February 18, 2025 • 40 mins
This episode emphasizes the joy of participation, the thrill of goal setting, and the empowerment found in staying true to one's passion.
Ever wondered why some of us feel the thrill of competition more fiercely than others? Join us as we unravel the psychology behind competitive motivation in dog training. Discover how personality traits like agreeableness and neuroticism influence our competitive instincts and shape our behaviour in the arena.
The emotional bond with our dogs is at the heart of competitive dog sports. Hear personal anecdotes about the transformation from a grumpy, mistake-fearing competitor to someone who embraces the journey and laughs at blunders. With stories of two distinct dogs, we explore the importance of valuing their unique traits and adjusting our approaches to foster stronger connections, even when those bonds don't form easily at first. The magic lies in appreciating each dog's individuality and nurturing a deeper relationship through understanding.
Competitive dog sports can be addictive, drawing enthusiasts in with a love for dogs and a vibrant community spirit. Learn about grit, resilience, and the emotional intelligence of dogs in this engaging narrative that spans from local competitions to the grand stage of events like Crufts. Whether you're chasing victory or celebrating small wins, the camaraderie of dog lovers worldwide is a testament to the shared passion that keeps us all in the game.
If you’re loving the podcast, you’ll love our NEW Sexier than a Squirrel Dog Training Challenge even more! Get transformational dog training today for only £27!
Want even more epic dog training fun and games and solutions to all your dog training struggles? Join us in the AbsoluteDogs Games Club!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lauren Langman (00:09):
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
Hello and welcome to the Sexand Squirrel podcast, a podcast
(00:31):
that gives you real life results, even when you're doing a
podcast in a hat.
Now why am I in a hat?
The reason I'm in a hat is it'sblooming, freezing, and I
decided, if I take my hat off,I've got hat hair and I'm still
a little bit cold too.
So you know what?
We've been training.
We've been training a lot today, haven't we?
We've actually had a reallygood day.
It's been a long day, yeah, andwe were talking, and I think
this is so interesting.
(00:51):
We're talking today.
What makes people compete withdogs?
Like, why do people competewith dogs?
Like, what is this whole crazything about?
Because I've been a competitorwith dogs now for 25 years, that
scares me a little, because Iactually can't believe that's
quarter of a century I've beencompeting with dogs and I
remember the first time I everwent to a competition with a dog
, linda, that I jumped morejumps than my dog did.
(01:15):
I had no idea of thecompetition I was going into.
I really didn't have a clue andI would say now I'm a very
competent competitorno-transcript competitive sport
(01:53):
like we do.
So, as a psychotherapist, assomebody who's got huge
understanding of people and howwe think and why we think and
what we do, and as this is anarea that I know you've looked
into, what's this all about?
Linda Hughes (02:06):
what's it all about?
Well, for you, I think you areinnately competitive, so that
that and you've just described asort of naught to a hundred
mile an hour experience, likethe first time you went in you
weren't, you weren'tparticularly good, you jumped
more jumps than your dog, andnow you know you're the lean,
mean killing machine when youwalk into an agility ring, um,
(02:31):
so that's, that's a.
That's a big gap, and manypeople are somewhere in between.
Um, there's two types of peoplereally.
There's people who are innatelycompetitive.
Now, that comes from all sortsof situations.
You can be genetically justthat's the way of situations.
You can be genetically justthat's the way you are.
You could be brought up in afamily you know the ones that
play all the board games or yougrew up with three brothers, so
(02:55):
you had to compete foreverything, whatever it is.
There could be a family that'svery competitive, um, and I've
got a really quick thought onthat.
Lauren Langman (03:03):
Yes, and I think my parents never had time for
board games because my parentswere both very, very, very
hardworking.
I think lots of people have gotsort of various different
histories.
My history was my parents werevery, very, very working class.
Dad was a carpenter,electrician.
Mum worked a million jobs, soactually we didn't have anything
and I think we had nothing.
(03:23):
So I I think, having nothing,you had to fight for anything
you wanted, but that's what theymodeled for you.
Yeah, they learned that thatdrive.
And then 11, I did the same assoon as I could have a job,
because we couldn't have a lot.
I wanted to work hard and Iwanted to work hard so we could
have more, because I could seehow important it was and I would
always try and contribute and Iwould always try and build and
(03:43):
earn.
So I'm listening and I'mthinking.
Linda Hughes (03:45):
I never thought about it, but I wonder if that's
where that came from, becauseI've always wanted to hustle to
try and help the family missionyeah, so that that will have
contributed to your drive andyour desire to better yourself,
to, to win, to, to createwhatever a better life for you
and your family.
So then there's there's alsopeople get some satisfaction
(04:08):
from being seen to have achievedthings, so that's that sort of
self-confidence or self-belief,or a sort of some sort of reward
for themselves.
But but a lot of people don'thave very strong competitive um,
because they may be, too, whatwe call agreeable and that's a
(04:32):
that's actually.
I don't know whether you everdid, um psychometric testing in
any of your jobs or career, butyou know where you have to fill
in this long questionnaire andthey rank like um, I'm trying to
think of one that we've done alot of.
Lauren Langman (04:46):
We've done one.
It's a.
It's a tony robbins oneactually, I can't remember the
name of it.
Yeah, but um, but yeah, youtest and it tells you what
personality well in the five,the five groups in the
personality types.
Linda Hughes (04:59):
Of the personality types, agreeableness and
neuroticism are the two thatcontribute most to being
competitive, crazy and you wouldguess, neuroticism.
Lauren Langman (05:08):
Actually I can see it.
Now you can see why I can't.
Linda Hughes (05:11):
The agreeabilism I didn't think well because if
you are at the far end ofdisagreeableness, then you're
quite aggressive, you're quitepushy, you're quite
argumentative, all of that sortof stuff whereas the other end
of agreeableness so if you'vegot a higher agreeableness scale
score, then you're tooagreeable and you're too like
(05:34):
passive or passive, and but ifyou've got a low agreeable score
, then you're going to be muchmore aggressive, much more
argument so which one of thosewould be competitive?
Lauren Langman (05:44):
the low, yeah, because I'm saying I'm
definitely more towards thatspace.
I'm like, yeah, I wouldchallenge something or I would
try and like push something.
Linda Hughes (05:52):
That's that's that's the first thing you try.
That plays into competitivenessand then neuroticism you agree
about so?
Lauren Langman (06:01):
but that's a seesaw.
Oh well, I see it and I see Isuppose some of the people I
think are the best in the sportthat I compete in they're
borderline nuts with it, likeit's.
It's done to a degree that Ithink wow, that's extreme.
And I'm thinking of twocompetitors in particular I'm
not going to mention names, butI'm thinking two competitors
that they take it to a levelthat I can't even think about,
like it's too crazy.
(06:22):
For me.
It's like their.
Their level of um recordkeeping, for example, is nuts.
For me.
It's so extreme and I canreally feel that neuroticism
which I've never thought aboutbefore.
So it's such an interestingword to put here.
Linda Hughes (06:34):
Yes, because it almost is borderline nuts, it is
it is, but, but it has, likeall of these things, it's a
seesaw.
So it'll have a positive sideand a downside.
So if you're too neurotic interms of sensitivity, then you
won't be particularlycompetitive because you don't
want to be shown up.
(06:54):
You don't want to, you know,you find it too stressful.
You might be, you know,overwhelmed by anxiety or all of
that sort of thing.
So.
So there's always a plus and aminus side to it all.
But they're the two personalitytraits that play mostly into
competitiveness.
But then there's this dog sportside, because very often what
(07:17):
happens is people get a dog andthey want to do something with
the dog.
They've never done a dog sport.
They get their dog and theywant to teach the dog or teach
the dog to behave itself.
They go to a club or they go toa group or something and they
find that they quite enjoy therelationship with the dog, the
doing something with the dog,and then they get into a dog
(07:38):
sport and then they're gettingpositive feedback for being
competent at learning a skill.
So they're feeling good aboutlearning a skill, their dog's
learning.
This is all lovely, but the dogsport is.
Then there's an opportunity tocompete and then some people can
get into quite a dilemma aboutthat.
I didn't get into this tocompete and others are.
(07:58):
Well, I want to compete becauseI want to measure myself
against everybody else who'sdoing this dog sport.
But I find it really hard.
I get very anxious or I fall topieces or I make mistakes in
the ring or all of these thingscome up and there's a switch
from there's an innatemotivation for training a dog.
(08:20):
You're learning a skill, soyou're sort of it's a
self-rewarding thing, you feelgood about yourself, you're
being a better dog trainer, thedog's learning, it's all lovely.
But then there's the externalreward.
Do we want the prizes?
Do we want the red ribbon is?
Do we really want that?
So then we go from an innatemotivation to an external
(08:43):
motivation.
So the motivation is now theprize.
So then it it switches.
And that's where a lot ofpeople struggle in a dog sport,
because owning a dog usually isabout affiliation, it's about
relationship.
And then when we say, oh, we'regoing to compete, then suddenly
it's not about relationshipanymore, it's about me against
(09:05):
everybody else.
Lauren Langman (09:07):
Which is such a different space.
Now I'm thinking about this andactually I say so often,
actually I'm really notinterested in rosettes, like the
rosettes do not interest me atall, but I'm so interested in
qualification.
Qualification is like a massivedriver and when I think about
it it's a level of gamification.
