October 31, 2021 • 43 mins
Xixi Wang, founder of Asians for Sex Positivity, discusses what sex positivity means for Xixi and her relationship with her immigrant parents as a queer Asian. We discuss mental health stigma and finding gratitude for our parents as we get older.
**CONTENT WARNING: Suicidal thoughts**
Takeaway:
- Sex positivity is not about whether sex is good nor bad, it is about owning your body and your choices
- We need to unlearn suppressing our emotional and mental health struggles just to avoid disappointing our parents
- Relationships with parents are complicated because they are a source of trauma but they can also lead to recovery
- Forgiving our parents for unintentional trauma can come in baby steps
Mentions & Resources:
- Asians for Sex Positivity (Instagram)
- Xixi Wang Artist (Instagram)
- 8 Tips for Talking About Mental Health With Your Asian Family
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristy Yee (00:00):
I love the lights.
Yeah.
(00:27):
Welcome back to another episodeof shit.
We don't tell mom where we talkabout uncomfortable things.
Today.
We have a special guest.
Her name is Sisi Wang.
CC was raised in Vancouver,Canada, but now they are living
in New York for the last eightyears they're super into
painting and dancing, and theywant to learn how to tattoo and
(00:48):
have an art gallery one day andthinking about becoming a
sexologist, they are also thefounder of Asians for sex
positivity.
It's an Instagram page createdto deconstruct fetish, ization,
dismantling sexual shame, andwelcoming all sexualities and
gender identity.
So welcome CC to the show.
Xixi Wang (01:09):
Hi.
thank you so much for having meso honored to be here.
I've been listening to y'all'spodcast for a little bit now, so
I'm really excited.
Kristy Yee (01:18):
Nice cC, you're all about like promoting sex
positive.
That's like your thing, right?
What is, what does that mean toyou?
Xixi Wang (01:28):
Oh, what a big question.
I mean, a lot of differentthings.
I think sex positivity means somany different things to
different people, but to mepersonally, it means am
basically owning body autonomyand deciding what works best for
you.
the biggest misconceptions aboutsex positivity is that sex is
(01:50):
good, which is not the case.
Because when you say sex isgood, that assumes that not
having sex as bad.
but you can.
Choose to wait until marriage.
You can be asexual.
You can choose to not simply tonot have sex and you can still
be sex positive.
It's just all about owning yourchoices and owning what you do
(02:13):
with your body.
Because at the end of the day,it's your body and your choice.
And no one should be able totell you what to do with it.
So I think that's, for me,that's mainly what sex
positivity is about, and thenunder all of it, it's like, you
can talk about sex education.
You can talk about, queer sexand like there's so many
different things under that bigumbrella, but the main goal for
(02:35):
me is just like owning who youare and, being inclusive and not
judging anyone else's decision.
Angie Yu (02:42):
I love that message.
Kristy Yee (02:44):
that's so great because I do find that a lot of
times we associate sexualitywith sex.
Like the act of having sex, butthat's not always the case.
Right.
And for, for me, I'm in arelationship I'm in a long-term
relationship, but we're notsexually active.
(03:06):
And sometimes I feel like, Ifeel like there's something
wrong with us or there'ssomething wrong with me, you
know?
And the message that I get fromsociety from media it's, if
you're in love and you're in arelationship, like you're going
to have sex, that's just part ofthe package.
But we have all of that otherstuff in a relationship, just no
(03:31):
sex right now.
Right.
And, and I find it difficult tobe okay with that sometimes, you
know?
Xixi Wang (03:39):
I understand that that's so hard.
And I think even when I was in arelationship, like it was so
common to us.
Like, oh, how many times are wesupposed to be having sex?
Like how many times our averageAmericans having sex and like
comparing how high my sex drivewas to like everyone else in the
world where like, it doesn'treally matter if you're having
(04:00):
all the sex in the world, likedoing a twice a day or like not
doing it like ever at the end ofthe day.
It just it's about communicatingwith your partner and whatever
works best for the two of you.
That's all it is.
That's all that matters at theend of the day.
And society puts a lot ofpressure.
As you said on, especially likeheteronormal normative, couples,
(04:23):
heterosexual couples, sorry.
in monogamous relationships thatthey put a lot of pressure on
them.
Just like sex life in general.
but also your point aboutsexuality and how that doesn't
really correlate to sex.
And I've been learning a lotrecently about like sensuality
(04:45):
as well and how thatdifferentiates from sexuality.
I'm not, I'm not a pro at itwhatsoever.
but I think that differentiationis also interesting and like
being very connected to yoursenses and your body and how
that's different from having sexas well.
Kristy Yee (05:00):
How is it different?
Like based off of what, youknow,
Xixi Wang (05:03):
it can be a lot about just like taking in your
surroundings and being veryconnected to like your breath.
your sense of smell, like touch,all of that.
And it really relates to selflove and, like self appreciation
and really like being aware ofyour surroundings and how your
body relates to like thingsaround you.
Kristy Yee (05:25):
Cool.
This is like very like amindfulness concept around it.
Right.
Being in touch with your sensesand like being present in that
moment and
Xixi Wang (05:33):
yeah,
Kristy Yee (05:34):
being, you know, so you're Asian I'm we all know
that in a lot of Asianhouseholds.
Chinese household.
I'm just gonna say Chinese.
Cause like we're Chinese in thisroom right now.
we don't talk about sex, whetherit's with our family.
Definitely not with our parents,but we don't even talk about sex
(05:55):
with like our cool aunties.
You know what I mean?
Like that even that's rare
Angie Yu (05:59):
Even with friends, like when I was in high school,
I was pretty sure, like I washaving sex with my boyfriend.
and, and I was like, I think hementioned like, yeah, like, I'm
sure your friends are having sexwith their boyfriends.
And I was like, no, no, like youcan't be like, no, like we we've
known each other since we werelike 13.
No, but like, I don't know whythat was such a big deal.
(06:21):
And for me, I was souncomfortable talking about sex
with my friends until I waslike, Like in my mid twenties, I
was finally starting to actuallytalk about sex itself with my
friends.
And before that it was just belike a silent acknowledgement,
you know, like, and I don't knowwhat that
Kristy Yee (06:40):
an acknowledgement.
Xixi Wang (06:41):
I think I have a pretty unique experience as an
Asian kid growing up inVancouver.
Obviously, my parents nevertalked about sex, but I was very
aware of like porn from a veryyoung age and my friends would
talk about porn just likecasually.
And so that kind of rubbed offon me and I was kind of curious
(07:03):
and started, you know, looklooking on, on the internet for
stuff.
And so I think that's honestlywhat led to me being so sex
positive right now when I'm,when I just turned 21, I'm still
trying to figure out like how Ibecame so sex positive when
there was so much shame around.
(07:26):
Sexuality and sex.
And it was, you know, shovedunder the rug.
When I was a kid with my familyyet I've always been very
comfortable with my sexuality.
like especially coming into likemy queerness.
I never really had a coming outphase.
Never really struggled with myqueerness.
And right now, as I'm growingolder, I'm trying to like, I
(07:49):
guess like figure outpsychologically, like why that
was, I visited my parentsrecently a couple months ago
during the pandemic inVancouver.
And, you know, they learned thatI was.
And my first long-termrelationship and decided to kind
(08:10):
of breach the topic of safe sexand wanting to make sure that I
was being safe and not like, youknow, contracting STI.
so that's the first time that mymom like acknowledged like
verbally acknowledged why shenever talked about sex with me
(08:31):
when I was at a young, at ayoung age.
mainly because she didn't wantit to be like a distraction.
And I think with in Chinesefamilies, it's very much like
focused on your studies, like inhigh school and in college and
then worry about everything elselater on.
but yeah, that was aninteresting conversation.
And that's honestly what led meto be inspired to create Asians
(08:54):
for sex positivity.
Kristy Yee (08:56):
What was that conversation like, like walk,
walk us through
Xixi Wang (08:59):
Oh God.
Kristy Yee (09:00):
you can just, I can feel the cranes already.
Xixi Wang (09:04):
This is some shit that I did tell my mom.
So I'm trying to remember theexact specifics, but basically,
obviously it was very much likecircling around the topic.
Like, and obviously it was respoken Mandarin because my
parents don't really speakEnglish.
So I don't really know thecorrect language, but, basically
(09:31):
I went back to Vancouver mainlybecause I was going through a
rough time, like my.
Girlfriend at the time.
And I broke up and didn't wantto stay in New York and just
needed to be around family.
She'd had no clue.
I wasn't a relationship.
And when I was home, that's whenI told her because it was like,
no damage can be done.
I don't want to get into toomany details, but, my mom just
(09:54):
like sat me down and wanted totalk about the relationship in
general and dating in general,because we also never talked
about dating.
And started talking about likewho I should, like, what
characteristics, you know, Ishould look for in a partner,
and, compatibility, all of thatkind of stuff.
(10:14):
and then just kind of dive rightin and was like, are you being
safe or like, how do you knowyou're having safe sex?
stuff like being tested and,yeah, which I also, that's the
thing I've never been to gyno,which I will admit on this
podcast.
mainly because, it just wasnever talked about like, not
really even talked about in sexed at school and didn't know
(10:39):
going to the gyno was a thinguntil I got a lot older,
especially since.
