December 12, 2021 • 56 mins
Self-shaming. Struggling relationship. Disappointing Chinese Christian parents. Lucas Ng, Canadian actor and co-host of “Have We Made It Yet” podcast, shares how he got fired from his job triggered a cascade of endless negative self-talk, thoughts of self-harm, and eventually going to therapy 5 years later.
**Content Warning: Self Harm**
Takeaways:
- Traumas can resurface years after they happened
- Can’t expect your partner to be your everything
- A constant need for control might actually be your own denial of your mental health struggles
- Talk with your younger self with compassion and love
- 20s is when you figure out who you are
- 30s is when you figure out what you want
Mentions & Resources:
- Lucas Ng Instagram
- Have We Made It Yet Podcast (Documenting experiences as new entertainers and artists looking to "make it" in the entertainment industry)
- Ep 27. Our Shit: Suicide Ideations and the Depression Roller Coaster
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie Yu (00:00):
but I never mentioned that I was really
underperforming.
I was really hiding.
I felt braver talking about themental health side then I felt
comfortable about talking abouthow I had failed at being an
employee.
I had failed at being just likea functioning person in society,
because there was so much shame.
Kristy Yee (00:46):
Welcome back to another episode of shit.
We don't tell mom today.
We have Lukas Ng joining us, heis a friend of Angie's.
He's also a fellow podcaster andhe hosts his own podcast with
his friend, Josh yang calledhave we made it yet talking
about ins and outs of making itin the entertainment industry?
So Lukas he's a Chinese Canadianactor currently living in
(01:09):
Toronto and Lukas was brought upin a pretty religious Chinese
family, and he wishes that wecould talk more openly about
shame and guilt.
So welcome Lukas
Lucas Ng (01:18):
hey everyone.
What an intro.
Thank you.
Kristy Yee (01:21):
I know I practiced every day in the mirror.
No, I did not.
Lucas Ng (01:24):
Love it.
Kristy Yee (01:25):
I'm excited because you grew up in a really
religious Chinese family.
I interpret this as very strict,very like lots of rules, et
cetera, et cetera so first off,like tell us more about your
childhood and what was it likegrowing up in that super
religious family upbringing?
Lucas Ng (01:44):
Yeah, I mean, I'm going through therapy.
Right.
You know, or I'm in therapy.
A lot of it is unpackaging thatchildhood that I was raised in,
Don't get me wrong.
It was, it was good.
I was never in want.
I was never in need of anything.
I had a whole community of likechurch going friends and
everything like that, that I,that I grew up with.
And it was, it was really goodto at least have a community of
(02:05):
people that I can always rely onback in my childhood, but just
unpacking it and looking at itfrom like a 10 year distance
road.
It was a lot of, it was based onlike a, a punitive fear that I
constantly had whenever I wantedto either mentally or physically
step out of this kind of amindset that I had.
(02:27):
I would say about like my firstyear in university, when I
realized I can't do thislifestyle anymore.
That my faith could not give methe openness to experience life
as I wanted to.
And that going into my firstlike public institution, which
is a university, because priorto that, I was always in a
(02:48):
private, elementary school, evenin a private high school that
university really opened my eyesto, to a much bigger world that
I could experience.
And when I did experience it,that's when the first, uh, felt
shame in experiencing somethingnew.
Angie Yu (03:02):
what do you mean by shame and feeling something new?
Like, did you feel like, yeah.
W what do you mean by that?
Lucas Ng (03:08):
Yeah first off, I think what separates, say, uh,
white Christianity, as opposedto, um, say Chinese Christianity
is that.
a lot of Christian principlescan be, this is, this is for a
lack of a better word, but canbe twisted in, in a way that,
that amplifies the Chinese side.
So the Chinese side, of course,as we kind of know, Um,
(03:31):
emphasize the, the collectiveemphasizes that we all roll
together we all think the samething in everything.
And so the moment that I wasexposed to something new, I felt
like I was breaking rank.
I was going rogue.
And w at the moment, evenmentally, when I started
stepping outside of that kind ofmind frame, you know, you start
(03:51):
taking a look back and you, andyou realize no one is really
going with you.
And that's where that initialshame does come from that the
unknowing.
The unknowing and also thepresence that you have behind
you is not there anymore.
And so you, you mightmisconstrue that feeling of
stepping out as that's somethingimmoral and that that's where
(04:13):
that initial feeling of shamecomes from.
Kristy Yee (04:15):
it almost sounds like, you know, you were brought
up in this community, thisChristian faith community, and
you were very comfortable there.
And you know, you had friends,family, you were in private
school.
Was this a Christian privateschool?
I'm assuming.
Lucas Ng (04:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (04:30):
And then when you went into post-secondary.
And you were exposed to a lotmore.
I don't want differentideologies and mindsets, et
cetera.
You realize that, oh, there isother things outside of this
bubble, this community that Iwas so comfortable in and
stepping outside of that bubbleto learn more about it made you
feel kind of isolated becauseyou turn around and nobody else
(04:53):
is there with you.
Nobody else from your communityis walking along this journey
with you.
And you also feel like you'rekind of like turning your back
on your people.
Lucas Ng (05:01):
exactly.
Like, like great point aboutturning back because it, and
this is like kind of cringy attimes too.
Like I remember again in likemy, my second year of
university, When I like reallywanted to cut ties with the
church and everything.
I remember I wrote an email tomy like close friends back at
church.
I was like, sorry, guys.
(05:21):
I can't go to Bible study.
And more, my beliefs currentlyjust can't coincide with the
beliefs back of the church andlooking back it's like, why do
you have to do that only becausewhy did you have to make your
cuts so explicit?
Like there's no point.
but yeah, like, like to yourpoint though, it, it, it is that
kind of like stuffing steppingout and then looking around you
and realizing, okay, we're backat square one.
(05:41):
I have to create my new group.
I have to create a new identityand.
Out of that new identity couldcome great things, but also
shame and guilt is related tothat too.
Angie Yu (05:51):
When you say that you felt like it was cringy when you
wrote that email?
I actually think that's reallybrave.
I feel like that, like you said,you wrote an email to them
because it coincided with thefact that your beliefs are no
longer aligned and it wassomething that they would not
do.
Right.
Because it's so explicit sayit's so direct, but I feel like
(06:11):
that coincides exactly aboutwhere you were mentally and
emotionally with your spiritualside is that you felt like I
Renegade.
So for you to write them anemail, it's kinda like, well,
that's kinda like very parallel.
We're very on brand for you.
Lucas Ng (06:31):
Yeah.
Thanks.
Like, I, I never thought of itlike, like a Renegade, but, but
yeah, I guess so, I mean, Uh,one of the main things that, uh,
that I wrote in my journalbefore coming on here was like,
I was raised to think that I wasnever anything, you know, I was
raised to, you know, of coursefinished my undergrad, going
(06:52):
into the family business and uh,and continue with life, continue
on with that Ng legacy, youknow, but, you know, essentially
I broke ranks with my Christianlife.
I broke ranks with was likeliving with my girlfriend
outside of wedlock, leaving homebefore I got married and all
that stuff.
And now like Pursuing acting andgoing into the entertainment
field, all of these things rightnow have just really amplified
(07:16):
that kind of, I guess at times,fight in me I was always raised
up to think that I was nothing,but I always want to reclaim
that, that I am something.
And I guess that that fight hasalways been there even prior to
me moving out to Toronto.
Kristy Yee (07:30):
I think that's incredibly.
Okay.
I'm going to I'm like brave.
Wait.
And you just said that God damnit.
Angie Yu (07:36):
I'm really impressed.
I'm Lukas, I only hung out withyou like once or twice, know in
Toronto.
Uh, but I, I wish I had knowlike known you more intimately
longer because like, I'm just soastounded by this journey.
You're going through with thejourney that has started a while
ago.
Like, even with the fact thatyou're in therapy, like, I don't
(07:59):
think I can list my handful ofpeople.
That are men that are going totherapy.
Lucas Ng (08:05):
And I'll be honest, there's, of course there's a lot
of like financial barriers goingto therapy and everything.
And, and I have to give, propsto my girlfriend, you know, I am
in a position right now wheremy, you know, incoming.
Decreased incredibly, you know,I used to have a cool job back
working at visual effects, youknow, of course benefits and
everything, but right now I'm anactor, so there's not a lot of
(08:26):
stuff.
So I need to like work aflexible job, all that, to say,
it's my girlfriend's benefitsthat have allowed me to position
to go into therapy.
and explore that.
But it was also because of her,that she exposed something
within me.
That that was really powerfulbecause, and this might divert
from the story, but, I guess wewere going through a rough patch
it was, it was always hard.
(08:46):
This was pre COVID too andeverything.
And she, and I both realized wecan't be each other's
everything.
you know, I expected and thisis, this is bad.
I expected her to be my bestfriend, my confidant, my
counselor, my therapist.
At times even anonymous shame tosay this at times, even like my
emotional punching bag, becauseit was just, I had so much angst
(09:07):
in me at times and she justsaid, Lukas, I can't be your
everything.
This is ridiculous.
You know, we don't always havejust one friend.
you.
know, we have a dentist, we havea electrician, we have all this
other stuff.
it was because of that commentthat she made that really pushed
me towards growth and finding athird party to, to go into these
(09:28):
deep seated issues that I, thatI had.
and so just props to her forgiving me that opportunity to
go.
Kristy Yee (09:33):
I can't be your, everything.
I think that is such a, that'sgoing to be one of our takeaways
already.
We're only like 10 minutes intothis conversation, you know,
because I think oftentimes likewhen we are in a relationship we
spend so much time with thisperson.
We feel the most comfortable,most vulnerable with this
person.
And we end up carrying a lot ofexpectations for this other
person and we just keep throwingit at them and it doesn't help
(09:54):
with like media doesn't help.
Lucas Ng (09:56):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (09:57):
Telling us that this person is your number one and
they are your best friend andconfidant and et cetera.
And they totally can be, but ahuman only has so much capacity
and they have their own shitgoing on too.
And we need to respect that aswell.
Oftentimes we don't remember,especially when we are going
through our own stuff and I saythis from a personal level, and
I think Angie can relate aswell.
(10:17):
Cause like when I go through mydepression phases, the first
person I think about turning towould be my boyfriend because
that's the person I am like theclosest person in my life.
Right.
The person that I love and whatI always have to actively do is
remind myself that I can'talways just put my shit onto
this one person.
Like I got to spread out myload, you know, and we've said
(10:38):
this in previous episodesbefore, but you got to spread to
shit.
You know, you gotta spread thatshit out.
And not only does that help yourealize that there's actually a
lot of support in your circle.
It also helps them realize that,oh, it's okay to be vulnerable
with not just your significantother, but with other people as
well.
And, and overall, I'm notburdening someone with all of my
(11:01):
load.
Lucas Ng (11:02):
Yeah.
And, and, and, and you touchedupon that great point too.
It's, it's spreading, literallyspreading the load because one
person already has their owninternal shit that they're
dealing with.
Maybe not visibly.
They are dealing with itinternally, already themselves.
And you as a selfish personcoming through and unloading
more of your stuff onto anotherperson who is already dealing
(11:23):
with their own stuff, it's goingto overflow.
They're going to grow resentmenttowards you and they don't want
to listen to you anymore.
And so just for the sake of ourrelationship and I'm sure for,
for yourself too, just for therelationship, it's best to
almost sometimes just keep somethings to yourself and spread it
to other people.
Of course, don't, don't spreadtoxicity and all that stuff, but
(11:44):
at the same time, Like we needhelp.
And sometimes our own intimatepartners are not the best people
at
Angie Yu (11:50):
Yeah.
Like everyone has their ownspecialization and your partner
can also specialize ineverything.
they can't be like forsupporting beams in your life.
They can only be one or two,sometimes three.
And then you have other peoplethat are also one or two or
sometimes three, like theyrotate.
Right.
(12:12):
Actually the point you bought,brought up about how.
It was kind of when your partnerwent, Hey, I can't be your,
everything that you started tothink, you know what?
I'm relying too much on her.
Um, I'm not relying on myselfenough or not relying on the
other support systems in my lifeenough.
And I can relate to that a lotbecause my last relationship
(12:32):
ended on a very soured note.
There wasn't enoughcommunication because during the
rough patch that I had wentthrough with this person, I was
like at my most depressed ever,but I didn't know how to, I
didn't even know I wasdepressed.
and it was just a law for theother person, but the other
person didn't also didn't havethe emotional tools to deal with
that either.
(12:53):
So the relationship ended.
