and it feels morepersonal or so deeply attached
to our self-worth.
We see those boundaries thatLauren's talking about as like
you know, a healthy thing and wecan respond in ways that are
healthy and supportive to thefriendship, versus going to a
(37:18):
place in our minds like theydon't want to spend time with me
or they don't like me, likemaybe it's not even about us,
maybe they just really just needtime, and I think that takes
effort to get there.
Especially if we are moresensitive, we can be like oh,
you know, we haven't done ourwork, maybe feel some feelings
about that, and that's okay.
But I think how people respondto that is really telling as
(37:39):
well.
April Snow (37:40):
Absolutely is, and there's safety in that if
someone can hear and respectyour boundary.
And no, it's not personal, it'sjust there's a lot of pieces in
our lives that need to fittogether and sometimes we need
to make shifts to keep ourselvesafloat right, to keep things
sustainable.
Yeah, there's a need for that.
So I want to end ourconversation today with just
(38:02):
asking you each what's a messageyou could leave for hsps who
are wanting to create deeperconnections in their lives I
mean, lauren, do you have athought?
Lauren Jackson (38:13):
well, anything.
The first thing that comes tomind and I kind of said this at
the beginning, so so I'll justrepeat it your sensitivity is
good and, if you allow it, canreally help you and can really
serve you in a lot of differentways.
Just, you know, stay present inyour life, to stay connected
(38:36):
with people around you, to stayaware of what's going on for you
.
So, yeah, your sensitivity is agood thing and you can use the
information that yoursensitivities are giving you to
inform you of what you need.
April Snow (38:55):
Yeah, thank you for that.
It's true, we get so much inputfrom being more perceptive,
intuitive, emotional.
We can really use that to knowwhat you need, who's safe for
you, where you can show up orwhere you pull back.
It's such a gift.
Thank you for that reminder.
Laura Deneen (39:13):
Yeah, I think, just tagging along with what
Lauren said, I think just honorthat word honoring came up a few
times in today's episode.
Just, you know, I can honorthis trait about myself and you
know, maybe just even givingyourself time to figure out what
your bandwidth is, what yourcapacity is, and also giving
(39:34):
yourself permission for it tochange.
You know, I know, sincebecoming a mom, my bandwidth has
changed and instead ofcriticizing that or shaming
myself for that, I canacknowledge it and figure out
what I need, like Lauren wastalking about.
But, yeah, the highly sensitivepeople, I mean, I know I'm a
little bit biased, but I thinkthat we're a gift to this world
and I, yeah, I think that foranyone listening, if you're new
(39:57):
to figuring out what a highlysensitive person is, it's just
like it's such a cool, amazingthing.
So, yeah, thanks, april.
April Snow (40:05):
Yeah, thank you both .
I really appreciate thatreminder that we have permission
to change whatever it is thatyou're focusing on.
You can change the people, thesituation, how you see yourself,
and we don't have to stay stuckright.
There's a lot of opportunity.
As sensitive people to, I mean,we feel so deeply.
It's such a gift.
(40:25):
You get to feel all thepositive emotions too let's not
forget that and we can reallylean in and just look what's
possible with connection, beingin friendship, in community with
someone.
It's so rich and rewarding andyou two are a clear example of
that, of what's possible, and Ifelt that in my own life with
people where it's such a gift,and I just appreciate you both
(40:47):
being on the podcast today, so Iwill be.
Yeah, this is lovely.
I loved hearing both of yourstories and just kind of getting
a glimpse into yourrelationship was really
beautiful, so I thank you forthat.
Laura Deneen (40:59):
Thank you.
This is the first time we'vebeen asked, as a duo, to be on a
podcast.
Oh, really, yes, we were soexcited.
Thank you, oh, I love that.
April Snow (41:09):
Yeah, just think of you just as a beautiful example
of friendship and I was like, oh, I have to have them both on at
the same time.
Yeah, so I'll be sure to shareall the amazing resources that
you both have your AnchoredCounseling site for folks who
are in Tennessee are looking forsupport.
Also, your Becoming Anchoredpodcast, your courses, your
social media.
There's so many beautifulresources there and I saw that
(41:30):
you also have a couple greatcourses on friendship, on
boundaries relationships.
Could you just tell a littlebit more to listeners about the
resources there, maybe aboutyour podcast or the other
resources that you have there onBecoming Anchored?
Laura Deneen (41:42):
Yeah, so I know that we had you on our podcast
about a month ago, so that's theBecoming Anchored podcast, like
you shared.
Lauren and I are co-hosts forthat, so sometimes I host,
sometimes Lauren does, sometimeswe do it together.
But really the BecomingAnchored podcast was actually
Lauren's idea and it's been sucha fun, rewarding avenue for us
to spend time with people andmeet people across the country
(42:05):
like yourself that we justreally look up to and respect
and admire.
So it's been just anotheroutlet for us as therapists to
do something different thandirect client care, and I think
that just enriches our work tolike learn from other people.
And then we have a blog on theBecoming Anchored site.
We also do have some likeproducts we talk about like
being anchored in hope, so wecan be anchored in lots of
(42:27):
different things and just withthe nature of our work as
therapists, I think a lot oftimes people can feel that
they've lost hope and then, yeah, we're building out the courses
.
Lauren might do one, actually,in the new year, so we're
building out just all thecourses I've been working on,
you know, teaching therapistsabout how to treat body image
and perfectionism and all thethings.
So that's going to continue togrow.
(42:47):
But for now, we do have thatcourse on friendship that I did
and I think there's just a kindof a need for, hey, like this is
something I wish I had had 10years ago, and the hope here is
to that.
It's a little bit, you know.
I know therapy can be quitecostly and so it's just another
avenue to provide support toclients.
April Snow (43:05):
So, yeah, I love it.
