March 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Are you constantly putting your needs last? In this episode, I talk with Dorothy Meyer about finding the courage to care for yourself and:
• Breaking free from perfectionism with small snippets of self-care
• Resetting from burnout by leaning on your support system and resources
• Closing the gap between your passions and your career to find more meaningful work
• Carving out time for your favorite forms of self-care like reading
Dorothy is a bookseller and small business owner in the Southern New Jersey suburbs of Philadelphia with a career background in corporate Human Resources. She is navigating her way through midlife as a highly sensitive person with an endless curiosity for expanding knowledge about the world and herself. Through the years Dorothy has struggled with perfectionism, overachieving, anxiety and susceptibility to burnout. Understanding herself as an HSP has been an integral component of her overall wellness. She enjoys reading, running, yoga, and spending time in nature.
Keep in touch with Dorothy:
• Website: http://www.renscoffeeandbooks.com
• Ren’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/renscoffeenj
• Dorothy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theyellowbrickreader
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@renscoffeehouseandbooks
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/renscoffeehousenj
Resources Mentioned:
• Ren’s Mailing List: https://www.renscoffeeandbooks.com
• Dorothy’s HSP Reading List: https://bookshop.org/lists/dorothy-s-hsp-reading-list
• Fierce Self-Compass by Kristin Neff, PhD: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780062991065
Thanks for listening! You can read the full show notes and sign up for my email list to get new episode announcements and other resources at:
https://www.sensitivestories.com
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dorothy Meyer (00:00):
There's often things I wanna do and they're
not always easy to do.
It's just a learning and arelearning.
But at the core, it's reallyabout honoring my own needs for
transition, for downtime,listening to my body and
thinking about what I need,instead of meeting all the needs
of everyone else.
April Snow (00:25):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:47):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withDorothy Meyer about the courage
to care for your sensitive needs, bridging the gap between your
passions and your career to findmore meaningful, fulfilling
work, and carving out time foryour favorite forms of self-care
, like reading.
Dorothy is a bookseller andsmall business owner in the
(01:09):
southern New Jersey suburbs ofPhiladelphia.
With a career background incorporate human resources, she
is navigating her way throughmidlife as a highly sensitive
person with an endless curiosityfor expanding knowledge about
the world and herself.
Through the years, dorothy hasstruggled with perfectionism,
overachieving, anxiety andsusceptibility to burnout.
(01:30):
Understanding herself as an HSPhas been an integral component
of her overall wellness.
She enjoys reading, runningyoga and spending time in nature
.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
(01:52):
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with mental health ormedical professional.
Let's dive in.
Hi, dorothy, welcome to thepodcast.
(02:28):
I'm so happy to have you here.
As some folks may not know, weare long-term friends from
college and we've reallyreconnected over the last few
years, which is really sweet, soI'm so happy to have you here
today.
Dorothy Meyer (02:41):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me April.
It's been great to reconnectwith you.
April Snow (02:45):
Yes, and one thing we bonded over is our shared
sensitivity, which we did notknow at the time when we first
met, which I absolutely lovethat we discovered these new
parts of ourselves that we havein common.
So I'm really curious to knowif you remember how or when you
realized that you're a highlysensitive person.
Dorothy Meyer (03:06):
Yeah.
So if I think back to mychildhood, I definitely would
say I was always on the shy side.
Some people probably describeme as painfully shy, Like a
couple of examples, mykindergarten teacher.
He didn't actually believe thatI knew how to read, even though
I was reading before I was everschool-aged.
I actually had a friend inkindergarten who acted as my
(03:31):
spokesperson and I remember alsogoing out to restaurants.
I wouldn't order from waitersby myself until I was about 12
or 13 years old, so just reallyreserved and quiet as a child.
But when I first heard abouthighly sensitive person as a
concept, I had an aversion tothat.
When I first heard about highlysensitive person as a concept,
I had an aversion to that.
The word sensitive I was raisedwhere it's admirable to be
stoic, not show that sensitivity, so it gave me the connotation
(03:57):
of a super emotional person overin the corner crying like a big
feelings word and I always wasmore of a or still am like a
logical, rational thinking typeperson.
That sensitive word didn'treally resonate with me at first
.
But if I stop and think aboutit another way, thinking about
the nervous system, did I alwayshave a sensitive nervous system
(04:18):
?
I definitely did, Movingthrough the world cautiously, in
an observer role, sometimesfearful or hypervigilant, so
that way it did resonate.
April Snow (04:29):
Yeah, there's always those signs that it's there.
Dorothy Meyer (04:32):
Yeah, definitely, and one summer about 10 to 15
years ago, I was going on avacation to the beach.
It's funny you think of a beachread and everyone has a
different definition for that.
This summer we were going toNantucket and I brought the
highly sensitive person ElaineAron's book with me, so that was
my beach read for the summer.
I just remember really it beinglike an academic dense book
(04:55):
that I was sitting on the beachreading, like diving into,
connecting with the material inthere, and so that started to
resonate more with me.
And then, other than that, it'sreally been following the work
that you've been doing.
April Snow (05:07):
Yeah, it's definitely an unconventional
beach read, but at least for me.
When I found the book I wasjust drawn to it and I had not
heard the term before.
But when I saw the book I waslike, oh, this is me.
It just really spoke to me.
So I'm wondering if youremember what made you choose
(05:28):
that particular book for that?
Dorothy Meyer (05:28):
trip.
Yeah, it's funny, I don'tactually remember those details.
I just have the specific memoryof that book being in my beach
bag on that vacation isn't thatfunny how that works.
April Snow (05:39):
You just end up we just end up with these books in
our laps.
Dorothy Meyer (05:43):
I know I love that when a book just
organically ends up in your lifesomehow.
April Snow (05:47):
It's funny how that's happened to me so many
times, where someone will justhand me a book or even sometimes
I've had a book for years, butI'll just for some reason pull
it off the shelf at that pointand then changes your whole life
.
Dorothy Meyer (06:01):
I love that.
There's nothing better thanfinding the right book at the
right time.
April Snow (06:05):
Yeah, it's so true.
So, as you learn more and moreabout your sensitivity, it
sounds being able to weavetogether those different parts
of your experience Because, asyou said, you maybe didn't fit
the typical stereotypical HSP,being only super emotional.
You're also stoic andintellectual, and I love that.
I think we share that in common, having both of those parts.
(06:26):
But as you've learned about it,would you say that you've
accepted it, or would you gothat far?
Yes, oh, that's wonderful,because I know that can be such
a hard process, and I also knowthat in your acceptance you
started to make a lot of changes.
So I'm wondering whatadjustments would you say you've
(06:48):
made to start to honor yoursensitive needs more recently?
Dorothy Meyer (06:51):
When I think about that question, it's really
the first thing I want to say.
It's an ongoing process,because there's often things I
want to do and they're notalways easy to do.
It's just a learning and arelearning, thinking about
making adjustments and keepingthem, but at the core, it's
really about honoring my ownneeds, my needs for transition,
(07:13):
for downtime, just listening tomy body and thinking about what
I need, instead of meeting allthe needs of everyone else.
April Snow (07:21):
It's so easy to put everyone else first, especially
as an HSP, and then we end upputting ourselves last.
Dorothy Meyer (07:28):
Yeah, definitely I've fallen into that over the
years.
The issue for me is justgetting beyond overwhelmed.
I get really beyond my limitsbefore I realize that I've gone
too far.
So that's been a learning aswell.
April Snow (07:42):
Yeah, there's a lot of times where we push ourselves
too far.
We're in that state of chronicanxiety or burnout, we're sick,
we're struggling with our mentalhealth, and then it's wait.
I know I've been in this place.
Something has to change.
So I'm wondering if you've beenin those spaces before.
We've pushed yourself too far.
Dorothy Meyer (08:00):
I definitely have , and I turned 40 this past year
and that was just such a hugemilestone for me.
I think I had a lot ofapprehension leading up to it
and I just inserted so muchmeaning to it, so that's been a
really big part of my journey.
Especially, and actuallyearlier this past year, I had to
(08:21):
remove myself from work for atime and just really take some
time to rest and recover.
April Snow (08:28):
Yeah, we really we don't realize that a lot of
times, the only thing that willwork is just to take a break.
I found that it's not just aweekend or a vacation.
We need true rest and truebreaks, and I'm wondering if
you're open to sharing aboutthat.
Dorothy Meyer (08:43):
I did work with my doctors my primary care
physician, my therapist and Iended up being out for the full
allotted time of FMLA threemonths or 12 weeks.
And it's interesting I couldsay this it took so much to
convince myself that I actuallyneeded to be out of work.
I just have this history ofbeing a workhorse, an
(09:04):
overachieving perfectionist.