So that gamification, whereas Isay like I'm not interested in
Tetris or Nintendos or differenttypes of like gamification of
(09:28):
other things, but actually whenI think about it I really am,
because the gamification of mydog sport I'm very interested in
, I'm all in, and whether that'squalifying for crafts, whether
whether it's qualifying forOlympia, whether it's qualifying
for any big event, really Ilove the gamification.
So I really love thegamification, um, and I love the
qualification.
So that's again anotherextrinsic or external, but a
(09:50):
different external to therosette form.
Like I could throw the rosettein the bin, like I'm not
interested.
I'm like quite like a photo.
But again that's like a publicperception thing, I imagine, and
a level of as much as I don'tthink I'm an ego-driven person,
I think there's a level of egothat's in there as much as I
don't necessarily I'm anego-driven person.
I think there's a level of egothat's in there, as much as I
don't necessarily always want toacknowledge that.
Linda Hughes (10:06):
But there's always in somebody.
There's always that to someextent, and to be able to say,
yes, it is ego-driven.
I mean, I compete in obedience.
Every dog I get in my mind isgoing to be a championship-level
dog and that's where I go and Ican get.
You know, I have to be carefulnot to be sniffy about the lower
(10:28):
classes, um, but but that's,that's my mindset and that's my
ego.
I am a championship handler,that's what I do, um, and that's
ego.
That's me getting some positivereinforcement and feeling good
about myself.
It.
It builds my self-esteem.
But there's nothing wrong withthese things, as long as we're
aware of them and we acknowledgethem and that we don't become
(10:50):
the competitor that stomps outthe ring because they didn't win
.
Lauren Langman (10:54):
It's such a brilliant topic and I really
love this topic because it'sI've had a few life-changing
events, I suppose that havechanged me from being that
competitor and I was thatcompetitor.
So if you picked me up 20 yearsago maybe, maybe 15 years ago I
was definitely the competitorthat could stomp out the ring in
a grump.
I was definitely the competitorthat could go home and Matt and
(11:15):
I would have a really horriblejourney home because we just
wouldn't talk and I would be insuch a grump, not disappointed
in yourself when you've done itwrong, or disappointed that your
dog hasn't necessarily got theskill you thought they had, or
disappointed that your traininghasn't held up, or disappointed
that the judge's course wasn'tthe course for you, or
disappointed that you drove allthat way.
It wasn't necessarily worth it.
And and the event that changedmy life, I think, with
(11:36):
competitive dog sports waslosing Matt's dog and we lost
him in a really tragic accidentcar accident and um, he was four
, he was championship mattmatt's hopes and dreams for dogs
and hopes and dreams for thecompeting and hopes and dreams
for all the energy he put in,like he'd done a great job.
And he was not only his hisfirst ever like bred dog for
(11:58):
agility, so we bought him foragility.
He was also a really talenteddog and so that minute of losing
him you know what it?
It gave me a huge realizationof what it was all about.
And actually I didn't reallycare so much about the dog sport
.
I cared that we'd lost ourfriend and I cared that, um, I
almost felt like I wish I'd donemore, just having him as as our
(12:21):
friend and thinking about hisfuture in dog sports, and we
always thought about how much hewas going to win or how much he
was going to do or.
But you actually got the momenttaken away from you and he was.
He went too soon and I thinkthat moment well, I know that
moment changed my perception ofdog sports, like innately, like
done, finished, like I loved mydog sport, but I love my dog
more and I love the experience.
(12:43):
And then I also, every time Isat on the start line with a dog
, I'd always think to myself younever know when this is your
last time and you don't knowwhat's going to change.
And because you never thinkyou're going to lose a
four-year-old dog and I've lostthree, I feel like, um, I lost
my Tokyo at four and Brave hadher accident at four.
I didn't lose her, but you kindof lose a lot of what your
hopes are and, um, we lost rightat four, and so for me, you
(13:05):
never know.
You never know when your lastopportunity is, and so I think
it's just changed my perceptionon the gratitude I feel for
being able to compete in a dogsport and the gratitude I feel
for being able to have my bestfriend and I in that like
privileged position, becauseit's a really privileged
position to stand there withyour um dog and to stand there
with a dog who wants to workwith you and wants to showcase
(13:26):
with you and want because theydon't opt in for this, no, it's
us that opt in for this, and soI actually feel very humbled by
my dogs and it's a differentfeeling to what I used to feel.
Yeah, um, so I don't know.
Yeah, I completely.
I was that competitor that wasgrumpy, right, and I'm not
anymore and I genuinely welldone for changing that.
Yeah, and I don't have any.
If I go wrong, I'm able tolaugh.
Yeah, it not always instantly.
(13:47):
Give me 20 seconds, sometimesit'll take me a second.
Or a coffee sometimes it'lltake me a pizza and sometimes
there's some level ofgratification with food.
Um, but I I can always turn itaround and I can always see the
good side in it and I the onlytime I struggle, you know, is if
a dog is injured.
If a dog is injured in the ring, so it comes out lame because
we're doing a fast dog sport,then I find that a little bit
(14:09):
harder.
I don't I'm not grumpy, I'mjust disappointed that my dog's
injured and I don't like that.
But I think that on the whole Ican normally come out smiling
and I smile when I go wrong andI smile when I go right and I
find the whole experienceenjoyable.
So that's a growth area, right,absolutely.
Linda Hughes (14:24):
A real, real growth area that's really making
great strides toward being morebalanced about what you do,
because, you're right, we don'task these dogs to do this for us
.
Lauren Langman (14:34):
Whatever it is we do with them and the other
thing that I work on with my dog, because in obedience we're so
close to each other and so haveto be so in tune with each other
in each other's space the wholetime on you.
Linda Hughes (14:51):
all the time that I have I do a lot of work in
getting my mindset right for thedog before I compete.
So that's doing everything inthe lead up to going into the
ring that gets me and the doginto the right space and in
training, making that absolutestrong connection with the dog
at an emotional level, becausethey are sentient beings and
(15:12):
they have feelings too and ifthey're tuned to us and we're
tuned to them, then therelationship and the competitive
relationship is much morepowerful.
Lauren Langman (15:25):
What you say there is really big as well,
because again, I can relate thisback to riot.
I owned right sister.
She was called tiki, and tikilived to a ripe old age of 16 17
she was.
She lived a very good age to avery good age and and when we
lost riot, I'd always comparedriot and tiki.
And tiki wasn't as good as riot, she wasn't as Riot, she wasn't
as mentally strong, she wasn'tas physically strong, she wasn't
(15:46):
as well built, she didn't havethe same heart, she was just
different.
She was a softer dog, muchsofter dog, and when we lost
Riot it allowed me to see her.
And as soon as I started to seeher because she was always not
as good, and suddenly I wasgrateful that she was always not
as good, and suddenly I wasgrateful that she was with us
because he wasn't, and suddenlythe pressure dropped as well,
(16:09):
because I realised that just theprivilege of him or her was
more important in thecompetition.
I think she went on to win sixchampionships and at the time I
didn't know she'd ever competebecause she was so nervous and
she was so sensitive.
And she won six championshipsand she was so sensitive and she
won six championships and wentto crafts, went to Olympia, went
to all the big events and shehad to jump way over a height
because our rules were differentthen.
(16:30):
And it's incredible to thinkthat that's what changed it.
And you're right, they're soemotionally connected Because I
permanently told myself and herthat we weren't good enough.
She wasn't good enough and Iwasn't happy with her and she
felt that and she knew that andshe knew she wasn't good enough
for me and I knew she wasn'twhat I wanted at the time.
(16:51):
And suddenly, when I changed thewhole perception of the whole
scenario and appreciated her forwho she was and stopped trying
to make her who she wasn't andstopped trying to force her a
square peg round hole situation.
And it's hard to admit that toyourself when you've actually
just not been a good dog trainerfor that dog and I'd never,
ever been unkind to her.
No, I was kind to her intraining, but actually I was
unkind in the sense I was tryingto force her to be something
(17:12):
she wasn't.
And when you look back on thatand you think to yourself like
I'm grateful for all the lessonsshe gave me and most of all,
and what good can come out ofsomething so awful.
That was it for me the abilityto see the dog for who she is
and not who she isn't well, Iyou know, I've got two
completely different dogs at themoment.
You couldn't have more opposite,like if you could combine those
two.
Yes, there is really theperfect dog, but actually they
(17:35):
are the perfect dog in their ownway they're, they're the two
ends of the spectrum and and the.
Linda Hughes (17:41):
The dilemma I get into and I have to work out
really hard, is I prefer one tothe other?
And the?
And the one that frustrates meI have to pay extra attention to
.
To connect with her so at home.
To connect with her, to havetime with her, because it's very
easy to push her aside and bewith the one that I like best
(18:03):
and and that's hard to admitsometimes, isn't it?
Lauren Langman (18:05):
and I think I like that, both of us at the
stage of our careers in dogs andand life really, that actually
there's been enough lifeexperience that we don't have to
try and pretend.
There's enough life experiencethat you can just be real and
say you know what I find youeasier to connect it to than you
.
So I actually have toacknowledge this.
Now I can hear a dog barkingdownstairs.
They've got a training classgoing on right now.
They've got quite a naughty butnice reactive dog who I know is
(18:27):
is is difficult in the groupand they're working with her and
the owner and I bet that that'shard for that owner to connect
with that dog right now.
I bet that's hard for thatowner to connect with that dog
at any time.
Actually, sometimes I thinkit's a hard dog to connect with
and the interesting point hereis, I think, for everybody, that
it's finding something thatthat you can connect with.