Do not plan to have sex withheterosexual men.
Like I'm not on birth control.
so I guess this looks like acomplicated issue.
At least, at least my mom didn'thave to worry about me being
pregnant,
Angie Yu (10:56):
Yeah.
Xixi Wang (10:57):
but yeah.
we haven't really talked aboutit since, she knows I, as you
can see here for anyonelistening, I paint, sex toys
where I used to paint sex toys.
that was like a whole seriesthat I did.
And.
I remember my mom, like I wasscared what she was going to
think about them.
So like kind of kept themhidden.
(11:18):
And then they were just in myroom and she saw them once and
she just like stood in front ofthem and stare at them and then
like walked away.
And then one day,
Kristy Yee (11:27):
were
Xixi Wang (11:28):
yeah, apparently
Kristy Yee (11:31):
moms know a lot more than we think.
Okay.
Xixi Wang (11:33):
right.
My dad is clueless.
My mom parently again, decidedto sit me down and was like, I
know what these are.
Like, don't think I'm stupid.
And surprisingly, she wasactually very chill about it.
I thought she was going to like,have this whole like, oh my God,
(11:55):
why are you doing this kind ofconversation?
But she was actually very chillabout it.
She was only concerned about thekids.
following me who are not.
to our minors.
Cause I had a whole like artphase of like growing up on
Instagram and like sharing myart, on Instagram publicly.
So, in the past, a lot of myaudience were like teenagers,
(12:17):
but I think that was her mainconcern.
She was like, why are youputting it out in public?
That was for a thing.
Like, you can pay whatever youwant.
But like, I don't really likethat it's on the internet,
Angie Yu (12:28):
I'm so impressed by your relationship with your mom,
even though I know there arecertain things you keep from
her, I'm still pretty like,maybe it's because Christie and
I are from an older generation.
but all of the Chinese friends Ihave who had come out to their
parents were, had not yet comeout to their parents had always
struggled with it a little bit.
And from what you've said, itseems like you have always
(12:50):
really embraced your queerness.
was that the case with yourparents as well?
Like for them it was just like,oh, okay, cool.
Xixi Wang (12:58):
Fuck.
No,
Angie Yu (12:58):
Oh, okay.
Xixi Wang (13:00):
that's definitely something I still continue to
struggle with.
I didn't officially tell my momthat I was queer until I think
maybe I think it was two yearsago.
I've honestly lost track of timebecause of COVID.
But, at first her reaction wasbasically like, no, I don't
(13:21):
believe you.
because I went to an all women'shigh school and I go to an all
women's college and her mainargument is I don't have enough
male friends to like, know whatit feels like to have feelings
for a guy.
and so even though like, even inthat talk, when I was back in
(13:42):
Vancouver about, you know,finding a partner, like she
assumed.
That I'll be with a guy oralways uses like him.
whenever talking about beingwith a partner, even though she
knows that my first relationshipwas with a woman, so, and my dad
is also kind of on the sametrain.
(14:04):
Like he will just support my mombut yeah, they're kind of like,
you should, at least, you know,you should try having a
relationship with a guy, butalso you're not also be missing
out, but then I'm like, that'skind of hypocritical because you
wouldn't say that if I wasstraight,
Angie Yu (14:24):
Yeah.
Sorry.
You had to and are still goingthrough that.
That is really hard.
Do you find it easier havingthat?
Boundary with her becauseyou're, you're on the other side
of the continent.
So it's like, you don't have tohave this pressure of always
keeping her up to date with yourlife.
Xixi Wang (14:43):
no, for sure.
I think when I was back inVancouver, obviously we had a
lot of tough conversations withsort of, which was great, but we
were also living in a very smallapartment together, which
brought up a lot of likeemotions from the past.
And I was in high school.
I think I've had a very toughrelationship with my parents
(15:04):
ever since I was a kid.
Just like with academics andjust like high expectations and
a lot of pressure that I feltfrom them.
and then college for me was veryfreeing in that.
Like, I felt like I could makemy own decisions and didn't
always have to like go to themif I wanted to go out, et
cetera, et cetera.
but when I was back inVancouver, I was kind of feeling
(15:26):
those things again and feelinglike a high schooler kind of
stuck, especially during apandemic in Vancouver.
it was December.
So like things were still, youknow, not great with COVID.
So kind of being home every dayand being stuck with them and
not really doing much just, wekind of get gotten back into the
rhythm of like having argumentsand like not really getting
(15:48):
along, But whenever I'm in NewYork and there, you know, in
Canada or if they're in China,like we usually do a lot better
and we catch up once every weekjust to we chat.
and I don't really, I don't, Iobviously don't tell them
everything that's going on in mylife and I like having that
distance.
but I think we're also at apoint where we're acknowledging
(16:10):
that we have very different,like cultural values and there's
a cultural difference betweenus.
And there's also kind of alanguage barrier.
because my Mandarin, even thoughit's kind of good, like it's not
the best.
so.
Definitely my relationship withmy parents is definitely a lot
better than what it used to be,but we're still trying to have
(16:33):
more tough conversations withone another and kind of see each
other's perspectives because atthe end of the day, I know that
they just want the best for me,but sometimes it's kind of hard
to, you know, be on the samepage.
Kristy Yee (16:46):
Totally.
I totally, I completely relateto the language barrier thing
because I'm the same with mymom.
My Cantonese is definitely notas good as it used to be because
TVB sucks now.
So I cannot brush up on my Cantodrama.
So it's all gone down the drainand, and it's, it's hard because
(17:10):
when you're in close proximitywith them, they see a lot more.
And so there's more for them tojudge and nitpick.
And then that gets on yournerves because you're like lay
off.
I'm a, I'm a full grown adultman, you
Xixi Wang (17:26):
Yeah, right?
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (17:29):
So I totally relate you mentioned like you had a
tough relationship with themduring high school and a big
part of it is just like theenvironment, your physical
living environment with them.
and now you've moved out, butwe're still working on having
these tough conversationsbecause they're necessary, you
know, it helps.
Build better connections withour parents.
(17:50):
What kind of like, if at all,any advice on how to even start
a tough conversation with yourparents?
Like, do you just like sit themdown and be like, Hey mom and
dad, I got some shit to tellyou.
Like what, what, what happens?
What, what do you do?
Xixi Wang (18:06):
I'm honestly lucky in the sense that my, especially my
mom, she wants to have thosetough conversations.
Sometimes she's like, We'regoing to sit down, and, you
know, I'm going to call you atthis time or we're going to talk
about something that's going onin the world, and I want to hear
your thoughts, like, oh, okay.
(18:27):
That's a lot.
Kristy Yee (18:28):
Nice.
Xixi Wang (18:28):
but yeah, like she wants, my mom is very like
extroverted, loves talking,loves, like hanging out with
friends.
and she loves just like talkingwith me about literally whatever
is going on.
so I've personally, I'vestruggled with being like, oh, I
want to talk to you about thisbecause I'm still trying to, you
(18:49):
know, see that having thatdiscussion is very helpful and
useful and we'll get, we'lleventually get to a point where
we have a better relationship.
But I think for a long time,like we got into a pattern where
those conversations always ledto.
Like an argument of some sort orlike screaming or whatever.
(19:12):
but I, I'm also, I thought I'mcurrently part of the
conversationalist.
that's what I, I'm a graphicdesigner for them.
And they've their whole goal isabout breaking open echo
chambers and seeing otherpeople's point of views, and
learning to respect thoseopinions and not necessarily
(19:33):
changing what you think, butjust realizing that there are
people out there who think verydifferently and are on the
opposite side of the spectrum.
But in order to unify the world,like we have to be able to see
those views and accept thoseviews as well.
So.
Being a part of that team hasreally opened my mind to
listening to others, like havingan open mind and really being
(19:57):
empathetic to people whereverthey're coming from.
We all have very differentexperiences.
And I think I'm starting morewhen I'm talking with my mom to
really try and like remindmyself that she is a lot older
and she's from a differentgeneration, but there are
(20:17):
obviously pros and cons to that.
Like she might not necessarilyunderstand, you know, the lingo
that I use or like some of, youknow, the trends of this
generation or like, thepolitical ideologies of my
generation.
But at the end of the day, likeshe is trying her best.
And I do see that and I doreally appreciate that.
(20:37):
And again, like I said before,like she just wants the best for
me and is trying to see my pointof view as well.
So as long as.
As we're just trying to be therefor one another and help each
other grow.
Like that sounds so cheesy, butyeah.
I just try to remind myself ofthat.
Kristy Yee (21:00):
What would you say it would be like one of the
toughest conversations you'vehad to had with your mom or.
Xixi Wang (21:12):
Wow.
I have to think.
I mean, I think probably mentalhealth.
again, had this conversation.
Well, I was in Canada a fewmonths ago.
We really impact a lot of shit.
Kristy Yee (21:27):
It's a different topic.
Let's talk about sex.
And then tomorrow we're going totalk about mental health.
And then the next day we'regoing to talk about political
ideology.
