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February 22, 2024 58 mins

 What does it truly mean to connect, to be there for each other in the messiness of love and life? 

In this episode, Jacob and Meg went deep into the tangle of feeling defensive, the struggle to stay open when every bit of you wants to just close up tight, and how to navigate the choppy waters of relationship conflicts. 

Breaking down those walls we've so carefully built around our hearts is no small feat, especially when it comes to the ones who hold the biggest pieces of our hearts.

We also riff off on:

  • Meg O'Neill shares her personal practice of choosing to open instead of waiting for her partner to be less defensive in conflicts.
  • Jacob O'Neill agrees and adds that defensiveness is a coping mechanism, and accepting it can help move through conflicts more effectively.
  • Jacob O'Neill acknowledges his defensiveness and resistance in a conflict, recognizing that it's exhausting and takes up energy.
  • Vulnerability and openness in relationships. 
  • Opening hearts in relationships. 
  • Jacob O'Neill emphasizes the importance of letting go of control and embracing the journey of opening one's heart.
  • Opening up in relationships despite ego's resistance. 
  • Meg O'Neill shares her personal practice of opening up to her partner without conditions, even when there's tension or closure.
  • Meg O'Neill highlights the power of body language in shifting energy and deepening connection.
  • Consistency in small moments leads to deeper relationships and personal growth.
  • Meg O'Neill expresses her desire for deeper connection and intimacy in her relationship, while Jacob O'Neill shares his passion for his work and the importance of communication in their partnership.
  • Jacob O'Neill shares his fantasy of being with a wild woman who commands him and feeds him dark energy, while Meg O'Neill discusses the importance of feminine manipulation in relationships.
  • Relationships require work, but sometimes it's time to let go.
  • Embrace discomfort and heartbreak on the path of femininity, as it leads to greater truth and fulfillment.

    and many, many more!

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jacob O'Neill (00:00):
Hey, hey lover.
Hi. Where are you been all mylife?

Meg O'Neill (00:04):
Right here?

Jacob O'Neill (00:05):
We haven't podcasted forever. Like probably
to wait two weeks. I missed youlast week.

Meg O'Neill (00:11):
Yeah, I had a nice break week did

Jacob O'Neill (00:16):
we had brother lino come and drop in and we had
an awesome chat. But now it'sback to me and you back to the
OG crew.

Meg O'Neill (00:23):
Yeah, I'm excited.
I'm really genuinely super duperfucking excited to be here. What
about all for a nap? Feelinggood. Feeling good. A little
puppies underneath your feet.

Jacob O'Neill (00:34):
Yeah, it all feels it all feels right.

Meg O'Neill (00:37):
And we got some questions to answer what q&a
today? Well, the people havealready queued. And we

Jacob O'Neill (00:44):
yeah, we are graded a we so I

Meg O'Neill (00:49):
do we just want to dive right in? Or is there any
any back and forth

Jacob O'Neill (00:55):
your friend Jack rose, you would say just come
on, get to the point where youguys do that the whole winter. I
think just like talking aboutwhat you want to talk about.
Shout out to Jack brazier forhis directness. When he goes
talk about it. Let's just get tothe topic that you're talking
about. Should we just jump in,shall we? Okay. We'll

Meg O'Neill (01:11):
listen to you today. Jack.

Jacob O'Neill (01:13):
Thank you, Jack and your medicine.

Meg O'Neill (01:15):
Okay. How so? These are questions that have been
sent through from yeah,

Jacob O'Neill (01:20):
there's a theme.
Yeah, bit of a theme here whichwe're gonna. Yeah, work through.

Meg O'Neill (01:25):
Awesome. And just so you know, you can send us a
question at any time. I justalways screenshot and we have a
collection of questions. Soanytime you're listening to the
podcast or something arises,just DM one of us or you can
email Hello at mag dash, They only forgot my
email because it's changed. It'sthe right email. Changing your

name is a whole thing. Didn'twhen did we speak about this?
Did we speak about it on thepodcast?

Jacob O'Neill (01:52):
Maybe? Maybe? You know, when I was speaking
someone I really maybe we spokeabout it. But yeah, I've been I
was having a conversation withsomeone about it the other day.
I was like, Yeah, you're anO'Neill now.

Meg O'Neill (02:00):
Ya know, we were talking about that because we
drove past a politician. Youknow, those politicians signs.
And it was like Gail O'Neill wasnot winning. That's my last name
I share last night with thatwoman like, because sometimes I
just forget that O'Neill is mylast name. Yeah, yeah. No, I
love that. It's my last name.

Jacob O'Neill (02:18):
You're no longer in O'Sullivan? Yeah, it wasn't a
big jump from No Irish lastnight.

Meg O'Neill (02:24):
I find I find that so fucking funny. Yeah, that I
still have the Irish roots. Yes.
The O apostrophe? Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob O'Neill (02:33):
What's up the Celts? Celtic traditions?

Meg O'Neill (02:36):
Okay, we ready?

Jacob O'Neill (02:38):
that was a we had to do a loop. Okay, question

Meg O'Neill (02:43):
how to move through conflict, when both people
struggle with defensiveness?

Jacob O'Neill (02:50):
Do you want to take this one?

Meg O'Neill (02:52):
Well, my opinion on this is like someone moves
first, someone who if you arealways waiting for your partner
to not be defensive. If you arewaiting for them to open before
you do. Yeah, festival that'sdeeply conditional, you're
opening your posture of openingis conditional on how he or she

is, you know, appearing orreacting. And I would say if,
you know, if you desire to openthe moment, you have to be the
one that chooses to open, ofcourse. And as a woman, I love
to see this as my own personalpractice, like I want to be a
woman that chooses to open, thatdoesn't stay in the posture of

contraction that doesn't staydevoted to the story of he did
this, he did this, he doesn'tlove me, he fucked up or
whatever it might be. Like, as awoman, my personal practice is,
once I noticed the contraction,once I noticed the closure, I'm
diverted to opening I'm divertedto revealing I'm devoted to

bringing my own body right backinto a state of openness. So
that's my answer to that. It'slike, both of you are defensive,
will you only have control ofyour actions. If you're waiting
for him or her to be lessdefensive? You can't fucking

control that. The only way youcan open the moment is through
your posture through yourtransmission through you.

