June 25, 2025 • 75 mins
Ever wonder what happens when a rent-to-own customer stops paying? Or what legal pitfalls could be lurking in your contracts? The shed industry faces unique legal challenges that can make or break your business.
Attorney Nick Garrard joins us to share his 12 years of legal expertise in the rent-to-own shed industry. What began as a single case in 2012 has grown into a specialized practice serving shed businesses across the country. Nick breaks down the most common legal issues he encounters—from the dangers of "bootleg contracts" to the murky concept of "breach of peace" during repossessions.
We dive deep into the evolving role of the National Shed Rental Association (NSRA), which is transforming from simply hosting an annual conference to becoming a year-round membership organization with educational resources, legal guidance, and industry standards. This change represents the shed industry's maturation and growing need for professional development and accountability.
Perhaps most valuable is Nick's practical advice on state-specific contract requirements. Using a contract designed for one state in another jurisdiction could invalidate your entire agreement—potentially forcing you to surrender ownership of sheds to customers who've barely paid. Similarly, Nick explains why referring to rent-to-own transactions as "financing" creates serious legal complications during bankruptcy proceedings.
Whether you're a manufacturer, dealer, or rent-to-own provider, this episode delivers crucial insights to protect your business from costly legal mistakes. Join us in Knoxville this September for the NSRA conference to learn more, or connect directly with Nick at WilkinsPatterson.com for specialized guidance.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.
To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.
To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast.
Here's a message from our 2025studio sponsor.
Let's be real Running a shedbusiness today isn't just about
building great sheds.
The industry is changing fast.
We're all feeling the squeeze,competing for fewer buyers while
expectations keep climbing, andyet I hear from many of you
(00:24):
that you are still jugglingspreadsheets, clunky software or
disconnected systems.
You're spending more timemanaging chaos than actually
growing your business.
That's why I want to talk toyou about our studio sponsor,
Shed Pro.
If you're not already usingthem, I really think you should
check them out.
Shed Pro combines your 3Dconfigurator, point of sale, RTO
(00:47):
contracts, inventory,deliveries and dealer tools all
in one platform.
They even integrate cleanlyinto our Shed Geek marketing
solutions, From website lead tofinal delivery.
You can quote, contract,collect payment and schedule
delivery in one clean workflow.
Contract collect, payment andschedule delivery in one clean
workflow.
(01:07):
No more double entries, no moreback and forth chaos.
Quoting is faster, orders arecleaner and, instead of chasing
down paperwork, you're actuallyrunning your business.
And if you mention Shed Geek,you'll get 25% off all setup
fees.
Check it out at shedpro.
co/ shedgeek.
Thank you, Shed Pro, for beingour studio sponsor and, honestly
(01:30):
, for building something thathelps the industry.
Shed Geek (01:34):
Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed
Geek podcast and my.
Is this overdue?
I feel like I've reached out toyou three times and I've never
done a good job of follow up, somaybe that says a lot about my
need for improved communication,Nick.
So, thank you for meeting withus here today.
(01:54):
It's been I think it was yearone, when Kyle was still with me
the last time we interviewedyou.
So, it's, it's been a while.
Yeah, we're in year five now.
We need to make this an annualthing.
Nick Garrard (02:08):
I'm happy.
I'm happy to come anytime.
This is a great resource forthe industry, and we certainly
appreciate what you do and whatthis podcast means for the
industry.
So, yeah, anytime you need us,we'll be here for you.
Shed Geek (02:25):
Well, it's, it's been , it's, honestly, it's been a
lot of fun and it's really a lotof.
It's a fun industry to be in.
So, I appreciate those kindwords, kind words, and I'll tell
you the same thing I telleveryone else.
I'll put a check in the mailboxfor you on that note.
So, but the reality is, I'mhere with, as I am in most
situations, maybe all situationsI'm here with someone smarter
(02:47):
than me that I get to learn from, and that's why we get to do
this and have fun doing theseinterviews.
But for those who don't knowyou, let's start there.
Who are you?
What do you do?
How did you wind up in the shedindustry or have any relation
to the shed industry?
Nick Garrard (03:04):
for those who don't know you, yeah, that's a
uh, it's a good story.
I, my name is Nick Garrard.
I'm an attorney in Jackson,Mississippi.
I do, uh, work kind of all overnow for a lot of different uh
people in the rent-to-ownindustry, specifically with the
sheds.
But yeah, I'm based in Jackson,and I started in 2013, I guess
(03:33):
maybe 2012, with kind of areferral from a friend, of a
friend type deal and just tohandle a little issue with a
rent-owned shed and I thought,well, this is kind of
interesting, sure, I'll help youout.
(03:53):
And that one file turned intotwo, turned into four, and then
eight and 16.
So it just grew and grew andover the past 12 years or so it
has become, if not the,certainly probably the biggest
part of my legal practice.
(04:14):
I do some other work too withour firm.
Shed Geek (04:18):
We do some insurance defense, workers' comp defense,
but this takes up, I'd say, atleast 50 or more of my work and,
um, it's been great I startedto came to my first uh later for
a larger shed manufacturer backprobably around the same time
(04:38):
and kind of learned about youknow how there's a sales side, a
manufacturing side, thispurchasing side, this, this,
this, uh logistics side.
But then it was like, well,what about that financing side?
You know, where, where there'spayment options, you know, and,
and then, so then it's been likethis long journey inside of
(05:00):
that and I was sort ofapproached to help grow, uh, uh,
um, a network, you know, an RTOnetwork in the Midwest, you
know, and, and after that it wasjust, you know, uh, caution to
the wind, I guess you'd say,jump right in and started, and
the one thing I noticed goingfrom place to place is that
(05:24):
people would ask a lot of thesame questions and, and you know
, wanted to pull on theexperiences of others and, um it
just one guy asked me one time.
He said where can I find moreresources?
And you know, and I get in theand I get in the car and I'm
listening to podcasts andaudiobooks and music, and you
(05:45):
know podcasts probably more thananything, and, and I'm like man
, no one's done a podcast overthe shed industry.
It just seems like, you know,uh, especially as competitive as
rent owns become since, youknow, the last few years,
especially five, six years, itseemed like a relationship
(06:08):
building was very necessary,because there's a lot of
relationship building andlong-term relationship building
in this industry, and it waslike if you just show up and you
sign somebody up.
That might not always be thebest thing.
Nick Garrard (06:24):
Exactly, I'm kind of like you.
I was trying to figure out sortof how it all fit together in
the beginning too, and who thedifferent players are and how it
all fits together.
You know, it was just alearning curve in the beginning
and yeah, it was hard.
It was difficult, I'd say, inthe beginning because of that
(06:50):
Not knowing sort of therelationships behind the scenes
and what was going on and yeah.
So, the podcast became a greatresource for that.
Yeah, and then just showing upgoing to the meetings, going to
(07:15):
an APRO event, and it was like abig puzzle, you know.
You started putting the piecestogether and figuring out.
This seems like a this is amuch bigger industry.
And then then what it what Iinitially realized and it just
carried on.
Shed Geek (07:33):
It's pretty interesting it is.
It really is, and I wrote downon here a pro because I wanted
to touch on that, but I thoughtyou know, since you brought it
up, let's just dive right intothat.
ADVERTISEMENT (07:46):
Are your shed sales down?
Maybe you heard the latest newsShed Geek and ShedHub are now
working together for the benefitof the shed industry.
That's right.
Shed Geek is now a managingpartner for ShedHub.
One thing we want to instillimmediately is your confidence
in this service.
The Shed Geek and ShedHubcollaborative effort means you
(08:09):
will get the same trustedvisibility from the awesome SEO
efforts already created by theShedHub team, while resting in
the fact that Shed Geek will bestreamlining the seller
interface website and overallsimplicity of the service
interface website and overallsimplicity of the service.
ShedHub has already done thework to ensure that we are the
(08:29):
most visible shed shoppingwebsite, and here are the
analytics to prove that.
During the month of March 2025,ShedHub had over 2 million
impressions and over 41,000clicks from search.
This means someone is on theShedHub site every 60 seconds
shopping for a shed.
Why not have your sheds visible?
For just $39 per month, you canget signed up today by going to
(08:54):
www.
getshedhub.
com.
Once you sign up, a customerrepresentative will reach out
within one to two business daysto ensure that you are onboarded
and understand the programcompletely.
Don't wait, sell more shedstoday using shedhub.
com by going to www.
getshedhub.
com.
Shed Geek (09:27):
Give a little synopsis of APRO and then NSRA,
how the two differ but how theyserve sort of in the same
capacity of rental.
We're just, you know, sort of aone product side of that and
you know, like, can you?
Can you elaborate on that alittle?
Nick Garrard (09:39):
yeah, ARPO, the Association of Progressive
Rental Organizations, is sort ofour.
You know, that's the bigumbrella organization for the
rent-to-own industry.
It's a large nationalorganization and it's been
(09:59):
around for a long time, for along time, and so it serves a
wider variety of rent-to-ownorganizations.
You know, I think of itprimarily with the large
(10:24):
rent-to-own businesses, but youknow, it's just a wide variety
of people and you know fromfurniture, tv and appliances to
equipment, and you know justpretty much the gamut of
rent-to-own properties.
Probably not any real property.
I don't think.
I don't think there's any.
(10:45):
There are some real propertylike a rent-to-own house people
out there, but that's really atotally different transaction.
It really is not what we'refocused on.
But anyway, yeah, APRO is alarger organization.
But anyway, yeah, APRO is alarger organization.
(11:07):
Ed Wynn has been a generalcounsel for that.
He's been my, I'd say, mentorand really helped me to
understand a lot of what's goingon and I went to one of their
meetings.
I'm planning to go this summerto Omaha for their next meeting,
which will be great.
I'm looking forward to that.
And then we fall.
(11:29):
The NSRA now National ShedRental Association is underneath
the, I would say, APRO umbrella.
So, we're a smaller rent-to-owntrade association that really
focuses on shed manufacturers,dealers and rent-to-own
(11:50):
companies in the shed space.
So, backyard storage buildingsand there's kennels and chicken
coops and whatever else you wantto build and store things in
that we'll call a shed.
Whatever else you want to buildand store things in that we'll
call a shed.
Really, we're here to servethat industry and that's the
(12:10):
focus of this particular groupand it's where I've done the
vast majority of my work sincegetting involved.
That's sort of the difference,I think.
Shed Geek (12:41):
And I feel like you know you think about the origin
of that.
I think I heard one person askyou know, ask me the question in
the talks about NSRA is youknow, would we consider ourself
an event or an organization?
How would you, how would youdescribe that?
You know, like, cause there's,there's a lot of benefit that
comes out of the NSRA, and likethey have an annual meeting.
They have that before the ShedExpo.
Uh, you know, during Shed Week,hosted by, you know, the guys
over at uh, at uh Shed BusinessJournal, you know so.
(13:03):
So, like, there's an eventthere that you can attend.
You pay to attend and there'sbreakout sessions or speakers.
You know, I've had some of themost awesome speakers in the
last couple of years.
You know, but what is the?
What is the purpose of, how itof?
Like, what it serves?
Nick Garrard (13:20):
Well, and what's a ?
It's a good question.
It's a good time to talk aboutit because you're right, In the
past NBSRA or NSRA, has been,primarily, has been, a
conference.
I mean, that's been really whatthe organization association
(13:41):
did.
Was we put on a conferenceevery year?
And in the past, after COVID Iguess we started, I think there
was one year, maybe one year wehad to miss, I can't remember.
Then, after that, maybe since21, we've been sort of
(14:03):
piggybacking with the Shed Expo,but before that it was just a
standalone conference we did andthat was really what we did.
It was that one conference.
But starting last year, theboard met.
I mean, it's a great board ofindustry leaders, they are the
(14:28):
best people to work with, theymake my job as their attorney
very easy and they decided theyreally wanted to transform the
association into something morethan just an annual meeting.
They wanted to have memberbenefits, member meetings, more
options for members, so have afull membership section and
(14:52):
really think of ways that theassociation could impact the
industry in the next three, five, seven years, what our goals
are and how to meet those goals.
So, we've had several in-personmeetings.
We have Zoom meetings regularly.
(15:13):
In fact, I just got off onethis morning with some guys and
Tanner and some other guys withthe association that are helping
put together our new website,our new membership portal, what
that's going to look like, whatwe're going to be able to offer
(15:34):
for members, and it's reallygood, really exciting.
The ideas that have kind ofcome up from this have been
incredible.
I think you're going to see anassociation that really values
its members and really looks toprovide value to the members.
(15:57):
We've got several videos on tapthat will be available.
We've got other resources,legal resources.
