96 - Image consultant Melanie Lippman explains the rules of fashion - The Flirty Vegan

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hey ladies, my name is Jenny Chaffetz and I am the host of
Sideline Sisters. Are you a busy mom, powerhouse
professional or high achieving go getter?
This show is for no BS women whowant to be inspired to get off
the sidelines of their lives. Ever feel like you're playing
small or safe or just on autopilot?

(00:23):
My guests are relatable women who've gone on a journey,
overcome challenges, and live toshare the lessons that we want
to hear. These conversations will be
funny, sad, scary, wise, encouraging, and most of all,
real. So whether you're driving, doing
chores, exercising, walking the dog, or just laying on the

(00:45):
couch, settle in and enjoy. I want to invite you to take
back your power, reignite your passions, and step off the
sidelines. Let's go.
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Sideline
Sisters Podcast. My name is Jenny Chaffetz.
I am your host and I am so excited about all the changes in

(01:06):
my world. I'm talking about my business,
my podcast, and my general disposition in life.
So in case you missed it, I'm a vegan.
And while I don't say that to put myself in a box with a
label, but there is something helpful about a box with a
label, like when you go to buy shoes or a box of pasta, Those

(01:29):
are cases where boxes with labels are helpful.
So to be in the box labeled as avegan is definitely a
proclamation to the world. And it's one that I'm OK with in
this situation because it's so important to me.
Now, in case you haven't heard my story before, I was not
always a vegan. I would venture to say that the
majority of us walking around, we're not born into this way of

(01:52):
being. I know one person, one person
who was actually born a vegan and raised by vegan parents and
nurtured in that environment. But for the rest of us, we came
to it because we were struck by something.
Perhaps it was a personal or loved ones health crisis.
Maybe you were exposed to some heartbreaking stories of animal

(02:17):
agriculture. You saw a documentary
illustrating the horrors of it. Or perhaps, like myself, it was
a harsh realization that the trajectory of planet Earth is
not good. So what started for me as an
environmental issue, simply because I saw an innocent
documentary about wildlife on planet Earth.

(02:40):
And by the way, I never considered myself an
environmentalist, ever. Like ever.
What would started off that way very quickly became an animal
welfare issue to me and much later became a health issue to
me. And so the beauty of this
lifestyle is that it honors and supports all of those things.

(03:02):
I can actually take care of myself and hopefully prevent
health hardships and I can also avoid harming the animals and
the environment. Doesn't that just sound amazing?
So I say all this with so much joy inside me because I am
completely rebranding to align with my values.

(03:25):
And with that, I want to invite you to take me up on a very
exciting offer that I'm presenting, which is a free
introductory coaching session with me, your friendly
neighborhood vegan lifestyle coach, to talk about this way of
being. Because I'm going to guess that
quite a lot of you have thought about veganism.
You've heard people talk at the gym, you read an article online,

(03:48):
you saw a social media post. Frankly, you're seeing a lot of
packaging mentioning plant based.
So it's out there. You've considered it, but you
have also come up with a lot of really good excuses to avoid it.
It's true, going vegan is a challenge.
In most cases it's doing something different from the

(04:09):
rest of your friends, neighbors,coworkers, family.
A lot of the restaurants you normally visit don't cater to
vegan and values. Somehow people have led you to
believe that it's more expensive, more prep work, more
cooking, more doing. But look, it's simply not true.
And that's why I want to get on a call with you to hear your

(04:30):
concerns and let you know what'svalid and what isn't.
Because I'll be honest, The social stuff, that's valid.
The teasing and tormenting from your loved ones, that's valid.
But the cost, the prep, the complexity of shopping and
cooking? No.
Nope. Sorry, Sorry, not sorry.

(04:51):
Not valid. So that's what I want to do as
your coach. Simplify it.
Break it down to manageable steps and I want to cheerlead
for you. I want to teach you.
I want to support your concerns.Because let me tell you, if you
have a thought of going vegan because you want to have the
healthiest body, the healthiest vessel imaginable, because you

(05:15):
know too many people who have suffered with cancer, stroke,
diabetes, skin issues, hair issues, sleep issues.
I assure you that a plant based lifestyle is the only way of
eating that has been scientifically proven to
increase longevity and vitality.Because who wants to live

(05:36):
longer? If it's crappier, what is the
point? We want to live long and thrive.
We want to be playing, having fun, doing the sports and
activities that you enjoy doing now for years to come.
You want to be able to travel, engage with people, do basic
chores. I mean, nobody wants to do
chores, but you want to be able to do them right?

(05:58):
Like carry a load of laundry andsweep, mow the grass.
These are things you're able to do well into old age when you
have a healthy body. So I can help you look and feel
better than you ever have before.
And the side benefits of eating plants for your body are that
you save animals, millions of animals, from a life of

(06:23):
confinement, torture and slaughter and you do better for
the environment. And it is not a hippie dippie
cavalier college student perspective to care about the
environment. It's real, it's real.
So please check the show notes and book a free coaching call
with me. You have nothing to lose.
Plus, when you book that free call, you will get a three day

(06:45):
meal planner that includes 3 days of three meals each, plus
snacks, plus helpful tips. So all that for just booking the
free call. So in the coming weeks, as I
wrap up this lovely fashion and image series, I will make my way
to a huge milestone of 100 episodes.

(07:06):
And starting with episode 101, you will see a change.
The whole mood of this podcast will reflect the values that I
hold so dear, and I hope you'll stay with me because my guests
are still going to be phenomenal.
And after 100 episodes, I might actually start to interview some

(07:27):
brilliant, kind gentlemen, and I'm excited to branch out to
that. But this show will still be
about profound stories, relatable people, challenges,
resilience, inner strength, wisdom and evolution.
Because like I said, most veganscame to this way by choice.

(07:49):
Because we, including myself, evolved in some way.
We saw the world differently andadjusted.
And let me be clear, being veganis a joyful, beautiful,
compassionate way to live. In all my years of dieting and
binge eating, I have never eatenso plentifully, so deliciously.

