December 10, 2024 • 27 mins
DeAnn's conversation with Laura Nelson, founder of Front Office Rocks and Sober Life Rocks. Laura discusses her journey from starting her own business to advocating for sober professionals. She shares her personal struggle with alcohol, leading to her sobriety in early 2020, and the founding of Sober Life Rocks to support sober professionals at conferences. Laura emphasizes the need for inclusive event planning, highlighting issues like the lack of non-alcoholic options and the pressure to drink. Her book, "The Inclusive Event Planner," targets meeting planners and HR to improve event inclusivity. She shares information on the Sober Life Rocks community and LinkedIn group for support and advocacy.
Reference Links:
Sober Life Rocks Website:
https://soberliferocks.com/
Sober Life Rocks LinkedIn Group:
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14532282
The Inclusive Event Planner
https://inclusiveeventplanner.com/
If you have questions or comments or would like to be a guest on the Recovery Discovery Podcast, send an email to:
deann@showupandstay.org
More information about our project is available at:
https://www.showupandstay.org/
https://www.soberpositiveworkplace.org/
For podcast updates, follow us on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/showupandstayorg/
Music and Audio Production by Katie Hare.
https://www.hare.works
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DeAnn Knighton (00:00):
Hi, welcome back to the show. I have always been
confused by the phrase, it'sjust business. It's not
personal. How can that be trueabout a place where we spend so
much of our time? My napkintheory is that this was a way to
regulate dissenters and errorsof top down leadership styles.
Whether or not that's true, it'snot realistic anymore to say
(00:22):
that work is not personal, andthe trends support this,
individuals are increasinglylooking for ways to align their
work with their values, takingto heart perhaps Erickson stages
of development, which reminds usthat midlife is the space where
we find either generativity orstagnation. Today, I welcome
Laura Nelson, founder of frontoffice rocks and most recently,
(00:45):
sober life rocks, which is acommunity dedicated to
supporting sober professionals.
She's also the author of therecently released book the
inclusive event planner, a quickstart guide to planning sober
friendly conferences. Laura, I'mso glad you're here. Awesome.
Unknown (01:02):
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
DeAnn Knighton (01:04):
We have so much to talk about, and I want to
jump right in with your story. Ilove hearing the ways in which
people have turned passion intowork. Maybe. Let's start with
your path to founding frontoffice rocks for
Unknown (01:20):
sure, yeah. So I married a guy out of undergrad
and have my degree in HumanResources and organizational
development, and he went todental school, graduated dental
school, and I joined him to runhis dental practice over the 20
plus years that I was runningthe practice, one of the things
that I thought was missing inour industry was good team
(01:40):
training, employee training, andso I started an online website
that teaches customer serviceand systems to dental teams. And
then from that, I've had theopportunity to start speaking
and traveling around and doingthe conferences. And that is now
primarily what I do, is I doonline team training and then go
from conference to conferenceand speak on it in front of live
(02:02):
audiences. So that's my day job.
DeAnn Knighton (02:04):
Got it so you're very comfortable being in front
of people advocating for thingsit sounds like. So how did that
move into this work that you'redoing now related to sobriety?
Unknown (02:15):
So I was married for 22 years, have two wonderful
children, speaking, traveling,building a business, and found
myself in my mid 40s, separated.
My ex husband and I went ourseparate ways for our reasons,
alone. My adult children now outof the house and all through my
career, I drank like it seemedlike everybody else did. I go to
(02:37):
the conferences. I do the sportsthing. I do, the moms thing, you
know, the whole thing, but endedup really starting to struggle
with two things. One, I the onlyreal relationship I had in my
life every day was alcohol,which was not necessarily a good
thing when you're depressed andalone and questioning my
relationship as I'm in this darkspace with what am I doing? What
(03:00):
is this right? Continue to growmy business and speak while I
was alone, but also recognizingthat I was leaning more and more
to alcohol that I ever had in mylife, and was getting in a
really kind of dark spot. Didn'tconsider myself an alcoholic.
You know, my dad always said,careful. We have alcoholism in
our family. And I thought, Well,okay, but I don't know anybody
(03:21):
who doesn't drink, so I guess wejust try to control it, you
know, like we get all done indifferent moments in our life
struggling. I'm just like, Idon't understand why I am doing
this, but I can't stop, andeverybody else seems to be doing
it. And then I went to aconference in 2019 where I was
had the opportunity to speak aday early, like I was supposed
(03:42):
to speak on Friday, but theyasked me to speak on Thursday
because something changed, and Ihadn't prepared to speak on
Thursday, so I drank more than Iwould have drank the night
before I speak, therefore notwanting to get on stage, because
I wasn't feeling 100% as I wouldif I'd known I was speaking the
next day. And that kind of hitme like a, you know, ton of
bricks of like, this is mycareer. Yet I can't just jump on
(04:04):
stage because of the drinkingthat I did the night before. And
then in January of 2020, I wentto a conference, woke up again
with a headache because, youknow, did the social thing that
we do at the hotel bars and allof that. And went to the gym
that morning, tried to makemyself feel better, and got on
the treadmill and tried to findsomething that was going to,
(04:27):
like, inspire me for the day.
And I came across the TED talkabout gray area drinking. And
that morning was the morningwhere I was like, I finally
could put a name to what myproblem was. I didn't consider
myself an alcoholic, whether youare or aren't, that's an
internal decision. But that day,I was like, Okay, this is my
problem. And I really relatedwith the TED Talk. And then
(04:50):
thankfully, that same day, I sawsomebody else speaking, and at
that time, she was sober, andshe mentioned from the stage,
she's somebody I looked up to inour career, somebody a couple.
Years ahead of me, and shementioned how her best friends
were Ben Jerry and Chardonnay,and she had to change that,
because she needed relationshipswith humans and not alcohol and
(05:10):
sugar. And because she told thatstory and she was sober at that
moment, I thought, if she can doit, I can do it. And I came home
that day, and that was the lasttime I drank, which was early
2020
DeAnn Knighton (05:20):
There's so much I can relate to in that. The
first thing I want to mention ishow cool it is that she was out
there speaking and that thatinspired you. I think that is so
important we have all of theseold understandings of what we
think sobriety looks like, orwhat people might think it looks
like if they haven't exploredthis. And it's so important to
(05:40):
see that it's not this darkthing, but actually is very
bright and vibrant. So I lovehearing that story, that you
were empowered by that speech. Ialso can relate to the
conference thing. I was in salesand marketing for most of my
career. I did multipleconferences and traveled well
into my late 30s, and drinkingwas at the center of all of it,
(06:02):
to the point now that I stilleven have kind of some weird
feelings in certain spaces, likehotel rooms, where I used to
spend a lot of time that like,remind me of kind of a dark
time. And I also can mention toyou that when I first got sober,
one of my first sort ofexperiences that led me to
starting this podcast, and thiswork had to do with the
(06:24):
convention that I attended as asober person, where it was like,
so eye opening to realize thisis like college level pressure
drinking happening here, andmaybe I never realized it before
because I was on the other sideof it, but being on this side is
that this isn't right. This isnot creating an environment
that's inclusive. Tell us aboutyour book. Maybe share a tip or
(06:49):
two of your favorites out ofthat as well. That'd be great.
