April 15, 2025 • 44 mins
Are you getting enough time for what you love? In this episode, I talk with Brian Zirngible, LMFT about balancing your career and creative passions as an HSP and:
• Regulating overwhelm and burnout with music, breathwork, and movement
• Finding time for what nourishes you through boundaries and communication
• How improv can support HSPs in being more flexible and resilient
Brian is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist with a solo private practice in St. Paul, Minnesota. Brian specializes in supporting highly sensitive men, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs and athletes by turning pain into possibility. As an actively working musician and artist himself, Brian understands the unique challenges of the entertainment industry and the pressures of many unrealistic expectations and soul-crushing deadlines. Brian offers hope, healing and support for highly sensitive and creative men who are stuck, lost and who are searching for renewed purpose and more balance in their lives.
Keep in touch with Brian:
• Website: http://brianzirngible.com
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brianzirngiblelmft
Resources Mentioned:
• Highly Sensitive Person by Dr. Elaine Aron: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780553062182
Thanks for listening! You can read the full show notes and sign up for my email list to get new episode announcements and other resources at:
https://www.sensitivestories.com
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Zirngible (00:00):
Always in the back of my head, too, is my
energy.
Time is energy, and I only havea limited amount of that.
So structuring boundaries, mytime, my days, my weeks If I
don't have the energy, I can'tperform like I want to.
April Snow (00:23):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:45):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withBrian Zirngable about balancing
your career and creativepassions as an HSP, regulating
your emotions with music, andthe importance of boundaries and
communication to preventoverwhelm.
Brian is a licensed marriageand family therapist with a solo
private practice in St Paul,minnesota.
(01:06):
Brian specializes in supportinghighly sensitive men, artists,
musicians, entrepreneurs andathletes by turning pain into
possibility.
As an actively working musicianand artist himself, brian
understands the uniquechallenges of the entertainment
industry and the pressures ofmany unrealistic expectations
and soul-crushing deadlines.
(01:27):
Brian offers hope, healing andsupport for highly sensitive and
creative men who are stuck lostand who are searching for a new
purpose and more balance intheir lives.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
(01:47):
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
(02:19):
Hi Brian, welcome to thepodcast.
I'm so excited to chat with youtoday.
Brian Zirngible (02:30):
April, thank you so much for having me.
I love your vibe and yourmessage.
I've been following you andhashtag stalking you for a while
now.
It's so awesome to finally meetyou on video and in the audio
world.
April Snow (02:45):
So, yeah, I feel like we have been friends for so
long but have never actuallymet, which is just lovely.
Brian Zirngible (02:52):
Just a community from afar yeah, a
supportive community, and youknow shared values, shared
thoughts and ideas aboutspecific and and other things,
so this is very good.
April Snow (03:06):
Yeah, this is.
It's lovely to take this alittle deeper.
So, because we're just startingto get to know each other more
in this way, I really do want tohear your HSP discovery story,
if you can remember how or whenyou realized that you're an HSP.
Brian Zirngible (03:22):
I've thought about this several times and in
different ways, and it just kindof struck me when I was a young
kid that I always felt sad oremotional about.
If someone else was hurting orif I saw something happen to an
animal, I would just feel likeawful and really take it hard
(03:46):
and personal, and even withconstructive criticism I would
always just feel like, you know,take it very hard and that
would be tough for me.
So, gosh, grade school, justthose feelings.
But I didn't know what it meant.
I knew that I felt differentand was noticing other students
(04:08):
and my classmates and kids notreally feeling or acting the way
I did when those thingshappened.
So it was kind of a gradualdiscovery, but I didn't name it
until maybe five, six years ago.
Then I was like aha, light bulb, what the heck?
April Snow (04:27):
so yeah, yes, yes, that is such a relatable
progression of you knewsomething was different.
You're so empathetic and aware.
I remember feeling that way tooof like if someone would be
doing something to an animalthat was maybe a little rough, I
would really have a strongreaction, where other kids would
(04:48):
think it was funny, but yeah,and then it clicks into place
later.
Brian Zirngible (04:54):
Yeah, hopped into my universe but I knew that
was like quite powerful.
To just look at the book,glance through the book, devour
the book, understand theconnection there and you know.
(05:17):
Finally just put the book outon our coffee table for my wife
to read and that was herintroduction, more or less to
like this is an identifiablething.
This is, you know, nameable andit has a name and it's
definable.
It's not just me being weirdand quirky and different, but
(05:40):
it's an actual thing.
So the education of you know,my wife and people around me my
parents, friends, bandmates,colleagues.
It was just kind of this gradualprogression of educating those
around me.
April Snow (05:56):
Yeah, that's such a good point because it's not just
your own self-discovery.
It's then okay.
Now I need to communicate thiswith everyone that's close to me
.
Brian Zirngible (06:13):
Yeah, discovery it's then okay.
Now I need to communicate thiswith everyone that's close to me
.
Yeah, I use that coffee tablestory with a lot of my clients
that are are married to someoneor with someone who is not
highly sensitive, and so thatjust that self-discovery and
then educating those around usis just kind of a pivotal point
in a lot of differentrelationships.
So I just found it very helpful.
April Snow (06:29):
Yeah, so your wife is not an HSP.
Brian Zirngible (06:33):
Not as much as me.
She's sensitive in many andcertain ways, but not probably
as intense or as frequent as Ifeel sensitive and we talk about
it a lot in our house and I'mcourageous enough to speak to it
and name it and say, hey, I'mbeing really sensitive right now
(06:54):
, helpful for us, but yeah it'sjust an open ticket item in our
house, so that's really helpfuland supportive.
April Snow (07:02):
It is.
It does help my wife and I talkabout.
She's also an HSP, so we havekind of a concentration, but we
talk about it a lot it's so.
I mean, for me it's veryfreeing that it can be part of
our regular everydayconversations, right?
Instead of needing to putyourself in a box or try to hide
it away or act like somethingdoesn't bother you, like we can
(07:23):
just let it fully out.
Brian Zirngible (07:33):
Yeah, to hide it away or act like something
doesn't bother you, like we canjust let it fully out.
Yeah, and I know one of thepieces in in the highly
sensitive person book by elaineI think it was maybe the last
paragraph.
Maybe she said even thoughwe're highly sensitive people,
we still need to do hard things.
We can do things that aren'tcomfortable for us.
We can do them.
That's always in my head.
April Snow (07:52):
Yeah.
Brian Zirngible (07:53):
Yeah.
April Snow (07:53):
That's it, right Cause I I try to hold onto that
too, because I don't want togive, I don't want to live a
life that's not interesting orwhere I don't get to do what I
want to do or I challenge myself.
You know, I like going to liveconcerts and I like traveling
and I like pushing myself toshow up for the community.
(08:13):
So, yeah, we can have more ofthat.
We don't have to hide away andbe a reclusive person.
Brian Zirngible (08:18):
You like to go to live concerts?
Oh, what are you doing?
This Friday night, april, I'llbe in Minnesota.
Come to see my ball.
April Snow (08:28):
I know, I know I want to.
I really do, because live musicis literally my favorite form
of self-care Regulate.
It's what lights me up the most.
I love it just so much, so I'mreally excited that we're
talking today.
Brian Zirngible (08:42):
Your favorite song is Regulate.
I like it.
April Snow (08:45):
Do you have a song called Regulate?
Brian Zirngible (08:47):
No, that's Warren G.
April Snow (08:48):
Oh, Warren G.
Brian Zirngible (08:51):
We live in California, come on.
April Snow (08:53):
I know I'm writing it down.
I have to put it on after thisconversation.
I'm putting it on my HSPplaylist.
Brian Zirngible (09:01):
That's awesome.
April Snow (09:02):
Yeah, exactly that's what we need, right?
So I do want to talk to youmore about that, because you're
a therapist you've mentioned,you know alluded to that and
you're a working musician.
Can you tell me more about,like, how those two fit together
, how long you've been doingeach of those?
So?
Brian Zirngible (09:21):
I've been playing music.
I I started trombone bandlessons in fifth grade and then
grade school, high school thatplayed in college jazz bands.
We were in Mexico with ourcollege jazz band, st Mary's
University in Winona, met mycurrent bandmate, j-bell, and we
(09:46):
started an acoustic pop duo andstarted playing at coffee shops
, bars, libraries, anniversaryparties, you name it.
We played everywhere.
And so having to deal with allof the financials, the travel,
the logistics of all of thatstuff, booking gigs, and so that
experience kind of solidifiedwell, I want to do, I want to
(10:07):
keep doing this on the side, asa part-time thing.
I didn't think I could reallymake it professionally as that's
my gig and so I always knew Iloved people, interested,
curious about people and, youknow, social I can't even
(10:27):
remember the name of mybachelor's degree, it was so
long ago, uh, not social studies.
But yeah, sociology yeah yeah,so in that realm yep in the
therapy realm therapy, Therapyrealm, cultural stuff,
anthropology Always fascinatingand curious.
(10:49):
And then got my master's degreeat St Mary's up here in the
Twin Cities for marriage andfamily therapy.
Got licensed, worked fordifferent agencies, group of
practice and now solo privatepractice here in St.
