July 31, 2022 • 50 mins
Angie always imaged having babies. Kristy is on team no kids. But lately, they’ve both been having different thoughts. In this episode, we explore why we originally wanted/not wanted babies and why we are changing our minds. We also chat about endometriosis, discussing babies when dating, abandonment fears, trust issues, and mom’s guilt tripping us.
"Maybe the reason why I always wanted to have a baby is not why I should have a baby" - Angie Yu
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The best way to support this show is by listening and sharing with a friend. If you would like to buy a coffee or bubble tea, we would love that too.
----
Instagram @shitwedonttellmom
Email: shitwedonttellmom@gmail.com
Send us an audio message by clicking here!
----
We use Buzzsprout as our host because they seamlessly link to major podcast platforms and make it really easy to read analytics. They also have an awesome support team. Sign up today and get a $20 Amazon gift card!
We also use Descript as our editing software because editing with text is much easier than with soundwaves. We are not audio geniuses and want to focus our energy on creating content rather than editing. Sign up today and get your first 3 months free!
Yes these are affiliate links because we like them and we use them too.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
When we started the podcast, you really didn't want
(00:03):
kids.
And I was like, yeah, I wantkids.
Yeah.
I want kids.
And now we're both like maybelike kind of more siding on no,
but then
Kristy (00:14):
we're more meeting in the
Angie (00:15):
yeah, we're a lot closer.
Maybe we're not at the samestage.
Exactly.
But we're definitely closer toeach other on the spectrum.
Kristy (00:22):
So let's, let's talk about that.
Angie (00:51):
Welcome back to another episode of shit.
We don't tell mom,
Kristy (00:54):
And today we're gonna be talking about babies
specifically.
Are we gonna have babies or Arewe not gonna have babies?
Angie (01:01):
right.
We're not talking aboutparenthood here because
obviously Kristy and I do nothave parents.
So we have absolutely zeroexpertise.
I mean, we we do not have
Kristy (01:12):
we have,
Angie (01:12):
we have parents.
We do not have babies.
We are not parents.
So we have zero expertise orknowledge in that area.
So in terms of babies, you aretalking about babies from non
parental
Kristy (01:24):
We're gonna discuss our, the non-existent potentially
existing babies.
Wow.
That was, that's not a goodsentence at all.
But Angie and I are in our earlythirties, we have had different,
opinions on how we wanted to runthe rest of our lives, whether.
With babies or sans babies.
(01:46):
And now we're revisiting thisbecause you know, life makes you
change sometimes and sometimesyou have a plan and then you
decide to have a different plan.
Angie (01:59):
I think what prompted this thought to me more is the
fact that right now I'm goingthrough a diagnosis of
endometriosis.
obviously.
Endometriosis is one of thosethings, not obviously,
Kristy (02:11):
tell our poop troops, what endo is.
Angie (02:13):
endometriosis or known as endo is basically when you have
uterine, like the, the cellsthat's supposed to line your
walls, kind of move out and theygo onto your ovaries.
So because of that, you getincredibly painful cramps and it
can affect, your cycle.
And one of the symptoms is thatyou may have difficulty getting
(02:36):
pregnant.
Historically.
It's been very difficult todiagnose because doctors like,
well, you just have a backcramp.
It's like, oh, you'recomplaining too much.
So the only way that they couldreally diagnose in the past was
to really go into you.
Cut you open extract a littlebit of.
That cell and then check whetheror not that's it.
(02:57):
And most people don't actuallythink whether or not they have
endometriosis until they want toget pregnant and they have
trouble.
So then they go to a fertilitydoctor, et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera.
But more recently it has beenbasically become a more, topic
to be talked about because it'sactually quite common.
So I've been having extremelyterribly painful cramps,
(03:17):
especially over the last fewmonths.
So I went to get an ultrasound,cetera, et cetera, cetera,
because it's one of those thingsthat's really difficult to
diagnose.
You kind of have to go through aperiod until they find out
whether or not you have it.
But one of the side effects ofhaving endometriosis is
difficulty having children, butyou know, a lot of people within
don't do have children.
(03:37):
So it's not like a, youdefinitely cannot.
It's just, it makes it moredifficult, but it definitely got
me thinking about, you know,pregnancy and babies and stuff
like that.
And that's actually been on mymind in the back of my mind,
kind of over the last few yearsever since the end of my last
(03:58):
relationship, because that waswhen, you know, my plan was kind
of disrupted
Kristy (04:04):
Because I remember like when your last relationship
ended And then, and then a chunkof time in the middle for like
healing and growth and likegrieving and all that stuff.
Right.
And then afterwards, when you'reready to date again, it felt
like you are on a mission.
Like part of the reason whyyou're looking for a partner is
like I'm ready to have babies.
(04:26):
Like, gimme a baby daddy.
I remember you use the term,like your eggs are gonna expire.
So you were like very determinedto.
This sounds like I'm making itsound horrible.
I'm making it sound like you're,you're just dating so that you
(04:48):
can have a baby.
No, but like that was part ofyour life plans, right?
Like you wanted to have a babyin your life.
that was always something, thatyou had envisioned your life to,
to be.
And then when your lastrelationship ended, it was like,
Ooh, curve ball.
okay, now my timeline's a littlebit messed up Better to have it
when you're younger.
And you know, we wereapproaching 30.
So basically what I'm saying isthat was the Angie, back in 20
(05:11):
20, when we were first talkingabout this topic on our show, so
where are you at now
Angie (05:18):
Maybe I'll start with what I have come to realize
since then, because I, it's hardto describe where I am at now
because I don't exactly knowwhere I am at now, except that I
am at a, maybe.
I think in hindsight, the reasonwhy I really wanted a baby at
that time is because I feltreally alone in the world and I
wanted to have a family.
(05:39):
And when I was going to therapyat that time, you know, I had a
lot of conversations with mytherapist about loneliness and
the feeling of alone andabandonment, cuz that was one of
my biggest triggers.
I related a lot of things backto, I'm gonna be forgotten.
I'm gonna be abandoned.
That was kind of the coredriving factor for a lot of my
(06:01):
insecurities and fear.
So I think that I had alwaysassumed that once you have a
baby, you will no longer feelempty or alone or abandoned
because then you have this thingin your life.
Kristy (06:17):
like you're tethered to this other human forever
Angie (06:20):
that's right.
Kristy (06:21):
they're your baby.
Angie (06:22):
I like it for me.
It was, it felt like a, I didn'tknow it at the time, but I was
thinking of baby as like a, aform of something to fill that
hole, which I obviously, inhindsight, it's like, that's a
really unhealthy way to thinkabout having babies.
Kristy (06:39):
not a good reason to have a baby, to, to compensate
for your like own insecuritiesor just like fears
Angie (06:47):
right.
But of course, like at the timethat was not why I thought it's
all unconscious, right?
Like at the time I was justlike, why I want a family, my
eggs are expiring.
There were all these very, verylogical explanations about why I
want to have a baby.
I feel lost in life.
I've always wanted a family tobe a part of, My parents have
put me through so much.
(07:08):
I feel like I should give them ababy.
Sorry, my parents, I have put myparents.
I have put my parents through somuch.
I feel like I should give them ababy cuz they want a grandchild.
Kristy (07:18):
a great child.
Thanks for bringing me into the
Angie (07:23):
Yeah.
So a lot of the logicalthinking, I was like, well it
totally makes sense.
Why I want to have a baby.
There's all these reasons, butit wasn't really, until I
started my new relationship thata lot of these fear was coming
back to me because I was nowemotionally connected to another
person, which makes mevulnerable at being abandoned
(07:45):
again.
Kristy (07:47):
here.
Angie (07:47):
So that became a focus for my sessions again.
And of course over time.
I come to realize that, okay.
Maybe the reason why I alwayswanted to have a baby is not why
I should have a baby.
Like of course it's okay for meto feel that way because a lot
(08:08):
of people do, but it's not thereason why I should.
So that's why I am now on amaybe because I'm no longer
like, okay, I, I need to have ababy.
It's more like, okay, let's seeif circumstances will come
together where I'm having a babymake sense.
Kristy (08:26):
I wanna go back to that part where you mentioned, like,
now that you're in a newrelationship, you feel less
alone because there's anotherhuman in your life but you also
feel like there's an extra layerof fear because that means your
partner could leave you.
Angie (08:42):
Yeah, exactly.
Kristy (08:44):
so how does, how does, like, how does the baby or not
having a baby kind of play intothat?
Angie (08:51):
That's a good question.
I, maybe it was, I don't know ifit was related.
I think the fear of abandonmentcame back, when I started a new
relationship, because I thinkthat's quite normal.
Like a lot of people have thatfear when they first started a
relationship.
Right.
Maybe they are related, but Ican't think of why right now,
(09:15):
but I'm sure in some ways theyare related.
Cuz I do remember asking him, ohlike, do you want kids?
Because you know, at our age,when you start dating, you have
to hash out those details
Kristy (09:27):
Yeah, we gotta cut to the chase.
Make sure like we align we don'tgot time to play no games.
Angie (09:34):
Yeah.
You don't have time to date fora few years and then figure it
out.
Like if you're both in yourthirties, you need to be like,
okay, are we on the same page ornot?
So like I asked them like, doyou want babies one day?
He's like, or sorry, do you wantlike, yeah.
Do you want to have kids?
And he said, yeah, eventually.
And I was like, okay, that's apretty reasonable answer.
(09:57):
especially because some peopledon't think in long term like
that.
So for me it was, yeah.
Maybe in like, in three to fiveyears or something like that,
which could be eventually forsomeone like him.
Kristy (10:08):
mm-hmm yeah.
Angie (10:10):
So I was like, okay, I didn't wanna press, because we
had only been together for a fewmonths at that time.
Kristy (10:16):
So it's like, we need to answer all these questions soon,
but like also not too,
Angie (10:23):
I don't wanna, it is such a fine line.
I was like, Ugh, I don't wannalike pressure him cuz it's not
like I want now, but I also needto know that like when
Kristy (10:35):
wanna like also, yeah, you don't wanna freak him out,
but then you also was like, youknow, I got an agenda here.
Angie (10:41):
yeah, exactly.
Like when.
Kristy (10:45):
need to
Angie (10:45):
Like eventually.
Okay.
But gimme like a year, you know,like, is that gonna be like 20,
25 is gonna be 20, 34?
Like, and how
Kristy (10:56):
on my calendar.
Angie (10:58):
I need to plan it out in my head.
And that was my approach.
And, so it bothered me a lot,even though he did answer the
question, I was like, so I toldmy therapist and yeah, I guess
maybe I wasn't asking the rightquestions, but she says, like,
we can't force people to give usan answer if they don't want to,
(11:19):
the best that we can do, or thebest that I can do is tell him
where I'm coming from.
Tell him exactly when I wanthave babies and tell him what's
on my mind and see how he reactsto it.