Yeah, I mean there's so manygreat resources for folks that
aren't in Tennessee that want towork with you in different ways
, and I love that messageanchored and hope that's really
beautiful.
Laura Deneen (43:15):
Yeah Well, thank you.
April Snow (43:17):
Yeah, Thank you both and yeah, I look forward to
connecting again soon.
Thank you so much for joiningme, Laura and Lauren, for
today's conversation.
What I hope you're taking awayis friendships really are about
(43:38):
quality time, not quantity.
It's okay to be selective aboutwho you invite into your
personal space, your innercircle, and to change your mind
if someone doesn't feel safeanymore.
For more support in developingstronger friendships where you
feel seen and connected, headover to becominganchoredcocom,
where you'll find Laura andLauren's podcast, their course
(44:01):
on navigating friendships and alot of other resources.
Links are in the show notes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind the scenes content andmore HSB resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
(44:23):
Strengths on Instagram, TikTokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
Lauren has really just been a soft place to land
for me and I'm going to cry justcheering about her.
But we've been through a lottogether and she's changed me
for the better.
Just a dear, dear friend andperson and human being.
I never feel rushed when I'mwith Lauren.
I always feel that she sees meand knows me, even when I
(00:20):
haven't been my best.
I can show up authenticallywith Lauren and I don't have to
apologize yes, we're both highlysensitive, which feels really
safe to each of us, and thenshe's a dreamer.
Lauren Jackson (00:32):
She's like the future is ours and I am like a
reflector, and it just fits sowell.
Something that I feel just sograteful for, that just feels
invaluable to me, is how muchI've learned from Laura to dream
.
Laura has just pulled somethingout of me that I didn't know
was there.
So thank you, laura, for that.
April Snow (01:00):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(01:22):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withLaura Deneen and Lauren Jackson
about feeling seen and supportedin your relationships, how to
know who is safe to bring intoyour inner world and who isn't,
and nurturing friendships whenyou have limited bandwidth as a
highly sensitive person.
Laura is the owner of AnchoredCounseling Company in Brentwood,
(01:44):
tennessee, and becomingAnchored Company.
She loves being a therapist andsupporting other therapists.
Outside of the office, lauraenjoys spending time with her
husband and baby girl, gardeningand playing with her dog Louie.
Lauren is a licensed mentalhealth therapist in Tennessee,
specializing in treating eatingdisorders at the outpatient
(02:04):
level, and the clinical directorof Anchored Counseling Company,
supervising their staff andintern therapists.
She loves working with lifetransitions, grief,
developmental trauma and anxietyOCD.
When not working, lauren lovesspending time with her husband
and almost three-year-old sonreading a good book and walking
around downtown Franklin on theweekends For more HSP resources
(02:29):
and to see behind-the-scenesvideo from the podcast.
Join me on Instagram, tiktok orYouTube at Sensitive Strengths
or sign up for my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
(02:49):
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Welcome, laura and Lauren.
(03:14):
I'm so happy to have you bothhere, our first duo on the
podcast.
I would love to start off byhearing your HSP discovery
stories.
So, laura, could you start offby telling us how and when you
realized that you're an HSP?
Laura Deneen (03:26):
I am trying to remember exactly how it came
about.
I had a phenomenal therapistwhen I first moved to Nashville.
I've had the privilege ofworking with a few different
providers in the Nashville areajust at different points in my
own journey from individualtherapy and some couples therapy
with my husband and I thinkthat I remember my first
(03:47):
therapist here in town justtalking about being a highly
sensitive individual herself andwe shared a lot in common and
our stories were similar in waysand, of course, different in
ways, but she was like, hey,there's actually this book that
you should read.
And then I remember, likewhenever a therapist has told me
(04:08):
to read a book, I like go andbuy it on Amazon that day and
read it, and of course itresonated so deeply with me I
think I have it on my bookshelfright here yeah, the highly
sensitive person.
And so I read that book.
And then I was like, oh mygoodness, this is me to a T.
And then, of course, I'm thetype of person that has to share
it with everyone that I loveand hold dear.
And so I have a twin brother,and he's actually an HSP as well
(04:30):
, and so I first told him aboutit and then I told Sean, my
partner, about it and had himread the book so that he could
better understand it.
And then I like took some testsonline and ever since then I've
known that I was an HSP and Ireally just identify with the
description of being an HSP.
I think there's like maybe oneor two, I think one of the 20.
(04:51):
So you know you're, I knowyou're more of the expert in
this area, but you can take justdifferent online quizzes and
there was like one or two thatdidn't fit for me, but pretty
much every other criteria didlike feels, emotions more
expansively, sees the beauty andthe hardship, and I mean
literally everything about anHSV.
I'm like check, check, check,check, check.
So I want to say that was maybefive or six years ago now and
(05:13):
it's been a sweet part of mystory just to be able to even
feel that the people that are inmy life know me better and know
how to support me better, andalso in my work with clients,
like identifying it more readily, has been cool too.
So yeah, over the past sixyears I feel I've really come
into my HSP-ness.
April Snow (05:30):
I love it, and this is the first time I've heard
someone say they have an HSPtwin, which is so exciting to
know.
You were just shared a wombwith a fellow HSP from the
beginning.
Isn't that so funny?
It's amazing.
Laura Deneen (05:42):
I am 30 seconds older than him and I never let
him forget it.
But anyway, I read this bookand I was his name's Lee, and he
wouldn't mind me sharing thison the show.
But I was like Lee, you have toread this because I know you
really well and I think thatthis fits you.
We were at my sister's collegegraduation a while ago when I
was first learning about an HSP,and the lights were really
(06:02):
bright and the sound was reallyloud and it was so funny because
we both like walked out of theroom and we were like, yep, this
is our HSP and not in astraight face way, but just like
this is a little too much forus, we need to like take a step
out, and so I think it's beenreally helpful to him as well.