April Snow (11:03):
Paul.
So you've gone through all thedifferent steps.
So you realize, okay, I lovemusic, I love playing,
performing you still do, but itdoes sound.
You mentioned the logistics.
That sounds like a lot for anHSP and I know HSPs do that full
time.
But I just think about, likeAlanis Morissette, for instance.
(11:26):
She's kind of like the mostobvious because she talks about
sensitivity.
She's been, she's worked withElaine.
She talks about how hard thatis on an HSP.
So was that part of it?
Do you find it difficult tomanage the stimulation or the
rigorous schedules of that, oris it more?
I just have this other love.
Brian Zirngible (11:47):
To be fair, Alanis Morissette has a manager.
April Snow (11:50):
Right.
Brian Zirngible (11:51):
There are people who take care of all that
stuff.
April Snow (11:54):
Exactly, you're doing, it all right.
Brian Zirngible (11:58):
Yeah, I mean more or less a total kind of DIY
, independent kind of stuff, butI still have to see that
documentary and it's calledSensitivity, right?
April Snow (12:09):
Sensitive yeah.
Brian Zirngible (12:11):
Featuring Alanis Morissette.
Yeah, I mean, in college wejust kind of went with the flow.
Maybe I had more energy, ohyeah, and stupidity.
April Snow (12:22):
Yes.
Brian Zirngible (12:26):
What's naivete?
April Snow (12:27):
about it, naivete, yep.
Brian Zirngible (12:28):
Like it'll be fine.
Oh gosh, I'm so tired, I'mgoing to take a nap.
Yes, I'm getting up and doingit all over again.
As I've gotten older, my energylevel's gotten down.
I'm learning to block off thecalendar.
If we have a gig on a nighthere, I'm going to block the
next day off.
I don't know I've done two,three, four gig nights in a row
(12:53):
while working the therapy joband it just doesn't work for me
anymore.
April Snow (12:57):
Yeah, that's a lot yeah.
Brian Zirngible (12:59):
And a lot of my clients are doing the same
thing.
And a lot of my clients aredoing the same thing.
They're gigging, logistics,scheduling, booking, DIY kind of
stuff.
And so we have a simpatico weunderstand where each other's
are coming from.
April Snow (13:19):
That's kind of nice too.
So you work with a lot ofsensitive musicians, would you
say.
Brian Zirngible (13:25):
I do.
April Snow (13:26):
Yeah, you get each other.
Brian Zirngible (13:28):
It's my specialty niche.
April Snow (13:30):
Yes, yes.
Brian Zirngible (13:32):
Love it.
April Snow (13:33):
Yeah, so you understand the world and the
struggles that they're upagainst.
Brian Zirngible (13:38):
Most of it.
I mean, there's nuances that Imight not understand and I will
be fully open and honest withthem.
They might be in a full-touring, full-time band that is touring
internationally.
I've never really done thatpiece of it before, but I can
certainly meet them wherethey're at.
(13:59):
As far as balancing home life,work life, touring, rotation,
boundaries oh my God, boundaries.
April Snow (14:07):
Boundaries yes.
Brian Zirngible (14:12):
Can you say a little bit?
April Snow (14:13):
more about why that's so important.
As a musician, I would like to.
Brian Zirngible (14:16):
Yeah, I know it's weird, but Ashton Kutcher
is an entrepreneur now and heowns a business is an
entrepreneur now and he owns abusiness, and I read something
where he would do what he neededto do first, right away in the
morning and send out his stuff,and then he would look at things
(14:37):
that were sent to him and Ijust that's always in the back
of my head too is my time isenergy, and I only have a
limited amount of that.
So just structuring boundaries,my time my days, my weeks.
If I don't have the energy, Ican't perform.
I can't perform like I want to.
(14:59):
I've had performances where I'membarrassed about how I felt
during the show, and so I don'twant that ever to happen again.
April Snow (15:11):
Yeah, it's hard.
Brian Zirngible (15:13):
Very hard yeah.
April Snow (15:15):
Because you're doing two things that take a lot of
energy, a lot of emotionalenergy, you know, supporting
clients and showing up on stage.
And I just think about going toa concert and just how much
musician puts in.
I don't know that personally,but just witnessing it, feeling
it.
That's a lot that you're givingof yourself.
I do want to talk about how youbalance that.
(15:37):
But first I'm just curious ifyou're open to sharing.
When you say you feltembarrassed about how you felt,
I guess I don't understand thatas a non-musician.
Would you be open to sharing alittle bit more about what you
mean by that?
Brian Zirngible (15:50):
I think during the performance I'm thinking
about, I felt grumpy because Iwas tired and I didn't get
enough rest earlier in the day,that I typically need to feel
more energetic for a show.
April Snow (16:08):
Right.
Brian Zirngible (16:09):
And knowing that I couldn't, and for some
reason I couldn't bounce backquick enough before I hit the
stage and I was just kind offeeling a bit raw and agitated
while during the show.
Maybe there was a point duringthe show where I felt lighter
and lifted and I kind of shookit off, but the beginning of
that show I wasn't happy with.
(16:30):
So, yeah, I've just learnedthroughout the years to give
myself plenty of time to rest,yes, nurture myself and my
energy and hydrate and all thoseself-care things before a
performance so does that makesense?
April Snow (16:51):
Yeah, because you're not showing up as your best
self or the self that you wantto.
Yeah, I'm just thinking aboutthat general feeling of an
agitated and my you know, I feelkind of like my nerves are a
little raw and that's hardenough, but then to get up on a
stage in front of people that'sso vulnerable.
Brian Zirngible (17:11):
Yeah, and it is .
But I also am aware of that.
I can put on a face and make ittill I make it and do that
whole thing.
But inside I know what's goingon and I'm not happy with that
deep feeling of disappointmentin myself.
April Snow (17:32):
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense because only we
know how we feel and otherpeople don't notice that nuance
of like, oh, that person isn'tshowing up 90, 100, whatever it
is, but we feel it, we know ityeah, it's so relatable most of
the time I give, you know, 98,but that time I was probably
(17:56):
giving 79, so yeah, right, andisn't it interesting that I mean
, I feel this, I hear this frommy clients that even 79 isn't
good enough, right, and?
And oftentimes our 79 isprobably closer to someone
else's 100, doesn't put so muchin.
But yeah, we're hard onourselves and we care about what
(18:18):
we're doing.
Brian Zirngible (18:19):
You're not talking about perfectionism, are
you what?
April Snow (18:25):
What is that?
I don't know anything aboutthat Come on now.
Now, it's true, it creeps ineverywhere.
Cheers.
Brian Zirngible (18:34):
Thank you, I almost have that same coffee mug
.
April Snow (18:38):
Oh, do you?
I love this one.
Yes, it's so pretty.
Brian Zirngible (18:42):
Made by a therapist friend of mine.
April Snow (18:44):
Oh, maybe I've seen that.
Oh, potentially, I'm not surethat rings a bell for me.
Brian Zirngible (18:52):
Yeah, I don't know Anywho.
April Snow (18:56):
Yeah, anywho, yeah, anywho.
So it sounds like you have tobe really intentional about just
having enough energy to show upin these two worlds as your
therapist self and as yourmusician self.
I'm just wondering about thathow do you manage, you know,
playing both of those partsbecause, like I said, they both
take a lot of you.
Do you ever feel like they'recompeting or it's hard to hold
(19:17):
both?
Brian Zirngible (19:18):
It feels like most of the time I'm able to
balance the two and after a dayof seeing clients and I know I
have a gig that same night partof me is tired and you know,
processing the day of therapyand part of me is really excited
(19:39):
to get on stage and playtrombone and sing and get that
energy out.
That's one of my self-carenecessities is moving my body
yes breathing and singing andplaying trombone.
That's a lot of breath work yeahI am practicing breath work as
I'm performing and dancing andperforming.
(20:00):
I was born a performer, so Ijust love performing for folks.
April Snow (20:07):
And that is yeah, I don't.
Brian Zirngible (20:09):
I would have to do something else creatively if
I worked in a band andperforming if I were a therapist
you know what I mean?
April Snow (20:19):
yes, absolutely right, because there's so many
things you're doing that areregulating, releasing on stage
the breath work, the movements,the joy, right, everything.
Brian Zirngible (20:33):
Yeah, it makes sense that that's the joy
happens only when I'm performingperfectly.
April Snow (20:41):
So ah, yes, that perfectionism again it's gotta
be at least above 79 yeah, soit's important, then, for you to
make sure that you can show upas best you can.
Brian Zirngible (20:55):
Yeah, for sure.
And there's going to be offnights.
There's going to be nights Idon't perform like.
I would have hoped.
But, I'm doing the best I canand not intentionally trying to
mess up or anything.
April Snow (21:11):
Sure, how do you sit with those nights when you have
given 79% or less and maybeyou're not feeling great?
How do you?
Brian Zirngible (21:21):
take care of yourself.
After that, I try to have avery short memory for those
moments and those nights that Ijust don't feel like I nailed it
.
Yeah so, but literally movingmy body, getting on the bike,
pumping some weights, freeweights, going for a three mile
walk and just listening to othermusic besides.
