Tokyo Marathon Talk with NYRR Board Chair Nnenna Lynch

Episode Transcript
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Nnenna Lynch (00:00):
What was really key for me was taking the pressure
off. And so I thought, okay, what's the minimum I
could do to stay fit? And it was to run
two days a week. I figured worst comes to worst,
I can run on Saturday and Sunday. And then I
discovered the beautiful thing of when you set a goal
and you achieve it, that virtuous cycle of it feels

(00:21):
good, you want to do more. As opposed to setting
a goal that's really always feels so far out of
reach. And so that for me was the big insight.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you New York. Today we're reminded of the power
of community and the power of coming together. Athletes, on your mark.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
The first woman to finish for the second straight year here in
the New York City Marathon is Miki Gorman, a smiling Miki Gorman.
And why not? 2:29

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Look at the emotion of Shalane Flanagan as she comes to
the line, pointing to his chest, pointing to the USA.
He so proudly wears across his chest. A great day for Meb Deplesky.

Rob Simmelkjaer (01:13):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official
podcast of New York Roadrunners, presented by Peloton. I'm your
host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of NYRR. And with me
week in and week out from Peloton, Becs Gentry. Good
to see you, Becs. How's it going today?

Becs Gentry (01:30):
Hello. Good. How are you?

I'm good. I'm really, really good.

I'm just going to sound so weird. I re- watched
your run route many times because I was like, " Did
you get lost?" I loved it. I was like, I
feel like I can see his brain being like, " Okay, we'll go
this way. We're going to add some more miles if

(01:54):
we go this way then we're going to go back
here. Then around here." It was a phenomenal 22.

What Becs is referring to is my 22- mile run on Saturday
up here in Westport, Connecticut. This was my longest run
preparing for Tokyo.

So good.

And I went out that morning. I kind of had
a mindset of, all right, I had to go to
the Millrose games that afternoon, so I had a window
I had to run in. I knew Snow was coming
the next day, so I had to do it that day. And I just said, "
I'm going to go to do 20 and if it
feels good, I'm going to go two more." And I
ran, you're right, I just ran all over the place
up here. I ran from Westport to Norwalk around the

(02:29):
beach, back the other way. I did find a few
nooks and crannies, Saugatuck Island, some beautiful areas along the
shoreline here to run in Connecticut. And I just felt
good. I kept feeling so good, Becs, this is way better
than any training that I ever had for Berlin. So I
added on those two more, and I feel great. I
really do. I'm so excited and I just couldn't be

(02:51):
more excited to go to Tokyo. First trip ever to
Japan and it's going to be great. But yes, Becs,
I had you in my ear in part I was
listening to some of our podcasts, but in part because
I was thinking of you as I got toward the
end of that run. So it was a great day.

Well, congratulations. It looked very fun and very rewarding to
then have it done. You've ticked the box and now
you're ready.

Yeah, I'm ready and-

He's ready.

... by the way, today's show is so much fun
because not only are we talking about Tokyo. But I'm
going to be joined by not only my running mate
in Tokyo, but also the chair of the New York
Roadrunners board of directors and my boss, Nnenna Lynch, who's
going to come join us. Talk about her incredible career
as a runner, post running. And talk about us getting

(03:39):
excited to run Tokyo together as the CEO and chair
of Roadrunner. So it's going to be a lot of fun.

She is incredible. She's a force.

Yeah.

You also did spend the Millrose Games with her as well.

I sure did. I sure did.

What a weekend?

Becs, we were so lucky. Nnenna and I got a front-
row seat to just incredible history at the Millrose Games.
This was of course up at the Armory, and she
and I got to hold the finish line tape for a-

So cool.

... new world record in the indoor mile. Yared Nuguse,
unbelievable performance.

What a legend.

A time of what's a legend? 3:46
championship in a row. And boy, Becs, what a thrill
it was! The crowd was just going nuts to see
this very popular American runner come through and break that
record. It was quite a moment at the Millrose Games.

I am sure it was, it was wonderful to watch from
afar. I wish I could have been there but had
personal commitments that evening. But I mean Yared Nuguse, we had Hops
Kessler in second place as well. Our friend of the
podcast, Josh Kerr, had to drop out due to illness,

(04:59):
we understand. But just there were multiple, multiple records just
taken down from people we know to rising New York
Roadrunners as well, which was just great to see.

That's right. In addition to the men's mile, I think
the other really exciting moment on the men's side was an
incredible duel in the 3000 meters, which we ended up
seeing Grant Fisher come through with the wind there. That
was a really dramatic race. Mano a mano right to
the end, so a record there. And then on the

(05:35):
women's side, your country woman, Georgia Bell.

I know Georgia Bell came through with a PB.

That's right in the mile.

4:23.

4:23
United States. And in third a friend of the podcast,
Nikki Hiltz, a personal best- finishing third. So that was
a special performance as well. And then Becs, we also
had a great moment earlier in the day, our Rising
New York Roadrunners Invitational 800 meters. And these are kids

(06:07):
part of the New York Roadrunners Rising Program and it
was on the youth girls side, a young lady named
Evelyn Sharafo from MS 245M, the computer school, with a time of 2:36:
39. And on the boy side it was Will Berger
from MS442K, Carroll Garden School 2

(06:31):
So phenomenal day at the Millrose games. And boy indoor
track and field just had a real vibe going this week in New York City.

Thank goodness for it being indoor because Sunday was a no-
go. It was no one wants to slip, let's just
say. When you're so close to the likes of Tokyo,
you might be so close to the United Airlines NYC
half, London, Boston. I just say don't do it. Okay.

Thank you. Becs, thank you for saying that. I want to
thank you because it's always a hard decision for us
to cancel a race at New York Roadrunners.

So tough.

People are looking forward to it. People are structuring their
weekends around it. I heard from a friend Sunday who was like, "
I didn't even go out Saturday night. I was getting ready for
this race." And then they find out we canceled it.
But you're 100% right, I try always to think from
the mindset of the runner, right? And what would a runner

(07:32):
want? Do they want to go out slippery, slidey conditions?
And to your point, risk may be getting injured before
a big race that they're training for? Do they want
to have the hassle of getting to the race? Not
everybody is coming from a short distance. Lots of people
are coming from around the tri- state area. And here
in Connecticut on Sunday morning, it was not travel conditions.

(07:55):
You are not going to get in a car and go
to New York City first thing in the morning on Sunday
morning. So we made the tough decision to cancel that
race. Good news for all the runners though. They all
got their nine plus one credit if they're going for
the nine plus one program for next year's marathon. So
generally people felt good. And I want to thank our
great sponsors, the Flag Art Foundation. They created an incredible T-

(08:19):
shirt shirt for that event. And I think everybody's got an
opportunity to go and pick that up at the Run
Center. So check out your email-

Fantastic.

... for a way to pick up that race shirt
if you were registered for the race, because it's a
beautiful piece of art on the shirt. We want to
make sure everybody gets a chance to wear that shirt
with pride.

There we go.