I started seeing a therapist andI've been seeing her since, and
during the period of time, I wassingle.
I was alone actually, when Iwent to Toronto, that was part
of my, like whole single gettingto know myself better.
Like I went to Toronto alone, Imet up with different friends.
I went to Quebec, like, it wasso much fun just getting to know
myself again.
(13:13):
Right.
And, um, so I did that for along time.
And then I met my currentboyfriend, end of last year and
everything was going reallygreat.
I was seeing my therapist a bitless as well because I was
running out of stuff to talk toher about because I had worked
through so much, so much of myproblem on my own, but then the
triggers that had been therethat was difficult to work with
(13:34):
on your own, because there'sonly so much that can happen
when you're by yourself.
With things started to happenwith my current boyfriend.
I couldn't work through thetriggers alone.
So I had just started seeing mytherapist again.
And I remember one of the thingsthat she said that really
resonated with me.
And I think it's so parallel towhat you're saying is that.
Because I was so codependent,like emotionally co-dependent
(13:56):
with my last boyfriend, it feltlike we didn't even have to
communicate because we wouldknow what each other was
thinking.
And then I was telling her likehow, like, I have trouble
communicating with my currentboyfriend and it sounded like it
was his problem, but it wasactually my problem because I
was expecting him to read mymind and I'm like, I just want
him to know everything about methat way.
Then I don't have to communicate
Lucas Ng (14:18):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (14:19):
so much easier.
Um, and then
Kristy Yee (14:21):
I was just supposed to know all this stuff.
If you don't
Angie Yu (14:23):
yeah, well that too, right.
I'm like, oh, I know, like he'snot going to know anything, but
she was also like, is itreasonable to expect one person
to know all of you?
And then I'm like, you knowwhat?
Yeah, it's not.
And it wasn't until she put thatquestion now that I was like,
oh, I never thought about that.
That way.
She's like, isn't it moreinteresting.
To have a relationship where youcontinuously find out things
(14:45):
about the other person andcontinuously have that emotional
bond.
And I was like, oh, damn.
Lucas Ng (14:52):
Yeah.
There is a really big thing tospeak to about like, discovering
new things about your partner.
Like of course, I mean, you canask the basic questions, like
you discovered that her newfavorite color or something like
that, but I've been with mygirlfriend for officially since
like 2013.
So right now we're at eightyears now, almost close to nine
and, you know, none of myrelationships prior to this has
(15:13):
ever lasted this long, ofcourse, But there's something
about knowing a person sointimately that like, you know,
their triggers, you know, whatcan set them apart?
You know, what can, what canreally hurt them?
What can really make them happyand everything.
But even though you might knowso much stuff, there is still
something that maybe it's an offday too, but you say one thing
(15:33):
and it's like, it kind ofspirals out and it kind of
relates back to like, anotherthing that you might've said
prior, but it's just thisconstant learning that you
always have to do to recalibrateyourself, which, which comes out
of like going into therapy.
So you know how to be like, be abetter person
Angie Yu (15:49):
Yeah.
And when I talked to mytherapist, I'll like, she'll say
something and then I'll go offinto this days where I'm
thinking and she'll be like,what are you thinking?
And I would be like, I was like,well, we always talk about how
it's a journey in getting toknow ourselves.
Why would we expect to knowsomeone else in such a short
amount of time, it's a journeyand getting to know yourself
better.
(16:09):
It's also a journey and gettingto know the other person better.
And, and that that's exactlylike what you said.
Like, even though you have beentogether for almost nine years
and you know, all these littlethings about each other and you
avoid the triggers and you dothings to make each other happy,
but Hey, maybe they're having abad day and then something comes
up or like something in theirlife changes.
And like, you never know, it'sstill a journey.
Kristy Yee (16:30):
And, you know, people change.
And I like that wordrecalibrating because you may
think, you know, someone really,really well, but every single
day, us as humans, we encounterdifferent people.
We encounter differentexperiences.
We see different memes onInstagram.
You know what I mean?
Like our thoughts change, ouropinions can change.
(16:52):
And like we grow as humans and,I'm growing because I'm trying
to learn more about myself and,and therapy helps with that.
And it sounds like therapy ishelping you on that journey to
Lukas.
And as we keep growing, we arechanging every day.
And so our.
And us as partners, we need toalso recalibrate and grow and
(17:14):
learn with them to
Lucas Ng (17:15):
yeah.
It's so true.
A big reason, again, like why Iwent to therapy.
It was just because life reallyhappened in Toronto.
like, I was fired from my firstjob here, which is to this day,
I'm still in therapy because whyI initially went into therapy.
It was just my incredibleability to just negative.
Self-talk constantly aboutmyself to the point where my
(17:38):
girlfriend was just, you go tosee someone about this.
You, I don't want to be withsomeone who's constantly putting
themselves down.
And if there was a triggeringevent, it was that first firing
because it rattled me at my coreto my own self-confidence so
life just happens and, it'sincredible how much it can.
It can really wrap.
Kristy Yee (17:59):
Do you want to tell us a little bit more about that?
that event
Lucas Ng (18:02):
yeah, yeah, for sure.
Um, uh, it's still a work inprogress and all that stuff too.
But, uh, so w um, me and mygirlfriend, we, we came to
Toronto, back in 20, 20 14.
we, we moved here jobless andhomeless.
It's a cool story.
Like, I'm still writing like ascreenplay about it and all that
stuff to, uh, yeah.
(18:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Because life really happened inthe city.
we were, again, we came herejobless and homeless.
I found the place that we'recurrently in still right now.
And thank goodness, we're stillpaying good rent and it's a
great place in downtown.
but the first objective, when wefirst got here was to look for a
jobs to get some income comingin.
and I was pursuing my mediadreams.
(18:45):
So I was, I was only going towork at like TV studios or like
animation studios.
Luckily I found a job prettyfast at an animation studio.
that's still producing greatstuff.
It's the state right now.
I was working in marketingthere, and met some great
people, but my direct reportswere just w I guess we just
weren't compatible, but to beput at bluntly, like, I don't
(19:05):
think they're that good ofpeople to begin with.
constant managerial changes frommy boss to eventually the point
where the owner of the companyjust said to my boss.
That, uh, they did not trustworking with me anymore because.
Some issues that were not, thatwere above my control.
And, uh, they let me go.
(19:27):
And I still remember walkinginto the HR office that day,
that Monday morning thinking Iwas gonna possibly get a
promotion because I had reallyproved myself for a lot of ways.
And then getting sat down andjust said, here's this letter,
please vacate the premisesimmediately.
Angie Yu (19:41):
God.
Lucas Ng (19:42):
And I don't.
Yeah.
And, uh, I remember walking,walking out and still in
complete shock.
I remember sitting at aStarbucks that I was nearby and
I've never said this out loudactually, but like we were, we
lived kind of close by the lakeand I remember like
contemplating the idea of likejumping in.
(20:05):
Like, it was just so much shameand the worst part of it.
And it just reminded me.
My parents were in town visitingme that week.
like walking and then, I mean,I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie
to them about this stuff.
Cause eventually like, comeTuesday the next day, they're
(20:26):
going to say like, what, whyaren't you at work?
You know, I can't make up thatwhole lie.
So I just told them on that day.
And I remember walking to theAirbnb and it was the same face
of disappointment that my dadhad when I like failed my, my L
license three times.
Kristy Yee (20:45):
For our international listeners, that's
a, that's the learner's driver's
Angie Yu (20:49):
Yeah.
It's a written test that youhave to take so that you can
actually start learning how tolearn, how to drive, like in the
actual car.
Uh, don't worry.
I also failed
Kristy Yee (20:59):
that you are allowed to learn how
Angie Yu (21:00):
Yeah, yeah,
Kristy Yee (21:01):
I also felt the L two, so it's no shame.
Angie Yu (21:04):
And I did not read the book and yeah.
Anyway also failed the threetimes.
Lucas Ng (21:10):
Nice, nice.
nice.
Yeah, so I remember like himsitting across from my, my mom
was like standing with her armscrossed and they weren't mad.
They were just disappointed and,and just maybe slightly
embarrassed at the same time,too.
And if there's anything that younever wanted to point, of course
disappoint yourself.
(21:31):
You, you feel it, but to alsolike to support your parents in
the most visceral of ways thatthat's what really stuck out to
me and to this day, it's I can,I'm still working through the
emotions of it.
Cause I, I know I was firedunjustly and, but it, it got me
to that point, you know, Whatelse could I have done?
(21:54):
What else could I have saved myjob?
You know?
and then all I internalized allof that and it manifested itself
into incredibly low talk aboutmyself like Lukas.
Remember when you're, when youthought that you were raised up
to be shit, you know, that youain't shit all well, it's true.
You know, remember when you werelike fired from your job.
(22:16):
Yeah.
You know, that's that justconfirms everything.
So like to this day, even thoughit's like about three, five
years ago now, I still catchmyself at times when I'm doing
something really monotonous, youknow, like putting clothes away.
And I have my manager's voice inmy head, screaming at me for
doing something wrong.
Quote, unquote, wrong.
(22:36):
And.
I am still working on it becausethese triggers really kind of
have a way to just press at myown core identity and, and
rattles it.
So it's, it's something that I'mstill working through to this
day.
Angie Yu (22:49):
My heart really like dropped when you were telling
that story, like, I can hear thepain that you went through, but
I can also hear a lot of healingas well as cheesy as that
sounds.
I do hear that and I'm happythat you're here and I think
it's, there's always shame andguilt bell thinking.
Hey, maybe I'll walk into thelake or like my parents are here
(23:11):
and I've just disappointed themagain.
It's shame and guilt.
And, it's again, it's like alifelong journey of working
through it and the wholenegative self-talk thing, like
you said, you were expecting apromotion and you thought
everything was going reallywell.
And it's just, whew, man, that'srough being blindsided by your
managers who are supposed tocare about your wellbeing and
(23:32):
their own wellbeing.
But from the sounds of it, likethis manager was yelling at you
or shouting at you for doingsomething, quote, unquote,
wrong.
Fuck that guy.
Kristy Yee (23:40):
you know, you mentioned, you felt like that
firing was unjust, you and Angiementioned the expectation of you
feeling like, oh, I might get apromotion to being completely
180 around that drop is even waymore intense than if you had no
expectation at all from HR.
Right?
Cause then your, your fall won'tbe as impactful.
(24:01):
But what your manager did saywas, oh, we can't trust you.
I thought that was reallycurious because they make it
sound like it's something, theyjust put the, all the blame on
you
Lucas Ng (24:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean it, yeah.
Kristy Yee (24:19):
trust is a huge thing, right?
Like it's a, it's a secret thingthat we all value a lot in, in
any sort of relationship and themanager to say like, Hey, we're
going to let you go because wecan't trust you anymore.
That's a huge slap in the face.
And just completely saying, thisis all you Lukas.
It's not our fault.
(24:41):
So that, that break of trust, ifyou like, I did something wrong
and now you can't trust meanymore.
I feel like if, if that were tohappen to me, that would just
add fuel to the fire of negativeself-talk because it's now a
blame on you, Lukas.
And that's what shame is.
Shame is us blaming ourselves,labeling ourselves as stupid, as
(25:03):
incompetent as you suck.
Right?
It's not, oh, I did somethingthat was stupid.
It was like, I'm stupid.
Right.
And what they said was like, oh,you, you, you, you didn't do
something that was quote unquotewrong.
It's like, I can't trust youanymore.
Lukas that's so I don't know.
I don't, I don't even know howto explain this in words, but I
(25:25):
feel like you're getting whatI'm
Angie Yu (25:26):
It's it takes it to such a personal level.
Like not
Kristy Yee (25:30):
Yeah.
They just personally
Angie Yu (25:32):
you.
Yeah.
And the thing is like, Hey, Ican trust you.
Well, maybe the problem is you.
And the thing is with fairings,it's not like a relationship
where you can like, there'sokay.
Most relationships don't endwell, but like at least there is
a chance that you can talkthings through with the other
person.
And
Kristy Yee (25:51):
What have you most relationships don't end well.
Angie Yu (25:54):
okay.
Not most, but like, I would saylike maybe a good chunk of
relationships out theresometimes.
And on a sour note, especiallyif it's like the first
relationship, you know?
Cause that's when you don'treally know what to expect.
but the thing is like, peopledon't expect work to be like a
two way thing and your managersand the people you work with
have so much authority over youthat it's like, it's really
(26:14):
unfair.
And it's.
I think it can even be moredetrimental than like a
relationship relationship.
