April 23, 2025 • 60 mins
When it comes to the shed industry, the relationship between manufacturers and dealers can make or break a business. Rami joins Shannon to dive deep into the often unspoken tensions and opportunities that exist in these critical partnerships.
The conversation tackles head-on the reality that not all dealers approach their shed business with the same level of commitment. Some make it their primary income source, investing heavily in growth, while others view it as supplemental income alongside other ventures. As Rami points out, "Both scenarios can work well if expectations are clearly established on both sides."
Commission structures emerge as a major pain point for many dealers. At just 10% commission, even those selling a million dollars annually struggle to reinvest in marketing and growth. "That 10% needs to adjust," Rami asserts, recommending dealers negotiate higher rates or diversify with complementary products like carports that can create multiple revenue streams from the same customer.
Perhaps the most powerful segment explores the 80/20 rule in dealer networks, where typically 80% of business comes from just 20% of dealers. This reality forces tough decisions about resource allocation and relationship management. "Facts are unwavering and immovable," Rami states bluntly, "If you factually are not doing your job, I will factually find someone who will."
The digital transformation of retail receives special attention, with both hosts emphasizing that relying solely on drive-by traffic is no longer viable. "It's not 1996 anymore," Rami reminds listeners, noting that even basic websites have become affordable and accessible for businesses of all sizes.
Whether you're a manufacturer looking to optimize your dealer network or a dealer seeking to strengthen your position and profitability, this episode delivers actionable insights that could transform your approach to the shed business. Subscribe to the Shed Geek podcast for more industry conversations that tackle the real challenges facing shed professionals today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shed Geek (00:08):
Thank you for listening to part two of a
two-part series here at the ShedGeek podcast.
If you missed part one, just goback to last week and listen
for more engaging conversationhere at the Shed Geek podcast.
But I'm going to run through acouple of these real quick and
just give your you know you'vegot your answers on there for
(00:29):
anybody who wants to go back butjust a couple of thoughts, what
you might see if you were tojoin, like the Shed Sales
Professionals page.
You know some of the thingsthat we might talk about on
there.
But this is I did like thislittle list of 10 and all.
Number one this was thequestion I asked and it's kind
of in regard to how I'm wantingto do a column and my next
column for shed business journalto kind of have these
(00:52):
conversations with the peoplewho are in it to talk about that
.
But I put in here number onenot all dealers are created
equal.
Some sell as a primary means ofincome, some sell because they
have five acres and they likethe idea proposed to them by a
sales manager to make a littleextra cash.
What's your thoughts on that?
Rami, does that, given yourexperience, I'll be quiet.
Rami Al-Chacar (01:15):
Yeah well, no, no no need to be quiet.
This is your game.
No, so either venue is good,either scenario is good.
Uh, you just have to know whatthe expectation is on both sides
.
Um, so, if you have somebodythat's retired and just looking
(01:38):
to make a little bit of sideincome, there's your expectation
.
If you've got somebody who isthis is my bread and butter and
I like I'm sinking my teeth intothis thing and I'm like, okay,
here's your expectation, here isyour uh, maybe extra one or two
demos, I mean, it's just, itdepends on the scenario.
Both are really good um,opportunities, but it's just.
(02:06):
You know, don't set, you don'tgo in expecting somebody who's
kind of retired and not reallyyou know into it all the way to,
to blow your sock, the socksoff of anything.
Now, it doesn't mean that youwon't have lightning in a bottle
and just you know, be mindblown.
But it is people in like, onthe older side of the of this
(02:28):
industry, uh, who are on theolder, older side in this
industry.
There's a lot of technology nowand there's some hurdles and
whatnot.
So, it kind of adds, uh, alayer of complexity, because now
you're as the manufacturer, forexample, are having to train
your retailer how to use acomputer, you know.
It's just you know, and so itjust.
(02:50):
It depends on what yourexpectation is.
But as long as you set yourexpectations and lay it out and
they can accept or not accept,and same with the other side,
hey, this is, you know, you'reambitious, you're hungry, you're
eager, you're wanting to makethese sales.
This is what I need from you toget this extra little bit of
(03:11):
commission, or get this extralittle bit, this special
discount, like the company thatwe, some of the companies we
work with, occasionally they'llhave specific discounts that are
catered directly to us, um, andyou know, so you kind of push
along that that way a little bit.
I've even um discussed somehaving like an express lane,
(03:33):
like if you have a million-dollar dealer and you have a
like thousand- dollar dealer, uh, let them have that two to four
week turnaround time instead ofthis guy that's selling a
onesie, twosie and it's littletops and little eight by tens or
whatever.
Like, maybe give them the fourto six weeks.
You know, and so it just, itdepends on um, your approach and
(03:56):
the expectation.
But as long as it's made clearand as long as it's being
reciprocated, then then you'recruising.
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Shed Geek (05:47):
Perfect, I appreciate your answer.
Let's see Number two.
It's tough for a consignmentdealer who receives 10%
commission to invest in aneffective marketing plan, even
if they're selling a million ayear.
And I'll kind of follow up withsome thoughts there and then
let you run with it.
You know, at 10%, a million ayear, you've got $100,000 in
(06:08):
gross revenue.
Don't know what you want toconsider.
A good, healthy income Dependson, maybe, your financial
situation If you're retired, asyou said, if you've got a family
or whatever.
But there's quite a bit ofexpenses that come out.
If you're having to cover yourown lot rent, maybe you buy the
building come out.
If you're having to cover yourown lot rent, maybe you buy the
building there.
Maybe you're buying a property.
But you know, uh, this issomething that we run against in
(06:30):
in marketing.
Uh, is people struggle.
People struggle even at amillion dollars to be able to
afford a comprehensive plan tobe beneficial is that, is that
their responsibility?
The manufacturers, themanufacturers already putting
all this, as you said, all ofthese sheds out here 50 times 50
, and they've got a ton of moneyinto them.
(06:51):
So, it just, you know, theconversation stays in the air
and I'm curious your thoughts onand others thoughts on that.
Rami Al-Chacar (07:00):
Yeah.
So, for anything, 10% is kindof small now in comparison to
what is out there.
I mean, especially if you sella million dollars a year, like
you said, your take home foryour business is $100,000.
Taxes are coming out of that.
Obviously, rent is coming outof that, I mean.
(07:21):
So go ahead and probably take$20,000, at least probably for
the year, out off the top again.
So, you're at 80, not, and thenyou have your taxes.
So, you're probably in the 70or 60 range now and you haven't
paid light bill, you haven'tpaid water bill, you haven't
paid internet.
So that 10% needs to adjust.
(07:43):
So, what I would recommend is acouple of things.
One is always try to negotiateto get a higher commission tier.
Now, sometimes the doors closeon that, and if it is, then
either deal with it and findanother venue, which we'll
address in a second, or maybethey'll say yes, and if you can
(08:04):
go even from 10% to 12%, for youthat's a 20% raise, just that
2%, and so that goes a long way.
So, if you can get them to 15%,well, now we're doing some
business.
So now, obviously I'm justmaking up some percentages here.
(08:26):
I don't, you know, everybodyhas different scenarios, um, but
uh, 10% is kind of like anentry level.
Let's see how this goes.
Kind of percentage, I, I, Iwould be very hesitant to stay
on that very long, unless you'rejust kind of doing a onesie,
twosie kind of thing.
Uh, now, on the other side ofthings, this is going back to
(08:49):
again the original conversation,which is that's also why you
have supplemental products.
You don't want just sheds, youneed uh in the business.
Well, in the finance world theycall it diversifying your
portfolio to where the shedeconomy might tank but carport
economy doesn't, for example,and so you still have something
(09:11):
to pay all your bills and to payyour employees, to pay yourself
.
And then you add anotherproduct.
So, I've seen there's a milliondifferent things four wheelers,
lawnmowers, you know whatever.
Golf carts, whatever you know.
And you don't want that thirdthing to really cannibalize
(09:32):
anything else.
But you know you're settingyourself up to where, okay, I
get $100,000 for sheds, I getanother 50 or 60 or 100,000,
some dollars in commissions fromcarports, and then I have, I
don't know, 20,000 or 30,000extra, uh, 20,000 extra dollars
from commissions on thissupplemental something.
Uh, and now you're lessstressed about you know where
(09:57):
you're going to.
Uh, you know, get your nextsale from cause you're, you're.
You're not just solidifying your, you know the business side of
things, but you're also settingyourself up to where, uh, your
scope is larger.
So now more people areattracted to your business for a
variety of things.
And then something I've runinto really in there in the
(10:20):
recent hit, in my recent history, is you'll have a customer come
in and now they're not justbuying one thing.
We have this mentality wheresomebody's coming in and buying
a shed, and well, they justspent literally all their money
and now they're I'll see you ineither three months to go pick
up your shed for repo, or we'llsee you in five years or
(10:42):
whatever the term is, so you canget another thing.
But in reality, there arecustomers who they've been
saving, or they just make goodmoney, or they get approved for
$20,000.
And the first thing they'relooking at is a $10,000 shed.
Now you're getting a $5,000carport with the same color
scheme that goes in theirbackyard, and so now you made
(11:04):
$15,000 in sales instead of 10.
So, it's 50% increase.
Shed Geek (11:09):
Service after the sale man Service after the sale
brings so many people.
It's so important and I justdon't even know if we really.
There's probably some that havefocused on it.
No great answer.
Appreciate the thoughts there.
Number three shed companiesalready invest.
We talked about this right.
They already invest thousandsof dollars into a shed lot.
(11:32):
How can they possibly beresponsible for also marketing
the products?
That's the lot owner's job.
Again, not saying I agree withthese things, I'm just stating
things I've heard said before.
Rami Al-Chacar (11:44):
What's your thoughts on this?
So any relationship needs to besymbiotic, meaning we need to
be reliant upon each other.
Now again, we're talkingearlier about setting the
expectation.
If the expectation is set inthe initial stages, where, no,
this is, we've given you at thisprice, you sell it for this
price, this other price, andthen you handle your own
(12:05):
marketing Okay, sure, but ifit's something where, okay, we
just got thrown this majoreconomic curveball, let's take
this to the drawing board alittle bit.
And really frustrates me is ithas taken me all 14 years just
(12:28):
about to get quality photos frommanufacturers on stuff so I can
use for, like, carport salesand things like that.
It's out there, but it's alwayssomething like the installer
took it and it's at a jaggedangle or whatever, and it's just
, you know it's getting it'sfree, you know, just have a
(12:50):
picture.
Once the project's done andeverything's cleaned up, take a
picture or two.
That way we're not having totry travel all around the East
coast to every customer.
So, getting that as a freething that manufacturers can
provide and doesn't cost them adime.
It's just they're not doingthat, or at least a lot of them
are not.
Um, so it would be nice to kindof have something like that,
(13:12):
but especially when you'rethrown from circling back where
we're talking about a second agouh, this big economic curveball
where no one knows what toexpect.
Covid reassembled our culturalDNA and also our economic DNA,
so everyone's still trying torebound from all of that.
(13:35):
There is no reason why a dealershouldn't be unwilling to put
forth any effort towards theirmarketing, but there should also
be zero reasons why amanufacturer cannot reciprocate
their efforts, especially intoday's climate.
Now again, if this is how youwant to do it, then fine, but
(13:59):
I'm here to make money.
At the end of the day, as longas you're making money, as long
as I'm making money, that's whatmatters.
And so, um, uh, so the?