(08:13):
I have never tasted food with such excitement and curiosity.
Because when I was eating cookiedough, candy bars and point
friendly microwavable dinners, it was very predictable.
But now I sit down to a meal with childlike wonder.
It's exciting to taste food thatI know is nutrient dense and

(08:36):
designed for vitality and longevity.
So I thank you for tuning in allthis time and I really hope you
will continue with me. Now let me get into today's
episode with my friend Melanie Lipman.
Melanie is a New York based image consultant and personal
branding expert. She works with women in
leadership to stop the stress and overwhelm of getting dressed

(08:57):
that holds women back from achieving next level visibility.
She defines their personal brandstyle in a way that makes
clients instantly recognizable, memorable, and seen.
As a leader, Melanie feels that when you are confident about how
you present yourself, you can show up and conquer anything the
day brings you. Doesn't that sound amazing?
I mean, come on, listeners, how many of you struggle with

(09:20):
getting dressed? Like, try on a bunch of things,
hate everything, feel ugly, feelfat?
Remember things you were told throughout life?
Like, Oh no, you can't wear horizontal stripes or no white
after Labor Day. In fact, don't wear white at all
because you look like crap. All these things.
It's such a head game, and Melanie breaks it down for us

(09:43):
because clothes don't have to bethis angry force that we battle
every day. So let's get into the
conversation with Melanie Lippmann.
Welcome Melanie Lippmann to the Sideline Sisters podcast.
It's so good to see your face. I'm so happy to be here.

(10:03):
I feel like it's been forever since we were hanging out in
Palm Beach together, but such islife.
Still watch your dancing video? No, no, no, no, no.
Melanie is referencing a karaokeparty that we went to that
really does not need to be remembered by anyone.

(10:27):
So let's just set that aside forright now.
Good times. That's all.
All right. I am thrilled to have you on
this show because what woman doesn't like fashion or, you
know, have a little part of her intrigued by fashion?
And many of us don't have any clue about it.

(10:53):
Or, you know, there's that line from When Harry Met Sally when,
what's her name, Princess Leia says.
Everyone thinks they have a sense of humor and style, but
not everyone does. And so I feel like that that
line, it's it's like a little like fork prong on my skin every

(11:17):
time I think of it because I'm like, why that woman who has no
style but thinks she does or really wants it but doesn't know
how to find it. So we're going to get into
talking about style and the complexity of it because you are
a very fashionable woman. You are like the epitome of

(11:38):
style to me. So let's begin.
Let's let's start with how did you get into fashion styling?
Well, it's sort of very young I.Mean like like playing with
Barbies and fashion plates. Even more so.
OK my family had an accessory store when I was born so I

(12:00):
literally was the little girl inthe playpen in in this accessory
store. So I and my mom sold like
vintage clothes in the 80s. So like think like furs and
heels. So I was like fully immersed
from a very young age. So a lot of women say like I,
I'm born without the fashion Jean or like that you can skip

(12:22):
to me like I am the fashion Jean.
So I was very, very quickly surrounded by clothing, jewelry,
all of that. And I played dress up from a
very, very young age on myself. So like there's literally
there's this picture of me that I sometimes will show in master
classes and I think I'm wearing probably like 40 necklaces at

(12:43):
once. Nice, so you didn't hear that
message from Coco Chanel yet? Like take something off.
Yeah, no, that was not me whatsoever.
So it's definitely something that is in my blood.
That being said, it's something that I struggle with or have
struggled with my whole entire life and being a coach, it's

(13:07):
something that I continue to struggle with.
So while even it could be something that is in our blood,
it's not something that always comes naturally because the way
that we dress ourselves actuallyis an extension of our identity.
And so we are sending a message to ourselves and to everyone
else of how we see ourselves. So when there isn't clarity or

(13:29):
when they we are not feeling good about ourselves, we can use
clothes as armor, we can use clothes to hide, we can use
clothes to pretend we're someoneelse, we can close clothes to
prove something. So clothes aren't just a
material object. There's a lot of things that are
tied into clothing, which is whyso many women struggle to get

(13:50):
dressed. Right there, like thank you for
the mic drop as we start the conversation because right,
right in this moment, I feel like women just got a like a
weight lifted from their shoulders of wait, it's, it's
not my fault or it's there's not, like you said, a gene

(14:14):
missing or I didn't miss that class in elementary school that
told me how to best fit my body.Or, you know, I read the wrong
magazine or, you know, all the messages that we received.
It's so interesting to to think of clothes that way.
And I have to say, I get on the phone with highly intelligent

(14:36):
women. Just this week, I had a
conversation with a woman who started working with me.
She's a doctor, and she was a position in the military.
And so she wore a uniform duringthe very beginning of her
professional career. And she now is 55 years old, and
she has kids. And she literally says to
herself constantly, I am smart, why can't we figure this out?

(14:59):
What is wrong with me? And so as women, we constantly
are punishing ourselves. We're not getting it right.
And here's the thing, those magazines that we like, loved so
much when we were younger, like Wyan and Cosmo.
Do you remember what the messages said about clothing?
I'll tell you if you don't. Remember, I mean, I I can think
of so many like it. It depended on your shape.

(15:21):
Or don't do this, don't do that.It was all yeah body.
Focus how to look taller and thinner how to my body is wrong
clothes are closed them yes and as you I both know from coaches
we're not broken we don't need. To be fixed, especially by
clothes. Especially by clothes.
So that interesting right there is what is wrong with the

(15:43):
fashion industry and then layer on a really judgmental mom,
aunt, all of that who doesn't love their body and has I mean,
I grew up with tab and diet culture and go to going to
Weight Watchers when you were 12, like is that normal and all
of that? You know what Melody from From

(16:05):
my conversations with women. Unfortunately, that is normal.
While it you know, I know as coaches we're not supposed to
use the word should, but I will say right here and now that
should not be normal. But it's kind of like, hey, you
know, you're going to be on thisroller coaster with me as
opposed to let me teach you how to love your body and how to

(16:27):
like enjoy food and have no, let's bring you to Jenny Craig
when you're 11 and can't wait every day sort of thing.
And then let's put middle schooland high school and all of that
of like, you're not wearing the cool girl thing and shame and
blame and all of that. So those are all of our

(16:49):
foundational thoughts and feelings about clothes.
So no wonder it's so hard to getdressed as a 50 year old woman.
Right. Yeah, I I feel like you just
summed up my entire life in thatone statement.
Beautiful. Thank you.
I think we're done here. Just kidding.
That's great that you had early influence in a positive way of

(17:14):
having fun with clothes and accessories, but being a real
person who lived in the real world with external influence,
Magazines, peers, television, billboards, all of it.
How did you get through it? How?
How did you balance or or weave together the messages from your

(17:39):
family or your mom about the lightness of fashion versus all
that other stuff, the diet culture and magazine rules,
things like that? It's still work in progress
because the mom was the one who also was showing me the