As I mentioned earlier today, we've got my Tokyo Marathon
running buddy, who also happens to be my boss as
chair of New York Roadrunner's Board of Directors Nnenna Lynch. She's
our featured guest. And we'll talk about what it's like
to train for a marathon when you're in your 50s,
as of us happen to be. Both from the pro
perspective and the amateur perspective. Nnenna being the pro in

(09:01):
that equation, former pro. And I'm sure Becs is going
to have some great Tokyo tips for both of us,
right Becs? I look forward to hearing those.

Absolutely. Stay tuned for that.

And then speaking of running Buddies, on today's member moment,
two of New York Roadrunner's most celebrated running buddies, Jacob Caswell
and Jay Solly from Frontrunners New York City will join
Meb. Followed by today's Meb minute, which is all about,
you guessed it, the benefit of having a running buddy.
Kind of a Valentine's Day theme there, which is super

(09:30):
cute. Valentine's Day coming-

That's very cute.

... up tomorrow as we drop this on Thursday, February 3rd. By the way,
Becs, happy Valentine's Day.

Oh, thank you. Happy Valentine's Day my commentary, buddy.

That's right. Absolutely. I'll be looking for the chocolates after the show. All right.

All right. Okay, I'll send them over. Do your 24 miles.
No I'm kidding. We're not going that high. Ready to
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(10:06):
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Today's guest was born and raised in New York City
and began her relationship with New York Roadrunners at the
age of 10, participating in her first race in Central
Park in 1981. Nnenna Lynch's talent led her to Villanova
University where she became a seven- time All- American and
secured five NCAA titles in track and field. Then in

(10:48):
1993, she was honored as NCAA Woman of the Year
and went on to become Villanova's first road scholar, earning
a master of letters from Oxford University. As a pro,
Nnenna was a five- time U. S national team member
and a world university games gold medalist in the 5,
000 meters. Transitioning from athletics, Nnenna served as a senior

(11:11):
policy advisor on economic development to former New York City
mayor Michael Bloomberg. And here's a fun fact about Nnenna,
which not many people know, she's also been a model.
Nnenna has been seen in Vogue, shot by Annie Leibovitz
for Gap, and in People's Magazine's 50 most beautiful people
issue. Nnenna is currently the founder of Xylem Projects, which

(11:34):
is a real estate development firm dedicated to sustainable and
affordable housing. In 2023, she made history as the first
woman and first African- American to be appointed chair of
the board of directors of New York Roadrunners. She is
my boss. She is also my Tokyo Marathon running buddy
and was my fellow tape holder at the Millrose games

(11:55):
this past weekend. Nnenna Lynch, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, good to see you guys.

Absolutely. So before we talk about anything else, Nnenna, we
have to just talk about Saturday and what-

Oh my God.

... a thrill that was for you and I-

Oh my gosh.

Becs, I don't know if you saw us holding the tape.

Oh I did. I was so envious to miss it, but it
was my good friend's birthday, so I had to make
a decision. I normally do put running and sport first, but-

It was incredible for us to-

What an experience?

... be holding either ends of the tape-

New records.

... for a world record. Yared Nuguse in the one mile Nnenna-

My favorite.

... that was really quite a thrill, wasn't it?

Oh my God, totally a peak experience. Millrose Games, so
I ran in the Millrose games growing up back when they were
in Madison Square Garden. So there's a long, long history
personally for me there. But I mean overall, the whole
meet, I mean, that wasn't the only world record, right? You
had world records, national records, personal records. I mean, it

(12:53):
was just such a phenomenal meet. And one of the things I
love about it is how it marries. We had our
rising New York roadrunners in the race earlier in the
day. And so you have these world's best with few
middle school kids out there doing their thing. And so the
range of running life that you see exhibited in Millrose

(13:16):
Games is one of the things I love.

Nnenna, I would love to ask you a question about
your experience with running with the sport, with community. How
did you feel at the weekend holding the tape and
seeing these records being broken by names that were relatively
unknown in the households around this country? The normal households,

(13:42):
until last summer. And now it's like Super Bowl, what?
We were all about the Millrose games this weekend?

Yeah, it's so phenomenal. And the Armory, which hosts the
Millrose games was packed. And Rita and Jonathan who lead
the Armory did such a phenomenal job and race director
Rae Flynn. But it's really thrilling to see the interest
in running. And for me it's also, I was there and

(14:11):
I've been in the sport for 40 years. And so
it's also these events, it happens at the New York
City Marathon as well. It's almost like a little bit
of a reunion, right? I was bumping into people I
hadn't seen since 1988. And so it's really, for me,
the combination of just the phenomenal talent that's on display.

(14:34):
Obviously Yared Nuguse sort of takes the cake on that. But
then also you had a really phenomenal high school mile event.
Actually, my alma mater, a young girl from my alma
mater Hunter High school won the high school mile, so that was really exciting to see. And then again, the rising New York Roadrunners, it's

(14:56):
so phenomenal to see our programs really come to the
spotlight there at the Millrose Games. So yeah, just really, really
phenomenal to see how the sport is thriving.

It was a thrill for everyone at New York Roadrunners to
be there. We have a great partnership with the Armory,
as you mentioned, and it was really a great day. Okay
Nnenna you mentioned those 40 years of running. Let's talk
about them one by one by one, starting with year
number one. No, just kidding. But no, let's go back

(15:25):
to the beginning of your running journey, Nnenna. Running in a
New York Roadrunners race at 10 years old in Central
Park, 1981. What led you to that moment? How did you first
find this sport?

Yeah, so it started with sort of normal schoolyard races,
and I could beat all the boys in my grade and a big...
And we loved playing manhunt after school, which is a
form of tag, so a lot of running. So I
seem to be good at it and I really loved it.
It felt good. Organized running came a little bit later,

(16:04):
and so my sister joined track team along with a
friend. And I eventually wanted to join too, but was
rejected. Because I was the annoying younger sister. My sister was like, "No, this is my thing. Get out of here, skedaddle. You do your own thing." And you know what? My parents
agreed, and it was really well intentioned. My sister had

(16:28):
been a star on Sesame Street and I was really,
really shy, and so they thought it'd be good for
me to carve my own path and find my own
thing. So they actually said, " No, no, no, you can't run.
You have to find something else." And so I did.
I tried ballet and then I tried tennis, but I just I
wanted to run. So I eventually insisted. And then the coach

(16:52):
that my sister had been working with was actually a
guy named Barry Geisler who had been president of New
York Roadrunners in 1971, 1972. And was the founder of the
early youth and community programs dating back to the mid
to late 1960s, this amazing connection. So he was obviously

(17:18):
very familiar with New York Roadrunners and most of the
time we did youth age group, what was known as
age group races. But occasionally if there wasn't a race
that weekend, he would enter us in a New York Roadrunners race.

Wow, okay. So talking of races of past and all
of this experience of being involved in many a race,
rumor has it, you're heading to the other side of
the world in a few weeks to run the Tokyo
Marathon. But a little extra cherry on the top here

(17:52):
is that you are going to be Rob's running buddy for
26.2 miles, which is awfully exciting.

