97 - Victoria's Secret model Frederique van der Wal talks sustainability and community - The Flirty Vegan

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hey ladies, my name is Jenny Chaffetz and I am the host of
Sideline Sisters. Are you a busy mom, powerhouse
professional or high achieving go getter?
This show is for no BS women whowant to be inspired to get off
the sidelines of their lives. Ever feel like you're playing
small or safe or just on autopilot?

(00:23):
My guests are relatable women who've gone on a journey,
overcome challenges, and live toshare the lessons that we want
to hear. These conversations will be
funny, sad, scary, wise, encouraging, and most of all,
real. So whether you're driving, doing
chores, exercising, walking the dog, or just laying on the

(00:45):
couch, settle in and enjoy. I want to invite you to take
back your power, reignite your passions, and step off the
sidelines. Let's go.
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Sideline
Sisters Podcast. I'm your host, Jenny Chaffetz,
and I am so excited to tell you that the rebrand is in the

(01:06):
works. Today is episode 97 and coming
very soon at episode 101 you will see a completely new vibe,
new mission, new artwork, new everything.
But one thing will remain the same.
I will feature amazing, smart, inspiring guests who will

(01:29):
educate and motivate you to lookbetter, feel better and do
better. Because as a vegan lifestyle
coach, that is my dream to show you how easy, delicious,
healthy, and cruelty free this lifestyle is.
So please continue to follow andsubscribe to this podcast

(01:51):
because I promise you, even though you might think you're
not interested in the word vegan, you will hear stories and
perspectives that affect you andintrigue you.
So stick with me and see for yourself.
However, today I continue this incredible series of fashion,

(02:12):
style and image focused conversations with someone I
have admired for decades. If you're somewhere in midlife,
then catalog shopping and glossymagazines were a huge part of
your childhood. I first saw Frederick van der
Waal as she graced the pages of the Victoria's Secret catalog

(02:33):
that appeared in my mailbox all the time, and she also appeared
on many, many high profile magazine covers.
So she is quite the stunner and she's more than just a pretty
face, which you will hear. Frederick van der Waal took her
global success in fashion and beauty and built a career

(02:54):
spanning the world of media, print, film, documentary and
television to business and activism.
She has appeared worldwide in and on the covers of top
magazines such as Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, Cosmopolitan,
L, and Shape. Frederick has produced and
hosted numerous television showsacross major broadcast channels,

(03:15):
cable networks and online platforms.
As a pioneering entrepreneur, Frederick founded Frederick's
Choice, the first curated onlineflower company, leading the way
as one of the earliest sustainably conscious brands in
the floral industry. Recognized for her
entrepreneurial acumen, Frederick has been a guest
lecturer at Harvard University and received the Marie Claire

(03:38):
Entrepreneur of the Year Award. In early 2024, she joined the
board of the global streaming platform and studio Core dot
Live, which currently reaches more than 170 million viewers
across more than 220 countries. And we talk a bit about Core dot
Live. Frederick remains deeply engaged

(03:58):
in initiatives promoting sustainability, creativity, and
female empowerment. She frequently collaborates on
projects at the intersection of fashion, art, and nature,
reinforcing her role as a tastemaker and thought leader.
So after hearing all of that, it's kind of like Victoria's
Secret. What because there is just so

(04:19):
much to this fascinating woman. Now before we get into the
interview, I want to remind you that as I rebrand my business
and podcast, I am offering free vegan lifestyle coaching
sessions for people who are flirting with this idea of maybe
going plant based, maybe focusing more on health and

(04:41):
reducing risk of chronic disease, maybe caring more about
where food comes from and the environmental impact of food
production. So I just want to invite you to
book that free call. With it, you will get a free
three day meal planner with someof my favorite vegan meals and

(05:04):
tips for living this delicious, nutritious, indulgent, easy,
affordable and family friendly cruelty free life.
So please take me up on that offer.
Head to the show notes, click the link, book the call, and get
the freebie. Now let's get into this
fascinating conversation with Frederick van der Waal.

(05:30):
OK, well I'm going to try and tame the fangirlness right now,
but I am so excited to welcome Frederick to the show.
Welcome my dear. Thank you, Teddy, it's great to
be here with you. This is such a Zoom world.
Yes, I know it's as close as we're going to get right now, so

(05:52):
I'm taking a deep breath and trying to ground myself.
As you say so often with your Dutch roots, I'm going to ground
myself because I have a lot of nervous energy running through
me as I'm sitting across the screen from someone that I have
only seen gracing the pages of worldwide publications.

(06:14):
So this is this is a real treat for me, so thank you in advance.
Thank you. Yeah.
OK, so for the listeners, this is a predominantly midlife
audience and that I know is a very vague term, which is
wonderful, however people want to interpret that.
And where do we see midlife these days?

(06:35):
I mean it could be at 60 so. Exactly.
No. I interviewed Melissa Newman,
who's the daughter of Paul Newman, and she's in her early
60s. And she said, am I?
Am I midlife? And I said, you absolutely are.
You know what? Who's saying?
You can't live to be 120. This is the middle.
Yeah. And and I think you defined it
yourself. And as women today, we are

(06:57):
starting to understand that moreand more and embracing that
together. So those terms were probably
created by men. Yeah, exactly, Exactly which,
which will tie into some other questions I want to ask you.
But for the people listening whoremember life in the 80s and 90s

(07:18):
in particular, there was a thingcalled catalog shopping, which
was a. Huge part of.
My life growing up and I would say one of the, you know,
quintessential ultimate catalogswas of course, Victoria's
Secret. Right.
Which is where I first saw you and and, and again, for people

(07:41):
listening who may or may not remember, that was a really
interesting catalog. Because it was not just the
lingerie that people associate with that brand now.
I bought a lot of clothes and shoes and things.
Oh, absolutely. They yeah, I came in in to
America in the late 80s and I actually came to America with a

(08:06):
contract for American Vogue. And then a few years in, I got
asked to, you know, there were catalog Saks 5th Ave.
Bloomingdale's, and then there was this catalog called
Victoria's Secret and they were doing a rebranding.
And so when they asked, I was a little bit like, I'm not going

(08:27):
to stand in underwear with a guynext to me.
I'm not interested in that. I think lingerie is a female
empowerment and it should be that.
And any clothing, anything should be really for the woman
itself because whatever you exude.
So at the time, and this is funny because a lot of people

(08:47):
wanted to work for certain things.
And, and I was so fortunate in those days, which I didn't
realize at all that they asked me.
And then I said, and this photographer, Arthur Elgort, was
one of the first who said, look,I'm going to be shooting.
And he was a wonderful editorialphotographer.
I'd worked with him a lot. And a kind soul and a nice man.