So when you take that combinedwith the fact that I'm a
caregiver for some familymembers it was winter, there
were extra things to be doneshoveling, snow, things like
that it really just became toomuch and it just took a little
bit of personal courage.
To admit to the doctors andthen to hear their immediate,
(09:26):
complete, compassionate feedbackwas just so relieving because I
wasn't able to give that tomyself.
April Snow (09:33):
Yeah, you really do need that validation, especially
when you have so much going onthat it's okay to take a break.
Dorothy Meyer (09:39):
It was really important for me.
The funny thing is I was out ofwork, I was resting, recovering
, and it's just this tendency inmy personality to want to be
productive immediately.
Okay, like maybe I rested for,say, a week and then I
immediately started signing upfor courses.
I was signed up for threecourses.
(10:00):
I was on my time off, I wasn'tat my job, I was still doing
some caregiving, I was trying totake care of myself and I
thought the best way to takecare of myself is to learn, to
educate myself, to make the mostof this time off, to enroll in
a self-compassion course.
And then I was enrolled in thisother course and before I knew
it, I was talking to mytherapist saying again I'm
(10:23):
overwhelmed, it's so relatable.
Yeah, so at first I justreplaced one thing with another
and missed the point entirely.
That was the start of my timeoff.
April Snow (10:34):
Yeah, I can relate so much.
It's so easy to do where youwant to maintain that
equilibrium, even if that'sharming you.
And then it takes a long timeto hear those permissions and
let them sink in that it's okayto do nothing especially I know
you're still caregiving andliving your life and taking care
of your home but at least to doless that it can be okay to do
(10:55):
that and to focus on yourself.
That's really hard to do,especially if you're used to
being in that caregiver role orI think, as you called it, that
workhorse mode.
It's doing nothing, at leastfor me.
It often feels uncomfortable,it's edgy, a little dangerous.
Dorothy Meyer (11:10):
That's exactly what I was thinking.
It feels uncomfortable.
It really does.
April Snow (11:14):
We need that emptiness right, that space.
I know I would be doing thesame thing.
You want to resource yourself,you want to learn, you want to
take advantage of this time off.
It's a great opportunity to doall the things that you haven't
had time to do for yourself, andwork and all the other things
are taking up space, but thenyou can maybe learn that there's
.
You need some things to put inyour toolbox because you have
(11:35):
all this time.
It's easy to overwhelm yourselfagain.
It's really hard.
Dorothy Meyer (11:38):
Just a few weeks in, I had to relearn the lesson.
That's not what rest andrecovery actually means.
April Snow (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's a constant relearning, just coming
back to that again and again.
What rest actually is that it'sactually okay to slow down,
it's okay to stop.
I'm wondering if you felt likeyou've been able to shift that
mindset at all, or if you'restill struggling to slow down.
I'd say that I've been able toshift that mindset at all, or if
you're still struggling to slowdown.
Dorothy Meyer (12:01):
I'd say that I've been able to shift it,
definitely not entirely, butenough for me right now.
Towards the end of the leave, Iwas in a much better state.
I had done some really soothingactivities.
I went on a retreat, I did yoga, went on some goat hikes,
forest walk, meditations.
April Snow (12:21):
So many great things and so many restorative things
that you were adding in there.
Dorothy Meyer (12:26):
Yeah, just really trying to take a chance to slow
down and do less.
And then, returning to work, Idefinitely was in a much better
space.
I was determined to not allowmyself to get overworked again.
But I know that's definitelystill and always going to be a
challenge for me.
It's just something I have tobe very intentional about going
(12:48):
forward.
April Snow (12:48):
It definitely takes a lot of intention just really
focusing, instead of going intothose automatic responses, those
old patterns.
And I know that you'rebalancing work, caregiving Also.
You're opening up.
You've helped open up a newbusiness, so that's also on your
plate.
I'm wondering how are youkeeping your feet on the ground
(13:09):
as you wear multiple hats?
Dorothy Meyer (13:12):
Yeah, that's a great question.
My wife had this passionproject, this idea to open a
coffee shop in a bookstore, so Istarted out in the supporter
role.
I said that's awesome, you dothat.
And she needed a push to takethe leap and do it, and I was
definitely able to give her that, and I was happy to give her
(13:35):
that.
It was really exciting.
I saw myself on the sidelinesand then, slowly or quickly, I
don't know what it just flippedand it was really fun and I
decided I wanted to be a part ofit.
So it became a bigger andbigger role for me and I just
realized how passionate I feltabout it too, not just seeing
her fulfill a dream, but reallyalmost like it became a dream of
(13:57):
mine too.
April Snow (13:59):
That's really beautiful.
You started to share that.
Dorothy Meyer (14:02):
Yeah, there was so much excitement about it
coming together, but the balancepart is definitely tough.
I mean, opening a smallbusiness is no joke.
Yeah, there's not a lot ofdowntime right now.
I think what's been driving meforward is the passion and the
autonomy of it all and justbeing the ones making the
(14:22):
decisions, owning something thatwe're both really passionate
about.
April Snow (14:26):
You mentioned two pieces, two components there
which I think are so importantfor HSPs, which is having
passion and meaning in the workthat you're doing.
We really need that and eventhough that work can take a lot
of energy, it usually does whenwe're doing something that we
feel invested in, that can bemore generative.
It actually gives some energyback, or at least some
inspiration.
It feels more purposeful.
(14:47):
And then the second piece ishaving autonomy.
I would not trade that foranything at this point in my
life.
I will work so much longer, somuch harder, to have that
freedom over my own time.
I think a lot of HSPs need that.
So I'm wondering do you feelthat has supported you having
those two pieces in place?
Dorothy Meyer (15:04):
Yes, the passion piece.
I've definitely heard you talkabout that over the years In my
career.
I just landed an HR job.
I didn't choose to have acareer in HR.
I never really thought italigned with my personality.
There's a lot of differentaspects to HR so through the
years I dabbled around andtowards the end I found a niche
(15:25):
in HRIS, which is the systemsaspect, which was really good
because, being as introverted asI am, I don't really want to be
dealing with humans as much asHR kind of requires it by name.
I was always more behind thescenes, working on systems and
processes, applying attention todetail.
I was able to find my spacethere, but I never really felt
(15:49):
passionate about it.
I wasn't even sure it waspossible to be passionate about
your work, like a job is just ajob kind of thing.
Yeah, so that's what's beenreally exciting about the
bookstore is to feel thatpassion.
It's not exactly new work.
A lot of aspects of it I'm ableto bring from my existing skill
(16:10):
set that I formed over theyears, and my wife and I are
able to match our skill sets.
They're opposite in a lot ofways, so everything that she
loves to do are the things Iwouldn't prefer to do, and vice
versa, so we can really bringthis powerful partnership into
it.
And yeah, there's such apassion in doing this work I'd
never really consider eventalking about a past job like
(16:33):
that.
April Snow (16:33):
Yeah, it's amazing Like you've had this discovery,
and it's so exciting to see youand Lauren come together and
bring your two skill setstogether.
Seeing the coffee shop and thenthe bookstore, and just
thinking about how amazing itmust be to combine forces here
and to own your own business,that seems like a dream.
Dorothy Meyer (16:53):
Honestly, it still feels like a dream some
days.
It's no, we actually own abookstore.
April Snow (16:59):
I know how exciting is that.
I know reading is such animportant self-care practice for
you and how important books arefor you and how they really
shaped you.
So I'd love to dive into that alittle bit, if you're open to
sharing more about your favoritetypes of books to read.
Dorothy Meyer (17:16):
Yes, so this is definitely a hard question to
narrow down.
I bet I read pretty widely,broadly across genres.
I also do a pretty even mix ofnonfiction and fiction.
So when I think aboutnonfiction, I really love
personal development books.
For some reason I'm hooked intotime management books, anything
(17:39):
that takes a really deep diveinto basically any topic that
I'm just slightly interested in.
I also really like naturewriting.
I love memoirs, especiallymemoirs that describe a niche
occupation, so it's mixing inthat deep dive element Like I
read a book about alexicographer once, just so
fascinating.
(18:00):
And then I would say, on thefiction side, I've been told I
like my fiction with a dose ofphilosophical existentialism.
Yes, yeah, take that as you may, that tracks, I think, at the
core.
I love a character-driven novelthat's rooted in reality.
So it could be family sagas,specifically sibling-centric
(18:21):
sagas.
I've always been fascinated bybirth order and that gets played
out a lot in fiction.
Again, that deep explorationthat comes into play.
I'm always drawn to those books.
I think the books that land thedeepest in my favorite shelf
are the ones that extrapolate ondeeper existential questions,
diving into those depths of yourexperience as a human.