I guess my short answer to thatwould be never, uh, never, be
(14:19):
content with where you are.
And it's like you know, if wecan, if we can do this, then
let's do it, and if we can makesome money, I don't care how we
do it, as long as it's legal, atleast then do it.
Shed Geek (14:30):
I've been a big fan of the co-op programs that I've
seen, sometimes throughout theindustry.
That really goes a long way,especially for a dealer coming
in to kind of feel like theyhave the support from the
company who's willing to engageor able to engage in something
like that.
It's a struggle for thebusiness owner, the manufacturer
and the dealer a lot of timesto make it.
(14:51):
We're all trying to make itright.
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Shed Geek (16:41):
Many of them don't want to, and even if the lead is
good, they think it's a badcustomer if they don't pick up
the phone when they're ready tocall them and buy right away.
Rami Al-Chacar (16:56):
If you have a salesperson that will not call a
customer, you do not have asalesperson.
Big statement Powerfulstatement it's just you part of
sales.
Well, I said it in one of thequestions like sales is more
than just sales.
You're an educator and you'reguiding your customer to a
(17:19):
solution that either they'venever thought of before or have
been dreaming about, and you'remaking it a reality.
So, you're leading them here.
So, there needs to be aparadigm shift with that.
Now I am not talking about coldcalling.
I have a moral line that Iwon't cross and one of those is,
(17:41):
well, a set of moral lines.
I have a lot.
I have a lot of moral lines butI'm not going to cross with.
I'm not going to call, coldcall people.
They didn't give me theirinformation, they didn't want to
, and I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about when theyexpress interest.
They voluntarily gave usinformation about a product.
(18:02):
You have zero reason not tocall them.
You have zero reason not to tryto help them get what they are
begging someone to give them.
So, I've always been frustratedwith the sales mindset of that.
I don't want to say frustrated,but it's always almost
(18:25):
discouraging when a salesperson,who's good, is too timid to
move.
There's got to be actioninvolved and there's got to be
that momentum and the customerwill gravitate towards that as
well.
Now, obviously, you don't abuseit Like.
I used to work for a in my yeargap that I told you about, I
(18:47):
took a little bit of a break.
I went and sold used cars.
I did not make it a year, Imade it 11 months, and they
would barrage my customers withphone calls.
I mean just an absolute barrage.
And then on top of that, theywould want me to call them as
well.
So, one day I took a step backand I went.
(19:07):
They had a little trackers foreverything and I took the number
of phone calls it took for meto close a customer versus the
ones that never answered at all,and my average phone call per
customer before they purchasedin this scenario was two, and
they were wanting me to callthem 40.
You know, it's just like.
(19:28):
So we're not talking aboutabusing your customers, we're
talking about engaging them anddrawing them in and then giving
them something that they alreadyneed.
Shed Geek (19:38):
And there's a big difference.
There was a time I was going tosell cars Rami need.
And there's a big difference.
There was a time I was going tosell cars Rami and I was sort
of sharing my mentality with theperson who would be doing the
hiring.
I don't know what his title was, but I kind of told him about
how I'm on this new journey andI had found God and was moving
(20:00):
forward in my life and my faithand trying to operate out of
that and find maybe my purposein life.
And I didn't think maybeselling cars was it, but I
needed a place to land, earnmoney, get solid, and so I was
just kind of sharing a littlebit of my faith story and things
like that.
And the guy just point blank,point blank told me he said you
(20:20):
don't want to work here becauseit's going to be a conflict with
your morals.
I can tell yeah.
Rami Al-Chacar (20:26):
It was just like we do what we can to get the
sale.
Shed Geek (20:31):
Well, that's what he offered me the job.
He said you can work here ifyou want.
I just don't think you're goingto like it, and I was like I
think you're right.
I think, if you're that honestwith me, he's like we do
whatever it takes to get thesale, it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter.
Your morals are going to get inthe way of that.
I can tell I was just like wow.
Rami Al-Chacar (20:48):
People will disagree with this and I'm fine
with that.
I am very confident in this.
I will lose a sale.
Before I lie to a customerAgain, I will say this I like my
sleep at night.
I don't need much, but thelittle that I do sleep, I like
it.
I don't like stressing I don'tlike being distracted, so I will
(21:11):
not lie to the customer and Iwill lose the sale and have lost
sales before.
I have to mislead them.
And I think when a customer cansense that they they're
grabbing, they gravitate towardthat.
And there's some that won't andsome that don't sense it, and
that's okay, it's, for me it'sworth it and I, I hold, I hold
(21:32):
to that.
Shed Geek (21:34):
Let's take a look at the concern or the ownership
side a little bit here now onquestion number five, or
statement number five.
I'm the owner of thesebuildings, I produce them, I put
them out there on these lotsand if the dealer doesn't work
the lead then we will do itin-house ourselves.
They can either get with theprogram or they can move on.
(21:55):
What's your thoughts on that,Rami?
Rami Al-Chacar (21:58):
uh 100 like if, if I'm, if well, it goes back to
earlier If I'm a manufacturerproviding leads to someone and
they're like I'm putting fortheffort, I'm doing my part and
actually doing you a favor andyou're not wanting absolutely, I
would 100% support selling thatlead.
(22:20):
They're going to buy fromsomewhere and it's gonna be from
my company.
Whether you do it for mycompany or we do it for my
company is up to the salesperson.
But, um, um, yeah, if, if, if,as a manufacturer, or even as a
retail like a, like a corporateoffice for retailer if you're
(22:42):
disseminating these leads toyour sales team and they're not
doing their job, then someone isgoing to get this sale.
Yeah, I have no issues withthat at all.
Shed Geek (22:53):
Is there an obligation for the manufacturer
to share some or all of thatcommission to that dealer who
has a protected radius?
Or is that lead and the fullcommission?
Does that belong to the company?
Now, If the company has alreadyattempted to get the dealer to
(23:16):
work the lead, they've boughtthe lead, they've spent the
money to get it.
Here you go, what do they get?
Rami Al-Chacar (23:22):
Zero, zero obligation.
Now, on the flip side of thatcoin is if this is a good sales
person or sales team and justI've even seen this like.
I have a manufacturer that doesthis for us If they sell
something like they had acustomer that just randomly
(23:43):
called their manufacturingfacility and made that sale if
they, in turn, turn around andfind out that we had initiated
contact with this customer or inany form or fashion within
reason, obviously, then they'llissue us full commission.
So that's the other side ofthings.
But if, if you have, uh, thealternative would be just firing
(24:09):
them.
Honestly, even they're, this ispart of their core job.
So, if they're not doing it,then there's a problem and there
needs to be a conversation, theall.
But as an alternative andreally a courteous alternative
is, instead of and it's a littlebit abrasive but instead of
like terminating their, theiremployment, you're just keeping
(24:30):
the sale.
You know, I think it's a fairtrade.
Now, it's not always black andwhite like that and I fully
understand, but at the end ofthe day, you have a job.
If you're not doing it, thensomeone else needs to
So that's my um abrasive butaccurate uh um approach to that
Shed Geek (24:49):
it's kind of uh, it's kind of a similar, like the
answer that that you gave, kindof answers.
Number six, you know, as adealer I believe I should
receive commission even if thebuilding sold and my radius,
whether I work the lead or not,not, if a company sells it, I
still receive commission.
So you kind of answered thatone.
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Shed Geek (26:25):
Number seven I'm good with people.
I work a lead when they comeinto the lot.
You know I'm good with peoplewhen people come to my lot.
I work that lead, I'm good.
I'm good at that.
I close pretty good and I makethe company plenty of money by
doing that and I'm happy with myeffort.
And that's all they're gettingfrom me.
They don't like it.
(26:46):
They can come get their sheds.
I don't want to do all thistech stuff.
Rami Al-Chacar (26:51):
Well, my experience with the shed sales
arena is they probably would nothave said sheds yeah, true
story.
So, I am all aboutreciprocation.
If I am pouring into something,I you know I don't always need
(27:14):
the I'm not, it's not tit fortat, but I don't need like the
exact amount in return.
I just need to see some sort ofreciprocation.
So, if I have a dealer that is,hey, they're selling and that's
all they want to focus on andthey don't want to answer
questions, they don't want totrain anybody else, they don't
want to focus on anything.
(27:34):
We actually had an employee withour company that was very
similar to that, where she wasvery, very, very good at her job
but didn't want to answer a lotof questions, and that's okay.
Um, where it becomes less okayis where, um, they're, they're
good salesperson and they needfavors and they need things and
(27:56):
it's just need, need, need andthe reason they're selling so
much because you just keepgiving them favors and you get
nothing back except for a bunchof sales, but at a much lower
rate because you get a muchdiscounts, like that.
That's not quite the same thing.
But again, from before theexpectation what is your
expectation?
As long as long as thatexpectation is being
(28:18):
reciprocated, then no harm, nofoul.
Expectation is beingreciprocated, then no harm, no
foul.
Now, me personally, I have atendency to go and this by no
means is tooting the horn but Itry to go above and beyond, no
matter what I'm doing, and I'lldig deep.
And if I have a coworker that'snew, or we have somebody that's
training and they havequestions, then I'm going to
(28:39):
give them as thorough as ananswer as I can, because I want
them to succeed.
Shed Geek (28:44):
Yeah, I like it.
I like it.
Number eight I've got this onebefore.
It may be surprising to almosteven kind of hear it, but I
didn't give anything with it.
I just straight comment thatI've heard.
I don't need a Web- site ads orany of that stuff.
We do just fine without it.
Rami Al-Chacar (29:07):
I mean, are they using carrier pigeons?
How are customers getting holdof that Carrier?
Shed Geek (29:12):
pigeons.
That would be a new one.
Rami Al-Chacar (29:15):
I mean, come on, man, it doesn't surprise me
that there are still people outthere that just are sticks in
the mud.
But I mean, my exact commentwas it's not 1996 anymore Like,
get that website.
You can build a website forless than $100.
(29:36):
And just so customers can gosomewhere other than your
Facebook page that you have onepicture of because you forgot to
update everything.
You know, it's just, you haveto do it and it is super
inexpensive to get started.
It's relatively inexpensive topay someone to do it for you.
I mean, you can get one builtlike a basic one for under a
(29:57):
thousand dollars, if you know,if you know what you're doing.
But you know, this is, this is anew era, it's a new economy.
There's a lot of aggressiveonline market uh, marketing
companies and their marketingteams and you know getting.
I've seen upwards of 40 and 50percent discounts on stuff like
(30:19):
this week.
You know, and so you know it's,it's getting super, super
aggressive.
So, you're, you're, you'reeliminating your chances of
getting someone from completelydifferent market.
If you are not investing insomething like that, if you're
(30:41):
solely relying on your drive-bytraffic, you are missing the
boat.
Shed Geek (30:47):
I like it.
Number nine I'm a manufacturer.
I've got a responsibility to mydealer network.
We try to be fair but ifthey're not willing to work with
us as we grow and new ways ofselling become available, I kind
of feel stuck.
I don't want to lose sales toother companies who are making
these of feel stuck.
I don't want to lose sales toother companies who are making
these changes, but also don'twant to upset my dealer network
(31:08):
either.
Rami Al-Chacar (31:10):
So, I think this is where I introduced the 80-20
rule.
80% of your business is goingto come from 20% of your
customers and vice versa, ordealers.
I mentioned in there that Iactually ran numbers one time.