Jacob O'Neill (04:25):
Oh, I totally agree. And just so I create some
context is like defensiveness isa it's a coping mechanism. It's
I don't feel safe. I don't feelsafe to open. I've been hurt
before I want to be heard again.
So rather than thinking like howdo we not be defensive as like,
how can we accept that we'rebeing defensive? That's what I

think you know, a lot of thetime we win. We're in a moment
like that where we lock hornsand there's resistance for
either of us to to meet thatopenness. It's like, oh, hey, I
don't want to open right now. Ikind of want to win this. I want
to beat you right now. Yeah.

Like we're not beat. No domesticviolence, but like, I want to
win this argument I want to,yeah, I want you to lose. And
even just acknowledging thatjust like clay, like actually
bringing an awareness to that inthe space, hey, like, I really
want to, I really don't want togive in to you right now, I

don't want to open to you. Butyou've just accepted where
you're at, which is so much, somuch closer to opening, than
expecting yourself from goingfrom defensive to deeply cracked

Meg O'Neill (05:42):
And I would say that's part of the process of
revealing if I want to win rightnow. I'm feeling super
defensive. And actually, I'mstruggling to even listen,
because all they want to do iswin and for you to lose, that's
actually opening, because you'rerevealing what's going on
underneath the defensiveness,what's causing the

defensiveness, what's causingthe silent treatment, what's
causing the, you know, whatever,whatever posture you're taking
with your body or words that arecoming out of your mouth. So
that's like, almost like theunraveling of deeper revealing
and deeper intimacy andvulnerability. Oh,

Jacob O'Neill (06:20):
and I would argue that you could bring through
once you've accepted that,you're probably going to get
clear on what it is that youactually want to fucking say.
Yeah. So the follow up to that,okay, I can feel myself closing,
I can feel myself not wanting toopen to you. I don't want to
give you anything I want to win.
And then it's like, Ah, here Iam again. Can I actually share
what it feels like actuallygoing on? For me? I think this

is something completelydifferent. It wasn't about the
fact that it wasn't about thetoast being burnt. It wasn't
about the the car, the car doorbeing left open and available.
Look, can I share what's reallygoing on for me? Yeah, because
once you've accepted whereyou're at, then you get to make
a decision on where you'regoing. And that for me is such
a, such a liberating experience,because resistance takes up so

much energy. Defensiveness takesup so much energy, and it's
exhausting. And quite often, wecan blame that on our partner.
And sometimes it can be ourpartners. Our partner is the is
the one that's closing or is theone that's not willing to meet
you there. Sometimes, but like,oh, you really got to be able to
take ownership. You really gottabe able to take ownership.

Meg O'Neill (07:29):
Sorry. It's just really, it's

Jacob O'Neill (07:36):
gonna keep going.

Meg O'Neill (07:39):
Go on. Sorry. Oh he's asleep. Sorry. That was
rude of me. That's okay.

Jacob O'Neill (07:53):
This is who we are now. With these people. It's
sitting. Room infused with dogfart. The

Meg O'Neill (08:00):
show must go on. Up to what was I saying? Where
sometimes it can be yourpartner's defensiveness. Yeah.
Yeah. And you might be

Jacob O'Neill (08:10):
leaning in. And like, if that happens over and
over time, that's going to bedata for you to look at. Maybe
this relationship isn't for me.
Yeah. But if you're, but ifyou're like, willing to accept
where you're at that, hey, I'mbeing defensive. Hey, um, you
know, how many times have we hadthat we're like, I can feel the
part of it has been a brat untilBobby doesn't want to give in.
And it's like, Oh, I know what Iactually want. I'm just not
speaking my desires, notactually being clear with what I

want from the relationship andwhat I'm willing to give. Yeah.
And once you do that, like youcreate so much space and this is
what I was saying like yourexhaustion comes from the
resistance the where you'reactually at, rather than from
like blaming your partner fornot giving you what you'd want.

Meg O'Neill (08:51):
Yes, and I love that you brought that piece
around like your exhaustioncomes from the resistance
because we speak a lot aboutalmost like I see them as two
paradigms in relationship oneparadigm that you can be devoted
to is in moments of tension andconflict. My partner is my enemy
that's fucking exhaustingbecause that requires that
requires defense that requiresAlma course when you're looking

at that person and being like,you know, they they fucked up or
I need to win against them ofcourse you're gonna bring out
every fucking defense possibleand all the armor and all the
artillery possible. Yeah. And sothat is going to be exhausting.
And honestly, it never leads todeeper connection. However, you
might have a pattern in whichyou end that style of conflict

with maybe it's just the silenttreatment for a few hours or one
of you saying sorry, when like,you know, the other one isn't
going to or whatever the patternis, but that's never actually
going to take you deeper. Like,but when you step into this
paradigm of my partner is nolonger my enemy. Wow, my

defenses Is aren't needed. Infact, what would it feel like to
take my defenses off, and to putdown the armor and to put down
all the artillery, artillery,I've been carrying all the
resentment, all the things thatI think I need to take out in
this moment, and just fuckingopen. And when I say open, I
mean, reveal what's alive. Like,can you let your partner in on

what's going on for you in thatmoment. And that's why it's so
important we become embodiedhumans in our own experience.
Because in order to reveal youhave to understand within your
own body, what's happening rightnow. Or, I have this deep
contraction in my solar plexusthat feels like a lack of
safety. Off I felt I've got thislike queasiness in my belly. Oh,

this like, heaviness in my bellythat felt like this sense of
abandonment. And when we're inour body, we're then able to
reveal and allow our partner inon what's going down for us.

Jacob O'Neill (10:55):
And we get better every time we do it. Yeah, like
your practice. You were soarticulate, then. Oh, my solar
plexus. Oh, that's my lack ofsafety. queasiness? Ah, that's
my sense of abandonment. Like,you might not have that
language. Yeah. But it's notabout the language, it's the
willing to share what's going onfor you. And it's not about
getting it right, or beingperfect. It's about having the

courage to be vulnerable.