We're hoping to have somevendor contacts and vendor value
to add, and the list goes on.
(16:19):
It's going to transform ourassociation from just a meeting
in the fall to a year-roundorganization that provides value
to the members, and that'swhere we're headed.
So, yeah, where we've been is,you know, is different.
(16:40):
It was, you know, it was aonce-a-year meeting and we're
really trying to transform thatand it's going to happen.
It's going to be great.
We want to have membershipofferings available and sign you
(17:07):
up, get you an NSRA memberbutton or pin or logo for your
website.
We want you to promote that youare a member of the association
, so that you know to hold eachother accountable and make sure
that the industry is moving in apositive direction for
everybody.
So that's where we've been.
The future is very bright.
It's going to be awesome, withall the guys that are involved
(17:28):
in it.
You're going to be reallyimpressed.
Shed Geek (17:32):
Well, we're certainly looking forward to it.
We've typically attended everyyear and, like I said, enjoyed
it.
And for those who are lookingto be in RTO and some of that
discussion gets wide right Likeit could be a manufacturer, you
know, who wants to maintainvertical integration governing
(17:54):
authority, just be the you knowa pro as the big umbrella.
There's kind of like thisintentionality of being, you
(18:32):
know like, just accountable toeach other as an industry.
First, is that fair to say.
Nick Garrard (18:38):
I think that's true.
Yeah, I mean, one thing tothink of, too is knock on wood,
we've avoided a lot ofgovernment oversight and
overreach and, if we can holdeach other accountable, be a
solid organization, do the rightthings.
(18:59):
There's a place for everybody,you know, that wants to be in
there's room.
There's room to grow.
The industry's continuing togrow and I think that having an
association that's strong andthat has powerful members within
(19:22):
the industry keep each other,help each other, look out for
pitfalls, look out for thingsthat are popping up across the
country we can hopefully avoidsome other watchdog group coming
in behind us and telling uswe're not doing things right,
(19:43):
and so being proactive in thatregard, I think, is going to be
important as we move forward,certainly in the next 10 years,
as we continue to grow, yeah, soI think that's a good way to
put it.
What you said is accountabilityand watching out for each other
(20:05):
and helping each other,
ADVERTISEMENT (20:08):
Are you ready to elevate your shed business to
new heights?
Your pathway to success justgot a whole lot smoother with
Shed Suite's innovativemarketing platform.
At Shed Suite, we like to thinkwe understand the shed industry
at least a little bit, and overthe last seven years we've been
building awesome software forshed businesses.
We focus first on building easyto use software to help you
(20:30):
create and track orders, likethe point of sale and after the
sale, order fulfillment.
And now we're excited toannounce our full feature CRM
all things pre-sale, you know,like prospecting and follow-up
all to empower your shed companyto market better and sell more
efficiently.
Our platform empowers you with amarketing toolkit designed to
(20:53):
amplify your online presence,engage your audience and drive
sales like never before.
Enjoy the ease of conversiontracking, email marketing,
centralized lead communicationand so much more.
Oh, and guess what?
It even comes with an iPhoneand an Android app.
With Shed Suite's marketingplatform, crafting and deploying
effective marketing campaignsis a breeze.
(21:16):
The advanced reportingfunctionality allows your team
to analyze real-time conversiondata so you can make informed
decisions and watch yourbusiness flourish.
There's no better time than nowto join the community of shed
business owners who are scalingup with Shed Suite.
It's time to turn yourmarketing efforts into real,
trackable results.
(21:36):
Visit ShedSuite.
com/ marketing to get pricing,explore the features and book a
demo.
Shed Suite is committed tobuilding top-quality software to
empower your shed business tothrive.
Shed Geek (21:51):
So, the difficult questions come now.
I suspect that you, being alawyer, you're used to that, and
look Nick say in private, howwould you address this question?
The membership is made up ofthose who also serve the
(22:21):
industry.
What kind of accountabilityexists for us as competitors to
come together with, like thisspirit of cooperation?
What can we do, you know, tohelp make sure that that is not
just in the background, like youknow, true and tested and meets
(22:45):
all of the accountabilitystandards, but even in the
foreground.
You know the optics of theindustry or the organization and
what it's doing.
What are your thoughts there?
Nick Garrard (22:58):
One thing that we really promote and push is the
idea of fair and opencompetition.
We believe in that.
We believe in organizations andtheir ability to run their
businesses and work how they seefit.
(23:18):
We're certainly not trying tocontrol that or make people do
things a certain way or anythinglike that, anything like that,
(23:39):
but we have an idea for anorganization that has goals and
has a code of conduct, I wouldsay, and best practices, some of
the ways that you can, you knowas a member organization.
These are the ideas that webelieve in and promote, not in
(24:01):
any way to limit competition,which is vital and critical that
that stays fair and open andhonest, but just developing a
sense of best practices for theindustry as a whole, I think, is
really the way to approach that.
Shed Geek (24:29):
No, I think that's evident.
It seems to be if you go to theevents, like we've attended the
events.
I certainly encourage people toattend the events because you
know it's not just what you canlearn individually or benefit
from your own company, but it'sreally about being as strong as
your weakest link Right and,like the industry as a whole,
(25:16):
sort of benefiting from thespirit of cooperation you know,
of working together for what'sbest for the customer, what's
best for you know the.
You know if someone wants to go, if someone wants to attend, or
even if someone wants to beinvolved, whether that's a board
member, a planning committee.
You know all these differentthings.
What are, you know?
How do they, how do they throwtheir hat in that ring?
How do they make it to the, tothe event?
What does that look like?
And then, like what if theywant to be more involved or
choose to be more involved?
What does that look like?
And then, mike, what if theywant to be more involved or
(25:36):
choose to be more involved?
What does that look?
Nick Garrard (25:40):
I was.
Actually, I was pulling this up, but so currently we still have
the website is nbsra.
com.
That's going to be changing inthe near future.
The new website's called thensra.
com, t-h-e-n-s-r-a.
(26:01):
com, and there's a conferencebutton at the top where you can
click and register now to attendthe conference.
So that's up and live, which isgreat, and you know what we'll
do is, if you want to be moreinvolved, we take nominations
(26:28):
for the advisory board and theboard.
I guess we just the board iswhat I should say we take
nominations, and we'll do thatat the conference.
(26:48):
We'll have that all set up andyou know there will be other
opportunities between now andthe conference, when we launch
the membership section, whichwill launch between.
I'm not going to give you ahard day yet, but it's coming.
(27:14):
Don't hold me to it, but I thinkit'll be in July.
Okay, well, I'm sure we'll see.
You can edit that out.
Shed Geek (27:18):
if it doesn't happen, We'll just have you say we'll
have your mouth move differentlyand say August, and I'll put my
voice in there.
Nick Garrard (27:25):
That's right, you can put a puppet over me or
something, but yeah, between nowand the conference, I'd say
there will be email blasts,social media blasts we're really
amping up that push through thesummer and that will give you a
(27:46):
variety of ways to get involved.
It will give you all the infoabout the conference.
They have put together adynamic lineup.
I'm not sure that we have theability to announce all of that
yet, but it is coming and it isgoing to be fantastic.
(28:06):
We've had great speakers thepast several years and this year
is going to be no different.
We're going even higher andhigher and higher, over and
above, I think.
So, you want to go ahead andpurchase your conference tickets
now so we don't sell out whichwe intend to sell out.
(28:31):
That's the plan.
So, purchase them early, beready.
We'll be in Knoxville inSeptember and it's going to be a
great show.
Shed Geek (28:41):
And this is beneficial to all in the
industry, wouldn't you say, Nick?
So, like those who are inrent-to-own, provide rent-to-own
either as a standalone companyor a manufacturer, but even
beneficial to salespeople whosell products through
(29:08):
rent-to-own.
It's beneficial to all Drivers,haulers, yeah.
Nick Garrard (29:15):
Yeah, we've had an emphasis on that in the past
and manufacturers yeah, I meanreally anybody that touches the
industry accountants, lawyers Iknow we don't want to talk about
lawyers too much,
Shed Geek (29:35):
we'll throw in do we throw in an applause or do we
throw in a boo?
I'm not sure, Nick, for youwe're going to throw in an
applause, for the rest of themWe'll throw in a boo.
We hear such good things aboutyou as we talk to other people
in the industry.
I just told the guy I wasgetting ready to hop on the
podcast with you and he's like,oh, I like that guy on the
podcast with you.
And he's like, oh, I like thatguy.
He's helped me out a lot.
Nick Garrard (29:54):
Oh, good, good, good, good.
Well, I appreciate that I don'tlike to.
You know I'd rather you nothave to call me.
You know I'd rather you not dosomething.
Or I hope all of your customerspay on time and never file
bankruptcy and you know yourcontracts are magically updated
(30:15):
and never file bankruptcy, andyou know your contracts are
magically updated.
Shed Geek (30:21):
But you know, in the event that something happens, we
like to be there to help.
I had a question the other day.
I thought would make a lot ofsense to ask you that Bootleg is
that the right word?
Bootleg contracts?
You know like I'm going toestablish that term if it's not
but you know contracts that are,you know, created by your
(30:42):
office for a manufacturer or anRTO company who is doing
business in that state.
Uh, how transferable are those?
What is your advice to you knowthose contracts?
Are they very similar, you know?
Or is there a reason to haveyou on retainer and not just
(31:07):
bootleg that contract, in thesense that if someone else gets
it and then something changes,they, they're legal, but what if
they're not?
Nick Garrard (31:15):
yeah, exactly that .
That's become a uh, a biggerissue really in the past couple
years.
Even, um, there are a handfulof states.
You know who's a rent-to-ownstatute.
There's a.
There's only, I think, threestates that don't have a
rent-to-own statute.
There's only, I think, threestates that don't have a
(31:37):
rent-to-own statute.
Could be four, don't quote me,but you know the vast majority
of states do, and you knowthere's a handful of states
where you know you might could.
If you had a general enoughcontract and general enough
(31:57):
language.
I don't know, it might work,and if you're in, you know it
works in your state.
It might work in a few others,but that is definitely, I would
say, the exception, not the rule, and you're running into a big
risk.
So, it's a big risk because alot of the states have statutory
(32:18):
enforcement provisions.
So, if something's wrong withyour contract, if you're
collecting more money than isallowed by the statutes in that
state, or you're collecting acertain fee that's not allowed
by the statutes, you know someof the states have provisions
that say contracts void customerowns building period.
(32:43):
You know.
So, if they raise it and wereto take you to court, you know
you've got to think about it.
Not only that customer, but nowyou've got 100 other contracts
out there.
So, all of a sudden, someplaintiff's lawyer starts
sniffing around and goes I canget every one of my clients a
free shed because this shedcompany didn't have the right
(33:06):
language in their contract.
All of a sudden, you've lost100 sheds.
There's some states that havemandatory enforcement provisions
for like where the customer isentitled to actual damages,
attorney's fees and then astatutory penalty on top of that
(33:28):
, say, up to $1,000.
You know and you start.
Again, you have a hundredcontracts, you've got a
thousand- dollar penalty on each.
It's going to be a lot of zeroson that deck.
You got to run and that's neverfun, never good.
ADVERTISEMENT (33:45):
Hello Shed and Carport Industry.
I'm Cord Coch, Chief BrandStrategist here at Shed Geek
Marketing.
Did you know that Shed GeekMarketing works with 45 shed
companies and county and we arenot slowing down in 2025.
One of the neat benefits toworking with Shed Geek Marketing
is working with an agency asopposed to just an individual.
When you work with Shed GeekMarketing, you have a team of
(34:06):
professionals working diligentlyto ensure your success.
From branding guidelines andbrand books to websites, Google
and meta tag tracking thatmeasures the traffic to your
website and social media pages,CRM setup and full automation,
build outs, lead funnelintegration and so much more.
Worried about whether or not wecan serve you, Don't be.
(34:27):
Shed Geek Marketing works withmanufacturers ranging from $1
million a year in sales up to$80 million a year in sales.
There is no manufacturer toobig or too small.
Ranging from $1 million a yearin sales up to $80 million a
year in sales, there is nomanufacturer too big or too
small.
Remember, marketing is aninvestment that should be making
you money.
That's why nearly 50 companieshave decided to work with Shed
Geek Marketing.
So, for more information, go towww.
(34:49):
shedgeek.
com and submit some basicinformation and we'll reach out
with a discovery call andpatiently walk you through how
we can best serve you.
Thank you for your time andlook forward to working with you
.
So, I'll have to say it doesn'tyou know?
what is it?
An ounce of prevention is wortha pound of cure.
(35:11):
I mean yeah that's really whatwe're talking about here.
It is really important need tomake sure that you have them set
up in each state.