And so I did, and he was justlike, He's like a silent
participant in a lot of theseconversations, he's a very good
(11:40):
listener, not a great, debateror anything like that.
So he was just like, okay.
And I was like, what are yourthoughts?
And he, and what he said was,well, I guess like for me, I
don't have the pressure ofthinking it like that, like in
terms of a timeline.
So I've never thought about itin that detail And I was like,
(12:01):
okay, that's fair.
But then there was still, thisnagging came behind me, like,
but when, when, and I think thatgave me pressure like that, I
gave myself pressure.
And because of that pressure, Istarted acting like.
out of not like I started actingout of an agenda, like you said,
(12:23):
rather than like seeing wherethe relationship goes.
Because again, I was like, well,we don't have time to waste.
Even though quote unquote, wewere technically on the same
page and that we both eventuallywant children, but I was like,
no, I need a fucking agenda.
Like, I, I know.
Yeah.
Like I need like a planner.
like
Kristy (12:38):
I need a timeline.
Angie (12:39):
I need a timeline.
And that obviously wasn't greatfor the relationship.
It's not a healthy way toapproach a relationship
whatsoever.
Kristy (12:47):
Did you have a timeline in mind?
Angie (12:49):
I did.
I want to have my first kidbefore I turned 34.
Kristy (12:56):
Did you
Angie (12:57):
I did.
Kristy (12:59):
tell him that?
And.
Angie (13:00):
He just like acknowledged what I said, but he didn't say
anything at the time because Idon't think he had time to
process and think about it.
Kristy (13:08):
Especially when he has never given a timeline, the
Angie (13:14):
Yeah, exactly.
Like, I, I, I told him, I'mlike, I'm not putting you in the
spot.
I just wanna tell you this.
So that's why he didn't reallysay anything about his thoughts,
because I told him, I'm like,I'm not pushing you for an
answer.
I just wanted you to know whatmy thoughts are because that's,
that's what my therapistsuggested.
And I was like, okay, thatsounds like a fair conversation
(13:35):
for him so that I'm not justlike, okay, tell me right now.
Like, so I'm not dropping a bombon him, right?
Yeah.
But that did create somefriction because I always had
this thought in the back of mymind.
Well, like what if he's justwasting my time?
Like, oh, this is not gonna workout.
He's gonna leave.
Like, we're gonna break up andthen I'm gonna have to start
over again.
And it's like a self-fulfillingprophe.
(13:55):
So at the time we had beentogether for around six months
and he hurt his back, hurt hisback climbing.
He jumped down a wrong way andhe hurt his back and he couldn't
move.
So the next day I took him tothe hospital, thankfully wasn't
as bad.
But of course I was like, oh mygoodness, so I decided to take
care of him.
(14:16):
but I couldn't really do that athis place because I still needed
to work.
So We packed up some of hisstuff and he came to mine and I
took care of him for a few days.
And then we kind of just gotcomfortable like that so that he
spent, started spending a lot oftime on my place.
it was almost like we wereliving together except he, all
he had at my place were hisclothes.
so I was like, like, does itmake sense for you to just like
(14:38):
move in or something?
Like, I know it's really soon,but a lot of things have
happened really quickly.
you know, pandemic relationship,et cetera.
And he is like, yeah.
Okay.
So we decided this around like Fsurround like February and his
move in date was gonna be March.
But as the date was comingcloser, he started like kind of
shutting out.
(14:58):
So for me, I was gettingtriggered like, oh no, this is
Like the self-fulfillingprophecy, like it's
Kristy (15:03):
Like he's getting cold feet.
He's having second thoughts.
He doesn't wanna move in withme.
What does that mean for ourrelationship?
What does that mean for, for me?
Angie (15:11):
Yeah.
What does that mean for me?
What does that mean for myfuture?
I was so focused on myselfbecause I went into that
defensive mode again.
Right.
Like, oh my God, somebody'sgonna bend on me.
I need to think about myselfbecause I need to protect myself
and self and yeah.
So we ended up breaking up for aweek because I couldn't handle
(15:33):
the heartache of imagining goingthrough this cuz I didn't, I
couldn't see a way out if he hadmoved back, he had he okay.
Not move back.
But he was basically living onmine at that, that point pretty
much if he had chosen not tostay, which would mean that he
was gonna quote unquote, moveback.
(15:53):
that it
Kristy (15:53):
like
Angie (15:53):
result in a lot of conflict.
Kristy (15:56):
like, it's a sign.
Like he, the whole herding, hisback thing was a catalyst to you
guys moving in together and thenpandemic and all of that.
And then you guys moved intogether.
You guys got really comfortable.
He was hanging out a lot at yourplace.
He was practically living thereanyways.
Right.
It's just not officially.
And so him going back to his ownplace is almost a sign of
(16:18):
regression.
Like either the relationship isfalling apart or like, this is a
bad sign because we were movingforward.
So if he goes back, then we'reeither moving backwards or we're
just falling apart.
And neither of those are goodthings.
Angie (16:33):
That's right.
So the regression, which again,relates to, I mean, the reason
why I'm going to the story isbecause it relates to the baby's
thing is like there's adestination for a relationship
getting married and havingbabies.
That was my thought.
And of, of course, in hindsight,I'm like, that was really
unhealthy.
And like, we had this big fight,which resulted in a breakup,
(16:56):
which ended up being just a bigfight because we made up at the
end of the week, like litliterally one week later and
then he's like, you know, thisdoesn't change anything,
anything I'm like, I know thisdoesn't change anything, but I
need to change my perspective.
Kristy (17:12):
Such growth in those seven days?
Angie (17:15):
Something happened in those seven days.
Kristy (17:17):
And you're like, oh shit.
Hmm.
My perspective was a little bitskewed.
I was very focused on me.
I need to think about like us.
And I also need to think aboutyou too.
Like, I need to bring you intothis conversation like that.
I think that's some growth.
If you were able to come to thatconclusion in
Angie (17:34):
I think it's kind of similar to what happened when
you broke up with your B yourex-boyfriend or quote uncle, and
then you flip flopped as well.
Remember, because it does givesome perspective because I was
the one who ended it, eventhough I didn't want to end it
Kristy (17:48):
mm-hmm
Angie (17:49):
because I was like, I don't know, it was a weird
Kristy (17:52):
Yes, same these we, we gotta call it first and, and and
also it feels less well I'mdoing air quotes.
It, it makes us think it wouldfeel less painful if we only
apply logic into coming up withthat conclusion, what we think
at the time is logic.
(18:13):
And so if we were in control,then we have control of how
painful it is.
Like, it feels a little bit lesspainful when it's coming from
me, rather than like you beingdumped.
And, that in of itself is also aform of protection.
It's protecting your ownemotions and But anyways, I
digress.
That's another, that's anotherepisode topic.
Why do we need to have so muchcontrol?
Angie (18:35):
that's exactly it.
But I do think that relates tothe whole baby's thing.
At least for me, it did.
So where I'm at now is afterthose seven days after continue
seeing my therapist and talkingthrough, my mind of thought and
how I thought about this baby'sthing.
When I came to the conclusionwas I want a family.
I want to be a part of a family.
(18:57):
because that was something thatI didn't have at a very
formative time in my life.
I always felt really lonely.
Kristy (19:05):
Yes, I relate so hard, so hard.
Mm
Angie (19:08):
Exactly.
But then I also came to theconclusion that you don't need
to have babies to have a family.
So that was where it was kind oflike, okay, these are the
driving factors of why I wannahave a baby.
As soon as I realized those arethe driving factors.
I was like, well, that'sunhealthy.
like, that was being like, okay,well that's fucked up.
And, I don't wanna fuck up mychildren and you don't have to
(19:32):
have babies to have a familybecause you can just be family
between the two of you and yourfriends and stuff like that.
So I was like, okay.
So I kind of started to relax onthat idea.
And I even told him, I was like,I don't think I want children
anymore.
Kristy (19:47):
when,
Angie (19:48):
um,
Kristy (19:48):
when did you say this to him?
Cause in our story, we weretalking up until you know, you
guys, you guys got backtogether.
So when did you
Angie (19:55):
I can't remember because things happened so quickly
because we weren't seeinganybody else, like friends,
family.
It was just us two
Kristy (20:06):
pandemic relationships?
Angie (20:08):
it felt like several months after we got back
together.
But in reality it was probablylike two months or even one
month.
I don't know, like, you knowwhat I mean?
Like emotionally it felt like alot, a long time after, but in
reality, probably not.
So I told him that and he waslike, okay, like, he didn't
really say anything.
He just noded and acknowledgedwhat I said.
(20:30):
And then sometime later I toldhim again, I want have kids.
Kristy (20:35):
Oh my gosh.
So now you're flip floppingbetween the babies.
Angie (20:38):
Yeah.
And he's like so confused.
He's like, okay, so you reallywant kids.
And then you say you didn't wantkids and now you want kids
again.
He's like, I'm really confused.
I was like, I know I'm reallyconfused too.
and that's when I was, Irealized I was like, okay, let
me rephrase this.
It's not that I really, reallywant children.
And it's not that I'm reallyagainst having children.
(21:00):
I just am at this gray area of,I don't know.
And then he did this.
Oh, mm.
Like kind of likeacknowledgement.
And I agree with you kind ofthing.
I was like, is that pretty muchwhere you are?
He's like, yeah.
And I was like, okay, now we'reon the same page.
So when he said, eventually itwas more like a maybe, but maybe
(21:21):
he didn't wanna upset me orsomething, you know?
Kristy (21:23):
He's also been conditioned by the society that
we live in.
Like that's just the part of theplan in life.
Maybe he's just like, yeah.
Eventually, but like, he wasn'tsure if, if he's sure.
No, because he's.
Against it, but he's not totallyfor it.
So then he'll just lean into thedefault status quo, which is
(21:44):
like, okay.
Yeah.
I'll probably eventually havekids because that's what
everybody does.
Right?
Like, so
Angie (21:52):
And he, and he doesn't have, expiring eggs to think
about.
You and I, and I would say atleast a handful of my close
friends have been in that grayarea for some time, because they
had their yes or no decision atsome point.
And they decided that they're inthe gray area, but I do also
(22:12):
have friends who are absoluteyes.
And friends who are an absolute,no.
Which at the time was you
Kristy (22:22):
I mean, I'm not that far away from the absolute.
No, but so I still wanna say Iam team.
No,
Angie (22:32):
Okay.
Kristy (22:32):
but I'm.
Uh, man,
Angie (22:36):
Uh,
Kristy (22:37):
sometimes I have these trickling thoughts that come in
just randomly, you know, howlike random thoughts pop in your
head.
Right.
And so sometimes I will have arandom thought of be like, what?
I wonder what my kid would looklike.
I wonder would be like to, youknow, raise a teenager.
I wonder what kind of clothes Iwill buy them, you know, like
(22:58):
small things like that.