Rob's going to try to make that happen.

Actually, I have something to talk. I was listening to your
recent podcast honoring Fred LeBeau with Mary, and Ted and
I noticed something that I have a bone to pick
with you. There was a lot of hedging going on.
Rob was like, " I'm probably going to run a spring marathon.
I might." And I was like, " Uh-uh buddy, we need

(18:26):
to hear it here."

It's out now.

Okay.

I came clean last week-

He did.

... and said, "I'm definitely doing it." No, but you're totally right. I'm a notorious sandbagger when
it comes to my running and I hedge about whether
I'm doing it and then, oh my God, I'm going
to be so slow, it's like... And Nnenna you can
probably relate to this as a runner one time in
a professional runner, like the whole managing of expectations, right?
Because your expectations can really be your greatest enemy when

(18:56):
it comes to running and life, right? And it's a
question for you, how do you manage your expectations as
a runner today, given all the incredible success that you
had as a runner in your youth? A lot of
tennis players don't want to play tennis in their 40s
and beyond because they remember how good they were in their teens and 20s.

(19:20):
How do you manage that?

Yeah. Well, let me tell you, it was a journey.
It really was, right? Because as a competitive athlete, so
from age 10 to basically age 30, for 20 years
of my life, I was a very serious competitive athlete.
It was all about peak performance and pushing yourself. And
then when I retired, I really struggled to find my
way, and it took several years. And so for a

(19:44):
long time I thought I have to keep pushing. And
what I realized is that didn't really sit well with
me. I was then back in New York trying to
start a career at the time. My very first job
actually after retiring was at Goldman Sachs. I was an
analyst there working insane hours. And I signed up for

(20:05):
the marathon in I guess it was 2002. And I
was really trying to push myself and I realized that it just doesn't work. And so eventually I
gave myself the grace and shifted my mindset to this
really is just about being active. And I was so

(20:30):
excited by this insight by the way, and it did take several years that I ended up
writing a New York Times op- ed about it, which
is set the bar low. So for that time in my
life when I was early in my career, working really
hard, and a young family, what was really key for
me was taking the pressure off. And so for me

(20:50):
at that time, it was I thought, okay, what's the minimum I
could do to stay fit? And it was to run
two days a week. I figured worst comes to worst,
the crazy weekdays, with a crazy schedule I can run
on Saturday and Sunday. And then I discovered the beautiful thing of when you set a goal and you achieve it, that virtuous

(21:11):
cycle of it feels good, you want to do more. As opposed to
setting a goal that's really always feels so far out
of reach. And so that for me was the big insight. And today
I'm back to running, I would say five days a
week. But it's really all about feeling good. It's about
hygiene. I think of it as, it's like brushing my teeth. It's

(21:34):
like this mental hygiene, it helps me feel good, helps
me process feelings. So it's just a wholly different perspective,
but it took me a while to get there.

Do you still feel like you set the bar low even though
you run five days a week? Do you still try
to manage your expectations on the lower side for yourself?

I do. Well, actually, I don't have expectations anymore. Again, I was
a competitive runner for 20 years. I really went after
it. And my identity, my sense of worth was really
tied up in how I did. And now I have a rich and full
life and whatever time I run doesn't really matter. And so,

(22:19):
I really focus now on what it feels like and
feeling good. And I'll enter a race where I'll sometimes
push myself a little bit, but I tend not to
go all flat out. I'm not trying to set any
personal records. I'm only not trying to set any age
group records. There was a time of life when I did

(22:40):
that. But yeah, so it's really about, I would say now I have very
little expectations.

I love that just for the happiness and the pure
just enjoyment of being out there with the community, getting it
done. That's beautiful.

I want to talk about the college days a little
bit, Nnenna, and-

Yeah. They sound wildly good.

... your incredible running. We're at the Millrose games watching a lot of great college
athletes obviously come through all Americans. And five NCAA titles,
seven time all, All- American is really incredible. I mean, you
don't see that resume walking around very much. Is there

(23:23):
anything that stands out when you look back? Is there
a race or a championship or a moment that you
kind of think of as the highlight of your college career?

Yeah, there is. And I should say, so there were four team titles and one individual title
in the 3000 meters. But it was definitely, even though
I had that individual title, it was the team titles for
sure that were most meaningful to me. And in particular,
the fourth NCAA title. Up to that point, we had

(23:56):
been undefeated our entire cross country for my first three
years. My collegiate career, we were undefeated. And going into
my fourth year, we were going for the fourth title,
but there was no, by no means a short. We
graduated some seniors, we had some freshmen who were untested.
And actually that fall, I ended up having my first

(24:17):
injury in up to that point in my career. So
I spent most of the fall actually training in the
pool. And every time I would run, my legs felt
wobbly. And so there was a lot, and I was one
of the leading seniors. And so going into the NCAAs
my senior year, there was a lot riding on it
and a lot of uncertainty, but we pulled through. So

(24:41):
I ended up finishing third. So we got a podium finish and
we won our fourth title. And if you see the
photos of me in those final stages, the strain on
my face and in my neck, I mean I get bit
my all. And so it was really, really gratifying to
finish my collegiate career as a cross country runner and

(25:04):
with our team undefeated with that fourth title. Which by
the way it's like, I don't know of many sports
or any other sports where... I mean four consecutive titles,
it's pretty amazing.

Wow, that is unreal. And a very random question, do you
still speak to or run with any of your teammates
from then?

Yeah, so my teammates are from their now in all different
areas. Actually one of Jack Fleming, who is the race director
of Boston, so his wife, Kathy Fleming was one of
my teammates. So, I love going to Boston because I guess I could
see Kathy and catch up with her-

So nice.

But yeah, I don't have any teammates from my era that
live in New York City, so I don't see them
often. But yeah, we're in touch.

I love that. I love the fact that it's still so true to you, seeing how happy
you were when you set your alma mater from the weekend took
first place. So just knowing that the connection has stayed
with you, I think is really important for people of
all ages who are starting out in running, to know
that you can have this joy and you can find people

(26:18):
who are similar to you in some ways and so different to you in other
ways, but you can bond over your love for movement
and it can transcend decades of running so-

Yeah, for sure. No, being on the team, I mean and it was such
a deep team too. It was like I joined a
team that actually that very first year we won our
team title. The winner of the overall race was my
teammate Vicki Huber, who... So this was the fall of 1989, the year

(26:52):
before 1988. So she was a junior in college, placed,
I believe it was fifth in the Seoul Olympics. And
she was my teammate. Say Sonya Sullivan, who went on
to get a silver medal in the Olympics, an Irish
runner was my teammate. So it was really an amazing set of talent.

And Nnenna, your success on the track and then also
in the classroom led you to the opportunity to be
a Rhodes Scholar. Which for those who don't know, is
something that really recognizes college students who do it all,
who are exceptional athletes and exceptional students. And you had

(27:36):
a chance to go to Oxford and go have that
chariots of fire kind of English experience. Becs I'm sure
you can relate to this.