Just to have that information.
It is a little funny, yeah,that we're both twins and we
both have that same trait.
April Snow (06:24):
Yeah, it's so interesting and I love that you
said that it doesn't have to bea negative, it's just more of a
matter of fact.
Sure, yeah, you just need tostep away from this stimulation.
It can be okay.
Yeah, right, and just knowingyourself and I had a similar
experience of, I have to telleveryone.
I remember I was a counselingtrainee at the time and everyone
in the office I was sharing theself-test with Dr Erin's
(06:46):
self-test and just, yeah,bringing as many HSPs in as I
could.
Laura Deneen (06:49):
I love it I know that's what it's like.
It's such a sweet, I think,quality about us you know and.
Lauren knows this about meWhenever I like find a new thing
in the therapy world or in thecounseling world, I'm like I
have to tell everyone about itolder in the counseling world
I'm like I have to tell everyoneabout it.
Exactly you want to share it.
April Snow (07:07):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
I love it, lauren, and I wantto hear from you as well.
When did you realize thatyou're also an HSP?
Lauren Jackson (07:13):
Yes, so I had never heard of this idea of like
a highly sensitive person, thatbeing kind of like a
personality trait, if you will,until I started working with
Laura.
Laura actually introduced me toit and so I started working with
Laura almost five years ago,and so it was five years ago
that, I think, I got the bookand I got on the website and I
(07:36):
took the little test and all ofthat and I was like, oh wow,
this fits me as well.
And so, yeah, it was when Istarted working at Anchored that
I discovered that I also, likeLaura, am highly sensitive
person.
And, yeah, I think one of theways that it's shown up just in
(08:07):
my life and in my story is thatit used to not be a good thing
and now it is a really goodthing in terms of like how I've
learned to really love andaccept that part of me and I
tell my clients it's like it'ssuch a superpower when we can
really hone it and when we canreally get to know our
sensitivities Because, like yousaid, april, it helps us know
(08:29):
ourselves, and how cool is thatthat we can know ourselves
better.
April Snow (08:31):
So, yeah, so five years ago.
I love it.
You're both kind of on asimilar timeline and it's so
sweet when a friend introducesit to you and you can kind of
share in that.
And, lauren, I appreciate yousaying that it is a journey
going from a burden to ablessing, when you're a highly
sensitive person and havingallies, having community around
(08:52):
it, really makes a bigdifference.
I'm not alone.
There's nothing wrong with me.
This is just a personalitytrait, right?
This is a temperament trait.
It doesn't have to be anegative.
Yeah, I'd love to hear a littlebit more about the clients you
serve.
You mentioned that, how this isquite a good fit, and I was
looking at your website.
I was like, oh yeah, this, Ibet they do work with a lot of
HSPs.
Could you just share a littlebit more about the people that
you work with in your grouppractice?
Lauren Jackson (09:14):
Yeah, so we work a lot with clients with eating
disorders, disordered eating,body image concerns kind of in
that outpatient setting, at thatoutpatient level of care.
And then with that we alsocollaborate with dietitians and
doctors and that kind of thing,particularly with clients with
eating disorders.
And so we find that clients whopresent with maybe more of a
(09:39):
restrictive type of relationshipwith food tend to show up
strongly with maybe that highlysensitiveness.
And that's not the case foreveryone, certainly.
So I don't want toovergeneralize it.
You know it's a pattern we seefor sure.
So yeah, we work a lot witheating disorders.
We see all kinds of otherthings too Grief, anxiety,
depression, ocd, work a lot withOCD.
(10:00):
That population can tend to behighly sensitive as well.
You see a lot of like lifetransition that kind of thing.
So yeah, there's somethinginteresting between the maybe
correlation, if you will,between eating disorders and the
highly sensitive personality.
April Snow (10:16):
And.
Lauren Jackson (10:16):
I know that's part of my story and when I
reflect back on some differentseasons in my life, I can see
where my highly sensitive partwas at play and it wasn't maybe
serving me very well or I didn'tknow that it was trying to
serve me or whatever.
And that was part of kind of myjourney through an eating
(10:37):
disorder and then in recoveryand out of recovery and then
coming back to myself and so,anyways, I kind of got on a
tangent there.
But I don't know, Laura, ifyou'd add anything else about
the clients that we see.
Laura Deneen (10:47):
Yeah, I mean absolutely, and I think, april,
you probably see this as welland I know we talked about this
when you were on our show butreally just that, like not
knowing what to do with thatemotion expression and that
coming out sideways throughthese behaviors, whether it's
compulsions and OCD or whetherit's an eating disorder or other
(11:08):
type of behaviors that theclient maybe doesn't align with
or doesn't align with theirvalue system, and what I share
with clients yeah, most of ourclients that we see here feel
deeply, and so I'll use my handsa lot in session, lauren, as
it's about me.
But, like again, and we cantend to compare, so this is not
meant to be a comparative kindof way of explaining this but I
think the general populationfeels like this right, and then
(11:31):
HSPs feel to this extent, and soa lot of times when our clients
come to us, they've been shamedor criticized or they just
don't know how to regulate anemotion or feel an emotion in a
way that helps them figure outwhat the underlying need is, and
so that's where we come intoplay and we're like, hey, this
is beautiful and let's practicefeeling in a way that serves you
(11:54):
, where you're notself-abandoning, like Lauren
talked about.
So we see that self-abandonmentshow up in so many different
fashions and shapes and forms inthe practice.
But honoring this right, thisemotionality that's there, it's
like how can we honor that andname it and celebrate it, even
(12:15):
as this beautiful part of you?
Like, when I get home, laurenknows my dog, it's Louie and I
just love my dog and I, ofcourse, love my baby too.
