August 15, 2025 • 23 mins
Talk to us, Shero! Talk to us!
Have you ever found yourself shrinking in a room full of people—dimming your own light before anyone else had the chance? That stops today.
The journey to authentic self-expression begins with reclaiming your sass, spunk, and soul.
We share powerful stories about transformative moments—whether it’s having the courage to ask for help when we normally wouldn’t, or recognizing times in professional settings when we gave away our power. These moments, big or small, are part of reclaiming your right to take up space without apology.
Because just because something has always been done a certain way doesn’t mean it should be done that way in your life now. You get to decide what stays and what goes.
Reclaiming yourself starts with noticing where you shrink, then taking small steps toward showing up fully. Over time, you build the ability to hold your space no matter who else is in the room—knowing their presence doesn’t diminish yours.
And for the Shero who wants to dig deeper ..
[grab your Reflection Sheet with Journal Prompts here]
Subscribe to Shero Café and join our movement to spread more self-care, more self-love, and more conversations that help you own your presence, speak up for yourself, and remember: you matter, and your space matters. Want to go deeper? Download the reflective questions and start standing powerfully in your truth.
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Email: deb@debbiepearson.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Debbie (00:03):
Welcome to the Shiro Cafe.
This episode is about how tostand fully in who you are and
own every inch of your presence.
This is about reclaiming yoursass, spunk and soul and showing
up in a way that makes yourpresence undeniable.
You're not waiting forpermission or invitation.
You matter and your spacematters.
(00:24):
Permission or invitation youmatter and your space matters.
Before we go any further,please subscribe to our channel.
Not only do we reallyappreciate it, but it helps
support our mission to get theword out to other women.
Deborah (00:35):
Wow, I just love this subject.
It is so interesting.
When I think about this subject, I think about how many times I
kicked myself out of the room.
Before I got kicked out of theroom.
It's like, oh you know, thesepeople are too whatever and you
don't belong here, you're notgood enough, you're not whatever
(00:59):
enough, and you know.
And instead of just standing inmy own power, in my own space
and I remember many times,especially in the corporate
environment and you know many ofthe social environments that I
was in where I would be the onlywhatever or even just not the
(01:20):
only, but I would be the only meand would just kind of shrink,
shrink back a little bit to notreally step in and step up and
defer to whoever and justadvocate my power, advocate my
space and I am looking atDeborah Edwards now and how I
(01:45):
claim my space fully.
I don't advocate my space, Iadvocate for myself.
You are not going to get me todo your job of beating me up.
You're going to have to do thework and if that's your
intention, then you're going tobe facing somebody that's fully
(02:05):
present, fully aware of herpower and fully aware of her
right to hold space in the room.
Debbie (02:16):
Like that, that is so powerful.
You started by saying kickingmyself out, and it's like holy
cow, like that really hit me.
Like how many times do weactually kick ourselves out
before someone else quoteunquote has the chance?
But we do seemingly seem tomaybe get off that vibe or set
(02:41):
ourselves up, or whatever thewords are where we actually go.
Let me just, withoutconsciously thinking it, maybe
we just kind of shrink to theside and allow that other person
.
And then you said somethingelse that I felt your power, I
felt your presence, and it wasabout how I gave myself
(03:01):
permission.
I don't know if you use thatexact words, but you were like
you know, I stand up for myself.
Now it was like, wow, it justfelt incredibly powerful.
Deborah, that was beautiful.
So, yeah, thank you for sharingthat.
Um, it's, it is challenging howwe, for whatever reason, get to
(03:22):
the place where we don't reallyknow how to stand up for
ourselves.
We don't really know how tolike stand sturdy, we don't
really know how to own our power.
I like that.
What I see now is you lead fromthat fire within, you know, and
(03:46):
and it shows like that was justpowerful, I don't know it's
clear that with time your wisdomgrew and it's like you didn't
need or want I'm not really sureof the right word but where you
(04:07):
maybe used to look for approvalor validation.
I mean, I know that you don'tanymore, but obviously there
came a point where you went.
That's it.
That's enough, not doing thatanymore.
Deborah (04:20):
Right, because what I was wanting to do is reclaim.
Right, because what I waswanting to do is reclaim.
(04:47):
First of all, you became aware,an employee we're going to
defer to whoever has the highesttitle in the room.
That's just the way our societyis set up.