Lucas Ng (26:21):
definitely.
that there is something about,getting fired that really does
hit at your core of capability.
of your industrial input andthis is all wrong because a
person's worth is not dictatedon their industrial output.
That's all like capitalismbullshit, you know?
but there's something about,first of all, not having, not
(26:42):
being able to actually like, youknow, contribute, but there is
also something I felt, a personhaving that much power over you
that they can actually strip allof that away from you at a
moment's notice and take awayliterally your livelihood.
I remember it was my first timegoing on EI after this whole
incident.
(27:03):
And, and just for listeners, ifyou did want to get this in th
th I, I didn't like steal anymoney.
It's this isn't like anythinglike trust, really trust
related.
And it was just because theywanted me to talk to a client
about a project, but I hadtalked to the client about
project B based onmisunderstand.
Really something simple.
but there's something about theshame again, that, that you go
through after getting fired,because then you have to go to
(27:25):
an EI and then understandingthat whole process of starting
again.
And you, you know, back inVancouver and when everything
was kind of comfortable, you'dnever really had a second
thought about like, you know,I'll get take out whatever, but
then you're literally countingthe cents in a city that has
minus 30 winters.
You know, of course, heat, wegot the heat, but there's
(27:48):
something just miserable aboutbeing alone and having to rattle
your own self-confidence andhaving to do it in a new city
and then having to re-establishyourself again.
So if there's anything that Ijust really learned, it's the
resiliency involved in findingyourself, but also pursuing your
dream.
You have to be incrediblyresilient.
Angie Yu (28:08):
Wow
Kristy Yee (28:09):
Yep, because you were just throwing all these
negative circumstances.
While being in a brand new citylike that alone is already a, a
huge change in anybody's life.
But you have to manage all ofthese expectations from your
family and friends of course.
Right?
Like, cause that that'simportant too.
And we feel ashamed about goingon EI and EI is employment
(28:33):
income.
Is that right?
Insurance,
Lucas Ng (28:36):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (28:36):
it's insurance from the government.
They give you some money whenyou lose a job.
Angie Yu (28:41):
I mean, we pay into it, but yeah.
Kristy Yee (28:43):
you feel ashamed.
Yeah.
And, and I relate because I wason EI once and I didn't tell my
friends because it's shameful.
Like I, I feels embarrassing tosay, and you have to manage all
of that while being in a newcity and your parents are in
town.
Like there's so much stuffhappening.
So I feel like.
(29:04):
What am I saying?
I'm not not saying negative.
Self-talk is, oh God.
Now I'm labeling shit.
Okay.
See, this is great because I'mgetting uncomfortable.
Angie Yu (29:14):
I know what you mean.
Like you don't want to, youknow, I, I think I know where
you're going with this, but
Kristy Yee (29:19):
I want to, I want to validate that it's so easy to
slip into the negative self-talkspace because your manager, what
happened at work in thatincident, they already put a
lot, they were the one thatsparked the fire, but then they
also added some gasoline bythrowing the trust thing at you,
right.
By just totally shaming you andbeing like, this is all your
(29:40):
fault, Lukas.
Right?
so you internalize that and yousay that this is my fault.
And you use that as an example,to validate your own self
worthlessness
Lucas Ng (29:50):
Spot on.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Angie Yu (29:52):
Really well said.
Lucas Ng (30:55):
I never really dealt with that negative self-talk
until recently until like about2020.
So this was about like.
five years removed from, sinceI've noticed it within me and
wanted to cure it.
But there is a certain pointthat, just your, your natural
need for, for, for like foodand, and just to, to make
yourself kind of worthy, likefinding a job then became like
(31:19):
the number one priority again.
So I never dealt with any ofthose kind of mental aspects
that I had in my life.
And that actually led me into abigger fire that I was in.
So I was out of the frying panand into the fire after that.
Because it was about like abouteight months of like
joblessness, you know,constantly applying for jobs and
everything like that.
Eventually found a great job atanother animation studio.
(31:41):
and I should have known thisfrom day one, but like, there
was a lot of like grumblingsthat like things were not going
well in terms of its foundation,literal foundation.
And back when it was stillthere, this was the biggest
animation studio in all ofCanada.
Like it rivaled Pixar in termsof like people.
that they had working for them,through just constant.
Uh, bosses my boss gettingconstantly a rotating door.
(32:05):
The CCO that creative chiefofficer asked me directly after
my boss was fired.
She just said, Hey, uh, what doyou want to be Lukas?
What do you want to be?
And I was like, I want to be indevelopment.
I want to read scripts.
And I want to eventuallyGreenlight projects for the
studio.
She's like, okay, cool.
Let's do this.
You'll be my protege.
You'll be my second.
(32:26):
You'll be my number two.
You'll read all the scripts I'mreading.
You'll see all the developmeetings we're going through.
I'm like, this is it.
I found my dream position.
This is amazing.
I can go to LA with this oneday, I can go back to Vancouver
and like develop great Rick andMorty, like projects, you know,
one day it's going to be awesomea month after she said.
(32:46):
But there were constant therumblings of the company going
under or getting more and moreand more louder eventually to
the point where after an Augustlong weekend, I was on city news
and I saw my company name onthere and it said, my company
name bankrupt, all 500employees, including myself, all
lost their jobs on that sameday.
Angie Yu (33:06):
whoa.
Kristy Yee (33:07):
Oh, my God.
Angie Yu (33:08):
500 people.
Holy crap.
Lucas Ng (33:11):
And the most fucked up thing was they were still hiring
people up until the day theywent under, people were coming
in from London, from the UK.
They were thinking they weregoing to get PR sponsorships.
So like I'm thankful I wasn't ona plane.
And then realizing I had no, nomore, no more work, but I just
remembered.
I thought I had found my dream.
(33:32):
But so then wake up the nextday, finding out on a plastic
sheet of paper from on thestudio class, front door saying,
sorry, we can't pay our lendersanymore.
The studio was now locked out tofinding out you have nothing.
Now again, it incredibly rattledme again because I thought I had
something and again, back tonothing.
(33:53):
And then I was second in notcommand, but like closest to the
CCO, to this person who issupposed to know everything
about the company, but she kepteverything from me.
And then again, I internalizethat I'm like, I was so close.
I should have known why didn't,you know, Lukas, you know,
everyone was kind of asking you,but you were you just too dumb
(34:14):
to know, are you that bad atyour job, Lukas?
And that really rattled me tothe point where I got.
I don't think I could've likegone on any, any worse, you
know, and again, I did not dealwith those issues of negative
self-talk again, but they wereeven more amplified after that
experience.
Kristy Yee (34:33):
It's like you, you are constantly going through
this series of disappointment,these like highs and low
disappointments being put insituations that you don't have
control over, but youinternalize that it is your own
fault.
Lucas Ng (34:47):
Yeah.
And I'm wondering like, likeI'll throw this out to you guys,
like, like, do, do you, do youfeel at times you internalize
these kinds of events that youdon't have control over as a
control for mechanism as acontrol mechanism so that you
kind of feel like you still havecontrol over your own life?
Is that how.
Angie Yu (35:04):
Wait say that again?
Lucas Ng (35:06):
Yeah.
Like, like you internalizethings that you really have no
control over as a want tocontrol them.
Kristy Yee (35:16):
Um, I'm thinking, like being in a situation where
I don't have control, but I tellmyself that I have control to
feel like I have control.
Lucas Ng (35:25):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (35:25):
see.
I see.
So denial.
Oh yeah.
I haven't, I haven't been inthat situation many, many, many
times where I'm in denial.
Yeah, actually.
So same thing I have, experiencewith like failing at something
like a career after the end ofmy last relationship where I was
going through a really, reallyrough time.
(35:47):
It actually started even beforethe relationship was ending.
My whole journey with depressionkind of started when a friend of
mine who's from Toronto, tookhis own life and it just
shattered me to my core and ithit me really hard, like harder
than anybody.
That we know, like, we, we allknew him.
It was when I was in China, uh,doing a co-op and like everyone
(36:11):
who knew him was obviouslydevastated, but I really clung
onto it.
And it wasn't until later intherapy, I realized this because
like I related a lot to hiscondition, and just really
suppressing that side of you.
And it just hadn't gotten worseand worse and worse.
And I was losing control.
(36:31):
I work and I just, I kept sayinglike, I'm in control, I'm in
control.
But my head was like, basically,like, I was just like,
everything I did was just tokeep my nose from being above
the wall.
But I had absolutely, but I wasin so much denial and then I
just couldn't like, everythingjust came crashing down.
I went into work one day and Ijust looked like absolute shit.
And I walked up to one of thepartners who was not one of my
(36:54):
direct bosses.
I walked up to him and I'm like,do we have coverage for mental
health?
Just straight up?
And he was so caught off guard.
He's like, oh, uh, yeah.
I was like, okay, cool.
And then I just walked away.
And then later that day hemessaged me.
He emailed me before he wenthome.
He's like, Hey, I'm sorry.
I didn't react very well tothat.
Uh, let's have coffee tomorrowmorning.
(37:16):
He's like, I have a clientmeeting at 10, but let's, let's
go for a chat at like nine.
And I was like, oh no, if youhave, you know, I was still
pushing it.
I was like, oh no, don't worryabout it.
Like if you have a clientmeeting, it's all good.
Obviously again, denial.
And then we ended up going forcoffee and.
As soon as we sat down, I juststarted crying and that was the
(37:37):
day I went on my short-termleave.
Kristy Yee (37:40):
because someone finally gave you permission to
feel these
Angie Yu (37:42):
yeah.
Someone gave me permission to belike, Hey, you don't have to be
productive.
Go get better.
And then from that day on, I wason like a 17 week short-term
disability leave.
And yeah, I was on like, samething, insurance, not EI but
like, um, like short-termdisability insurance.
And like, and it was kind oflike, what is the word?
(38:05):
I told people that I was goingthrough some mental health
struggles, but I never mentionedthat I was really
underperforming.
I was really hiding.
I felt braver talking about themental health side then I felt
comfortable about talking abouthow I had failed at being an
employee.
I had failed at being just likea functioning person in society,
(38:29):
because there was so much shame.
Kristy Yee (38:30):
this idea of equating our value with our
productivity, even though weknow this concept is incorrect
and we don't agree with it, it'sstill affects us.
It.
We still feel like we have to beproductive members of the
society.
We have to like do well at workto validate our existence.
Really.
(38:50):
And if we underperform thenhush, hush, like let's not talk
about that.
It's just, let's talk, let'stalk about my mental health
instead.
Let's talk about how great it isthat I am taking time off.
And like, let's not talk aboutthat other gross part about how
I actually was not performingvery well.
And.
And I feel like in, in yoursituation, Lukas, it's, it's
(39:12):
different, but it's still verymuch work related.
Like a lot of these triggers,these events came from a
work-related environment and youwere consistently being
disappointed and you felt likeyou were doing really well.
And, but circumstances should,it happens.
She's just like hit the fan.
But you feel like, oh, it wasbecause I sucked.
Angie Yu (39:36):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (39:36):
was something to do with you when it really didn't
have anything to do with you.
And I, the control thing isactually something I'm working
on through therapy as well.
And it's something that I'verecently learned that I, I need
to have so much control in mylife.
Like I can't let that go.
And if I don't have control,then my anxiety starts
(39:59):
spiraling, you know?
And I wake up and I feel pangsof anxiety.
And a lot of times for me tomanage those physical symptoms
is mentally knowing that I havecontrol.
I'm going to do ABCD so that Iprevent X, Y, Z from happening.
Because in my mind, I'm like,all these bad things are going
(40:20):
to happen.
So in order for me to protectmyself, I need to have all this
control.
And so I don't have a goodexample to give you Lukas about
like, when am I in a situationwhere I didn't have control, but
I want to have control, or Itell myself I can control
because I just want control allthe damn fucking time.
And that's something I'm tryingto learn to just let go of, you
(40:44):
know,
Lucas Ng (40:45):
One of the major questions that I always ask,
like anyone who comes on to ourshow, our podcast is like, how
do you deal with the instabilityfirst thing, but also the lack
of control in our currentindustry.
Um, everyone that, that isn'taccurate that as a creative,
that as an artist, it is notnine to five.
(41:05):
There is no consistentpaychecks.
How do you deal mentally withthat?
Cause it, it is incrediblyrattling.
First of all, like I came fromlike, like an office background,
you know, you get off at likesix or seven or so, but you
know, if you're on.
Uh, it could be like a 6:00 AMcall time, which is when you're
there, but it could wrap up thatsay like 11:00 PM.