Xixi Wang (21:35):
Oh
Kristy Yee (21:36):
That's some heavy shit, man.
That's not a vacation.
Xixi Wang (21:39):
yeah, I was going through a lot mentally and I had
never told, as I said before,like I struggled a lot while I
was in high school with therelationship with my parents and
was also going through a lotmentally.
And I thought it was normal as,you know, a daughter of, in an
Asian family and a teenager.
I thought it was totally normal,I think it's like very
(21:59):
normalized in Asian householdsto not talk about mental health,
to think that it's somethingthat, you know, we can overcome
and it's not important.
And, you know, as long as youwork hard and you put an effort,
like you should be fine.
so I was always very scared totalk about what I was going
through mentally.
And when I was in Canada, itstarted to feel like those
(22:24):
struggles that I had earlierwere resurfacing, or at least
something had triggered themagain.
So it was kind of just out ofnowhere that I just admitted to
my parents, that when I wasyounger, I had, you know,
(22:44):
suicidal thoughts and I wasvery, I felt.
Unsafe is not the right word,just like very alone when I was
around them.
And didn't feel like theyunderstood me.
And that's why when I was a kid,like I, I loved school so much
school was like my safe place.
(23:05):
I love being with my friends, myteachers, but didn't really like
coming home.
it just, yeah, I just kind of,it was in the middle of an
argument.
I kind of just blew up and I,and it was just like, you know,
this was a thing and it was justa very, very hard conversation
for, especially me and my mom,because we were both emotional.
she was struggling with, youknow, me seeming ungrateful and
(23:30):
me, you know, always kind ofbeing passive aggressive at her
and like not opening up a lot ofthe times.
meanwhile, I was in thishorrible place of like, Just
after a breakup and then havingthese triggering thoughts and
like not being emotionally ormentally stable.
but yeah, that happened.
(23:50):
And honestly, after that, ithasn't really been addressed,
which is a little bit sad.
because I, I still think theydon't really know how to talk
about mental health.
and you know, what resources areout there.
And I guess that's just like alittle bit unfortunate, but
(24:10):
yeah, that was, that was a lot.
Angie Yu (24:14):
Well, thank you for, thank you for sharing that with
us, because, and for relivingthat, cause I'm sure it was just
as intense as when you had totell your parents that like I
have gone through somethingsimilar and telling my parents
that I had a suicidal incidentwhen I was younger.
And, I think the first thing Ifeel as the person communicating
(24:37):
that to your own parents,especially immigrant parents,
it's like, oh, you did all thisstuff to try to make my life
better.
I don't even want it.
You know what I mean?
So aside like big thing ofdisappointment and just not
wanting to disappoint ourparents, I think is like a huge
thing.
And like, talking about mentalhealth among our immigrant
(24:57):
parents, like they have so muchtrauma themselves that they
bottle up inside.
Y, I remember reading about thiswhen I was in like maybe in
university, something wheremaybe even high school, about
how, immigrant parents, like,especially men here in Vancouver
had the highest rate of suicide.
And I was like, wait, what?
(25:19):
That's like, my parents that'slike my dad, like, why doesn't
anybody talk about it?
And even, I only just rememberthis now, because after I read
that, I was just like, oh, thatsucks.
And I never talked about itagain.
Did I ask my parents about it?
I've never heard it talked aboutever again.
And it's like, okay, clearlythere's like something going on.
(25:40):
And there's clearly a need forthat generation to go through,
to, to get some mental healthsupport.
But again, because of ourculture is just so like, Hey,
let's slow.
Is that a rug?
Let's sweep under it?
Xixi Wang (25:54):
There was definitely a better way to go about it.
And fully like the day after bywe it's just like silent
treatment between me and my mom
Angie Yu (26:03):
oh,
Xixi Wang (26:04):
just, weren't talking to one another.
Um, Don was like, maybe youshould say something or like do
something or like take her outshopping.
And so it was like an awkwardperiod, but
Angie Yu (26:15):
Oh, my God, my dad did that too.
Like when my mom and I weren'ttalking, he like messaged me and
said some very wise words.
And I was like, who are you?
Like, is
Xixi Wang (26:25):
no, that's what my dad did.
Angie Yu (26:27):
Like my dad, my dad's the same as your dad.
Like, he just does whatever mymom tells him to do.
And like, yeah, he has like, hedoes it.
So when my mom and I weren'ttalking, yeah.
He just like sent me a couplemessages and I'm like, who the
fuck are you?
Like, where has this been?
My whole life, Oh, my God.
(26:48):
That's like a whole other issueof emotionally unavailable
Chinese fathers.
He said, just like you, your momis quite spoiled.
And I was like, okay, is thissupposed to make me?
He's like, you know, she's theyoungest.
And she was pretty spoiled too.
So she always got her way.
And you and your mom are bothvery headstrong and you're very
(27:08):
similar.
you, you both have, have adifficulty seeing another
person's perspective.
And it was
Kristy Yee (27:16):
He's just burning you
Angie Yu (27:18):
it was like so direct, can't remember exactly the rest
of what he said, but of coursethe words that he used, you
know, like I can tell like, oh,oh, he's an educated man.
And then after that it actuallydid, soften me up a bit.
And and I apologize to my momand then she apologized too,
Xixi Wang (27:35):
Yeah.
That's literally what happenedwith me and my mom.
That's so funny.
Kristy Yee (27:41):
China dad's school that they're both like trained
in because they're reacting thesame.
Angie Yu (27:47):
That's so good.
But the thing is like they careand you know what, it was
actually from my dad's messagedthat I'm like, oh, damn, he
actually cares a lot about meand my mom, which softened me up
a bit.
Cause it always, for me alwaysfelt like it was like a
struggle, like a tug of warbetween me and my mom.
And then when my dadintercepted, I was like, oh,
there's this other person in ourfamily.
Xixi Wang (28:07):
I so relate to that.
Angie Yu (28:09):
My psychiatrist, the one who diagnosed me with
bipolar.
She was like a white lady.
And, she was like, oh, like,tell me more about your
childhood.
What's your relationship withyour parents?
Like, and then I told her aboutmy dad, like, yeah, like he's a
great person, very educated, buthe never really like, cared that
much about money.
So he just does his own thing.
(28:29):
Like, you know, never reallybeen around that much, like
emotionally.
And I'm like, yeah, just, youknow, typical Chinese dad.
And I just talked about as if itwas like so normal and she's
like, oh, that must have beenreally hard.
And I was like, no, that's fine.
That's just what every Chinesedad is like, but then like the
sympathy in her, in her voicemade me go, is it fine?
(28:53):
Like, is it fine?
Yeah.
That's still something I haven'tquite gotten to the bottom of
yet.
I do think that a lot of.
relationships with dads, notjust Chinese community, but in
general, it's very complicatedbecause of, you know,
patriarchy, et cetera, etcetera.
But I digress.
Kristy Yee (29:11):
relationships, relationships with parents
themselves are reallycomplicated, right?
Because like, There are a sourceof a lot of trauma, but then
they also do it unknowinglybecause they didn't know any
better themselves.
And now we're at a place wherecollectively the newer
(29:31):
generation is more educated.
We're like so much more woke.
And, and now it's almost likeour turn to educate and then
forgive.
And then also understand thatlayer of trauma that has been
induced on us.
And how can we recover from thatwithout putting blame on our
parents?
Like there's a lot of workaround that.
Angie Yu (29:53):
Really well said.
I think the forgiveness part ishuge.
I think forgiving our parents isone of the biggest hurdles of
like, for me going throughtherapy, one of the biggest
thing was forgiving my parents.
And now I have this like newfound thankfulness and
gratefulness for my parents.
Like, I always knew that, like Ihad to be grateful because, you
(30:15):
know, they left another countryand they left all their family
and friends to move here for abetter future, especially for
me.
So I'm like, why have to begrateful?
Like I have to be thankful, butof course there were all these
like underlying resentments,like, Hey, I developed all these
like issues and anxiety andsocial anxiety because of the
way I had adapted to being like,like being at home all the time
(30:38):
when we first moved here aloneand not being able to go out
because it's technically illegalto be at home by myself kind of
thing.
Like all that stuff wasunprocessed.
So I was, I had moved on fromthose.
Small resentful moments.
And, but the, but the whole ideaof like, Hey, you have to be
grateful for your immigrantparents just overpowered the,
(31:03):
the rationale to be like, oh, Ineed to work through this
resentment.
So I think forgiveness is like ahuge, huge step in re like
reconciling with our parents.
Yeah.
Cause like Christie, like yousaid, they don't do it on
purpose and CC, like you said,they just want the best for us.
And when your mom, when you sayyour mom's biggest concern was
like, oh, but then you'reshowing these to like teenagers.
(31:25):
Cause like she just doesn't wantto get you in trouble.
She just doesn't want you to bein trouble.
Like that's so sweet.
She wasn't like, Hey, no, don'tdraw these, but pleasure toys.
just, you know, make sure theteenagers don't, you know, get
you in trouble or whatever.
Yeah.
Xixi Wang (31:50):
Forgiveness is definitely very important.
