May 26, 2025 • 40 mins
What happens when the "podfather" of the Shed Geek Podcast Network meets the Steel Kings? Pure industry gold. Shannon "The Shed Geek" joins Jared to dive deep into the challenges and opportunities facing today's shed and steel building professionals.
The conversation kicks off with Shannon's remarkable journey building the Shed Geek brand and podcast network—a testament to what happens when you pour yourself completely into something you're passionate about. "If you give a hundred percent of yourself to something," Shannon explains, "it returns." This philosophy has guided him from procurement to sales management and ultimately to becoming one of the most recognized voices in the shed industry.
Together, they tackle the controversial 1099 vs. W2 debate that's reshaping dealer networks across America. With brutal honesty, they examine why manufacturers continue relying on consignment models where a mere 10% of dealers generate 90% of sales. Jared shares his successful transition to a W2 model at Dayton Barns, creating consistent customer experiences and professional standards that benefit everyone involved. Meanwhile, Shannon provides eye-opening perspective on the challenges dealers face when manufacturers fail to deliver on promises.
Marketing emerges as another critical pain point. With manufacturers and dealers competing against each other in the same digital spaces, everyone's cost per lead skyrockets. Is there a better way? The hosts explore how centralized lead generation and distribution might transform the industry, creating more efficient systems that benefit dealers and manufacturers alike.
Don't miss Shannon's announcement of the new Steel Structures Sales Professionals Facebook group—a community where industry professionals can share knowledge, debate best practices, and elevate everyone's game. As Shannon puts it, "Iron sharpens iron," and education is the key that drives us all forward.
Ready to transform your approach to selling steel structures? Subscribe to the Steel Kings podcast and join the conversation that's reshaping an entire industry. Your competition is already listening.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.
To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.
To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: J Money LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jared Ledford (00:31):
Hey guys, what's up.
This is Jared and this is theSteel Kings podcast, coming at
you with another new episode,and wanted to let you guys know
right out front the good folksat J Money will help you out
with your building needs as faras financing.
If you're a shed dealer, ametal building manufacturer, if
you're an independent contractorworking on home improvement
(00:52):
projects, check out the teamover at J Money.
Our friends Joel Katie and thewhole team over there are happy
to assist you with all of yourfinancing needs.
We have a very, very, veryspecial guest today on the Steel
Kings podcast.
I am super excited and this guyyou're going to recognize him
(01:14):
right out of the rim, but I'mnot going to waste too much more
time, we're going to bring himinto the studio.
The podfather of the Shed Geekpodcast network, my friend
Shannon the Shed Geek,How are you today, brother
Shannon?
Shannon Latham (01:34):
Man, doing good, appreciate the hype.
I like the energy.
I like the music.
I like the street art.
I love what you guys are doingwith the visual.
For those who don't tune in tothe visual aspect of the show,
it's really cool.
Lots of neat stuff going on thescreen, kind of making me
envious over here in mybuzzsprout world.
(01:54):
But that zoom has served uswell.
But I got to look at StreamYardman.
It looks you guys are making itlook look cool A podfather.
I like it.
I had a buddy called me but hesaid he said you're like the Joe
Rogan of sheds.
Yeah man, yeah I you're makingus.
You're making us kind of yourco-pilots on this journey with
(02:15):
the shed geek podcast network.
Um, we were, we were honored tobe featured.
Um, you guys have, uh, heard ustalk to guys over at Sheds
Direct on a previous episode wewere featured as their podcast
of the month for the month ofMay.
So, if there's any Sheds Directdealers listening and checking
us out, we appreciate you guys.
For sure Shannon was tellingyou guys we're on YouTube, we're
(02:36):
on Spotify, we're on prettymuch every one of your
podcasting platforms.
So, if you're checking us outon YouTube, check us out in
audio format.
We've also got a plain communitydial-in version.
We send out a newsletter.
So, check out shedgeek.
com to sign up for thenewsletter and get all of your
notifications from the team atshedgeek.
com.
(02:56):
Shannon brother, you are hereon a mission today and I am
super excited.
We're starting a little bit ofa journey in Facebook and you
know, for those of you who don'tknow Shannon, I'm going to give
him the floor for a minute ortwo here just to give you a
background on himself.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyou, brother, and what you're
(03:17):
up to.
Yeah.
So, in short, man, it's just,you know, know, the best way I
know how to explain it is, youknow, walking.
This journey has been so unique.
It's.
I keep saying I need to write abook about this at some point
because you, you know, truth isstranger than fiction.
(03:39):
Honestly, and uh, I think youknow shed geek, the shed geek
brand, all the affiliates andpartnerships and things that's
come along the way, you know,has really surprised me in a way
that, like, if you give ahundred percent of yourself to
something like it, it returns.
You know what I mean.
Like it returns, like there'sno way that you can't go out and
(04:01):
pull yourself into an industryand to people, um, and then like
, see the, the fruits of thatlabor, and that's kind of,
that's kind of you know what'shappened with shed geek and how
that connection has evenhappened with, uh, you and Eric
and just so many others alongthis journey.
Uh, it's really just pouringyourself into something
completely and I did that withsheds and along the way in that
(04:24):
journey, all of a sudden I foundsheds is like a common
denominator, but there's so manyother things that exist.
Whenever you say, like, I'm ashed dealer, you know, or shed
manufacturer, you know.
I started my journey inpurchasing as a procurement
coordinator and I was trying tosave money and order material
and learn about all thedifferent aspects of it and went
(04:48):
into sales, you know, end up insales management, you know, had
had a couple of trucks and lotsand then kind of started
realizing like wait a minute,like not my, not my area of
expertise necessarily.
So, it was like the marketingworld, the advertising world,
(05:09):
the building relationships andthis like honestly, man, it was
like, hey, why not start apodcast?
I'm listening to podcasts,listening all these people talk,
and I'm like people areconstantly asking for more
resources.
I want more resources, wantmore knowledge, want more
information and, uh, you know.
So that's what we did.
And then it took off on thisother whole journey of marketing
(05:31):
and rentals and financing ande-commerce and partnerships with
3d configurators and, um, uh,other podcasts and other
networks and yeah, so it's,god's been good man.
It's just been like this reallyunique and, you know,
interesting industry that haslanded me in some really cool
(05:54):
positions and, yeah, I'mthankful for it.
At the end of the day, I'msuper thankful for the listeners
.
Jared Ledford (06:01):
Yeah, one of the things that we talked about this
past week, uh, you know, wetalk probably at least two or
three times a month off offlineand we we get into these zones
where we get in these long,really long conversations, and
one of the things we talkedabout this week was creating
content that we'd want to listento.
Right, it isn't necessarily foreverybody.
So, you know, if you'relistening to us and you don't
(06:24):
like what we have to say, we'rethe first ones to tell you check
somebody else out.
But give us a shot.
You know we're, we're, we'reencouraging you to.
You know, do better with yourbusiness.
I know a lot of the stuff thatwe do, you know, feels canned
and, uh, you know, kind of, youknow coachy and all that kind of
stuff.
But you know, Shannon and Iwere talking about a little bit.
That's what we want to do.
We want to motivate you guys.
(06:44):
You know, for me personally, Ihave been on a single shed lot
with 15 buildings and beenstruggling to find a way to do
business, been struggling tofind a way through Facebook,
marketplace or through.
You know, even back then Iwasn't even doing any SEO or
anything like that.
I mean, this was a one man showand a lot Eric was the same way
.
We were just slinging sheds,trying to figure out a way to
(07:07):
make a dollar for the next dayto sling more sheds.
And you know, I know there's alot of you out there that are
like that, that are listening tothe podcast and checking us out
.
We are an open book, Shannonand I both Eric as well.
You know I've been putting mynew Steel Kings email address
out here for you guys.
Drop me an email.
I am an open book.
Shannon is too.
(07:27):
I think your info is shedgeek.
com For anybody that's wantingto find out more about the
business and find out more aboutsheds and steel buildings.
That's really what we're herefor.
We want to be an open book, wewant topics, we want questions.
If you guys have anything youwant us to talk about, I am more
than open to.
You know, having a question andanswer type of thing like ask,
(07:49):
ask the shed geek anything, orask you, ask the steel kings
anything.
You know, if you guys havequestions, we want to answer
them.
We want to be an open book.
Um, the reason why we're heretoday is, uh, Shannon started a
new facebook group and, forthose of you who are part of the
Shed Sales ProfessionalsFacebook group.
