October 18, 2024 • 50 mins
Unlock the secrets of the shed hauling industry as we bust myths and shed light on what it truly takes to succeed in this niche market. It’s not just about hopping into a truck; it demands a specialized skill set, significant startup capital, and the wisdom of seasoned mentors like Tyler. We promise to guide you through the complexities of the business model, emphasize the crucial role of education and innovation, and explore the exciting new technologies shaping the future of shed hauling.
Our discussion dives into the intricacies of equipment financing, a vital lifeline for many in the industry. Cardinal Leasing emerges as a key player, offering flexible financial solutions that fuel growth with their innovative weekly loan system. We illuminate the streamlined process of acquiring equipment loans and share insights on the importance of understanding financing as a temporary tool rather than a financial crutch. By leveraging our strong banking relationships, we ensure competitive rates and swift transactions, bringing you closer to the equipment you need to thrive.
We wrap up by navigating the broader business landscape, from the challenges of rapid expansion in the rent-to-own sector to the resilient community ties that hold this industry together. Our conversation takes a lighter turn with anecdotes from our adventurous escapades with the Kaufman boys. Through practical advice and a touch of humor, we invite you to join us on this enlightening journey, celebrating the vibrant, ever-evolving world of shed hauling.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.
To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.
To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
Shed Challenger
Cardinal Leasing
Cardinal Manufacturing
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SAMBASSADOR (00:09):
Welcome back to part two of a two-part episode.
Be sure to go back and listento part one.
You might've missed something.
Hope you enjoy the conversationtoday.
I eavesdropped on aconversation out there between
two rigs today and they weretalking about you can't just
take a truck driver and make ashed hauler out of them.
(00:29):
You know, just because you're agood truck driver does not mean
you're a good shed hauler.
And it just hit me again thatit is a unique business model in
the fact that you have to haveyou got to know.
I mean, we learned today, yougot to learn how to deal with
customers yeah um, you got toknow how to drive a rig, you got
to know how to run a mule, yougot to know how to handle all
(00:51):
these different situations andyou got to know how to kind of
halfway tell what level is ornot.
Yeah, you know it's.
It's such a wide variety ofstuff you have to do that it
takes and the equipment makes iteasier.
Yeah.
So, I'm not particularly fondof telling somebody that they
(01:12):
can get into this business for50 grand.
I did.
But I don't think it's realsmart to tell somebody they can
do that and three months downthe road they're frustrated and
they lost 50.
Like if they would have spent150, they'd probably stay in
business.
So, I guess there's two sidesto the ditch I'm trying to say
yeah.
You know what I'm saying.
You can't, and if you gohauling for some of these
(01:35):
companies, these guys arehauling for you, have to have a
certain amount of equipment tohandle what they want you to do.
Yeah.
JONATHAN MILLER (01:42):
Yeah, you just really hardly can get started
for 50 anymore.
SAMBASSADOR (01:46):
No.
JONATHAN MILLER (01:47):
I mean, I mean, you're probably up comfortable.
You know, to be reasonable,realistic, you should be up
closer to 75 to 100.
Bottom line, on the bottom sideof it, to really get to really
be successful.
Otherwise you're going toreally and there are some niche.
There's some niche stuff thatyou can do If you're wanting to
(02:08):
move just custom buildings andor just and there's, and that's
a really good market too if youwant to move just movers and
stuff for anybody.
That can be done with less smalltrailer small mule and um, but
it's, but it's not going to besteady, like calling for a
company but um
SHED GEEK (02:21):
I wrote an article kind of leading to the
one-size-fits-all model and Iwas like you know, there's just
so many different ways you canbe successful.
I think that sometimes we fallvictim to being in the
one-size-fits-all, like whatyour experience was.
I'll tell you here's a goodexample.
We had this conversationearlier.
I didn't grow up in theAnabaptist community and I
(02:45):
remember when it hit me itmight've been Richard Miller
that said it, but someone saidit.
If you know one Amish person,you've met one Amish person.
JONATHAN MILLER (02:53):
If you are not Amish, everyone's Amish.
SHED GEEK (02:55):
They're the same but in the story right.
Same with Baptist, Pentecostal,you name it, whatever you go
through any denomination, butit's that way's that way in in
any company setting or anythingtoo, like I dealt with these
guys so like they're all thisway, or uh, this guy's a shed
hauler, so I need to do it thisway?
are we allowing ourselves toopen up even the possibility
(03:17):
that there's different options,not label everyone, that it has
to be this one size fits all,because there's a lot of guys
who are doing things that arevery unique and being successful
at them, but it goes along withyour point.
There's still a bare minimum insome ways that it seems you
need to get in, but maybe youdon't have to have the biggest
truck, the coolest truck, thenicest paint job, the best
(03:40):
wheels, everything decked outand all that right off the bat.
JONATHAN MILLER (03:44):
It's just hard, though.
If somebody's getting in,though, and they're getting
started and they don't have alot of experience or very little
experience, what they reallyneed is like Sam Sworey or
somebody like what you were justsaying, Tyler.
They need somebody to bouncestuff off of.
Oh yeah, because otherwise youcan do that.
Obviously, the type of stuffthat we deal with is like you
(04:07):
can still buy a trailer for$20,000.
And you can find some oldtrailers, but I've seen time and
time again where you know,instead of buying the $20,000
trailer, you buy the $50,000trailer and make way, way, way
more money.
SAMBASSADOR (04:21):
Oh yeah.
JONATHAN MILLER (04:29):
Because you can deliver twice as many buildings
and not be broke down.
But if you don't know thatcoming in, you're going to buy
something cheap that looks likeit might work.
TYLER SHULTZ (04:35):
And you're working on it all the time, oh yeah,
and then breakdowns.
The expensive part is the lostincome, not the parts.
100%.
SAMBASSADOR (04:43):
You lose more in lost income than you do fixing
whatever you're doing.
Now that part does go acrossthe trucking industry.
It's very seldom, unless you buya cat, then you're going to
spend so much money that itcosts more to fix the motor than
your downtime does or a Ford,or a Ford, or a ford um, it's
(05:10):
you going back to what you saidabout what you can haul with
that 53 foot trailer versus the36 foot trailer.
You know, um, you're pullingthe same thing down the road,
basically burning the same fuel.
It's very little more cost inpulling the extra, and the way a
lot of our systems are set upwith sheds right now, you get
paid to haul the extra shed.
It's like you were saying, andit's not just an extra shed a
(05:32):
month, it's an extra shed everycouple days and it adds up to a
lot of money.
I didn't, you know.
For me that was not an issue,it didn't make any difference.
Um, but that that is I don'tknow.
75, 80 percent of the shedswe're seeing hauled today are
being hauled on rigs where theyhave multiple sheds, and that
(05:53):
extra 16 foot adds up to anextra shed every couple days.
That's a big deal.
It's a huge deal.
Yeah, and they're hauling thema long ways, you know.
Look at another thing.
You see twice as many semis nowas you did.
TYLER SHULTZ (06:05):
Yeah, you know, it used to be mostly pickup trucks
and a couple random semis seemslike since I've started, there
is starting to be a big split inthe shed hauling.
There's the guys that aretrying to stay under cdl
regulations, and then everybodyelse is starting to head for
yeah personally, I don't thinkyou should be allowed to haul
oversize without having cdl, butI'll I get some agreement.
(06:28):
I also don't think you shouldbe able to pull uh camper
trailers without a cdl.
SAMBASSADOR (06:35):
Well, at least the big motor homes, like Jonathan
hasn't seen my wife on the motorhome.
Yeah, I know, I don't that thatdoesn't bother me so much you
know.
Yeah, I it's.
I hate regulations, but incertain things, if you're going
to have it anyway, like it, itjust.
(06:58):
It makes no sense to me how Ihave to have a commercial
driver's license to haul a35,000-pound down.
No, I'm going to get in trouble.
37,000-pound load down the road, but I don't have to to haul a
14 by 80 building.
That doesn't weigh enough.
You know what I'm saying,because there's a whole lot more
(07:19):
risk in the one than the other.
I don't know, it's just yes, Idon't know it's, it's just yes,
I don't like regulations.
SHED GEEK (07:26):
You think you could ever get like a uh state,
municipal or state worker on apodcast to talk about regulation
.
SAMBASSADOR (07:39):
Well, there's a guy in Columbia, South Carolina,
named Melvin, that I establisheda good enough relationship with
back in the mid-90s that Iprobably could, but he probably
wouldn't say anything that he'syou know.
He'd be like, well, I can'ttalk about that, or I can't talk
about this or whatever.
And I actually know a couple ofDOT guys.
There again, it'sinterpretation of law.
(08:00):
One DOT guy will tell you cando one thing, another one will
tell you something else.
That's why I fondly refer tothem as revenuers because,
that's all they are you pay theright amount of money, you can
do whatever you want to do.
It's all about the money Taxcollectors.
They're tax collectors.
I call them the externalInstead of the internal revenue
(08:21):
service.
They're the external revenueservice, that's all they are.
TYLER SHULTZ (08:25):
They.
They're the internal revenueservice, they're the external
revenue service.
That's all they are.
They contribute to some burnout.
SAMBASSADOR (08:27):
Oh yes, it does contribute to burnout.
Honestly, when I finally gotfed up and said I had enough was
after I had like three of themin a week from two different
drivers, me being one of them,and you know it was like we were
getting hit every day inFlorida for no reason whatsoever
and I'm like you know what?
(08:48):
I don't get paid enough to dothis.
I'm going to go find somethingelse to do.
SHED GEEK (08:53):
So, like when you get Like a ticket and it's like
your rig's not safe for ourroads, You're like your roads
are not safe for my rig.
SAMBASSADOR (09:01):
Yes, they don't like that answer for some reason
.
Sam can definitely speak tothat, living in South Carolina,
safe for my rig.
TYLER SHULTZ (09:05):
Good luck telling them that they don't like that
answer for some reason.
Sam can definitely speak tothat.
Living in South Carolina.
SAMBASSADOR (09:09):
We got three-bedroom apartments out in
the middle of 85.
They're just under the ground.
You fall in those suckers.
You can't get back out of them.
I will say this as bad as SouthCarolina is, I travel enough
that there are some other statesthat just make me thank the
good Lord that I live in SouthCarolina.
It's incredible.
Our road system is way outdated, for whatever that's worth.
(09:35):
Where do you want to go?
Where do you see CardinalLeasing going in the next five
years?
JONATHAN MILLER (09:45):
I don't have a good answer for that, to be
honest.
I mean, so I think that justfrom a big picture, from a
cardinal leasing side, equipmentfinancing, leasing the rent
down stuff we do, I'm not surewhat's going to change.
I don't.
(10:06):
I guess I honestly don't seeany real big change right now in
the, in the in the next fiveyears you brought Tyler on board
.
You're happy with where you'regoing yeah, I'm happy with where
we're going.
I, I my goal is to keep doing,seeing what we can do to better,
to somehow improve things alittle bit more, because I think
they're.
I just, I think the drivers.
You asked earlier about theweak link on the whole system
(10:28):
and I, I personally still thinkthe weakest link probably is
drivers like you know, Tylersaid driver burnout and that
that that really factors in.
But, um, you know, maybe thedrivers need an NBSRA type of
deal or something like that tohelp them.
I mean which you've got, theshed holders brotherhood, but I
don't know how active that likehow many guys, you've got in
that, but to somehow get moreguys pulling together to know
(10:51):
where they need to be and to besuccessful.
SAMBASSADOR (10:56):
Well, you mentioned education, and that's something
I think we need to startworking on.
JONATHAN MILLER (11:01):
I think it's huge yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (11:02):
Yeah, it's.
I see a lot of guys.
I see a lot of success storiesbecause I hear about them behind
the scenes, but there's a lotof guys that fall through the
cracks.
Oh yeah, that the problem.
The problem is in order to be agood shed hauler, you don't
want to listen to anybody else.
That know, the guy that has thegetter done, whatever it takes
(11:27):
attitude, doesn't tend to listenvery well to everybody else.
