May 12, 2025 • 45 mins
Navigating the shed industry in a post-pandemic world requires wisdom, strategy, and strong partnerships. In this revealing conversation, Jared Ledford welcomes Sheds Direct's dynamic duo – JW Rucker (District Sales Manager) and Marc Church (Business Development Director) – who bring decades of industry expertise and infectious enthusiasm to the discussion.
The conversation dives deep into how COVID fundamentally transformed the shed business, creating what Marc describes as a shift from being shed sellers to mere "order takers" during the pandemic boom. As JW explains, "You could be bad at selling sheds and have a line out your door in 2020 or 2021." Now, as the market normalizes, quality and service have reemerged as crucial differentiators.
At the heart of their discussion is the "price, quality, and service triangle" – the industry principle that no manufacturer can truly excel in all three areas. This challenging reality forces strategic decisions about identity and market positioning. What's fascinating is that despite conventional wisdom suggesting price drives purchasing decisions, Marc reveals their value line represents just 10-15% of total sales, proving customers ultimately seek quality and value over rock-bottom pricing.
For dealers, the insights shared might fundamentally change how you approach manufacturer partnerships. The team candidly discusses how choosing partners solely on price often leads to spending countless hours addressing quality issues rather than selling more sheds. As Jared laments from experience, "We're still getting negative reviews from other manufacturers just now, and it makes us look bad."
Whether you're a manufacturer, dealer, or industry supplier, this conversation provides critical market intelligence as we navigate 2025. The early winter challenges, the promising spring momentum, and the industry's overall trajectory offer valuable perspective for anyone invested in the portable building space. Their closing message resonates clearly: success lies not in racing to the bottom, but in delivering quality products that make customers proud and keep referrals flowing.
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Studio Sponsor: J Money LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jared (00:33):
Hey guys, what's up.
This is Jared and this is theSteel Kings podcast.
Eric is on an assignment withthe pole barn crew today, so
it's me rocking solo, but I'mnot coming alone today.
I've got a couple of specialguests in the studio with me
today.
Um, quick shout out to the teamover at J money.
If you are a contractor, ametal building dealer, shed
(00:54):
dealer, really any kind of homeimprovement at all the team over
at J money can get you takencare of on your financing needs.
Contact Joel, Katy, the teamover at J Money.
They will be happy to help youwith your financing needs.
Quick shout out and plug to ourpodfather, Shannon over at the
Shed Geek podcast.
Check his show out onWednesdays.
He has had some special guestshere recently and we're getting
(01:16):
into some fun stuff there onWednesdays as well.
The guys over at Shed GeekMarketing, Dylan and his team,
are doing a great job.
If you are metal buildingdealer, shed dealer really any
anybody who's using marketing ifyou're on social media google
check out the team over at shedgeek marketing.
They're happy to get you, uh,started down the track to
success without further ado.
(01:37):
You guys have heard me talkabout.
Now we're on episode 9, 10,something like that.
For the last couple months youguys have gotten to know me,
gotten to know Eric a little bit.
You all know that we slingsheds in metal buildings
nationwide.
On the metal building sidewe're getting into tri-state
coverage with our wood sheds.
But you know you've heard ustalk about some of the struggles
(01:58):
we've had over the years tofind the right partner when it
comes to wood sheds.
And let me tell you somethingSheds Direct has been great to
us.
You guys have heard us rep themover the last couple of months.
What I'm really excited abouttoday is I get to have them in
the studio with me.
A couple of guys who have reallyone guy who's been an advocate
(02:19):
for Dayton Barns for a long timewas riding with us for a short
time as well really helped usstart and grow this business and
took his talents over to ShedsDirect.
And let me tell you somethingvery, very, very seldom in your
life do you meet somebody thatyou have an immediate connection
with.
A little over a year ago, a guystepped into our shop that
(02:42):
really changed the way that Ithought about slinging wood
sheds.
I'm going to introduce you guysto JW Rucker.
He's the district sales managerfor Sheds Direct, and I'm also
going to introduce you to thebusiness development director
for Sheds Direct, Marc Church,and let me tell you something
Marc is a very special guy.
Very, very seldom do you meetsomebody that has his talent and
(03:06):
his love for the industry.
He and I had an immediateconnection, and the joke that we
always ask each other is howmany people have you met with my
energy level and how manypeople have I met with Marc's?
And the answer that I alwaysgive Marc is I have never met
anybody who loves slinging shedslike Marc Church.
So let me tell you something,guys I am super pumped up and
(03:27):
excited to bring these guys intothe studio.
These two guys are from ShedsDirect and let me tell you
something we are proud and happyto be a Sheds Direct dealer.
Without further ado, JW, Marc,you guys are here in the studio
with the Steel Kings, with Jared.
What's up?
How's it going?
What's up, Jared?
How are you today?
Buddy, I am, uh, I am blessedbeyond my uh, my comprehension
(03:52):
this morning.
I can tell you we ran into sometechnical difficulties.
I'll give you a little peekbehind the curtain.
Uh, these guys were sittingthere laughing at me because I
went through the whole spiel.
I did the, I did theadvertising, I did the, I did
hype up, and they're justsitting there thinking Jared
your microphone's off, brother.
So we're finally in the studio,we're finally here.
Marc (04:12):
So, man, I'm better than I deserve this morning, how's
that I was texting JW like do Isupposed to be able to hear him?
Does he supposed to be able tohear me?
How does this usually work?
Honestly, man, I'm superexcited to be here.
I feel like I'm on Fox Newsright now with the whole podcast
thing.
(04:32):
I'm super excited.
While I travel, I listen topodcasts quite often.
I've been listening to theSteel Kings podcast here
probably over the last sixmonths.
Shannon doesn't know this, butI've definitely been a shed geek
podcaster as well, so superexcited to finally be on one of
these and and be able to toanswer questions and talk to you
(04:55):
guys about Sheds Direct.
Yeah, man.
Jared (04:58):
Yeah, it's, this is something.
So, I was telling at thebeginning, you came to me about
a year ago and this is Marc.
So, Marc walks in the door andI don't know Marc from anybody
else.
He's a complete stranger to meand I mean you can already hear
it in his voice.
He, he's got a uniqueness towho he is and, man, he sold me
(05:18):
that second.
I was ready to.
I mean, you'd have to, you'dhave to tell us Marc, but I mean
I was ready to sign up thatsecond.
Now, at the time the ironic partis JW was working with us and
had been for a while and uh, youknow it was.
It's been a tumultuous, to saythe least, stead partnerships
(05:39):
over the years.
We have a rule here we don'ttalk bad about anybody, and not
that those relationships werebad, but you know when the
relationship's good, when it'sgood right, you know how good
the grass can be when it's green.
So, I can tell you we've beenrepping you guys for the last
few months and we couldn't behappier with what we've got so
far.
(05:59):
So first of all, thank you fromthe Dayton Barns team and Steel
Kings.
But tell us a little bit aboutyourselves, guys.
I mean, that's usually what wedo here.
First is we introduce and tellus a little bit about yourselves
and your product and kind of gofrom there.
JW (06:14):
JW, you want to go first?
Yeah, I'll take the lead.
So, my name is JW Rucker.
I have been blessed to be inthe shed industry since I was 16
years old.
So, I got linked up with EricOlson, who obviously isn't here
today.
But awesome man, we linked up.
He asked me to help him out ofthe shed lot one day and it was
a rainy day, horrible weatherday.
(06:35):
I was 16 years old Somehow.
I sold seven sheds that day andhad to call Eric for every
single one of them and ask himfor help on how to do it.
So, I mean, it's been a journeyever since then.
I was so thankful that he gaveme that opportunity.
We were able to kind of growthis business.
I remember meeting Jared.
Jared came along and really putgas in our engine to continue
to grow the business and thenlast year I made the transition
(07:00):
over to the manufacturing sideof things and took a role here
at Sheds Direct and have beensuper happy since, super
thankful to work at the team atSheds Direct.
We are proud to service manystates in the Mid-Atlantic and
then over in the Midwest.
So, I'm the district salesmanager for our Ohio, Indiana
and Michigan districts and it'sjust been an exciting
(07:20):
opportunity and through it all Istill got to keep my
relationship with Eric and Jaredand the crew at Dayton Barns
and be able to help them, youknow, meet their shed needs,
sell sheds and be successful.
So super thankful for beinghere today.
Thanks for having us on, jerry.
Yeah, for sure, man.
Marc (07:35):
Yeah, what's up guys.
My name is Marc Church.
I've been with Sheds Directsince 2018.
A funny fact about me I amclean shaven today, but at one
time in my life, my beard was aslong as Jared's.
So, I decided to take asabbatical and move to Wyoming
and live in the mountains of theBridger Tetons for about a year
(07:58):
, until I just got too cold andsaid, man, I've got to get back
south.
My bloodline was not designedfor five feet of snow.
So, at that time, Jared, I hadthat beard going.
But no, I started with SDI inAugust 2018.
Previously, I was with UnitedParcel Service in their sales
management teams for about 12years, and I have three children
(08:22):
, a wife.
At that time, I was travelingto multiple states all over the
place, and so I was also.
One of my hobbies is coachingball.