(18:48):
So what helps you to connectwith the dog that you find
harder to connect to?
Linda Hughes (18:53):
it's really important for me to spend time
sitting with her and actuallyconnecting with her.
So even when I'm on a trainingsession I will just sit down on
the grass with her and it's justher and me and try to really
make that real, valuableemotional connection.
And the more I build that, themore I can hold on to that when
(19:15):
she's doing things I don't like,so when she's noisy, she's
stressy, I can still hold on tothe real her, the the essence
that is her, that it is abeautiful, lovable dog who you
know just wants to work really,I just say, wants to please, and
it's just the excitement andthe arousal that kicks in, isn't
(19:35):
it?
Lauren Langman (19:35):
um?
And I think that's somethingthat's really um good to
acknowledge that there isfinding something good, because
when it gets tough, um, Iremember when someone told me
how to pick a puppy and theysaid always pick the puppy that
you naturally are drawn to,because when it gets really
tough, there's something thatdrew you there and you'll find
them easier to forgive, got tolike them, yeah, and and it is,
and I think it's differenthaving a.
I mean you tell us, um, I mean,this is this is definitely your
(19:58):
driven session here, becausethis is an expert area for you.
But there's something thatmakes it very addictive.
What we do right, somethingmakes it very, very addictive
and we want to keep going.
Like what's that about?
Linda Hughes (20:08):
like it's so addictive um well, success is
addictive, so it's it's a bitlike when we reward our dogs, we
we find it rewarding to achievethings, to, um, feel good about
ourselves because we'vemastered a task.
Lauren Langman (20:24):
But sometimes there is no success, or there's
a lack of success for a while,like how does that work?
And I think I know, but I wantto check with you.
Linda Hughes (20:31):
Well, that's where grit comes in in you as a human
being, because, I mean, I gotdrawn into my sport just because
I had an absolutely brilliantdog.
I wanted to do agility.
Lauren Langman (20:46):
I never got to do agility, um because, oh, it's
gonna be mine, I, I went.
Linda Hughes (20:52):
I went to an obedience club and never left
and went to the top in obedienceand here I am, so so that's um
but that that being in the cluband being part of that community
and being being um doingsomething I enjoy, something I'm
passionate about- because Ilove the people that don't win.
Lauren Langman (21:12):
What about the people that don't win?
So, what about the people thatdon't win?
Because there are enough peoplein sport that don't win.
Linda Hughes (21:18):
They get a lot out of the community.
Yeah, they get a lot out of thesense of supporting each other.
They get a lot out of theirrelationship with their dog.
So this thing about you knowyou always take the best dog
home there's a bit of me thatgoes really sometimes I look at
(21:39):
other dogs and think I'd quitelike to take that one home.
Yes, I'd rather like that one,that one won the ticket to go to
crufts.
Lauren Langman (21:45):
Wouldn't that be great yep, pop him in the car,
just hand it over.
Uh in he goes, spare cage umbut, but it's, it's that.
Linda Hughes (21:55):
It's that connection to the dog.
So you go into a dog sportbecause you love dogs.
There's never anybody in a dogsport who doesn't love their
dogs.
No, seriously.
I mean there may be people whoown dogs that don't love them,
just as pets, but certainly ifthey're in a dog sport that they
they love their dog.
Lauren Langman (22:11):
I couldn't think any any more highly of the dogs
I'm working with, because youhave a different relationship on
every level, don't you?
The relationship is very, veryspecial.
So what I'm thinking, then, ishow about and again, you
probably know more about thisthan I do when you've had a
series of not winning, like whatkeeps people in it Series of
not winning?
Linda Hughes (22:32):
Well, I've I've had um, five years since before
lockdown, I've I've beensidelined.
Yeah, I've been bringing onyoung dogs and it hasn't always
worked out.
Yeah, um, and I keep goingbecause, a I love my dogs and, b
I I want to be where, I want tobe that championship handler
(22:54):
again.
Lauren Langman (22:55):
I want to bring out the potential that I see in
the dogs that I've got andthat's going to be the feedback
I'll get, the positive feedbackI'll get when I can realise that
potential, because certainlyUlla's got a huge amount of
potential oh, amazing potentialand interesting that I think
mental game is going to bereally important for you and her
, and what I see for you and heris you're going to need to be
(23:17):
really robust for her and notreading too much into her.
You're actually gonna have tochill on it.
Linda Hughes (23:23):
my challenge is not getting disappointed.
Yeah, absolutely, because I'm abit of a perfectionist.
Yeah, then, when things are notgoing along to plan, then it's
very easy for me to bedisappointed, and the dogs pick
up on that, oh, and she'll pickup quicker than any dog Like
she'll pick.
Lauren Langman (23:39):
she's very emotionally intelligent dog.
She reads.
She'd be a brilliant sheep dogbecause she reads quick.
And if you think that the dogswere working, were bred to look
after the sheep in the sensethat they would read anything
from a distance and anythingfrom a group of I don't know a
thousand ewes and they could seeone that was lame to be able to
(24:00):
siphon it off.
Linda Hughes (24:01):
Amazing work, I had an experience when I was
with my trainer.
We do sendaways, which is wherewe the dog goes from us to a
mark in the distance.
I was doing sendaways and whenwe're training, I do a thing
called we call loading, which isbetween the legs, and it's a
bit like a greyhound.
Yeah, so like restraint, yeah,yeah.
So I'm restraining andrestraining and restraining and
(24:24):
winding up and I have to bendover to do this and um.
So I let her go and I stood upand she stopped halfway and
looked around at me.
My trainer said to me but youmoved and I went, I didn't move,
I didn't move, thinking, Ididn't move my feet, but you
actually just moved your body.
I just moved my body and sheknew, although she was going
(24:45):
away, from me?
Lauren Langman (24:46):
Yeah, because she wasn't looking, but she
still felt the energy.
And I remember being very youngI was probably, probably I got
Bella when I was 14 or 15.
I was young and I remember withthat Bella was my first border
collie and I remember sitting ina vehicle we're having fish and
chips, the Elverton moors, nearthe big rock, and I remember
watching these sheep suddenlymoving from one spot to another
(25:08):
and there she was in the car,laser, targeting them and moving
them with her eyes like they'reimpactful, those dogs, those
dogs that are emotionallyintelligent or energetically
intelligent, and I truly believethat.
Now, thinking about dog sportsand why people do it, how people
do it, um, the reasons they doit, the people around them that
(25:29):
do it, what else can you tell us, linda?
Linda Hughes (25:31):
well, I've been in a group this this week here
having a lovely, lovely timewith people who've come from all
over the world because theylove dogs and they also love
absolute dogs.
Um, and they just watching them, their, their faces light up
their the delight in the group,the celebrations that have gone
(25:52):
on in the group when people haveachieved things with their dogs
, and that joy is what keepspeople infectious.
Lauren Langman (26:00):
Now what you say there is so so true and so so
valuable and so so what I loveabout dog sports.
But often at the top of dogsports, someone's back and like
that.
What's that like so at the topof dog?
Linda Hughes (26:13):
sports.
Yeah, what's that like, what'sthat like?
So that's a topic of.
Yeah, what I call unhealthycompetitiveness comes in.
So there are people who want towin at all costs.
There are people who are, whodo what really human beings do
in all walks of life and in allareas, which is become tribal,
(26:34):
become cliquey.
So there's the ins and the outs, there's the them and the us.
They form alliances, which usedto be my village against your
village.
So we get the alliances formed,so it's us against them.
And all that starts coming atthe top end of the sport,
(26:56):
because the stakes are higher somuch higher.
Lauren Langman (27:00):
It's like an elitism that's at that space and
I I love my dog sport and atthe same time there's parts of
it I think I don't want toassociate with that at all, like
that's so not what I want toassociate with.
It feels very much like achildhood gang or a childhood
like playground group of of kidsand I sometimes listen or think
that is so not where my headspace is and I feel like in one
part of my life I'm a grown-upand another part I'm like I do
(27:23):
feel like I'm in a playgroundwell, I'm, you know, being a
very sensitive soul.
Linda Hughes (27:27):
I've struggled hugely with that recently and
felt really sort of on theoutside and I've had to really
work on focusing on why I'mdoing it and what I'm going to
do to achieve what I want,regardless of all the peripheral
nonsense that goes on.
(27:48):
And that's about beingconfident in myself and walking
my own path and staying awayfrom that negative energy yeah,
being in your own lane.
Lauren Langman (27:57):
I've got an example of that negative energy.
I took a dog to Olympia about10 years ago, nine years ago,
and a friend of mine or a personI knew, not so much a friend
but someone I knew, anacquaintance she had a sister,
she had a sibling of my dog andI remember her saying, and I
remember Matt saying to me donot, whatever you do, buy into
that.
Like don't buy into that,because you'll have lots of
negative things to say.
(28:17):
And she was just all she coulddo is keep saying negative
things about the dog, negativethings about the course,
negative things.
And matt actually got hold ofme and moved me.
He was like do not stand there,get over somewhere else,
because that is infectious.
Anyway, I won that round and Iwon the afternoon round, I won
the overall day, probably one ofthe highlights of my life to
win overall.
I've had a few of thoseopportunities, which has been
great classics done the same forme.
(28:38):
Um, so has blink multi-times,which is really lovely to have
those big winning experiences.
They're quite specialexperiences, um, but what I
would definitely say and I Ireally appreciate this is the
effect of negative energy aroundyou, because it's big, isn't it
?
It is big, it is it is big andit's real.