So, we have to come up with away to educate that makes
everybody all nice and warm andfuzzy, and that's something I
think we can work on in theindustry.
I love the fact that youbrought a hauler on board to
help with this.
JONATHAN MILLER (11:45):
I think for us that's been, you know that's
been, that's been, that's been.
That's huge.
Yeah, like I think.
And you know with Tyler, withhim hauling, you know spending
four years out there hauling ifguys are calling him to try to
figure out what a solution isfor them.
I mean he's, he's done that,he's been there done that and he
knows what they're dealing withand he knows how frustrating it
(12:07):
is when things aren't goinggood and so it makes it so much
easier.
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (13:28):
So, you mentioned something today that I knew
about but I don't think mostguys know about.
You're not just CardinalLeasing.
As far as leasing equipment,You're actually helping people
with finance side.
JONATHAN MILLER (13:39):
Yeah Now, you want to talk about that a little
bit?
Sure, I mean, I think that'syeah.
I don't know how many peopleknow about that.
SAMBASSADOR (13:46):
I know we haven't pushed it real hard.
JONATHAN MILLER (13:49):
But that is I don't know what number like if
we look over the last couple ofmonths.
Tyler, I don't know if you havea number off the top of your
head as far as quantity, but Iknow you know, if I look at the
numbers coming through and Idon't see all of them, but I
would say we do probably atleast a couple of loans a week
on an average, and I've seen itup to you know, three, four or
five loans a week with justconventional loans.
(14:11):
That's been huge, that'sgetting more and more.
SAMBASSADOR (14:19):
You're good with that Totally.
JONATHAN MILLER (14:25):
The funny thing about it is and totally being
transparent here, I get $150 todo that.
SAMBASSADOR (14:29):
That's what we get paid for.
JONATHAN MILLER (14:30):
You're not making any money on that we're
not making any money on it atall it's a total pass through
and basically we get paid $150to connect the dots and handle
the paperwork, connect it withthe bank and we pass it on over
and it's just a bank loan.
That's all.
It is Nothing fancy.
I always tell people if theyhave got a really good
relationship with their bankerand they have got a plan, go for
(14:52):
it, Go do it.
TYLER SHULTZ (14:53):
No problem.
JONATHAN MILLER (14:54):
But this is basically.
We've got a set of people withthe bank that we're set up with
that you know, a set of peoplethat just know what trailers and
mules are.
TYLER SHULTZ (15:04):
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (15:05):
And they've got.
JONATHAN MILLER (15:06):
I have no idea how many, you know 100 units
that we've got financed over thelast couple of years, over the
last six, eight years now withthem and they love it and,
honestly, like I just had a, youknow we just met, we were it's
been a couple months ago, wewere, you know, Tyler and I had
actually met with the bank again.
TYLER SHULTZ (15:27):
Just kind of catch up it was right at the time
Tyler started.
JONATHAN MILLER (15:29):
I'm like, hey, let's go up, sit down with these
guys, and at that time theytold us they had not had a
single bad experience.
Wow, and I know I've beencopying on an email since then.
SAMBASSADOR (15:41):
I'm not sure how that all worked out.
Don't ever want to get copiedin emails.
JONATHAN MILLER (15:45):
Or no, actually I take that back.
I got sent an email so I taggedTyler on it.
SAMBASSADOR (15:49):
Oh my gosh, so I was the guy, Poor Tyler's, the
guy that got copied.
I'm like hey.
TYLER SHULTZ (15:53):
Tyler could you take care of this?
JONATHAN MILLER (15:55):
one here and see what she can do.
But what I'm saying is theylike it.
SAMBASSADOR (15:59):
They really like it .
And so, they've been doing somereally good rates and they're
just really good to work with.
Yeah, I know, in let me think aminute 2014, when I went into
my local bank that I'd beenbanking with for 15 years.
You know I went in there andyou know I told them you try to
explain to them that, hey, Ineed this piece of equipment and
(16:21):
you know it's a little machinethat looks a little bit like a
forklift but it does this andmoves buildings, and you know,
and I want $18,000.
Yeah, you know, now they're atsome 55, you know, and I wanted
18.
She's like you're going to haveto explain this a little better
to me.
You know, how can this littlemachine cost so much money,
exactly?
And I'm like, well, don't lookat it that way, look at the
amount of money it's going tomake us.
(16:43):
You know, not everybody has theability to go in a bank and
have that credibility set up towhere, basically, she told me
she'll give it to me because sheknows me.
JONATHAN MILLER (16:52):
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (16:53):
You know, so we have to have better options out
there.
I love the fact that youactually promote your leasing
side as a short-term fix.
You know, do this work on itand get out of it.
Yep, you know and I love thatpart of it I don't think
(17:14):
sometimes I feel like we need towork, like I can help you work
better on that part.
That it's you know we're.
It's the nature of the beast,that it is what it is, but don't
let it become a crutch to you.
Yeah, it can, yeah, it can, itcan.
JONATHAN MILLER (17:32):
Yeah, don't let it become a crutch to you yeah,
it can, yeah it can, it can,and you know it can be and it
can actually be successful doingthat.
I've had guys where you knowit's going to be short-term and
then you know, six months downthe road, instead of paying that
, instead of, you know,switching that, or paying that
off.
We add another piece, andanother piece, and another piece
(17:53):
.
It truly works.
You know, yeah, but, but it butjust be careful like you know,
like Tyler saying you know yournumbers, know where you're at
yeah, and just because I meanbecause it is easy.
It is easy like if I mean if youcall Tyler and you've got a
piece of equipment, he can havethe money wired this afternoon
and say you know, send you thepaperwork, sign it and go, and
it is way easier than setting upan appointment next week with a
banker and trying to figure outwhat you're going to do and, um
(18:14):
, that's, that's exactly what I.
SAMBASSADOR (18:17):
One of the things I wanted to get at yet, was the
fact that our equipment moves sofast.
Yeah, that by the time you goin and talk to your bank and
they talk to their people, andtheir people talk back to them,
and by the time it comes, theequipment's gone.
Yeah, we've seen this happen somany times over and over.
You know, and that's a point Iwanted to make was the fact that
(18:38):
you guys can move fairly fast.
JONATHAN MILLER (18:40):
Yeah, I mean, we can like.
I've seen you guys move in mostcases within a couple of hours.
Seriously, it can be done.
And if it's equipment, you know, if it's trailers and stuff,
we'll put the tags on andeverything Like it'll be ready
to go.
Like we can make it happen, getyou on the road and you're
going Yep, and so it's a hugeadvantage in some of those cases
(19:02):
.
SHED GEEK (19:02):
I'm curious at your thoughts on like because you are
so knowledgeable about theequipment side, but also the
building side.
Where do you think finance has?
JONATHAN MILLER (19:22):
its place in the structures side, and is that
something you guys do or planto?
So, we're actually currentlyusing the same bank with
buildings, but it's on a muchsmaller level.
I think it has its place.
I don't think.
I think the dollar amounts areso much lower that there's not
(19:42):
as much difference, and maybethat's just my perspective.
It probably is because, youknow, on the one minute we're
talking about $150,000.
The next minute we're talkingabout $10,000.
I'm saying, well, you save$1,000.
Who cares?
But it's $1,000.
SAMBASSADOR (19:51):
Yeah, there is a big difference there.
JONATHAN MILLER (19:53):
You know, if the customer saves money, that's
what they want, and so I thinkthere's definitely a need for it
and a market for it.
But it's not something we'redoing in-house currently, but it
is something we're working withthe same bank actually and um,
but it's always it's likeprobably like a lot of guys are
doing, you know, dabbling withit, and RTO National does pretty
(20:16):
good at it actually like doingthe whole thing together.
Most companies don't do thewhole thing together, and so
it's so it's like here's asecondary option you do it, but
it's not.
It's just not very smooth and umand so, whereas everybody
pretty much now, if you're gonnahey, your same point of sale
system, whatever else you got,just fill it out.
(20:36):
It's so easy.
It's so easy, just do it.
But I would like to see more ofit.
I don't see it at all ascompeting with the rent down
market, with the rent downmarket, like I think it's.
I think in the same way, if ithelps the customer.
I mean every time, in all ofthese situations, if the
(20:58):
customer wins, we win, like ittruly works that way.
SHED GEEK (21:02):
Like that's like 100% of the time that's what happens
, and sometimes that means wemake less money on one deal, but
in the big picture it's alwaysbetter that way, I'm always
looking so like we haven'treally put a whole lot out there
publicly yet and I can't go outwith my means and start a whole
finance program, but I've donea really good job of like
(21:25):
partnering with people and onething I found real quick was
like there's just not thatappetite for those, typically
for those FICO scores that are500, 600, 650.
You know you get to about 680.
You know that's where you knowyou're getting good prime credit
.
You know they typically gotgood debt to income.
(21:45):
But I mean you see what happenswith, like these big banks.
You know, and what's theaverage home I don't know Home
of a hoarding?
Yeah, $400,000,.
JONATHAN MILLER (21:57):
I don't know.
That's what the average isright now.
SHED GEEK (21:59):
But you know so there's much bigger fish in the
pond for these banks that to goafter an unsecured loan, you
know, for $6,000, $10,000,$12,000, they don't have a big
appetite.
And so, a lot of people justsit back and say and we could
probably have a whole podcastover this rent-to-own is
expensive, we need anotheroption.
(22:20):
We've got to start with themisnomer of rent-to-own being
expensive and we can do that.
And if you don't know, go backand listen to Richard Miller's
(22:41):
podcast episode.
That'll solve that for you.
But you know it.
It's one of those things whereit's like until it gets
competitive.
Yeah, like rent to own is, inmy opinion, that the deal starts
working out best for theconsumer, because you're just
not going to get someone withstress strained or poor credit
and credit history getting aprime rate at a low credit score
.
So, until banks get competitive.
But it has to start somewhere,yeah, and like until some more
people jump into and it willtake its tole a bit on RTO,
(23:03):
because it can have, you know,you can have more customers, but
I think it's really just amatter of like doing what's best
for your customer.
JONATHAN MILLER (23:12):
Yeah, If you do that, Sam and I have had this
conversation.
Sam has bugged me and says hey,you know, we've got to come up
with something on equipmentbetween doing leases and finance
.
There's got to be some middleground.
Yeah, and I'm not sayingthere's not.
I mean I'm not saying that'snot possible, but there
obviously hasn't been.
For myself just hasn't been alot of appetite for it, because
(23:35):
I know what happens on theequipment.
I know what happens and Samknows what happens sometimes.
SHED GEEK (23:40):
It gets beat up.
JONATHAN MILLER (23:42):
Yeah, I mean, we deal like no.
SHED GEEK (23:45):
It is disappointing they leave them sitting on the
side of the interstate inGeorgia.
TYLER SHULTZ (23:49):
Oh boy.
SAMBASSADOR (23:52):
We just opened up a can of worms.
JONATHAN MILLER (23:55):
But if we do a really good job at helping those
people phase us out or keepthem educated, it works really
well.
It really works really well andI'll be honest over the last
four you know, four years, sinceyou know, I like the way Tyler
said that.
I mean he's one of the 2020group, but you know, through
(24:17):
this last four years, this isnot it's the 90-10% deal, but it
might even have been higherthan 10% over the last four
years.
There's more bad apples outthere and we've found some of
them.
SAMBASSADOR (24:32):
Oh yeah, you will Yep, and so
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SHED GEEK (26:19):
What about these theft rings Like I mean should
we?
We can edit all that.
I'm just saying what about likethis, I mean all these rumors.
What about all these rumors oflike you know all the buildings
going missing and organizedtheft and things like that, and
how can you protect against that?
I mean, those are conversationsthat I didn't hear 12 years ago
(26:42):
, didn't hear five years ago andI don't think I heard three
years ago, like wow, I meanspotty stuff was happening three
years ago probably.
JONATHAN MILLER (26:51):
Yeah, but I've seen a lot more.
And I mean, obviously we've hadit on equipment too.
Yeah, just for the record.
