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May 1, 2024 80 mins

What does it truly mean to differentiate arousal from desire?

In this episode, we welcome returning guest, Eleanor Hadley, as she discusses the intricacies of desire, arousal, and the misconceptions surrounding sexual response.

Join Meg and Eleanor dive into insights and personal reflections, providing actionable advice on how individuals can more accurately interpret their body's signals and communicate their needs and desires more effectively.

They also riff off on:

 • The difference between desire and arousal, and how they are separate but related concepts
• The idea of responsive desire versus spontaneous desire, and how most women experience responsive desire 
• The brakes and accelerators analogy for understanding how our sexual inhibition and excitation systems work
• Taking sex "off the table" to help women feel more comfortable being intimate without pressure or expectation of sex
• The importance of understanding our own personal brakes (turn offs) and accelerators (turn ons)
• How sensitive our brakes and accelerators are impacts our experience of sexuality
• Mapping our bodies through self-pleasure to better understand and communicate our own pleasure zones

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AND… it would mean the world to us if you rated & reviewed the show.
We carefully read each and every review, and we love hearing about your experience with the podcast!

⚡️Let’s Stay Connected: 

IG: @the.meg.o @thejacoboneill @sexloveeverythinginbetween

⚡ Connect with Eleanor Hadley:
Enroll in Tongue Tactics:

⚡ Want more? Here are some of the offerings & courses you can join us in…

The Desire Date: A sexy date night experience for couples ready to re-ignite passion & deepen intimacy. --->

Ignite Your Intimacy: A 4 week course for couples ready for a sexier, wilder, more ALIVE relationship… NOW! --->

Jacob & Meg also coach individuals & couples. Reach out to them via Instagram for more information. 

#libido #desire #relationshipadvice 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
On thirst or hunger, like ourbody is like, oh, I need that.

But it's often I need that tolive, right? We're not going to
die from a lack of sex and mightfeel like it. But we're not
going to like the populationeventually will, but it's fine.
But the body is not going to belike, Oh my god, I simply cannot
function anymore. Whereasarousal is the physical
manifestation of desire in thebody. So it's this more like

psychological thing of like, Oh,I feel a desire for sex, I want
to move towards sex and thatphysical sensation, and because
I am desiring it, now, my bodyis responding in the ways of
arousal. And so arousal couldlook like flushed cheeks, it
could look like a foster heartrate, it could look like an

erection, it could look like awetter policy. It could look
like your rectum nipples, thingslike this. These are the
physical manifestation ofdesire. And what often happens
is that we conflate the two andwe go, okay, well, if I'm not
dripping wet, I mustn't desiresex. Or if I don't desire sex,
but I am drifting when maybe Ido, and we kind of we mix up the

signals between our brain andour body. Yeah. And so to begin
with, I think it's important torecognize that they are separate
things. And we have this conceptcalled arousal non concordance,
which is where our body might bephysically aroused, while
mentally we are not. Or viceversa. We might be mentally

aroused, but physically, not wemight be mentally having that
desire for sex, but our bodyisn't necessarily responding in
that way. Yeah, and not gettinghard or not getting as wet. And
that's why it's really importantto have this connection with
your body. So that you and yourmind, and so you can check in
and go Am I really desiring sexright now? Is this something

that I want to be doing? And isit my mind or my body that's
getting in the way? Or is itactually a full body? Yes, like,
I want to do this.
Yo, yo, yo lovers, welcome.
Welcome. Welcome to sex, loveand everything in between where
the O'Neill's you're here withMeg and Jacob. And

this is the place we have reallyuncensored conversations about
sex, intimacy and relationships.
We're super excited. You'rehere. Enjoy this episode.
How are Eleanor Hadley? Hi,welcome back.

I'm so happy to be back.
You are officially our mostfrequented get mess. I was gonna
say most guested guest I don'tthink that makes sense. Yes.
Guest his guest we've had Thankyou. Welcome back.
Such a pleasure to be here.
I'm so excited to chat today.
You're officially here becauseit's episode 69. And Jacob and I

were contemplating what wewanted to do for that. And Jacob
said, you should get Eleanor youand her should collaborate on
episode to be me. And I reallyappreciate that. I love that I
was top of mind when it comes. Ijust feel like that's like when
the branding is strong.

Oh my gosh,I feel like I see 69 everywhere
several times a day up to like,at least 12 times a day. I
see your angel number 16.
Everyone else is out thereseeing 1111 You're just like
1616 everywhere. Yeah, I loveit. Okay, epic. For those of you
that haven't heard Elena on thepodcast before, you're gonna

want to head back. And I don'tknow the exact numbers, but
we'll put them in the shownotes. Eleanor joined us to
really bring her gifts aroundhow to become a pussy Pro. How
to like pussy really well. Andthen how to become a BJ queen.
Those episodes went off.

They were so much fun as well.
They were fun I've had on apodcast interview. Yay. It was
so fun. And that was the startof our friendship.
That was it started off right.
And we literally looked at eachother after that. He said that
exactly. I love it. If you havepotentially listened to that

episode, that episode is nowavailable to watch on YouTube,
which I highly recommend becauseyou had all of the tools and we
will lick and lollipops and wewere we really the visuals
necessary. So go and watchothers on YouTube. We'll link
them below. But today we want tohave a conversation around
libido and sex drive. Yeah,specifically specifically for

women but I'm sure we're goingto extend it out as well. For
me, and I'd love to hear whatthis looks like for you in your
work. But this is one of thethings that so many women come
to me experiencing challengeswith and really feeling broken.
Yeah, like really feeling thesense of my libido isn't there

and not feeling like I have asex drive. Like there's really
this texture of like brokenness.
Yeah, then. Yeah, it has a womanexperiencing brokenness because
of how she's viewing orexperiencing her sex drive. So
I'd love to hear what that lookslike in your work. And yeah, the
work you do in the world.

I feel like this is the mostcommon topic that people come to
us with. I've spoken to lots ofother sex educators and coaches
about this. And it's, it'snumber one, everybody has this
experience of people in theirDMS or clients saying, I feel
broken. I don't desire sex asmuch as my partner or I desire

sex more than my partner, orthere's just this mismatch and
it just doesn't feel quite,quite right as though we should
be horny 24/7. And if when not,or if our partner or we desire
sex more than the other thanthere must be something wrong.
And it's just the fact that wehaven't been educated properly

around how desire works, howlibido is kind of created. And
it's just it's, it's aconversation that needs to be
had, because we don't understandit about ourselves.
Yes, I also think and I see thisso so often in women, the same
with arousal, like feeling like,Oh, I'm not if they're in a

heterosexual partnership orlover ship, or like, I'm not
ready for sex as soon as he'sready for sex and submit
something must be wrong with me,like I'm broken and that there
is such an I think we as womenare really taught to view
ourselves and our bodies and ourexperience of our bodies through
that lens of brokenness, likethat's how we're really
conditioned that this can beYeah, really, it can create such

painful women when I love thatyou said that I think we've
libido desire arousal, it isreally like a lack of education.
It's so often not your broken,it's, you just haven't yet
learnt the instrument of yourbody you haven't learned learn
the truth behind what it takesfor your sex drive to come
alive. Absolutely.
Because it's like you're notbroken, the education system is

broken. We haven't learnedexactly what it is that we need,
and how our body should respond.
We just sort of take on all ofthese messages from society or
from TV shows that like that'sthe typical script, okay, you're
making out it's like all hot andheavy and then clothes come off
and then boom inside and theycome within like a minute. Does

that like that makes me angrywhen I see that now
so deeply angry.
I get so angry. Even one of theshows that I love is Outlander.
Okay, washed Outlander. I havenot okay. It's really sexy. It's
like a great show. But still,the sex scenes in Atlanta drive
me crazy because they're fuckingwithin five seconds. And I'm

like, I just really think thatand sometimes that can be the
truth but so often for a womanthat is that is not how that is
not how her body works. That'snot how our arousal works that
often we need a lot more timeand I get in TV shows and movies
show and our dolphin foreplay.
But yeah, it does it It anchorsand drives home this story that