And sometimes like, it shows up,in my work, whether it's
pediatric nutrition, whetherit's nutrition for pregnant
people, whether it's teachingabout food, food, literacy,
cooking skills in, in schoolclassrooms, so food and
(23:18):
nutrition and kids, you know,that combination shows up in my
work sometimes.
So I will have a random thought.
I'll be like, I wonder how Iwould teach my kid about food,
or I would, I would think oflike fun, creative ways to teach
my kid, food and likeexperiencing different senses
and playing with food and likeenjoying different types of
food.
(23:39):
And, so it's not like I sit downand I think, oh, do I wanna have
a kid or not?
And when I do have theseconversations with myself, I
it's mostly a no, but I wouldhave like random thoughts that
pop in my head, whether it be,inspired by work or I see
someone on the streets orwhatever, or just random shower
(24:00):
moments.
Right.
And they'll come up and I'venever really had those thoughts
before, but I've been havingthem more lately.
When I say lately, I mean, likein the last, I don't know, year
or two ish, maybe longer.
And I didn't really wanna admitthat because I was so do you
know, children for so long.
(24:20):
and, and it makes me, you know,it just makes me wonder, and now
I'm like, maybe I'm not so 100%against the thought of having
kids.
And I wonder if like, thesethoughts are a sign or if
they're just like naturalthoughts you have, but it
doesn't mean that it's, it'sactually what I want.
Angie (24:42):
Hmm.
Kristy (24:43):
Cause who wouldn't be curious, right.
About like what your kid mightlook like, but
Angie (24:49):
Yeah.
Or like how, what kind of personthey will be and will they have
the traits that you value andwill you be able to, so for me,
it's a lot more high levelinstead of, I think it's so cute
that you thought about likeclothes and stuff like that.
That's so sweet for me.
It's more like, what kind ofperson are they gonna be?
How are they going to approachlife?
(25:11):
Are they gonna be a kind person?
Are they gonna pick up thevalues that I want them to have?
And what are they gonna be likewith my husband or my baby
daddy?
what are they gonna be like withmy parents?
What are they gonna be like withmy friends?
Like stuff like that, becauseyou're when you have a baby,
you're not just introducing anew life into the world, you're
(25:34):
introducing a new person intoyour existing support system.
Like it takes a village or stufflike that.
And you know that everyonearound you is going to do their
part
Kristy (25:44):
it.
You're not just bringing a childinto the world.
You're bringing a child intoyour world.
Angie (25:50):
That's right.
and I know how happy it'll makemy parents.
So for me, that was kind ofwhere I was coming from.
And of course, when during thoseseven days of the fight slash
breakup, I did have thatconversation with my mom.
(26:12):
And what she said was, eventhough I mentioned some of those
comments to you, I don't want topressure you.
She's like, I do not care if youhave kids or not.
I just think it would bring youso much joy if you do, because
you've brought me joy.
Kristy (26:27):
Ooh oh, oh.
That's like mom saying I loveyou.
Angie (26:30):
yeah.
I know.
But it was not in those exactwords.
It was
Kristy (26:33):
Uh, that's pretty dark close, man.
That's I, I say that is wayhigher than her peeling.
An orange for you.
Angie (27:32):
Yeah.
So when she said that and shesaid, she also said it would be
also such a shame, because whatshe meant was like, you are so
capable that it would be a shamefor you not to give another
child such a good life like tobe taken care of and to be a
mentor, like a role model forsomeone else, because I was such
(27:55):
an easy daughter for her to haveit'd be a shame because I'm so
capable
Kristy (28:00):
Mm-hmm I think she's right.
I think, I think your mom'sright.
I think it would be a shamebecause you are such a capable
person.
You are like, I think you wouldbe a great mom is basically what
I'm trying to say.
Angie (28:14):
thank you.
Kristy (28:15):
But at the same time, I wonder if I know she says like,
I don't wanna pressure you and Idon't care if you have kids or
not, but to say it would be sucha shame is almost kind of like a
guilt tripping thing.
Angie (28:27):
Oh, yeah.
It's absolutely.
Yes.
And she, she says, oh no,absolutely.
And that's such a, like a thingthat my mom does that she like
contradicts herself, but shedoesn't realize it.
So she doesn't realize that bysaying that she is giving me
pressure, but she's not, she'ssaying she's not, but because
she's comparing it to her socialcircle.
(28:49):
Right.
And her social circle is Chinesemoms being like, have a kid.
Where's my grandchild, have akid now have a kid now.
Whereas my mom is like, no, likeshe's not gonna say that stuff
to me directly.
But she says stuff that is maybeguilt tripping a little bit,
maybe a little bit like fishingfor, you know, an answer kind of
(29:10):
stuff like that.
So to her, she's not pressuringme directly, but she also
doesn't realize some of thecomments she make is a little
bit, you know, does gimme alittle bit of pressure.
Kristy (29:20):
Which is basically part of her identity because she is
very liberal compared to a lotof typical Asian moms, but she
is still herself, an Asian mom.
So she's still gonna, you know,hold some of those typical Asian
mom characteristics so like I'vetold my mom, I tell her all the
time, it's almost like I keeppushing that seed deeper and
(29:43):
deeper into her brain.
that?
Now she's just like, she knowsI'm not gonna have kids and
she's accepted the fact that I'mnot gonna have kids.
She's never pressured me.
She's never like, I wanna be agrandma.
Like, what are you gonna give mebabies?
Like, it's more like my grandmathat says those things.
and then my mom will like, tryto shut her up is hilarious.
(30:04):
It's like watching.
Us but older it's gross.
Anyway.
anyways.
so like I've, I've always beenthe one to tell my mom how I
feel about the kids thing, butI've actually never asked her
how she felt about potentiallynot having grandchildren.
(30:26):
And I know it's not up to her.
It's my life.
And I get to do what I want withit and it's my body, et cetera.
But lately I can't help, butwonder like, does she feel some
sadness that she might never bea grandma?
And I'm so afraid to approachthat topic to her, just thinking
(30:48):
about it is, is making meemotional and yeah, she'll
sprinkle things in to try toconvince me to have a kid, but
she's.
She knows.
I've made my decision.
In fact, I, I make her thinkthat I am so team, no kids more
than I actually am, but like, I,I do want to know, am I taking
(31:11):
something away from her?
And like, how does she feelabout not having grandchildren,
not being able to become agrandma?
Like,
Angie (31:20):
Do you think that on some level she feels like it's her
fault?
Kristy (31:24):
oh, I've never considered that before.
What do you mean.
Angie (31:29):
Like, because you had to be a caretaker at such a young
age that you no longer want totake care of another being and
that maybe the, adversity youwent through as a child has made
you.
Prone not less like has made yousee that childhood isn't always
(31:50):
full of rainbows and butter.
Kristy (31:52):
I don't know.
I mean, I just haven't thoughtabout it, but I could see her, I
could see her come to thatconclusion.
I know she feels guilty aboutnot being in my life, especially
during childhood and I'm suremaking assumptions.
I'm not sure, but I think tosome degree she feels regret for
(32:14):
not taking custody of me I thinkit's, I think it's really
complicated because it's like, Idon't know how often she thinks
about the, what if.
but I know she's a veryemotional person and she used to
live in the past a lot.
She has improved drastically inthe last year or so.
(32:36):
And I'm so proud of her in theprogress that she's made with
herself, trying to be morepresent and think about her,
think about her instead ofeverybody else.
Cuz she would do a lot of thingsthat she would do a lot of
things for other people, butnever herself.
And then she would just live inthe past, you know?
So I don't know.
And maybe that's part of why I'mscared to approach this topic
(32:58):
with her of like what it wouldbe like for you.
If you weren't going to be agrandma.
I don't know if she wants to beone or like, I don't know.
I, I just don't.
I just don't know what herthoughts are on this topic,
besides that she respects mydecisions, but subtly sprinkles
in reasons why I should havekids without knowing, or maybe
(33:23):
she knows,
Angie (33:26):
I think our moms have a lot more in common than we
think,
Kristy (33:30):
that's why they're hanging out.
They're like, this is Ky stuff.
Okay.
I thought, I thought it'd belike, you know, a couple times a
year, maybe like be, you know,friendly acquaintances, like,
oh, our daughters hang out.
Our daughters are friends andthey do podcast.
They are okay.
Okay.
Poop.
Jus let's give you a side,little update.
Our moms have been hanging outevery single.
Angie (33:55):
you know, we can't
Kristy (33:55):
Every week, every, okay.
Angie and I, we do podcasting onSundays.
Right?
That's why our episodes drop onSundays.
We record on Sundays.
So we like hang out.
Okay.
Pretty much every Sunday.
Well, we used to hang out waymore when I was in Vancouver,
but now our moms are alsohanging out.
Every Sundays is
Angie (34:18):
Yep.
That's when the hiking groupmeets, but then also on Canada
day, they hung out.
there was another, mom there aswell.
The three of them went todowntown together and had like a
girl's day
Kristy (34:32):
nah, oh.
like, like, I would think youwould have these girl Hangouts
with people that you're likevery close to, you know, that
you like enjoy hanging out with.
And I didn't know that they wereat that level already.
Okay.
Angie (34:49):
They have so much in common.
From what my mom has told me, itsounds like all three of them
are kind of the independentreally on their own.
It's not like their husbands arewith them.
Their boyfriends are with them.
All three of them havedaughters.
One daughter, two of them areright here.
(35:09):
I think the other woman is theone whose daughter is in
Switzerland doing or, or Swedendoing her masters.
And she doesn't wanna come backto Vancouver.
And
Kristy (35:18):
So also also very strong, capable, independent
daughters.
Angie (35:24):
that's right.
Which they should realize takesafter them.
Kristy (35:28):
I hope so.
Do they realize that?
I hope they do.
I hope they, I hope they like,you know, celebrate and like do
little, the three of them justlike cheers, champagne, fruit,
C.
Champ champagne flutes, and belike, look us, go
Angie (35:45):
Yeah.
I don't know if they think that,but it would be very cute, but
they, yeah, the three of themhave so much in common
Kristy (35:51):
anyways.
Where, how do we get here?
Oh, telling our moms about,
Angie (35:57):
yeah.
And, and the pressure andwhether or not we know, like, I
know that if I don't havegrandchild, I think my mom has
grappled with that, that shemight not have a grandchild.
I think that's why she treatsEvie, like her grandchild, like,
you know, giving.
So for those who don't know yet,Evie is my dog.
Kristy (36:17):
It's basically a child in our generation.
Like
Angie (36:20):
yeah, basically.
That's.
Kristy (36:22):
pets.
Are the new children like, comeon, get, get with, oh my gosh.
What was.
Trend, thanks with the trend.
Angie (36:31):
like my mom gave her a red pocket when she came home
and then my mom gave her anotherred pocket on her birthday.
Kristy (36:40):
That's so cute.
That's so cute.
Okay.
If maybe when I have a cat, thenI won't feel so.