SAMBASSADOR (27:00):
I've seen it back in 2016, 2017, and that's
already seven years ago.
It's a little hard to believe2017, 2017.
Yeah, that's true, but therewas very much organized theft
going on with sheds.
SHED GEEK (27:14):
They just had three buildings go missing from
Highland, Illinois.
Yeah, I saw that on the pagelast week.
JONATHAN MILLER (27:20):
So, I had posted that Martin's had three
missing, but there was Millersat Arthur had another two or
three on that same lot.
Wow, got pulled off over theweekend yeah that's wild it's
crazy yes um, I mean we were fora while there.
Yeah, we weren't too worriedabout it, but we've been.
We've been more concernedbecause we've had stuff yeah,
(27:42):
you know it's, it's um.
SAMBASSADOR (27:44):
So, you know what?
What you guys were talking backand forth about a little bit
about why would a lendingcompany lend 10 grand out on
something when they can lend oneguy 250 grand instead of having
to have 25 guys?
It's always more risk to dothat.
But going to any little townthat has I don't know, I'm going
(28:05):
to shoot a wild number here15,000 people in it and you'll
find four small financecompanies, the Green Trees,
whatever they are.
JONATHAN MILLER (28:12):
First, Franklin , all those little guys,
something's happening.
SAMBASSADOR (28:17):
Those guys aren't just loaning out.
You know they're doing thelittle.
Well, I don't back when I wasusing them to sell sheds.
You know doing the little.
What I don't back when I wasusing them to sell sheds, you
know the branch manager couldapprove up to 6 500 bucks
without anything, and thatcovered most of my sheds.
I forgot about that.
JONATHAN MILLER (28:32):
We were using American General for a while.
Yeah, they were one of those,so those guys were doing that.
SAMBASSADOR (28:37):
So, there is there's somebody's picking up
that piece of the pie and usingit.
But I know for me personally,if I can have one client at
$250,000 versus 10 of them at$25,000 or 25 of them at $10,000
, which way am I going to go?
So, I don't know.
It's a little bit.
(28:58):
So, you have to make a littlebetter money on those smaller
ones to cover your risk, becauseyou have more risk.
You have 10 times more people.
SHED GEEK (29:09):
That's something that will probably surprise people
and, Jonathan, I know you couldspeak to that in the RTO world
that would probably blow thesocks off of most people the
amount of risk versus the rewardthat you actually make, because
there's been some obviouslysuccessful RTO companies and
like they can push dollarsaround and things like that.
But uh, you might be surprisedat what they had to go through
(29:32):
to get to where they are becauseit's yeah there's a lot of risk
out there, and it doesn't takebut one bad apple to really run
an RTO company.
SAMBASSADOR (29:40):
Yeah, you can, yeah you know, you can have a, you
can have a pretty strongrent-to-own company and if they
run into that one bad deal, itchanges in a hurry.
Well, and there's no regulation, have you?
SHED GEEK (29:51):
noticed there's no regulation.
Me and Dennis were talking aboutthat no there's no regulation
to sign people up, and I thinkRTO companies were just as bad
as the other companies who arelike, hey, I'm tired of this
dealer, bring me your.
The other companies who arelike, hey, I'm tired of this
dealer, bring me your.
I think RTO companies are thesame way, like oh, that guy
couldn't service you, you knowlike we'll take you on and
there's no to me.
(30:11):
That's where the NBSR I knowyou can't make a blacklist and
all that stuff.
I know there's some legalitiesand I don't need Edwin breathing
down my neck or anything, youknow.
So, I'm not trying to stir upanything.
So, I'm not trying to stir upanything I'm just saying it
seems like that's where we coulddo a better job of coming
together to eliminate thosedealers and customers who
default.
Not just default, but they'rethieves, thieves.
SAMBASSADOR (30:33):
Thank you, I was going to say troublesome.
You can cut that out.
No, it's just calling it whatit is but yeah, no, you're right
, what it is.
JONATHAN MILLER (30:46):
Yeah, you know, and um, but um, yeah, no,
you're right, and I, I think, Ithink, though I've you know from
my, from my side, and I'm notfrom, yeah, from a business side
big picture.
We haven't been trying to takeover the world, like a lot of
these guys have been over thelast five years and um, but even
those that have been trying tosee what all they can do, the
appetite has really softenedover the last year.
SAMBASSADOR (31:06):
Oh, thank you, that's a very recognizable point
.
JONATHAN MILLER (31:11):
I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean so it's gone from whereand obviously we've seen it on
equipment, so like, if we lookat the whole industry, shannon's
biting his lip.
SHED GEEK (31:23):
I'll go as far, as far to say if you are signing up
with an RTO company, you needto understand.
This is going to get me introuble isn't it?
SAMBASSADOR (31:33):
I can feel it.
You feel the Holy Spirit everytime you shut your mouth.
SHED GEEK (31:37):
It doesn't mean they have money.
It means they have access tomoney.
SAMBASSADOR (31:42):
in most cases, Okay , but even take it a step
further.
Some do, some do have money.
It means they have access tomoney in most cases.
Yeah, okay, but even take it astep.
Some do, some do have money.
SHED GEEK (31:50):
I'm saying I get that , yeah, you know what I mean.
But in most cases you haveaccess to money, so it's still
back to a know your numbers game.
Yeah, because if you don't, andthey hitting one down, one down
payment 60 months on 97% oftheir contracts.
They're trying to sell off a$10 million portfolio.
And you're like you just handedme a bunch of junk contracts or
(32:13):
immature contracts.
That's why the banks arepulling back because you're
trying to grow at such a rapidpace.
It's like the guy that wasmaking $25,000 making $100,000.
You need those years ofstruggle because the bank's
going to yank their money and Idon't want to get in trouble.
(32:34):
I'm not trying to call anyoneout or anything like that, it's
just, yeah, I mean, privateequity is still a good thing.
Just saying and I'm far frombeing super knowledgeable about
this, I'm learning every day,Jonathan, so like you could
school me on all of this, no,you're on the right track there.
JONATHAN MILLER (32:52):
I mean you're, I think it is like I just you
know.
Basically, where I was going is.
So, you're talking about how torent to own companies.
Maybe we could do a better jobof actually weeding out dealers
and stuff.
What I'm saying is flip thecoin a little bit, though, too.
If you're the dealer, which youpretty much said it for me if
you're the dealer, be carefulwho you sign up with too,
(33:17):
because you want a system thatworks, and it's just been.
Everybody's been struggling abit more Ask questions Vet the
process.
SHED GEEK (33:26):
You know what I mean.
Like gosh find a consultationgroup somewhere and ask them to
kind of help guide you, orsomething that's not a Facebook
page.
Right, good point.
SAMBASSADOR (33:37):
Some nights I'm sitting there on my couch and
you know some guy gets on there.
Nobody has researched the guy.
Nobody knows the guy.
You know he's Mr.
, I don't I can't use any name,because every name I bring up,
it refers to somebody.
You can use my name.
But yeah, okay, Mr.
Jonathan comes on, says hey, Ineed a rent dome company.
Well, somebody came here and 15companies get listed and I'm
(34:01):
sitting there and I'm like whatare we doing?
Like we're going to give areference over the phone and
we've seen this.
They go sign the guy up withoutever doing any.
You know calling anybody.
Have you used another rent-downcompany before?
Or you know why are you lookingfor one?
Oh no, you've got to use thiscompany.
It's like when you know you seethis on my personal page when
(34:22):
they ask about where they shouldgo to church, yes, and I'm like
did you ever think about askingthe Lord where you should go to
church instead of the communitypage and everybody's?
like oh you got to go herebecause they have the best kids
program anybody has.
SHED GEEK (34:36):
Or you got to go over here because we have better
worship service.
My favorite on that is alwayslike, yeah, we can't, we don't
want to go here because theydon't have a good program.
I'm like you ever consider thelord's calling you to start a
kids program, you know?
Or?
SAMBASSADOR (34:45):
like I'll be honest with you.
Um, you know, I heard a pastoron Thursday night just flat out
tell a group of 200 men you knowwhat.
We need to back off on kidsprograms.
SHED GEEK (34:55):
We need to focus on men's programs oh, man, and I
want to stand up amen get themen to church.
You typically get the familyright yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (35:03):
Yeah, but we have that backwards.
You get the family and you'llget the men.
I've heard that from the pulpit.
And it's the same way.
You know it's.
I don't there again.
I hate legislation, but it'slike you can literally just walk
into an office and sign a guyup on a rental.
You know, that's one thing Davewas really good at, though
Miller yeah, Dave Miller, he'spicky about his paperwork.
SHED GEEK (35:28):
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (35:28):
You know, you don't just give him a million-dollar
check and say here, go invest mymoney.
He's like whoa, whoa, whoa.
We're going to sign some papers.
SHED GEEK (35:37):
Addressing your Facebook comment.
I must be just ready to end mycareer.
Today, it's a popularitycontest.
SAMBASSADOR (35:46):
Yes, yeah, a hundred percent.
SHED GEEK (35:48):
It's a popularity contest.
SAMBASSADOR (35:50):
On the church or the rent-to-own company yeah, or
the manufacturer.
SHED GEEK (35:54):
I think some people are like I'm genuinely happy, I
want to refer my company.
SAMBASSADOR (35:59):
Oh, I'm not saying that.
Yeah, I agree.
You know what I mean.
SHED GEEK (36:02):
I believe that to be true, but typically speaking,
it's like it becomes and it'slike wait a minute, we're not in
this for popularity contest.
Honestly, a lot of goodcompanies typically get
mentioned, just like a lot ofgood equipment options, or you
know what I mean.
Like whatever it is.
Uh, uh, you know we we've triednot to make an enemy out of any
of our competition in marketing.
TYLER SHULTZ (36:25):
Yeah.
SHED GEEK (36:26):
Because we're just like, hey, it'd be better to be
friends with them.
Because this is what happens.
Jonathan, tell me I'm wrong.
Hey, we're thinking aboutleaving our marketing company
and coming over to you guys, soI'm supposed to get giddy and
all excited that you're comingover until I don't investigate
and find out what's going on,because I know who you're coming
from and they're a good company.
(36:47):
Why are you leaving?
Why are you leaving?
They're a pretty good company.
JONATHAN MILLER (36:51):
I'm gonna have to dive into that a little bit
because you're 100 bucks cheaper.
They're gonna leave you againonce you're 100 bucks well, or
if they're leaving because of asimple misunderstanding.
SHED GEEK (36:59):
They're gonna leave us too.
We're going to last very long.
So I mean, it's the same withrto.
It's the same as if you leaveone of the one who you're with
selling sheds right now,especially if you're on a
consignment lot.
Like I said, I might as welljust quit today.
I don't know what you.
Somebody slips up in my drinkor what, but I'm normally never
(37:22):
this so from now on, we're justgoing to refer cardinal leasing.
SAMBASSADOR (37:23):
Yeah, it's going to be tyler, though, because Slip
something in my drink or what,but I'm normally never this
loose on my tongue.
JONATHAN MILLER (37:27):
So, from now on , we're just going to refer
Cardinal Leasing to everything.
It's going to be Tyler, though,because Tyler had this funny
joke.
This is actually hilarious.
When we were talking, we weretalking about slow times in the
winter and stuff so he hadmentioned that he switched and
started hauling for this localcompany and I don't even know
who this is, so I'm not going tomention any names.
So, he switched and startedhauling for this local company.
SAMBASSADOR (37:46):
And I don't even know who this is, so I'm not
going to mention any names, sohopefully I won't get myself in
trouble.
Oh, now you're going to burnyour bridges.
JONATHAN MILLER (37:50):
Maybe I shouldn't say this no, we're
going.
Okay.
So, he said for three years hehauled for this company and
every winter they were busy andit's like that's weird.
SAMBASSADOR (38:02):
Well, he said, every winter we changed hands
stands.
TYLER SHULTZ (38:04):
well, that's a good point.
SAMBASSADOR (38:06):
You can't do it in the summertime, you're too busy,
exactly so you have to do it.