(21:44):
That really helps kind ofsettle me and kind of ground me.
And even talking through thatstuff with my wife, just like I
just really really did not do ittonight, and having her support
is always helpful.
April Snow (22:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good reminder that it's okay.
Brian Zirngible (22:05):
Yeah.
April Snow (22:05):
It's okay to have off nights.
Brian Zirngible (22:07):
Shout out to my wife.
April Snow (22:08):
Yes, shout out to your wife what's your wife's
first name.
Brian Zirngible (22:12):
Angie.
April Snow (22:13):
Shout out to Angie what's up, Angie?
You two seem like such a strongteam.
Brian Zirngible (22:20):
Steam Like a strong team A steam.
Yeah, she's great, we balanceeach other out and I just, yeah,
I love what we have together.
April Snow (22:31):
Yeah, it's really beautiful.
I mean just seeing photos andhearing stories.
It seems like you yeah, you twoare really strong and it's
important to have that supportwhere you can talk through
things and just a reminder thatit's okay.
Just an off night.
Brian Zirngible (22:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's soothing to know that she's
there and we can talk throughstuff.
April Snow (22:51):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
So when you're on those walks,what kind of music are you
listening to if you're open tosharing?
Yeah, a little pumping up.
Brian Zirngible (23:03):
Electronic dance music.
That's my jam.
Dub dubstep, dub reggae.
April Snow (23:10):
Oh yeah.
Brian Zirngible (23:11):
Man, yeah, dance music is kind of where my
heart is, and yeah, dance musicis kind of where my heart is I
listen.
I follow a lot of different DJsand styles of that kind of
stuff.
April Snow (23:24):
I love it.
Brian Zirngible (23:26):
It just oh.
April Snow (23:29):
Yeah, it's so freeing right, Just like letting
that energy out and kind ofjust instantly shift your mood.
It's pretty incredible.
Brian Zirngible (23:35):
Yeah.
April Snow (23:36):
Yeah, moving the body, blood flowing.
Yes, I mean I really say so.
When I was 18, I had somefriends.
They introduced me to the ravescene and I really think that
dance was my first form oftherapy before I ever knew
anything about therapy or didany of my own work.
It would I, I mean it reallysaved me.
(23:57):
So I can resonate with that.
You know that type of music andjust the need for music and
self-care or however you want toput it.
Absolutely, it's reallypowerful.
Yeah, yeah.
Brian Zirngible (24:10):
Something about that beat matching their
heartbeat and just moving thebody.
April Snow (24:17):
It's so primal.
I can remember just feeling thegoing through my body and it's
like, oh, it's really visceral.
Brian Zirngible (24:25):
Yes, you have to meet at uh coachella or
burning man sometime there we goright dancing out.
April Snow (24:35):
I love the things that you're sharing today.
You know, like you said,working out, or you know,
putting on dance music orperforming.
It really goes back to thesethings that maybe you wouldn't
expect an HSP to do, which itreally excites me.
You might think, oh, an HSP isgoing to listen to kind of
gentle, soft music or be behindthe scenes, but we can, yeah, we
can show up in these, maybesome more intense ways sometimes
(24:57):
or, you know, be at theforefront.
It's just about having thatbalance off the stage or behind
the scenes.
I just appreciate that kind ofundertone of the story that
you're sharing.
Brian Zirngible (25:10):
Yeah, and I mean, don't get me wrong there's
days when I want complete andwant and need complete silence,
or you know the sound of gentlewaves crashing against the the
shore.
But then there's other moments.
I need gangster rap and I needyou know stuff in my ears right
(25:31):
now yes, right that kind ofdichotomy and that that balance
is interesting definitely right.
April Snow (25:39):
Like yeah, you need variety, yes, to match your mood
yep I'm a music mood matcheryeah right, there's always.
I know there's always a songright to fit the mood.
Brian Zirngible (25:55):
It's the beauty of music well, I used to own a
wedding business with my with.
J Bell my bandmate friend andfor 10 years I would DJ weddings
and just feel the room.
I knew what worked, what didn'tand just kind of felt the vibe
of it and that's kind of, youknow, music fitting the mood.
April Snow (26:15):
I love that.
Yeah, what a great position foran HSP where you can kind of
just flow with what's happeningin the space around you.
Brian Zirngible (26:27):
Well, certain moments.
April Snow (26:28):
Certain moments yeah .
Brian Zirngible (26:30):
Could fit for an HSP.
But after 10 years I was like Ican't do this anymore.
April Snow (26:36):
Yeah, what was the hardest part for you about that?
Brian Zirngible (26:41):
The demanding nature of the gig and the
business, and some of the guests.
April Snow (26:52):
Sure Right, the interpersonal parts could be
really challenging.
People are aggressive.
They want to hear certain songsright now.
They imagine they'reintoxicated.
Yep yeah that part's not sogreat All of that.
Brian Zirngible (27:07):
Yeah, all of it , it was great while it lasted,
and it's over now.
Yeah, it's over.
April Snow (27:13):
Were you doing that, and also during your time as a
therapist as well?
Brian Zirngible (27:17):
Yes, Okay, okay , that makes sense yeah.
So, you're a therapist, weddingbusiness owner and band stuff.
April Snow (27:29):
You do it all.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's great.
I think as therapists we needneed something else I'm a big
fan of that just to nurturedifferent parts of ourselves or
have things just come to fullcircle.
You know, in a moment the workwe do is so drawn out and
(27:52):
long-term and elusive.
So so to go on stage, do a gig,finish it, go home and just
have that sense of completion, Iwould imagine is a nice
alternative to the therapy world.
Brian Zirngible (28:05):
It is yeah, especially when I'm performing
well.
April Snow (28:08):
So that's even better.
That's the key, yeah.
Brian Zirngible (28:13):
Yeah, and getting that.
You know, typically gettingthat paycheck right away at the
end of the night is always nicetoo.
April Snow (28:20):
That's nice too, right?
Yes, for sure.
So you mentioned performing.
Really to do it well, you needto be rested, recharge and be
your best self there so you canshow up a hundred you know,
close to a hundred percent.
You can bring the energy thatyou want to bring.
But I'm sure there are manytimes that that's not available.
Maybe you're overwhelmed,you're burned out.
(28:42):
It's been a tough client day,since you're often doing games
after client days, which isphenomenal to me.
But I know it's a good release.
But I'm just wondering how areyou balancing those times when
you are super overwhelmed?
How are you managing through,through those?
Brian Zirngible (28:56):
I never really used to be a napper, take naps I
don't.
I don't ever remember takingnaps in college or even
immediately after college, butthey've been really miraculous
for me.
Over the last few years Inoticed that when I and I'm a
napper where I can nap for 15,20 minutes hard, completely shut
(29:22):
down for 15, 20, and get up andbe like let's go Okay.
April Snow (29:28):
Wow.
Brian Zirngible (29:29):
So that's been helpful.
That's a really great tool thatI think might be underrated,
but I know that not everyonetakes to naps that well.
Some people need two hours tocompletely shut down and
recharge, but I can do it in 15or 20, and that will help me,
(29:53):
but just some kind oftransitional something.
I'm a big hygiene person, so ifI'm working as a therapist.
During the day, I need toshower and or clean myself of
the day before I jump on stagesomehow.
You know, I've got cleaningwipes and deodorant and cologne
(30:19):
and just things to change it upfrom work day to I'm performing
now so that transitional stuffis really helpful for me yes, so
important yeah yeah likethere's something about
showering off the energy of theday.
April Snow (30:35):
I mean, for me it's so essential Like I just need
that switch as well, like okay.
I'm letting that go.
It's also very regulating to bein the shower.
It's a good chamber to processand let go of things.
Brian Zirngible (30:48):
Oh yeah.
April Snow (30:49):
Yeah, it's great.
Brian Zirngible (30:50):
I've written so many songs in the shower.
April Snow (30:52):
Oh, right yeah.
Brian Zirngible (30:58):
Watching the day go down the drain is is nice
for me.
Oh, that's a song idea I know Iwas.
April Snow (31:01):
That's great.
Copyright primes are able yeah,watching the day go down the
drain.
It's so poetic because that'struly what feels like it's
happening just just releasing it, no, letting it go.
And if you can't shower, I lovethis symbolic cleansing maybe
doing something else instead.
Brian Zirngible (31:23):
Yeah.
Just create a shift Coconutwipes.
April Snow (31:27):
Coconut wipes.
Brian Zirngible (31:29):
Yeah, cleansing coconut wipes.
Made of coconut or smellinglike coconut Hygienic coconut
scented wipes.
April Snow (31:38):
Oh, I like this.
Brian Zirngible (31:39):
Yeah, they're like baby wipes, but for adult
musicians.
I just made that up, I don'tknow.
Did you know, I also dostand-up comedy.
April Snow (31:52):
I did not know.
I'm seeing that now.
Brian Zirngible (31:54):
I'm just starting now, are you really?
No, but I love comedy.
April Snow (31:56):
I'm seeing that now.
Brian Zirngible (31:57):
I'm just starting now, are you really?
April Snow (31:59):
No, but I love comedy.
Brian Zirngible (32:00):
That is a very popular thing.