that's what sex should looklike. Yeah, if you are yet you
should be hunting, you should beready to be penetrated within 30
secondsand you'll come within Yeah, a
few minutes as well. At the sametime, I'll totally always like
it. When things like this, youknow, I understand. Yeah, sure.
You're creating a for TV. Andit's not like you can have like

a 45 minute scene. Yeah. Butalso, editing exists, like this
is always a choice. Yeah, it'salways a choice by whoever's
writing it that we're going tojust suddenly lead up to it and
it'll be quite quick like you'rewriting that you're the one
who's decided that that's howthe scene is going to play out.
And it's very simple for you tojust fucking write it

differently and edit it in a waywhere it's like oh, we can tell
time has passed and he's stillthere in or out 45 minutes later
we can see the signs we couldhave that depiction of it. And
and there's like longer sense ofbuildup. But because we don't

get that shown to us like Whereelse are we going to see it? And
it's no wonder that if peopleout there like oh, well I feel
like I'm broken. I feel like Ishould be awake wet and dripping
immediately. Or I feel like Ishould be able to jump on my
partner as soon as they get homebecause of their money. Um, but
I'm not. I think that, you know,if we're not seeing any
depictions of what it reallylooks like for a lot of people

to experience desire andarousal, which are two different
things, it makes sense that youmight think that you're broken,
because you haven't seen thatrepresentation. And that's why
these conversations areimportant. So you can actually
learn, oh, no, I'm not broken.
This is actually incrediblycommon. And we just need to
create a vocabulary between meand my partner, so that we
understand the ways in which weneed to be initiated into sex,

the ways in which we desire sex,and that it's not necessarily
that if I don't feel desire atthe same time in the same way as
you, that's not indicative of Idon't find you sexy. Yeah,
that's where a lot of people go.
They're like, Oh, well, if youdon't want sex right now, like I
do. I'm craving you. You mustn'tbe craving me. Oh, my God, you

hate me. Totally.
You no longer attracted to me.
Something's up here. Yeah, yeah.
Okay, let's I love that you saiddesire. And arousal are two
different things. Because I'dlove to deepen into that. So
let's, let's speak into desireand, you know, sex drive and
libido. Yeah. Yeah, what do yousee, and I know, this is such a
nuanced, we've spoken about thisoff, you know, off screen that

this is such a nuanced topic,because even things like
hormones and health can, youknow, play into this, but I'd
love to hear what you really seeas some of the bigger factors
that are, you know, maybeespecially for women are, you
know, creating or influencingtheir sex drive and desire.
So first things first is I'dlike to sort of just clarify the

distinction between desire andarousal, because often these
terms get used entertainmentinterchangeably, libido, and sex
drive as well, again, it usedinterchangeably. But when it
comes to desire and arousal,these are two separate things.
So desire is akin to hunger orthirst is a drive for sex. Well,

technically, sex isn't like adrive, because it's not
something that we're going todie without thirst or hunger,
like, our body is like, oh, Ineed that. But it's often I need
that to live, right? We're notgoing to die from a lack of sex.
And I feel like, we're not goingto like the population
eventually will, but it's fine.
But the body is not going to belike, Oh, my God, I simply

cannot function anymore. Whereasa arousal is the physical
manifestation of desire in thebody. So it's this more like
psychological thing of like, Oh,I feel a desire for sex, I want
to move towards sex and thatphysical sensation, and because
I am desiring it, now, my bodyis responding in the ways of

arousal. And so arousal couldlook like flushed cheeks, it
could look like a faster heartrate. It could look like an
erection, it could look like awetter policy. It could look
like election nibbles, thingslike this. These are the
physical manifestations ofdesire. And what often happens
is that we conflate the two andwe go, okay, well, if I'm not

dripping wet, I mustn't desiresex. Or if I don't desire sex,
but I am dripping wet, maybe Ido. And we kind of we mix up the
signals between our brain andour body. Yeah. And so to begin
with, I think it's important torecognize that they are separate
things. And we have this conceptcalled arousal non concordance,

which is where our body might bephysically aroused, while
mentally we are not. Or viceversa. We might be mentally
aroused. But physically, notmight be mentally having that
desire for sex. But our bodyisn't necessarily responding in
that way. Yeah, and not gettinghard or not getting as wet. And
that's why it's really importantto have this connection with

your body. So that you and yourmind, and so you can check in
and go, am I really desiring sexright now? Is this something
that I want to be doing? And isit my mind? Or my body that's
getting in the way? Or is itactually a full body? Yes, like,
I want to do this. And, andalso, that kind of leads on to
the importance of loop, whichI'm a huge fan of, like, use

lube, even if you're superdripping wet, it's gonna just
make things better, more,better. But if you have that
experience of not beingnecessarily wet, then some
people and I literally had aclient last week come to me and
she's like, I just need to bemore wet. Like, I can't get wet
with my current partner. I feellike I used to be able to, and

it's like, okay, well, we can wecan talk about different
factors. Like are you actuallyfeeling desire? Or is it maybe
just like you had a shift inyour hormones and you're not as
well as you used to be andthat's fine. Get some lube, it's
gonna be a good time. You know?
So that's a roundabout way oflike, discussing the difference
between desire and arousal. Andthen back to your question of

the different sort of factorsthat impact desire. They are so
multifaceted. So sexillogically, all sorts of look
through a few concepts that Ithink is going to be really
helpful. Yeah, but you've got somany layered things that can
impact your desire to actuallybe intimate with either yourself

or with a partner too. And soyou've got just regular stress
levels, you've got your sleeplevels, you've got hormones,
shifts in hormones throughthrough your menstrual cycle,
through menopause, perimenopausethat can also shift things a
lot. You've got you know, worklife sort of balance staffs

stress from work, you gotparenting children. You also got
like pregnancy probably shiftsthings.
Oh my gosh, first trimester. Iwas like, I do not want to have
any sex at all. secondtrimester, I am just on it. Oh,
my God, my libido is likethrough the roof.
Amazing. So like, things are soseasonal, right? Like, totally
these shifts. And if you are inthe first trimester, and

suddenly had this, like, oh mygod, where's my libido gone. all
doom and gloom, I'm never gonnaget it back. You know, that can
be really scary. But it's trustthat all things will shift. And
maybe it's just a season of likesexual winter, right where
you're like this is,and I think this is so important
as someone in like, long termpartnership as well, this is so

important to honor within ourown bodies, like our own
individual sex drive, and liketo notice that and to honor the
seasons in that, and then likeour partnership, like the sexual
season, our partnership is itand because I even noticed,
Jacob does not do this at all,but like, say that we're going
through, you know, more of awintry season in our like, in

our partnership, in our in oursex, I'll make that mean,
something. He doesn't, but I'llbe like, Oh, my gosh, is
everything okay? And then it'slike, oh, to come back and be
like, Hey, this is, yeah, ifwe're always having this
expectation that our sex lifehas to look like this. And it's
just like, you know, X amount oftimes a week we're having sex,
and it has to look exactly thesame. That's so much pressure,

so much, like so much pressure.
And I think that's such abeautiful question. Anytime,
because often all the questionof like, what am I making this
mean? That so often we make itmean, I'm broken? There's
something wrong? Nozomi?
Totally, yeah. Which can thenobviously, ripple out into the
relationship into our life intoso many other areas. So I just

think that's such a beautifulquestion. Yeah. And I love that
we circled, like, go justcircling back to what we said
before, like, it's notnecessarily it could just want
to, like the meaning could beI'm just in a winter season, or
I'm just, it's time to get somemore education around how my
body works and what my desirefeels like. And, yeah, totally.