It's not for the company I'mwith.
It was a different company and90% of their business was coming
(31:35):
from 10% of their dealers.
Shed Geek (31:39):
That's still very accurate for most places and for
this particular, and you knowfor this particular company
you're talking about.
Rami Al-Chacar (31:46):
You would lose $3 million if you cut 90% of
their, of their dealers, andthey would have well over $20
million to play with, which, bythe way, you're also cutting
probably 90% of your headaches,because, those little guys are
the ones that are, uh, trying toget you to attach stuff to
(32:06):
houses and trying to get you to,you know, build this weird
thing that you know that costsyou $2,000.
I mean just this little, tiny,little piddly stuff.
And whereas these prominentdealers that know what they're
doing and that are educated inthat care about the industry and
whatnot, you know, they're notasking any questions, need very
(32:30):
little in return and they'reselling you, you know, $2
million in a year.
You know, by themselves andthat.
So that facts over feelings onus and it again.
I can be a little bit on it andit again.
I can be a little bit on theabrasive side.
But if the fact, at the end ofthe day, if the fact is they're
not selling, you got people thatare and it's time to move.
(32:53):
It's time to move on.
Shed Geek (32:55):
Isn't that a Ben Shapiro line?
You know facts, don't careabout your feelings.
I'm a, I'm a big Shapiro, guy.
Yeah, no, he's great.
Rami Al-Chacar (33:06):
But, yeah, facts are unwavering and facts are
immovable and no matter how youfeel about these things, it's
not going to change anything.
And so, if you factually arenot doing your job, then I will
factually find someone that will, and it's, it is, it's at the
(33:27):
end of the day, it's, it's thatsimple.
Now, that doesn't mean and Ialso clarified this don't be
compassionate, because peopleare people and people make
mistakes.
People have rough years.
They have uh like, uh, um, backin 2020, I got divorced.
Well, of course, of course,like I'm going to be in this
tough moment, but you know, ifthere is a pattern of no
(33:53):
reciprocation, bad temper, nosales, just why?
Why are we?
Are we latching to these people?
It's not.
It's not necessary and honestly, there's a biblical principle
to these people.
It's not necessary and honestly, it's a biblical principle to
let these people go.
You know, we're pruning thetree here so that the rest of
the tree can grow, and it's-.
Shed Geek (34:14):
And what a great statement, what a great just
PowerPoint Like.
That's a nice littlepresentation there.
It's biblical.
You have to prune sometimes andwe're so stuck on wanting to be
agreeable and kind and nicethat we're unwilling to prune
right, yep, yeah, people.
Rami Al-Chacar (34:37):
I might get so boxy here for a second, but
Christians in particularsometimes focus so much on the
compassion side that they forgetthat there is a job to be done.
And we get caught in the weedswith all their feelings and we
want to make sure and it's just.
And, yes, people have feelings,yes, it needs to be
acknowledged, yes, but at theend of the day there's a job to
(34:58):
be done.
And it's the same thing in thebusiness side, like we have to
make money.
We're not going to make moneyif we're sitting here trying to
scratch everybody's back all thetime.
I guess, just, it's not areasonable expectation to set.
And so, when you come to termswith that and you're, and you
embrace that, then making thesehard decisions becomes a little
(35:22):
bit easier because at the end ofthe day, you're, you're,
ultimately you're bettering.
Like a lot of times, thesepeople that are unwilling to
move on things are abusing, andI mean that in a literal sense.
You're the girls in your officeand there are there.
That is one of my cardinalrules you do not abuse the girls
in the office.
(35:42):
Like, you take care of thosegirls and they're the ones that
are chewing them out all thetime, over and over about
something, and it's like it'snot acceptable, like it never is
acceptable.
And so you know you getting ridof this person is good for a
couple of things, because itmakes work life better, but
they're probably going to stayin the industry.
(36:03):
So now you're just giving thatbad employee to your competitor.
Shed Geek (36:09):
No, I like it.
I love your well thought outanswers that you even included
on there.
Matter of fact, I'm an houreight minutes in and I'm like,
hey, we're going to make thistwo 40 minute segments instead
of one hour and 10 minutesegment.
I'm I was going to save number10 and say, if you want to know,
go to the page or ask to be onit, but I'm gonna go ahead and
(36:29):
do it.
I'm going to go ahead and giveyou this one, uh, and then we'll
wrap up before too long, causeI think we could still get an
easy two part conversation outof this, and I don't want to,
and I don't want to say more,people are going to say par for
the course.
I just want you to know thatbetween me and you, brother.
There's no escape.
You know, like we.
(36:52):
Just I think we enjoy, we enjoythe conversation and that's OK.
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Shed Geek (37:49):
So, I'm gonna go ahead and do number 10.
Yeah, because I hear this a lot.
You know I I'm a 1099independent contractor.
Uh, you know, I mean I sellsheds, but I, you know, I
started my own LLC.
I got my little business going,all that good stuff.
I'm trying to grow my brandright here in town, my little
neck of the woods.
I'm spending money on marketingand other things.
(38:13):
Lot rent but I'm being told Ican't sell other products on my
lot if I want to receivebuildings on consignment from my
supplier.
But it's getting tough to makea living just selling one
product for one company, and ifI shut down they'll just move on
without me.
So I kind of feel stuck.
What do I do?
Rami Al-Chacar (38:36):
Again, layered answer.
Um, if the expectation is setfrom before and that
manufacturer is reciprocatingand but they're just picky than
that, than that, then you knowwhat you were expecting.
And if you need somethingdifferent, than move on now.
There's always the opportunity,because at the end of the day
(38:57):
it just comes down to money.
Like, am I going to make moneyor am I not From both sides
manufacturing retailer?
But if you can guarantee, hey,I can get you a million and a
half this year, pick a numberand sales.
You know, if I can hit thismark, is it OK if I bring in
(39:17):
this other line of product orwhatever, then you're back to
business.
It kind of also circles back tothe first or second point
you're talking about from before, where if you just can't bring
in another shed industry,another shed market, for example
(39:38):
, then introduce other products.
They don't own you, they justown that part of that segment of
the industry.
So sell literally anything elseand just kind of bring that in
there On the other side, ifthey're just so inflexible and
(40:02):
you're just trying to make aliving and they're not helping
you, then fine, they are just asreplaceable as a manufacturer
as you are as a dealer, and ifthey are so big to where they
don't need your business, thenyou don't need theirs either and
you can find a good localcompany or find another
(40:23):
manufacturer.
It took us 12, 13 years to getto where we had a comfortable
nest of suppliers on the steelside, suppliers on the shed
sides and suppliers on all theother stuff that you know that
(40:45):
we have to offer, and it took alot of cutting bait, took a
whole lot of cutting bait.
Again, facts over feelings, likethe fact that is, I need to
make money and if I can't makemoney, then I will find a way to
make that happen.
And you know, no harm, no foul.
You know it's just.
You know I don't.
You know I appreciate foul.
You know it's just.
You know I don't.
(41:05):
You know I appreciate what youhave done for me so far, but
it's time for you to come getyour stuff.
I have found a replacement.
Um and uh again, there arescenarios in between, but um,
but at the end of the day, youare here to make money, you are
here to make a living and youhave, if you have, to put food
on the family, on the table foryour family, you have to put a
(41:28):
roof over your head.
I mean, uh, and you need to goon vacation and you need to have
fun, you need to see the world.
I mean, it's not just theessentials, and if someone is
keeping you or manufacturerskeeping you from that, then work
around it.
Um the uh.
Now that also doesn't mean cutbait every 15 seconds and there
are others that will do that.
You know, I am not talking aboutthat.
(41:51):
Usually, when we cut bait with amanufacturer, you're talking
about years of just with a fewexceptions, a year, two years of
showing up late, cancelingorders.
You know, lying to customers,rescheduling, rescheduling, more
rescheduling, not fixing abuilding with repairs.
It's not worth it.
Shed Geek (42:11):
You know and so you know especially if you are local
and you've got a brand thatyou're building there, the local
community takes it out on you.
They don't typically take itout on the manufacturer and
that's.
And that's very hard for people, you know, to live in a
community and deal with thatsort of negative press cleaning
(42:33):
up anything that's on theirwebsite or trying to clean up
any flaws.
You know that does make ittough.
Rami Al-Chacar (42:40):
You have to live in that community yes, you do,
and we've had gold mines that,um, the wrong person got, uh was
working there and just it put abad taste in customer mouths
and we had to rebuild thereputation.
Uh, you know, it's just, andthat's, that's for manufacturers
(43:03):
, that's for the retailers, Imean, that's anything.
So, yeah, the people talk andone bad oh, don't shop, shop
there at one party, that's ifthere's 10 people at that party,
that's 10 people that know notto shop there.
You know it's just, you can't.
It's almost insurmountable atthat point.
(43:24):
Not quite, but it feels like it.
So, building a nest ofmanufacturers and a sales team
that again reciprocates yourefforts and honors your customer
and honors you and honors you,build like it is worth cutting
(43:51):
bait when you can to grow towhere now you can go to sleep at
night.
Now, you don't have to worryabout you know all.
is this manufacturer going toshow up after?
You know that it rained allthis time?
You know we have.
I know without a shadow of adoubt that when I sell a
building, that building is goingto be there when, like, I don't
have to think about it and itused to be not the case.
And so having a relationshipwith a company that that
(44:12):
understands that it's not justabout themselves and that
understands that I'm a piece ofthis equation, for them to be
sustainable, go it goes a very,very long way.
Shed Geek (44:24):
I love it.
I love it, man.
We got to.
We got to get you back on here.
Yeah, I love your thoughts.
I love that you took the timeto answer, you know, some of the
questions or commented on someof the thoughts that were out
there, cause I think thatcommunication keeps us grounded,
it keeps us connected and it'svery important.
(44:44):
You know, sometimes you feellike you're on an island by
yourself.
Maybe you're selling today andyou don't have anybody to bounce
these ideas and thoughts off of, and you know these social
media outlets become an optionthe podcast, you know I always
encourage people to listen, notfor my sake, but because you
might learn something.
You know, obviously we selladvertising on there to people
(45:05):
and we hope that, you know.
You know listeners will go andpurchase a product or purchase a
you know a service that that ison there.
That's why those people commitmoney to be on here and allow us
to do these things.
But I can't say enough, youknow about you know just the
short time I've known you andyour thoughts on different
(45:28):
things.
I really value your opinion andI look forward now to seeing
your comments and even responsesand things on the Shed.
Sales Professionals page andother, absolutely.
I really love that you thinkthings through and give a nice
comprehensive answer toeverything.
Think things through and give anice comprehensive answer to
(45:48):
everything.
Hello shed sellers, let's takea moment to discuss the shed
customer and meeting theirexpectations.
I remember growing up in theneighborhood where a certain
percentage of the houses hadwell-manicured lawns and
well-manicured homes.
These were the type ofindividuals who felt it was
important to purchase awell-constructed home or vehicle
, or maybe equipment to helpmaintain the quality of the item
.
As shed manufacturers, we seekto provide a well-built, quality
(46:10):
shed.
We want the customer to feelsatisfied that their hard-earned
money has been well spent on aproduct that will last.
At LuxGuard, we believe addinghigh-quality rubber flooring to
your line of sheds makes senseto the customer and adds value
the customer can appreciate.
With each year, sheds arebecoming more complex.
The customizations we areseeing are virtually endless.
