Who said 'Once an athlete, always an entrepreneur'? No one? Well, that’s about to change with our podcast guest today! We sat down with Khalil El-Amin, former University of Cincinnati football player, who as a senior played in the Orange Bowl. He is now the marketing genius behind Nichefire, a tech start-up that’s disrupting the data game.
With his keen eye for detail and a relentless entrepreneurial spirit, Khalil shared some insightful tips on how to turn a side hustle into a full-blown profitable business. From bootstrapping with partners who have coding skills to hustling in the gig economy, Khalil has navigated the choppy waters of entrepreneurship with grit and persistence.
Let's jog down memory lane as we relive the formidable years of Khalil's life on the UC football field. Sharing some cherished moments from his junior year, Khalil sheds light on the undeniable bond between the city and its undying love for Bearcats football. We also delved into the stories of UC alumni like Jason Kelce, celebrating their success and the indomitable UC spirit.
But it wasn't all gridiron glory. Khalil opened up about his journey , the challenges he faced growing up, and how being amidst a group of friends, all with the same goal to win, propelled him to scale new heights. His message is clear: surround yourself with success, and it will rub off on you. From building a successful tech team to developing a winning strategy, Khalil shares insider tips on what it takes to make it in the tech world. So, tune in, sit back and get ready for a conversation that blends sports, success, and start-ups like never before.
About Nichefire
Nichefire is an AI-powered marketing analytics company. We believe that better consumer and competitive insights mean better decisions. Nichefire’s Artificial Intelligence collects millions of data-points on brands’ digital marketing strategies, categorizes it, and delivers action plans and recommendations to help optimize your marketing strategies.
What Now?
As you're inspired to embark on your own side hustle journey after listening to this episode, you might wonder where to start or how to make your vision a reality. That's where our trusted partner, Reversed Out Creative comes in.
Specializing in strategic branding and digital marketing, Reversed Out Creative is an advertising agency dedicated to helping you turn your side hustle into your main hustle. With a team of experienced professionals and a track record of helping clients achieve their dreams, they are ready to assist you in reaching your goals.
To find out more about how they can elevate your side hustle, visit www.reversedout.com today and start your journey towards success. Our blog is also full of great information that we work hard on to provide you with a leg up on the competition. We also recently launched our YouTube Channel, Marketing Pro Trends, which summarizes all of our blog posts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to Side Hustle City and thanks for
joining us.
Our goal is to help you connectto real people who found
success turning their sidehustle into a main hustle, and
we hope you can too.
I'm Adam Kaler.
I'm joined by Kyle Stevie, myco-host.
Let's get started, all right?
(00:31):
Welcome back, everybody to theSide Hustle City podcast Today's
special guest, khalil Alameen.
How are you doing, sir?
What's going on, man?
It's going so.
Former UC player turned techbro, or whatever you want to say
.
So Khalil was in our space herefor a while with his
(00:52):
co-founders and doing a companycalled Nitchfire which analyzes
social chatter, I guess forbrands.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
High level.
Yeah, high level, yeah, at ahigh level.
What we do is we enablebusinesses to conduct social
intelligence with the use of AI,so we're helping businesses
understand the insights behindthe data online, and it's not
just social media, it's news andmedia blogs, any type of
(01:24):
conversation happening online.
We can pretty much capture it,run through our models and give
you insights behind what'shappening.
Yeah, our biggest thing rightnow is our trendfire platform is
identifying trends andpredicting them six to 12 months
into the future.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, that's wild too , with all the factors that go
on with the economy and with allthis stuff that's happening.
You guys can still kind of takea look at that.
I see that I feel like thatwould have way more than just
significance for a brand.
That seems like something thatthe government would want to use
like a forecasting system aspart of all this other stuff
(02:00):
that they do.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Foresight is like a huge buzzword right now across
bitcodes.
Everyone wants to understandwhat the impact of decisions are
before they make them.
When it comes to trends,average person probably think
about hey, it's a trend onTikTok.
Or hey, this color is a trendor this certain type of for our
(02:23):
80s baby like a Tamagotchi right.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Oh yeah, trendy.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But what we're actually looking at are cultural
trends or those behaviors thatmake up a community online, so
essentially allowing businessesto be a fly on the room in these
rooms that they're not in.
So how do you better connect orshow up where your customers
want to be at and position yourbrand in that way?
It's aiding storytelling, it'saiding communications, it's
(02:51):
aiding sales strategy.
So it can get prettyinteresting what you can do with
the data from it.
But you're 100% right, like Imean something that everyone is
super into because of theforesight behind it.
Oh yeah, fortuneteller.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Oh yeah, that's what everybody wants to be.
They want to be ahead of theircompetitors somehow and figure
out and you guys do a lot ofstuff with finance too.
Do you have a lot of financeclients?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
it sounds like Our first client was US Bank.
We've been working with themfor the past like five years, a
couple other smaller banks andinvestment banks and things like
that, and then we also workwith Walmart.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh, wow.
Well, that's a big one.
Yeah, I think if you ever lookat a map of the United States
and who the biggest employer isin the States like 30 states the
number one employer is Walmart.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, it's wild.
No, it's huge.
It's been a great experienceworking with Walmart.
We learned a lot.
Especially when you're smalllike us, I mean you can get into
these big organizations and aslong as you do good work and
good business acumen, you canlearn a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh yeah, well, we don't have enough startup people
, and it's crazy because I comefrom the startup world and it's
like you'd think I'd have morestartup people on the show.
But it's always like realestate investors and just random
stuff, like I like to mix it upa little bit.
But it's good to have anotherstartup person on the show to
talk about the difficulties,because people think they see
(04:13):
these success stories, they seethese companies that are selling
for a billion dollars orraising $200 million in their A
round and everybody's like, wow,that's amazing, oh, this
person's killing it.
But you just don't hear a lotabout how hard it is to get to
that point and the struggle thatyou have for years to even get
(04:36):
any traction with a company likea US bank or a Walmart.
That's some work just to get tothat point.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It's.
You know, I equated to reallyjust what I say you burn your
ships or whatever.
It was that type of mentality,man, I feel like I jumped in
very later in life.
In my previous life, obviouslyyou was talking about it I was a
(05:04):
football player, tried to livethat dream for as long as I can.
I played up until I was about26 years old.
So, jumping into business, Imean I was in my 30s when I
jumped into business withMichael and Steve and my
co-founders.
People look at you like you'recrazy, like dude, what are you
doing?
Like how you pay yourself, howyou do this, how you do that,
(05:27):
and it was, you know, it was oneof those things where you had
to fall in love with the dreamand believe in it more than
anyone, because nobody's goingto believe in it that's right
Except you.
So shout out to my co-foundersman, I love those guys.
We've been sticking together.
We've been through our ups anddowns.
It's tough.
We bootstrapped up until thisyear.
(05:48):
Really, we took in some friendsand family money early, but
it's been bootstrapping, so thehustle was real.
Had to figure out how to feed,in my situation, a family.
You know I had children, dreams, goals, aspirations.
It's funny, I was just talkingto my daughters on our way over
(06:08):
to the pot, told her, you know,because we stopped and get
coffee and we usually do thiswhen she's with me in the summer
We'll get coffee in the morning.
Our mornings are different thanmost people's mornings, right,
and she can compare and contrastto, because you know she spends
mornings with her moms and thenmornings with me and she's like
well, it's super chill in themorning here.
(06:30):
Like you go get coffee, we chillout, we read, and then it's
like, you know, around 10, 30,11 o'clock.
That's when you get busy.
Like I want to do that when Igrow up and I was like it took a
long time for us to get here,like you got to sacrifice
everything to get here.
You sacrifice relationships,friendships, fun, finances.
(06:54):
Yeah, you know, maybe Icouldn't buy the shoes that I
wanted or go on the vacationthat I wanted because I was
grinding and I had to figure outhow to grind our way through it
.
So you're 100 percent right,like it takes a lot of oh just
fortitude and grit.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, and you got to want it Right, but I mean I
think you're, I mean obviously,I mean you Played at one of the
highest levels you could play atin football and for the
university Cincinnati, and thatwas Big East, right when you
were playing.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, we were we, we Two.
What was he?
Two, three time big Eastchampions.
When I was there, which iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, was that Tony Pike you were playing with too.
Oh man, so was he on his wayout.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
No, no no, tony, me and Tony came in together.
So Tony Gray shirted it, though, so he got an extra year of
eligibility, but it was.
It was like my.
My junior year was been mocked.
Yeah, that senior year it was.
Grutsa Grutsa got hurt, yeah.
Then it was Tony.
(07:55):
Tony broke his arm, then it wasChas Anderson and Zach Coleris.
We had like six quartersColeris.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
He's killing it still , and I swear like he's like
winning championships and it'slike people were like well,
that's Canada.
I'm like no, you know the dudesa gamer.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
He's a baller, oh yeah.
And then Tony Sokru back around, and then that next year that's
when Tony had that crazy yearlike the Pitt game and you see,
that was our first undefeatedseason.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Was that the Pittsburgh game?
Yeah, when they played, thatwas all.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
that was the greatest day I was gone by then, but
like that year was like magical.
I went down to the sugar bowlwith those guys and so I was
like that.
I still felt like I was on theteam that year, but my scenes,
my season was the orange ballseason.
Yeah, so I mean I like to thinkthat we kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Was that the new one, that was the New Orleans one
right.
Was that New Orleans Orange?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
New Orleans Orange Bowl was Miami Miami.
And then the sugar bowl was NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, that's the one.
I think I wanted to was thesugar bowl.
It's Florida, right.
Yeah, was that the Florida one?
Yeah, that was the Indian.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You ran to Tebow and that was that team was stacked.
We had a what's the corner name?
Joe Hayden, yep, tim Tebow,aaron Hernandez, carlos Dunn.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Oh, was Dunn lap on that team, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, Pound T brothers.
Oh, my goodness.
I mean they had like 15, 18,all Americans.
Yeah, All those guys went firstround.
I mean some of those are ProBowlers.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Pound T's a Pro Bowler right Pound T Pro Bowler.
Dunn lap.
Dunn lap, I don't know if Dunnlap was ever a Pro Bowler, but
Hayden, I mean, look at hiscareer, Hayden.
Still.
I don't know if he's stillplaying or not, Right?
No, yeah, he might be a freeagent this year.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
He still can play.
Yeah, that's the thing, andlike we're all like the same age
, you know like 36, late 30s, soyou know he's keeping himself
together.
But yeah, I mean that team inFlorida was stacked.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I know that we didn't have a chance, even though I
went down or enacted like we did, I was running my mouth like we
did, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I think, I think, and it's sad that we got to go
through that every so often withthis, with the school.
Like you, said I think that'sgoing to the Big 12 and keep
that momentum going.
You know new coaching staff andall that they got to get shot
at, kind of getting that staplein there.
But you can't deny.
You see, when you go back, youknow was that I don't know how
(10:19):
many years ago when I played.
Then you got guys comingthrough like sauce gardener
where it's just like the bestthat you ever seen.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
You got the best center in football right now.
You got the best tight end infootball and you got arguably
the best corner in football.
It's funny.
I think you got the best centerin football.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It's the same school.
Jason didn't even play center.
When I was there, he was ourguard, which is wild.
Yeah, it was like his firstyear starting and we had to get
him fat and get him over it.
There's like a linebacker.
When he first came to walk onlinebacker with this big thing
wrapped around his head and likeyeah, so yeah, all from the
same school all from the sameschool and the crazy thing is is
the coaches keep leaving andthey just keep reloading.
(10:56):
That's what I'm saying.
You can't.
It's the program Undeniably Backto that mentality.
You talked about grit andentrepreneurship and everything
Like.
That's the DNA of these UC guys.
You're not gonna.
It don't matter who comes andcoach Like we'd love to have
someone that stays for a millionyears like-.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Nick Saban or somebody.
Yeah, We'd love that.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
But if that doesn't happen, it don't matter, because
dogs are gonna come out of this.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
The city's gonna get behind it.
The people here like we're inone of the best places in the
country for ice cream football.
I mean you could top fiveprobably you know, and I mean
even I remember when we wereyounger.
I remember Kirk Herbshaw hadthat challenge and I think it
was Colrain.
Colrain played the Texas.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No, because the team had a TV show.
Those guys had a TV show.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Oh, that's right, I remember that.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And they was at and the whole country was like oh,
this team is da-da-da-da.
And they came up here and gotspanked that's right by the team
from the TV show.
Got spanked by either Molar orColrain.
I think it was Colrain.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
One of those guys dumped them.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It was a year after Goody and them got to UC.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Oh so.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Coach Combs was still coaching there, but he spent a
year there after Goody and themgot here.
Then Coach Combs came.
It's good to have Coach Combshere in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I love Coach Combs man.
Yeah, it's good to have himhere.
He belongs here.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Man, his energy is just everything.
It's crazy, just everything.
But man, yeah, man, this is aspecial place for football and
you know, I know we're supposedto be talking about business,
but yeah, that does but it leadsinto it Because we're talking
about a mentality.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We're talking about a college that can lose a coach
and all these coaches going tobecome great.
I mean it's Dantonio.
Look at Dantonio.
He did Michigan State.
I mean, he did a great job inMichigan State.
I mean Brian Kelly.
I mean you go to Notre Dame andnow you're at LSU.
It's just like the list goes on.
(12:47):
And I'm sure Fickle's going tobe great at Wisconsin.
It was just Tuberville.
Years were tough.
That was a weird error, buthe's in Congress now.
He's doing his thing in Congress, whatever.
But you have players that havebecome great.
I mean you could probably sayZach Kolaris, but when he
finishes his football careerhe's going to go down as one of
(13:08):
the greatest CFL playersProbably I mean in history
probably.
I mean he's bringing it andhe's winning championships.
He put the team on his back,like that video, and he put the
team on his back, but he did.
He's put his team on his back.
But you've got a mentality there, and not just with UC.
I mean you've got a mentalityin at that level, the amount of
(13:31):
work that you have to do.
And people see these playersand they're just looking at oh,
I can do that.
No, you can't.
Like you can do that, like it'sjust it's not going to happen.
And it's not just thephysicality of it, it's not just
you know the being blessed bybeing a big guy like you.