I really love that questionlike, What am I making this
mean? I often use theterminology of like, what story?
Am I telling myself, or if I'msharing with a partner, I'll
say, This is the story that I'mtelling myself about this. Love
that. And then it's like, okay,let's kind of go from there. And
so when it comes to desire,like, what story? Are you
telling yourself, about yourdesire and what it means about

you, or your partnership, orboth? And then in terms of other
like the multifaceted sort oflayers that affect your sex
drive, you've also got theactual relationship itself. How
are you feeling in yourrelationship? Do you feel safe?
Do you feel trust? Do you havethis like festering resentment

that's been going on for years,because like, they've just
consistently not shown up foryou, or there's something
frustrating there that youcan't, like, let go. And, or
maybe even, you know, gosh, I'vehad clients that have told me
things that their partner hassaid, like, years ago, like a
comment that they made abouttheir policy, or a comment that

they made about how long they'retaking to come or something like
that, that has just gotten inthere, and it hasn't been able
to get out. Yeah, so every timethey're intimate with their
partner, that's just likeplaying on a loop in their head.
And it's so tough, but you needto, like clear that. Gotta clear
that because otherwise, you'rejust sort of sitting in it. And

they might have no idea thatthey said something that really
hurt you. And it's literallylike closing your pussy off to
pleasure. And so thatconversation has to be had.
I'm such a believer in thatoften, I say, and I know it's a
much more nuanced conversationthan this. But in long term
partnership, it's like if youdon't want to fuck like, what
are you not saying? Like, whatdo you not bringing to the

table? And yes, there can be somany other aspects, but I think
it is the reality is and Ithink, you know, I work a lot
with women and we are veryemotionally sensitive, and our
heart must arrive in A space, aheart has a lot to do with our
desire and our ability to becomearoused. And often when trying

to bypass the heart or like, oh,I can just whatever, I'll just
like, you know, yeah, trying toget our body to the place when
there is something emotionalthat needs to be brought forth,
or there needs to be aconversation or there needs to
be some level of vulnerabilitythat, you know, allows our heart
to arrive, and then, you know,our arousal can can come online,
even more.

Definitely. And so I thinkthat's like such a big factor.
When it comes to libido. Peopleare like, oh, you know, I want
to, like, I want to try toys, orI want to try BDSM or all these
things. And I see that as, like,icing on the top. Oh, 1000
million percent. Yeah. When itcomes to like, the way that you
feel about your sex life. Do youmind if I indulge you in

analogy? pleaseindulge me indulge us all.
So all my analogies are foodrelated? For some reason. I love
that. Taurus. Can you tell?
Leisure and food? That's mymotto.
Which one first? Youwant to be fed? No. Yeah, like I

need to like Yeah. So like ringnourish me. Totally. Yeah.
Delicious. Anyway, so. Okay, soI created this analogy.
Recently. Well, I've beenteaching it for years, and I
created a real honor recently.

This is the cake one the cake.
Loved the cake cola. Yep. Sookay. So I want you to imagine
that, like your sex life is kindof like a cake. And so you get
into the kitchen, and you'relike, I'm gonna make a cake.
Firstly, I have no fucking ideahow to make a cake. I haven't
been given a recipe. And also,this kitchen has been stocked
with ingredients by otherpeople. And so I'm just gonna

wing it, and I'm gonna do thebest that I can with what I've
been given. But you know, maybeall the ingredients have been
like, mislabeled. And so maybeyou have some sugar, it's
labeled sugar, but it's actuallysalt. But you have no idea
because someone else's, slapthat label on it. And these
labels could represent likesexual shame. Or, you know, the

Madonna whore dichotomy, or slutshaming, or you shouldn't dress
like that, or whatever. And soall these beliefs, and so you
start to make your cake. Andunfortunately, you put a fat on
have salt in it instead ofsugar, and you're mixing it
around, and then someone comesinto the kitchen. And they're

like, Oh, I'm just gonna throwthese beliefs on these
ingredients in it. And then thereal, it's pickles. And then
like, all just sprinkle thosein. And you're like, oh, gosh,
where did they come from? Andso, you know, maybe that's some
depiction of like, really fastsex in media on a TV show, and
you're like, oh, okay, well, Idon't, I don't know where that
came from. And I don't thinkthat's a belief that I want in

there, or an ingredient that Iwanted my cake, but I guess it's
a man now. And so you're like,okay, cool, we can just mix this
up. And then you go to pour itinto the pan, take it over to
the oven. And the oven in thisanalogy represents your body.
And you don't really knowexactly what temperature it
should be, you don't know howlong to preheat this oven for,
you don't know where the sweetspot is in the oven. If it's

like the top layer, the middlelayer at the bottom, like where
does like work best. You don'tknow how long the cake needs to
be in there. And so you justagain, do your best, you just
pop it in wherever and you putit on some random temperature.
And then you kind of pull thiscake out and it's maybe like,
not fully cooked. It's all salt.

It's not pickles. And you'relike, Okay, I guess I'm just
gonna, like have this cake now.
And you try a little bit of melike, oh, it's salty pickle
cake. And, you know, maybeyou're like, oh, like it's it's
food, right? It's edible. Maybeit's fine. And you're like, Oh,
my guess is this one everyoneelse's cake tastes like all
right. I mean, I did what Icould with what I was given, you

know, my recipe was maybemissing a few pages. Or it was
like stuck together like thatepisode of Friends. Or, you
know, it was just randomingredients that were put in
there by other people. And soyou go okay, well, this is my
experience of cake of six. WhatI'll do is now I'm going to try
and make it better. And I willjust slap on a bunch of icing.

And I was covered in sprinkles.
And in this analogy, that's theicing the sprinkles, the edible
glitter, all of thesedecorations. Basically that
represents you know, sex toys,it represents, you know, the
taboo and you know BDSM or whipsand chains and all of these

things. Yeah, which are amazingand super fun. And I am a huge
like advocate for We'reexploring with all these fun
tools as well. And sometimespeople need to incorporate the
sort of BDSM side of thekingside into their original
cake. Right? That's a huge partof their, their cake itself.

Yeah. But what we tend to do iswe approach our sexuality as
though Okay, well, there's, it'snot super satisfying right now,
I think it could be better. I'lladd more on top layer layer
layer on top, and then we go,okay, well, I'm still gonna, I'm
gonna have a slice of this cake.
And it's marginally better,because it's like, you know, the
icing is yummy. I put sprinkleson it, that's their tasty, but

there's still a fucking picklein
my cake. So what we need to dois we need to go back into the
kitchen and start fresh and go,You know what, that that like
container of salt has their ownlabel on it, I'm going to take
that off, and I'm going toactually replace it with sugar.

And I'm going to say, thisdoesn't serve me this belief
that came from somewhere else.
And it's not mine. And I don'twant it here. And I'm going to
find some other ingredients andmore beliefs and six positive,
you know, influences to followsome pleasure education that is
like pleasure centered and nonfear centered. It's going to be
pleasure centered sex instead ofgoal oriented sex. And I'm going

to replace all these ingredientswith ones that are delicious.
And that serve me and that feelnourishing to me, I'm going to
remove the ones that don't, I'mgoing to get the pickles the
fuck out of it. Because theydon't help make my take my cake
tastes delicious. sex life bereally, really nourishing and
tasty. And then once you've gotthis nice, fresh, beautiful cake

that you've worked on, andyou've like reconditioned
yourself and done that deep workof self inquiry to decide which
ingredients stay and go, you'velearned to your body, the oven,
which temperature how long ittakes to preheat your oven, what
you need, then you can goalright, what toppings do I want

to put on this? Do I want itjust simple today? Do I need a
little bit of powdered sugar? Ordo I want like the the like
bells and whistles? Do I want toget the edible glitter out and
like fondant and shit. Likethat's up to you. But we want to
start with like a cake thatreally really serves us.
Yes. I love that analogy somuch. And for someone who feels

like there's currently a lot ofpickles and salt in their cake.
Where do they begin? Like ifthey're like, I want to start
again? What is what does thatlook like? And again, I know
that's a big topic. And there'smany, many different areas for
for someone to begin there. Butwhat would you say? What would
you suggest? The waythat I work is always from the
inside out. And so it's startingwith your own conditioning. I

always say question yourconditioning? Yes. And take some
time for self inquiry and reallythink about what messages have I
received about sex? And whichones are blocking me and this is
going to be a process? It's notjust one journaling session, you
sit down and you're like, ah,gone. Yeah, it's in the moment

when you're when you're about toself pleasure. Is there a voice
in your head? That's sayingyou're dirty? Okay, where did
that come from? Whose voice isthat? Is that something that I
want to stay? How do I want toreprogram that belief? What
would I choose to believe?
instead? In the moment, ifyou're having sex with a

partner, and you want to moanand let go? But you're like, No,
I shouldn't because you know, Ishould be I should be seen as
like, quiet or it's slutty Timonor whatever. Okay, where did
that belief come from? Allright, I'm gonna have to think
about that later. Maybe I needto chat to my partner. And maybe