Until you get to a place whereyou're like wait, this whole
stuff is set up against me.
I'm not playing, I'm not goingto set myself up.
Debbie (05:03):
Exactly, and if you get into the right relationship,
it's like you find that you'reable to co-lead.
You know, sometimes one personwill know more about a topic
subject and they should be thelead for that, but then they
step back in their place andwhen something else comes up,
the other person might be andthey step in and you know it's
(05:25):
just more.
Um, what's the word I'm lookingfor?
Deborah (05:29):
It's a it's harmonious, harmonious, harmonious, you
know, because you know, if I amsitting here and making myself
small in a room and not saying,yeah, I know my stuff and I have
something to offer to this, youknow what, who, that doesn't
serve.
It doesn't serve me and itdoesn't serve the world either.
(05:50):
It doesn't serve theorganization, it doesn't serve
my relationship with my husbandbecause, just like you said,
there are things that I'm betterat than maybe what another
member of my family is better at, and if I keep myself small,
then neither one of us aregetting the benefit of that.
And so if you allow yourself tobe your full self, to be
(06:14):
present and to share all of yourgifts and to have that, um,
that confidence in your gifts,then you're lifting up the rest
of the world too, right, andthose around you.
Debbie (06:27):
Absolutely.
I feel like as I live my lifefrom my highest good, even
though it may upset or annoy orchallenge someone else.
When you step far enough back,it's like you can see that the
(06:50):
reason that they're upset, forwhatever reason, is a little bit
of a control or they're notquite living their highest good
and they don't want you tochange, or they there's
something that they're trying tohold on to, and so sometimes
living our highest good meansthat we've shifted and changed,
and it shifts and change thedynamic.
(07:11):
Some people get really scaredabout that, but if we stay with
our highest self, what we end uplearning is that is the highest
good for everyone involved.
Exactly, trust is so.
In the beginning of the umintro I said something about um
reclaiming your sass, spunk andsoul.
(07:31):
So you know, sometimes,especially if you grew up this
way, being sassy was a bad thingoh yeah being spunky was like a
calm down child, right, and youeven use the word soul.
If you grew up in a religioushousehold, that could have been
like sacrilegious and you wereput down for that.
(07:53):
So I would like to kind of likejust give a little idea of what
we're talking about, becausereclaiming your sass, spunk and
soul is actually just a reallybeneficial thing.
So your sass would be yourboldness, but in an assertive,
(08:13):
not an aggressive way.
So no BS.
And when I say no BS, I'mtalking about being authentic,
because if we're not beingauthentic and we're not being
true to ourselves, then nobody'sgetting the best of us,
including ourselves.
Spunk is like your spark, yourjoy, your playfulness.
(08:33):
That's awesome.
We should have more of that.
That is amazing.
And if we're not doing that,maybe look at why we're not
doing it.
What can we possibly do toshift that?
And then your soul is your deepknowing.
It's your intuition and yoursacred truth.
Deborah (08:52):
And I would add a couple of things to those Like
spunk.
Spunk is your sense ofadventure, this you know.
Okay, I'm gonna, you know I'mgonna do this, I'm just gonna go
for it, I'm gonna do it, I'mgonna.
It's like gumption to me, thatgumption, that, and that's an
old word, but you know I've gotto resolve.
(09:14):
Yeah, conviction, that's an oldword, but you know I've got to
resolve.
Yeah, conviction, yeah,conviction, yeah.
And so I really really likethat.
And I have a, a, a story that Ican tell.
Nice, I was at, you know, I am I, I I lead, I am a leader in an
(09:36):
organization called Be Present.
Yes, and one of the things thatwe have is a annual retreat for
the black and female, and Ijust got off of this weekend
retreat and I was, you know,kind of riding the high of
everything and the empowermentand all of this.
(09:56):
You know kind of riding thehigh of everything and the
empowerment and all of this.
Sure, and I was in a, in acafeteria, and there was this
man standing there I will saythat he was an older gentleman
and I was in the middle of a, acertain County in Georgia, that,
and you know, and I'll justleave that there.
(10:17):
And I needed some help withsomething and I typically would
have just never asked thisperson.
And I just looked at this guy.
I'm like, hey, can you help medo this?
And you know, and before Iwould have been like, oh, I'm
not going to ask that guy, youknow, that's that's then.
But I asked him to help me andguess what he helped me?