(09:12):
But anyway, I started working with them and it was really
about empowerment, but never realized because the catalog
probably came in the mail about twice a week or something and
every other week. I mean, I literally worked with
them for yeah, 10 years or something, yeah, kind of crazy.
I mean, it's very rare in the fashion industry in general to

(09:34):
have that long a client. And yeah, I I worked with them
in their golden days. Wonderful.
It Yeah, it's it's just a it's afascinating thing to look back
on to reflect when now in this age of Amazon and TikTok shop
like the idea of a catalog and just flipping through and

(09:56):
saying, oh, you know, look, it comes in teal and red.
Oh, I think. Yeah, it looks nice.
I know. And, and it's funny because you,
if you look at it nowadays, likeif I I mean, I've done obviously
lots of other things and, and strangely, wonderfully enough,
careers seeming to elongate. People want to relate to

(10:17):
somebody in their 40s, in their 50s into their 60s, into their
70s, into their. 80s yeah. So it's.
It's it's wonderful to see that,but when you see things online
and you want to buy something, yeah, it's a different thing.
I still have that where I like ashop and I remember that I
actually liked to look through what I was calling sort of a

(10:39):
magazine in a way. So it's, it's funny, I still
where my daughter of course, canbuy online and has no problem
with it. Where I go, I don't no, no,
can't do that. You mentioned coming to the
States in the 80s, yes. Now during my youth, my teens,
my early 20s, I feel like from my perspective the the non

(11:03):
model, the consumer, the viewer,magazine covers and the pages of
of catalogs in particular were models, not celebrities like
today. The people you see on the cover
are Kate Winslet and Zendaya andthe Scarlett Johansson.
People who are in movies not like what happened with

(11:25):
modeling. Well, I think there is always
shifts in that. I mean, it's it's you.
I mean, I remember when I did the first runway, the runway
girls looked at me and said, Hey, yo, you're not a runway
girl. First of all, I was voluptuous
and I had breast or have dressedand and I'm definitely not

(11:45):
skinny skinny. So it was suddenly the shift
where they wanted editorial girls.
And I think again, you see that we're, for example, for a while
was about influencers in the last few years, you're actually
seeing that waning now that people are saying, no, we want
to go back to people who actually have real knowledge
about certain things. Not that all influencers don't

(12:07):
have knowledge, but I mean, you know, you could instantly
become, is it through a TikTok or whatever, a, a star in the
field. And we're starting to understand
in the time we're living in thatthat's absolutely not the case.
So I think there are shifts, butthe celebrity element has become
so big because it was a way of reaching an audience.

(12:30):
Now it is the times have changedand I think everybody's kind of
looking at like, OK, how will will we move forward?
And I mean, then we go into a whole other things also in
fashion, like how do you look atfashion today?
How can we be better in this world, in sustainability?
Can we have all these clothes just being made and sold?

(12:53):
And so, you know, there's so many elements to that.
But yeah, I, I got very lucky inthat sense also that I came in
the 80s, sort of 87 was kind of my first years here.
And then into the 90s was the top of the bill of modeling
days. And you also suddenly got a name

(13:16):
in the 90s. So in the late 80s that wasn't
the case and suddenly in the 90sthere was a name associated to
the girls then, which, yeah, that helped me tremendously also
in my career. And by the way, I can say all
these words now as career, but when I arrived, like growing up

(13:38):
in Holland, you were meant to bea student.
So I was actually, I was very living in The Hague and a good
student and I was supposed to goto university and then sort of
by a hoax, I met somebody who said, oh, you could do a
modeling job. And I was like a modeling job.
What's that mean? And he says you don't look at

(13:58):
magazines or whatever. And I, we didn't really.
And there was a agency in Amsterdam, which I ended up
meeting the people and I could join, which was called the Look
of the Year, which is in. It was a, yeah, a model contest
organized by Elite, one of the bigger agencies in the world for

(14:22):
many, many decades. And this was a way for them to
find girls from around the world.
And so my motivation was winninga car, which I did, and I didn't
even have a driving license. And so, but going back to it, it

(14:42):
wasn't something known. So it took me a very long time.
Also, when I arrived in New York, I ended up studying, I was
thinking of going to Colombia. I ended up going to NYU, a new
school. But the modeling took me a
while. Like if somebody would ask me
like, what do you do? I would often say I'm a student.
I didn't dare to say I was a model.

(15:03):
So it's a it's it's an interesting, yeah, very
interesting thing. Also, my start was very strange
because why I went to America isI lost my parents.
And so I and, you know, this is now what are we?
That's almost 40 years ago. Right, right.
My mother passed in 93 and it's crazy to think.

(15:26):
Oh my God, yeah, it's been. Forever, Yeah.
That is, yeah. And so in a way, for me, it was
kind of also an escape, like I wanted to start sort of a new,
yeah, new beginning or a new life.
And, and it helped me in in an odd way, because I think that if
they were there, I maybe would have come back because New York

(15:48):
was rough and the fashion industry in those days was also
slightly a bit rough. Yeah, yeah.
That's, that's amazing. I had read that about you losing
both your parents so young and that that must have been such a
big moment for you. Yeah, I think at the time, I

(16:09):
mean, I was for a while, I had ashield and, and, and around me
and I couldn't feel for a while,which kind of helped me in the
face, right, Right. So it's, I think that's one of
the reasons why I didn't break me because it is a rough
business in many ways. There's lots of amazing stuff on
it, but it's also wasn't always as easy.