April Snow (32:02):
Do you ever tell jokes or stories on stage?
Brian Zirngible (32:04):
I used to back in the other group that I was in
, but currently the group thatI'm in doesn't really cater to
that type of performance.
Got it that type of performance.
So got it, got it.
We just, we all love and enjoyand appreciate comedy, stand-up,
improv.
Yes, yeah, improv comedy forsure helps me kind of transition
(32:28):
.
Therapist, musician, performertoo.
April Snow (32:32):
So can you say more?
What do you?
I?
Brian Zirngible (32:34):
I don't know much about improv, so I'm just
curious what you mean, like howthat helps or that looks like I
mean, even with this interviewthat we're doing, I'm doing some
improv stuff, thinking off thetop of my head, that's true.
I'm gonna put ideas andshifting and moving.
As therapists we have to dothat all the time.
(32:55):
Really, we don't know whatstory our client might share,
how we're going to react to it.
I truly believe that therapistsshould be trained in a little
bit of improv, improv comedy.
Sprinkle some humor in with thetherapy process so it's not so
heavy all the time yes, such agood regulator right to have a
(33:19):
moment of levity or just a shift?
yeah, absolutely, and learningthe timing of that too, like
when can you, should yousprinkle a joke in?
April Snow (33:30):
maybe not let's wait you know, but and on performing
in the band too, there'smoments of levity and humor and
stuff too that we kind of, butyeah I don't know, I just I feel
like improv is such a wonderfultool that we all could use
truly I mean as hsps, especiallyright when we often struggle
(33:52):
with those transitions or theunexpected as you're talking
about.
It just feels like a little bitlight, like it's a little bit
of a moving bridge to help meget from one thing to the next.
Can't quite describe it, but Icould see how that would be
helpful, just to have thatmentality or that approach,
however you want to call it.
Brian Zirngible (34:11):
I like that moving bridge kind of visual.
April Snow (34:14):
That's what it feels like Like oh, I'm moving, but I
still have a bridge to help meconnect.
Brian Zirngible (34:19):
Right yeah.
April Snow (34:21):
Fascinating.
I love that.
Yeah, Improv is something I'vealways been scared of.
If I'm honest, I think I thinkof it in the kind of traditional
way where you're really I don'tknow, kind of being put on the
spot or having to be super goofy.
But I love this idea that itcould come into everyday life
and we're probably doing itnaturally.
(34:43):
We don't even realize it.
Brian Zirngible (34:45):
You're probably doing it right now.
April Snow (34:47):
Probably Because I'm just coming up with questions
off the top of my head.
Brian Zirngible (34:52):
You are?
No, you're not.
You sent them to me before weeven started.
No, I know.
April Snow (34:57):
But I've added in a bunch, I know, Just because it's
a fascinating conversation andI've known you from afar for so
long.
I'm like now's the time I canask questions.
Brian Zirngible (35:09):
Hold on, let's go.
April Snow (35:11):
No, this makes sense for an HSP, for everybody, but
especially for an HSP who mightneed that little bit of an extra
support and being flexible.
Brian Zirngible (35:19):
Yes, yeah, flexibility, resilience, flowing
with the flow not being sorigid with the flow, either
expectations or agendas that's.
It's just always kind of niceyeah, absolutely is.
April Snow (35:35):
Yeah.
So I'm very curious.
You know you're a musician inthe community where you see
clients.
Do those worlds intersect attimes, like, do you see clients
at shows or are you working?
You know being a therapist toclients you've seen on stage.
Does that, does it get a littlebit?
Does it overlap?
Brian Zirngible (35:56):
Yeah, it sometimes can and I'm very
transparent and open about thosetwo different worlds.
And, because it is my specialty, I'm still working as a
musician in the community.
I'm up front and open aboutthat.
It's on my website.
Informed consent is pretty huge, but we always talk about it
(36:19):
from the very beginning.
If an artist or a musicianreaches out to me for therapy,
we'll talk about what differentworlds we inhabit within the
music community and if there istoo much overlap within the two
of our worlds, I need to decidewhether or not it's ethical to
do that, to work with them, andwe'll just talk about it and
(36:42):
decide together.
Hey, our worlds are far enoughapart and different that I think
I would be okay seeing you as aclient.
But if our worlds are a littlebit too close and intermingled
within the different musiciansectors of the Twin Cities, then
I decide that this will notwork for us.
(37:06):
So I refer and provide a bunchof referrals for other awesome
therapists in the Twin Citiesthat work with musicians and
artists around the area too.
So it's again, it's always anopen discussion.
If we see each other out andabout happenstance, we'll talk
(37:27):
about it the next session andsee how it was for everyone and
just be really above board withthat.
April Snow (37:34):
I love it.
It sounds like this kind ofcollaborative boundary setting
where you join with the clientand just see, you know, does it
make sense to work together ornot?
And if we do, when we bump intoeach other, what does that look
like?
And just talking about that upfront, such a good lesson.
Brian Zirngible (37:53):
I'll avoid you.
We both might be drinkingalcohol if we're at the same
show.
We might be on First Avenue orsomething, and I might be with
my wife, I might be with friends, and so we'll just talk about
it without shame orembarrassment.
April Snow (38:15):
Great.
You're a therapist, but you'realso a human and a fellow
musician.
Brian Zirngible (38:17):
I think that's really yeah, I don't know, just
normalizing, like you get tohave your life and you may be
seen out in the world outside ofthe therapy room I do think
that that is one of the reasonswhy a lot of the the male
musicians reach out to me isbecause I just I'm part of the
scene that they're in and theyknow that I get it yes.
(38:39):
So to feel validated and justnormalizing those kind of unique
challenges is good for them.
So, but then we just have thediscussion about you know, will
our worlds collide andintermingle?
More so than not, and are weall okay with that?
April Snow (38:57):
Yeah, yeah, like you said, going back to that
informed consent, yeah, yeah,and it's so important to be to
work with someone whounderstands you, maybe looks or
looks like you do, or has hassimilar experiences.
I imagine that the sensitivemen you work with have a similar
experience like oh, you get it.
Brian Zirngible (39:19):
I only, I only work with men that that look
like me.
I know they came across weird Iwas just meeting with a
colleague and I, and I remindedher I was like you know.
I do like to say I am my ownideal client.
Oh, truly Right, Absolutelytrue they have to wear a jean
(39:41):
shirt and wear the wild thingson a t-shirt.
April Snow (39:45):
I thought, yep, it has to be that specific.
I thought that's what yourshirt said, but I wasn't sure
it's confirmed now.
Oh, let's get a visual.
Brian Zirngible (39:56):
There we go a new thrift store find oh, I love
it.
April Snow (40:03):
That's really good.
No, it's.
It's so important to yeah to tobe understood you feel heard is
when the healing starts.
Brian Zirngible (40:18):
Someone else said that.
I don't know who, but I'mquoting someone else.
April Snow (40:22):
So true, to feel heard is when the healing starts
.
Absolutely true, could be asong.
Could totally be a song.
Yes, we have a couple songscoming out of this conversation
today.
Brian Zirngible (40:36):
It knows.
April Snow (40:39):
Well, Brian, this has been a really lovely
conversation.
I wanted to see if there's anyfinal thoughts before we start
to wrap up.
Brian Zirngible (40:47):
I thank you for your time and for inviting me
on to Sensitive Stories podcast.
It's been a real pleasure.
April Snow (40:54):
It has.
Brian Zirngible (40:55):
I guess if anyone listening is curious
about their sensitivity or theirpartner's sensitivity, just to
explore that a little bit andkind of look into the dynamics
of what that means learn a bitabout it, be gentle with
yourself and or with your lovedone.
(41:16):
If you know someone and just Idon't know, educate yourself
about stuff and how highlysensitivity shows up within
people and even out in thecommunity too.
It's fascinating to realizethat 20 percent of us are hsp
(41:37):
and, yes, I remind myself ofthat sometimes.
Yeah out of five people youknow are highly sensitive.
So, yeah, you're not alone I'mnot alone.
I'm not alone, you are notalone.
April Snow (41:52):
Yeah yeah, it not alone.
Brian Zirngible (41:53):
I'm not alone, you are not alone.
April Snow (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true that you know we do make up
a larger percentage than Ithink we realize, because
sensitivity is so pushedunderground and we're pressured
to show up like non-HSPs.
But there are many of us outthere and you know.
If you realize that you aresensitive, just slide that.
Look across the coffee tablenailed it yes, yeah, yeah, it
(42:19):
can start there and I I thinkyou know.
It's such a good reminder thatlearning about our trait, who we
are as sensitive people, soessential I think really
understand yourself.
If you've noticed growing upthat you're different, you're
more empathetic or anxious or,you know, perceptive, maybe
(42:41):
there's more to it, maybe you'repart of the club.
Brian Zirngible (42:46):
Join the club.
April Snow (42:47):
Join the club.
Welcome here.
It's pretty great actually.
Brian Zirngible (42:52):
It's not bad.
Yeah, it's not bad yeah, it'snot bad.
April Snow (42:57):
I love it so much.
Well, brian, thank you so muchfor this.
This was a joyful conversation.