You said before this you wereeight years old or whatever,
(13:52):
playing with 12 year oldsbecause they wouldn't let you
play with the year.
Well, that's a blessing, youknow, in a way, but not
everybody has that.
But then on top of that, youhave to have the mental
fortitude, you have to have thework ethic, and sometimes that
comes with playing the sport.
Like, sometimes you learn thatbecause some of these kids going
(14:14):
in or they may not have thework ethic, but coach is going
to make you get up early, runsprints, do this, do that.
Make sure you're working out,make sure you're eating right.
Yeah, things that you probablydidn't grow up with.
You know, and it's that itchanges your mindset and then
you could be successful to thethings like a startup.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Mm.
Hmm, it really transferred overfor me when, when I got my
first job outside of footballand it was.
It was interesting because,like all, the leadership would
always use me as an example andto a certain extent I kind of
(14:57):
got annoyed from it because itwas always like, oh well, you
play football, so you know howto do this, and I'm like what,
what does that have to do withanything you're talking about?
But what I come to find out isthat a lot of people, when they
were 18, didn't get forced towake up at four am in the winter
to go run in the snow with yourteammates.
(15:18):
A lot of people don'tunderstand the dedication that
you have to put towardssomething to be good at it, not
alone Great, just to be good atsomething.
So you know, and a lot of theroles that I started off in my
professional career were salesroles.
So the sales, sales managers,love athletes because sales is
(15:40):
athletic, is the most athleticbusiness function that you have,
like that you can draw thatline.
So the sales managers wouldalways be like, khalil, this and
I, you know.
Starting off I'd be like, yeah,that's cool.
But then I started like this iskind of corny man, like I don't
even want to be that example,like why do everyone think?
(16:01):
But it was like, oh well, youknow how to wake up and make a.
You know have your list readyto call out in the morning.
You know how to do.
These are things that you doautomatically because you're
used to being regimen.
A lot of people don't gothrough that in college.
Some people are just kind ofgetting through college or, you
know, having other things thatthey want to do.
So that constant strivingtowards something greater is, I
(16:26):
think, the catalyst like thatthey were looking for.
Like OK, well, we want to wewant that.
Yeah, you want to bottle that upand show other people this is
the way you hand to yourbusiness when you come in and
really quick, like quicklyidentifying, like like off, and
it's like a personal thing forme, like I could quickly
identify, like when I was doneplaying ball, if I didn't like
(16:48):
not having a routine aroundthings.
You just feel out of whack.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Like if you don't get up and do things the same way
and you feel out of whack.
So it was like those those arethings that transfer, transfer
over, that kind of helped me out.
It's like knowing that that'swhat it was, not just like, hey,
I want to talk to you aboutfootball all day, you know type
of deal, but that grit, thatunderstanding of striving for
(17:12):
something greater.
And then the other side of thattoo is knowing to keep going
when things aren't turning outthe way you want, but knowing
that you're doing the rightthing, because you got to think
how many people get on the grindand then quit because they're
not getting the results thatthey want right away and they
gave up too early.
And that happens a lot inbusiness too, where you might
(17:34):
have a great idea, a greatproduct, a great service, and
maybe you're rolling it out thewrong way or maybe you're not
talking about it the right way.
We had this problem.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Or you don't want to pivot.
Like you refuse to pivot,you're like no, I'm right, the
customer's not right, I'm right.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And then, before you know it, you burnt yourself out
because you're not having anysuccess and maybe it's not, it's
not the idea, is the way you'redoing it and you give up.
But if you don't have that,knowing like hey, I'm about to
come in here into this weightroom and I'm my book.
My goal is, before the end ofthis summer I want to be able to
(18:10):
bench press 400 pounds threetimes, how do you get there?
Well, you got to start putting400 pounds on the bar and trying
it and felling at it a bunch oftimes before you know.
Now, obviously you don't wantto go in there and just load up
the back.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, exactly People out there.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Be safe in the weight room.
400 pounds, a lot of pounds,it's a lot, it's a lot.
But you go in there and youpick up 300 pounds and you can
do get the 300 pounds of 10times and you get the confidence
to say, like dang, I might beable to put 360 pounds on here
and see how many times.
You know, it's like one ofthose things.
A muscle like you got to getthat confidence and the
(18:45):
understanding of like, hey, Igot a greater goal and I might
fail to get there and I might go.
I might come in here for twoweeks and not be able to move
this bar at all.
Yeah, but on that fourth week Icome in, I might be able to
move that bar an inch, andthat's all you need to keep
yourself going.
And that's what business is,it's a good point Just a little
bit of progress.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
With NITS Fire.
We struggle, we struggle,starting off seriously like we
had this idea.
The origin is me and Michaelstarted a digital marketing
company before we started the,the, the startup.
So we had cash you know ways tomake cash and and and that
hustler mentality.
You don't want to let that gobecause you're like all right, I
(19:27):
can go grab a client to do awebsite, we can go do some
social media.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And make a little $5,000 real quick.
Do a couple of sites, we canget it.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Mike's like hey, I got this idea and I really will
like for you to be a part of it,but this means that we can't do
that anymore and you got todedicate yourself.
I'm like hey, man, the idea isbig enough that I think I love
to be a part of it, but let's,let's figure it out and from
there it's just.
You know, off to the races.
(19:56):
And you know that one inchbetter was when we found out how
to build our MVP and I had anopportunity to go out to Boston
and I sold our first deal and itwas only like $200, $300 a
month deal.
But that was that little inchthat we needed to say hey guys,
(20:16):
we can't quit.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
We got to keep going.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And it was like, oh well, how can you get excited?
And that's like family andpeople that are close to you,
because people love you, Right,they don't want to see you crash
and burn, right, and when theysee you totin this line, they're
going to probably say things toyou that hurt you.
But they're trying to help andtheir head they're trying to
help.
But people couldn't see that.
Oh, dude you, just how much areyou close to deal in Boston?
(20:39):
I'm super excited about howmuch was the deal for it.
I don't worry, it's not howmuch, it's like 300 bucks a
month.
Man, you better go find a realjob.
And it's like, hey, man, look,I'm going to keep doing this
because the idea and is greater,and that's all we needed to
kind of take it to the nextlevel.
And it was just a series ofthose small wins over the last
(21:00):
six, seven years.
It's just like a little bit ofwind keeps you going, a little
bit keeps you going.
And then it's like, hey, youlook back and you're like, hey,
we did all this and we ain'ttook in nobody else's money.
We took in some friends andfamily money and we've been
running this up ourselves.
Yeah, so it's like you can'tquit.
Then, right, you're right.
You know, when we landed at USBank, we were like, hey, this is
(21:25):
like third, fourth largest bankin the country.
Let's just try to grow there.
Right, and that's what we did.
We just tried to develop otherthings inside departments and we
lived off that for a little bit, right, well, and it's 10 times
cheaper to deal with an alreadyexisting client.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Get more business from them, then go out and try
to find another client.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Because a client you know you go after VCs they want
to ask you how much you know,how much does it cost to get a
new client Right?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, those things really matter.
Cost acquisition Costacquisition.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
That's real.
So, you know, we got in thereand started just really figuring
out how we can grow and providemore value versus getting money
.
We wanted to say we want tomake sure that this is valuable,
especially when you're sellingtechnology.
It's like, hey, how is mytechnology helping you get some
type of output that you want?
Like, how is this valuable toyou as an individual?
(22:16):
And we had to talk on a youknow, belly to belly individual
basis while we were a startupworking in this big company,
until someone got comfortableenough and said, hey, let's talk
to the market researchdepartment.
Once we did that, then it waslike there's no way I'm stopped
doing this Because the marketresearch department of the fifth
(22:37):
, fourth, whatever largest bankin the country wants to talk to
me about our company.
There's something there,something a lot bigger there.
So hey, hold on keep going Now,mind you, we still was
bootstrapping, so ain't no moneycoming in really.
You know, we paying our people,we paying our employees.
But you see, the opportunitygetting bigger.
(22:57):
Opportunity just keeps gettingbigger, but we still ain't
paying ourselves.
We did that for like two and ahalf three years, not paying
ourselves.
Oh, that's what you did that.
So it's like you know how doyou?
we've talked about earlier howdo you make money when you're
not paying yourselves?
You do whatever you can rightMichael by trade, like great web
developer doing that.
He built websites on the sidedoing this thing.
(23:19):
On that I did sales andmarketing.
I'd grab a couple clients.
I had a landscaping company Iwas working with for a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Oh yeah, that's a good side hustle.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Doing that, like helping that company out, so you
had to figure out ways.
Another thing too like thepeople sleep on, it was like the
gig economy Deliver groceries,deliver Amazon, deliver Uber,
uber Eats, turo, turo.
Yeah, you have all theseopportunities out here as an
entrepreneur that you have timeto go do right.
(23:52):
If you say, all right, I needto do a side hustle or how to do
it, all right, you got howevermany hours a week that you can
physically work every weekwithout crashing and burning.
You can't say it's 80.
Cause that's not realistic.
You can't do that for a longtime.
You can do it, but not for along time.
But 55, 60 ish hours, I thinkwould be like.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
When the less sleep you end up getting to, the less
effective you are, the next dayExactly.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So you know however many hours a week you can work.
Then you need to say, okay,within this time period, how
much do I need to dedicate to mytasks for my businesses?
So my business still does whatit needs to do, and how much do
I need to dedicate to livingLike, how much do I need to make
so I can pay rent?
How much do I need to buygroceries, daughter, all that
(24:40):
stuff?
So you know what you're workingfor.
You can't just be blind outhere just trying to do something
.
You got to have a goal, that'sright.
So that's what I did for a whiletoo is like Uber, instacart.
I was one of the first peoplearound doing Instacart.
I had like three.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Instacart profiles.
What kind of money can you makedoing just gig economy stuff,
you think?
I mean it sounds like you trieda lot of them.
So what do you think you can do?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So I was one of the ones that like jumped on one and
then like, when it was hot, Iwould do it until it got over
saturated and I'd do another one.
So, like I started off withInstacart because I was like new
and it was hot and I wasfamiliar go to the grocery store
all the time.
It's easy, I'll go pick up yourgroceries, drop them off for
you.
I was doing anywhere between500 to 800 bucks weekly.
(25:27):
I did it one day through Sunday, oh yeah, so I would try to
make you know, 100, 150 bucks aday.
Then they started lettingpeople give tips and then the
amount I started making was morefrom Instacart.
And I did that for a while andtelling everyone about it and I
feel like I told too many people.
Too many people, that's rightyeah, because the price that I
(25:49):
was trying to help people outtoo.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
But people were.
You know, like I said, you tellpeople enough about what you're
doing.
People love you and they wantto know more.
So they're like well, if you'renot paying yourself, how do you
pay your bills?
And it's like well, I don'thave a rich uncle or no one
paying bills for me.
You know, I'm hustling.
So I was trying to do like $700a week, $600 a week.
(26:13):
That way I knew I could takecare of bills, have a couple of
hundred dollars left over forwhatever I needed to do and I
can keep going with my business.
I did that up until it got oversaturated with the Instacart,
where I was doing way moredeliveries than I feel like I
was getting paid for, and I waslike well, I want to change it
up.
And that's when I started doingthe Uber.
And Uber was great because oneI just did the 275 loop.
(26:36):
I would drive to the airport,pick someone up, take them to
PNG, wherever they were going,ask them what they was doing
here, had that conversation,pass my card out, networking
with people.
And I did that, you know, halfthe day.
So I would Uber, like you know,from noon until four or five
every day and I worked mybusiness from the morning until
like noon every day.
I did that for like two yearsand then and that's crazy too-
(27:01):
Like you think of the transitionyou had to make mentally.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You just went from hey, I'm working on stuff, I'm
calling people, I'm doing, I'mcoming up with marketing ideas,
I'm doing all this cerebralstuff.
Then you're just, you'redriving a car, like now you got
to focus on the road, now yougot to focus on you know who,
you, who am I going to pick up?
And that's a.
That's like most people justsit eight hours doing like one
(27:25):
type of job all day.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
It was kind of crazy.
Like I loved Uber, I likedriving and so Uber was great
and I would.
I would still recommend that toany startup founder people out
there bootstrapping trying tofind a way, get out there and
gig.
If it ain't Uber, if that's notyour thing, it's funny.
We're talking about now andwe're talking about when I'm
(27:49):
doing Uber.
We're talking about pre COVID,right?
So boom, now COVID hits and I'ma Uber driver and a startup
founder with a, with a, with anew baby at the same time, with
a new baby at home too.
Yeah, I don't want to knowpeople in my car.
I remember I remember I was,like, you know, trying to psych
myself out.
One time I was like, all right,let me get out here and go get
some rides and it's right.
(28:12):
After the quarantine hit.
Now Uber's still open.
That's why I, that's why thegig economy is great, because
when stuff like that happens,those things, those things
didn't go away.
They didn't say, hey, uber,that Uber didn't say, hey, you
can't drive anymore.
They say, hey, put a mask on,clean your car, clean your car,
do these things.
And that's what I did.
So I was still trying to and Ithink it's just because, in
(28:37):
nature.
I'm just a serving person.
Like I don't want to.
I don't want you to be late forwork because I'm scared to pick
you up in my Uber.
I've been doing this for thelast year, like let's do it
Right.
I picked up a lady like thefirst day of quarantine and she
get in the backseat, get thecoffin.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh yeah, rolled out in windows.
It's freezing outside.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I got the windows down and she don't speak English
, she's a Hispanic, she'stalking in Spanish and I'm like
I'm sorry, roll the windows down, spray your lights.
So I'm freaking out.
But after after that, I felt Idon't want to disrespect anyone
or be insensitive to anyone inmy car.
What other ways can I stillwork with Uber?
(29:17):
And that's when I'm like I'mgoing to just do Uber eats and
it's the best decision I did,because during the pandemic,
everybody was getting stimulusCheck, spending all their money
on Uber eats.
Oh, stimulus checks went quick,bro.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I was getting a two to Turo was good too for
stimulus because people are likewell, that's a nice car I want
to drive a nice car.
I got this stimulus check theywere just spending, dumb it was
like, so I got the deliver inthe food for a while.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
And then I did that for another.