(16:31):
And I think that helped me in a way and also it took many years
to start understanding the impact.
I'm sure for you the same like what what you know in in for you
in the same thing like the moment you suddenly do certain
things in your life and you can't ask your mom or when big
things happen for me with my daughter or meeting a guy or not

(16:54):
going well in a relationship just to have that or Christmas
simple things. So definitely, but over the for
years I've also I've done a lot of work.
I've psychology, psychiatry, different workshop breath work.
I saw that you've done actually quite a bit, which been helpful

(17:18):
even to journey work. I mean, lots of a year.
So getting lighter. And so I, I don't, I remember I
the moment very clearly when thesuitcase I was carrying, I put
it in the closet and I wasn't carrying it with me.
Wow, that's like I'm here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(17:44):
So gosh, that's that's, oh, the.The story?
Yeah, we went. No, I know the journey, the
journey, it's because it's so it's so interesting.
And when you decided to try thatcontest and pursue this thing
that was kind of unfamiliar, what was that like for you to

(18:05):
wrap your brain around as far asI'm pursuing at least a contest,
maybe maybe a career in something that has to do with
looks or that's how that's how we viewers think it.
What? How did you understand the
modeling world? So it was funny because in the
beginning it was really I mean, I'm I'm curious person, one of

(18:30):
my definitely traits in life. I think it has been always very
interesting and I've was never afraid to take risks.
And I've seen that if I look back more at in those days, I
didn't realize it as much, but Iwas curious about it.
Maybe there were certain things like the car.
But then the actual contest was done in Mauritius and I had

(18:54):
never been out of the European Union.
It wasn't in the European Union,but Europe as a whole.
And it was just very remarkable though, when I was judged at the
time, some of the the supermodels of those days from
actually still super Iman and I had no idea who they were even

(19:16):
like I had no idea about that part.
But I won this contract and it was just like, yeah, OK, then I
go to New York. So it was, it was more that I
kind of took it as it came and Ididn't really realize yet the
objectification that was obviously in fashion and models,

(19:41):
though there was a clear understanding for me because I
didn't go the normal route of going to university in Holland.
I I did feel slightly shy about saying I was a model because I
didn't want to be pigeon holed as some dumb blonde or
something. So in the beginning that yeah,

(20:02):
I, I, I maybe even over. Read and over studied to to
prove something to myself, whichI think that also happens when
you don't have a parent or parents.
You kind of need to prove yourself and that doesn't work
clearly because you can keep proving yourself.

(20:22):
So that took some time, but I think I never looked at as much
that that Oh, how do how am I perceived until much later that
I realized the impact you could have or also the thing of where

(20:43):
some people, you know, the the the hardest thing probably in
fashion and acting and all all that form even sports is, you
know, if you're suddenly too oldor you're, you know, not the
right color hair, not the right color eyes, not the right color
skin. You know, all these things

(21:03):
played not strong enough. All the newest one is there.
That happens in sports. It happens in film, but also
very much in modeling. So being always you, you're on
hold for something. I'm actually now at the moment
on hold for something quite big,but I know the game.
There's a 5050 that that happens, but it's very possible

(21:27):
doesn't and either you can handle that or not.
And it doesn't matter how high up you are.
I mean, we know our a star actors, they will have the same
the models all around me in the same and that's what makes it
really hard. It's in in that sense, it's

(21:47):
you're judged not on who you actually are.
And that's when the personality gets a little screwed up.
Sorry to interrupt this incredible interview, but I have
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but so is health and helping people feel their best.

(22:11):
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(22:34):
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So be sure to check the show notes and you'll see a link to
book this free call. Share it with your friends.

(22:54):
And now let's get back to the episode.
How did you navigate rejection and not take it as a, well, I'm
in this beauty looks world. Does that mean I'm ugly?
Am I not the right look? Do I have the wrong eyes?
Do I have the wrong nose? Is this is this about me?
Or, you know, how does a young person deal with that kind of

(23:16):
rejection? Well, it's, it's, I think it's a
great tie into where we're living today.
Obviously with with social mediaand the comparison.
I mean, it's a few things. I was very lucky being brought
up in Holland. Holland empowers first of all,
young women very much so. So I had that a bit on the belt

(23:40):
and we are very much under the belt, not on the belt.
I say the very Dutch isms. It's so authentic.
Yeah, no, exactly. I have all these things on my
belt and being grounded is a very Dutch thing.
So you can't stick out. So if somebody would say, oh

(24:00):
look at me, I'm arriving here with my Porsche, people will go
Nope, They they say you, you stick out, you get chopped.
So, but then you come to Americawhere it's very much being proud
of your achievements, which is kind of fantastic.
That combination actually helpedme understanding that that

(24:22):
industry at that moment in time,I I was looked at a certain way,
but that could change. So I kind of felt that and was
good with that. Then also when things like if
somebody's, I mean, not to say Ihad moments that I felt shy.
I had moments that I remember the first Victoria's Secret show

(24:43):
afterwards I cried because I felt so exposed.
Now somebody would probably say to me how the hell you were in
the catalog Every day I said it was very different there I was
suddenly walking and people werelooking at me.
I, I felt not good and I had to cry and, and at the time my
boyfriend like put me in a bathtub and was like giving me

(25:06):
tissues. He didn't know what the hell to
do. But, you know, I think that I
was lucky that in some sense I had the Dutch this the the kind
of empowerment and then also theloss of my parents helped me in
some sense be a bit immune to what people try to do.

(25:32):
And and I have to say there werea lot of funny enough, not the
models together. There was not where people think
is there competition? It was more in in sometimes with
certain editors or stylists who could be very mean.
I mean, I remember that I've hada few where I was like, Oh my
goodness, I don't know if I wantto do this.

(25:54):
And I've had photographers who kept saying to me like, you
know, I want this and then say Iwanted you to look like, like a
slut, or I mean, like horrible. And I would suddenly at some
point I would say, you know what, F you, I'm out the door
and figure something out. And then they would be shocked.
So it was lucky I could speak up.