Yeah.

What was that like going over there? I know you
had some opportunities to even encounter people like Roger Bannister,
the legendary names in the sport of running in those days.

Yeah. So I actually never met Roger Bannister, but of
course his history looms large. He broke the four- minute
mile at the Oxford Track. So yeah, living in England
though was, from a running standpoint, I would say it
was really such a pleasure. Because the British and the

(28:17):
Europeans in general just had such a deep respect and
love for the sport and a rich history. And my
favorite discipline was cross country. And so you had a
really lengthy deep season there. And I ended up winning
the, actually I won the English Cross Country Championships in

(28:40):
1996 with, so there's a... And they have a longer
season. So just from a standpoint of running, it was
really, really phenomenal. And then from being the standpoint of being
a Rhodes Scholar, it was also this really this inflection point. When I went to Oxford, I was not sure I would
continue running. I had had as a middle distance runner

(29:02):
in college, you're running all three seasons, right? And so
by the time I graduated, I actually graduated injured, and
I was also tired and ready to just be a full-
time student. But within weeks, I would say of getting
to Oxford, I missed it and I wanted to get
back to it. But it's a wholly different setting, right? So

(29:26):
in US in college, you have a phenomenal infrastructure of
coaches and physical therapists and so on. At Oxford, the track was
really pretty much a club without a coach. It was
a loose collection of runners. So it was also this inflection
point for me where I really, it was a very clear choice, right? There was

(29:49):
nobody telling, there was no scholarship on the line. It
was a very concerted and effort and to continue running.
So it was a big inflection point for me and
my maturity as an athlete.

Becs, I just like to think about what it was like when Nnenna
went over there from New York and wins the cross-
country championship in your homeland, Becs. I'm sure they were
all very nice and polite.

I'm sure, I'm sure. Very nice. And understanding that it is,
Nnenna, you described it really well, it is exactly just
like having a club. We do not have the... Well
maybe we do now, I haven't lived in the country
for nearly seven years. But we didn't have the deep,

(30:38):
deep passion that runs through schools in the US for
sport and academia. It is more or less one or
the other for I would say 99% of universities in
the UK. And then they can still have a phenomenal
team of ex- sport, but it's more on the club

(30:59):
level than this incredible college basketball. And all of the
stuff that we have here in the US and the UK, it's just, just study.
Just please get the books done and then focus on
sports, if you've got time or brain power. So that
was a great description. But yes, I'm sure they were all humble
and lovely.

Oh, I'm sure they were. I'm sure they were. So Nnenna on the heels of your time at
Villanova, then you decided to go and keep going, right?
You weren't sure you wanted to keep running, you kept
running and went into the pro game. What was that
like for you?

Well, I was really fortunate enough by my second year at Oxford,
I had gotten hooked up with a coach named Bruce
Tullah. Who himself had been European champ, maybe 1958, back
in the 1950s. And it was coaching Britain's top distance runner,
Richard Nerukar, who ended up placing fifth in the '96

(31:58):
Olympic marathon. So I ended up with this squad that
was just really supportive and serious. I learned what it
means to really dedicate yourself. We would go also in
altitude training camps to Mexico and Kenya. And so it

(32:19):
was a great introduction to what it means to be
a professional athlete through this group. And it was really
sort of a phenomenal time of life.

When you decided to go and continue with your running,
what were you hoping to get out of running for
your career from that point forward? And how was it? I mean,
it's not an easy thing to go out and actually
try to run for a living.

No, no. Well, I think most runners who run post collegiately or run professionally, I
was Olympic hopeful. When I was a junior in college
I went to Olympic trials in two events. And then
in '96 I went in one event. And so there

(33:12):
was always this hope and dream of being an Olympian, which
I never achieved. But I did, as you said in
the intro, was able to represent the US in five different
national teams, three world cross teams. And then the world
University games and a Goodwill games. And so it's interesting,

(33:36):
at the time, I would say I was incredibly always
frustrated with what I was able to achieve. And it's
only with a lot of hindsight and being able to
look back and appreciate what I did achieve. But when
you're an athlete, it's like you're... I don't know, climbing
a mountain and you're looking at that peak, and all

(33:59):
you can see is that thing... You can't see everything
you've climbed behind you. That's not what you're focused on.
You're looking ahead and you're thinking about the next thing,
and what more you can achieve. Which is you're able
to push yourself a lot that way. But I definitely did
not have a great deep appreciation for what I was

(34:19):
able to achieve. But yeah, at my best, I think
I was ranked top 30 in the world. But yeah, I would
say every year I would have something that kept my
hope going. Whether it was winning the US trials for

(34:39):
the World Cross Country Championships, or winning the England National
Championships. Or running a world leading time at the end of
1990, I ran a world leading time in the five miles. So
there were always these... I had plenty of bright spots
along the way, but no, huge, huge breakthrough to the

(34:59):
ultimate goal of being an Olympian. And then I retired
in 2000.

Wow. It's taking a minute for all of these incredible
achievements to settle into my brain as you're saying them,
and it's just unbelievable. But you're continuing to do, and a few
things you said there has brought me to today, to
the more recent times for you as a mom. You

(35:32):
have two children?

I do.

Yeah. Okay. You're CEO of a company-

Teenagers.

Two teenagers, even more incredible. You're an active runner and
you wear a lot of hats in your day- to-
day life. And that's inspiring in itself. But as you
said, when you're constantly striving for the peak of the
mountain, you don't get to take in the beautiful views

(35:55):
on the way up. And that is so true. And
right now one of the roles that you have is
very pertinent to the times right now. You're the first
woman and African- American to chair the NYRR board. And I think
it's just such a great time for us to discuss

(36:17):
that is the... The peak is so huge, and what are we
looking at right now as you are in this role of
getting to a peak that's ever probably growing, moving? What are
you seeing? What are you envisioning for inclusivity and diversity within

(36:39):
the running community?

Well, what amazing thing about the sport is I think, and
it has a DNA, it's a democratic sport. And really
the barrier to entry is really low. We are a non-
profit and serving the city. And so our goal on

(37:04):
the board and completely aligned with Rob and the leadership
team is to continually make sure we're serving all New
Yorkers. It's really as simple as that. And getting to
every neighborhood, etc. We do focus on, we do have
limited resources and focus on under- resourced neighborhoods. But we're

(37:26):
really focused on ensuring that our programs and our races
and events and everything are really open and accessible to
the beautiful range of people that make up our great city.

Nnenna, one of your goals as chair, one of my
goals as CEO is to make sure that people know
what you just said, right? That we're a nonprofit, that we
have this mission. It's very easy, I think for people
to see New York Roadrunners... Of course, they see the
marathon and they see us take over the city and
give New York City the best day of the year

(38:06):
every year. And what a huge event that is, the
scale of that event. And I think a lot of
folks just say, " All right, well that's New York Roadrunners."
A lot of people think maybe that's not even done
as a nonprofit think maybe it's some people think
it's for- profit or just don't know. And your history
with the board, you really started out in that community
impact side of things. You chaired the community impact committee

(38:30):
of our board. So you've always been focused on the
impact that Roadrunners makes as an organization, and it really
ties back to you, right, and that ten- year- old
who ran a race. What has it meant for you
to watch this organization evolve and grow? We obviously have
some amazing youth programs. You also were on the board

(38:53):
as the organization weathered a pandemic and now is kind
of coming back from that. So you've seen a lot in
your time on the board. How do you reflect on
that and think about the way the organization has evolved?