I did Uber for like two yearsand then I started consulting
with the landscaping company andI work with him for like two
and a half years after that.
So then it's been quite a whileAll over the place, yeah, man,
wow, but the constant was nichefire.
You know something that Iwouldn't give up on?
(30:02):
Well, that was a goal.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
That was like the future that's.
That's like, look, I don't wantto have to just do this for the
rest of my life.
I got to, I got to figuresomething else out.
I need a big win, and actuallythat was a book I was thinking
about writing as one big win.
Talk about how, like, if youcan just get a big win somehow
not the lottery or somethingthat's probably going to happen,
but some of you have control of, some of you have in your
(30:26):
control you can get that one bigwin.
That'll lead you into a lot ofother things.
My daddy, my daddy, you justsaid I just need one lick.
Yep, that's it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
One, give me one.
He's old street guy, turnentrepreneur and grew his
landscaping company, somultimillion dollar company.
So he he understood that sideof it.
Especially in contracting youneed just one big, big project.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And that's my dad, yeah.
He's contractor to he's justone of them, travels around the
country, just does whatever hecan do to make money.
You know that.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I mean the contractor .
Money is great though, becauseI mean you can go in and
$200,000 building, I mean sometalking landscape especially now
hydro seeding, yeah, likethere's just so many ways.
That's the thing about, I think, just being an entrepreneur
that you have to grow.
You have to understand, like,how to look at all businesses,
(31:19):
to get inspired, like nobodygood businesses and bad business
Nobody business should belooked at in comparison to yours
.
You should be looking forinspiration because somebody
doing something different thatyou ain't never thought of.
that could probably help you andyour business.
So you can't look up or down onno one's business, and that's
like a mentality I always had,as well as like just always
(31:42):
trying to be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, in the shiny object syndrome too, I mean, you
know you have to stay focusedon what you're doing.
You can't just bounce from onething to the other thing and be
all over the place.
You got to stay focused onthings, which is another reason
I'm like athletes.
I mean you're, you gotschoolwork, tests, all that
stuff, and I dealt with that too.
I went to school for thecreative and form an art.
(32:05):
So we I double major.
I was doing drama and then art.
So I had art projects I had tosit down and just do like you
couldn't, I mean your markerrenderings and things like that,
like you had to actually sitduring school time and do those
projects.
Then, on top of that, you're inthe fifth, sixth grade doing 10
minute Shakespeare monologuesin old English, and I'm
(32:25):
surprised I could barely speakEnglish right.
So I'm like here we go, likeyou know, you got that.
Then you got all your academicclasses on top of that.
I was like going to college andyou're in the fifth, sixth
grade, so I can think of that.
But then I'm like man, ifyou're a college and you're
performing at this high level,the expectations are just it's
(32:46):
crazy.
I mean, you're filling a rosterspot, possibly a scholarship
spot.
You got to perform and you gotyour, your classes, to worry
about.
That's a lot of pressure to beunder.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, it really starts.
Um, they do it at theuniversity, Cincinnati.
Um, and shout out to everyonethat's still there from when I
was there, because there was alot of people on the academic
and sports like support thosesports teams and it really
happens their first year.
Right, If you come in and youwant to party and you want to
(33:24):
let loose, which a lot of 17, 18year olds- do right.
You can quickly fall off of aregiment.
That can help you in long run.
And it's easier when you firststart to get on the program,
with the program then trying todo it your third year there and,
(33:45):
to be honest, if you're stillstruggling with the balancing of
your study tables and all thatstuff by your third year in,
you're just going to be.
You probably are academic andeligible that whole time.
Oh my God, you see what I'msaying so it really starts when
you like a freshman and you knowthe study tables and all those
things.
And then for me, I started offin a major that a lot of my
(34:08):
teammates weren't.
It was only like three of usand I was trying to be a civil
engineer at first, so it wasonly like so many other guys
that were doing that.
I think it might have been twoor three others that were doing
silver engineering or any typeof engineering, and that was
tough.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Because you don't have a circle of people that are
like everybody goes intocriminal justice, right, right,
my, my, I, somebody I was datingback in the day she was getting
her PhD at UC for criminaljustice and everybody was in she
taught you know she, becauseyou're doing your PhD, you have
to teach.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Her entire class was football basketball football,
basketball, yep, and, and that'sgreat Like and one of the best
schools in the country for forthat right now.
But I didn't.
I didn't want to do criminaljustice Like I didn't.
I didn't want to.
I wanted to be a architect,landscape architect or a civil
engineer, build bridges andstuff like that.
So I had to figure out thatfreshman year outside of okay,
(35:05):
the study tables, all that.
If you wanted a tutor, they hadCJ criminal justice tutors,
abundant of them there but whocan help me with stats?
Who can help me with Calc three?
Who can help me with all theseengineering things?
So I had to actually go to theengineering college to get
tutors and stuff like that.
(35:27):
But thank God for the athleticprogram there where they helped
bridge that gap for me.
So they're like hey, listen, heneeds help with this, this and
that.
And I had a tutor my freshmanyear and a couple of classes
that taught me how to study,taught me how to read, cause you
read differently when you'reconsuming large amounts of books
.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Oh, I have probably staying focused when I'm reading
.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, she had to teach me how to study, teach me
how to read, you know.
Teach me how to work so I couldbe efficient, because you know
it's just like going to the gymwhat the school stuff is like.
You got to work that muscle,understand how to do it, so you
don't spend three, four hoursdoing it, you want to just spend
enough time so you can get backto whatever you need to do.
(36:09):
So I mean you had to learn thatstuff.
There's people that just knowhow to study.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
It's crazy, and I think they learn it in their
schools.
I've been out since I public.
So, I would have beencompletely unprepared.
I thought I knew how, but no,yeah not.
These people were real good atI had a couple of friends.
My wife's great at it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I had a couple of friends that were pre-med and
law and it was just like, well,like what, I'm about to go do my
homework, where you guys got togo read and I got a lecture.
I got to read.
Like how much you got to read.
I got to finish this book.
Like the whole book is likeyeah, how long is going to take
you to finish that book?
(36:48):
A couple hours, how?
How do you read?
How do you read that?
So I mean, I took and I alwaysbeen that type of dude I took
and took a speed reading.
Try to learn how to.
Like I said, just the way I'mabout to be, you can't never
look past what someone else isdoing because you might find
(37:08):
some inspiration, that's right.
So somebody tell me they read abook in a couple hours and it
takes me a couple months tofinish a book.
How?
It's like oh, speed reading,what's that?
That's a real thing.
I thought people were justdoing like this.
No, they're actually.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
They're absorbing information faster than my wife
does that speed reading stuff.
It's crazy, it's nuts.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And then it's like oh well, you can gain inspiration
from others, and I think that isanother thing, just being
curious and understanding thatyou not, you can't have no ego
in this.
You got to be.
Yeah, I get the greatest ateverything.
Yeah, you got to.
Yeah, I feel the work, I'm thework, I'm the opposite.
I feel like I'm the worst ateverything and I want to learn
from the people that do itbetter.
That's why I hit you up.
(37:51):
Yeah, man, what's up?
Man, we need to get togetherbecause I know you do great
things and last time we talked,you were talking.
I think you were running forcity council.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
State rep State rep Yep.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Essentially state rep , Essentially just to make this
dude spend money that I wasrunning against because he was
going to win.
But you know, I'm like you getsomebody's got standing his way,
Somebody's got to oppose him,making making prove that he
should be in the spot.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
But in my opinion, like, if you wanted that, you
get it, because I've seen thework you were putting in here
and it wasn't just like you sayit like that on here and it
sounds like it was just, ah,just doing that.
Dude, you had it together Likeyou had a real campaign going.
You had people coming over hereall the time.
I've seen the motion.
Yeah, like oh, I don't knowwhat he's doing.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Like, if you wanted, to, and that was my first time
ever running for anything.
So it was just, you know, oneof the things, and it's like
this is my, this is myneighborhood, like, if you want
to come in here, you're not justgoing to walk into this seat
and nobody else was going tostand up and do anything, you
know, and it was just like Iguess that's me.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Well, I mean, I think , I think it goes it circles all
the way back around just to bein where you from, like you
growing up in the Price Hill.
You know, you know just as wellas me Like it ain't easy to be
where you are right now growingup over there.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Oh, it's tough.
You look back on some of thestuff, the situations I could
have been in the situation Iwasn't, the bad decisions you
can make.
You know I always tell peopleto.
If I go talk to the kids at theschools and stuff.
It's like, look, don't getanybody pregnant when you're
like 12 or 14.
Don't get a felony when you'reyou know there's so many things
like just graduate high school,just get out of high school,
(39:28):
like they don't understand, likehow much of a motivation boost
that is for a lot of kids.
They don't get it, like that'sa.
That's a big challenge for somepeople when you don't have a
support system.
I mean we live in a little onebedroom with four people and in
order for me to study, I wouldgo in a closet, put a pillow
over my ears so I could focus onwhat I was trying to read, just
to get my studying done,because you couldn't go outside.
(39:48):
I mean it was a yeah, what areyou going to do when price is
outside?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I mean you're yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Or, yeah, I mean the library is only open so late, so
you can't really go studyanywhere else.
My school's closed down,because I went to school and
over to run, so it's like youcouldn't.
You couldn't go downtown, andit was just it was.
It was hard, and when you don'thave the proper environment, I
think, for learning, it makes itreally, really tough.
And I think there's a lot ofpeople out there, I mean
(40:15):
especially a lot of people youprobably played ball with.
They came from those kinds ofsituations and you have to learn
so many things that you didn'tknow.
But now you've got a supportsystem, like you said.
Now you've got a tutor, nowyou've got somebody teaching you
how to eat correctly, because Imean that could be a problem
too for people.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I think the other side of that to do item is the
people that was around.
Right Like you can easily,especially like while I'm in
business now like I could stillhang out with a bunch of people
that aren't in business, butit's hard because we don't eat
the same way.
Right Like, we do different.
(40:53):
We do things differently.
So there's always intellectualdifferences that happen, like
where someone thinks a certainway, are they going to do
something a certain way, andyou're like why are you doing it
?
Like that.
It's like, oh well, you'retrained to kind of get up,
that's right.
Yeah, work this day.
I've been trained to not dothat for so long, so it's like
(41:14):
we're not going to see eye toeye.
So keeping the same people,type people around you is like
the most, like invaluable.
Oh, it's crazy Thing you coulddo, because if everyone in that
all 105 of us that you see, notonly was everyone like kind of
cut from the same quote everyonewanted to win, everyone wanted
(41:38):
to win.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Three stars into NFL all pros, I mean it does and the
way you can bring in peoplethat might have felt slighted by
a bigger school.
Your high level three star guymaybe you're 88, 89 Travis was a
quarterback like a two, threestar quarterback out of
Cleveland which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Come in and for this kid to even come to UC as a
quarterback my you, tony Pike,dustin Gruta, chas Anderson,
klares then Mark, those are ourquarterbacks.
You're going to say, I'm goingto come there and play
quarterback.
And you got guys like ChasAnderson and Klares that both
(42:22):
started year before.
You wouldn't see the fielduntil forever.
That's right.
And then the quarterback forhim to come in and you know he
had his ups and downs, whichactually I feel like helped him
out and helped him evolve as anathlete.
But you got guys coming likethat and he was playing
basketball.
Dude, he's a freak.
That's the thing about Travis Alot of people don't know he's
(42:43):
just a gamer Like he's a freakathlete, he's a baller, same
with Jason, just freak athleteslike great athletes, great ball
players, but just tough likenobody.
Nobody was expecting him to bewho they are today.
And that's the thing, man, likewhen you have a group of people
that are all like that, that'swhat happens.
And the cream going rise to thetop every time.
(43:05):
And you got to think to the guysthat push that envelope, the
guys that you know everyone isthe richer halls.
Right, let's go back to AntoinePeaks.
Oh, yes, those guys coming backand you're like, oh, especially
being a guy from here, seeing aguy like rich hall, my freshman
year, telling me as a, as aveteran transfer from Ohio State
(43:28):
, running back, coming here totell me offense alignment, big
fella, move the guy this waybecause I can do this.
Like dude, all the confidencein the world now, like he just
told me that, like, oh my God.
And then you got guys like thatcome in after him butler Benton
, bradley Glathar, your guy fromfrom.
(43:54):
I say a P right, these guys thatjust have this freakish amount
of talent.
You want to be like them too.
So if they out, when in everyrace you're going to try to race
them, I'm out doing sprintsaround yourself with.
I'm racing running backs in mysprint.
I'm not going to win ever.
It might have been a couple ofwalk on running backs that I
(44:15):
might have walked down, tellpeople.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
tell people how big you were then.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
So I was about 300.
20 pounds I'm a little bit morethan that.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Now I need to lose some weight, but I was about
three 15, three 20, six, fiveand a half and you're running
against a six foot five, 10, sixfoot 200 pounder.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
So to fly and like 191.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I had a five flat 40.
So I was pretty quick.
Wow From my size, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
But you got long stride yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I could run and jump real high and stuff like that.
But I would, I would.
I would say I don't want to runagainst the linemen.
It was first like, let me, letme raise some of these D, d
tackles, d hands, yeah.
And then it's like, all right,we're going to raise some
linebackers.
Then the running backs outthere and the wide receivers
like let's race them too.
Then you know you're not goingto win.
(45:03):
But it's the competition.
It's like you know, iron, sharpiron, that's right.
And it's the same in business.
If you surround yourself aroundpeople that are doing better
than you, you can always dobetter, because you're going to
learn.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
sometimes, in order to change yourself, you got to
change your environment 100% all.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Like that's like the biggest invite, like that's the
biggest advice I give anyonetrying to go into business and
really trying to figure out,like, who they should be around
the most, because, like, like Isay, your family loves you, they
don't want you to do this crazystuff.
Like the way starting abusiness is literally insane.
(45:40):
Like just way more easier waysto make money.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
That's yeah, way more easier.
It's the card Uber.
Just go Uber every day, so much.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
It's a better way.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
So your family isn't necessarily going to be the
right people to kind of lean inand lean on, unless you come
from a family of entrepreneurs.
Right Friends usually aren'tgoing to be on that same page
with you because, again, there'seasier ways to do it.