And then it also can come andlike baby steps.
I think I'm definitely still onthat road of like gaining
maturity and gaining forgivenessfor my parents.
But one thing that my mom keepsbringing up is my relationship
with piano and with music.
it's very common for, you know,Asian kids to pick up an
(32:12):
instrument or like be forced toplay an instrument by their
parents.
and I was put in piano classesfrom a very young age, but like
very seriously.
I was a competitive pianist formost of my life.
did like competitions touredaround the world was in a F like
company did festivals and all ofthem played with orchestras.
(32:34):
But it was never something thatI signed up.
I it's like the trauma that's inmy head is that like, I play
very, like clearly remember meas a kid, practicing piano, like
being kind of my mom telling methat I have to practice one to
two hours every day.
(32:55):
And me just like sitting at thepiano, playing my scales and
arpeggios and whatever the fuck.
And like literally literallycrying while I practice the
piano because I had no otheroption and telling my mom, like,
I don't want to do this anymore.
Like I want to quit.
(33:15):
And like, I, it's not, you know,I don't want to do this.
And she was like, when you'reolder, you'll be thankful.
You'll be grateful that we putyou in piano classes.
and now I'm 21.
I am grateful.
moral of the story, because Imean, this is my piano right
here.
(33:35):
it's something that I genuinely,like, I don't really play it
anymore, but I play it forenjoyment and personal, just
like happiness, but I would saylike my piano skills are pretty
good and that's something peopleare always very impressed by.
and it does make me like, kindof like an ego boost, but it's
(33:57):
something that,
Angie Yu (33:58):
You worked hard for it.
You cried as a toddler becauseof it.
Kristy Yee (34:01):
Yeah, it's a skill that you had built through lots
of little tears.
Xixi Wang (34:05):
Yeah.
After all of those hours ofpracticing, like I know I'll
probably always be able to pickup sheet music and be able to
play the piano.
So.
Angie Yu (34:13):
Yeah,
Xixi Wang (34:14):
Even though I'm not going to become a professional
pianist or anything.
It's definitely something thathas brought me a lot of joy and
comfort.
And, you know, I've met a lot offriends through, you know, doing
music at college or whatever.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (34:28):
I think this is a really good example of how
sometimes things aren't alwaysblack and white, like what our
parents do to us.
Aren't always positive ornegative, you know, it's not one
or the other in this situation.
What I'm hearing is like, therewas a lot of good things that
came out of the struggle, right?
(34:48):
Like you, you have this, youhave piano in your life.
You have the skill for every.
And, you know, you're able tofind joy from music, wherever
you go, anywhere in the worldthat you go, and there's a piano
there.
You're able to bring joy toyourself and others.
And that is a huge gift.
And that's something that youmight not have realized when
you're a kid, because yourparents force you to do the
(35:10):
thing and you didn't see thevalue in it.
But then on the other side ofthe story, it was, it's also
like my parents forced me to dothis thing without my consent at
all, without considering what Iactually wanted to do it,
there's a level of, I don't wantto say like restriction, like
you're, you're caged in, youknow, like there is no freedom.
(35:32):
There is no, there's no choiceand that can be very
suffocating.
Xixi Wang (35:39):
for sure.
Kristy Yee (35:41):
and so that in itself is also trauma, you know?
So in this one incidentincident, this case, this story.
I think both trauma is beingrepresented, but also gratitude
is being represented from thesame story.
And that can happen.
You know, I think sometimes wehear stories.
It's either like the supertragic, sad thing.
(36:01):
And then we like demonizesomeone for it, or it's like,
oh, this, this like amazingjourney that this person went
on.
And now I'm so grateful, youknow, it's, it's, there's so
much polarization sometimes whenwe think of stories, but there
can be both.
Xixi Wang (36:19):
Yeah, I definitely, for a lot, most of my life, as
you can imagine, thought of itas a mainly negative thing.
And, you know, I started talkingto a lot of like, especially my
white friends who about likelife trauma, like parent trauma,
like childhood trauma, whatever,and like telling them how I was
involved in basically everyextracurricular imaginable, and
(36:40):
was taught at a very young ageto like work my ass off and to
not really like go out and playwith friends, but like I should
be working hard.
and you know, I did ballet didsports.
I did piano.
I did flute and.
So my F I have a lot of friendswho envy me and who, you know,
weren't in those music classesand doesn't know how to play an
instrument and say to me like,oh, I wish I knew how to play an
(37:02):
instrument.
Like, I wish I parents put me inballet classes or, you know, you
know, put me in piano classes.
Like, that's not reallysomething you can pick up when
you're, you know, in the middleof high school.
So that I think talking toothers about that has also
opened my mind to the positiveaspect of it.
Kristy Yee (37:22):
and I, and, and I think this is also an example of
how everybody's, um, I don'twant to say resiliency, but like
everybody's way of God.
What am I trying to say?
People will have differentoutcomes, even if someone
(37:43):
applied the same formula.
So if a parent apply the sameformula to raising this kid,
right, they could come out liketotally different from another
kid, even though both parentsapplied the same structure or
the same teaching methods.
And it just goes to show likehow different we are just as
human beings, you know?
(38:03):
Yeah.
Okay.
To wrap up today's conversation,I think, oh my goodness.
We talked about so many things.
We talked about, like sexpositivity.
We touched on a little bit aboutyour, your queerness and how you
had discussions with yourparents, and then just even like
the struggles with having a goodrelationship and building a good
(38:26):
relationship with your parentsall the way from high school to
where you are now.
Right.
with, you know, mental health issomething that we just don't
talk about, I'm curious to know,and something to leave for our
poop troops for this episode iswhat is something that you are
doing right now to try toimprove your own mental health?
Xixi Wang (38:46):
Hmm, good question.
I think especially the summer,as things have kind of gotten a
little bit more normal, I guess,like they're not really normal,
but more normal than they weremonths ago.
as, and as I'm entering mysenior year of college, I've
been very wary of self care andespecially my mental health,
(39:06):
because my mental health hasbeen just like down the drain
since COVID.
so I started kind ofimplementing for myself a
morning routine.
I think it's all just about likesmall things that you do morning
routine, like working out, I'vealso had a tough relationship
with like my body appearance.
So I'm working out and likestrength training.
(39:27):
I'm like doing strength trainingwith one of my friends.
And that has been really fun,just like, and also spending
more time with my friends andpeople who I've had been seen in
a really long time and just likecarving that time out for myself
and to spend that time withpeople who I love and who care
about me.
and really just like puttingmyself first.
(39:48):
I think that's something thatI'm trying to actively do every
day and also doing things thatit will bring you joy and
happiness.
I think it's, it's really hardto, especially now I think a lot
of people in my generation arepretty much like workaholics and
(40:09):
you know, are doing a millionthings at once, even though.
Angie Yu (40:12):
has a side hustle in your generation.
Xixi Wang (40:15):
Yeah.
but it's important to kind oflet yourself breathe and like
keep yourself in check.
And I think personally, I alwaysnotice if I work too hard, like
there's going to be a pointwhere I just kind of break down.
so knowing how, how much is toomuch, and then always making
sure that I'm doing at least onething a day, that brings me a
(40:38):
little bit of happiness.
That's not work-related.
So whether that's like, likegetting seamless order to my
apartment or seeing a friend whoI haven't seen in a while, or
watching binge watching aNetflix show, small things like
that, they'll just make you morecalm and like, feel more in
(40:58):
tuned with yourself.
Always help.
Kristy Yee (41:01):
It was great to have you on the show CC,
Xixi Wang (41:04):
Thank you so much.
I love this conversation so muchand it was an honor.
Kristy Yee (41:08):
going to link everything that you had
mentioned in the show notes,including your Instagram page,
Asian for sex positivity.
And I just lost it.
Angie Yu (41:17):
Yeah, well, there you have a kid.
No, I'm just kidding.
well, for those who have stayedwith us until this point in the
episode, hope you had a greattime listening to this.
we were joined by CC Wong, she'sthis super impressive girl from,
I guess you're from New York.
Yeah.
New York was some roots inVancouver.
Yeah.
So check her out on Asian forsex positivity.
(41:40):
Do you have any personal blogsor websites or Instagram you
want to share?
Xixi Wang (41:45):
I have an art account.
That's a CC Wang artists whereyou can find a lot of my
paintings and drawings and whatnot.
Kristy Yee (41:52):
Or the, or the sex toy paintings still on the idea
account.
Xixi Wang (41:58):
Yes, they are.
Kristy Yee (41:58):
Okay.
So definitely link that in theshow notes.
I want to check some of thatshit
Angie Yu (42:02):
Yeah.
We can see some of it behind CCright now and they look
incredible.
Like I am so impressed by you.
Like 21.
You can play the piano reallywell.
You can paint.
Awesome.
Just so great to
Xixi Wang (42:13):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
I love, I love this.
Just like us talking aboutimportant things and like stuff
that shit we don't tell her momfor stuff that we have told her
mom.
Angie Yu (42:23):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (42:25):
And that's important too, because now it's like,
another person might be like,oh, I, I haven't come up with,
come out to my mom yet.
Right.