(46:31):
LuxGuard not only gives acomplimentary aesthetic
appearance for their shed, butalso protects the floor from
spills and keeps cleanup simple.
Offer your customer thecustomer service they seek with
LuxGuard.
At LuxGuard, we are committed todelivering exceptional customer
service and innovative productsto help our customers achieve
their goals.
We strive to meet the evolvingneeds of the customers.
(46:54):
To speak with one of ourready-to-serve customer product
specialists, simply call336-468-4311.
To see our product and view aninstallation video, just visit
our website at luxguard.
com.
LuxGuard the floor that lasts alifetime
Before we go.
(47:15):
Anything that you have, anyquestions that you have
podcasting, shed related, justanything that I might be able to
answer in full transparency.
I always give everybody theoption to do that and if there's
just a question you have, I'mhappy to answer it if I can.
If not, yeah, I'll do my best.
Rami Al-Chacar (47:36):
So, a hurdle for me in all of my years is the
marketing piece.
I am not a marketer, so Ireally have to rely on a very
rugged concept of what marketinglooks like for my store, what
(47:57):
has worked for you as far asmarketing goes and what is your
expectation for a successfulmarketing campaign yeah, well,
you know, I tell people there'sa lot of reasons that I, I go
into or done certain things inthe industry is because I really
just try to be a good listener.
Shed Geek (48:17):
And then, uh, I, I learn.
You know, I learn from themistakes of others.
I don't just learn from themistakes of myself, I learn from
the mistakes of others and thenI try to from the mistakes of
myself.
I learned from the mistakes ofothers and then I try to, I try
to listen.
You know, when you teach yourchildren something, you usually
don't do this and, trust me,don't do it, cause I've been
down that road right.
That's why you tell them but.
But some are stubborn, like Iwas, and I had to figure it out
(48:38):
myself the hard way.
Rami Al-Chacar (48:39):
Right.
Shed Geek (48:40):
I had to go and learn the hard way that, like, even
though they were trying to helpme, I thought I knew better.
So, what I've learned is youknow, we have an agency that
serves the industry.
We serve, you know,approximately 50 clients in the
industry, and what I've learnedis to get myself.
I've literally done what otherpeople tell me is a key to
(49:04):
success, which is to putyourself in a room full of smart
people.
Yeah, it's really not thatcomplicated if we can take our
ego out of it right.
I just put myself in a roomfull of people a lot smarter
than me and voila, next thing,you know, they make me look
better than what I am, becauseI'm, I'm the, I'm the fifth
wheel, uh, uh, of five peopleand all of a sudden I become,
(49:27):
you know, uh, build a massiveamount of knowledge in this
thing myself by just surroundingmyself with these people.
So, I give a lot of credit to,to my team, um, uh, for sure.
But what's been really unique,and I'm sharing this with this
uh on this uh sales journeytomorrow that we're talking with
(49:48):
this company in Indiana is theretail market's changed?
It certainly changed fromwhenever we were growing up, and
it doesn't matter how you feelabout that market changing.
What matters is how you respondto it, and people are going to
(50:08):
be okay with your response.
If your response is like no,not doing it, not going to get
into it, I do just fine withoutit, I can promise you people who
are finding success in it arenot going to argue with you
because they don't really wantyou competing with them in it
anyway.
So they're okay with yourposition on that right.
I just think that the industryis definitely getting big enough
(50:32):
.
I don't know if it's saturatedby any means.
I believe there's a long way togo, but I just believe that the
retail market's changing and somuch of that is a technological
change and I've never been,surprisingly, like a big tech
guru.
I've never a lot of people ohyou got a podcast.
You're doing marketing.
(50:52):
You're doing all this.
Of course, you're a tech personand I'm like, well, I can, I
can talk the talk pretty good,but there's, there's people
around me who help walk the walkbetter than I do and I give
them I give them a lot of praise, a lot of credit for their
efforts and their expertise andyears of service and knowledge
that they've been grinding andfiguring these things out.
But the agency model has, Ifeel like has been really good
(51:15):
for us.
What we've been pushing is ouragency model.
You can hire a person, you canbring them in, you can pay 80
grand a year and, and guess what?
What you're probably going tofind someone who's very talented
if you hire a marketingpersonality.
So, I'm not trying to take anymarketing jobs away.
Sometimes you need a liaison,just to be clear, uh, between
(51:35):
the two.
I'm just saying you know anagency brings a different
perspective to it.
You know like we cansimultaneously work on building
your you know your digitalassets out, your website and,
and, and, while simultaneouslytalking to you about you know,
an ad budget and what kind of adcopy you want out there, and,
(51:57):
and that's hard for one personto do right.
When we have 10 people workingtowards your, your product and
your company, it's just a lotdifferent.
So I have found that to be themost successful.
The thing that I foundchallenging has been your
average and I hope I don't soundlike I'm insulting when I say
(52:19):
this, but like your averagedealer, your average dealer who
is trying to grow their ownbrand and then they sell the
brand of another manufacturer.
You know that's very difficult,again, based on even a million
dollars in sales, because tooperate a really good marketing
(52:42):
program, it's there's a cost toit, but the cost is an
investment, and the one thing wetell people is like, if you
invest in marketing, it shouldbe making you money, not costing
you money.
It's not a line item budget,right?
If you were going to go intoshed hauling, what's the first
thing you need to buy?
Probably a trailer, maybe atruck.
You know if you're going tosell sheds, you probably need to
(53:04):
buy some, two by fours, youknow so.
So, you're doing that.
Why?
Because it costs you money andit's always going to cost you
money.
No, you're doing it because itmakes you money.
Yeah, and that's the waymarketing should be thought of.
And if you're not, if you'renot being serviced in a way that
marketing is making you money,then I think you and your
(53:24):
marketing company need to have aconversation.
I know that if we're not makingpeople money, we will probably
be quicker to pull away thanthey will because we'll realize,
hey, we can't help you.
There's just nothing we can do.
And why can't we help you?
It might be because we'relimited by your budget.
It might be that we are limitedby your vision.
(53:45):
It might be that we are limitedby your vision.
It might be that you know, wejust can't serve you as well as
others can, based off yourunique business perspective.
But that's where customeracquisition comes in.
Right, you talked about thedifference in a shed company and
a metal company.
The customer acquisition timeis longer for a metal uh
(54:09):
customer than it is a shedcustomer.
Well, we've, we've approachedthat in marketing uh, we have
become almost consultants, ifyou will.
We, we actually sit down withpeople and say, in your broken
language, tell me what marketingis to you, and then we'll,
we'll have some thoughts on that.
Where we can, you know,converse back and forth to say,
(54:30):
well, in this situation, youknow, so we're educators.
You know we, we spend the timeto educate so that you feel
comfortable knowing what you're,what you're buying, and I think
that's super important Because,as you said, not everybody's a
marketer.
Rami Al-Chacar (54:46):
I would imagine if you, I am definitely not.
Shed Geek (54:51):
I tell shed builders all the time you know, if you
want to see, if you want to seeme fail, let's get out there and
compare your skills as amanufacturer versus mine.
I can probably build you a shedor something that looks similar
because I can probably see 90%of it looking the same or
(55:13):
similar to a shed that you havebuilt but you're going to come
in and pick it completely apartand say, oh, my goodness, this
is a terrible build.
This guy obviously doesn't knowwhat he's doing.
And that's what you know.
An agency will find, you know,they will say, hey, you're doing
a good job.
It's not that you're doingterrible, but there's some,
(55:35):
there's some obvious things here, like, right, you forgot this,
you know.
It's like, oh, I didn't evenknow that.
And it's like, well, how couldyou know that?
Right, so you know, that'sreally what you're attempting to
do.
You're attempting to comealongside and help people, but
uh, yeah, I don't know if Ianswered your question or not,
but me and you long-winded, sowe're talking about
(55:58):
reciprocation.
Rami Al-Chacar (55:58):
It's only fair.
I you know I was a littlelong-winded myself but you did.
Shed Geek (56:03):
You did great.
You did great.
Anything else that you want toshare with the industry?
Any shout outs or just anythingin general for those who are
listening today, Any finalthoughts.
Rami Al-Chacar (56:14):
Well, I mean, I'll say hello to all the
hometown shed peaks who will belistening to this, and then,
obviously, my wife is going tolisten to it as well.
So, hello, Denise, uh.
And then, obviously, my wife isgoing to listen to it as well.
So, hello, Denise, um.
And then, um, yeah, the onlything I was going to, I was
thinking about that.
I meant to mention from beforeum, and we piece that however
(56:36):
you need to, but the um you wereasking earlier about advice for
the new guys.
Um, and I've been circling thisin my head as you were kind of
explaining some of that Um,always take a step back and uh,
(56:58):
uh, take a step back and look atthe whole thing, at the whole
picture.
I have found that, like, myprice sheets every couple of
months will be just a little bitdifferent from a time before.
I took a step back and say, oh,I could have done this just a
little bit differently.
But yeah, that would.
That would be just that, liketaking a step back and just
reassessing my situation andlooking at it, making sure I'm
(57:21):
looking at it from a customer'sperspective, making sure I'm
looking at it from a customer'sperspective making.
Look at that, making sure I'mlooking at it from a?
Uh, well, honestly, from acustomer's perspective instead
of a retailer perspective or,even worse, from a
manufacturer's perspective.
Uh, and where I really kind ofdawned it was a daunting moment
for me is we had a brochure thata manufacturer made and it was
(57:41):
just a bunch of pictures intheir brochure of their plant.
Well, no one cares about that.
They want to know what theirshed's going to look like, and
so that was kind of the journeyfor me, kind of getting to this
point.
Uh, but really most recently inthe last couple, uh, I would
say in the last two years,really taking a step back and
it's like how am I presenting myinformation to these guys, to
(58:02):
these customers, in such a waythat they are captivated by what
I have to say?
And I'm telling you, it makes aworld of difference.
So anyways, I know that I waskind of out of order there, but
I just know I have been meaningto interject that somewhere.
Shed Geek (58:22):
So absolutely great advice, and I mean it whenever I
say we should to interject thatsomewhere.
So absolutely great advice, andI mean it whenever I say we
should have you back on.
I certainly appreciate you, youknow, being willing to come on
and share some thoughts.
I encourage everybody to go on.
And if you're involved in theshed industry, go check out the
Shed Sales Professionals page.
It's a private page.
Hey, while you're at it, goover, check out Shed Geek.
(58:43):
Give us a like you know, acomment.
Don't be afraid.
You know we're invested in theindustry.
So, again, if you're aprofessional, I believe that you
should search down everymagazine, publication, podcast,
book, post-it note, whatever youwant to, whatever you want to
look for to learn more aboutyour industry and to be better
(59:04):
and to learn how to servecustomers better, be better at
what you do.
Hey, I know every podcast isn'tfor everybody.
I always acknowledge that, Evenmy favorite podcasters, I don't
listen to every episode, but ifyou get some worth and some
value, give us a shout, give usa holler, be willing to sit down
with us.
Go check out our newsletter.
If you're not signed up for thenewsletter, just go to info at
(59:26):
shedgeek.
com.
Tell me who you are, Give meyour name, Give me your company,
Give me your email and we willbe sure to add you to it.
We have an email newsletter thatgoes out every Monday,
Wednesday and Friday thatdiscusses who's going to be on
the show.
It's full of advertisers andlinks that you can click on to
go, type in, search out theirstuff, even fill out a lead form
(59:48):
If you want to know more abouttheir products or service.