I really loved it.
I'll be sure to share yourwebsite, your social media, in
the show notes folks who want toreach out to you.
Yeah, I hope we'll do thisagain soon.
Brian Zirngible (43:11):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, April.
I appreciate it.
April Snow (43:13):
Of course.
Thanks so much for joining meand Brian for today's
conversation.
What I hope you'll take away isjust how important it is to
carve out time for what you loveand what fills you up, whether
that's music or another passion.
(43:34):
If you're local to Minnesotaand want to work with Brian, you
can find the link to hiswebsite in the show notes.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
(43:57):
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
Always in the back of my head, too, is my
energy.
Time is energy, and I only havea limited amount of that.
So structuring boundaries, mytime, my days, my weeks If I
don't have the energy, I can'tperform like I want to.
April Snow (00:23):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:45):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withBrian Zirngable about balancing
your career and creativepassions as an HSP, regulating
your emotions with music, andthe importance of boundaries and
communication to preventoverwhelm.
Brian is a licensed marriageand family therapist with a solo
private practice in St Paul,minnesota.
(01:06):
Brian specializes in supportinghighly sensitive men, artists,
musicians, entrepreneurs andathletes by turning pain into
possibility.
As an actively working musicianand artist himself, brian
understands the uniquechallenges of the entertainment
industry and the pressures ofmany unrealistic expectations
and soul-crushing deadlines.
(01:27):
Brian offers hope, healing andsupport for highly sensitive and
creative men who are stuck lostand who are searching for a new
purpose and more balance intheir lives.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
(01:47):
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
(02:19):
Hi Brian, welcome to thepodcast.
I'm so excited to chat with youtoday.
Brian Zirngible (02:30):
April, thank you so much for having me.
I love your vibe and yourmessage.
I've been following you andhashtag stalking you for a while
now.
It's so awesome to finally meetyou on video and in the audio
world.
April Snow (02:45):
So, yeah, I feel like we have been friends for so
long but have never actuallymet, which is just lovely.
Brian Zirngible (02:52):
Just a community from afar yeah, a
supportive community, and youknow shared values, shared
thoughts and ideas aboutspecific and and other things,
so this is very good.
April Snow (03:06):
Yeah, this is.
It's lovely to take this alittle deeper.
So, because we're just startingto get to know each other more
in this way, I really do want tohear your HSP discovery story,
if you can remember how or whenyou realized that you're an HSP.
Brian Zirngible (03:22):
I've thought about this several times and in
different ways, and it just kindof struck me when I was a young
kid that I always felt sad oremotional about.
If someone else was hurting orif I saw something happen to an
animal, I would just feel likeawful and really take it hard
(03:46):
and personal, and even withconstructive criticism I would
always just feel like, you know,take it very hard and that
would be tough for me.
So, gosh, grade school, justthose feelings.
But I didn't know what it meant.
I knew that I felt differentand was noticing other students
(04:08):
and my classmates and kids notreally feeling or acting the way
I did when those thingshappened.
So it was kind of a gradualdiscovery, but I didn't name it
until maybe five, six years ago.
Then I was like aha, light bulb, what the heck?
April Snow (04:27):
so yeah, yes, yes, that is such a relatable
progression of you knewsomething was different.
You're so empathetic and aware.
I remember feeling that way tooof like if someone would be
doing something to an animalthat was maybe a little rough, I
would really have a strongreaction, where other kids would
(04:48):
think it was funny, but yeah,and then it clicks into place
later.
Brian Zirngible (04:54):
Yeah, hopped into my universe but I knew that
was like quite powerful.
To just look at the book,glance through the book, devour
the book, understand theconnection there and you know.
(05:17):
Finally just put the book outon our coffee table for my wife
to read and that was herintroduction, more or less to
like this is an identifiablething.
This is, you know, nameable andit has a name and it's
definable.
It's not just me being weirdand quirky and different, but
(05:40):
it's an actual thing.
So the education of you know,my wife and people around me my
parents, friends, bandmates,colleagues.
It was just kind of this gradualprogression of educating those
around me.
April Snow (05:56):
Yeah, that's such a good point because it's not just
your own self-discovery.
It's then okay.
Now I need to communicate thiswith everyone that's close to me
.
Brian Zirngible (06:13):
Yeah, discovery it's then okay.
Now I need to communicate thiswith everyone that's close to me
.
Yeah, I use that coffee tablestory with a lot of my clients
that are are married to someoneor with someone who is not
highly sensitive, and so thatjust that self-discovery and
then educating those around usis just kind of a pivotal point
in a lot of differentrelationships.
So I just found it very helpful.
April Snow (06:29):
Yeah, so your wife is not an HSP.
Brian Zirngible (06:33):
Not as much as me.
She's sensitive in many andcertain ways, but not probably
as intense or as frequent as Ifeel sensitive and we talk about
it a lot in our house and I'mcourageous enough to speak to it
and name it and say, hey, I'mbeing really sensitive right now
(06:54):
, helpful for us, but yeah it'sjust an open ticket item in our
house, so that's really helpfuland supportive.
April Snow (07:02):
It is.
It does help my wife and I talkabout.
She's also an HSP, so we havekind of a concentration, but we
talk about it a lot it's so.
I mean, for me it's veryfreeing that it can be part of
our regular everydayconversations, right?
Instead of needing to putyourself in a box or try to hide
it away or act like somethingdoesn't bother you, like we can
(07:23):
just let it fully out.
Brian Zirngible (07:33):
Yeah, to hide it away or act like something
doesn't bother you, like we canjust let it fully out.
Yeah, and I know one of thepieces in in the highly
sensitive person book by elaineI think it was maybe the last
paragraph.
Maybe she said even thoughwe're highly sensitive people,
we still need to do hard things.
We can do things that aren'tcomfortable for us.
We can do them.
That's always in my head.
April Snow (07:52):
Yeah.
Brian Zirngible (07:53):
Yeah.
April Snow (07:53):
That's it, right Cause I I try to hold onto that
too, because I don't want togive, I don't want to live a
life that's not interesting orwhere I don't get to do what I
want to do or I challenge myself.
You know, I like going to liveconcerts and I like traveling
and I like pushing myself toshow up for the community.
(08:13):
So, yeah, we can have more ofthat.
We don't have to hide away andbe a reclusive person.
Brian Zirngible (08:18):
You like to go to live concerts?
Oh, what are you doing?
This Friday night, april, I'llbe in Minnesota.
Come to see my ball.
April Snow (08:28):
I know, I know I want to.
I really do, because live musicis literally my favorite form
of self-care Regulate.
It's what lights me up the most.
I love it just so much, so I'mreally excited that we're
talking today.
Brian Zirngible (08:42):
Your favorite song is Regulate.
I like it.
April Snow (08:45):
Do you have a song called Regulate?
Brian Zirngible (08:47):
No, that's Warren G.
April Snow (08:48):
Oh, Warren G.
Brian Zirngible (08:51):
We live in California, come on.
April Snow (08:53):
I know I'm writing it down.
I have to put it on after thisconversation.
I'm putting it on my HSPplaylist.
Brian Zirngible (09:01):
That's awesome.
April Snow (09:02):
Yeah, exactly that's what we need, right?
So I do want to talk to youmore about that, because you're
a therapist you've mentioned,you know alluded to that and
you're a working musician.
Can you tell me more about,like, how those two fit together
, how long you've been doingeach of those?
So?
Brian Zirngible (09:21):
I've been playing music.
I I started trombone bandlessons in fifth grade and then
grade school, high school thatplayed in college jazz bands.
We were in Mexico with ourcollege jazz band, st Mary's
University in Winona, met mycurrent bandmate, j-bell, and we
(09:46):
started an acoustic pop duo andstarted playing at coffee shops
, bars, libraries, anniversaryparties, you name it.
We played everywhere.
And so having to deal with allof the financials, the travel,
the logistics of all of thatstuff, booking gigs, and so that
experience kind of solidifiedwell, I want to do, I want to
(10:07):
keep doing this on the side, asa part-time thing.
I didn't think I could reallymake it professionally as that's
my gig and so I always knew Iloved people, interested,
curious about people and, youknow, social I can't even
(10:27):
remember the name of mybachelor's degree, it was so
long ago, uh, not social studies.
But yeah, sociology yeah yeah,so in that realm yep in the
therapy realm therapy, Therapyrealm, cultural stuff,
anthropology Always fascinatingand curious.
(10:49):
And then got my master's degreeat St Mary's up here in the
Twin Cities for marriage andfamily therapy.
Got licensed, worked fordifferent agencies, group of
practice and now solo privatepractice here in St.
April Snow (11:03):
Paul.
So you've gone through all thedifferent steps.
So you realize, okay, I lovemusic, I love playing,
performing you still do, but itdoes sound.
You mentioned the logistics.
That sounds like a lot for anHSP and I know HSPs do that full
time.
But I just think about, likeAlanis Morissette, for instance.
(11:26):
She's kind of like the mostobvious because she talks about
sensitivity.
She's been, she's worked withElaine.
She talks about how hard thatis on an HSP.
So was that part of it?
Do you find it difficult tomanage the stimulation or the
rigorous schedules of that, oris it more?