Linda Hughes (28:56):
You know, we can sort of sort of say oh no, no,
everybody's in it to be friendlyand and there is friendliness
at some level, um, but there isa lot of negative energy and um,
and that gets expressed at thenearer the top you get and what
do you think that's about?
Lauren Langman (29:11):
like there are, there seem to be some people in
there that seem to attract moreof it or seem to want to be part
of it, or seem to create it.
I'm not sure what that's about.
What's that about dog sportscompetitiveness?
Where is all that from?
Because that's the part I wouldprefer not to have.
Linda Hughes (29:25):
You have people come in that have that innate
tendency to be over-competitiveand tendency to be over
competitive and certainly um,there are people in obedience
who want to win everything andwin all the um subsidiary prizes
that might be going and clearup for the weekend, and I'm sure
that they um, because you don'tneed to win everything to
(29:45):
qualify.
You know my world, I qualifyand I move on.
Lauren Langman (29:49):
Oh, me too I qualify and then I get myself a
prosecco, I grab some cheese,maybe some champagne, and we go
home.
Linda Hughes (29:56):
I don't, I don't need any more red cards to
decorate my downstairs toiletthank you very much.
Toilet paper yes I don't needany more.
But there are people who do.
Yeah, there are people whoclean up.
Um that creates negative energywrapped for them with other
people, yeah.
So then you get a you knowdivision starting, um, but the
(30:17):
near the prize becomes moreimportant.
The prize of the championship,the prize of going to cross or
whatever the prize is, becomesso important that people start
to behave in ways that are notvery attractive, and then also
in obedience particularly, wehave the style issue.
Lauren Langman (30:36):
So that's the way dogs are trained that's a
hard one as well, isn't it?
Because it's so um, it's opento it, it's, it's.
It is subjective.
Linda Hughes (30:44):
Yes yeah, and, and they're just a different ways
that people choose to train dogsand different styles in which
dogs work, and that's fine, youknow.
Let everybody do their ownthing is what I say.
But I know who might like mydog and who might not like my
dog Because of the style,because of the style.
Lauren Langman (31:02):
And so I suppose as a bit of a roundup here,
linda, because I think we couldprobably talk mental game and
why people compete for a long,long time, but would you have
any tips for people who are incompetitive dog sports, going
forwards and healthy things thatmaybe they can either do or
think about or know or just evenhave the awareness of going
forwards?
Linda Hughes (31:21):
so number one is prioritize your dog, so build
the relationship with your dog,and when you go to a show or go
to compete, it's about you andyour dog, not about you and
anybody else.
So that's number one.
Secondly, get your ownheadspace right, so don't worry
about what other people aredoing thinking when you go in
(31:44):
the ring, this is the one thingthat you get in a beat.
It's a lot.
Oh, people might be watching me.
Actually, people are notwatching you there, because
they're all more interested intheir own world than they are in
yours.
You know you're in the ring forthree minutes.
Who's going to be bothered?
Not many people.
So just don't worry about whatother people are thinking,
(32:05):
because they're usually thinkingabout what they're going to
have for their lunch.
Lauren Langman (32:08):
And I love the idea of control the controllable
.
You just can't.
You can't actually change whatthey're thinking anyway, even if
you wanted to right, it'salmost like you frustrate
yourself, yeah, and you justwind yourself up and make
yourself more anxious.
Linda Hughes (32:22):
Just don't worry about it.
And then the other one, withobedience that I stress with
people a lot is whatever happensin the ring, you are the judge
of whether that was good, bad orindifferent.
Not the judge of whether thatwas good, bad or indifferent.
Not the judge Because, unlikeagility, where you've either won
it or not won it or whatever,or you've knocked a pole down or
you haven't, there is asubjective element to obedience
(32:44):
which means that the judge willscore you.
Lauren Langman (32:50):
And that might not be the score that you would
have liked to have givenyourself.
Linda Hughes (32:53):
Oh, I'd definitely be giving myself 10 out of 10.
That's right.
But so you go in and you, youare pleased with what your dog's
achieved.
And if the dog has achieved anddelivered on what the way
they've been trained and againsthow you've trained them, then
be pleased with that, regardlessof where you come.
Lauren Langman (33:07):
I think it's brilliant.
And I have one to add herewhich I think you'll you'll like
, and, um, I've won at Cruftsand I've had what I would call a
slightly dodgy call on a on aseesaw and I felt, oh, I got
away with that one.
It was high, it wasn't probablymy criteria.
She pushed me, I went with whatshe gave me, because you're in
the middle of Crufts, she can'tstop her and put her back and
(33:27):
the judge didn't mark me.
So you go with what you get,like you go with it.
That's what you were given andthat's the hand you were dealt.
And I think a lot of peoplewould really be hard on
themselves after that.
And I feel that whether you winor you lose, um, you win some,
you lose some, like I've.
I've lost when I felt I've gotthe criteria and the judge
hasn't seen it, and that's oursubjective element.
(33:48):
You're going as a human, not arobot, and I've won when I
thought maybe I should have beencalled on something, even at
the biggest height, like biggestarena.
I've lost in the biggest arenasand I've won in the biggest
arenas and I really believe youwin some, you lose some.
You do, and I feel like youhave to have a good attitude to
that, and I feel like the moreyou try and get angry, upset,
disappointed or hold on to it,that's not very healthy, and so
(34:10):
actually being able to, Isuppose, let it go and being
able to realize that's just partof being in dog sport or a
competitive sport where youcan't control those things you
can't control it.
Linda Hughes (34:20):
Yeah, so I mean I've I've had situations where
I've done what I thought was astonking round with my young dog
.
I don't look at the scoresalways because we do scent later
on and I don't want to, I don'twant to give the dog any
anxiety about scent because I'mleading the class or anything,
so I don't look.
I went back and I did scent andI saw he's.
He's done really well.
He was in, he was in the noviceclass and I went to the
(34:44):
scoreboard and to have a look atmy score.
I was nowhere near any rosettewhatsoever and it was like oh,
okay, then Didn't quite readthat one.
Lauren Langman (34:55):
That's so interesting, isn't it?
Isn't it interesting really,isn't that fascinating?
I mean, the thing for us isthat ultimately, we're
privileged.
We love our dogs.
I couldn't imagine doinganything more fun.
And Matt often says to meyou're so lucky, you've got such
passion for it.
Like you've got passion, you'vegot something.
You're so lucky, you've gotsuch passion for it.
Like you've got passion, you'vegot something you're really
passionate about is I wish I hadsomething I was that passionate
(35:16):
about, and I think that issomething high five, I'm very,
very lucky, because it gets youout of bed in the morning.
Well, I I had lost my mojo.
Linda Hughes (35:20):
I mean in competing, I've really lost my
mojo, and it's only in the lastyear that I've just got it back
again, and now we're on track ontarget, on target.
Lauren Langman (35:30):
So with that mind, some of my goals I'm going
to share, because the more Ishare them, the more I know I
can help to realise them.
So some of my goals I have got.
Wild at Crufts.
She is a novice dog at Crufts.
Wild is different to Skittle.
I naturally find myself moredrawn to a dog like Skittle,
who's very, very able and very,very talented.
(35:51):
With Wild you have to work itdifferently.
She's not as easy to sort of umhave working and she's not
physically as capable either.
And I find that quite hard whena dog some dogs are more
physically capable than othersfuller versus senzi and and wild
versus skittle, and skittlebeing the more of the capable
one really.
But I feel like we can go clearin that environment.
(36:12):
I can't control what the otherdogs do, but I want to go clear
in that environment.
So she's qualified for crafts.
She's going to crafts in March.
I think that's quite excitingand let's see what she's got
really.
And then Skittle I can't waitto qualify her for crafts,
qualify her for Olympia, which Ithink will be a brilliant
environment for her because it'sa big, open course environment.
She's a fast little snake andthen get her to crafts in 2026
(36:33):
because she can go in the novicein 2026 and then championship
in 2027.
So, um, I think they'll will bedrinking champagne is my goal,
linda.
What are your goals, okay?
Linda Hughes (36:43):
so I've always been very reluctant to set goals
, but I have now.
So um ulla, who's the one withthe potential, huge potential.
She hasn't even competed yet,well, she hasn't even been
entered, so she'll start innovice, but my goal is she'll be
at Crufts in 2027.
(37:03):
Yes, high five.
Lauren Langman (37:05):
You're going to get there in 2027.
And we know that that is stilla push.
It is a push Because there's alot for an obedience dog to do
to be able to get there.
It's not like you're going in ababy dog class, you're going in
a championship level.
And how about senzi?
What sort of goals have you got?
Linda Hughes (37:20):
so I at the moment .
My goal is to get her into thering at the start of this season
, um and for her to complete around without making any noise
brilliant.
Lauren Langman (37:31):
That's it.
So to complete, so, somethingso and again, different dogs,
different horses.
For her, actually, the easierthe round, or the round that
doesn't wind her so much is abetter round.
You don't want to give her around where she gets frustrated.
No, whereas with Ulla, we needto challenge her enough and not
over face her and at the sametime, put her in a position
where she can get to where weneed to get her to and keep her
(37:51):
confident.
So I think it's really exciting.
It's really really exciting,yes, exciting times ahead, that
is, and it's lovely, it givespurpose, it gives huge purpose.
And the other thing, though,that even when we set goals,
actually sometimes we might needto reassess and check in.
And I know that you've got thearena here, you've got all of
our support and and we'redefinitely behind you, so I'm
(38:11):
excited.