Last
Unknown (06:52):
year, actually, a year ago, November, I was at a
conference where the idea ofsilver Life Rocks birthed
similar to you, where we were ata conference, my business
partner and I, and we thought wewere the only two sober people
there. We didn't know. And I wason a panel, a wellness panel,
and I asked how many people inhere consider themselves sober,
sober, ish or sober? Curious,and like 15 to 20% of the people
(07:15):
raised their hand. But the issuewas, there was no good options
for non alcoholic drinks. Theevent planner only had beer and
wine. Most of almost everybodydidn't know about each other. So
many times, when you go to aconference like that with the
peer pressure, it's alreadyawkward. Anyway, it's already
hard. Some people it'striggering, but also you feel
very alone, and that's reallywhere we started sober life
(07:38):
rocks is to build a communityand connection, where we don't
feel alone at these events, amember in our community that was
on our podcast, you talkedabout, if you know there's just
one other sober person in theroom with you, you're not alone.
So many people are sober insilence. I feel like you know,
in our professional world, we'reso proud of all the things that
we do, the accomplishments, theaccolades, but we don't
(07:59):
celebrate and honor oursobriety, and that's one of the
biggest accomplishments we have.
I mean, that's one of mysuperpowers, is like I overcame
the peer pressure of society andas a norm, to be on the side of
not drinking and not that. It's,you know, it's not for
everybody, but for me, it'sgreat, and I want to celebrate
it. I want to, I want it to bepart of my story. So that's
(08:20):
where it kind of started a yearago, and then we have started to
really focus in on conferences,events, meeting planning.
Because in your personal life,you can choose where you go to,
what restaurants you go to, whatbars you go to, who you hang out
with. You have the option. Butin your professional life, many
times you don't, you can'tchoose, as a salesperson, which
(08:42):
sales dinners you're going to goto, or which after hours events
you're going to go to, whichconferences you're going to go
to. We roll up the black bar atthe end of the night and
everyone stands around anddrinks. And that's the way we
connect, and that's the mainthing we do. We're just standing
around the bar drinking. And soI really wanted to make an
impact in this part of ourindustry or in our world,
(09:05):
because if we have more peoplewho are raising their hands
saying, I don't want to drink,even if you aren't sober, but
you just don't want to drink atindustry events, like you don't
want to drink at work, becauseit's many good reasons
potentially not to it. We're notdoing it. We're faking it by
putting a lime in our drink andhiding that we're not drinking
because we don't want to dealwith the peer pressure. So we
(09:27):
have more people who would beokay with just saying they're
sober they don't want to drink,and then have better options at
these conferences, so that wecan feel more included, and they
can have more evening eventsthat's not just focused around
the alcohol, more people wouldfeel included and be part of it.
And so that's really where thebook idea came from. Because now
it's not just building thecommunity like you're doing and
(09:49):
I'm doing and people talkingabout it, but now we have to
actually change this part of theindustry. We have to really
change the meeting spaces andthe convention spaces, which is
what I talk about. Out and I'mtackling in the book,
DeAnn Knighton (10:01):
is the audience for the book, like vendors at
these events, who's it targetedfor?
Unknown (10:07):
It's actually, it's targeted for, you know, meeting
planners. HR, but I mean, we'recoming into holiday season right
now, and there's after ourevents for all of your teams and
stuff. So anybody, basically,who is hosting an event that
wants to have the people comingto you included. And I'm
learning so much of this lastyear, like a lot of people are
like, Hey, Laura, you're comingto our thing. We made mocktails
(10:31):
for you, which I superappreciate. But usually the
mocktails are some sticky sweet,you know, lemonade thing in a
picture over by the kids table,and they're putting a sign that
says cocktails. And for me, it'slike, I can still have an adult
beverage. It doesn't need tohave alcohol in it. That's the
only difference. The meetingplanners are trying to get
there, but we're not quitethere, and if the event still
(10:53):
just centers around drinking,that is one of the major issues.
People don't feel included. Ifwe're just doing the alcohol,
like we can be doing otherthings. And so it's really to
anybody who hosts events from 10to, you know, 10,000 really
starting to think, because a lotof people who aren't on the
other side don't know what it'slike to go to these events when
(11:16):
they are still part of the, youknow, the regular society and
drinking. I think that's
DeAnn Knighton (11:21):
really smart.
And I think you're, you're rightabout it's, it's great to be
inclusive in practice, I sharedan experience on this podcast
about a time that I tried a nonalcoholic wine tasting
experience with other people atthe table who were drinking, and
the server got the glassesconfused, and it was this whole
thing. Now I'm a person whoidentifies as in recovery from
substance use disorder, sohaving a drink to me feels like
(11:44):
a big deal. It would have beenupsetting to me and to my
experience. And so there's thiselement of Yes, be inclusive.
Yes. It can feel good. Also, becareful thinking of that. What
are some ways for it to not feellike an afterthought, and to not
necessarily call attention inthe wrong way. What does a good
(12:04):
experience look like
Unknown (12:07):
when we go to these conferences? Typically the
people who stand behind theblack bars. And you know what I
mean by the black bars, theyroll them up in the conference
room, and then they have all thedrinks out, and they just want
to pour drinks. They're just andmost of the time they are not
trained cocktail bartenders.
They're the food and beveragepeople, so they don't realize,
and yours is a good example oflike, if they were to hand
somebody a drink who's inrecovery, who is counting days,
(12:29):
that is huge detriment, like ahuge problem, but they're not
trained in because, you know, ifyou go to a restaurant, you're
held accountable when thebartenders right, if they over
serve you or whatever. Sothere's that, there's the
miscommunication between themeeting planner, the conference
food and beverage person, andthen the bartender, and so we
need to improve thatcommunication. I was at an event
(12:51):
just last week where my friendwas the meeting planner, and he
said, we have mocktails for you.