They started to get stable thisyear, so I needed to find I was
worried, something else to do.
Yeah, I'm worried about winterwork.
No, winter work.
SHED GEEK (38:18):
Yeah, I would much rather pick up a client on my
merits and on the things wequalify with in a cool, calm and
collected matter.
I'd never really.
It's almost a red flagimmediately for them to call
them up and be like thiscompany's you know messing me
around over here and you're likemaybe, yeah, might be true, it
(38:40):
might be true.
SAMBASSADOR (38:42):
Well, okay, so part of that's just you're gaining
wisdom as you go along, andthat's part of life.
We should all be going throughthat.
Yeah, you know, I've learnednot to do some of the same stuff
.
SHED GEEK (38:58):
True.
SAMBASSADOR (38:58):
Yeah, Like I won't tell somebody not to go buy a
Ford anymore, I'll tell them togo find out if there's a good
Ford dealership in their town,which there's not going to be.
JONATHAN MILLER (39:06):
But they have to go find that out.
I wonder where this is going.
SAMBASSADOR (39:11):
But you know it's the same.
We see guys come in, you knowand I hate to use the fact that
we've been around a long time,but after you've been around a
while, you just it start.
The experience starts stackingup and it's like
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SAMBASSADOR (41:11):
you know and you don't.
JONATHAN MILLER (41:12):
We don't need more experience, we've already
had no, I don't want anymore andyou don't want done and you
don't want other people to gothrough some of the things that
you've gone through.
SAMBASSADOR (41:20):
But then other times I look at them.
I'm like you know what, just gothat route, that's.
You know, that's fine um yeah,sometimes you just gotta yeah,
and I do believe you are right.
I feel like 99 of the time thereferrals are given from people
who are excited about whothey're referring.
SHED GEEK (41:39):
And you hope so, and.
SAMBASSADOR (41:40):
I like to see that.
SHED GEEK (41:41):
Even if they're referring my company.
I'm always kind of like hey,make sure you're happy with us,
Does that?
SAMBASSADOR (41:47):
anonymous button still work on your page.
Yeah, I might just go on thereand be like instead of y'all
referring programs to me, who doyou not refer?
JONATHAN MILLER (41:57):
I love that.
Be careful man.
No, I was like.
SHED GEEK (42:03):
Well, I would go far enough to say probably don't get
your referral from Facebook.
SAMBASSADOR (42:08):
Well, that's my point.
SHED GEEK (42:09):
Matter of fact.
If you do, and if you do seenames on there, call every one
of them.
SAMBASSADOR (42:14):
Yeah.
SHED GEEK (42:15):
Call every one of them and interview every one of
them.
SAMBASSADOR (42:19):
You know, my favorite answer has now become
there's multiple ones.
SHED GEEK (42:23):
Oh, even call the ones not listed.
SAMBASSADOR (42:25):
Yeah, you have to find the one that fits you.
Why would you make such animportant decision based off of
one phone call?
SHED GEEK (42:31):
Yeah, or one recommendation on a Facebook
post or something.
They're pretty good pretty muchanymore.
SAMBASSADOR (42:37):
You can have a firestorm in about three hours.
If you ask for some, they'regoing to give you, you know yeah
, what's kind of interesting is.
JONATHAN MILLER (42:44):
Early on you said, yeah, I've been on your
Facebook page for a long timeand I have, but I but I bet, if
you would like.
I'm not a social media person.
Yeah and um, probably.
If you go back and look, Iwonder if I put 10 posts on the
Shed haulers page total, or 20maybe.
SAMBASSADOR (42:58):
I doubt it, but I like to listen.
JONATHAN MILLER (43:00):
I can actually look.
You should look just out ofcuriosity.
SHED GEEK (43:04):
I just want to tell everybody who's ever recommended
our services on any of those,if you've done it out of pure
like satisfaction for what we'vedone, thank you, and the check
is in the mail.
SAMBASSADOR (43:18):
I knew he was going somewhere with this because
there was no way he was gettingout of that one.
SHED GEEK (43:26):
Wait a minute.
Where's my check?
It's in the mail.
It's in the mail.
SAMBASSADOR (43:32):
That's back to that Kentucky mail that never seems
to reach South Carolina Exactly.
Oh, that's great.
SHED GEEK (43:38):
This conversation is great because it's like I don't
feel like I'm.
You know, I realize a lot ofpeople are going to listen to
this, but sometimes I feel likeI'm just talking with just the
four of us.
The mic just caught it, butsome of those things need to be
said, it's okay.
JONATHAN MILLER (43:52):
But I haven't been talking too much.
We haven't heard Tyler too muchyet.
SHED GEEK (43:54):
We haven't he kind of snuck.
SAMBASSADOR (43:56):
Well, no, he didn't completely sneak out what?
SHED GEEK (43:58):
questions do you guys have?
SAMBASSADOR (44:08):
I need to be quiet.
I was supposed to be gone, yeah, no, we're all good.
I don't have the nerve, you do,to get out there that people
know about.
What do you want to ask?
Or, you know, put your plug in.
This is your free plug.
You pay for the regular plug,so you're doing good at that, I
love it, you got that one on me.
TYLER SHULTZ (44:32):
Yeah, I got that one on you.
SHED GEEK (44:33):
Pressure's on you, I'm sorry.
We're all looking at you likecome on, you got to do it.
TYLER SHULTZ (44:40):
No, I would be happy to help anybody that's
looking to get equipment used ornew.
We'll do our best to help theindustry move forward.
SAMBASSADOR (44:52):
And, yeah, we look forward to working with you and
normally I would ask for yourinformation, but your commercial
will be on this episodesomewhere.
JONATHAN MILLER (44:57):
So, just go back and listen to the.
Cardinal Leasing and you'llhave all the info, you'll hear
Sam talk and you can click.
SHED GEEK (45:04):
You can even click on the newsletter when it goes out
.
JONATHAN MILLER (45:07):
It goes straight to their website.
SHED GEEK (45:09):
So if you need to find out where to find
information, sign up for thenewsletter.
You'll see it.
TYLER SHULTZ (45:15):
And we have tried to make our just now.
This last week we finally gotour application process for the
traditional loan.
SAMBASSADOR (45:26):
You can do it on your phone now instead of having
to print it out.
Nice, so you can like, send outa link or whatever and they can
just do it right on there.
How did they find it?
TYLER SHULTZ (45:33):
It's on the website.
It's on the website.
It's on the website, or I cansend you a link on an email or
you can send a link on the email.
JONATHAN MILLER (45:38):
That's pretty cool on the traditional site and
it's just about a one.
If we send the paper copy out,it's literally one page.
TYLER SHULTZ (45:46):
It's not like a typical bank loan.
JONATHAN MILLER (45:57):
Because again and just shed hauling stuff
mules for us, and so basicallyit's like this is all you need,
it's one page.
TYLER SHULTZ (46:04):
Yeah, that's cool.
JONATHAN MILLER (46:04):
They don't need your whole life history and
three of your children andwhatever else they might need to
go with it.
It's really simple.
SHED GEEK (46:10):
Quick response time and boom, you know, and you can
be in a trailer that day, almostAlmost, yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (46:17):
I don't know why, like I honestly thought earlier
this year we would see a decline.
So, there is a lot of equipmentout there that's been available
for quite a while, but it's notchoice equipment.
Choice equipment stilldisappears in a hurry and, as
you guys well know, know, a lotof it's not even making the
(46:38):
equipment page right now.
Yeah, it's selling before itever gets there.
Um, I've got two guys right nowthat I'm hawk like they.
They know I was gonna be herethis weekend.
They're like keep your earsopen if you know of anything
that's possibly for sale upthere.
You know, let us know.
We're looking for stuff andit's.
It's crazy, yeah, how it justkeeps right on text while we was
(47:00):
.
SHED GEEK (47:00):
While we was here you know this guy he's selling a
mule.
Just want to make sure he'sstraight up yeah yeah, I don't
know him, but I'll ask aroundyou know what I mean like that's
yeah, yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (47:09):
Well, we've had some guys get burnt pretty bad
on that side too, and you knowwhat?
I'll always come back to this.
If you get burnt on somethingand I find out that you didn't
ask me about it, sorry, can'thelp you.
You could have asked somequestions.
I don't know everybody, don'tget me wrong.
I'll tell you if I don't, butask.
Yeah, I'd be even more insaneGo ahead.
TYLER SHULTZ (47:30):
Tyler.
No, go ahead, Tyler, back tothe know your numbers, though.
When you're looking at usedequipment, please check new
equipment prices before buyingthe used equipment, because
there have been some mules beingadvertised used for more
expensive than new mules we'regoing for right now Are mules
called up.
SAMBASSADOR (47:50):
right now Can you pretty much get a mule pretty
quick.
Pretty much, because the reasonfor that was I'll pay $5,000
more to get a mule today versusgetting one in 90 days because I
can make the $5,000 in 90 days.
TYLER SHULTZ (48:02):
Last I knew they had everything in stock except
maybe the 7040s, but the 7040swas like a couple weeks out.
JONATHAN MILLER (48:10):
Yeah, and that was coming directly from
Cardinal.
But some of the others, like Idon't know what WKM or Pine Hill
, what those guys have got, Idon't know if they've got any
inventory?
Right now.
But yeah, they're prettyavailable, so we're catching up
a little bit Actually catchingup.
SAMBASSADOR (48:23):
That's good, that's really good.
JONATHAN MILLER (48:25):
Yeah, and because yeah, I think actually
today, I think time in four orfive years, that there were
actually machines available thatyou could get.
SAMBASSADOR (48:40):
So, if you guys don't know Jonathan personally,
you need to get to know him oh,I thought he's gonna say thank
you.
TYLER SHULTZ (48:47):
No, he's, you're doing good I'm still looking for
these checks.
SAMBASSADOR (49:02):
I feel like you're a little bit like me.
You show up at all the events.
You're open, you love talkingto your people.
I feel like your heart's in theindustry.
Your family's always on boardwith you.
I love your family to death.
I can't say enough good aboutyour family.
You put me in the hospitalalmost, but your wife bailed me
(49:25):
from that so it ended up she'sover there.
JONATHAN MILLER (49:29):
What did he just say?
So the only time I ever gotCOVID.
SAMBASSADOR (49:32):
I got it from this guy.
SHED GEEK (49:33):
You were in.
SAMBASSADOR (49:34):
Marion.
JONATHAN MILLER (49:35):
Yeah, I was in Marion.
Charlene has to run down toKentucky to pick him up.
SAMBASSADOR (49:38):
And I'm like uh off in La La.
JONATHAN MILLER (49:41):
Land.
We're going to have to haulthis kid off to the hospital.
He's not going anywhere himself.
So she goes and picks him upand drags him back.
SAMBASSADOR (49:47):
I actually feel like, other than the part of
being isolated, which is nuts,other than that, I feel like I
handled it fairly well, andthat's mostly thanks to your
lovely wife.
SHED GEEK (49:57):
I'll throw a plug in here too, as if we haven't done
enough already.
But you know, one thank you forsponsoring.
And two, like we'recapitalistic here at the podcast
, Like guess who we're going topromote?
We're going to promote thosewho sponsor.
So, I'm encouraging otherpeople to sponsor.
But we want to be fair and wewill be fair, but right now I
(50:24):
mean we're pushing everybodyyour way.
So, I mean, like that's acompetitive advantage that you
get whenever you do spend money,whether Sam brought you or not.
SAMBASSADOR (50:34):
You know what I mean.
Oh boy, here we go again.
All right, thank you forlistening to another episode of
the Shed Geek Podcast BeforeShannon actually burns his house
down any further than he everhas.
SHED GEEK (50:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
SAMBASSADOR (50:47):
No, it's all good.
It's always a pleasure to hangout.
Maybe we'll get a hunting tripin together somewhere before we
both keel over dead.
Yeah, we need to do that.
I heard that that seems to be apopular thing around you lately
is to just keel over.
JONATHAN MILLER (51:02):
I'm out with Chase and they need to hold me
off.