I'm excited both all girls atcruft.
So this episode, we've covered alot.
We've covered some mindset,we've covered why we compete and
what even that genetic makeupmight be, or where did that even
come from?
And I certainly think mine camefrom probably a little bit of
hardship and maybe a little bitof struggle and a little bit of
wanting something that we didn'thave, and I think the
(38:32):
interesting thing is thatthere's lots we can control
around mindset.
There's lots we can controlaround competitiveness, and
there's certainly people wemight want to align with and
there's certainly people wemight not want to align with,
and actually we can control that.
Right, linda, absolutely right.
I'm excited.
I'm excited for the future.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
That was this episode of theSex and Squirrel podcast.
I hope you join me for the nextepisode and remember stay sexy.
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
Hello and welcome to the Sexand Squirrel podcast, a podcast
(00:31):
that gives you real life results, even when you're doing a
podcast in a hat.
Now why am I in a hat?
The reason I'm in a hat is it'sblooming, freezing, and I
decided, if I take my hat off,I've got hat hair and I'm still
a little bit cold too.
So you know what?
We've been training.
We've been training a lot today, haven't we?
We've actually had a reallygood day.
It's been a long day, yeah, andwe were talking, and I think
this is so interesting.
(00:51):
We're talking today.
What makes people compete withdogs?
Like, why do people competewith dogs?
Like, what is this whole crazything about?
Because I've been a competitorwith dogs now for 25 years, that
scares me a little, because Iactually can't believe that's
quarter of a century I've beencompeting with dogs and I
remember the first time I everwent to a competition with a dog
, linda, that I jumped morejumps than my dog did.
(01:15):
I had no idea of thecompetition I was going into.
I really didn't have a clue andI would say now I'm a very
competent competitorno-transcript competitive sport
(01:53):
like we do.
So, as a psychotherapist, assomebody who's got huge
understanding of people and howwe think and why we think and
what we do, and as this is anarea that I know you've looked
into, what's this all about?
Linda Hughes (02:06):
what's it all about?
Well, for you, I think you areinnately competitive, so that
that and you've just described asort of naught to a hundred
mile an hour experience, likethe first time you went in you
weren't, you weren'tparticularly good, you jumped
more jumps than your dog, andnow you know you're the lean,
mean killing machine when youwalk into an agility ring, um,
(02:31):
so that's, that's a.
That's a big gap, and manypeople are somewhere in between.
Um, there's two types of peoplereally.
There's people who are innatelycompetitive.
Now, that comes from all sortsof situations.
You can be genetically justthat's the way of situations.
You can be genetically justthat's the way you are.
You could be brought up in afamily you know the ones that
play all the board games or yougrew up with three brothers, so
(02:55):
you had to compete foreverything, whatever it is.
There could be a family that'svery competitive, um, and I've
got a really quick thought onthat.
Lauren Langman (03:03):
Yes, and I think my parents never had time for
board games because my parentswere both very, very, very
hardworking.
I think lots of people have gotsort of various different
histories.
My history was my parents werevery, very, very working class.
Dad was a carpenter,electrician.
Mum worked a million jobs, soactually we didn't have anything
and I think we had nothing.
(03:23):
So I I think, having nothing,you had to fight for anything
you wanted, but that's what theymodeled for you.
Yeah, they learned that thatdrive.
And then 11, I did the same assoon as I could have a job,
because we couldn't have a lot.
I wanted to work hard and Iwanted to work hard so we could
have more, because I could seehow important it was and I would
always try and contribute and Iwould always try and build and
(03:43):
earn.
So I'm listening and I'mthinking.
Linda Hughes (03:45):
I never thought about it, but I wonder if that's
where that came from, becauseI've always wanted to hustle to
try and help the family missionyeah, so that that will have
contributed to your drive andyour desire to better yourself,
to, to win, to, to createwhatever a better life for you
and your family.
So then there's there's alsopeople get some satisfaction
(04:08):
from being seen to have achievedthings, so that's that sort of
self-confidence or self-belief,or a sort of some sort of reward
for themselves.
But but a lot of people don'thave very strong competitive um,
because they may be, too, whatwe call agreeable and that's a
(04:32):
that's actually.
I don't know whether you everdid, um psychometric testing in
any of your jobs or career, butyou know where you have to fill
in this long questionnaire andthey rank like um, I'm trying to
think of one that we've done alot of.
Lauren Langman (04:46):
We've done one.
It's a.
It's a tony robbins oneactually, I can't remember the
name of it.
Yeah, but um, but yeah, youtest and it tells you what
personality well in the five,the five groups in the
personality types.
Linda Hughes (04:59):
Of the personality types, agreeableness and
neuroticism are the two thatcontribute most to being
competitive, crazy and you wouldguess, neuroticism.
Lauren Langman (05:08):
Actually I can see it.
Now you can see why I can't.
Linda Hughes (05:11):
The agreeabilism I didn't think well because if
you are at the far end ofdisagreeableness, then you're
quite aggressive, you're quitepushy, you're quite
argumentative, all of that sortof stuff whereas the other end
of agreeableness so if you'vegot a higher agreeableness scale
score, then you're tooagreeable and you're too like
(05:34):
passive or passive, and but ifyou've got a low agreeable score
, then you're going to be muchmore aggressive, much more
argument so which one of thosewould be competitive?
Lauren Langman (05:44):
the low, yeah, because I'm saying I'm
definitely more towards thatspace.
I'm like, yeah, I wouldchallenge something or I would
try and like push something.
Linda Hughes (05:52):
That's that's that's the first thing you try.
That plays into competitivenessand then neuroticism you agree
about so?
Lauren Langman (06:01):
but that's a seesaw.
Oh well, I see it and I see Isuppose some of the people I
think are the best in the sportthat I compete in they're
borderline nuts with it, likeit's.
It's done to a degree that Ithink wow, that's extreme.
And I'm thinking of twocompetitors in particular I'm
not going to mention names, butI'm thinking two competitors
that they take it to a levelthat I can't even think about,
like it's too crazy.
(06:22):
For me.
It's like their.
Their level of um recordkeeping, for example, is nuts.
For me.
It's so extreme and I canreally feel that neuroticism
which I've never thought aboutbefore.
So it's such an interestingword to put here.
Linda Hughes (06:34):
Yes, because it almost is borderline nuts, it is
it is, but, but it has, likeall of these things, it's a
seesaw.
So it'll have a positive sideand a downside.
So if you're too neurotic interms of sensitivity, then you
won't be particularlycompetitive because you don't
want to be shown up.
(06:54):
You don't want to, you know,you find it too stressful.
You might be, you know,overwhelmed by anxiety or all of
that sort of thing.
So.
So there's always a plus and aminus side to it all.
But they're the two personalitytraits that play mostly into
competitiveness.
But then there's this dog sportside, because very often what
(07:17):
happens is people get a dog andthey want to do something with
the dog.
They've never done a dog sport.
They get their dog and theywant to teach the dog or teach
the dog to behave itself.
They go to a club or they go toa group or something and they
find that they quite enjoy therelationship with the dog, the
doing something with the dog,and then they get into a dog
(07:38):
sport and then they're gettingpositive feedback for being
competent at learning a skill.
So they're feeling good aboutlearning a skill, their dog's
learning.
This is all lovely, but the dogsport is.
Then there's an opportunity tocompete and then some people can
get into quite a dilemma aboutthat.
I didn't get into this tocompete and others are.
(07:58):
Well, I want to compete becauseI want to measure myself
against everybody else who'sdoing this dog sport.
But I find it really hard.
I get very anxious or I fall topieces or I make mistakes in
the ring or all of these thingscome up and there's a switch
from there's an innatemotivation for training a dog.
(08:20):
You're learning a skill, soyou're sort of it's a
self-rewarding thing, you feelgood about yourself, you're
being a better dog trainer, thedog's learning, it's all lovely.
But then there's the externalreward.
Do we want the prizes?
Do we want the red ribbon is?
Do we really want that?
So then we go from an innatemotivation to an external
(08:43):
motivation.
So the motivation is now theprize.
So then it it switches.
And that's where a lot ofpeople struggle in a dog sport,
because owning a dog usually isabout affiliation, it's about
relationship.
And then when we say, oh, we'regoing to compete, then suddenly
it's not about relationshipanymore, it's about me against
(09:05):
everybody else.
Lauren Langman (09:07):
Which is such a different space.
Now I'm thinking about this andactually I say so often,
actually I'm really notinterested in rosettes, like the
rosettes do not interest me atall, but I'm so interested in
qualification.
Qualification is like a massivedriver and when I think about
it it's a level of gamification.
So that gamification, whereas Isay like I'm not interested in
Tetris or Nintendos or differenttypes of like gamification of
(09:28):
other things, but actually whenI think about it I really am,
because the gamification of mydog sport I'm very interested in
, I'm all in, and whether that'squalifying for crafts, whether
whether it's qualifying forOlympia, whether it's qualifying
for any big event, really Ilove the gamification.
So I really love thegamification, um, and I love the
qualification.
So that's again anotherextrinsic or external, but a
(09:50):
different external to therosette form.
Like I could throw the rosettein the bin, like I'm not
interested.
I'm like quite like a photo.
But again that's like a publicperception thing, I imagine, and
a level of as much as I don'tthink I'm an ego-driven person,
I think there's a level of egothat's in there as much as I
don't necessarily I'm anego-driven person.
I think there's a level of egothat's in there, as much as I
don't necessarily always want toacknowledge that.