April Snow (18:43):
I love how you talk about this and how wide your
interests are and you lovelearning and are so passionate
about this.
I definitely have a much morenarrow interest in reading.
I tend to read almostexclusively nonfiction, probably
because of work.
I remember I had a professoronce say you will never read for
yourself again once you becomea therapist, and that has
(19:06):
actually become true.
So I'm almost always reading ineither the psychology or
self-help space.
I'm curious when you have sucha wide menu of options as a
reader, how do you choose whatyou're reading at any given time
?
Are you reading multiples atonce?
Dorothy Meyer (19:23):
Yeah, so I'm typically reading three to five
books at once, and so I vary theformat.
I read audiobooks and printbooks.
That helps me read more thanone at once.
Also, having that mixture ofnonfiction and fiction helps me
read more than one at once.
If I get drawn into one morethan the others, I'll probably
stick with it, but I always havemultiples going.
(19:43):
I have a lot of books on myshelf I haven't read yet, so
that's a natural place for me todecide what to read next.
And now, with the bookstore,I'm keeping up with new releases
.
I'm reading a little bitoutside of my own personal taste
.
Just trying to help curate theselection for the store.
Yeah, there's really noshortage of places that I'm
looking for new books.
April Snow (20:02):
I love it, how fun that must be to just have
reasons to dive into othertitles.
And I know that you're at thispoint working at the bookstore
and your own personal level ofreading.
You're really immersed in allthe corners of the book world,
and I heard you mentioned thatyou consume audiobooks on a
regular basis.
So I just want to clarify for amoment does listening to an
(20:24):
audiobook count as reading abook?
Because I know that comes up alot.
Dorothy Meyer (20:28):
Oh yeah, absolutely it counts.
Okay, yeah, it's been provenyour brain goes through the same
motions whether you're readingin print or listening to
audiobook.
And yeah, honestly, with myschedule lately I've been
reading more audio than printbooks.
But yeah, they definitely count.
April Snow (20:43):
Oh, that's so good to hear.
So it's okay.
If you don't have either thecapacity or the time to sit and
hold a book, you could be on awalk, a car ride, you could be
cleaning your house and beingwith a book, listening to an
audiobook.
Dorothy Meyer (20:59):
Yes, definitely it makes your chores better if
you have an audiobook goingwhile you're doing them.
And I would say the great thingabout audiobooks also is that
they're oftentimes, if you'relistening to nonfiction or a
memoir, for example, they'reoftentimes read by the author
and that really not only is itthe same as reading in print,
but oftentimes it enhances thebook because you have that
(21:20):
person's voice, kind of readingthe words to you.
Or, if you think about afiction book, they are sometimes
read by celebrity authors, awell-known voice.
So again, not only is audiobookthe same as print book, but
oftentimes there are certainbooks that are enhanced on audio
.
April Snow (21:37):
I totally agree, because I'm a huge Brandi
Carlile fan and she put out amemoir at some point during the
pandemic called Broken Horsesand I and I wanted to hear her
voice telling the story.
But also, at the end of everychapter she sings a song that
relates to the story and it justmade it come to life for me in
such a rich way.
That was the first time I waslike this is the power of an
(22:00):
audio book.
I got it.
Dorothy Meyer (22:01):
Yes, I read that on audio too, and that is
definitely a perfect example.
April Snow (22:07):
Yes, and now that you just said that, I was like
wait, this actually could betrue for a lot of other
audiobooks.
I had to put that togetherBecause I have heard books that
are not in the author's voiceand sometimes it's a little
jarring or disjointed,especially if you know the
person.
You've seen them, maybe onvideo or in a movie, or even
heard them on a podcast.
Dorothy Meyer (22:27):
It's like wait, this isn't right on a podcast is
wait, this isn't right, yeah,yeah.
And so there are, like often,celebrity memoirs read by that
person, which is really cool.
And then you said, with theBrandi Carlile book, there are
often like hidden treasures inan audio book that you might not
even realize are in there.
If it's a musician, they'readding songs.
So, yeah, they're definitely alot of fun.
April Snow (22:47):
Oh, I love this.
It makes me want to exploreaudiobooks more, because it's
not my first choice, because I'mnot a strong audio learner, but
having the visceral experienceof the music, or just having the
voice and hearing it, andhaving it match up with the
emotion of the story, makes abig difference for me.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Something I always strugglewith, though, is and maybe you
(23:08):
have some thoughts on this ishow do we find more time to read
?
As HSPs, we have a really smallbandwidth compared to other
people.
We do need to spend some of ourtime quietly reflecting,
recharging, not necessarilytaking in new information or
reading, so how can we findenough time to read.
Dorothy Meyer (23:27):
Yeah, that's a really great question.
Some of what we talked aboutwith letting myself get
overwhelmed and putting othersbefore myself.
Reading is one of the thingsthat I drop the soonest.
I have this tendency to drop myown priorities first, and
that's unfortunate, becausereading is one of my favorite
pastimes and it's reallyimportant to me.
(23:47):
So what I try to do mepersonally more productive in
the mornings and anything I wantto do, I get it done in the
morning.
Yeah, I think it's a reallycalming experience.
Start my day with a cup ofcoffee and just spend 20 minutes
reading.
The snippets of time can be 10minutes if that's all you have,
as long as you try to add it inand make it a habit every day or
(24:08):
most days of the week andyou're getting some reading done
.
April Snow (24:17):
That's so true.
Allow yourself to read insnippets.
I think that's a great practicein letting go of perfectionism,
because I think, if you can, Ithink about this with my yoga as
well, you know, I don't have todo a full hour or two hours.
Even I can do 10 or 20 minutesand that actually adds up over
the week.
If I think about 20 minutesevery morning, that's almost two
hours of reading.
If you're doing that every dayand I love that practice of
(24:41):
feeding yourself first,metaphorically in the morning,
you're doing something foryourself first.
I really do think it sends asignal to your nervous system
that my needs matter.
I'm going to drink a cup ofcoffee or tea.
I'm going to eat my breakfast.
Signal to your nervous systemthat my needs matter.
I'm going to drink a cup ofcoffee or tea, I'm going to eat
my breakfast, I'm going to do myreading or my meditation,
whatever it is, before I answeremails, before I take care of
(25:02):
someone else's needs, if that'spossible, I think that's such an
important message to send.
So I'm curious if we could diveinto what you're currently
reading in the mornings or justgenerally.
Dorothy Meyer (25:11):
Yeah, sure.
So the first book I'm currentlyreading is Meditation for
Mortals by Oliver Berkman.
This is actually a follow up tohis last book, which was called
4,000 Weeks.
So these are personaldevelopment, time management
books, but they're more focusedon the philosophical aspect of
it rather than the productivityaspect of it, and that's
(25:34):
something I really love.
So the interesting thing aboutMeditation for Mortals is in the
introduction he suggests thatyou read one chapter a day,
which was really hard for me atfirst, because I could have just
listened to this book in onesitting.
Oh sure, yeah, I'm doing theaudio version of it alongside
the print version, and I reallyhad to slow myself down with it,
(25:54):
but I'm at the point where it'sbeen really nice, taking it in
a daily increment and kind ofevery morning.
I'm looking forward to thatfive to seven minute meditation.
And then another nonfiction bookthat I just recently started.
It's called I Heard there Was aSecret Chord by David Levitan,
subtitled Music is Medicine.
(26:15):
So I picked this one up on awhim.
We got it into the bookstore.
It was released this past yearand it sounded really
interesting, so I downloaded theaudio version.
Within the first two chapters Iwas just mind blown at how
fascinating.
Yeah, it's definitely one ofthose deep dive books.
For sure he's writing in anacademic style.
(26:36):
It's a little bit more dense,but it's fascinating to think
about what he's talking about.
He's really just in the firstcouple of chapters he's diving
into the way your brain worksmemory and music and just those
two topics alone.
I'm happy with the book.
But I think where he's goingfrom here is he's going to take
(26:58):
an argument about music servingas medicine for different
diseases or cognitive disorders,things that involve memory,
like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
I'm really excited to keepgoing with this one.
April Snow (27:11):
Yeah, we just talked about music and it's so healing
.
It's something that'sdefinitely, I would say, my
number one form of self-care,like deep self-care, and it's,
of course, great when you'restruggling with memory, helping
you come back to yourself toreactivate those memories.
It's really incredible.
Dorothy Meyer (27:27):
Yeah, I've always loved music.
It's definitely hitting a lotof things in my wheelhouse.
So then, on the fiction side,right now I also have a couple
of books going.
I'm reading margo's got moneytroubles.
That's the newest release fromrufy thorpe.