I love to coach baseball youthbaseball and so I was on a
baseball field and our founder Iwas actually coaching his son
at the time.
We strike up a conversation andI said man, you can't make any
money selling sheds, what areyou talking about?
(08:44):
And so he said, hey, come tothe office, let's sit down and
talk about it.
So, from there, 2018, shedsDirect was definitely a much
different entity at that timeFrom transitioning through COVID
.
Now post-COVID, we'vedefinitely been highly blessed
(09:08):
and super excited about thefuture and things to come,
especially about ourpartnerships with individuals
such as Dayton Barns, such asJared and his team, and really
that collaboration of technologyand really the desire to sling
sheds is what I say, and so justsuper excited about the future
for sure.
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Jared (10:55):
So, I'm gonna jump right in here.
I want to hear what you guysare seeing, market wise, right.
So, industry trends headinginto 2025 sales season Is there
anything that you guys can sharewith a broad audience?
Right, we talked tomanufacturers, other
manufacturers, we talked todealers, we talked to suppliers.
(11:17):
We've got a little bit ofeverybody in the pool here of
the audience of the Steel Kingspodcast.
What are you guys seeing?
I mean, I know, from ourperspective, you know we're
seeing the businesses downpodcast.
What are you guys seeing?
I mean, I know, from ourperspective, we're seeing the
businesses down a little bitthis year.
Right, and we have to dosomething creative.
Dayton Barns is obviously we'rea national kind of a
(11:38):
conglomerate at this point formetal buildings.
What we're trying to do iswe're trying to really find a
niche with our wood buildings.
We've, you know, over the lastcouple of years, we really
peaked, probably in 2021, 2022,with our wood sales and then
struggled with our supplier atthat time and then, really, when
we got with you guys last year,we got kind of at the tail end
(11:59):
of the season.
We didn't get our supply untilmid-summer and we had a great
fall and we're having a reallystrong start to our year, but I
think there's a lot of peopleout there listening to the
podcast now that are like man,do I want to sell sheds anymore?
Right, you know, what are youguys seeing?
You know, I think it's rightnow.
It's where does Sheds Direct?
(12:20):
See the industry going?
Is it technological, is it?
What do we need to do as awhole?
See the industry going?
Marc (12:28):
Is it technological?
What do we need to do as awhole, as an industry?
JW, you want to take this, youwant me to take it, you take it,
you take it.
I'll jump in.
So, first off, I would say thisCOVID was a blessing in the shed
industry for many reasons.
Also, with COVID, it broughttremendous challenge.
When you look at just thepressure of supply chain, the
(12:50):
pressure of productiondeliveries, just system overload
, no one has ever managed in ourgeneration, no one has ever
managed an organization in anyindustry during a pandemic and
nobody has ever managed one postpandemic.
Okay, so the first thing Iwould, I would tell you, is
(13:11):
coming out of coming out ofCOVID.
Now, you know, 2023 really wasthe year we came out of COVID.
It was a struggle for, for manyreasons, every dealer that I
spoke to, sdi or non-SDI, it wasin that downturn Every finance
company, rto company, anypartner at that time that was in
(13:34):
the shed industry I would haveweekly, monthly conversations
with.
It was a struggle for everyoneand really you had to pivot
daily to really stay in front ofthe ebbs and flows of the
industry Coming into 2024, weare really, really excited,
mainly because our mindset inthe fourth quarter of 2020, it
(13:55):
really or my fault coming into2025, we're really excited.
Our mindset in the fall of 2024was hey, you know what?
We're not sure what 2025 isgoing to do.
We're not sure what 2026 isgoing to do.
We're not sure what tomorrow isgoing to do.
Okay, but at the end of the day, we're going to really develop
a strategy and try to implementthat.
(14:19):
So far, the biggest challengethat we have seen coming into
2025 is really the weathersituation, something that we
could never predict.
Some of our areas Michigan,Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New
York saw tremendous amounts ofcold weather, tremendous amounts
of snow.
We have a dealer up near theCleveland market and so I called
(14:42):
him and he had a tremendousNovember, a tremendous December
and January.
Man just was not really in thepicture and I called him.
I said what happened, what'sgoing on?
He said I haven't seen my lotin 30 days.
He said I've got two feet ofsnow on the pavement right now.
So, you know, first off, thatsituation.
Even down in the South, we sawmore cold weather and snow than
(15:06):
we have in many, many years.
Our dealers in the easternstrand of South Carolina, North
Carolina, all the way up intoVirginia they were getting snow
Places at the beach four to five, six inches of snow.
So, number one, the winter wasa struggle was a struggle.
What we have seen since then isa very, very strong end of
(15:30):
February, March and April andreally building that momentum
going into 2025.
We started to see that with ourdealers in the South Carolina,
Oklahoma.
Virginia really started to seethat towards probably that last
week of Virginia into March, andnow we're seeing this momentum
(15:51):
shift in April with our dealersin Ohio, Indiana, Michigan,
Pennsylvania, New York.
So you know, from an industrystandpoint, I do keep in touch
with multiple builders, keep intouch with multiple competitive
dealers standpoint, I do keep intouch with multiple builders,
keep in touch with multiplecompetitive dealers and so far,
I think that we wereanticipating another struggle
(16:11):
and not saying that, hey, it'sall roses.
But I do believe that theindustry as a whole, on the shed
side, is really excited aboutwhat's to come throughout 2025,
into 2026 and definitely in thefuture.
So, starting to see thatmomentum ramp, starting to see
people get excited about, like Isay, coming in early and
(16:33):
staying late, slinging sheds,calling old leads, whatever it
is, you know, people are reallystarting to get excited again
and feel like the industry isstarting to come back very, very
aggressively.
Jared (16:46):
Yeah, I see.
JW (16:47):
I'll second that, if you don't mind.
The biggest difference thatI've seen 23 and 24 were
challenging post-COVID.
As Marc said, in 2020, 2021,2022, dealers were used to
having a line out their door.
In all seriousness, whetherthey were a good dealer or what,
what you know, a bad dealerlike you could be bad at selling
(17:08):
sheds and have a line out yourdoor in 2020 or in 2021, 23 and
24, that just wasn't the caseand you had to get creative.
You had to kind of figure outhow to advertise online.
You had to figure out and havea sales pitch, because it wasn't
people coming with pockets fullof money trying to spend it, it
was you were.
You were fighting to earnbusiness and you kind of had to
adapt and learn that.
(17:28):
So far in 2025, I'll echo Marcthough the winter was the most
challenging.
I've lived in Ohio for seven oreight years now.
This was the most challengingwinter that I can remember in
terms of just we got 16 inchesof snow one day and seven days
later we got six more on top ofit, in January, you know and
just record cold temperatures,and it was definitely a
(17:49):
challenge.
But I think there's some moreexcitement.
I talk to my entire team prettymuch every day of dealers and
they're all excited man, they'vegot, they're starting to get
some lines out their door.
Really that last week ofFebruary just kind of busted
loose, and February, march andApril have been a blessing so
far.
Jared (18:07):
Yeah, I think we, coming off of 24, I think we had a
couple of different things right.
We had there's always theuncertainty in the political
climate when there's an electiongoing on.
I think there's a lot of thingsthat we're heading.
2024 was just a rough yearacross the board, I think, for
portable building dealers, metalbuilding dealers.
I know we talked about it, wetalked about it at length.
(18:28):
I think the one thing as wetransition into, I want to talk
a little bit about and JW refersto this price, quality and
service triangle.
We'll talk a little bit aboutthat.
But I think, from a dealerperspective somebody who's been
on the opposite side, if you'resitting there thinking, you know
, well, I'm not excited.
(18:48):
These guys sound excited.
I'm a dealer who's coming offof a really strong 23.
And you know JW can attest tothis we had a really, really,
really good relationship withour manufacturer at that time
(19:09):
and if you would have asked mein January of 24, if I was
interested in changing shedmanufacturers, I would have told
you there wasn't a snowball'schance.
I would have told you therewasn't a snowball's chance, zero
percent going to happen.
But two or three months goes byand promises made were promises
not kept Right and if you'resitting back and you're dealing
with something like that, reallytake it, really take a hard
(19:32):
look.
Because the way the JW and Marcare right, the way the market
was during COVID and post-COVIDthere were so many more
manufacturers, there were somany more buildings to go around
, the building materials werecheaper than they are right now.
A lot of that stuff has changedand if you're a dealer and you
don't know, I'm telling youthese guys will back me up.
(19:53):
The market has changedtremendously for a manufacturer
over the last couple of yearsand that, from a dealer
perspective, is always hard tounderstand.
It's hard to sit back whenyou're used to getting inventory
on a regular basis and all of asudden you're not getting
inventory as regularly as youwere.
Well, that's because buildingmaterials are more expensive.
(20:14):
That's because it's harder toproduce a shed right now than it
was two or three years ago, notto mention municipalities we
all all know are getting harderto deal with.
Sheds are becoming somethingthat needs to be permitted
heavily across the board.
You might be in a situationwhere you're looking for
site-specific blueprints on awood shed.
(20:34):
We had one last year here inChampaign County, Ohio.