(26:16):
Wow. That's amazing.
I'd love to hear that because again, I, we have no idea.
I we only we we bystanders only know what we see in a movie or
ATV show that tries to make well.
I always say that too, and because I think that is so
important. So I at one point I did this TV
show cover shot and we took women who went through very

(26:39):
heavy situations, but it was from a natural disaster to even
a child dying. Like it was really pretty big
spectrum, but also quite heavy. And we would take them in and,
and mostly if, if that had happened, it would have been 5-6
years. It wasn't right after, but the
idea was to showcase them a little bit in, in a vanity way

(27:03):
by getting a hair makeup, a stylus.
And then they got a billboard inNew York Times and it made them
feel incredibly good. But what was interesting is
people seem to forget what goes into creating some of these
people like and, and this is something and especially today
with AI with all these face tuning, whatever filters,

(27:27):
whatever people, you know what you see.
I mean, if if you know, you would see certain people without
anything, It's not that or a stylist dresses them.
We can't, you know, I wouldn't know how to find certain
outfits. I mean, even being in the
industry. So to always I tell my daughter

(27:47):
also the moments that we sometimes see are created.
They are not always what you seeor we have a fight.
You post a picture of something where we suddenly on the holiday
and people think, oh, I'm jealous, I wish I was there.
Look at her. And then, you know, we just had
a fight and actually are not talking or something.

(28:10):
I mean. I rarely fight with my daughter.
Of course not, no. No.
No, I actually it's true though.That.
No, that's good. OK.
A fight with a friend. A fight with a.
Co worker, yeah, OK. But but I mean, it is good to
realize that that that what you see out there, we have to really
take it. It's funny that you said that

(28:31):
because I had completely forgotten all about it, but I
don't even remember how long agothis was.
It's got to be 10 plus years ago.
There was a reality show on called, I'm pretty sure Janice
Dickinson Modeling Agency or something.
I don't know if you knew about it.
Or no. Do you know?
Janice Dickinson. Yeah, I.
Do so she had a reality show where she was the the talent

(28:56):
agent. I mean, I think that part was
true. I think she really was a model
agent. What you said is so funny.
I'm, I'm, I'm it's all coming back to me.
The images of women on the screen doing their their shoots
and someone's behind them, like underneath the camera's view,

(29:19):
holding the dress together because it didn't fit, plumping
it up so it has, you know, a fluffier skirt or all of those
things, like basically, you know, pushing the hair around.
When we put. The fans and the like,
stretching something. It was all so we're seeing that

(29:39):
on this reality show and it's but then you see the final
picture that would be on the cover of the magazine.
It's like, no, those don't match.
No, no. And then even what they
sometimes do is they use anothermoment of the body with the
head. I mean, I remember being on set
where you have either the dress was completely cut open because
you couldn't fit it. Nobody knows.

(30:01):
And then sometimes it's also clipped with all these.
Things. And even in the 90s, early 90s,
they used to, they would be ableto like you would wear a bathing
suit and they would like a little bit of chip on the side
retouch. I mean, it was retouching
already. It was done in a different way
professionally. And it was people, sadly, they

(30:22):
don't have a job anymore. But that was, yeah, that was a
real job to do. And and yeah.
So I mean, yeah, we, I think it's always very good to be
inspired or even aspire to certain things, but to to just
take always in consideration that what that seems to be is

(30:47):
probably not the full truth. And how often have we not seen
that people who are put on thesepedestals often get very lost
and lonely. And we've heard, I mean, many
sad stories around that. Yeah.
It's, it's a very hard thing to see sometimes.

(31:09):
And I've seen quite a few girls being quite broken also with
actors. It's it's it's.
Yeah. It's not always as as good as it
seems. So you've mentioned your
daughter a couple of times, and I want to bring her into this
conversation. You know, so we live in this
world that places an enormous significance on physical beauty.

(31:33):
What has it been like raising a daughter?
What have you wanted her to understand about beauty, given
the fact that your career praised you for your beauty?
Well, it's funny, her dad a few years back as to say, and I
thought it was very sweet. We're not together anymore, but

(31:55):
we're very dear friends complimented me on the fact that
I never put myself first. So I I made a very conscious
decision when I had a daughter that to be present for her.
I've definitely said to a lot ofthings no, if it was traveling

(32:18):
too far or too long where it couldn't be in certain things.
And also she didn't understand really who I was, though
sometimes like whatever on the street and she would be
photographed. We would be photographed or
somebody would say, oh, hey, andshe and I and she would look at

(32:39):
me and then I go, I don't know. I mean, you know, the crazy New
Yorkers or something, though. That's true.
I there's a story which I alwaysthought was fantastic.
We went to it was a big one of those big Disney films, huge
screening in New York, probably in the zig fields or something.

(33:01):
And we arrived together. She's little holding her hand
and a sea of paparazzi. And we're both sort of holding
each other and they're all like,you know, Frederick or Freddie
and oh, Skyler and and she's alllike this.
And and suddenly in one moment all the cameras turn next to US.

(33:24):
I think it was like Brad Pitt orwhoever came in some some grand
star. And I looked at her and I said,
you know, we could know fart or do would be here if.
We wanted. To they wouldn't know, and this
is to understand one moment you're there and the next moment
they couldn't care less. Just know that that life is you

(33:47):
know, someones you're on top of your game and some moments
you're not. And all of it is part of but I
remember her looking at me good,so funny.
But also yeah, I I think I always try to also as her
Dutchness that I brought to her.I definitely also own yourself.