She's been one of my favoriteauthors in recent years.
I actually discovered her backin 2020 with her release called
(27:49):
the Knockout Queen.
Her writing style is justincredible.
She writes a depth of character, like from page one, that I
just can't get over.
If you really like tosympathize with a character,
even if they're flawed or makingbad decisions, this is what
Rufy Thorpe will do to you withher writing.
(28:11):
You will love her characterslike you know them.
April Snow (28:14):
Yeah, it sounds like she makes them really
humanizing.
Dorothy Meyer (28:18):
Yes, and then the other book I'm currently
reading is All Fours by MirandaJuly, so that one also came out
this past year.
This one was recommended to meby a friend and again within the
first chapter I was just hookedinto the writing style, so I'm
looking forward to workingthrough that.
April Snow (28:35):
It sounds like you have this nice balance of really
complex, deep top as such anHSP reader.
Yeah, and something that stoodout to me you mentioned writing
style, which is not somethingI've ever I don't say that I've
really thought about in when I'mchoosing books, so I'm curious
if you could give just say a fewwords about that.
I'm curious to hear more whatyou're looking for.
(28:56):
Yeah, I can try to describethat.
I know it's probably just afeeling, but if you could,
whatever you can share, I'd loveto hear.
Dorothy Meyer (29:05):
I definitely think it's something I want to
underline, I want to quote, butthen again something that's not
going to be too flowery, not toomany beautiful words, really
again rooted in reality, reallydescriptive, rich in details,
describing the characters,describing the setting, just
(29:26):
really making you feel likeyou're either in the setting or
you could be sitting right nextto the character by the time
you're absorbed into the middleof the book.
You're right there with them,you actually feel like you know
them.
I just found with these twobooks, they almost grab you into
that place within the firstchapter or two.
April Snow (29:40):
It sounds really immersive, like it jumps off the
page, which is so important forus as HSPs because we need that
nuance, that depth.
So I'm wondering you know, fromyour current to be read pile,
what is calling to you?
Dorothy Meyer (29:54):
I have a pile of 32 books sitting next to me, so
immediate.
Tbr.
April Snow (29:59):
You always make me feel better about this, by the
way.
Dorothy Meyer (30:02):
Yeah, and aside from that stack here, I have 700
logged, but honestly I'mslightly embarrassed to say this
to your audience, someone.
On my immediate TBR is the workof Kristen Neff, because I
understand she's the godmotherof self compassion and I've
heard so much about the work Ifeel familiar with it already,
(30:25):
though I've never actually readit yeah and one of the things I
really wanted to focus on wasself-compassion, revisiting the
burnout or the apprehension Ifelt around turning 40.
Just being in this phase of life, I feel like I've always
conceptually understoodself-compassion, but being able
to implement it is completelydifferent, and so I feel like
(30:47):
there have only been truly a fewoccasions where I've really
been compassionate to myself.
So, trying to bring that intoregular practice and definitely
looking forward to reading herwork and then another one I
would say is Devotions by MaryOliver.
That's a poetry compilation andI'm leaning into poetry lately,
(31:09):
so I'm really looking forwardto that and I'm leaning into
poetry lately, so I'm reallylooking forward to that.
And then also recognize my 40thbirthday.
I embarked on this wholereading project where I'm
reading 40 books that centeraround this phase of midlife, a
combination of nonfiction andfiction titles.
So that's what's been on myimmediate TBR.
Some of the titles for thatproject I have, but also I'm
(31:30):
letting some organically find meand I actually found a couple
from past episodes of yourpodcast which was really great.
But that's where I'm centering,really diving into midlife.
April Snow (31:39):
I love that you're allowing these milestones to
influence your reading.
I remember seeing you postabout that and, having turned 42
years now, that felt reallymeaningful.
Oh, this is such an intentionalway to dive into your own
experience, your personalprocess, through books and
finding stories like yours thatjust really mark this moment.
(32:01):
I'm wondering could you sharewith listeners how you decided
what to read for that 40th year?
How did you make that decision?
Sure, so I started with themost basic 40 things to do
before you turn 40.
Dorothy Meyer (32:11):
Year.
How did you make that decision?
Sure, so I started with themost basic 40 things to do
before you turn 40.
Perfect, yeah, that's acompilation of essays from
different people celebrities,authors, things like that.
And aside from that I did somecrowdsourcing.
So on Bookstagram I crowdsourcefor any titles people might
think fall into it.
I have found it much easier topick nonfiction titles.
(32:32):
I don't know why I've just beendrawn to nonfiction for this.
It's been a little bit more ofa struggle to find fiction
titles, but I have had a coupleof good recommendations from
friends, a book they read andrealized that the characters
were at that stage in their life.
So those have been the mainways just doing a little bit of
research, even just tagging theword 40 and seeing what comes up
(32:54):
in book titles, and then askingmy friends, pulling some
nonfiction titles that werealready on my radar.
April Snow (33:01):
That's smart, you know, leaning on your community,
because not every book that'sabout that decade or being 40 is
going to have it in the title.
And I remember 40, my 40thbirthday, being felt like.
Obviously I don't know whatit's going to be like going
forward, but it felt like themost pivotal birthday so far.
Dorothy Meyer (33:17):
Yeah, definitely.
April Snow (33:18):
Yeah, like 30 is important, but it felt more
light hearted where 40 wasserious.
Okay, now it's time to figurethings out, to make any shifts
before it's too late.
Dorothy Meyer (33:29):
What you're saying really resonates with me,
because that's how it felt forme too.
There's a gravity to it, and italso felt like this chance to
redefine myself, and I justreally felt this energy of a
catalyst for change behind thebirthday, more than I ever felt
with another one.
April Snow (33:44):
Yeah, I felt that too.
I'm wondering, as we start towrap up, if you could share one
message with HSP listeners.
What would you want them tohear before we go?
Dorothy Meyer (33:53):
I would say lean into your support system.
I'm definitely someone whotends to isolate and as long as
I'm taking care of everyone else, no one needs to know what I
need.
But it's important to havethose people that you can trust
and I would say, if you're in ajob that offers FMLA, that you
should take it if you think youcan trust.
And I would say if you're in ajob that offers FMLA, that you
should take it if you think youneed it.
I think there's this tendencyto believe that it's for other
(34:16):
people who really need it.
But, coming from the HR space,if you think you need it, then
trust yourself.
It's there for a reason, so useit if you need it.
April Snow (34:26):
Yeah, look and see what resources are available and
lean into those.
Dorothy Meyer (34:30):
Yeah, and I think beyond that.
Just follow your heart and yourintuition.
I'm more of a thinker.
I've not always been in tunewith my feelings, but it's there
and you have to trust it.
April Snow (34:41):
Yeah, you really do, dorothy.
Thank you so much for today,for sharing your story and your
love of reading with us.
I really appreciated everythingthat you shared and I'll be
sure to share your website, yoursocial media, your other
resources in the show notes.
You've put together a reallyfabulous HSP reading list for us
which I'm really excited for,and not just the typical titles
(35:03):
but stories that are telling HSPstories indirectly, which I
think is beautiful For folks whoare local to New Jersey or
they're visiting the Blackwoodarea.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about Wren's Coffeehouse?
Dorothy Meyer (35:16):
and Books?
Yes, definitely so.
Again, thank you so much forhaving me.
It was such a pleasure to dothis podcast and Wren's
Coffeehouse and Books.
We are located in Blackwood,new Jersey.
It's a suburb of Philadelphia.
On the one side you'll find ourcoffee house and then on the
other side is the bookstore.
So we have a curated selectionof new and used books, as well
(35:37):
as local authors, local artists,some bookish goods and other
crafts that locals have createdin the store we opened in June
of 2024.
It's been really exciting goingfirst year.
In addition to the coffee shopand the bookstore, we host
events, so we've had open micnight, game night, writers club,
(35:59):
book club lots of fun thingsgoing on.
April Snow (36:02):
I was so honored to visit when I was back home on
the East Coast and it's exactlylike you described.
It's like this community hub somany great books, local authors
, a lot of cute gifts in thestore.
I just remember being like, wow, you guys have a great
selection.
And then just passing throughto the coffee shop and all the
delicious drinks and treats andit just felt really warm and
(36:23):
welcoming because we got to sitand chat for a little while in
the chairs by the front window,I was like this feels like a
second home.
I don't know, it just feltreally welcoming.
So I just appreciated being ona visit.
Dorothy Meyer (36:33):
Yeah, thank you so much for stopping in.
I'm so glad you felt that way.
It's been really great, thecommunity has been really great,
so we'd love to see anyonewho's local to the Philadelphia
area and otherwise.
You can keep up with us onsocial media and our website.
Beautiful Thanks, dorothy.