I just have this other love.
Brian Zirngible (11:47):
To be fair, Alanis Morissette has a manager.
April Snow (11:50):
Right.
Brian Zirngible (11:51):
There are people who take care of all that
stuff.
April Snow (11:54):
Exactly, you're doing, it all right.
Brian Zirngible (11:58):
Yeah, I mean more or less a total kind of DIY
, independent kind of stuff, butI still have to see that
documentary and it's calledSensitivity, right?
April Snow (12:09):
Sensitive yeah.
Brian Zirngible (12:11):
Featuring Alanis Morissette.
Yeah, I mean, in college wejust kind of went with the flow.
Maybe I had more energy, ohyeah, and stupidity.
April Snow (12:22):
Yes.
Brian Zirngible (12:26):
What's naivete?
April Snow (12:27):
about it, naivete, yep.
Brian Zirngible (12:28):
Like it'll be fine.
Oh gosh, I'm so tired, I'mgoing to take a nap.
Yes, I'm getting up and doingit all over again.
As I've gotten older, my energylevel's gotten down.
I'm learning to block off thecalendar.
If we have a gig on a nighthere, I'm going to block the
next day off.
I don't know I've done two,three, four gig nights in a row
(12:53):
while working the therapy joband it just doesn't work for me
anymore.
April Snow (12:57):
Yeah, that's a lot yeah.
Brian Zirngible (12:59):
And a lot of my clients are doing the same
thing.
And a lot of my clients aredoing the same thing.
They're gigging, logistics,scheduling, booking, DIY kind of
stuff.
And so we have a simpatico weunderstand where each other's
are coming from.
April Snow (13:19):
That's kind of nice too.
So you work with a lot ofsensitive musicians, would you
say.
Brian Zirngible (13:25):
I do.
April Snow (13:26):
Yeah, you get each other.
Brian Zirngible (13:28):
It's my specialty niche.
April Snow (13:30):
Yes, yes.
Brian Zirngible (13:32):
Love it.
April Snow (13:33):
Yeah, so you understand the world and the
struggles that they're upagainst.
Brian Zirngible (13:38):
Most of it.
I mean, there's nuances that Imight not understand and I will
be fully open and honest withthem.
They might be in a full-touring, full-time band that is touring
internationally.
I've never really done thatpiece of it before, but I can
certainly meet them wherethey're at.
(13:59):
As far as balancing home life,work life, touring, rotation,
boundaries oh my God, boundaries.
April Snow (14:07):
Boundaries yes.
Brian Zirngible (14:12):
Can you say a little bit?
April Snow (14:13):
more about why that's so important.
As a musician, I would like to.
Brian Zirngible (14:16):
Yeah, I know it's weird, but Ashton Kutcher
is an entrepreneur now and heowns a business is an
entrepreneur now and he owns abusiness, and I read something
where he would do what he neededto do first, right away in the
morning and send out his stuff,and then he would look at things
(14:37):
that were sent to him and Ijust that's always in the back
of my head too is my time isenergy, and I only have a
limited amount of that.
So just structuring boundaries,my time my days, my weeks.
If I don't have the energy, Ican't perform.
I can't perform like I want to.
(14:59):
I've had performances where I'membarrassed about how I felt
during the show, and so I don'twant that ever to happen again.
April Snow (15:11):
Yeah, it's hard.
Brian Zirngible (15:13):
Very hard yeah.
April Snow (15:15):
Because you're doing two things that take a lot of
energy, a lot of emotionalenergy, you know, supporting
clients and showing up on stage.
And I just think about going toa concert and just how much
musician puts in.
I don't know that personally,but just witnessing it, feeling
it.
That's a lot that you're givingof yourself.
I do want to talk about how youbalance that.
(15:37):
But first I'm just curious ifyou're open to sharing.
When you say you feltembarrassed about how you felt,
I guess I don't understand thatas a non-musician.
Would you be open to sharing alittle bit more about what you
mean by that?
Brian Zirngible (15:50):
I think during the performance I'm thinking
about, I felt grumpy because Iwas tired and I didn't get
enough rest earlier in the day,that I typically need to feel
more energetic for a show.
April Snow (16:08):
Right.
Brian Zirngible (16:09):
And knowing that I couldn't, and for some
reason I couldn't bounce backquick enough before I hit the
stage and I was just kind offeeling a bit raw and agitated
while during the show.
Maybe there was a point duringthe show where I felt lighter
and lifted and I kind of shookit off, but the beginning of
that show I wasn't happy with.
(16:30):
So, yeah, I've just learnedthroughout the years to give
myself plenty of time to rest,yes, nurture myself and my
energy and hydrate and all thoseself-care things before a
performance so does that makesense?
April Snow (16:51):
Yeah, because you're not showing up as your best
self or the self that you wantto.
Yeah, I'm just thinking aboutthat general feeling of an
agitated and my you know, I feelkind of like my nerves are a
little raw and that's hardenough, but then to get up on a
stage in front of people that'sso vulnerable.
Brian Zirngible (17:11):
Yeah, and it is .
But I also am aware of that.
I can put on a face and make ittill I make it and do that
whole thing.
But inside I know what's goingon and I'm not happy with that
deep feeling of disappointmentin myself.
April Snow (17:32):
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense because only we
know how we feel and otherpeople don't notice that nuance
of like, oh, that person isn'tshowing up 90, 100, whatever it
is, but we feel it, we know ityeah, it's so relatable most of
the time I give, you know, 98,but that time I was probably
(17:56):
giving 79, so yeah, right, andisn't it interesting that I mean
, I feel this, I hear this frommy clients that even 79 isn't
good enough, right, and?
And oftentimes our 79 isprobably closer to someone
else's 100, doesn't put so muchin.
But yeah, we're hard onourselves and we care about what
(18:18):
we're doing.
Brian Zirngible (18:19):
You're not talking about perfectionism, are
you what?
April Snow (18:25):
What is that?
I don't know anything aboutthat Come on now.
Now, it's true, it creeps ineverywhere.
Cheers.
Brian Zirngible (18:34):
Thank you, I almost have that same coffee mug
.
April Snow (18:38):
Oh, do you?
I love this one.
Yes, it's so pretty.
Brian Zirngible (18:42):
Made by a therapist friend of mine.
April Snow (18:44):
Oh, maybe I've seen that.
Oh, potentially, I'm not surethat rings a bell for me.
Brian Zirngible (18:52):
Yeah, I don't know Anywho.
April Snow (18:56):
Yeah, anywho, yeah, anywho.
So it sounds like you have tobe really intentional about just
having enough energy to show upin these two worlds as your
therapist self and as yourmusician self.
I'm just wondering about thathow do you manage, you know,
playing both of those partsbecause, like I said, they both
take a lot of you.
Do you ever feel like they'recompeting or it's hard to hold
(19:17):
both?
Brian Zirngible (19:18):
It feels like most of the time I'm able to
balance the two and after a dayof seeing clients and I know I
have a gig that same night partof me is tired and you know,
processing the day of therapyand part of me is really excited
(19:39):
to get on stage and playtrombone and sing and get that
energy out.
That's one of my self-carenecessities is moving my body
yes breathing and singing andplaying trombone.
That's a lot of breath work yeahI am practicing breath work as
I'm performing and dancing andperforming.
(20:00):
I was born a performer, so Ijust love performing for folks.
April Snow (20:07):
And that is yeah, I don't.
Brian Zirngible (20:09):
I would have to do something else creatively if
I worked in a band andperforming if I were a therapist
you know what I mean?
April Snow (20:19):
yes, absolutely right, because there's so many
things you're doing that areregulating, releasing on stage
the breath work, the movements,the joy, right, everything.
Brian Zirngible (20:33):
Yeah, it makes sense that that's the joy
happens only when I'm performingperfectly.
April Snow (20:41):
So ah, yes, that perfectionism again it's gotta
be at least above 79 yeah, soit's important, then, for you to
make sure that you can show upas best you can.
Brian Zirngible (20:55):
Yeah, for sure.
And there's going to be offnights.
There's going to be nights Idon't perform like.
I would have hoped.
But, I'm doing the best I canand not intentionally trying to
mess up or anything.
April Snow (21:11):
Sure, how do you sit with those nights when you have
given 79% or less and maybeyou're not feeling great?
How do you?
Brian Zirngible (21:21):
take care of yourself.
After that, I try to have avery short memory for those
moments and those nights that Ijust don't feel like I nailed it
.
Yeah so, but literally movingmy body, getting on the bike,
pumping some weights, freeweights, going for a three mile
walk and just listening to othermusic besides.
(21:44):
That really helps kind ofsettle me and kind of ground me.
And even talking through thatstuff with my wife, just like I
just really really did not do ittonight, and having her support
is always helpful.
April Snow (22:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good reminder that it's okay.
Brian Zirngible (22:05):
Yeah.
April Snow (22:05):
It's okay to have off nights.
Brian Zirngible (22:07):
Shout out to my wife.
April Snow (22:08):
Yes, shout out to your wife what's your wife's
first name.
Brian Zirngible (22:12):
Angie.
April Snow (22:13):
Shout out to Angie what's up, Angie?