Meg O'Neill (11:21):
And I would also say I am, I was very articulate
in that. And it's challengingsometimes when we're teaching
through words. Yeah. But I wouldsay, I'd love to hear what you
have to share in terms ofwitnessing me in moments like
this, I would say it's, it's notnecessarily about the words,
it's about revealing through thebody. Yeah,

Jacob O'Neill (11:40):
like your, your, your opening is a very embodied
experience, to witness. And thething that I keep coming back to
is like to open, you have tofirst accept that you're closed.
And that's the that's the thingis like, when you accept where
you're at, then you get tochoose what you do with that.
And when you bring, you know,it's not about oh, I've got to

go and sit for seven weeks andwork out what's going on inside.
We know that's, that's not it,they think the the time is now
like, this is the space, this isthe moment of transformation for
your relationship. It's themoment of vulnerability where it
actually fucking counts.

Meg O'Neill (12:21):
And I think another thing here, just if you're
struggling with defensiveness,are these patterns in your
conflict is noticing what youhave? What conditions you have
on your opening? Yes. So whatare you requiring from your
partner? And this can be verysubconscious. But what are you
requiring from your partner, inorder to open so do you need him

to say sorry, do you need him tobuy you flowers? Do you need him
to, you know, say sorry, again,for the thing he did last year
that you still are carryingresentment around, like
noticing, actually what whatconditions you're putting on
that opening. And this alsobecomes something that we need
to be devoted to, and I'mspeaking will actually speak to

both men and women here is thatwe need to dissolve those
conditions, or we need to speakthem into the space. And also
again, realize that it's ourpractice, if we're withholding
our openness from our partner,and waiting for them to tick all
these boxes before we offerthem. Our openness that is very
conditional love. That is a veryconditional, I would say

manipulative relationship,

Jacob O'Neill (13:31):
it's, it's approaching your like, like,
your, it's like your, your heartis locked in a vault and they
have to the thing that I keepcoming like you, you're
enforcing this belief that theymust earn your openness, through
through your through completingthe conditions that you put on

love. And it's the whole ideathat love is a currency. Yeah.
And that's not to say that youcan't build trust and deepen and
journey together in arelationship that's dedicated to
expansion, growth and all thosethings. But if you are
continually putting conditionson on your partner for them to
earn access to your heart, thatis that says a lot about you.

And that says a lot about whatyou need to work on. Because
vulnerability is a part ofrelationship. Vulnerability is
one of the essence. One of thekey things of relationship.
Yeah. And you know, you have aduty to be discerning and uphold
boundaries. But at the sametime, if you're continually like

layering on this checklist of hehas to he has to do this or she
has to do these 10 things beforeI even consider. You've created
a dynamic that is just it is ait's a lose lose.

Meg O'Neill (14:48):
Yeah. And using your again, using your closure
and openness as a tool ofmanipulation in relationship is
no no, that is not the doorwayto The type of intimacy that
each one of you listening iscraving, you wouldn't be here,
if you wanted a very traditionalrelationship you want and

traditional, I mean, not eventraditional. I mean, like, what
we normalize in society is agood relationship, like you're
here, because you want to breakthat fucking box and you want to
go so fucking deep, you'll feelso fucking mad. And that
requires you to choose openness,despite what's unfolding around

you. And again, I just want tobring it back to our personal
practice, like this is the depthof I would say feminine
embodiment, is how, like, yes,how closure is important. And we
learned so much from ourclosure, and we can learn deep
boundaries. And I'm not saying awoman has to I would say, this
is like the uninitiated femininewhen a woman's just walking

around and letting anyone inanything, access her energy and
thinking that that's openness.
No, that's not what I'm talkingabout. I'm talking about like
our own posture, our ownopenness to life, our own
surrender to letting life movethrough us. And if were
withholding that, from ourpartner, were withholding that
from ourself. So again, inmoments when I'm closed, and I'm

defensive, yes, I want to openfor you and fast but more. So I
want to open for me, I want tobring my body back into
liberation. I want to bring mybody back into the experience of
openness, you know, depth andexpansion.

Jacob O'Neill (16:28):
Oh, I think that's such a key point. My love
is like, your openness isn't foryour partner. It's for you, your
partner and your relationship.
Yeah, it's a win win win. Ifyou're not submitting to him.
You're not submitting to her.
You're honoring what's beneaththe story? Yeah. Oh. Okay.
That's a good one to start with.
How are we feeling? Next

Meg O'Neill (16:50):
question? I love that. Okay, next question,
please. How can I help?
Actually, let's go to thisquestion. Because it's, it's
almost like a deepening of wherewe've already. How do you choose
to keep your heart open inconflict? So this is almost
like, Okay, you talk aboutopenness. What does that
actually look like? And how canI take my body there in the

moment? So

Jacob O'Neill (17:15):
like, this is like, You're aware that like,
you close in points of conflict,you're aware of that. But you
want to know how to now stayopen when, when conflict or
tension arises, right?

Meg O'Neill (17:27):
Yeah. And I would almost say this person knows she
has the desire to open. Yep. Butshe just doesn't know how to
take herself there. Awesome. Sowhat does that look like?

Jacob O'Neill (17:37):
Pardon me, sir. I just keep yawning today. I don't
know what's going on. I was uptill midnight. So that probably
has a lot to

Meg O'Neill (17:45):
do I pass out law tend

Jacob O'Neill (17:47):
to you in bed at 1030. I didn't. Yeah,

Meg O'Neill (17:50):
I've got this new red light that I got for
Christmas. And I've been usingit on my face and it knocks me
out. You

Jacob O'Neill (17:55):
love that red light I love what can I do to
keep my heart open duringconflict? Yeah,

Meg O'Neill (18:03):
like, how do I'm gonna read the question again?
Yeah, how do you choose? So it'sthe choice point of and I'm
really seeing for this person.
It's like, they areacknowledging I'm closed. I want
to open how How do I open backup? How do I open my heart?