Give them a shout, because weappreciate those who are
supporters of the podcast overhere.
We want to support them.
That's just the way we operate.
I guess we're true capitalistsmaybe Rami in that.
In that mindset, we help thosewho help us.
We even help those who don'thelp us sometimes.
Rami Al-Chacar (01:00:08):
Exactly.
Shed Geek (01:00:09):
You know, Rami, I certainly appreciate it.
It's been a blast and we'llhave to get you back on.
I think that'll be great.
Rami Al-Chacar (01:00:15):
Yeah, please do.
Happy to help.
I'm happy to just spend sometime with you guys and kind of
get to know you, just like theother way around.
So I appreciate it Excellent,thank you.
Shed Geek (01:00:24):
Yeah.
Thank you for listening to part two of a
two-part series here at the ShedGeek podcast.
If you missed part one, just goback to last week and listen
for more engaging conversationhere at the Shed Geek podcast.
But I'm going to run through acouple of these real quick and
just give your you know you'vegot your answers on there for
(00:29):
anybody who wants to go back butjust a couple of thoughts, what
you might see if you were tojoin, like the Shed Sales
Professionals page.
You know some of the thingsthat we might talk about on
there.
But this is I did like thislittle list of 10 and all.
Number one this was thequestion I asked and it's kind
of in regard to how I'm wantingto do a column and my next
column for shed business journalto kind of have these
(00:52):
conversations with the peoplewho are in it to talk about that
.
But I put in here number onenot all dealers are created
equal.
Some sell as a primary means ofincome, some sell because they
have five acres and they likethe idea proposed to them by a
sales manager to make a littleextra cash.
What's your thoughts on that?
Rami, does that, given yourexperience, I'll be quiet.
Rami Al-Chacar (01:15):
Yeah well, no, no no need to be quiet.
This is your game.
No, so either venue is good,either scenario is good.
Uh, you just have to know whatthe expectation is on both sides
.
Um, so, if you have somebodythat's retired and just looking
(01:38):
to make a little bit of sideincome, there's your expectation
.
If you've got somebody who isthis is my bread and butter and
I like I'm sinking my teeth intothis thing and I'm like, okay,
here's your expectation, here isyour uh, maybe extra one or two
demos, I mean, it's just, itdepends on the scenario.
Both are really good um,opportunities, but it's just.
(02:06):
You know, don't set, you don'tgo in expecting somebody who's
kind of retired and not reallyyou know into it all the way to,
to blow your sock, the socksoff of anything.
Now, it doesn't mean that youwon't have lightning in a bottle
and just you know, be mindblown.
But it is people in like, onthe older side of the of this
(02:28):
industry, uh, who are on theolder, older side in this
industry.
There's a lot of technology nowand there's some hurdles and
whatnot.
So, it kind of adds, uh, alayer of complexity, because now
you're as the manufacturer, forexample, are having to train
your retailer how to use acomputer, you know.
It's just you know, and so itjust.
(02:50):
It depends on what yourexpectation is.
But as long as you set yourexpectations and lay it out and
they can accept or not accept,and same with the other side,
hey, this is, you know, you'reambitious, you're hungry, you're
eager, you're wanting to makethese sales.
This is what I need from you toget this extra little bit of
(03:11):
commission, or get this extralittle bit, this special
discount, like the company thatwe, some of the companies we
work with, occasionally they'llhave specific discounts that are
catered directly to us, um, andyou know, so you kind of push
along that that way a little bit.
I've even um discussed somehaving like an express lane,
(03:33):
like if you have a million-dollar dealer and you have a
like thousand- dollar dealer, uh, let them have that two to four
week turnaround time instead ofthis guy that's selling a
onesie, twosie and it's littletops and little eight by tens or
whatever.
Like, maybe give them the fourto six weeks.
You know, and so it just, itdepends on um, your approach and
(03:56):
the expectation.
But as long as it's made clearand as long as it's being
reciprocated, then then you'recruising.
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Shed Geek (05:47):
Perfect, I appreciate your answer.
Let's see Number two.
It's tough for a consignmentdealer who receives 10%
commission to invest in aneffective marketing plan, even
if they're selling a million ayear.
And I'll kind of follow up withsome thoughts there and then
let you run with it.
You know, at 10%, a million ayear, you've got $100,000 in
(06:08):
gross revenue.
Don't know what you want toconsider.
A good, healthy income Dependson, maybe, your financial
situation If you're retired, asyou said, if you've got a family
or whatever.
But there's quite a bit ofexpenses that come out.
If you're having to cover yourown lot rent, maybe you buy the
building come out.
If you're having to cover yourown lot rent, maybe you buy the
building there.
Maybe you're buying a property.
But you know, uh, this issomething that we run against in
(06:30):
in marketing.
Uh, is people struggle.
People struggle even at amillion dollars to be able to
afford a comprehensive plan tobe beneficial is that, is that
their responsibility?
The manufacturers, themanufacturers already putting
all this, as you said, all ofthese sheds out here 50 times 50
, and they've got a ton of moneyinto them.
(06:51):
So, it just, you know, theconversation stays in the air
and I'm curious your thoughts onand others thoughts on that.
Rami Al-Chacar (07:00):
Yeah.
So, for anything, 10% is kindof small now in comparison to
what is out there.
I mean, especially if you sella million dollars a year, like
you said, your take home foryour business is $100,000.
Taxes are coming out of that.
Obviously, rent is coming outof that, I mean.
(07:21):
So go ahead and probably take$20,000, at least probably for
the year, out off the top again.
So, you're at 80, not, and thenyou have your taxes.
So, you're probably in the 70or 60 range now and you haven't
paid light bill, you haven'tpaid water bill, you haven't
paid internet.
So that 10% needs to adjust.
(07:43):
So, what I would recommend is acouple of things.
One is always try to negotiateto get a higher commission tier.
Now, sometimes the doors closeon that, and if it is, then
either deal with it and findanother venue, which we'll
address in a second, or maybethey'll say yes, and if you can
(08:04):
go even from 10% to 12%, for youthat's a 20% raise, just that
2%, and so that goes a long way.
So, if you can get them to 15%,well, now we're doing some
business.
So now, obviously I'm justmaking up some percentages here.
(08:26):
I don't, you know, everybodyhas different scenarios, um, but
uh, 10% is kind of like anentry level.
Let's see how this goes.
Kind of percentage, I, I, Iwould be very hesitant to stay
on that very long, unless you'rejust kind of doing a onesie,
twosie kind of thing.
Uh, now, on the other side ofthings, this is going back to
(08:49):
again the original conversation,which is that's also why you
have supplemental products.
You don't want just sheds, youneed uh in the business.
Well, in the finance world theycall it diversifying your
portfolio to where the shedeconomy might tank but carport
economy doesn't, for example,and so you still have something
(09:11):
to pay all your bills and to payyour employees, to pay yourself
.
And then you add anotherproduct.
So, I've seen there's a milliondifferent things four wheelers,
lawnmowers, you know whatever.
Golf carts, whatever you know.
And you don't want that thirdthing to really cannibalize
(09:32):
anything else.
But you know you're settingyourself up to where, okay, I
get $100,000 for sheds, I getanother 50 or 60 or 100,000,
some dollars in commissions fromcarports, and then I have, I
don't know, 20,000 or 30,000extra, uh, 20,000 extra dollars
from commissions on thissupplemental something.
Uh, and now you're lessstressed about you know where
(09:57):
you're going to.
Uh, you know, get your nextsale from cause you're, you're.
You're not just solidifying your, you know the business side of
things, but you're also settingyourself up to where, uh, your
scope is larger.
So now more people areattracted to your business for a
variety of things.
And then something I've runinto really in there in the
(10:20):
recent hit, in my recent history, is you'll have a customer come
in and now they're not justbuying one thing.
We have this mentality wheresomebody's coming in and buying
a shed, and well, they justspent literally all their money
and now they're I'll see you ineither three months to go pick
up your shed for repo, or we'llsee you in five years or
(10:42):
whatever the term is, so you canget another thing.
But in reality, there arecustomers who they've been
saving, or they just make goodmoney, or they get approved for
$20,000.
And the first thing they'relooking at is a $10,000 shed.
Now you're getting a $5,000carport with the same color
scheme that goes in theirbackyard, and so now you made
(11:04):
$15,000 in sales instead of 10.
So, it's 50% increase.
Shed Geek (11:09):
Service after the sale man Service after the sale
brings so many people.
It's so important and I justdon't even know if we really.
There's probably some that havefocused on it.
No great answer.
Appreciate the thoughts there.
Number three shed companiesalready invest.
We talked about this right.
They already invest thousandsof dollars into a shed lot.
(11:32):
How can they possibly beresponsible for also marketing
the products?
That's the lot owner's job.
Again, not saying I agree withthese things, I'm just stating
things I've heard said before.
Rami Al-Chacar (11:44):
What's your thoughts on this?
So any relationship needs to besymbiotic, meaning we need to
be reliant upon each other.
Now again, we're talkingearlier about setting the
expectation.
If the expectation is set inthe initial stages, where, no,
this is, we've given you at thisprice, you sell it for this
price, this other price, andthen you handle your own
(12:05):
marketing Okay, sure, but ifit's something where, okay, we
just got thrown this majoreconomic curveball, let's take
this to the drawing board alittle bit.
And really frustrates me is ithas taken me all 14 years just
(12:28):
about to get quality photos frommanufacturers on stuff so I can
use for, like, carport salesand things like that.
It's out there, but it's alwayssomething like the installer
took it and it's at a jaggedangle or whatever, and it's just
, you know it's getting it'sfree, you know, just have a
(12:50):
picture.
Once the project's done andeverything's cleaned up, take a
picture or two.
That way we're not having totry travel all around the East
coast to every customer.
So, getting that as a freething that manufacturers can
provide and doesn't cost them adime.
It's just they're not doingthat, or at least a lot of them
are not.
Um, so it would be nice to kindof have something like that,
(13:12):
but especially when you'rethrown from circling back where
we're talking about a second agouh, this big economic curveball
where no one knows what toexpect.
Covid reassembled our culturalDNA and also our economic DNA,
so everyone's still trying torebound from all of that.
(13:35):
There is no reason why a dealershouldn't be unwilling to put
forth any effort towards theirmarketing, but there should also
be zero reasons why amanufacturer cannot reciprocate
their efforts, especially intoday's climate.
Now again, if this is how youwant to do it, then fine, but
(13:59):
I'm here to make money.
At the end of the day, as longas you're making money, as long
as I'm making money, that's whatmatters.
And so, um, uh, so the?
I guess my short answer to thatwould be never, uh, never, be
(14:19):
content with where you are.
And it's like you know, if wecan, if we can do this, then
let's do it, and if we can makesome money, I don't care how we
do it, as long as it's legal, atleast then do it.
Shed Geek (14:30):
I've been a big fan of the co-op programs that I've
seen, sometimes throughout theindustry.
That really goes a long way,especially for a dealer coming
in to kind of feel like theyhave the support from the
company who's willing to engageor able to engage in something
like that.
It's a struggle for thebusiness owner, the manufacturer
and the dealer a lot of timesto make it.
(14:51):
We're all trying to make itright.
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Shed Geek (16:41):
Many of them don't want to, and even if the lead is
good, they think it's a badcustomer if they don't pick up
the phone when they're ready tocall them and buy right away.