Or like, I haven't told themthat I had suicidal ideations
before and hearing that, oh,somebody has done this and talk
to their very Chinese parentsabout it.
You know, like maybe it's okay.
(42:45):
Maybe my parents might react ina different way than what I had
expected kind of a thing.
And so that's why it's soimportant to have these
conversations and put the shiton the internet so that others
can feel more, more inspired andmore empowered to do the same as
well.
Xixi Wang (43:02):
Exactly.
I love the lights.
Yeah.
(00:27):
Welcome back to another episodeof shit.
We don't tell mom where we talkabout uncomfortable things.
Today.
We have a special guest.
Her name is Sisi Wang.
CC was raised in Vancouver,Canada, but now they are living
in New York for the last eightyears they're super into
painting and dancing, and theywant to learn how to tattoo and
(00:48):
have an art gallery one day andthinking about becoming a
sexologist, they are also thefounder of Asians for sex
positivity.
It's an Instagram page createdto deconstruct fetish, ization,
dismantling sexual shame, andwelcoming all sexualities and
gender identity.
So welcome CC to the show.
Xixi Wang (01:09):
Hi.
thank you so much for having meso honored to be here.
I've been listening to y'all'spodcast for a little bit now, so
I'm really excited.
Kristy Yee (01:18):
Nice cC, you're all about like promoting sex
positive.
That's like your thing, right?
What is, what does that mean toyou?
Xixi Wang (01:28):
Oh, what a big question.
I mean, a lot of differentthings.
I think sex positivity means somany different things to
different people, but to mepersonally, it means am
basically owning body autonomyand deciding what works best for
you.
the biggest misconceptions aboutsex positivity is that sex is
(01:50):
good, which is not the case.
Because when you say sex isgood, that assumes that not
having sex as bad.
but you can.
Choose to wait until marriage.
You can be asexual.
You can choose to not simply tonot have sex and you can still
be sex positive.
It's just all about owning yourchoices and owning what you do
(02:13):
with your body.
Because at the end of the day,it's your body and your choice.
And no one should be able totell you what to do with it.
So I think that's, for me,that's mainly what sex
positivity is about, and thenunder all of it, it's like, you
can talk about sex education.
You can talk about, queer sexand like there's so many
different things under that bigumbrella, but the main goal for
(02:35):
me is just like owning who youare and, being inclusive and not
judging anyone else's decision.
Angie Yu (02:42):
I love that message.
Kristy Yee (02:44):
that's so great because I do find that a lot of
times we associate sexualitywith sex.
Like the act of having sex, butthat's not always the case.
Right.
And for, for me, I'm in arelationship I'm in a long-term
relationship, but we're notsexually active.
(03:06):
And sometimes I feel like, Ifeel like there's something
wrong with us or there'ssomething wrong with me, you
know?
And the message that I get fromsociety from media it's, if
you're in love and you're in arelationship, like you're going
to have sex, that's just part ofthe package.
But we have all of that otherstuff in a relationship, just no
(03:31):
sex right now.
Right.
And, and I find it difficult tobe okay with that sometimes, you
know?
Xixi Wang (03:39):
I understand that that's so hard.
And I think even when I was in arelationship, like it was so
common to us.
Like, oh, how many times are wesupposed to be having sex?
Like how many times our averageAmericans having sex and like
comparing how high my sex drivewas to like everyone else in the
world where like, it doesn'treally matter if you're having
(04:00):
all the sex in the world, likedoing a twice a day or like not
doing it like ever at the end ofthe day.
It just it's about communicatingwith your partner and whatever
works best for the two of you.
That's all it is.
That's all that matters at theend of the day.
And society puts a lot ofpressure.
As you said on, especially likeheteronormal normative, couples,
(04:23):
heterosexual couples, sorry.
in monogamous relationships thatthey put a lot of pressure on
them.
Just like sex life in general.
but also your point aboutsexuality and how that doesn't
really correlate to sex.
And I've been learning a lotrecently about like sensuality
(04:45):
as well and how thatdifferentiates from sexuality.
I'm not, I'm not a pro at itwhatsoever.
but I think that differentiationis also interesting and like
being very connected to yoursenses and your body and how
that's different from having sexas well.
Kristy Yee (05:00):
How is it different?
Like based off of what, youknow,
Xixi Wang (05:03):
it can be a lot about just like taking in your
surroundings and being veryconnected to like your breath.
your sense of smell, like touch,all of that.
And it really relates to selflove and, like self appreciation
and really like being aware ofyour surroundings and how your
body relates to like thingsaround you.
Kristy Yee (05:25):
Cool.
This is like very like amindfulness concept around it.
Right.
Being in touch with your sensesand like being present in that
moment and
Xixi Wang (05:33):
yeah,
Kristy Yee (05:34):
being, you know, so you're Asian I'm we all know
that in a lot of Asianhouseholds.
Chinese household.
I'm just gonna say Chinese.
Cause like we're Chinese in thisroom right now.
we don't talk about sex, whetherit's with our family.
Definitely not with our parents,but we don't even talk about sex
(05:55):
with like our cool aunties.
You know what I mean?
Like that even that's rare
Angie Yu (05:59):
Even with friends, like when I was in high school,
I was pretty sure, like I washaving sex with my boyfriend.
and, and I was like, I think hementioned like, yeah, like, I'm
sure your friends are having sexwith their boyfriends.
And I was like, no, no, like youcan't be like, no, like we we've
known each other since we werelike 13.
No, but like, I don't know whythat was such a big deal.
(06:21):
And for me, I was souncomfortable talking about sex
with my friends until I waslike, Like in my mid twenties, I
was finally starting to actuallytalk about sex itself with my
friends.
And before that it was just belike a silent acknowledgement,
you know, like, and I don't knowwhat that
Kristy Yee (06:40):
an acknowledgement.
Xixi Wang (06:41):
I think I have a pretty unique experience as an
Asian kid growing up inVancouver.
Obviously, my parents nevertalked about sex, but I was very
aware of like porn from a veryyoung age and my friends would
talk about porn just likecasually.
And so that kind of rubbed offon me and I was kind of curious
(07:03):
and started, you know, looklooking on, on the internet for
stuff.
And so I think that's honestlywhat led to me being so sex
positive right now when I'm,when I just turned 21, I'm still
trying to figure out like how Ibecame so sex positive when
there was so much shame around.
(07:26):
Sexuality and sex.
And it was, you know, shovedunder the rug.
When I was a kid with my familyyet I've always been very
comfortable with my sexuality.
like especially coming into likemy queerness.
I never really had a coming outphase.
Never really struggled with myqueerness.
And right now, as I'm growingolder, I'm trying to like, I
(07:49):
guess like figure outpsychologically, like why that
was, I visited my parentsrecently a couple months ago
during the pandemic inVancouver.
And, you know, they learned thatI was.
And my first long-termrelationship and decided to kind
(08:10):
of breach the topic of safe sexand wanting to make sure that I
was being safe and not like, youknow, contracting STI.
so that's the first time that mymom like acknowledged like
verbally acknowledged why shenever talked about sex with me
(08:31):
when I was at a young, at ayoung age.
mainly because she didn't wantit to be like a distraction.
And I think with in Chinesefamilies, it's very much like
focused on your studies, like inhigh school and in college and
then worry about everything elselater on.
but yeah, that was aninteresting conversation.
And that's honestly what led meto be inspired to create Asians
(08:54):
for sex positivity.
Kristy Yee (08:56):
What was that conversation like, like walk,
walk us through
Xixi Wang (08:59):
Oh God.
Kristy Yee (09:00):
you can just, I can feel the cranes already.
Xixi Wang (09:04):
This is some shit that I did tell my mom.
So I'm trying to remember theexact specifics, but basically,
obviously it was very much likecircling around the topic.
Like, and obviously it was respoken Mandarin because my
parents don't really speakEnglish.
So I don't really know thecorrect language, but, basically
(09:31):
I went back to Vancouver mainlybecause I was going through a
rough time, like my.
Girlfriend at the time.
And I broke up and didn't wantto stay in New York and just
needed to be around family.
She'd had no clue.
I wasn't a relationship.
And when I was home, that's whenI told her because it was like,
no damage can be done.
I don't want to get into toomany details, but, my mom just
(09:54):
like sat me down and wanted totalk about the relationship in
general and dating in general,because we also never talked
about dating.
And started talking about likewho I should, like, what
characteristics, you know, Ishould look for in a partner,
and, compatibility, all of thatkind of stuff.
(10:14):
and then just kind of dive rightin and was like, are you being
safe or like, how do you knowyou're having safe sex?
stuff like being tested and,yeah, which I also, that's the
thing I've never been to gyno,which I will admit on this
podcast.
mainly because, it just wasnever talked about like, not
really even talked about in sexed at school and didn't know
(10:39):
going to the gyno was a thinguntil I got a lot older,
especially since.
Do not plan to have sex withheterosexual men.
Like I'm not on birth control.
so I guess this looks like acomplicated issue.
At least, at least my mom didn'thave to worry about me being
pregnant,
Angie Yu (10:56):
Yeah.