Yeah, I mean, I'm super proud of the work that the organization
has done. We have continually grown. I mean, I've been focused on
growing our reach and deepening our impact, I think is the best
way to say it, and have just seen phenomenal growth.

(39:29):
And I touched on my coach growing up who was
the creator of the earliest youth and community programs. And
by the way, I didn't know that when I joined
the board. Like I just became aware of his history
and some of the details of his history more recently. So it

(39:51):
feels like this on a personal level, a great full
circle moment. And also on a personal level, the role
running has played in my life has been so central
and impactful. And I haven't talked about it much, but

(40:12):
I had a difficult home life growing up. And running
was this thing that really helped me develop a positive
identity, a sense of confidence, a team, and a family and
the coach and all that. And so I was really
drawn to the board and the community impact work, which we

(40:34):
used to call youth in community services. Really, because I
want every kid in New York to have the opportunity
to run and think of themselves as a runner, and
feel like like this is the sport as a tussleton, because
it should be, and it's in fact.

Yeah, and Becs, I mean now we've got over 100,000 kids
in New York City alone that are part of the
rising New York Roadrunners program. And so that's the impact,
right? Out of that 100,000 kids, I'm going to guess
that there'll be more than a few division one college

(41:14):
runners that will come out of that group.

Absolutely.

And who knows, maybe there'll be a Rhodes Scholar and
maybe even a Vogue model, who knows?

But you know what? One of the things I love about
our approach though is it's really, it's not about the
winners. I mean, one of the things that I love
doing is being a race buddy for our Run for
the Future program. Which is these are young women girls

(41:45):
who really don't think of themselves as athletes, and the
idea of running a 5K is a real achievement. And
to see the look of pride on their faces or
to see some of the novice wheelchair racers, when they've... Because
it's hard to figure out, develop upper body strength and

(42:07):
figure out how to maneuver a wheelchair. To see these
kids who don't think of themselves as athletes and probably
are not going to be Olympian or NCAA champion. But
to see them develop the sense of confidence in their
ability to take on a challenge and develop this amazing

(42:30):
habit of practice of running, that's the gift that really
excites me, is that it's so impactful or so powerful.
And if every kid could have access to that knowledge,
that feeling, that confidence, the world would be a better place.

It truly would. It truly would. I love seeing the
whole families sort of coming to the events where we
have the children's run, the Rising Run. We have the
adults running and there's just everyone in the family is
wearing a bib, and they're all going to go off
to their various races. And then at the end of
the day, just the happiness that... The mile is like

(43:18):
the one that sticks out in my mind for that
is just seeing the parents go and run it, and
then the kids just... Oh, by the time it's all
finished, you just know that they're going to have the
best day. And they've all inspired each other without really
purposefully knowing that they're doing it. It's wonderful, so inspiring.

Yeah, that's one of the great things about our open
runs too, which we have in community parks throughout the city,
is it's low- key and the whole family can come out.
And yeah, everybody from grandma to the little one, and it's low
pressure, it's relaxed, but gives families opportunity to get outside

(43:59):
and exercise together.

Yeah. Which we need more of. We always need more
of. Do you exercise with your teenagers? Do they run
with you?

They have rejected running?

No.

Completely. Now they're both athletes, but they prefer team sports.

Okay, that's okay.

Yeah. So I mean, both of them could be really good runners. My strategy
with them was to just hang back and not... And give them
exposure. Like I took my daughter to our New York
Roadrunners Jamborees that we host a couple times a year.
These running festivals where kids get to try different events,
and super fun. So definitely they both had exposure. But

(44:45):
as far as really guiding them to a sport, my
strategy was to hang back and it looks like it
backfired, so. No-

They find their own path.

... I'm actually really happy. That's the thing is they need to find their own path and have a passion for it. And they do, so that's great.

All right, Nnenna, I made a joke about it before, but
I really do have to ask this question, and we've
never spoken about this before. What was it like to
have Annie Leibovitz taking your photos? Can you just take
us through that day and how that happened and what that was like?

Yeah, I think I was way too naive to be nervous. So I think
I fully realized what an icon she was. So I
think the way it happened is, so back in the
1980s, back in the day, Newspapers, there were more newspapers first of

(45:44):
all, and they covered high school sports, right? And so
I was a prominent athlete through my teenage years, through
my high school. My sister was too, and she was
a little older, so by this point she had graduated.
She was running at University of Texas. But there was
a period there where the Lynch sisters were a thing.

(46:06):
Because we were both top runners nationally ranked top runners. And
so I presume it was because of that media. We
live in New York City, big media market, I presume
it's because that media exposure, that we were on somebody's
radar. And yeah, got a call one day and Gap

(46:26):
had just started their... I think it's called Individuals of
Style campaign where they were looking for people who were
not celebrities, and not models. They were looking for, so quote-
unquote real people. And so yeah, I got the call and
we're like, "Okay." Went to her studio. I think it was

(46:48):
on Valet street, it was. And looking back, I think
one of the things I really appreciate is she was
just a incredibly confident self- possessed woman who was a

(47:09):
master and fully inhabited that, right? And she had this
whole studio of people running around and assisting her. It's
interesting because I feel like my memory at least is that
the photo shoot just didn't take all that long. And
so it's hard to really appreciate the artistry in the

(47:30):
moment. But yeah, I just remember her poise and command
and her confidence.

Do you going back and looking at those photos? Or do
you put them somewhere and never look at them?

Yeah. So again, this is one of these things, it's
like, what was I thinking? So what ended up happening actually is at the time
these campaigns were on bus stops and billboards. They were
pretty prominent, except I was away at college running my

(48:07):
butt off. And so I don't think I ever actually
saw one of these, and I never made a point
of getting one of those posters. I have a rag
tag sort of torn at the edges, copy of an
ad that was in a magazine. So it was like I was not

(48:27):
thinking about history and archiving all this stuff. So at
some point several years later, my sister and I went
back and we got Annie to sign one of the
photographs. So I do have those. But yeah, it's definitely
one of those things where you didn't appreciate at the time, but

(48:49):
looking back, I'm like, holy moly, that was pretty cool.

I've just found it online. I just had to look because I was like, "I've got to see this. I've
got to see what you're talking about, right?"

Let's put it in the show notes.