Jacob O'Neill (18:17):
The main thing that I am feeling and like, it's
like, let go. Yeah, let it go.
Let go, let go, let go, let go,let go let go, as I say in the
ice bath, like, Oh my God. Igotta get I gotta I gotta come
on, brother. Let go. I say thatto myself. But really, you're
letting go of control, you'reletting go of a perceived
outcome that suits you based onthe conditions that you've set.
And in that, when you let go,you can then begin the process

of opening. This is not I keepcoming back to this idea of
like, it's not a light switch.
You don't just hit on and off.
It's it's an unfurling andunfolding. It's a it's a, I
guess it's an expanding intoopenness. So that's what I
really want. Want to communicatefor this one is like, can you
let go of what you need it tolook like? Yeah. And can you let

the process of opening happenover a period of time, rather
than it being this condition? Ijust need to open to him. I
really force yourself to openrather than being like, hey,
openings, gonna take a bit oftime? Hey, how does how does sex
work for a woman it takes awhile for turn on to happen.
What happens for men when theywhen they need to emotionally

even take some time. So nowheart requires a little more
time. It's not logical, it'sdoesn't follow the rules of the
mind, it is much more in tunewith nature. It's much more in
tune with the journey ratherthan the destination. So for me,
that's the important piece isthat opening your heart is a
journey. And it's an importantpart of the process, not what

happens before the process.

Meg O'Neill (19:51):
and I would even add to that, like a beautiful
question. If we're looking at itfrom like, I'm here now and I
feel closed and maybe and forthose just listening I'm like
creating this space between myhands like the journey I'm here.
And then you know, point A topoint B, point B over here is
openness. If we look and go, I'mat point A, what's the first

step I can take to point B,what's the first step I can take
towards openness. And a very,very clear, or lifelike example
of this is say that you're inbed with your partner, and there
has been a moment of tensiongoing to bed and there's been

closure. Closure happens in thebody. So that's gonna happen in
our body language. So maybeyou've literally rolled over.
And now your back is to yourpartner, maybe there you've gone
from like touching each other tothen creating, you know, half a
meter of space or a meter ofspace, depending what size bed

you got. And so once you'renoticing the closure, you could
say, what's the first step toopening? I'm going to, I'm going
to take my body back towardshis, even though part of me is
like, Fuck him. I want him toapologize before I turn my heart
back to him better have noticedthat I wrote, yeah, I want him

to acknowledge what he didbefore I turn my body back to
him. This is the piece where wego. No, your personal practice
is to open without thoseconditions. In devotion, to deep
intimacy, right, your opennessis required. And so this I

practice is all the time,especially in moments where we
have that it's like, I can feelall the parts of me that don't
want to turn over. And I'm goingto turn over we're not saying
it's meant to be like, Oh, I'msuddenly cracked my heart open.
And I don't feel any tension orcontraction of my body. And I
just love this man with all myheart again. It's like no, that

that's gonna be greedy to turnback over. The ego is gonna be
like, fuck him, make himapologize. First, he doesn't
deserve your openness yet. Andthis is the this is the pattern
breaking moment where you chooseto roll back over, or you choose
to walk back into the room.
Maybe you stormed off orsilently walked off hoping that

he would notice or she wouldnotice. So the first step could
literally be Can I take my bodyback into the space where he is?
Or she is?

Jacob O'Neill (22:28):
100% for a man, this might be uncrossing your
arms. Yeah, this might be likemoving your hands from in front
of your body, to by your side.
It's just this subtle shift. Hesaid, like what is the next
step? Rather than focusing on Ineed to get to point B like,
what do I need to do next?
Alright, I've rolled over. He'sa dickhead he better realize
that he needs to do Sorry, withme, like, Hang on. What if I

actually like open my open myposture to him? And leant back
in just just enough to signalthat hey, I'm wanting to I'm
wanting to open here. Yeah, I'mwanting to deep in here. And
that's, that makes its it feelsso much more accessible.

Meg O'Neill (23:11):
Yeah, just that moment, what we do with our body
can open can shift the energy.
Yes, right. Yes. So when we'rechoosing even though a huge part
of us doesn't want to and hasthe conditions on the opening
and he he or she must apologizefirst and then I'll roll back
over and then I'll open when wechoose to roll back over first.
That is the doorway that's themoment that shifts that that's

the that's the portal to deeperconnection.

Jacob O'Neill (23:39):
Correct. Right.

Meg O'Neill (23:40):
We've just literally potentially shifted an
entire pattern.

Jacob O'Neill (23:46):
Yeah, that's and I want if you're a person that
is experiencing this and youcourageously roll back over
celebrate yourself, honor thatyou are rewriting a subconscious
program. There's probably beenthere since your fucking
childhood. Like you arerewriting a pattern and I want
to go big on this. I'm gonna getbig I'm looking straight at the

camera. I was like you'rerewriting that not just for
yourself. But for all that camebefore you and all that has come
like the way that you'remodeling. But your behavior is
setting a new standard for yourlineage. I don't know if that'll
lead that'll land is stronglyfor women. I know men really
like the idea of lineage andlegacy and we speak about that

Meg O'Neill (24:26):
we love that you love to break the motherfucking
chains. We shift Eleni HD thatis not just menswear, right

Jacob O'Neill (24:33):
on beloved sisters. That women's work
cranking. Oh, yeah, I'm gonnahave to come to a women's
retreat. No, no, no, that wascreepy. I won't do that. Sorry,
guys. I'll return to integrity.
But um, yeah, like celebratethose moments, right? Like, like
take a moment like fuck I didsomething that I haven't done
before like and I think thosemicro wins are what fucking move

the needle and have you all of asudden being like, Fuck, I'm
where I want to be. In myrelationships, I didn't know
that this was, I didn't knowthat this was going to happen. I
know that this was possible, Itruly didn't believe I was ever
going to get to point B, Ididn't ever believe this was
available. But because I choseto do the little things, and
celebrate those micro moments oflike, leaning back in, turning

back into the posture ofopenness like that. That, to me
is where the value is. And, youknow, I think so many other
industry, like so many otherareas of this industry, whether
it's in personal training, orwhether it's in diet, or whether
it's in rewriting subconscious,or all of these other things.
They talk about consistency ofthe little things, getting the

little things right, yeah. Andin relationship, when we talk
about opening our heart when wedo it, and we do it, you know,
we do those little moments,right. And I mean, like, are it
like, right, like, that's thepath, the rite of passage into a
deeper relationship. And we dothat right. Over time, we can't
help but experience what it isthat we've always desired. Oh,

that's awesome. To celebrateyourself. Yeah.