(41:26):
You just don't know.
So the, the major thing that Iam grappling with is I realize
too much control when I have toomuch control.
When it's too confined of, aspace, I started rebelling ASAP,
you know, I start fighting it.
I start just writing my email tomy friends and saying, I can't
deal with this, my personalbeliefs right now.
(41:47):
We're not coinciding with that.
but right now I am on theopposite end of everything right
now, you know, Um, I just haveto do a self-tape that I'm not
sure when they're going to befilming my acting classes.
I don't know when they're goingto restart up and this pandemic
has put a wrench into everylocus of control that I once had
before.
So just basically another thingthat.
(42:08):
Slowly trying to realize andgrapple within myself is, are
you okay with the lack ofcontrol?
Because if you aren't, you'reprobably in the wrong business,
but I love this business enoughthat I'm okay with this, with
this instability.
So it's, it's definitelysomething with, with what you
said.
It's like, I do wake up at timeswith anxiety because I don't
(42:29):
know what's going to happen thenday, but I try to take that same
anxiety and like direct it sothat I'm more focused, not on
edge, but at least energized forthe day then.
Angie Yu (42:39):
I think that's.
Lucas Ng (42:41):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (42:41):
Uh, a big part of that is kind of what we do in our
thirties.
The twenties is kind of likefiguring out who the fuck we are
in the thirties is reallyfiguring out what do we want in
life.
And for me, I'm the opposite.
Like I have a very stable, I'mvery privileged.
Even when I went on myshort-term leave.
When I went back to work,everyone was very welcoming to
(43:03):
have me back.
And they were kind of with, onthe journey with me.
And I'm so lucky to have that.
but my personality is that Iwant to do things that are
different.
I want to, like I want to becreative and I want to pursue
things that are not well paying.
But when I was doing my therapysessions, because I really had
this push and pull between myvalues and like what I want to
(43:26):
do, I realized that at the very,very core of my value, the thing
that I want the most in theworld is my own family.
So for you, your passion is thatyour, you love this industry.
So you're willing to, what wasthe word earlier that you used
recalibrate calibrate yourselfto this?
(43:46):
Right.
And I'm like, wow, I reallyrelate to what you're saying,
even though I'm the opposite isto calibrate so that I'm more
stable and I'm quote, unquotemore boring because it will
allow me to really have thething that I want the most in my
life.
And I feel like that's what ourthirties is about.
And you know, like you've beenthrough a lot and I feel like I,
(44:10):
this is such a cliche, but it'sthe whole like struggling artist
thing.
But I think like, even just fromtalking to you now, like I, I
see a difference between thisLukas versus the Lukas.
I met like two years ago.
Lucas Ng (44:22):
Oh
Kristy Yee (44:23):
oh do you tell what's the difference,
Angie Yu (44:25):
more peace and more maturity.
Kristy Yee (44:30):
even though he's been through more chaos.
I find that actually really nicebecause, or poetic even because
two years ago, Lukas, hasn'tstarted therapy and I'm not
allowed here to be like RA righttherapy though.
Sometimes we are like RAtherapy.
Angie Yu (44:44):
Yes.
Kristy Yee (44:44):
But I think like processing all the complexities
that have happened in all thechaos that has happened will
help you bring to a place ofmore peace, even though we're
still all working on it.
Like it's not, there's no finishline to this thing,
Lucas Ng (44:56):
no.
And thank you for bringing thatpoint up because one of the
major things, the major themesthat my therapist always talks
about is show compassion toyourself.
And it might sound cliche.
And at times it does, when Ihear it from, from like a, a non
welcoming mind, but.
one of the major things that shedoes says on repeat is.
(45:17):
Maybe at times you would lack tosupport you lack the care you'll
act the love that you're, thatyour childhood had, that your
former childhood with theunderstanding that you have now
as like a 30 year old in yourthirties as an adult, what can
you say to that younger selfright now?
Can you show him that that kindof same, love that attention,
(45:37):
that support that you craved,you know, tell that to that
little kid within you.
And I, at times kinda like breakdown for that, just because a
lot of things that we'relacking, we right now, as, as
capable adults can provide forour own self.
So tell that to your youngerself man, and that will bring at
least some resolution enclosure.
Angie Yu (45:58):
Absolutely.
The talking to your youngerself.
Kristy Yee (46:00):
Our listeners.
Can't see, but Angie and I arejust like vigorously
Angie Yu (46:04):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (46:05):
as Lukas is talking.
Angie Yu (46:07):
figuratively nodding, because that is one of the
strategies that's very useful.
And it's very common for areason, especially from people
from our backgrounds, becauseour parents did not provide that
kind of compassionate, emotionalsupport because it's not in our
culture.
And it doesn't mean they love usany less.
It's just, they don't knowbetter.
So for us to be like showingthat compassion to ourselves,
(46:30):
it's such a visceral experiencethat yeah, I cry every time too.
Therapy is one thing you haven'ttold your mom about why is that?
Lucas Ng (46:52):
Um, I mean, I can think of reasons why, why I have
not, and, and it doesn't comefrom shame, but it's what I am
more concerned about is, isessentially what we just talked
(47:12):
about.
Like, and again, I could beprojecting, but what I predict
her follow-up question will be,you know, like, Hey mom, I'm
going to therapy.
She'll be like, why, why are youdoing this?
and you know, uh, if I were tosay bluntly, it's like, cause I
didn't feel supported as achild, you know?
And I don't want to do thatconversation.
(47:33):
But in the same token though,and this also came out of moving
out to, I'd go back homeperiodically two or three times
a year, but, and I'm not sure ifthis is normal for every adult
life, but there seems to beevery time I come back, I see
them getting older.
I see them getting greater.
Their voice goes a little bitlower.
In addition to the time, thedistance of time, there is also
(47:57):
that kind of like at timesemotional distance, because I
don't think I can tell them alot of the stuff that I am going
through.
And every time my dad asks me,Hey, how are you in Toronto?
All I can really wrap her up isa it's going all right.
And it comes from a place that Idon't want to worry him, but why
I haven't told my mom why I'm intherapy.
(48:19):
It's just because it is a reallybig conversation that I know
will happen after that.
And I am just not ready yet togo into that with her yet, but
through time eventually, but not
Angie Yu (48:29):
Especially if they think that and knowing our
parents, they, you know, theydone so much for us to the best
of their ability.
They might be like, oh my God,this is all my fault.
I did not do a good job raisingyou.
Lucas Ng (48:42):
you hit that point because I am my father's son.
I am my mother's son, all oftheir great qualities.
My dad is the nicest humanalive.
My mom is the most caring.
She will drop everything to, to,to make sure you feel welcomed
in and supported, but in thesame way as though my dad,
(49:03):
because of his niceness maylack, emotional boundaries,
other people might have likehurt him to my mom because she
tries so hard to do everythingfor everybody, her inner
anxiety, always internalizes alot of things.
And I see that the good and thebad of them into me.
And so.
I really want to work throughthese, these, uh, these
(49:26):
qualities about myself before Igo into that conversation, just
because I am my father's son andI am my mother's son to,
Kristy Yee (49:33):
This is your way of showing love to your parents and
protecting them.
It's not to keep things awayfrom them, but for you to, you
know, get to a point where yousort through some of this stuff
first again, there's no finishline, but get to a place where
you are comfortable enoughbefore you tell them.
And in a way we physically seeour parents getting older.
(49:57):
I see that in my mum every day.
And it's, it's scary to see themget older and, and be fragile,
you know, like, like we are now,we are now in a place and in a
mindset where we are the ones totake care of our parents and we
are now the ones to protectthem.
(50:18):
And this is just another way foryou to protect your family right
now.
Lucas Ng (50:23):
absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, and it's kind ofbreathtaking too.
Cause right now I am at the agewhere my dad had me and two to
also realize that, I mean, Imight have lived more quote,
unquote life than my dadbecause, you know, he was kind
of stable.
He had a great job andeverything like that.
She didn't go through many likemass layoffs and firings.
(50:43):
But if I were to have a childright now, would I be perfect?
Would I be any better than mydad was knowing what I know now?
Of course I will try my best,but in the same token, like
what, like what you just said,Kristy, he did his best.
And Dan, well, I will also do mybest the moment I have a child
too, but I will also fail andnot be that great support system
(51:07):
for my future future child.
So just, we're all trying ourbest right now.
Kristy Yee (51:12):
Yeah, and I don't think there needs to be any
blaming
Lucas Ng (51:16):
Hm.
Kristy Yee (51:16):
and we're all human.
We're all gonna make mistakes.
We're all gonna fail.
Whether it's going to be arelationship with your children
or with your partner or whateverit is.
Cause we cannot be perfect humanbeings.
You cannot be a perfect father,Lukas, as much as you try to be,
but you're going to damn well,try to be anyways because that's
how we show love as people.
(51:37):
Right.
But I think what's important isthat at the end of the day is we
forgive other people for theirmistakes.
And then we try to learn fromthat.
And we also open up a communitywhere, where we allow people to
make mistakes and then getbetter, which is where
(51:57):
normalizing therapy, forexample.
And that's just one way to dothis is normalizing therapy to
be like, you know what?
I had a fucked up childhood.
I needed to sort some shit outI'm not trying to blame you, mom
and dad, but like I, I gotta dothis, you know, and then that
knowledge hopefully continuallygets passed down to the next
generation.
because trauma is not going toend.
(52:18):
Right.
As long as we create the spaceto sort out the trauma
afterwards, you know what Imean?
Like, I feel like that's thechange that I would like to see
in the future, be in a placewhere we are okay.
To talk about our trauma.
Lucas Ng (52:30):
Yeah.
And, and you kind of hit thenail to their Kristy, like the
shame and guilt that one mightfeel.
It really does come down toforgiveness of yourself.
Like after forgiveness ofyourself, then you can try to
look at solutions to take theweight off because there is a
lot of weight That we arecarrying.
So it's, it's okay to, toacknowledge the shame, but also
(52:54):
work towards bettering yourselffor your community for the
better of yourself too.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (52:59):
That's just, that's the takeaway, right?
It's just, yup.
Lucas Ng (53:04):
I feel
Angie Yu (53:05):
Like, honestly, like I am, I don't want to say
astounded.
Cause I think that gives toolittle credit to the Lukas that
I met two years ago.
But you know, like when I metyou, we were like is pre COVID.
So we met up, we were all likeout having fun drinking and
going to eat late pho and like,you know, like that yeah.
That's where we were.
(53:25):
I was 28 at the time and now I'm30.
And even though that's only twoyears, it has been a very
significant two years.
And it's to the sounds of it.
Like, it has been a verysignificant two years for you as
well.
And like, I don't know, I'mproud in
Lucas Ng (53:40):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (53:41):
even though it's not really my place to be because.
Why should I be proud?
Like I don't maybe proud is notthe maybe respect, just a lot
of, I feel a lot of respect foryou right now.
And it's so difficult, for menof our generation, because
there's so much toxicmasculinity floating around and
it's so difficult, especiallyfor Chinese men to go and see a
(54:03):
therapist to really let yourselffeel all the feels like that's
really difficult.
Like, you know, so I'm very, Irespect that a lot about you,
that you were able to take thestep.
Lucas Ng (54:17):
And thank you both of you for opening up this platform
though, it's it is astounding.
Like I'm listening to yourguys's episodes and the topics
that you do bring up.
Like most recently I waslistening to.
So the one that we're just, youtwo are talking and you talking
about like your, your suicidaltendencies and, and just
feelings.
And that is so raw, you know,it's I felt at times like I, I
(54:40):
could relate, but also at thesame time, it's like, I am.
Amazed at your level of opennessto really express these cause,
you know, because of how youexpressed it.
I also expressed how back when Ihad my first fighting.
Like I was about to jump in thelake, like we go through these
events, but it, it weighs a lotless on us, on us when we can
let the weight off a bit.
So thank you for opening up thatavenue for us to, you know,
(55:04):
unpackage it together.
Angie Yu (55:05):
it was our pleasure.
Yeah.
I can't, can't wait for otherpeople to share it.
And I can't wait to read slashwatch slash experience your work
in the industry.
Lucas Ng (55:16):
oh, thank you.
excited.
Yeah, I'll be fine.
Kristy Yee (55:18):
we will link all of Lukas's things in the show
notes.
Angie Yu (55:22):
Yeah.
And check him out.
check his podcasts out over at,have we made a, yet with his
comedic friend?
Comedic has comedian friend,Josh yang.
Lucas Ng (55:32):
Awesome.
Yay.