You two seem like such a strongteam.
Brian Zirngible (22:20):
Steam Like a strong team A steam.
Yeah, she's great, we balanceeach other out and I just, yeah,
I love what we have together.
April Snow (22:31):
Yeah, it's really beautiful.
I mean just seeing photos andhearing stories.
It seems like you yeah, you twoare really strong and it's
important to have that supportwhere you can talk through
things and just a reminder thatit's okay.
Just an off night.
Brian Zirngible (22:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's soothing to know that she's
there and we can talk throughstuff.
April Snow (22:51):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
So when you're on those walks,what kind of music are you
listening to if you're open tosharing?
Yeah, a little pumping up.
Brian Zirngible (23:03):
Electronic dance music.
That's my jam.
Dub dubstep, dub reggae.
April Snow (23:10):
Oh yeah.
Brian Zirngible (23:11):
Man, yeah, dance music is kind of where my
heart is, and yeah, dance musicis kind of where my heart is I
listen.
I follow a lot of different DJsand styles of that kind of
stuff.
April Snow (23:24):
I love it.
Brian Zirngible (23:26):
It just oh.
April Snow (23:29):
Yeah, it's so freeing right, Just like letting
that energy out and kind ofjust instantly shift your mood.
It's pretty incredible.
Brian Zirngible (23:35):
Yeah.
April Snow (23:36):
Yeah, moving the body, blood flowing.
Yes, I mean I really say so.
When I was 18, I had somefriends.
They introduced me to the ravescene and I really think that
dance was my first form oftherapy before I ever knew
anything about therapy or didany of my own work.
It would I, I mean it reallysaved me.
(23:57):
So I can resonate with that.
You know that type of music andjust the need for music and
self-care or however you want toput it.
Absolutely, it's reallypowerful.
Yeah, yeah.
Brian Zirngible (24:10):
Something about that beat matching their
heartbeat and just moving thebody.
April Snow (24:17):
It's so primal.
I can remember just feeling thegoing through my body and it's
like, oh, it's really visceral.
Brian Zirngible (24:25):
Yes, you have to meet at uh coachella or
burning man sometime there we goright dancing out.
April Snow (24:35):
I love the things that you're sharing today.
You know, like you said,working out, or you know,
putting on dance music orperforming.
It really goes back to thesethings that maybe you wouldn't
expect an HSP to do, which itreally excites me.
You might think, oh, an HSP isgoing to listen to kind of
gentle, soft music or be behindthe scenes, but we can, yeah, we
can show up in these, maybesome more intense ways sometimes
(24:57):
or, you know, be at theforefront.
It's just about having thatbalance off the stage or behind
the scenes.
I just appreciate that kind ofundertone of the story that
you're sharing.
Brian Zirngible (25:10):
Yeah, and I mean, don't get me wrong there's
days when I want complete andwant and need complete silence,
or you know the sound of gentlewaves crashing against the the
shore.
But then there's other moments.
I need gangster rap and I needyou know stuff in my ears right
(25:31):
now yes, right that kind ofdichotomy and that that balance
is interesting definitely right.
April Snow (25:39):
Like yeah, you need variety, yes, to match your mood
yep I'm a music mood matcheryeah right, there's always.
I know there's always a songright to fit the mood.
Brian Zirngible (25:55):
It's the beauty of music well, I used to own a
wedding business with my with.
J Bell my bandmate friend andfor 10 years I would DJ weddings
and just feel the room.
I knew what worked, what didn'tand just kind of felt the vibe
of it and that's kind of, youknow, music fitting the mood.
April Snow (26:15):
I love that.
Yeah, what a great position foran HSP where you can kind of
just flow with what's happeningin the space around you.
Brian Zirngible (26:27):
Well, certain moments.
April Snow (26:28):
Certain moments yeah .
Brian Zirngible (26:30):
Could fit for an HSP.
But after 10 years I was like Ican't do this anymore.
April Snow (26:36):
Yeah, what was the hardest part for you about that?
Brian Zirngible (26:41):
The demanding nature of the gig and the
business, and some of the guests.
April Snow (26:52):
Sure Right, the interpersonal parts could be
really challenging.
People are aggressive.
They want to hear certain songsright now.
They imagine they'reintoxicated.
Yep yeah that part's not sogreat All of that.
Brian Zirngible (27:07):
Yeah, all of it , it was great while it lasted,
and it's over now.
Yeah, it's over.
April Snow (27:13):
Were you doing that, and also during your time as a
therapist as well?
Brian Zirngible (27:17):
Yes, Okay, okay , that makes sense yeah.
So, you're a therapist, weddingbusiness owner and band stuff.
April Snow (27:29):
You do it all.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's great.
I think as therapists we needneed something else I'm a big
fan of that just to nurturedifferent parts of ourselves or
have things just come to fullcircle.
You know, in a moment the workwe do is so drawn out and
(27:52):
long-term and elusive.
So so to go on stage, do a gig,finish it, go home and just
have that sense of completion, Iwould imagine is a nice
alternative to the therapy world.
Brian Zirngible (28:05):
It is yeah, especially when I'm performing
well.
April Snow (28:08):
So that's even better.
That's the key, yeah.
Brian Zirngible (28:13):
Yeah, and getting that.
You know, typically gettingthat paycheck right away at the
end of the night is always nicetoo.
April Snow (28:20):
That's nice too, right?
Yes, for sure.
So you mentioned performing.
Really to do it well, you needto be rested, recharge and be
your best self there so you canshow up a hundred you know,
close to a hundred percent.
You can bring the energy thatyou want to bring.
But I'm sure there are manytimes that that's not available.
Maybe you're overwhelmed,you're burned out.
(28:42):
It's been a tough client day,since you're often doing games
after client days, which isphenomenal to me.
But I know it's a good release.
But I'm just wondering how areyou balancing those times when
you are super overwhelmed?
How are you managing through,through those?
Brian Zirngible (28:56):
I never really used to be a napper, take naps I
don't.
I don't ever remember takingnaps in college or even
immediately after college, butthey've been really miraculous
for me.
Over the last few years Inoticed that when I and I'm a
napper where I can nap for 15,20 minutes hard, completely shut
(29:22):
down for 15, 20, and get up andbe like let's go Okay.
April Snow (29:28):
Wow.
Brian Zirngible (29:29):
So that's been helpful.
That's a really great tool thatI think might be underrated,
but I know that not everyonetakes to naps that well.
Some people need two hours tocompletely shut down and
recharge, but I can do it in 15or 20, and that will help me,
(29:53):
but just some kind oftransitional something.
I'm a big hygiene person, so ifI'm working as a therapist.
During the day, I need toshower and or clean myself of
the day before I jump on stagesomehow.
You know, I've got cleaningwipes and deodorant and cologne
(30:19):
and just things to change it upfrom work day to I'm performing
now so that transitional stuffis really helpful for me yes, so
important yeah yeah likethere's something about
showering off the energy of theday.
April Snow (30:35):
I mean, for me it's so essential Like I just need
that switch as well, like okay.
I'm letting that go.
It's also very regulating to bein the shower.
It's a good chamber to processand let go of things.
Brian Zirngible (30:48):
Oh yeah.
April Snow (30:49):
Yeah, it's great.
Brian Zirngible (30:50):
I've written so many songs in the shower.
April Snow (30:52):
Oh, right yeah.
Brian Zirngible (30:58):
Watching the day go down the drain is is nice
for me.
Oh, that's a song idea I know Iwas.
April Snow (31:01):
That's great.
Copyright primes are able yeah,watching the day go down the
drain.
It's so poetic because that'struly what feels like it's
happening just just releasing it, no, letting it go.
And if you can't shower, I lovethis symbolic cleansing maybe
doing something else instead.
Brian Zirngible (31:23):
Yeah.
Just create a shift Coconutwipes.
April Snow (31:27):
Coconut wipes.
Brian Zirngible (31:29):
Yeah, cleansing coconut wipes.
Made of coconut or smellinglike coconut Hygienic coconut
scented wipes.
April Snow (31:38):
Oh, I like this.
Brian Zirngible (31:39):
Yeah, they're like baby wipes, but for adult
musicians.
I just made that up, I don'tknow.
Did you know, I also dostand-up comedy.
April Snow (31:52):
I did not know.
I'm seeing that now.
Brian Zirngible (31:54):
I'm just starting now, are you really?
No, but I love comedy.
April Snow (31:56):
I'm seeing that now.
Brian Zirngible (31:57):
I'm just starting now, are you really?
April Snow (31:59):
No, but I love comedy.
Brian Zirngible (32:00):
That is a very popular thing.
April Snow (32:02):
Do you ever tell jokes or stories on stage?
Brian Zirngible (32:04):
I used to back in the other group that I was in
, but currently the group thatI'm in doesn't really cater to
that type of performance.
Got it that type of performance.
So got it, got it.
We just, we all love and enjoyand appreciate comedy, stand-up,
improv.
Yes, yeah, improv comedy forsure helps me kind of transition
(32:28):
.
Therapist, musician, performertoo.
April Snow (32:32):
So can you say more?
What do you?
I?