Yeah, thank you so much, april.
April Snow (36:59):
Thanks so much for joining me and Dorothy for
today's conversation.
I hope you remember that it'sokay to lean into your resources
and your support system whenyou're feeling burned out or
dissatisfied.
I also hope you'll feelinspired to carve out more time
for reading or whatever lightsyou up.
Start your day with that.
If you're an avid reader andbook lover, sign up for Wren's
(37:23):
Coffeehouse and Books mailinglist for book news and local
events.
You can also stop into the shopif you're in the Blackwood, new
Jersey area.
Links for these resources arein the Blackwood, new Jersey
area.
Links for these resources arein the show notes, along with a
suggested HSP reading listcurated by Dorothy.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(37:45):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening you.
There's often things I wanna do and they're
not always easy to do.
It's just a learning and arelearning.
But at the core, it's reallyabout honoring my own needs for
transition, for downtime,listening to my body and
thinking about what I need,instead of meeting all the needs
of everyone else.
April Snow (00:25):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:47):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withDorothy Meyer about the courage
to care for your sensitive needs, bridging the gap between your
passions and your career to findmore meaningful, fulfilling
work, and carving out time foryour favorite forms of self-care
, like reading.
Dorothy is a bookseller andsmall business owner in the
(01:09):
southern New Jersey suburbs ofPhiladelphia.
With a career background incorporate human resources, she
is navigating her way throughmidlife as a highly sensitive
person with an endless curiosityfor expanding knowledge about
the world and herself.
Through the years, dorothy hasstruggled with perfectionism,
overachieving, anxiety andsusceptibility to burnout.
(01:30):
Understanding herself as an HSPhas been an integral component
of her overall wellness.
She enjoys reading, runningyoga and spending time in nature
.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
(01:52):
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with mental health ormedical professional.
Let's dive in.
Hi, dorothy, welcome to thepodcast.
(02:28):
I'm so happy to have you here.
As some folks may not know, weare long-term friends from
college and we've reallyreconnected over the last few
years, which is really sweet, soI'm so happy to have you here
today.
Dorothy Meyer (02:41):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me April.
It's been great to reconnectwith you.
April Snow (02:45):
Yes, and one thing we bonded over is our shared
sensitivity, which we did notknow at the time when we first
met, which I absolutely lovethat we discovered these new
parts of ourselves that we havein common.
So I'm really curious to knowif you remember how or when you
realized that you're a highlysensitive person.
Dorothy Meyer (03:06):
Yeah.
So if I think back to mychildhood, I definitely would
say I was always on the shy side.
Some people probably describeme as painfully shy, Like a
couple of examples, mykindergarten teacher.
He didn't actually believe thatI knew how to read, even though
I was reading before I was everschool-aged.
I actually had a friend inkindergarten who acted as my
(03:31):
spokesperson and I remember alsogoing out to restaurants.
I wouldn't order from waitersby myself until I was about 12
or 13 years old, so just reallyreserved and quiet as a child.
But when I first heard abouthighly sensitive person as a
concept, I had an aversion tothat.
When I first heard about highlysensitive person as a concept,
I had an aversion to that.
The word sensitive I was raisedwhere it's admirable to be
stoic, not show that sensitivity, so it gave me the connotation
(03:57):
of a super emotional person overin the corner crying like a big
feelings word and I always wasmore of a or still am like a
logical, rational thinking typeperson.
That sensitive word didn'treally resonate with me at first
.
But if I stop and think aboutit another way, thinking about
the nervous system, did I alwayshave a sensitive nervous system
(04:18):
?
I definitely did, Movingthrough the world cautiously, in
an observer role, sometimesfearful or hypervigilant, so
that way it did resonate.
April Snow (04:29):
Yeah, there's always those signs that it's there.
Dorothy Meyer (04:32):
Yeah, definitely, and one summer about 10 to 15
years ago, I was going on avacation to the beach.
It's funny you think of a beachread and everyone has a
different definition for that.
This summer we were going toNantucket and I brought the
highly sensitive person ElaineAron's book with me, so that was
my beach read for the summer.
I just remember really it beinglike an academic dense book
(04:55):
that I was sitting on the beachreading, like diving into,
connecting with the material inthere, and so that started to
resonate more with me.
And then, other than that, it'sreally been following the work
that you've been doing.
April Snow (05:07):
Yeah, it's definitely an unconventional
beach read, but at least for me.
When I found the book I wasjust drawn to it and I had not
heard the term before.
But when I saw the book I waslike, oh, this is me.
It just really spoke to me.
So I'm wondering if youremember what made you choose
(05:28):
that particular book for that?
Dorothy Meyer (05:28):
trip.
Yeah, it's funny, I don'tactually remember those details.
I just have the specific memoryof that book being in my beach
bag on that vacation isn't thatfunny how that works.
April Snow (05:39):
You just end up we just end up with these books in
our laps.
Dorothy Meyer (05:43):
I know I love that when a book just
organically ends up in your lifesomehow.
April Snow (05:47):
It's funny how that's happened to me so many
times, where someone will justhand me a book or even sometimes
I've had a book for years, butI'll just for some reason pull
it off the shelf at that pointand then changes your whole life
.
Dorothy Meyer (06:01):
I love that.
There's nothing better thanfinding the right book at the
right time.
April Snow (06:05):
Yeah, it's so true.
So, as you learn more and moreabout your sensitivity, it
sounds being able to weavetogether those different parts
of your experience Because, asyou said, you maybe didn't fit
the typical stereotypical HSP,being only super emotional.
You're also stoic andintellectual, and I love that.
I think we share that in common, having both of those parts.
(06:26):
But as you've learned about it,would you say that you've
accepted it, or would you gothat far?
Yes, oh, that's wonderful,because I know that can be such
a hard process, and I also knowthat in your acceptance you
started to make a lot of changes.
So I'm wondering whatadjustments would you say you've
(06:48):
made to start to honor yoursensitive needs more recently?
Dorothy Meyer (06:51):
When I think about that question, it's really
the first thing I want to say.
It's an ongoing process,because there's often things I
want to do and they're notalways easy to do.
It's just a learning and arelearning, thinking about
making adjustments and keepingthem, but at the core, it's
really about honoring my ownneeds, my needs for transition,
(07:13):
for downtime, just listening tomy body and thinking about what
I need, instead of meeting allthe needs of everyone else.
April Snow (07:21):
It's so easy to put everyone else first, especially
as an HSP, and then we end upputting ourselves last.
Dorothy Meyer (07:28):
Yeah, definitely I've fallen into that over the
years.
The issue for me is justgetting beyond overwhelmed.
I get really beyond my limitsbefore I realize that I've gone
too far.
So that's been a learning aswell.
April Snow (07:42):
Yeah, there's a lot of times where we push ourselves
too far.
We're in that state of chronicanxiety or burnout, we're sick,
we're struggling with our mentalhealth, and then it's wait.
I know I've been in this place.
Something has to change.
So I'm wondering if you've beenin those spaces before.
We've pushed yourself too far.
Dorothy Meyer (08:00):
I definitely have , and I turned 40 this past year
and that was just such a hugemilestone for me.
I think I had a lot ofapprehension leading up to it
and I just inserted so muchmeaning to it, so that's been a
really big part of my journey.
Especially, and actuallyearlier this past year, I had to
(08:21):
remove myself from work for atime and just really take some
time to rest and recover.
April Snow (08:28):
Yeah, we really we don't realize that a lot of
times, the only thing that willwork is just to take a break.
I found that it's not just aweekend or a vacation.
We need true rest and truebreaks, and I'm wondering if
you're open to sharing aboutthat.
Dorothy Meyer (08:43):
I did work with my doctors my primary care
physician, my therapist and Iended up being out for the full
allotted time of FMLA threemonths or 12 weeks.
And it's interesting I couldsay this it took so much to
convince myself that I actuallyneeded to be out of work.
I just have this history ofbeing a workhorse, an
(09:04):
overachieving perfectionist.
So when you take that combinedwith the fact that I'm a
caregiver for some familymembers it was winter, there
were extra things to be doneshoveling, snow, things like
that it really just became toomuch and it just took a little
bit of personal courage.
To admit to the doctors andthen to hear their immediate,
(09:26):
complete, compassionate feedbackwas just so relieving because I
wasn't able to give that tomyself.
April Snow (09:33):
Yeah, you really do need that validation, especially
when you have so much going onthat it's okay to take a break.
Dorothy Meyer (09:39):
It was really important for me.
The funny thing is I was out ofwork, I was resting, recovering
, and it's just this tendency inmy personality to want to be
productive immediately.
Okay, like maybe I rested for,say, a week and then I
immediately started signing upfor courses.