Rami Al-Chacar (16:56):
If you have a salesperson that will not call a
customer, you do not have asalesperson.
Big statement Powerfulstatement it's just you part of
sales.
Well, I said it in one of thequestions like sales is more
than just sales.
You're an educator and you'reguiding your customer to a
(17:19):
solution that either they'venever thought of before or have
been dreaming about, and you'remaking it a reality.
So, you're leading them here.
So, there needs to be aparadigm shift with that.
Now I am not talking about coldcalling.
I have a moral line that Iwon't cross and one of those is,
(17:41):
well, a set of moral lines.
I have a lot.
I have a lot of moral lines butI'm not going to cross with.
I'm not going to call, coldcall people.
They didn't give me theirinformation, they didn't want to
, and I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about when theyexpress interest.
They voluntarily gave usinformation about a product.
(18:02):
You have zero reason not tocall them.
You have zero reason not to tryto help them get what they are
begging someone to give them.
So, I've always been frustratedwith the sales mindset of that.
I don't want to say frustrated,but it's always almost
(18:25):
discouraging when a salesperson,who's good, is too timid to
move.
There's got to be actioninvolved and there's got to be
that momentum and the customerwill gravitate towards that as
well.
Now, obviously, you don't abuseit Like.
I used to work for a in my yeargap that I told you about, I
(18:47):
took a little bit of a break.
I went and sold used cars.
I did not make it a year, Imade it 11 months, and they
would barrage my customers withphone calls.
I mean just an absolute barrage.
And then on top of that, theywould want me to call them as
well.
So, one day I took a step backand I went.
(19:07):
They had a little trackers foreverything and I took the number
of phone calls it took for meto close a customer versus the
ones that never answered at all,and my average phone call per
customer before they purchasedin this scenario was two, and
they were wanting me to callthem 40.
You know, it's just like.
(19:28):
So we're not talking aboutabusing your customers, we're
talking about engaging them anddrawing them in and then giving
them something that they alreadyneed.
Shed Geek (19:38):
And there's a big difference.
There was a time I was going tosell cars Rami need.
And there's a big difference.
There was a time I was going tosell cars Rami and I was sort
of sharing my mentality with theperson who would be doing the
hiring.
I don't know what his title was, but I kind of told him about
how I'm on this new journey andI had found God and was moving
(20:00):
forward in my life and my faithand trying to operate out of
that and find maybe my purposein life.
And I didn't think maybeselling cars was it, but I
needed a place to land, earnmoney, get solid, and so I was
just kind of sharing a littlebit of my faith story and things
like that.
And the guy just point blank,point blank told me he said you
(20:20):
don't want to work here becauseit's going to be a conflict with
your morals.
I can tell yeah.
Rami Al-Chacar (20:26):
It was just like we do what we can to get the
sale.
Shed Geek (20:31):
Well, that's what he offered me the job.
He said you can work here ifyou want.
I just don't think you're goingto like it, and I was like I
think you're right.
I think, if you're that honestwith me, he's like we do
whatever it takes to get thesale, it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter.
Your morals are going to get inthe way of that.
I can tell I was just like wow.
Rami Al-Chacar (20:48):
People will disagree with this and I'm fine
with that.
I am very confident in this.
I will lose a sale.
Before I lie to a customerAgain, I will say this I like my
sleep at night.
I don't need much, but thelittle that I do sleep, I like
it.
I don't like stressing I don'tlike being distracted, so I will
(21:11):
not lie to the customer and Iwill lose the sale and have lost
sales before.
I have to mislead them.
And I think when a customer cansense that they they're
grabbing, they gravitate towardthat.
And there's some that won't andsome that don't sense it, and
that's okay, it's, for me it'sworth it and I, I hold, I hold
(21:32):
to that.
Shed Geek (21:34):
Let's take a look at the concern or the ownership
side a little bit here now onquestion number five, or
statement number five.
I'm the owner of thesebuildings, I produce them, I put
them out there on these lotsand if the dealer doesn't work
the lead then we will do itin-house ourselves.
They can either get with theprogram or they can move on.
(21:55):
What's your thoughts on that,Rami?
Rami Al-Chacar (21:58):
uh 100 like if, if I'm, if well, it goes back to
earlier If I'm a manufacturerproviding leads to someone and
they're like I'm putting fortheffort, I'm doing my part and
actually doing you a favor andyou're not wanting absolutely, I
would 100% support selling thatlead.
(22:20):
They're going to buy fromsomewhere and it's gonna be from
my company.
Whether you do it for mycompany or we do it for my
company is up to the salesperson.
But, um, um, yeah, if, if, if,as a manufacturer, or even as a
retail like a, like a corporateoffice for retailer if you're
(22:42):
disseminating these leads toyour sales team and they're not
doing their job, then someone isgoing to get this sale.
Yeah, I have no issues withthat at all.
Shed Geek (22:53):
Is there an obligation for the manufacturer
to share some or all of thatcommission to that dealer who
has a protected radius?
Or is that lead and the fullcommission?
Does that belong to the company?
Now, If the company has alreadyattempted to get the dealer to
(23:16):
work the lead, they've boughtthe lead, they've spent the
money to get it.
Here you go, what do they get?
Rami Al-Chacar (23:22):
Zero, zero obligation.
Now, on the flip side of thatcoin is if this is a good sales
person or sales team and justI've even seen this like.
I have a manufacturer that doesthis for us If they sell
something like they had acustomer that just randomly
(23:43):
called their manufacturingfacility and made that sale if
they, in turn, turn around andfind out that we had initiated
contact with this customer or inany form or fashion within
reason, obviously, then they'llissue us full commission.
So that's the other side ofthings.
But if, if you have, uh, thealternative would be just firing
(24:09):
them.
Honestly, even they're, this ispart of their core job.
So, if they're not doing it,then there's a problem and there
needs to be a conversation, theall.
But as an alternative andreally a courteous alternative
is, instead of and it's a littlebit abrasive but instead of
like terminating their, theiremployment, you're just keeping
(24:30):
the sale.
You know, I think it's a fairtrade.
Now, it's not always black andwhite like that and I fully
understand, but at the end ofthe day, you have a job.
If you're not doing it, thensomeone else needs to
So that's my um abrasive butaccurate uh um approach to that
Shed Geek (24:49):
it's kind of uh, it's kind of a similar, like the
answer that that you gave, kindof answers.
Number six, you know, as adealer I believe I should
receive commission even if thebuilding sold and my radius,
whether I work the lead or not,not, if a company sells it, I
still receive commission.
So you kind of answered thatone.
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identifying your sheds.
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Grow your business Okay.
Shed Geek (26:25):
Number seven I'm good with people.
I work a lead when they comeinto the lot.
You know I'm good with peoplewhen people come to my lot.
I work that lead, I'm good.
I'm good at that.
I close pretty good and I makethe company plenty of money by
doing that and I'm happy with myeffort.
And that's all they're gettingfrom me.
They don't like it.
(26:46):
They can come get their sheds.
I don't want to do all thistech stuff.
Rami Al-Chacar (26:51):
Well, my experience with the shed sales
arena is they probably would nothave said sheds yeah, true
story.
So, I am all aboutreciprocation.
If I am pouring into something,I you know I don't always need
(27:14):
the I'm not, it's not tit fortat, but I don't need like the
exact amount in return.
I just need to see some sort ofreciprocation.
So, if I have a dealer that is,hey, they're selling and that's
all they want to focus on andthey don't want to answer
questions, they don't want totrain anybody else, they don't
want to focus on anything.
(27:34):
We actually had an employee withour company that was very
similar to that, where she wasvery, very, very good at her job
but didn't want to answer a lotof questions, and that's okay.
Um, where it becomes less okayis where, um, they're, they're
good salesperson and they needfavors and they need things and
(27:56):
it's just need, need, need andthe reason they're selling so
much because you just keepgiving them favors and you get
nothing back except for a bunchof sales, but at a much lower
rate because you get a muchdiscounts, like that.
That's not quite the same thing.
But again, from before theexpectation what is your
expectation?
As long as long as thatexpectation is being
(28:18):
reciprocated, then no harm, nofoul.
Expectation is beingreciprocated, then no harm, no
foul.
Now, me personally, I have atendency to go and this by no
means is tooting the horn but Itry to go above and beyond, no
matter what I'm doing, and I'lldig deep.
And if I have a coworker that'snew, or we have somebody that's
training and they havequestions, then I'm going to
(28:39):
give them as thorough as ananswer as I can, because I want
them to succeed.
Shed Geek (28:44):
Yeah, I like it.
I like it.
Number eight I've got this onebefore.
It may be surprising to almosteven kind of hear it, but I
didn't give anything with it.
I just straight comment thatI've heard.
I don't need a Web- site ads orany of that stuff.
We do just fine without it.
Rami Al-Chacar (29:07):
I mean, are they using carrier pigeons?
How are customers getting holdof that Carrier?
Shed Geek (29:12):
pigeons.
That would be a new one.
Rami Al-Chacar (29:15):
I mean, come on, man, it doesn't surprise me
that there are still people outthere that just are sticks in
the mud.
But I mean, my exact commentwas it's not 1996 anymore Like,
get that website.
You can build a website forless than $100.
(29:36):
And just so customers can gosomewhere other than your
Facebook page that you have onepicture of because you forgot to
update everything.
You know, it's just, you haveto do it and it is super
inexpensive to get started.
It's relatively inexpensive topay someone to do it for you.
I mean, you can get one builtlike a basic one for under a
(29:57):
thousand dollars, if you know,if you know what you're doing.
But you know, this is, this is anew era, it's a new economy.
There's a lot of aggressiveonline market uh, marketing
companies and their marketingteams and you know getting.
I've seen upwards of 40 and 50percent discounts on stuff like
(30:19):
this week.
You know, and so you know it's,it's getting super, super
aggressive.
So, you're, you're, you'reeliminating your chances of
getting someone from completelydifferent market.
If you are not investing insomething like that, if you're
(30:41):
solely relying on your drive-bytraffic, you are missing the
boat.
Shed Geek (30:47):
I like it.
Number nine I'm a manufacturer.
I've got a responsibility to mydealer network.
We try to be fair but ifthey're not willing to work with
us as we grow and new ways ofselling become available, I kind
of feel stuck.
I don't want to lose sales toother companies who are making
these of feel stuck.
I don't want to lose sales toother companies who are making
these changes, but also don'twant to upset my dealer network
(31:08):
either.
Rami Al-Chacar (31:10):
So, I think this is where I introduced the 80-20
rule.
80% of your business is goingto come from 20% of your
customers and vice versa, ordealers.
I mentioned in there that Iactually ran numbers one time.
It's not for the company I'mwith.
It was a different company and90% of their business was coming
(31:35):
from 10% of their dealers.
Shed Geek (31:39):
That's still very accurate for most places and for
this particular, and you knowfor this particular company
you're talking about.
Rami Al-Chacar (31:46):
You would lose $3 million if you cut 90% of
their, of their dealers, andthey would have well over $20
million to play with, which, bythe way, you're also cutting
probably 90% of your headaches,because, those little guys are
the ones that are, uh, trying toget you to attach stuff to
(32:06):
houses and trying to get you to,you know, build this weird
thing that you know that costsyou $2,000.
I mean just this little, tiny,little piddly stuff.
And whereas these prominentdealers that know what they're
doing and that are educated inthat care about the industry and
whatnot, you know, they're notasking any questions, need very
(32:30):
little in return and they'reselling you, you know, $2
million in a year.