So I don't know weird about thiswhole situation, because I think
same thing, like my mom has cometo terms that I'm probably not
gonna have a kid, so thereforeshe's probably not gonna become
a grandma.
I I'm gonna guess that there'ssome sort of a sadness as part
(37:05):
of that.
And you know, but she's come toterms with it and she's accepted
it and she respects it now.
I'm, I'm hoping, you know, onceI have my little baby, my little
cat baby, that, that she could,she could treat it.
as she
Angie (37:26):
I think, I think she would.
I think she would.
And, and, one other thing thathas also made me go, okay, maybe
I am back more on the side ofyes.
Because seeing how involved myboyfriend is with Evie and
seeing how involved my mom iswith Evie and seeing how
supportive my boyfriend's mom iswith Evie makes me think that,
(37:53):
of course they'll be the same.
If I have a baby,
Kristy (37:57):
would a grandchild, it's like a child test for a
Angie (37:59):
a child test.
Absolutely.
And my, my friends who now havea baby, they started off with a
dog as well.
And they will always say thatthe dog is their first child.
It's their first son and their,their human son is their second
son.
and we actually went for, myfriend's birthday dinner, and I
guess him and my boyfriendstarted talking and he messaged
(38:23):
me a couple days later and go,do you guys want kids?
And I was like, whoa, what, whatare like, just like question.
I was like, yeah, I don't know.
I think eventually he's like,,he really liked the way my
boyfriend talked about Evie.
He could really see how much hecares and like my friend who was
at like my friend, he thoughtthat my boyfriend would make a
(38:44):
great dad.
That's how obvious it was to himand Evie wasn't even there.
It was just throughconversation.
Kristy (38:52):
Your partner's just like exuding dad vibes.
Angie (38:55):
He is definitely exuding dad vibes.
He already has so much of thatand it just makes me so happy to
feel that.
My best friend have asked melike, oh, like, do you think
things are better now?
Or like, are things tougher withEvie?
I was like, at first it wastough in terms of sleeping
schedule, but I've never beenmore in love with him because he
(39:15):
is so good.
He's so thoughtful and soconsiderate.
And it's a side of him that Iwouldn't have seen before.
So it is really sweet andthey're really sweet together.
And I told my friend, I said, ifwe do have kids, I'm pretty sure
it would be up to me.
So.
I can kind of see a future witha kid now because I see how much
(39:37):
love and support they
Kristy (39:39):
sweet.
Hmm.
Yeah.
and who knows, like, you know, Imight change my mind depending
on my life circumstances,depending on when I get a kitty.
Right.
Maybe I'll be like, this istotally enough.
Or I'll I might feel like, oh mygosh, maybe I want more.
Right.
It's interesting that when youimagine potentially having a kid
(40:01):
it's it's with you, it's withyour partner, it's involving
your whole family.
it's bringing, yeah, like I saidearlier, it's, it's bringing a
baby into your world.
When I imagined having a, a kid,I was always alone.
Angie (40:18):
would get.
Oh.
Kristy (40:18):
Like, I didn't even think about my mom, you know,
helping out or how she mighttreat my, yeah.
It's not to say, like, I don'tthink she would.
I just, it, it just didn'tnaturally come into the picture
and, and it's not like, how do Iput this?
if I were to bring a child intothe world, I would like to do
(40:40):
that with a partner.
But when I I close my eyes and Ipicture it, even though I want
there to be a partner.
And sometimes in that, you know,imagination there is, but it's
always just some like shadowedfigure, just kind of like
looming in the background, notreally super involved, you know,
like they're there, but like notreally there, you know what I'm
saying?
Maybe it's just because like, Idon't know who the baby daddy's
(41:02):
gonna be and therefore it's socryptic or maybe subconsciously,
I feel like I need to do thisall on my own.
Even, even if there was a personthere, I would still feel like
majority of the responsibilityand majority of how my life will
change is gonna be on me andmaybe subconsciously.
(41:24):
That's why I don't want to havechildren because it seems really
exhausting and tiring andactually lonely.
Angie (41:33):
No.
If you were here right now, Iwould give you a hug.
Kristy (41:37):
virtual hugs.
Angie (41:39):
Yeah.
Virtual hugs.
think that's because you had tohandle so much on your own as a
child.
That you have become you know,that you can always rely on
yourself, but you know that youcan't
Kristy (41:51):
Yes.
What you just said there?
Absolutely.
Because it's like the, theperson that you can confidently
trust in this entire world isyou, I'm not saying I have trust
issues.
I don't think.
But I can't confidently say Ihave full trust in another.
Okay.
That, that does sound
Angie (42:12):
rely on other people.
Kristy (42:16):
wow.
What a, what a revelation.
Angie (42:20):
you're you're also giving major Katniss vibes right now.
Because she had to take care ofher mom and her sister.
And she like, you know, she hadresented her mom a lot.
and then she knows that shecan't trust anybody except
herself, which is why she wasso, distrusting of Peeta but
then eventually she came torealize that it's always better
(42:42):
to do it with someone
Kristy (42:43):
And she didn't wanna have kids
Angie (42:45):
that's right.
Kristy (42:46):
until Peeta came along
Angie (42:48):
There you go.
Kristy (42:49):
her mind and felt like, so.
Angie (42:52):
It's not that it's.
Yeah.
It's not that you need to have aPeeta to have child, but I think
if somebody came into your lifeand showed you that they can be
relied upon that they are therefor you then maybe.
Kristy (43:06):
Yeah.
And it like what it took.
Okay.
Spoilers alert for hunger games.
It took her, I think like 15years before she even decided to
actually have a kid with Peetaafterwards.
I think, I think a lot of peoplelove, the Kaus character, but
there is a big part of me thatrelates to her because of her
(43:27):
upbringing.
It's not like I lived indistrict 13, but.
Angie (43:31):
12
Kristy (43:32):
Oh dear.
Oh, shame on me.
I've been in very Harry Pottermode lately.
Okay.
I must say I just came back fromthe curse child.
So, you know, like also notcannon.
Okay.
Don't no hate everybody.
Like I know it's not Canon, butit, the, the play is pretty
(43:52):
good.
Okay.
So I, yes.
I relate to Katniss and yeah,like, I don't feel like I can
fully rely on another humanbeing right now besides me.
So maybe the conclusion is Ineed a Peeta to walk into my
life and then spend 15 years toconvince me
Angie (44:13):
and you know, that's, that's totally understandable.
You can't work on trust issuesalone.
You can only work on trustissues with someone else.
Right.
Because you have to develop thattrust.
And for me too, like, it took mea while to trust that my
boyfriend's not just in the getup and leave because he wants
to.
Took me a lot to accept that hewants to be here.
And there's a reason why he'shere.
(44:35):
And if something does happenwhere he no longer wants to be
here, then it is what it is.
I can't live day to day thinkingthat he's gonna leave.
Yeah.
So, I mean, I was reading lastnight as I was following asleep,
he rolled over and put his headon my shoulder and I was like,
Ugh, this has never happenedever.
Yeah.
Kristy (44:57):
up the episode.
Angie (44:58):
Yeah.
I guess we went all over theplace a little bit, but I think
that's very representative ofhow we feel about wanting
babies.
Kristy (45:06):
So it's basically exactly what we should have
done.
and then I would say
Angie (45:09):
right.
I guess in summary, it's likeone, don't think about babies as
a solution to your problems.
It took me a while to realizethat, but I'm so glad I realized
that before I actually had ababy
Kristy (45:22):
third
Angie (45:23):
two, it takes not just you to raise a baby.
It literally takes a village asthey say.
And I know that there are singleparents out there who do a lot
of it on their own and like madrespect, but I can see why
somebody would be hesitant tohave a child if they don't know
for exact guarantee that theywill receive additional support,
(45:44):
especially in this economy.
Kristy (45:49):
is Really think about why is it that you choose to
have a child or not have achild, like really ask yourself
that question and, and maybe askyourself multiple times.
Because if someone asks me why Idon't wanna have a kid, I can
list off lots of logicalreasons.
But if I'm really questioningmyself, like, is it, this is it
(46:11):
because I have trust issues?
Is it because I have fear ofbeing alone Maybe it's am I
having this?
Because my family wants me tohave this.
Is it because my partner wantsme to have this, like, are, are
you having a child?
Because everybody else around,you want you to have a child,
but do you want a child?
Angie (46:29):
Yeah.
And I think those are veryunderstandable and valid reasons
if somebody does choose to havea child, but I think it sets up
a good foundation before goinginto parenthood to know why you
are having a child as well.
On top of the other reasons why,you know, you should or
shouldn't, but why you want to
Kristy (46:50):
okay.
That's it?
That, that's all we got
Angie (46:53):
that's all we got because that's all we know.
Kristy (46:56):
and neither of us are fully a hundred percent.
Yes or no.
And maybe that's a, maybe that'sa good thing because we're
accepting of either or
Angie (47:06):
Yep.
Kristy (47:07):
okay.
Piece.
Aww.
Angie (47:44):
Okay.
So side note, this is a cutestory Evie has now equated the
word grandma with my mom.
Like she knows who grandma is,
Kristy (47:52):
That is so cute.
Angie (47:54):
isn't it?
Kristy (47:55):
That is so cute.
Angie (47:57):
I realized it a while ago, because one time, I was
saying like, oh, oh, likegrandma's grandma's house,
whatever this weekend, grandma.
And then she sprinted to thedoor and I was like, cuz usually
like, well I'll be like Eddie.
Grandma's here, grandma's here.
And then my mom will come in.
So she has now come tounderstand, grandma is my mom
(48:21):
and it's so cute.
So I sent my mom videos beforewhere I say grandma and every
like looks over at the door.
Kind of thing.
And I, I was like, and then onetime I said a word that was
really similar to grandma, butit wasn't, I think I said, shout
a grammar at Nick
Kristy (48:34):
Ah,
Angie (48:35):
and then EV bolted as well.
And I was like, I'm so it's not,but either way, she knows that
word now.
And it's so cute.
And I sent videos to my mom andshe obviously brags about it to
my dad.
And last time when my parentscame over to have, spot PRS,
there was one moment where, somy, my dad never really knew
(48:56):
what to do with Evie.
Like when he first met her, she,he was just like, okay.
Yeah, like that's a dog.
Right.
Well,
Kristy (49:06):
just like, imagine him doing that.
Yeah.
Angie (49:11):
the thing is Evie.
Yeah.
And Evie's such a family though,though.
She'll like wag her tail, go upto my dad and try to like give
him kisses and play with him,but he wouldn't know what to do.
So he would just kind of laughawkwardly.
And then there was one timewhere we saw him petting Evie
and instead petting Evie withhis hand, he pet her with his
elbow.
I don't know.
Maybe he was, I think maybe hewas scared of being bitten cuz
(49:33):
you know, when they grew up,dogs were pretty like
unpredictable.
Yeah.
They're not like trained likethey are nowadays.
but when he came over, I couldtell he was jealous that he Evie
didn't know what grandpa means.