(35:38):
Some states require you to dosome registrations with the
Secretary of State or TaxationOffice in some cases, where you
have to register and specifythat you're in the rent-to-own
industry and you've got to turnover some documents to show them
(36:01):
what you're doing.
Some states are more difficult,I'd say, than others.
Some have more specificprovisions and even like how the
contract has to be laid out.
You know what language has tobe included, what you can charge
(36:22):
for and what you can't.
Caps on rent to own cost overthe cash price, caps on cash
price I mean it's a lot of stufffrom state to state, so each
state is different.
No two states that I can thinkof off the top of my head are
(36:44):
exactly alike.
Some just have very specificrequirements and some are very
general and you can probablyprobably find but it is, uh, it
is so important to get that done.
It's not gonna, you know, havea lawyer look over that or get
(37:05):
somebody to do it for you.
I mean, it is, it's really notgonna, it's gonna.
I'll say it'll be a lot lesscostly to do it that way than to
get popped on the back end.
So that is that is critical andI'm glad you brought it up.
Shed Geek (37:23):
Well, it just, you know, you just hear different
conversations that you have withfolks that well, I mean, we're
constantly growing and learningand trying to do better and you
know, sometimes a path of theopinion of that, the person that
works in that and, like youknow, that's a service that
(38:01):
costs business and it's welldeserved.
So, like you know, we're, yeah,we're appreciative of that,
like anyone else.
But, um, so, what are some?
What are some things you'reseeing now outside of, you know,
government oversight,government provision, that
always has this looming, youknow, booth that's going to drop
(38:24):
on us.
You know, outside of that, whatare things that you see that you
can share here today.
Maybe you can even tease themso that they come to the NSRA
event, but some knowledge thatyou can share with people.
What are some things that yousee that are the most damaging
that are being done right now?
(38:44):
Things that just need to bereversed, things that can be
corrected.
If you're addressing theindustry, and especially those
who work in RTO, what'ssomething you could share today
that you would really want toget across?
Nick Garrard (38:56):
Yeah, that's a good question and we hit on one
of the contracts for sure.
One thing that always comes uptoo is this idea of you know,
when you go to pick up yourbuilding, what can I do to get
my building?
And there's this thing calledthe breach of the peace.
(39:17):
And you know what is that?
And it's a good questionbecause nobody seems to be able
to define it.
It's just a term of art almostin the legal world.
And what's funny is I've saidthis before, but there's in most
(39:37):
of the state statutes.
They talk about being able to.
You know, if your customerdefaults, stops paying, doesn't
renew the lease, you can go getyour building.
Now, sometimes you've got tosend them a letter, you've got
to give them some sort of anotice sometimes.
Sometimes some states itdoesn't matter, you can just go
(39:59):
get it.
But I would say universally,they say you can't breach the
peace in getting your shed.
And somebody asked me one timewell, could we just put in our
contract that we are allowed tobreach the peace?
And I said no, we can't do thateither, because the statutes
(40:23):
actually specify that you can'tdo that.
Your contract cannot say we'reentitled to breach the peace and
get our shed back.
So that's not allowed.
And we did at a conferencemaybe two years ago, we did a
(40:44):
little breakout session aboutthis, but it's just a good
yearly reminder.
Generally, don't cut locks,don't take down fences, don't
move stuff out of the way.
If you can get to your shed,you know, and it's open and good
, you're probably fine.
(41:05):
But much beyond that.
Or if the customer comes outand says you can't get this shed
today, you know you're bumpingup against what is a breach of
the peace.
It's a very low bar, I wouldsay.
And so again, you know I hateto be the lawyer, but if you
(41:29):
were to call me and ask me, hey,can we go get this shed, I
would probably say no, you know,if you're asking my opinion,
but you know.
So that's definitely one thingto always keep in mind.
You know, should I just go getrid of possession, file a little
(41:52):
suit for possession?
Then you're safe, you know.
Then you're safe to get yourstuff.
So that pops up, excuse me,bankruptcies are up.
I've seen a lot morebankruptcies lately.
And you know, with that theother thing I would always tell
people.
You know the other thing Iwould always tell people, you
(42:13):
know.
One file your proof of claim ontime.
I've got forms for you, I'vegot a video I did to show you
what to do.
You can do a lot of that stuffon your own.
And then two is as soon as thecustomer files bankruptcy, there
is an automatic stay in placeso you cannot go get your
(42:37):
building.
You can't really even call themand tell them they got to pay,
you've got to.
It really just puts a pause onthe whole transaction.
In a perfect world they wouldcontinue to pay you because a
lease has to be either paid orrejected and surrendered.
But it's not always a perfectworld and so you know you can't
(43:04):
go get it.
ADVERTISEMENT (43:05):
Oh no, sam, what's?
going on, are you okay?
Yes, I'm fine, lisa, oh no, Sam, what's going on?
Are you okay?
Yes, I'm fine, Lisa.
I was just trying to get ascrewdriver and all this other
stuff fell down.
I'm ready to go buy a shed sowe can have some space in this
(43:27):
garage again.
I agree, I keep looking at theshed Mr Jenkins bought.
Let's ask him where.
I got his Howdy neighbor.
We're wondering how do you likeyour shed?
I love it.
It's exactly what I needed, andI couldn't have asked for a
better service.
And where did you get it?
(43:48):
Hmm, I can't remember, but letme check Something.
This nice will probably havethe builder's name on it
somewhere.
Hmm, no, I'm sorry, I can'tfind a name anywhere.
Well, we finally got a shed.
(44:11):
Yes, I just hope we're happy.
The thing is a lot more shoddythan I expected, and I'm sure I
told them I wanted a window, butthey didn't have it in the
paperwork so I couldn't argue.
Boy is this a lousy shed.
(44:32):
We haven't even had it twoyears, have we?
Barely.
It was just a bad deal all theway around.
Mr Jenkins told me the otherday that he likes his shed so
much he wants to get a secondone, but he still can't remember
where he got it.
Your product is your bestadvertising.
At IdentiGrow, we providenameplates that ensure your
quality products are neverforgotten.
(44:53):
Identify your products, growyour business.
For more information, visitidentigrow.
com.
Nick Garrard (45:03):
And what happens sometimes is a customer will
forget oh I forgot I had thatshed back there when I filed my
bankruptcy and I forgot to tellmy lawyer about it.
And so, the shed companydoesn't know about it, and they
go and get it.
Well, you know, I meantechnically, even though they
(45:28):
didn't have notice, there'sstill a stay issue.
So, getting on PACER, which isthe federal court database,
searching your customer, makingsure there's not a bankruptcy
case out there, just doublechecking, so stuff like that
(45:53):
Stay on top of your customers.
Don't let the accounts get 60,90 days past due.
That's when we see a lot ofissues Sheds go missing or
they're stolen or sold.
I would say those are mybiggest three, four areas that
(46:14):
are just, you know, a constant,a constant in this, in my side
of the business.
Shed Geek (46:24):
Because I wrote down trends here, because we
initially discussed trends lostbuildings, stolen buildings,
theft rings yeah, those are realconversations in the shed world
and probably especially in theRTO world.
What comes to mind whenever youhear those terms?
Nick Garrard (46:52):
Just education with your dealers and knowing
who you're dealing with.
You know, making sure you doyour due diligence on who your
partners are and who you arechoosing to partner with, doing
some background research.
You know a deal is too good tobe true.
(47:17):
It probably is.
Yeah, I mean, I hear of thosethings out there.
I hear of those things outthere.
I don't have a lot of directknowledge or work in a lot of
that stuff, but I know it's outthere, I know it's a real
(47:38):
concern and it seems like, fromwhat I know and the ones I've
worked with or helped orwhatever it comes down to, you
know, we didn't know enoughabout that guy or this group or
whatever and there was someshady dealings going on with
them and you know it just is alearning opportunity.
Shed Geek (48:04):
So, you said earlier, an ounce of prevention is worth
a pound of cure.
I find that to be educationalside team seems to be.
You know it's always the, thepart that we missed right, an
educational piece to, to tryingto prevent some of these things.
I think that's, you know, to methat's.
(48:24):
I see the NSRA as much of thatis trying to help create that
educational segment.
You know it seems to be.
You know what the part of theprocess is, there for your
attendance and it sounds likemaybe for your membership, which
is going to be a new thing, youknow, to be able to actually be
(48:45):
a member.
You know, I think, about othertrade associations, like you
know the rent-to actually be amember.
You know, I think about othertrade associations, like you
know the rent-to-own, the waythey've done it, but, like you
know, a builder association, abuilding association, you know,
a selling association, a haulingassociation, you know all of
these different things that are,you know, meant to work in
(49:05):
collaboration with otherorganizations or other
associations within the industry, to help, um, you know, just to
help us serve better, help usbe better as an organization.
We're an industry that seems tobe moving from our baby years,
to our toddler years, to prettysoon being a full grown up, you
(49:26):
know, industry if we're notcareful.
It's kind of neat to watchbecause it's so much different
now than it was when I was firstexposed to it.
With that comes increasedcompetition and all these
different things.
We really see an increase incompetition in rent-to-own.
(49:46):
This may not be in the worldthat you play in, I'm not sure
but I'm curious that from alegal perspective, on the record
here on the record, we're likeGreta, we're bringing you on the
record.
Okay, what are your thoughts,or do you have any, as to where
(50:07):
rent-to-own is going with allthe different bells and whistles
nowadays?
You know, 90 days, same as cash.
Six months, same as cash.
12 months, same as cash.
72-month contracts, dealerpremiums Do you have any
thoughts on any of these thingsor do they matter in that legal
world for you?
Thoughts on any of these things?
Nick Garrard (50:28):
or do they matter in that legal world?
For you Only this, and that is,if it's an option in that state
that you're working in, thenlet's try it out and see how it
does.
Again, it comes back to thecompetition free and open
competition.
(50:48):
One company is going to trysomething a little different.
Let's see if it works.
And then another company triessomething else, let's see if it
works.
So, I'm for innovation and theidea that just because we've
done it one way doesn't mean wehave to continue doing it that
(51:10):
way.
You know, I'm a Cubs fan andthey lost for 108 years and
finally they went.
Let's do something differentand they won the World Series.
So, I like well, I shouldn'tsay I like change, because
(51:33):
really, I'm not, I'm a creatureof habit, but I like innovation
in this industry because wecan't stay where we are and just
stay stagnant.
I think it's important to growand change and update, but to do
so in a way that reallycontinues to bring focus to the
(51:58):
customer.
What we're trying to do, Ithink, is offer customers the
opportunity to have a productthat maybe they wouldn't
otherwise be able to afford orcouldn't purchase on their own.
So, you're providing a serviceto the customers.
(52:21):
And if our association keepsthat in mind, with a focus on
(52:45):
doing the right thing, doingthings open and honest and above
board, then the innovation thatcomes from it, I think, will
just blossom.
I mean, we're just going tocontinue to grow and expand.
So, you know, let's try it Ifsomebody has an idea and wants
to run with it and pursue it youknow I'm open for it and I
(53:05):
encourage it.
ADVERTISEMENT (53:08):
Are you a dealer who sells multiple products at
your shed lot?
Are you tired of siftingthrough clunky or
overcomplicated softwares tosimply sell a product?
If so, it's time to call Cal.
Consumer Aligned Logistics isthe affordable, simplified and
scalable solution for your shed,carport or even r company.
We are partnered with idea roomand shed pro for configurators
(53:32):
and have multiple RTO partnersto choose from, from JMAG to
Heartland to Shed Geek Rentalsand Scott's RTO.
And if your partner isn'tlisted here, just ask.
We are happy to add more.
Give us a call at 425-359-3279or visit calcanhelp.
com.
(53:53):
That's C-A-L-C-A-N-H-E-L-P.
com.
Shed Geek (54:00):
I want to tease you about being a Cubs fan, because
I grew up at Cardinal Countryjust to be clear and I'm smart
enough not to tease you aboutthat right now.
So I, that's right.
Ryan Sandberg was still one ofmy favorite players of all time
(54:23):
growing up, mark Grace.
But I've just been.
Yeah, I've just been an Ozzieand Albert, I've just I've just
been an Aussie and Albert Pujolsand Yadier Molina guy for so
long that.
But yeah, Ryan Sandberg stillholds the place as my favorite
second baseman and I can'treally speak on much I have for
the last 108 years.
The Cubs were not doing good,but my partner, I sure can't say
(54:44):
too much right now because youguys are leading in our division
.
But that's awesome.
Yeah, it's awesome.
I love talking baseball becauseit's a passion of mine growing
up just as much as Sheds hasbecome in my later years here.
Me too.