But he'll lick my face and I'mlike I'm so happy to see you and
my husband's like, okay, yeah,there's Louie, and I just love
my dog and I, of course, love mybaby too.
But he'll lick my face and I'mlike I'm so happy to see you and
my husband's like, okay, yeah,there's Louie, and it's just
different, like it's not that hedoesn't love the dog, but just
(12:36):
the depth of the love that Ifeel for this animal and for my
baby too, or just like deeper, Ithink, and Sean's a great
person, but it just is adifferent, you know, way of
feeling, I guess.
April Snow (12:45):
So it really is.
When you feel so intensely,you're highlighting, it can be
really beautiful and there's alot of passion, a lot of love,
excitement.
But then the flip side is alsotrue.
And what do we do with thoseemotions, especially if we don't
have any tools, we don't haveany supports, and so, yeah, it
comes out in that, thoserestrictions.
I see that a lot with whetherit's an eating disorder, it's
(13:06):
obsessions, it's severe anxiety,all those manifestations where
you just don't know what to dowith it, especially if they're
even if you have other HSPs inyour life, they may not know
what to do either, and it has togo somewhere.
Yeah, so appreciate you alldoing the work that you do and
helping HSPs find a path to justcelebrate themselves, as you
(13:29):
said, and know that this isn't.
I think we start to think thatthis is it for us.
We're stuck in these modes ofbeing, and it's not true.
There can actually be positiveexperiences in HSP.
You're not doomed to beconstantly overwhelmed, anxious
in these states of mind.
Laura Deneen (13:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
April Snow (13:47):
Yeah, so thank you for sharing that.
I think it's important tohighlight these different
experiences, and it's great tohear about the work that you all
are doing in Tennessee.
I am curious to hear a littlebit more about when you two meet
.
How did you become friends?
Laura Deneen (13:58):
if you're open to sharing, yeah, so Lauren started
with me almost, yeah, yourworkiversary, as we call it here
, is going on five years.
She has grown with me and Ihave shared this on our podcast.
But I have really done a lot ofmy own work owning anchored and
(14:20):
my own mental health journey,having employees and all the
things and Lauren has reallyjust been a soft place to land
for me and I'm gonna cry justcheering about her, but she is
such a safe place to land, asoft place to land.
She's been through so much withme and so we are colleagues and
friends first and foremost.
(14:41):
But I just I cherish myrelationship with Lauren and I
think there's a safety and atrust there, just having been
through some really painful,hard experiences together and
also some really joyfulexperiences together.
One of the things that I tellany new staff member that joins
Anchored is that I feel like Ican take a deep breath around
(15:02):
Lauren, is that I feel like Ican take a deep breath around
Lauren and that's been such agift to me.
And so, yeah, I've seen Laurenshow up with integrity and
character in so many differentsituations.
You know we have babies thatare around the same age and love
to play together and Laurensupervises the team and they
just really, I mean it's such ablessing to be able to impart
(15:24):
her wisdom and gentle guidanceonto them.
So there's lots I could sayabout Lauren, but yeah, I mean
we've been through a lottogether and I think time is a
good tell too.
I mean I feel like we know eachother really well.
We have a lot of in common andsimilarities and we also have
our differences.
So, yeah, lauren's just aphenomenal person and therapist
(15:46):
and leader.
She's changed me for the better, knowing her.
So this is my ode to Lauren.
But yeah, I mean just a dear,dear friend and person and human
being.
So yeah.
(16:16):
So beautiful.
I love how you said you cantake a deep breath around her.
Lauren is a soft place.
So, yeah, therapist here beyondme, so I guess our third.
But yeah, we've grown a lot,we've learned a lot together,
we've been through hard timestogether and I think that that
really is a testament tosomeone's character and
integrity, and Lauren shows upso well for people.
(16:38):
One of the things that I lovethe most about Lauren is I never
feel I can tend to have a loton my mind and with the business
like try to do all these things, and I never feel rushed when
I'm with Lauren.
I always feel that she sees meand knows me, even when I
haven't been my best, you know,like I can show up authentically
with Lauren and I don't have toapologize, and that's been
(16:58):
really a gift to me too.
And she's been really healingtoo, just in terms of how I run
the business over the past fewyears.
And one of the things that I'vecelebrated in her, too, is her
ability to challenge me when Ineed it, you know, and that's
been so beautiful and I thinkthat she's really stepped into
that and I'm grateful for it.
She tells me what she thinks inan honest, kind way, and I need
(17:22):
that because sometimes I canget on my little train track and
go 100 miles ahead and I needto like pause the train a little
bit.
So I think that we balance eachother out really well in that
regard and, yeah, just forevergrateful for her.
She's changed me for the better, there's a lot of love in our
(17:42):
relationship and yeah, it's sobeautiful.
April Snow (17:48):
And did you two know each other before you work
together?
No, we just found each other.
That's pretty phenomenal.
I mean, it sounds like you'vebuilt a really beautiful
friendship and, like you said,you have to be able to have
those hard conversations withpeople.
Yeah, it's so important youshared the positive experiences,
but also being in the trencheswith each other is so important.
(18:08):
Yeah, lauren, I'd love to giveyou a moment if you have
anything to add.
Lauren Jackson (18:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, laura reached out tome just wanting to bring on her
new hire and I was fresh out ofgrad school, fresh out of my
internship, and it felt likesuch a cool kind of opportunity
and moment, that like someonewas reaching out to me and
wanting to get to know me as apossible therapist, and so, yeah
, I mean we certainly startedout as like boss, employee,
(18:37):
whatever, but pretty quicklyjust became sweet friends and
colleagues and I mean, justechoing all the things Laura has
said, she's just been a trulyphenomenal leader and mentor to
me and I wouldn't be thetherapist I am today if it
weren't for Laura and just hersupervision and her believing in
(18:57):
me.