And then, and then he, Evie wassitting, looking at him and my
dad was like, you are Evie.
(49:54):
I am grandpa.
And I was like, oh my God, likeit was this, it was such a sweet
moment, like, because, and Evieobviously has no idea what he's
talking about.
So she just like, has her mouthopen, like looking at him.
yeah,
Kristy (50:12):
Oh, that's Hmm.
Angie (50:12):
such a cute moment.
Kristy (50:14):
I love that.
I love that story.
Angie (50:16):
You are Evie.
I am grandpa.
When we started the podcast, you really didn't want
(00:03):
kids.
And I was like, yeah, I wantkids.
Yeah.
I want kids.
And now we're both like maybelike kind of more siding on no,
but then
Kristy (00:14):
we're more meeting in the
Angie (00:15):
yeah, we're a lot closer.
Maybe we're not at the samestage.
Exactly.
But we're definitely closer toeach other on the spectrum.
Kristy (00:22):
So let's, let's talk about that.
Angie (00:51):
Welcome back to another episode of shit.
We don't tell mom,
Kristy (00:54):
And today we're gonna be talking about babies
specifically.
Are we gonna have babies or Arewe not gonna have babies?
Angie (01:01):
right.
We're not talking aboutparenthood here because
obviously Kristy and I do nothave parents.
So we have absolutely zeroexpertise.
I mean, we we do not have
Kristy (01:12):
we have,
Angie (01:12):
we have parents.
We do not have babies.
We are not parents.
So we have zero expertise orknowledge in that area.
So in terms of babies, you aretalking about babies from non
parental
Kristy (01:24):
We're gonna discuss our, the non-existent potentially
existing babies.
Wow.
That was, that's not a goodsentence at all.
But Angie and I are in our earlythirties, we have had different,
opinions on how we wanted to runthe rest of our lives, whether.
With babies or sans babies.
(01:46):
And now we're revisiting thisbecause you know, life makes you
change sometimes and sometimesyou have a plan and then you
decide to have a different plan.
Angie (01:59):
I think what prompted this thought to me more is the
fact that right now I'm goingthrough a diagnosis of
endometriosis.
obviously.
Endometriosis is one of thosethings, not obviously,
Kristy (02:11):
tell our poop troops, what endo is.
Angie (02:13):
endometriosis or known as endo is basically when you have
uterine, like the, the cellsthat's supposed to line your
walls, kind of move out and theygo onto your ovaries.
So because of that, you getincredibly painful cramps and it
can affect, your cycle.
And one of the symptoms is thatyou may have difficulty getting
(02:36):
pregnant.
Historically.
It's been very difficult todiagnose because doctors like,
well, you just have a backcramp.
It's like, oh, you'recomplaining too much.
So the only way that they couldreally diagnose in the past was
to really go into you.
Cut you open extract a littlebit of.
That cell and then check whetheror not that's it.
(02:57):
And most people don't actuallythink whether or not they have
endometriosis until they want toget pregnant and they have
trouble.
So then they go to a fertilitydoctor, et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera.
But more recently it has beenbasically become a more, topic
to be talked about because it'sactually quite common.
So I've been having extremelyterribly painful cramps,
(03:17):
especially over the last fewmonths.
So I went to get an ultrasound,cetera, et cetera, cetera,
because it's one of those thingsthat's really difficult to
diagnose.
You kind of have to go through aperiod until they find out
whether or not you have it.
But one of the side effects ofhaving endometriosis is
difficulty having children, butyou know, a lot of people within
don't do have children.
(03:37):
So it's not like a, youdefinitely cannot.
It's just, it makes it moredifficult, but it definitely got
me thinking about, you know,pregnancy and babies and stuff
like that.
And that's actually been on mymind in the back of my mind,
kind of over the last few yearsever since the end of my last
(03:58):
relationship, because that waswhen, you know, my plan was kind
of disrupted
Kristy (04:04):
Because I remember like when your last relationship
ended And then, and then a chunkof time in the middle for like
healing and growth and likegrieving and all that stuff.
Right.
And then afterwards, when you'reready to date again, it felt
like you are on a mission.
Like part of the reason whyyou're looking for a partner is
like I'm ready to have babies.
(04:26):
Like, gimme a baby daddy.
I remember you use the term,like your eggs are gonna expire.
So you were like very determinedto.
This sounds like I'm making itsound horrible.
I'm making it sound like you're,you're just dating so that you
(04:48):
can have a baby.
No, but like that was part ofyour life plans, right?
Like you wanted to have a babyin your life.
that was always something, thatyou had envisioned your life to,
to be.
And then when your lastrelationship ended, it was like,
Ooh, curve ball.
okay, now my timeline's a littlebit messed up Better to have it
when you're younger.
And you know, we wereapproaching 30.
So basically what I'm saying isthat was the Angie, back in 20
(05:11):
20, when we were first talkingabout this topic on our show, so
where are you at now
Angie (05:18):
Maybe I'll start with what I have come to realize
since then, because I, it's hardto describe where I am at now
because I don't exactly knowwhere I am at now, except that I
am at a, maybe.
I think in hindsight, the reasonwhy I really wanted a baby at
that time is because I feltreally alone in the world and I
wanted to have a family.
(05:39):
And when I was going to therapyat that time, you know, I had a
lot of conversations with mytherapist about loneliness and
the feeling of alone andabandonment, cuz that was one of
my biggest triggers.
I related a lot of things backto, I'm gonna be forgotten.
I'm gonna be abandoned.
That was kind of the coredriving factor for a lot of my
(06:01):
insecurities and fear.
So I think that I had alwaysassumed that once you have a
baby, you will no longer feelempty or alone or abandoned
because then you have this thingin your life.
Kristy (06:17):
like you're tethered to this other human forever
Angie (06:20):
that's right.
Kristy (06:21):
they're your baby.
Angie (06:22):
I like it for me.
It was, it felt like a, I didn'tknow it at the time, but I was
thinking of baby as like a, aform of something to fill that
hole, which I obviously, inhindsight, it's like, that's a
really unhealthy way to thinkabout having babies.
Kristy (06:39):
not a good reason to have a baby, to, to compensate
for your like own insecuritiesor just like fears
Angie (06:47):
right.
But of course, like at the timethat was not why I thought it's
all unconscious, right?
Like at the time I was justlike, why I want a family, my
eggs are expiring.
There were all these very, verylogical explanations about why I
want to have a baby.
I feel lost in life.
I've always wanted a family tobe a part of, My parents have
put me through so much.
(07:08):
I feel like I should give them ababy.
Sorry, my parents, I have put myparents.
I have put my parents through somuch.
I feel like I should give them ababy cuz they want a grandchild.
Kristy (07:18):
a great child.
Thanks for bringing me into the
Angie (07:23):
Yeah.
So a lot of the logicalthinking, I was like, well it
totally makes sense.
Why I want to have a baby.
There's all these reasons, butit wasn't really, until I
started my new relationship thata lot of these fear was coming
back to me because I was nowemotionally connected to another
person, which makes mevulnerable at being abandoned
(07:45):
again.
Kristy (07:47):
here.
Angie (07:47):
So that became a focus for my sessions again.
And of course over time.
I come to realize that, okay.
Maybe the reason why I alwayswanted to have a baby is not why
I should have a baby.
Like of course it's okay for meto feel that way because a lot
(08:08):
of people do, but it's not thereason why I should.
So that's why I am now on amaybe because I'm no longer
like, okay, I, I need to have ababy.
It's more like, okay, let's seeif circumstances will come
together where I'm having a babymake sense.
Kristy (08:26):
I wanna go back to that part where you mentioned, like,
now that you're in a newrelationship, you feel less
alone because there's anotherhuman in your life but you also
feel like there's an extra layerof fear because that means your
partner could leave you.
Angie (08:42):
Yeah, exactly.
Kristy (08:44):
so how does, how does, like, how does the baby or not
having a baby kind of play intothat?
Angie (08:51):
That's a good question.
I, maybe it was, I don't know ifit was related.
I think the fear of abandonmentcame back, when I started a new
relationship, because I thinkthat's quite normal.
Like a lot of people have thatfear when they first started a
relationship.
Right.
Maybe they are related, but Ican't think of why right now,
(09:15):
but I'm sure in some ways theyare related.
Cuz I do remember asking him, ohlike, do you want kids?
Because you know, at our age,when you start dating, you have
to hash out those details
Kristy (09:27):
Yeah, we gotta cut to the chase.
Make sure like we align we don'tgot time to play no games.
Angie (09:34):
Yeah.
You don't have time to date fora few years and then figure it
out.
Like if you're both in yourthirties, you need to be like,
okay, are we on the same page ornot?
So like I asked them like, doyou want babies one day?
He's like, or sorry, do you wantlike, yeah.
Do you want to have kids?
And he said, yeah, eventually.
And I was like, okay, that's apretty reasonable answer.
(09:57):
especially because some peopledon't think in long term like
that.
So for me it was, yeah.
Maybe in like, in three to fiveyears or something like that,
which could be eventually forsomeone like him.
Kristy (10:08):
mm-hmm yeah.
Angie (10:10):
So I was like, okay, I didn't wanna press, because we
had only been together for a fewmonths at that time.
Kristy (10:16):
So it's like, we need to answer all these questions soon,
but like also not too,
Angie (10:23):
I don't wanna, it is such a fine line.
I was like, Ugh, I don't wannalike pressure him cuz it's not
like I want now, but I also needto know that like when
Kristy (10:35):
wanna like also, yeah, you don't wanna freak him out,
but then you also was like, youknow, I got an agenda here.
Angie (10:41):
yeah, exactly.
Like when.
Kristy (10:45):
need to
Angie (10:45):
Like eventually.
Okay.
But gimme like a year, you know,like, is that gonna be like 20,
25 is gonna be 20, 34?
Like, and how
Kristy (10:56):
on my calendar.
Angie (10:58):
I need to plan it out in my head.
And that was my approach.
And, so it bothered me a lot,even though he did answer the
question, I was like, so I toldmy therapist and yeah, I guess
maybe I wasn't asking the rightquestions, but she says, like,
we can't force people to give usan answer if they don't want to,
(11:19):
the best that we can do, or thebest that I can do is tell him
where I'm coming from.
Tell him exactly when I wanthave babies and tell him what's
on my mind and see how he reactsto it.
And so I did, and he was justlike, He's like a silent
participant in a lot of theseconversations, he's a very good
(11:40):
listener, not a great, debateror anything like that.
So he was just like, okay.
And I was like, what are yourthoughts?
And he, and what he said was,well, I guess like for me, I
don't have the pressure ofthinking it like that, like in
terms of a timeline.
So I've never thought about itin that detail And I was like,
(12:01):
okay, that's fair.
But then there was still, thisnagging came behind me, like,
but when, when, and I think thatgave me pressure like that, I
gave myself pressure.