I mean, I have an older sister, but I mean there's
so much love, you are just... Oh my gosh, the
smiles and the happiness on your faces is wow. It
just resonates coming straight through the screen right now. So
yes. Wow, that's unreal. I'd definitely have that framed. What

(49:24):
an incredible achievement? And I mean, it just keeps rolling I think as well.
I think from reading about you, Nnenna, from having met
you and knowing about you, and just sometimes when, not
that it matters, not that the times matter, but the
variety of accolades that you have achieved throughout your life,

(49:48):
you keep going. You ran the 2022 RBC, Brooklyn, half in 1:27:
39, by the way. Again, not that time matters, but
I think as a female, you are inspiring women to
wear these multiple hats and to keep going after it.

(50:10):
If that's what's making you happy to keep pushing the
boundaries that have been put in place by societal norm
of history. So I want to know female wise, having
run for this long, what advice would you give to
somebody in their 20s perhaps just getting into loving, running on

(50:33):
the longevity of the sport?

Yeah. I would say, let's see, to listen to your
body, take care of your body. I think runners in
particular, and I've been guilty of this at different points.
Where you take such pride in your toughness, right, like

(50:57):
that's part of the point is to push through. But
figuring out when that's a bad idea. Whether it's that
injury or whatever it is, right? And so taking care of
your body, whether it's physical therapy, massage, sometimes rest, right?
It's as simple as that, is giving yourself enough rest. And

(51:19):
so that's really what I would focus on is listening
to your body and taking care of your body. After
my kids, when I came back from running, I ended
up with a whole series of injuries, and it turned out
it was, I had diastasis. Which is where your core,

(51:44):
your abdominal muscles are separated and they don't fuse. And
that lack of core stability was leading to all these
injuries, right? And so I really focus on the big picture.
I do run five days a week but I also
do yoga and calisthenics and plenty of core work and

(52:05):
swimming when I can. And so yeah, really try and
keep a really balanced perspective on it all. And try
and be gentle with myself. And I would say for
those who are really trying to get after it, that
to think about how the sport can adapt with you

(52:28):
as you grow and age and different phases of life, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

All right, Nnenna, talk about Tokyo for a second.

Yes, please.

Here we go. Rob's getting the nitty gritty now.

(inaudible) running, okay yes.

Before we came on, Nnenna was rightly so giving me
a hard time because we actually hatched this plan to
run Tokyo together last December. It was really-

Wow.

... right around the Ted Corbett 15K race that we
decided that we were going to do this. We ran
pretty much that whole race together. Had a pretty good
day actually, the two of us. And at the finish
line, we looked at each other and we were like, "
Okay, what do you think? Should we do Tokyo?" And
we agreed right then and there. And then in classic style,

(53:15):
I didn't say anything about it. I was hedging about
it. Am I really going to do this? Really because
I've had a history at least recently, I got hurt
a couple of years ago and I didn't want to
put it out there and then have to pull out
so publicly. But it's on now because we've been doing
our runs and-

It's on.

... Nnenna knows the morning of the Millrose games, I ran
22 miles up here in Connecticut and felt great, so
we're doing this. And so now, Nnenna, the question is
how are we going to do this? I think we
agree, we were going to kind of take it easy,
but I'm looking at your results and you're running really
well. You ran the Fred LeBeau half marathon in a time

(53:55):
of 1:40
do this to guess, I recite their times to them
sometimes. But you're running great, so how do you feel going into Tokyo?

I feel pretty good. I mean, but the marathon is a whole
thing... So let's be clear, take a step back. I've
run two marathons, one in 2002, and then the second one in 2023. And you could look
at the time and be like, " Oh, this was pretty
good." But the truth is it was ugly and painful. And so

(54:31):
yes, so I'm really excited to do this and with
no pressure or little pressure and to do it really
with you. And it really is an experience, and because
I think it's really... There's nothing like running a race
to really get a sense of, I'm so curious to

(54:51):
see, like okay, how does Tokyo do it, right? What
do they do differently? So I'm really looking at it through that standpoint.
And I figure if I'm going to go, it'd be
great to run and I'm so excited to run with
you. But unlike you I haven't done my 20... So I was supposed to

(55:12):
do my 20 miler on Sunday, except a couple things
happened. One, it snowed. And two, I wasn't feeling that
well, so it got punted. I'm supposed to do it
tomorrow. Well, it's supposed to snow again tomorrow, so-

I know.

You're feeling all confident like, oh, I did my 22-miler, okay. And I'm sitting here like, I haven't done my 20- miler.

You'll be five.

You'll get it in.

So anyway, yeah, I'm excited to. Oh, and then it's been such
a revelation to work with our phenomenal coach, Roberto, right? Roberto Mandje.

Roberto Mandje. Yes.

Yeah. And he is so talented and helpful, and so I'm really learning about,
I think something I had never figured out previously is
the fueling. And so figuring all that, so I'm excited as
to bring it all together. Again, yeah, no pressure situation.
So Becs I understand you have run Tokyo, you ran. So tell

(56:10):
us what are your top three tips?

As soon as you land, find the Pocari Sweat, which
is the drink that they have on the course as
well as water. So I would at least try it
as soon as you land, because it's everywhere, and you
might accidentally grab it instead of water. Because a lot
of people have said it either upsets their stomach violently

(56:34):
or they're fine with it. I was fine with it.
My partner on the other hand, totally upset his stomach.
So get it. You can actually buy it on Amazon,
I think over here. But get it when you land.
It'll be everywhere. It's in every seven 11. Do not
be afraid of the rules and regulations. Sorry, Tokyo Marathon
Foundation, but your booklet that you send out is petrifying

(56:58):
to people. I think we could work on the wording.

A lot of rules.

A lot of rules. And of course we need rules and we need
people to follow certain ways for it to be a great
experience for everybody. But the amount of people whose faces
have turned to me and being like, " Am I going
to get disqualified if I drop my Morton wrapper on
the floor or if I accidentally... " No, you're not. Well,

(57:24):
I hope that you would not if you absolutely accidentally
littered. The receptacles that they have for trash are huge.
The booklet makes it seem like you have to stop,
walk off the course, find a bin and put it
in yourself. That's not true. They had these giant cardboard
receptacles at the end of every fluid or aid station.

(57:49):
So turn it into a game, I turned it into...
My friend who I was running with, we turned it
into a game. We were like four for four, just
trying to slam dunk it in every time. And then
I never say this, I hate running with music when
I'm racing because I love to feel the crowd, the
energy. If I train with headphones and I have one in

(58:12):
for safety as well, I would have some music lined
up or a good conversation. And the final thing is
the last, it's multiple out and backs this route. Which
is common knowledge is there. The final out and back
to me was probably the most demoralizing six miles I've

(58:34):
ever run in my life, because it was such a
long out and back. And then you're seeing people literally
coming into the final turn. It would be having to
do Central Park South three times and be like, I
just want to go there. So make sure that you know that you're going to go into one

(58:57):
last six mile slog of undulating hills are going to
feel like Kilimanjaro whilst you're watching people coming into the
finish being like, " I want to be you. I really
want to be you right now." But the finish line
is, the finishing shoot is very short as well. So
it's quite like, oh, we're here. Oh my gosh, turn
the corner there. It's uneven surface too. So yeah, I

(59:20):
feel like Tokyo of all the majors is the most
soul searching, most people will do over the 26.2 so-

Soul- searching like-

Interesting.