(10:40):
Oh, he was happy to help me doit.
And that's the story of, firstof all, having the sass, the
gumption, the um, resolve.
I I guess I don't even knowwhat it was, but just feeling
like I have a space in the room,I have equal space in the room
and if I deserve, if I want toask for help, I deserve to ask
(11:04):
for that help.
Debbie (11:06):
Absolutely.
I mean, if he would have saidno, you would have been okay.
I mean you would have justmoved on.
But I think what it is is as,as we become more comfortable
with who we are and we're moreauthentic, we're not as
concerned about what they say.
And I think that shows, andthat's what I'm talking about.
(11:26):
It's not the energy of well,you know, like a kind of whiny
or can you please help me likewe're victims or we're exactly.
I don't want to use that wordbecause but we're less, we're
we're.
What was?
What is it that you saidearlier, taking myself out the
room, you know?
To me would not normally havein the past.
And then here this person.
(11:58):
I don't know, were yousurprised when he said yes, or
were you just, like I, expectedhim to say yes and that's why
yeah.
Deborah (12:05):
I just kind of I didn't even care, you know, I just was
in the moment.
But then this is what I equateself love and self care.
Quick self-love and self-careAbsolutely Is advocating for
yourself, loving yourself sothat you find out what your
needs are in the moment.
You're taking up all of yourspace.
(12:26):
Here's my need in the moment.
I deserve to have my need metand let's look around and see
who can help me or if I need todo something different to get my
need met.
Debbie (12:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing that we grow up with certain
rules and they become habits,that we act a particular way so
that we're following that rulethat was made by, I just say,
the others.
So that's usually an authorityfigure of some sort, whether
it's a parent, a teacher orwhatever.
So that's usually an authorityfigure of some sort, whether
(12:59):
it's a parent, a teacher orwhatever and that authority
figure expects us to follow therules they set, and so we kind
of end up boxing ourselves in tomake sure we follow that rule.
And then we go somewhere elseand then they have another rule,
and another rule, and anotherrule, and so we're like boxing
ourselves into this little tiny,little minuscule thing of who
we actually are, because we'retrying to follow all those rules
.
(13:20):
I heard a saying no, I read it,but it doesn't matter.
But there was a saying thatcame into my life in my mid
thirties and it made such a hugeimpact for me.
I had moved away from my homestate, you know, living within
an hour of my parents.
Okay, I moved away from thatstate after 30 something years,
(13:41):
mid thirties, and being inanother state, like 600 miles
away, was like the first timeI'd ever experienced that much
distance and it was very freeingbecause I didn't have to worry
every day Would my parents showup or am I not doing it the
right way?
Even though those weren'treally conscious thoughts, that
(14:04):
was just part of life becausethat's what I'd always lived.
But this saying came and I cutit out.
It was in a magazine.
You remember those things,those paper things we used to
look at?
And it said something like justbecause things were done a
particular way in the house yougrew up in, doesn't mean you
(14:25):
have to continue doing them inthe house you live in now.
And when I tell you for me Imean it was like mind blown,
like blown for the first timethat it was like that statement
gave me permission to say I cando things differently, like
(14:46):
somehow, that's OK.
I cut it out, I taped it to thewall like I wanted to see that
every day because it reallyopened something up inside of me
day, because it really openedsomething up inside of me.
So it's like how are webehaving today?
Even that is a way that maybewe're doing it because we're
(15:09):
still around the people we love,we're not trying to bash them,
but maybe that's not our, maybethat's not how we really want to
be, and maybe take a look atthat and say am I doing that
because I just that's just whatI've always done, or am I doing
that because I really choosethat?
Deborah (15:30):
So, yeah, yeah, I mean I totally get that and you know,
and you know, when you weretalking about that, saying that
meant so, and presence to whereyou are right now, but making
(15:59):
choices, that I guess the thingthat I want to say is that it
all begins with awareness.
Just start looking at thosesituations to start saying, okay
, you know where am I situations?
To start saying, okay, you know, where am I, you know,
(16:19):
presenting myself smaller thanwhere I am?
Where am I not getting my voiceout?
Where am I not showing up?
And just begin by just lookingat those and seeing how you can
maybe make a different decisionin those moments, you know.
Debbie (16:36):
Absolutely.
I mean even like clothing.