I was signed up for threecourses.
(10:00):
I was on my time off, I wasn'tat my job, I was still doing
some caregiving, I was trying totake care of myself and I
thought the best way to takecare of myself is to learn, to
educate myself, to make the mostof this time off, to enroll in
a self-compassion course.
And then I was enrolled in thisother course and before I knew
it, I was talking to mytherapist saying again I'm
(10:23):
overwhelmed, it's so relatable.
Yeah, so at first I justreplaced one thing with another
and missed the point entirely.
That was the start of my timeoff.
April Snow (10:34):
Yeah, I can relate so much.
It's so easy to do where youwant to maintain that
equilibrium, even if that'sharming you.
And then it takes a long timeto hear those permissions and
let them sink in that it's okayto do nothing especially I know
you're still caregiving andliving your life and taking care
of your home but at least to doless that it can be okay to do
(10:55):
that and to focus on yourself.
That's really hard to do,especially if you're used to
being in that caregiver role orI think, as you called it, that
workhorse mode.
It's doing nothing, at leastfor me.
It often feels uncomfortable,it's edgy, a little dangerous.
Dorothy Meyer (11:10):
That's exactly what I was thinking.
It feels uncomfortable.
It really does.
April Snow (11:14):
We need that emptiness right, that space.
I know I would be doing thesame thing.
You want to resource yourself,you want to learn, you want to
take advantage of this time off.
It's a great opportunity to doall the things that you haven't
had time to do for yourself, andwork and all the other things
are taking up space, but thenyou can maybe learn that there's
.
You need some things to put inyour toolbox because you have
(11:35):
all this time.
It's easy to overwhelm yourselfagain.
It's really hard.
Dorothy Meyer (11:38):
Just a few weeks in, I had to relearn the lesson.
That's not what rest andrecovery actually means.
April Snow (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's a constant relearning, just coming
back to that again and again.
What rest actually is that it'sactually okay to slow down,
it's okay to stop.
I'm wondering if you felt likeyou've been able to shift that
mindset at all, or if you'restill struggling to slow down.
I'd say that I've been able toshift that mindset at all, or if
you're still struggling to slowdown.
Dorothy Meyer (12:01):
I'd say that I've been able to shift it,
definitely not entirely, butenough for me right now.
Towards the end of the leave, Iwas in a much better state.
I had done some really soothingactivities.
I went on a retreat, I did yoga, went on some goat hikes,
forest walk, meditations.
April Snow (12:21):
So many great things and so many restorative things
that you were adding in there.
Dorothy Meyer (12:26):
Yeah, just really trying to take a chance to slow
down and do less.
And then, returning to work, Idefinitely was in a much better
space.
I was determined to not allowmyself to get overworked again.
But I know that's definitelystill and always going to be a
challenge for me.
It's just something I have tobe very intentional about going
(12:48):
forward.
April Snow (12:48):
It definitely takes a lot of intention just really
focusing, instead of going intothose automatic responses, those
old patterns.
And I know that you'rebalancing work, caregiving Also.
You're opening up.
You've helped open up a newbusiness, so that's also on your
plate.
I'm wondering how are youkeeping your feet on the ground
(13:09):
as you wear multiple hats?
Dorothy Meyer (13:12):
Yeah, that's a great question.
My wife had this passionproject, this idea to open a
coffee shop in a bookstore, so Istarted out in the supporter
role.
I said that's awesome, you dothat.
And she needed a push to takethe leap and do it, and I was
definitely able to give her that, and I was happy to give her
(13:35):
that.
It was really exciting.
I saw myself on the sidelinesand then, slowly or quickly, I
don't know what it just flippedand it was really fun and I
decided I wanted to be a part ofit.
So it became a bigger andbigger role for me and I just
realized how passionate I feltabout it too, not just seeing
her fulfill a dream, but reallyalmost like it became a dream of
(13:57):
mine too.
April Snow (13:59):
That's really beautiful.
You started to share that.
Dorothy Meyer (14:02):
Yeah, there was so much excitement about it
coming together, but the balancepart is definitely tough.
I mean, opening a smallbusiness is no joke.
Yeah, there's not a lot ofdowntime right now.
I think what's been driving meforward is the passion and the
autonomy of it all and justbeing the ones making the
(14:22):
decisions, owning something thatwe're both really passionate
about.
April Snow (14:26):
You mentioned two pieces, two components there
which I think are so importantfor HSPs, which is having
passion and meaning in the workthat you're doing.
We really need that and eventhough that work can take a lot
of energy, it usually does whenwe're doing something that we
feel invested in, that can bemore generative.
It actually gives some energyback, or at least some
inspiration.
It feels more purposeful.
(14:47):
And then the second piece ishaving autonomy.
I would not trade that foranything at this point in my
life.
I will work so much longer, somuch harder, to have that
freedom over my own time.
I think a lot of HSPs need that.
So I'm wondering do you feelthat has supported you having
those two pieces in place?
Dorothy Meyer (15:04):
Yes, the passion piece.
I've definitely heard you talkabout that over the years In my
career.
I just landed an HR job.
I didn't choose to have acareer in HR.
I never really thought italigned with my personality.
There's a lot of differentaspects to HR so through the
years I dabbled around andtowards the end I found a niche
(15:25):
in HRIS, which is the systemsaspect, which was really good
because, being as introverted asI am, I don't really want to be
dealing with humans as much asHR kind of requires it by name.
I was always more behind thescenes, working on systems and
processes, applying attention todetail.
I was able to find my spacethere, but I never really felt
(15:49):
passionate about it.
I wasn't even sure it waspossible to be passionate about
your work, like a job is just ajob kind of thing.
Yeah, so that's what's beenreally exciting about the
bookstore is to feel thatpassion.
It's not exactly new work.
A lot of aspects of it I'm ableto bring from my existing skill
(16:10):
set that I formed over theyears, and my wife and I are
able to match our skill sets.
They're opposite in a lot ofways, so everything that she
loves to do are the things Iwouldn't prefer to do, and vice
versa, so we can really bringthis powerful partnership into
it.
And yeah, there's such apassion in doing this work I'd
never really consider eventalking about a past job like
(16:33):
that.
April Snow (16:33):
Yeah, it's amazing Like you've had this discovery,
and it's so exciting to see youand Lauren come together and
bring your two skill setstogether.
Seeing the coffee shop and thenthe bookstore, and just
thinking about how amazing itmust be to combine forces here
and to own your own business,that seems like a dream.
Dorothy Meyer (16:53):
Honestly, it still feels like a dream some
days.
It's no, we actually own abookstore.
April Snow (16:59):
I know how exciting is that.
I know reading is such animportant self-care practice for
you and how important books arefor you and how they really
shaped you.
So I'd love to dive into that alittle bit, if you're open to
sharing more about your favoritetypes of books to read.
Dorothy Meyer (17:16):
Yes, so this is definitely a hard question to
narrow down.
I bet I read pretty widely,broadly across genres.
I also do a pretty even mix ofnonfiction and fiction.
So when I think aboutnonfiction, I really love
personal development books.
For some reason I'm hooked intotime management books, anything
(17:39):
that takes a really deep diveinto basically any topic that
I'm just slightly interested in.
I also really like naturewriting.
I love memoirs, especiallymemoirs that describe a niche
occupation, so it's mixing inthat deep dive element Like I
read a book about alexicographer once, just so
fascinating.
(18:00):
And then I would say, on thefiction side, I've been told I
like my fiction with a dose ofphilosophical existentialism.
Yes, yeah, take that as you may, that tracks, I think, at the
core.
I love a character-driven novelthat's rooted in reality.
So it could be family sagas,specifically sibling-centric
(18:21):
sagas.
I've always been fascinated bybirth order and that gets played
out a lot in fiction.
Again, that deep explorationthat comes into play.
I'm always drawn to those books.
I think the books that land thedeepest in my favorite shelf
are the ones that extrapolate ondeeper existential questions,
diving into those depths of yourexperience as a human.
April Snow (18:43):
I love how you talk about this and how wide your
interests are and you lovelearning and are so passionate
about this.
I definitely have a much morenarrow interest in reading.
I tend to read almostexclusively nonfiction, probably
because of work.
I remember I had a professoronce say you will never read for
yourself again once you becomea therapist, and that has
(19:06):
actually become true.
So I'm almost always reading ineither the psychology or
self-help space.
I'm curious when you have sucha wide menu of options as a
reader, how do you choose whatyou're reading at any given time
?
Are you reading multiples atonce?
Dorothy Meyer (19:23):
Yeah, so I'm typically reading three to five
books at once, and so I vary theformat.
I read audiobooks and printbooks.
That helps me read more thanone at once.