(17:59):
lightness and the fun, but also brought the diet culture.
So it's kind of, you know, as all of our moms do, you're the
most beautiful person. And then we're all here have a
tab sort of thing. So what ended up happening is,
and this is what happens with somany women.
So what I always will start a conversation with women about is

(18:20):
like, tell me when getting dressed is fun.
Like what did you love wearing when no one gave shit?
Like what did you wear when no one had an opinion and you
didn't give a crap? And it who?
Can even remember. Right.
You can't basically, but there could be like a little blip of
like, I remember I like dresses.Or was that favorite I remember?
There was a picture and by the way, I didn't remember that

(18:41):
moment of wearing the heels. There's a picture of it.
I do remember like in Venezuela wearing like a, a strawberry
bikini also probably because there's a big picture of it as
well. But like, when did you enjoy
that? Because probably at 10 it
stopped because then you got boobs like and then like then
your body was wrong and we need to cover it and make it

(19:02):
different. So I went through this whole
entire, I would say even till now, I still have moments I need
to coach myself of using clothesin order to cover my body, to
use this camouflage to hide my big boobs in my big butt.
So when I entered the corporate world, I was like black blazer

(19:25):
Navy. This is what success looks like.
Let's just use armor, corporate armor.
Let's do this. Let's prove I need a Chanel bag.
Dad, what's that like? Let's just buy all of these
things because it was all doing through a sense of judgement and
proving I needed these things tobelong.
And let's like talk about it as well in like Jewish communities,
like there's a lot of material objects that people have to use

(19:48):
as an, an entry point. Like if you like, I remember, I
remember my first Kate Spade bag.
I remember my first Prada bag. So I was indoctrinated into this
consumption. So meaning that my material
items meant more than I did actually.
Yeah, I mean, my daughter talks about how, I mean, she's 18 now,

(20:09):
but when she was going to Israela couple years ago on a group
trip, we were buying all kinds of things for her to travel on
a, you know, an extended trip without parents.
And so this was peak Lululemon belt bag moment.
So she had asked about getting abelt, but you know, whatever you

(20:33):
wanted to call it, a crossbody or a the Fanny pack over the
shoulder. As I.
As I like to view it, she wantedsomething so that when they were
out and about, instead of carrying a big ugly backpack,
something a little more appropriate.
So we're not very brand conscious in our house.

(20:54):
So she immediately said to me like, just go on Amazon and get
me like to see what you can findis, is there like a Lululemon
knockoff? And I found something I showed
her the the pictures. It was very sensible, lots of
pockets, right size, all that. So I get it for her.
She loves it, loves it. Like where's it ever?

(21:18):
I just had to get her a new bag to say like, in case you want to
take a break from that one that has been like beaten to death,
like literally tossed around a desert and, and all that.
She said she was the only one onthat trip that did not have the
same Lululemon belt bag. And people commented to her that
they liked hers. It was a little bit different,

(21:41):
you know, slightly different shape and size.
And I tried to talk to her aboutit saying, you know, did it
bother you not having the same one?
What was there a an inferiority or a sense of lack because you
were different? Luckily she didn't give a shit
and still doesn't need that typeof validation.

(22:05):
But it it just struck me as every single girl on that trip
had the exact same fucking bag. God forbid someone stepped out
of that bowling lane to try something different.
Yeah, and I mean, like, I would have been the person crying to
you saying you need to. I don't care that I'm in another

(22:26):
country. I don't care how much it cost.
I need that bag because I belonghere if I don't have it.
And like, that's what belonging is.
It was like we were taught the different is not good.
And it's such like a tribal culture.
And that is where so many of thethings that kind of have shaped

(22:46):
how I saw our clothing. And I even know like it comes up
for me sometimes it comes up forclients.
Is that like we get an invitation to something and then
we're so like, what is everyone else going to wear?
What's the dress code like? You know, so like, like at the
moment, my nephew's getting married in Tabo and it's in
November. And I do have those moments of

(23:08):
like, Melanie, you're not shopping for this.
Like, like, like there is this like tug sometimes that we need
to go and like buy thy thing in order for have the enjoyable
time. Because if we're not wearing the
right thing, we're going to feelostracized and not belong and
we're going to have a horrible time sort of thing.
So there's this like pull of again, identity embodiment.

(23:29):
Who am I when it comes to clothes as well?
And if you don't have the quote,UN quote, right car, right bag,
right shoe, Sorry you're not oneof us.
Sorry to interrupt this incredible interview, but I have
to tell you guys about vegan lifestyle coaching.
Veganism is my passion. Yes, you've heard me say that,
but so is health and helping people feel their best.

(23:52):
We have become so complacent andtolerant of feeling crappy that
it's mind blowing. And we have also accepted that
we are all going to grow old andget sick.
That mentality has to stop because it's not true.
It doesn't have to be the inevitable course, whether
you've strongly thought about going vegan or it's just kind of

(24:15):
come up in passing, doesn't matter.
I would love the opportunity to get on a call with you to hear
what's stopping you from going all the way and see if we can
strategize together because thisreally is the healthiest, most
joy filled, abundant way of eating and living.
So be sure to check the show notes and you'll see a link to
book this free call. Share it with your friends.

(24:35):
And now let's get back to the episode.
You know, it's interesting though, because I feel like
there's a tug. It's a tug of war really,
because on one side there is theI need the right bag to fit in.
I need. And believe me, I felt more
aligned with you than my daughter when I was growing up.

(24:55):
It was like, I need that Benetton rugby.
However, I wanted the green, notthe blue because everyone had
the blue. So on the other side of that
rope, you know, there's wanting desperately to fit in on one
side, but on the other there is that pull toward individuality
or wanting to stand out and not just be part of the herd.

(25:17):
So it's so tricky for we're going to limit this to girls and
and grown up girls and women with wanting to fit in, wanting
to stand out and using clothes as a means to do that.
And the, the main thing that always comes from is where is

(25:38):
this coming from? So the number one thing that I
always do with clients at the very beginning is I, I ask a
bunch of questions and like an intake of tell me about your
childhood when it came to clothing.
Tell me about your childhood when it came to getting dressed.
Tell me about it when it came toshopping, because they'll
quickly realize that a lot of the things that are coming up

(26:01):
have been driving the car that they don't even realize whether
it's we didn't have a lot of money growing up, so clothes
weren't a priority. And I shopped the sale rack.
And therefore I still buy the sale rack.
And I don't really like what I have because I don't see myself
worthy as investing. Like there's something that's
coming up that's driving the show that we don't even realize
when it comes to it. And from there, it's not like a

(26:22):
place of like, oh, let's go to therapy for 45 years in order to
like solve this. But it's just like a huh, that
is my story that I keep relivingand reliving and reliving.
How do I want to change? How do I want to be different?
And then basing it in values so it doesn't have to feel vain or
like this is what's cute or what's trendy.