Xixi Wang (10:57):
but yeah.
we haven't really talked aboutit since, she knows I, as you
can see here for anyonelistening, I paint, sex toys
where I used to paint sex toys.
that was like a whole seriesthat I did.
And.
I remember my mom, like I wasscared what she was going to
think about them.
So like kind of kept themhidden.
(11:18):
And then they were just in myroom and she saw them once and
she just like stood in front ofthem and stare at them and then
like walked away.
And then one day,
Kristy Yee (11:27):
were
Xixi Wang (11:28):
yeah, apparently
Kristy Yee (11:31):
moms know a lot more than we think.
Okay.
Xixi Wang (11:33):
right.
My dad is clueless.
My mom parently again, decidedto sit me down and was like, I
know what these are.
Like, don't think I'm stupid.
And surprisingly, she wasactually very chill about it.
I thought she was going to like,have this whole like, oh my God,
(11:55):
why are you doing this kind ofconversation?
But she was actually very chillabout it.
She was only concerned about thekids.
following me who are not.
to our minors.
Cause I had a whole like artphase of like growing up on
Instagram and like sharing myart, on Instagram publicly.
So, in the past, a lot of myaudience were like teenagers,
(12:17):
but I think that was her mainconcern.
She was like, why are youputting it out in public?
That was for a thing.
Like, you can pay whatever youwant.
But like, I don't really likethat it's on the internet,
Angie Yu (12:28):
I'm so impressed by your relationship with your mom,
even though I know there arecertain things you keep from
her, I'm still pretty like,maybe it's because Christie and
I are from an older generation.
but all of the Chinese friends Ihave who had come out to their
parents were, had not yet comeout to their parents had always
struggled with it a little bit.
And from what you've said, itseems like you have always
(12:50):
really embraced your queerness.
was that the case with yourparents as well?
Like for them it was just like,oh, okay, cool.
Xixi Wang (12:58):
Fuck.
No,
Angie Yu (12:58):
Oh, okay.
Xixi Wang (13:00):
that's definitely something I still continue to
struggle with.
I didn't officially tell my momthat I was queer until I think
maybe I think it was two yearsago.
I've honestly lost track of timebecause of COVID.
But, at first her reaction wasbasically like, no, I don't
(13:21):
believe you.
because I went to an all women'shigh school and I go to an all
women's college and her mainargument is I don't have enough
male friends to like, know whatit feels like to have feelings
for a guy.
and so even though like, even inthat talk, when I was back in
(13:42):
Vancouver about, you know,finding a partner, like she
assumed.
That I'll be with a guy oralways uses like him.
whenever talking about beingwith a partner, even though she
knows that my first relationshipwas with a woman, so, and my dad
is also kind of on the sametrain.
(14:04):
Like he will just support my mombut yeah, they're kind of like,
you should, at least, you know,you should try having a
relationship with a guy, butalso you're not also be missing
out, but then I'm like, that'skind of hypocritical because you
wouldn't say that if I wasstraight,
Angie Yu (14:24):
Yeah.
Sorry.
You had to and are still goingthrough that.
That is really hard.
Do you find it easier havingthat?
Boundary with her becauseyou're, you're on the other side
of the continent.
So it's like, you don't have tohave this pressure of always
keeping her up to date with yourlife.
Xixi Wang (14:43):
no, for sure.
I think when I was back inVancouver, obviously we had a
lot of tough conversations withsort of, which was great, but we
were also living in a very smallapartment together, which
brought up a lot of likeemotions from the past.
And I was in high school.
I think I've had a very toughrelationship with my parents
(15:04):
ever since I was a kid.
Just like with academics andjust like high expectations and
a lot of pressure that I feltfrom them.
and then college for me was veryfreeing in that.
Like, I felt like I could makemy own decisions and didn't
always have to like go to themif I wanted to go out, et
cetera, et cetera.
but when I was back inVancouver, I was kind of feeling
(15:26):
those things again and feelinglike a high schooler kind of
stuck, especially during apandemic in Vancouver.
it was December.
So like things were still, youknow, not great with COVID.
So kind of being home every dayand being stuck with them and
not really doing much just, wekind of get gotten back into the
rhythm of like having argumentsand like not really getting
(15:48):
along, But whenever I'm in NewYork and there, you know, in
Canada or if they're in China,like we usually do a lot better
and we catch up once every weekjust to we chat.
and I don't really, I don't, Iobviously don't tell them
everything that's going on in mylife and I like having that
distance.
but I think we're also at apoint where we're acknowledging
(16:10):
that we have very different,like cultural values and there's
a cultural difference betweenus.
And there's also kind of alanguage barrier.
because my Mandarin, even thoughit's kind of good, like it's not
the best.
so.
Definitely my relationship withmy parents is definitely a lot
better than what it used to be,but we're still trying to have
(16:33):
more tough conversations withone another and kind of see each
other's perspectives because atthe end of the day, I know that
they just want the best for me,but sometimes it's kind of hard
to, you know, be on the samepage.
Kristy Yee (16:46):
Totally.
I totally, I completely relateto the language barrier thing
because I'm the same with mymom.
My Cantonese is definitely notas good as it used to be because
TVB sucks now.
So I cannot brush up on my Cantodrama.
So it's all gone down the drainand, and it's, it's hard because
(17:10):
when you're in close proximitywith them, they see a lot more.
And so there's more for them tojudge and nitpick.
And then that gets on yournerves because you're like lay
off.
I'm a, I'm a full grown adultman, you
Xixi Wang (17:26):
Yeah, right?
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (17:29):
So I totally relate you mentioned like you had a
tough relationship with themduring high school and a big
part of it is just like theenvironment, your physical
living environment with them.
and now you've moved out, butwe're still working on having
these tough conversationsbecause they're necessary, you
know, it helps.
Build better connections withour parents.
(17:50):
What kind of like, if at all,any advice on how to even start
a tough conversation with yourparents?
Like, do you just like sit themdown and be like, Hey mom and
dad, I got some shit to tellyou.
Like what, what, what happens?
What, what do you do?
Xixi Wang (18:06):
I'm honestly lucky in the sense that my, especially my
mom, she wants to have thosetough conversations.
Sometimes she's like, We'regoing to sit down, and, you
know, I'm going to call you atthis time or we're going to talk
about something that's going onin the world, and I want to hear
your thoughts, like, oh, okay.
(18:27):
That's a lot.
Kristy Yee (18:28):
Nice.
Xixi Wang (18:28):
but yeah, like she wants, my mom is very like
extroverted, loves talking,loves, like hanging out with
friends.
and she loves just like talkingwith me about literally whatever
is going on.
so I've personally, I'vestruggled with being like, oh, I
want to talk to you about thisbecause I'm still trying to, you
(18:49):
know, see that having thatdiscussion is very helpful and
useful and we'll get, we'lleventually get to a point where
we have a better relationship.
But I think for a long time,like we got into a pattern where
those conversations always ledto.
Like an argument of some sort orlike screaming or whatever.
(19:12):
but I, I'm also, I thought I'mcurrently part of the
conversationalist.
that's what I, I'm a graphicdesigner for them.
And they've their whole goal isabout breaking open echo
chambers and seeing otherpeople's point of views, and
learning to respect thoseopinions and not necessarily
(19:33):
changing what you think, butjust realizing that there are
people out there who think verydifferently and are on the
opposite side of the spectrum.
But in order to unify the world,like we have to be able to see
those views and accept thoseviews as well.
So.
Being a part of that team hasreally opened my mind to
listening to others, like havingan open mind and really being
(19:57):
empathetic to people whereverthey're coming from.
We all have very differentexperiences.
And I think I'm starting morewhen I'm talking with my mom to
really try and like remindmyself that she is a lot older
and she's from a differentgeneration, but there are
(20:17):
obviously pros and cons to that.
Like she might not necessarilyunderstand, you know, the lingo
that I use or like some of, youknow, the trends of this
generation or like, thepolitical ideologies of my
generation.
But at the end of the day, likeshe is trying her best.
And I do see that and I doreally appreciate that.
(20:37):
And again, like I said before,like she just wants the best for
me and is trying to see my pointof view as well.
So as long as.
As we're just trying to be therefor one another and help each
other grow.
Like that sounds so cheesy, butyeah.
I just try to remind myself ofthat.
Kristy Yee (21:00):
What would you say it would be like one of the
toughest conversations you'vehad to had with your mom or.
Xixi Wang (21:12):
Wow.
I have to think.
I mean, I think probably mentalhealth.
again, had this conversation.
Well, I was in Canada a fewmonths ago.
We really impact a lot of shit.
Kristy Yee (21:27):
It's a different topic.
Let's talk about sex.
And then tomorrow we're going totalk about mental health.
And then the next day we'regoing to talk about political
ideology.
Xixi Wang (21:35):
Oh
Kristy Yee (21:36):
That's some heavy shit, man.
That's not a vacation.
Xixi Wang (21:39):
yeah, I was going through a lot mentally and I had
never told, as I said before,like I struggled a lot while I
was in high school with therelationship with my parents and
was also going through a lotmentally.
And I thought it was normal as,you know, a daughter of, in an
Asian family and a teenager.