I need to say, Hey, I think thatI have some block to moaning and
making noise. Could you likeencourage me next time, like it
would be really, really nice andhelpful for me, if you
encouraged that, so that I feltsafe to do it.
What I witnessed again, in thewomen I work with is that

sounding is one of the biggestedges and it makes so much
fucking sense because we aswomen have been, you know,
taught for 1000s of years thatit's not okay to use our voice
and we've been persecuted forour voice. And, you know, the
bedroom or a sexual experienceis one of the most vulnerable
places to be. And so I and Ifound this in my own journey of

coming into my sexual expressionlike I used to, even not even
sounding but advocating formyself and yeah, and there would
be and I remember with previouspartners like they would, I
would have a desire come alive.
So it might be just like, I wanthim to slow down or I want him
to just like, move a little tothe left or like Yes, and I
would let her We feel like thatdesire just got stuck in my

throat like I literally couldnot bring that into into the
moment and speak that into themoment. And I know, so many of
the women I work with, feel thatway. And so many of the stories
around not only their sexualityand sexual expression, but their
expression in general, is aroundnot being able to use their

voice. And one of the things Ialways say is how we fuck is how
we do life. So I really believethat it's actually in the
bedroom, whether this is solo,or with a partner, we actually
get the opportunity to deeplyaffect the way we're showing up
in life. And if we're able to,you know, move through those
blocks, or lean into thoseblocks of bringing our voice

and, or low or moaning, or likemaking a sound that doesn't
sound like it's off porn, butsomething that's like, deeply
alive and true for our body inthe moment like that, that is
literally a portal to becoming afully expressed human in life,
like the ripples of, you know,showing up in a moment in the
bedroom with a partner. Andleaning into an edge like, that

doesn't stay there, that ripplesout so deeply into how you
express in the world.
It really, really does. And, youknow, this idea of separation
that, like, sex is justsomething that you do in the
bedroom, and it stays there.
And, like, it's so, so bizarreto me, because it really does
impact so much your life impactsyour psyche, this actually

impacts your life, and howyou're showing up. And so it's
like this invitation of, ifyou're not speaking up and
speaking into your desires, inthe bedroom, with your partner
with this person who you shouldfeel incredibly safe with, if
you're allowing them inside yourbody. Like, you should probably
feel quite safe with this personquite trusting. But if you're

still holding back and youthink, Oh, I don't want to hurt
their feelings, yeah, that's abig one. Like, I don't want to
say this, because you know, thenmaybe they'll get upset. It's
like your, your body, yourpleasure, like advocate for it,
it's going to be like speakingto something else that you're
not, not doing not showing up inyour own life. Completely

powerful. AndI love that you said the work
like for you the work startsfirst within Yes. And I love
this idea that like our first ora primary sexual relationship
is, you know, the relationshipwe have with ourselves and our
own body. And I think that isnecessary in order to advocate
for yourself in the bedroom.

Like so often. Again, I workwith so many women that, you
know, want to be having, and Ilove that you said nourishing
sex before. Because they likeright that that's like so like
sex that feeds us sex thatliterally like nourishes our
cells. Like that's, that's so?
Yeah, that's, that's, that's,that's it? Yes, yes. So do you

see, right, yeah, it's not justour bodies rubbing up against
each other, it's like a soul,our energy is deeply being
nourished by that experience.
And I know so many women thatwant that, and yet, are
expecting their partner to beable to give that to them,
almost like outsourcing. I seethis a lot. And I used to do

this, and maybe we bring thisback into the conversation
around desire to Jacob wouldcome to me and this is in the
early stages of ourrelationship, and you know, want
to have sex and you know, bringhis desire. And I wouldn't be
connected to my desire in thatmoment. But I would be like to
him, Well, if you want to, like,basically work, right? If you

want it, it's your job to turnme on if you want it, like it's
your job. And I was totallydisconnected to the idea that I
actually had the power to turnmyself on and to connect to the
desire that lived in my body.
And actually, it was animportant part of the journey
for me, yes, he could do thingsand you know, turn me on in

different ways, but it wasactually my devotion to
connecting to that part of meand bringing that part of me
online. That was so fuckingimportant. Yeah. And we used to
have conversations after thatwhen I really started to you
know, look at that primaryrelationship, primary sexual
relationship with myself, whichcompletely shifted our sex life.

And he used to share with methen that like, yeah, it felt
like a lot of pressure to belike, total okay, like, yes,
have sex with me, but you got todo all that. You gotta turn me
on. You've got to know exactlywhat I need right now. Tell me a
story or press the right buttonor do the right thing. Like, and
I think a lot of women dobelieve that it's like, okay, I
want that. But I don't want toinquire within myself. I don't

want to start a self pleasurepractice. I don't want to do all
the work that then has just beenme on actually like actually our
sexual expression our desire isour responsibility. Like it
truly is.
Definitely i i love that yousaid that because it is such a
key piece for me, I always say,don't outsource your pleasure,

stop outsourcing your pleasure,like your pleasure is yours. And
it's for you to cultivate. Andif you are expecting someone
else to just turn you on thatit's you're doing such a
disservice to yourself. Yeah,like it is your responsibility.
And yes, of course, like, youknow, you want to prioritize
your partner's pleasure, and youwant them to prioritize yours

too. But there is that, like,sense of responsibility and
ownership, like, takeresponsibility for your
pleasure, understand your ownbody, advocate for your
pleasure. Don't just outsourceit and lay there and go, Oh, and
like, you know, complain to meafterwards and say, Oh, well,
you know, he, he didn't knowwhat to do didn't press the

right button. He didn't make mecome. Okay, do you know how to
make yourself come? Like, don'tput it all on this other person,
they are meant to bring mepleasure. Just like you don't
want to be used just to bringthem pleasure. Yes, like work
together, understand your ownbody, and work to explore what

it is that you desire foryourself, and then share it.
I love I have this bit of ananalogy of like, and this was
definitely how it worked. Forme. When I began self
pleasuring. It was almost likean exploring my pussy, and like
pussy gazing, and just just likereally meeting my body in a way
that I hadn't met her before. Itwas almost like I was creating

this map, or like, like,literally mapping out this
mapping out my body and mappingout my pleasure zones. And then
I could go to Jacob, my partner,hey, here's the map, right?
Like, I'm bringing him amazinginformation in order in order to
pleasure me, and in order to,you know, have incredible sexual
experiences. But so often, manywomen haven't mapped their own

pleasure and don't know whatthey want. So they're just
showing up being like, with noinformation to them, even
download a Google Map.
And no matter who you're with,or how great a lover they are,
like, every human's body isunique. Yeah. And so yes, you
can have an incredible loverthat's attuned to you and can

can bring certain things alivein you. But that's never going
to trump your relationship withyour body and your relationship
with your turn on and sexualexpression.
Definitely, I love the mapanalogy, because it really is
this idea of Okay, first I'mgoing to actually bring a map
into the future. And then I'mgoing to start to chart a course

and go, Oh, okay, I like this. Ilike this. And like, I've
visited these places. And then Ithink to even extend this
analogy is like, I've got mymap, you've got yours. And I'm
going to show you mine and youshow me your Yeah. And then we
can compare them. And then wecan say, oh, have you tried
exploring over here. I haven'tgotten that you want to gather

together. Then you like holdingentity often a little? Like Dora
the Explorer, a little backpack.
Isn't and I think this extendsJacob and I always talk about

this in partnership. And this isrelevant in the bedroom, but
outside of it. Like if we arenot bringing our partner
information and just expectingthem to read our mind that
that's actually doing them andourselves such a disservice.
Because we're just expecting youshould know how to love me, you
should know how to fuck me, youshould know how to pleasure me,

you should know how to treat mewell. Right? And yes, we want a
partner that's attuned and likebringing their gifts to us. But
also like, the way partnershipand also lover shit works is
that we, we inform our partnerwe use our voice we speak, you
know, our desires into thespace. And that's what actually