You know, by themselves andthat.
So that facts over feelings onus and it again.
I can be a little bit on it andit again.
I can be a little bit on theabrasive side.
But if the fact, at the end ofthe day, if the fact is they're
not selling, you got people thatare and it's time to move.
(32:53):
It's time to move on.
Shed Geek (32:55):
Isn't that a Ben Shapiro line?
You know facts, don't careabout your feelings.
I'm a, I'm a big Shapiro, guy.
Yeah, no, he's great.
Rami Al-Chacar (33:06):
But, yeah, facts are unwavering and facts are
immovable and no matter how youfeel about these things, it's
not going to change anything.
And so, if you factually arenot doing your job, then I will
factually find someone that will, and it's, it is, it's at the
(33:27):
end of the day, it's, it's thatsimple.
Now, that doesn't mean and Ialso clarified this don't be
compassionate, because peopleare people and people make
mistakes.
People have rough years.
They have uh like, uh, um, backin 2020, I got divorced.
Well, of course, of course,like I'm going to be in this
tough moment, but you know, ifthere is a pattern of no
(33:53):
reciprocation, bad temper, nosales, just why?
Why are we?
Are we latching to these people?
It's not.
It's not necessary and honestly, there's a biblical principle
to these people.
It's not necessary and honestly, it's a biblical principle to
let these people go.
You know, we're pruning thetree here so that the rest of
the tree can grow, and it's-.
Shed Geek (34:14):
And what a great statement, what a great just
PowerPoint Like.
That's a nice littlepresentation there.
It's biblical.
You have to prune sometimes andwe're so stuck on wanting to be
agreeable and kind and nicethat we're unwilling to prune
right, yep, yeah, people.
Rami Al-Chacar (34:37):
I might get so boxy here for a second, but
Christians in particularsometimes focus so much on the
compassion side that they forgetthat there is a job to be done.
And we get caught in the weedswith all their feelings and we
want to make sure and it's just.
And, yes, people have feelings,yes, it needs to be
acknowledged, yes, but at theend of the day there's a job to
(34:58):
be done.
And it's the same thing in thebusiness side, like we have to
make money.
We're not going to make moneyif we're sitting here trying to
scratch everybody's back all thetime.
I guess, just, it's not areasonable expectation to set.
And so, when you come to termswith that and you're, and you
embrace that, then making thesehard decisions becomes a little
(35:22):
bit easier because at the end ofthe day, you're, you're,
ultimately you're bettering.
Like a lot of times, thesepeople that are unwilling to
move on things are abusing, andI mean that in a literal sense.
You're the girls in your officeand there are there.
That is one of my cardinalrules you do not abuse the girls
in the office.
(35:42):
Like, you take care of thosegirls and they're the ones that
are chewing them out all thetime, over and over about
something, and it's like it'snot acceptable, like it never is
acceptable.
And so you know you getting ridof this person is good for a
couple of things, because itmakes work life better, but
they're probably going to stayin the industry.
(36:03):
So now you're just giving thatbad employee to your competitor.
Shed Geek (36:09):
No, I like it.
I love your well thought outanswers that you even included
on there.
Matter of fact, I'm an houreight minutes in and I'm like,
hey, we're going to make thistwo 40 minute segments instead
of one hour and 10 minutesegment.
I'm I was going to save number10 and say, if you want to know,
go to the page or ask to be onit, but I'm gonna go ahead and
(36:29):
do it.
I'm going to go ahead and giveyou this one, uh, and then we'll
wrap up before too long, causeI think we could still get an
easy two part conversation outof this, and I don't want to,
and I don't want to say more,people are going to say par for
the course.
I just want you to know thatbetween me and you, brother.
There's no escape.
You know, like we.
(36:52):
Just I think we enjoy, we enjoythe conversation and that's OK.
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Shed Geek (37:49):
So, I'm gonna go ahead and do number 10.
Yeah, because I hear this a lot.
You know I I'm a 1099independent contractor.
Uh, you know, I mean I sellsheds, but I, you know, I
started my own LLC.
I got my little business going,all that good stuff.
I'm trying to grow my brandright here in town, my little
neck of the woods.
I'm spending money on marketingand other things.
(38:13):
Lot rent but I'm being told Ican't sell other products on my
lot if I want to receivebuildings on consignment from my
supplier.
But it's getting tough to makea living just selling one
product for one company, and ifI shut down they'll just move on
without me.
So I kind of feel stuck.
What do I do?
Rami Al-Chacar (38:36):
Again, layered answer.
Um, if the expectation is setfrom before and that
manufacturer is reciprocatingand but they're just picky than
that, than that, then you knowwhat you were expecting.
And if you need somethingdifferent, than move on now.
There's always the opportunity,because at the end of the day
(38:57):
it just comes down to money.
Like, am I going to make moneyor am I not From both sides
manufacturing retailer?
But if you can guarantee, hey,I can get you a million and a
half this year, pick a numberand sales.
You know, if I can hit thismark, is it OK if I bring in
(39:17):
this other line of product orwhatever, then you're back to
business.
It kind of also circles back tothe first or second point
you're talking about from before, where if you just can't bring
in another shed industry,another shed market, for example
(39:38):
, then introduce other products.
They don't own you, they justown that part of that segment of
the industry.
So sell literally anything elseand just kind of bring that in
there On the other side, ifthey're just so inflexible and
(40:02):
you're just trying to make aliving and they're not helping
you, then fine, they are just asreplaceable as a manufacturer
as you are as a dealer, and ifthey are so big to where they
don't need your business, thenyou don't need theirs either and
you can find a good localcompany or find another
(40:23):
manufacturer.
It took us 12, 13 years to getto where we had a comfortable
nest of suppliers on the steelside, suppliers on the shed
sides and suppliers on all theother stuff that you know that
(40:45):
we have to offer, and it took alot of cutting bait, took a
whole lot of cutting bait.
Again, facts over feelings, likethe fact that is, I need to
make money and if I can't makemoney, then I will find a way to
make that happen.
And you know, no harm, no foul.
You know it's just.
You know I don't.
You know I appreciate foul.
You know it's just.
You know I don't.
(41:05):
You know I appreciate what youhave done for me so far, but
it's time for you to come getyour stuff.
I have found a replacement.
Um and uh again, there arescenarios in between, but um,
but at the end of the day, youare here to make money, you are
here to make a living and youhave, if you have, to put food
on the family, on the table foryour family, you have to put a
(41:28):
roof over your head.
I mean, uh, and you need to goon vacation and you need to have
fun, you need to see the world.
I mean, it's not just theessentials, and if someone is
keeping you or manufacturerskeeping you from that, then work
around it.
Um the uh.
Now that also doesn't mean cutbait every 15 seconds and there
are others that will do that.
You know, I am not talking aboutthat.
(41:51):
Usually, when we cut bait with amanufacturer, you're talking
about years of just with a fewexceptions, a year, two years of
showing up late, cancelingorders.
You know, lying to customers,rescheduling, rescheduling, more
rescheduling, not fixing abuilding with repairs.
It's not worth it.
Shed Geek (42:11):
You know and so you know especially if you are local
and you've got a brand thatyou're building there, the local
community takes it out on you.
They don't typically take itout on the manufacturer and
that's.
And that's very hard for people, you know, to live in a
community and deal with thatsort of negative press cleaning
(42:33):
up anything that's on theirwebsite or trying to clean up
any flaws.
You know that does make ittough.
Rami Al-Chacar (42:40):
You have to live in that community yes, you do,
and we've had gold mines that,um, the wrong person got, uh was
working there and just it put abad taste in customer mouths
and we had to rebuild thereputation.
Uh, you know, it's just, andthat's, that's for manufacturers
(43:03):
, that's for the retailers, Imean, that's anything.
So, yeah, the people talk andone bad oh, don't shop, shop
there at one party, that's ifthere's 10 people at that party,
that's 10 people that know notto shop there.
You know it's just, you can't.
It's almost insurmountable atthat point.
(43:24):
Not quite, but it feels like it.
So, building a nest ofmanufacturers and a sales team
that again reciprocates yourefforts and honors your customer
and honors you and honors you,build like it is worth cutting
(43:51):
bait when you can to grow towhere now you can go to sleep at
night.
Now, you don't have to worryabout you know all.
is this manufacturer going toshow up after?
You know that it rained allthis time?
You know we have.
I know without a shadow of adoubt that when I sell a
building, that building is goingto be there when, like, I don't
have to think about it and itused to be not the case.
And so having a relationshipwith a company that that
(44:12):
understands that it's not justabout themselves and that
understands that I'm a piece ofthis equation, for them to be
sustainable, go it goes a very,very long way.
Shed Geek (44:24):
I love it.
I love it, man.
We got to.
We got to get you back on here.
Yeah, I love your thoughts.
I love that you took the timeto answer, you know, some of the
questions or commented on someof the thoughts that were out
there, cause I think thatcommunication keeps us grounded,
it keeps us connected and it'svery important.
(44:44):
You know, sometimes you feellike you're on an island by
yourself.
Maybe you're selling today andyou don't have anybody to bounce
these ideas and thoughts off of, and you know these social
media outlets become an optionthe podcast, you know I always
encourage people to listen, notfor my sake, but because you
might learn something.
You know, obviously we selladvertising on there to people
(45:05):
and we hope that, you know.
You know listeners will go andpurchase a product or purchase a
you know a service that that ison there.
That's why those people commitmoney to be on here and allow us
to do these things.
But I can't say enough, youknow about you know just the
short time I've known you andyour thoughts on different
(45:28):
things.
I really value your opinion andI look forward now to seeing
your comments and even responsesand things on the Shed.
Sales Professionals page andother, absolutely.
I really love that you thinkthings through and give a nice
comprehensive answer toeverything.
Think things through and give anice comprehensive answer to
(45:48):
everything.
Hello shed sellers, let's takea moment to discuss the shed
customer and meeting theirexpectations.
I remember growing up in theneighborhood where a certain
percentage of the houses hadwell-manicured lawns and
well-manicured homes.
These were the type ofindividuals who felt it was
important to purchase awell-constructed home or vehicle
, or maybe equipment to helpmaintain the quality of the item
.
As shed manufacturers, we seekto provide a well-built, quality
(46:10):
shed.
We want the customer to feelsatisfied that their hard-earned
money has been well spent on aproduct that will last.
At LuxGuard, we believe addinghigh-quality rubber flooring to
your line of sheds makes senseto the customer and adds value
the customer can appreciate.
With each year, sheds arebecoming more complex.
The customizations we areseeing are virtually endless.
(46:31):
LuxGuard not only gives acomplimentary aesthetic
appearance for their shed, butalso protects the floor from
spills and keeps cleanup simple.
Offer your customer thecustomer service they seek with
LuxGuard.
At LuxGuard, we are committed todelivering exceptional customer
service and innovative productsto help our customers achieve
their goals.
We strive to meet the evolvingneeds of the customers.
(46:54):
To speak with one of ourready-to-serve customer product
specialists, simply call336-468-4311.
To see our product and view aninstallation video, just visit
our website at luxguard.
com.
LuxGuard the floor that lasts alifetime
Before we go.
(47:15):
Anything that you have, anyquestions that you have
podcasting, shed related, justanything that I might be able to
answer in full transparency.
I always give everybody theoption to do that and if there's
just a question you have, I'mhappy to answer it if I can.