If you guys are selling steelbuildings the Steel Structures
(08:11):
Sales Professionals page onFacebook check that out.
That is Steel Structures SalesProfessionals.
Shannon and I are moderators inthat group.
Just another avenue for us tocommunicate with each other,
maybe bounce ideas off of oneanother.
Again, open book.
There are plenty of buildingsto be sold, both metal and wood.
(08:33):
We've got pole, barn and postframe guys out there too.
We just want to open up thefloodgates and really create a
community of people that cancommunicate with one another,
work together on projects.
I might not be able to dosomething that somebody else can
do and vice versa, and ifthere's a way that we can work
together and make everybody'sbusiness harmonious, we want to
do that.
Shannon, why did you start thepage?
(08:55):
What was your why behind it?
Shannon Latham (08:58):
Yeah, man.
So, I had that page.
It was kind of set in dormantfrom a different, a different
avenue.
So, there was about 1,000,1,500 people already in that
private group and, as you guysknow, you know Facebook kind of
opens up the algorithms forprivate groups.
They kind of participate andwant others to participate.
In that.
There's no, you know, you'retypically not getting sold
(09:23):
anything there.
It's not like a Facebook pagewhere you're kind of like a pay
to play, where they want youactually in the, in the, in the
meta business suite and thingslike that.
You know.
So so I thought, well, educationis really kind of like near and
dear to my heart.
I really feel like education isthe thing that drives us all
forward.
It's the thing that we're, thatwe're missing.
Forgive me, I'm getting over acode here, so so my thoughts are
(09:49):
you know, iron sharpens iron.
You know the, the, the mostread book of all times, the
Bible, the second most read bookis man's search for meaning.
You know, like people arealways seeking education.
I always want to learn more and,and you know, when you put
yourself out there and you'revulnerable to put yourself out
there on a podcast, put yourselfout there on a in a magazine
article, put yourself out thereas a speaker at an event, uh,
(10:13):
even creating a private grouppage and like trying to like
harvest some rules, to likecreate content.
You're doing most of thesethings you're doing for free.
Most of these things you'redoing because you're passionate
about it.
And then, like you'revulnerable because, like you're,
you're showing your things.
You're doing for free.
Most of these things you'redoing because you're passionate
about it.
And then, like you'revulnerable because, like you're,
you're, you're showing yourcard, you're putting yourself
out there and what I've found is, you know, you get like a 90%
(10:34):
participation rate between thepeople who really want to do
more, learn more, be better,increase the value of the
industry, make it a morecohesive industry, learn how to
be collaborators and competitorsin a respectful way and change
the mindset of like the dog eatdog business world.
Constantly that exists, havingsome of that hunger, but not
(10:58):
having it so much so that it youknow you lose who you are, and
basically it's like, hey, let'screate some content, let's,
let's put something out there,let's have conversation.
Like I encourage people to goto the steel structures, uh,
sales professionals, to learnmore about that, have good,
healthy debate, call things outwhen necessary in a professional
(11:19):
manner, uh, but give more thanyou take away from it, right,
you know?
So like, so, like you know, andthat's the idea too with a
podcast or with anything thatwe're doing so, like, I
encourage people to go on thereand have conversation, but
sometimes you got to bringawareness.
You got to bring awareness oryou got to stay top of mind and
awareness is, it exists, it'sthere now.
(11:41):
Maybe you didn't know it wasthere, maybe to hit your, your
page at some point, but you cango, seek it out, put a few
things in there.
We want to make sure we keepthat limited to sell steel sales
professionals.
We don't just want randompeople coming in, because why
would they want to be there tolearn about how to sell steel
structures?
You know, that's not the targetwe're going for.
We're going for the B2B marketand getting people to just kind
(12:05):
of have conversation.
Trust me, there's plenty ofconversation that happens around
steel structures and the salesof steel structures, so why not
get it on there where we canhave a conversation that helps
everybody?
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Jared Ledford (13:30):
Yeah, I think it's good to forum.
I'm a big Reddit reader.
I really love Reddit.
I think I go there for justabout any major question I have.
I try to seek out somebody elsewho's dealt with the same
problems that I've dealt with orthe same.
Whatever I'm looking to do,whether it be install a door at
my house or upload a YouTubevideo or put together
(13:51):
information for this podcast youknow, it really comes down to a
situation where content that wecan provide to each other is
very valuable.
It's innately valuable, right.
It's one of those things whereif I don't know and somebody can
teach me, then I'm that muchmore dangerous going forward.
(14:12):
And you know, one of the thingsthat you and I have talked about
at length, right, Shannon, isthe sink to the bottom.
You know that lower level thatis kind of metal building sales.
You know, I remember when I wastelling some of my closest
friends about my decision to gointo metal buildings and sheds,
(14:33):
they thought I was crazy.
They just thought I was crazy.
And what we've done here, youknow, at Dayton Barns, over the
last five, six years, is we'vegone from a group of independent
contractors to W2.
You guys have heard me talkabout this.
I'm passionate about it.
I think if you pay people to doa job and you train them well,
they will do it at the best oftheir ability, and if they can't
(14:56):
, you know, unfortunately noteverybody can sell a steel
building online.
But if you do it and you do itwell, chances are you're going
to be somewhat successful at it.
I want to get your opinion onthat.
Shannon, you know we talkedabout that offline coming into
today's conversation.
The 1099 versus W2 what's your?
You know where you actcurrently on that yeah, I want
(15:17):
to touch.
Shannon Latham (15:18):
I, I want to talk about that.
I want to touch on.
You said reddit, dude, google,just, you know, purchased reddit
, you know, for the purpose oflike, wanting to have good,
authentic, you know contentthat's not just ai generated.
So, what an interesting, youknow situation there where
you're seeking information andit's funny that people are
seeking information from actualpeople.
(15:39):
That's why we go to YouTube,that's why we go to Google, it's
why Google has becomecommonplace in our you know, in
our conversation.
You know it.
It wasn't even originally aGoogle, you know, like Google's
like a million zeros or whateverit was.
It was called back rub, you,you know.
And why was it called back rub?
You know, because the backlinks.
(15:59):
There's so many interestingthings you know to learn as you
dive into the tech world andthings like that.
But thanks to your question on,yeah, the 1099 aspect, it's
something that we run into inthe shed side and the steel side
all the time, because a lot oftimes a shed manufacturer will
have, you know, uh, uh, and aconsignment model that's not
(16:22):
really a floor plan model likeyou see in the car industry, um,
and it feels like, you know, wekind of follow suit.
We're always 10 years behind thecar industry, right, you know
on, know on what they're doing.
And so, the question becomesyou know, are you selling steel
only?
Are you selling sheds?
Are you selling other productsas well?
But those two come up andcompliment each other almost as
(16:45):
cousins, right, you know, steel,sheds, sheds, steel, and
they're both.
You know they're, they're,they're both solving, know
they're, they're both solving aneed, they're, they're typically
exist for the purpose ofcovering something or storing
something.
So, uh, storage for access orfor excess, uh, rather, content
(17:05):
that we, we just happen toacquire, uh, the American dream,
right, uh, you know, buy more,buy more, buy more, find a place
, no doubt no doubt you know,but why?
but why 1099?
And it's gosh, it's.
It's such a big conversation itcould probably be a podcast all
on its own.
It's um, you know.
(17:26):
I think the manufacturer justhas to kind of like, determine,
like, what is their, what istheir, why?
You know, what is their, whatis their why?
You know, what is their mission, vision, values, what's their
value proposition?
Why are they getting intobuilding steel buildings, you
know?
And if they are going to buildthese steel buildings, what are
they trying to do?
Are they trying to do thisMcDonald's franchise model where
(17:46):
they go out on property and,you know, set up these locations
?
Because the one thing that'sinteresting to me about steel
versus sheds is the amount ofinventory that is on the ground
for sheds.
You know the prefab aspect tosheds.
You can build it one side, youcan build new construction
buildings, but there's a massiveamount of prefab buildings that
(18:10):
exist for inventory purposesand with steel, steel, you don't
really see that.
You know, you see them sell offdisplay models and because of
that, typically what happens isthey're looking for someone with
a half- acre of ground thatowns a body shop and they're
like, hey, we set up a couplebuildings out here, do you want
to sell them?
And people are like what's itcost me?
(18:31):
What didn't cost you anything?