(26:43):
It's like, no. So something that's really
important to me is I like thingsthat are high quality and I want
them to last a long time. Therefore, me buying these
random one off pieces that are on sale that I don't really like
actually isn't aligned with my values.
So it's just kind of a when we have that interplay, it makes it
so clothing doesn't feel vain. It feels like it's more it's

(27:06):
helping you be more you. Do you have anything from your
past that a rule or a an assignment that stuck with you
of don't wear that because you don't look good in it or never
choose that color, that style that doesn't suit you?

(27:27):
Do you have any of those? That have like a million of them
and I hear them from clients allthe time.
So like just yesterday I was on I was interviewed for ATV
interview, had to dress for interviews on ATV interview and
I was like virtually and I wore all white in my head.
I was already hearing wasn't necessarily me, but I already

(27:48):
heard people being like, who areyou to wear all fucking white?
I'm not wearing all white. Like white in our mind is like
you make you look heavy, like oryou can't wear white.
There's so many rules when it comes to like what the print
like we have all of these rules.So like I know whenever I, I go
and wear white, I almost need tolike coach myself of like I wear

(28:09):
white, actually monochromatic, like all white, because what we
notice is we notice the lighter area.
So if you're wearing white jeansand a light black top, your,
you, your legs will look bigger because like color recedes and
you're growing more attention there.
So there's like things like that.
And then I also have feel like Ihave, there's a lot of a

(28:30):
judgement I feel that I had growing up of like, who the hell
does she think she is? So I know when a lot of the
clothes that I like are very feminine and very different.
So I do feel like there is kind of both, both things are going
on in my head of like, who the fuck do you think you are?

(28:51):
And where does that come from? Did some like, have you figured
that out? Did someone ever say to you like
Melanie, tone it down like it's not the Melanie show Or you
know, like what? What does that?
So when I was younger, so literally, it's funny because
like I'm talking to my therapistabout this tomorrow because it
came up last week at the very end of the session.

(29:15):
We're out of time. Can you forget like, why don't,
can you draw? Can you cross that off your page
like white out? And I have some for you.
One of my core younger memories from when I was little is we
were in Venezuela on vacation and there was a guy playing the
piano. And I remember it was just when

(29:38):
I started taking dance lessons. So I was dancing all over the
lobby because that's what one does when they are 6 and there
is a piano player. The piano player stopped.
Everyone clapped for them and meand I started curtsying and I
was told they were clapping for him and not for you.

(29:59):
Wow, that's like Bing. I love.
I mean, I love that you have that realization.
Oh, it took like a weird Tony Robbins like thing to get me
there. Like, I forgot that.
But that's my first memory in childhood.
And so it's a constant fight in myself because I am.

(30:20):
And like, even like my therapistwill say is like, you have so
much light and you have so much joy and you have something.
But there is there's judgment. Yeah, like you're carrying it
like it's on. Like I was doing like some
fascia work and the woman's likeyou have that shit on your back.
Like you literally you, you havethis turtle show with you, like
what is going on And there's so much of that like fruit.

(30:42):
Like I still with approving stuff.
Yeah. And it happens like it.
And we all have a story that's like that.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, I haven't taken the
time to try to go way back, but I, it's funny that you brought
up white because I think I mighthave told you this when we first
met that I, someone in my life who I won't villainize right

(31:03):
now, publicly told me I never wear white.
It's not your color. I was wearing.
I still remember it was the j.crew white cable knit cotton
sweater. You know, I think I had it in
three colors, as did everybody else, because that was, that was
one of those lanes I was stuck in, but I had it in white.
And the person said, don't ever wear white.

(31:25):
It's not your color. It just doesn't suit you.
It washes you out. It makes you look fat.
And then shortly after that time, so this was I was an adult
at that point, I was getting married and I sure as shit
wasn't wearing white Melanie, like not pure white.
The person told me I look terrible and white.

(31:45):
So bridal store. What else you got for me because
someone said I can't wear white.So find me cream, find me ivory,
find me champagne, find me something that's not white.
And it's like, God, one person had a lot of power.
And we make, we make everything mean something, right?

(32:08):
It's so interesting because we, you know, we don't make mean
anything a compliment. Yeah.
Like there's such a negativity bias that we all live by because
we're afraid to get it wrong. We're afraid to wear egg on our
face and all of that. And I, you know, so many times,
interestingly enough, like clients will come to me with a
story very similar to yours and they're literally, they're

(32:30):
driving, they're literally driving that car.
The story and funny enough is that I went to the client and
she was telling me how she can'tlike we were talking about
something. And one of the things that I
have my clients too, is just to put together some things that
intrigue them, not necessarily that they're going to wear, but
like, let's start to kind of putpiece some things together.
And I was noticing that there was a, a bunch of like florals

(32:53):
in the backgrounds of things like I'm, I'm really good at
what I do. Let me toot my own horn.
So she wasn't picking floral clothes, but there were florals
in the background of every single thing that she was
picking. And I'm like, there's something
to this floral. What is going on?
And she's like, I can't wear florals.
I'm like tell me more and she's like well my sister made fun of
me once and I had a floral top and she said how girly it was

(33:17):
and she hated it like and all ofthis stuff but so it wasn't I
don't like floral. My sister didn't like floral on
me. Fast forward a few weeks cause
her I put something in her brainand she went and she spoke to
her sister about it. Her sister wanted her shirt.
So all these years. After all of these years, this

(33:38):
woman is like secretly putting florals in the ground of things
she likes, afraid to wear a floral with to truck floral on.
And because of something that someone made mean something that
meant crap #1 or #2 when someonesays something to us, it means
nothing about us. And it's everything about them.
So like she's concerned about wearing white, not you.

(33:58):
And by the way, white was so so much better on using cream.
Sorry. Like you're a winter you can
wear white. I did love my wedding dress, I
will say, but who knows? I didn't even try white, but
it's fine. It's just, it's so interesting
that it, it took me until a few years ago to be able to say, oh,
I think I'm going to buy a whiteT-shirt or a white puffy coat or

(34:24):
something like do I get to wear white now?
Can I make that choice for myself?
Yeah, you can. Yeah.
So how, how do you help people get over it?
How do you, you know what, what?What do you do?
A lobotomy? No, I'm just kidding.
Right. Who do you recommend?