I had to get site-specificblueprints and you know all
these different things for ashed and I've never had to do
that before, never had to havefoundation stuff, never had to
care about that stuff.
You know here where I'm at inChampaign County you have to
have a 36-inch frost footer forany wood shed over 200 square
(20:57):
feet.
Inch frost footer for any woodshed over 200 square feet.
Figure that out Got to beanchored to a 36 inch frost
footer, not a 32 inch.
36 inch now because the code'schanged.
So I mean you're asking acustomer to spend thousands of
dollars more than the price of ashed just to get a shed here in
Champaign County.
So, with all of that said, Iwant to talk about that price,
(21:20):
quality and service trianglewith you guys.
I want to talk about what'simportant to a dealer
perspective, because I feel likeright now I have the best shed.
I have certainly top-notchservice.
I can't think of a time we'vehad any kind of customer service
issue.
Knock on wood.
I can't think of a time we'vehad any kind of customer service
(21:43):
issue knock on wood and thepricing is fair.
JW (21:50):
JW, explain that to me.
Yeah, that's really your baby.
Yeah, this is something that wetalk about a lot internally.
Try to balance it.
It's, as Jared said, the price,quality and service triangle.
Call it whatever you want.
That's kind of what it is.
Price is pretty straightforward.
Obviously, that's the price,quality and service triangle.
Call it whatever you want.
That's kind of what it is.
Price is pretty straightforward.
Obviously, that's the price ofthe product you're selling.
Quality is obviouslystraightforward.
That's how good is the productyou're selling.
You know what materials are youusing.
Are the rafters 48-inch?
Are they 16-inch?
(22:10):
You know somewhere in between.
What are the wall studs, youknow, and how far your joy is
spaced and things of that nature.
And then service kind ofencompasses a wide array.
It's you know what systems andprocesses do you have.
It's how fast is your lead time?
That's big for a customer andobviously what kind of customer
and dealer support that you haveon the back end of your
(22:30):
organization.
And it's a challenge to find abalance between those three
because you really can't be thebest at all three.
It's impossible.
Can you have bits and pieces ofall three?
Definitely.
But that's finding that balanceand kind of limboing to figure
out, hey, what is more importantin the market right now.
But even more so, what is ouridentity as an organization.
(22:52):
And we've been having a lot ofinternal conversations about
that recently.
And I think if you go backbefore COVID in the shed
industry and you talk to everybig manufacturer, they would all
tell you they had an identity.
You know, hey, we prideourselves on this.
When COVID happened and all ofa sudden the industry just blew
(23:12):
up, it was you could put 100buildings on a $300,000 dealer's
lot because you had the cash todo it.
You could have whatever systemsyou needed to have, or lack
thereof, because sheds werestill selling.
You could be as good quality oras bad quality as you wanted to
be, because people were stillbuying it.
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JW (25:07):
And I think in the midst of that we kind of had a bit of an
identity crisis for lack of abetter term in the industry of
all of a sudden, all of themanufacturers are trying to be
the best at price, the best atquality and the best at service,
and it's just never attainable.
And we're seeing Jared's heardme say a lot the cream starts to
(25:27):
rise to the top.
I think it did so a little bitin 24.
It's going to continue to do soin 25.
People who are stillaggressively fighting and trying
to be the best at all three arenot going to survive.
And that's just the fact of thematter.
And this is more on amanufacturer side of things.
But also, this is important fordealers to understand If you're
dealer discounting everybuilding over half your
(25:50):
commission just to be the bestprice, you're devaluing what
you're bringing to the table andwhat you're offering, and I
think that's just a challenge.
So, we've really been trying tofind the happy medium of it.
Sheds Direct.
We know we build one of thebest sheds on the market and
we're proud of that 16 inch oncenter.
You know we're proud of ourhurricane ties and some of the
other products that we offer,and we're blessed to be able to
(26:12):
do that and provide those we tryto market at an aggressive
price.
And we say Marc is the man onthe road.
He's constantly going out andvisiting dealers, talking with
manufacturers, not even likebehind people's backs, he just
walks in and introduces himselfand talks about where they're
priced, you know, and whatthey're seeing in the industry,
and he does a phenomenal job atthat and it's we like to
(26:33):
understand.
You know where we're at and stayaggressive and competitive with
the pricing.
We're not going to be thecheapest, but we don't want to
be the cheapest because we knowwe're offering one of the best.
And then on the service side ofthings, we have a very quick
lead time in the industry.
You know, right now, obviouslyspring rush is a little longer
than usual, but we'reconsistently two to three weeks
on a custom build, sometimeseven shorter than that in some
(26:55):
of our Southern districts.
And we're just, we're proud ofwhat we offer our technology and
our systems and our orderprocessing for dealers and the
speed and the fluidity that webring to the table with that.
So, it's a balancing act and,Marc
, I'll let you touch on anythingyou want to touch on there as
well, with the kind of trianglewe discussed.
Marc (27:13):
Yeah, no, I think that JW hit it pretty well.
I mean, I would say this, soyou know from a, from a price
and service and qualitystandpoint.
You know I am a listen.
I'm a sales guy through andthrough.
I'm not highly detailed, nor amI very good at pivot tables,
pivot tables or Excelspreadsheets Okay, that's just
(27:34):
not my strong suit.
I'm a sales guy, right.
So, I love talking to people,meeting shed friends.
I'll be up front with you.
Hey, I'm proud to work in theindustry.
There's plenty of customers.
Everybody's trying to feed ourfamilies, right.
Like I mentioned earlier, I gotthree kids.
A lot.
We're trying to feed ourfamilies.
There's enough customers to goaround for everybody to be
(27:55):
successful.
One of the things that was astruggle with SDI is pre-COVID.
We spent a tremendous amount ofinvestment training dealers how
to sell, what to do, points ofcontact, all that stuff.
Well, COVID comes along andchanges the mindset.
We became order takers, right.
We no longer were shed sellers,we became order takers.
It was easy.
(28:16):
You know what I'm saying,pivoting over to 2025, I am a
big data guy.
So, customers are looking for aquality product at a great
price that's super easy to dealwith and get into and so you
can't really be all three.
(28:37):
Okay, here's an example of that.
We have a value line.
We call it the Eagle Series.
It primarily makes up 15%, 10%of our total revenue.
That price point is really,really low in the market.
But, yes, the quality of theshed is, you know, we two by
fours in the four, 24 inch inthe walls.
(28:57):
It's a value on a shed.
You would think well, if everycustomer is only focused on
price, that's all we would sell.
Honestly, it's 10 to 15% of ourtotal overall revenue.
So, customers are looking for agreat shed that is priced in
the market.
(29:18):
It doesn't have to be thecheapest.
They're not looking for thehighest of the highs, they're
not looking for the lowest oflows.
They're looking for quality ata great price point you wouldn't
even think about.
Then really, the service piececomes into play.
Customers want it to be easy.
I tell dealers all the timelisten, your job is to sling
(29:39):
sheds and sell the shed.
It's not to schedule thedelivery, it's not to follow up
with customer service, it's notto handle this and that I need
you to sell the shed.
Call the next lead, sell thatshed.
Call the next lead, sell thatshed.
Let us put technology in placebehind you to make it super easy
and super seamless for thecustomer.
But I will say this customerswant a quality product.
(30:03):
Here's an example SDI in 2018,2019, we used to sell the T111
sided board, and so, man, we'reheavily involved in the
community.
Sdi is always really trying tosupport, whether it's ministry,
whether it's needs of thecommunity, and so I remember
(30:23):
seeing a T111 building that manit probably was two years old,
it molded, had all thatnastiness on it and I said I
don't care if that costs fivebucks, I can't put my name on
that.
I can't go to church on Sundaymorning and say, hey, I just
bought a T111 from you and youknow it's molded, I just can't
do that.
So, really, what we're tryingto do is really focus and mesh
(30:47):
and try to find our identity.
What is it?
What do we want to do best?
Number one we want to build agreat building.
We want to build a unit thatyou know what, 10, 15 years from
now, you're going to look atthat unit and say I am super
excited about that purchase.
At the same time, we want it tobe at a great price point that
(31:07):
is, in the industry and make itsuper easy for the customer to
get in the unit, whether it'sprocessing the order, scheduling
delivery and delivery of theshed.
But we are focused on buildinga building we can put our name
on at the same time at a pricepoint that is advantageous for
all parties.
Jared (31:28):
Yeah, I think JW said something that I want to kind of
circle back to as we get intoanother topic.
It all kind of flows together.
One of the things that we'veseen in the steel side of things
, the steel building side, isthis kind of constant race to
the bottom right, and I thinkwith COVID it created a vacuum
(31:50):
of interest with people where,well, I can build a shed, I can
become a shed manufacturer, I'llstart selling sheds.
And then all of a sudden youget every Tom, Dick and Harry
coming in wanting to build shedsor wanting to, you know, build
metal buildings.
And well, they, they've gottube seal scraps over here at
the, at the local manufactureryard and I'll just start buying
(32:13):
tubing and I'll start making myown metal buildings and selling
them.
And what that's created is it'screated this huge vacuum effect
where all of a sudden, thepricing is now based on
something that isn't even acomparable option, and that's
something that Marc and I havegone back and forth about is
like you know, a lot of placesout there will say, hey, we'll
(32:35):
price match this or we'll pricematch that, and really what
you're price matching is like 48on center rafters.