Meg O'Neill (26:04):
And it is that consistency of showing up to
those moments again, and again,this, these kinds of, you know,
we we have immersive experiencesfor couples or for men and for
women, like, we are all fortransformational experiences,
deep work, having support. Andlike you say, you speak about

the work, you need to take thatfucking work down off the
mountain and into your reallife. And so just because you've
listened to this podcast, all 60episodes, or however many were
in, just because you're in fullspectrum woman, just because
you're in seventh and sacred orworking, the gathering of man,
or whatever it is. Yes, thatdeeply transformational

experiences, but if you're notshowing up to your life, with
that gold, and in the embodiedpractice of that work, you're
not going to experience theshifts, you deeply want to where
it fucking matters. There'sgoing to be little dopamine hits
of transformational work. Likeyou need to bring that into your
life into the moments in thebedroom where you're not using

your voice. And you really wantto enter the moments of conflict
when you've rolled over or youstormed out of them into the
room. Like it's it's it's thecourage the transformation
happens by walking your ass backinto that room. Right. And
there's the vulnerability

Jacob O'Neill (27:26):

Meg O'Neill (27:28):
Next question.

Jacob O'Neill (27:29):
Next question.

Meg O'Neill (27:30):
I just want it sorry, I just want to add one
more thing.

Jacob O'Neill (27:32):
One more thing?

Meg O'Neill (27:32):
Yeah. I just think we set it in the first the
answer to the first questiontoo, is like, as you're rolling
over and facing your partner,you're allowed to say, this is
so hard like this, like, everyounce of me wants to just like,
keep my back to you. But I'm,I'm gonna open like, Oh, my part
of me that wants you to saysorry. And then I just realized,

like, I've got to open beforeand get that or I'm choosing to
be devoted to connecting back inwith you. And I also just want
to say, it's not as if we'resaying, like, bypass shit your
partner does without an apology.
No, but there's a differencebetween when were, you know,
when something is really needingto be apologize for versus when
we're being defensive. And, youknow, I'm just assuming and

guessing the difference.

Jacob O'Neill (28:19):
And like, when you do that, you've done it,
because you're a bit of arollover, and because, like,
I'll come, I'll come to that.
But also, there's also a reasonthat you're closed, right? Yeah,
there's a story there. There'sthere is an element of truth to
what happened. There's all thesethings that we need to get to
the we need to get to, but thefirst step really is like that
returning to a posture ofopening. Yeah. And, yeah, I just
know, when you're rolling.

Unknown (28:43):
You just come to bed.
Like, I just really want us totalk to you. I don't want to sit
down with Peter. And you saidyou're gonna be you're really
into your work right now. Yeah,we

Meg O'Neill (28:55):
can make art out of the rollover, right. Yeah. And I
think the role of things I'mmost proud of in our
relationship is that I rollover,I might have a moment. But that
moment will be a moment in time.
Yes, like a moment in time.

Jacob O'Neill (29:10):
And really, what you're, what we're looking for
is a connection, we're lookingfor a deeper connection. And
like, in that moment, maybe I'veworked a little later than I
normally would, and I'm on fireand like, I'm, I'm passionate
right now, like, my vision iscalling me my purpose is calling
me in a way that never hasbefore. And I'm going to be
spending more time working. Andthat's, that means that I'm
spending less time with you. Andwe've had that experience where

I have been in that season. Andwhat has come about is like, Ah,
I haven't communicated just howdeeply real this vision is for
me right now and how deeplyembodied I am in pursuing it.
And you've also haven'tcommunicated how I want to spend
time with you. Hey, it'simportant because I and I need
to hear that anymore. I

Meg O'Neill (29:52):
always sound whiny Yeah.

Jacob O'Neill (29:54):
It's the cutest, because like you because you do
you have to play. You'dconsciously choose that
archetype of like, Hey, this isme. I'm little and cute. And I
want I love that. Yeah. Ratherthan trying to say, it's me or
work, you know, you invite me.
So what I'm doing is like, hey,like, this is calling me in a
way that never has before. I'mreally here to be like, I, I
need a woman in my corner thatbelieves in me to trust me. And

I can see that if I don't maketime for you. And I try to
operate like this, then in fiveyears time, if this is how I'm
operating, then we're not goingto have a relationship. So I
want to make sure that I'mhonoring you and me and us.
Yeah. So hey, I'm going to findtime. I'm going to make time
because you're a priority. Andthen the opening, opening

opening? Oh, yeah, I amimportant to you. And I'm like,
You're the most fuckingimportant woman in the world.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's beautiful toit's beautiful. What comes from
that one micro moment? It reallyis the spark that ignites the

Meg O'Neill (30:53):
Well, we save from conflict to deeper connection.
And that's only possible whenyou stop playing that, in that
playing that game, or in thatparadigm of my partner is my
enemy. Yeah. And it got to memore devoted to connecting and
experiencing intimacy and yourpartnership than winning. And a
lot of people aren't willing todo that. Exactly. A lot of
people value ego and winningYes. Over, I want to feel deeply

connected. And that's that'sconfronting to be with. Like,
I'd be with that. Okay, nextquestion,

Jacob O'Neill (31:23):

Meg O'Neill (31:24):
how can I help my partner understand that I need
him to be present to listen? Doyou hear that? So how can I help
my partner understand that Ineed him to be present to

Jacob O'Neill (31:44):
How can I help my partner understand that I need
him to be present to listen.

Meg O'Neill (31:57):
Do you want me to jump in?

Jacob O'Neill (31:58):
I think this is yeah, because I'm okay. I'm sort
of hung up on the wordunderstand right now. And I just
need to

Meg O'Neill (32:03):
I would say, taking yours I would speak to this
woman. And I would say, feelinto the last a woman Woman
feeling to the last moment whereyou felt like he was listening
or hearing you. I would say hewas hearing your words. But he
wasn't present. So he wasn'tdeeply listening to what you

were saying. Yes. And so maybethat I would tune into what that
looked like was that you were atdinner, and he was picking up
his phone and scrolling? Was itthat he was sitting there with
you? And he looked like he waspresent? But you could tell his
mind was somewhere else? Or wasit that you know, you're in?
Yeah, you're in the home. Andhe's you know, distracted by

doing other things when you'rereally having something
important to say. So I would getclear on what that felt like.
And then I would express that tohim, I would say, hey, in some
moments like, or it's reallyimportant to me to feel like
really heard. That's, that'ssomething I really want out of

our relationship I want I wantto really feel that you're,
you're hearing me, yes. And Iwant a space where I can just
like feel, like so heard and soseen. And sometimes there's
moments where I know you'rehearing my words, but I don't
actually feel that you're reallydeeply listening to what I'm

saying, or I don't actually feelheard in those moments and seen
in those moments. And this isbecause sometimes you might be,
I feel like you're a little bitdistracted, you're scrolling
your phone, or you're, you know,watching TV. You know, and this
is a very, you know, clear wayof expressing that. You can

bring many different flavors tothis, then if you want to bring
as a woman, like the depth ofyour longing and yearning for
his presence, you could saylike, I just want you to focus
one thing I want moments whereyou focus just 1,000% of your
energy on me and I just feellike the only thing in this
space and like, you're just likepenetrating me with the depth of

your presence.