(34:45):
So I was what you would think oflike as a quote UN quote
personal stylist for a really long time.
So I would do like what you would think of.
You know, I went to stylist school.
I went to FITA, which is where Iactually got my bachelor and
associates degree and got a degree in image consultation,
color consultation. And the services that I would
provide were more of shop your closet.

(35:08):
We'll do a closet edit shopping for you outfit creation.
And what would end up happening is I do all this work with all
of these women and this is the same thing.
If you go and hire a personal shopper or personal stylist,
they're going to do what I did before.
So what ends up happening is I would have a few conversations
with these women and I would make a lot of assumptions as one

(35:30):
does, besides the fact of like, I'm going to, you're going to
tell me you're a lawyer and I'm going to need a bunch of block
boys, which is cool. But also like I'm going to be
like, well, I know more than you.
So therefore you would look better in this and this and that
and that. And So what ends up happening is
I would recommend a bunch of stuff that they would be bought
in in because number one, they would be like, oh, she's the
expert and #2 they're like, that's good.

(35:53):
I'm on board sort of thing. Like they'd get excited about
it. But what ends up happening is
like 3 weeks later I'd get a phone call and be like, I'm
going to speak on a panel. What should I wear?
I'm like, what gives? We put together like 30 outfits.
Like did you gain 50? Like what happened?
Right, right. And you'd have a closet full of
clothes now. You have a closet full of
clothes. You did before, but now you have

(36:13):
a closet full of outfits and getlike a litany of it's too edgy.
I'm not ready yet, my husband. And so I realized a few things
that were happening was number one, I would see themselves and
they would paint themselves as this woman who already was

(36:34):
showing up as her that has already done the work.
Like, oh, I'm getting new clothes.
They might as well get clothes that I really, really like and
enjoy. They just didn't catch up yet
because the old stories are still running the show.
They haven't been. They haven't been deleted from
the the brain. Just because you hung out with
me for three hours and all of a sudden I gave you a false sense

(36:54):
of confidence. Friends.
Also, they were my idea, not heridea.
So during the pandemic, as we all did, is I found personal and
professional development and I became obsessed with coaching
and had my own coaches, life coaches, you know, started, you
know, the gateway drug is alwaysTony Robbins.

(37:15):
And then we find like, well, he's really masculine.
Let's find some women to listen to.
And I found a neuro coaching certification, which not only
was the shift of the identity, but also figuring out what are
the habits that are holding you back and how to spot them and to
rewire them. And so I was doing this for

(37:36):
myself and I was like, Oh my God, this is like the missing
link of what my clients actuallyneed to make sure that we are
dealing with a bad habits in theold stories that all that are
part of that identity work. So there's that aspect of it.
And then the other thing is I also like went to quote UN quote

(37:58):
coaching school where I learned how to walk alongside of someone
and to help them and to help pull things out of them and show
them their blind spots and give them ideas and show them
patterns. But it was always their idea,
right? Where if you're hiring a
personal stylist, it ain't your idea, it's their idea and then

(38:21):
they're putting it on you. They are not skilled enough to
#1 see where your blind spots are and show you where you may
be playing small or hesitating because they're not trained to
listen for, you know, language patterns or hey, I've heard the
story 4 times for me. I'm going to call you on your
shit. As opposed to be like not
believing like that story. I'm like, oh, you don't want to

(38:42):
wear black anymore? OK, sure.
As opposed to me where I'm like,you're saying one thing, but
you're doing something different, What's gives?
And to go a little bit deeper. So it really is the culmination
of the the neuro coaching and also the coaching itself.
So because the women that I workwith are highly intelligent,
unless it's their idea, they're not doing.
It Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think of in any aspect

(39:06):
of our lives, we could listen topodcasts or watch videos or read
books on home remodeling, decluttering, any, any hobby we
could read about. And it sounds great.
It worked for that many people. But if it doesn't jive with you,

(39:27):
you know, painting might be really therapeutic.
But if you don't like painting, that's not the hobby for you.
Exactly. And then also, we're in a time
period where there's so much information out there, like
there's actually too much information.
And we all love information, butwhat we actually need to do is
start doing something with the. Effort.
Yeah. We all love to collect.

(39:49):
I mean, I think about the numberof saved things, saved videos,
saved posts in my Facebook, the number of recipes I RIP out of
magazines. There's so much stuff that we
collecting and hoard. Mm.
Hmm. But like you said, we have to
actually go through and decide. Why did I pull that recipe for

(40:13):
some elaborate dinner party on the back patio surrounded by
lilac bushes? That's not my life.
Also because like going back to the childhood thing is what was
great when we did play dress up is we weren't afraid of making
mistakes. So we tried ridiculous things.

(40:34):
So one of the biggest things that's missing right now from
getting dressed is you keep wearing the same thing over and
over again and buying the same thing over and over again and
you think you're going to get a different results.
But what's the definition of insanity?
You're not getting a different result.
So what we need to do is be morein the experimentation phase.
So that's why when I start working with clients, it's not
like, oh, let's buy 75 differentpieces of clothing.

(40:57):
What are the three things that we can buy?
And I need you to start wearing them.
And I need you to tell me how you're feeling in them.
So for people listening, who are, you know, heart racing
brain is is dialing like crazy as they're thinking, this is me.
Yep, I've got all my stories andthey're they're starting to
actually remember moments and phrases that they've carried

(41:21):
with them forever. Like my don't wear white.
It's not your color. What can you say to them to
prevent them from going into their closet with a box of Hefty
garbage bags and discarding everything?
Don't do it. 'Cause I feel like I, I mean,

(41:41):
and I and I minimized and decluttered a few years ago, so
I don't even have the wardrobe that I once had.
But I'm already thinking, like you said, I bought that same
tank top because I thought it was a good shape, I thought it
was a good style, and I bought it in black, white and Gray as a
layering piece with those 3 cardigans.

(42:02):
But one, I don't even typically wear any of it. 2.
Is it even my style? Do I look good in it?
Do I like those things? So even though I don't have as
big of a wardrobe as a lot of women, I'm tempted to now go in
and ransack everything. Mm hmm.