Right, you know, you've gotmaybe 36 wall studs.
God only knows what you'reusing for building materials.
It certainly isn't a qualityproduct like LP, right, you know
(32:56):
?
Goodness knows what it is.
It could just be lined in twoby fours.
You don't know what you'regetting half the time.
And I think from a dealerperspective it has become
extremely difficult to findthose really reputable partners
Like for us.
American Steel cannot speakhighly enough about our
relationship with American Steel.
(33:16):
Carolina, carports, eagle youknow some of these really top
tier metal buildingmanufacturers that haven't been
doing it for a couple of monthsor a couple of years.
They've been doing it fordecades.
These are companies that are OGcompanies.
That's where Dayton Barns wantsto be and like for us.
When the opportunity came alongto work with you guys, I knew
(33:40):
immediately, because of thequality that I saw in the
buildings that you produced,that's who I want to ride with.
It's no longer a race to thebottom for me.
I'd rather sell Cadillacs thanKias, right, nothing against
Kias, you know what I'm saying.
But you know, Cadillac justcarries that ambiance, and JW's
(34:01):
heard me do this.
The biggest comparison I cangive you, the easiest one to
understand, is when you're hotand it's muggy outside.
It's 105 and you're looking forsomething cold to drink.
An RC Cola might hit just fine.
But you're still looking for aCoca Cola, you're still looking
(34:22):
for a Pepsi.
You know what I mean and that'swhere I get to in the in the
shed and metal buildings is I'vesold enough of these things.
I've seen enough of them overthe years.
I've been all over the UnitedStates looking at buildings.
I can tell you, from a qualityperspective, sheds direct is
right up there with the bestI've seen and I got to give you
guys all the prep, the props inthe world for sticking to your
(34:45):
guns on that, because thequality matters right now and
you know.
Talk to me a little bit aboutwhat you see.
You heard my opinion.
I want to hear your guysopinion from a manufacturing
side and I know you don't speakfor SDI as a company, so let me
gravitas that with.
If there's anything said here,this is just JW and Marc's
(35:05):
opinion, right, yeah?
So I want to hear from you guyson a personal level how does
that race to the bottom affectyou guys in your current roles?
How do you think it affects SDIand other manufacturers, not
just you guys, it affectseverybody, the whole industry,
right yeah?
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Marc (36:41):
Well, I can say this you know, everybody in the industry
post-COVID is really strugglingwith understanding the
manufacturing, understanding themargin, understanding really
just the overall cost of doingbusiness.
You know, especially with thetariff situation going on right
now, that's changing daily.
Okay, and we have had multiple.
(37:04):
You know, we just we had someconversations with a couple of
manufacturers recently anddiscuss this topic of race to
the bottom.
At the end of the day, I do,and it's so funny, my, my kids
get upset at me because whenwe're dealing with the situation
at home, I equate everything toreally the game of baseball.
(37:25):
Right, that's what I know,that's what I enjoy.
I equate that to the game ofbaseball and I tell them it's
like purchasing a bat.
When I go to the sporting goodsstore and I'm looking at all the
bats that are laid out there,it's an investment.
Right, this is not buying ashed, it's not just hey, I need
to throw a structure up in my,my backyard.
(37:46):
Listen, it's an, it's aninvestment.
My neighbors are going to seeit, my family's going to see it,
people in the community isgoing to see it.
It's an investment that that Iwant to be proud of.
And so, I tell them.
It's like buying a new baseballbat.
I'm not going to buy thecheapest USA bat I can find.
Yeah, it may be, it may saywhat it's going to say and it
(38:07):
may save me some money, but atthe end of the day I'm not going
to do it.
Now am I going to buy the mostexpensive, crazy, something
that's been rolled and torquedand whatever they say?
Probably not going to buy thateither, but I'm going to buy
something that I'm proud of,that I want to put in my son's
(38:29):
hands or my daughter's handsthat says you know what?
At the end of the day, Iinvested my hard-earned money in
that bat.
That's a quality bat at a greatprice point and it does
everything I need it to do, andI'm proud of that.
Right, you know I have madesome purchases in my day that I
thought man, this is a greatdeal, I'm going to save a bunch
(38:51):
of money and then six monthslater, I'm like I'm a, I'm an
idiot.
I knew better than to make thatpurchase Right.
And so, when it comes to Sheds,direct and just builders in
general, you know the race tothe bottom will get you to the
bottom.
You know what I'm saying.
And what we're trying to do iswe're trying to set ourselves
(39:13):
apart from the industry to saylook, we understand that right
now.
Hey, listen, it's tough foreverybody.
I mean, yes, great things arehappening, but you have to put
in a tremendous amount of effortto be successful.
But at the end of the day, weare not going to play in that
game.
I'm not going to be thecheapest in the market.
(39:34):
I don't want to be the cheapestin the market.
I want to put a building in yourbackyard that you can say hey,
Mr Neighbor, come check this out.
I want my neighbor to call meand say dude, where'd you get
that at, Bro, I got to get oneof those that's awesome At the
same time at a great price pointand make it super easy for the
customer.
That's really what our focus is.
(39:54):
So, like I said, we can race tothe bottom, but at the end of
the day, that's going to put usall, that's going to put us all
at the bottom of the ocean, andthat's not where I want to be.
Yeah, we.
Jared (40:07):
we struggled right.
So again, we've talked aboutthis.
We worked with othermanufacturers.
We've been other places.
We loved the cheap price point.
Matter of fact, Dayton Barnsate it up and loved it right.
But what we figured out overtime was that cheaper price
point cost us other time downthe road.
(40:27):
We were taking care ofcustomers.
Exactly what you said, Marc.
We were not picking the phoneup and selling sheds.
We were picking the phone up toan upset customer.
Hey, my building's leaking.
Hey, something's falling apart.
Hey, something's come loose.
Hey, I can't get a hold of themanufacturer.
I've got a warranty question.
I can't tell you how much timewe wasted personally, and you
(40:51):
know that that seems to alwaysbe the trend when you're working
with the race to the bottomright, you end up at the bottom
where you know at the.
At the onset it looks great,Everything's perfect.
Oh man, we're slinging shedleft and right.
But then, six months into it,you're fielding phone calls.
Hey, I can't get a hold ofperson X, I can't get a hold of
(41:13):
person Y.
You're the only person whopicks the phone up and I can
tell you from a dealerperspective, if you are dealing
with manufacturing problems withyour buildings.
You need to think about whatyou're doing.
It is a waste of your time.
It's not your job.
Your job as a dealer is to sellexactly what Marc said, and I'm
(41:34):
so glad he said it.
Your job is to pick the phoneup or answer that Facebook
message or that Google messageor whatever, and sell that shed
message or that Google messageor whatever, and sell that shed.
The manufacturer should bepicking up everything on the
backside of that deal, fromtransportation of the building
to delivery to the customer'sproperty, to customer service
after the fact.
You should not be dealing withthat and if you are, you need to
(41:57):
be getting paid commiseratelyfor it or figuring something
else out, because you arewasting time and you are going
to find yourself upside down ina real hurry.
And that's where we were.
I mean, I can tell you I stilllove our previous partners.
I wish them well.
They're doing well, but I wasdone with it.
I was done with it from anoverhead perspective.
(42:19):
I was done with it from acustomer customers being upset
and frustrated perspective.
We haven't had hardly anyfingers crossed metal building
negative reviews over the lastcouple of years.
Most of our negative reviewsare from wood sheds from
previous manufacturers.
We're still getting them.
We just got one the other day,Not even joking.
(42:41):
We've been with SDI over a yearnow and we're getting reviews
from other manufacturers justnow, right now, and it makes us
look bad and we have to go aboveand beyond and from a dealer
perspective it's lousy.
So if you're sitting therethinking about anything that
we've talked about, talk to me.
(43:03):
My email is at the bottom,Jared, at Dayton Barns.
I'm happy to walk you through.
I'm happy to give you advice.
I love what Marc said.
I say it a lot on the podcasttoo.
There's plenty of buildings tobe sold.
We're all in this industrytogether.
We should all lock arms and dothe best we can, because the
industry needs us to step up andbe the very best we can be,
because everybody wins.
(43:24):
Industry needs us to step upand be the very best we can be
because everybody wins.
A rising tide raises all boats.
That's the way I look at things.
I'm going to tell you this, guyswe have gone to the extent with
just a little bit of topicstoday.
I want to get you guys on.
We're going to go to a part two.
I'm going to give a quick shoutout to the guys over at J Money
(43:44):
.
They're there for you if you'vegot anything financing related.
If you guys need help on acontracting project, if you're a
metal building dealer orwoodshed dealer, check out
Shannon on Wednesdays on theShed Geek podcast and the team
over at Shed Geek Marketing.
If you need help, if you are astruggling dealer right now,
give the guys over at Shed GeekMarketing a call.
(44:04):
They can get you set up allover the place price-wise.
If you're worried about hey, Idon't want to spend money on
marketing, give Dylan a call.
He might be able to help youout with something.
I can tell you guys, I alwaystry to end the podcast on a
positive note.