Also, having that mixture ofnonfiction and fiction helps me
read more than one at once.
If I get drawn into one morethan the others, I'll probably
stick with it, but I always havemultiples going.
(19:43):
I have a lot of books on myshelf I haven't read yet, so
that's a natural place for me todecide what to read next.
And now, with the bookstore,I'm keeping up with new releases
.
I'm reading a little bitoutside of my own personal taste
.
Just trying to help curate theselection for the store.
Yeah, there's really noshortage of places that I'm
looking for new books.
April Snow (20:02):
I love it, how fun that must be to just have
reasons to dive into othertitles.
And I know that you're at thispoint working at the bookstore
and your own personal level ofreading.
You're really immersed in allthe corners of the book world,
and I heard you mentioned thatyou consume audiobooks on a
regular basis.
So I just want to clarify for amoment does listening to an
(20:24):
audiobook count as reading abook?
Because I know that comes up alot.
Dorothy Meyer (20:28):
Oh yeah, absolutely it counts.
Okay, yeah, it's been provenyour brain goes through the same
motions whether you're readingin print or listening to
audiobook.
And yeah, honestly, with myschedule lately I've been
reading more audio than printbooks.
But yeah, they definitely count.
April Snow (20:43):
Oh, that's so good to hear.
So it's okay.
If you don't have either thecapacity or the time to sit and
hold a book, you could be on awalk, a car ride, you could be
cleaning your house and beingwith a book, listening to an
audiobook.
Dorothy Meyer (20:59):
Yes, definitely it makes your chores better if
you have an audiobook goingwhile you're doing them.
And I would say the great thingabout audiobooks also is that
they're oftentimes, if you'relistening to nonfiction or a
memoir, for example, they'reoftentimes read by the author
and that really not only is itthe same as reading in print,
but oftentimes it enhances thebook because you have that
(21:20):
person's voice, kind of readingthe words to you.
Or, if you think about afiction book, they are sometimes
read by celebrity authors, awell-known voice.
So again, not only is audiobookthe same as print book, but
oftentimes there are certainbooks that are enhanced on audio
.
April Snow (21:37):
I totally agree, because I'm a huge Brandi
Carlile fan and she put out amemoir at some point during the
pandemic called Broken Horsesand I and I wanted to hear her
voice telling the story.
But also, at the end of everychapter she sings a song that
relates to the story and it justmade it come to life for me in
such a rich way.
That was the first time I waslike this is the power of an
(22:00):
audio book.
I got it.
Dorothy Meyer (22:01):
Yes, I read that on audio too, and that is
definitely a perfect example.
April Snow (22:07):
Yes, and now that you just said that, I was like
wait, this actually could betrue for a lot of other
audiobooks.
I had to put that togetherBecause I have heard books that
are not in the author's voiceand sometimes it's a little
jarring or disjointed,especially if you know the
person.
You've seen them, maybe onvideo or in a movie, or even
heard them on a podcast.
Dorothy Meyer (22:27):
It's like wait, this isn't right on a podcast is
wait, this isn't right, yeah,yeah.
And so there are, like often,celebrity memoirs read by that
person, which is really cool.
And then you said, with theBrandi Carlile book, there are
often like hidden treasures inan audio book that you might not
even realize are in there.
If it's a musician, they'readding songs.
So, yeah, they're definitely alot of fun.
April Snow (22:47):
Oh, I love this.
It makes me want to exploreaudiobooks more, because it's
not my first choice, because I'mnot a strong audio learner, but
having the visceral experienceof the music, or just having the
voice and hearing it, andhaving it match up with the
emotion of the story, makes abig difference for me.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Something I always strugglewith, though, is and maybe you
(23:08):
have some thoughts on this ishow do we find more time to read
?
As HSPs, we have a really smallbandwidth compared to other
people.
We do need to spend some of ourtime quietly reflecting,
recharging, not necessarilytaking in new information or
reading, so how can we findenough time to read.
Dorothy Meyer (23:27):
Yeah, that's a really great question.
Some of what we talked aboutwith letting myself get
overwhelmed and putting othersbefore myself.
Reading is one of the thingsthat I drop the soonest.
I have this tendency to drop myown priorities first, and
that's unfortunate, becausereading is one of my favorite
pastimes and it's reallyimportant to me.
(23:47):
So what I try to do mepersonally more productive in
the mornings and anything I wantto do, I get it done in the
morning.
Yeah, I think it's a reallycalming experience.
Start my day with a cup ofcoffee and just spend 20 minutes
reading.
The snippets of time can be 10minutes if that's all you have,
as long as you try to add it inand make it a habit every day or
(24:08):
most days of the week andyou're getting some reading done
.
April Snow (24:17):
That's so true.
Allow yourself to read insnippets.
I think that's a great practicein letting go of perfectionism,
because I think, if you can, Ithink about this with my yoga as
well, you know, I don't have todo a full hour or two hours.
Even I can do 10 or 20 minutesand that actually adds up over
the week.
If I think about 20 minutesevery morning, that's almost two
hours of reading.
If you're doing that every dayand I love that practice of
(24:41):
feeding yourself first,metaphorically in the morning,
you're doing something foryourself first.
I really do think it sends asignal to your nervous system
that my needs matter.
I'm going to drink a cup ofcoffee or tea.
I'm going to eat my breakfast.
Signal to your nervous systemthat my needs matter.
I'm going to drink a cup ofcoffee or tea, I'm going to eat
my breakfast, I'm going to do myreading or my meditation,
whatever it is, before I answeremails, before I take care of
(25:02):
someone else's needs, if that'spossible, I think that's such an
important message to send.
So I'm curious if we could diveinto what you're currently
reading in the mornings or justgenerally.
Dorothy Meyer (25:11):
Yeah, sure.
So the first book I'm currentlyreading is Meditation for
Mortals by Oliver Berkman.
This is actually a follow up tohis last book, which was called
4,000 Weeks.
So these are personaldevelopment, time management
books, but they're more focusedon the philosophical aspect of
it rather than the productivityaspect of it, and that's
(25:34):
something I really love.
So the interesting thing aboutMeditation for Mortals is in the
introduction he suggests thatyou read one chapter a day,
which was really hard for me atfirst, because I could have just
listened to this book in onesitting.
Oh sure, yeah, I'm doing theaudio version of it alongside
the print version, and I reallyhad to slow myself down with it,
(25:54):
but I'm at the point where it'sbeen really nice, taking it in
a daily increment and kind ofevery morning.
I'm looking forward to thatfive to seven minute meditation.
And then another nonfiction bookthat I just recently started.
It's called I Heard there Was aSecret Chord by David Levitan,
subtitled Music is Medicine.
(26:15):
So I picked this one up on awhim.
We got it into the bookstore.
It was released this past yearand it sounded really
interesting, so I downloaded theaudio version.
Within the first two chapters Iwas just mind blown at how
fascinating.
Yeah, it's definitely one ofthose deep dive books.
For sure he's writing in anacademic style.
(26:36):
It's a little bit more dense,but it's fascinating to think
about what he's talking about.
He's really just in the firstcouple of chapters he's diving
into the way your brain worksmemory and music and just those
two topics alone.
I'm happy with the book.
But I think where he's goingfrom here is he's going to take
(26:58):
an argument about music servingas medicine for different
diseases or cognitive disorders,things that involve memory,
like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
I'm really excited to keepgoing with this one.
April Snow (27:11):
Yeah, we just talked about music and it's so healing
.
It's something that'sdefinitely, I would say, my
number one form of self-care,like deep self-care, and it's,
of course, great when you'restruggling with memory, helping
you come back to yourself toreactivate those memories.
It's really incredible.
Dorothy Meyer (27:27):
Yeah, I've always loved music.
It's definitely hitting a lotof things in my wheelhouse.
So then, on the fiction side,right now I also have a couple
of books going.
I'm reading margo's got moneytroubles.
That's the newest release fromrufy thorpe.
She's been one of my favoriteauthors in recent years.
I actually discovered her backin 2020 with her release called
(27:49):
the Knockout Queen.
Her writing style is justincredible.
She writes a depth of character, like from page one, that I
just can't get over.
If you really like tosympathize with a character,
even if they're flawed or makingbad decisions, this is what
Rufy Thorpe will do to you withher writing.
(28:11):
You will love her characterslike you know them.
April Snow (28:14):
Yeah, it sounds like she makes them really
humanizing.
Dorothy Meyer (28:18):
Yes, and then the other book I'm currently
reading is All Fours by MirandaJuly, so that one also came out
this past year.
This one was recommended to meby a friend and again within the
first chapter I was just hookedinto the writing style, so I'm
looking forward to workingthrough that.