... why did I do this, kind of soul searching?

If you're like me. I was running to my medal. That's
all I wanted was that six- star medal. I wanted
to see Judy at the finish line, get my six-
star medal from her. And then I was like, okay,
now let me come and see this beautiful country and
this incredible city.

Yeah. Oh, those are great tips. Thank you.

Of course.

Nnenna doesn't know this, but I've been preparing a three- and- a- half-
hour stand- up comedy routine to try to keep her
entertained during this race so that we don't have any mental challenges.
So I'm working on it. It's a work in progress.

Becs Gentry (01:00:06):
Yeah. Somebody actually said this to me yesterday and my
partner, he was running the race as well. We were
both there in Tokyo last year. And he said he was... Because it was
so many out- and- backs, he was really excited to
see me. And he was like, " Oh, we're going to
see each other four times. It's going to be so fun." And
he said, he drained so much energy from mentally trying

(01:00:27):
to see me coming the other direction. We never saw
each other. So he was like, " That's part and parcel why I ran
slower. I was so mentally exhausted from trying to find
you." So there's another tip. Don't try and find people
because even though you're doing out- and- backs, it's a
huge race.

Nnenna Lynch (01:00:43):
Got it. And there will be quite a contingent from
your Roadrunners there, so that's-

There's so many new-

... a good tip as well. Yeah.

So many Americans. So many New Yorkers doing-

See you at the finish line.

Yes.

Rob Simmelkjaer (01:00:54):
Absolutely. We're so excited-

And a beautiful finish line.

Nnenna, this is so fun having you on.

Yeah, thank you.

I guess I'll close with a question for you just
about the organization and where you hope we go from
here. You and I talk on a weekly basis about
the big picture of New York Roadrunners. Running is so
popular right now. We're in a place that's great on

(01:01:21):
so many levels. People started running during the pandemic, and
so many have kept up with it, and that's great.
Of course, it also means we have a lot of
demand for our races, and people are really excited to
run and run with us, and we love that. And
sometimes it's also a challenge for us to try to
keep up with all of that passion for the sport

(01:01:42):
of running. And you and I talk about that as
well. But as an organization and especially with your focus
on the mission and the impact, where do you hope
we go in the next five years?

Yeah. I mean, it really goes back to broadening and deepening our
impact. As you said, we sell out our races, etc.,
but I think I always go back to the youth
and community side of the picture and thinking about, okay,
what more can we do? And I'm so excited by

(01:02:17):
what you and your leadership team are working on. And
I think New York City in so many ways, we
hear often, right, that the marathon is the best in
the world, and it's the most popular. It's definitely it's
the biggest. We know that, right? But yeah, but there's this love

(01:02:37):
of that. And I want to take that excitement and
really spread it. And to think about New York City
as the best city in the world for runners and
running and cultivating running talent. Just creating this ecosystem of
starting with elementary school and we have our new middle

(01:02:59):
school program and continuing through high school. I mean, one
of the things I love about the team is that
we're constantly thinking about how can we do things better?
How can we connect the dots more, create more connective
tissue? And that's where our middle school program that's going
to serve 10,000 kids in the 100 different schools it's going

(01:03:20):
to come from. But a statistic that really haunts me
is that high school, there are only 20% of high
schools have a track team. I'm like, " How is that
possible?" So there's always so much more to do and
I'm super excited by... And I hope we get to
talk about this at a future date. The plans we're hatching to really lean into the

(01:03:44):
philanthropic side of this. Because as we said, our races
are limited, so our revenue, that means our revenue is
limited, but there's so much more we can do. There's
so much more we need to do. And philanthropy is
really going to be the thing that is able to help
us broaden and deepen our impact. And so more to
come on that, but I'm really excited about the ambitious

(01:04:06):
plans that we have in the works.

Yeah, 100%. That's why when you listen to this Set the
Pace podcast, we have an ad that talks about our
impact and actually tells people how to donate. Because that
is really how, those donations, the giving to the organization
really empowers us to go out and make the kind
of impact that you've talked about today on Set the

(01:04:30):
pace. And that we're looking to broaden and deepen in
the years to come. So appreciate your mentioning that and
appreciate having you on our little podcast. It's been great
to have you on.

It was super fun. Thank you so much.

New York Roadrunners is a nonprofit organization with a vision
to build healthier lives and stronger communities through the transformative
power of running. The support of members and donors like
you helps us achieve our mission to transform the health
and wellbeing of our communities, through inclusive and accessible running
experiences, empowering all to achieve their potential. Learn more and

(01:05:18):
contribute at NYRR. org/ donate. Jacob Caswell and Jay Solly
are defining what it means to be an LGBTQ running
power couple, both on and off the race course. Caswell
a top non- binary marathoner, has claimed victories in major
races like the New York City and Chicago marathons. Earning

(01:05:39):
accolades such as New York Roadrunner's, Fred LeBeau, runner of
the Year. Solly, a six- time marathoner, and the race
director of the Frontrunners New York LGBT Pride Run is
a tireless advocate for LGBTQ+ inclusion in road running. Working
with global organizations to ensure all athletes can compete authentically.

(01:06:00):
Together, their stories highlight the intersection of athletic excellence and
social advocacy and of course joy.

Meb Keflezighi (01:06:08):
Thanks Rob. Jacob and Jay, welcome to the Set the
PACE podcast. How's it going today?

Jay (01:06:14):
It's great. Thank you so much for having us.

Jacob (01:06:17):
Yes, thank you so much.

My pleasure. Welcome to the podcast. You two met through
the Frontrunners. For our audience members who may not know,
can you tell us about the Frontrunners and what it
meant as the community and the Frontrunners like?

Jay (01:06:31):
Maybe I can start. Jay can just quickly say I
mean, Frontrunners is the largest LGBTQ running club in the
world. And in the New York chapter that we have here,
we have over 1200 members, and so there's this really
large, vibrant community of LGBTQ runners that we see pretty
much week in and week out in New York. And

(01:06:53):
we all get together and run together. And it's a
community building space. People find relationships, people find best friendships,
and Jake and I had actually met there before, long
before we even started dating. Jake, I know you came
to Frontrunners too before I even did.

Jacob (01:07:11):
Yeah. I think Frontrunners really gave a place for a
lot of people coming out of the pandemic to really
find that community. I think we saw a lot of
people either returning to New York or coming to New
York for the first time post pandemic. And I think that Frontrunners has really
given a lot of queer people opportunity to build community

(01:07:33):
in a large city here like in New York.

How did you each discover the sport of running to begin with?

Jacob (01:07:41):
Yeah, I started running in high school and I think I had
a really important network of people. Like that's where my
community was in high school. Like really key important coaches
and teammates that really I think emboldened my love of
running. Running is what brought me to New York. I

(01:08:04):
ran collegiately here at Columbia University and I've been at New York ever
since. So I guess running has just been always a
part of my life and is what brought me to
New York. What about you, Jay?