Give it up for you both.
It's
Angie Yu (55:35):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Kristy Yee (55:37):
Oh my goodness.
Someone's
Angie Yu (55:39):
and I guess, I guess in the industry, we say like
what, that's a wrap in yourindustry.
That's a wrap.
Lucas Ng (55:45):
Uh, We're calling
Angie Yu (55:47):
calling it.
Okay.
Lucas Ng (55:48):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (55:49):
Well, I'm calling it.
I'm going to stop.
but I never mentioned that I was really
underperforming.
I was really hiding.
I felt braver talking about themental health side then I felt
comfortable about talking abouthow I had failed at being an
employee.
I had failed at being just likea functioning person in society,
because there was so much shame.
Kristy Yee (00:46):
Welcome back to another episode of shit.
We don't tell mom today.
We have Lukas Ng joining us, heis a friend of Angie's.
He's also a fellow podcaster andhe hosts his own podcast with
his friend, Josh yang calledhave we made it yet talking
about ins and outs of making itin the entertainment industry?
So Lukas he's a Chinese Canadianactor currently living in
(01:09):
Toronto and Lukas was brought upin a pretty religious Chinese
family, and he wishes that wecould talk more openly about
shame and guilt.
So welcome Lukas
Lucas Ng (01:18):
hey everyone.
What an intro.
Thank you.
Kristy Yee (01:21):
I know I practiced every day in the mirror.
No, I did not.
Lucas Ng (01:24):
Love it.
Kristy Yee (01:25):
I'm excited because you grew up in a really
religious Chinese family.
I interpret this as very strict,very like lots of rules, et
cetera, et cetera so first off,like tell us more about your
childhood and what was it likegrowing up in that super
religious family upbringing?
Lucas Ng (01:44):
Yeah, I mean, I'm going through therapy.
Right.
You know, or I'm in therapy.
A lot of it is unpackaging thatchildhood that I was raised in,
Don't get me wrong.
It was, it was good.
I was never in want.
I was never in need of anything.
I had a whole community of likechurch going friends and
everything like that, that I,that I grew up with.
And it was, it was really goodto at least have a community of
(02:05):
people that I can always rely onback in my childhood, but just
unpacking it and looking at itfrom like a 10 year distance
road.
It was a lot of, it was based onlike a, a punitive fear that I
constantly had whenever I wantedto either mentally or physically
step out of this kind of amindset that I had.
(02:27):
I would say about like my firstyear in university, when I
realized I can't do thislifestyle anymore.
That my faith could not give methe openness to experience life
as I wanted to.
And that going into my firstlike public institution, which
is a university, because priorto that, I was always in a
(02:48):
private, elementary school, evenin a private high school that
university really opened my eyesto, to a much bigger world that
I could experience.
And when I did experience it,that's when the first, uh, felt
shame in experiencing somethingnew.
Angie Yu (03:02):
what do you mean by shame and feeling something new?
Like, did you feel like, yeah.
W what do you mean by that?
Lucas Ng (03:08):
Yeah first off, I think what separates, say, uh,
white Christianity, as opposedto, um, say Chinese Christianity
is that.
a lot of Christian principlescan be, this is, this is for a
lack of a better word, but canbe twisted in, in a way that,
that amplifies the Chinese side.
So the Chinese side, of course,as we kind of know, Um,
(03:31):
emphasize the, the collectiveemphasizes that we all roll
together we all think the samething in everything.
And so the moment that I wasexposed to something new, I felt
like I was breaking rank.
I was going rogue.
And w at the moment, evenmentally, when I started
stepping outside of that kind ofmind frame, you know, you start
(03:51):
taking a look back and you, andyou realize no one is really
going with you.
And that's where that initialshame does come from that the
unknowing.
The unknowing and also thepresence that you have behind
you is not there anymore.
And so you, you mightmisconstrue that feeling of
stepping out as that's somethingimmoral and that that's where
(04:13):
that initial feeling of shamecomes from.
Kristy Yee (04:15):
it almost sounds like, you know, you were brought
up in this community, thisChristian faith community, and
you were very comfortable there.
And you know, you had friends,family, you were in private
school.
Was this a Christian privateschool?
I'm assuming.
Lucas Ng (04:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (04:30):
And then when you went into post-secondary.
And you were exposed to a lotmore.
I don't want differentideologies and mindsets, et
cetera.
You realize that, oh, there isother things outside of this
bubble, this community that Iwas so comfortable in and
stepping outside of that bubbleto learn more about it made you
feel kind of isolated becauseyou turn around and nobody else
(04:53):
is there with you.
Nobody else from your communityis walking along this journey
with you.
And you also feel like you'rekind of like turning your back
on your people.
Lucas Ng (05:01):
exactly.
Like, like great point aboutturning back because it, and
this is like kind of cringy attimes too.
Like I remember again in likemy, my second year of
university, When I like reallywanted to cut ties with the
church and everything.
I remember I wrote an email tomy like close friends back at
church.
I was like, sorry, guys.
(05:21):
I can't go to Bible study.
And more, my beliefs currentlyjust can't coincide with the
beliefs back of the church andlooking back it's like, why do
you have to do that only becausewhy did you have to make your
cuts so explicit?
Like there's no point.
but yeah, like, like to yourpoint though, it, it, it is that
kind of like stuffing steppingout and then looking around you
and realizing, okay, we're backat square one.
(05:41):
I have to create my new group.
I have to create a new identityand.
Out of that new identity couldcome great things, but also
shame and guilt is related tothat too.
Angie Yu (05:51):
When you say that you felt like it was cringy when you
wrote that email?
I actually think that's reallybrave.
I feel like that, like you said,you wrote an email to them
because it coincided with thefact that your beliefs are no
longer aligned and it wassomething that they would not
do.
Right.
Because it's so explicit sayit's so direct, but I feel like
(06:11):
that coincides exactly aboutwhere you were mentally and
emotionally with your spiritualside is that you felt like I
Renegade.
So for you to write them anemail, it's kinda like, well,
that's kinda like very parallel.
We're very on brand for you.
Lucas Ng (06:31):
Yeah.
Thanks.
Like, I, I never thought of itlike, like a Renegade, but, but
yeah, I guess so, I mean, Uh,one of the main things that, uh,
that I wrote in my journalbefore coming on here was like,
I was raised to think that I wasnever anything, you know, I was
raised to, you know, of coursefinished my undergrad, going
(06:52):
into the family business and uh,and continue with life, continue
on with that Ng legacy, youknow, but, you know, essentially
I broke ranks with my Christianlife.
I broke ranks with was likeliving with my girlfriend
outside of wedlock, leaving homebefore I got married and all
that stuff.
And now like Pursuing acting andgoing into the entertainment
field, all of these things rightnow have just really amplified
(07:16):
that kind of, I guess at times,fight in me I was always raised
up to think that I was nothing,but I always want to reclaim
that, that I am something.
And I guess that that fight hasalways been there even prior to
me moving out to Toronto.
Kristy Yee (07:30):
I think that's incredibly.
Okay.
I'm going to I'm like brave.
Wait.
And you just said that God damnit.
Angie Yu (07:36):
I'm really impressed.
I'm Lukas, I only hung out withyou like once or twice, know in
Toronto.
Uh, but I, I wish I had knowlike known you more intimately
longer because like, I'm just soastounded by this journey.
You're going through with thejourney that has started a while
ago.
Like, even with the fact thatyou're in therapy, like, I don't
(07:59):
think I can list my handful ofpeople.
That are men that are going totherapy.
Lucas Ng (08:05):
And I'll be honest, there's, of course there's a lot
of like financial barriers goingto therapy and everything.
And, and I have to give, propsto my girlfriend, you know, I am
in a position right now wheremy, you know, incoming.
Decreased incredibly, you know,I used to have a cool job back
working at visual effects, youknow, of course benefits and
everything, but right now I'm anactor, so there's not a lot of
(08:26):
stuff.
So I need to like work aflexible job, all that, to say,
it's my girlfriend's benefitsthat have allowed me to position
to go into therapy.
and explore that.
But it was also because of her,that she exposed something
within me.
That that was really powerfulbecause, and this might divert
from the story, but, I guess wewere going through a rough patch
it was, it was always hard.
(08:46):
This was pre COVID too andeverything.
And she, and I both realized wecan't be each other's
everything.
you know, I expected and thisis, this is bad.
I expected her to be my bestfriend, my confidant, my
counselor, my therapist.
At times even anonymous shame tosay this at times, even like my
emotional punching bag, becauseit was just, I had so much angst
(09:07):
in me at times and she justsaid, Lukas, I can't be your
everything.
This is ridiculous.
You know, we don't always havejust one friend.
you.
know, we have a dentist, we havea electrician, we have all this
other stuff.
it was because of that commentthat she made that really pushed
me towards growth and finding athird party to, to go into these
(09:28):
deep seated issues that I, thatI had.
and so just props to her forgiving me that opportunity to
go.
Kristy Yee (09:33):
I can't be your, everything.
I think that is such a, that'sgoing to be one of our takeaways
already.
We're only like 10 minutes intothis conversation, you know,
because I think oftentimes likewhen we are in a relationship we
spend so much time with thisperson.
We feel the most comfortable,most vulnerable with this
person.
And we end up carrying a lot ofexpectations for this other
person and we just keep throwingit at them and it doesn't help
(09:54):
with like media doesn't help.
Lucas Ng (09:56):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (09:57):
Telling us that this person is your number one and
they are your best friend andconfidant and et cetera.
And they totally can be, but ahuman only has so much capacity
and they have their own shitgoing on too.
And we need to respect that aswell.
Oftentimes we don't remember,especially when we are going
through our own stuff and I saythis from a personal level, and
I think Angie can relate aswell.
(10:17):
Cause like when I go through mydepression phases, the first
person I think about turning towould be my boyfriend because
that's the person I am like theclosest person in my life.
Right.
The person that I love and whatI always have to actively do is
remind myself that I can'talways just put my shit onto
this one person.
Like I got to spread out myload, you know, and we've said
(10:38):
this in previous episodesbefore, but you got to spread to
shit.
You know, you gotta spread thatshit out.
And not only does that help yourealize that there's actually a
lot of support in your circle.
It also helps them realize that,oh, it's okay to be vulnerable
with not just your significantother, but with other people as
well.
And, and overall, I'm notburdening someone with all of my
(11:01):
load.
Lucas Ng (11:02):
Yeah.
And, and, and, and you touchedupon that great point too.
It's, it's spreading, literallyspreading the load because one
person already has their owninternal shit that they're
dealing with.
Maybe not visibly.
They are dealing with itinternally, already themselves.
And you as a selfish personcoming through and unloading
more of your stuff onto anotherperson who is already dealing
(11:23):
with their own stuff, it's goingto overflow.
They're going to grow resentmenttowards you and they don't want
to listen to you anymore.
And so just for the sake of ourrelationship and I'm sure for,
for yourself too, just for therelationship, it's best to
almost sometimes just keep somethings to yourself and spread it
to other people.
Of course, don't, don't spreadtoxicity and all that stuff, but
(11:44):
at the same time, Like we needhelp.
And sometimes our own intimatepartners are not the best people
at
Angie Yu (11:50):
Yeah.
Like everyone has their ownspecialization and your partner
can also specialize ineverything.
they can't be like forsupporting beams in your life.
They can only be one or two,sometimes three.
And then you have other peoplethat are also one or two or
sometimes three, like theyrotate.
Right.
(12:12):
Actually the point you bought,brought up about how.
It was kind of when your partnerwent, Hey, I can't be your,
everything that you started tothink, you know what?
I'm relying too much on her.
Um, I'm not relying on myselfenough or not relying on the
other support systems in my lifeenough.
And I can relate to that a lotbecause my last relationship
(12:32):
ended on a very soured note.
There wasn't enoughcommunication because during the
rough patch that I had wentthrough with this person, I was
like at my most depressed ever,but I didn't know how to, I
didn't even know I wasdepressed.
and it was just a law for theother person, but the other
person didn't also didn't havethe emotional tools to deal with
that either.
(12:53):
So the relationship ended.
I started seeing a therapist andI've been seeing her since, and
during the period of time, I wassingle.
I was alone actually, when Iwent to Toronto, that was part
of my, like whole single gettingto know myself better.
Like I went to Toronto alone, Imet up with different friends.
I went to Quebec, like, it wasso much fun just getting to know
myself again.
(13:13):
Right.
And, um, so I did that for along time.
And then I met my currentboyfriend, end of last year and
everything was going reallygreat.