(34:07):
Be comfortable with yourself first.
Also, you know, very pro women. I I always I'm a woman's woman
and girlfriends to be very important.
Have each other's back and when boys got in the picture, you
know, I definitely also said, look, you have to be good with
you once you're and of course wego through times where suddenly,

(34:31):
I mean, it's now suddenly you first thing or suddenly I had
the other day something on and then suddenly these things were
hanging here and I was like, what the heck is that?
Now suddenly like this new skin.Yeah, sure.
Yeah, no, it's true. Like it's like some moments you.
Yeah, hey, it's all, I mean, we're aging and it's OK.
I actually like getting older. I mean, I'm fortunate I was

(34:54):
given very nice genetics, but still.
But it is also by saying you have to own it.
And I've learned a lot from I have a very dear friend of mine,
Beatrix Austs. He's in her 80s.
And to see every time how she looks at things and accepts

(35:14):
them. I always remember actually with
Lauren Hutton, and I worked withher when I was very young, and I
actually said that she reminded me of my mom, which was like the
biggest compliment I could make,right?
Obviously now I understand that if somebody was some little
fluffy girl says to yes, you remind me on your mother.
I will be like, huh, screw you, screw you, Who do you think you

(35:37):
are? And then I ended up doing her
program. She had ATV program at some
point and then we talked about it and it was so funny that
different times in your life, you know, it's like you have to
adjust and it's, you know, a part of it.
But that's definitely something.I I mean, I had yesterday a
conversation with my daughter who just Skyler, she just did

(36:02):
this amazing. It's a it's called collectible.
It was a high end design, fair arts and design and furniture
and big in New York like 4 days.She like did the whole I was
like 25 years old and she was saying, mom, I feel already sort

(36:22):
of anxious or I feel and and it's very much in the 20s now, a
lot of these young women and menboth like it has to all be sort
of instant. There's no time like the
comparison. And I said, listen, you
everything you've learned, it's a it's a process.

(36:43):
Now you're going to say, hey, from I want to do more of that
or I want to look at that. It's always this, you know, be
with yourself and give yourself be proud of where you are now
and take a moment. You know, you also come of an
adrenaline rush and and then youhave a moment of being quiet is

(37:03):
OK and take that time. Like today, it's seemingly
people. It's it's so extreme, so being
quiet and actually, hey, I don'tfeel for a moment so good or I
need to be in nature or I mean, that is always my go to is to.
I think that's why I survived. I got very lucky because when

(37:25):
Skyler was born, I wanted to have an escape out of New York.
And so we found a really old theCrippets farm and I I got put
put my hands in the dirt and work and made me always ground
again. But yeah, I mean, I think, yeah,
it's so important for for especially young women also to

(37:50):
have people speak to that. And.
And yeah, I think my daughter ispretty very grounded and has a
good outlook. And I, I mean, I definitely take
some for that and her dad too. But I definitely, and we have a
very close and good relationship.

(38:10):
So I'm extremely proud of that. Yeah, that's incredible.
You should be. I'm, I have a daughter myself
and it's, there's so much we have to think about or worry
about as far as giving the wrongmessage.
And it sounds like you have donea remarkable job giving her the

(38:34):
tools and the building blocks tofeel good about herself in this
world. So I'm curious, what has raising
a daughter especially, I don't want to say post modeling
because you still do work, but you know, after this enormous
career, what have you learned from her?

(38:56):
Well, lots. I mean, I think having her was I
didn't know if it was going to be her or he.
And when it was a girl or is a girl was amazing for me.
It made my heart very round. I mean, I was scared in the
sense not about me or my body orany of those things, but scared

(39:18):
that I didn't have a mother. I'm sure you thought about that
like, Oh my God. But you know, but it came very
natural and she it's mirror. And if you're open to that and
daring to look at that, she thought, I mean, little things

(39:38):
like where she would suddenly I'm talking to you or even as
she was little and I would be onmy at the time, BlackBerry or
whatever and saying, Yo, mom or I I was aware or in ways of when
I tell a story or if I'm she's very good in in design and
style. She says, mom, what you're

(39:58):
wearing is not good or those areoutside things.
But also in her we have had conversations.
She yeah, it's very interesting.I think the two of us have
learned a lot from each other. She's also, she taught me to say
sorry. I couldn't say sorry for a long
time. I had a hard time with that.

(40:22):
Control, to let go of control. That was my sort of way of
dealing with a lot of stuff is was it was thinking that I had
to control everything must have been a nightmare.
So she was one of the first who put that mirror up and I did
work around that to make sure I wouldn't be this constant

(40:44):
controlling and I can admit thatI'm doing much better.
I love it. That's so good.
And and I want the listeners to know that I did not prep you for
that question. That all seemed to come very
quickly and easily, but I I wantthe listeners to know there
there, this was an on the spot question.
Good. That's, that's so good.

(41:06):
I love that. And empathy, actually empathy.
She has an enormous amount of empathy.
And I, I mean, I, I, I have it too.
But through her eyes I could see.
Yeah, she taught me even more. And, and the Dutch are known
also to be kind of judge mental.Yeah.

(41:29):
And so a quick, you know, judgement or something critical.
And I've learned to understand that, you know, you can judge
somebody from the cover of the book or situation.
And we've seen it too often. So yeah, that's something that
that I, I definitely she she helped me in.

(41:51):
Yeah, it's so important for all of us to recognize that as
humans, and especially you beingsomeone in this literal
spotlight, there's so much more than just a pretty face.
I mean, to learn about you and know that you lost both of your
parents young and navigated thisworld of fashion and modeling at

(42:16):
at a young age without parental involvement.
And then to be the kind of mother that you've been, it's,
it's just, it's so important to go deeper than what we see in
two. D Yeah.
And also I have to say one of mywhat I feel, what modeling and
and the fashion and and being inthe spotlight really gave me.