(55:05):
So many just different thoughtslater years here, but so many
just different thoughts.
You know, gosh, we reallyshould do this, you know, each
year, because I think about allthe change to rent to own.
You know, I hear people sayfinance a lot.
What does that?
Does that just stick in yourcrawl any whenever you hear
finance and like how that isrelated to rent to own?
(55:27):
Like, have we not done?
Nick Garrard (55:33):
What are your thoughts on that?
Well, you're really notfinancing the transaction.
In fact, I'm working onsomething today where a
bankruptcy case in Texas and youknow the customer's lawyer is
trying to make some argumentabout it being a finance
(55:54):
transaction.
And it's not.
It's a true rental transaction.
The customer rents the property.
They just become the ownerafter 36, 48, whatever months.
But what's critical in that isthat they always maintain the
(56:18):
option to terminate theagreement.
There's your vital piece ofinformation in your contract
termination agreement.
They're not obligated tocontinue to rent the shed or the
property, and that's true,really that, going back to what
we first started, you know thetransaction between a shed
(56:42):
rent-to-own, or a TV applianceor car rims or whatever else
they're doing.
It's the same transaction andit's the same, you know.
So, it's not financed, and youneed to avoid using that because
it puts you in a differentcategory of treatment for
bankruptcy.
(57:02):
It puts you in a differenttaxation type.
I'm not a tax lawyer, I'm justtold.
Puts you in a differenttaxation type.
I'm not a tax lawyer, I'm justtold.
But you know, and so let'savoid that, avoid that language.
You're not financing it, you'rerenting it to the customer, and
they have the option to own itor purchase it or just turn it
(57:24):
in after three months and bedone with it.
So that's yeah, that'simportant for sure.
Shed Geek (57:33):
Yeah, I think that educational piece comes back
into that conversation quicklyand like whose responsibility is
it to educate?
Is it the rent-to-own company'sresponsibility to educate the
their customer and then theircustomers, customers?
So, if it's a manufacturer andtheir dealer network, is it the
(57:55):
manufacturer's responsibility?
Uh, because our dealer networksare so fragmented with, you
know, a mixture of umconsignment versus wholesale and
, and you know, and maybe two orthree other types of models,
where does the burden ofresponsibility fall on so that
(58:17):
the customer is getting theinformation?
Of course they're signing thecontract, but what
responsibility do we have toensure that they understand that
contract?
And I can only imagine theseare conversations you have when
you actually end up in acourtroom defending a contract.
What advice can you give to adealer today, or to someone who
(58:41):
doesn't play in the world thatyou do of high-level legal
conversation in regards to RTOcontracts, buildings that are,
you know, put on RTOs.
Nick Garrard (58:57):
Well, I think, first of all, to address the
point of whose responsibility isit?
I think it's, I think it's allof ours.
I think it's really a vitalpart that the association is
going to play moving forward,that we as an industry have an
(59:20):
idea of how the transactionshould work in terms of what the
transaction is.
So, we have our members who aremembers of the association, who
, through coming to theconference and accessing the
member portal, come to have agreater understanding about some
(59:42):
of the nuances of thetransaction, and that they need
to be passing that along totheir dealers.
We want dealers to come to theconference, we want dealers to
be members, we want vendors tocome and vendors to be members.
All of this to funnel down, toultimately pass along to the
(01:00:04):
customer, who fully understandsthe transaction and understands
that we are providing a servicethat allows them to get property
, or, you know, a set of tiresor whatever it is that maybe
they couldn't otherwise get.
So, I think the idea is itfunnels down from the top.
(01:00:24):
I think the idea is it funnelsdown from the top.
And we, being up here, you know, I think, the industry leaders,
we're all at the top, so we allhave to make sure that that
information is getting down toeverybody else out in the field.
(01:00:45):
No-transcript, what you'rereally even providing.
(01:01:11):
Um, yeah, we'll finance it, oryeah, you know, but, but it's a,
you have to see it as a service.
I think that's why I keepsaying it, but, um, yeah you
know and that's what you'redoing.
And so, I find that in the past,probably three or four years, a
(01:01:32):
large part of my legal practiceeven has been that education
piece.
So I host, you know, I'll hosta training session on how to do
X, y or Z, how to handle thisbankruptcy, how to you know,
kind of general sessions,because I want my clients to be
(01:01:54):
able to have that information,to know what they can do on
their own and what you know theway things should happen, so
that when they, when a problemarises, you don't just
immediately have to call andhire a lawyer.
You can have, you have someknowledge and know what to do,
(01:02:15):
how to handle it.
And if something you know sayyou have a list of five things
and if you know at some point itfalls off the rails, okay, well
then maybe you need to call andtalk to a lawyer that education
piece is vital.
That's why I'm excited aboutwhere the association's headed.
(01:02:42):
I think it's going to make myjob easier, which is great.
Shed Geek (01:02:47):
Yeah, you want that educational piece out there so
that you don't end up dealingwith these things later.
I think you said it early inthe call.
You know.
I hope you don't have to callme unless it's, you know, just
getting things established.
Yeah, as opposed to me havingto defend any actions.
That's always a sign of, youknow, negativity.
(01:03:08):
I guess that you know.
But that's why you're here,that's why you provide a service
.
Where do you think it's going?
I almost, I almost want to askthis question because I'm
curious.
You have an answer to it, youknow.
My, my, my, my primary questionis where do you think it's
going?
My secondary question is justhow much does rent to own prop
(01:03:33):
up the industry in your opinion?
Is it a large section ofcontracts that are out there and
, if so, would that have anyeffect on the industry long term
?
But where do you think it'sgoing?
Maybe you can wrap all those upinto one question that you can
answer comprehensively.
Nick Garrard (01:03:53):
That's.
You know that's a good questionand I hate to keep kind of
throwing it back off on theassociation, but really, I mean
these are the questions that theboard members have been asking
themselves.
These are the questions thatthe board members have been
asking themselves and you knowthey want to know the size of
(01:04:17):
the industry, the percentage ofpeople involved with Renton, the
percentage of those people thatare involved with the
association there hasn't been areal detailed analysis of, I
think, the association as awhole and to know, you know,
where we are now versus wherewe're going, and that's part of
what we're excited to be doing.
You know, I think that wherewe're headed with the membership
(01:04:46):
offerings conference is great.
I think it will continue togrow.
I see my role, like I said, inthe past three or four years
there's been almost a shiftwhere, yes, I'm still doing a
lot of what I've done for thepast ten years.
I'm still doing a lot of whatI've done for the past 10 years,
(01:05:07):
but a greater emphasis ontraining, training customers,
working with staff, whereas, youknow, in years past maybe
somebody, something went wrong Iwould just get an email saying
here's a, here's a file for youto handle and please help us get
this building back or whatever.
Now I see a lot more management, internal and helping groups
(01:05:38):
like that and helping them workon projects themselves.
I think you'll see more of that.
I think there's room in theindustry for the smaller groups,
where you just have amanufacturer who's wanting to
(01:06:03):
sell or rent on sheds, andthat's great.
Who's wanting to sell or renton sheds, and that's great.
There's room in the industry forpeople that are working in 10
states.
There's people that are workingin 50 states.
You know there's a place at thetable for everybody.
We're going to make themembership and the association
(01:06:28):
work for all of those people, um, and we, we want it to be a
group, a group effort, because,um, every each of those people
the small one, mom and pop store, I'd say to the 50 states have,
uh, have a lot to offer anddifferent perspectives, and
we're, we're, we want to haveall of those perspectives in our
(01:06:51):
, in our industry and in ourassociation.
So, um, in that respect, Idon't, I don't want to see um
too much change, because I like,I like that there's different
sizes, different groups.
I like that there's a largecollaboration from coast to
(01:07:12):
coast.
So, I think that'll stay thesame, and I expect it will, and
I'm happy that it will becauseit's good for all of us.
Shed Geek (01:07:23):
Who can be involved in Rent to Own, Nick?
Is there anybody that shouldn'tbe, can't be well, we don't
want.
Nick Garrard (01:07:34):
Well, I shouldn't say we don't want you.
We want people that that youknow they want to serve their
customers well and offer aservice.
It's not just a businessopportunity.
I mean you've got to see it asmore than that.
Anybody can be involved,obviously, and know insurance
(01:08:16):
claimants make the insuranceindustry look bad.
We want people that want to bein the industry and that see it
as a way to help and to helpothers, and that's really what I
think of.
(01:08:36):
I mean, that's those.
Those people make the bestbusinessmen and managers, and
they make the best clients.
And so, everybody's,everybody's welcome and we want
you to be involved.
Shed Geek (01:08:59):
Yeah, Very good man.
An hour goes by too fast,Honestly, when we're talking it.
Just you know there's so muchconversation to be had and I
like to tell people being on thepodcast is less intimidating
than they may realize.
We even invite you knowcompetitors on, even competitors
in the rent-owned space.
We love to have goodconversation because I feel like
(01:09:22):
, uh, you know, healthy debateand conversation and encourages
us all and like I learned fromthat and I think iron sharpens
iron I think others learn fromthat too, and to be able to put
free content and conversationout there for people to listen
to is always encouraging.
So, you know we have an openmic for everybody.
Nick Garrard (01:09:46):
Well, it's, you know, bad lawyers make bad laws.
The good lawyers, although theymight challenge you a little
more, but you grow in adifferent way than if you're
dealing with.
You know.
Somebody that didn't you knowis not a great lawyer.
(01:10:12):
I don't know that might soundmean, but I'm just, yeah, I'm
open for that healthy, open,honest debate and it makes us
all better.
Shed Geek (01:10:22):
Yeah, absolutely Any thoughts that you want to give.
Like we would definitely.
Uh, we'll link this maybe tothe NSRA website, um, you know,
so that, uh, people know whereto go.
There's always on ournewsletter there's always a
description of today's show.
I'm assuming you want it to gothere.
(01:10:42):
We're happy to link it to yourlaw practice if you would prefer
that either way.
Nick Garrard (01:10:48):
Yeah, happy for you too.
That'd be great, yeah.
Yeah, you've got my info anddetails.
That'd be wonderful if you wantto do that, and you know I just
I'm looking forward to seeingeverybody in Knoxville.
It's a great opportunity to seeeverybody again, and you know
(01:11:11):
it'll be a lot of fun.
So, I hope everybody comes.
I hope new people come.
So please, please reach out ifyou need anything from me in the
meantime.
If anybody wants to know how toget a hold of you, how would
(01:11:32):
they do that?
They can go to.
Our website is WilkinsPatterson.
com.
W-i-l-k-i-n-s-p-a-t-t-e-r-s-o-n.
com.
You can Google me, Nick Garrard.
My number is 601-366-4343.
(01:11:53):
That'll roll right to my cellphone if I'm not here, so call
me text me whatever you need.
Perfect.
Any final thoughts you want toshare?
No, this has been fun.
I'm always happy to answerquestions, so I love this
(01:12:15):
industry.
I love the people that I workwith.
It's a privilege to representthem and the association and it
means a lot to me to be here andto do that and I just am
thankful for that, thankful foryour podcast, and just hope you
(01:12:37):
continue to prosper and do welland look forward to seeing you
soon.
Shed Geek (01:12:45):
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
It really is a good industry tobe in, as all industries are.
They come with their fair share, you know, of not fun um, but
overall it's.
I've met some lifelong friendsthrough this and some, just some
(01:13:05):
, some people that really haveinspired me to be better, uh, to
do better, um, some very wisecounsel and like that's just um,
that's really priceless at theend of the day.
So, uh, any questions for me?
Podcast related, shed related,just anything at all.
(01:13:29):
I always like to hit people upat the end of it and say I spend
a lot of time asking youquestions.
Do you have any questions?
What'd you have for lunch?
You know what I had?
I had Dairy Queen chicken stripbasket.
We have been going.
Hey, there we go.
We have been eating at homeevery single day.
(01:13:51):
Me and my wife have been onthis journey to focus on
healthier eating, living and allof that.
And today I had three podcasts,and a marketing call lined up
and I said I'm not going to getaway from the desk aside from
all other calls, and so she'slike I'll just run and get Dairy
Queen real quick.
So that's your Shed Geek on aThursday afternoon and a rainy
(01:14:14):
day here in Metropolis, Illinois.
Nick Garrard (01:14:18):
There's nothing wrong with that.
Everybody needs a little DairyQueen here and there.
Shed Geek (01:14:24):
Yeah, that's right.
Well, it was fun as usual.
Hang on here.
I'll chat with you just beforewe get out of here, but I do
want to say thank you for beingon.
We'd love to make this a likethat.
It's a pleasure that we caneven have this conversation,
(01:14:50):
that people can come togetherfor that, for that purpose.