And I think what's so coolabout Laura and I and, I think,
why we work so well together, so, yes, we're both like that
highly sensitive piece whichfeels both really safe to each
of us.
And then, like Laura was saying, she's like a dreamer, she's
like the future is ours and I amlike a reflector.
And I think that just is, Ithink it just works, I think it
(19:21):
just fits so well and I thinksomething that I feel just so
grateful for, that just feelsinvaluable to me, is is how much
I've learned from Laura todream, because I don't that's
not my tendency.
I'm a nine on the Enneagram ifanybody is an Enneagram person
and so I tend to kind of fall tothe background a little bit.
(19:44):
And Laura has just pulledsomething out of me that I
didn't know was there, that isthis like leader and this like
assertive person, and I don'tknow.
So, yeah, I find myself likedreaming about things and
wanting these things for thefuture, and that's just been
really cool and a really coolthing to kind of see grow in
(20:04):
myself and so, anyways, so thankyou, laura, for that.
Our friendship is really sweetand our work relationship is
really sweet.
We work really well togetherand anchored.
It just means so much to bothof us and we just love what.
It just means so much to bothof us and we just love what we
do together so much, and so Ithink we're a good team.
April Snow (20:27):
Yeah, that really comes through.
I think I mentioned this beforewe started recording that you
can just tell the two of youwork so well together and just
seeing what you've been able tobuild and all the resources
you've created, and it's just atestament to what can be
possible in a safe relationship,right.
When you have that safe base,you get to unfurl those parts of
(20:48):
yourself that maybe couldn't beseen before, or you can be
influenced and inspired and,yeah, we need to complement each
other.
It's such a reminder that weneed all types of people in the
world, right, and what'spossible when we allow our
strengths to kind of collaborateand come through.
Yeah, it's clearly a beautifulfriendship.
And, laura, I had read a blog Ithink it was from you on the
(21:10):
Anchor Counseling site aboutfriendship being kind of like an
onion.
Laura Deneen (21:14):
Yep.
April Snow (21:14):
Which I just love that metaphor and that you can
have these different roles orlevels of friendship, and you
know clearly you two are I mean,you're colleagues.
You're also seem to be reallyclose friends or have built a
friendship over the years.
I wonder if you could speak tothat.
I think we put a lot ofpressure on ourselves that
friendships have to be at acertain level, or especially as
HSPs, because we want to go deep.
(21:35):
We want, you know, we just havecertain expectations of
ourselves.
We want, you know, we just havecertain expectations of
ourselves.
So I wonder if we could talk alittle bit more about what are
the different levels or roles offriendship?
Laura Deneen (21:45):
in our lives as adults.
Yeah, and I do want to name,you know, lauren and I do have
this like dual relationship kindof piece as well, and one thing
that I've tried to do and I'meven thinking of like, oh, my
goodness, when was the last timewe did this and we probably
need to name this again.
But, my goodness, when was thelast time we did this and we
probably need to name this again?
But, like you know, there isthis like, yes, I own the
company, lauren, you know, andso there is this power piece,
(22:06):
but we do talk, we try to talkopenly about it, and I do tell
Lauren, our capacity has changedas the company has grown, so,
in full transparency, and evenI've changed around that dual
relationship piece right, havingfuture employees, and so Lauren
and I I think Lauren does abeautiful job of, you know,
being so kind with the therapiston the team and also having
those boundaries in place, whichcan be hard, because I think
(22:27):
both of our nature is to like befriends with everyone.
You know what I mean.
So there's been growth, I think, for me and that as well, and I
tell Lauren that I'm gratefulthat she started when she did
before I did some of that growth, but yeah, I mean around the
pieces of the onion.
I think one of the things thatmaybe I falsely believed was
that I had to be best friendswith everyone that I came into
(22:51):
an encounter with, if you will,and one of the things that I've
learned over the past few yearsis that we can have different
levels of friendship anddifferent types of friends in
our lives, like people that knowus inside and out would be
maybe closer to like the core ofthe onion, versus maybe an
acquaintance that we get coffeewith every other month and then,
(23:14):
accordingly, we also buildsafety and trust based on the
layer of the onion, and so I'mnot going to necessarily share
with the person that I see everytwo or three months my deepest,
most vulnerable things, becausethey haven't earned that
privilege or that right or thataccess into my inner world,
whereas Lauren you know,speaking to her character and
(23:36):
integrity, she's been with mefive years and so it is safe for
me to vulnerably express myselfand then, if I need to
apologize or kind, of course,correct, I will with her.
But there's a felt safety,there's actual, like proven
safety there, where we have beenthrough those experiences
together where each of us hasbeen vulnerable and we've been
(23:57):
held through that withoutjudgment, without shame, et
cetera, et cetera.
So that's really the onion, andthere's lots of different ways
to think of it.
You can think of it like anonion and kind of peeling back
the layers.
You know, a tree is another kindof analogy I'll use around
friendships that maybe are moreseasonal and we're in fall right
now, as we're recording right.
So when you think about theleaves falling away and that
being okay and I know Lauren canspeak to this as well, but I
(24:20):
think a little bit less like yousaid, the pressure and
expectations for everyone to bethese core friends is just too
much and it's unrealistic forour lives right, when we're
working or have partners orchildren or whatever, and it's
not sustainable for all of ourfriends to be our core friends,
if you will.
So that's one of the reasons Iwrote that blog was just to kind
(24:44):
of give clients permission tothink about what, who fits into
what categories and why.
Why is that?
April Snow (24:52):
Yeah, I'll check in with you, lauren, if you wanted
to add anything to that piece,anything from your perspective
to that piece Anything from yourperspective.
Lauren Jackson (25:03):
I love that both of those kind of metaphors or
images, if you will, and theycertainly ring true for me and
my adulthood.