And I'm like, thanks. And I wentup and I said, What are the
mocktails? And the waitresses orthe bartender is like, I don't
know, I guess it's this stuff inthis picture, and then even
ordering, it's awkward for somepeople to go up in order.
There's the pressure of peoplestanding around you, so having
(13:11):
like, a sign with some mocktailoptions, or having the drinks,
having options more than cokeand sprite, and having it right
there where somebody can pointto it, they don't have to make a
big deal out of it. They don'thave to say, Do you have
anything that doesn't havealcohol over the music? They can
just easily point to it, serveit in the same type cup everyone
else is getting it in. Don'tgive it to me in the kids cup.
(13:32):
Give it to me in adult glass,because just because there's no
alcohol and it doesn't mean I'mnot an adult. And so there's
things like that. You know,attendance is down at
conferences. We can get a lot ofthis stuff on podcasts and
YouTube videos, so the reasonwe're going to these events is
to feel included, to getconnection. But a lot of people
who are in recovery or or choosenot to drink in excess, choose
(13:57):
not to go to these conferences,because most of the time they
know, and I'm finding in everyindustry, it's the same. There's
so much happening around alcoholthat people aren't going so
before you even throw your eventor start to invite your your
people to your event, put inwording that allows people to
know that this is going to be aninclusive event, inclusive
space, and there'll be optionsfor other things to do and
(14:21):
drinks without alcohol, like letset it up so that people feel
included before they even booktheir ticket or plan their
travel to come. And then set itup so that people can get
connected. See, because a lot oftimes the way we use alcohol is
for the connection. So we needto have programming events,
things in the schedule thatallow people to connect, not
(14:45):
just using the alcohol, right?
Maybe a coffee meetups in themorning, or have some sort of a
an event where people can comeand laugh and do things
together, which they can theycan have alcohol there, but just
don't make that the main point.
So, so the book kind of runsthrough from before you. Plan it
all the way through. You knowwhat's at the bar? That's just
one part of of the whole thingabout being inclusive all the
(15:06):
way through the end of theevent, to make sure that
everyone who comes feels likethey're included and treated the
way they should be.
DeAnn Knighton (15:14):
That's great.
Well, we'll make sure that weput a link to information on the
book in the show notes. I wantto hear about the community.
What's going well for people?
What isn't we
Unknown (15:25):
have at sober life rocks for $9 a month, you can
join our community, whichbasically is just a connection
with other people within thecommunity, and a daily email
that goes out from my cofounder, Margie and I, and then
we've started a LinkedIn group.
One of the things we'retargeting is getting with
professionals, and we're tryingto combine the sober
professionals, or sober ishprofessionals, and the meetings
(15:46):
and conferences into one groupto say we need to fix this
issue. And so we have a LinkedIngroup that's sober life rocks
that anybody listening to thiswants to come over. That's where
all our conversation ishappening. That's where we're
sharing stories. We just had astory of one of our members who
they canceled last minute amocktail bar like this meeting
planner was just going to domocktails. It was an afternoon,
(16:08):
two, three o'clock. They weregoing to have mocktails. Thought
it would be fun, and the hotelcanceled it because they said,
If you don't have alcohol, wecan't provide a bartender. I was
at an event where they hadmocktails at two to three in the
afternoon. And I said, Whydidn't you have the mocktails
during a happy hour? And theysaid, We didn't want to mix it
with happy hour. We wanted it tostand on its own, that I
appreciate the mocktails, butthe whole time that the reason
(16:32):
we have them is during thesocial hour. That's like telling
vegetarians your meal will beserved at three, because we
don't want to mix you with themeat eaters at five. We're
moving forward. We're just ittakes, you know, one step
forward, two steps backwards.
And so we're really trying tobuild a community where we can
get everybody on the same pageto say, Do you see how this
doesn't really make sense? Doyou see how this could be
(16:55):
improved a little bit? Andthat's what our hope is. I
DeAnn Knighton (16:57):
like to think I surround myself with a lot of
people who are very forwardthinking and spend a lot of time
in these spaces, and I think,oh, yeah, everybody's on board.
We all get that this doesn'thave to mean something that it
doesn't. But I sometimes wonderif I have this bubble around me,
and so I want to know, like, howdo you feel about readiness for
people to be out and open abouttheir choice to not drink and to
(17:19):
not feel that it could limitthem professionally.
Unknown (17:23):
So my business partner has been sober for 19 years, and
so she's been through the stigmaside of things, where it was, I
think there was definitely atime where you kept your
sobriety quiet and it You didn'tbring it into work. And I love
how you started this where,like, professional meets
business like we're at adifferent day and age. Now, it's
(17:44):
a learning for society, right?
And I think everyone's startingto wake up to the fact that
alcohol is not good for you.
Alcohol is not your friend.
Alcohol. Now, if you choose todrink, that's your own choice.
There's nothing wrong with it,just like if you choose to smoke
or you choose to have that extrapiece of dessert, you're
educated around it, and we knowthat it's no longer a negative
(18:05):
thing to be sober. However,there are people who still I
mean, and they don't. I don'tthink people mean to do the peer
pressure like I just think it'sit's a societal habit. I try to
balance this when I'm talking topeople, those who are sober
versus those who aren't, when,when someone says, Do you want a
glass of wine? And you're like,No, thank you. And they're like,
(18:26):
Are you sure you don't want aglass of wine? And if you're
sober, you're like, oh my gosh,everyone's pushing it on me.
Well, they also would say, Doyou want a cookie? No, I don't
want a cookie. Are you sure youdon't want a cookie? They're
just trying to be nice, right?