SAMBASSADOR (51:06):
I didn't even get that in this episode.
But if you decide to go huntingwith a Kaufman, all I'm going
to say is you better have areally good pack mule to carry
you around or you better be inshape.
Yeah, because those Kaufmanboys they don't mess around,
that's right, they'll wear youout in a hurry.
JONATHAN MILLER (51:22):
They will wear you out, so yes.
SAMBASSADOR (51:25):
Thank you all for being on today.
Thank you guys out there inpodcast land for listening today
.
Thank you, Shannon, for beingwilling to join in today from
the Midwest Barbecue in IndianaAlways fun, Always fun.
Thank you guys.
Welcome back to part two of a two-part episode.
Be sure to go back and listento part one.
You might've missed something.
Hope you enjoy the conversationtoday.
I eavesdropped on aconversation out there between
two rigs today and they weretalking about you can't just
take a truck driver and make ashed hauler out of them.
(00:29):
You know, just because you're agood truck driver does not mean
you're a good shed hauler.
And it just hit me again thatit is a unique business model in
the fact that you have to haveyou got to know.
I mean, we learned today, yougot to learn how to deal with
customers yeah um, you got toknow how to drive a rig, you got
to know how to run a mule, yougot to know how to handle all
(00:51):
these different situations andyou got to know how to kind of
halfway tell what level is ornot.
Yeah, you know it's.
It's such a wide variety ofstuff you have to do that it
takes and the equipment makes iteasier.
Yeah.
So, I'm not particularly fondof telling somebody that they
(01:12):
can get into this business for50 grand.
I did.
But I don't think it's realsmart to tell somebody they can
do that and three months downthe road they're frustrated and
they lost 50.
Like if they would have spent150, they'd probably stay in
business.
So, I guess there's two sidesto the ditch I'm trying to say
yeah.
You know what I'm saying.
You can't, and if you gohauling for some of these
(01:35):
companies, these guys arehauling for you, have to have a
certain amount of equipment tohandle what they want you to do.
Yeah.
JONATHAN MILLER (01:42):
Yeah, you just really hardly can get started
for 50 anymore.
SAMBASSADOR (01:46):
No.
JONATHAN MILLER (01:47):
I mean, I mean, you're probably up comfortable.
You know, to be reasonable,realistic, you should be up
closer to 75 to 100.
Bottom line, on the bottom sideof it, to really get to really
be successful.
Otherwise you're going toreally and there are some niche.
There's some niche stuff thatyou can do If you're wanting to
(02:08):
move just custom buildings andor just and there's, and that's
a really good market too if youwant to move just movers and
stuff for anybody.
That can be done with less smalltrailer small mule and um, but
it's, but it's not going to besteady, like calling for a
company but um
SHED GEEK (02:21):
I wrote an article kind of leading to the
one-size-fits-all model and Iwas like you know, there's just
so many different ways you canbe successful.
I think that sometimes we fallvictim to being in the
one-size-fits-all, like whatyour experience was.
I'll tell you here's a goodexample.
We had this conversationearlier.
I didn't grow up in theAnabaptist community and I
(02:45):
remember when it hit me itmight've been Richard Miller
that said it, but someone saidit.
If you know one Amish person,you've met one Amish person.
JONATHAN MILLER (02:53):
If you are not Amish, everyone's Amish.
SHED GEEK (02:55):
They're the same but in the story right.
Same with Baptist, Pentecostal,you name it, whatever you go
through any denomination, butit's that way's that way in in
any company setting or anythingtoo, like I dealt with these
guys so like they're all thisway, or uh, this guy's a shed
hauler, so I need to do it thisway?
are we allowing ourselves toopen up even the possibility
(03:17):
that there's different options,not label everyone, that it has
to be this one size fits all,because there's a lot of guys
who are doing things that arevery unique and being successful
at them, but it goes along withyour point.
There's still a bare minimum insome ways that it seems you
need to get in, but maybe youdon't have to have the biggest
truck, the coolest truck, thenicest paint job, the best
(03:40):
wheels, everything decked outand all that right off the bat.
JONATHAN MILLER (03:44):
It's just hard, though.
If somebody's getting in,though, and they're getting
started and they don't have alot of experience or very little
experience, what they reallyneed is like Sam Sworey or
somebody like what you were justsaying, Tyler.
They need somebody to bouncestuff off of.
Oh yeah, because otherwise youcan do that.
Obviously, the type of stuffthat we deal with is like you
(04:07):
can still buy a trailer for$20,000.
And you can find some oldtrailers, but I've seen time and
time again where you know,instead of buying the $20,000
trailer, you buy the $50,000trailer and make way, way, way
more money.
SAMBASSADOR (04:21):
Oh yeah.
JONATHAN MILLER (04:29):
Because you can deliver twice as many buildings
and not be broke down.
But if you don't know thatcoming in, you're going to buy
something cheap that looks likeit might work.
TYLER SHULTZ (04:35):
And you're working on it all the time, oh yeah,
and then breakdowns.
The expensive part is the lostincome, not the parts.
100%.
SAMBASSADOR (04:43):
You lose more in lost income than you do fixing
whatever you're doing.
Now that part does go acrossthe trucking industry.
It's very seldom, unless you buya cat, then you're going to
spend so much money that itcosts more to fix the motor than
your downtime does or a Ford,or a Ford, or a ford um, it's
(05:10):
you going back to what you saidabout what you can haul with
that 53 foot trailer versus the36 foot trailer.
You know, um, you're pullingthe same thing down the road,
basically burning the same fuel.
It's very little more cost inpulling the extra, and the way a
lot of our systems are set upwith sheds right now, you get
paid to haul the extra shed.
It's like you were saying, andit's not just an extra shed a
(05:32):
month, it's an extra shed everycouple days and it adds up to a
lot of money.
I didn't, you know.
For me that was not an issue,it didn't make any difference.
Um, but that that is I don'tknow.
75, 80 percent of the shedswe're seeing hauled today are
being hauled on rigs where theyhave multiple sheds, and that
(05:53):
extra 16 foot adds up to anextra shed every couple days.
That's a big deal.
It's a huge deal.
Yeah, and they're hauling thema long ways, you know.
Look at another thing.
You see twice as many semis nowas you did.
TYLER SHULTZ (06:05):
Yeah, you know, it used to be mostly pickup trucks
and a couple random semis seemslike since I've started, there
is starting to be a big split inthe shed hauling.
There's the guys that aretrying to stay under cdl
regulations, and then everybodyelse is starting to head for
yeah personally, I don't thinkyou should be allowed to haul
oversize without having cdl, butI'll I get some agreement.
(06:28):
I also don't think you shouldbe able to pull uh camper
trailers without a cdl.
SAMBASSADOR (06:35):
Well, at least the big motor homes, like Jonathan
hasn't seen my wife on the motorhome.
Yeah, I know, I don't that thatdoesn't bother me so much you
know.
Yeah, I it's.
I hate regulations, but incertain things, if you're going
to have it anyway, like it, itjust.
(06:58):
It makes no sense to me how Ihave to have a commercial
driver's license to haul a35,000-pound down.
No, I'm going to get in trouble.
37,000-pound load down the road, but I don't have to to haul a
14 by 80 building.
That doesn't weigh enough.
You know what I'm saying,because there's a whole lot more
(07:19):
risk in the one than the other.
I don't know, it's just yes, Idon't know it's, it's just yes,
I don't like regulations.
SHED GEEK (07:26):
You think you could ever get like a uh state,
municipal or state worker on apodcast to talk about regulation
.
SAMBASSADOR (07:39):
Well, there's a guy in Columbia, South Carolina,
named Melvin, that I establisheda good enough relationship with
back in the mid-90s that Iprobably could, but he probably
wouldn't say anything that he'syou know.
He'd be like, well, I can'ttalk about that, or I can't talk
about this or whatever.
And I actually know a couple ofDOT guys.
There again, it'sinterpretation of law.
(08:00):
One DOT guy will tell you cando one thing, another one will
tell you something else.
That's why I fondly refer tothem as revenuers because,
that's all they are you pay theright amount of money, you can
do whatever you want to do.
It's all about the money Taxcollectors.
They're tax collectors.
I call them the externalInstead of the internal revenue
(08:21):
service.
They're the external revenueservice, that's all they are.
TYLER SHULTZ (08:25):
They.
They're the internal revenueservice, they're the external
revenue service.
That's all they are.
They contribute to some burnout.
SAMBASSADOR (08:27):
Oh yes, it does contribute to burnout.
Honestly, when I finally gotfed up and said I had enough was
after I had like three of themin a week from two different
drivers, me being one of them,and you know it was like we were
getting hit every day inFlorida for no reason whatsoever
and I'm like you know what?
(08:48):
I don't get paid enough to dothis.
I'm going to go find somethingelse to do.
SHED GEEK (08:53):
So, like when you get Like a ticket and it's like
your rig's not safe for ourroads, You're like your roads
are not safe for my rig.
SAMBASSADOR (09:01):
Yes, they don't like that answer for some reason
.
Sam can definitely speak tothat, living in South Carolina,
safe for my rig.
TYLER SHULTZ (09:05):
Good luck telling them that they don't like that
answer for some reason.
Sam can definitely speak tothat.
Living in South Carolina.
SAMBASSADOR (09:09):
We got three-bedroom apartments out in
the middle of 85.
They're just under the ground.
You fall in those suckers.
You can't get back out of them.
I will say this as bad as SouthCarolina is, I travel enough
that there are some other statesthat just make me thank the
good Lord that I live in SouthCarolina.
It's incredible.
Our road system is way outdated, for whatever that's worth.
(09:35):
Where do you want to go?
Where do you see CardinalLeasing going in the next five
years?
JONATHAN MILLER (09:45):
I don't have a good answer for that, to be
honest.
I mean, so I think that justfrom a big picture, from a
cardinal leasing side, equipmentfinancing, leasing the rent
down stuff we do, I'm not surewhat's going to change.
I don't.
(10:06):
I guess I honestly don't seeany real big change right now in
the, in the in the next fiveyears you brought Tyler on board
.
You're happy with where you'regoing yeah, I'm happy with where
we're going.
I, I my goal is to keep doing,seeing what we can do to better,
to somehow improve things alittle bit more, because I think
they're.
I just, I think the drivers.
You asked earlier about theweak link on the whole system
(10:28):
and I, I personally still thinkthe weakest link probably is
drivers like you know, Tylersaid driver burnout and that
that that really factors in.
But, um, you know, maybe thedrivers need an NBSRA type of
deal or something like that tohelp them.
I mean which you've got, theshed holders brotherhood, but I
don't know how active that likehow many guys, you've got in
that, but to somehow get moreguys pulling together to know
(10:51):
where they need to be and to besuccessful.
SAMBASSADOR (10:56):
Well, you mentioned education, and that's something
I think we need to startworking on.
JONATHAN MILLER (11:01):
I think it's huge yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (11:02):
Yeah, it's.
I see a lot of guys.
I see a lot of success storiesbecause I hear about them behind
the scenes, but there's a lotof guys that fall through the
cracks.
Oh yeah, that the problem.
The problem is in order to be agood shed hauler, you don't
want to listen to anybody else.
That know, the guy that has thegetter done, whatever it takes
(11:27):
attitude, doesn't tend to listenvery well to everybody else.
So, we have to come up with away to educate that makes
everybody all nice and warm andfuzzy, and that's something I
think we can work on in theindustry.
I love the fact that youbrought a hauler on board to
help with this.
JONATHAN MILLER (11:45):
I think for us that's been, you know that's
been, that's been, that's been.
That's huge.
Yeah, like I think.
And you know with Tyler, withhim hauling, you know spending
four years out there hauling ifguys are calling him to try to
figure out what a solution isfor them.
I mean he's, he's done that,he's been there done that and he
knows what they're dealing withand he knows how frustrating it
(12:07):
is when things aren't goinggood and so it makes it so much
easier.
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (13:28):
So, you mentioned something today that I knew
about but I don't think mostguys know about.