I think when we're younger,growing up, we can tend to
naturally just have a lot offriends and have a lot of people
around us in middle school,high school, that kind of thing,
and then maybe even college.
I think into adulthood it cansometimes feel a little bit
trickier to navigate friendships, especially if you're trying to
(25:24):
make new friends and maybe tryand keep old friends, and then
you also have all of the thingsthat go along with being an
adult and responsibilities andjobs, and so it can feel like a
hard thing to juggle, especiallyif there are unrealistic
expectations that we're holdingor internalizing around what our
friendships should look like orshould be like, or how many we
(25:47):
should have and how close weshould be with them.
And so you know, I think for mein adulthood, learning to as the
nine, as the peacekeeper, asthe people pleaser, the one who
doesn't want anybody to be mador upset I think something that
in adulthood that I've reallylearned and grown around in my
(26:07):
friendships is really learningand challenging myself
essentially not to feel like Ihave to keep the peace with
everybody especially friends,especially people who are
supposed to be safe, supposed tobe safe right, or the ones who
are really safe to me, that Ireally value being friends with
(26:28):
people, whatever layer they'reat and maybe whatever branch
they're at or whatever themetaphor you want to use that I
can show up authentically.
And me being authentic, I'velearned, means that I I can't
keep the peace all the time, andso that's felt really important
for me and how I've learned tokind of navigate friendships and
(26:51):
to adulthood.
Because the reality is is that,yeah, I do still have a couple
of really great friends fromcollege or high school and the
reality is is that they live indifferent States and we just
don't talk all the time.
And I know that we can catch up, you know, once a year and we
can pick up where we left off,and that's safe and that's fine
and there's not going to beresentment and nobody's going to
(27:13):
be mad at anybody, and thenallowing friendships where there
has been maybe a dysfunctionalkind of pattern, allowing them
to run their course and maybenaturally end what they've
needed to.
Laura Deneen (27:26):
Yeah.
April Snow (27:27):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean there is that naturalkind of transition from maybe in
the inner core to the outercore as we grow and our lives
change and we move away fromeach other.
That's okay, that makes sense.
But it sounds like only keepingthose people in your sphere
when it's authentic, when youcan both accept that.
This is the dynamic now, becauseI definitely had friendships
(27:48):
where there's a lot of pressureto be more than that, when it
just didn't make sense and it nolonger felt safe.
And then there's those timeswhere things just kind of
organically fall away.
But I'm wondering, there's justtimes where things just kind of
organically fall away.
But I'm wondering when do weneed to consciously move a
(28:08):
friend to the outer edges or outcompletely?
When do we know this is not asafe friendship anymore?
I can't be myself.
I'm just curious if you couldspeak to a little bit more about
what that looks like, because Ithink HSPs really struggle with
ending friendships and we playthat peacekeeper role a lot of
the times that you talked about,lauren, or that people pleaser,
and we don't end friendshipswhen we should.
Lauren Jackson (28:25):
So I'm just curious if you could speak to
that.
How do we know it's time, yeah?
Yeah, I think, or I wonder if itkind of comes back to we first
have to be really familiar withourselves or really aware of
ourselves and what we're feeling, what our opinions are, what
(28:46):
our thoughts are, what our needsare, what our experiences, what
safety to me means, because allof those things as an HSP are,
they're like, they're big, wefeel them.
I don't know.
I think it can feel maybesometimes scary to get close to
that, and so becoming reallyaware of what those things are
(29:09):
telling us and the informationwe can gather from the
experiences we're having, fromthose places of sensitivity, can
be really informative in whatneeds to happen in a friendship,
or how a friendship maybe needsto evolve, or a conversation
that needs to be had or whatnot.
(29:31):
Because, like I said, I thinkthat just can speak so much to
how each of us individuallyexperience safety and ultimately
, if a relationship maybedoesn't feel safe anymore, that
can be such an indication thatmaybe this friendship is no
longer serving me.
(29:52):
So I think, yeah, really Ithink a lot of it, or at least
maybe even for me comes down todo I know myself first.
Yeah.
April Snow (30:00):
That's such a good reminder.
Yeah, first know who you areand what safety is for you,
cause you're right, it'sdifferent for all of us.
What's safe for one person isnot for another, so that's such
a good reminder Like that's thefoundation where we need to
start from.
Laura Deneen (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, I would add to I think that's like
just such an excellent point,lauren, and knowing yourself
versus that foundation, right.
And then practically, if you'relistening today, I think it's
like okay, repeated violationsof trust, of boundaries,
especially for HSPs, right.
So as an HSP, I cannot committo and I have a little one at
(30:37):
home and all these things, right.
So I cannot commit to thingssocially during the week, maybe
more than like one thing a week,right.
And if I commit and realize Iactually need to go home because
my nervous system needs moreregulation and needs like a hot
bath there, needs to be like amutual respect there, and so
this is kind of a tangent.
(30:57):
But I think when we've done ourwork as HSPs so what I mean by
that is our therapeutic work andknowing yourself, well, you
respond well to another person'sboundaries, or that would be
ideal, right, it's like, yeah, Iactually have to go home, I
can't make it tonight.
And how the other person on theother side receives that and
(31:17):
then how they respond to that Ithink is really telling.
And so that person might evenbe an HSP and not know it, but
still respond poorly, right.
So I think that's likepractical, kind of just really
analyzing how other peoplerespond to our boundaries, how
other people communicate with us, their kind of perception and
(31:39):
even tolerance of emotion.
I think those are practicalthings that can help us figure
out is this person safe for me?
Is this person someone that Imaybe need to like spend a
little bit less time with?
I also love thinking about, likehow I feel before, during and
after.
We use this skill a lot.
(31:59):
Like I spent time with someone.
Am I dreading spending timewith someone?
And if I am, what's that about?