And for people who maybe don'tidentify as in recovery, or, you
know, alcoholic, they might beable to see that more. But
(18:46):
people in recovery, it can betrigger, triggering, right? It
can feel like peer pressure. Andso some of it is we as as as
those who've chosen to be sober,need to do the inner work. Need
to, I mean, putting down thebottle was the first step right
now we have to, like, live withourselves and live with society
and and understand that's theirissue, not my issue. And then as
(19:07):
a society, I think just justlike you know, you meet people
who've had this issue or thatissue, this is just one more
thing that a group of people arechoosing not to drink. And the
more we the more we talk aboutit, like I shout from the
mountaintop since the day I saythat I got sober from Tiktok, I
started following someone onInstagram, and I started
(19:29):
following someone else. The nextthing you know, you know, I was
searching for it, and I found iton Tiktok. And I'll stand on the
mountaintop and yell it all daylong, and I feel like I'm called
to do that so that those thatdon't want to can still feel
safe in our community and ourpresence, because they don't
have to explain anymore, becauseI'm up here saying, Hey guys,
like, there's a good number ofpeople who don't want to drink,
(19:51):
so stop pushing the alcohol onus. You know, I
DeAnn Knighton (19:54):
really like what you said about it really depends
on where that person's at. Thereis still a level of personal
accountability. In your whateveryour journey is, you know,
someone who is really newlysober and really struggled with
substances probably should avoidcertain events and triggers
right? And they have to kind ofown that right, like you're kind
(20:14):
of a soft shell crab at thebeginning, and sometimes you
gotta hide a little bit then toknow that there is so much
support on the other side ofthis, I think is so great. And
then for other people, theydon't need that. They're
stopping alcohol for acompletely different reason, and
they don't need that. But eitherway, the option is there when
the time is right.
Unknown (20:34):
So for me, it was just like, it's such a shame that I'm
spending time and money andenergy to come here to spend
time with these people, and I'mleaving because of it or because
of the evening event. AndCouldn't we just change this so
that I could hang out? Becausethere are other people in here
too who don't love this and orare going back to their rooms
early and or aren't even comingto the conferences. And I've had
(20:56):
since we've started this, I'vehad some of the best networking
at the evening events now,because I know other people also
who are sober or sober ish, andso when it gets crazy and silly
at the bar, we sit outside ofthe bar and the little chairs in
the lobby and get a cup ofcoffee and have an amazing
conversation, right? And I'mstill, I'm laughing and having
fun, and I'm waking up in themorning and not regretting what
(21:18):
I did the night before.
DeAnn Knighton (21:19):
Yeah, you know, I had this experience at a work
dinner after I was sober, whereit progressed after dinner,
where there was excessivedrinking. I kind of went along
in the beginning, but then Ijust kind of cut out. But then
what happened the next day isthat there was all of this
weirdness, right? There had beena weird situation between one of
the women and the guys, and hehad to apologize to her, and
(21:40):
just think of how distractingall of that was from what we
were actually there toaccomplish. And
Unknown (21:47):
think of the networking that I mean, the reason we go is
to network, and one of ourtaglines is we're here to help
for memorable networking,because there's a lot of
networking after drink numbertwo or three that you don't even
remember the conversation. It'supsetting that we all go back to
our rooms because we're notbeing sober out loud. We're not
saying hey, I you know, andwe're not being included. When
(22:10):
in the book, I talk aboutspacing of your conference or
your events, like, don't put usin the kids room. Like, don't
put it like, just put somecouches in areas outside of the
party, the DJ or the whatever,so that we can sit outside and
have conversation, and when agood song comes on, I'm all
about 90s and 80s music. I'llrun into dance, but then I want
to come back out and be able totalk and be included in the
(22:33):
event, but not standing aroundthe bar like I just don't want
to stand around the bar anymore.
DeAnn Knighton (22:40):
What advice could you give to someone who is
thinking about sobriety or hasfound it and is trying to figure
out how to make it work forthem?
Unknown (22:50):
One of the ways I got sober was reading the book this
naked mind and Annie, and Annieis great, and I put out in the
universe. You know that I wantedto meet her, and I got the
opportunity to meet her and thenget certified in her coaching
program. And so I'm a certifiedcoach, not because I coach
people, but if I'm going tostand on stage and talk about
(23:11):
this or lead a group, I wantedto have a certification after my
name. And so I'm certified init. And one of the things that I
can say is, if you are, there'sa lot of people who are sober,
curious, sober, ish or newlysober, who still live in shame,
who still live in fear, whostill live in quiet, you know,
(23:32):
hidden thing, and that is notgoing to serve you when you are
looking for a life of sobrietyor your whatever your decision
is right. Shame is going to makeyou want to drink more. Shame is
going to want to make you hidemore. And there is nothing
shameful about not drinking.
There is nothing shameful aboutwherever you are on your journey
with alcohol. The thing is, isit's it's not just about you.
(23:55):
Alcohol is an addictivesubstance. Anybody who drinks
alcohol enough in the rightsituation, would become addicted
to alcohol. And so first, stopshaming yourself. Stop, you
know, feeling like you're theonly one you're not. There's so
many of us talking about it now,like, find the follow the people
that you follow that you you canrelate to and get connected.
(24:17):
Because when you start torecognize that this is your
superpower, like, this is yourlike, you've overcome something
that a lot of people probablylook at you and kind of look at
you like, maybe, like, how doyou do it? Not because they
they're shaming you, but becausethey're like, I sort of maybe
want that, like, live into it.
(24:38):
Like, live it up and and takecare of you. Because at the end
of day, it's just about you. Itdoesn't matter what it matter
what anybody else thinks. Itdoesn't matter what anybody else
does. It's all about you. Andget you know, get connected to a
community. My community is thisnaked mind. Listen to podcasts
like this great podcast,whatever you need to do to feed
you, because it is about you,and it's about changing whatever
aspect you've got in your life.
That you're not happy with.
DeAnn Knighton (25:01):
What I think is so cool, kind of like, what you
said about the superpower isthat if you build up some of
these muscles and skills, anddoing it with drinking is a
really great place to start,because it's hard. You know, can
be really hard, and you reallyhave to push yourself. And if
you do that, then it does becomea superpower. Because you're
like, oh, wow, I can't. I neverthought I would have been able
(25:22):
to see myself as someone thatdoesn't drink, and now I am that
person. So now, what else can Ido? What else am I am I capable
of? What other roadblocks abouthow I'm thinking about something
are standing in my way rightnow? And that
Unknown (25:36):
is literally the journey if you were to get
involved with any any goodperson in this area, but Annie
does this with this naked mind,is it's once you get through the
alcohol, then it's okay. Whywere you using the alcohol? And
what other things in your lifedo? Can you change? Right? What
other habits mean? There's moreaddictions than alcohol. You
know, I got on the other side ofit and realized I was addicted
(25:58):
to being content, like I didn'treally want to feel the highs
and the lows. Well, if you don'thave alcohol to numb that, then
I've got to learn how to dealwith the highs and the lows. And
we've used, many people haveused alcohol for the goods and
the bad and the celebration orthe depression or whatever that
we don't know how to do life.
Yeah.
DeAnn Knighton (26:16):
Well, thank you.