You're not just CardinalLeasing.
As far as leasing equipment,You're actually helping people
with finance side.
JONATHAN MILLER (13:39):
Yeah Now, you want to talk about that a little
bit?
Sure, I mean, I think that'syeah.
I don't know how many peopleknow about that.
SAMBASSADOR (13:46):
I know we haven't pushed it real hard.
JONATHAN MILLER (13:49):
But that is I don't know what number like if
we look over the last couple ofmonths.
Tyler, I don't know if you havea number off the top of your
head as far as quantity, but Iknow you know, if I look at the
numbers coming through and Idon't see all of them, but I
would say we do probably atleast a couple of loans a week
on an average, and I've seen itup to you know, three, four or
five loans a week with justconventional loans.
(14:11):
That's been huge, that'sgetting more and more.
SAMBASSADOR (14:19):
You're good with that Totally.
JONATHAN MILLER (14:25):
The funny thing about it is and totally being
transparent here, I get $150 todo that.
SAMBASSADOR (14:29):
That's what we get paid for.
JONATHAN MILLER (14:30):
You're not making any money on that we're
not making any money on it atall it's a total pass through
and basically we get paid $150to connect the dots and handle
the paperwork, connect it withthe bank and we pass it on over
and it's just a bank loan.
That's all.
It is Nothing fancy.
I always tell people if theyhave got a really good
relationship with their bankerand they have got a plan, go for
(14:52):
it, Go do it.
TYLER SHULTZ (14:53):
No problem.
JONATHAN MILLER (14:54):
But this is basically.
We've got a set of people withthe bank that we're set up with
that you know, a set of peoplethat just know what trailers and
mules are.
TYLER SHULTZ (15:04):
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (15:05):
And they've got.
JONATHAN MILLER (15:06):
I have no idea how many, you know 100 units
that we've got financed over thelast couple of years, over the
last six, eight years now withthem and they love it and,
honestly, like I just had a, youknow we just met, we were it's
been a couple months ago, wewere, you know, Tyler and I had
actually met with the bank again.
TYLER SHULTZ (15:27):
Just kind of catch up it was right at the time
Tyler started.
JONATHAN MILLER (15:29):
I'm like, hey, let's go up, sit down with these
guys, and at that time theytold us they had not had a
single bad experience.
Wow, and I know I've beencopying on an email since then.
SAMBASSADOR (15:41):
I'm not sure how that all worked out.
Don't ever want to get copiedin emails.
JONATHAN MILLER (15:45):
Or no, actually I take that back.
I got sent an email so I taggedTyler on it.
SAMBASSADOR (15:49):
Oh my gosh, so I was the guy, Poor Tyler's, the
guy that got copied.
I'm like hey.
TYLER SHULTZ (15:53):
Tyler could you take care of this?
JONATHAN MILLER (15:55):
one here and see what she can do.
But what I'm saying is theylike it.
SAMBASSADOR (15:59):
They really like it .
And so, they've been doing somereally good rates and they're
just really good to work with.
Yeah, I know, in let me think aminute 2014, when I went into
my local bank that I'd beenbanking with for 15 years.
You know I went in there andyou know I told them you try to
explain to them that, hey, Ineed this piece of equipment and
(16:21):
you know it's a little machinethat looks a little bit like a
forklift but it does this andmoves buildings, and you know,
and I want $18,000.
Yeah, you know, now they're atsome 55, you know, and I wanted
18.
She's like you're going to haveto explain this a little better
to me.
You know, how can this littlemachine cost so much money,
exactly?
And I'm like, well, don't lookat it that way, look at the
amount of money it's going tomake us.
(16:43):
You know, not everybody has theability to go in a bank and
have that credibility set up towhere, basically, she told me
she'll give it to me because sheknows me.
JONATHAN MILLER (16:52):
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (16:53):
You know, so we have to have better options out
there.
I love the fact that youactually promote your leasing
side as a short-term fix.
You know, do this work on itand get out of it.
Yep, you know and I love thatpart of it I don't think
(17:14):
sometimes I feel like we need towork, like I can help you work
better on that part.
That it's you know we're.
It's the nature of the beast,that it is what it is, but don't
let it become a crutch to you.
Yeah, it can, yeah, it can, itcan.
JONATHAN MILLER (17:32):
Yeah, don't let it become a crutch to you yeah,
it can, yeah it can, it can,and you know it can be and it
can actually be successful doingthat.
I've had guys where you knowit's going to be short-term and
then you know, six months downthe road, instead of paying that
, instead of, you know,switching that, or paying that
off.
We add another piece, andanother piece, and another piece
(17:53):
.
It truly works.
You know, yeah, but, but it butjust be careful like you know,
like Tyler saying you know yournumbers, know where you're at
yeah, and just because I meanbecause it is easy.
It is easy like if I mean if youcall Tyler and you've got a
piece of equipment, he can havethe money wired this afternoon
and say you know, send you thepaperwork, sign it and go, and
it is way easier than setting upan appointment next week with a
banker and trying to figure outwhat you're going to do and, um
(18:14):
, that's, that's exactly what I.
SAMBASSADOR (18:17):
One of the things I wanted to get at yet, was the
fact that our equipment moves sofast.
Yeah, that by the time you goin and talk to your bank and
they talk to their people, andtheir people talk back to them,
and by the time it comes, theequipment's gone.
Yeah, we've seen this happen somany times over and over.
You know, and that's a point Iwanted to make was the fact that
(18:38):
you guys can move fairly fast.
JONATHAN MILLER (18:40):
Yeah, I mean, we can like.
I've seen you guys move in mostcases within a couple of hours.
Seriously, it can be done.
And if it's equipment, you know, if it's trailers and stuff,
we'll put the tags on andeverything Like it'll be ready
to go.
Like we can make it happen, getyou on the road and you're
going Yep, and so it's a hugeadvantage in some of those cases
(19:02):
.
SHED GEEK (19:02):
I'm curious at your thoughts on like because you are
so knowledgeable about theequipment side, but also the
building side.
Where do you think finance has?
JONATHAN MILLER (19:22):
its place in the structures side, and is that
something you guys do or planto?
So, we're actually currentlyusing the same bank with
buildings, but it's on a muchsmaller level.
I think it has its place.
I don't think.
I think the dollar amounts areso much lower that there's not
(19:42):
as much difference, and maybethat's just my perspective.
It probably is because, youknow, on the one minute we're
talking about $150,000.
The next minute we're talkingabout $10,000.
I'm saying, well, you save$1,000.
Who cares?
But it's $1,000.
SAMBASSADOR (19:51):
Yeah, there is a big difference there.
JONATHAN MILLER (19:53):
You know, if the customer saves money, that's
what they want, and so I thinkthere's definitely a need for it
and a market for it.
But it's not something we'redoing in-house currently, but it
is something we're working withthe same bank actually and um,
but it's always it's likeprobably like a lot of guys are
doing, you know, dabbling withit, and RTO National does pretty
(20:16):
good at it actually like doingthe whole thing together.
Most companies don't do thewhole thing together, and so
it's so it's like here's asecondary option you do it, but
it's not.
It's just not very smooth and umand so, whereas everybody
pretty much now, if you're gonnahey, your same point of sale
system, whatever else you got,just fill it out.
(20:36):
It's so easy.
It's so easy, just do it.
But I would like to see more ofit.
I don't see it at all ascompeting with the rent down
market, with the rent downmarket, like I think it's.
I think in the same way, if ithelps the customer.
I mean every time, in all ofthese situations, if the
(20:58):
customer wins, we win, like ittruly works that way.
SHED GEEK (21:02):
Like that's like 100% of the time that's what happens
, and sometimes that means wemake less money on one deal, but
in the big picture it's alwaysbetter that way, I'm always
looking so like we haven'treally put a whole lot out there
publicly yet and I can't go outwith my means and start a whole
finance program, but I've donea really good job of like
(21:25):
partnering with people and onething I found real quick was
like there's just not thatappetite for those, typically
for those FICO scores that are500, 600, 650.
You know you get to about 680.
You know that's where you knowyou're getting good prime credit
.
You know they typically gotgood debt to income.
(21:45):
But I mean you see what happenswith, like these big banks.
You know, and what's theaverage home I don't know Home
of a hoarding?
Yeah, $400,000,.
JONATHAN MILLER (21:57):
I don't know.
That's what the average isright now.
SHED GEEK (21:59):
But you know so there's much bigger fish in the
pond for these banks that to goafter an unsecured loan, you
know, for $6,000, $10,000,$12,000, they don't have a big
appetite.
And so, a lot of people justsit back and say and we could
probably have a whole podcastover this rent-to-own is
expensive, we need anotheroption.
(22:20):
We've got to start with themisnomer of rent-to-own being
expensive and we can do that.
And if you don't know, go backand listen to Richard Miller's
(22:41):
podcast episode.
That'll solve that for you.
But you know it.
It's one of those things whereit's like until it gets
competitive.
Yeah, like rent to own is, inmy opinion, that the deal starts
working out best for theconsumer, because you're just
not going to get someone withstress strained or poor credit
and credit history getting aprime rate at a low credit score
.
So, until banks get competitive.
But it has to start somewhere,yeah, and like until some more
people jump into and it willtake its tole a bit on RTO,
(23:03):
because it can have, you know,you can have more customers, but
I think it's really just amatter of like doing what's best
for your customer.
JONATHAN MILLER (23:12):
Yeah, If you do that, Sam and I have had this
conversation.
Sam has bugged me and says hey,you know, we've got to come up
with something on equipmentbetween doing leases and finance
.
There's got to be some middleground.
Yeah, and I'm not sayingthere's not.
I mean I'm not saying that'snot possible, but there
obviously hasn't been.
For myself just hasn't been alot of appetite for it, because
(23:35):
I know what happens on theequipment.
I know what happens and Samknows what happens sometimes.
SHED GEEK (23:40):
It gets beat up.
JONATHAN MILLER (23:42):
Yeah, I mean, we deal like no.
SHED GEEK (23:45):
It is disappointing they leave them sitting on the
side of the interstate inGeorgia.
TYLER SHULTZ (23:49):
Oh boy.
SAMBASSADOR (23:52):
We just opened up a can of worms.
JONATHAN MILLER (23:55):
But if we do a really good job at helping those
people phase us out or keepthem educated, it works really
well.
It really works really well andI'll be honest over the last
four you know, four years, sinceyou know, I like the way Tyler
said that.
I mean he's one of the 2020group, but you know, through
(24:17):
this last four years, this isnot it's the 90-10% deal, but it
might even have been higherthan 10% over the last four
years.
There's more bad apples outthere and we've found some of
them.
SAMBASSADOR (24:32):
Oh yeah, you will Yep, and so
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SHED GEEK (26:19):
What about these theft rings Like I mean should
we?
We can edit all that.
I'm just saying what about likethis, I mean all these rumors.
What about all these rumors oflike you know all the buildings
going missing and organizedtheft and things like that, and
how can you protect against that?
I mean, those are conversationsthat I didn't hear 12 years ago
(26:42):
, didn't hear five years ago andI don't think I heard three
years ago, like wow, I meanspotty stuff was happening three
years ago probably.
JONATHAN MILLER (26:51):
Yeah, but I've seen a lot more.
And I mean, obviously we've hadit on equipment too.
Yeah, just for the record.
SAMBASSADOR (27:00):
I've seen it back in 2016, 2017, and that's
already seven years ago.
It's a little hard to believe2017, 2017.
Yeah, that's true, but therewas very much organized theft
going on with sheds.
SHED GEEK (27:14):
They just had three buildings go missing from
Highland, Illinois.
Yeah, I saw that on the pagelast week.
JONATHAN MILLER (27:20):
So, I had posted that Martin's had three
missing, but there was Millersat Arthur had another two or
three on that same lot.
Wow, got pulled off over theweekend yeah that's wild it's
crazy yes um, I mean we were fora while there.
Yeah, we weren't too worriedabout it, but we've been.