Get out in your community anddo something good for somebody.
Do something good for aneighbor or friend.
(44:24):
We are recording this on Aprilthe 17th.
Tomorrow is Good Friday.
Enjoy your holiday.
You'll be seeing this after thefact, but I hope you guys had a
great and happy and healthyEaster weekend and a great
holiday on Good Friday.
Marc, JW, I'm going to keep youguys here, but we're going to
(44:45):
transition into a part two, socheck us out next week.
As we finish up thisconversation, we're going to
give you guys some talkingpoints and little things to move
forward.
How's that?
So, I can tell you guys, Iappreciate you listening to the
Steel Kings podcast.
As always, I am Jared.
This is the Steel Kings podcast.
We are going to check you guys'out next week and we'll be back
(45:07):
with the guys at Sheds Direct.
So y'all have a good week andwe'll talk to you soon Peace out
.
Hey guys, what's up.
This is Jared and this is theSteel Kings podcast.
Eric is on an assignment withthe pole barn crew today, so
it's me rocking solo, but I'mnot coming alone today.
I've got a couple of specialguests in the studio with me
today.
Um, quick shout out to the teamover at J money.
If you are a contractor, ametal building dealer, shed
(00:54):
dealer, really any kind of homeimprovement at all the team over
at J money can get you takencare of on your financing needs.
Contact Joel, Katy, the teamover at J Money.
They will be happy to help youwith your financing needs.
Quick shout out and plug to ourpodfather, Shannon over at the
Shed Geek podcast.
Check his show out onWednesdays.
He has had some special guestshere recently and we're getting
(01:16):
into some fun stuff there onWednesdays as well.
The guys over at Shed GeekMarketing, Dylan and his team,
are doing a great job.
If you are metal buildingdealer, shed dealer really any
anybody who's using marketing ifyou're on social media google
check out the team over at shedgeek marketing.
They're happy to get you, uh,started down the track to
success without further ado.
(01:37):
You guys have heard me talkabout.
Now we're on episode 9, 10,something like that.
For the last couple months youguys have gotten to know me,
gotten to know Eric a little bit.
You all know that we slingsheds in metal buildings
nationwide.
On the metal building sidewe're getting into tri-state
coverage with our wood sheds.
But you know you've heard ustalk about some of the struggles
(01:58):
we've had over the years tofind the right partner when it
comes to wood sheds.
And let me tell you somethingSheds Direct has been great to
us.
You guys have heard us rep themover the last couple of months.
What I'm really excited abouttoday is I get to have them in
the studio with me.
A couple of guys who have reallyone guy who's been an advocate
(02:19):
for Dayton Barns for a long timewas riding with us for a short
time as well really helped usstart and grow this business and
took his talents over to ShedsDirect.
And let me tell you somethingvery, very, very seldom in your
life do you meet somebody thatyou have an immediate connection
with.
A little over a year ago, a guystepped into our shop that
(02:42):
really changed the way that Ithought about slinging wood
sheds.
I'm going to introduce you guysto JW Rucker.
He's the district sales managerfor Sheds Direct, and I'm also
going to introduce you to thebusiness development director
for Sheds Direct, Marc Church,and let me tell you something
Marc is a very special guy.
Very, very seldom do you meetsomebody that has his talent and
(03:06):
his love for the industry.
He and I had an immediateconnection, and the joke that we
always ask each other is howmany people have you met with my
energy level and how manypeople have I met with Marc's?
And the answer that I alwaysgive Marc is I have never met
anybody who loves slinging shedslike Marc Church.
So let me tell you something,guys I am super pumped up and
(03:27):
excited to bring these guys intothe studio.
These two guys are from ShedsDirect and let me tell you
something we are proud and happyto be a Sheds Direct dealer.
Without further ado, JW, Marc,you guys are here in the studio
with the Steel Kings, with Jared.
What's up?
How's it going?
What's up, Jared?
How are you today?
Buddy, I am, uh, I am blessedbeyond my uh, my comprehension
(03:52):
this morning.
I can tell you we ran into sometechnical difficulties.
I'll give you a little peekbehind the curtain.
Uh, these guys were sittingthere laughing at me because I
went through the whole spiel.
I did the, I did theadvertising, I did the, I did
hype up, and they're justsitting there thinking Jared
your microphone's off, brother.
So we're finally in the studio,we're finally here.
Marc (04:12):
So, man, I'm better than I deserve this morning, how's
that I was texting JW like do Isupposed to be able to hear him?
Does he supposed to be able tohear me?
How does this usually work?
Honestly, man, I'm superexcited to be here.
I feel like I'm on Fox Newsright now with the whole podcast
thing.
(04:32):
I'm super excited.
While I travel, I listen topodcasts quite often.
I've been listening to theSteel Kings podcast here
probably over the last sixmonths.
Shannon doesn't know this, butI've definitely been a shed geek
podcaster as well, so superexcited to finally be on one of
these and and be able to toanswer questions and talk to you
(04:55):
guys about Sheds Direct.
Yeah, man.
Jared (04:58):
Yeah, it's, this is something.
So, I was telling at thebeginning, you came to me about
a year ago and this is Marc.
So, Marc walks in the door andI don't know Marc from anybody
else.
He's a complete stranger to meand I mean you can already hear
it in his voice.
He, he's got a uniqueness towho he is and, man, he sold me
(05:18):
that second.
I was ready to.
I mean, you'd have to, you'dhave to tell us Marc, but I mean
I was ready to sign up thatsecond.
Now, at the time the ironic partis JW was working with us and
had been for a while and uh, youknow it was.
It's been a tumultuous, to saythe least, stead partnerships
(05:39):
over the years.
We have a rule here we don'ttalk bad about anybody, and not
that those relationships werebad, but you know when the
relationship's good, when it'sgood right, you know how good
the grass can be when it's green.
So, I can tell you we've beenrepping you guys for the last
few months and we couldn't behappier with what we've got so
far.
(05:59):
So first of all, thank you fromthe Dayton Barns team and Steel
Kings.
But tell us a little bit aboutyourselves, guys.
I mean, that's usually what wedo here.
First is we introduce and tellus a little bit about yourselves
and your product and kind of gofrom there.
JW (06:14):
JW, you want to go first?
Yeah, I'll take the lead.
So, my name is JW Rucker.
I have been blessed to be inthe shed industry since I was 16
years old.
So, I got linked up with EricOlson, who obviously isn't here
today.
But awesome man, we linked up.
He asked me to help him out ofthe shed lot one day and it was
a rainy day, horrible weatherday.
(06:35):
I was 16 years old Somehow.
I sold seven sheds that day andhad to call Eric for every
single one of them and ask himfor help on how to do it.
So, I mean, it's been a journeyever since then.
I was so thankful that he gaveme that opportunity.
We were able to kind of growthis business.
I remember meeting Jared.
Jared came along and really putgas in our engine to continue
to grow the business and thenlast year I made the transition
(07:00):
over to the manufacturing sideof things and took a role here
at Sheds Direct and have beensuper happy since, super
thankful to work at the team atSheds Direct.
We are proud to service manystates in the Mid-Atlantic and
then over in the Midwest.
So, I'm the district salesmanager for our Ohio, Indiana
and Michigan districts and it'sjust been an exciting
(07:20):
opportunity and through it all Istill got to keep my
relationship with Eric and Jaredand the crew at Dayton Barns
and be able to help them, youknow, meet their shed needs,
sell sheds and be successful.
So super thankful for beinghere today.
Thanks for having us on, jerry.
Yeah, for sure, man.
Marc (07:35):
Yeah, what's up guys.
My name is Marc Church.
I've been with Sheds Directsince 2018.
A funny fact about me I amclean shaven today, but at one
time in my life, my beard was aslong as Jared's.
So, I decided to take asabbatical and move to Wyoming
and live in the mountains of theBridger Tetons for about a year
(07:58):
, until I just got too cold andsaid, man, I've got to get back
south.
My bloodline was not designedfor five feet of snow.
So, at that time, Jared, I hadthat beard going.
But no, I started with SDI inAugust 2018.
Previously, I was with UnitedParcel Service in their sales
management teams for about 12years, and I have three children
(08:22):
, a wife.
At that time, I was travelingto multiple states all over the
place, and so I was also.
One of my hobbies is coachingball.
I love to coach baseball youthbaseball and so I was on a
baseball field and our founder Iwas actually coaching his son
at the time.
We strike up a conversation andI said man, you can't make any
money selling sheds, what areyou talking about?
(08:44):
And so he said, hey, come tothe office, let's sit down and
talk about it.
So, from there, 2018, shedsDirect was definitely a much
different entity at that timeFrom transitioning through COVID
.
Now post-COVID, we'vedefinitely been highly blessed
(09:08):
and super excited about thefuture and things to come,
especially about ourpartnerships with individuals
such as Dayton Barns, such asJared and his team, and really
that collaboration of technologyand really the desire to sling
sheds is what I say, and so justsuper excited about the future
for sure.
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Jared (10:55):
So, I'm gonna jump right in here.
I want to hear what you guysare seeing, market wise, right.
So, industry trends headinginto 2025 sales season Is there
anything that you guys can sharewith a broad audience?