is supports our lover or partnerto, you know, pleasure us even
more deeply or love us evenbetter. Definitely.
And I think that, you know, whenyou speak on this idea of, oh,
I'm expecting my partner to justknow and blah, blah, blah. And I
just want them to know how topleasure me know this without me
having to tell them. I alwaysinvite people to flip that and

say, Well, are you expected aswell? Isn't that a lot of
pressure on you if your partneris expecting that you know
exactly what to do and how toshow up and exactly how they
need to be loved. Doesn't thatfeel suddenly like this big
weight of like, oh my god, likeI don't? I don't? I don't know.
I can try my best. I'll do mydarndest and I will get a little

pat on the head later. But whatif I actually asked them and
then it's going to be morepleasurable, you're going to
feel like you've done it. Youknow, you deserve a gold star
instead of just a pat on thehead. I feel like I've actually
done this. And I've actuallytaken the time to care and show
how much I care about my partnerby asking and wanting to be

curious about their pleasure.
And so like, let's like flip itas well, because I think so
often, we can just get like, abit, a bit self centered in this
process of like, oh, well, theydon't know what they're doing.
And they're not pleasuring me,and they didn't make me come.
Okay. How about you? It's like alevel of entitlements on time.
You should know how to make mecalm. You should. Yeah.

And you know what I've even I'vecaught myself in this. I've had
experiences where I've, likebeen laying back and they've
been eating me out. And I'mlike, This doesn't feel good.
Like, I'm bored. And I'm justlooking around the room. I'm
like, so boring, then I'm likeElena with a fog, tell them what
to do. Like, you know, move alittle bit or say, say
something, don't just lay there.
Because they're actively they'relike, looking, trying doing what

they can. And how rude for youto be laying there judging and
going, Oh, well, they don't knowwhat they're doing. Because that
probably worked for someone elsein the past. Yeah. And you know,
I've especially like, as abisexual woman having
experiences with women. And Ithink you can have this
experience of being with withheterosexual men too. But it's

opened my eyes a lot, becauseI've been with women where
they've told me Oh, I like itreally, really light or like,
really, really soft. And I'm theopposite. I'm like, I need you
like, right there, like all upin it. And for me, I would
assume I just go in the way thatI like, right? But of course,

not everyone has the sameexperience. And so it really
opened my eyes like, oh, yeah,it gave me some empathy. Because
I was like, well, if a man isgoing down on me, and I'm not
really loving it rather than me,assuming they don't know what
they're doing. Maybe they havejust been with people who like
it like that. Yeah. And I justhappened to have a different

policy. That doesn't work itYeah. So like, the only thing
that's going to make it betteris if I speak up. Yes, yes, I'm
just intuited.
I love that. And I think, youknow, even bringing the
conversation back to desire, I'massuming, and I'm even
remembering when, you know, Iwasn't speaking up for myself.

Yeah. Or speaking, advocatingfor myself. That obviously is
going to, you know, circle backinto our our ability to connect
with our turn on and and desire.
Yeah, if were not feelingnourished, and were, like, just
having to, like, sit therebored, or sit there and be like,
When will this be over? Becausewe're not able to bring our

voice. It's probably gonna haveus disconnected. From our turn
on our desire. Yeah.
And we'll feel like in thosesituations, it would be very
easy for me to create a storyand say, I guess I just don't
come from my head. Yes. Maybejust not the right type of hit.
Maybe. Sasha, maybe you needthem to suck instead of flick.

Uh huh. Explore get that mapout, baby. Can I share with you
another analogy? Uh, yes. Yes.
This is a breakfast relatedanalogy. I love it. So there's
some psychological concepts whenit comes to desire that I think
absolute game changes and canreally, really help us to
reframe the way that we see ourturn on. Yes. So I want you to

imagine that you've just wokenup and you're getting out of
bed. And you know, that thefirst thing you probably should
do is eat, right? Especially ifyou're a woman you want to eat
quickly, you know, not do thatintermittent fasting thing
anyway, fast. Like, I know, Ishould have a nourishing

breakfast, right, like, firstmeal of the day. Let's break
that bust. But you're like, I'mjust not hungry. I just don't
have a desire for food rightnow. Not feeling it. And so
we're like, Okay, I'm not gonnahave breakfast, you walk
downstairs into the kitchen, andyou see your partner in the
kitchen, making this bigbreakfast like a whole face. You
know, they've got like, thebacon and the eggs and the

toasts and they just, you know,doing a little dance cook in and
it's a good time. They arereally, really excited for their
food. And you start to smell itand be like, Oh, it smells kind
of nice. Still not hungry,though. But smell smells nice.
And then your partner plates itup. It looks really beautiful.

Like it looks like somethingthat would be in a restaurant.
You're like, Oh, God, thatactually looks really good. But
I'm still not hungry. And thenyour partner takes a bite and
they did that like little happyfood. So good. Like, oh, they
look like they're having fun.
I'm still hungry though. Andthen they say do you want to

buy? No, yeah, I'll have a bite.
Let me feed you a bite andyou're like, oh, Ah, and then
something happens and yourstomach rumbles and your water,
your mouth starts watering. Andyou're like, Oh, well, maybe I'm
hungry now. Actually, I actuallythink I have a desire for
breakfast. And then you liketuck on it. So this is similar
to the concept of responsivedesire. So we have two different

ways in which we can experiencedesire for sex. And they are
either responsive orspontaneous. Now responsive is
this idea of I'm not hungry yet.
But now that I've been exposedto breakfast related stimuli,
I'm hungry. And so when it comesto sex, I'm not desiring sex.

Yeah. But as soon as I'm exposedto sexually relevant stimuli.
Maybe it starts to turn on, andI do actually build this desire
for sex. Now, the differencebetween spontaneous and
responsive is that spontaneousis the one that we see most
typically represented insociety. So true. Yeah, it's

almost like the blueprint.
People assume that the way thatsex and desire works that
yes, I'm holding, I'm gonna fuckimmediately out of the blue.
Yeah, I'm oni Let's go. And yes,a lot of people do experience
spontaneous desire, wherethere's nothing sexually
relevant happening. And yet,they're ready, they can go
immediately, right? And so thisis like, Okay, I'm just suddenly

starving out of the blue. Like,nothing food related is
happening. I'm not even likedriving past, you know, a fast
food place, or I'm not smellingsome freshly baked cookies.
You're just like, out of theblue. IE, I want to eat.
And so, with sex we see in everyTV show spontaneous desire, all

of a sudden, they're like, fuck,let's get it on. Minimal build
up to it. And for when we'retalking heterosexual
relationships as well. It tendsto be, I'm going to speak in the
binary here. In terms of men andwomen, men tend to feel
spontaneous desire, it's about75% of men tend to resonate more

with okay, yes, desire, yes. 15%of women tend to be spontaneous.
Yes. And then when we look atresponsive desire, it is
something like 5% of men feelresponsive. Whereas I think
it's, I want to say, 85% I'dhave gotten my fingers around.