Jay (01:08:18):
I'm the opposite, right? I didn't run in high school
or collegiately and I was kind of a passion runner.
And then when I joined Frontrunners, I mean there's just
such a racing community and then also being able to
do it with this queer club made me want to
do it more. And I got into marathoning and I got a
coach and who also happens to be a Frontrunner, so
we kind of have opposite journeys there.

Running is often seen as both personal and community- driven sport. How have
your identities and advocacy shaped the way you approach running
in the running community?

Jay (01:08:51):
Yeah, I mean I think certainly for me, and this
is also a shout- out to New York Roadrunners for
having the non- binary category and making it really easy
for folks who identify, not only in our club but
in many clubs to race as non- binary. I mean,
it's been a real tangible way that I get to

(01:09:12):
express my identity, right? I finish a race and I see the X
gender marker next to my name, and that's such a
tangible way for me to express myself and to run
authentically. And so every time I'm running it's something I'm
thinking about whether I'm racing or when I'm just out for a
run. Getting to do it as part of the club

(01:09:35):
and then getting to do it authentically and racing. It's
all just kind of melded into this really passion- driven
experience for me. Jake, I know you've got a much
longer history with racing than I do.

Jacob (01:09:47):
Yeah. I think it's just that racing and collegiately, it was always kind of like in this category
that I knew it really wasn't meant for me, but
there really was no other option. So when there was
this option available, and as you were saying Jay, just
having that X next to your name just makes it

(01:10:11):
running, just so much more freeing. I mean, I had
previous teammates collegiately, who are now also running in the non-
binary category and are doing really well. Sophia, I think
can really, in their case, and I think even in my case
as well, you could really see the blossoming of the

(01:10:34):
runner going from one of those gender categories to the non-
binary category.

Jacob, the non- binary, you've been setting records and what
does the future look like for the non- binary representation
and community in the running? For you to be a
collegiate high school athlete, but now to be able to
be part of the New Yorker Roadrunners non- binary, how does
that change for the future or do you see progress?

Jacob (01:11:01):
Yeah. I think we're really starting to see the non-
binary category renaissance. I think more and more people are
opting to express their gender identity and the non- binary
category. I think once you start seeing more and more
people join, you feel more and more comfortable and safe

(01:11:21):
to join as well. So I think we're really seeing
from the New York City Marathon to other major marathons.
And year in year out, more and more people opting into the non-
binary category. Do you have any thoughts, Jay?

Jay (01:11:40):
I mean, yeah, I'll echo what you said. And there's
so much happening right now for queer athletes to be
able to run authentically as themselves, not just in New
York, but everywhere, you're seeing more and more races offering
the non- binary category. You're seeing more and more attention
being given to non- binary athletes who are excelling. But

(01:12:01):
also know LGBTQ athletes in general deserve a space in
running, and so that blossoming is really exciting to see.

Excellent. Jay, as a race director for the FRNY LGBT Pride Run and
advocacy for inclusion, what steps do you think road races
and marathons still need to take to be more welcome
to non- binary and LGBTQ+ athletes?

Jay (01:12:26):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. Let me first
just start by saying that the LGBT Pride Run now
entering its 43rd year is a real expression of that
queer joy that we have for New York City, right?
It started with just 400 people racing in 1982, and now it's

(01:12:48):
over 8, 000 finishers pretty much every year. And it
is also one of the races in the New York Roadrunner system
that has the largest number of non- binary participants, because
it is just that free and safe and welcoming space.
Like all of other New York Roadrunners races and many other
races are. I think there's a few things that races

(01:13:09):
can do that are what we might call low- hanging
fruits, right? And it's just helping bring visibility to the non-
binary category. Not even just to say to legitimize it,
but to really be out and proud and say, " That
this is something that we're offering for our participants to
be able to run authentically. And we are providing a

(01:13:30):
safe space for not just LGBTQ athletes, but everyone to
be here and be prideful in the way that they
run." That's how they represent themselves on the website, in
social media, in language. Making sure that there's inclusive language
and not just necessarily very specific gendered language. All those things are
really easy, right? They're pretty simple steps, but they go

(01:13:53):
a long way to helping show people that it's a supportive environment.

Great. Running is something that is very inclusive that we
feel, and you are both on the road a lot
and racist all the time. Talk to us about the
changes that you are seeing in terms of the LGBTQ running community.

Jay (01:14:11):
Yeah, I mean, maybe I'll start. Jake, I think when
I first moved to New York and joined Frontrunners, there
weren't really that many out athletes even running in the
New York Roadrunner system, right? There were a few folks,
and Jake, you were out there and obviously impressed and

(01:14:31):
inspired me. But now we're seeing more and more athletes,
whether they be from Frontrunners or from elsewhere, right? If
you look at the 2024 Olympic team trials, Frontrunners was
represented there with Scotty Nelson, who I know you have
also interviewed on this podcast as one of only a
few out gay runners at the Olympic team trials for Team

(01:14:55):
USA. And I think as we're starting to see, as
we have role models like that and role models like
Jake and Sophia and other people, the more we have
of that, the more people feel empowered to not hide
a part of their identity when they run. Whether it's
professionally at the elite level or whether it's at the

(01:15:17):
community level.

Pretty awesome. Well, both of you are doing great work and keep inspiring
and changing people's lives, so thanks for being on the
podcast. Wish you all the best.

Jay (01:15:26):
Thanks, Meb.

Jacob (01:15:26):
Thank you so much.

Thank you both for joining us and for being members of
New York Roadrunners. Now it's time for today's Meb Bennett.

Meb Bennet (01:15:35):
Thanks, Rob. Running buddies train you for a marathon or half
marathon can be tough, but it is a lot easier
when you have running Buddy by your side. Valentine's Day
is a great reminder that running partners are like the
perfect training match. They keep you motivated, hold you accountable,
and make the miles more enjoyable. Whether it's a friend,

(01:15:57):
spouse, or teammate, having someone to share the highs and
the lows of training helps build a stronger bond and
make the process more fun. So this Valentine's Day, give
the gift of training partner and go crash those miles
together. It is a win- win for your fitness and
for your relationship. As I was training, I had a

(01:16:18):
lot of great partners that I trained with, but also I
had someone on the bike. So those conversations, those highs
and lows of life and marathon training are dialogue that
makes the miles go by so fast. Especially under tough
conditions, it is important to be able to be with
somebody that keeps you accountable and make it a lot more fun. Sometimes you say, "

(01:16:39):
I can't believe we already ran eight miles or nine
miles," so keep that friendship going.

All right, what an episode this was today. Thank you
to all of our guests, New York Roadrunners board chair,
Nnenna Lynch, Jacob Caswell and Jay Solly as well. If
you like this episode, make sure you go ahead, subscribe,
rate, leave us a comment or a question, wherever you
listen. We'll answer your question and you'll also help others
find a podcast as well. Thanks for hanging out with us

(01:17:05):
this week. If you're training or whatever you're doing, enjoy
the miles.

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