Right, we talked tomanufacturers, other
manufacturers, we talked todealers, we talked to suppliers.
(11:17):
We've got a little bit ofeverybody in the pool here of
the audience of the Steel Kingspodcast.
What are you guys seeing?
I mean, I know, from ourperspective, you know we're
seeing the businesses downpodcast.
What are you guys seeing?
I mean, I know, from ourperspective, we're seeing the
businesses down a little bitthis year.
Right, and we have to dosomething creative.
Dayton Barns is obviously we'rea national kind of a
(11:38):
conglomerate at this point formetal buildings.
What we're trying to do iswe're trying to really find a
niche with our wood buildings.
We've, you know, over the lastcouple of years, we really
peaked, probably in 2021, 2022,with our wood sales and then
struggled with our supplier atthat time and then, really, when
we got with you guys last year,we got kind of at the tail end
(11:59):
of the season.
We didn't get our supply untilmid-summer and we had a great
fall and we're having a reallystrong start to our year, but I
think there's a lot of peopleout there listening to the
podcast now that are like man,do I want to sell sheds anymore?
Right, you know, what are youguys seeing?
You know, I think it's rightnow.
It's where does Sheds Direct?
(12:20):
See the industry going?
Is it technological, is it?
What do we need to do as awhole?
See the industry going?
Marc (12:28):
Is it technological?
What do we need to do as awhole, as an industry?
JW, you want to take this, youwant me to take it, you take it,
you take it.
I'll jump in.
So, first off, I would say thisCOVID was a blessing in the shed
industry for many reasons.
Also, with COVID, it broughttremendous challenge.
When you look at just thepressure of supply chain, the
(12:50):
pressure of productiondeliveries, just system overload
, no one has ever managed in ourgeneration, no one has ever
managed an organization in anyindustry during a pandemic and
nobody has ever managed one postpandemic.
Okay, so the first thing Iwould, I would tell you, is
(13:11):
coming out of coming out ofCOVID.
Now, you know, 2023 really wasthe year we came out of COVID.
It was a struggle for, for manyreasons, every dealer that I
spoke to, sdi or non-SDI, it wasin that downturn Every finance
company, rto company, anypartner at that time that was in
(13:34):
the shed industry I would haveweekly, monthly conversations
with.
It was a struggle for everyoneand really you had to pivot
daily to really stay in front ofthe ebbs and flows of the
industry Coming into 2024, weare really, really excited,
mainly because our mindset inthe fourth quarter of 2020, it
(13:55):
really or my fault coming into2025, we're really excited.
Our mindset in the fall of 2024was hey, you know what?
We're not sure what 2025 isgoing to do.
We're not sure what 2026 isgoing to do.
We're not sure what tomorrow isgoing to do.
Okay, but at the end of the day, we're going to really develop
a strategy and try to implementthat.
(14:19):
So far, the biggest challengethat we have seen coming into
2025 is really the weathersituation, something that we
could never predict.
Some of our areas Michigan,Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New
York saw tremendous amounts ofcold weather, tremendous amounts
of snow.
We have a dealer up near theCleveland market and so I called
(14:42):
him and he had a tremendousNovember, a tremendous December
and January.
Man just was not really in thepicture and I called him.
I said what happened, what'sgoing on?
He said I haven't seen my lotin 30 days.
He said I've got two feet ofsnow on the pavement right now.
So, you know, first off, thatsituation.
Even down in the South, we sawmore cold weather and snow than
(15:06):
we have in many, many years.
Our dealers in the easternstrand of South Carolina, North
Carolina, all the way up intoVirginia they were getting snow
Places at the beach four to five, six inches of snow.
So, number one, the winter wasa struggle was a struggle.
What we have seen since then isa very, very strong end of
(15:30):
February, March and April andreally building that momentum
going into 2025.
We started to see that with ourdealers in the South Carolina,
Oklahoma.
Virginia really started to seethat towards probably that last
week of Virginia into March, andnow we're seeing this momentum
(15:51):
shift in April with our dealersin Ohio, Indiana, Michigan,
Pennsylvania, New York.
So you know, from an industrystandpoint, I do keep in touch
with multiple builders, keep intouch with multiple competitive
dealers standpoint, I do keep intouch with multiple builders,
keep in touch with multiplecompetitive dealers and so far,
I think that we wereanticipating another struggle
(16:11):
and not saying that, hey, it'sall roses.
But I do believe that theindustry as a whole, on the shed
side, is really excited aboutwhat's to come throughout 2025,
into 2026 and definitely in thefuture.
So, starting to see thatmomentum ramp, starting to see
people get excited about, like Isay, coming in early and
(16:33):
staying late, slinging sheds,calling old leads, whatever it
is, you know, people are reallystarting to get excited again
and feel like the industry isstarting to come back very, very
aggressively.
Jared (16:46):
Yeah, I see.
JW (16:47):
I'll second that, if you don't mind.
The biggest difference thatI've seen 23 and 24 were
challenging post-COVID.
As Marc said, in 2020, 2021,2022, dealers were used to
having a line out their door.
In all seriousness, whetherthey were a good dealer or what,
what you know, a bad dealerlike you could be bad at selling
(17:08):
sheds and have a line out yourdoor in 2020 or in 2021, 23 and
24, that just wasn't the caseand you had to get creative.
You had to kind of figure outhow to advertise online.
You had to figure out and havea sales pitch, because it wasn't
people coming with pockets fullof money trying to spend it, it
was you were.
You were fighting to earnbusiness and you kind of had to
adapt and learn that.
(17:28):
So far in 2025, I'll echo Marcthough the winter was the most
challenging.
I've lived in Ohio for seven oreight years now.
This was the most challengingwinter that I can remember in
terms of just we got 16 inchesof snow one day and seven days
later we got six more on top ofit, in January, you know and
just record cold temperatures,and it was definitely a
(17:49):
challenge.
But I think there's some moreexcitement.
I talk to my entire team prettymuch every day of dealers and
they're all excited man, they'vegot, they're starting to get
some lines out their door.
Really that last week ofFebruary just kind of busted
loose, and February, march andApril have been a blessing so
far.
Jared (18:07):
Yeah, I think we, coming off of 24, I think we had a
couple of different things right.
We had there's always theuncertainty in the political
climate when there's an electiongoing on.
I think there's a lot of thingsthat we're heading.
2024 was just a rough yearacross the board, I think, for
portable building dealers, metalbuilding dealers.
I know we talked about it, wetalked about it at length.
(18:28):
I think the one thing as wetransition into, I want to talk
a little bit about and JW refersto this price, quality and
service triangle.
We'll talk a little bit aboutthat.
But I think, from a dealerperspective somebody who's been
on the opposite side, if you'resitting there thinking, you know
, well, I'm not excited.
(18:48):
These guys sound excited.
I'm a dealer who's coming offof a really strong 23.
And you know JW can attest tothis we had a really, really,
really good relationship withour manufacturer at that time
(19:09):
and if you would have asked mein January of 24, if I was
interested in changing shedmanufacturers, I would have told
you there wasn't a snowball'schance.
I would have told you therewasn't a snowball's chance, zero
percent going to happen.
But two or three months goes byand promises made were promises
not kept Right and if you'resitting back and you're dealing
with something like that, reallytake it, really take a hard
(19:32):
look.
Because the way the JW and Marcare right, the way the market
was during COVID and post-COVIDthere were so many more
manufacturers, there were somany more buildings to go around
, the building materials werecheaper than they are right now.
A lot of that stuff has changedand if you're a dealer and you
don't know, I'm telling youthese guys will back me up.
(19:53):
The market has changedtremendously for a manufacturer
over the last couple of yearsand that, from a dealer
perspective, is always hard tounderstand.
It's hard to sit back whenyou're used to getting inventory
on a regular basis and all of asudden you're not getting
inventory as regularly as youwere.
Well, that's because buildingmaterials are more expensive.
(20:14):
That's because it's harder toproduce a shed right now than it
was two or three years ago, notto mention municipalities we
all all know are getting harderto deal with.
Sheds are becoming somethingthat needs to be permitted
heavily across the board.
You might be in a situationwhere you're looking for
site-specific blueprints on awood shed.
(20:34):
We had one last year here inChampaign County, Ohio.
I had to get site-specificblueprints and you know all
these different things for ashed and I've never had to do
that before, never had to havefoundation stuff, never had to
care about that stuff.
You know here where I'm at inChampaign County you have to
have a 36-inch frost footer forany wood shed over 200 square
(20:57):
feet.
Inch frost footer for any woodshed over 200 square feet.
Figure that out Got to beanchored to a 36 inch frost
footer, not a 32 inch.
36 inch now because the code'schanged.
So I mean you're asking acustomer to spend thousands of
dollars more than the price of ashed just to get a shed here in
Champaign County.
So, with all of that said, Iwant to talk about that price,
(21:20):
quality and service trianglewith you guys.
I want to talk about what'simportant to a dealer
perspective, because I feel likeright now I have the best shed.
I have certainly top-notchservice.
I can't think of a time we'vehad any kind of customer service
issue.
Knock on wood.
I can't think of a time we'vehad any kind of customer service
(21:43):
issue knock on wood and thepricing is fair.