Linda Hughes (10:06):
But there's always in somebody.
There's always that to someextent, and to be able to say,
yes, it is ego-driven.
I mean, I compete in obedience.
Every dog I get in my mind isgoing to be a championship-level
dog and that's where I go and Ican get.
You know, I have to be carefulnot to be sniffy about the lower
(10:28):
classes, um, but but that's,that's my mindset and that's my
ego.
I am a championship handler,that's what I do, um, and that's
ego.
That's me getting some positivereinforcement and feeling good
about myself.
It.
It builds my self-esteem.
But there's nothing wrong withthese things, as long as we're
aware of them and we acknowledgethem and that we don't become
(10:50):
the competitor that stomps outthe ring because they didn't win
.
Lauren Langman (10:54):
It's such a brilliant topic and I really
love this topic because it'sI've had a few life-changing
events, I suppose that havechanged me from being that
competitor and I was thatcompetitor.
So if you picked me up 20 yearsago maybe, maybe 15 years ago I
was definitely the competitorthat could stomp out the ring in
a grump.
I was definitely the competitorthat could go home and Matt and
(11:15):
I would have a really horriblejourney home because we just
wouldn't talk and I would be insuch a grump, not disappointed
in yourself when you've done itwrong, or disappointed that your
dog hasn't necessarily got theskill you thought they had, or
disappointed that your traininghasn't held up, or disappointed
that the judge's course wasn'tthe course for you, or
disappointed that you drove allthat way.
It wasn't necessarily worth it.
And and the event that changedmy life, I think, with
(11:36):
competitive dog sports waslosing Matt's dog and we lost
him in a really tragic accidentcar accident and um, he was four
, he was championship mattmatt's hopes and dreams for dogs
and hopes and dreams for thecompeting and hopes and dreams
for all the energy he put in,like he'd done a great job.
And he was not only his hisfirst ever like bred dog for
(11:58):
agility, so we bought him foragility.
He was also a really talenteddog and so that minute of losing
him you know what it?
It gave me a huge realizationof what it was all about.
And actually I didn't reallycare so much about the dog sport
.
I cared that we'd lost ourfriend and I cared that, um, I
almost felt like I wish I'd donemore, just having him as as our
(12:21):
friend and thinking about hisfuture in dog sports, and we
always thought about how much hewas going to win or how much he
was going to do or.
But you actually got the momenttaken away from you and he was.
He went too soon and I thinkthat moment well, I know that
moment changed my perception ofdog sports, like innately, like
done, finished, like I loved mydog sport, but I love my dog
more and I love the experience.
(12:43):
And then I also, every time Isat on the start line with a dog
, I'd always think to myself younever know when this is your
last time and you don't knowwhat's going to change.
And because you never thinkyou're going to lose a
four-year-old dog and I've lostthree, I feel like, um, I lost
my Tokyo at four and Brave hadher accident at four.
I didn't lose her, but you kindof lose a lot of what your
hopes are and, um, we lost rightat four, and so for me, you
(13:05):
never know.
You never know when your lastopportunity is, and so I think
it's just changed my perceptionon the gratitude I feel for
being able to compete in a dogsport and the gratitude I feel
for being able to have my bestfriend and I in that like
privileged position, becauseit's a really privileged
position to stand there withyour um dog and to stand there
with a dog who wants to workwith you and wants to showcase
(13:26):
with you and want because theydon't opt in for this, no, it's
us that opt in for this, and soI actually feel very humbled by
my dogs and it's a differentfeeling to what I used to feel.
Yeah, um, so I don't know.
Yeah, I completely.
I was that competitor that wasgrumpy, right, and I'm not
anymore and I genuinely welldone for changing that.
Yeah, and I don't have any.
If I go wrong, I'm able tolaugh.
Yeah, it not always instantly.
(13:47):
Give me 20 seconds, sometimesit'll take me a second.
Or a coffee sometimes it'lltake me a pizza and sometimes
there's some level ofgratification with food.
Um, but I I can always turn itaround and I can always see the
good side in it and I the onlytime I struggle, you know, is if
a dog is injured.
If a dog is injured in the ring, so it comes out lame because
we're doing a fast dog sport,then I find that a little bit
(14:09):
harder.
I don't I'm not grumpy, I'mjust disappointed that my dog's
injured and I don't like that.
But I think that on the whole Ican normally come out smiling
and I smile when I go wrong andI smile when I go right and I
find the whole experienceenjoyable.
So that's a growth area, right,absolutely.
Linda Hughes (14:24):
A real, real growth area that's really making
great strides toward being morebalanced about what you do,
because, you're right, we don'task these dogs to do this for us
.
Lauren Langman (14:34):
Whatever it is we do with them and the other
thing that I work on with my dog, because in obedience we're so
close to each other and so haveto be so in tune with each other
in each other's space the wholetime on you.
Linda Hughes (14:51):
all the time that I have I do a lot of work in
getting my mindset right for thedog before I compete.
So that's doing everything inthe lead up to going into the
ring that gets me and the doginto the right space and in
training, making that absolutestrong connection with the dog
at an emotional level, becausethey are sentient beings and
(15:12):
they have feelings too and ifthey're tuned to us and we're
tuned to them, then therelationship and the competitive
relationship is much morepowerful.
Lauren Langman (15:25):
What you say there is really big as well,
because again, I can relate thisback to riot.
I owned right sister.
She was called tiki, and tikilived to a ripe old age of 16 17
she was.
She lived a very good age to avery good age and and when we
lost riot, I'd always comparedriot and tiki.
And tiki wasn't as good as riot, she wasn't as Riot, she wasn't
as mentally strong, she wasn'tas physically strong, she wasn't
(15:46):
as well built, she didn't havethe same heart, she was just
different.
She was a softer dog, muchsofter dog, and when we lost
Riot it allowed me to see her.
And as soon as I started to seeher because she was always not
as good, and suddenly I wasgrateful that she was always not
as good, and suddenly I wasgrateful that she was with us
because he wasn't, and suddenlythe pressure dropped as well,
(16:09):
because I realised that just theprivilege of him or her was
more important in thecompetition.
I think she went on to win sixchampionships and at the time I
didn't know she'd ever competebecause she was so nervous and
she was so sensitive.
And she won six championshipsand she was so sensitive and she
won six championships and wentto crafts, went to Olympia, went
to all the big events and shehad to jump way over a height
because our rules were differentthen.
(16:30):
And it's incredible to thinkthat that's what changed it.
And you're right, they're soemotionally connected Because I
permanently told myself and herthat we weren't good enough.
She wasn't good enough and Iwasn't happy with her and she
felt that and she knew that andshe knew she wasn't good enough
for me and I knew she wasn'twhat I wanted at the time.
(16:51):
And suddenly, when I changed thewhole perception of the whole
scenario and appreciated her forwho she was and stopped trying
to make her who she wasn't andstopped trying to force her a
square peg round hole situation.
And it's hard to admit that toyourself when you've actually
just not been a good dog trainerfor that dog and I'd never,
ever been unkind to her.
No, I was kind to her intraining, but actually I was
unkind in the sense I was tryingto force her to be something
(17:12):
she wasn't.
And when you look back on thatand you think to yourself like
I'm grateful for all the lessonsshe gave me and most of all,
and what good can come out ofsomething so awful.
That was it for me the abilityto see the dog for who she is
and not who she isn't well, Iyou know, I've got two
completely different dogs at themoment.
You couldn't have more opposite,like if you could combine those
two.
Yes, there is really theperfect dog, but actually they
(17:35):
are the perfect dog in their ownway they're, they're the two
ends of the spectrum and and the.
Linda Hughes (17:41):
The dilemma I get into and I have to work out
really hard, is I prefer one tothe other?
And the?
And the one that frustrates meI have to pay extra attention to
.
To connect with her so at home.
To connect with her, to havetime with her, because it's very
easy to push her aside and bewith the one that I like best
(18:03):
and and that's hard to admitsometimes, isn't it?
Lauren Langman (18:05):
and I think I like that, both of us at the
stage of our careers in dogs andand life really, that actually
there's been enough lifeexperience that we don't have to
try and pretend.
There's enough life experiencethat you can just be real and
say you know what I find youeasier to connect it to than you
.
So I actually have toacknowledge this.
Now I can hear a dog barkingdownstairs.
They've got a training classgoing on right now.
They've got quite a naughty butnice reactive dog who I know is
(18:27):
is is difficult in the groupand they're working with her and
the owner and I bet that that'shard for that owner to connect
with that dog right now.
I bet that's hard for thatowner to connect with that dog
at any time.
Actually, sometimes I thinkit's a hard dog to connect with
and the interesting point hereis, I think, for everybody, that
it's finding something thatthat you can connect with.
(18:48):
So what helps you to connectwith the dog that you find
harder to connect to?
Linda Hughes (18:53):
it's really important for me to spend time
sitting with her and actuallyconnecting with her.
So even when I'm on a trainingsession I will just sit down on
the grass with her and it's justher and me and try to really
make that real, valuableemotional connection.
And the more I build that, themore I can hold on to that when
(19:15):
she's doing things I don't like,so when she's noisy, she's
stressy, I can still hold on tothe real her, the the essence
that is her, that it is abeautiful, lovable dog who you
know just wants to work really,I just say, wants to please, and
it's just the excitement andthe arousal that kicks in, isn't
(19:35):
it?
Lauren Langman (19:35):
um?