(42:38):
It's the doors that opened. And This is why I love America.
America really gave me that the people you, you, you have a
chance to develop yourself in directions.
And so initially it started sortof with programming, but then I
did a documentary around for Discovery was the idea of how

(43:01):
certain products come to us. And I did it with flowers.
And at same time there was a flower being named after me,
which was unusual for the Dutch.But out of that documentary, I
started a line of like the firstonline flower flower sale

(43:24):
bouquets that I curated because I'm always with flowers, just
some spray roses and I but sustainability has been a really
a driver. So at one point to Sustainable
Fashion Week, I could be a voiceto that with my own company,
Frederick's Choice. And actually, not so long ago, I

(43:48):
did a film around a power woman that's eco feminist called
Doctor Vanana Shiva of where I ended up as an executive
producer raising money so she could have a global impact
campaign. And she talks all about organic
foods, regenerative farming to mitigate also climate change and

(44:11):
for the food systems. So it was fabulous to be doing
that. And now actually I'm on the
board of a media platform which is a foundation where I'm four.
It's called Core dot Life and wefind documentaries or I'm
spearheading really the content coming and some of the charities

(44:33):
and it's really in. If I look back, it's also I
mean, I look forward, but I lookalso back that certain things
how they come together and form itself.
If and I actually this is one ofthe conversations I had to
Skyler yesterday, not about all these things, but seeing you
can't always see where things lead.
Just be curious, be present and then and dare to take a risk,

(44:58):
open the door and see what happens.
If it fails, who cares you you tried it.
But I have to say I feel very lucky to be in this moment of
time, even though it's a shit show out there.
I. Don't know what you're talking
about. I don't know what you're talking
about. No, but it is.

(45:18):
It's so restless everywhere. I mean, we're between wars and
this and that and political and polarized.
It's just it's a really hard time.
So I think even more so. I mean, one of the things I said
to Skyler yesterday, we've done charitable work overtime, I've
brought her into certain events or where I am on boards or

(45:38):
ambassador. I said it's really good to find
something that moves you where you put your time towards.
And in the beginning, maybe it'sjust here and there a little
bit, but it is a really good time to feel of it's not about
you, but just about giving something and and it will help

(45:58):
you. It's an interesting thing.
It's a yeah. It makes things rounder and
better. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. Sorry for the interruption, but
I have to tell you once again how excited I am to now be
offering vegan lifestyle coaching.
Now I know the word vegan can betriggering, so just hear me out.
Do you want to get healthier? Do you want to feel better?

(46:20):
Are you maybe dealing with some health stuff, body stuff that
just isn't ideal? We all are, aren't we?
So what if I could offer you a way to improve your body?
The bloating, the inflammation, brain fog, aches and pains,
digestive issues, poor sleep, extra weight, mood and energy.

(46:40):
Wouldn't that be awesome? Yeah, I thought so.
Now head to gentlecoaching.com/veganism and
let's get started. You want to feel better and I
want to help you get there. Now let's get back to the show.
So how are you deciding what to pursue with Core?
How what? What is this?
What does that look like? So for example, three weeks ago,

(47:04):
a woman in Holland who works a little bit in the sustainability
said, oh, I came across this film of a friend of mine.
They made a small documentary. It's about the Muga Valley.
And the Muga Valley is in the north of Spain.
And it was like, it's like a 35 minutes film, so hard for

(47:26):
anything to place it. But it is about how this
community under the Pyrenees live in a pretty dangerous zone
for fires. And obviously the, the, the
climate change is there and they've had quite a bit of fires
and then not enough water. And so this community did a
couple of things. One Greek made community again.

(47:50):
So the little villages started organizing a festival together.
So creating community, which is key in person human contact.
And then they started looking inhow to approach when fires come.
And one of the things, a fire moves through the brush a meter
and a half higher up. So they were taking care of the

(48:13):
brush and they brought back the vultures and by that an
ecosystem came back. And I've often heard this like
in rewilding, they do that. So for example, this is
something that we're now lookingat, Hey, this could be great
that we can use for the platform.
We're also looking at AI learning.

(48:34):
So this would be a great way where this could be for
different communities in the world that they say, oh, we can
use this as sort of an educational thing.
We're for example now talking toa satellite company in Sweden to
get into remote areas and we cancreate contacts content.

(48:54):
We're talking to the prison system where we have done with
tablets and then like, for example, I just have are working
on or helping with a film that is about a Dutch couture.
He's a designer that was the first to sort of reuse fabric.

(49:15):
So being a sustainable guy. And it's really nice to hear
that story and I think for people again also to see not
easy and just at survival and how he's done it.
And, you know, and, and funny enough, the the filmmaker said
we could do an interview. And I said I would love to

(49:35):
actually, because when I started, I didn't realize how
polluting the fashion industry was.
I had no idea. I, I mean, yes, I grew up in a
Dutch environment where we were frugal electricity.
I knew about all that and water use and but I didn't know what
the fashion industry had for impact.
So it was, you know, anyway, it's projects like that and

(49:57):
sometimes it can be a friend of mine who's an artist who does
great work and I think should beseen to depends a little bit and
it's fun. Nice.
Yeah, isn't that important. Oh, I think that's a huge thing.
So so with the you know, to quote you the shit show outside,
what issues are most important to you?

(50:19):
Well, I, I, I think dialogue, I think that we don't talk to each
other anymore. And talking is one thing,
listening is another. Hearing opinions that diverge
from each other. My daughter, for example, asks
me, asked me like, how do I talkabout Israel and Gaza?

(50:44):
I mean, this is so big. It's a conversation to have, you
know, to understand why people, you know, discuss certain things
I think is really important. So dialogue is very good.
And in the shit show, I think community, we have to find
people that to be together and create maybe.

(51:08):
And not to say that you stay in your own pot always, but also to
be open to create events again where people talk and not be
attached to a goddamn phone all the time.
I try not to watch the news or Ihaven't watched the news in a
very long time. I'm the same.
But I am definitely stuck in my vertical, which I think is also

(51:30):
another thing that that I, you know, at the moment it's very
hard what's real and what's not real anymore.
So yeah, in the shit show and then for me, I focus very much
on how can we do better and better is a better world nature.
We have to preserve what we have.