This was amazing. So nice tomeet you. Thanks for all your
great work,
Unknown (26:20):
we're trying to build an army so that conferences and
conventions and hotels will payattention. If you're in
LinkedIn, please come search outour group for silver Life Rocks.
If you're interested in joiningour community at $9 a month, you
can come to silver Life Rocks.
The book is on the inclusiveevent planner. You can download
it for free, if you want to readit for free, or if you want to
buy it. There's a link to buy iton Amazon. There are other
(26:41):
people around you that also,even at even at events that
aren't drinking, don't want todrink, and would love to hear
somebody say, I don't want todrink either. So you're not
alone. I.
Hi, welcome back to the show. I have always been
confused by the phrase, it'sjust business. It's not
personal. How can that be trueabout a place where we spend so
much of our time? My napkintheory is that this was a way to
regulate dissenters and errorsof top down leadership styles.
Whether or not that's true, it'snot realistic anymore to say
(00:22):
that work is not personal, andthe trends support this,
individuals are increasinglylooking for ways to align their
work with their values, takingto heart perhaps Erickson stages
of development, which reminds usthat midlife is the space where
we find either generativity orstagnation. Today, I welcome
Laura Nelson, founder of frontoffice rocks and most recently,
(00:45):
sober life rocks, which is acommunity dedicated to
supporting sober professionals.
She's also the author of therecently released book the
inclusive event planner, a quickstart guide to planning sober
friendly conferences. Laura, I'mso glad you're here. Awesome.
Unknown (01:02):
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
DeAnn Knighton (01:04):
We have so much to talk about, and I want to
jump right in with your story. Ilove hearing the ways in which
people have turned passion intowork. Maybe. Let's start with
your path to founding frontoffice rocks for
Unknown (01:20):
sure, yeah. So I married a guy out of undergrad
and have my degree in HumanResources and organizational
development, and he went todental school, graduated dental
school, and I joined him to runhis dental practice over the 20
plus years that I was runningthe practice, one of the things
that I thought was missing inour industry was good team
(01:40):
training, employee training, andso I started an online website
that teaches customer serviceand systems to dental teams. And
then from that, I've had theopportunity to start speaking
and traveling around and doingthe conferences. And that is now
primarily what I do, is I doonline team training and then go
from conference to conferenceand speak on it in front of live
(02:02):
audiences. So that's my day job.
DeAnn Knighton (02:04):
Got it so you're very comfortable being in front
of people advocating for thingsit sounds like. So how did that
move into this work that you'redoing now related to sobriety?
Unknown (02:15):
So I was married for 22 years, have two wonderful
children, speaking, traveling,building a business, and found
myself in my mid 40s, separated.
My ex husband and I went ourseparate ways for our reasons,
alone. My adult children now outof the house and all through my
career, I drank like it seemedlike everybody else did. I go to
(02:37):
the conferences. I do the sportsthing. I do, the moms thing, you
know, the whole thing, but endedup really starting to struggle
with two things. One, I the onlyreal relationship I had in my
life every day was alcohol,which was not necessarily a good
thing when you're depressed andalone and questioning my
relationship as I'm in this darkspace with what am I doing? What
(03:00):
is this right? Continue to growmy business and speak while I
was alone, but also recognizingthat I was leaning more and more
to alcohol that I ever had in mylife, and was getting in a
really kind of dark spot. Didn'tconsider myself an alcoholic.
You know, my dad always said,careful. We have alcoholism in
our family. And I thought, Well,okay, but I don't know anybody
(03:21):
who doesn't drink, so I guess wejust try to control it, you
know, like we get all done indifferent moments in our life
struggling. I'm just like, Idon't understand why I am doing
this, but I can't stop, andeverybody else seems to be doing
it. And then I went to aconference in 2019 where I was
had the opportunity to speak aday early, like I was supposed
(03:42):
to speak on Friday, but theyasked me to speak on Thursday
because something changed, and Ihadn't prepared to speak on
Thursday, so I drank more than Iwould have drank the night
before I speak, therefore notwanting to get on stage, because
I wasn't feeling 100% as I wouldif I'd known I was speaking the
next day. And that kind of hitme like a, you know, ton of
bricks of like, this is mycareer. Yet I can't just jump on
(04:04):
stage because of the drinkingthat I did the night before. And
then in January of 2020, I wentto a conference, woke up again
with a headache because, youknow, did the social thing that
we do at the hotel bars and allof that. And went to the gym
that morning, tried to makemyself feel better, and got on
the treadmill and tried to findsomething that was going to,
(04:27):
like, inspire me for the day.
And I came across the TED talkabout gray area drinking. And
that morning was the morningwhere I was like, I finally
could put a name to what myproblem was. I didn't consider
myself an alcoholic, whether youare or aren't, that's an
internal decision. But that day,I was like, Okay, this is my
problem. And I really relatedwith the TED Talk. And then
(04:50):
thankfully, that same day, I sawsomebody else speaking, and at
that time, she was sober, andshe mentioned from the stage,
she's somebody I looked up to inour career, somebody a couple.
Years ahead of me, and shementioned how her best friends
were Ben Jerry and Chardonnay,and she had to change that,
because she needed relationshipswith humans and not alcohol and
(05:10):
sugar. And because she told thatstory and she was sober at that
moment, I thought, if she can doit, I can do it. And I came home
that day, and that was the lasttime I drank, which was early
2020
DeAnn Knighton (05:20):
There's so much I can relate to in that. The
first thing I want to mention ishow cool it is that she was out
there speaking and that thatinspired you. I think that is so
important we have all of theseold understandings of what we
think sobriety looks like, orwhat people might think it looks
like if they haven't exploredthis. And it's so important to
(05:40):
see that it's not this darkthing, but actually is very
bright and vibrant. So I lovehearing that story, that you
were empowered by that speech. Ialso can relate to the
conference thing. I was in salesand marketing for most of my
career. I did multipleconferences and traveled well
into my late 30s, and drinkingwas at the center of all of it,
(06:02):
to the point now that I stilleven have kind of some weird
feelings in certain spaces, likehotel rooms, where I used to
spend a lot of time that like,remind me of kind of a dark
time. And I also can mention toyou that when I first got sober,
one of my first sort ofexperiences that led me to
starting this podcast, and thiswork had to do with the
(06:24):
convention that I attended as asober person, where it was like,
so eye opening to realize thisis like college level pressure
drinking happening here, andmaybe I never realized it before
because I was on the other sideof it, but being on this side is
that this isn't right. This isnot creating an environment
that's inclusive. Tell us aboutyour book. Maybe share a tip or
(06:49):
two of your favorites out ofthat as well. That'd be great.