I'm gonna check them. Okay, I'mgonna check him. But it's,
I think, so important to hearand I can already like, feel
women listening to this beinglike, having a sense of relief.
Yeah. Again, clearing the storyof like, something's wrong with
me. If I'm not experiencing thatspontaneous desire. It's just
like, my body is different. Mydesire works different. Exactly,

exactly. It's so it's soimportant. So to get those
figures, right, spontaneousdesire, we have 15% of women
have spontaneous desire wantingsex out of the blue, whereas 75%
of men tend to have spontaneousdesire. When it comes to
responsive, only 5% of men, butabout 30% of women or Volvo
owners experience, that wow typeof desire. And so the the

difference in that is quiteastounding, and really, really
interesting to explore. Andthen, of course, a lot of people
are a blend of the two. Okay,some people will be like, Oh,
sometimes, but sometimes thisand that's where context comes
into play.
I am definitely a blend. Yeah,I'm definitely a blend. Totally.
There'stimes where it's like, oh, I'm
horny. Out of blue. No idea why,yeah. And then other times

where, you know, my partnerwants sex. And I'm like,
I need to be seduced into it.
Yes. And I think this is where,again, it's so beautiful to know
that this is still this canstill be like, even if you're
not, I'm not advocating to allowsomeone to be with your body if
you are a no, but knowing thatyou don't need to feel like

yeah, I want to fuck in orderfor you to lean into a sexual
experience. Right? So it it canit can be more of a slow burn.
And like for me often I know. Itmight not be like, I want to
fuck and I bet it'd be like, Iwant to share this experience
with my partner. And that deepdesire isn't there yet. But I'm
I'm going to say hey, let'slet's go make out or can you

give me a massage or I'm goingto choose connection and
intimacy knowing that withinthat context or through choosing
that that can be the doorway toyou know, bringing my responsive
desire online and experiencingthat.
Exactly. It's so so key to allowyourself to be open to

connection Yes, but know thatthat connection, intimacy, non
sexual intimacy, sensualintimacy, it doesn't always have
to lead to sex. And this issomething I
see with a lot of women actuallyshutting down those moments,
because they don't want to havesex or they don't want to use
their voice or they're afraid touse their voice. So their

partner might come up to them,and grab their butt, or like
their partner might come up tothem and want to make out or
something. And I've experiencedthis early in my relationship.
But I still see so many womenclosing down from that, and
almost like, almost feeling thepressure of expectation AND, OR,
and maybe not feeling thatspontaneous desire. So thinking

like, I don't want this. So I'mactually not even going to lean
into this moment of intimacy.
Exactly. And what I reallyadvocate in those kinds of
moments is to express that toyour partner to be like, hey, in
those sometimes in those kind ofmoments, you might feel me
closed off from you. Because Ihave this feeling that, oh, this
has to lead to sex, and I mightnot be ready for that. And your

partner is most likely, youknow, in all the women I've
worked with in heterosexualrelationships, in my experience
of, you know, their partners,like, Ah, I just wanted to make
out with you, I just wanted tograb you about right now, if it
led to sex, awesome. But knowingthat, you know, that expectation
is making you feel a lot ofpressure awesome. Like it
doesn't have to. Yeah, and Ithink that is so liberating for

a woman, because it is again, ifif she's closing down in those
moments, she's then not evenallowing herself to get into a
position to experience aresponsive desire. It's like
spontaneous desire or nothing.
And so like we're shuttingourselves down. We're like, No,
I'm not even gonna give myselfthe opportunity to build that

because yes, responsive desireis my I like, I'm responding
with desire to the fact that mybody is aroused, right? Because
we often look at it as thoughit's this very linear process of
I feel desire for sex, my bodyfeels aroused, but when it's
responsive, your body's actuallyaroused before you feel the

desire. And we can only feelaroused if we are allowing
something's actually relevant tohappen. Making out having a
massage, being intimateconnecting in a way that is
intimate doesn't have to bephysical. Yeah, but some way
that is going to make your bodygo Oh, like, Oh, I'm a little

bit turned on now. And suddenly,you know, just like in the
breakfast analogy, like, oh,rumbly tummy, salivary glands
are going, you know, with sex.
It's like, oh, like, I feel alittle bit of like a flush, and
I feel a little bit turned on.
And oh, now that my body feelsthat way. No, I actually have a
desire for sex. Yes, didn'tbefore. Like two minutes ago, I

had no desire for sex. I wasn'teven thinking about it. But now
sexually relevance happening.
Oh, my body. My body's feelingit. And now I can understand
that. That is my trigger todesire it.
I love that. I think this isgoing to be so fucking helpful
for people so fucking helpful. Iwas gonna say something and now
it's gone. Wait, it'll comeback.

To him. It was It wasn't aboutthe car analogy. No. What
was the car analogy? Well, thebrakes and the accelerator. Oh,
yeah. So I want to talk aboutthat. I there was something I
really wanted to say there.
Wait, we were talking about?
Okay, if it's relevant, it will.
It'll come back. It will comeback. Yeah. But I really want it
to come back. And maybe it wasjuicy. Let's let's go with the

car analogy. Because I thinkthat's, I think that's cool. My
brain is still trying to work.
Yeah. I'll just I'll just likego on a little rant. Okay. And
I'll be like.
Okay, so the car analogy issomething that's incredibly

helpful as well. So firstly, Ithink that this piece about the
difference between spontaneousand responsive desire that can
do like create this click inyour brain where you're like,
Oh, my God, now I understand allthose times that I shut it down.
Because I wasn't feeling that Iwas responding or Oh, now I
understand why I want itsuddenly and my partner doesn't.

And that's such a key factor.
And then the next part of thispuzzle, which I think is so
helpful, and for anyonelistening and you want like a
great book to read, that isgoing to really dive into these
topics. Come as you are by EmilyMcCloskey, I'm sure you've
shared about this plenty oftimes. It's such a great book,
so incredible. It's just suchwonderful research and the way
that she has created theseanalogies is so helpful. And so

this is an analogy about a car,no food and this one, I didn't
create this one's like food.
You're eating a burrito in acar, in
a car. Okay, so you're snackingin a car. just snacking has
nothing to do with the analogy,but just

Okay, so this is around thedifference between the brakes
and the accelerators, right. Soif you think of your sex drive
as this car, you're gonna get inthe car. And typically you're
gonna turn that on, and you'regonna take your foot off the
brake, and you're gonna pressthe accelerator to start moving.
Now, if you are in that car, andyou have your foot on the brake,

and then you start to press theaccelerator, and it's just gonna
rev and rev and rev, it's notgonna go anywhere, because your
foot is slammed down on thebrake. And also the car, you are
going to get quite exhausted bycontinuously pressing that
accelerator hoping that it'llmove, and it won't go anywhere.

And then similarly, there aretimes when you know, you might,
you might be on like a reallylike flat road. And you might
take your foot off the brake andexpect that it moves. But it's
just like, it's just gonna sitthere might like roll forward a
little bit. Yeah, but they'rejust going to sit there waiting
for you to like, press theaccelerator. So it's not going

to actually move until you dosomething, you can take the foot
off the brake and press theaccelerator. So when this has
like, no constant context, it'slike why the fuck are you
talking about race acceleratorsl&r? So the reason that I bring
up this analogy is because wehave these systems at play in
our body, constantly. And sothere are these two systems that

are called the sexual excitationsystem. And the sexual
inhibition system es ES and ESis also known as the brakes on
the accelerators. So the brakes,the sexual inhibition system is
this system in your body that isconstantly scanning your
environment, your internal andexternal world, for reasons not

to be aroused. It's like, okay,Illinois, right now you're
having an interview with me. Andit'd be kind of like, a little
bit inappropriate if you werelike, I'm holding on to get it
on. And I've got to like, go somyself out. And so my sexual
excitation inhibition system islike brakes on, this isn't
appropriate, right. And then wehave a second system, which is

the sexual sexual excitationsystem, the accelerators, and
this system in our body isconstantly scanning our
environment, or internal andexternal world for reasons to be
aroused. And so it's like, okay,what sexually relevant is
happening right now in my life,you know, is my partner like,
fresh out of the shower, andlike walking towards me dripping

like an Adonis. And I'm like,damn, I am turned on, this is a
reason for me to feel that,like, pushed down on the
accelerator, and whatever itmight be for you. And so what is
really, really helpful for us tounderstand is, firstly, what am
I sexual brakes? What am Isexual accelerators? How
sensitive are my breaks? Howsensitive are my accelerators?