(42:22):
So the first thing that we need to do is actually figure out
what your style is and what flatter you and what looks good
on you. Otherwise you're just doing a
big destruction mess without anypurpose.
So what? So what I, where I help clients
is creating your own style brandso you know exactly what works
for you, what doesn't work for you, what flatters you, what

(42:42):
colors you're wearing. It's creating a strategy.
So once you have like this blueprint, because what's
happening right now is you're getting in the car and you don't
have a destination, you're just literally, that's how you're
editing your closet. That's how you're putting
outfits together, That's how you're shopping for things.
You're literally just trying something, hoping something
that's gonna work. We need to figure what actually
makes you feel confident in yourclothes and whether the tangible

(43:04):
things associated with it. So you have your blueprint.
Once you have your blueprint, then you take that into your
closet and be like, Venus has sogood on me, I should get rid of
that. So you have a fact of why
something is working and not working.
And then from there you'll know what are the things that are
missing in my closet because again, we're creatures of habit.
You either buy something that's super interesting and you wear

(43:26):
with a pair of black pants and black jeans and call that an
outfit, or you buy a bunch of boring stuff and then you say my
closet sound interesting. So we always do the same thing.
So we need to figure out where are you getting stuck and what
are the things that are going toactually elevate what you're
doing as opposed to just being redundant, redundant, redundant
and buying the same thing. So without the blueprint, you're
literally just wasting a ton of money or could be throwing away

(43:49):
things that are actually good. You just don't have the piece to
be pulling it together. So blueprint is definitely the
the thing that is needed. And if there's someone that's
listening to this and they're like, OK, I understand that.
What's my first step? I do have a $33, it's called
Outfits on Autopilot. And what it is, it's the five

(44:12):
key things that I teach women how to create outfits using the
clothes in their closet. But with that, besides the let's
have the outfits because we weren't getting dressed to be
easy with them. I'm also teaching a mindset
shift of what is the thing that's getting in the way for
doing that. Whether it's about I'm afraid to
wear color or whether it's like,that's not going to fit my body

(44:33):
type. There's that inner dialogue.
We're just identifying it. So you can start playing in your
closet and wearing clothes you love.
And then and then I'm also giving you one micro step
because what ends up happening is you go in your closet and you
try in 45 things and you hate them all and you wore what you
wore less gleek when actually the first outfit you put on

(44:54):
wasn't so bad. If you knew how to tweak it
correctly, you would have been fine with the first outfit.
Thank you, sorry for the interruption, but I have to tell
you once again how excited I am to now be offering vegan
lifestyle coaching. Now I know the word vegan can be
triggering, so just hear me out.Do you want to get healthier?

(45:14):
Do you want to feel better? Are you maybe dealing with some
health stuff, body stuff that just isn't ideal?
We all are, aren't we? So what if I could offer you a
way to improve your body? The bloating, the inflammation,
brain fog, aches and pains, digestive issues, poor sleep,
extra weight, mood and energy. Wouldn't that be awesome?

(45:38):
Yeah, I thought so. Now head to
gentlecoaching.com/veganism and let's get started.
You want to feel better and I want to help you get there.
Now let's get back to the show. Now, without making this a
counseling session, what can yousay to help women who have this

(45:59):
horrible story running through their brain of I'm just too fat
to wear bold prints or I can't, I can't wear jeans?
Number one, it's really helpful to figure out where that came
from because you didn't put thatin your head.
Someone else did or some or an experience or something
happened. Normally if you are finding that

(46:23):
you maybe don't find clothes that fit or flatter you, you're
you're probably focusing on the wrong thing because there it.
We are at a time now where thereis an excessive amount of
clothes and shapes sizes. I work with women that are 410
to 7 feet tall. I work with women that are 00 to
a size 24. There is clothes for everyone
right now. You're just probably looking in
the wrong place. So what we all need is evidence.

(46:46):
So #1 it's like, where is this coming from?
Because it's, it's not somethingyou came up with on your own.
And then be like, what do I actually really do think or what
do I actually really do want? Because if you don't want to
wear a bold print and that's your choice, cool.
No one's making you, but if you are excited about Prince and you
are having the story of I can't wear bold, wear bold prints, why

(47:09):
don't we find a way for you to tiptoe into Prince if that's
something that you're excited about or if you're excited about
incorporating color, or if maybeyou're like, you know what I do
want to wear? Try white.
I'm not saying go buy white jeans tomorrow.
That's not going to feel good. That's not safe, but like maybe
there is like a Pearl necklace that you could start
incorporating. Like what's the baby step that
you could start? Because again, it needs to feel

(47:31):
safe and we need the evidence that we didn't die.
We all know no one died from getting dressed.
But like, it needs to be one thing that's exciting you as
was. I need to go shopping.
For all new wardrobe, well that's exciting or fun.
It's like, what's the the most exciting thing that you can do
to get you into momentum in thatdirection that you want to take?

(47:55):
How do you, as someone who you know eats lips and breaths,
fashion temper the assuming thatyou have the desire to purchase,
accumulate, or just just incorporate the constantly
changing trends, How do you, Melanie, temper that with the

(48:19):
reality of maybe not having an unlimited budget or closet?
Space. So the good thing is I went to
fashion school, so I was taught all of the psychological things
that are used against women to try to get them to buy more
stuff. There's no such thing as a
trend. Fairy tale fairy dust.

(48:40):
Let's get women to buy more crap.
Yes, OK. Like sure, yes, butter yellow is
really freaking big right now and if I see one more butter
yellow postman of vomit because it doesn't look good on like 90%
of the people sort of thing. But like it is, it is a buying
tactic is what a trend is. It is a lead for a woman to feel

(49:02):
smaller or that she needs consumption in order to fit in,
as opposed to a woman finding the most powerful thing.
And the most settling and grounding thing a woman can do
is figure out what she actually likes as opposed to relying on
someone else to tell her what she likes.
Because that's all a trend is. I'm going to tell you what to

(49:23):
buy tomorrow, is what it. It's so funny.
It's so funny because it, I mean, they're so fleeting.
Like I needed to get my daughtera dress for graduation and
everywhere I looked, everything looked the same.
And I'm like, make it stop, makeit so just show me a, a

(49:45):
sensible. And I don't want to say
traditional, but, you know, maybe, maybe a lasting style of
white dress. And it was just ridiculous.
So I ended up buying her something that I'm sure she'll
be sick of in six months, if notalready.
But it was just so hard to find and so hard to shift her