Last
Unknown (06:52):
year, actually, a year ago, November, I was at a
conference where the idea ofsilver Life Rocks birthed
similar to you, where we were ata conference, my business
partner and I, and we thought wewere the only two sober people
there. We didn't know. And I wason a panel, a wellness panel,
and I asked how many people inhere consider themselves sober,
sober, ish or sober? Curious,and like 15 to 20% of the people
(07:15):
raised their hand. But the issuewas, there was no good options
for non alcoholic drinks. Theevent planner only had beer and
wine. Most of almost everybodydidn't know about each other. So
many times, when you go to aconference like that with the
peer pressure, it's alreadyawkward. Anyway, it's already
hard. Some people it'striggering, but also you feel
very alone, and that's reallywhere we started sober life
(07:38):
rocks is to build a communityand connection, where we don't
feel alone at these events, amember in our community that was
on our podcast, you talkedabout, if you know there's just
one other sober person in theroom with you, you're not alone.
So many people are sober insilence. I feel like you know,
in our professional world, we'reso proud of all the things that
we do, the accomplishments, theaccolades, but we don't
(07:59):
celebrate and honor oursobriety, and that's one of the
biggest accomplishments we have.
I mean, that's one of mysuperpowers, is like I overcame
the peer pressure of society andas a norm, to be on the side of
not drinking and not that. It's,you know, it's not for
everybody, but for me, it'sgreat, and I want to celebrate
it. I want to, I want it to bepart of my story. So that's
(08:20):
where it kind of started a yearago, and then we have started to
really focus in on conferences,events, meeting planning.
Because in your personal life,you can choose where you go to,
what restaurants you go to, whatbars you go to, who you hang out
with. You have the option. Butin your professional life, many
times you don't, you can'tchoose, as a salesperson, which
(08:42):
sales dinners you're going to goto, or which after hours events
you're going to go to, whichconferences you're going to go
to. We roll up the black bar atthe end of the night and
everyone stands around anddrinks. And that's the way we
connect, and that's the mainthing we do. We're just standing
around the bar drinking. And soI really wanted to make an
impact in this part of ourindustry or in our world,
(09:05):
because if we have more peoplewho are raising their hands
saying, I don't want to drink,even if you aren't sober, but
you just don't want to drink atindustry events, like you don't
want to drink at work, becauseit's many good reasons
potentially not to it. We're notdoing it. We're faking it by
putting a lime in our drink andhiding that we're not drinking
because we don't want to dealwith the peer pressure. So we
(09:27):
have more people who would beokay with just saying they're
sober they don't want to drink,and then have better options at
these conferences, so that wecan feel more included, and they
can have more evening eventsthat's not just focused around
the alcohol, more people wouldfeel included and be part of it.
And so that's really where thebook idea came from. Because now
it's not just building thecommunity like you're doing and
(09:49):
I'm doing and people talkingabout it, but now we have to
actually change this part of theindustry. We have to really
change the meeting spaces andthe convention spaces, which is
what I talk about. Out and I'mtackling in the book,
DeAnn Knighton (10:01):
is the audience for the book, like vendors at
these events, who's it targetedfor?
Unknown (10:07):
It's actually, it's targeted for, you know, meeting
planners. HR, but I mean, we'recoming into holiday season right
now, and there's after ourevents for all of your teams and
stuff. So anybody, basically,who is hosting an event that
wants to have the people comingto you included. And I'm
learning so much of this lastyear, like a lot of people are
like, Hey, Laura, you're comingto our thing. We made mocktails
(10:31):
for you, which I superappreciate. But usually the
mocktails are some sticky sweet,you know, lemonade thing in a
picture over by the kids table,and they're putting a sign that
says cocktails. And for me, it'slike, I can still have an adult
beverage. It doesn't need tohave alcohol in it. That's the
only difference. The meetingplanners are trying to get
there, but we're not quitethere, and if the event still
(10:53):
just centers around drinking,that is one of the major issues.
People don't feel included. Ifwe're just doing the alcohol,
like we can be doing otherthings. And so it's really to
anybody who hosts events from 10to, you know, 10,000 really
starting to think, because a lotof people who aren't on the
other side don't know what it'slike to go to these events when
(11:16):
they are still part of the, youknow, the regular society and
drinking. I think that's
DeAnn Knighton (11:21):
really smart.
And I think you're, you're rightabout it's, it's great to be
inclusive in practice, I sharedan experience on this podcast
about a time that I tried a nonalcoholic wine tasting
experience with other people atthe table who were drinking, and
the server got the glassesconfused, and it was this whole
thing. Now I'm a person whoidentifies as in recovery from
substance use disorder, sohaving a drink to me feels like
(11:44):
a big deal. It would have beenupsetting to me and to my
experience. And so there's thiselement of Yes, be inclusive.
Yes. It can feel good. Also, becareful thinking of that. What
are some ways for it to not feellike an afterthought, and to not
necessarily call attention inthe wrong way. What does a good
(12:04):
experience look like
Unknown (12:07):
when we go to these conferences? Typically the
people who stand behind theblack bars. And you know what I
mean by the black bars, theyroll them up in the conference
room, and then they have all thedrinks out, and they just want
to pour drinks. They're just andmost of the time they are not
trained cocktail bartenders.
They're the food and beveragepeople, so they don't realize,
and yours is a good example oflike, if they were to hand
somebody a drink who's inrecovery, who is counting days,
(12:29):
that is huge detriment, like ahuge problem, but they're not
trained in because, you know, ifyou go to a restaurant, you're
held accountable when thebartenders right, if they over
serve you or whatever. Sothere's that, there's the
miscommunication between themeeting planner, the conference
food and beverage person, andthen the bartender, and so we
need to improve thatcommunication. I was at an event
(12:51):
just last week where my friendwas the meeting planner, and he
said, we have mocktails for you.
And I'm like, thanks. And I wentup and I said, What are the
mocktails? And the waitresses orthe bartender is like, I don't
know, I guess it's this stuff inthis picture, and then even
ordering, it's awkward for somepeople to go up in order.
There's the pressure of peoplestanding around you, so having
(13:11):
like, a sign with some mocktailoptions, or having the drinks,
having options more than cokeand sprite, and having it right
there where somebody can pointto it, they don't have to make a
big deal out of it. They don'thave to say, Do you have
anything that doesn't havealcohol over the music? They can
just easily point to it, serveit in the same type cup everyone
else is getting it in. Don'tgive it to me in the kids cup.