So you got to, you got tobecome a part of those groups,
you got to go to the startup,whatever small business,
(46:13):
whatever chamber commerce,whatever.
You got to just do that overand over and over again and
you'll start finding like, ohwell, this person is good at
this, this person is good atthat, let's get coffee, let's
talk, let's learn.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
They said to you, with a combination of the top
five people in your network,like the top five people you
hang out with the most, that'sthat's where you end up being.
So look at the people aroundyou.
Like what are they doing?
You know, are they?
Do you have people that reachout to you and say, hey, let's
grab a coffee, let's do this?
Are those professional people,you know?
Are those the type of peopleyou want to be like and do stuff
(46:47):
with?
And you know, just as somebodywho you know was part of a team
that started a company, youcould see like the ups and downs
, like you're going to deal withthose things and do you have
the mental fortitude and thesupport system behind you to be
able to get through that and beable to work through that and
say, you know, oh bro, how muchare you making off this, off
(47:08):
this deal?
Only $300 a month.
And be able to brush that offLike, hey, that's cool, whatever
.
Like yeah you know, especiallyif it's somebody who you look up
to right uncle, somebody likethat, who's out here doing this
thing and he's making good money.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Those people's words can really crush you, like they
could really hurt you and peopleyou respect.
And it's like, well, if youhave that community around you
like, hey, listen, and then Imean especially for us, like I
had so many people like that.
And then you know, once youstart branching out and having
(47:42):
those conversations, once youhave some success, then you just
meet better and smarter peopleand then it's just like, hey,
just, you know, hang on.
Like we've been in the middleof closing out a seed round and
it gets shaky Right.
You're waiting for investorcash to come in and you know
trickling in on your customer,you know your revenue coming in,
(48:04):
so you're just running offfumes.
And you got to have somebodythere to say, hey, just hold on.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Like you're blessed to man because you got
developers that are part of theteam, and I think one of the
reasons we were successful is iswe had somebody who was willing
to work for equity and knewwhat he was doing and was
willing to put in those like I'mup till two or three o'clock in
the morning and just grindingcode and stuff.
Like you have to have one ofthe.
If you're a technology star, ifyou got a SaaS business, you
(48:30):
have to have one of those peopleon your, because spending money
on that is crazy, yeah,especially if you don't know
what you're doing.
You got to pivot all the timeand then, going back to a
development team, be like, oh,here, I need to pivot.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
That's why I was so like that's what I'm saying Like
half of it is luck.
You know, in a way, too Like wegot lucky, like Michael skill
set was so great where he's nota full stack developer but he
knew enough to get us where weneeded to go and we knew who we
needed.
So we added, like you said,someone on the team gave them
equity that could help out.
So, since we started ourbusiness, our IP, our you know
(49:05):
data scientists and dataengineers all in house right, we
outsource what we need and wehave partners and strategic
partners in that regard, but wehad those data sciences with us
every day.
So, and what that does for me,someone that does sales and
marketing, I learn.
(49:26):
So it's like, ok, paul, why iswhat you're doing better than
what's out there?
And he can take these hugeideals of data science and
machine learning and break themdown to a way where a football
player can understand them andsay, oh well, when I talk to
customers, this is the value.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
You're trying to distill it from what he's
talking about, because he maynot be the best person to
deliver that message to thecustomer.
Right, he can deliver it to you.
You can take it to still itdown into what you know the
customer is going to want tohear and then deliver it to them
.
Right, and that's a skill thatmost people don't have.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Well, and it's.
It's also finding out how youfit in right Just because you're
not.
You don't have to be adeveloper.
You don't have to be a datascientist to get into tech.
You just have to know whatyou're good at and how that can
apply to a business that is, youknow, a technology business.
And that's what I did.
(50:26):
I didn't, never once, andthat's why our team has been
able to stay together for thelast seven, eight years is
because everyone respects whatthe other founder brings to the
table.
There's never a time whereMichael's like hey, I think I
want you to come over here andrun these Python scripts.
We would not have a business ifwe were doing stuff like that,
(50:50):
right.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Cleal, I need you to go to this event.
Hey, let's send you to Chicagofor this.
Hey, can you go talk to thisperson for this?
You got the chops.
We want you out there.
We want you talking to thesepeople.
That's your value for thiscompany.
That's what you do.
That's the best salespeople aretall people, man.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
So I mean because you're physically like, people
see you, they notice you andthey want to talk to you and you
probably have people come up toyou like you play football.
Yeah, every time.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Every time you play football, if we're if we're
doing an event locally, it'slike the best, especially when
we were having some offensiveline problem.
The Bengals need you, so theBengals do not want me out.
They're not in shape.
I will be tired after the firstthree snaps, Like let the I
don't know, man, the way some ofthem get run over.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
I don't know man, right tackle they throw water.
We have some problems they gettogether man, I like, I like.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
No, they are.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
They're offensive line right now is the best it's
been in a year, man.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Listen, I really like that.
Jackson got out there being alocal guy.
I don't know him personally, Iwatched him play in high school
and he just rough around a rat,but that nastiness that he bring
that.
He got in in the Super Bowl orone of the one of the players
and he drove, block a guy out ofbounds and flexed on him out
and I was like that's what thatline needs.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
We've been.
He came in denigy, like in theBuffalo game.
He held it down.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
That's what I'm saying.
He's a good player.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
It takes two, three years for an offensive line.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah, it takes a long time to get used to.
You got to gel.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Not the individual, not just the individual player.
But then you got and I don'tknow what the hell I'm talking
about, I'm playing football, butfrom what I understand is is
you've got not only does theplayer take two, three years to
really understand the NFL.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, the unit has to move together because you got
certain techniques of you know,back double teams and back steps
and zone steps and movingtogether where you can see that
they got the foundation there.
But people, like I said, peoplewill see me out and be like you
need to play for the banglesand I'm like dude, they ain't
(52:55):
better.
Don't put Joe Burrow behind meright now because I'm telling
you I got two good snaps andthen I want some to eat and I'm
in some Gatorade.
I'm not a football player.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
You should call me on the sideline for me, right.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
I'm not a ball player , no more.
Like I don't have that, no more.
But you're right, and I'm insome ice做 publi個毒 we.
We're good at that as founders.
Like Michael's, a greatvisionary, understands the
artificial intelligence and whathe's trying to pull out of his
brain as far as an analyst andturn into software.
Stevens a whiz when it comes tothe spreadsheets and operations
(53:29):
, and that's something you needfor sure, everyone has their
place, but but think about theway he approaches it.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Michael's going to approach the product and the
customer.
Michael's saying here's theproduct, here's how I think the
customer is going to use it.
You're looking at it from adifferent perspective.
You're probably saying thecustomer has this problem.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
Here's how we need to adapt our stuff to fit what
they have a problem with andit's like OK, a lot of the times
Michael can, Michael can befrom that product side and the
individual that's going to useit.
But how does that matter to thebusiness?
Yes, so helping that person out.
What is the value of it to thebusiness?
(54:12):
And you and I both know if thebusiness can't produce an ROI
off of it, you don't have abusiness.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
You don't have a business.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
So getting into those meetings with that user or that
person that Michael can reallyjail with quickly and they say,
oh, this is brilliant, I've beenlooking for this.
That's nice, Mr Customer, whohas to be here to make these
decisions on this?
Because a lot of the times thatperson can't make that decision
.
So you can get that personhappy or excited, but it's like
(54:42):
how do you sell it to thebusiness?
How do you make make sure thatis the business?
So if I can go talk to yourboss and show them that this is
actually going to generate $25million in the next quarter from
these insights or hey, you gota business question that I know.
If you answer it, you guys cangain $100 million in the next
(55:02):
two quarters.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
That's right For this product.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Why wouldn't you spend $100,000?
You would.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, do whatever you got to do.
I mean that's yeah, you know,you've got that sitting out
there and you got that positive,the potential.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
And that's why me and Michael work well together in
meetings, because I know thathe's coming from the product
perspective and he knows thatI'm always thinking of all right
, how to make the business buyit from us, because I'm like,
okay, so I'm always, and it'slike you got to be a good
listener, you got to listen andunderstand, like what's
(55:35):
important and then understandthe right questions to ask.
But we all have our thing thatwe're good at, but you gel
together and that's I thinkthat's how we did too.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
It was like you had the right team and there's ways
to put together a team now thatI mean you can look at
personality types, you can lookat just psychological.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
We did one of those tests.
It was, I forget, one of theVCs.
How to do one of those?
Was it like an?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Enneagram, or oh was it.
Was it the guys down here?
I think so In.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Covington.
Yeah, it was called Wendell.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, yeah, they were on the show.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
So we did that test and the I forget who came back
was like hey, we looked at yourresults from this and this is
the perfect mixture.
Yes, because you have.
You know, you guys.
You guys both are like me andMichael are both like, super
optimistic, want to do this typeof guys.
And then Steven, steven, morerealists.
(56:27):
I'll call him pessimisticsometimes, but he's more real
yeah but you gotta have that guyto balance those out.
And then, like all the otherpieces of it, it was like oh so,
where this guy isn't good, thisguy's good, this guy's good.
And it's just like when youwork with people for more than
five years, you know I thinkwe're going on eight years now
(56:48):
working together Wow, you becomefamily in a way.
That's right and you know it's.
It's like the perfect storm.
You know, like if someone asksus how we got to where we are
now, first thing we, you knowmost likely we'll say is like
hey, well, we still ain't wherewe want to be first of all.
(57:08):
So don't like, don't look up tous in that regard, because
we're just super humble, likethere's a lot of things that we
want to be better at.
So but I think the number onething for us is just sticking
together and not giving up tooearly and then knowing when to
pivot, because we had a hugepivot.
We had a pivot about a year anda half ago where we switched
(57:31):
from selling our legacy platform, which was this competitive
intelligence tool can kind ofpair you up, benchmark you
against your competitors.
Great product, still veryuseful, but kind of late to the
party.
It was a, it was a nice to have.
We switched from that tobuilding out this trend fire
platform, which we understoodwas a blind spot, and most
(57:53):
organizations across the countrywhen it comes to you know,
trendspotting and forecastingand fortune telling, all that
stuff.
That was real scary because itwas like all right, we're going
to pivot, we're going to do it.
And for us to get through thatit took everyone to just be good
at what they were good at.
And for me, I knew where I wasbad at and I was like all right,
(58:15):
I'm about to learn everything Ipossibly can about machine
learning at a high level so thatI can explain it, because
usually the person that's buyingis like me where they're not an
expert at it, they don't reallyneed to know all the
idiosyncrasies of it, right,because that stuff is super
complex.
Oh yeah, really cool stuff.
(58:36):
And I mean, I mean you could.
You could literally spend ayear trying to learn about it
and still have.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
But the people buying from you, they know.
They know what they don't haveand what they need to have and
what's going to give them thatedge in the industry.
I mean forecasting and and Imean there's.
There's so many different waysyou could do it, so many ways
you could do it wrong, or just,you know, take a shot in the
dark kind of thing.
Is what really what people donow?
(59:04):
Right, there's no real solutionreally, until you guys came out
that can say, look, we couldtell here's where we're getting
this information from, here'show we're putting this together.
It's, it's, it's.
You have more confidence.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
It's funny we went to .
Did you go?
To signal the PNG event thatthey just had recently?
Speaker 2 (59:27):
I didn't.
Yeah, I was too busy.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
They had the CMO of McDonald's there.
Oh she said something reallyinteresting that really stood
out about how they're asking.
Like you know, mcdonald's ishistorically always in marketing
crushing it right.
Good commercials, oh yeah, goodmessaging they do a really good
job, but it was like a lot moresuccess recently and then like
(59:52):
the grimace shake and all thatstuff.
So it was like perfect time forher to talk about some of those
things.
But one of the things that shesaid that stood out to me was
given letting our people to havethat creative confidence.
And how do you have thatcreative confidence behind your
idea or whatever?
You need data, you need youneed to understand that your
(01:00:13):
decision isn't just some wildidea that might work yeah.
Some mad scientist and it don'twork like that anymore.
Out here there's so much data,there's so much, there's so many
data points that thesebusinesses have that they can
make decisions off of.
But sometimes there's blindspots and we figured out like,
(01:00:34):
hey, we can provide this blindspot when it comes to trans
spotting or understanding thatcultural, you know, societal,
economic behavior behind thesetrends online.
That's that sweet spot that Iwas talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Well, when you get in a room in your brain storm with
a bunch of the creatives I meanI've been in plenty of those
meetings you know there can beroom split right, like you got
guys like oh, I think this.
The lady that's like Yo, Ithink this.
And how do you?
How do you solve those debates?
How do you come to a conclusionand come up with something
that's going to work Right?
It's just days of hey.
I got this, I got that, justdata.
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
And it usually bought , like those conversations you
saw right.
Then it's two things that youdo now.
Now we're going to AB test itand it's like, hey, we're not
trying to change anything aboutthat, Because I think that that
way of doing things whenespecially come to marketing
still a great way of doing it.
We just want to make thatsmarter.
Let's make your AB test alittle bit smarter.
Let's take it another level andsay, hey, you're elevating
(01:01:32):
these ideas.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Like it's not just hey, I've got this idea, I think
it's ready to go, I think thisis great, Sounds good.
Wait a minute, you can takethat to the next level, yeah.
Or use it early in the processto help develop the ideas.
And because I mean you'll getsparks of information.
You'll get sparks of ideas fromjust looking at that
information it gives you.
(01:01:53):
It's almost like if you're apainter sitting there looking at
a blank canvas versus maybethere's a sketch outline on
there already for you, you knowand then just being able to go
over top of that.
That's kind of what it is in away.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Yeah, and the difference is some places have
better painters than others.
Some painters have differentstyles.
It's really up to that personmaking the decision how good or
great or bad it could be basedoff of their skill level.
So that's super interesting,though, and I think the main
(01:02:29):
thing, it's a fun category to bein.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
It really is.
Yeah, you're dealing withpeople that are coming up with
ideas and trying to make theircompanies better and make things
better for the consumer at theend of the day, and it's a cool
thing to be in.
And I mean, you guys are outhere, you're raising around
right now.