And I think that's somethingthat's really um good to
acknowledge that there isfinding something good, because
when it gets tough, um, Iremember when someone told me
how to pick a puppy and theysaid always pick the puppy that
you naturally are drawn to,because when it gets really
tough, there's something thatdrew you there and you'll find
them easier to forgive, got tolike them, yeah, and and it is,
and I think it's differenthaving a.
I mean you tell us, um, I mean,this is this is definitely your
(19:58):
driven session here, becausethis is an expert area for you.
But there's something thatmakes it very addictive.
What we do right, somethingmakes it very, very addictive
and we want to keep going.
Like what's that about?
Linda Hughes (20:08):
like it's so addictive um well, success is
addictive, so it's it's a bitlike when we reward our dogs, we
we find it rewarding to achievethings, to, um, feel good about
ourselves because we'vemastered a task.
Lauren Langman (20:24):
But sometimes there is no success, or there's
a lack of success for a while,like how does that work?
And I think I know, but I wantto check with you.
Linda Hughes (20:31):
Well, that's where grit comes in in you as a human
being, because, I mean, I gotdrawn into my sport just because
I had an absolutely brilliantdog.
I wanted to do agility.
Lauren Langman (20:46):
I never got to do agility, um because, oh, it's
gonna be mine, I, I went.
Linda Hughes (20:52):
I went to an obedience club and never left
and went to the top in obedienceand here I am, so so that's um
but that that being in the cluband being part of that community
and being being um doingsomething I enjoy, something I'm
passionate about- because Ilove the people that don't win.
Lauren Langman (21:12):
What about the people that don't win?
So, what about the people thatdon't win?
Because there are enough peoplein sport that don't win.
Linda Hughes (21:18):
They get a lot out of the community.
Yeah, they get a lot out of thesense of supporting each other.
They get a lot out of theirrelationship with their dog.
So this thing about you knowyou always take the best dog
home there's a bit of me thatgoes really sometimes I look at
(21:39):
other dogs and think I'd quitelike to take that one home.
Yes, I'd rather like that one,that one won the ticket to go to
crufts.
Lauren Langman (21:45):
Wouldn't that be great yep, pop him in the car,
just hand it over.
Uh in he goes, spare cage umbut, but it's, it's that.
Linda Hughes (21:55):
It's that connection to the dog.
So you go into a dog sportbecause you love dogs.
There's never anybody in a dogsport who doesn't love their
dogs.
No, seriously.
I mean there may be people whoown dogs that don't love them,
just as pets, but certainly ifthey're in a dog sport that they
they love their dog.
Lauren Langman (22:11):
I couldn't think any any more highly of the dogs
I'm working with, because youhave a different relationship on
every level, don't you?
The relationship is very, veryspecial.
So what I'm thinking, then, ishow about and again, you
probably know more about thisthan I do when you've had a
series of not winning, like whatkeeps people in it Series of
not winning?
Linda Hughes (22:32):
Well, I've I've had um, five years since before
lockdown, I've I've beensidelined.
Yeah, I've been bringing onyoung dogs and it hasn't always
worked out.
Yeah, um, and I keep goingbecause, a I love my dogs and, b
I I want to be where, I want tobe that championship handler
(22:54):
again.
Lauren Langman (22:55):
I want to bring out the potential that I see in
the dogs that I've got andthat's going to be the feedback
I'll get, the positive feedbackI'll get when I can realise that
potential, because certainlyUlla's got a huge amount of
potential oh, amazing potentialand interesting that I think
mental game is going to bereally important for you and her
, and what I see for you and heris you're going to need to be
(23:17):
really robust for her and notreading too much into her.
You're actually gonna have tochill on it.
Linda Hughes (23:23):
my challenge is not getting disappointed.
Yeah, absolutely, because I'm abit of a perfectionist.
Yeah, then, when things are notgoing along to plan, then it's
very easy for me to bedisappointed, and the dogs pick
up on that, oh, and she'll pickup quicker than any dog Like
she'll pick.
Lauren Langman (23:39):
she's very emotionally intelligent dog.
She reads.
She'd be a brilliant sheep dogbecause she reads quick.
And if you think that the dogswere working, were bred to look
after the sheep in the sensethat they would read anything
from a distance and anythingfrom a group of I don't know a
thousand ewes and they could seeone that was lame to be able to
(24:00):
siphon it off.
Linda Hughes (24:01):
Amazing work, I had an experience when I was
with my trainer.
We do sendaways, which is wherewe the dog goes from us to a
mark in the distance.
I was doing sendaways and whenwe're training, I do a thing
called we call loading, which isbetween the legs, and it's a
bit like a greyhound.
Yeah, so like restraint, yeah,yeah.
So I'm restraining andrestraining and restraining and
(24:24):
winding up and I have to bendover to do this and um.
So I let her go and I stood upand she stopped halfway and
looked around at me.
My trainer said to me but youmoved and I went, I didn't move,
I didn't move, thinking, Ididn't move my feet, but you
actually just moved your body.
I just moved my body and sheknew, although she was going
(24:45):
away, from me?
Lauren Langman (24:46):
Yeah, because she wasn't looking, but she
still felt the energy.
And I remember being very youngI was probably, probably I got
Bella when I was 14 or 15.
I was young and I remember withthat Bella was my first border
collie and I remember sitting ina vehicle we're having fish and
chips, the Elverton moors, nearthe big rock, and I remember
watching these sheep suddenlymoving from one spot to another
(25:08):
and there she was in the car,laser, targeting them and moving
them with her eyes like they'reimpactful, those dogs, those
dogs that are emotionallyintelligent or energetically
intelligent, and I truly believethat.
Now, thinking about dog sportsand why people do it, how people
do it, um, the reasons they doit, the people around them that
(25:29):
do it, what else can you tell us, linda?
Linda Hughes (25:31):
well, I've been in a group this this week here
having a lovely, lovely timewith people who've come from all
over the world because theylove dogs and they also love
absolute dogs.
Um, and they just watching them, their, their faces light up
their the delight in the group,the celebrations that have gone
(25:52):
on in the group when people haveachieved things with their dogs
, and that joy is what keepspeople infectious.
Lauren Langman (26:00):
Now what you say there is so so true and so so
valuable and so so what I loveabout dog sports.
But often at the top of dogsports, someone's back and like
that.
What's that like so at the topof dog?
Linda Hughes (26:13):
sports.
Yeah, what's that like, what'sthat like?
So that's a topic of.
Yeah, what I call unhealthycompetitiveness comes in.
So there are people who want towin at all costs.
There are people who are, whodo what really human beings do
in all walks of life and in allareas, which is become tribal,
(26:34):
become cliquey.
So there's the ins and the outs, there's the them and the us.
They form alliances, which usedto be my village against your
village.
So we get the alliances formed,so it's us against them.
And all that starts coming atthe top end of the sport,
(26:56):
because the stakes are higher somuch higher.
Lauren Langman (27:00):
It's like an elitism that's at that space and
I I love my dog sport and atthe same time there's parts of
it I think I don't want toassociate with that at all, like
that's so not what I want toassociate with.
It feels very much like achildhood gang or a childhood
like playground group of of kidsand I sometimes listen or think
that is so not where my headspace is and I feel like in one
part of my life I'm a grown-upand another part I'm like I do
(27:23):
feel like I'm in a playgroundwell, I'm, you know, being a
very sensitive soul.
Linda Hughes (27:27):
I've struggled hugely with that recently and
felt really sort of on theoutside and I've had to really
work on focusing on why I'mdoing it and what I'm going to
do to achieve what I want,regardless of all the peripheral
nonsense that goes on.
(27:48):
And that's about beingconfident in myself and walking
my own path and staying awayfrom that negative energy yeah,
being in your own lane.
Lauren Langman (27:57):
I've got an example of that negative energy.
I took a dog to Olympia about10 years ago, nine years ago,
and a friend of mine or a personI knew, not so much a friend
but someone I knew, anacquaintance she had a sister,
she had a sibling of my dog andI remember her saying, and I
remember Matt saying to me donot, whatever you do, buy into
that.
Like don't buy into that,because you'll have lots of
negative things to say.
(28:17):
And she was just all she coulddo is keep saying negative
things about the dog, negativethings about the course,
negative things.
And matt actually got hold ofme and moved me.
He was like do not stand there,get over somewhere else,
because that is infectious.
Anyway, I won that round and Iwon the afternoon round, I won
the overall day, probably one ofthe highlights of my life to
win overall.
I've had a few of thoseopportunities, which has been
great classics done the same forme.
(28:38):
Um, so has blink multi-times,which is really lovely to have
those big winning experiences.
They're quite specialexperiences, um, but what I
would definitely say and I Ireally appreciate this is the
effect of negative energy aroundyou, because it's big, isn't it
?
It is big, it is it is big andit's real.
Linda Hughes (28:56):
You know, we can sort of sort of say oh no, no,
everybody's in it to be friendlyand and there is friendliness
at some level, um, but there isa lot of negative energy and um,
and that gets expressed at thenearer the top you get and what
do you think that's about?
Lauren Langman (29:11):
like there are, there seem to be some people in
there that seem to attract moreof it or seem to want to be part
of it, or seem to create it.
I'm not sure what that's about.
What's that about dog sportscompetitiveness?
Where is all that from?
Because that's the part I wouldprefer not to have.
Linda Hughes (29:25):
You have people come in that have that innate
tendency to be over-competitiveand tendency to be over
competitive and certainly um,there are people in obedience
who want to win everything andwin all the um subsidiary prizes
that might be going and clearup for the weekend, and I'm sure
that they um, because you don'tneed to win everything to
(29:45):
qualify.