I can remember just beingaround family members and I
would just hear these theselittle judgments and I would
hear something like oh, I thinkshe's getting a little too heavy
to wear those pants, right andjust, and not thinking whether
(17:01):
they were good, bad, right orwrong that they said that, but
internalizing that to go oh, Ibetter be careful about the
pants I wear because I might bejudged, like that became part of
every time I went to buy a newpair of pants or whatever
clothing or whatever I was doing.
I was filtering that thoughtbecause I heard that from people
I loved and we don't, you knowanyway.
(17:24):
So but it's like just to lookat.
And then there came a point notthat I'm going to be on a, I was
going to spend a Walmart camand I was going to spend a
Walmart cam.
You know, it's not that I'mgoing to be, you know, stepping
out into public and weirdclothes that even I wouldn't do.
But it was like taking a lookand going why am I so concerned
(17:46):
that they may judge with that?
And then just finding theclothes that feel right for me
or whatever.
It is the car or the friends orwhoever I'm hanging out with,
whatever, because I did shrink,I did become invisible, I had I
guess you could say I allowed.
I didn't realize I was allowingit, but I allowed, I made the
(18:06):
agreement with myself that.
I'm going to let their wordsdictate how I am.
And so, yep, that happened infamily, that happened at work,
that happened in family, thathappened at work, that happened
everywhere in my life, until itdid.
Deborah (18:18):
Let me just okay.
I know we're coming to the endof this episode, but this just
brought something up to me thatwas just just a recollection of
my sassy young self.
I like to used to wear shortshorts when I was younger and I
was working out in the yard withmy mom and one and my boyfriend
comes up and my mom says, dave,don't you think those shorts
(18:43):
are a little short?
And he said, yes, I do, sheshouldn't be wearing shorts like
that.
Guess where Dave was the nextday?
Not my boyfriend, you know.
So situations like that you gotto stand up for yourself and
just notice.
You know, when somebody's youknow trying to make you small,
(19:04):
or when you're making yourselfsmall and advocate for yourself,
stand up for yourself.
But that was when I was like 15.
I don't wear short shortsanymore for obvious reasons.
But the thing is, I can thinkof all of those examples where I
did that and when I'm thinkingabout us today, when we're
(19:24):
wanting to move from, you know,from being that person that
kicks herself out of the roombefore anybody else.
It's baby steps.
Debbie (19:32):
Yes.
Deborah (19:33):
That's, you know.
Just find one area.
I remember this organizationjust a couple of years ago that
I belong to and I was afraid tospeak, you know, and so then I
just took the risk and said,okay, I'm going to speak, and it
was well-received, and then Ifelt comfortable to speak again
(19:54):
and I kept speaking and therewere times when I had I was
challenged and then I welcomedthe challenge.
So, just trying these littlebaby steps to try to move you
towards more expressing who youreally are and more expressing
or allowing yourself to take upyour space, your full space in
the room, in full presence.
Debbie (20:17):
So I have to like maybe push back a little bit on that
story or maybe just ask aquestion, because I'm looking
back at my own experience whereI was in a room of full of
people and I had a question.
These people I considered to beI'm going to use the word above,
but meaning it in the way thatthey knew more about this topic
(20:40):
than I did, right, so they wereknowledgeable and I was a little
afraid that my question was notgoing to be received well, so I
was a little nervous about it,but I wanted the answer and so I
started to ask the question andthe moderator just talked right
over me and acted like I didn'tsay a word and just kept going,
(21:00):
and it was not a goodexperience for me.
I really shut down.
It like turned my stomach.
I just felt horrible and small,but I did the thing that you
know the good little girls aresupposed to do the compliance
and you know.
And that was just nod and smilethe rest of the time, and then
I never wanted to go backbecause it was just horrible.
(21:22):
As soon as it was over, I waslike out of there.
Yeah, so did you have some badexperiences that brought you to
walk to the place where youcould stand on your own two feet
, cause you said something aboutbaby steps to the place where
you could stand on your own twofeet, because you said something
about baby steps.
Deborah (21:35):
Yes, yes, yes.
Because no, it wasn't allsunshine and rainbows and all of
that, because there was havingto get past that fear, which was
the first thing.
And then, when someone took uptheir space in the room, I had
to feel like them taking uptheir space in the room wasn't
(21:55):
taken away from my space, ohnice so they could.
They could challenge me, theycould whatever, and that didn't
mean anything about me.