I was seeing my therapist a bitless as well because I was
running out of stuff to talk toher about because I had worked
through so much, so much of myproblem on my own, but then the
triggers that had been therethat was difficult to work with
(13:34):
on your own, because there'sonly so much that can happen
when you're by yourself.
With things started to happenwith my current boyfriend.
I couldn't work through thetriggers alone.
So I had just started seeing mytherapist again.
And I remember one of the thingsthat she said that really
resonated with me.
And I think it's so parallel towhat you're saying is that.
Because I was so codependent,like emotionally co-dependent
(13:56):
with my last boyfriend, it feltlike we didn't even have to
communicate because we wouldknow what each other was
thinking.
And then I was telling her likehow, like, I have trouble
communicating with my currentboyfriend and it sounded like it
was his problem, but it wasactually my problem because I
was expecting him to read mymind and I'm like, I just want
him to know everything about methat way.
Then I don't have to communicate
Lucas Ng (14:18):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (14:19):
so much easier.
Um, and then
Kristy Yee (14:21):
I was just supposed to know all this stuff.
If you don't
Angie Yu (14:23):
yeah, well that too, right.
I'm like, oh, I know, like he'snot going to know anything, but
she was also like, is itreasonable to expect one person
to know all of you?
And then I'm like, you knowwhat?
Yeah, it's not.
And it wasn't until she put thatquestion now that I was like,
oh, I never thought about that.
That way.
She's like, isn't it moreinteresting.
To have a relationship where youcontinuously find out things
(14:45):
about the other person andcontinuously have that emotional
bond.
And I was like, oh, damn.
Lucas Ng (14:52):
Yeah.
There is a really big thing tospeak to about like, discovering
new things about your partner.
Like of course, I mean, you canask the basic questions, like
you discovered that her newfavorite color or something like
that, but I've been with mygirlfriend for officially since
like 2013.
So right now we're at eightyears now, almost close to nine
and, you know, none of myrelationships prior to this has
(15:13):
ever lasted this long, ofcourse, But there's something
about knowing a person sointimately that like, you know,
their triggers, you know, whatcan set them apart?
You know, what can, what canreally hurt them?
What can really make them happyand everything.
But even though you might knowso much stuff, there is still
something that maybe it's an offday too, but you say one thing
(15:33):
and it's like, it kind ofspirals out and it kind of
relates back to like, anotherthing that you might've said
prior, but it's just thisconstant learning that you
always have to do to recalibrateyourself, which, which comes out
of like going into therapy.
So you know how to be like, be abetter person
Angie Yu (15:49):
Yeah.
And when I talked to mytherapist, I'll like, she'll say
something and then I'll go offinto this days where I'm
thinking and she'll be like,what are you thinking?
And I would be like, I was like,well, we always talk about how
it's a journey in getting toknow ourselves.
Why would we expect to knowsomeone else in such a short
amount of time, it's a journeyand getting to know yourself
better.
(16:09):
It's also a journey and gettingto know the other person better.
And, and that that's exactlylike what you said.
Like, even though you have beentogether for almost nine years
and you know, all these littlethings about each other and you
avoid the triggers and you dothings to make each other happy,
but Hey, maybe they're having abad day and then something comes
up or like something in theirlife changes.
And like, you never know, it'sstill a journey.
Kristy Yee (16:30):
And, you know, people change.
And I like that wordrecalibrating because you may
think, you know, someone really,really well, but every single
day, us as humans, we encounterdifferent people.
We encounter differentexperiences.
We see different memes onInstagram.
You know what I mean?
Like our thoughts change, ouropinions can change.
(16:52):
And like we grow as humans and,I'm growing because I'm trying
to learn more about myself and,and therapy helps with that.
And it sounds like therapy ishelping you on that journey to
Lukas.
And as we keep growing, we arechanging every day.
And so our.
And us as partners, we need toalso recalibrate and grow and
(17:14):
learn with them to
Lucas Ng (17:15):
yeah.
It's so true.
A big reason, again, like why Iwent to therapy.
It was just because life reallyhappened in Toronto.
like, I was fired from my firstjob here, which is to this day,
I'm still in therapy because whyI initially went into therapy.
It was just my incredibleability to just negative.
Self-talk constantly aboutmyself to the point where my
(17:38):
girlfriend was just, you go tosee someone about this.
You, I don't want to be withsomeone who's constantly putting
themselves down.
And if there was a triggeringevent, it was that first firing
because it rattled me at my coreto my own self-confidence so
life just happens and, it'sincredible how much it can.
It can really wrap.
Kristy Yee (17:59):
Do you want to tell us a little bit more about that?
that event
Lucas Ng (18:02):
yeah, yeah, for sure.
Um, uh, it's still a work inprogress and all that stuff too.
But, uh, so w um, me and mygirlfriend, we, we came to
Toronto, back in 20, 20 14.
we, we moved here jobless andhomeless.
It's a cool story.
Like, I'm still writing like ascreenplay about it and all that
stuff to, uh, yeah.
(18:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Because life really happened inthe city.
we were, again, we came herejobless and homeless.
I found the place that we'recurrently in still right now.
And thank goodness, we're stillpaying good rent and it's a
great place in downtown.
but the first objective, when wefirst got here was to look for a
jobs to get some income comingin.
and I was pursuing my mediadreams.
(18:45):
So I was, I was only going towork at like TV studios or like
animation studios.
Luckily I found a job prettyfast at an animation studio.
that's still producing greatstuff.
It's the state right now.
I was working in marketingthere, and met some great
people, but my direct reportswere just w I guess we just
weren't compatible, but to beput at bluntly, like, I don't
(19:05):
think they're that good ofpeople to begin with.
constant managerial changes frommy boss to eventually the point
where the owner of the companyjust said to my boss.
That, uh, they did not trustworking with me anymore because.
Some issues that were not, thatwere above my control.
And, uh, they let me go.
(19:27):
And I still remember walkinginto the HR office that day,
that Monday morning thinking Iwas gonna possibly get a
promotion because I had reallyproved myself for a lot of ways.
And then getting sat down andjust said, here's this letter,
please vacate the premisesimmediately.
Angie Yu (19:41):
God.
Lucas Ng (19:42):
And I don't.
Yeah.
And, uh, I remember walking,walking out and still in
complete shock.
I remember sitting at aStarbucks that I was nearby and
I've never said this out loudactually, but like we were, we
lived kind of close by the lakeand I remember like
contemplating the idea of likejumping in.
(20:05):
Like, it was just so much shameand the worst part of it.
And it just reminded me.
My parents were in town visitingme that week.
like walking and then, I mean,I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie
to them about this stuff.
Cause eventually like, comeTuesday the next day, they're
(20:26):
going to say like, what, whyaren't you at work?
You know, I can't make up thatwhole lie.
So I just told them on that day.
And I remember walking to theAirbnb and it was the same face
of disappointment that my dadhad when I like failed my, my L
license three times.
Kristy Yee (20:45):
For our international listeners, that's
a, that's the learner's driver's
Angie Yu (20:49):
Yeah.
It's a written test that youhave to take so that you can
actually start learning how tolearn, how to drive, like in the
actual car.
Uh, don't worry.
I also failed
Kristy Yee (20:59):
that you are allowed to learn how
Angie Yu (21:00):
Yeah, yeah,
Kristy Yee (21:01):
I also felt the L two, so it's no shame.
Angie Yu (21:04):
And I did not read the book and yeah.
Anyway also failed the threetimes.
Lucas Ng (21:10):
Nice, nice.
nice.
Yeah, so I remember like himsitting across from my, my mom
was like standing with her armscrossed and they weren't mad.
They were just disappointed and,and just maybe slightly
embarrassed at the same time,too.
And if there's anything that younever wanted to point, of course
disappoint yourself.
(21:31):
You, you feel it, but to alsolike to support your parents in
the most visceral of ways thatthat's what really stuck out to
me and to this day, it's I can,I'm still working through the
emotions of it.
Cause I, I know I was firedunjustly and, but it, it got me
to that point, you know, Whatelse could I have done?
(21:54):
What else could I have saved myjob?
You know?
and then all I internalized allof that and it manifested itself
into incredibly low talk aboutmyself like Lukas.
Remember when you're, when youthought that you were raised up
to be shit, you know, that youain't shit all well, it's true.
You know, remember when you werelike fired from your job.
(22:16):
Yeah.
You know, that's that justconfirms everything.
So like to this day, even thoughit's like about three, five
years ago now, I still catchmyself at times when I'm doing
something really monotonous, youknow, like putting clothes away.
And I have my manager's voice inmy head, screaming at me for
doing something wrong.
Quote, unquote, wrong.
(22:36):
And.
I am still working on it becausethese triggers really kind of
have a way to just press at myown core identity and, and
rattles it.
So it's, it's something that I'mstill working through to this
day.
Angie Yu (22:49):
My heart really like dropped when you were telling
that story, like, I can hear thepain that you went through, but
I can also hear a lot of healingas well as cheesy as that
sounds.
I do hear that and I'm happythat you're here and I think
it's, there's always shame andguilt bell thinking.
Hey, maybe I'll walk into thelake or like my parents are here
(23:11):
and I've just disappointed themagain.
It's shame and guilt.
And, it's again, it's like alifelong journey of working
through it and the wholenegative self-talk thing, like
you said, you were expecting apromotion and you thought
everything was going reallywell.
And it's just, whew, man, that'srough being blindsided by your
managers who are supposed tocare about your wellbeing and
(23:32):
their own wellbeing.
But from the sounds of it, likethis manager was yelling at you
or shouting at you for doingsomething, quote, unquote,
wrong.
Fuck that guy.
Kristy Yee (23:40):
you know, you mentioned, you felt like that
firing was unjust, you and Angiementioned the expectation of you
feeling like, oh, I might get apromotion to being completely
180 around that drop is even waymore intense than if you had no
expectation at all from HR.
Right?
Cause then your, your fall won'tbe as impactful.
(24:01):
But what your manager did saywas, oh, we can't trust you.
I thought that was reallycurious because they make it
sound like it's something, theyjust put the, all the blame on
you
Lucas Ng (24:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean it, yeah.
Kristy Yee (24:19):
trust is a huge thing, right?
Like it's a, it's a secret thingthat we all value a lot in, in
any sort of relationship and themanager to say like, Hey, we're
going to let you go because wecan't trust you anymore.
That's a huge slap in the face.
And just completely saying, thisis all you Lukas.
It's not our fault.
(24:41):
So that, that break of trust, ifyou like, I did something wrong
and now you can't trust meanymore.
I feel like if, if that were tohappen to me, that would just
add fuel to the fire of negativeself-talk because it's now a
blame on you, Lukas.
And that's what shame is.
Shame is us blaming ourselves,labeling ourselves as stupid, as
(25:03):
incompetent as you suck.
Right?
It's not, oh, I did somethingthat was stupid.
It was like, I'm stupid.
Right.
And what they said was like, oh,you, you, you, you didn't do
something that was quote unquotewrong.
It's like, I can't trust youanymore.
Lukas that's so I don't know.
I don't, I don't even know howto explain this in words, but I
(25:25):
feel like you're getting whatI'm
Angie Yu (25:26):
It's it takes it to such a personal level.
Like not
Kristy Yee (25:30):
Yeah.
They just personally
Angie Yu (25:32):
you.
Yeah.
And the thing is like, Hey, Ican trust you.
Well, maybe the problem is you.
And the thing is with fairings,it's not like a relationship
where you can like, there'sokay.
Most relationships don't endwell, but like at least there is
a chance that you can talkthings through with the other
person.
And
Kristy Yee (25:51):
What have you most relationships don't end well.
Angie Yu (25:54):
okay.
Not most, but like, I would saylike maybe a good chunk of
relationships out theresometimes.
And on a sour note, especiallyif it's like the first
relationship, you know?
Cause that's when you don'treally know what to expect.
but the thing is like, peopledon't expect work to be like a
two way thing and your managersand the people you work with
have so much authority over youthat it's like, it's really
(26:14):
unfair.
And it's.
I think it can even be moredetrimental than like a
relationship relationship.
Lucas Ng (26:21):
definitely.
that there is something about,getting fired that really does
hit at your core of capability.
of your industrial input andthis is all wrong because a
person's worth is not dictatedon their industrial output.
That's all like capitalismbullshit, you know?
but there's something about,first of all, not having, not
(26:42):
being able to actually like, youknow, contribute, but there is
also something I felt, a personhaving that much power over you
that they can actually strip allof that away from you at a
moment's notice and take awayliterally your livelihood.