You know my world, I qualifyand I move on.
Lauren Langman (29:49):
Oh, me too I qualify and then I get myself a
prosecco, I grab some cheese,maybe some champagne, and we go
home.
Linda Hughes (29:56):
I don't, I don't need any more red cards to
decorate my downstairs toiletthank you very much.
Toilet paper yes I don't needany more.
But there are people who do.
Yeah, there are people whoclean up.
Um that creates negative energywrapped for them with other
people, yeah.
So then you get a you knowdivision starting, um, but the
(30:17):
near the prize becomes moreimportant.
The prize of the championship,the prize of going to cross or
whatever the prize is, becomesso important that people start
to behave in ways that are notvery attractive, and then also
in obedience particularly, wehave the style issue.
Lauren Langman (30:36):
So that's the way dogs are trained that's a
hard one as well, isn't it?
Because it's so um, it's opento it, it's, it's.
It is subjective.
Linda Hughes (30:44):
Yes yeah, and, and they're just a different ways
that people choose to train dogsand different styles in which
dogs work, and that's fine, youknow.
Let everybody do their ownthing is what I say.
But I know who might like mydog and who might not like my
dog Because of the style,because of the style.
Lauren Langman (31:02):
And so I suppose as a bit of a roundup here,
linda, because I think we couldprobably talk mental game and
why people compete for a long,long time, but would you have
any tips for people who are incompetitive dog sports, going
forwards and healthy things thatmaybe they can either do or
think about or know or just evenhave the awareness of going
forwards?
Linda Hughes (31:21):
so number one is prioritize your dog, so build
the relationship with your dog,and when you go to a show or go
to compete, it's about you andyour dog, not about you and
anybody else.
So that's number one.
Secondly, get your ownheadspace right, so don't worry
about what other people aredoing thinking when you go in
(31:44):
the ring, this is the one thingthat you get in a beat.
It's a lot.
Oh, people might be watching me.
Actually, people are notwatching you there, because
they're all more interested intheir own world than they are in
yours.
You know you're in the ring forthree minutes.
Who's going to be bothered?
Not many people.
So just don't worry about whatother people are thinking,
(32:05):
because they're usually thinkingabout what they're going to
have for their lunch.
Lauren Langman (32:08):
And I love the idea of control the controllable
.
You just can't.
You can't actually change whatthey're thinking anyway, even if
you wanted to right, it'salmost like you frustrate
yourself, yeah, and you justwind yourself up and make
yourself more anxious.
Linda Hughes (32:22):
Just don't worry about it.
And then the other one, withobedience that I stress with
people a lot is whatever happensin the ring, you are the judge
of whether that was good, bad orindifferent.
Not the judge of whether thatwas good, bad or indifferent.
Not the judge Because, unlikeagility, where you've either won
it or not won it or whatever,or you've knocked a pole down or
you haven't, there is asubjective element to obedience
(32:44):
which means that the judge willscore you.
Lauren Langman (32:50):
And that might not be the score that you would
have liked to have givenyourself.
Linda Hughes (32:53):
Oh, I'd definitely be giving myself 10 out of 10.
That's right.
But so you go in and you, youare pleased with what your dog's
achieved.
And if the dog has achieved anddelivered on what the way
they've been trained and againsthow you've trained them, then
be pleased with that, regardlessof where you come.
Lauren Langman (33:07):
I think it's brilliant.
And I have one to add herewhich I think you'll you'll like
, and, um, I've won at Cruftsand I've had what I would call a
slightly dodgy call on a on aseesaw and I felt, oh, I got
away with that one.
It was high, it wasn't probablymy criteria.
She pushed me, I went with whatshe gave me, because you're in
the middle of Crufts, she can'tstop her and put her back and
(33:27):
the judge didn't mark me.
So you go with what you get,like you go with it.
That's what you were given andthat's the hand you were dealt.
And I think a lot of peoplewould really be hard on
themselves after that.
And I feel that whether you winor you lose, um, you win some,
you lose some, like I've.
I've lost when I felt I've gotthe criteria and the judge
hasn't seen it, and that's oursubjective element.
(33:48):
You're going as a human, not arobot, and I've won when I
thought maybe I should have beencalled on something, even at
the biggest height, like biggestarena.
I've lost in the biggest arenasand I've won in the biggest
arenas and I really believe youwin some, you lose some.
You do, and I feel like youhave to have a good attitude to
that, and I feel like the moreyou try and get angry, upset,
disappointed or hold on to it,that's not very healthy, and so
(34:10):
actually being able to, Isuppose, let it go and being
able to realize that's just partof being in dog sport or a
competitive sport where youcan't control those things you
can't control it.
Linda Hughes (34:20):
Yeah, so I mean I've I've had situations where
I've done what I thought was astonking round with my young dog
.
I don't look at the scoresalways because we do scent later
on and I don't want to, I don'twant to give the dog any
anxiety about scent because I'mleading the class or anything,
so I don't look.
I went back and I did scent andI saw he's.
He's done really well.
He was in, he was in the noviceclass and I went to the
(34:44):
scoreboard and to have a look atmy score.
I was nowhere near any rosettewhatsoever and it was like oh,
okay, then Didn't quite readthat one.
Lauren Langman (34:55):
That's so interesting, isn't it?
Isn't it interesting really,isn't that fascinating?
I mean, the thing for us isthat ultimately, we're
privileged.
We love our dogs.
I couldn't imagine doinganything more fun.
And Matt often says to meyou're so lucky, you've got such
passion for it.
Like you've got passion, you'vegot something.
You're so lucky, you've gotsuch passion for it.
Like you've got passion, you'vegot something you're really
passionate about is I wish I hadsomething I was that passionate
(35:16):
about, and I think that issomething high five, I'm very,
very lucky, because it gets youout of bed in the morning.
Well, I I had lost my mojo.
Linda Hughes (35:20):
I mean in competing, I've really lost my
mojo, and it's only in the lastyear that I've just got it back
again, and now we're on track ontarget, on target.
Lauren Langman (35:30):
So with that mind, some of my goals I'm going
to share, because the more Ishare them, the more I know I
can help to realise them.
So some of my goals I have got.
Wild at Crufts.
She is a novice dog at Crufts.
Wild is different to Skittle.
I naturally find myself moredrawn to a dog like Skittle,
who's very, very able and very,very talented.
(35:51):
With Wild you have to work itdifferently.
She's not as easy to sort of umhave working and she's not
physically as capable either.
And I find that quite hard whena dog some dogs are more
physically capable than othersfuller versus senzi and and wild
versus skittle, and skittlebeing the more of the capable
one really.
But I feel like we can go clearin that environment.
(36:12):
I can't control what the otherdogs do, but I want to go clear
in that environment.
So she's qualified for crafts.
She's going to crafts in March.
I think that's quite excitingand let's see what she's got
really.
And then Skittle I can't waitto qualify her for crafts,
qualify her for Olympia, which Ithink will be a brilliant
environment for her because it'sa big, open course environment.
She's a fast little snake andthen get her to crafts in 2026
(36:33):
because she can go in the novicein 2026 and then championship
in 2027.
So, um, I think they'll will bedrinking champagne is my goal,
linda.
What are your goals, okay?
Linda Hughes (36:43):
so I've always been very reluctant to set goals
, but I have now.
So um ulla, who's the one withthe potential, huge potential.
She hasn't even competed yet,well, she hasn't even been
entered, so she'll start innovice, but my goal is she'll be
at Crufts in 2027.
(37:03):
Yes, high five.
Lauren Langman (37:05):
You're going to get there in 2027.
And we know that that is stilla push.
It is a push Because there's alot for an obedience dog to do
to be able to get there.
It's not like you're going in ababy dog class, you're going in
a championship level.
And how about senzi?
What sort of goals have you got?
Linda Hughes (37:20):
so I at the moment .
My goal is to get her into thering at the start of this season
, um and for her to complete around without making any noise
brilliant.
Lauren Langman (37:31):
That's it.
So to complete, so, somethingso and again, different dogs,
different horses.
For her, actually, the easierthe round, or the round that
doesn't wind her so much is abetter round.
You don't want to give her around where she gets frustrated.
No, whereas with Ulla, we needto challenge her enough and not
over face her and at the sametime, put her in a position
where she can get to where weneed to get her to and keep her
(37:51):
confident.
So I think it's really exciting.
It's really really exciting,yes, exciting times ahead, that
is, and it's lovely, it givespurpose, it gives huge purpose.
And the other thing, though,that even when we set goals,
actually sometimes we might needto reassess and check in.
And I know that you've got thearena here, you've got all of
our support and and we'redefinitely behind you, so I'm
(38:11):
excited.
I'm excited both all girls atcruft.
So this episode, we've covered alot.
We've covered some mindset,we've covered why we compete and
what even that genetic makeupmight be, or where did that even
come from?
And I certainly think mine camefrom probably a little bit of
hardship and maybe a little bitof struggle and a little bit of
wanting something that we didn'thave, and I think the
(38:32):
interesting thing is thatthere's lots we can control
around mindset.
There's lots we can controlaround competitiveness, and
there's certainly people wemight want to align with and
there's certainly people wemight not want to align with,
and actually we can control that.
Right, linda, absolutely right.
I'm excited.
I'm excited for the future.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
That was this episode of theSex and Squirrel podcast.
I hope you join me for the nextepisode and remember stay sexy.
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