And because of that pressure, Istarted acting like.
out of not like I started actingout of an agenda, like you said,
(12:23):
rather than like seeing wherethe relationship goes.
Because again, I was like, well,we don't have time to waste.
Even though quote unquote, wewere technically on the same
page and that we both eventuallywant children, but I was like,
no, I need a fucking agenda.
Like, I, I know.
Yeah.
Like I need like a planner.
like
Kristy (12:38):
I need a timeline.
Angie (12:39):
I need a timeline.
And that obviously wasn't greatfor the relationship.
It's not a healthy way toapproach a relationship
whatsoever.
Kristy (12:47):
Did you have a timeline in mind?
Angie (12:49):
I did.
I want to have my first kidbefore I turned 34.
Kristy (12:56):
Did you
Angie (12:57):
I did.
Kristy (12:59):
tell him that?
And.
Angie (13:00):
He just like acknowledged what I said, but he didn't say
anything at the time because Idon't think he had time to
process and think about it.
Kristy (13:08):
Especially when he has never given a timeline, the
Angie (13:14):
Yeah, exactly.
Like, I, I, I told him, I'mlike, I'm not putting you in the
spot.
I just wanna tell you this.
So that's why he didn't reallysay anything about his thoughts,
because I told him, I'm like,I'm not pushing you for an
answer.
I just wanted you to know whatmy thoughts are because that's,
that's what my therapistsuggested.
And I was like, okay, thatsounds like a fair conversation
(13:35):
for him so that I'm not justlike, okay, tell me right now.
Like, so I'm not dropping a bombon him, right?
Yeah.
But that did create somefriction because I always had
this thought in the back of mymind.
Well, like what if he's justwasting my time?
Like, oh, this is not gonna workout.
He's gonna leave.
Like, we're gonna break up andthen I'm gonna have to start
over again.
And it's like a self-fulfillingprophe.
(13:55):
So at the time we had beentogether for around six months
and he hurt his back, hurt hisback climbing.
He jumped down a wrong way andhe hurt his back and he couldn't
move.
So the next day I took him tothe hospital, thankfully wasn't
as bad.
But of course I was like, oh mygoodness, so I decided to take
care of him.
(14:16):
but I couldn't really do that athis place because I still needed
to work.
So We packed up some of hisstuff and he came to mine and I
took care of him for a few days.
And then we kind of just gotcomfortable like that so that he
spent, started spending a lot oftime on my place.
it was almost like we wereliving together except he, all
he had at my place were hisclothes.
so I was like, like, does itmake sense for you to just like
(14:38):
move in or something?
Like, I know it's really soon,but a lot of things have
happened really quickly.
you know, pandemic relationship,et cetera.
And he is like, yeah.
Okay.
So we decided this around like Fsurround like February and his
move in date was gonna be March.
But as the date was comingcloser, he started like kind of
shutting out.
(14:58):
So for me, I was gettingtriggered like, oh no, this is
Like the self-fulfillingprophecy, like it's
Kristy (15:03):
Like he's getting cold feet.
He's having second thoughts.
He doesn't wanna move in withme.
What does that mean for ourrelationship?
What does that mean for, for me?
Angie (15:11):
Yeah.
What does that mean for me?
What does that mean for myfuture?
I was so focused on myselfbecause I went into that
defensive mode again.
Right.
Like, oh my God, somebody'sgonna bend on me.
I need to think about myselfbecause I need to protect myself
and self and yeah.
So we ended up breaking up for aweek because I couldn't handle
(15:33):
the heartache of imagining goingthrough this cuz I didn't, I
couldn't see a way out if he hadmoved back, he had he okay.
Not move back.
But he was basically living onmine at that, that point pretty
much if he had chosen not tostay, which would mean that he
was gonna quote unquote, moveback.
(15:53):
that it
Kristy (15:53):
like
Angie (15:53):
result in a lot of conflict.
Kristy (15:56):
like, it's a sign.
Like he, the whole herding, hisback thing was a catalyst to you
guys moving in together and thenpandemic and all of that.
And then you guys moved intogether.
You guys got really comfortable.
He was hanging out a lot at yourplace.
He was practically living thereanyways.
Right.
It's just not officially.
And so him going back to his ownplace is almost a sign of
(16:18):
regression.
Like either the relationship isfalling apart or like, this is a
bad sign because we were movingforward.
So if he goes back, then we'reeither moving backwards or we're
just falling apart.
And neither of those are goodthings.
Angie (16:33):
That's right.
So the regression, which again,relates to, I mean, the reason
why I'm going to the story isbecause it relates to the baby's
thing is like there's adestination for a relationship
getting married and havingbabies.
That was my thought.
And of, of course, in hindsight,I'm like, that was really
unhealthy.
And like, we had this big fight,which resulted in a breakup,
(16:56):
which ended up being just a bigfight because we made up at the
end of the week, like litliterally one week later and
then he's like, you know, thisdoesn't change anything,
anything I'm like, I know thisdoesn't change anything, but I
need to change my perspective.
Kristy (17:12):
Such growth in those seven days?
Angie (17:15):
Something happened in those seven days.
Kristy (17:17):
And you're like, oh shit.
Hmm.
My perspective was a little bitskewed.
I was very focused on me.
I need to think about like us.
And I also need to think aboutyou too.
Like, I need to bring you intothis conversation like that.
I think that's some growth.
If you were able to come to thatconclusion in
Angie (17:34):
I think it's kind of similar to what happened when
you broke up with your B yourex-boyfriend or quote uncle, and
then you flip flopped as well.
Remember, because it does givesome perspective because I was
the one who ended it, eventhough I didn't want to end it
Kristy (17:48):
mm-hmm
Angie (17:49):
because I was like, I don't know, it was a weird
Kristy (17:52):
Yes, same these we, we gotta call it first and, and and
also it feels less well I'mdoing air quotes.
It, it makes us think it wouldfeel less painful if we only
apply logic into coming up withthat conclusion, what we think
at the time is logic.
(18:13):
And so if we were in control,then we have control of how
painful it is.
Like, it feels a little bit lesspainful when it's coming from
me, rather than like you beingdumped.
And, that in of itself is also aform of protection.
It's protecting your ownemotions and But anyways, I
digress.
That's another, that's anotherepisode topic.
Why do we need to have so muchcontrol?
Angie (18:35):
that's exactly it.
But I do think that relates tothe whole baby's thing.
At least for me, it did.
So where I'm at now is afterthose seven days after continue
seeing my therapist and talkingthrough, my mind of thought and
how I thought about this baby'sthing.
When I came to the conclusionwas I want a family.
I want to be a part of a family.
(18:57):
because that was something thatI didn't have at a very
formative time in my life.
I always felt really lonely.
Kristy (19:05):
Yes, I relate so hard, so hard.
Mm
Angie (19:08):
Exactly.
But then I also came to theconclusion that you don't need
to have babies to have a family.
So that was where it was kind oflike, okay, these are the
driving factors of why I wannahave a baby.
As soon as I realized those arethe driving factors.
I was like, well, that'sunhealthy.
like, that was being like, okay,well that's fucked up.
And, I don't wanna fuck up mychildren and you don't have to
(19:32):
have babies to have a familybecause you can just be family
between the two of you and yourfriends and stuff like that.
So I was like, okay.
So I kind of started to relax onthat idea.
And I even told him, I was like,I don't think I want children
anymore.
Kristy (19:47):
when,
Angie (19:48):
um,
Kristy (19:48):
when did you say this to him?
Cause in our story, we weretalking up until you know, you
guys, you guys got backtogether.
So when did you
Angie (19:55):
I can't remember because things happened so quickly
because we weren't seeinganybody else, like friends,
family.
It was just us two
Kristy (20:06):
pandemic relationships?
Angie (20:08):
it felt like several months after we got back
together.
But in reality it was probablylike two months or even one
month.
I don't know, like, you knowwhat I mean?
Like emotionally it felt like alot, a long time after, but in
reality, probably not.
So I told him that and he waslike, okay, like, he didn't
really say anything.
He just noded and acknowledgedwhat I said.
(20:30):
And then sometime later I toldhim again, I want have kids.
Kristy (20:35):
Oh my gosh.
So now you're flip floppingbetween the babies.
Angie (20:38):
Yeah.
And he's like so confused.
He's like, okay, so you reallywant kids.
And then you say you didn't wantkids and now you want kids
again.
He's like, I'm really confused.
I was like, I know I'm reallyconfused too.
and that's when I was, Irealized I was like, okay, let
me rephrase this.
It's not that I really, reallywant children.
And it's not that I'm reallyagainst having children.
(21:00):
I just am at this gray area of,I don't know.
And then he did this.
Oh, mm.
Like kind of likeacknowledgement.
And I agree with you kind ofthing.
I was like, is that pretty muchwhere you are?
He's like, yeah.
And I was like, okay, now we'reon the same page.
So when he said, eventually itwas more like a maybe, but maybe
(21:21):
he didn't wanna upset me orsomething, you know?
Kristy (21:23):
He's also been conditioned by the society that
we live in.
Like that's just the part of theplan in life.
Maybe he's just like, yeah.
Eventually, but like, he wasn'tsure if, if he's sure.
No, because he's.
Against it, but he's not totallyfor it.
So then he'll just lean into thedefault status quo, which is
(21:44):
like, okay.
Yeah.
I'll probably eventually havekids because that's what
everybody does.
Right?
Like, so
Angie (21:52):
And he, and he doesn't have, expiring eggs to think
about.
You and I, and I would say atleast a handful of my close
friends have been in that grayarea for some time, because they
had their yes or no decision atsome point.
And they decided that they're inthe gray area, but I do also
(22:12):
have friends who are absoluteyes.
And friends who are an absolute,no.
Which at the time was you
Kristy (22:22):
I mean, I'm not that far away from the absolute.
No, but so I still wanna say Iam team.
No,
Angie (22:32):
Okay.
Kristy (22:32):
but I'm.
Uh, man,
Angie (22:36):
Uh,
Kristy (22:37):
sometimes I have these trickling thoughts that come in
just randomly, you know, howlike random thoughts pop in your
head.
Right.
And so sometimes I will have arandom thought of be like, what?
I wonder what my kid would looklike.
I wonder would be like to, youknow, raise a teenager.
I wonder what kind of clothes Iwill buy them, you know, like
(22:58):
small things like that.
And sometimes like, it shows up,in my work, whether it's
pediatric nutrition, whetherit's nutrition for pregnant
people, whether it's teachingabout food, food, literacy,
cooking skills in, in schoolclassrooms, so food and
(23:18):
nutrition and kids, you know,that combination shows up in my
work sometimes.
So I will have a random thought.
I'll be like, I wonder how Iwould teach my kid about food,
or I would, I would think oflike fun, creative ways to teach
my kid, food and likeexperiencing different senses
and playing with food and likeenjoying different types of
food.
(23:39):
And, so it's not like I sit downand I think, oh, do I wanna have
a kid or not?