What if I don't sell anything?
Also, does it really cost youanything?
Ironically, no floor plan.
Do what you can.
And some people just grasp thatconcept and either run with it
or do nothing.
In other words, if you've got asteel building, manufacturers
(18:52):
got a thousand locations thatthey're selling from.
They may have a hundred activeand then have 900 locations out
there that just have an oldbuilding that's slowly falling
apart over time, that no one'sreally putting any commitment
into, into selling.
But then you've got thoseperformers, those top 100.
(19:14):
And then of those top 100, youmight have 10 like dynamite, you
know salespeople or whatever,and they're just taking the bull
by the horns and saying I seewhere this can do well, and I've
seen car guys do so well thatthey say I'm getting out of the
car industry, I can sell thisproduct better, I can sell this
line, you know better.
(19:34):
So, I guess what I'm saying isit really depends on the
manufacturer and their mindset,their mentality.
But as far as the dealer, youknow you're an independent
contractor.
You are an independent 1099contractor, which means you know
you have the ability to sellwhat you want, do what you want,
(19:55):
be in control of your brand,you know, as opposed to so, so.
So, the W2 side is like wouldyou do better investing into
those hundred productive this is?
These are the questions thatcome to mind for me.
Would you do better dedicatingyourself to the 100 dealers that
(20:16):
are dedicated to selling yourproduct and not worry about the
900?
But sometimes, maybe it'saesthetics, it looks better,
it's optics maybe, rather thanaesthetics, and it's easy to say
, well, we're in 1,000 differentplaces.
But if they don't have, youknow, professional sales
training or whatever they're,just they're thumbing their way
through it.
And you said it, you said it ashed lot before 15 sheds.
(20:39):
You're trying to figure outFacebook.
You're trying to figure out,okay, what does it look like if
I yeah, double top plate, singletop plate, 16 oc?
You know you're doing the samething in metal, right?
You're trying to figure out,like out, okay, what is a hat
channel?
What does that mean exactlywhat?
is this.
You know what I mean.
Why is 12 gauge better than 14gauge?
(21:01):
That doesn't make sense.
Aren't we going down.
There's so much productknowledge that you have to
consume outside of even yoursales knowledge.
It's just also interesting tome.
Jared Ledford (21:11):
Yeah.
Yeah, buddy, I can't agree withyou more than I do when it comes
to things like the 1099 versusW2 thing.
I think what I really strugglewith exactly what you said.
I've been gosh, I think,probably a dozen manufacturing
houses over the last two yearsall across the United States and
(21:34):
I hear the same things frommanufacturers and I'm always
asking what am I going to haveto do from a dealer perspective
to be in your top 10?
And if you have a thousanddealers, what's your top,
where's your gross coming from?
And almost always it's 10% isthe top coming from?
And almost always it's 10% isthe top.
(21:56):
You know, 10% does 90%.
Basically, so the top 10% does90% of the sales and I think
what you end up with over time,at least from our perspective,
we're in a pretty competitivemarket.
We're not, you know, we're not,you know we're not in Mount Airy
, right?
I mean, most people that arereally competitive in the
industry are down in Mount Airy,North Carolina.
For those of you that don'tknow, that's kind of like the
(22:16):
heartland for metal buildingsTons of manufacturers, tons of
dealers.
It really gets happening downin Mount Airy within a couple
hours of us.
We've got probably a dozen ormore dealers within a couple
hours of our location here inUrbana, and what I find more
(22:37):
often than not is I want to do aprocess, a sort of way, from
top to bottom.
I want to advertise a sort ofway.
I want to market a sort of way.
I want to get customers a sortof way.
I mean every single process,how we do our builds, how we
design them, the 3D designs thatwe do, but what you end up
finding is not everybody ismaybe as professional as they
(23:02):
might need to be, and what youend up with is you end up with
this kind of muddying of thewaters where it hurts everybody,
and I cannot stress that enough.
You know, if you're doing it,if you're a single man show and
you're successful, I applaud you.
That is not what this is about.
What this is about to me is thepeople who love this industry,
(23:24):
like myself and Shannon and Ericand so many people that we've
met.
I mean goodness, Shannon,you've met more people than me,
but I've met enough people overthe last few years to know that
we are in a very, very strongindustry.
We're in an industry that hasan immense amount of talent, and
what I want to try to do is Iwant to try to encourage those
who don't know any better.
(23:45):
It's really the fact that theyhaven't been taught.
Just like you said, the salestraining is lacking.
It's not just a matter of youknow, I'm not going to tell
somebody they don't love whatthey do.
That's not what I'm here to do.
What I'm here to do is to tellyou that if you're doing it a
(24:05):
sort of way, keep doing it, butdo it better.
Even if you're a number onedealer for your manufacturer and
you're buttoned up and all youremployees are on salary and you
can do whatever you want to do,there's still something you can
do better.
We try to do better here atDayton Barns every day.
You guys have heard me say it.
We have a team in-house,they're on a payroll, we W2 our
guys and gals and we reallystrive to give you the same
(24:28):
experience from any one of oursales staff.
That way it's on point, pointbrand wise.
It's on point with ourmanufacturers expectations.
We're not giving customersfalse expectations and we're not
over-promising andunder-delivering.
I think that's the biggestthing.
So, from a dealer to amanufacturer perspective, you
know the 1099 thing's fine,manufacturers paying 1099s.
(24:51):
But I think that the futurereally is manufacturers going
in-house, looking at insidesales teams, looking at
potentially partnering withtheir top dealers to really do
revolutionary next level things.
Because what we're seeing rightnow and I want to get your
opinion on this, because you'rea marketing guy I mean you do a
lot of your business with theguys over at Shed Geek Marketing
(25:13):
.
Dylan and his team are doing afantastic job.
Quick shout out to those guysIf you need help with your
marketing products, give theguys over there at Shed Geek
Marketing a call.
I can tell you it doesn't hurtto make a phone call and it
doesn't cost anything for aconsultation.
They'll give you someover-the-top view on what they
might be able to do to help youout, and they're doing some
(25:33):
pretty revolutionary things inthe shed space and steel
buildings.
What I can tell you my mainquestion to you, Shannon, is we
work with manufacturers allacross the United States.
I'll keep those for anothertime but all the manufacturers
that we work with are competingagainst one another in a space.
So, let's just use Pepsi andCoke as an example.
Pepsi and Coke competeeverywhere.
(25:55):
You see Pepsi and Coke in everysupermarket, grocery store.
You see them in every gasstation.
So, if you've got twomanufacturers and let's just say
I sell for both thosemanufacturers, I'm spending
money on marketing, they'respending money on marketing.
What we end up doing iscompeting with each other,
driving our CPRs up cost perresults.
(26:21):
For those of you who are new tothe business or need lingo,
cost per result is how much itcosts you to secure a raw lead.
So, for us, a raw lead is can Iget a building quote?
Am I in your service area?
I'm interested in a building,that kind of a thing.
What we do on our end is wehave in-house lead generation.
You're gonna contact and talkto somebody on our team in-house
.
They're gonna take the lead inreal time.
Can I get a building quote?
Absolutely, we're here to help.
(26:41):
You Just need your size and zipcode and we go from there.
We qualify the lead and it goesto one of our project managers.
But what I've been trying toconvince manufacturers-
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Jared Ledford (28:38):
Have the manufacturer house leads, send
the leads out to their dealersor work exclusively with a sales
team, because we are competingagainst each other in a space
that is costing us thousands ofdollars a month.
Shannon, is that the way yousee it?
Because it's the way I see it.
I witnessed it every day.
Shannon Latham (28:55):
My ads manager goes crazy and, uh, you know,
I'm trying to get cost perresult down, trying to give
customers a streamlined processyeah, I mean, you know it's so
much, so many things to unpackthere, um, but you know I would
say yes from a marketingperspective.
(29:16):
Um, you know it's it's kind ofpay to play.
We've had a couple of peopleask us you know, like, what do
you?
You're working with someoneover here, what do you?
You know what do you do with us?
You know what's your dedicationlevel to us and it's like, well
, you know, if your ad budget's$15,000 a month, like a company
we spoke with yesterday, versus$1,000 a month, you know
(29:38):
yesterday, versus a thousanddollars a month, you know, well,
you're probably going to have15 times more visibility versus,
you know, the thousand dollarsa month.
Guy, it's not a reflection ofour marketing or any marketing
that you're using, whether it'sus or someone else.