You know, if somebody's outhere listening to the podcast
and they want to learn moreabout what you guys are doing,
give them the URL, the websitethey can go to.
Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
You can check our website out.
It's wwwnitchfirecom.
That's N-I-C-H-E-F-I-R-E, Allone word firecom.
You can reach out to medirectly, Khalil E.
I'm pretty sure you'll put myinformation on the pot so people
can find me on social mediaLinkedIn, Instagram threads.
Follow me on threads, KhalilE513 on threads.
(01:03:15):
I'm always on there, but reachout to us, man, we love to talk
to you.
If it's just to just ask aboutmachine learning and AI, just
reach out to us.
Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Things are constantly changing and people are super
interested in that technology.
So, yeah, guys, so check himout.
And Khalil, thanks a lot forbeing on the show.
Appreciate you.
Adam, all right, thanks forjoining us on this week's
episode of Side Hustle City.
Well, you've heard from ourguests.
Now let's hear from you.
Join our community on Facebook,side Hustle City.
It's a group where people shareideas, share their
(01:03:47):
inspirational stories andmotivate each other to be
successful and turn their sidehustle into their main hustle.
We'll see you there and we'llsee you next week on the show,
thank you.
Welcome to Side Hustle City and thanks for
joining us.
Our goal is to help you connectto real people who found
success turning their sidehustle into a main hustle, and
we hope you can too.
I'm Adam Kaler.
I'm joined by Kyle Stevie, myco-host.
Let's get started, all right?
(00:31):
Welcome back, everybody to theSide Hustle City podcast Today's
special guest, khalil Alameen.
How are you doing, sir?
What's going on, man?
It's going so.
Former UC player turned techbro, or whatever you want to say
.
So Khalil was in our space herefor a while with his
(00:52):
co-founders and doing a companycalled Nitchfire which analyzes
social chatter, I guess forbrands.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
High level.
Yeah, high level, yeah, at ahigh level.
What we do is we enablebusinesses to conduct social
intelligence with the use of AI,so we're helping businesses
understand the insights behindthe data online, and it's not
just social media, it's news andmedia blogs, any type of
(01:24):
conversation happening online.
We can pretty much capture it,run through our models and give
you insights behind what'shappening.
Yeah, our biggest thing rightnow is our trendfire platform is
identifying trends andpredicting them six to 12 months
into the future.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, that's wild too , with all the factors that go
on with the economy and with allthis stuff that's happening.
You guys can still kind of takea look at that.
I see that I feel like thatwould have way more than just
significance for a brand.
That seems like something thatthe government would want to use
like a forecasting system aspart of all this other stuff
(02:00):
that they do.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Foresight is like a huge buzzword right now across
bitcodes.
Everyone wants to understandwhat the impact of decisions are
before they make them.
When it comes to trends,average person probably think
about hey, it's a trend onTikTok.
Or hey, this color is a trendor this certain type of for our
(02:23):
80s baby like a Tamagotchi right.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Oh yeah, trendy.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But what we're actually looking at are cultural
trends or those behaviors thatmake up a community online, so
essentially allowing businessesto be a fly on the room in these
rooms that they're not in.
So how do you better connect orshow up where your customers
want to be at and position yourbrand in that way?
It's aiding storytelling, it'saiding communications, it's
(02:51):
aiding sales strategy.
So it can get prettyinteresting what you can do with
the data from it.
But you're 100% right, like Imean something that everyone is
super into because of theforesight behind it.
Oh yeah, fortuneteller.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Oh yeah, that's what everybody wants to be.
They want to be ahead of theircompetitors somehow and figure
out and you guys do a lot ofstuff with finance too.
Do you have a lot of financeclients?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
it sounds like Our first client was US Bank.
We've been working with themfor the past like five years, a
couple other smaller banks andinvestment banks and things like
that, and then we also workwith Walmart.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh, wow.
Well, that's a big one.
Yeah, I think if you ever lookat a map of the United States
and who the biggest employer isin the States like 30 states the
number one employer is Walmart.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, it's wild.
No, it's huge.
It's been a great experienceworking with Walmart.
We learned a lot.
Especially when you're smalllike us, I mean you can get into
these big organizations and aslong as you do good work and
good business acumen, you canlearn a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh yeah, well, we don't have enough startup people
, and it's crazy because I comefrom the startup world and it's
like you'd think I'd have morestartup people on the show.
But it's always like realestate investors and just random
stuff, like I like to mix it upa little bit.
But it's good to have anotherstartup person on the show to
talk about the difficulties,because people think they see
(04:13):
these success stories, they seethese companies that are selling
for a billion dollars orraising $200 million in their A
round and everybody's like, wow,that's amazing, oh, this
person's killing it.
But you just don't hear a lotabout how hard it is to get to
that point and the struggle thatyou have for years to even get
(04:36):
any traction with a company likea US bank or a Walmart.
That's some work just to get tothat point.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It's.
You know, I equated to reallyjust what I say you burn your
ships or whatever.
It was that type of mentality,man, I feel like I jumped in
very later in life.
In my previous life, obviouslyyou was talking about it I was a
(05:04):
football player, tried to livethat dream for as long as I can.
I played up until I was about26 years old.
So, jumping into business, Imean I was in my 30s when I
jumped into business withMichael and Steve and my
co-founders.
People look at you like you'recrazy, like dude, what are you
doing?
Like how you pay yourself, howyou do this, how you do that,
(05:27):
and it was, you know, it was oneof those things where you had
to fall in love with the dreamand believe in it more than
anyone, because nobody's goingto believe in it that's right
Except you.
So shout out to my co-foundersman, I love those guys.
We've been sticking together.
We've been through our ups anddowns.
It's tough.
We bootstrapped up until thisyear.
(05:48):
Really, we took in some friendsand family money early, but
it's been bootstrapping, so thehustle was real.
Had to figure out how to feed,in my situation, a family.
You know I had children, dreams, goals, aspirations.
It's funny, I was just talkingto my daughters on our way over
(06:08):
to the pot, told her, you know,because we stopped and get
coffee and we usually do thiswhen she's with me in the summer
We'll get coffee in the morning.
Our mornings are different thanmost people's mornings, right,
and she can compare and contrastto, because you know she spends
mornings with her moms and thenmornings with me and she's like
well, it's super chill in themorning here.
(06:30):
Like you go get coffee, we chillout, we read, and then it's
like, you know, around 10, 30,11 o'clock.
That's when you get busy.
Like I want to do that when Igrow up and I was like it took a
long time for us to get here,like you got to sacrifice
everything to get here.
You sacrifice relationships,friendships, fun, finances.
(06:54):
Yeah, you know, maybe Icouldn't buy the shoes that I
wanted or go on the vacationthat I wanted because I was
grinding and I had to figure outhow to grind our way through it
.
So you're 100 percent right,like it takes a lot of oh just
fortitude and grit.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, and you got to want it Right, but I mean I
think you're, I mean obviously,I mean you Played at one of the
highest levels you could play atin football and for the
university Cincinnati, and thatwas Big East, right when you
were playing.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, we were we, we Two.
What was he?
Two, three time big Eastchampions.
When I was there, which iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, was that Tony Pike you were playing with too.
Oh man, so was he on his wayout.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
No, no no, tony, me and Tony came in together.
So Tony Gray shirted it, though, so he got an extra year of
eligibility, but it was.
It was like my.
My junior year was been mocked.
Yeah, that senior year it was.
Grutsa Grutsa got hurt, yeah.
Then it was Tony.
(07:55):
Tony broke his arm, then it wasChas Anderson and Zach Coleris.
We had like six quartersColeris.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
He's killing it still , and I swear like he's like
winning championships and it'slike people were like well,
that's Canada.
I'm like no, you know the dudesa gamer.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
He's a baller, oh yeah.
And then Tony Sokru back around, and then that next year that's
when Tony had that crazy yearlike the Pitt game and you see,
that was our first undefeatedseason.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Was that the Pittsburgh game?
Yeah, when they played, thatwas all.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
that was the greatest day I was gone by then, but
like that year was like magical.
I went down to the sugar bowlwith those guys and so I was
like that.
I still felt like I was on theteam that year, but my scenes,
my season was the orange ballseason.
Yeah, so I mean I like to thinkthat we kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Was that the new one, that was the New Orleans one
right.
Was that New Orleans Orange?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
New Orleans Orange Bowl was Miami Miami.
And then the sugar bowl was NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, that's the one.
I think I wanted to was thesugar bowl.
It's Florida, right.
Yeah, was that the Florida one?
Yeah, that was the Indian.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You ran to Tebow and that was that team was stacked.
We had a what's the corner name?
Joe Hayden, yep, tim Tebow,aaron Hernandez, carlos Dunn.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Oh, was Dunn lap on that team, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, Pound T brothers.
Oh, my goodness.
I mean they had like 15, 18,all Americans.
Yeah, All those guys went firstround.
I mean some of those are ProBowlers.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Pound T's a Pro Bowler right Pound T Pro Bowler.
Dunn lap.
Dunn lap, I don't know if Dunnlap was ever a Pro Bowler, but
Hayden, I mean, look at hiscareer, Hayden.
Still.
I don't know if he's stillplaying or not, Right?
No, yeah, he might be a freeagent this year.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
He still can play.
Yeah, that's the thing, andlike we're all like the same age
, you know like 36, late 30s, soyou know he's keeping himself
together.
But yeah, I mean that team inFlorida was stacked.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I know that we didn't have a chance, even though I
went down or enacted like we did, I was running my mouth like we
did, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I think, I think, and it's sad that we got to go
through that every so often withthis, with the school.
Like you, said I think that'sgoing to the Big 12 and keep
that momentum going.
You know new coaching staff andall that they got to get shot
at, kind of getting that staplein there.
But you can't deny.
You see, when you go back, youknow was that I don't know how
(10:19):
many years ago when I played.
Then you got guys comingthrough like sauce gardener
where it's just like the bestthat you ever seen.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
You got the best center in football right now.
You got the best tight end infootball and you got arguably
the best corner in football.
It's funny.
I think you got the best centerin football.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It's the same school.
Jason didn't even play center.
When I was there, he was ourguard, which is wild.
Yeah, it was like his firstyear starting and we had to get
him fat and get him over it.
There's like a linebacker.
When he first came to walk onlinebacker with this big thing
wrapped around his head and likeyeah, so yeah, all from the
same school all from the sameschool and the crazy thing is is
the coaches keep leaving andthey just keep reloading.
(10:56):
That's what I'm saying.
You can't.
It's the program Undeniably Backto that mentality.
You talked about grit andentrepreneurship and everything
Like.
That's the DNA of these UC guys.
You're not gonna.
It don't matter who comes andcoach Like we'd love to have
someone that stays for a millionyears like-.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Nick Saban or somebody.
Yeah, We'd love that.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
But if that doesn't happen, it don't matter, because
dogs are gonna come out of this.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
The city's gonna get behind it.
The people here like we're inone of the best places in the
country for ice cream football.
I mean you could top fiveprobably you know, and I mean
even I remember when we wereyounger.
I remember Kirk Herbshaw hadthat challenge and I think it
was Colrain.
Colrain played the Texas.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
No, because the team had a TV show.
Those guys had a TV show.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Oh, that's right, I remember that.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And they was at and the whole country was like oh,
this team is da-da-da-da.
And they came up here and gotspanked that's right by the team
from the TV show.
Got spanked by either Molar orColrain.
I think it was Colrain.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
One of those guys dumped them.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
It was a year after Goody and them got to UC.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Oh so.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Coach Combs was still coaching there, but he spent a
year there after Goody and themgot here.
Then Coach Combs came.
It's good to have Coach Combshere in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I love Coach Combs man.
Yeah, it's good to have himhere.
He belongs here.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Man, his energy is just everything.
It's crazy, just everything.
But man, yeah, man, this is aspecial place for football and
you know, I know we're supposedto be talking about business,
but yeah, that does but it leadsinto it Because we're talking
about a mentality.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We're talking about a college that can lose a coach
and all these coaches going tobecome great.
I mean it's Dantonio.
Look at Dantonio.
He did Michigan State.
I mean, he did a great job inMichigan State.
I mean Brian Kelly.
I mean you go to Notre Dame andnow you're at LSU.
It's just like the list goes on.
(12:47):
And I'm sure Fickle's going tobe great at Wisconsin.
It was just Tuberville.
Years were tough.
That was a weird error, buthe's in Congress now.
He's doing his thing in Congress, whatever.
But you have players that havebecome great.
I mean you could probably sayZach Kolaris, but when he
finishes his football careerhe's going to go down as one of
(13:08):
the greatest CFL playersProbably I mean in history
probably.
I mean he's bringing it andhe's winning championships.
He put the team on his back,like that video, and he put the
team on his back, but he did.
He's put his team on his back.
But you've got a mentality there, and not just with UC.
I mean you've got a mentalityin at that level, the amount of
(13:31):
work that you have to do.
And people see these playersand they're just looking at oh,
I can do that.
No, you can't.
Like you can do that, like it'sjust it's not going to happen.
And it's not just thephysicality of it, it's not just
you know the being blessed bybeing a big guy like you.
You said before this you wereeight years old or whatever,
(13:52):
playing with 12 year oldsbecause they wouldn't let you
play with the year.
Well, that's a blessing, youknow, in a way, but not
everybody has that.
But then on top of that, youhave to have the mental
fortitude, you have to have thework ethic, and sometimes that
comes with playing the sport.
Like, sometimes you learn thatbecause some of these kids going
(14:14):
in or they may not have thework ethic, but coach is going
to make you get up early, runsprints, do this, do that.
Make sure you're working out,make sure you're eating right.
Yeah, things that you probablydidn't grow up with.
You know, and it's that itchanges your mindset and then
you could be successful to thethings like a startup.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Mm.
Hmm, it really transferred overfor me when, when I got my
first job outside of footballand it was.
It was interesting because,like all, the leadership would
always use me as an example andto a certain extent I kind of
(14:57):
got annoyed from it because itwas always like, oh well, you
play football, so you know howto do this, and I'm like what,
what does that have to do withanything you're talking about?
But what I come to find out isthat a lot of people, when they
were 18, didn't get forced towake up at four am in the winter
to go run in the snow with yourteammates.