If not, yeah, I'll do my best.
Rami Al-Chacar (47:36):
So, a hurdle for me in all of my years is the
marketing piece.
I am not a marketer, so Ireally have to rely on a very
rugged concept of what marketinglooks like for my store, what
(47:57):
has worked for you as far asmarketing goes and what is your
expectation for a successfulmarketing campaign yeah, well,
you know, I tell people there'sa lot of reasons that I, I go
into or done certain things inthe industry is because I really
just try to be a good listener.
Shed Geek (48:17):
And then, uh, I, I learn.
You know, I learn from themistakes of others.
I don't just learn from themistakes of myself, I learn from
the mistakes of others and thenI try to from the mistakes of
myself.
I learned from the mistakes ofothers and then I try to, I try
to listen.
You know, when you teach yourchildren something, you usually
don't do this and, trust me,don't do it, cause I've been
down that road right.
That's why you tell them but.
But some are stubborn, like Iwas, and I had to figure it out
(48:38):
myself the hard way.
Rami Al-Chacar (48:39):
Right.
Shed Geek (48:40):
I had to go and learn the hard way that, like, even
though they were trying to helpme, I thought I knew better.
So, what I've learned is youknow, we have an agency that
serves the industry.
We serve, you know,approximately 50 clients in the
industry, and what I've learnedis to get myself.
I've literally done what otherpeople tell me is a key to
(49:04):
success, which is to putyourself in a room full of smart
people.
Yeah, it's really not thatcomplicated if we can take our
ego out of it right.
I just put myself in a roomfull of people a lot smarter
than me and voila, next thing,you know, they make me look
better than what I am, becauseI'm, I'm the, I'm the fifth
wheel, uh, uh, of five peopleand all of a sudden I become,
(49:27):
you know, uh, build a massiveamount of knowledge in this
thing myself by just surroundingmyself with these people.
So, I give a lot of credit to,to my team, um, uh, for sure.
But what's been really unique,and I'm sharing this with this
uh on this uh sales journeytomorrow that we're talking with
(49:48):
this company in Indiana is theretail market's changed?
It certainly changed fromwhenever we were growing up, and
it doesn't matter how you feelabout that market changing.
What matters is how you respondto it, and people are going to
(50:08):
be okay with your response.
If your response is like no,not doing it, not going to get
into it, I do just fine withoutit, I can promise you people who
are finding success in it arenot going to argue with you
because they don't really wantyou competing with them in it
anyway.
So they're okay with yourposition on that right.
I just think that the industryis definitely getting big enough
(50:32):
.
I don't know if it's saturatedby any means.
I believe there's a long way togo, but I just believe that the
retail market's changing and somuch of that is a technological
change and I've never been,surprisingly, like a big tech
guru.
I've never a lot of people ohyou got a podcast.
You're doing marketing.
(50:52):
You're doing all this.
Of course, you're a tech personand I'm like, well, I can, I
can talk the talk pretty good,but there's, there's people
around me who help walk the walkbetter than I do and I give
them I give them a lot of praise, a lot of credit for their
efforts and their expertise andyears of service and knowledge
that they've been grinding andfiguring these things out.
But the agency model has, Ifeel like has been really good
(51:15):
for us.
What we've been pushing is ouragency model.
You can hire a person, you canbring them in, you can pay 80
grand a year and, and guess what?
What you're probably going tofind someone who's very talented
if you hire a marketingpersonality.
So, I'm not trying to take anymarketing jobs away.
Sometimes you need a liaison,just to be clear, uh, between
(51:35):
the two.
I'm just saying you know anagency brings a different
perspective to it.
You know like we cansimultaneously work on building
your you know your digitalassets out, your website and,
and, and, while simultaneouslytalking to you about you know,
an ad budget and what kind of adcopy you want out there, and,
(51:57):
and that's hard for one personto do right.
When we have 10 people workingtowards your, your product and
your company, it's just a lotdifferent.
So I have found that to be themost successful.
The thing that I foundchallenging has been your
average and I hope I don't soundlike I'm insulting when I say
(52:19):
this, but like your averagedealer, your average dealer who
is trying to grow their ownbrand and then they sell the
brand of another manufacturer.
You know that's very difficult,again, based on even a million
dollars in sales, because tooperate a really good marketing
(52:42):
program, it's there's a cost toit, but the cost is an
investment, and the one thing wetell people is like, if you
invest in marketing, it shouldbe making you money, not costing
you money.
It's not a line item budget,right?
If you were going to go intoshed hauling, what's the first
thing you need to buy?
Probably a trailer, maybe atruck.
You know if you're going tosell sheds, you probably need to
(53:04):
buy some, two by fours, youknow so.
So, you're doing that.
Why?
Because it costs you money andit's always going to cost you
money.
No, you're doing it because itmakes you money.
Yeah, and that's the waymarketing should be thought of.
And if you're not, if you'renot being serviced in a way that
marketing is making you money,then I think you and your
(53:24):
marketing company need to have aconversation.
I know that if we're not makingpeople money, we will probably
be quicker to pull away thanthey will because we'll realize,
hey, we can't help you.
There's just nothing we can do.
And why can't we help you?
It might be because we'relimited by your budget.
It might be that we are limitedby your vision.
(53:45):
It might be that we are limitedby your vision.
It might be that you know, wejust can't serve you as well as
others can, based off yourunique business perspective.
But that's where customeracquisition comes in.
Right, you talked about thedifference in a shed company and
a metal company.
The customer acquisition timeis longer for a metal uh
(54:09):
customer than it is a shedcustomer.
Well, we've, we've approachedthat in marketing uh, we have
become almost consultants, ifyou will.
We, we actually sit down withpeople and say, in your broken
language, tell me what marketingis to you, and then we'll,
we'll have some thoughts on that.
Where we can, you know,converse back and forth to say,
(54:30):
well, in this situation, youknow, so we're educators.
You know we, we spend the timeto educate so that you feel
comfortable knowing what you're,what you're buying, and I think
that's super important Because,as you said, not everybody's a
marketer.
Rami Al-Chacar (54:46):
I would imagine if you, I am definitely not.
Shed Geek (54:51):
I tell shed builders all the time you know, if you
want to see, if you want to seeme fail, let's get out there and
compare your skills as amanufacturer versus mine.
I can probably build you a shedor something that looks similar
because I can probably see 90%of it looking the same or
(55:13):
similar to a shed that you havebuilt but you're going to come
in and pick it completely apartand say, oh, my goodness, this
is a terrible build.
This guy obviously doesn't knowwhat he's doing.
And that's what you know.
An agency will find, you know,they will say, hey, you're doing
a good job.
It's not that you're doingterrible, but there's some,
(55:35):
there's some obvious things here, like, right, you forgot this,
you know.
It's like, oh, I didn't evenknow that.
And it's like, well, how couldyou know that?
Right, so you know, that'sreally what you're attempting to
do.
You're attempting to comealongside and help people, but
uh, yeah, I don't know if Ianswered your question or not,
but me and you long-winded, sowe're talking about
(55:58):
reciprocation.
Rami Al-Chacar (55:58):
It's only fair.
I you know I was a littlelong-winded myself but you did.
Shed Geek (56:03):
You did great.
You did great.
Anything else that you want toshare with the industry?
Any shout outs or just anythingin general for those who are
listening today, Any finalthoughts.
Rami Al-Chacar (56:14):
Well, I mean, I'll say hello to all the
hometown shed peaks who will belistening to this, and then,
obviously, my wife is going tolisten to it as well.
So, hello, Denise, uh.
And then, obviously, my wife isgoing to listen to it as well.
So, hello, Denise, um.
And then, um, yeah, the onlything I was going to, I was
thinking about that.
I meant to mention from beforeum, and we piece that however
(56:36):
you need to, but the um you wereasking earlier about advice for
the new guys.
Um, and I've been circling thisin my head as you were kind of
explaining some of that Um,always take a step back and uh,
(56:58):
uh, take a step back and look atthe whole thing, at the whole
picture.
I have found that, like, myprice sheets every couple of
months will be just a little bitdifferent from a time before.
I took a step back and say, oh,I could have done this just a
little bit differently.
But yeah, that would.
That would be just that, liketaking a step back and just
reassessing my situation andlooking at it, making sure I'm
(57:21):
looking at it from a customer'sperspective, making sure I'm
looking at it from a customer'sperspective making.
Look at that, making sure I'mlooking at it from a?
Uh, well, honestly, from acustomer's perspective instead
of a retailer perspective or,even worse, from a
manufacturer's perspective.
Uh, and where I really kind ofdawned it was a daunting moment
for me is we had a brochure thata manufacturer made and it was
(57:41):
just a bunch of pictures intheir brochure of their plant.
Well, no one cares about that.
They want to know what theirshed's going to look like, and
so that was kind of the journeyfor me, kind of getting to this
point.
Uh, but really most recently inthe last couple, uh, I would
say in the last two years,really taking a step back and
it's like how am I presenting myinformation to these guys, to
(58:02):
these customers, in such a waythat they are captivated by what
I have to say?
And I'm telling you, it makes aworld of difference.
So anyways, I know that I waskind of out of order there, but
I just know I have been meaningto interject that somewhere.
Shed Geek (58:22):
So absolutely great advice, and I mean it whenever I
say we should to interject thatsomewhere.
So absolutely great advice, andI mean it whenever I say we
should have you back on.
I certainly appreciate you, youknow, being willing to come on
and share some thoughts.
I encourage everybody to go on.
And if you're involved in theshed industry, go check out the
Shed Sales Professionals page.
It's a private page.
Hey, while you're at it, goover, check out Shed Geek.
(58:43):
Give us a like you know, acomment.
Don't be afraid.
You know we're invested in theindustry.
So, again, if you're aprofessional, I believe that you
should search down everymagazine, publication, podcast,
book, post-it note, whatever youwant to, whatever you want to
look for to learn more aboutyour industry and to be better
(59:04):
and to learn how to servecustomers better, be better at
what you do.
Hey, I know every podcast isn'tfor everybody.
I always acknowledge that, Evenmy favorite podcasters, I don't
listen to every episode, but ifyou get some worth and some
value, give us a shout, give usa holler, be willing to sit down
with us.
Go check out our newsletter.
If you're not signed up for thenewsletter, just go to info at
(59:26):
shedgeek.
com.
Tell me who you are, Give meyour name, Give me your company,
Give me your email and we willbe sure to add you to it.
We have an email newsletter thatgoes out every Monday,
Wednesday and Friday thatdiscusses who's going to be on
the show.
It's full of advertisers andlinks that you can click on to
go, type in, search out theirstuff, even fill out a lead form
(59:48):
If you want to know more abouttheir products or service.
Give them a shout, because weappreciate those who are
supporters of the podcast overhere.
We want to support them.
That's just the way we operate.
I guess we're true capitalistsmaybe Rami in that.
In that mindset, we help thosewho help us.
We even help those who don'thelp us sometimes.
Rami Al-Chacar (01:00:08):
Exactly.
Shed Geek (01:00:09):
You know, Rami, I certainly appreciate it.
It's been a blast and we'llhave to get you back on.
I think that'll be great.
Rami Al-Chacar (01:00:15):
Yeah, please do.
Happy to help.
I'm happy to just spend sometime with you guys and kind of
get to know you, just like theother way around.
So I appreciate it Excellent,thank you.
Shed Geek (01:00:24):
Yeah.
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