I still had the ability to holdmy space.
But it took me a while to getthere.
Yeah, because every timesomeone challenged me or
whatever, I felt like, oh Ibetter back on, you know.
(22:17):
So then you build that, youbuild that, you build that.
I don't have to back off, I canstay in my space and accept
whatever comes.
Debbie (22:27):
So the thing you talked about just now is the awareness
part.
We just paid attention to whatwas going on people too which
brings to mind before we go that, um, we have some questions.
If you guys want to, um,download, uh, some reflective
questions and we'll the Shiro inyou.
(23:01):
Yes, bye, bye everybody.
Welcome to the Shiro Cafe.
This episode is about how tostand fully in who you are and
own every inch of your presence.
This is about reclaiming yoursass, spunk and soul and showing
up in a way that makes yourpresence undeniable.
You're not waiting forpermission or invitation.
You matter and your spacematters.
(00:24):
Permission or invitation youmatter and your space matters.
Before we go any further,please subscribe to our channel.
Not only do we reallyappreciate it, but it helps
support our mission to get theword out to other women.
Deborah (00:35):
Wow, I just love this subject.
It is so interesting.
When I think about this subject, I think about how many times I
kicked myself out of the room.
Before I got kicked out of theroom.
It's like, oh you know, thesepeople are too whatever and you
don't belong here, you're notgood enough, you're not whatever
(00:59):
enough, and you know.
And instead of just standing inmy own power, in my own space
and I remember many times,especially in the corporate
environment and you know many ofthe social environments that I
was in where I would be the onlywhatever or even just not the
(01:20):
only, but I would be the only meand would just kind of shrink,
shrink back a little bit to notreally step in and step up and
defer to whoever and justadvocate my power, advocate my
space and I am looking atDeborah Edwards now and how I
(01:45):
claim my space fully.
I don't advocate my space, Iadvocate for myself.
You are not going to get me todo your job of beating me up.
You're going to have to do thework and if that's your
intention, then you're going tobe facing somebody that's fully
(02:05):
present, fully aware of herpower and fully aware of her
right to hold space in the room.
Debbie (02:16):
Like that, that is so powerful.
You started by saying kickingmyself out, and it's like holy
cow, like that really hit me.
Like how many times do weactually kick ourselves out
before someone else quoteunquote has the chance?
But we do seemingly seem tomaybe get off that vibe or set
(02:41):
ourselves up, or whatever thewords are where we actually go.
Let me just, withoutconsciously thinking it, maybe
we just kind of shrink to theside and allow that other person
.
And then you said somethingelse that I felt your power, I
felt your presence, and it wasabout how I gave myself
(03:01):
permission.
I don't know if you use thatexact words, but you were like
you know, I stand up for myself.
Now it was like, wow, it justfelt incredibly powerful.
Deborah, that was beautiful.
So, yeah, thank you for sharingthat.
Um, it's, it is challenging howwe, for whatever reason, get to
(03:22):
the place where we don't reallyknow how to stand up for
ourselves.
We don't really know how tolike stand sturdy, we don't
really know how to own our power.
I like that.
What I see now is you lead fromthat fire within, you know, and
(03:46):
and it shows like that was justpowerful, I don't know it's
clear that with time your wisdomgrew and it's like you didn't
need or want I'm not really sureof the right word but where you
(04:07):
maybe used to look for approvalor validation.
I mean, I know that you don'tanymore, but obviously there
came a point where you went.
That's it.
That's enough, not doing thatanymore.
Deborah (04:20):
Right, because what I was wanting to do is reclaim.
Right, because what I waswanting to do is reclaim.
(04:47):
First of all, you became aware,an employee we're going to
defer to whoever has the highesttitle in the room.
That's just the way our societyis set up.
Until you get to a place whereyou're like wait, this whole
stuff is set up against me.
I'm not playing, I'm not goingto set myself up.
Debbie (05:03):
Exactly, and if you get into the right relationship,
it's like you find that you'reable to co-lead.
You know, sometimes one personwill know more about a topic
subject and they should be thelead for that, but then they
step back in their place andwhen something else comes up,
the other person might be andthey step in and you know it's
(05:25):
just more.
Um, what's the word I'm lookingfor?
Deborah (05:29):
It's a it's harmonious, harmonious, harmonious, you
know, because you know, if I amsitting here and making myself
small in a room and not saying,yeah, I know my stuff and I have
something to offer to this, youknow what, who, that doesn't
serve.