I remember it was my first timegoing on EI after this whole
incident.
(27:03):
And, and just for listeners, ifyou did want to get this in th
th I, I didn't like steal anymoney.
It's this isn't like anythinglike trust, really trust
related.
And it was just because theywanted me to talk to a client
about a project, but I hadtalked to the client about
project B based onmisunderstand.
Really something simple.
but there's something about theshame again, that, that you go
through after getting fired,because then you have to go to
(27:25):
an EI and then understandingthat whole process of starting
again.
And you, you know, back inVancouver and when everything
was kind of comfortable, you'dnever really had a second
thought about like, you know,I'll get take out whatever, but
then you're literally countingthe cents in a city that has
minus 30 winters.
You know, of course, heat, wegot the heat, but there's
(27:48):
something just miserable aboutbeing alone and having to rattle
your own self-confidence andhaving to do it in a new city
and then having to re-establishyourself again.
So if there's anything that Ijust really learned, it's the
resiliency involved in findingyourself, but also pursuing your
dream.
You have to be incrediblyresilient.
Angie Yu (28:08):
Wow
Kristy Yee (28:09):
Yep, because you were just throwing all these
negative circumstances.
While being in a brand new citylike that alone is already a, a
huge change in anybody's life.
But you have to manage all ofthese expectations from your
family and friends of course.
Right?
Like, cause that that'simportant too.
And we feel ashamed about goingon EI and EI is employment
(28:33):
income.
Is that right?
Insurance,
Lucas Ng (28:36):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (28:36):
it's insurance from the government.
They give you some money whenyou lose a job.
Angie Yu (28:41):
I mean, we pay into it, but yeah.
Kristy Yee (28:43):
you feel ashamed.
Yeah.
And, and I relate because I wason EI once and I didn't tell my
friends because it's shameful.
Like I, I feels embarrassing tosay, and you have to manage all
of that while being in a newcity and your parents are in
town.
Like there's so much stuffhappening.
So I feel like.
(29:04):
What am I saying?
I'm not not saying negative.
Self-talk is, oh God.
Now I'm labeling shit.
Okay.
See, this is great because I'mgetting uncomfortable.
Angie Yu (29:14):
I know what you mean.
Like you don't want to, youknow, I, I think I know where
you're going with this, but
Kristy Yee (29:19):
I want to, I want to validate that it's so easy to
slip into the negative self-talkspace because your manager, what
happened at work in thatincident, they already put a
lot, they were the one thatsparked the fire, but then they
also added some gasoline bythrowing the trust thing at you,
right.
By just totally shaming you andbeing like, this is all your
(29:40):
fault, Lukas.
Right?
so you internalize that and yousay that this is my fault.
And you use that as an example,to validate your own self
worthlessness
Lucas Ng (29:50):
Spot on.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Angie Yu (29:52):
Really well said.
Lucas Ng (30:55):
I never really dealt with that negative self-talk
until recently until like about2020.
So this was about like.
five years removed from, sinceI've noticed it within me and
wanted to cure it.
But there is a certain pointthat, just your, your natural
need for, for, for like foodand, and just to, to make
yourself kind of worthy, likefinding a job then became like
(31:19):
the number one priority again.
So I never dealt with any ofthose kind of mental aspects
that I had in my life.
And that actually led me into abigger fire that I was in.
So I was out of the frying panand into the fire after that.
Because it was about like abouteight months of like
joblessness, you know,constantly applying for jobs and
everything like that.
Eventually found a great job atanother animation studio.
(31:41):
and I should have known thisfrom day one, but like, there
was a lot of like grumblingsthat like things were not going
well in terms of its foundation,literal foundation.
And back when it was stillthere, this was the biggest
animation studio in all ofCanada.
Like it rivaled Pixar in termsof like people.
that they had working for them,through just constant.
Uh, bosses my boss gettingconstantly a rotating door.
(32:05):
The CCO that creative chiefofficer asked me directly after
my boss was fired.
She just said, Hey, uh, what doyou want to be Lukas?
What do you want to be?
And I was like, I want to be indevelopment.
I want to read scripts.
And I want to eventuallyGreenlight projects for the
studio.
She's like, okay, cool.
Let's do this.
You'll be my protege.
You'll be my second.
(32:26):
You'll be my number two.
You'll read all the scripts I'mreading.
You'll see all the developmeetings we're going through.
I'm like, this is it.
I found my dream position.
This is amazing.
I can go to LA with this oneday, I can go back to Vancouver
and like develop great Rick andMorty, like projects, you know,
one day it's going to be awesomea month after she said.
(32:46):
But there were constant therumblings of the company going
under or getting more and moreand more louder eventually to
the point where after an Augustlong weekend, I was on city news
and I saw my company name onthere and it said, my company
name bankrupt, all 500employees, including myself, all
lost their jobs on that sameday.
Angie Yu (33:06):
whoa.
Kristy Yee (33:07):
Oh, my God.
Angie Yu (33:08):
500 people.
Holy crap.
Lucas Ng (33:11):
And the most fucked up thing was they were still hiring
people up until the day theywent under, people were coming
in from London, from the UK.
They were thinking they weregoing to get PR sponsorships.
So like I'm thankful I wasn't ona plane.
And then realizing I had no, nomore, no more work, but I just
remembered.
I thought I had found my dream.
(33:32):
But so then wake up the nextday, finding out on a plastic
sheet of paper from on thestudio class, front door saying,
sorry, we can't pay our lendersanymore.
The studio was now locked out tofinding out you have nothing.
Now again, it incredibly rattledme again because I thought I had
something and again, back tonothing.
(33:53):
And then I was second in notcommand, but like closest to the
CCO, to this person who issupposed to know everything
about the company, but she kepteverything from me.
And then again, I internalizethat I'm like, I was so close.
I should have known why didn't,you know, Lukas, you know,
everyone was kind of asking you,but you were you just too dumb
(34:14):
to know, are you that bad atyour job, Lukas?
And that really rattled me tothe point where I got.
I don't think I could've likegone on any, any worse, you
know, and again, I did not dealwith those issues of negative
self-talk again, but they wereeven more amplified after that
experience.
Kristy Yee (34:33):
It's like you, you are constantly going through
this series of disappointment,these like highs and low
disappointments being put insituations that you don't have
control over, but youinternalize that it is your own
fault.
Lucas Ng (34:47):
Yeah.
And I'm wondering like, likeI'll throw this out to you guys,
like, like, do, do you, do youfeel at times you internalize
these kinds of events that youdon't have control over as a
control for mechanism as acontrol mechanism so that you
kind of feel like you still havecontrol over your own life?
Is that how.
Angie Yu (35:04):
Wait say that again?
Lucas Ng (35:06):
Yeah.
Like, like you internalizethings that you really have no
control over as a want tocontrol them.
Kristy Yee (35:16):
Um, I'm thinking, like being in a situation where
I don't have control, but I tellmyself that I have control to
feel like I have control.
Lucas Ng (35:25):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (35:25):
see.
I see.
So denial.
Oh yeah.
I haven't, I haven't been inthat situation many, many, many
times where I'm in denial.
Yeah, actually.
So same thing I have, experiencewith like failing at something
like a career after the end ofmy last relationship where I was
going through a really, reallyrough time.
(35:47):
It actually started even beforethe relationship was ending.
My whole journey with depressionkind of started when a friend of
mine who's from Toronto, tookhis own life and it just
shattered me to my core and ithit me really hard, like harder
than anybody.
That we know, like, we, we allknew him.
It was when I was in China, uh,doing a co-op and like everyone
(36:11):
who knew him was obviouslydevastated, but I really clung
onto it.
And it wasn't until later intherapy, I realized this because
like I related a lot to hiscondition, and just really
suppressing that side of you.
And it just hadn't gotten worseand worse and worse.
And I was losing control.
(36:31):
I work and I just, I kept sayinglike, I'm in control, I'm in
control.
But my head was like, basically,like, I was just like,
everything I did was just tokeep my nose from being above
the wall.
But I had absolutely, but I wasin so much denial and then I
just couldn't like, everythingjust came crashing down.
I went into work one day and Ijust looked like absolute shit.
And I walked up to one of thepartners who was not one of my
(36:54):
direct bosses.
I walked up to him and I'm like,do we have coverage for mental
health?
Just straight up?
And he was so caught off guard.
He's like, oh, uh, yeah.
I was like, okay, cool.
And then I just walked away.
And then later that day hemessaged me.
He emailed me before he wenthome.
He's like, Hey, I'm sorry.
I didn't react very well tothat.
Uh, let's have coffee tomorrowmorning.
(37:16):
He's like, I have a clientmeeting at 10, but let's, let's
go for a chat at like nine.
And I was like, oh no, if youhave, you know, I was still
pushing it.
I was like, oh no, don't worryabout it.
Like if you have a clientmeeting, it's all good.
Obviously again, denial.
And then we ended up going forcoffee and.
As soon as we sat down, I juststarted crying and that was the
(37:37):
day I went on my short-termleave.
Kristy Yee (37:40):
because someone finally gave you permission to
feel these
Angie Yu (37:42):
yeah.
Someone gave me permission to belike, Hey, you don't have to be
productive.
Go get better.
And then from that day on, I wason like a 17 week short-term
disability leave.
And yeah, I was on like, samething, insurance, not EI but
like, um, like short-termdisability insurance.
And like, and it was kind oflike, what is the word?
(38:05):
I told people that I was goingthrough some mental health
struggles, but I never mentionedthat I was really
underperforming.
I was really hiding.
I felt braver talking about themental health side then I felt
comfortable about talking abouthow I had failed at being an
employee.
I had failed at being just likea functioning person in society,
(38:29):
because there was so much shame.
Kristy Yee (38:30):
this idea of equating our value with our
productivity, even though weknow this concept is incorrect
and we don't agree with it, it'sstill affects us.
It.
We still feel like we have to beproductive members of the
society.
We have to like do well at workto validate our existence.
Really.
(38:50):
And if we underperform thenhush, hush, like let's not talk
about that.
It's just, let's talk, let'stalk about my mental health
instead.
Let's talk about how great it isthat I am taking time off.
And like, let's not talk aboutthat other gross part about how
I actually was not performingvery well.
And.
And I feel like in, in yoursituation, Lukas, it's, it's
(39:12):
different, but it's still verymuch work related.
Like a lot of these triggers,these events came from a
work-related environment and youwere consistently being
disappointed and you felt likeyou were doing really well.
And, but circumstances should,it happens.
She's just like hit the fan.
But you feel like, oh, it wasbecause I sucked.
Angie Yu (39:36):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (39:36):
was something to do with you when it really didn't
have anything to do with you.
And I, the control thing isactually something I'm working
on through therapy as well.
And it's something that I'verecently learned that I, I need
to have so much control in mylife.
Like I can't let that go.
And if I don't have control,then my anxiety starts
(39:59):
spiraling, you know?
And I wake up and I feel pangsof anxiety.
And a lot of times for me tomanage those physical symptoms
is mentally knowing that I havecontrol.
I'm going to do ABCD so that Iprevent X, Y, Z from happening.
Because in my mind, I'm like,all these bad things are going
(40:20):
to happen.
So in order for me to protectmyself, I need to have all this
control.
And so I don't have a goodexample to give you Lukas about
like, when am I in a situationwhere I didn't have control, but
I want to have control, or Itell myself I can control
because I just want control allthe damn fucking time.
And that's something I'm tryingto learn to just let go of, you
(40:44):
know,
Lucas Ng (40:45):
One of the major questions that I always ask,
like anyone who comes on to ourshow, our podcast is like, how
do you deal with the instabilityfirst thing, but also the lack
of control in our currentindustry.
Um, everyone that, that isn'taccurate that as a creative,
that as an artist, it is notnine to five.
(41:05):
There is no consistentpaychecks.
How do you deal mentally withthat?
Cause it, it is incrediblyrattling.
First of all, like I came fromlike, like an office background,
you know, you get off at likesix or seven or so, but you
know, if you're on.
Uh, it could be like a 6:00 AMcall time, which is when you're
there, but it could wrap up thatsay like 11:00 PM.
(41:26):
You just don't know.
So the, the major thing that Iam grappling with is I realize
too much control when I have toomuch control.
When it's too confined of, aspace, I started rebelling ASAP,
you know, I start fighting it.
I start just writing my email tomy friends and saying, I can't
deal with this, my personalbeliefs right now.
(41:47):
We're not coinciding with that.
but right now I am on theopposite end of everything right
now, you know, Um, I just haveto do a self-tape that I'm not
sure when they're going to befilming my acting classes.