And also, like, how do I balancethe two. So understanding these
about ourselves is wildlyimportant. And then
understanding them about ourpartner can be super helpful as
This was so game changing. Forme, I think I read that book,
like five years ago. And I'm thetype of person and this is why

it was so helpful to me. WhenI'm building up arousal, my
brakes are very sensitive. Likeif it's if I'm suddenly cold. Or
like, if suddenly I've got theblanket on and like the blanket
comes off or, or if like, a tinybit of my hair gets pulled or
like my god, yeah, and when I'min the throes of lovemaking. I,
it's like the, I'm in it, butespecially at the buildup or the

full play, my breaks is sofucking sensitive. And it was so
beautiful for me to have that,like analogy to be then able to
share that with Jacob as well.
Like, oh, that's, that's, that'smy brakes happening. Like, even
if you know I'm so in it. Andthen you know, I'm, I'm, you
know, you're doing all the rightthings or like, you know, the
moment feels really good. One ofthese things can really take me

out of it. Exactly. And, yeah, Ifelt that was just like, so
helpful for me to notice that.
And yeah, didn't notice thatinterplay of like you said, and
I think, and I'd love to hearyour thoughts on this, but
breaks obviously you like thecontext of the moment or the
stimuli in the moment. But canbrakes also be like the stories

we carry and those kinds ofthings as well? Yeah, so
just like we have the handbrakeand the foot brake, you can
think of brakes in terms ofinternal and external. So
external temperature, lighting,music playlists, like
a partner saying they saysomething, you know.

Exactly. And then you've got theend Internal breaks, which are,
you know, self esteem bodyissues. No concern about the
relationship like, what doesthis mean? Like, are we actually
together? Are they going to callme tomorrow? concerns as well
about like STIs physical safety,emotional safety, fear of

unwanted pregnancy or desire toconceive, these things can also
act as, like these mental breakswhere I'm shutting myself down
from pleasure, or to desirebecause I'm so in my head. And
then also the external breakswhere you're like, it's cold.
Like, you know, like, I don'tfeel comfortable, you know,

taking the the blankets off,because I'm cold. So please put
the heating on or something likethat, like, take the CRISPR out
of the air. And I lovethat you said before, like, no
matter how, you know, no matterhow hard your food is on that
accelerator, so no matter howgood the dirty talk is, no
matter how, you know, whateverit is, if those brick if that
foot is on that break, it'syou're you're at a standstill.
Yeah, andit's exhausting. Yes. So it can

be so exhausting to be like, Ihave these very sensitive brakes
on my foot is jammed on thebrakes. And you're trying,
you're trying either you or yourpartner are trying so deeply to
turn yourself on. And you'relike, I just need to like
address the foot on the brakes.

Because there's no point inthrowing all these accelerators
at me. Yeah. And it's similar tolike the sprinkles and the
icing. It's like, cool, you canadd all these things. But if I
have my foot, so family on thebreak, then it's not necessarily
going to work. Yes. And so weneed to address what needs to
what I need to feel comfortableenough to start taking my foot

I've got a funny story aboutthis, which is literally just
happened on the weekend, whenJacob and I were making love.
And I didn't like the way he'shis breath smelled in the
moment. And so we were in it.
And I was like it was feeling sohot and so good. And then
suddenly, and I don't even knowif it ended up being his breath.
But there was just this, thissmell that like I just couldn't
deal with. And He's so sensitiveto my brakes now like he can

feel he's so attuned to when mybody closes. Yeah, you know,
because it's, it's very, and Iguess for someone that's very
embodied and connected to, youknow, their expression. It's
easy to tell when that when thatwhen that break goes on,
definitely. And so I love thatyou just said it's important to
address the brace because in theend, I was like, there's no, no

matter how much you're lickingmy pussy right now. It's not
like it's not going anywhere.
And so I ended up saying, hey,like, there's a smell that we
both just like, threw together.
And there was like, we then hadthe sex ended up being

incredible after that, like nextlevel. But there was a moment
after that happen, where we hada conversation and he was
sharing, like, oh, that can bekind of jarring sometimes
because I feel like yeah, likewhen we're really in it. And it
was like my opportunity to say,Hang on, I know, there is some
things that the sensitivesometimes and really helped me

and I need to be able to addressthem to be able to move on. And
I think yeah, I just love thatyou said like addressing the
brakes, because they're not.
Oftentimes, if you are cold, youcan't like bypass that.
Bypass totally. And this is thething as well, when we talk

about the sensitivity, right?
Because I think both of usresonate with having quite
sensitive brakes. And so it'slike, yes, in the moment, you're
like, full, I'd love to bypassthis, but my brakes have already
been like, hit Yeah. And mypartner potentially, potentially
they have brakes on verysensitive. So like, you'd have

to like really push down. Yeah,you know, you get in this is a
thing as well. Like you say thecar is like your body or your
your sex drive. Yeah. And soyou're always like, you know, we
all have those experiences ofgoing and trying different cars
driving a friend's car, andsuddenly, like whoa, like, I
have to like barely touch it andI'm braking like barely touched,

the accelerator is going or Ihave to like it's an older car
and have to really push it down.
And so the sensitivity of yourbrakes, the sensitivity of your
accelerator, and your partnersis going to play a big role.
Because, you know, for apartner, they might have
incredibly sensitiveaccelerators, but you just do
like a little tap or even like alittle touch of that person. And

they're like, I'm horny. LikeI'm ready to go, and it doesn't
matter what else is happening.
And in the moment, they canbypass all the things the
halogen lights the I can likegenuine by pony, magic line
playing and you're like, oh mygod, they can bypass all of the
external stimuli, all theinternal stuff, they're just
like, I'm fucking. Andmeanwhile, you're like, how are

they not noticing that it'scold? And how can they not
notice that there's a stench?
How do they not notice all thesethings? And people just have
different sensitivities? Yes.
And so are your brakes moresensitive, or your accelerators
more sensitive? Yeah, and notshaming either way. Because I
think sometimes we can get it inour head that, oh, it's better

to have it like sensitiveaccelerators than it is to have
sensitive brain. Yeah. But also,like, sometimes, if people have
like, not very sensitive brakes,and they can't turn it off very
easily, they have incrediblysensitive, sensitive
accelerators. And they're, like,turned on so easily. That can
also be like a struggle to dealwith because you're like, Fuck,
I'm holding it all the time, andI can't turn it off or like it.

You might even take more riskierbehavior, right? This is why
people might have risky sex ornot, not use condoms, not be
safe. not think about theirphysical safety, their their
health, things like this, theymight not have that
conversation, because they'relike, I just wanna fuck med.
Like, I can't think of anythingelse. Yeah. And so we need the
brakes. And we need theaccelerators, or we just want to

balance them out. And we want tofigure out how do I, you know,
turn like on my turn ons? Andhow do I turn off my turn offs?
Andthat, again, is like, if we're
looking at that map analogy,it's like mapping out like, what
are what is my x? What are myaccelerators? And what are my
brakes and having an awarenessof that? Yeah, ourselves. And

also being able to communicatethat to a lover or partner is
really powerful as well.
Definitely. And I think this is,you know, the most helpful
activity, and I'm just gonna gocoach mode, and I'm going to
employ, employ you. I would likefor you all to please take out a

pen and paper. But like youryour homework after this episode
is to literally get out pen andpaper, write down brakes, write
down accelerators, and like,list, everything that you can
think of, that turns you on, andthat turns you off, that stops
you from wanting sex or thatlike leads you to desiring sex
more, and have this as like arunning list. Because you might

not know until you're in themoment, the next time that
you're like, Oh my God, thissong drives me up the wall and I
can't focus. That song is on mybreaks list.
I'm sorry, I sometimes I want aplaylist on Yeah, and then I'll
have to be like, sorry, not thissong. Skip this song.
1000s tell you something. Okay.
So I'm extremely sensitive tolike music. Like, I've I've used

this so many times when I'vebeen talking about the idea of
breaks and accelerators. I'veshared this with so many
partners. If I know the lyricsto the song that's playing, I am
singing it in my head. It isreally hard for me to focus on
what is happening. You could begiving me like the best eating
out of your life. And I'm likereally hard for me to like, get

out of my head, because I justwant to sing along. And I'm
like,I'm over here doing karaoke.
Like,Oh, I did a dance routine to
this one. And so like, and Ishare this with my partners, I'm
like, it needs to be like lyricfree. Yeah. Instrumental
instrumentals, that was one timeOh, my God is so mortifying.