(13:32):
Give it to me in adult glass,because just because there's no
alcohol and it doesn't mean I'mnot an adult. And so there's
things like that. You know,attendance is down at
conferences. We can get a lot ofthis stuff on podcasts and
YouTube videos, so the reasonwe're going to these events is
to feel included, to getconnection. But a lot of people
who are in recovery or or choosenot to drink in excess, choose
(13:57):
not to go to these conferences,because most of the time they
know, and I'm finding in everyindustry, it's the same. There's
so much happening around alcoholthat people aren't going so
before you even throw your eventor start to invite your your
people to your event, put inwording that allows people to
know that this is going to be aninclusive event, inclusive
space, and there'll be optionsfor other things to do and
(14:21):
drinks without alcohol, like letset it up so that people feel
included before they even booktheir ticket or plan their
travel to come. And then set itup so that people can get
connected. See, because a lot oftimes the way we use alcohol is
for the connection. So we needto have programming events,
things in the schedule thatallow people to connect, not
(14:45):
just using the alcohol, right?
Maybe a coffee meetups in themorning, or have some sort of a
an event where people can comeand laugh and do things
together, which they can theycan have alcohol there, but just
don't make that the main point.
So, so the book kind of runsthrough from before you. Plan it
all the way through. You knowwhat's at the bar? That's just
one part of of the whole thingabout being inclusive all the
(15:06):
way through the end of theevent, to make sure that
everyone who comes feels likethey're included and treated the
way they should be.
DeAnn Knighton (15:14):
That's great.
Well, we'll make sure that weput a link to information on the
book in the show notes. I wantto hear about the community.
What's going well for people?
What isn't we
Unknown (15:25):
have at sober life rocks for $9 a month, you can
join our community, whichbasically is just a connection
with other people within thecommunity, and a daily email
that goes out from my cofounder, Margie and I, and then
we've started a LinkedIn group.
One of the things we'retargeting is getting with
professionals, and we're tryingto combine the sober
professionals, or sober ishprofessionals, and the meetings
(15:46):
and conferences into one groupto say we need to fix this
issue. And so we have a LinkedIngroup that's sober life rocks
that anybody listening to thiswants to come over. That's where
all our conversation ishappening. That's where we're
sharing stories. We just had astory of one of our members who
they canceled last minute amocktail bar like this meeting
planner was just going to domocktails. It was an afternoon,
(16:08):
two, three o'clock. They weregoing to have mocktails. Thought
it would be fun, and the hotelcanceled it because they said,
If you don't have alcohol, wecan't provide a bartender. I was
at an event where they hadmocktails at two to three in the
afternoon. And I said, Whydidn't you have the mocktails
during a happy hour? And theysaid, We didn't want to mix it
with happy hour. We wanted it tostand on its own, that I
appreciate the mocktails, butthe whole time that the reason
(16:32):
we have them is during thesocial hour. That's like telling
vegetarians your meal will beserved at three, because we
don't want to mix you with themeat eaters at five. We're
moving forward. We're just ittakes, you know, one step
forward, two steps backwards.
And so we're really trying tobuild a community where we can
get everybody on the same pageto say, Do you see how this
doesn't really make sense? Doyou see how this could be
(16:55):
improved a little bit? Andthat's what our hope is. I
DeAnn Knighton (16:57):
like to think I surround myself with a lot of
people who are very forwardthinking and spend a lot of time
in these spaces, and I think,oh, yeah, everybody's on board.
We all get that this doesn'thave to mean something that it
doesn't. But I sometimes wonderif I have this bubble around me,
and so I want to know, like, howdo you feel about readiness for
people to be out and open abouttheir choice to not drink and to
(17:19):
not feel that it could limitthem professionally.
Unknown (17:23):
So my business partner has been sober for 19 years, and
so she's been through the stigmaside of things, where it was, I
think there was definitely atime where you kept your
sobriety quiet and it You didn'tbring it into work. And I love
how you started this where,like, professional meets
business like we're at adifferent day and age. Now, it's
(17:44):
a learning for society, right?
And I think everyone's startingto wake up to the fact that
alcohol is not good for you.
Alcohol is not your friend.
Alcohol. Now, if you choose todrink, that's your own choice.
There's nothing wrong with it,just like if you choose to smoke
or you choose to have that extrapiece of dessert, you're
educated around it, and we knowthat it's no longer a negative
(18:05):
thing to be sober. However,there are people who still I
mean, and they don't. I don'tthink people mean to do the peer
pressure like I just think it'sit's a societal habit. I try to
balance this when I'm talking topeople, those who are sober
versus those who aren't, when,when someone says, Do you want a
glass of wine? And you're like,No, thank you. And they're like,
(18:26):
Are you sure you don't want aglass of wine? And if you're
sober, you're like, oh my gosh,everyone's pushing it on me.
Well, they also would say, Doyou want a cookie? No, I don't
want a cookie. Are you sure youdon't want a cookie? They're
just trying to be nice, right?
And for people who maybe don'tidentify as in recovery, or, you
know, alcoholic, they might beable to see that more. But
(18:46):
people in recovery, it can betrigger, triggering, right? It
can feel like peer pressure. Andso some of it is we as as as
those who've chosen to be sober,need to do the inner work. Need
to, I mean, putting down thebottle was the first step right
now we have to, like, live withourselves and live with society
and and understand that's theirissue, not my issue. And then as
(19:07):
a society, I think just justlike you know, you meet people
who've had this issue or thatissue, this is just one more
thing that a group of people arechoosing not to drink. And the
more we the more we talk aboutit, like I shout from the
mountaintop since the day I saythat I got sober from Tiktok, I
started following someone onInstagram, and I started
(19:29):
following someone else. The nextthing you know, you know, I was
searching for it, and I found iton Tiktok. And I'll stand on the
mountaintop and yell it all daylong, and I feel like I'm called
to do that so that those thatdon't want to can still feel
safe in our community and ourpresence, because they don't
have to explain anymore, becauseI'm up here saying, Hey guys,
like, there's a good number ofpeople who don't want to drink,
(19:51):
so stop pushing the alcohol onus. You know, I
DeAnn Knighton (19:54):
really like what you said about it really depends
on where that person's at. Thereis still a level of personal
accountability. In your whateveryour journey is, you know,
someone who is really newlysober and really struggled with
substances probably should avoidcertain events and triggers
right? And they have to kind ofown that right, like you're kind
(20:14):
of a soft shell crab at thebeginning, and sometimes you
gotta hide a little bit then toknow that there is so much
support on the other side ofthis, I think is so great. And
then for other people, theydon't need that. They're
stopping alcohol for acompletely different reason, and
they don't need that. But eitherway, the option is there when
the time is right.