(50:08):
thinking out of. But that's not what's at
Hollister right now or that's not what they're showing at
Arie, so I can't is that style. I mean, again, like I said,
she's not as obsessed as most ofthe girls her age.
So she ended up getting something that was a little
different, but it, it still was when I showed her something that

(50:32):
was really, what is even the word for basic, sensible,
classic, That's what I wanted. I, I showed her like a classic,
you know, white sheath dress. And it was like, oh God, no.
And her answer is always don't pick out something you would

(50:52):
wear. Pick out something you wouldn't
wear. If it's for me, yeah.
Then we know I might like it, 'cause if you like it, I won't.
That shirts, whatever, like it, you know, any kind of ruffles or
anything. No, Mom, that's what you would
wear, not me. So yeah.
Yeah, it's it's sad because alsothe other thing is, is that I

(51:14):
haven't looked at the study recently, but I'm sure it's been
more The fashion industry is like a trillion dollar a year
industry and it's not teaching women how to feel confident in
their clothes. It's constantly selling them
stuff. And even like I speak to 55 year
old women now and they're like, well, I'm on like to know it and

(51:35):
I'm on this and I'm looking at an influence or not.
And it's because of like, we've all kind of lost our sense of
self, so we're wanting someone else to tell us what to wear.
And while I say like, it's greatto look at other people are
doing for inspirations, I could wear those two colors together.
But none of these people look like us, right?

(51:56):
Because what ends up happening is you go and buying this whole
woman's outfit. Like this is what I'm going to
wear on Saturday night. You get it home, you try it on,
it doesn't fit you and you make you be wrong.
What's wrong with me? It doesn't look good on me.
It looks so good on her. No, she's 7 feet tall and a size
0. It's not going to look good on

(52:17):
you. And let me put this wrench in it
too. When I was in college, I
interned Aunt Marie Claire and went on photo shoots.
Do you know how many paper clipsand pins were used on those
models? The clothes didn't even fit
them. So you're making it be like the
clothes don't fit me, They don'teven fit in model?
Right, binder clips. Yep, I love it.

(52:39):
Yeah, I, I, it's, it's so complex, the messages that we
get and then all of the swirlingtrash in our heads and how, how
we blend it all together into a shit smoothie and then go into a
department store and think we'regoing to find the perfect
outfit. Well, when we when we basically

(53:01):
hate everything because we were going in there being like you're
like go setting yourself up for success going into that
situation. Do you have any staples or you
know, there's a lot of stylists out there who say everyone
should have an AB and AC. You know, are there are there
items that you think every womanshould have in her closet?

(53:22):
Or is that also a bunch of because?
A bunch of hot air because I find like those lists are the
items that I when I would go anddo in person closet edits.
But even now when I help women virtually the pieces that we
added out of their closet or something that someone told them
that they needed to have like a trench coat or a button down or
this or that. Like what is what's great to

(53:43):
have something that you actuallylove wearing to go out to dinner
on Friday night like that? That's.
What a novel concept. Right, like stop using someone
else's again, list of things that they're trying to sell you
and actually like lean into like, what is my lifestyle?
Because like for me, I can't have enough Blazers and graphic
T-shirts. But like half my clients like

(54:06):
would never like hate wearing Blazers even.
And that's where it's really important for us to find our own
self and what our wardrobe should be based on our
lifestyle, our choices, our aesthetic, as opposed to taking
what someone else is doing and trying to make it work for us.
God, it's like relearning the English language right now.

(54:27):
I mean it's. Here's the interesting thing.
It's actually not that complicated.
The fashion industry is trying to make it feel complicated
because what it is is all of this information for an Apple
body type it, this body type it,this personal caller, you don't
need to know what everyone else is doing.
You just need to see what works for you.
It's funny. So like during my programs,
people will send me like their measurements and I and I give

(54:49):
them like their body type information of like how to
flatter their figure. And some of my perfectionist
overachievers like want to see the other people's information.
And I'm like, no, because this isn't your job to go and study
what everyone else is doing. And this is what works for you.
Let's talk about maybe you don'tlike a neckline and I could help
you find a different solution. But stop like going all over the

(55:10):
place. Really sit with like, what do I
want to wear? What looks good on me?
And and by the way, the same woman, I tell her to put outfits
on and she won't put them on. Like go put clothes on and see
how what goes on with your body with the clothes and notice what
happens when you tuck your shirtin, what happens when you pull
your sleeve up? Because what I love about
clothes that is misconstrued allthe time.

(55:33):
Clothes get to create optical illusions.
You just need to know the optical illusions that work for
you so you can feel in control. As opposed to this is making me
look like crap. There's a reason why it makes
you look like crap. Learn what the reason is.
What's the most common? What's the most common tweak
that you make? Tuck your shirt in.

(55:53):
Women hate when I say that. Literally my clients come to me
and I'm not tucking my shirt in.I don't care what you tell me,
I'm not tucking my shirt in. Me, me, me, like whatever.
I get it. Like that is usually a part
where women lose and gain weightand they're not in love with it.
I am not saying go and be Steve Urkel and buy a belt and wear it
in. However, when you tuck your
shirt in, you're raising the eyelevel of where something stops

(56:16):
and starts and all of a sudden your legs are longer.
By the way, I have a video in one of my program, 15 ways to
tuck your shirt in. You don't all have to do this,
it's just how do we make it so you are creating a defined
waistline? I don't need you to show your
defined waistline. I need you to use your shirt to
help define your waist again because we get to control where
people's eyes look. And what ends up happening is

(56:39):
when your shirt is out, it's actually hitting you in your
thigh area, which you hate from cutting yourself in half and
making you look grumpy. That's so good.
It's normally the thing that we're so against because so
many, I have like case studies with clients and they're like,
and then I took my shirt in and Melanie was right.
But by the way, you need me holding your hand through this

(57:02):
process. You're not going to just wake up
tomorrow and make, well, take myshirt and like the girl on the
podcast that you need to do it in a way that feels good and
with the right type of pant and the right shirt and all of that
stuff. It's not as simple as like,
let's go take my moo moo and tuck it in and we'll have a
great day. That does make me want to go get
rid of everything in my closet. I'm not going to deny it.
I'm not going to lie, I do feel like I need a do over on

(57:26):
dressing myself. But all I would say is if
something makes you feel like shit it's just leave your
closet. OK, that I will say all.
Right, that's really good. All right, So before I say
goodbye to you, do you have any final words of wisdom that you
haven't yet shared for the person who is overwhelmed with

(57:49):
their clothes or constantly comparing themselves to other
people? Or.
Just not even that focused on onfashion.
So the one thing that everyone'sgoing to hate me for, because I
definitely deal with a lot of what I wear shouldn't matter and
I have death and I'm an interesting person and I've

(58:11):
experienced and accomplished so much.
Yeah. And you're judging people by
what they're wearing and how they're showing up, whether it's
what clothes they're putting on or just if their hair is brushed
or something like that. So what makes you think that
people aren't judging you? And I'm not saying we should
ever be doing anything from a place of I'm going to be judged.