(15:18):
A lot of people don'tunderstand the dedication that
you have to put towardssomething to be good at it, not
alone Great, just to be good atsomething.
So you know, and a lot of theroles that I started off in my
professional career were salesroles.
So the sales, sales managers,love athletes because sales is
(15:40):
athletic, is the most athleticbusiness function that you have,
like that you can draw thatline.
So the sales managers wouldalways be like, khalil, this and
I, you know.
Starting off I'd be like, yeah,that's cool.
But then I started like this iskind of corny man, like I don't
even want to be that example,like why do everyone think?
(16:01):
But it was like, oh well, youknow how to wake up and make a.
You know have your list readyto call out in the morning.
You know how to do.
These are things that you doautomatically because you're
used to being regimen.
A lot of people don't gothrough that in college.
Some people are just kind ofgetting through college or, you
know, having other things thatthey want to do.
So that constant strivingtowards something greater is, I
(16:26):
think, the catalyst like thatthey were looking for.
Like OK, well, we want to wewant that.
Yeah, you want to bottle that upand show other people this is
the way you hand to yourbusiness when you come in and
really quick, like quicklyidentifying, like like off, and
it's like a personal thing forme, like I could quickly
identify, like when I was doneplaying ball, if I didn't like
(16:48):
not having a routine aroundthings.
You just feel out of whack.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Like if you don't get up and do things the same way
and you feel out of whack.
So it was like those those arethings that transfer, transfer
over, that kind of helped me out.
It's like knowing that that'swhat it was, not just like, hey,
I want to talk to you aboutfootball all day, you know type
of deal, but that grit, thatunderstanding of striving for
(17:12):
something greater.
And then the other side of thattoo is knowing to keep going
when things aren't turning outthe way you want, but knowing
that you're doing the rightthing, because you got to think
how many people get on the grindand then quit because they're
not getting the results thatthey want right away and they
gave up too early.
And that happens a lot inbusiness too, where you might
(17:34):
have a great idea, a greatproduct, a great service, and
maybe you're rolling it out thewrong way or maybe you're not
talking about it the right way.
We had this problem.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Or you don't want to pivot.
Like you refuse to pivot,you're like no, I'm right, the
customer's not right, I'm right.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And then, before you know it, you burnt yourself out
because you're not having anysuccess and maybe it's not, it's
not the idea, is the way you'redoing it and you give up.
But if you don't have that,knowing like hey, I'm about to
come in here into this weightroom and I'm my book.
My goal is, before the end ofthis summer I want to be able to
(18:10):
bench press 400 pounds threetimes, how do you get there?
Well, you got to start putting400 pounds on the bar and trying
it and felling at it a bunch oftimes before you know.
Now, obviously you don't wantto go in there and just load up
the back.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, exactly People out there.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Be safe in the weight room.
400 pounds, a lot of pounds,it's a lot, it's a lot.
But you go in there and youpick up 300 pounds and you can
do get the 300 pounds of 10times and you get the confidence
to say, like dang, I might beable to put 360 pounds on here
and see how many times.
You know, it's like one ofthose things.
A muscle like you got to getthat confidence and the
(18:45):
understanding of like, hey, Igot a greater goal and I might
fail to get there and I might go.
I might come in here for twoweeks and not be able to move
this bar at all.
Yeah, but on that fourth week Icome in, I might be able to
move that bar an inch, andthat's all you need to keep
yourself going.
And that's what business is,it's a good point Just a little
bit of progress.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
With NITS Fire.
We struggle, we struggle,starting off seriously like we
had this idea.
The origin is me and Michaelstarted a digital marketing
company before we started the,the, the startup.
So we had cash you know ways tomake cash and and and that
hustler mentality.
You don't want to let that gobecause you're like all right, I
(19:27):
can go grab a client to do awebsite, we can go do some
social media.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And make a little $5,000 real quick.
Do a couple of sites, we canget it.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Mike's like hey, I got this idea and I really will
like for you to be a part of it,but this means that we can't do
that anymore and you got todedicate yourself.
I'm like hey, man, the idea isbig enough that I think I love
to be a part of it, but let's,let's figure it out and from
there it's just.
You know, off to the races.
(19:56):
And you know that one inchbetter was when we found out how
to build our MVP and I had anopportunity to go out to Boston
and I sold our first deal and itwas only like $200, $300 a
month deal.
But that was that little inchthat we needed to say hey guys,
(20:16):
we can't quit.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
We got to keep going.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And it was like, oh well, how can you get excited?
And that's like family andpeople that are close to you,
because people love you, Right,they don't want to see you crash
and burn, right, and when theysee you totin this line, they're
going to probably say things toyou that hurt you.
But they're trying to help andtheir head they're trying to
help.
But people couldn't see that.
Oh, dude you, just how much areyou close to deal in Boston?
(20:39):
I'm super excited about howmuch was the deal for it.
I don't worry, it's not howmuch, it's like 300 bucks a
month.
Man, you better go find a realjob.
And it's like, hey, man, look,I'm going to keep doing this
because the idea and is greater,and that's all we needed to
kind of take it to the nextlevel.
And it was just a series ofthose small wins over the last
(21:00):
six, seven years.
It's just like a little bit ofwind keeps you going, a little
bit keeps you going.
And then it's like, hey, youlook back and you're like, hey,
we did all this and we ain'ttook in nobody else's money.
We took in some friends andfamily money and we've been
running this up ourselves.
Yeah, so it's like you can'tquit.
Then, right, you're right.
You know, when we landed at USBank, we were like, hey, this is
(21:25):
like third, fourth largest bankin the country.
Let's just try to grow there.
Right, and that's what we did.
We just tried to develop otherthings inside departments and we
lived off that for a little bit, right, well, and it's 10 times
cheaper to deal with an alreadyexisting client.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Get more business from them, then go out and try
to find another client.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Because a client you know you go after VCs they want
to ask you how much you know,how much does it cost to get a
new client Right?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, those things really matter.
Cost acquisition Costacquisition.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
That's real.
So, you know, we got in thereand started just really figuring
out how we can grow and providemore value versus getting money
.
We wanted to say we want tomake sure that this is valuable,
especially when you're sellingtechnology.
It's like, hey, how is mytechnology helping you get some
type of output that you want?
Like, how is this valuable toyou as an individual?
(22:16):
And we had to talk on a youknow, belly to belly individual
basis while we were a startupworking in this big company,
until someone got comfortableenough and said, hey, let's talk
to the market researchdepartment.
Once we did that, then it waslike there's no way I'm stopped
doing this Because the marketresearch department of the fifth
(22:37):
, fourth, whatever largest bankin the country wants to talk to
me about our company.
There's something there,something a lot bigger there.
So hey, hold on keep going Now,mind you, we still was
bootstrapping, so ain't no moneycoming in really.
You know, we paying our people,we paying our employees.
But you see, the opportunitygetting bigger.
(22:57):
Opportunity just keeps gettingbigger, but we still ain't
paying ourselves.
We did that for like two and ahalf three years, not paying
ourselves.
Oh, that's what you did that.
So it's like you know how doyou?
we've talked about earlier howdo you make money when you're
not paying yourselves?
You do whatever you can rightMichael by trade, like great web
developer doing that.
He built websites on the sidedoing this thing.
(23:19):
On that I did sales andmarketing.
I'd grab a couple clients.
I had a landscaping company Iwas working with for a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Oh yeah, that's a good side hustle.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Doing that, like helping that company out, so you
had to figure out ways.
Another thing too like thepeople sleep on, it was like the
gig economy Deliver groceries,deliver Amazon, deliver Uber,
uber Eats, turo, turo.
Yeah, you have all theseopportunities out here as an
entrepreneur that you have timeto go do right.
(23:52):
If you say, all right, I needto do a side hustle or how to do
it, all right, you got howevermany hours a week that you can
physically work every weekwithout crashing and burning.
You can't say it's 80.
Cause that's not realistic.
You can't do that for a longtime.
You can do it, but not for along time.
But 55, 60 ish hours, I thinkwould be like.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
When the less sleep you end up getting to, the less
effective you are, the next dayExactly.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So you know however many hours a week you can work.
Then you need to say, okay,within this time period, how
much do I need to dedicate to mytasks for my businesses?
So my business still does whatit needs to do, and how much do
I need to dedicate to livingLike, how much do I need to make
so I can pay rent?
How much do I need to buygroceries, daughter, all that
(24:40):
stuff?
So you know what you're workingfor.
You can't just be blind outhere just trying to do something
.
You got to have a goal, that'sright.
So that's what I did for a whiletoo is like Uber, instacart.
I was one of the first peoplearound doing Instacart.
I had like three.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Instacart profiles.
What kind of money can you makedoing just gig economy stuff,
you think?
I mean it sounds like you trieda lot of them.
So what do you think you can do?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So I was one of the ones that like jumped on one and
then like, when it was hot, Iwould do it until it got over
saturated and I'd do another one.
So, like I started off withInstacart because I was like new
and it was hot and I wasfamiliar go to the grocery store
all the time.
It's easy, I'll go pick up yourgroceries, drop them off for
you.
I was doing anywhere between500 to 800 bucks weekly.
(25:27):
I did it one day through Sunday, oh yeah, so I would try to
make you know, 100, 150 bucks aday.
Then they started lettingpeople give tips and then the
amount I started making was morefrom Instacart.
And I did that for a while andtelling everyone about it and I
feel like I told too many people.
Too many people, that's rightyeah, because the price that I
(25:49):
was trying to help people outtoo.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
But people were.
You know, like I said, you tellpeople enough about what you're
doing.
People love you and they wantto know more.
So they're like well, if you'renot paying yourself, how do you
pay your bills?
And it's like well, I don'thave a rich uncle or no one
paying bills for me.
You know, I'm hustling.
So I was trying to do like $700a week, $600 a week.
(26:13):
That way I knew I could takecare of bills, have a couple of
hundred dollars left over forwhatever I needed to do and I
can keep going with my business.
I did that up until it got oversaturated with the Instacart,
where I was doing way moredeliveries than I feel like I
was getting paid for, and I waslike well, I want to change it
up.
And that's when I started doingthe Uber.
And Uber was great because oneI just did the 275 loop.
(26:36):
I would drive to the airport,pick someone up, take them to
PNG, wherever they were going,ask them what they was doing
here, had that conversation,pass my card out, networking
with people.
And I did that, you know, halfthe day.
So I would Uber, like you know,from noon until four or five
every day and I worked mybusiness from the morning until
like noon every day.
I did that for like two yearsand then and that's crazy too-
(27:01):
Like you think of the transitionyou had to make mentally.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You just went from hey, I'm working on stuff, I'm
calling people, I'm doing, I'mcoming up with marketing ideas,
I'm doing all this cerebralstuff.
Then you're just, you'redriving a car, like now you got
to focus on the road, now yougot to focus on you know who,
you, who am I going to pick up?
And that's a.
That's like most people justsit eight hours doing like one
(27:25):
type of job all day.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
It was kind of crazy.
Like I loved Uber, I likedriving and so Uber was great
and I would.
I would still recommend that toany startup founder people out
there bootstrapping trying tofind a way, get out there and
gig.
If it ain't Uber, if that's notyour thing, it's funny.
We're talking about now andwe're talking about when I'm
(27:49):
doing Uber.
We're talking about pre COVID,right?
So boom, now COVID hits and I'ma Uber driver and a startup
founder with a, with a, with anew baby at the same time, with
a new baby at home too.
Yeah, I don't want to knowpeople in my car.
I remember I remember I was,like, you know, trying to psych
myself out.
One time I was like, all right,let me get out here and go get
some rides and it's right.
(28:12):
After the quarantine hit.
Now Uber's still open.
That's why I, that's why thegig economy is great, because
when stuff like that happens,those things, those things
didn't go away.
They didn't say, hey, uber,that Uber didn't say, hey, you
can't drive anymore.
They say, hey, put a mask on,clean your car, clean your car,
do these things.
And that's what I did.
So I was still trying to and Ithink it's just because, in
(28:37):
nature.
I'm just a serving person.
Like I don't want to.
I don't want you to be late forwork because I'm scared to pick
you up in my Uber.
I've been doing this for thelast year, like let's do it
Right.
I picked up a lady like thefirst day of quarantine and she
get in the backseat, get thecoffin.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh yeah, rolled out in windows.
It's freezing outside.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I got the windows down and she don't speak English
, she's a Hispanic, she'stalking in Spanish and I'm like
I'm sorry, roll the windows down, spray your lights.
So I'm freaking out.
But after after that, I felt Idon't want to disrespect anyone
or be insensitive to anyone inmy car.
What other ways can I stillwork with Uber?
(29:17):
And that's when I'm like I'mgoing to just do Uber eats and
it's the best decision I did,because during the pandemic,
everybody was getting stimulusCheck, spending all their money
on Uber eats.
Oh, stimulus checks went quick,bro.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I was getting a two to Turo was good too for
stimulus because people are likewell, that's a nice car I want
to drive a nice car.
I got this stimulus check theywere just spending, dumb it was
like, so I got the deliver inthe food for a while.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
And then I did that for another.
I did Uber for like two yearsand then I started consulting
with the landscaping company andI work with him for like two
and a half years after that.
So then it's been quite a whileAll over the place, yeah, man,
wow, but the constant was nichefire.
You know something that Iwouldn't give up on?
(30:02):
Well, that was a goal.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
That was like the future that's.
That's like, look, I don't wantto have to just do this for the
rest of my life.
I got to, I got to figuresomething else out.
I need a big win, and actuallythat was a book I was thinking
about writing as one big win.
Talk about how, like, if youcan just get a big win somehow
not the lottery or somethingthat's probably going to happen,
but some of you have control of, some of you have in your
(30:26):
control you can get that one bigwin.
That'll lead you into a lot ofother things.
My daddy, my daddy, you justsaid I just need one lick.
Yep, that's it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
One, give me one.
He's old street guy, turnentrepreneur and grew his
landscaping company, somultimillion dollar company.
So he he understood that sideof it.
Especially in contracting youneed just one big, big project.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And that's my dad, yeah.
He's contractor to he's justone of them, travels around the
country, just does whatever hecan do to make money.
You know that.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I mean the contractor .