You're just going to have morevisibility whenever you have the
functionality to get in frontof people, more Add copy, all
(30:01):
those things matter.
But in reality, from a Googleand meta perspective, if you're
paying to get in front of thatmany people, you're going to
consume a certain, you know,like, amount of leads, of leads.
(30:23):
So, you know, yes, it all tiesinto the 1099 thing, because
even never we think about.
You know the, the thousanddealer network.
You know, and each one of thosedealers are branding something
different.
You know we're Jared steelsheds for Shannon steel sheds.
You know I say this all thetime but putting on my consult a
, a consultation hat, if I was,if I were giving you advice as a
1099, you know steelmanufacturer, you know I would
(30:47):
say maintain your brand in caseyou want to have a different
vendor.
But if you just switch vendorsevery time somebody gives you
more percent on the sale, you'regoing to run through and you're
probably going to get a badname for yourself after a while
and people aren't going to wantto bring you free stuff.
But you know for you to sell.
But even if you, even if you dosee, with sheds it's different
(31:08):
because they're prefab and youcan purchase, you can wholesale
purchase.
You know, and then you ownthose and you can do what you
want and have your own rent, own.
You can have your marketing.
You can have your own.
You know own, rent, own.
You can have your marketing.
You can have your own.
You know, whatever you own them, I, if I go, buy 10, you know
mailboxes, you know, and I wantto sell the mailboxes the way I
want to sell them.
Um, you know, I don't have tobe beholden to the company in
(31:30):
that respect, but in some waysyou are, because they're giving
you free inventory on aconsignment model.
So, it's like are you reallyindependent as 1099?
You're not quite W2.
So, where's the trade-off here?
You make for a good billboardadvertiser, but where's the
(31:50):
commitment to the backend?
Is there a co-op program?
Is there a?
How do you sell more?
At the end of the day, you cantake all the fluff out because
you can start discussing.
You know cost per lead, perconversion.
You know SEO, CRMs.
You know like URLs, pos, everyacronym you can think of on
(32:12):
earth.
And like the guy we talkedabout today, he said hey, I
don't know what SEO is, but Ilove to build sheds and I want
to build more sheds.
But I'm not a sales guy and Ineed help on that.
And that's why the dealernetwork, that's why people go
and they find the dealer network.
But what's happening is we'rein this unusual place in history
(32:36):
where the dot-com boom happenedin the 90s and we're 25 years,
35 years later and we'restarting to realize things like
just having a website doesn'tmatter anymore, because really
if you have a website, it onlymatters if people find it.
There's so many people competingfor that and that's what SEO is
(32:58):
right.
Like you're looking to index onGoogle and so, like people call
us and they say I need awebsite, I'm finally ready to do
it.
Right, I'm 25 years late, butI'm finally ready to do it and
I'm just going to walk in.
I'm going to give you the leastamount of money and I'm going
to show up on top right, like,oh, you're not going to pass the
(33:21):
25 years of experience thatpeople have been doing, you know
.
So, like, I'm glad you're hereat the party, but I can't catch
you up all at one time.
So, like you know, we gothrough this education process
with people.
Every time we talk to them,it's like well, do you want a
new website?
They're like yes.
So, then you almost have to askthe question do you want that
website to be seen?
And they're almost offended bythat question because it's like
(33:41):
duh, why else would I want awebsite?
You're like okay, well, we needto discuss that.
It's.
Having a website, having itseen are two different things.
It exists if you tell people gohere, you know, but are they
finding it in keyword search.
You know, is it, is it showingup?
And yeah, so there's a there'san educational side even to that
(34:02):
that I admire.
So, I love pursuing thoseavenues.
But if you've got someone comingout knocking on your door
they're saying, hey, look, wewould like to set up a couple of
display locks, yeah, and we'dlike for you to sell, I would
like to think that if you'regoing to say, yes, I will sell
(34:24):
those, that you're going to havesome level of dedication to
actually making that happen.
They're not just going to sitthere for three years and you're
not going to sell any buildingsand you're going to move on.
You know, thinking about myexperience and we kind of talked
about this off air you know,thinking about this experience,
I remember becoming the state ofIllinois, one of the this
company's first.
We were the very first dealerlocation in Illinois.
(34:50):
This is a good company.
I really liked the company.
I mean I still think they're agood company and surprise,
surprise, you know they'reinvolved in sheds too, because
it's kind of sometimes hard tomaintain the autonomy between
different companies.
But like, I remember one insituations specifically where we
sold a big steel building, thebiggest steel building we ever
(35:12):
sold to a farmer.
The guy passed away the nextday.
It was like oh, this isterrible.
You know like we took down thepercentage.
We went out there.
We found out from his son.
We went out there.
We said look, we're sorry, itwas awesome meeting your dad.
We'll just refund the money,cancel the order.
We appreciate you giving us achance.
He said no, wait a minute.
This is my dad's last dyingwish is to buy this.
(35:34):
If this goes well, we need fiveor six more.
We were like, okay, we'll keepit going, you know, and we call
the company, we tell them treatthis with sensitivity and we're
wondering is that just in oneear and out the other?
Cause?
I'm not sure, cause all of asudden they showed up to build
it and they forgot half themetal for the building.
And then they got told well,we're going to put you back on
(35:55):
rotation because it's going tobe six weeks before we can get
back out here.
So how do you think thatsituation went?
And you are.
You have no control over this asa third party, but you get all
the negative reviews you get allthe negative Facebook reviews,
you get all the negative Googlereviews, you get all the nasty
phone calls and for some, thementality is if you don't like
(36:20):
that, don't be a dealer of steelbuildings, which is what we did
.
Ultimately, we just decided,you know, after moving into the
top 10 place the first year asone of their top 10 sellers and
winning an award within thefirst year, we decided well then
, we're not going to sell thatanymore until we can get some
consistency, you know and.
(36:41):
I'm encouraging people to dothat.
I'm saying this was my story.
I'm telling that you know myexperience.
Ultimately, I feel like thatcompany's rebounded pretty well.
They do pretty good.
I hear nothing but good thingsabout them.
But I think about how relatablemy story is and my sales
experience with so many othercompanies.
My story is and my salesexperience with so many other
companies.
(37:02):
And the question is like, whyare like, like, why is no one
taking the bull by the horns inthat particular situation and
saying you know, like we'regoing to offer extreme customer
service, we're going to makeraving fans, like we're not
going to let someone down whensomething like that happens,
we're not going to forget halfof the metal of the building we
(37:22):
drove three hours to install.
You know, where does thecommunication get so far off?
Is it this anticipation to growand beat the rest?
Because that's not the key tosuccess for long-term?
Is it To win now?
It's to win always.
So, you know, um, I I'mprobably lost on where the
(37:42):
question started, in the origin,but I think my experience no, I
think that's one thing thatspecifically stuck out to me,
that I was like that was eight,ten years ago.
I'm still hearing these storiestoday yeah, you know, in 2025
and I'm like, I'm struggling tounderstand, like who's going to
(38:04):
own that space?
Jared Ledford (38:06):
Yeah, and I can tell you we've gotten a lot of
feedback.
I mean we probably get by a lot.
I mean probably two or threeemails I've been getting a week
from different shed guys andgals.
And you know, what I'll tellyou is your story is not
uncommon.
Your story is pretty, prettymuch on point.
I mean I get it all the timefrom shed guys that I know like
(38:29):
how have you made this metalbuilding thing work for so long?
And you know we see guys comeand go, but you've been pretty
consistent with it and you knowa lot of it comes down to what
we've talked about already islike keeping up with.
You know exactly what you saidpick a horse and stick with it.
You know, build yourrelationships out.
I mean, I can tell you themanufacturers we work with.
We know they're in salt brews,we know we know what to do and
(38:52):
what not to do.
We know that there'smanufacturers all over the place
and we're happy to work with alot of them.
Um, you know some of them alittle bit more than others, but
the fact of the matter is thatthe ones that we know do certain
things well, those are the oneswho get those specific type of
buildings.
If we know that one companytends to do vertical sheeting a
little bit better than anothercompany and has pretty quick
(39:12):
lead times in the area.
I can tell you the one thingthat I learned, um from my buddy
, lee, and I'm going to give leea shout out over at, uh, direct
metal structures, I think iswhere he's at now, so cheap plug
for those guys.