Jacob O'Neill (34:16):
How would you do that with your body?

Meg O'Neill (34:19):
I would

Jacob O'Neill (34:22):
lean into that when we speak on full spectrum
woman today about the dark fam.

Meg O'Neill (34:27):
Yeah, I was and it's hard to do this because of
the mic position. So let me facethis way instead. You only
express this in words for thoselistening to I would feel like
my longing as I connect to thatlonging for your presence. Like
I feel it in my pussy. I feellike it's this like, I want to

be consumed by you. And it alsojust like one, I just want like
all of your attention on me. AndI just feel like I can feel that
energy like so deeply in myposts. See
and there's also this likeelement here of like this like,

sassy part of me that's likefucking listen not even sassy
but like this commanding ofenergy like, mother fucking
listen to me. And there's thatalso like this energy that comes
from my pussy that's like I am awoman that will come Monjo
mother fucking attention. You donot let you do not look at your

phone. You do not watch the TVwhen I'm expressing myself.

Jacob O'Neill (35:38):
That's fucking hot. It's like I got lost. I
can't not look at you right now.
I can't not be consumed. I'mdrawn in. Yeah, like, just like,
the posse opens and drawers inthe car. It's like you're
drawing me in with that, that?
That powerful feminine energy.
Yeah. And we've been speaking onpolarity. If I've been speaking
on polarity so much with all thedudes in savage and sacred and

like, fuck, we've been talkingabout some cool shit in there
for any guys that want to behaving great conversations with
men who value depth andmasculine leadership, like, Come
and join us. We have the bestfucking conversations, we talk
about how the darkness draws inthe light. And one of the
qualities of the light masculineis presence. So how are you

going to draw in His presence?
If you want him to be present?
How do you draw that in withyour dark fam? And what you just
did then was like thisundulation in the cycle? Here, I
command your presence. I didn'tI you don't demand that you
command it. Yeah, I will not.
There is nothing that can takemy place right now there is

nothing that is more moreimportant than what I have to be
in this moment. And thetransmission that is moving
through me. The phone actuallydissolves in his hand and he
can't not You can't not put itdown. Yeah, the TV like the TV
becomes annoyingly loud, yougotta turn it down, like focus.

Yeah, he will turn to you. Andthat is, I think that's a
beautiful quality of the darkfeminine that we that we can
like really celebrate more. Andnot and because like, you know,
we the too much wound comes outtoo much I have, but I do want
him to listen, I do want to bepresent. It's like, you get to
command that presence with thepower of your policy.

Meg O'Neill (37:25):
And we were talking about this in full spectrum
woman this morning, one of thewomen asked because you were on
the call today. And one of thewomen asked like I want I can
see something for my partner andI want to do it in a loving way.
I want to be kind with the way Isay it. No wonder she didn't use
the word Klein, but I could hearthat pot. It was like
acquainting love and kindnessand love and like, being nice.

Yes. And sometimes love isfucking fierce. Sometimes love
has to be transmitted throughour longing and our fire or, you
know, the fierce parts of us,especially as a woman, right, we
have a full spectrum of flavors.
And sometimes our man needs willsometimes we just as the

embodiment need to bring throughlove in different flavors. And
it's going to be heard and feltand received by our man in a
different way. And so love cancome through every single
texture of ourself, it can comethrough the crazy bit, you can
come through the sassy one, itcan come through, you know, the
dragon full of rage, it couldcome through the Gopi, you know,

innocent made and kind of, youknow, it can come through all of
them. And we this is where itbecomes creative and playful,
and you get to choose. And alsoyou get to experiment. Right?
And it's courageous toexperiment with these different

Jacob O'Neill (38:50):
I've got a model for this by the way. Do you want
it? Can

Meg O'Neill (38:53):
I just share one more thing?

Jacob O'Neill (38:54):
Sorry, I don't I made that about me. That was
That was That was rude. Sorry. Iwas just when you're speaking
I'm literally seeing in mymind's eye how this is all
flowing. When you said the maidand ours? Yes, it gets me
excited to draw. I just thinklike, like we, we like feeding
that like feeding each other.
Like that, to me is soimportant. To get some

strawberries and some chocolateand feed that feeding each other
with that dark energy of thefeminine. The masculine is so
fucking powerful.

Meg O'Neill (39:24):
I think we need to do a whole podcast on like, what
because I'm sure there's somepeople listening being like, I'm
actually unsure of what, what,what the transmission of that
looks like or what the qualitiesof that are. So that's always
poor compensation. Well,

Jacob O'Neill (39:36):
I just want to share like a little bit of what
I shared was like, you know, ifif I'm going out with with my
mates to go and have a beer andI'm going somewhere, right? And
you come to me and you're like,you know I'm going to be out
there you know, I'm going to bewith my mates having fun doing
something and you're like I Ineed him to know that he is
mine. I need I needed to knowwhat he's coming home to and if

you Like it just I love her. I'mout cadaver case and you come
over to me, and you grabbed meby the throat, and you clog up
my chest. You make out with me,grab me by the caulk and
squeeze. And then you say, havefun. I'll be here when you get
home. And if you just turnaround and walk away and just
strip off or just walk intoanother room, I will not be I

will not be okay. I will be likewhat the fuck just happened,
right? Like that level ofcommand that comes from the dark
fam. And you can do that inwhatever way suits you. That's
just like a bit of my fantasy.
Like, when I leave I want I wantto know that I'm coming home to
a wild woman. Yeah. And likethat will keep me tethered to
you like Fuck, man, I'm, I'mhaving fun. But I'm also know
what's what's awaiting me.