It doesn't serve me and itdoesn't serve the world either.
(05:50):
It doesn't serve theorganization, it doesn't serve
my relationship with my husbandbecause, just like you said,
there are things that I'm betterat than maybe what another
member of my family is better at, and if I keep myself small,
then neither one of us aregetting the benefit of that.
And so if you allow yourself tobe your full self, to be
(06:14):
present and to share all of yourgifts and to have that, um,
that confidence in your gifts,then you're lifting up the rest
of the world too, right, andthose around you.
Debbie (06:27):
Absolutely.
I feel like as I live my lifefrom my highest good, even
though it may upset or annoy orchallenge someone else.
When you step far enough back,it's like you can see that the
(06:50):
reason that they're upset, forwhatever reason, is a little bit
of a control or they're notquite living their highest good
and they don't want you tochange, or they there's
something that they're trying tohold on to, and so sometimes
living our highest good meansthat we've shifted and changed,
and it shifts and change thedynamic.
(07:11):
Some people get really scaredabout that, but if we stay with
our highest self, what we end uplearning is that is the highest
good for everyone involved.
Exactly, trust is so.
In the beginning of the umintro I said something about um
reclaiming your sass, spunk andsoul.
(07:31):
So you know, sometimes,especially if you grew up this
way, being sassy was a bad thingoh yeah being spunky was like a
calm down child, right, and youeven use the word soul.
If you grew up in a religioushousehold, that could have been
like sacrilegious and you wereput down for that.
(07:53):
So I would like to kind of likejust give a little idea of what
we're talking about, becausereclaiming your sass, spunk and
soul is actually just a reallybeneficial thing.
So your sass would be yourboldness, but in an assertive,
(08:13):
not an aggressive way.
So no BS.
And when I say no BS, I'mtalking about being authentic,
because if we're not beingauthentic and we're not being
true to ourselves, then nobody'sgetting the best of us,
including ourselves.
Spunk is like your spark, yourjoy, your playfulness.
(08:33):
That's awesome.
We should have more of that.
That is amazing.
And if we're not doing that,maybe look at why we're not
doing it.
What can we possibly do toshift that?
And then your soul is your deepknowing.
It's your intuition and yoursacred truth.
Deborah (08:52):
And I would add a couple of things to those Like
spunk.
Spunk is your sense ofadventure, this you know.
Okay, I'm gonna, you know I'mgonna do this, I'm just gonna go
for it, I'm gonna do it, I'mgonna.
It's like gumption to me, thatgumption, that, and that's an
old word, but you know I've gotto resolve.
(09:14):
Yeah, conviction, that's an oldword, but you know I've got to
resolve.
Yeah, conviction, yeah,conviction, yeah.
And so I really really likethat.
And I have a, a, a story that Ican tell.
Nice, I was at, you know, I am I, I I lead, I am a leader in an
(09:36):
organization called Be Present.
Yes, and one of the things thatwe have is a annual retreat for
the black and female, and Ijust got off of this weekend
retreat and I was, you know,kind of riding the high of
everything and the empowermentand all of this.
(09:56):
You know kind of riding thehigh of everything and the
empowerment and all of this.
Sure, and I was in a, in acafeteria, and there was this
man standing there I will saythat he was an older gentleman
and I was in the middle of a, acertain County in Georgia, that,
and you know, and I'll justleave that there.
(10:17):
And I needed some help withsomething and I typically would
have just never asked thisperson.
And I just looked at this guy.
I'm like, hey, can you help medo this?
And you know, and before Iwould have been like, oh, I'm
not going to ask that guy, youknow, that's that's then.
But I asked him to help me andguess what he helped me?
(10:40):
Oh, he was happy to help me doit.
And that's the story of, firstof all, having the sass, the
gumption, the um, resolve.
I I guess I don't even knowwhat it was, but just feeling
like I have a space in the room,I have equal space in the room
and if I deserve, if I want toask for help, I deserve to ask
(11:04):
for that help.
Debbie (11:06):
Absolutely.
I mean, if he would have saidno, you would have been okay.
I mean you would have justmoved on.
But I think what it is is as,as we become more comfortable
with who we are and we're moreauthentic, we're not as
concerned about what they say.
And I think that shows, andthat's what I'm talking about.