(58:32):
However, we should sit in the driver's seat of how we're being
perceived. Because whether it's making a
friend on a playground or makinga friend at 60 years old or
going for a job interview, people are forming opinions.
And there was just a study by Princeton because of these
lovely cell phone things and allof our social media.
When I went to quote UN quote fashion school, it was 7 seconds

(58:55):
to first opinion, 110th of a second.
We are now forming an opinion about someone because that's how
fast it works on the scroll. So within 110th of a second
judgement is happening. It's before you open your mouth,
it's before they know what you went to school, and it's before
they know your name. They're already like either in
it or checked out. So why not like just make

(59:15):
yourself a little bit more friendly, presentable, sexy, or
whatever it is by just understanding the messages your
clothing is sending. And #2 if you are changing more
than once before you leave your house, this is taking up mental
energy. I'm sorry.
It is because not only are you changing multiple times and

(59:37):
you're going to war with your closet before you leave your
house, you're also regretting what you wore when you got into
things. You're looking at everyone
else's outfit and you're saying maybe I shouldn't wore that.
It is taking up mental energy and it doesn't have to.
And it doesn't have to cost a billion dollars.
It's literally making the most of what you already have.
That was so good. I love that.
And also frightening about the first impression.

(01:00:01):
I said something to my daughter the other day about a first
impression and I can't even believe that I need to retract
and and change the amount of seconds on that and say
basically just don't come out ofyour bedroom if you're not
looking spectacular because you will be judged for those
sweatpants. You will be judged for those.
Fluffy socks. You will be judged for

(01:00:23):
everything, and that's terrifying.
It's terrifying. But here's the other thing is
that, like, why not do the work and make it easier?
Because when you're not doing the work, you're actually ends
up doing a lot more work. And yeah, sure, there are times
like, do I, you know, like, go sometimes to the hotel lobby
with like, add a bra on and all of that stuff.
And I'm perfectly confident. But I've also done the work to

(01:00:45):
be like, I'm sorry, I'm wearing my lip pyjamas and no bra on,
then I'm fine. You seeing me the way that I am
as opposed to, Oh my God, I'm not going to be able to ever see
these people ever again because of the way that I showed up.
So it's also when you do this work, you're not only doing the
sending the right message, you're also doing the inner
healing of kind of not giving a shit if someone likes your

(01:01:07):
outfit or doesn't like your outfit.
You're wearing what works for you.
Right, Yeah, it's a lot of relearning.
I mean, the, the, the lack of confidence and the, the rules,
the confinement that we've carried for many years is
definitely hard to get out of. But I think most people want to

(01:01:30):
feel more liberated when they get dressed.
So I hope this conversation helps them.
So please tell everybody where they can find you and get more
of this brilliant advice. Absolutely.
So I'm at Melanie Whitman on Instagram on TikTok and also
Jenny, I'll send you over that link for the effortless outfits.

(01:01:51):
I mean, for $33. So just having the wherewithal
of what to do in your closet, I think it's a pretty great
investment if I. Do that myself.
So that also will be would be a first, a great first step if
you're just kind of like, OK, I'm intrigued, like where do I
get started? It's the perfect place to get
started. That's awesome.
Thank you. Now I would like to invite you

(01:02:12):
to raise your glass and we will say cheers to if something makes
you feel like shit, don't wear it, get rid of it.
Cheers to that. Thank you so much Melanie.
I'm so grateful for your time and I think we all deserve to

(01:02:34):
pivot from everything that we'veever read in a sassy young Miss
in Style 17 magazine and just walk with our head held high and
form our own opinions of. Ourselves.
I love that. Yes, thank you for having me.
Wasn't that so interesting? Doesn't it make you now think
about how you get dressed, the things that you say to yourself,

(01:02:57):
the clothes that you continue topurchase over and over again and
maybe throw out over and over again?
It's also interesting. So let's get into Melanie's
Notes from the sidelines #1 the way we dress ourselves is an
extension of our identity. We send a message out to the
world about how we see ourselves#2 when we're not feeling good

(01:03:20):
about ourselves. We can use clothes as armor to
hide, to pretend we're someone else, to prove something.
It's like telling ourselves subconsciously my body is wrong
and the clothes are going to fixme #3 we were taught different
isn't good. The belonging means having the
same things. So a lot of issues that grown

(01:03:41):
women have with clothes stem from childhood.
Think about that #4 when you determine your values, clothing
isn't about being vain, it's helping you be more you.
And so I'll use myself as an example.
Now that I'm really stepping into my vegan identity, my vegan
values, it's important to me to find clothes.

(01:04:04):
And this is going to be a work in progress.
This is not an overnight fix, but it's important to me to find
things that obviously are not made with animal products in any
way, but also that hopefully aremade in factories with fair
trade practices and focusing on sustainability.
And #5 this one hit me hard. There's no such thing as a

(01:04:24):
trend. It's just a buying tactic, or
rather a selling tactic. And it's so easy to fall into
that trap. So I hope you found this
conversation valuable. Check out Melanie's social
media, her website, her offers, and as I just alluded to again,
my vegan values. I am so excited about this

(01:04:45):
rebrand and overall transformation I'm experiencing.
And you will see it here too. So please share this podcast
with people you know, people youdon't know.
Go ahead and give it a five starrating and review wherever you
listen. And stay tuned for next week
where you will hear my conversation with someone I have

(01:05:07):
admired for decades. Yes, I said decades.
If you're like me and you remember the Victoria's Secret
catalog from the 80s and 90s, the ones that used to sell
actual clothes as well as lingerie, then you might see a
familiar face next week. I had the privilege of sitting
down with the gorgeous, timelessand fantastically interesting

(01:05:30):
Frederick van der Waal. So I'll see you right back here
next week for that conversation.Cheers to you.

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96 - Image consultant Melanie Lippman explains the rules of fashion

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}96 - Image consultant Melanie Lippman explains the rules of fashion