Lee has been an absolute legendto me in this industry and been
a very good advocate and friend.
When he didn't have to be,quite honestly, he's been on the
(39:36):
manufacturing side, the dealerside.
He's kind of all over the place.
But he told me one time he said, Jared, don't care about
commission rates, care aboutwhere the building's coming from
and where it's going.
And I said what do you mean?
He said well, you know, if yougot a building you're selling in
Indianapolis, Indiana, and yougot a manufacturer in Indiana,
don't sell them the buildingthat's coming from mount airy,
North Carolina, selling thebuilding that's coming from
(39:56):
Indiana.
And ever since we've done thatand that's pretty much our
golden rule here is if we have amanufacturer we trust, within
three hours that's the buildingthey're getting, and if they
don't like it they can buy fromsomebody else.
Hey guys, this is Jared with theSteel Kings podcast.
Today's episode is part one ofa two-part episode.
Be sure to listen next week forpart two.
Hey guys, what's up.
This is Jared and this is theSteel Kings podcast, coming at
you with another new episode,and wanted to let you guys know
right out front the good folksat J Money will help you out
with your building needs as faras financing.
If you're a shed dealer, ametal building manufacturer, if
you're an independent contractorworking on home improvement
(00:52):
projects, check out the teamover at J Money.
Our friends Joel Katie and thewhole team over there are happy
to assist you with all of yourfinancing needs.
We have a very, very, veryspecial guest today on the Steel
Kings podcast.
I am super excited and this guyyou're going to recognize him
(01:14):
right out of the rim, but I'mnot going to waste too much more
time, we're going to bring himinto the studio.
The podfather of the Shed Geekpodcast network, my friend
Shannon the Shed Geek,How are you today, brother
Shannon?
Shannon Latham (01:34):
Man, doing good, appreciate the hype.
I like the energy.
I like the music.
I like the street art.
I love what you guys are doingwith the visual.
For those who don't tune in tothe visual aspect of the show,
it's really cool.
Lots of neat stuff going on thescreen, kind of making me
envious over here in mybuzzsprout world.
(01:54):
But that zoom has served uswell.
But I got to look at StreamYardman.
It looks you guys are making itlook look cool A podfather.
I like it.
I had a buddy called me but hesaid he said you're like the Joe
Rogan of sheds.
Yeah man, yeah I you're makingus.
You're making us kind of yourco-pilots on this journey with
(02:15):
the shed geek podcast network.
Um, we were, we were honored tobe featured.
Um, you guys have, uh, heard ustalk to guys over at Sheds
Direct on a previous episode wewere featured as their podcast
of the month for the month ofMay.
So, if there's any Sheds Directdealers listening and checking
us out, we appreciate you guys.
For sure Shannon was tellingyou guys we're on YouTube, we're
(02:36):
on Spotify, we're on prettymuch every one of your
podcasting platforms.
So, if you're checking us outon YouTube, check us out in
audio format.
We've also got a plain communitydial-in version.
We send out a newsletter.
So, check out shedgeek.
com to sign up for thenewsletter and get all of your
notifications from the team atshedgeek.
com.
(02:56):
Shannon brother, you are hereon a mission today and I am
super excited.
We're starting a little bit ofa journey in Facebook and you
know, for those of you who don'tknow Shannon, I'm going to give
him the floor for a minute ortwo here just to give you a
background on himself.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyou, brother, and what you're
(03:17):
up to.
Yeah.
So, in short, man, it's just,you know, know, the best way I
know how to explain it is, youknow, walking.
This journey has been so unique.
It's.
I keep saying I need to write abook about this at some point
because you, you know, truth isstranger than fiction.
(03:39):
Honestly, and uh, I think youknow shed geek, the shed geek
brand, all the affiliates andpartnerships and things that's
come along the way, you know,has really surprised me in a way
that, like, if you give ahundred percent of yourself to
something like it, it returns.
You know what I mean.
Like it returns, like there'sno way that you can't go out and
(04:01):
pull yourself into an industryand to people, um, and then like
, see the, the fruits of thatlabor, and that's kind of,
that's kind of you know what'shappened with shed geek and how
that connection has evenhappened with, uh, you and Eric
and just so many others alongthis journey.
Uh, it's really just pouringyourself into something
completely and I did that withsheds and along the way in that
(04:24):
journey, all of a sudden I foundsheds is like a common
denominator, but there's so manyother things that exist.
Whenever you say, like, I'm ashed dealer, you know, or shed
manufacturer, you know.
I started my journey inpurchasing as a procurement
coordinator and I was trying tosave money and order material
and learn about all thedifferent aspects of it and went
(04:48):
into sales, you know, end up insales management, you know, had
had a couple of trucks and lotsand then kind of started
realizing like wait a minute,like not my, not my area of
expertise necessarily.
So, it was like the marketingworld, the advertising world,
(05:09):
the building relationships andthis like honestly, man, it was
like, hey, why not start apodcast?
I'm listening to podcasts,listening all these people talk,
and I'm like people areconstantly asking for more
resources.
I want more resources, wantmore knowledge, want more
information and, uh, you know.
So that's what we did.
And then it took off on thisother whole journey of marketing
(05:31):
and rentals and financing ande-commerce and partnerships with
3d configurators and, um, uh,other podcasts and other
networks and yeah, so it's,god's been good man.
It's just been like this reallyunique and, you know,
interesting industry that haslanded me in some really cool
(05:54):
positions and, yeah, I'mthankful for it.
At the end of the day, I'msuper thankful for the listeners
.
Jared Ledford (06:01):
Yeah, one of the things that we talked about this
past week, uh, you know, wetalk probably at least two or
three times a month off offlineand we we get into these zones
where we get in these long,really long conversations, and
one of the things we talkedabout this week was creating
content that we'd want to listento.
Right, it isn't necessarily foreverybody.
So, you know, if you'relistening to us and you don't
(06:24):
like what we have to say, we'rethe first ones to tell you check
somebody else out.
But give us a shot.
You know we're, we're, we'reencouraging you to.
You know, do better with yourbusiness.
I know a lot of the stuff thatwe do, you know, feels canned
and, uh, you know, kind of, youknow coachy and all that kind of
stuff.
But you know, Shannon and Iwere talking about a little bit.
That's what we want to do.
We want to motivate you guys.
(06:44):
You know, for me personally, Ihave been on a single shed lot
with 15 buildings and beenstruggling to find a way to do
business, been struggling tofind a way through Facebook,
marketplace or through.
You know, even back then Iwasn't even doing any SEO or
anything like that.
I mean, this was a one man showand a lot Eric was the same way
.
We were just slinging sheds,trying to figure out a way to
(07:07):
make a dollar for the next dayto sling more sheds.
And you know, I know there's alot of you out there that are
like that, that are listening tothe podcast and checking us out
.
We are an open book, Shannonand I both Eric as well.
You know I've been putting mynew Steel Kings email address
out here for you guys.
Drop me an email.
I am an open book.
Shannon is too.
(07:27):
I think your info is shedgeek.
com For anybody that's wantingto find out more about the
business and find out more aboutsheds and steel buildings.
That's really what we're herefor.
We want to be an open book, wewant topics, we want questions.
If you guys have anything youwant us to talk about, I am more
than open to.
You know, having a question andanswer type of thing like ask,
(07:49):
ask the shed geek anything, orask you, ask the steel kings
anything.
You know, if you guys havequestions, we want to answer
them.
We want to be an open book.
Um, the reason why we're heretoday is, uh, Shannon started a
new facebook group and, forthose of you who are part of the
Shed Sales ProfessionalsFacebook group.
If you guys are selling steelbuildings the Steel Structures
(08:11):
Sales Professionals page onFacebook check that out.
That is Steel Structures SalesProfessionals.
Shannon and I are moderators inthat group.
Just another avenue for us tocommunicate with each other,
maybe bounce ideas off of oneanother.
Again, open book.
There are plenty of buildingsto be sold, both metal and wood.
(08:33):
We've got pole, barn and postframe guys out there too.
We just want to open up thefloodgates and really create a
community of people that cancommunicate with one another,
work together on projects.
I might not be able to dosomething that somebody else can
do and vice versa, and ifthere's a way that we can work
together and make everybody'sbusiness harmonious, we want to
do that.
Shannon, why did you start thepage?
(08:55):
What was your why behind it?
Shannon Latham (08:58):
Yeah, man.
So, I had that page.