(11:26):
It's not the energy of well,you know, like a kind of whiny
or can you please help me likewe're victims or we're exactly.
I don't want to use that wordbecause but we're less, we're
we're.
What was?
What is it that you saidearlier, taking myself out the
room, you know?
To me would not normally havein the past.
And then here this person.
(11:58):
I don't know, were yousurprised when he said yes, or
were you just, like I, expectedhim to say yes and that's why
yeah.
Deborah (12:05):
I just kind of I didn't even care, you know, I just was
in the moment.
But then this is what I equateself love and self care.
Quick self-love and self-careAbsolutely Is advocating for
yourself, loving yourself sothat you find out what your
needs are in the moment.
You're taking up all of yourspace.
(12:26):
Here's my need in the moment.
I deserve to have my need metand let's look around and see
who can help me or if I need todo something different to get my
need met.
Debbie (12:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing that we grow up with certain
rules and they become habits,that we act a particular way so
that we're following that rulethat was made by, I just say,
the others.
So that's usually an authorityfigure of some sort, whether
it's a parent, a teacher orwhatever.
So that's usually an authorityfigure of some sort, whether
(12:59):
it's a parent, a teacher orwhatever and that authority
figure expects us to follow therules they set, and so we kind
of end up boxing ourselves in tomake sure we follow that rule.
And then we go somewhere elseand then they have another rule,
and another rule, and anotherrule, and so we're like boxing
ourselves into this little tiny,little minuscule thing of who
we actually are, because we'retrying to follow all those rules
.
(13:20):
I heard a saying no, I read it,but it doesn't matter.
But there was a saying thatcame into my life in my mid
thirties and it made such a hugeimpact for me.
I had moved away from my homestate, you know, living within
an hour of my parents.
Okay, I moved away from thatstate after 30 something years,
(13:41):
mid thirties, and being inanother state, like 600 miles
away, was like the first timeI'd ever experienced that much
distance and it was very freeingbecause I didn't have to worry
every day Would my parents showup or am I not doing it the
right way?
Even though those weren'treally conscious thoughts, that
(14:04):
was just part of life becausethat's what I'd always lived.
But this saying came and I cutit out.
It was in a magazine.
You remember those things,those paper things we used to
look at?
And it said something like justbecause things were done a
particular way in the house yougrew up in, doesn't mean you
(14:25):
have to continue doing them inthe house you live in now.
And when I tell you for me Imean it was like mind blown,
like blown for the first timethat it was like that statement
gave me permission to say I cando things differently, like
(14:46):
somehow, that's OK.
I cut it out, I taped it to thewall like I wanted to see that
every day because it reallyopened something up inside of me
day, because it really openedsomething up inside of me.
So it's like how are webehaving today?
Even that is a way that maybewe're doing it because we're
(15:09):
still around the people we love,we're not trying to bash them,
but maybe that's not our, maybethat's not how we really want to
be, and maybe take a look atthat and say am I doing that
because I just that's just whatI've always done, or am I doing
that because I really choosethat?
Deborah (15:30):
So, yeah, yeah, I mean I totally get that and you know,
and you know, when you weretalking about that, saying that
meant so, and presence to whereyou are right now, but making
(15:59):
choices, that I guess the thingthat I want to say is that it
all begins with awareness.
Just start looking at thosesituations to start saying, okay
, you know where am I situations?
To start saying, okay, you know, where am I, you know,
(16:19):
presenting myself smaller thanwhere I am?
Where am I not getting my voiceout?
Where am I not showing up?
And just begin by just lookingat those and seeing how you can
maybe make a different decisionin those moments, you know.
Debbie (16:36):
Absolutely.
I mean even like clothing.
I can remember just beingaround family members and I
would just hear these theselittle judgments and I would
hear something like oh, I thinkshe's getting a little too heavy
to wear those pants, right andjust, and not thinking whether
(17:01):
they were good, bad, right orwrong that they said that, but
internalizing that to go oh, Ibetter be careful about the
pants I wear because I might bejudged, like that became part of
every time I went to buy a newpair of pants or whatever
clothing or whatever I was doing.
I was filtering that thoughtbecause I heard that from people
I loved and we don't, you knowanyway.
(17:24):
So but it's like just to lookat.
And then there came a point notthat I'm going to be on a, I was
going to spend a Walmart camand I was going to spend a
Walmart cam.