Unknown (20:34):
So for me, it was just like, it's such a shame that I'm
spending time and money andenergy to come here to spend
time with these people, and I'mleaving because of it or because
of the evening event. AndCouldn't we just change this so
that I could hang out? Becausethere are other people in here
too who don't love this and orare going back to their rooms
early and or aren't even comingto the conferences. And I've had
(20:56):
since we've started this, I'vehad some of the best networking
at the evening events now,because I know other people also
who are sober or sober ish, andso when it gets crazy and silly
at the bar, we sit outside ofthe bar and the little chairs in
the lobby and get a cup ofcoffee and have an amazing
conversation, right? And I'mstill, I'm laughing and having
fun, and I'm waking up in themorning and not regretting what
(21:18):
I did the night before.
DeAnn Knighton (21:19):
Yeah, you know, I had this experience at a work
dinner after I was sober, whereit progressed after dinner,
where there was excessivedrinking. I kind of went along
in the beginning, but then Ijust kind of cut out. But then
what happened the next day isthat there was all of this
weirdness, right? There had beena weird situation between one of
the women and the guys, and hehad to apologize to her, and
(21:40):
just think of how distractingall of that was from what we
were actually there toaccomplish. And
Unknown (21:47):
think of the networking that I mean, the reason we go is
to network, and one of ourtaglines is we're here to help
for memorable networking,because there's a lot of
networking after drink numbertwo or three that you don't even
remember the conversation. It'supsetting that we all go back to
our rooms because we're notbeing sober out loud. We're not
saying hey, I you know, andwe're not being included. When
(22:10):
in the book, I talk aboutspacing of your conference or
your events, like, don't put usin the kids room. Like, don't
put it like, just put somecouches in areas outside of the
party, the DJ or the whatever,so that we can sit outside and
have conversation, and when agood song comes on, I'm all
about 90s and 80s music. I'llrun into dance, but then I want
to come back out and be able totalk and be included in the
(22:33):
event, but not standing aroundthe bar like I just don't want
to stand around the bar anymore.
DeAnn Knighton (22:40):
What advice could you give to someone who is
thinking about sobriety or hasfound it and is trying to figure
out how to make it work forthem?
Unknown (22:50):
One of the ways I got sober was reading the book this
naked mind and Annie, and Annieis great, and I put out in the
universe. You know that I wantedto meet her, and I got the
opportunity to meet her and thenget certified in her coaching
program. And so I'm a certifiedcoach, not because I coach
people, but if I'm going tostand on stage and talk about
(23:11):
this or lead a group, I wantedto have a certification after my
name. And so I'm certified init. And one of the things that I
can say is, if you are, there'sa lot of people who are sober,
curious, sober, ish or newlysober, who still live in shame,
who still live in fear, whostill live in quiet, you know,
(23:32):
hidden thing, and that is notgoing to serve you when you are
looking for a life of sobrietyor your whatever your decision
is right. Shame is going to makeyou want to drink more. Shame is
going to want to make you hidemore. And there is nothing
shameful about not drinking.
There is nothing shameful aboutwherever you are on your journey
with alcohol. The thing is, isit's it's not just about you.
(23:55):
Alcohol is an addictivesubstance. Anybody who drinks
alcohol enough in the rightsituation, would become addicted
to alcohol. And so first, stopshaming yourself. Stop, you
know, feeling like you're theonly one you're not. There's so
many of us talking about it now,like, find the follow the people
that you follow that you you canrelate to and get connected.
(24:17):
Because when you start torecognize that this is your
superpower, like, this is yourlike, you've overcome something
that a lot of people probablylook at you and kind of look at
you like, maybe, like, how doyou do it? Not because they
they're shaming you, but becausethey're like, I sort of maybe
want that, like, live into it.
(24:38):
Like, live it up and and takecare of you. Because at the end
of day, it's just about you. Itdoesn't matter what it matter
what anybody else thinks. Itdoesn't matter what anybody else
does. It's all about you. Andget you know, get connected to a
community. My community is thisnaked mind. Listen to podcasts
like this great podcast,whatever you need to do to feed
you, because it is about you,and it's about changing whatever
aspect you've got in your life.
That you're not happy with.
DeAnn Knighton (25:01):
What I think is so cool, kind of like, what you
said about the superpower isthat if you build up some of
these muscles and skills, anddoing it with drinking is a
really great place to start,because it's hard. You know, can
be really hard, and you reallyhave to push yourself. And if
you do that, then it does becomea superpower. Because you're
like, oh, wow, I can't. I neverthought I would have been able
(25:22):
to see myself as someone thatdoesn't drink, and now I am that
person. So now, what else can Ido? What else am I am I capable
of? What other roadblocks abouthow I'm thinking about something
are standing in my way rightnow? And that
Unknown (25:36):
is literally the journey if you were to get
involved with any any goodperson in this area, but Annie
does this with this naked mind,is it's once you get through the
alcohol, then it's okay. Whywere you using the alcohol? And
what other things in your lifedo? Can you change? Right? What
other habits mean? There's moreaddictions than alcohol. You
know, I got on the other side ofit and realized I was addicted
(25:58):
to being content, like I didn'treally want to feel the highs
and the lows. Well, if you don'thave alcohol to numb that, then
I've got to learn how to dealwith the highs and the lows. And
we've used, many people haveused alcohol for the goods and
the bad and the celebration orthe depression or whatever that
we don't know how to do life.
Yeah.
DeAnn Knighton (26:16):
Well, thank you.
This was amazing. So nice tomeet you. Thanks for all your
great work,
Unknown (26:20):
we're trying to build an army so that conferences and
conventions and hotels will payattention. If you're in
LinkedIn, please come search outour group for silver Life Rocks.
If you're interested in joiningour community at $9 a month, you
can come to silver Life Rocks.
The book is on the inclusiveevent planner. You can download
it for free, if you want to readit for free, or if you want to
buy it. There's a link to buy iton Amazon. There are other
(26:41):
people around you that also,even at even at events that
aren't drinking, don't want todrink, and would love to hear
somebody say, I don't want todrink either. So you're not
alone. I.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.