It was kind of set in dormantfrom a different, a different
avenue.
So, there was about 1,000,1,500 people already in that
private group and, as you guysknow, you know Facebook kind of
opens up the algorithms forprivate groups.
They kind of participate andwant others to participate.
In that.
There's no, you know, you'retypically not getting sold
(09:23):
anything there.
It's not like a Facebook pagewhere you're kind of like a pay
to play, where they want youactually in the, in the, in the
meta business suite and thingslike that.
You know.
So so I thought, well, educationis really kind of like near and
dear to my heart.
I really feel like education isthe thing that drives us all
forward.
It's the thing that we're, thatwe're missing.
Forgive me, I'm getting over acode here, so so my thoughts are
(09:49):
you know, iron sharpens iron.
You know the, the, the mostread book of all times, the
Bible, the second most read bookis man's search for meaning.
You know, like people arealways seeking education.
I always want to learn more and,and you know, when you put
yourself out there and you'revulnerable to put yourself out
there on a podcast, put yourselfout there on a in a magazine
article, put yourself out thereas a speaker at an event, uh,
(10:13):
even creating a private grouppage and like trying to like
harvest some rules, to likecreate content.
You're doing most of thesethings you're doing for free.
Most of these things you'redoing because you're passionate
about it.
And then, like you'revulnerable because, like you're,
you're showing your things.
You're doing for free.
Most of these things you'redoing because you're passionate
about it.
And then, like you'revulnerable because, like you're,
you're, you're showing yourcard, you're putting yourself
out there and what I've found is, you know, you get like a 90%
(10:34):
participation rate between thepeople who really want to do
more, learn more, be better,increase the value of the
industry, make it a morecohesive industry, learn how to
be collaborators and competitorsin a respectful way and change
the mindset of like the dog eatdog business world.
Constantly that exists, havingsome of that hunger, but not
(10:58):
having it so much so that it youknow you lose who you are, and
basically it's like, hey, let'screate some content, let's,
let's put something out there,let's have conversation.
Like I encourage people to goto the steel structures, uh,
sales professionals, to learnmore about that, have good,
healthy debate, call things outwhen necessary in a professional
(11:19):
manner, uh, but give more thanyou take away from it, right,
you know?
So like, so, like you know, andthat's the idea too with a
podcast or with anything thatwe're doing so, like, I
encourage people to go on thereand have conversation, but
sometimes you got to bringawareness.
You got to bring awareness oryou got to stay top of mind and
awareness is, it exists, it'sthere now.
(11:41):
Maybe you didn't know it wasthere, maybe to hit your, your
page at some point, but you cango, seek it out, put a few
things in there.
We want to make sure we keepthat limited to sell steel sales
professionals.
We don't just want randompeople coming in, because why
would they want to be there tolearn about how to sell steel
structures?
You know, that's not the targetwe're going for.
We're going for the B2B marketand getting people to just kind
(12:05):
of have conversation.
Trust me, there's plenty ofconversation that happens around
steel structures and the salesof steel structures, so why not
get it on there where we canhave a conversation that helps
everybody?
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Jared Ledford (13:30):
Yeah, I think it's good to forum.
I'm a big Reddit reader.
I really love Reddit.
I think I go there for justabout any major question I have.
I try to seek out somebody elsewho's dealt with the same
problems that I've dealt with orthe same.
Whatever I'm looking to do,whether it be install a door at
my house or upload a YouTubevideo or put together
(13:51):
information for this podcast youknow, it really comes down to a
situation where content that wecan provide to each other is
very valuable.
It's innately valuable, right.
It's one of those things whereif I don't know and somebody can
teach me, then I'm that muchmore dangerous going forward.
(14:12):
And you know, one of the thingsthat you and I have talked about
at length, right, Shannon, isthe sink to the bottom.
You know that lower level thatis kind of metal building sales.
You know, I remember when I wastelling some of my closest
friends about my decision to gointo metal buildings and sheds,
(14:33):
they thought I was crazy.
They just thought I was crazy.
And what we've done here, youknow, at Dayton Barns, over the
last five, six years, is we'vegone from a group of independent
contractors to W2.
You guys have heard me talkabout this.
I'm passionate about it.
I think if you pay people to doa job and you train them well,
they will do it at the best oftheir ability, and if they can't
(14:56):
, you know, unfortunately noteverybody can sell a steel
building online.
But if you do it and you do itwell, chances are you're going
to be somewhat successful at it.
I want to get your opinion onthat.
Shannon, you know we talkedabout that offline coming into
today's conversation.
The 1099 versus W2 what's your?
You know where you actcurrently on that yeah, I want
(15:17):
to touch.
Shannon Latham (15:18):
I, I want to talk about that.
I want to touch on.
You said reddit, dude, google,just, you know, purchased reddit
, you know, for the purpose oflike, wanting to have good,
authentic, you know contentthat's not just ai generated.
So, what an interesting, youknow situation there where
you're seeking information andit's funny that people are
seeking information from actualpeople.
(15:39):
That's why we go to YouTube,that's why we go to Google, it's
why Google has becomecommonplace in our you know, in
our conversation.
You know it.
It wasn't even originally aGoogle, you know, like Google's
like a million zeros or whateverit was.
It was called back rub, you,you know.
And why was it called back rub?
You know, because the backlinks.
(15:59):
There's so many interestingthings you know to learn as you
dive into the tech world andthings like that.
But thanks to your question on,yeah, the 1099 aspect, it's
something that we run into inthe shed side and the steel side
all the time, because a lot oftimes a shed manufacturer will
have, you know, uh, uh, and aconsignment model that's not
(16:22):
really a floor plan model likeyou see in the car industry, um,
and it feels like, you know, wekind of follow suit.
We're always 10 years behind thecar industry, right, you know
on, know on what they're doing.
And so, the question becomesyou know, are you selling steel
only?
Are you selling sheds?
Are you selling other productsas well?
But those two come up andcompliment each other almost as
(16:45):
cousins, right, you know, steel,sheds, sheds, steel, and
they're both.
You know they're, they're,they're both solving, know
they're, they're both solving aneed, they're, they're typically
exist for the purpose ofcovering something or storing
something.
So, uh, storage for access orfor excess, uh, rather, content
(17:05):
that we, we just happen toacquire, uh, the American dream,
right, uh, you know, buy more,buy more, buy more, find a place
, no doubt no doubt you know,but why?
but why 1099?
And it's gosh, it's.
It's such a big conversation itcould probably be a podcast all
on its own.
It's um, you know.
(17:26):
I think the manufacturer justhas to kind of like, determine,
like, what is their, what istheir, why?
You know, what is their, whatis their why?
You know, what is their mission, vision, values, what's their
value proposition?
Why are they getting intobuilding steel buildings, you
know?
And if they are going to buildthese steel buildings, what are
they trying to do?
Are they trying to do thisMcDonald's franchise model where
(17:46):
they go out on property and,you know, set up these locations
?
Because the one thing that'sinteresting to me about steel
versus sheds is the amount ofinventory that is on the ground
for sheds.
You know the prefab aspect tosheds.
You can build it one side, youcan build new construction
buildings, but there's a massiveamount of prefab buildings that
(18:10):
exist for inventory purposesand with steel, steel, you don't
really see that.
You know, you see them sell offdisplay models and because of
that, typically what happens isthey're looking for someone with
a half- acre of ground thatowns a body shop and they're
like, hey, we set up a couplebuildings out here, do you want
to sell them?
And people are like what's itcost me?
(18:31):
What didn't cost you anything?
What if I don't sell anything?
Also, does it really cost youanything?
Ironically, no floor plan.
Do what you can.
And some people just grasp thatconcept and either run with it
or do nothing.
In other words, if you've got asteel building, manufacturers
(18:52):
got a thousand locations thatthey're selling from.
They may have a hundred activeand then have 900 locations out
there that just have an oldbuilding that's slowly falling
apart over time, that no one'sreally putting any commitment
into, into selling.
But then you've got thoseperformers, those top 100.
(19:14):
And then of those top 100, youmight have 10 like dynamite, you
know salespeople or whatever,and they're just taking the bull
by the horns and saying I seewhere this can do well, and I've
seen car guys do so well thatthey say I'm getting out of the
car industry, I can sell thisproduct better, I can sell this
line, you know better.
(19:34):
So, I guess what I'm saying isit really depends on the
manufacturer and their mindset,their mentality.