JW (21:50):
JW, explain that to me.
Yeah, that's really your baby.
Yeah, this is something that wetalk about a lot internally.
Try to balance it.
It's, as Jared said, the price,quality and service triangle.
Call it whatever you want.
That's kind of what it is.
Price is pretty straightforward.
Obviously, that's the price,quality and service triangle.
Call it whatever you want.
That's kind of what it is.
Price is pretty straightforward.
Obviously, that's the price ofthe product you're selling.
Quality is obviouslystraightforward.
That's how good is the productyou're selling.
You know what materials are youusing.
Are the rafters 48-inch?
Are they 16-inch?
(22:10):
You know somewhere in between.
What are the wall studs, youknow, and how far your joy is
spaced and things of that nature.
And then service kind ofencompasses a wide array.
It's you know what systems andprocesses do you have.
It's how fast is your lead time?
That's big for a customer andobviously what kind of customer
and dealer support that you haveon the back end of your
(22:30):
organization.
And it's a challenge to find abalance between those three
because you really can't be thebest at all three.
It's impossible.
Can you have bits and pieces ofall three?
Definitely.
But that's finding that balanceand kind of limboing to figure
out, hey, what is more importantin the market right now.
But even more so, what is ouridentity as an organization.
(22:52):
And we've been having a lot ofinternal conversations about
that recently.
And I think if you go backbefore COVID in the shed
industry and you talk to everybig manufacturer, they would all
tell you they had an identity.
You know, hey, we prideourselves on this.
When COVID happened and all ofa sudden the industry just blew
(23:12):
up, it was you could put 100buildings on a $300,000 dealer's
lot because you had the cash todo it.
You could have whatever systemsyou needed to have, or lack
thereof, because sheds werestill selling.
You could be as good quality oras bad quality as you wanted to
be, because people were stillbuying it.
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JW (25:07):
And I think in the midst of that we kind of had a bit of an
identity crisis for lack of abetter term in the industry of
all of a sudden, all of themanufacturers are trying to be
the best at price, the best atquality and the best at service,
and it's just never attainable.
And we're seeing Jared's heardme say a lot the cream starts to
(25:27):
rise to the top.
I think it did so a little bitin 24.
It's going to continue to do soin 25.
People who are stillaggressively fighting and trying
to be the best at all three arenot going to survive.
And that's just the fact of thematter.
And this is more on amanufacturer side of things.
But also, this is important fordealers to understand If you're
dealer discounting everybuilding over half your
(25:50):
commission just to be the bestprice, you're devaluing what
you're bringing to the table andwhat you're offering, and I
think that's just a challenge.
So, we've really been trying tofind the happy medium of it.
Sheds Direct.
We know we build one of thebest sheds on the market and
we're proud of that 16 inch oncenter.
You know we're proud of ourhurricane ties and some of the
other products that we offer,and we're blessed to be able to
(26:12):
do that and provide those we tryto market at an aggressive
price.
And we say Marc is the man onthe road.
He's constantly going out andvisiting dealers, talking with
manufacturers, not even likebehind people's backs, he just
walks in and introduces himselfand talks about where they're
priced, you know, and whatthey're seeing in the industry,
and he does a phenomenal job atthat and it's we like to
(26:33):
understand.
You know where we're at and stayaggressive and competitive with
the pricing.
We're not going to be thecheapest, but we don't want to
be the cheapest because we knowwe're offering one of the best.
And then on the service side ofthings, we have a very quick
lead time in the industry.
You know, right now, obviouslyspring rush is a little longer
than usual, but we'reconsistently two to three weeks
on a custom build, sometimeseven shorter than that in some
(26:55):
of our Southern districts.
And we're just, we're proud ofwhat we offer our technology and
our systems and our orderprocessing for dealers and the
speed and the fluidity that webring to the table with that.
So, it's a balancing act and,Marc
, I'll let you touch on anythingyou want to touch on there as
well, with the kind of trianglewe discussed.
Marc (27:13):
Yeah, no, I think that JW hit it pretty well.
I mean, I would say this, soyou know from a, from a price
and service and qualitystandpoint.
You know I am a listen.
I'm a sales guy through andthrough.
I'm not highly detailed, nor amI very good at pivot tables,
pivot tables or Excelspreadsheets Okay, that's just
(27:34):
not my strong suit.
I'm a sales guy, right.
So, I love talking to people,meeting shed friends.
I'll be up front with you.
Hey, I'm proud to work in theindustry.
There's plenty of customers.
Everybody's trying to feed ourfamilies, right.
Like I mentioned earlier, I gotthree kids.
A lot.
We're trying to feed ourfamilies.
There's enough customers to goaround for everybody to be
(27:55):
successful.
One of the things that was astruggle with SDI is pre-COVID.
We spent a tremendous amount ofinvestment training dealers how
to sell, what to do, points ofcontact, all that stuff.
Well, COVID comes along andchanges the mindset.
We became order takers, right.
We no longer were shed sellers,we became order takers.
It was easy.
(28:16):
You know what I'm saying,pivoting over to 2025, I am a
big data guy.
So, customers are looking for aquality product at a great
price that's super easy to dealwith and get into and so you
can't really be all three.
(28:37):
Okay, here's an example of that.
We have a value line.
We call it the Eagle Series.
It primarily makes up 15%, 10%of our total revenue.
That price point is really,really low in the market.
But, yes, the quality of theshed is, you know, we two by
fours in the four, 24 inch inthe walls.
(28:57):
It's a value on a shed.
You would think well, if everycustomer is only focused on
price, that's all we would sell.
Honestly, it's 10 to 15% of ourtotal overall revenue.
So, customers are looking for agreat shed that is priced in
the market.
(29:18):
It doesn't have to be thecheapest.
They're not looking for thehighest of the highs, they're
not looking for the lowest oflows.
They're looking for quality ata great price point you wouldn't
even think about.
Then really, the service piececomes into play.
Customers want it to be easy.
I tell dealers all the timelisten, your job is to sling
(29:39):
sheds and sell the shed.
It's not to schedule thedelivery, it's not to follow up
with customer service, it's notto handle this and that I need
you to sell the shed.
Call the next lead, sell thatshed.
Call the next lead, sell thatshed.
Let us put technology in placebehind you to make it super easy
and super seamless for thecustomer.
But I will say this customerswant a quality product.
(30:03):
Here's an example SDI in 2018,2019, we used to sell the T111
sided board, and so, man, we'reheavily involved in the
community.
Sdi is always really trying tosupport, whether it's ministry,
whether it's needs of thecommunity, and so I remember
(30:23):
seeing a T111 building that manit probably was two years old,
it molded, had all thatnastiness on it and I said I
don't care if that costs fivebucks, I can't put my name on
that.
I can't go to church on Sundaymorning and say, hey, I just
bought a T111 from you and youknow it's molded, I just can't
do that.
So, really, what we're tryingto do is really focus and mesh
(30:47):
and try to find our identity.
What is it?
What do we want to do best?
Number one we want to build agreat building.
We want to build a unit thatyou know what, 10, 15 years from
now, you're going to look atthat unit and say I am super
excited about that purchase.
At the same time, we want it tobe at a great price point that
(31:07):
is, in the industry and make itsuper easy for the customer to
get in the unit, whether it'sprocessing the order, scheduling
delivery and delivery of theshed.
But we are focused on buildinga building we can put our name
on at the same time at a pricepoint that is advantageous for
all parties.
Jared (31:28):
Yeah, I think JW said something that I want to kind of
circle back to as we get intoanother topic.
It all kind of flows together.
One of the things that we'veseen in the steel side of things
, the steel building side, isthis kind of constant race to
the bottom right, and I thinkwith COVID it created a vacuum
(31:50):
of interest with people where,well, I can build a shed, I can
become a shed manufacturer, I'llstart selling sheds.
And then all of a sudden youget every Tom, Dick and Harry
coming in wanting to build shedsor wanting to, you know, build
metal buildings.
And well, they, they've gottube seal scraps over here at
the, at the local manufactureryard and I'll just start buying
(32:13):
tubing and I'll start making myown metal buildings and selling
them.
And what that's created is it'screated this huge vacuum effect
where all of a sudden, thepricing is now based on
something that isn't even acomparable option, and that's
something that Marc and I havegone back and forth about is
like you know, a lot of placesout there will say, hey, we'll
(32:35):
price match this or we'll pricematch that, and really what
you're price matching is like 48on center rafters.
Right, you know, you've gotmaybe 36 wall studs.
God only knows what you'reusing for building materials.
It certainly isn't a qualityproduct like LP, right, you know
(32:56):
?
Goodness knows what it is.
It could just be lined in twoby fours.
You don't know what you'regetting half the time.
And I think from a dealerperspective it has become
extremely difficult to findthose really reputable partners
Like for us.
American Steel cannot speakhighly enough about our
relationship with American Steel.
(33:16):
Carolina, carports, eagle youknow some of these really top
tier metal buildingmanufacturers that haven't been
doing it for a couple of monthsor a couple of years.
They've been doing it fordecades.
These are companies that are OGcompanies.
That's where Dayton Barns wantsto be and like for us.