(51:51):
That's a real issue. I don't care what you call it,
but the weather is definitely, we see it everywhere.
It's having a huge effect. It wasn't like that.
I know things are secular, but it has.
We have done things to our surroundings and we need to step

(52:13):
up and we as people can all do alittle bit.
Let's if we do all little bits, then things can change.
And and it can be as simple as bringing your own bag to the to
the grocery store to saying, youknow what if I say I don't want
to hold plastic, whatever it changes, you know, a corporation

(52:35):
will listen to that. We should understand that we
have power to it. And.
And yeah, I'm very into food also.
What is good for you and what not?
I'm, I'm starting to understand more and more through that film
also. Oh my goodness.
Like realizing that our seeds, like what if you're growing

(52:58):
things that you make sure that the seeds are right, the earth,
how do you use that? The effects that it has on us?
Yeah, it's all very. It's.
Yeah, it could keep you busy fora long time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's important also
to tell the story because you always take something away from
it where you think, oh, really? You know, in America, people are

(53:21):
very with healthcare. I mean, I, like my daughter said
something how sick do I have to be before you bring me to the
doctor? And I said you are supposed to
be sometimes sick. That's good.
You bring build up stamina. And of course, if you have
something serious, we go to the doctor.

(53:41):
That's why they're there. But we don't go to the doctor.
If you know your nose is hurtingfor a second because you picked
your nose too hard, just sit with it.
You know whatever or or with youknow for example, if your ear
hurts my I was taught at one point you do olive oil with
garlic. So I did like if you take
antibiotics for the littlest thing, you become dependent.

(54:03):
Yes. And when you do get your UTI in
middle it doesn't work. Yeah.
Oh, my goodness. Yeah.
I love it. I love it.
That's so good. You know, it's interesting that
you brought up community and dialogue.
I told you how I had a conversation with Emmy and that
came up in our interview. She talked about the the

(54:24):
importance of, I mean, just likeyou said, put the friggin phone
down. She said, you know, go out your
front door, see who your neighbors are, actually converse
with people, invite them into your home, have a cup of coffee
with them. What happened that the doors are
shut, the shades are down and our faces are in phones?
Yeah. And it's funny, I did at one

(54:45):
point with my company, we did a calendar and we had to do each
day a particular thing within the sort of the company.
And I really liked it. And and I would say to Skylar,
you have to, for example, we didthat a few times during the
weeks. But to give a real compliment to
somebody, you walk on the streets and it's so funny when

(55:09):
you suddenly say I love your outfit or great hair or or
whatever, and what happens instantly the whole energy
changes. I have this thing in elevators
where I sometimes feel like everybody is like sort of this
thing. And then I suddenly have to say
to break the thing, like, oh, wow, Can you believe it?

(55:29):
What? The whatever this weather, I
mean something stupid, but it changes everything.
I mean, it's so true. I mean, we have to, we have to
really. Yeah.
I mean, I I feel I'm in a sense lucky because I feel that I can,
I'm present with myself. So I feel that it it's yeah.

(55:51):
If when you do that, it's nice. It's good, it feels good, it
helps. You, it does feel really good.
Yeah. You catch someone who's like,
oh, wow, you noticed? Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, it saw me. Yeah.
So important. You know, when you talked about
sustainability, it had me thinking back to how we started
the conversation with the fashion catalogs.

(56:14):
Maybe it's a? Good thing that we're not
getting. Catalogs every other day in the
mailbox. Absolutely.
I mean, I, I agree. I mean, it was something I was
going to say, but then, you know, I mean, and this is the
times too, though, you have to, I mean, there's an organization
called Remake. And, and when you start
realizing, what with the H&M's and, and obviously they all have

(56:38):
a place in all the big box shops, but there's maybe we have
to look at it from a different angle of how we can reuse things
even that are there. Do we need every time a new
T-shirt? I mean, there has to be a
different way to look at it and understand that some of these

(56:59):
things come right back there in Bangladesh or India and never
used. And you know, what's there is
also here in the end. So we have to.
We're all connected. I love when people say shop your
house, shop your closet. I went somewhere with a group of
people recently and I brought some fruit salad in like a pasta

(57:23):
jar or something, 'cause I keep,I keep all of it.
I I reuse. I wash and reuse all my glass
containers and so I show up. With that's a good one, what you
just said. Yeah, yeah.
So I show up with this glass jarand it says on the side of it,
you know, pesto sauce or something.
And this person's like, oh, whata what a clever idea.

(57:45):
Like I invented paper or something.
Yeah, what a clever idea to reuse the jar and, and put other
food in it when you're out and about.
And I said, OK, I, I didn't comeup with this idea, but yes, it
is very clever and I recommend it that, you know, I've got jars
in all sizes. You know, the little capers jar

(58:05):
comes in handy when I make saladdressing up to the big pasta
jar. And then the giant jar that has
rice in it. It's like I've got a, I've got a
drawer of jars I love. It, Yeah, yeah, No, exactly.
I mean, that's it. But that is, for example, a
thing like once somebody knows that this is a great one.
And and by the way, also glass, not the plastic, because we now

(58:28):
know that all this plastic, it'scoming into our system.
So but yeah, I mean, I, I totally agree.
And that you Start learning every time.
Like the other day I was, I heard about, you know, how Chia
seats are good for you, but theyshould be wet.
So you should have them in waterand then take them because

(58:49):
otherwise they take the water out of your intestines only.
I mean, nobody told me that before.
I thought I was doing the, you know, I mean, you think
sometimes you do the right thingand then so like little things
like that, they are personal. But when you don't take your
you're you're using a plastic bag at a grocery store, you

(59:09):
start making an impact. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But.
Frederick I I have monopolized alot of your time, but this has
been so delightful. What what would you before I let
you go? What advice or what life tips
would you give the women listening from anything, from

(59:32):
you know, beauty, from sustainability, from child
raising, you name it. Well, I, I, I, let's start with
something. So first on beauty.
I firmly believe in for women always to clean your face before
you go to bed and moisturize anddrink a lot of water.