But as far as the dealer, youknow you're an independent
contractor.
You are an independent 1099contractor, which means you know
you have the ability to sellwhat you want, do what you want,
(19:55):
be in control of your brand,you know, as opposed to so, so.
So, the W2 side is like wouldyou do better investing into
those hundred productive this is?
These are the questions thatcome to mind for me.
Would you do better dedicatingyourself to the 100 dealers that
(20:16):
are dedicated to selling yourproduct and not worry about the
900?
But sometimes, maybe it'saesthetics, it looks better,
it's optics maybe, rather thanaesthetics, and it's easy to say
, well, we're in 1,000 differentplaces.
But if they don't have, youknow, professional sales
training or whatever they're,just they're thumbing their way
through it.
And you said it, you said it ashed lot before 15 sheds.
(20:39):
You're trying to figure outFacebook.
You're trying to figure out,okay, what does it look like if
I yeah, double top plate, singletop plate, 16 oc?
You know you're doing the samething in metal, right?
You're trying to figure out,like out, okay, what is a hat
channel?
What does that mean exactlywhat?
is this.
You know what I mean.
Why is 12 gauge better than 14gauge?
(21:01):
That doesn't make sense.
Aren't we going down.
There's so much productknowledge that you have to
consume outside of even yoursales knowledge.
It's just also interesting tome.
Jared Ledford (21:11):
Yeah.
Yeah, buddy, I can't agree withyou more than I do when it comes
to things like the 1099 versusW2 thing.
I think what I really strugglewith exactly what you said.
I've been gosh, I think,probably a dozen manufacturing
houses over the last two yearsall across the United States and
(21:34):
I hear the same things frommanufacturers and I'm always
asking what am I going to haveto do from a dealer perspective
to be in your top 10?
And if you have a thousanddealers, what's your top,
where's your gross coming from?
And almost always it's 10% isthe top coming from?
And almost always it's 10% isthe top.
(21:56):
You know, 10% does 90%.
Basically, so the top 10% does90% of the sales and I think
what you end up with over time,at least from our perspective,
we're in a pretty competitivemarket.
We're not, you know, we're not,you know we're not in Mount Airy
, right?
I mean, most people that arereally competitive in the
industry are down in Mount Airy,North Carolina.
For those of you that don'tknow, that's kind of like the
(22:16):
heartland for metal buildingsTons of manufacturers, tons of
dealers.
It really gets happening downin Mount Airy within a couple
hours of us.
We've got probably a dozen ormore dealers within a couple
hours of our location here inUrbana, and what I find more
(22:37):
often than not is I want to do aprocess, a sort of way, from
top to bottom.
I want to advertise a sort ofway.
I want to market a sort of way.
I want to get customers a sortof way.
I mean every single process,how we do our builds, how we
design them, the 3D designs thatwe do, but what you end up
finding is not everybody ismaybe as professional as they
(23:02):
might need to be, and what youend up with is you end up with
this kind of muddying of thewaters where it hurts everybody,
and I cannot stress that enough.
You know, if you're doing it,if you're a single man show and
you're successful, I applaud you.
That is not what this is about.
What this is about to me is thepeople who love this industry,
(23:24):
like myself and Shannon and Ericand so many people that we've
met.
I mean goodness, Shannon,you've met more people than me,
but I've met enough people overthe last few years to know that
we are in a very, very strongindustry.
We're in an industry that hasan immense amount of talent, and
what I want to try to do is Iwant to try to encourage those
who don't know any better.
(23:45):
It's really the fact that theyhaven't been taught.
Just like you said, the salestraining is lacking.
It's not just a matter of youknow, I'm not going to tell
somebody they don't love whatthey do.
That's not what I'm here to do.
What I'm here to do is to tellyou that if you're doing it a
(24:05):
sort of way, keep doing it, butdo it better.
Even if you're a number onedealer for your manufacturer and
you're buttoned up and all youremployees are on salary and you
can do whatever you want to do,there's still something you can
do better.
We try to do better here atDayton Barns every day.
You guys have heard me say it.
We have a team in-house,they're on a payroll, we W2 our
guys and gals and we reallystrive to give you the same
(24:28):
experience from any one of oursales staff.
That way it's on point, pointbrand wise.
It's on point with ourmanufacturers expectations.
We're not giving customersfalse expectations and we're not
over-promising andunder-delivering.
I think that's the biggestthing.
So, from a dealer to amanufacturer perspective, you
know the 1099 thing's fine,manufacturers paying 1099s.
(24:51):
But I think that the futurereally is manufacturers going
in-house, looking at insidesales teams, looking at
potentially partnering withtheir top dealers to really do
revolutionary next level things.
Because what we're seeing rightnow and I want to get your
opinion on this, because you'rea marketing guy I mean you do a
lot of your business with theguys over at Shed Geek Marketing
(25:13):
.
Dylan and his team are doing afantastic job.
Quick shout out to those guysIf you need help with your
marketing products, give theguys over there at Shed Geek
Marketing a call.
I can tell you it doesn't hurtto make a phone call and it
doesn't cost anything for aconsultation.
They'll give you someover-the-top view on what they
might be able to do to help youout, and they're doing some
(25:33):
pretty revolutionary things inthe shed space and steel
buildings.
What I can tell you my mainquestion to you, Shannon, is we
work with manufacturers allacross the United States.
I'll keep those for anothertime but all the manufacturers
that we work with are competingagainst one another in a space.
So, let's just use Pepsi andCoke as an example.
Pepsi and Coke competeeverywhere.
(25:55):
You see Pepsi and Coke in everysupermarket, grocery store.
You see them in every gasstation.
So, if you've got twomanufacturers and let's just say
I sell for both thosemanufacturers, I'm spending
money on marketing, they'respending money on marketing.
What we end up doing iscompeting with each other,
driving our CPRs up cost perresults.
(26:21):
For those of you who are new tothe business or need lingo,
cost per result is how much itcosts you to secure a raw lead.
So, for us, a raw lead is can Iget a building quote?
Am I in your service area?
I'm interested in a building,that kind of a thing.
What we do on our end is wehave in-house lead generation.
You're gonna contact and talkto somebody on our team in-house
.
They're gonna take the lead inreal time.
Can I get a building quote?
Absolutely, we're here to help.
(26:41):
You Just need your size and zipcode and we go from there.
We qualify the lead and it goesto one of our project managers.
But what I've been trying toconvince manufacturers-
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Jared Ledford (28:38):
Have the manufacturer house leads, send
the leads out to their dealersor work exclusively with a sales
team, because we are competingagainst each other in a space
that is costing us thousands ofdollars a month.
Shannon, is that the way yousee it?
Because it's the way I see it.
I witnessed it every day.
Shannon Latham (28:55):
My ads manager goes crazy and, uh, you know,
I'm trying to get cost perresult down, trying to give
customers a streamlined processyeah, I mean, you know it's so
much, so many things to unpackthere, um, but you know I would
say yes from a marketingperspective.
(29:16):
Um, you know it's it's kind ofpay to play.
We've had a couple of peopleask us you know, like, what do
you?
You're working with someoneover here, what do you?
You know what do you do with us?
You know what's your dedicationlevel to us and it's like, well
, you know, if your ad budget's$15,000 a month, like a company
we spoke with yesterday, versus$1,000 a month, you know
(29:38):
yesterday, versus a thousanddollars a month, you know, well,
you're probably going to have15 times more visibility versus,
you know, the thousand dollarsa month.
Guy, it's not a reflection ofour marketing or any marketing
that you're using, whether it'sus or someone else.
You're just going to have morevisibility whenever you have the
functionality to get in frontof people, more Add copy, all
(30:01):
those things matter.
But in reality, from a Googleand meta perspective, if you're
paying to get in front of thatmany people, you're going to
consume a certain, you know,like, amount of leads, of leads.
(30:23):
So, you know, yes, it all tiesinto the 1099 thing, because
even never we think about.
You know the, the thousanddealer network.
You know, and each one of thosedealers are branding something
different.
You know we're Jared steelsheds for Shannon steel sheds.
You know I say this all thetime but putting on my consult a
, a consultation hat, if I was,if I were giving you advice as a
1099, you know steelmanufacturer, you know I would
(30:47):
say maintain your brand in caseyou want to have a different
vendor.
But if you just switch vendorsevery time somebody gives you
more percent on the sale, you'regoing to run through and you're
probably going to get a badname for yourself after a while
and people aren't going to wantto bring you free stuff.