When the opportunity came alongto work with you guys, I knew
(33:40):
immediately, because of thequality that I saw in the
buildings that you produced,that's who I want to ride with.
It's no longer a race to thebottom for me.
I'd rather sell Cadillacs thanKias, right, nothing against
Kias, you know what I'm saying.
But you know, Cadillac justcarries that ambiance, and JW's
(34:01):
heard me do this.
The biggest comparison I cangive you, the easiest one to
understand, is when you're hotand it's muggy outside.
It's 105 and you're looking forsomething cold to drink.
An RC Cola might hit just fine.
But you're still looking for aCoca Cola, you're still looking
(34:22):
for a Pepsi.
You know what I mean and that'swhere I get to in the in the
shed and metal buildings is I'vesold enough of these things.
I've seen enough of them overthe years.
I've been all over the UnitedStates looking at buildings.
I can tell you, from a qualityperspective, sheds direct is
right up there with the bestI've seen and I got to give you
guys all the prep, the props inthe world for sticking to your
(34:45):
guns on that, because thequality matters right now and
you know.
Talk to me a little bit aboutwhat you see.
You heard my opinion.
I want to hear your guysopinion from a manufacturing
side and I know you don't speakfor SDI as a company, so let me
gravitas that with.
If there's anything said here,this is just JW and Marc's
(35:05):
opinion, right, yeah?
So I want to hear from you guyson a personal level how does
that race to the bottom affectyou guys in your current roles?
How do you think it affects SDIand other manufacturers, not
just you guys, it affectseverybody, the whole industry,
right yeah?
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Marc (36:41):
Well, I can say this you know, everybody in the industry
post-COVID is really strugglingwith understanding the
manufacturing, understanding themargin, understanding really
just the overall cost of doingbusiness.
You know, especially with thetariff situation going on right
now, that's changing daily.
Okay, and we have had multiple.
(37:04):
You know, we just we had someconversations with a couple of
manufacturers recently anddiscuss this topic of race to
the bottom.
At the end of the day, I do,and it's so funny, my, my kids
get upset at me because whenwe're dealing with the situation
at home, I equate everything toreally the game of baseball.
(37:25):
Right, that's what I know,that's what I enjoy.
I equate that to the game ofbaseball and I tell them it's
like purchasing a bat.
When I go to the sporting goodsstore and I'm looking at all the
bats that are laid out there,it's an investment.
Right, this is not buying ashed, it's not just hey, I need
to throw a structure up in my,my backyard.
(37:46):
Listen, it's an, it's aninvestment.
My neighbors are going to seeit, my family's going to see it,
people in the community isgoing to see it.
It's an investment that that Iwant to be proud of.
And so, I tell them.
It's like buying a new baseballbat.
I'm not going to buy thecheapest USA bat I can find.
Yeah, it may be, it may saywhat it's going to say and it
(38:07):
may save me some money, but atthe end of the day I'm not going
to do it.
Now am I going to buy the mostexpensive, crazy, something
that's been rolled and torquedand whatever they say?
Probably not going to buy thateither, but I'm going to buy
something that I'm proud of,that I want to put in my son's
(38:29):
hands or my daughter's handsthat says you know what?
At the end of the day, Iinvested my hard-earned money in
that bat.
That's a quality bat at a greatprice point and it does
everything I need it to do, andI'm proud of that.
Right, you know I have madesome purchases in my day that I
thought man, this is a greatdeal, I'm going to save a bunch
(38:51):
of money and then six monthslater, I'm like I'm a, I'm an
idiot.
I knew better than to make thatpurchase Right.
And so, when it comes to Sheds,direct and just builders in
general, you know the race tothe bottom will get you to the
bottom.
You know what I'm saying.
And what we're trying to do iswe're trying to set ourselves
(39:13):
apart from the industry to saylook, we understand that right
now.
Hey, listen, it's tough foreverybody.
I mean, yes, great things arehappening, but you have to put
in a tremendous amount of effortto be successful.
But at the end of the day, weare not going to play in that
game.
I'm not going to be thecheapest in the market.
(39:34):
I don't want to be the cheapestin the market.
I want to put a building in yourbackyard that you can say hey,
Mr Neighbor, come check this out.
I want my neighbor to call meand say dude, where'd you get
that at, Bro, I got to get oneof those that's awesome At the
same time at a great price pointand make it super easy for the
customer.
That's really what our focus is.
(39:54):
So, like I said, we can race tothe bottom, but at the end of
the day, that's going to put usall, that's going to put us all
at the bottom of the ocean, andthat's not where I want to be.
Yeah, we.
Jared (40:07):
we struggled right.
So again, we've talked aboutthis.
We worked with othermanufacturers.
We've been other places.
We loved the cheap price point.
Matter of fact, Dayton Barnsate it up and loved it right.
But what we figured out overtime was that cheaper price
point cost us other time downthe road.
(40:27):
We were taking care ofcustomers.
Exactly what you said, Marc.
We were not picking the phoneup and selling sheds.
We were picking the phone up toan upset customer.
Hey, my building's leaking.
Hey, something's falling apart.
Hey, something's come loose.
Hey, I can't get a hold of themanufacturer.
I've got a warranty question.
I can't tell you how much timewe wasted personally, and you
(40:51):
know that that seems to alwaysbe the trend when you're working
with the race to the bottomright, you end up at the bottom
where you know at the.
At the onset it looks great,Everything's perfect.
Oh man, we're slinging shedleft and right.
But then, six months into it,you're fielding phone calls.
Hey, I can't get a hold ofperson X, I can't get a hold of
(41:13):
person Y.
You're the only person whopicks the phone up and I can
tell you from a dealerperspective, if you are dealing
with manufacturing problems withyour buildings.
You need to think about whatyou're doing.
It is a waste of your time.
It's not your job.
Your job as a dealer is to sellexactly what Marc said, and I'm
(41:34):
so glad he said it.
Your job is to pick the phoneup or answer that Facebook
message or that Google messageor whatever, and sell that shed
message or that Google messageor whatever, and sell that shed.
The manufacturer should bepicking up everything on the
backside of that deal, fromtransportation of the building
to delivery to the customer'sproperty, to customer service
after the fact.
You should not be dealing withthat and if you are, you need to
(41:57):
be getting paid commiseratelyfor it or figuring something
else out, because you arewasting time and you are going
to find yourself upside down ina real hurry.
And that's where we were.
I mean, I can tell you I stilllove our previous partners.
I wish them well.
They're doing well, but I wasdone with it.
I was done with it from anoverhead perspective.
(42:19):
I was done with it from acustomer customers being upset
and frustrated perspective.
We haven't had hardly anyfingers crossed metal building
negative reviews over the lastcouple of years.
Most of our negative reviewsare from wood sheds from
previous manufacturers.
We're still getting them.
We just got one the other day,Not even joking.
(42:41):
We've been with SDI over a yearnow and we're getting reviews
from other manufacturers justnow, right now, and it makes us
look bad and we have to go aboveand beyond and from a dealer
perspective it's lousy.
So if you're sitting therethinking about anything that
we've talked about, talk to me.
(43:03):
My email is at the bottom,Jared, at Dayton Barns.
I'm happy to walk you through.
I'm happy to give you advice.
I love what Marc said.
I say it a lot on the podcasttoo.
There's plenty of buildings tobe sold.
We're all in this industrytogether.
We should all lock arms and dothe best we can, because the
industry needs us to step up andbe the very best we can be,
because everybody wins.
(43:24):
Industry needs us to step upand be the very best we can be
because everybody wins.
A rising tide raises all boats.
That's the way I look at things.
I'm going to tell you this, guyswe have gone to the extent with
just a little bit of topicstoday.
I want to get you guys on.
We're going to go to a part two.
I'm going to give a quick shoutout to the guys over at J Money
(43:44):
.
They're there for you if you'vegot anything financing related.
If you guys need help on acontracting project, if you're a
metal building dealer orwoodshed dealer, check out
Shannon on Wednesdays on theShed Geek podcast and the team
over at Shed Geek Marketing.
If you need help, if you are astruggling dealer right now,
give the guys over at Shed GeekMarketing a call.
(44:04):
They can get you set up allover the place price-wise.
If you're worried about hey, Idon't want to spend money on
marketing, give Dylan a call.
He might be able to help youout with something.
I can tell you guys, I alwaystry to end the podcast on a
positive note.
Get out in your community anddo something good for somebody.
Do something good for aneighbor or friend.
(44:24):
We are recording this on Aprilthe 17th.
Tomorrow is Good Friday.
Enjoy your holiday.
You'll be seeing this after thefact, but I hope you guys had a
great and happy and healthyEaster weekend and a great
holiday on Good Friday.
Marc, JW, I'm going to keep youguys here, but we're going to
(44:45):
transition into a part two, socheck us out next week.
As we finish up thisconversation, we're going to
give you guys some talkingpoints and little things to move
forward.
How's that?
So, I can tell you guys, Iappreciate you listening to the
Steel Kings podcast.
As always, I am Jared.
This is the Steel Kings podcast.
We are going to check you guys'out next week and we'll be back
(45:07):
with the guys at Sheds Direct.
So y'all have a good week andwe'll talk to you soon Peace out
.
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