During, how do I feel?
Do I feel withdrawn?
Do I feel shut down?
Do I feel discouraged?
And then afterwards, how do Ifeel when I spend time with
Lauren?
I feel rejuvenated, I feeluplifted and, even if the
content of what we're talkingabout is hard, there is a sense
of like we are in this togetherand we're gonna figure this out.
(32:22):
I feel encouraged, I feelequipped, versus if I'm, maybe,
with a friend that doesn'treally truly see me or hear me
or understand me, I maybe feelmore discouraged or disheartened
or criticize, whatever it mightbe, and those check-ins, like
Lauren was talking about withyourself, I think, can be really
helpful.
So how do I feel beforespending time with this person,
(32:44):
how do I feel during and how doI feel afterwards?
And being intentional aboutnaming that for ourselves, with
our friends, can be reallyfruitful.
April Snow (32:54):
Yeah, I appreciate that it can be as simple as a
quick check-in.
Let me take a baseline beforeand then.
How am I doing after?
And then, even before, do Ifeel depleted?
Do I feel misunderstood?
Do I feel dismissed?
So, knowing yourself, but thenseeing how those friendships are
impacting that base, it's soimportant then to really listen
(33:16):
to that and trust it.
Yeah, I'm curious to hear.
So once we start to do thatwork of reflecting who am I,
what do I need in friendship?
So once we start to do thatwork of reflecting who am I,
what do I need in friendship?
But then, once we find thosepeople that we do feel safe with
and we want to invest time with, how do we make space
energetically to nurture?
So I know you two, obviouslyyou can tell that you find time
for that, you prioritize it.
It seems like just in yourrelationship.
(33:36):
But how can we do that as HSPswhen we have limited bandwidth?
Laura Deneen (33:41):
That's a good question, I know it's a big one.
I'm like I don't know, but takeit day by day yeah, I mean truly
, that's the first thing thatcame to mind is taking it day by
day, right, so a dreamer andplanner, like where I can want
to tend to plan out, like I'malready thinking like what am I
going to do in 2025?
(34:02):
It's just how I'm wired and Ithink this idea of coming home
to yourself is really just thatmindfulness of what is my
capacity today.
You know, we took our littlegirl to like a little petting
zoo on Saturday and Sunday.
I found like I just reallywanted to like sleep and take a
nap and like do nothing and siton my couch, right, because I
was a little bit depleted and itwas so much fun.
But I think it's recognizingwhat the need is and then
(34:25):
honoring it, like we've beentalking about on this show, and
I do think some of that we can'tnecessarily predict, because
life happens, right, griefhappens, unexpected things are
thrown our way, and how we dealwith that, I think is really
important.
So I think that takesmindfulness, it takes intention,
especially as HSPs, if ourcapacity when we're paying
(34:46):
attention might not be as big assomeone else's.
April Snow (34:49):
Yeah, it's so true that we have to have those
counterbalances and there has tobe room for things to shift.
You might be excited to go tothe petting zoo or to this event
or this social gathering, butthen you have to have a balance.
The next day or the next weekand some days you might be
excited about something, butthen you just don't have the
energy, and so needing to shipthings and make space for it
(35:10):
yeah, I'm curious to hear,Lauren, your thoughts on this as
well.
Lauren Jackson (35:13):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's such a.
That's like the question.
I mean, yeah, day by day, Ithink again, do I know myself?
Do I know what my capacity is?
Have I taken that inventory?
Have I checked in with myself?
And can I give myself permissionto, maybe, when I have made
(35:33):
plans, if I get to it and Ican't do it or I don't have
capacity at the time, to put myhand up and say, hey, I can't
make it or these plans aren'tgoing to work for me today, and
learning how to have thoseboundaries, because I think
another thing that can be hardfor the highly sensitive person
is maybe the fear of, like,setting a boundary and how
(35:55):
somebody else is going to reactor respond.
And again, that can speak tolike the safety and the
relationship like Laura wasmentioning, and so that can
speak to like the safety and therelationship like Laura was
mentioning.
And so I think that's some ofthe work that you know we get to
do.
Maybe, whether you're HSP ornot, it's like learning those
good boundaries and with selfand with others.
But, yeah, the bandwidth piecehas tough, you know, cause we're
(36:17):
all different and we all havedifferent levels of capacity,
and so it's just being reallygood at knowing what yours is
and honoring that.
I think that's the key there is.
Just can I honor myself firstand that's okay, and like having
permission to do that.
It's important.
Laura Deneen (36:36):
Yeah, because when we think about like health
right and how other people, Iknow that like we're all so
unique, but if I cancel onsomeone, or if someone cancels
on me, my hope is that myresponse is like oh my gosh, I
totally understand, yes, andlike would love to see you, like
, please go take care ofyourself.
And I think we take it as we gethealthier and grow.
(36:56):
It's less personal, right,versus like maybe before we do
therapy, and it feels morepersonal or so deeply attached
to our self-worth.
We see those boundaries thatLauren's talking about as like
you know, a healthy thing and wecan respond in ways that are
healthy and supportive to thefriendship, versus going to a
(37:18):
place in our minds like theydon't want to spend time with me
or they don't like me, likemaybe it's not even about us,
maybe they just really just needtime, and I think that takes
effort to get there.
Especially if we are moresensitive, we can be like oh,
you know, we haven't done ourwork, maybe feel some feelings
about that, and that's okay.
But I think how people respondto that is really telling as
(37:39):
well.
April Snow (37:40):
Absolutely is, and there's safety in that if
someone can hear and respectyour boundary.
And no, it's not personal, it'sjust there's a lot of pieces in
our lives that need to fittogether and sometimes we need
to make shifts to keep ourselvesafloat right, to keep things
sustainable.
Yeah, there's a need for that.