But you know for you to sell.
But even if you, even if you dosee, with sheds it's different
(31:08):
because they're prefab and youcan purchase, you can wholesale
purchase.
You know, and then you ownthose and you can do what you
want and have your own rent, own.
You can have your marketing.
You can have your own.
You know own, rent, own.
You can have your marketing.
You can have your own.
You know, whatever you own them, I, if I go, buy 10, you know
mailboxes, you know, and I wantto sell the mailboxes the way I
want to sell them.
Um, you know, I don't have tobe beholden to the company in
(31:30):
that respect, but in some waysyou are, because they're giving
you free inventory on aconsignment model.
So, it's like are you reallyindependent as 1099?
You're not quite W2.
So, where's the trade-off here?
You make for a good billboardadvertiser, but where's the
(31:50):
commitment to the backend?
Is there a co-op program?
Is there a?
How do you sell more?
At the end of the day, you cantake all the fluff out because
you can start discussing.
You know cost per lead, perconversion.
You know SEO, CRMs.
You know like URLs, pos, everyacronym you can think of on
(32:12):
earth.
And like the guy we talkedabout today, he said hey, I
don't know what SEO is, but Ilove to build sheds and I want
to build more sheds.
But I'm not a sales guy and Ineed help on that.
And that's why the dealernetwork, that's why people go
and they find the dealer network.
But what's happening is we'rein this unusual place in history
(32:36):
where the dot-com boom happenedin the 90s and we're 25 years,
35 years later and we'restarting to realize things like
just having a website doesn'tmatter anymore, because really
if you have a website, it onlymatters if people find it.
There's so many people competingfor that and that's what SEO is
(32:58):
right.
Like you're looking to index onGoogle and so, like people call
us and they say I need awebsite, I'm finally ready to do
it.
Right, I'm 25 years late, butI'm finally ready to do it and
I'm just going to walk in.
I'm going to give you the leastamount of money and I'm going
to show up on top right, like,oh, you're not going to pass the
(33:21):
25 years of experience thatpeople have been doing, you know
.
So, like, I'm glad you're hereat the party, but I can't catch
you up all at one time.
So, like you know, we gothrough this education process
with people.
Every time we talk to them,it's like well, do you want a
new website?
They're like yes.
So, then you almost have to askthe question do you want that
website to be seen?
And they're almost offended bythat question because it's like
(33:41):
duh, why else would I want awebsite?
You're like okay, well, we needto discuss that.
It's.
Having a website, having itseen are two different things.
It exists if you tell people gohere, you know, but are they
finding it in keyword search.
You know, is it, is it showingup?
And yeah, so there's a there'san educational side even to that
(34:02):
that I admire.
So, I love pursuing thoseavenues.
But if you've got someone comingout knocking on your door
they're saying, hey, look, wewould like to set up a couple of
display locks, yeah, and we'dlike for you to sell, I would
like to think that if you'regoing to say, yes, I will sell
(34:24):
those, that you're going to havesome level of dedication to
actually making that happen.
They're not just going to sitthere for three years and you're
not going to sell any buildingsand you're going to move on.
You know, thinking about myexperience and we kind of talked
about this off air you know,thinking about this experience,
I remember becoming the state ofIllinois, one of the this
company's first.
We were the very first dealerlocation in Illinois.
(34:50):
This is a good company.
I really liked the company.
I mean I still think they're agood company and surprise,
surprise, you know they'reinvolved in sheds too, because
it's kind of sometimes hard tomaintain the autonomy between
different companies.
But like, I remember one insituations specifically where we
sold a big steel building, thebiggest steel building we ever
(35:12):
sold to a farmer.
The guy passed away the nextday.
It was like oh, this isterrible.
You know like we took down thepercentage.
We went out there.
We found out from his son.
We went out there.
We said look, we're sorry, itwas awesome meeting your dad.
We'll just refund the money,cancel the order.
We appreciate you giving us achance.
He said no, wait a minute.
This is my dad's last dyingwish is to buy this.
(35:34):
If this goes well, we need fiveor six more.
We were like, okay, we'll keepit going, you know, and we call
the company, we tell them treatthis with sensitivity and we're
wondering is that just in oneear and out the other?
Cause?
I'm not sure, cause all of asudden they showed up to build
it and they forgot half themetal for the building.
And then they got told well,we're going to put you back on
(35:55):
rotation because it's going tobe six weeks before we can get
back out here.
So how do you think thatsituation went?
And you are.
You have no control over this asa third party, but you get all
the negative reviews you get allthe negative Facebook reviews,
you get all the negative Googlereviews, you get all the nasty
phone calls and for some, thementality is if you don't like
(36:20):
that, don't be a dealer of steelbuildings, which is what we did
.
Ultimately, we just decided,you know, after moving into the
top 10 place the first year asone of their top 10 sellers and
winning an award within thefirst year, we decided well then
, we're not going to sell thatanymore until we can get some
consistency, you know and.
(36:41):
I'm encouraging people to dothat.
I'm saying this was my story.
I'm telling that you know myexperience.
Ultimately, I feel like thatcompany's rebounded pretty well.
They do pretty good.
I hear nothing but good thingsabout them.
But I think about how relatablemy story is and my sales
experience with so many othercompanies.
My story is and my salesexperience with so many other
companies.
(37:02):
And the question is like, whyare like, like, why is no one
taking the bull by the horns inthat particular situation and
saying you know, like we'regoing to offer extreme customer
service, we're going to makeraving fans, like we're not
going to let someone down whensomething like that happens,
we're not going to forget halfof the metal of the building we
(37:22):
drove three hours to install.
You know, where does thecommunication get so far off?
Is it this anticipation to growand beat the rest?
Because that's not the key tosuccess for long-term?
Is it To win now?
It's to win always.
So, you know, um, I I'mprobably lost on where the
(37:42):
question started, in the origin,but I think my experience no, I
think that's one thing thatspecifically stuck out to me,
that I was like that was eight,ten years ago.
I'm still hearing these storiestoday yeah, you know, in 2025
and I'm like, I'm struggling tounderstand, like who's going to
(38:04):
own that space?
Jared Ledford (38:06):
Yeah, and I can tell you we've gotten a lot of
feedback.
I mean we probably get by a lot.
I mean probably two or threeemails I've been getting a week
from different shed guys andgals.
And you know, what I'll tellyou is your story is not
uncommon.
Your story is pretty, prettymuch on point.
I mean I get it all the timefrom shed guys that I know like
(38:29):
how have you made this metalbuilding thing work for so long?
And you know we see guys comeand go, but you've been pretty
consistent with it and you knowa lot of it comes down to what
we've talked about already islike keeping up with.
You know exactly what you saidpick a horse and stick with it.
You know, build yourrelationships out.
I mean, I can tell you themanufacturers we work with.
We know they're in salt brews,we know we know what to do and
(38:52):
what not to do.
We know that there'smanufacturers all over the place
and we're happy to work with alot of them.
Um, you know some of them alittle bit more than others, but
the fact of the matter is thatthe ones that we know do certain
things well, those are the oneswho get those specific type of
buildings.
If we know that one companytends to do vertical sheeting a
little bit better than anothercompany and has pretty quick
(39:12):
lead times in the area.
I can tell you the one thingthat I learned, um from my buddy
, lee, and I'm going to give leea shout out over at, uh, direct
metal structures, I think iswhere he's at now, so cheap plug
for those guys.
Lee has been an absolute legendto me in this industry and been
a very good advocate and friend.
When he didn't have to be,quite honestly, he's been on the
(39:36):
manufacturing side, the dealerside.
He's kind of all over the place.
But he told me one time he said, Jared, don't care about
commission rates, care aboutwhere the building's coming from
and where it's going.
And I said what do you mean?
He said well, you know, if yougot a building you're selling in
Indianapolis, Indiana, and yougot a manufacturer in Indiana,
don't sell them the buildingthat's coming from mount airy,
North Carolina, selling thebuilding that's coming from
(39:56):
Indiana.
And ever since we've done thatand that's pretty much our
golden rule here is if we have amanufacturer we trust, within
three hours that's the buildingthey're getting, and if they
don't like it they can buy fromsomebody else.
Hey guys, this is Jared with theSteel Kings podcast.
Today's episode is part one ofa two-part episode.
Be sure to listen next week forpart two.
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