Money is great though, becauseI mean you can go in and
$200,000 building, I mean sometalking landscape especially now
hydro seeding, yeah, likethere's just so many ways.
That's the thing about, I think, just being an entrepreneur
that you have to grow.
You have to understand, like,how to look at all businesses,
(31:19):
to get inspired, like nobodygood businesses and bad business
Nobody business should belooked at in comparison to yours
.
You should be looking forinspiration because somebody
doing something different thatyou ain't never thought of.
that could probably help you andyour business.
So you can't look up or down onno one's business, and that's
like a mentality I always had,as well as like just always
(31:42):
trying to be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, in the shiny object syndrome too, I mean, you
know you have to stay focusedon what you're doing.
You can't just bounce from onething to the other thing and be
all over the place.
You got to stay focused onthings, which is another reason
I'm like athletes.
I mean you're, you gotschoolwork, tests, all that
stuff, and I dealt with that too.
I went to school for thecreative and form an art.
(32:05):
So we I double major.
I was doing drama and then art.
So I had art projects I had tosit down and just do like you
couldn't, I mean your markerrenderings and things like that,
like you had to actually sitduring school time and do those
projects.
Then, on top of that, you're inthe fifth, sixth grade doing 10
minute Shakespeare monologuesin old English, and I'm
(32:25):
surprised I could barely speakEnglish right.
So I'm like here we go, likeyou know, you got that.
Then you got all your academicclasses on top of that.
I was like going to college andyou're in the fifth, sixth
grade, so I can think of that.
But then I'm like man, ifyou're a college and you're
performing at this high level,the expectations are just it's
(32:46):
crazy.
I mean, you're filling a rosterspot, possibly a scholarship
spot.
You got to perform and you gotyour, your classes, to worry
about.
That's a lot of pressure to beunder.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, it really starts.
Um, they do it at theuniversity, Cincinnati.
Um, and shout out to everyonethat's still there from when I
was there, because there was alot of people on the academic
and sports like support thosesports teams and it really
happens their first year.
Right, If you come in and youwant to party and you want to
(33:24):
let loose, which a lot of 17, 18year olds- do right.
You can quickly fall off of aregiment.
That can help you in long run.
And it's easier when you firststart to get on the program,
with the program then trying todo it your third year there and,
(33:45):
to be honest, if you're stillstruggling with the balancing of
your study tables and all thatstuff by your third year in,
you're just going to be.
You probably are academic andeligible that whole time.
Oh my God, you see what I'msaying so it really starts when
you like a freshman and you knowthe study tables and all those
things.
And then for me, I started offin a major that a lot of my
(34:08):
teammates weren't.
It was only like three of usand I was trying to be a civil
engineer at first, so it wasonly like so many other guys
that were doing that.
I think it might have been twoor three others that were doing
silver engineering or any typeof engineering, and that was
tough.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Because you don't have a circle of people that are
like everybody goes intocriminal justice, right, right,
my, my, I, somebody I was datingback in the day she was getting
her PhD at UC for criminaljustice and everybody was in she
taught you know she, becauseyou're doing your PhD, you have
to teach.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Her entire class was football basketball football,
basketball, yep, and, and that'sgreat Like and one of the best
schools in the country for forthat right now.
But I didn't.
I didn't want to do criminaljustice Like I didn't.
I didn't want to.
I wanted to be a architect,landscape architect or a civil
engineer, build bridges andstuff like that.
So I had to figure out thatfreshman year outside of okay,
(35:05):
the study tables, all that.
If you wanted a tutor, they hadCJ criminal justice tutors,
abundant of them there but whocan help me with stats?
Who can help me with Calc three?
Who can help me with all theseengineering things?
So I had to actually go to theengineering college to get
tutors and stuff like that.
(35:27):
But thank God for the athleticprogram there where they helped
bridge that gap for me.
So they're like hey, listen, heneeds help with this, this and
that.
And I had a tutor my freshmanyear and a couple of classes
that taught me how to study,taught me how to read, cause you
read differently when you'reconsuming large amounts of books
.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Oh, I have probably staying focused when I'm reading
.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, she had to teach me how to study, teach me
how to read, you know.
Teach me how to work so I couldbe efficient, because you know
it's just like going to the gymwhat the school stuff is like.
You got to work that muscle,understand how to do it, so you
don't spend three, four hoursdoing it, you want to just spend
enough time so you can get backto whatever you need to do.
(36:09):
So I mean you had to learn thatstuff.
There's people that just knowhow to study.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
It's crazy, and I think they learn it in their
schools.
I've been out since I public.
So, I would have beencompletely unprepared.
I thought I knew how, but no,yeah not.
These people were real good atI had a couple of friends.
My wife's great at it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I had a couple of friends that were pre-med and
law and it was just like, well,like what, I'm about to go do my
homework, where you guys got togo read and I got a lecture.
I got to read.
Like how much you got to read.
I got to finish this book.
Like the whole book is likeyeah, how long is going to take
you to finish that book?
(36:48):
A couple hours, how?
How do you read?
How do you read that?
So I mean, I took and I alwaysbeen that type of dude I took
and took a speed reading.
Try to learn how to.
Like I said, just the way I'mabout to be, you can't never
look past what someone else isdoing because you might find
(37:08):
some inspiration, that's right.
So somebody tell me they read abook in a couple hours and it
takes me a couple months tofinish a book.
How?
It's like oh, speed reading,what's that?
That's a real thing.
I thought people were justdoing like this.
No, they're actually.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
They're absorbing information faster than my wife
does that speed reading stuff.
It's crazy, it's nuts.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And then it's like oh well, you can gain inspiration
from others, and I think that isanother thing, just being
curious and understanding thatyou not, you can't have no ego
in this.
You got to be.
Yeah, I get the greatest ateverything.
Yeah, you got to.
Yeah, I feel the work, I'm thework, I'm the opposite.
I feel like I'm the worst ateverything and I want to learn
from the people that do itbetter.
That's why I hit you up.
(37:51):
Yeah, man, what's up?
Man, we need to get togetherbecause I know you do great
things and last time we talked,you were talking.
I think you were running forcity council.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
State rep State rep Yep.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Essentially state rep , Essentially just to make this
dude spend money that I wasrunning against because he was
going to win.
But you know, I'm like you getsomebody's got standing his way,
Somebody's got to oppose him,making making prove that he
should be in the spot.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
But in my opinion, like, if you wanted that, you
get it, because I've seen thework you were putting in here
and it wasn't just like you sayit like that on here and it
sounds like it was just, ah,just doing that.
Dude, you had it together Likeyou had a real campaign going.
You had people coming over hereall the time.
I've seen the motion.
Yeah, like oh, I don't knowwhat he's doing.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Like, if you wanted, to, and that was my first time
ever running for anything.
So it was just, you know, oneof the things, and it's like
this is my, this is myneighborhood, like, if you want
to come in here, you're not justgoing to walk into this seat
and nobody else was going tostand up and do anything, you
know, and it was just like Iguess that's me.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Well, I mean, I think , I think it goes it circles all
the way back around just to bein where you from, like you
growing up in the Price Hill.
You know, you know just as wellas me Like it ain't easy to be
where you are right now growingup over there.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Oh, it's tough.
You look back on some of thestuff, the situations I could
have been in the situation Iwasn't, the bad decisions you
can make.
You know I always tell peopleto.
If I go talk to the kids at theschools and stuff.
It's like, look, don't getanybody pregnant when you're
like 12 or 14.
Don't get a felony when you'reyou know there's so many things
like just graduate high school,just get out of high school,
(39:28):
like they don't understand, likehow much of a motivation boost
that is for a lot of kids.
They don't get it, like that'sa.
That's a big challenge for somepeople when you don't have a
support system.
I mean we live in a little onebedroom with four people and in
order for me to study, I wouldgo in a closet, put a pillow
over my ears so I could focus onwhat I was trying to read, just
to get my studying done,because you couldn't go outside.
(39:48):
I mean it was a yeah, what areyou going to do when price is
outside?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I mean you're yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Or, yeah, I mean the library is only open so late, so
you can't really go studyanywhere else.
My school's closed down,because I went to school and
over to run, so it's like youcouldn't.
You couldn't go downtown, andit was just it was.
It was hard, and when you don'thave the proper environment, I
think, for learning, it makes itreally, really tough.
And I think there's a lot ofpeople out there, I mean
(40:15):
especially a lot of people youprobably played ball with.
They came from those kinds ofsituations and you have to learn
so many things that you didn'tknow.
But now you've got a supportsystem, like you said.
Now you've got a tutor, nowyou've got somebody teaching you
how to eat correctly, because Imean that could be a problem
too for people.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I think the other side of that to do item is the
people that was around.
Right Like you can easily,especially like while I'm in
business now like I could stillhang out with a bunch of people
that aren't in business, butit's hard because we don't eat
the same way.
Right Like, we do different.
(40:53):
We do things differently.
So there's always intellectualdifferences that happen, like
where someone thinks a certainway, are they going to do
something a certain way, andyou're like why are you doing it
?
Like that.
It's like, oh well, you'retrained to kind of get up,
that's right.
Yeah, work this day.
I've been trained to not dothat for so long, so it's like
(41:14):
we're not going to see eye toeye.
So keeping the same people,type people around you is like
the most, like invaluable.
Oh, it's crazy Thing you coulddo, because if everyone in that
all 105 of us that you see, notonly was everyone like kind of
cut from the same quote everyonewanted to win, everyone wanted
(41:38):
to win.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Three stars into NFL all pros, I mean it does and the
way you can bring in peoplethat might have felt slighted by
a bigger school.
Your high level three star guymaybe you're 88, 89 Travis was a
quarterback like a two, threestar quarterback out of
Cleveland which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Come in and for this kid to even come to UC as a
quarterback my you, tony Pike,dustin Gruta, chas Anderson,
klares then Mark, those are ourquarterbacks.
You're going to say, I'm goingto come there and play
quarterback.
And you got guys like ChasAnderson and Klares that both
(42:22):
started year before.
You wouldn't see the fielduntil forever.
That's right.
And then the quarterback forhim to come in and you know he
had his ups and downs, whichactually I feel like helped him
out and helped him evolve as anathlete.
But you got guys coming likethat and he was playing
basketball.
Dude, he's a freak.
That's the thing about Travis Alot of people don't know he's
(42:43):
just a gamer Like he's a freakathlete, he's a baller, same
with Jason, just freak athleteslike great athletes, great ball
players, but just tough likenobody.
Nobody was expecting him to bewho they are today.
And that's the thing, man, likewhen you have a group of people
that are all like that, that'swhat happens.
And the cream going rise to thetop every time.
(43:05):
And you got to think to the guysthat push that envelope, the
guys that you know everyone isthe richer halls.
Right, let's go back to AntoinePeaks.
Oh, yes, those guys coming backand you're like, oh, especially
being a guy from here, seeing aguy like rich hall, my freshman
year, telling me as a, as aveteran transfer from Ohio State
(43:28):
, running back, coming here totell me offense alignment, big
fella, move the guy this waybecause I can do this.
Like dude, all the confidencein the world now, like he just
told me that, like, oh my God.
And then you got guys like thatcome in after him butler Benton
, bradley Glathar, your guy fromfrom.
(43:54):
I say a P right, these guys thatjust have this freakish amount
of talent.
You want to be like them too.
So if they out, when in everyrace you're going to try to race
them, I'm out doing sprintsaround yourself with.
I'm racing running backs in mysprint.
I'm not going to win ever.
It might have been a couple ofwalk on running backs that I
(44:15):
might have walked down, tellpeople.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
tell people how big you were then.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
So I was about 300.
20 pounds I'm a little bit morethan that.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Now I need to lose some weight, but I was about
three 15, three 20, six, fiveand a half and you're running
against a six foot five, 10, sixfoot 200 pounder.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
So to fly and like 191.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I had a five flat 40.
So I was pretty quick.
Wow From my size, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
But you got long stride yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I could run and jump real high and stuff like that.
But I would, I would.
I would say I don't want to runagainst the linemen.
It was first like, let me, letme raise some of these D, d
tackles, d hands, yeah.
And then it's like, all right,we're going to raise some
linebackers.
Then the running backs outthere and the wide receivers
like let's race them too.
Then you know you're not goingto win.
(45:03):
But it's the competition.
It's like you know, iron, sharpiron, that's right.
And it's the same in business.
If you surround yourself aroundpeople that are doing better
than you, you can always dobetter, because you're going to
learn.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
sometimes, in order to change yourself, you got to
change your environment 100% all.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Like that's like the biggest invite, like that's the
biggest advice I give anyonetrying to go into business and
really trying to figure out,like, who they should be around
the most, because, like, like Isay, your family loves you, they
don't want you to do this crazystuff.
Like the way starting abusiness is literally insane.
(45:40):
Like just way more easier waysto make money.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
That's yeah, way more easier.
It's the card Uber.
Just go Uber every day, so much.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
It's a better way.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
So your family isn't necessarily going to be the
right people to kind of lean inand lean on, unless you come
from a family of entrepreneurs.
Right Friends usually aren'tgoing to be on that same page
with you because, again, there'seasier ways to do it.
So you got to, you got tobecome a part of those groups,
you got to go to the startup,whatever small business,
(46:13):
whatever chamber commerce,whatever.
You got to just do that overand over and over again and
you'll start finding like, ohwell, this person is good at
this, this person is good atthat, let's get coffee, let's
talk, let's learn.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
They said to you, with a combination of the top
five people in your network,like the top five people you
hang out with the most, that'sthat's where you end up being.
So look at the people aroundyou.
Like what are they doing?
You know, are they?
Do you have people that reachout to you and say, hey, let's
grab a coffee, let's do this?
Are those professional people,you know?
Are those the type of peopleyou want to be like and do stuff
(46:47):
with?
And you know, just as somebodywho you know was part of a team
that started a company, youcould see like the ups and downs
, like you're going to deal withthose things and do you have
the mental fortitude and thesupport system behind you to be
able to get through that and beable to work through that and
say, you know, oh bro, how muchare you making off this, off
(47:08):
this deal?
Only $300 a month.
And be able to brush that offLike, hey, that's cool, whatever
.