I thought it was totally normal,I think it's like very
(21:59):
normalized in Asian householdsto not talk about mental health,
to think that it's somethingthat, you know, we can overcome
and it's not important.
And, you know, as long as youwork hard and you put an effort,
like you should be fine.
so I was always very scared totalk about what I was going
through mentally.
And when I was in Canada, itstarted to feel like those
(22:24):
struggles that I had earlierwere resurfacing, or at least
something had triggered themagain.
So it was kind of just out ofnowhere that I just admitted to
my parents, that when I wasyounger, I had, you know,
(22:44):
suicidal thoughts and I wasvery, I felt.
Unsafe is not the right word,just like very alone when I was
around them.
And didn't feel like theyunderstood me.
And that's why when I was a kid,like I, I loved school so much
school was like my safe place.
(23:05):
I love being with my friends, myteachers, but didn't really like
coming home.
it just, yeah, I just kind of,it was in the middle of an
argument.
I kind of just blew up and I,and it was just like, you know,
this was a thing and it was justa very, very hard conversation
for, especially me and my mom,because we were both emotional.
she was struggling with, youknow, me seeming ungrateful and
(23:30):
me, you know, always kind ofbeing passive aggressive at her
and like not opening up a lot ofthe times.
meanwhile, I was in thishorrible place of like, Just
after a breakup and then havingthese triggering thoughts and
like not being emotionally ormentally stable.
but yeah, that happened.
(23:50):
And honestly, after that, ithasn't really been addressed,
which is a little bit sad.
because I, I still think theydon't really know how to talk
about mental health.
and you know, what resources areout there.
And I guess that's just like alittle bit unfortunate, but
(24:10):
yeah, that was, that was a lot.
Angie Yu (24:14):
Well, thank you for, thank you for sharing that with
us, because, and for relivingthat, cause I'm sure it was just
as intense as when you had totell your parents that like I
have gone through somethingsimilar and telling my parents
that I had a suicidal incidentwhen I was younger.
And, I think the first thing Ifeel as the person communicating
(24:37):
that to your own parents,especially immigrant parents,
it's like, oh, you did all thisstuff to try to make my life
better.
I don't even want it.
You know what I mean?
So aside like big thing ofdisappointment and just not
wanting to disappoint ourparents, I think is like a huge
thing.
And like, talking about mentalhealth among our immigrant
(24:57):
parents, like they have so muchtrauma themselves that they
bottle up inside.
Y, I remember reading about thiswhen I was in like maybe in
university, something wheremaybe even high school, about
how, immigrant parents, like,especially men here in Vancouver
had the highest rate of suicide.
And I was like, wait, what?
(25:19):
That's like, my parents that'slike my dad, like, why doesn't
anybody talk about it?
And even, I only just rememberthis now, because after I read
that, I was just like, oh, thatsucks.
And I never talked about itagain.
Did I ask my parents about it?
I've never heard it talked aboutever again.
And it's like, okay, clearlythere's like something going on.
(25:40):
And there's clearly a need forthat generation to go through,
to, to get some mental healthsupport.
But again, because of ourculture is just so like, Hey,
let's slow.
Is that a rug?
Let's sweep under it?
Xixi Wang (25:54):
There was definitely a better way to go about it.
And fully like the day after bywe it's just like silent
treatment between me and my mom
Angie Yu (26:03):
oh,
Xixi Wang (26:04):
just, weren't talking to one another.
Um, Don was like, maybe youshould say something or like do
something or like take her outshopping.
And so it was like an awkwardperiod, but
Angie Yu (26:15):
Oh, my God, my dad did that too.
Like when my mom and I weren'ttalking, he like messaged me and
said some very wise words.
And I was like, who are you?
Like, is
Xixi Wang (26:25):
no, that's what my dad did.
Angie Yu (26:27):
Like my dad, my dad's the same as your dad.
Like, he just does whatever mymom tells him to do.
And like, yeah, he has like, hedoes it.
So when my mom and I weren'ttalking, yeah.
He just like sent me a couplemessages and I'm like, who the
fuck are you?
Like, where has this been?
My whole life, Oh, my God.
(26:48):
That's like a whole other issueof emotionally unavailable
Chinese fathers.
He said, just like you, your momis quite spoiled.
And I was like, okay, is thissupposed to make me?
He's like, you know, she's theyoungest.
And she was pretty spoiled too.
So she always got her way.
And you and your mom are bothvery headstrong and you're very
(27:08):
similar.
you, you both have, have adifficulty seeing another
person's perspective.
And it was
Kristy Yee (27:16):
He's just burning you
Angie Yu (27:18):
it was like so direct, can't remember exactly the rest
of what he said, but of coursethe words that he used, you
know, like I can tell like, oh,oh, he's an educated man.
And then after that it actuallydid, soften me up a bit.
And and I apologize to my momand then she apologized too,
Xixi Wang (27:35):
Yeah.
That's literally what happenedwith me and my mom.
That's so funny.
Kristy Yee (27:41):
China dad's school that they're both like trained
in because they're reacting thesame.
Angie Yu (27:47):
That's so good.
But the thing is like they careand you know what, it was
actually from my dad's messagedthat I'm like, oh, damn, he
actually cares a lot about meand my mom, which softened me up
a bit.
Cause it always, for me alwaysfelt like it was like a
struggle, like a tug of warbetween me and my mom.
And then when my dadintercepted, I was like, oh,
there's this other person in ourfamily.
Xixi Wang (28:07):
I so relate to that.
Angie Yu (28:09):
My psychiatrist, the one who diagnosed me with
bipolar.
She was like a white lady.
And, she was like, oh, like,tell me more about your
childhood.
What's your relationship withyour parents?
Like, and then I told her aboutmy dad, like, yeah, like he's a
great person, very educated, buthe never really like, cared that
much about money.
So he just does his own thing.
(28:29):
Like, you know, never reallybeen around that much, like
emotionally.
And I'm like, yeah, just, youknow, typical Chinese dad.
And I just talked about as if itwas like so normal and she's
like, oh, that must have beenreally hard.
And I was like, no, that's fine.
That's just what every Chinesedad is like, but then like the
sympathy in her, in her voicemade me go, is it fine?
(28:53):
Like, is it fine?
Yeah.
That's still something I haven'tquite gotten to the bottom of
yet.
I do think that a lot of.
relationships with dads, notjust Chinese community, but in
general, it's very complicatedbecause of, you know,
patriarchy, et cetera, etcetera.
But I digress.
Kristy Yee (29:11):
relationships, relationships with parents
themselves are reallycomplicated, right?
Because like, There are a sourceof a lot of trauma, but then
they also do it unknowinglybecause they didn't know any
better themselves.
And now we're at a place wherecollectively the newer
(29:31):
generation is more educated.
We're like so much more woke.
And, and now it's almost likeour turn to educate and then
forgive.
And then also understand thatlayer of trauma that has been
induced on us.
And how can we recover from thatwithout putting blame on our
parents?
Like there's a lot of workaround that.
Angie Yu (29:53):
Really well said.
I think the forgiveness part ishuge.
I think forgiving our parents isone of the biggest hurdles of
like, for me going throughtherapy, one of the biggest
thing was forgiving my parents.
And now I have this like newfound thankfulness and
gratefulness for my parents.
Like, I always knew that, like Ihad to be grateful because, you
(30:15):
know, they left another countryand they left all their family
and friends to move here for abetter future, especially for
me.
So I'm like, why have to begrateful?
Like I have to be thankful, butof course there were all these
like underlying resentments,like, Hey, I developed all these
like issues and anxiety andsocial anxiety because of the
way I had adapted to being like,like being at home all the time
(30:38):
when we first moved here aloneand not being able to go out
because it's technically illegalto be at home by myself kind of
thing.
Like all that stuff wasunprocessed.
So I was, I had moved on fromthose.
Small resentful moments.
And, but the, but the whole ideaof like, Hey, you have to be
grateful for your immigrantparents just overpowered the,
(31:03):
the rationale to be like, oh, Ineed to work through this
resentment.
So I think forgiveness is like ahuge, huge step in re like
reconciling with our parents.
Yeah.
Cause like Christie, like yousaid, they don't do it on
purpose and CC, like you said,they just want the best for us.
And when your mom, when you sayyour mom's biggest concern was
like, oh, but then you'reshowing these to like teenagers.
(31:25):
Cause like she just doesn't wantto get you in trouble.
She just doesn't want you to bein trouble.
Like that's so sweet.
She wasn't like, Hey, no, don'tdraw these, but pleasure toys.
just, you know, make sure theteenagers don't, you know, get
you in trouble or whatever.
Yeah.
Xixi Wang (31:50):
Forgiveness is definitely very important.
And then it also can come andlike baby steps.
I think I'm definitely still onthat road of like gaining
maturity and gaining forgivenessfor my parents.
But one thing that my mom keepsbringing up is my relationship
with piano and with music.
it's very common for, you know,Asian kids to pick up an
(32:12):
instrument or like be forced toplay an instrument by their
parents.
and I was put in piano classesfrom a very young age, but like
very seriously.