You know, it's not that I'mgoing to be, you know, stepping
out into public and weirdclothes that even I wouldn't do.
But it was like taking a lookand going why am I so concerned
(17:46):
that they may judge with that?
And then just finding theclothes that feel right for me
or whatever.
It is the car or the friends orwhoever I'm hanging out with,
whatever, because I did shrink,I did become invisible, I had I
guess you could say I allowed.
I didn't realize I was allowingit, but I allowed, I made the
(18:06):
agreement with myself that.
I'm going to let their wordsdictate how I am.
And so, yep, that happened infamily, that happened at work,
that happened in family, thathappened at work, that happened
everywhere in my life, until itdid.
Deborah (18:18):
Let me just okay.
I know we're coming to the endof this episode, but this just
brought something up to me thatwas just just a recollection of
my sassy young self.
I like to used to wear shortshorts when I was younger and I
was working out in the yard withmy mom and one and my boyfriend
comes up and my mom says, dave,don't you think those shorts
(18:43):
are a little short?
And he said, yes, I do, sheshouldn't be wearing shorts like
that.
Guess where Dave was the nextday?
Not my boyfriend, you know.
So situations like that you gotto stand up for yourself and
just notice.
You know, when somebody's youknow trying to make you small,
(19:04):
or when you're making yourselfsmall and advocate for yourself,
stand up for yourself.
But that was when I was like 15.
I don't wear short shortsanymore for obvious reasons.
But the thing is, I can thinkof all of those examples where I
did that and when I'm thinkingabout us today, when we're
(19:24):
wanting to move from, you know,from being that person that
kicks herself out of the roombefore anybody else.
It's baby steps.
Debbie (19:32):
Yes.
Deborah (19:33):
That's, you know.
Just find one area.
I remember this organizationjust a couple of years ago that
I belong to and I was afraid tospeak, you know, and so then I
just took the risk and said,okay, I'm going to speak, and it
was well-received, and then Ifelt comfortable to speak again
(19:54):
and I kept speaking and therewere times when I had I was
challenged and then I welcomedthe challenge.
So, just trying these littlebaby steps to try to move you
towards more expressing who youreally are and more expressing
or allowing yourself to take upyour space, your full space in
the room, in full presence.
Debbie (20:17):
So I have to like maybe push back a little bit on that
story or maybe just ask aquestion, because I'm looking
back at my own experience whereI was in a room of full of
people and I had a question.
These people I considered to beI'm going to use the word above,
but meaning it in the way thatthey knew more about this topic
(20:40):
than I did, right, so they wereknowledgeable and I was a little
afraid that my question was notgoing to be received well, so I
was a little nervous about it,but I wanted the answer and so I
started to ask the question andthe moderator just talked right
over me and acted like I didn'tsay a word and just kept going,
(21:00):
and it was not a goodexperience for me.
I really shut down.
It like turned my stomach.
I just felt horrible and small,but I did the thing that you
know the good little girls aresupposed to do the compliance
and you know.
And that was just nod and smilethe rest of the time, and then
I never wanted to go backbecause it was just horrible.
(21:22):
As soon as it was over, I waslike out of there.
Yeah, so did you have some badexperiences that brought you to
walk to the place where youcould stand on your own two feet
, cause you said something aboutbaby steps to the place where
you could stand on your own twofeet, because you said something
about baby steps.
Deborah (21:35):
Yes, yes, yes.
Because no, it wasn't allsunshine and rainbows and all of
that, because there was havingto get past that fear, which was
the first thing.
And then, when someone took uptheir space in the room, I had
to feel like them taking uptheir space in the room wasn't
(21:55):
taken away from my space, ohnice so they could.
They could challenge me, theycould whatever, and that didn't
mean anything about me.
I still had the ability to holdmy space.
But it took me a while to getthere.
Yeah, because every timesomeone challenged me or
whatever, I felt like, oh Ibetter back on, you know.
(22:17):
So then you build that, youbuild that, you build that.
I don't have to back off, I canstay in my space and accept
whatever comes.
Debbie (22:27):
So the thing you talked about just now is the awareness
part.
We just paid attention to whatwas going on people too which
brings to mind before we go that, um, we have some questions.
If you guys want to, um,download, uh, some reflective
questions and we'll the Shiro inyou.
(23:01):
Yes, bye, bye everybody.
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