(59:57):
I think that that's, and I change my products around.
So that's so and I don't wash myhair a ton if I can avoid it.
Obviously with sometimes with work you can't help it, but
that's also good. I think in in in family life is
to be an ear to learn to listen a little bit and see how they

(01:00:24):
they are wiser often than we think and get some credit for.
And I think by putting the time in, you get things back it all.
It sometimes seems hard, but I think I, that's one very big
thing. I, I made time for my daughter
and and she will still say if I'm not present or I'm too much

(01:00:49):
is going on, she she will say itin an instant because she knows
the difference. So that's probably a good thing.
So yeah, I would definitely say that.
And I think in being conscious, don't shy away in the sense it
seems all like a lot that's going on, but maybe look at a

(01:01:13):
few things where you say, hey, you know, I want to start making
a few small changes. And is that by saying I'm never
going to buy or never don't don't immediately put the
standards high. But for example, a water bottle,
have your own water bottle. Simple.
It's it's it's, you know, have bags so that you bring to your

(01:01:34):
grocery service little things that you can do shop vintage.
Think about that. Do maybe throw a party and do an
exchange with a bunch of women and have fun with it.
Have a cocktail party and everybody has to give somebody
or somebody has to everybody hasto walk out with another outfit
from somebody. I mean, it changes your feeling

(01:01:56):
like create the community and and yeah, I think take a risk
and say hello to someone or havea conversation that isn't sort
of your normal way. Like even at a grocery store or
somebody, you suddenly talk to somebody and really talk to

(01:02:17):
somebody, something changes and that energy is as good for you
as it is for them. So yeah, that will be a few.
Those are good. And honestly, that is one of the
huge reasons I have this podcastis to have these conversations
for myself and then to share them with the world that, you

(01:02:40):
know, we didn't know each other.We're two women having a
conversation. And I recognized you before you
saw me, but yeah. But this is also something
where, you know, I think something comes on your path.
I mean, I usually could have said no, I don't know who that
is, whatever. No, you always get something out
of somebody in a good way. I'm not.

(01:03:04):
The exchange is a healthy thing,and that's what we always have
to remember. And that's we are.
I mean, I think you're real. No, AI did not create.
This. Can you, Can you imagine that
soon we're going to be another thing?
No, but that's I think that's important for us all and also
not to be too hard on yourself. I mean, I firmly when I have

(01:03:30):
learned when it's not going well, which for everybody, you
go through times like that to let that also be a little bit
and and, you know, and maybe even reach out to friends and
say, Hey, I need a little help or, you know, can you pick me up
and we're going to a fun movie or whatever it is.

(01:03:52):
Like it's also important. Yeah.
We don't. We don't all have to pretend
that everything is always good. No.
Because they eat. Yeah, yeah.
Wow, that that was a lot to digest.
There were, there were so many good things there.
I want you to tell the audience where to get more of you.

(01:04:16):
What what you want? What do you want the audience to
know? Actually, I'm in the in the
moment, a little bit of a pivotal moment of which
directions again, I I'm going because the social media I've
had a bit of a difficulty with and we're maybe going to do a
bit of a rebranding. But you know, I am on Instagram,

(01:04:39):
Frederick VD Wall and mostly my stories will be reflections of
things. I still have a site, but I
haven't been very active with that.
Yeah. I mean, that would be probably
the best way through the Instagram that that's sort of
the most there. Yeah, because I'm so eager to

(01:05:00):
hear what comes of the documentary work and the movies.
And all of that. Well, this is the thing that I
kind of, I'm trying to figure out how I can have these things
live there. I kind of made it a little bit
of a you know, it's one of thosethings where I thought, OK, I I
want to talk about what happens in those things.
So I'm I'm and then a part can be fashion, but it's so much

(01:05:24):
more interesting the next phase.But yeah, so.
Good. Yeah.
All right. Well, before we say goodbye, I
want to invite you to raise a glass.
We're going to say cheers to staying grounded.
Staying grounded. Cheers.
It's a good one for this world. Yes, you know, if you look

(01:05:46):
outside you see a shit show. Put your feet in the ground.
Well, one big thing on that is my goal to take a walk in
nature. Yes, Yep.
That works. Changes your energy.
It's so easy and everywhere has nature.
Cities have nature. They do, totally.
I mean, you can go into a park and you sit there.
It's a different feeling. It totally is.

(01:06:08):
Well, I am so grateful for this time together and I wish you so
much success with everything. Going, thank you.
Thank you. Wow, right?
If you didn't already know who Frederick van der Waal was, be
sure to Google her name. Check out the old pictures.
It might ring a bell, especiallyif you were a catalog shopper

(01:06:29):
like I was in the 80s and 90s. Now let's get into Frederick's
many notes from the sidelines #1moments on TV and images in ads
and online are created and curated, so remember, they're
not real, but unfortunately present ideas that make us think

(01:06:51):
something that just isn't true #2.
In life, there are moments whereyou will be at the top of your
game and there are other momentswhere you aren't and that's OK
#3. Own yourself, especially as you
age. Be comfortable with yourself 1st
and be proud of yourself. Give yourself that moment of

(01:07:13):
being quiet #4 Lessons Fredericklearned from her daughter
Skyler. Be present with each other
without your face in tech, say sorry, let go of trying to
control and have empathy #5. You can't always see where
things are going to lead, so just be present and curious and

(01:07:38):
dare to take risks. Number six, find causes that
matter to you and give #7. Talking and listening to each
other is key to living a full life.
Let's remember to build community and create time
together without phones #8 let'sthink about how we can do better

(01:08:00):
and preserve resources. How can we reuse and not consume
so much? We all have to do a little bit
#9 compliment people. It makes them feel good and
changes the energy. And #10 don't pretend everything
is all good when it's not. Reach out to a friend, ask for

(01:08:23):
help. So I want to thank Frederick
once again for this beautiful conversation.
So be sure to follow her and check out what she's doing and
be sure to follow or subscribe to this show wherever you're
listening. Remember, there's a YouTube
channel. All the links are in the show
notes and book yourself a free call with me.

(01:08:44):
Let's just talk about the plant based life.
Let's just have a conversation about what that could look like
for you and what that means for the planet and all the special
creatures walking around us. I wish you a beautiful week.
And I'll see you right back herenext time for my conversation
with the lovely and talented jewelry empire founder, Rachel

(01:09:07):
Milky. Cheers to you.

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97 - Victoria's Secret model Frederique van der Wal talks sustainability and community

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}97 - Victoria's Secret model Frederique van der Wal talks sustainability and community