Nick Garrard (01:14:54):
I agree and I'm happy to.
I'll join you anytime, Just letme know.
Shed Geek (01:14:59):
Appreciate it.
Thank you, Nick All right Thankyou.
Outro (01:15:03):
Thanks again, Shed Pro, for being the Shed Geek's studio
sponsor for 2025.
, if you need any moreinformation about Shed Pro or
about Shed Geek, just reach out.
You can reach us by email atinfo@ Shedgeek.
com, or just go to our website,www.
shedgeek.
com, and submit a form with yourinformation and we'll be in
(01:15:26):
contact right away.
Thank you again for listening,as always, to today's episode of
the Shed Geek podcast.
Thank you and have a blessedday.
Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast.
Here's a message from our 2025studio sponsor.
Let's be real Running a shedbusiness today isn't just about
building great sheds.
The industry is changing fast.
We're all feeling the squeeze,competing for fewer buyers while
expectations keep climbing, andyet I hear from many of you
(00:24):
that you are still jugglingspreadsheets, clunky software or
disconnected systems.
You're spending more timemanaging chaos than actually
growing your business.
That's why I want to talk toyou about our studio sponsor,
Shed Pro.
If you're not already usingthem, I really think you should
check them out.
Shed Pro combines your 3Dconfigurator, point of sale, RTO
(00:47):
contracts, inventory,deliveries and dealer tools all
in one platform.
They even integrate cleanlyinto our Shed Geek marketing
solutions, From website lead tofinal delivery.
You can quote, contract,collect payment and schedule
delivery in one clean workflow.
Contract collect, payment andschedule delivery in one clean
workflow.
(01:07):
No more double entries, no moreback and forth chaos.
Quoting is faster, orders arecleaner and, instead of chasing
down paperwork, you're actuallyrunning your business.
And if you mention Shed Geek,you'll get 25% off all setup
fees.
Check it out at shedpro.
co/ shedgeek.
Thank you, Shed Pro, for beingour studio sponsor and, honestly
(01:30):
, for building something thathelps the industry.
Shed Geek (01:34):
Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed
Geek podcast and my.
Is this overdue?
I feel like I've reached out toyou three times and I've never
done a good job of follow up, somaybe that says a lot about my
need for improved communication,Nick.
So, thank you for meeting withus here today.
(01:54):
It's been I think it was yearone, when Kyle was still with me
the last time we interviewedyou.
So, it's, it's been a while.
Yeah, we're in year five now.
We need to make this an annualthing.
Nick Garrard (02:08):
I'm happy.
I'm happy to come anytime.
This is a great resource forthe industry, and we certainly
appreciate what you do and whatthis podcast means for the
industry.
So, yeah, anytime you need us,we'll be here for you.
Shed Geek (02:25):
Well, it's, it's been , it's, honestly, it's been a
lot of fun and it's really a lotof.
It's a fun industry to be in.
So, I appreciate those kindwords, kind words, and I'll tell
you the same thing I telleveryone else.
I'll put a check in the mailboxfor you on that note.
So, but the reality is, I'mhere with, as I am in most
situations, maybe all situationsI'm here with someone smarter
(02:47):
than me that I get to learn from, and that's why we get to do
this and have fun doing theseinterviews.
But for those who don't knowyou, let's start there.
Who are you?
What do you do?
How did you wind up in the shedindustry or have any relation
to the shed industry?
Nick Garrard (03:04):
for those who don't know you, yeah, that's a
uh, it's a good story.
I, my name is Nick Garrard.
I'm an attorney in Jackson,Mississippi.
I do, uh, work kind of all overnow for a lot of different uh
people in the rent-to-ownindustry, specifically with the
sheds.
But yeah, I'm based in Jackson,and I started in 2013, I guess
(03:33):
maybe 2012, with kind of areferral from a friend, of a
friend type deal and just tohandle a little issue with a
rent-owned shed and I thought,well, this is kind of
interesting, sure, I'll help youout.
(03:53):
And that one file turned intotwo, turned into four, and then
eight and 16.
So it just grew and grew andover the past 12 years or so it
has become, if not the,certainly probably the biggest
part of my legal practice.
(04:14):
I do some other work too withour firm.
Shed Geek (04:18):
We do some insurance defense, workers' comp defense,
but this takes up, I'd say, atleast 50 or more of my work and,
um, it's been great I startedto came to my first uh later for
a larger shed manufacturer backprobably around the same time
(04:38):
and kind of learned about youknow how there's a sales side, a
manufacturing side, thispurchasing side, this, this,
this, uh logistics side.
But then it was like, well,what about that financing side?
You know, where, where there'spayment options, you know, and,
and then, so then it's been likethis long journey inside of
(05:00):
that and I was sort ofapproached to help grow, uh, uh,
um, a network, you know, an RTOnetwork in the Midwest, you
know, and, and after that it wasjust, you know, uh, caution to
the wind, I guess you'd say,jump right in and started, and
the one thing I noticed goingfrom place to place is that
(05:24):
people would ask a lot of thesame questions and, and you know
, wanted to pull on theexperiences of others and, um it
just one guy asked me one time.
He said where can I find moreresources?
And you know, and I get in theand I get in the car and I'm
listening to podcasts andaudiobooks and music, and you
(05:45):
know podcasts probably more thananything, and, and I'm like man
, no one's done a podcast overthe shed industry.
It just seems like, you know,uh, especially as competitive as
rent owns become since, youknow, the last few years,
especially five, six years, itseemed like a relationship
(06:08):
building was very necessary,because there's a lot of
relationship building andlong-term relationship building
in this industry, and it waslike if you just show up and you
sign somebody up.
That might not always be thebest thing.
Nick Garrard (06:24):
Exactly, I'm kind of like you.
I was trying to figure out sortof how it all fit together in
the beginning too, and who thedifferent players are and how it
all fits together.
You know, it was just alearning curve in the beginning
and yeah, it was hard.
It was difficult, I'd say, inthe beginning because of that
(06:50):
Not knowing sort of therelationships behind the scenes
and what was going on and yeah.
So, the podcast became a greatresource for that.
Yeah, and then just showing upgoing to the meetings, going to
(07:15):
an APRO event, and it was like abig puzzle, you know.
You started putting the piecestogether and figuring out.
This seems like a this is amuch bigger industry.
And then then what it what Iinitially realized and it just
carried on.
Shed Geek (07:33):
It's pretty interesting it is.
It really is, and I wrote downon here a pro because I wanted
to touch on that, but I thoughtyou know, since you brought it
up, let's just dive right intothat.
ADVERTISEMENT (07:46):
Are your shed sales down?
Maybe you heard the latest newsShed Geek and ShedHub are now
working together for the benefitof the shed industry.
That's right.
Shed Geek is now a managingpartner for ShedHub.
One thing we want to instillimmediately is your confidence
in this service.
The Shed Geek and ShedHubcollaborative effort means you
(08:09):
will get the same trustedvisibility from the awesome SEO
efforts already created by theShedHub team, while resting in
the fact that Shed Geek will bestreamlining the seller
interface website and overallsimplicity of the service
interface website and overallsimplicity of the service.
ShedHub has already done thework to ensure that we are the
(08:29):
most visible shed shoppingwebsite, and here are the
analytics to prove that.
During the month of March 2025,ShedHub had over 2 million
impressions and over 41,000clicks from search.
This means someone is on theShedHub site every 60 seconds
shopping for a shed.
Why not have your sheds visible?
For just $39 per month, you canget signed up today by going to
(08:54):
www.
getshedhub.
com.
Once you sign up, a customerrepresentative will reach out
within one to two business daysto ensure that you are onboarded
and understand the programcompletely.
Don't wait, sell more shedstoday using shedhub.
com by going to www.
getshedhub.
com.
Shed Geek (09:27):
Give a little synopsis of APRO and then NSRA,
how the two differ but how theyserve sort of in the same
capacity of rental.
We're just, you know, sort of aone product side of that and
you know, like, can you?
Can you elaborate on that alittle?
Nick Garrard (09:39):
yeah, ARPO, the Association of Progressive
Rental Organizations, is sort ofour.
You know, that's the bigumbrella organization for the
rent-to-own industry.
It's a large nationalorganization and it's been
(09:59):
around for a long time, for along time, and so it serves a
wider variety of rent-to-ownorganizations.
You know, I think of itprimarily with the large
(10:24):
rent-to-own businesses, but youknow, it's just a wide variety
of people and you know fromfurniture, tv and appliances to
equipment, and you know justpretty much the gamut of
rent-to-own properties.
Probably not any real property.
I don't think.
I don't think there's any.
(10:45):
There are some real propertylike a rent-to-own house people
out there, but that's really atotally different transaction.
It really is not what we'refocused on.
But anyway, yeah, APRO is alarger organization.
But anyway, yeah, APRO is alarger organization.
(11:07):
Ed Wynn has been a generalcounsel for that.
He's been my, I'd say, mentorand really helped me to
understand a lot of what's goingon and I went to one of their
meetings.
I'm planning to go this summerto Omaha for their next meeting,
which will be great.
I'm looking forward to that.
And then we fall.
(11:29):
The NSRA now National ShedRental Association is underneath
the, I would say, APRO umbrella.
So, we're a smaller rent-to-owntrade association that really
focuses on shed manufacturers,dealers and rent-to-own
(11:50):
companies in the shed space.
So, backyard storage buildingsand there's kennels and chicken
coops and whatever else you wantto build and store things in
that we'll call a shed.
Whatever else you want to buildand store things in that we'll
call a shed.
Really, we're here to servethat industry and that's the
(12:10):
focus of this particular groupand it's where I've done the
vast majority of my work sincegetting involved.
That's sort of the difference,I think.
Shed Geek (12:41):
And I feel like you know you think about the origin
of that.
I think I heard one person askyou know, ask me the question in
the talks about NSRA is youknow, would we consider ourself
an event or an organization?
How would you, how would youdescribe that?
You know, like, cause there's,there's a lot of benefit that
comes out of the NSRA, and likethey have an annual meeting.
They have that before the ShedExpo.
Uh, you know, during Shed Week,hosted by, you know, the guys
over at uh, at uh Shed BusinessJournal, you know so.
(13:03):
So, like, there's an eventthere that you can attend.
You pay to attend and there'sbreakout sessions or speakers.
You know, I've had some of themost awesome speakers in the
last couple of years.
You know, but what is the?
What is the purpose of, how itof?
Like, what it serves?
Nick Garrard (13:20):
Well, and what's a ?
It's a good question.
It's a good time to talk aboutit because you're right, In the
past NBSRA or NSRA, has been,primarily, has been, a
conference.
I mean, that's been really whatthe organization association
(13:41):
did.
Was we put on a conferenceevery year?
And in the past, after COVID Iguess we started, I think there
was one year, maybe one year wehad to miss, I can't remember.
Then, after that, maybe since21, we've been sort of
(14:03):
piggybacking with the Shed Expo,but before that it was just a
standalone conference we did andthat was really what we did.
It was that one conference.
But starting last year, theboard met.
I mean, it's a great board ofindustry leaders, they are the
(14:28):
best people to work with, theymake my job as their attorney
very easy and they decided theyreally wanted to transform the
association into something morethan just an annual meeting.
They wanted to have memberbenefits, member meetings, more
options for members, so have afull membership section and
(14:52):
really think of ways that theassociation could impact the
industry in the next three, five, seven years, what our goals
are and how to meet those goals.
So, we've had several in-personmeetings.
We have Zoom meetings regularly.
(15:13):
In fact, I just got off onethis morning with some guys and
Tanner and some other guys withthe association that are helping
put together our new website,our new membership portal, what
that's going to look like, whatwe're going to be able to offer
(15:34):
for members, and it's reallygood, really exciting.
The ideas that have kind ofcome up from this have been
incredible.
I think you're going to see anassociation that really values
its members and really looks toprovide value to the members.
(15:57):
We've got several videos on tapthat will be available.
We've got other resources,legal resources.
We're hoping to have somevendor contacts and vendor value
to add, and the list goes on.
(16:19):
It's going to transform ourassociation from just a meeting
in the fall to a year-roundorganization that provides value
to the members, and that'swhere we're headed.
So, yeah, where we've been is,you know, is different.
(16:40):
It was, you know, it was aonce-a-year meeting and we're
really trying to transform thatand it's going to happen.
It's going to be great.
We want to have membershipofferings available and sign you
(17:07):
up, get you an NSRA memberbutton or pin or logo for your
website.
We want you to promote that youare a member of the association
, so that you know to hold eachother accountable and make sure
that the industry is moving in apositive direction for
everybody.
So that's where we've been.
The future is very bright.