And when I do have theseconversations with myself, I
it's mostly a no, but I wouldhave like random thoughts that
pop in my head, whether it be,inspired by work or I see
someone on the streets orwhatever, or just random shower
(24:00):
moments.
Right.
And they'll come up and I'venever really had those thoughts
before, but I've been havingthem more lately.
When I say lately, I mean, likein the last, I don't know, year
or two ish, maybe longer.
And I didn't really wanna admitthat because I was so do you
know, children for so long.
(24:20):
and, and it makes me, you know,it just makes me wonder, and now
I'm like, maybe I'm not so 100%against the thought of having
kids.
And I wonder if like, thesethoughts are a sign or if
they're just like naturalthoughts you have, but it
doesn't mean that it's, it'sactually what I want.
Angie (24:42):
Hmm.
Kristy (24:43):
Cause who wouldn't be curious, right.
About like what your kid mightlook like, but
Angie (24:49):
Yeah.
Or like how, what kind of personthey will be and will they have
the traits that you value andwill you be able to, so for me,
it's a lot more high levelinstead of, I think it's so cute
that you thought about likeclothes and stuff like that.
That's so sweet for me.
It's more like, what kind ofperson are they gonna be?
How are they going to approachlife?
(25:11):
Are they gonna be a kind person?
Are they gonna pick up thevalues that I want them to have?
And what are they gonna be likewith my husband or my baby
daddy?
what are they gonna be like withmy parents?
What are they gonna be like withmy friends?
Like stuff like that, becauseyou're when you have a baby,
you're not just introducing anew life into the world, you're
(25:34):
introducing a new person intoyour existing support system.
Like it takes a village or stufflike that.
And you know that everyonearound you is going to do their
part
Kristy (25:44):
it.
You're not just bringing a childinto the world.
You're bringing a child intoyour world.
Angie (25:50):
That's right.
and I know how happy it'll makemy parents.
So for me, that was kind ofwhere I was coming from.
And of course, when during thoseseven days of the fight slash
breakup, I did have thatconversation with my mom.
(26:12):
And what she said was, eventhough I mentioned some of those
comments to you, I don't want topressure you.
She's like, I do not care if youhave kids or not.
I just think it would bring youso much joy if you do, because
you've brought me joy.
Kristy (26:27):
Ooh oh, oh.
That's like mom saying I loveyou.
Angie (26:30):
yeah.
I know.
But it was not in those exactwords.
It was
Kristy (26:33):
Uh, that's pretty dark close, man.
That's I, I say that is wayhigher than her peeling.
An orange for you.
Angie (27:32):
Yeah.
So when she said that and shesaid, she also said it would be
also such a shame, because whatshe meant was like, you are so
capable that it would be a shamefor you not to give another
child such a good life like tobe taken care of and to be a
mentor, like a role model forsomeone else, because I was such
(27:55):
an easy daughter for her to haveit'd be a shame because I'm so
capable
Kristy (28:00):
Mm-hmm I think she's right.
I think, I think your mom'sright.
I think it would be a shamebecause you are such a capable
person.
You are like, I think you wouldbe a great mom is basically what
I'm trying to say.
Angie (28:14):
thank you.
Kristy (28:15):
But at the same time, I wonder if I know she says like,
I don't wanna pressure you and Idon't care if you have kids or
not, but to say it would be sucha shame is almost kind of like a
guilt tripping thing.
Angie (28:27):
Oh, yeah.
It's absolutely.
Yes.
And she, she says, oh no,absolutely.
And that's such a, like a thingthat my mom does that she like
contradicts herself, but shedoesn't realize it.
So she doesn't realize that bysaying that she is giving me
pressure, but she's not, she'ssaying she's not, but because
she's comparing it to her socialcircle.
(28:49):
Right.
And her social circle is Chinesemoms being like, have a kid.
Where's my grandchild, have akid now have a kid now.
Whereas my mom is like, no, likeshe's not gonna say that stuff
to me directly.
But she says stuff that is maybeguilt tripping a little bit,
maybe a little bit like fishingfor, you know, an answer kind of
(29:10):
stuff like that.
So to her, she's not pressuringme directly, but she also
doesn't realize some of thecomments she make is a little
bit, you know, does gimme alittle bit of pressure.
Kristy (29:20):
Which is basically part of her identity because she is
very liberal compared to a lotof typical Asian moms, but she
is still herself, an Asian mom.
So she's still gonna, you know,hold some of those typical Asian
mom characteristics so like I'vetold my mom, I tell her all the
time, it's almost like I keeppushing that seed deeper and
(29:43):
deeper into her brain.
that?
Now she's just like, she knowsI'm not gonna have kids and
she's accepted the fact that I'mnot gonna have kids.
She's never pressured me.
She's never like, I wanna be agrandma.
Like, what are you gonna give mebabies?
Like, it's more like my grandmathat says those things.
and then my mom will like, tryto shut her up is hilarious.
(30:04):
It's like watching.
Us but older it's gross.
Anyway.
anyways.
so like I've, I've always beenthe one to tell my mom how I
feel about the kids thing, butI've actually never asked her
how she felt about potentiallynot having grandchildren.
(30:26):
And I know it's not up to her.
It's my life.
And I get to do what I want withit and it's my body, et cetera.
But lately I can't help, butwonder like, does she feel some
sadness that she might never bea grandma?
And I'm so afraid to approachthat topic to her, just thinking
(30:48):
about it is, is making meemotional and yeah, she'll
sprinkle things in to try toconvince me to have a kid, but
she's.
She knows.
I've made my decision.
In fact, I, I make her thinkthat I am so team, no kids more
than I actually am, but like, I,I do want to know, am I taking
(31:11):
something away from her?
And like, how does she feelabout not having grandchildren,
not being able to become agrandma?
Like,
Angie (31:20):
Do you think that on some level she feels like it's her
fault?
Kristy (31:24):
oh, I've never considered that before.
What do you mean.
Angie (31:29):
Like, because you had to be a caretaker at such a young
age that you no longer want totake care of another being and
that maybe the, adversity youwent through as a child has made
you.
Prone not less like has made yousee that childhood isn't always
(31:50):
full of rainbows and butter.
Kristy (31:52):
I don't know.
I mean, I just haven't thoughtabout it, but I could see her, I
could see her come to thatconclusion.
I know she feels guilty aboutnot being in my life, especially
during childhood and I'm suremaking assumptions.
I'm not sure, but I think tosome degree she feels regret for
(32:14):
not taking custody of me I thinkit's, I think it's really
complicated because it's like, Idon't know how often she thinks
about the, what if.
but I know she's a veryemotional person and she used to
live in the past a lot.
She has improved drastically inthe last year or so.
(32:36):
And I'm so proud of her in theprogress that she's made with
herself, trying to be morepresent and think about her,
think about her instead ofeverybody else.
Cuz she would do a lot of thingsthat she would do a lot of
things for other people, butnever herself.
And then she would just live inthe past, you know?
So I don't know.
And maybe that's part of why I'mscared to approach this topic
(32:58):
with her of like what it wouldbe like for you.
If you weren't going to be agrandma.
I don't know if she wants to beone or like, I don't know.
I, I just don't.
I just don't know what herthoughts are on this topic,
besides that she respects mydecisions, but subtly sprinkles
in reasons why I should havekids without knowing, or maybe
(33:23):
she knows,
Angie (33:26):
I think our moms have a lot more in common than we
think,
Kristy (33:30):
that's why they're hanging out.
They're like, this is Ky stuff.
Okay.
I thought, I thought it'd belike, you know, a couple times a
year, maybe like be, you know,friendly acquaintances, like,
oh, our daughters hang out.
Our daughters are friends andthey do podcast.
They are okay.
Okay.
Poop.
Jus let's give you a side,little update.
Our moms have been hanging outevery single.
Angie (33:55):
you know, we can't
Kristy (33:55):
Every week, every, okay.
Angie and I, we do podcasting onSundays.
Right?
That's why our episodes drop onSundays.
We record on Sundays.
So we like hang out.
Okay.
Pretty much every Sunday.
Well, we used to hang out waymore when I was in Vancouver,
but now our moms are alsohanging out.
Every Sundays is
Angie (34:18):
Yep.
That's when the hiking groupmeets, but then also on Canada
day, they hung out.
there was another, mom there aswell.
The three of them went todowntown together and had like a
girl's day
Kristy (34:32):
nah, oh.
like, like, I would think youwould have these girl Hangouts
with people that you're likevery close to, you know, that
you like enjoy hanging out with.
And I didn't know that they wereat that level already.
Okay.
Angie (34:49):
They have so much in common.
From what my mom has told me, itsounds like all three of them
are kind of the independentreally on their own.
It's not like their husbands arewith them.
Their boyfriends are with them.
All three of them havedaughters.
One daughter, two of them areright here.
(35:09):
I think the other woman is theone whose daughter is in
Switzerland doing or, or Swedendoing her masters.
And she doesn't wanna come backto Vancouver.
And
Kristy (35:18):
So also also very strong, capable, independent
daughters.
Angie (35:24):
that's right.
Which they should realize takesafter them.
Kristy (35:28):
I hope so.
Do they realize that?
I hope they do.
I hope they, I hope they like,you know, celebrate and like do
little, the three of them justlike cheers, champagne, fruit,
C.
Champ champagne flutes, and belike, look us, go
Angie (35:45):
Yeah.
I don't know if they think that,but it would be very cute, but
they, yeah, the three of themhave so much in common
Kristy (35:51):
anyways.
Where, how do we get here?
Oh, telling our moms about,
Angie (35:57):
yeah.
And, and the pressure andwhether or not we know, like, I
know that if I don't havegrandchild, I think my mom has
grappled with that, that shemight not have a grandchild.
I think that's why she treatsEvie, like her grandchild, like,
you know, giving.
So for those who don't know yet,Evie is my dog.
Kristy (36:17):
It's basically a child in our generation.
Like
Angie (36:20):
yeah, basically.
That's.
Kristy (36:22):
pets.
Are the new children like, comeon, get, get with, oh my gosh.
What was.
Trend, thanks with the trend.
Angie (36:31):
like my mom gave her a red pocket when she came home
and then my mom gave her anotherred pocket on her birthday.
Kristy (36:40):
That's so cute.
That's so cute.
Okay.
If maybe when I have a cat, thenI won't feel so.
So I don't know weird about thiswhole situation, because I think
same thing, like my mom has cometo terms that I'm probably not
gonna have a kid, so thereforeshe's probably not gonna become
a grandma.
I I'm gonna guess that there'ssome sort of a sadness as part
(37:05):
of that.
And you know, but she's come toterms with it and she's accepted
it and she respects it now.
I'm, I'm hoping, you know, onceI have my little baby, my little
cat baby, that, that she could,she could treat it.
as she
Angie (37:26):
I think, I think she would.
I think she would.
And, and, one other thing thathas also made me go, okay, maybe
I am back more on the side ofyes.