Brian Zirngible (32:34):
I don't know much about improv, so I'm just
curious what you mean, like howthat helps or that looks like I
mean, even with this interviewthat we're doing, I'm doing some
improv stuff, thinking off thetop of my head, that's true.
I'm gonna put ideas andshifting and moving.
As therapists we have to dothat all the time.
(32:55):
Really, we don't know whatstory our client might share,
how we're going to react to it.
I truly believe that therapistsshould be trained in a little
bit of improv, improv comedy.
Sprinkle some humor in with thetherapy process so it's not so
heavy all the time yes, such agood regulator right to have a
(33:19):
moment of levity or just a shift?
yeah, absolutely, and learningthe timing of that too, like
when can you, should yousprinkle a joke in?
April Snow (33:30):
maybe not let's wait you know, but and on performing
in the band too, there'smoments of levity and humor and
stuff too that we kind of, butyeah I don't know, I just I feel
like improv is such a wonderfultool that we all could use
truly I mean as hsps, especiallyright when we often struggle
(33:52):
with those transitions or theunexpected as you're talking
about.
It just feels like a little bitlight, like it's a little bit
of a moving bridge to help meget from one thing to the next.
Can't quite describe it, but Icould see how that would be
helpful, just to have thatmentality or that approach,
however you want to call it.
Brian Zirngible (34:11):
I like that moving bridge kind of visual.
April Snow (34:14):
That's what it feels like Like oh, I'm moving, but I
still have a bridge to help meconnect.
Brian Zirngible (34:19):
Right yeah.
April Snow (34:21):
Fascinating.
I love that.
Yeah, Improv is something I'vealways been scared of.
If I'm honest, I think I thinkof it in the kind of traditional
way where you're really I don'tknow, kind of being put on the
spot or having to be super goofy.
But I love this idea that itcould come into everyday life
and we're probably doing itnaturally.
(34:43):
We don't even realize it.
Brian Zirngible (34:45):
You're probably doing it right now.
April Snow (34:47):
Probably Because I'm just coming up with questions
off the top of my head.
Brian Zirngible (34:52):
You are?
No, you're not.
You sent them to me before weeven started.
No, I know.
April Snow (34:57):
But I've added in a bunch, I know, Just because it's
a fascinating conversation andI've known you from afar for so
long.
I'm like now's the time I canask questions.
Brian Zirngible (35:09):
Hold on, let's go.
April Snow (35:11):
No, this makes sense for an HSP, for everybody, but
especially for an HSP who mightneed that little bit of an extra
support and being flexible.
Brian Zirngible (35:19):
Yes, yeah, flexibility, resilience, flowing
with the flow not being sorigid with the flow, either
expectations or agendas that's.
It's just always kind of niceyeah, absolutely is.
April Snow (35:35):
Yeah.
So I'm very curious.
You know you're a musician inthe community where you see
clients.
Do those worlds intersect attimes, like, do you see clients
at shows or are you working?
You know being a therapist toclients you've seen on stage.
Does that, does it get a littlebit?
Does it overlap?
Brian Zirngible (35:56):
Yeah, it sometimes can and I'm very
transparent and open about thosetwo different worlds.
And, because it is my specialty, I'm still working as a
musician in the community.
I'm up front and open aboutthat.
It's on my website.
Informed consent is pretty huge, but we always talk about it
(36:19):
from the very beginning.
If an artist or a musicianreaches out to me for therapy,
we'll talk about what differentworlds we inhabit within the
music community and if there istoo much overlap within the two
of our worlds, I need to decidewhether or not it's ethical to
do that, to work with them, andwe'll just talk about it and
(36:42):
decide together.
Hey, our worlds are far enoughapart and different that I think
I would be okay seeing you as aclient.
But if our worlds are a littlebit too close and intermingled
within the different musiciansectors of the Twin Cities, then
I decide that this will notwork for us.
(37:06):
So I refer and provide a bunchof referrals for other awesome
therapists in the Twin Citiesthat work with musicians and
artists around the area too.
So it's again, it's always anopen discussion.
If we see each other out andabout happenstance, we'll talk
(37:27):
about it the next session andsee how it was for everyone and
just be really above board withthat.
April Snow (37:34):
I love it.
It sounds like this kind ofcollaborative boundary setting
where you join with the clientand just see, you know, does it
make sense to work together ornot?
And if we do, when we bump intoeach other, what does that look
like?
And just talking about that upfront, such a good lesson.
Brian Zirngible (37:53):
I'll avoid you.
We both might be drinkingalcohol if we're at the same
show.
We might be on First Avenue orsomething, and I might be with
my wife, I might be with friends, and so we'll just talk about
it without shame orembarrassment.
April Snow (38:15):
Great.
You're a therapist, but you'realso a human and a fellow
musician.
Brian Zirngible (38:17):
I think that's really yeah, I don't know, just
normalizing, like you get tohave your life and you may be
seen out in the world outside ofthe therapy room I do think
that that is one of the reasonswhy a lot of the the male
musicians reach out to me isbecause I just I'm part of the
scene that they're in and theyknow that I get it yes.
(38:39):
So to feel validated and justnormalizing those kind of unique
challenges is good for them.
So, but then we just have thediscussion about you know, will
our worlds collide andintermingle?
More so than not, and are weall okay with that?
April Snow (38:57):
Yeah, yeah, like you said, going back to that
informed consent, yeah, yeah,and it's so important to be to
work with someone whounderstands you, maybe looks or
looks like you do, or has hassimilar experiences.
I imagine that the sensitivemen you work with have a similar
experience like oh, you get it.
Brian Zirngible (39:19):
I only, I only work with men that that look
like me.
I know they came across weird Iwas just meeting with a
colleague and I, and I remindedher I was like you know.
I do like to say I am my ownideal client.
Oh, truly Right, Absolutelytrue they have to wear a jean
(39:41):
shirt and wear the wild thingson a t-shirt.
April Snow (39:45):
I thought, yep, it has to be that specific.
I thought that's what yourshirt said, but I wasn't sure
it's confirmed now.
Oh, let's get a visual.
Brian Zirngible (39:56):
There we go a new thrift store find oh, I love
it.
April Snow (40:03):
That's really good.
No, it's.
It's so important to yeah to tobe understood you feel heard is
when the healing starts.
Brian Zirngible (40:18):
Someone else said that.
I don't know who, but I'mquoting someone else.
April Snow (40:22):
So true, to feel heard is when the healing starts
.
Absolutely true, could be asong.
Could totally be a song.
Yes, we have a couple songscoming out of this conversation
today.
Brian Zirngible (40:36):
It knows.
April Snow (40:39):
Well, Brian, this has been a really lovely
conversation.
I wanted to see if there's anyfinal thoughts before we start
to wrap up.
Brian Zirngible (40:47):
I thank you for your time and for inviting me
on to Sensitive Stories podcast.
It's been a real pleasure.
April Snow (40:54):
It has.
Brian Zirngible (40:55):
I guess if anyone listening is curious
about their sensitivity or theirpartner's sensitivity, just to
explore that a little bit andkind of look into the dynamics
of what that means learn a bitabout it, be gentle with
yourself and or with your lovedone.
(41:16):
If you know someone and just Idon't know, educate yourself
about stuff and how highlysensitivity shows up within
people and even out in thecommunity too.
It's fascinating to realizethat 20 percent of us are hsp
(41:37):
and, yes, I remind myself ofthat sometimes.
Yeah out of five people youknow are highly sensitive.
So, yeah, you're not alone I'mnot alone.
I'm not alone, you are notalone.
April Snow (41:52):
Yeah yeah, it not alone.
Brian Zirngible (41:53):
I'm not alone, you are not alone.
April Snow (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true that you know we do make up
a larger percentage than Ithink we realize, because
sensitivity is so pushedunderground and we're pressured
to show up like non-HSPs.
But there are many of us outthere and you know.
If you realize that you aresensitive, just slide that.
Look across the coffee tablenailed it yes, yeah, yeah, it
(42:19):
can start there and I I thinkyou know.
It's such a good reminder thatlearning about our trait, who we
are as sensitive people, soessential I think really
understand yourself.
If you've noticed growing upthat you're different, you're
more empathetic or anxious or,you know, perceptive, maybe
(42:41):
there's more to it, maybe you'repart of the club.
Brian Zirngible (42:46):
Join the club.
April Snow (42:47):
Join the club.
Welcome here.
It's pretty great actually.
Brian Zirngible (42:52):
It's not bad.
Yeah, it's not bad yeah, it'snot bad.
April Snow (42:57):
I love it so much.
Well, brian, thank you so muchfor this.
This was a joyful conversation.
I really loved it.
I'll be sure to share yourwebsite, your social media, in
the show notes folks who want toreach out to you.
Yeah, I hope we'll do thisagain soon.
Brian Zirngible (43:11):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much, April.
I appreciate it.
April Snow (43:13):
Of course.
Thanks so much for joining meand Brian for today's
conversation.
What I hope you'll take away isjust how important it is to
carve out time for what you loveand what fills you up, whether
that's music or another passion.
(43:34):
If you're local to Minnesotaand want to work with Brian, you
can find the link to hiswebsite in the show notes.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
(43:57):
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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