It's going to be awesome, withall the guys that are involved
(17:28):
in it.
You're going to be reallyimpressed.
Shed Geek (17:32):
Well, we're certainly looking forward to it.
We've typically attended everyyear and, like I said, enjoyed
it.
And for those who are lookingto be in RTO and some of that
discussion gets wide right Likeit could be a manufacturer, you
know, who wants to maintainvertical integration governing
(17:54):
authority, just be the you knowa pro as the big umbrella.
There's kind of like thisintentionality of being, you
(18:32):
know like, just accountable toeach other as an industry.
First, is that fair to say.
Nick Garrard (18:38):
I think that's true.
Yeah, I mean, one thing tothink of, too is knock on wood,
we've avoided a lot ofgovernment oversight and
overreach and, if we can holdeach other accountable, be a
solid organization, do the rightthings.
(18:59):
There's a place for everybody,you know, that wants to be in
there's room.
There's room to grow.
The industry's continuing togrow and I think that having an
association that's strong andthat has powerful members within
(19:22):
the industry keep each other,help each other, look out for
pitfalls, look out for thingsthat are popping up across the
country we can hopefully avoidsome other watchdog group coming
in behind us and telling uswe're not doing things right,
(19:43):
and so being proactive in thatregard, I think, is going to be
important as we move forward,certainly in the next 10 years,
as we continue to grow, yeah, soI think that's a good way to
put it.
What you said is accountabilityand watching out for each other
(20:05):
and helping each other,
ADVERTISEMENT (20:08):
Are you ready to elevate your shed business to
new heights?
Your pathway to success justgot a whole lot smoother with
Shed Suite's innovativemarketing platform.
At Shed Suite, we like to thinkwe understand the shed industry
at least a little bit, and overthe last seven years we've been
building awesome software forshed businesses.
We focus first on building easyto use software to help you
(20:30):
create and track orders, likethe point of sale and after the
sale, order fulfillment.
And now we're excited toannounce our full feature CRM
all things pre-sale, you know,like prospecting and follow-up
all to empower your shed companyto market better and sell more
efficiently.
Our platform empowers you with amarketing toolkit designed to
(20:53):
amplify your online presence,engage your audience and drive
sales like never before.
Enjoy the ease of conversiontracking, email marketing,
centralized lead communicationand so much more.
Oh, and guess what?
It even comes with an iPhoneand an Android app.
With Shed Suite's marketingplatform, crafting and deploying
effective marketing campaignsis a breeze.
(21:16):
The advanced reportingfunctionality allows your team
to analyze real-time conversiondata so you can make informed
decisions and watch yourbusiness flourish.
There's no better time than nowto join the community of shed
business owners who are scalingup with Shed Suite.
It's time to turn yourmarketing efforts into real,
trackable results.
(21:36):
Visit ShedSuite.
com/ marketing to get pricing,explore the features and book a
demo.
Shed Suite is committed tobuilding top-quality software to
empower your shed business tothrive.
Shed Geek (21:51):
So, the difficult questions come now.
I suspect that you, being alawyer, you're used to that, and
look Nick say in private, howwould you address this question?
The membership is made up ofthose who also serve the
(22:21):
industry.
What kind of accountabilityexists for us as competitors to
come together with, like thisspirit of cooperation?
What can we do, you know, tohelp make sure that that is not
just in the background, like youknow, true and tested and meets
(22:45):
all of the accountabilitystandards, but even in the
foreground.
You know the optics of theindustry or the organization and
what it's doing.
What are your thoughts there?
Nick Garrard (22:58):
One thing that we really promote and push is the
idea of fair and opencompetition.
We believe in that.
We believe in organizations andtheir ability to run their
businesses and work how they seefit.
(23:18):
We're certainly not trying tocontrol that or make people do
things a certain way or anythinglike that, anything like that,
(23:39):
but we have an idea for anorganization that has goals and
has a code of conduct, I wouldsay, and best practices, some of
the ways that you can, you knowas a member organization.
These are the ideas that webelieve in and promote, not in
(24:01):
any way to limit competition,which is vital and critical that
that stays fair and open andhonest, but just developing a
sense of best practices for theindustry as a whole, I think, is
really the way to approach that.
Shed Geek (24:29):
No, I think that's evident.
It seems to be if you go to theevents, like we've attended the
events.
I certainly encourage people toattend the events because you
know it's not just what you canlearn individually or benefit
from your own company, but it'sreally about being as strong as
your weakest link Right and,like the industry as a whole,
(25:16):
sort of benefiting from thespirit of cooperation you know,
of working together for what'sbest for the customer, what's
best for you know the.
You know if someone wants to go, if someone wants to attend, or
even if someone wants to beinvolved, whether that's a board
member, a planning committee.
You know all these differentthings.
What are, you know?
How do they, how do they throwtheir hat in that ring?
How do they make it to the, tothe event?
What does that look like?
And then, like what if theywant to be more involved or
choose to be more involved?
What does that look like?
And then, mike, what if theywant to be more involved or
(25:36):
choose to be more involved?
What does that look?
Nick Garrard (25:40):
I was.
Actually, I was pulling this up, but so currently we still have
the website is nbsra.
com.
That's going to be changing inthe near future.
The new website's called thensra.
com, t-h-e-n-s-r-a.
(26:01):
com, and there's a conferencebutton at the top where you can
click and register now to attendthe conference.
So that's up and live, which isgreat, and you know what we'll
do is, if you want to be moreinvolved, we take nominations
(26:28):
for the advisory board and theboard.
I guess we just the board iswhat I should say we take
nominations, and we'll do thatat the conference.
(26:48):
We'll have that all set up andyou know there will be other
opportunities between now andthe conference, when we launch
the membership section, whichwill launch between.
I'm not going to give you ahard day yet, but it's coming.
(27:14):
Don't hold me to it, but I thinkit'll be in July.
Okay, well, I'm sure we'll see.
You can edit that out.
Shed Geek (27:18):
if it doesn't happen, We'll just have you say we'll
have your mouth move differentlyand say August, and I'll put my
voice in there.
Nick Garrard (27:25):
That's right, you can put a puppet over me or
something, but yeah, between nowand the conference, I'd say
there will be email blasts,social media blasts we're really
amping up that push through thesummer and that will give you a
(27:46):
variety of ways to get involved.
It will give you all the infoabout the conference.
They have put together adynamic lineup.
I'm not sure that we have theability to announce all of that
yet, but it is coming and it isgoing to be fantastic.
(28:06):
We've had great speakers thepast several years and this year
is going to be no different.
We're going even higher andhigher and higher, over and
above, I think.
So, you want to go ahead andpurchase your conference tickets
now so we don't sell out whichwe intend to sell out.
(28:31):
That's the plan.
So, purchase them early, beready.
We'll be in Knoxville inSeptember and it's going to be a
great show.
Shed Geek (28:41):
And this is beneficial to all in the
industry, wouldn't you say, Nick?
So, like those who are inrent-to-own, provide rent-to-own
either as a standalone companyor a manufacturer, but even
beneficial to salespeople whosell products through
(29:08):
rent-to-own.
It's beneficial to all Drivers,haulers, yeah.
Nick Garrard (29:15):
Yeah, we've had an emphasis on that in the past
and manufacturers yeah, I meanreally anybody that touches the
industry accountants, lawyers Iknow we don't want to talk about
lawyers too much,
Shed Geek (29:35):
we'll throw in do we throw in an applause or do we
throw in a boo?
I'm not sure, Nick, for youwe're going to throw in an
applause, for the rest of themWe'll throw in a boo.
We hear such good things aboutyou as we talk to other people
in the industry.
I just told the guy I wasgetting ready to hop on the
podcast with you and he's like,oh, I like that guy on the
podcast with you.
And he's like, oh, I like thatguy.
He's helped me out a lot.
Nick Garrard (29:54):
Oh, good, good, good, good.
Well, I appreciate that I don'tlike to.
You know I'd rather you nothave to call me.
You know I'd rather you not dosomething.
Or I hope all of your customerspay on time and never file
bankruptcy and you know yourcontracts are magically updated
(30:15):
and never file bankruptcy, andyou know your contracts are
magically updated.
Shed Geek (30:21):
But you know, in the event that something happens, we
like to be there to help.
I had a question the other day.
I thought would make a lot ofsense to ask you that Bootleg is
that the right word?
Bootleg contracts?
You know like I'm going toestablish that term if it's not
but you know contracts that are,you know, created by your
(30:42):
office for a manufacturer or anRTO company who is doing
business in that state.
Uh, how transferable are those?
What is your advice to you knowthose contracts?
Are they very similar, you know?
Or is there a reason to haveyou on retainer and not just
(31:07):
bootleg that contract, in thesense that if someone else gets
it and then something changes,they, they're legal, but what if
they're not?
Nick Garrard (31:15):
yeah, exactly that .
That's become a uh, a biggerissue really in the past couple
years.
Even, um, there are a handfulof states.
You know who's a rent-to-ownstatute.
There's a.
There's only, I think, threestates that don't have a
rent-to-own statute.
There's only, I think, threestates that don't have a
(31:37):
rent-to-own statute.
Could be four, don't quote me,but you know the vast majority
of states do, and you knowthere's a handful of states
where you know you might could.
If you had a general enoughcontract and general enough
(31:57):
language.
I don't know, it might work,and if you're in, you know it
works in your state.
It might work in a few others,but that is definitely, I would
say, the exception, not the rule, and you're running into a big
risk.
So, it's a big risk because alot of the states have statutory
(32:18):
enforcement provisions.
So, if something's wrong withyour contract, if you're
collecting more money than isallowed by the statutes in that
state, or you're collecting acertain fee that's not allowed
by the statutes, you know someof the states have provisions
that say contracts void customerowns building period.
(32:43):
You know.
So, if they raise it and wereto take you to court, you know
you've got to think about it.
Not only that customer, but nowyou've got 100 other contracts
out there.
So, all of a sudden, someplaintiff's lawyer starts
sniffing around and goes I canget every one of my clients a
free shed because this shedcompany didn't have the right
(33:06):
language in their contract.
All of a sudden, you've lost100 sheds.
There's some states that havemandatory enforcement provisions
for like where the customer isentitled to actual damages,
attorney's fees and then astatutory penalty on top of that
(33:28):
, say, up to $1,000.
You know and you start.
Again, you have a hundredcontracts, you've got a
thousand- dollar penalty on each.
It's going to be a lot of zeroson that deck.
You got to run and that's neverfun, never good.
ADVERTISEMENT (33:45):
Hello Shed and Carport Industry.
I'm Cord Coch, Chief BrandStrategist here at Shed Geek
Marketing.
Did you know that Shed GeekMarketing works with 45 shed
companies and county and we arenot slowing down in 2025.
One of the neat benefits toworking with Shed Geek Marketing
is working with an agency asopposed to just an individual.
When you work with Shed GeekMarketing, you have a team of
(34:06):
professionals working diligentlyto ensure your success.
From branding guidelines andbrand books to websites, Google
and meta tag tracking thatmeasures the traffic to your
website and social media pages,CRM setup and full automation,
build outs, lead funnelintegration and so much more.
Worried about whether or not wecan serve you, Don't be.
(34:27):
Shed Geek Marketing works withmanufacturers ranging from $1
million a year in sales up to$80 million a year in sales.
There is no manufacturer toobig or too small.
Ranging from $1 million a yearin sales up to $80 million a
year in sales, there is nomanufacturer too big or too
small.
Remember, marketing is aninvestment that should be making
you money.
That's why nearly 50 companieshave decided to work with Shed
Geek Marketing.
So, for more information, go towww.
(34:49):
shedgeek.
com and submit some basicinformation and we'll reach out
with a discovery call andpatiently walk you through how
we can best serve you.
Thank you for your time andlook forward to working with you
.
So, I'll have to say it doesn'tyou know?
what is it?
An ounce of prevention is wortha pound of cure.
(35:11):
I mean yeah that's really whatwe're talking about here.
It is really important need tomake sure that you have them set
up in each state.
(35:38):
Some states require you to dosome registrations with the
Secretary of State or TaxationOffice in some cases, where you
have to register and specifythat you're in the rent-to-own
industry and you've got to turnover some documents to show them
(36:01):
what you're doing.
Some states are more difficult,I'd say, than others.
Some have more specificprovisions and even like how the
contract has to be laid out.
You know what language has tobe included, what you can charge
(36:22):
for and what you can't.
Caps on rent to own cost overthe cash price, caps on cash
price I mean it's a lot of stufffrom state to state, so each
state is different.
No two states that I can thinkof off the top of my head are
(36:44):
exactly alike.
Some just have very specificrequirements and some are very
general and you can probablyprobably find but it is, uh, it
is so important to get that done.