We've been more concernedbecause we've had stuff yeah,
(27:42):
you know it's, it's um.
SAMBASSADOR (27:44):
So, you know what?
What you guys were talking backand forth about a little bit
about why would a lendingcompany lend 10 grand out on
something when they can lend oneguy 250 grand instead of having
to have 25 guys?
It's always more risk to dothat.
But going to any little townthat has I don't know, I'm going
(28:05):
to shoot a wild number here15,000 people in it and you'll
find four small financecompanies, the Green Trees,
whatever they are.
JONATHAN MILLER (28:12):
First, Franklin , all those little guys,
something's happening.
SAMBASSADOR (28:17):
Those guys aren't just loaning out.
You know they're doing thelittle.
Well, I don't back when I wasusing them to sell sheds.
You know doing the little.
What I don't back when I wasusing them to sell sheds, you
know the branch manager couldapprove up to 6 500 bucks
without anything, and thatcovered most of my sheds.
I forgot about that.
JONATHAN MILLER (28:32):
We were using American General for a while.
Yeah, they were one of those,so those guys were doing that.
SAMBASSADOR (28:37):
So, there is there's somebody's picking up
that piece of the pie and usingit.
But I know for me personally,if I can have one client at
$250,000 versus 10 of them at$25,000 or 25 of them at $10,000
, which way am I going to go?
So, I don't know.
It's a little bit.
(28:58):
So, you have to make a littlebetter money on those smaller
ones to cover your risk, becauseyou have more risk.
You have 10 times more people.
SHED GEEK (29:09):
That's something that will probably surprise people
and, Jonathan, I know you couldspeak to that in the RTO world
that would probably blow thesocks off of most people the
amount of risk versus the rewardthat you actually make, because
there's been some obviouslysuccessful RTO companies and
like they can push dollarsaround and things like that.
But uh, you might be surprisedat what they had to go through
(29:32):
to get to where they are becauseit's yeah there's a lot of risk
out there, and it doesn't takebut one bad apple to really run
an RTO company.
SAMBASSADOR (29:40):
Yeah, you can, yeah you know, you can have a, you
can have a pretty strongrent-to-own company and if they
run into that one bad deal, itchanges in a hurry.
Well, and there's no regulation, have you?
SHED GEEK (29:51):
noticed there's no regulation.
Me and Dennis were talking aboutthat no there's no regulation
to sign people up, and I thinkRTO companies were just as bad
as the other companies who arelike, hey, I'm tired of this
dealer, bring me your.
The other companies who arelike, hey, I'm tired of this
dealer, bring me your.
I think RTO companies are thesame way, like oh, that guy
couldn't service you, you knowlike we'll take you on and
there's no to me.
(30:11):
That's where the NBSR I knowyou can't make a blacklist and
all that stuff.
I know there's some legalitiesand I don't need Edwin breathing
down my neck or anything, youknow.
So, I'm not trying to stir upanything.
So, I'm not trying to stir upanything I'm just saying it
seems like that's where we coulddo a better job of coming
together to eliminate thosedealers and customers who
default.
Not just default, but they'rethieves, thieves.
SAMBASSADOR (30:33):
Thank you, I was going to say troublesome.
You can cut that out.
No, it's just calling it whatit is but yeah, no, you're right
, what it is.
JONATHAN MILLER (30:46):
Yeah, you know, and um, but um, yeah, no,
you're right, and I, I think, Ithink, though I've you know from
my, from my side, and I'm notfrom, yeah, from a business side
big picture.
We haven't been trying to takeover the world, like a lot of
these guys have been over thelast five years and um, but even
those that have been trying tosee what all they can do, the
appetite has really softenedover the last year.
SAMBASSADOR (31:06):
Oh, thank you, that's a very recognizable point
.
JONATHAN MILLER (31:11):
I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean so it's gone from whereand obviously we've seen it on
equipment, so like, if we lookat the whole industry, shannon's
biting his lip.
SHED GEEK (31:23):
I'll go as far, as far to say if you are signing up
with an RTO company, you needto understand.
This is going to get me introuble isn't it?
SAMBASSADOR (31:33):
I can feel it.
You feel the Holy Spirit everytime you shut your mouth.
SHED GEEK (31:37):
It doesn't mean they have money.
It means they have access tomoney.
SAMBASSADOR (31:42):
in most cases, Okay , but even take it a step
further.
Some do, some do have money.
It means they have access tomoney in most cases.
Yeah, okay, but even take it astep.
Some do, some do have money.
SHED GEEK (31:50):
I'm saying I get that , yeah, you know what I mean.
But in most cases you haveaccess to money, so it's still
back to a know your numbers game.
Yeah, because if you don't, andthey hitting one down, one down
payment 60 months on 97% oftheir contracts.
They're trying to sell off a$10 million portfolio.
And you're like you just handedme a bunch of junk contracts or
(32:13):
immature contracts.
That's why the banks arepulling back because you're
trying to grow at such a rapidpace.
It's like the guy that wasmaking $25,000 making $100,000.
You need those years ofstruggle because the bank's
going to yank their money and Idon't want to get in trouble.
(32:34):
I'm not trying to call anyoneout or anything like that, it's
just, yeah, I mean, privateequity is still a good thing.
Just saying and I'm far frombeing super knowledgeable about
this, I'm learning every day,Jonathan, so like you could
school me on all of this, no,you're on the right track there.
JONATHAN MILLER (32:52):
I mean you're, I think it is like I just you
know.
Basically, where I was going is.
So, you're talking about how torent to own companies.
Maybe we could do a better jobof actually weeding out dealers
and stuff.
What I'm saying is flip thecoin a little bit, though, too.
If you're the dealer, which youpretty much said it for me if
you're the dealer, be carefulwho you sign up with too,
(33:17):
because you want a system thatworks, and it's just been.
Everybody's been struggling abit more Ask questions Vet the
process.
SHED GEEK (33:26):
You know what I mean.
Like gosh find a consultationgroup somewhere and ask them to
kind of help guide you, orsomething that's not a Facebook
page.
Right, good point.
SAMBASSADOR (33:37):
Some nights I'm sitting there on my couch and
you know some guy gets on there.
Nobody has researched the guy.
Nobody knows the guy.
You know he's Mr.
, I don't I can't use any name,because every name I bring up,
it refers to somebody.
You can use my name.
But yeah, okay, Mr.
Jonathan comes on, says hey, Ineed a rent dome company.
Well, somebody came here and 15companies get listed and I'm
(34:01):
sitting there and I'm like whatare we doing?
Like we're going to give areference over the phone and
we've seen this.
They go sign the guy up withoutever doing any.
You know calling anybody.
Have you used another rent-downcompany before?
Or you know why are you lookingfor one?
Oh no, you've got to use thiscompany.
It's like when you know you seethis on my personal page when
(34:22):
they ask about where they shouldgo to church, yes, and I'm like
did you ever think about askingthe Lord where you should go to
church instead of the communitypage and everybody's?
like oh you got to go herebecause they have the best kids
program anybody has.
SHED GEEK (34:36):
Or you got to go over here because we have better
worship service.
My favorite on that is alwayslike, yeah, we can't, we don't
want to go here because theydon't have a good program.
I'm like you ever consider thelord's calling you to start a
kids program, you know?
Or?
SAMBASSADOR (34:45):
like I'll be honest with you.
Um, you know, I heard a pastoron Thursday night just flat out
tell a group of 200 men you knowwhat.
We need to back off on kidsprograms.
SHED GEEK (34:55):
We need to focus on men's programs oh, man, and I
want to stand up amen get themen to church.
You typically get the familyright yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (35:03):
Yeah, but we have that backwards.
You get the family and you'llget the men.
I've heard that from the pulpit.
And it's the same way.
You know it's.
I don't there again.
I hate legislation, but it'slike you can literally just walk
into an office and sign a guyup on a rental.
You know, that's one thing Davewas really good at, though
Miller yeah, Dave Miller, he'spicky about his paperwork.
SHED GEEK (35:28):
Yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (35:28):
You know, you don't just give him a million-dollar
check and say here, go invest mymoney.
He's like whoa, whoa, whoa.
We're going to sign some papers.
SHED GEEK (35:37):
Addressing your Facebook comment.
I must be just ready to end mycareer.
Today, it's a popularitycontest.
SAMBASSADOR (35:46):
Yes, yeah, a hundred percent.
SHED GEEK (35:48):
It's a popularity contest.
SAMBASSADOR (35:50):
On the church or the rent-to-own company yeah, or
the manufacturer.
SHED GEEK (35:54):
I think some people are like I'm genuinely happy, I
want to refer my company.
SAMBASSADOR (35:59):
Oh, I'm not saying that.
Yeah, I agree.
You know what I mean.
SHED GEEK (36:02):
I believe that to be true, but typically speaking,
it's like it becomes and it'slike wait a minute, we're not in
this for popularity contest.
Honestly, a lot of goodcompanies typically get
mentioned, just like a lot ofgood equipment options, or you
know what I mean.
Like whatever it is.
Uh, uh, you know we we've triednot to make an enemy out of any
of our competition in marketing.
TYLER SHULTZ (36:25):
Yeah.
SHED GEEK (36:26):
Because we're just like, hey, it'd be better to be
friends with them.
Because this is what happens.
Jonathan, tell me I'm wrong.
Hey, we're thinking aboutleaving our marketing company
and coming over to you guys, soI'm supposed to get giddy and
all excited that you're comingover until I don't investigate
and find out what's going on,because I know who you're coming
from and they're a good company.
(36:47):
Why are you leaving?
Why are you leaving?
They're a pretty good company.
JONATHAN MILLER (36:51):
I'm gonna have to dive into that a little bit
because you're 100 bucks cheaper.
They're gonna leave you againonce you're 100 bucks well, or
if they're leaving because of asimple misunderstanding.
SHED GEEK (36:59):
They're gonna leave us too.
We're going to last very long.
So I mean, it's the same withrto.
It's the same as if you leaveone of the one who you're with
selling sheds right now,especially if you're on a
consignment lot.
Like I said, I might as welljust quit today.
I don't know what you.
Somebody slips up in my drinkor what, but I'm normally never
(37:22):
this so from now on, we're justgoing to refer cardinal leasing.
SAMBASSADOR (37:23):
Yeah, it's going to be tyler, though, because Slip
something in my drink or what,but I'm normally never this
loose on my tongue.
JONATHAN MILLER (37:27):
So, from now on , we're just going to refer
Cardinal Leasing to everything.
It's going to be Tyler, though,because Tyler had this funny
joke.
This is actually hilarious.
When we were talking, we weretalking about slow times in the
winter and stuff so he hadmentioned that he switched and
started hauling for this localcompany and I don't even know
who this is, so I'm not going tomention any names.
So, he switched and startedhauling for this local company.
SAMBASSADOR (37:46):
And I don't even know who this is, so I'm not
going to mention any names, sohopefully I won't get myself in
trouble.
Oh, now you're going to burnyour bridges.
JONATHAN MILLER (37:50):
Maybe I shouldn't say this no, we're
going.
Okay.
So, he said for three years hehauled for this company and
every winter they were busy andit's like that's weird.
SAMBASSADOR (38:02):
Well, he said, every winter we changed hands
stands.
TYLER SHULTZ (38:04):
well, that's a good point.
SAMBASSADOR (38:06):
You can't do it in the summertime, you're too busy,
exactly so you have to do it.
They started to get stable thisyear, so I needed to find I was
worried, something else to do.
Yeah, I'm worried about winterwork.
No, winter work.
SHED GEEK (38:18):
Yeah, I would much rather pick up a client on my
merits and on the things wequalify with in a cool, calm and
collected matter.
I'd never really.
It's almost a red flagimmediately for them to call
them up and be like thiscompany's you know messing me
around over here and you're likemaybe, yeah, might be true, it
(38:40):
might be true.
SAMBASSADOR (38:42):
Well, okay, so part of that's just you're gaining
wisdom as you go along, andthat's part of life.
We should all be going throughthat.
Yeah, you know, I've learnednot to do some of the same stuff
.