Meg O'Neill (40:43):
And it's almost a bit of feminine testing that
like, again, we spoke about thison full spectrum woman this
morning, where there is atendency of the feminine to
manipulate total, and that canbe done unconsciously or
consciously. Because there is anelement of manipulation. If I
did that, yeah, when I've donethat, you know, because it's
almost like, I want to show youthat I am better than anything
you taste done in the world.
Yeah. I'm going to show you thatyou choosing to go out for a few

hours. You know, this is whatyou're missing out on. Yeah. And
I used to do that a lot when youused to go to jujitsu a lot. And
I'd like sometimes I do it in areally cutesy way. Other times
I'd do it in like a, you know,like a more of that dark seventh
time. But yeah, that this iswhere we can become, like
anything brought into the lightand way that I mean, like it's

no longer playing out in ourshadows. Yes, we then get to
creatively consciously playwith. And so, you know, anytime
Jacob is speaking about one ofthose things, it's not then
yeah, these are all consciousthings we're playing with to
keep the relationship alive andand to keep for me to keep me
alive. And you alive. And justlike the the energy

Jacob O'Neill (41:52):
grades polarity polarity feeds. Yeah, sure.
Like, that's what passion.
That's what passion comes from,from polarity.

Meg O'Neill (41:57):
And I would say it's beyond polarity. Because I
think polarity is also like, forme as a woman. I'm not just
doing that for the polarizationof the relationship. I'm doing
that because if I deny flavorsof myself, I deny my power. And
I deny my aliveness. So yes,it's in service to polarity. But
I also think it's in service tojust the aliveness of the

individuals in the relationship.

Jacob O'Neill (42:21):
Massively. Yeah, definitely. I agree. Okay.

Meg O'Neill (42:26):
And I just wanted to bring one final thing that I
forgot and that I filled outagain, is, I would be Sophie
come back to this question is,how can I help my partner
understand that I need him to bepresent to listen, and I was
taking that woman into themoment of like, remember the
last time you felt that way?
Connect into the texture of thatfeeling? Were you angry? Did you
feel dropped? Did you feel likedisappointed? Was there this

sassy part of you? That was likemotherfucker, listen to me. And
like, connect into that? Andthen can you amplify that in a
conscious way? Not in aprojected way? Not in a? You
know? I'm blaming you and youdon't listen, and you're there?
No, but can you bring this likecreative aspect into that or
bring a flavor alive? Which kindof like matches that that

texture? Or that that imprint?
Oh, next question.

Jacob O'Neill (43:17):
Next question, please.

Meg O'Neill (43:21):
Have we Okay,

Jacob O'Neill (43:23):
we have time

Meg O'Neill (43:25):
working on my relationships so hard for many
years. Don't feel much loveleft? When is it time? And I'm
assuming when is it time to cometo completion? Or when is the
time to call it

Jacob O'Neill (43:44):
I think like hearing that, like there's a
part of me, it's like, I thinkyou already know. I agree that
that breaks my heart. Yeah, itbreaks my heart to receive
messages like that. But at thesame time, it's like what's what
what truth aren't you willing tolike really, really own? What

truth and you're willing toreally, really own? And for me
that's like, it sounds likeyeah, the heart has been like
death by 1000 cuts like willingto really actually let your
heart break Can you smell it?

Meg O'Neill (44:23):
Yeah, I was trying not to last through that. Yeah,
sorry. I'll dogs fight it again.
It's bad. Sick Yeah, I agreewith that. I feel even just you
know, there's always deepercontext and deeper you know, but
from from the way that questionsbeen worded, I would say, you
know, working on it so hard formany years. Don't feel much love

left. I can almost hear anasking of like, permission.
Yeah, like, is it okay, am Igiving up?

Jacob O'Neill (44:57):
What I would say you keep going about it in Yeah,

Meg O'Neill (45:00):
would say relationships require work. And
I think sometimes a relationshipthat feels like it could end,
when placed in certaintransformational spaces or
containers or in with certainpractitioners can reawaken when
a couple is equipped with thetools, they can literally bring

relationships, not even back tolife, but into a whole new
paradigm of relating. Oh, and Itruly believe that isn't the
case for every relationship.
Sometimes, when we do the work,we realize that this is actually
a mismatched a mismatchrelationship, or I desire
different things from thisperson, or this person can't

meet me. And instead ofthrowing, you know, more money,
more time, more resources, moreenergy into that relationship,
there is a point at which we doneed to call it and say this is
complete. Yeah, and that takesso much courage, especially in
long term relationships,especially if you've had a

shared vision for a really longtime. Like, I'm not denying the
fact that this is going to be avery challenging, courageous
decision. And yet, I feel likethis person knows it is the
decision and it is the nextstep.

Jacob O'Neill (46:21):
And the the the invitation and my prayer for
people that are in thisposition, the person that's
asked this question is, like, myprayers, like deeply choose
yourself. Above everything else,deeply choose yourself and your
truth. And from that place, youwill experience the liberation.

And liberation isn't always acomfortable feeling. It requires
requires like a depth offeeling, what what is what is
beneath the surface. But whatcomes from that, you know, I've
gotten many men through thisexperience, this this exact
experience. And I'm happy to saythat I would argue every time
that I've gotten a man throughthis, this this death, or this

letting go or this acceptance,or this deep choosing of self
every time I've guided himthrough that, through that
initiatory passage. What is onthe other side has been truly
fucking spectacular. And itmight not have looked the way
you thought it was gonna look.
But it feels greater than youcould ever fucking imagined.
It's the feeling that you'vebeen aching for, for however
long you've been in this workingon trying to get to to try try,

try. So yeah, just want to honorwhoever sent that question. I
know that whoever's in thatposition where you've where you
can feel the truth of acompletion coming for a
relationship? Yeah, like it'snot easy. No, no, heartbreak is
not easy. But if it's, if it'swhat you're being called to, and
that's the truth, like, the moreyou're able to accept it and

meet it and bring it online.
What's available on the otherside is like all you've ever
really, really wanted. So ourwhole

Meg O'Neill (47:57):
and something I always say, and I speak to women
about this and the path of thefeminine. But I would say you
would say the same about men andthe masculine. I say walking the
path of the feminine is notconvenient. Like if you're
choosing to, when I say walk thepath of the feminine it means to
be an embodied woman to be awoman that's, you know, pussy

led that's connected to herdesires that is, is in devotion
to truth, like the truth oflife, the truth that wants to
move through her and where shehas been guided. And this means
that if you are on that path,you are going to be asked to do
things that don't always feelconvenient, that don't always

feel comfortable. That cansometimes be heartbreaking, or
don't necessarily make sense.
You know, death and rebirth is ahuge part of you know, what it
means to be a woman and what itmeans to you know, walk the path
of the feminine, so yeah,trusting that and knowing that
like, Fuck, this isn'tcomfortable. This isn't

convenient, but this is true.