It's not gonna, you know, havea lawyer look over that or get
(37:05):
somebody to do it for you.
I mean, it is, it's really notgonna, it's gonna.
I'll say it'll be a lot lesscostly to do it that way than to
get popped on the back end.
So that is that is critical andI'm glad you brought it up.
Shed Geek (37:23):
Well, it just, you know, you just hear different
conversations that you have withfolks that well, I mean, we're
constantly growing and learningand trying to do better and you
know, sometimes a path of theopinion of that, the person that
works in that and, like youknow, that's a service that
(38:01):
costs business and it's welldeserved.
So, like you know, we're, yeah,we're appreciative of that,
like anyone else.
But, um, so, what are some?
What are some things you'reseeing now outside of, you know,
government oversight,government provision, that
always has this looming, youknow, booth that's going to drop
(38:24):
on us.
You know, outside of that, whatare things that you see that you
can share here today.
Maybe you can even tease themso that they come to the NSRA
event, but some knowledge thatyou can share with people.
What are some things that yousee that are the most damaging
that are being done right now?
(38:44):
Things that just need to bereversed, things that can be
corrected.
If you're addressing theindustry, and especially those
who work in RTO, what'ssomething you could share today
that you would really want toget across?
Nick Garrard (38:56):
Yeah, that's a good question and we hit on one
of the contracts for sure.
One thing that always comes uptoo is this idea of you know,
when you go to pick up yourbuilding, what can I do to get
my building?
And there's this thing calledthe breach of the peace.
(39:17):
And you know what is that?
And it's a good questionbecause nobody seems to be able
to define it.
It's just a term of art almostin the legal world.
And what's funny is I've saidthis before, but there's in most
(39:37):
of the state statutes.
They talk about being able to.
You know, if your customerdefaults, stops paying, doesn't
renew the lease, you can go getyour building.
Now, sometimes you've got tosend them a letter, you've got
to give them some sort of anotice sometimes.
Sometimes some states itdoesn't matter, you can just go
(39:59):
get it.
But I would say universally,they say you can't breach the
peace in getting your shed.
And somebody asked me one timewell, could we just put in our
contract that we are allowed tobreach the peace?
And I said no, we can't do thateither, because the statutes
(40:23):
actually specify that you can'tdo that.
Your contract cannot say we'reentitled to breach the peace and
get our shed back.
So that's not allowed.
And we did at a conferencemaybe two years ago, we did a
(40:44):
little breakout session aboutthis, but it's just a good
yearly reminder.
Generally, don't cut locks,don't take down fences, don't
move stuff out of the way.
If you can get to your shed,you know, and it's open and good
, you're probably fine.
(41:05):
But much beyond that.
Or if the customer comes outand says you can't get this shed
today, you know you're bumpingup against what is a breach of
the peace.
It's a very low bar, I wouldsay.
And so again, you know I hateto be the lawyer, but if you
(41:29):
were to call me and ask me, hey,can we go get this shed, I
would probably say no, you know,if you're asking my opinion,
but you know.
So that's definitely one thingto always keep in mind.
You know, should I just go getrid of possession, file a little
(41:52):
suit for possession?
Then you're safe, you know.
Then you're safe to get yourstuff.
So that pops up, excuse me,bankruptcies are up.
I've seen a lot morebankruptcies lately.
And you know, with that theother thing I would always tell
people.
You know the other thing Iwould always tell people, you
(42:13):
know.
One file your proof of claim ontime.
I've got forms for you, I'vegot a video I did to show you
what to do.
You can do a lot of that stuffon your own.
And then two is as soon as thecustomer files bankruptcy, there
is an automatic stay in placeso you cannot go get your
(42:37):
building.
You can't really even call themand tell them they got to pay,
you've got to.
It really just puts a pause onthe whole transaction.
In a perfect world they wouldcontinue to pay you because a
lease has to be either paid orrejected and surrendered.
But it's not always a perfectworld and so you know you can't
(43:04):
go get it.
ADVERTISEMENT (43:05):
Oh no, sam, what's?
going on, are you okay?
Yes, I'm fine, lisa, oh no, Sam, what's going on?
Are you okay?
Yes, I'm fine, Lisa.
I was just trying to get ascrewdriver and all this other
stuff fell down.
I'm ready to go buy a shed sowe can have some space in this
(43:27):
garage again.
I agree, I keep looking at theshed Mr Jenkins bought.
Let's ask him where.
I got his Howdy neighbor.
We're wondering how do you likeyour shed?
I love it.
It's exactly what I needed, andI couldn't have asked for a
better service.
And where did you get it?
(43:48):
Hmm, I can't remember, but letme check Something.
This nice will probably havethe builder's name on it
somewhere.
Hmm, no, I'm sorry, I can'tfind a name anywhere.
Well, we finally got a shed.
(44:11):
Yes, I just hope we're happy.
The thing is a lot more shoddythan I expected, and I'm sure I
told them I wanted a window, butthey didn't have it in the
paperwork so I couldn't argue.
Boy is this a lousy shed.
(44:32):
We haven't even had it twoyears, have we?
Barely.
It was just a bad deal all theway around.
Mr Jenkins told me the otherday that he likes his shed so
much he wants to get a secondone, but he still can't remember
where he got it.
Your product is your bestadvertising.
At IdentiGrow, we providenameplates that ensure your
quality products are neverforgotten.
(44:53):
Identify your products, growyour business.
For more information, visitidentigrow.
com.
Nick Garrard (45:03):
And what happens sometimes is a customer will
forget oh I forgot I had thatshed back there when I filed my
bankruptcy and I forgot to tellmy lawyer about it.
And so, the shed companydoesn't know about it, and they
go and get it.
Well, you know, I meantechnically, even though they
(45:28):
didn't have notice, there'sstill a stay issue.
So, getting on PACER, which isthe federal court database,
searching your customer, makingsure there's not a bankruptcy
case out there, just doublechecking, so stuff like that
(45:53):
Stay on top of your customers.
Don't let the accounts get 60,90 days past due.
That's when we see a lot ofissues Sheds go missing or
they're stolen or sold.
I would say those are mybiggest three, four areas that
(46:14):
are just, you know, a constant,a constant in this, in my side
of the business.
Shed Geek (46:24):
Because I wrote down trends here, because we
initially discussed trends lostbuildings, stolen buildings,
theft rings yeah, those are realconversations in the shed world
and probably especially in theRTO world.
What comes to mind whenever youhear those terms?
Nick Garrard (46:52):
Just education with your dealers and knowing
who you're dealing with.
You know, making sure you doyour due diligence on who your
partners are and who you arechoosing to partner with, doing
some background research.
You know a deal is too good tobe true.
(47:17):
It probably is.
Yeah, I mean, I hear of thosethings out there.
I hear of those things outthere.
I don't have a lot of directknowledge or work in a lot of
that stuff, but I know it's outthere, I know it's a real
(47:38):
concern and it seems like, fromwhat I know and the ones I've
worked with or helped orwhatever it comes down to, you
know, we didn't know enoughabout that guy or this group or
whatever and there was someshady dealings going on with
them and you know it just is alearning opportunity.
Shed Geek (48:04):
So, you said earlier, an ounce of prevention is worth
a pound of cure.
I find that to be educationalside team seems to be.
You know it's always the, thepart that we missed right, an
educational piece to, to tryingto prevent some of these things.
I think that's, you know, to methat's.
(48:24):
I see the NSRA as much of thatis trying to help create that
educational segment.
You know it seems to be.
You know what the part of theprocess is, there for your
attendance and it sounds likemaybe for your membership, which
is going to be a new thing, youknow, to be able to actually be
(48:45):
a member.
You know, I think, about othertrade associations, like you
know the rent-to actually be amember.
You know, I think about othertrade associations, like you
know the rent-to-own, the waythey've done it, but, like you
know, a builder association, abuilding association, you know,
a selling association, a haulingassociation, you know all of
these different things that are,you know, meant to work in
(49:05):
collaboration with otherorganizations or other
associations within the industry, to help, um, you know, just to
help us serve better, help usbe better as an organization.
We're an industry that seems tobe moving from our baby years,
to our toddler years, to prettysoon being a full grown up, you
(49:26):
know, industry if we're notcareful.
It's kind of neat to watchbecause it's so much different
now than it was when I was firstexposed to it.
With that comes increasedcompetition and all these
different things.
We really see an increase incompetition in rent-to-own.
(49:46):
This may not be in the worldthat you play in, I'm not sure
but I'm curious that from alegal perspective, on the record
here on the record, we're likeGreta, we're bringing you on the
record.
Okay, what are your thoughts,or do you have any, as to where
(50:07):
rent-to-own is going with allthe different bells and whistles
nowadays?
You know, 90 days, same as cash.
Six months, same as cash.
12 months, same as cash.
72-month contracts, dealerpremiums Do you have any
thoughts on any of these thingsor do they matter in that legal
world for you?
Thoughts on any of these things?
Nick Garrard (50:28):
or do they matter in that legal world?
For you Only this, and that is,if it's an option in that state
that you're working in, thenlet's try it out and see how it
does.
Again, it comes back to thecompetition free and open
competition.
(50:48):
One company is going to trysomething a little different.
Let's see if it works.
And then another company triessomething else, let's see if it
works.
So, I'm for innovation and theidea that just because we've
done it one way doesn't mean wehave to continue doing it that
(51:10):
way.
You know, I'm a Cubs fan andthey lost for 108 years and
finally they went.
Let's do something differentand they won the World Series.
So, I like well, I shouldn'tsay I like change, because
(51:33):
really, I'm not, I'm a creatureof habit, but I like innovation
in this industry because wecan't stay where we are and just
stay stagnant.
I think it's important to growand change and update, but to do
so in a way that reallycontinues to bring focus to the
(51:58):
customer.
What we're trying to do, Ithink, is offer customers the
opportunity to have a productthat maybe they wouldn't
otherwise be able to afford orcouldn't purchase on their own.
So, you're providing a serviceto the customers.
(52:21):
And if our association keepsthat in mind, with a focus on
(52:45):
doing the right thing, doingthings open and honest and above
board, then the innovation thatcomes from it, I think, will
just blossom.
I mean, we're just going tocontinue to grow and expand.
So, you know, let's try it Ifsomebody has an idea and wants
to run with it and pursue it youknow I'm open for it and I
(53:05):
encourage it.
ADVERTISEMENT (53:08):
Are you a dealer who sells multiple products at
your shed lot?
Are you tired of siftingthrough clunky or
overcomplicated softwares tosimply sell a product?
If so, it's time to call Cal.
Consumer Aligned Logistics isthe affordable, simplified and
scalable solution for your shed,carport or even r company.
We are partnered with idea roomand shed pro for configurators
(53:32):
and have multiple RTO partnersto choose from, from JMAG to
Heartland to Shed Geek Rentalsand Scott's RTO.
And if your partner isn'tlisted here, just ask.
We are happy to add more.
Give us a call at 425-359-3279or visit calcanhelp.
com.
(53:53):
That's C-A-L-C-A-N-H-E-L-P.
com.
Shed Geek (54:00):
I want to tease you about being a Cubs fan, because
I grew up at Cardinal Countryjust to be clear and I'm smart
enough not to tease you aboutthat right now.
So I, that's right.
Ryan Sandberg was still one ofmy favorite players of all time
(54:23):
growing up, mark Grace.
But I've just been.
Yeah, I've just been an Ozzieand Albert, I've just I've just
been an Aussie and Albert Pujolsand Yadier Molina guy for so
long that.
But yeah, Ryan Sandberg stillholds the place as my favorite
second baseman and I can'treally speak on much I have for
the last 108 years.
The Cubs were not doing good,but my partner, I sure can't say
(54:44):
too much right now because youguys are leading in our division
.
But that's awesome.
Yeah, it's awesome.
I love talking baseball becauseit's a passion of mine growing
up just as much as Sheds hasbecome in my later years here.
Me too.
(55:05):
So many just different thoughtslater years here, but so many
just different thoughts.
You know, gosh, we reallyshould do this, you know, each
year, because I think about allthe change to rent to own.
You know, I hear people sayfinance a lot.
What does that?
Does that just stick in yourcrawl any whenever you hear
finance and like how that isrelated to rent to own?
(55:27):
Like, have we not done?
Nick Garrard (55:33):
What are your thoughts on that?
Well, you're really notfinancing the transaction.
In fact, I'm working onsomething today where a
bankruptcy case in Texas and youknow the customer's lawyer is
trying to make some argumentabout it being a finance
(55:54):
transaction.
And it's not.
It's a true rental transaction.
The customer rents the property.
They just become the ownerafter 36, 48, whatever months.