SHED GEEK (38:58):
True.
SAMBASSADOR (38:58):
Yeah, Like I won't tell somebody not to go buy a
Ford anymore, I'll tell them togo find out if there's a good
Ford dealership in their town,which there's not going to be.
JONATHAN MILLER (39:06):
But they have to go find that out.
I wonder where this is going.
SAMBASSADOR (39:11):
But you know it's the same.
We see guys come in, you knowand I hate to use the fact that
we've been around a long time,but after you've been around a
while, you just it start.
The experience starts stackingup and it's like
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SAMBASSADOR (41:11):
you know and you don't.
JONATHAN MILLER (41:12):
We don't need more experience, we've already
had no, I don't want anymore andyou don't want done and you
don't want other people to gothrough some of the things that
you've gone through.
SAMBASSADOR (41:20):
But then other times I look at them.
I'm like you know what, just gothat route, that's.
You know, that's fine um yeah,sometimes you just gotta yeah,
and I do believe you are right.
I feel like 99 of the time thereferrals are given from people
who are excited about whothey're referring.
SHED GEEK (41:39):
And you hope so, and.
SAMBASSADOR (41:40):
I like to see that.
SHED GEEK (41:41):
Even if they're referring my company.
I'm always kind of like hey,make sure you're happy with us,
Does that?
SAMBASSADOR (41:47):
anonymous button still work on your page.
Yeah, I might just go on thereand be like instead of y'all
referring programs to me, who doyou not refer?
JONATHAN MILLER (41:57):
I love that.
Be careful man.
No, I was like.
SHED GEEK (42:03):
Well, I would go far enough to say probably don't get
your referral from Facebook.
SAMBASSADOR (42:08):
Well, that's my point.
SHED GEEK (42:09):
Matter of fact.
If you do, and if you do seenames on there, call every one
of them.
SAMBASSADOR (42:14):
Yeah.
SHED GEEK (42:15):
Call every one of them and interview every one of
them.
SAMBASSADOR (42:19):
You know, my favorite answer has now become
there's multiple ones.
SHED GEEK (42:23):
Oh, even call the ones not listed.
SAMBASSADOR (42:25):
Yeah, you have to find the one that fits you.
Why would you make such animportant decision based off of
one phone call?
SHED GEEK (42:31):
Yeah, or one recommendation on a Facebook
post or something.
They're pretty good pretty muchanymore.
SAMBASSADOR (42:37):
You can have a firestorm in about three hours.
If you ask for some, they'regoing to give you, you know yeah
, what's kind of interesting is.
JONATHAN MILLER (42:44):
Early on you said, yeah, I've been on your
Facebook page for a long timeand I have, but I but I bet, if
you would like.
I'm not a social media person.
Yeah and um, probably.
If you go back and look, Iwonder if I put 10 posts on the
Shed haulers page total, or 20maybe.
SAMBASSADOR (42:58):
I doubt it, but I like to listen.
JONATHAN MILLER (43:00):
I can actually look.
You should look just out ofcuriosity.
SHED GEEK (43:04):
I just want to tell everybody who's ever recommended
our services on any of those,if you've done it out of pure
like satisfaction for what we'vedone, thank you, and the check
is in the mail.
SAMBASSADOR (43:18):
I knew he was going somewhere with this because
there was no way he was gettingout of that one.
SHED GEEK (43:26):
Wait a minute.
Where's my check?
It's in the mail.
It's in the mail.
SAMBASSADOR (43:32):
That's back to that Kentucky mail that never seems
to reach South Carolina Exactly.
Oh, that's great.
SHED GEEK (43:38):
This conversation is great because it's like I don't
feel like I'm.
You know, I realize a lot ofpeople are going to listen to
this, but sometimes I feel likeI'm just talking with just the
four of us.
The mic just caught it, butsome of those things need to be
said, it's okay.
JONATHAN MILLER (43:52):
But I haven't been talking too much.
We haven't heard Tyler too muchyet.
SHED GEEK (43:54):
We haven't he kind of snuck.
SAMBASSADOR (43:56):
Well, no, he didn't completely sneak out what?
SHED GEEK (43:58):
questions do you guys have?
SAMBASSADOR (44:08):
I need to be quiet.
I was supposed to be gone, yeah, no, we're all good.
I don't have the nerve, you do,to get out there that people
know about.
What do you want to ask?
Or, you know, put your plug in.
This is your free plug.
You pay for the regular plug,so you're doing good at that, I
love it, you got that one on me.
TYLER SHULTZ (44:32):
Yeah, I got that one on you.
SHED GEEK (44:33):
Pressure's on you, I'm sorry.
We're all looking at you likecome on, you got to do it.
TYLER SHULTZ (44:40):
No, I would be happy to help anybody that's
looking to get equipment used ornew.
We'll do our best to help theindustry move forward.
SAMBASSADOR (44:52):
And, yeah, we look forward to working with you and
normally I would ask for yourinformation, but your commercial
will be on this episodesomewhere.
JONATHAN MILLER (44:57):
So, just go back and listen to the.
Cardinal Leasing and you'llhave all the info, you'll hear
Sam talk and you can click.
SHED GEEK (45:04):
You can even click on the newsletter when it goes out
.
JONATHAN MILLER (45:07):
It goes straight to their website.
SHED GEEK (45:09):
So if you need to find out where to find
information, sign up for thenewsletter.
You'll see it.
TYLER SHULTZ (45:15):
And we have tried to make our just now.
This last week we finally gotour application process for the
traditional loan.
SAMBASSADOR (45:26):
You can do it on your phone now instead of having
to print it out.
Nice, so you can like, send outa link or whatever and they can
just do it right on there.
How did they find it?
TYLER SHULTZ (45:33):
It's on the website.
It's on the website.
It's on the website, or I cansend you a link on an email or
you can send a link on the email.
JONATHAN MILLER (45:38):
That's pretty cool on the traditional site and
it's just about a one.
If we send the paper copy out,it's literally one page.
TYLER SHULTZ (45:46):
It's not like a typical bank loan.
JONATHAN MILLER (45:57):
Because again and just shed hauling stuff
mules for us, and so basicallyit's like this is all you need,
it's one page.
TYLER SHULTZ (46:04):
Yeah, that's cool.
JONATHAN MILLER (46:04):
They don't need your whole life history and
three of your children andwhatever else they might need to
go with it.
It's really simple.
SHED GEEK (46:10):
Quick response time and boom, you know, and you can
be in a trailer that day, almostAlmost, yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (46:17):
I don't know why, like I honestly thought earlier
this year we would see a decline.
So, there is a lot of equipmentout there that's been available
for quite a while, but it's notchoice equipment.
Choice equipment stilldisappears in a hurry and, as
you guys well know, know, a lotof it's not even making the
(46:38):
equipment page right now.
Yeah, it's selling before itever gets there.
Um, I've got two guys right nowthat I'm hawk like they.
They know I was gonna be herethis weekend.
They're like keep your earsopen if you know of anything
that's possibly for sale upthere.
You know, let us know.
We're looking for stuff andit's.
It's crazy, yeah, how it justkeeps right on text while we was
(47:00):
.
SHED GEEK (47:00):
While we was here you know this guy he's selling a
mule.
Just want to make sure he'sstraight up yeah yeah, I don't
know him, but I'll ask aroundyou know what I mean like that's
yeah, yeah.
SAMBASSADOR (47:09):
Well, we've had some guys get burnt pretty bad
on that side too, and you knowwhat?
I'll always come back to this.
If you get burnt on somethingand I find out that you didn't
ask me about it, sorry, can'thelp you.
You could have asked somequestions.
I don't know everybody, don'tget me wrong.
I'll tell you if I don't, butask.
Yeah, I'd be even more insaneGo ahead.
TYLER SHULTZ (47:30):
Tyler.
No, go ahead, Tyler, back tothe know your numbers, though.
When you're looking at usedequipment, please check new
equipment prices before buyingthe used equipment, because
there have been some mules beingadvertised used for more
expensive than new mules we'regoing for right now Are mules
called up.
SAMBASSADOR (47:50):
right now Can you pretty much get a mule pretty
quick.
Pretty much, because the reasonfor that was I'll pay $5,000
more to get a mule today versusgetting one in 90 days because I
can make the $5,000 in 90 days.
TYLER SHULTZ (48:02):
Last I knew they had everything in stock except
maybe the 7040s, but the 7040swas like a couple weeks out.
JONATHAN MILLER (48:10):
Yeah, and that was coming directly from
Cardinal.
But some of the others, like Idon't know what WKM or Pine Hill
, what those guys have got, Idon't know if they've got any
inventory?
Right now.
But yeah, they're prettyavailable, so we're catching up
a little bit Actually catchingup.
SAMBASSADOR (48:23):
That's good, that's really good.
JONATHAN MILLER (48:25):
Yeah, and because yeah, I think actually
today, I think time in four orfive years, that there were
actually machines available thatyou could get.
SAMBASSADOR (48:40):
So, if you guys don't know Jonathan personally,
you need to get to know him oh,I thought he's gonna say thank
you.
TYLER SHULTZ (48:47):
No, he's, you're doing good I'm still looking for
these checks.
SAMBASSADOR (49:02):
I feel like you're a little bit like me.
You show up at all the events.
You're open, you love talkingto your people.
I feel like your heart's in theindustry.
Your family's always on boardwith you.
I love your family to death.
I can't say enough good aboutyour family.
You put me in the hospitalalmost, but your wife bailed me
(49:25):
from that so it ended up she'sover there.
JONATHAN MILLER (49:29):
What did he just say?
So the only time I ever gotCOVID.
SAMBASSADOR (49:32):
I got it from this guy.
SHED GEEK (49:33):
You were in.
SAMBASSADOR (49:34):
Marion.
JONATHAN MILLER (49:35):
Yeah, I was in Marion.
Charlene has to run down toKentucky to pick him up.
SAMBASSADOR (49:38):
And I'm like uh off in La La.
JONATHAN MILLER (49:41):
Land.
We're going to have to haulthis kid off to the hospital.
He's not going anywhere himself.
So she goes and picks him upand drags him back.
SAMBASSADOR (49:47):
I actually feel like, other than the part of
being isolated, which is nuts,other than that, I feel like I
handled it fairly well, andthat's mostly thanks to your
lovely wife.
SHED GEEK (49:57):
I'll throw a plug in here too, as if we haven't done
enough already.
But you know, one thank you forsponsoring.
And two, like we'recapitalistic here at the podcast
, Like guess who we're going topromote?
We're going to promote thosewho sponsor.
So, I'm encouraging otherpeople to sponsor.
But we want to be fair and wewill be fair, but right now I
(50:24):
mean we're pushing everybodyyour way.
So, I mean, like that's acompetitive advantage that you
get whenever you do spend money,whether Sam brought you or not.
SAMBASSADOR (50:34):
You know what I mean.
Oh boy, here we go again.
All right, thank you forlistening to another episode of
the Shed Geek Podcast BeforeShannon actually burns his house
down any further than he everhas.
SHED GEEK (50:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
SAMBASSADOR (50:47):
No, it's all good.
It's always a pleasure to hangout.
Maybe we'll get a hunting tripin together somewhere before we
both keel over dead.
Yeah, we need to do that.
I heard that that seems to be apopular thing around you lately
is to just keel over.
JONATHAN MILLER (51:02):
I'm out with Chase and they need to hold me
off.
SAMBASSADOR (51:06):
I didn't even get that in this episode.
But if you decide to go huntingwith a Kaufman, all I'm going
to say is you better have areally good pack mule to carry
you around or you better be inshape.
Yeah, because those Kaufmanboys they don't mess around,
that's right, they'll wear youout in a hurry.
JONATHAN MILLER (51:22):
They will wear you out, so yes.
SAMBASSADOR (51:25):
Thank you all for being on today.
Thank you guys out there inpodcast land for listening today
.
Thank you, Shannon, for beingwilling to join in today from
the Midwest Barbecue in IndianaAlways fun, Always fun.
Thank you guys.
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