Like yeah you know, especiallyif it's somebody who you look up
to right uncle, somebody likethat, who's out here doing this
thing and he's making good money.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Those people's words can really crush you, like they
could really hurt you and peopleyou respect.
And it's like, well, if youhave that community around you
like, hey, listen, and then Imean especially for us, like I
had so many people like that.
And then you know, once youstart branching out and having
(47:42):
those conversations, once youhave some success, then you just
meet better and smarter peopleand then it's just like, hey,
just, you know, hang on.
Like we've been in the middleof closing out a seed round and
it gets shaky Right.
You're waiting for investorcash to come in and you know
trickling in on your customer,you know your revenue coming in,
(48:04):
so you're just running offfumes.
And you got to have somebodythere to say, hey, just hold on.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Like you're blessed to man because you got
developers that are part of theteam, and I think one of the
reasons we were successful is iswe had somebody who was willing
to work for equity and knewwhat he was doing and was
willing to put in those like I'mup till two or three o'clock in
the morning and just grindingcode and stuff.
Like you have to have one ofthe.
If you're a technology star, ifyou got a SaaS business, you
(48:30):
have to have one of those peopleon your, because spending money
on that is crazy, yeah,especially if you don't know
what you're doing.
You got to pivot all the timeand then, going back to a
development team, be like, oh,here, I need to pivot.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
That's why I was so like that's what I'm saying Like
half of it is luck.
You know, in a way, too Like wegot lucky, like Michael skill
set was so great where he's nota full stack developer but he
knew enough to get us where weneeded to go and we knew who we
needed.
So we added, like you said,someone on the team gave them
equity that could help out.
So, since we started ourbusiness, our IP, our you know
(49:05):
data scientists and dataengineers all in house right, we
outsource what we need and wehave partners and strategic
partners in that regard, but wehad those data sciences with us
every day.
So, and what that does for me,someone that does sales and
marketing, I learn.
(49:26):
So it's like, ok, paul, why iswhat you're doing better than
what's out there?
And he can take these hugeideals of data science and
machine learning and break themdown to a way where a football
player can understand them andsay, oh well, when I talk to
customers, this is the value.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
You're trying to distill it from what he's
talking about, because he maynot be the best person to
deliver that message to thecustomer.
Right, he can deliver it to you.
You can take it to still itdown into what you know the
customer is going to want tohear and then deliver it to them
.
Right, and that's a skill thatmost people don't have.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Well, and it's.
It's also finding out how youfit in right Just because you're
not.
You don't have to be adeveloper.
You don't have to be a datascientist to get into tech.
You just have to know whatyou're good at and how that can
apply to a business that is, youknow, a technology business.
And that's what I did.
(50:26):
I didn't, never once, andthat's why our team has been
able to stay together for thelast seven, eight years is
because everyone respects whatthe other founder brings to the
table.
There's never a time whereMichael's like hey, I think I
want you to come over here andrun these Python scripts.
We would not have a business ifwe were doing stuff like that,
(50:50):
right.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Cleal, I need you to go to this event.
Hey, let's send you to Chicagofor this.
Hey, can you go talk to thisperson for this?
You got the chops.
We want you out there.
We want you talking to thesepeople.
That's your value for thiscompany.
That's what you do.
That's the best salespeople aretall people, man.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
So I mean because you're physically like, people
see you, they notice you andthey want to talk to you and you
probably have people come up toyou like you play football.
Yeah, every time.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Every time you play football, if we're if we're
doing an event locally, it'slike the best, especially when
we were having some offensiveline problem.
The Bengals need you, so theBengals do not want me out.
They're not in shape.
I will be tired after the firstthree snaps, Like let the I
don't know, man, the way some ofthem get run over.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
I don't know man, right tackle they throw water.
We have some problems they gettogether man, I like, I like.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
No, they are.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
They're offensive line right now is the best it's
been in a year, man.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Listen, I really like that.
Jackson got out there being alocal guy.
I don't know him personally, Iwatched him play in high school
and he just rough around a rat,but that nastiness that he bring
that.
He got in in the Super Bowl orone of the one of the players
and he drove, block a guy out ofbounds and flexed on him out
and I was like that's what thatline needs.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
We've been.
He came in denigy, like in theBuffalo game.
He held it down.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
That's what I'm saying.
He's a good player.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
It takes two, three years for an offensive line.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah, it takes a long time to get used to.
You got to gel.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Not the individual, not just the individual player.
But then you got and I don'tknow what the hell I'm talking
about, I'm playing football, butfrom what I understand is is
you've got not only does theplayer take two, three years to
really understand the NFL.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, the unit has to move together because you got
certain techniques of you know,back double teams and back steps
and zone steps and movingtogether where you can see that
they got the foundation there.
But people, like I said, peoplewill see me out and be like you
need to play for the banglesand I'm like dude, they ain't
(52:55):
better.
Don't put Joe Burrow behind meright now because I'm telling
you I got two good snaps andthen I want some to eat and I'm
in some Gatorade.
I'm not a football player.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
You should call me on the sideline for me, right.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
I'm not a ball player , no more.
Like I don't have that, no more.
But you're right, and I'm insome ice做 publi個毒 we.
We're good at that as founders.
Like Michael's, a greatvisionary, understands the
artificial intelligence and whathe's trying to pull out of his
brain as far as an analyst andturn into software.
Stevens a whiz when it comes tothe spreadsheets and operations
(53:29):
, and that's something you needfor sure, everyone has their
place, but but think about theway he approaches it.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Michael's going to approach the product and the
customer.
Michael's saying here's theproduct, here's how I think the
customer is going to use it.
You're looking at it from adifferent perspective.
You're probably saying thecustomer has this problem.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
Here's how we need to adapt our stuff to fit what
they have a problem with andit's like OK, a lot of the times
Michael can, Michael can befrom that product side and the
individual that's going to useit.
But how does that matter to thebusiness?
Yes, so helping that person out.
What is the value of it to thebusiness?
(54:12):
And you and I both know if thebusiness can't produce an ROI
off of it, you don't have abusiness.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
You don't have a business.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
So getting into those meetings with that user or that
person that Michael can reallyjail with quickly and they say,
oh, this is brilliant, I've beenlooking for this.
That's nice, Mr Customer, whohas to be here to make these
decisions on this?
Because a lot of the times thatperson can't make that decision
.
So you can get that personhappy or excited, but it's like
(54:42):
how do you sell it to thebusiness?
How do you make make sure thatis the business?
So if I can go talk to yourboss and show them that this is
actually going to generate $25million in the next quarter from
these insights or hey, you gota business question that I know.
If you answer it, you guys cangain $100 million in the next
(55:02):
two quarters.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
That's right For this product.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Why wouldn't you spend $100,000?
You would.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, do whatever you got to do.
I mean that's yeah, you know,you've got that sitting out
there and you got that positive,the potential.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
And that's why me and Michael work well together in
meetings, because I know thathe's coming from the product
perspective and he knows thatI'm always thinking of all right
, how to make the business buyit from us, because I'm like,
okay, so I'm always, and it'slike you got to be a good
listener, you got to listen andunderstand, like what's
(55:35):
important and then understandthe right questions to ask.
But we all have our thing thatwe're good at, but you gel
together and that's I thinkthat's how we did too.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
It was like you had the right team and there's ways
to put together a team now thatI mean you can look at
personality types, you can lookat just psychological.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
We did one of those tests.
It was, I forget, one of theVCs.
How to do one of those?
Was it like an?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Enneagram, or oh was it.
Was it the guys down here?
I think so In.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Covington.
Yeah, it was called Wendell.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, yeah, they were on the show.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
So we did that test and the I forget who came back
was like hey, we looked at yourresults from this and this is
the perfect mixture.
Yes, because you have.
You know, you guys.
You guys both are like me andMichael are both like, super
optimistic, want to do this typeof guys.
And then Steven, steven, morerealists.
(56:27):
I'll call him pessimisticsometimes, but he's more real
yeah but you gotta have that guyto balance those out.
And then, like all the otherpieces of it, it was like oh so,
where this guy isn't good, thisguy's good, this guy's good.
And it's just like when youwork with people for more than
five years, you know I thinkwe're going on eight years now
(56:48):
working together Wow, you becomefamily in a way.
That's right and you know it's.
It's like the perfect storm.
You know, like if someone asksus how we got to where we are
now, first thing we, you knowmost likely we'll say is like
hey, well, we still ain't wherewe want to be first of all.
(57:08):
So don't like, don't look up tous in that regard, because
we're just super humble, likethere's a lot of things that we
want to be better at.
So but I think the number onething for us is just sticking
together and not giving up tooearly and then knowing when to
pivot, because we had a hugepivot.
We had a pivot about a year anda half ago where we switched
(57:31):
from selling our legacy platform, which was this competitive
intelligence tool can kind ofpair you up, benchmark you
against your competitors.
Great product, still veryuseful, but kind of late to the
party.
It was a, it was a nice to have.
We switched from that tobuilding out this trend fire
platform, which we understoodwas a blind spot, and most
(57:53):
organizations across the countrywhen it comes to you know,
trendspotting and forecastingand fortune telling, all that
stuff.
That was real scary because itwas like all right, we're going
to pivot, we're going to do it.
And for us to get through thatit took everyone to just be good
at what they were good at.
And for me, I knew where I wasbad at and I was like all right,
(58:15):
I'm about to learn everything Ipossibly can about machine
learning at a high level so thatI can explain it, because
usually the person that's buyingis like me where they're not an
expert at it, they don't reallyneed to know all the
idiosyncrasies of it, right,because that stuff is super
complex.
Oh yeah, really cool stuff.
(58:36):
And I mean, I mean you could.
You could literally spend ayear trying to learn about it
and still have.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
But the people buying from you, they know.
They know what they don't haveand what they need to have and
what's going to give them thatedge in the industry.
I mean forecasting and and Imean there's.
There's so many different waysyou could do it, so many ways
you could do it wrong, or just,you know, take a shot in the
dark kind of thing.
Is what really what people donow?
(59:04):
Right, there's no real solutionreally, until you guys came out
that can say, look, we couldtell here's where we're getting
this information from, here'show we're putting this together.
It's, it's, it's.
You have more confidence.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
It's funny we went to .
Did you go?
To signal the PNG event thatthey just had recently?
Speaker 2 (59:27):
I didn't.
Yeah, I was too busy.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
They had the CMO of McDonald's there.
Oh she said something reallyinteresting that really stood
out about how they're asking.
Like you know, mcdonald's ishistorically always in marketing
crushing it right.
Good commercials, oh yeah, goodmessaging they do a really good
job, but it was like a lot moresuccess recently and then like
(59:52):
the grimace shake and all thatstuff.
So it was like perfect time forher to talk about some of those
things.
But one of the things that shesaid that stood out to me was
given letting our people to havethat creative confidence.
And how do you have thatcreative confidence behind your
idea or whatever?
You need data, you need youneed to understand that your
(01:00:13):
decision isn't just some wildidea that might work yeah.
Some mad scientist and it don'twork like that anymore.
Out here there's so much data,there's so much, there's so many
data points that thesebusinesses have that they can
make decisions off of.
But sometimes there's blindspots and we figured out like,
(01:00:34):
hey, we can provide this blindspot when it comes to trans
spotting or understanding thatcultural, you know, societal,
economic behavior behind thesetrends online.
That's that sweet spot that Iwas talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Well, when you get in a room in your brain storm with
a bunch of the creatives I meanI've been in plenty of those
meetings you know there can beroom split right, like you got
guys like oh, I think this.
The lady that's like Yo, Ithink this.
And how do you?
How do you solve those debates?
How do you come to a conclusionand come up with something
that's going to work Right?
It's just days of hey.
I got this, I got that, justdata.
Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
And it usually bought , like those conversations you
saw right.
Then it's two things that youdo now.
Now we're going to AB test itand it's like, hey, we're not
trying to change anything aboutthat, Because I think that that
way of doing things whenespecially come to marketing
still a great way of doing it.
We just want to make thatsmarter.
Let's make your AB test alittle bit smarter.
Let's take it another level andsay, hey, you're elevating
(01:01:32):
these ideas.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Like it's not just hey, I've got this idea, I think
it's ready to go, I think thisis great, Sounds good.
Wait a minute, you can takethat to the next level, yeah.
Or use it early in the processto help develop the ideas.
And because I mean you'll getsparks of information.
You'll get sparks of ideas fromjust looking at that
information it gives you.
(01:01:53):
It's almost like if you're apainter sitting there looking at
a blank canvas versus maybethere's a sketch outline on
there already for you, you knowand then just being able to go
over top of that.
That's kind of what it is in away.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Yeah, and the difference is some places have
better painters than others.
Some painters have differentstyles.
It's really up to that personmaking the decision how good or
great or bad it could be basedoff of their skill level.
So that's super interesting,though, and I think the main
(01:02:29):
thing, it's a fun category to bein.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
It really is.
Yeah, you're dealing withpeople that are coming up with
ideas and trying to make theircompanies better and make things
better for the consumer at theend of the day, and it's a cool
thing to be in.
And I mean, you guys are outhere, you're raising around
right now.
You know, if somebody's outhere listening to the podcast
and they want to learn moreabout what you guys are doing,
give them the URL, the websitethey can go to.
Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
You can check our website out.
It's wwwnitchfirecom.
That's N-I-C-H-E-F-I-R-E, Allone word firecom.
You can reach out to medirectly, Khalil E.
I'm pretty sure you'll put myinformation on the pot so people
can find me on social mediaLinkedIn, Instagram threads.
Follow me on threads, KhalilE513 on threads.
(01:03:15):
I'm always on there, but reachout to us, man, we love to talk
to you.
If it's just to just ask aboutmachine learning and AI, just
reach out to us.
Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Things are constantly changing and people are super
interested in that technology.
So, yeah, guys, so check himout.
And Khalil, thanks a lot forbeing on the show.
Appreciate you.
Adam, all right, thanks forjoining us on this week's
episode of Side Hustle City.
Well, you've heard from ourguests.
Now let's hear from you.
Join our community on Facebook,side Hustle City.
It's a group where people shareideas, share their
(01:03:47):
inspirational stories andmotivate each other to be
successful and turn their sidehustle into their main hustle.
We'll see you there and we'llsee you next week on the show,
thank you.
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