Okay, this was years ago, when Iwas a pole dancer was before I
bought my pole dancing studio. Iwas like a pole dancer by hobby.
And I was doing like my setthree and four and fitness. And
naturally, it's like super intoone of the other students
studying and we had this likedate planned for after after

class one day. And this dude,like, knew that I was a pole
dancer, and it was very muchlike, Oh my God. And while we
were fucking this guy has thesong. It's like, I'm in love
with the strip. Like, bro, turnthat shit off. Just like strip

riding you to that. Feelingdensity? Like, this isn't this,
isn't it?
I hope this is a permission slipto anyone that needs it to be
able to, you know, attend tothose breaks in the moment

because it does not work. And Ithink it you know, it puts us
even more in our head. Yeah, andonce we are there, it's it can
be challenging to come back intothe body, especially with just
trying to bypass or like pretendyou can't hear the song and
pretend you're warmer than youare. Like, it's okay. And it's
actually fucking necessary toadvocate for yourself in those

moments and to attend to thosebreaks. Because they can
actually be a portal to youknow, the nourishing sex that
you really crave. You're notgoing to feel nourished by sex
if you're just like, you'regonna feel like you said
exhausted if it's likelook exactly And I think what
holds people back, you know,maybe it's just like a people
pleaser sort of tendency to notspeak up not advocate for your
pleasure. But so often there'sthis myth of like, you're going

to, like, kill the vibe, you'regoing to ruin the mood. If you
say, Oh, can we close thatwindow? Yeah. Because you're
like, Oh, we're in the middle ofit, and all how awkward to to
kill the vibe. But from there,I'd say to you, why? Why are you
prioritizing their pleasure andtheir enjoyment over yours?

Because what you're saying thereis you're essentially saying, I
care more about them enjoyinghaving sex with me and my body?
Yeah. While I'm not in it, andI'm checked out, then I do about
saying, Oh, this would make memore comfortable. And then we're
both going to have a morepleasurable experience. Yes.

Like, why are you? Like, why areyou not allowing yourself to
speak up and advocate foryourself? And
I truly believe that, in myexperience, it's when when you
are not there, your partner is,like, they're not going to have

as good of a time if you arecompletely fucking in the room.
And you are, you know, deep inthe depths of pleasure. And so,
yes, it is about you likechoosing those things. But it's
also about, you know, I'm thisis how are we going as like the
entity of these humans havingsex right now? How are we going
to have the most incredibleexperience together? Exactly.

And I know that there's a lot ofpeople out there who are
concerned about, like, ruiningthe moment or making having
their partner respond in a waythat's like, Oh, my God, okay.
If they like roll their eyes, ordon't respect that you need X,
Y, or Z to feel morecomfortable. That to me is a

gentle invitation. Greatinformation.
Great information. Okay, cool.
So you can't handle the factthat I need to be more
comfortable in order to do thisreally, like sacred, beautiful,
vulnerable, connected thing withyou? Well, maybe I won't be
letting you in here. Again, yes.
Like, it really does speak to aperson's character, if they get

annoyed with you for sharingwhat you desire. That to me is
like a red flag. I agree. Ithelps when you think,
Alright, like. Okay, Iremembered what I wanted to say,

will kind of come to completion.
I wanted to say when we weretalking about, oftentimes, women
feeling that pressure andexpectation, and then so going,
Oh, I'm just going to close downand cut off that moment. So I'm
not going to make out I'm notgoing to do these things,
because I'm assuming it's goingto lead to sex, and we're not
ready for that. What I suggestor prescribe to women in those

moments is take sex, likecompletely off the table. And a
lot of the women I'm workingwith are in long term
partnerships. And this canreally show up you know, more
when you're living with someonein those kinds of settings, but
not always necessarily. But Iliterally advocate for take sex
completely off the table, havethat conversation with your
partner. So you know, and don'tbreak the rule, like, ya know

that so Okay, penetration orwhatever your kind of definition
of sexes that's off the table.
So there's this like, ability toland and feel safe in those
moments, okay, I can enjoy aminute of fully making out with
my partner in the kitchen, havethem in, in the kitchen of a

morning or, you know, afterdinner, knowing that there is no
possibility that this is goingto lead to sex. Oh,
it makes it so much moreenjoyable. And it builds that
sense of trust and safety oflike, oh, okay, I know. Yeah,
there's not this pressure andthis excitation on me, I can
just enjoy this.

And then you're able to actuallyconnect with that responsive
desire, like a woman orwhoever's experiencing this can
actually go, ah, oh, well, thereis a not broken Oh, well, there
is the part of me. Now I want tofuck up. But I think this is so
beautiful for a woman to be ableto then build that relationship

and be open to her responsivedesire, because so often, that's
just not the case. When, when,you know, she's choosing to shut
down in this moment. So Jeffactually began to get fired,
take sex off the table.
1,000% I think it's such apowerful practice and will
really give you more of an ideaof oh, this is what turns me on.
And this is what doesn't turn meon. Yeah. And start to like,

really build that relationshipwith your own arousal itself.
Okay, anything else you wouldlove to bring? Before we speak
about ways people can work withyou and find you anything else
you want to bring to theconversation? And now
I feel like we've covered a lotof like Juicy, juicy information
about sex drive libido desire.
It's such a nuanced andmultifaceted topic though. So I

would really, really encouragepeople to recognize how
multifaceted they are. And theirrelationship with desire is
never going to be just a quickfix. I wish it was, I wish I
could be like, here, just dothis one practice and you'll be
fine. It's more of an in depthlike journey of self discovery,
and like, really taking the timewith your partner to explore

completely. I was gonna I wasgonna say people talk about baby
brain, but I think it's when youbecome a mom, but I don't know
what 20 pregnant. Were how Iknow you've got a libido course
coming out that you're currentlycreating, which I know there's

probably a bunch of peoplelistening to this that are like,
yes, I would love moreinformation on that. you've
currently got a waitlist forthat?
I do. Yeah, I've got a waitlist,I can send you the link to that
amazing shownotes. And yeah, itwill be launching pretty soon.
It's just in the works. It'sprobably the most in depth thing
that I have created and wroteabout creating because of the

multifaceted layered nature oflibido. You know, I really
originally wanted to just createlike a short and sweet little
thing, but it's such a big topicthat I want to do it justice, I
felt like it would be adisservice if it was just like a
really short, quick course. Soit's going to have a lot of
juicy information, six logicalconcepts. But also I'll have

some guest experts on topicslike hormones and stress and
sleep and SSRIs, things likethat. So like impact your libido
that aren't necessarily sexillogical. And also, it'll have,
you know, embodiment practicesand exercises for your own self
exploration as well as intimacyexercises with partners. So it's

going to be juicy. Yeah. Okay,so we'll put the I'll put the
link below. And then for thosethat aren't following you, or
don't know more about your work,tell them how they can find you.
And anything else you want toyou want to share. Amazing.
Thank you. So my name is EleanorHadley. And my handle is just at
Eleanor Hadley and website isEleanor as well, and
so you can find all my programsand everything. They're amazing.

And Eleanor does for those ofyou that have watched the pussy
Pro and BJJ Queen episodes, l&rdoes a course called tongue
tactics so you can go and learnhow to be a tongue tactician.
Exactly in your head game,modified tongue tactician. It's
fun to say.
It's fun to be over like 720students or something at the

moment. That's wild. It's doneso well and people love it. So
if you want like reallypractical stuff go there. For
sure. Perfect.
I love that. That's your legacyin the world. Yeah, it's all out
I can dowhat a violence to vest legacy
to leave the world. Ididn't I didn't think that this
would be my legacy. But I'mhappy because it's fine. You

know, if you guys are havingpleasure, because to me, my
pleasure. Your pleasure. It's mypleasure.
Thank you, my love. This hasbeen so beautiful. Thank you.
Bye beautiful humans. See younext week.
Yo, yo, yo, thank you so muchfor tuning in to another episode

of sex, love and everything inbetween. Now if you'd like to
stay connected with Megan, I Youcan head on over to Instagram
and follow me at the JacobO'Neill and where can people
find you lover atthe dot mag dot o
amazing and yeah, guys, checkout the show notes for all the
information in regards to whatwe've got coming up. And yeah,

we're super super grateful thatyou guys for taking the time to
listen to this podcast. If youdo have any topics or any
questions, like I said, hit usup on Instagram and we'll see
what we can do. Apart from thathave a beautiful, beautiful rest
of your day. Thanks for beinghere. Big Big Love.
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