I was a competitive pianist formost of my life.
did like competitions touredaround the world was in a F like
company did festivals and all ofthem played with orchestras.
(32:34):
But it was never something thatI signed up.
I it's like the trauma that's inmy head is that like, I play
very, like clearly remember meas a kid, practicing piano, like
being kind of my mom telling methat I have to practice one to
two hours every day.
(32:55):
And me just like sitting at thepiano, playing my scales and
arpeggios and whatever the fuck.
And like literally literallycrying while I practice the
piano because I had no otheroption and telling my mom, like,
I don't want to do this anymore.
Like I want to quit.
(33:15):
And like, I, it's not, you know,I don't want to do this.
And she was like, when you'reolder, you'll be thankful.
You'll be grateful that we putyou in piano classes.
and now I'm 21.
I am grateful.
moral of the story, because Imean, this is my piano right
here.
(33:35):
it's something that I genuinely,like, I don't really play it
anymore, but I play it forenjoyment and personal, just
like happiness, but I would saylike my piano skills are pretty
good and that's something peopleare always very impressed by.
and it does make me like, kindof like an ego boost, but it's
(33:57):
something that,
Angie Yu (33:58):
You worked hard for it.
You cried as a toddler becauseof it.
Kristy Yee (34:01):
Yeah, it's a skill that you had built through lots
of little tears.
Xixi Wang (34:05):
Yeah.
After all of those hours ofpracticing, like I know I'll
probably always be able to pickup sheet music and be able to
play the piano.
So.
Angie Yu (34:13):
Yeah,
Xixi Wang (34:14):
Even though I'm not going to become a professional
pianist or anything.
It's definitely something thathas brought me a lot of joy and
comfort.
And, you know, I've met a lot offriends through, you know, doing
music at college or whatever.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (34:28):
I think this is a really good example of how
sometimes things aren't alwaysblack and white, like what our
parents do to us.
Aren't always positive ornegative, you know, it's not one
or the other in this situation.
What I'm hearing is like, therewas a lot of good things that
came out of the struggle, right?
(34:48):
Like you, you have this, youhave piano in your life.
You have the skill for every.
And, you know, you're able tofind joy from music, wherever
you go, anywhere in the worldthat you go, and there's a piano
there.
You're able to bring joy toyourself and others.
And that is a huge gift.
And that's something that youmight not have realized when
you're a kid, because yourparents force you to do the
(35:10):
thing and you didn't see thevalue in it.
But then on the other side ofthe story, it was, it's also
like my parents forced me to dothis thing without my consent at
all, without considering what Iactually wanted to do it,
there's a level of, I don't wantto say like restriction, like
you're, you're caged in, youknow, like there is no freedom.
(35:32):
There is no, there's no choiceand that can be very
suffocating.
Xixi Wang (35:39):
for sure.
Kristy Yee (35:41):
and so that in itself is also trauma, you know?
So in this one incidentincident, this case, this story.
I think both trauma is beingrepresented, but also gratitude
is being represented from thesame story.
And that can happen.
You know, I think sometimes wehear stories.
It's either like the supertragic, sad thing.
(36:01):
And then we like demonizesomeone for it, or it's like,
oh, this, this like amazingjourney that this person went
on.
And now I'm so grateful, youknow, it's, it's, there's so
much polarization sometimes whenwe think of stories, but there
can be both.
Xixi Wang (36:19):
Yeah, I definitely, for a lot, most of my life, as
you can imagine, thought of itas a mainly negative thing.
And, you know, I started talkingto a lot of like, especially my
white friends who about likelife trauma, like parent trauma,
like childhood trauma, whatever,and like telling them how I was
involved in basically everyextracurricular imaginable, and
(36:40):
was taught at a very young ageto like work my ass off and to
not really like go out and playwith friends, but like I should
be working hard.
and you know, I did ballet didsports.
I did piano.
I did flute and.
So my F I have a lot of friendswho envy me and who, you know,
weren't in those music classesand doesn't know how to play an
instrument and say to me like,oh, I wish I knew how to play an
(37:02):
instrument.
Like, I wish I parents put me inballet classes or, you know, you
know, put me in piano classes.
Like, that's not reallysomething you can pick up when
you're, you know, in the middleof high school.
So that I think talking toothers about that has also
opened my mind to the positiveaspect of it.
Kristy Yee (37:22):
and I, and, and I think this is also an example of
how everybody's, um, I don'twant to say resiliency, but like
everybody's way of God.
What am I trying to say?
People will have differentoutcomes, even if someone
(37:43):
applied the same formula.
So if a parent apply the sameformula to raising this kid,
right, they could come out liketotally different from another
kid, even though both parentsapplied the same structure or
the same teaching methods.
And it just goes to show likehow different we are just as
human beings, you know?
(38:03):
Yeah.
Okay.
To wrap up today's conversation,I think, oh my goodness.
We talked about so many things.
We talked about, like sexpositivity.
We touched on a little bit aboutyour, your queerness and how you
had discussions with yourparents, and then just even like
the struggles with having a goodrelationship and building a good
(38:26):
relationship with your parentsall the way from high school to
where you are now.
Right.
with, you know, mental health issomething that we just don't
talk about, I'm curious to know,and something to leave for our
poop troops for this episode iswhat is something that you are
doing right now to try toimprove your own mental health?
Xixi Wang (38:46):
Hmm, good question.
I think especially the summer,as things have kind of gotten a
little bit more normal, I guess,like they're not really normal,
but more normal than they weremonths ago.
as, and as I'm entering mysenior year of college, I've
been very wary of self care andespecially my mental health,
(39:06):
because my mental health hasbeen just like down the drain
since COVID.
so I started kind ofimplementing for myself a
morning routine.
I think it's all just about likesmall things that you do morning
routine, like working out, I'vealso had a tough relationship
with like my body appearance.
So I'm working out and likestrength training.
(39:27):
I'm like doing strength trainingwith one of my friends.
And that has been really fun,just like, and also spending
more time with my friends andpeople who I've had been seen in
a really long time and just likecarving that time out for myself
and to spend that time withpeople who I love and who care
about me.
and really just like puttingmyself first.
(39:48):
I think that's something thatI'm trying to actively do every
day and also doing things thatit will bring you joy and
happiness.
I think it's, it's really hardto, especially now I think a lot
of people in my generation arepretty much like workaholics and
(40:09):
you know, are doing a millionthings at once, even though.
Angie Yu (40:12):
has a side hustle in your generation.
Xixi Wang (40:15):
Yeah.
but it's important to kind oflet yourself breathe and like
keep yourself in check.
And I think personally, I alwaysnotice if I work too hard, like
there's going to be a pointwhere I just kind of break down.
so knowing how, how much is toomuch, and then always making
sure that I'm doing at least onething a day, that brings me a
(40:38):
little bit of happiness.
That's not work-related.
So whether that's like, likegetting seamless order to my
apartment or seeing a friend whoI haven't seen in a while, or
watching binge watching aNetflix show, small things like
that, they'll just make you morecalm and like, feel more in
(40:58):
tuned with yourself.
Always help.
Kristy Yee (41:01):
It was great to have you on the show CC,
Xixi Wang (41:04):
Thank you so much.
I love this conversation so muchand it was an honor.
Kristy Yee (41:08):
going to link everything that you had
mentioned in the show notes,including your Instagram page,
Asian for sex positivity.
And I just lost it.
Angie Yu (41:17):
Yeah, well, there you have a kid.
No, I'm just kidding.
well, for those who have stayedwith us until this point in the
episode, hope you had a greattime listening to this.
we were joined by CC Wong, she'sthis super impressive girl from,
I guess you're from New York.
Yeah.
New York was some roots inVancouver.
Yeah.
So check her out on Asian forsex positivity.
(41:40):
Do you have any personal blogsor websites or Instagram you
want to share?
Xixi Wang (41:45):
I have an art account.
That's a CC Wang artists whereyou can find a lot of my
paintings and drawings and whatnot.
Kristy Yee (41:52):
Or the, or the sex toy paintings still on the idea
account.
Xixi Wang (41:58):
Yes, they are.
Kristy Yee (41:58):
Okay.
So definitely link that in theshow notes.
I want to check some of thatshit
Angie Yu (42:02):
Yeah.
We can see some of it behind CCright now and they look
incredible.
Like I am so impressed by you.
Like 21.
You can play the piano reallywell.
You can paint.
Awesome.
Just so great to
Xixi Wang (42:13):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
I love, I love this.
Just like us talking aboutimportant things and like stuff
that shit we don't tell her momfor stuff that we have told her
mom.
Angie Yu (42:23):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (42:25):
And that's important too, because now it's like,
another person might be like,oh, I, I haven't come up with,
come out to my mom yet.
Right.
Or like, I haven't told themthat I had suicidal ideations
before and hearing that, oh,somebody has done this and talk
to their very Chinese parentsabout it.
You know, like maybe it's okay.
(42:45):
Maybe my parents might react ina different way than what I had
expected kind of a thing.
And so that's why it's soimportant to have these
conversations and put the shiton the internet so that others
can feel more, more inspired andmore empowered to do the same as
well.
Xixi Wang (43:02):
Exactly.
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