So I want to end ourconversation today with just
(38:02):
asking you each what's a messageyou could leave for hsps who
are wanting to create deeperconnections in their lives I
mean, lauren, do you have athought?
Lauren Jackson (38:13):
well, anything.
The first thing that comes tomind and I kind of said this at
the beginning, so so I'll justrepeat it your sensitivity is
good and, if you allow it, canreally help you and can really
serve you in a lot of differentways.
Just, you know, stay present inyour life, to stay connected
(38:36):
with people around you, to stayaware of what's going on for you
.
So, yeah, your sensitivity is agood thing and you can use the
information that yoursensitivities are giving you to
inform you of what you need.
April Snow (38:55):
Yeah, thank you for that.
It's true, we get so much inputfrom being more perceptive,
intuitive, emotional.
We can really use that to knowwhat you need, who's safe for
you, where you can show up orwhere you pull back.
It's such a gift.
Thank you for that reminder.
Laura Deneen (39:13):
Yeah, I think, just tagging along with what
Lauren said, I think just honorthat word honoring came up a few
times in today's episode.
Just, you know, I can honorthis trait about myself and you
know, maybe just even givingyourself time to figure out what
your bandwidth is, what yourcapacity is, and also giving
(39:34):
yourself permission for it tochange.
You know, I know, sincebecoming a mom, my bandwidth has
changed and instead ofcriticizing that or shaming
myself for that, I canacknowledge it and figure out
what I need, like Lauren wastalking about.
But, yeah, the highly sensitivepeople, I mean, I know I'm a
little bit biased, but I thinkthat we're a gift to this world
and I, yeah, I think that foranyone listening, if you're new
(39:57):
to figuring out what a highlysensitive person is, it's just
like it's such a cool, amazingthing.
So, yeah, thanks, april.
April Snow (40:05):
Yeah, thank you both .
I really appreciate thatreminder that we have permission
to change whatever it is thatyou're focusing on.
You can change the people, thesituation, how you see yourself,
and we don't have to stay stuckright.
There's a lot of opportunity.
As sensitive people to, I mean,we feel so deeply.
It's such a gift.
(40:25):
You get to feel all thepositive emotions too let's not
forget that and we can reallylean in and just look what's
possible with connection, beingin friendship, in community with
someone.
It's so rich and rewarding andyou two are a clear example of
that, of what's possible, and Ifelt that in my own life with
people where it's such a gift,and I just appreciate you both
(40:47):
being on the podcast today, so Iwill be.
Yeah, this is lovely.
I loved hearing both of yourstories and just kind of getting
a glimpse into yourrelationship was really
beautiful, so I thank you forthat.
Laura Deneen (40:59):
Thank you.
This is the first time we'vebeen asked, as a duo, to be on a
podcast.
Oh, really, yes, we were soexcited.
Thank you, oh, I love that.
April Snow (41:09):
Yeah, just think of you just as a beautiful example
of friendship and I was like, oh, I have to have them both on at
the same time.
Yeah, so I'll be sure to shareall the amazing resources that
you both have your AnchoredCounseling site for folks who
are in Tennessee are looking forsupport.
Also, your Becoming Anchoredpodcast, your courses, your
social media.
There's so many beautifulresources there and I saw that
(41:30):
you also have a couple greatcourses on friendship, on
boundaries relationships.
Could you just tell a littlebit more to listeners about the
resources there, maybe aboutyour podcast or the other
resources that you have there onBecoming Anchored?
Laura Deneen (41:42):
Yeah, so I know that we had you on our podcast
about a month ago, so that's theBecoming Anchored podcast, like
you shared.
Lauren and I are co-hosts forthat, so sometimes I host,
sometimes Lauren does, sometimeswe do it together.
But really the BecomingAnchored podcast was actually
Lauren's idea and it's been sucha fun, rewarding avenue for us
to spend time with people andmeet people across the country
(42:05):
like yourself that we justreally look up to and respect
and admire.
So it's been just anotheroutlet for us as therapists to
do something different thandirect client care, and I think
that just enriches our work tolike learn from other people.
And then we have a blog on theBecoming Anchored site.
We also do have some likeproducts we talk about like
being anchored in hope, so wecan be anchored in lots of
(42:27):
different things and just withthe nature of our work as
therapists, I think a lot oftimes people can feel that
they've lost hope and then, yeah, we're building out the courses
.
Lauren might do one, actually,in the new year, so we're
building out just all thecourses I've been working on,
you know, teaching therapistsabout how to treat body image
and perfectionism and all thethings.
So that's going to continue togrow.
(42:47):
But for now, we do have thatcourse on friendship that I did
and I think there's just a kindof a need for, hey, like this is
something I wish I had had 10years ago, and the hope here is
to that.
It's a little bit, you know.
I know therapy can be quitecostly and so it's just another
avenue to provide support toclients.
April Snow (43:05):
So, yeah, I love it.
Yeah, I mean there's so manygreat resources for folks that
aren't in Tennessee that want towork with you in different ways
, and I love that messageanchored and hope that's really
beautiful.
Laura Deneen (43:15):
Yeah Well, thank you.
April Snow (43:17):
Yeah, Thank you both and yeah, I look forward to
connecting again soon.
Thank you so much for joiningme, Laura and Lauren, for
today's conversation.
What I hope you're taking awayis friendships really are about
(43:38):
quality time, not quantity.
It's okay to be selective aboutwho you invite into your
personal space, your innercircle, and to change your mind
if someone doesn't feel safeanymore.
For more support in developingstronger friendships where you
feel seen and connected, headover to becominganchoredcocom,
where you'll find Laura andLauren's podcast, their course
(44:01):
on navigating friendships and alot of other resources.
Links are in the show notes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind the scenes content andmore HSB resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
(44:23):
Strengths on Instagram, TikTokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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