But what's critical in that isthat they always maintain the
(56:18):
option to terminate theagreement.
There's your vital piece ofinformation in your contract
termination agreement.
They're not obligated tocontinue to rent the shed or the
property, and that's true,really that, going back to what
we first started, you know thetransaction between a shed
(56:42):
rent-to-own, or a TV applianceor car rims or whatever else
they're doing.
It's the same transaction andit's the same, you know.
So, it's not financed, and youneed to avoid using that because
it puts you in a differentcategory of treatment for
bankruptcy.
(57:02):
It puts you in a differenttaxation type.
I'm not a tax lawyer, I'm justtold.
Puts you in a differenttaxation type.
I'm not a tax lawyer, I'm justtold.
But you know, and so let'savoid that, avoid that language.
You're not financing it, you'rerenting it to the customer, and
they have the option to own itor purchase it or just turn it
(57:24):
in after three months and bedone with it.
So that's yeah, that'simportant for sure.
Shed Geek (57:33):
Yeah, I think that educational piece comes back
into that conversation quicklyand like whose responsibility is
it to educate?
Is it the rent-to-own company'sresponsibility to educate the
their customer and then theircustomers, customers?
So, if it's a manufacturer andtheir dealer network, is it the
(57:55):
manufacturer's responsibility?
Uh, because our dealer networksare so fragmented with, you
know, a mixture of umconsignment versus wholesale and
, and you know, and maybe two orthree other types of models,
where does the burden ofresponsibility fall on so that
(58:17):
the customer is getting theinformation?
Of course they're signing thecontract, but what
responsibility do we have toensure that they understand that
contract?
And I can only imagine theseare conversations you have when
you actually end up in acourtroom defending a contract.
What advice can you give to adealer today, or to someone who
(58:41):
doesn't play in the world thatyou do of high-level legal
conversation in regards to RTOcontracts, buildings that are,
you know, put on RTOs.
Nick Garrard (58:57):
Well, I think, first of all, to address the
point of whose responsibility isit?
I think it's, I think it's allof ours.
I think it's really a vitalpart that the association is
going to play moving forward,that we as an industry have an
(59:20):
idea of how the transactionshould work in terms of what the
transaction is.
So, we have our members who aremembers of the association, who
, through coming to theconference and accessing the
member portal, come to have agreater understanding about some
(59:42):
of the nuances of thetransaction, and that they need
to be passing that along totheir dealers.
We want dealers to come to theconference, we want dealers to
be members, we want vendors tocome and vendors to be members.
All of this to funnel down, toultimately pass along to the
(01:00:04):
customer, who fully understandsthe transaction and understands
that we are providing a servicethat allows them to get property
, or, you know, a set of tiresor whatever it is that maybe
they couldn't otherwise get.
So, I think the idea is itfunnels down from the top.
(01:00:24):
I think the idea is it funnelsdown from the top.
And we, being up here, you know, I think, the industry leaders,
we're all at the top, so we allhave to make sure that that
information is getting down toeverybody else out in the field.
(01:00:45):
No-transcript, what you'rereally even providing.
(01:01:11):
Um, yeah, we'll finance it, oryeah, you know, but, but it's a,
you have to see it as a service.
I think that's why I keepsaying it, but, um, yeah you
know and that's what you'redoing.
And so, I find that in the past,probably three or four years, a
(01:01:32):
large part of my legal practiceeven has been that education
piece.
So I host, you know, I'll hosta training session on how to do
X, y or Z, how to handle thisbankruptcy, how to you know,
kind of general sessions,because I want my clients to be
(01:01:54):
able to have that information,to know what they can do on
their own and what you know theway things should happen, so
that when they, when a problemarises, you don't just
immediately have to call andhire a lawyer.
You can have, you have someknowledge and know what to do,
(01:02:15):
how to handle it.
And if something you know sayyou have a list of five things
and if you know at some point itfalls off the rails, okay, well
then maybe you need to call andtalk to a lawyer that education
piece is vital.
That's why I'm excited aboutwhere the association's headed.
(01:02:42):
I think it's going to make myjob easier, which is great.
Shed Geek (01:02:47):
Yeah, you want that educational piece out there so
that you don't end up dealingwith these things later.
I think you said it early inthe call.
You know.
I hope you don't have to callme unless it's, you know, just
getting things established.
Yeah, as opposed to me havingto defend any actions.
That's always a sign of, youknow, negativity.
(01:03:08):
I guess that you know.
But that's why you're here,that's why you provide a service
.
Where do you think it's going?
I almost, I almost want to askthis question because I'm
curious.
You have an answer to it, youknow.
My, my, my, my primary questionis where do you think it's
going?
My secondary question is justhow much does rent to own prop
(01:03:33):
up the industry in your opinion?
Is it a large section ofcontracts that are out there and
, if so, would that have anyeffect on the industry long term
?
But where do you think it'sgoing?
Maybe you can wrap all those upinto one question that you can
answer comprehensively.
Nick Garrard (01:03:53):
That's.
You know that's a good questionand I hate to keep kind of
throwing it back off on theassociation, but really, I mean
these are the questions that theboard members have been asking
themselves.
These are the questions thatthe board members have been
asking themselves and you knowthey want to know the size of
(01:04:17):
the industry, the percentage ofpeople involved with Renton, the
percentage of those people thatare involved with the
association there hasn't been areal detailed analysis of, I
think, the association as awhole and to know, you know,
where we are now versus wherewe're going, and that's part of
what we're excited to be doing.
You know, I think that wherewe're headed with the membership
(01:04:46):
offerings conference is great.
I think it will continue togrow.
I see my role, like I said, inthe past three or four years
there's been almost a shiftwhere, yes, I'm still doing a
lot of what I've done for thepast ten years.
I'm still doing a lot of whatI've done for the past 10 years,
(01:05:07):
but a greater emphasis ontraining, training customers,
working with staff, whereas, youknow, in years past maybe
somebody, something went wrong Iwould just get an email saying
here's a, here's a file for youto handle and please help us get
this building back or whatever.
Now I see a lot more management, internal and helping groups
(01:05:38):
like that and helping them workon projects themselves.
I think you'll see more of that.
I think there's room in theindustry for the smaller groups,
where you just have amanufacturer who's wanting to
(01:06:03):
sell or rent on sheds, andthat's great.
Who's wanting to sell or renton sheds, and that's great.
There's room in the industry forpeople that are working in 10
states.
There's people that are workingin 50 states.
You know there's a place at thetable for everybody.
We're going to make themembership and the association
(01:06:28):
work for all of those people, um, and we, we want it to be a
group, a group effort, because,um, every each of those people
the small one, mom and pop store, I'd say to the 50 states have,
uh, have a lot to offer anddifferent perspectives, and
we're, we're, we want to haveall of those perspectives in our
(01:06:51):
, in our industry and in ourassociation.
So, um, in that respect, Idon't, I don't want to see um
too much change, because I like,I like that there's different
sizes, different groups.
I like that there's a largecollaboration from coast to
(01:07:12):
coast.
So, I think that'll stay thesame, and I expect it will, and
I'm happy that it will becauseit's good for all of us.
Shed Geek (01:07:23):
Who can be involved in Rent to Own, Nick?
Is there anybody that shouldn'tbe, can't be well, we don't
want.
Nick Garrard (01:07:34):
Well, I shouldn't say we don't want you.
We want people that that youknow they want to serve their
customers well and offer aservice.
It's not just a businessopportunity.
I mean you've got to see it asmore than that.
Anybody can be involved,obviously, and know insurance
(01:08:16):
claimants make the insuranceindustry look bad.
We want people that want to bein the industry and that see it
as a way to help and to helpothers, and that's really what I
think of.
(01:08:36):
I mean, that's those.
Those people make the bestbusinessmen and managers, and
they make the best clients.
And so, everybody's,everybody's welcome and we want
you to be involved.
Shed Geek (01:08:59):
Yeah, Very good man.
An hour goes by too fast,Honestly, when we're talking it.
Just you know there's so muchconversation to be had and I
like to tell people being on thepodcast is less intimidating
than they may realize.
We even invite you knowcompetitors on, even competitors
in the rent-owned space.
We love to have goodconversation because I feel like
(01:09:22):
, uh, you know, healthy debateand conversation and encourages
us all and like I learned fromthat and I think iron sharpens
iron I think others learn fromthat too, and to be able to put
free content and conversationout there for people to listen
to is always encouraging.
So, you know we have an openmic for everybody.
Nick Garrard (01:09:46):
Well, it's, you know, bad lawyers make bad laws.
The good lawyers, although theymight challenge you a little
more, but you grow in adifferent way than if you're
dealing with.
You know.
Somebody that didn't you knowis not a great lawyer.
(01:10:12):
I don't know that might soundmean, but I'm just, yeah, I'm
open for that healthy, open,honest debate and it makes us
all better.
Shed Geek (01:10:22):
Yeah, absolutely Any thoughts that you want to give.
Like we would definitely.
Uh, we'll link this maybe tothe NSRA website, um, you know,
so that, uh, people know whereto go.
There's always on ournewsletter there's always a
description of today's show.
I'm assuming you want it to gothere.
(01:10:42):
We're happy to link it to yourlaw practice if you would prefer
that either way.
Nick Garrard (01:10:48):
Yeah, happy for you too.
That'd be great, yeah.
Yeah, you've got my info anddetails.
That'd be wonderful if you wantto do that, and you know I just
I'm looking forward to seeingeverybody in Knoxville.
It's a great opportunity to seeeverybody again, and you know
(01:11:11):
it'll be a lot of fun.
So, I hope everybody comes.
I hope new people come.
So please, please reach out ifyou need anything from me in the
meantime.
If anybody wants to know how toget a hold of you, how would
(01:11:32):
they do that?
They can go to.
Our website is WilkinsPatterson.
com.
W-i-l-k-i-n-s-p-a-t-t-e-r-s-o-n.
com.
You can Google me, Nick Garrard.
My number is 601-366-4343.
(01:11:53):
That'll roll right to my cellphone if I'm not here, so call
me text me whatever you need.
Perfect.
Any final thoughts you want toshare?
No, this has been fun.
I'm always happy to answerquestions, so I love this
(01:12:15):
industry.
I love the people that I workwith.
It's a privilege to representthem and the association and it
means a lot to me to be here andto do that and I just am
thankful for that, thankful foryour podcast, and just hope you
(01:12:37):
continue to prosper and do welland look forward to seeing you
soon.
Shed Geek (01:12:45):
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
It really is a good industry tobe in, as all industries are.
They come with their fair share, you know, of not fun um, but
overall it's.
I've met some lifelong friendsthrough this and some, just some
(01:13:05):
, some people that really haveinspired me to be better, uh, to
do better, um, some very wisecounsel and like that's just um,
that's really priceless at theend of the day.
So, uh, any questions for me?
Podcast related, shed related,just anything at all.
(01:13:29):
I always like to hit people upat the end of it and say I spend
a lot of time asking youquestions.
Do you have any questions?
What'd you have for lunch?
You know what I had?
I had Dairy Queen chicken stripbasket.
We have been going.
Hey, there we go.
We have been eating at homeevery single day.
(01:13:51):
Me and my wife have been onthis journey to focus on
healthier eating, living and allof that.
And today I had three podcasts,and a marketing call lined up
and I said I'm not going to getaway from the desk aside from
all other calls, and so she'slike I'll just run and get Dairy
Queen real quick.
So that's your Shed Geek on aThursday afternoon and a rainy
(01:14:14):
day here in Metropolis, Illinois.
Nick Garrard (01:14:18):
There's nothing wrong with that.
Everybody needs a little DairyQueen here and there.
Shed Geek (01:14:24):
Yeah, that's right.
Well, it was fun as usual.
Hang on here.
I'll chat with you just beforewe get out of here, but I do
want to say thank you for beingon.
We'd love to make this a likethat.
It's a pleasure that we caneven have this conversation,
(01:14:50):
that people can come togetherfor that, for that purpose.
Nick Garrard (01:14:54):
I agree and I'm happy to.
I'll join you anytime, Just letme know.
Shed Geek (01:14:59):
Appreciate it.
Thank you, Nick All right Thankyou.
Outro (01:15:03):
Thanks again, Shed Pro, for being the Shed Geek's studio
sponsor for 2025.
, if you need any moreinformation about Shed Pro or
about Shed Geek, just reach out.
You can reach us by email atinfo@ Shedgeek.
com, or just go to our website,www.
shedgeek.
com, and submit a form with yourinformation and we'll be in
(01:15:26):
contact right away.
Thank you again for listening,as always, to today's episode of
the Shed Geek podcast.
Thank you and have a blessedday.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.