April Snow (28:35):
It sounds like you have this nice balance of really
complex, deep top as such anHSP reader.
Yeah, and something that stoodout to me you mentioned writing
style, which is not somethingI've ever I don't say that I've
really thought about in when I'mchoosing books, so I'm curious
if you could give just say a fewwords about that.
I'm curious to hear more whatyou're looking for.
(28:56):
Yeah, I can try to describethat.
I know it's probably just afeeling, but if you could,
whatever you can share, I'd loveto hear.
Dorothy Meyer (29:05):
I definitely think it's something I want to
underline, I want to quote, butthen again something that's not
going to be too flowery, not toomany beautiful words, really
again rooted in reality, reallydescriptive, rich in details,
describing the characters,describing the setting, just
(29:26):
really making you feel likeyou're either in the setting or
you could be sitting right nextto the character by the time
you're absorbed into the middleof the book.
You're right there with them,you actually feel like you know
them.
I just found with these twobooks, they almost grab you into
that place within the firstchapter or two.
April Snow (29:40):
It sounds really immersive, like it jumps off the
page, which is so important forus as HSPs because we need that
nuance, that depth.
So I'm wondering you know, fromyour current to be read pile,
what is calling to you?
Dorothy Meyer (29:54):
I have a pile of 32 books sitting next to me, so
immediate.
Tbr.
April Snow (29:59):
You always make me feel better about this, by the
way.
Dorothy Meyer (30:02):
Yeah, and aside from that stack here, I have 700
logged, but honestly I'mslightly embarrassed to say this
to your audience, someone.
On my immediate TBR is the workof Kristen Neff, because I
understand she's the godmotherof self compassion and I've
heard so much about the work Ifeel familiar with it already,
(30:25):
though I've never actually readit yeah and one of the things I
really wanted to focus on wasself-compassion, revisiting the
burnout or the apprehension Ifelt around turning 40.
Just being in this phase of life, I feel like I've always
conceptually understoodself-compassion, but being able
to implement it is completelydifferent, and so I feel like
(30:47):
there have only been truly a fewoccasions where I've really
been compassionate to myself.
So, trying to bring that intoregular practice and definitely
looking forward to reading herwork and then another one I
would say is Devotions by MaryOliver.
That's a poetry compilation andI'm leaning into poetry lately,
(31:09):
so I'm really looking forwardto that and I'm leaning into
poetry lately, so I'm reallylooking forward to that.
And then also recognize my 40thbirthday.
I embarked on this wholereading project where I'm
reading 40 books that centeraround this phase of midlife, a
combination of nonfiction andfiction titles.
So that's what's been on myimmediate TBR.
Some of the titles for thatproject I have, but also I'm
(31:30):
letting some organically find meand I actually found a couple
from past episodes of yourpodcast which was really great.
But that's where I'm centering,really diving into midlife.
April Snow (31:39):
I love that you're allowing these milestones to
influence your reading.
I remember seeing you postabout that and, having turned 42
years now, that felt reallymeaningful.
Oh, this is such an intentionalway to dive into your own
experience, your personalprocess, through books and
finding stories like yours thatjust really mark this moment.
(32:01):
I'm wondering could you sharewith listeners how you decided
what to read for that 40th year?
How did you make that decision?
Sure, so I started with themost basic 40 things to do
before you turn 40.
Dorothy Meyer (32:11):
Year.
How did you make that decision?
Sure, so I started with themost basic 40 things to do
before you turn 40.
Perfect, yeah, that's acompilation of essays from
different people celebrities,authors, things like that.
And aside from that I did somecrowdsourcing.
So on Bookstagram I crowdsourcefor any titles people might
think fall into it.
I have found it much easier topick nonfiction titles.
(32:32):
I don't know why I've just beendrawn to nonfiction for this.
It's been a little bit more ofa struggle to find fiction
titles, but I have had a coupleof good recommendations from
friends, a book they read andrealized that the characters
were at that stage in their life.
So those have been the mainways just doing a little bit of
research, even just tagging theword 40 and seeing what comes up
(32:54):
in book titles, and then askingmy friends, pulling some
nonfiction titles that werealready on my radar.
April Snow (33:01):
That's smart, you know, leaning on your community,
because not every book that'sabout that decade or being 40 is
going to have it in the title.
And I remember 40, my 40thbirthday, being felt like.
Obviously I don't know whatit's going to be like going
forward, but it felt like themost pivotal birthday so far.
Dorothy Meyer (33:17):
Yeah, definitely.
April Snow (33:18):
Yeah, like 30 is important, but it felt more
light hearted where 40 wasserious.
Okay, now it's time to figurethings out, to make any shifts
before it's too late.
Dorothy Meyer (33:29):
What you're saying really resonates with me,
because that's how it felt forme too.
There's a gravity to it, and italso felt like this chance to
redefine myself, and I justreally felt this energy of a
catalyst for change behind thebirthday, more than I ever felt
with another one.
April Snow (33:44):
Yeah, I felt that too.
I'm wondering, as we start towrap up, if you could share one
message with HSP listeners.
What would you want them tohear before we go?
Dorothy Meyer (33:53):
I would say lean into your support system.
I'm definitely someone whotends to isolate and as long as
I'm taking care of everyone else, no one needs to know what I
need.
But it's important to havethose people that you can trust
and I would say, if you're in ajob that offers FMLA, that you
should take it if you think youcan trust.
And I would say if you're in ajob that offers FMLA, that you
should take it if you think youneed it.
I think there's this tendencyto believe that it's for other
(34:16):
people who really need it.
But, coming from the HR space,if you think you need it, then
trust yourself.
It's there for a reason, so useit if you need it.
April Snow (34:26):
Yeah, look and see what resources are available and
lean into those.
Dorothy Meyer (34:30):
Yeah, and I think beyond that.
Just follow your heart and yourintuition.
I'm more of a thinker.
I've not always been in tunewith my feelings, but it's there
and you have to trust it.
April Snow (34:41):
Yeah, you really do, dorothy.
Thank you so much for today,for sharing your story and your
love of reading with us.
I really appreciated everythingthat you shared and I'll be
sure to share your website, yoursocial media, your other
resources in the show notes.
You've put together a reallyfabulous HSP reading list for us
which I'm really excited for,and not just the typical titles
(35:03):
but stories that are telling HSPstories indirectly, which I
think is beautiful For folks whoare local to New Jersey or
they're visiting the Blackwoodarea.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about Wren's Coffeehouse?
Dorothy Meyer (35:16):
and Books?
Yes, definitely so.
Again, thank you so much forhaving me.
It was such a pleasure to dothis podcast and Wren's
Coffeehouse and Books.
We are located in Blackwood,new Jersey.
It's a suburb of Philadelphia.
On the one side you'll find ourcoffee house and then on the
other side is the bookstore.
So we have a curated selectionof new and used books, as well
(35:37):
as local authors, local artists,some bookish goods and other
crafts that locals have createdin the store we opened in June
of 2024.
It's been really exciting goingfirst year.
In addition to the coffee shopand the bookstore, we host
events, so we've had open micnight, game night, writers club,
(35:59):
book club lots of fun thingsgoing on.
April Snow (36:02):
I was so honored to visit when I was back home on
the East Coast and it's exactlylike you described.
It's like this community hub somany great books, local authors
, a lot of cute gifts in thestore.
I just remember being like, wow, you guys have a great
selection.
And then just passing throughto the coffee shop and all the
delicious drinks and treats andit just felt really warm and
(36:23):
welcoming because we got to sitand chat for a little while in
the chairs by the front window,I was like this feels like a
second home.
I don't know, it just feltreally welcoming.
So I just appreciated being ona visit.
Dorothy Meyer (36:33):
Yeah, thank you so much for stopping in.
I'm so glad you felt that way.
It's been really great, thecommunity has been really great,
so we'd love to see anyonewho's local to the Philadelphia
area and otherwise.
You can keep up with us onsocial media and our website.
Beautiful Thanks, dorothy.
Yeah, thank you so much, april.
April Snow (36:59):
Thanks so much for joining me and Dorothy for
today's conversation.
I hope you remember that it'sokay to lean into your resources
and your support system whenyou're feeling burned out or
dissatisfied.
I also hope you'll feelinspired to carve out more time
for reading or whatever lightsyou up.
Start your day with that.
If you're an avid reader andbook lover, sign up for Wren's
(37:23):
Coffeehouse and Books mailinglist for book news and local
events.
You can also stop into the shopif you're in the Blackwood, new
Jersey area.
Links for these resources arein the Blackwood, new Jersey
area.
Links for these resources arein the show notes, along with a
suggested HSP reading listcurated by Dorothy.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(37:45):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening you.
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