Because seeing how involved myboyfriend is with Evie and
seeing how involved my mom iswith Evie and seeing how
supportive my boyfriend's mom iswith Evie makes me think that,
(37:53):
of course they'll be the same.
If I have a baby,
Kristy (37:57):
would a grandchild, it's like a child test for a
Angie (37:59):
a child test.
Absolutely.
And my, my friends who now havea baby, they started off with a
dog as well.
And they will always say thatthe dog is their first child.
It's their first son and their,their human son is their second
son.
and we actually went for, myfriend's birthday dinner, and I
guess him and my boyfriendstarted talking and he messaged
(38:23):
me a couple days later and go,do you guys want kids?
And I was like, whoa, what, whatare like, just like question.
I was like, yeah, I don't know.
I think eventually he's like,,he really liked the way my
boyfriend talked about Evie.
He could really see how much hecares and like my friend who was
at like my friend, he thoughtthat my boyfriend would make a
(38:44):
great dad.
That's how obvious it was to himand Evie wasn't even there.
It was just throughconversation.
Kristy (38:52):
Your partner's just like exuding dad vibes.
Angie (38:55):
He is definitely exuding dad vibes.
He already has so much of thatand it just makes me so happy to
feel that.
My best friend have asked melike, oh, like, do you think
things are better now?
Or like, are things tougher withEvie?
I was like, at first it wastough in terms of sleeping
schedule, but I've never beenmore in love with him because he
(39:15):
is so good.
He's so thoughtful and soconsiderate.
And it's a side of him that Iwouldn't have seen before.
So it is really sweet andthey're really sweet together.
And I told my friend, I said, ifwe do have kids, I'm pretty sure
it would be up to me.
So.
I can kind of see a future witha kid now because I see how much
(39:37):
love and support they
Kristy (39:39):
sweet.
Hmm.
Yeah.
and who knows, like, you know, Imight change my mind depending
on my life circumstances,depending on when I get a kitty.
Right.
Maybe I'll be like, this istotally enough.
Or I'll I might feel like, oh mygosh, maybe I want more.
Right.
It's interesting that when youimagine potentially having a kid
(40:01):
it's it's with you, it's withyour partner, it's involving
your whole family.
it's bringing, yeah, like I saidearlier, it's, it's bringing a
baby into your world.
When I imagined having a, a kid,I was always alone.
Angie (40:18):
would get.
Oh.
Kristy (40:18):
Like, I didn't even think about my mom, you know,
helping out or how she mighttreat my, yeah.
It's not to say, like, I don'tthink she would.
I just, it, it just didn'tnaturally come into the picture
and, and it's not like, how do Iput this?
if I were to bring a child intothe world, I would like to do
(40:40):
that with a partner.
But when I I close my eyes and Ipicture it, even though I want
there to be a partner.
And sometimes in that, you know,imagination there is, but it's
always just some like shadowedfigure, just kind of like
looming in the background, notreally super involved, you know,
like they're there, but like notreally there, you know what I'm
saying?
Maybe it's just because like, Idon't know who the baby daddy's
(41:02):
gonna be and therefore it's socryptic or maybe subconsciously,
I feel like I need to do thisall on my own.
Even, even if there was a personthere, I would still feel like
majority of the responsibilityand majority of how my life will
change is gonna be on me andmaybe subconsciously.
(41:24):
That's why I don't want to havechildren because it seems really
exhausting and tiring andactually lonely.
Angie (41:33):
No.
If you were here right now, Iwould give you a hug.
Kristy (41:37):
virtual hugs.
Angie (41:39):
Yeah.
Virtual hugs.
think that's because you had tohandle so much on your own as a
child.
That you have become you know,that you can always rely on
yourself, but you know that youcan't
Kristy (41:51):
Yes.
What you just said there?
Absolutely.
Because it's like the, theperson that you can confidently
trust in this entire world isyou, I'm not saying I have trust
issues.
I don't think.
But I can't confidently say Ihave full trust in another.
Okay.
That, that does sound
Angie (42:12):
rely on other people.
Kristy (42:16):
wow.
What a, what a revelation.
Angie (42:20):
you're you're also giving major Katniss vibes right now.
Because she had to take care ofher mom and her sister.
And she like, you know, she hadresented her mom a lot.
and then she knows that shecan't trust anybody except
herself, which is why she wasso, distrusting of Peeta but
then eventually she came torealize that it's always better
(42:42):
to do it with someone
Kristy (42:43):
And she didn't wanna have kids
Angie (42:45):
that's right.
Kristy (42:46):
until Peeta came along
Angie (42:48):
There you go.
Kristy (42:49):
her mind and felt like, so.
Angie (42:52):
It's not that it's.
Yeah.
It's not that you need to have aPeeta to have child, but I think
if somebody came into your lifeand showed you that they can be
relied upon that they are therefor you then maybe.
Kristy (43:06):
Yeah.
And it like what it took.
Okay.
Spoilers alert for hunger games.
It took her, I think like 15years before she even decided to
actually have a kid with Peetaafterwards.
I think, I think a lot of peoplelove, the Kaus character, but
there is a big part of me thatrelates to her because of her
(43:27):
upbringing.
It's not like I lived indistrict 13, but.
Angie (43:31):
12
Kristy (43:32):
Oh dear.
Oh, shame on me.
I've been in very Harry Pottermode lately.
Okay.
I must say I just came back fromthe curse child.
So, you know, like also notcannon.
Okay.
Don't no hate everybody.
Like I know it's not Canon, butit, the, the play is pretty
(43:52):
good.
Okay.
So I, yes.
I relate to Katniss and yeah,like, I don't feel like I can
fully rely on another humanbeing right now besides me.
So maybe the conclusion is Ineed a Peeta to walk into my
life and then spend 15 years toconvince me
Angie (44:13):
and you know, that's, that's totally understandable.
You can't work on trust issuesalone.
You can only work on trustissues with someone else.
Right.
Because you have to develop thattrust.
And for me too, like, it took mea while to trust that my
boyfriend's not just in the getup and leave because he wants
to.
Took me a lot to accept that hewants to be here.
And there's a reason why he'shere.
(44:35):
And if something does happenwhere he no longer wants to be
here, then it is what it is.
I can't live day to day thinkingthat he's gonna leave.
Yeah.
So, I mean, I was reading lastnight as I was following asleep,
he rolled over and put his headon my shoulder and I was like,
Ugh, this has never happenedever.
Yeah.
Kristy (44:57):
up the episode.
Angie (44:58):
Yeah.
I guess we went all over theplace a little bit, but I think
that's very representative ofhow we feel about wanting
babies.
Kristy (45:06):
So it's basically exactly what we should have
done.
and then I would say
Angie (45:09):
right.
I guess in summary, it's likeone, don't think about babies as
a solution to your problems.
It took me a while to realizethat, but I'm so glad I realized
that before I actually had ababy
Kristy (45:22):
third
Angie (45:23):
two, it takes not just you to raise a baby.
It literally takes a village asthey say.
And I know that there are singleparents out there who do a lot
of it on their own and like madrespect, but I can see why
somebody would be hesitant tohave a child if they don't know
for exact guarantee that theywill receive additional support,
(45:44):
especially in this economy.
Kristy (45:49):
is Really think about why is it that you choose to
have a child or not have achild, like really ask yourself
that question and, and maybe askyourself multiple times.
Because if someone asks me why Idon't wanna have a kid, I can
list off lots of logicalreasons.
But if I'm really questioningmyself, like, is it, this is it
(46:11):
because I have trust issues?
Is it because I have fear ofbeing alone Maybe it's am I
having this?
Because my family wants me tohave this.
Is it because my partner wantsme to have this, like, are, are
you having a child?
Because everybody else around,you want you to have a child,
but do you want a child?
Angie (46:29):
Yeah.
And I think those are veryunderstandable and valid reasons
if somebody does choose to havea child, but I think it sets up
a good foundation before goinginto parenthood to know why you
are having a child as well.
On top of the other reasons why,you know, you should or
shouldn't, but why you want to
Kristy (46:50):
okay.
That's it?
That, that's all we got
Angie (46:53):
that's all we got because that's all we know.
Kristy (46:56):
and neither of us are fully a hundred percent.
Yes or no.
And maybe that's a, maybe that'sa good thing because we're
accepting of either or
Angie (47:06):
Yep.
Kristy (47:07):
okay.
Piece.
Aww.
Angie (47:44):
Okay.
So side note, this is a cutestory Evie has now equated the
word grandma with my mom.
Like she knows who grandma is,
Kristy (47:52):
That is so cute.
Angie (47:54):
isn't it?
Kristy (47:55):
That is so cute.
Angie (47:57):
I realized it a while ago, because one time, I was
saying like, oh, oh, likegrandma's grandma's house,
whatever this weekend, grandma.
And then she sprinted to thedoor and I was like, cuz usually
like, well I'll be like Eddie.
Grandma's here, grandma's here.
And then my mom will come in.
So she has now come tounderstand, grandma is my mom
(48:21):
and it's so cute.
So I sent my mom videos beforewhere I say grandma and every
like looks over at the door.
Kind of thing.
And I, I was like, and then onetime I said a word that was
really similar to grandma, butit wasn't, I think I said, shout
a grammar at Nick
Kristy (48:34):
Ah,
Angie (48:35):
and then EV bolted as well.
And I was like, I'm so it's not,but either way, she knows that
word now.
And it's so cute.
And I sent videos to my mom andshe obviously brags about it to
my dad.
And last time when my parentscame over to have, spot PRS,
there was one moment where, somy, my dad never really knew
(48:56):
what to do with Evie.
Like when he first met her, she,he was just like, okay.
Yeah, like that's a dog.
Right.
Well,
Kristy (49:06):
just like, imagine him doing that.
Yeah.
Angie (49:11):
the thing is Evie.
Yeah.
And Evie's such a family though,though.
She'll like wag her tail, go upto my dad and try to like give
him kisses and play with him,but he wouldn't know what to do.
So he would just kind of laughawkwardly.
And then there was one timewhere we saw him petting Evie
and instead petting Evie withhis hand, he pet her with his
elbow.
I don't know.
Maybe he was, I think maybe hewas scared of being bitten cuz
(49:33):
you know, when they grew up,dogs were pretty like
unpredictable.
Yeah.
They're not like trained likethey are nowadays.
but when he came over, I couldtell he was jealous that he Evie
didn't know what grandpa means.
And then, and then he, Evie wassitting, looking at him and my
dad was like, you are Evie.
(49:54):
I am grandpa.
And I was like, oh my God, likeit was this, it was such a sweet
moment, like, because, and Evieobviously has no idea what he's
talking about.
So she just like, has her mouthopen, like looking at him.
yeah,
Kristy (50:12):
Oh, that's Hmm.
Angie (50:12):
such a cute moment.
Kristy (50:14):
I love that.
I love that story.
Angie (50:16):
You are Evie.
I am grandpa.
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