I don't know when they're goingto restart up and this pandemic
has put a wrench into everylocus of control that I once had
before.
So just basically another thingthat.
(42:08):
Slowly trying to realize andgrapple within myself is, are
you okay with the lack ofcontrol?
Because if you aren't, you'reprobably in the wrong business,
but I love this business enoughthat I'm okay with this, with
this instability.
So it's, it's definitelysomething with, with what you
said.
It's like, I do wake up at timeswith anxiety because I don't
(42:29):
know what's going to happen thenday, but I try to take that same
anxiety and like direct it sothat I'm more focused, not on
edge, but at least energized forthe day then.
Angie Yu (42:39):
I think that's.
Lucas Ng (42:41):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (42:41):
Uh, a big part of that is kind of what we do in our
thirties.
The twenties is kind of likefiguring out who the fuck we are
in the thirties is reallyfiguring out what do we want in
life.
And for me, I'm the opposite.
Like I have a very stable, I'mvery privileged.
Even when I went on myshort-term leave.
When I went back to work,everyone was very welcoming to
(43:03):
have me back.
And they were kind of with, onthe journey with me.
And I'm so lucky to have that.
but my personality is that Iwant to do things that are
different.
I want to, like I want to becreative and I want to pursue
things that are not well paying.
But when I was doing my therapysessions, because I really had
this push and pull between myvalues and like what I want to
(43:26):
do, I realized that at the very,very core of my value, the thing
that I want the most in theworld is my own family.
So for you, your passion is thatyour, you love this industry.
So you're willing to, what wasthe word earlier that you used
recalibrate calibrate yourselfto this?
(43:46):
Right.
And I'm like, wow, I reallyrelate to what you're saying,
even though I'm the opposite isto calibrate so that I'm more
stable and I'm quote, unquotemore boring because it will
allow me to really have thething that I want the most in my
life.
And I feel like that's what ourthirties is about.
And you know, like you've beenthrough a lot and I feel like I,
(44:10):
this is such a cliche, but it'sthe whole like struggling artist
thing.
But I think like, even just fromtalking to you now, like I, I
see a difference between thisLukas versus the Lukas.
I met like two years ago.
Lucas Ng (44:22):
Oh
Kristy Yee (44:23):
oh do you tell what's the difference,
Angie Yu (44:25):
more peace and more maturity.
Kristy Yee (44:30):
even though he's been through more chaos.
I find that actually really nicebecause, or poetic even because
two years ago, Lukas, hasn'tstarted therapy and I'm not
allowed here to be like RA righttherapy though.
Sometimes we are like RAtherapy.
Angie Yu (44:44):
Yes.
Kristy Yee (44:44):
But I think like processing all the complexities
that have happened in all thechaos that has happened will
help you bring to a place ofmore peace, even though we're
still all working on it.
Like it's not, there's no finishline to this thing,
Lucas Ng (44:56):
no.
And thank you for bringing thatpoint up because one of the
major things, the major themesthat my therapist always talks
about is show compassion toyourself.
And it might sound cliche.
And at times it does, when Ihear it from, from like a, a non
welcoming mind, but.
one of the major things that shedoes says on repeat is.
(45:17):
Maybe at times you would lack tosupport you lack the care you'll
act the love that you're, thatyour childhood had, that your
former childhood with theunderstanding that you have now
as like a 30 year old in yourthirties as an adult, what can
you say to that younger selfright now?
Can you show him that that kindof same, love that attention,
(45:37):
that support that you craved,you know, tell that to that
little kid within you.
And I, at times kinda like breakdown for that, just because a
lot of things that we'relacking, we right now, as, as
capable adults can provide forour own self.
So tell that to your youngerself man, and that will bring at
least some resolution enclosure.
Angie Yu (45:58):
Absolutely.
The talking to your youngerself.
Kristy Yee (46:00):
Our listeners.
Can't see, but Angie and I arejust like vigorously
Angie Yu (46:04):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (46:05):
as Lukas is talking.
Angie Yu (46:07):
figuratively nodding, because that is one of the
strategies that's very useful.
And it's very common for areason, especially from people
from our backgrounds, becauseour parents did not provide that
kind of compassionate, emotionalsupport because it's not in our
culture.
And it doesn't mean they love usany less.
It's just, they don't knowbetter.
So for us to be like showingthat compassion to ourselves,
(46:30):
it's such a visceral experiencethat yeah, I cry every time too.
Therapy is one thing you haven'ttold your mom about why is that?
Lucas Ng (46:52):
Um, I mean, I can think of reasons why, why I have
not, and, and it doesn't comefrom shame, but it's what I am
more concerned about is, isessentially what we just talked
(47:12):
about.
Like, and again, I could beprojecting, but what I predict
her follow-up question will be,you know, like, Hey mom, I'm
going to therapy.
She'll be like, why, why are youdoing this?
and you know, uh, if I were tosay bluntly, it's like, cause I
didn't feel supported as achild, you know?
And I don't want to do thatconversation.
(47:33):
But in the same token though,and this also came out of moving
out to, I'd go back homeperiodically two or three times
a year, but, and I'm not sure ifthis is normal for every adult
life, but there seems to beevery time I come back, I see
them getting older.
I see them getting greater.
Their voice goes a little bitlower.
In addition to the time, thedistance of time, there is also
(47:57):
that kind of like at timesemotional distance, because I
don't think I can tell them alot of the stuff that I am going
through.
And every time my dad asks me,Hey, how are you in Toronto?
All I can really wrap her up isa it's going all right.
And it comes from a place that Idon't want to worry him, but why
I haven't told my mom why I'm intherapy.
(48:19):
It's just because it is a reallybig conversation that I know
will happen after that.
And I am just not ready yet togo into that with her yet, but
through time eventually, but not
Angie Yu (48:29):
Especially if they think that and knowing our
parents, they, you know, theydone so much for us to the best
of their ability.
They might be like, oh my God,this is all my fault.
I did not do a good job raisingyou.
Lucas Ng (48:42):
you hit that point because I am my father's son.
I am my mother's son, all oftheir great qualities.
My dad is the nicest humanalive.
My mom is the most caring.
She will drop everything to, to,to make sure you feel welcomed
in and supported, but in thesame way as though my dad,
(49:03):
because of his niceness maylack, emotional boundaries,
other people might have likehurt him to my mom because she
tries so hard to do everythingfor everybody, her inner
anxiety, always internalizes alot of things.
And I see that the good and thebad of them into me.
And so.
I really want to work throughthese, these, uh, these
(49:26):
qualities about myself before Igo into that conversation, just
because I am my father's son andI am my mother's son to,
Kristy Yee (49:33):
This is your way of showing love to your parents and
protecting them.
It's not to keep things awayfrom them, but for you to, you
know, get to a point where yousort through some of this stuff
first again, there's no finishline, but get to a place where
you are comfortable enoughbefore you tell them.
And in a way we physically seeour parents getting older.
(49:57):
I see that in my mum every day.
And it's, it's scary to see themget older and, and be fragile,
you know, like, like we are now,we are now in a place and in a
mindset where we are the ones totake care of our parents and we
are now the ones to protectthem.
(50:18):
And this is just another way foryou to protect your family right
now.
Lucas Ng (50:23):
absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, and it's kind ofbreathtaking too.
Cause right now I am at the agewhere my dad had me and two to
also realize that, I mean, Imight have lived more quote,
unquote life than my dadbecause, you know, he was kind
of stable.
He had a great job andeverything like that.
She didn't go through many likemass layoffs and firings.
(50:43):
But if I were to have a childright now, would I be perfect?
Would I be any better than mydad was knowing what I know now?
Of course I will try my best,but in the same token, like
what, like what you just said,Kristy, he did his best.
And Dan, well, I will also do mybest the moment I have a child
too, but I will also fail andnot be that great support system
(51:07):
for my future future child.
So just, we're all trying ourbest right now.
Kristy Yee (51:12):
Yeah, and I don't think there needs to be any
blaming
Lucas Ng (51:16):
Hm.
Kristy Yee (51:16):
and we're all human.
We're all gonna make mistakes.
We're all gonna fail.
Whether it's going to be arelationship with your children
or with your partner or whateverit is.
Cause we cannot be perfect humanbeings.
You cannot be a perfect father,Lukas, as much as you try to be,
but you're going to damn well,try to be anyways because that's
how we show love as people.
(51:37):
Right.
But I think what's important isthat at the end of the day is we
forgive other people for theirmistakes.
And then we try to learn fromthat.
And we also open up a communitywhere, where we allow people to
make mistakes and then getbetter, which is where
(51:57):
normalizing therapy, forexample.
And that's just one way to dothis is normalizing therapy to
be like, you know what?
I had a fucked up childhood.
I needed to sort some shit outI'm not trying to blame you, mom
and dad, but like I, I gotta dothis, you know, and then that
knowledge hopefully continuallygets passed down to the next
generation.
because trauma is not going toend.
(52:18):
Right.
As long as we create the spaceto sort out the trauma
afterwards, you know what Imean?
Like, I feel like that's thechange that I would like to see
in the future, be in a placewhere we are okay.
To talk about our trauma.
Lucas Ng (52:30):
Yeah.
And, and you kind of hit thenail to their Kristy, like the
shame and guilt that one mightfeel.
It really does come down toforgiveness of yourself.
Like after forgiveness ofyourself, then you can try to
look at solutions to take theweight off because there is a
lot of weight That we arecarrying.
So it's, it's okay to, toacknowledge the shame, but also
(52:54):
work towards bettering yourselffor your community for the
better of yourself too.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (52:59):
That's just, that's the takeaway, right?
It's just, yup.
Lucas Ng (53:04):
I feel
Angie Yu (53:05):
Like, honestly, like I am, I don't want to say
astounded.
Cause I think that gives toolittle credit to the Lukas that
I met two years ago.
But you know, like when I metyou, we were like is pre COVID.
So we met up, we were all likeout having fun drinking and
going to eat late pho and like,you know, like that yeah.
That's where we were.
(53:25):
I was 28 at the time and now I'm30.
And even though that's only twoyears, it has been a very
significant two years.
And it's to the sounds of it.
Like, it has been a verysignificant two years for you as
well.
And like, I don't know, I'mproud in
Lucas Ng (53:40):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (53:41):
even though it's not really my place to be because.
Why should I be proud?
Like I don't maybe proud is notthe maybe respect, just a lot
of, I feel a lot of respect foryou right now.
And it's so difficult, for menof our generation, because
there's so much toxicmasculinity floating around and
it's so difficult, especiallyfor Chinese men to go and see a
(54:03):
therapist to really let yourselffeel all the feels like that's
really difficult.
Like, you know, so I'm very, Irespect that a lot about you,
that you were able to take thestep.
Lucas Ng (54:17):
And thank you both of you for opening up this platform
though, it's it is astounding.
Like I'm listening to yourguys's episodes and the topics
that you do bring up.
Like most recently I waslistening to.
So the one that we're just, youtwo are talking and you talking
about like your, your suicidaltendencies and, and just
feelings.
And that is so raw, you know,it's I felt at times like I, I
(54:40):
could relate, but also at thesame time, it's like, I am.
Amazed at your level of opennessto really express these cause,
you know, because of how youexpressed it.
I also expressed how back when Ihad my first fighting.
Like I was about to jump in thelake, like we go through these
events, but it, it weighs a lotless on us, on us when we can
let the weight off a bit.
So thank you for opening up thatavenue for us to, you know,
(55:04):
unpackage it together.
Angie Yu (55:05):
it was our pleasure.
Yeah.
I can't, can't wait for otherpeople to share it.
And I can't wait to read slashwatch slash experience your work
in the industry.
Lucas Ng (55:16):
oh, thank you.
excited.
Yeah, I'll be fine.
Kristy Yee (55:18):
we will link all of Lukas's things in the show
notes.
Angie Yu (55:22):
Yeah.
And check him out.
check his podcasts out over at,have we made a, yet with his
comedic friend?
Comedic has comedian friend,Josh yang.
Lucas Ng (55:32):
Awesome.
Yay.
Give it up for you both.
It's
Angie Yu (55:35):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Kristy Yee (55:37):
Oh my goodness.
Someone's
Angie Yu (55:39):
and I guess, I guess in the industry, we say like
what, that's a wrap in yourindustry.
That's a wrap.
Lucas Ng (55:45):
Uh, We're calling
Angie Yu (55:47):
calling it.
Okay.
Lucas Ng (55:48):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (55:49):
Well, I'm calling it.
I'm going to stop.
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