Jacob O'Neill (49:06):
This is uncomfortable. This isn't
convenient. This is true. Thatwas beautiful. My love.

Meg O'Neill (49:13):
Thank you.

Jacob O'Neill (49:14):
Thank you for sharing that.

Meg O'Neill (49:19):
I feel like I've done does that feel like enough
for today? I feel like thatfeels like enough today. Yeah,
that was beautiful. I reallyloved that conversation. Yeah,

Jacob O'Neill (49:30):
This work can be really, really sensitive
sometimes. And I just want tohonor everyone that's willing to
listen to this podcast and thengo and do do what they need to
do in their relationship intheir life. You know, being
human can can be a bit confusingsometimes in this modern world.
And I think it's, you know, Ijust come back from a four day
retreat and a man doing a men'sretreat and doing some deep work

and I uncovered something fromwhen I was 21. That was
devastating. I've touched ontrauma sitting in my body. And I
went through the grief of ofmoving through that. And it was,
you know, I've been doing thiswork for a while. And it was one
of the most incredibly healingand liberating experiences, but
also one of the hardest thingsI've ever had to go through. And

I just want to just like, I justwant to stop for a moment and
honor everyone that's, that hasthe courage to lean into the
next step, whatever that is, foryou, the next courageous act,
that whatever that is for youcan be as small as a pebble or
as large as a as a mountain,whatever that is, like, I just

applaud you and I celebrate you.
And I just want you to know thatI deeply honored and grateful
for the world that you'recreating through these
courageous acts and therelationships that are
happening. And you know, theworld that the that the children
and the next generation will getto get to experience because of,
of the work that we do. It'syeah, it's incredibly humbling.
I love you.

Meg O'Neill (50:58):
I love you.

Jacob O'Neill (50:59):
There's been a really, really beautiful way to
end this podcast. I

Meg O'Neill (51:01):
feel so, so grateful. I'm just really like
internally beaming right now.

Jacob O'Neill (51:07):
Yeah, guys. Do we need to say anything about the
podcast party?

Meg O'Neill (51:12):
Yeah, say something about the podcast, buddy.

Jacob O'Neill (51:14):
So if you wanting to come and hang with us,
because you're listening to us,probably in your car, in your
headphones. If you want to comeand actually spend some time
live with us on the second ofMarch, we're doing a live
podcast recording. It's more ofa party.

Meg O'Neill (51:29):
I know. We call it a potty. Here it

Jacob O'Neill (51:32):
comes your You thought you're letting me do
this. Do you want to share?
We've got a log panel happening.

Meg O'Neill (51:37):
We do have a live panel. And I'll just reveal
who's on it now because Iprobably could have revealed
once this podcast out. Yeah, butwe're gonna have a live sex
panel with two guests that havealready been on the podcast, my
dear friends, Elena Hadley andLola Ricci. Oh, so the fellow
sex educators and tantric sexcoaches and yeah, so me and

those two women are going to behaving a panel we're going to be
taking live questions from Yeah,those live in the space. Then
you and I are going to do a liverelationship q&a And also live
teaching. Yes. Which is going tobe so fun. We're gonna have live
music with an epic epic epichuman. Epic food. I'm so excited
I selfishly just wanted thisfood truck there because I'm so

excited for this food. We hadthis food at our wedding and
it's like insane we're gonnahave some people's favorite part
about wedding the final year.

Jacob O'Neill (52:27):
We're gonna have fresh kombucha on tap. amazing

Meg O'Neill (52:31):
we've had prizes donated. One of them is a splash
blanket from Yoni pleasurepalace. So for those of you that
don't know what a splash blanketis, it's like a blanket that is
literally waterproof. So you cansquirt all over and squat you
can come you can do whatever theany, any any juices or anything
all over it. And it will absorbit, it will wash it.

Jacob O'Neill (52:57):
Keep your bed keep any of your linens safe.

Meg O'Neill (53:01):
And then there's about we're giving away some
things, some of the othercollaborators are giving away
some things so it's just goingto be such a fun night. By the
time you're listening to this,it's probably days or a week
away. So come and grab yourticket. It's here on the Gold
Coast, drive down from Brisbanedrive up from Byron fly in from
New Zealand come here but thehell you come hang and then the
day after we have our intimacyimmersion. So this is just for

couples, this is actually goingto be in our home. So it's a
very intimate event. So we'vejust got limited tickets
available for that. So if by thetime you're listening to this,
there's still tickets left. Comeand join us for a day that is
like deeply devoted to yourrelationship. We're going to be
splitting off doing some men'swork with Jacob women's work
with me coming back together,your relationship will truly

leave our home different I can Iwill guarantee that such

Jacob O'Neill (53:48):
a beautiful I'm just saying it's just gonna be a
deep ceremony of opening to moreand more love more and more
intimacy more and more passionmore and more devotion in the
union with your your beloved.
So, so excited and it's going tobe it's going to be incredible.

Meg O'Neill (54:02):
So either DMS for ticket links or head to the show
notes below and all the shownotes will be there. Or head to
the link in our bio. We loveyou. Thanks for being here. We
truly adore creating theseconversations for you every
single week. So thank you.

Jacob O'Neill (54:17):
This is my favorite parts of the week. My
love podcasting with me. Yeah,

Unknown (54:21):
I love ya. Love ya.

Jacob O'Neill (54:23):
Bye peace.
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