November 28, 2024 • 43 mins
Ever wondered how someone transitions from a stable ministry role to the unpredictable world of entrepreneurship? Join us as we catch up with Jennifer, a beloved guest from our first season, who’s done just that. Her story is one of resilience and reinvention, as she leaves behind an eight-year tenure at Shoreline Church to launch a successful career as a virtual executive assistant. Jennifer's journey didn’t stop there—she also embarked on a deeply personal ministry venture inspired by her son's return home after years of incarceration. Together, we explore how she’s using this experience to create resources for families facing similar challenges.
Entrepreneurship can be a rocky road, and Jennifer shares her strategies for navigating it, emphasizing the importance of community support and self-discipline. We discuss the delicate balance of transitioning from full-time work to entrepreneurship, shedding light on how to gradually build a client base while managing financial stability. Beyond the business landscape, Jennifer remains passionately involved in ministry and recovery, prioritizing authentic connections and community involvement. She offers insights into how to engage in meaningful dialogue while thoughtfully navigating our complex cultural and political environment.
The conversation takes a thoughtful turn as we dive into the importance of living authentically in ministry and the transformative power of faith and therapy in managing anxiety. Jennifer opens up about her personal struggles with anxiety and how therapy, coupled with spiritual practices, has helped her find peace. We also discuss the profound impact of silence and stillness in fostering a deeper spiritual connection, highlighting techniques like cold plunging and maintaining a healthy lifestyle to support mental health. This episode promises rich insights into holistic well-being, personal growth, and the incredible strength found in vulnerability and genuine human connection.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Piet Van Waarde (00:00):
All right, well , we're ready to go, then, I
guess.
Well, thank you for joining usfor another episode of Sidewalk
Conversations.
We are in season.
What is it, preston?
What season are we in?
We're in season three, and eachtime we make some adjustments
in our setup, and I think we areat our best right now, and I'm
(00:22):
certainly at my best today,because I have a wonderful guest
.
She was with me in season one,one of my first guests.
So, jennifer, welcome.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Jennifer Orenstein (00:33):
Thanks for asking me back.
Piet Van Waarde (00:35):
Yes, that's always a good sign when somebody
asks you back.
It's like yeah, I guess Ididn't suck too bad, so it's
good to have you.
So I want to jump right in,because we have a lot of
material to cover today.
Jennifer Orenstein (00:49):
Okay, let's do it.
Piet Van Waarde (00:51):
First of all, why don't you give a little
background For those who mightbe joining us who don't know you
very well or may not haveremembered what you talked about
last time?
But you were in ministry at achurch.
We were on the same staff atShoreline, and you've made some
transitions since then.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you're doing.
Jennifer Orenstein (01:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So I was on staff at church foreight years the better part of
eight years and that season sortof came to a very peaceful end.
I felt like it was definitelylike just a page turning and it
was time to do it's nice when itcan be that way.
I know it's not always that way.
(01:35):
I felt very peaceful andsettled about it, and it wasn't
like God was pushing me out, butI just felt like, yeah, the
season is coming to an end andthere are new things on the
horizon, and so I'm reallygrateful that it went that way.
Piet Van Waarde (01:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (01:53):
Yeah, so of course I started my own business
a little over a year ago.
Piet Van Waarde (01:58):
Which I think is always kind of a little bit
of a risky venture right,Because it's one thing to go
from one job and a securepaycheck to another job and a
secure paycheck.
But when you do theentrepreneurial thing, it's a
whole new thought, a little lesssecure.
Jennifer Orenstein (02:14):
I guess what prompted that I don't know, and
it's funny to hear you say likea risky venture, because that
was nowhere in my thoughts whenI was starting that business.
Piet Van Waarde (02:25):
That it was risky.
Jennifer Orenstein (02:27):
That it was risky.
Yeah, I wasn't feeling thatsense of riskiness about it at
all.
I just felt like the um, I feltlike everything had just lined
up, almost as though it wereordained that way and almost
like that, and I felt like I hadthe skill set for it and the
experience and the knowledge.
(02:48):
And you know, the only thingthat was, I guess, maybe a
little bit scary was willanybody hire me?
Piet Van Waarde (02:55):
So what's the work you do?
Jennifer Orenstein (02:57):
So I am a virtual executive assistant.
So I work completely remotelyfrom home for a variety of
clients, primarily just doingexecutive assistant type things.
So all of those things that goalong with that.
Piet Van Waarde (03:11):
Which is not that, and maybe this is probably
where you had some confidence.
You were very administrativelyoccupied at church so you had
events and ministry coordinationand that kind of thing, and so
there was probably a comfortlevel that you felt with doing
that executive type assistingwork right.
Jennifer Orenstein (03:29):
Yes, very much in my comfort zone and in
my background, going back evenbefore ministry.
That is the kind of work that Idid and so it felt very
comfortable and natural to meand I felt like, again, I had
the skill set for it and theexperience.
So, um, so, yeah, I guess thebig risk was, would anybody hire
me?
And then it happened so fastthat people hired me that I was
(03:51):
like wait what?
I did and thank you and you'vebeen great so people started
hiring me and that was justalmost mind blowing to me, like,
hey, people will actually liketrust me to do this for them,
and so I've just been sograteful for the clients that I
have and yeah, yeah so that wasa little over a year ago.
(04:13):
Um, it's going great.
I love it.
I love what I get to do forpeople.
Um, and then the Lord hasplanted some new thoughts and
ideas in my heart as well asMike, my husband's heart also,
and so, um, those things aresort of in their sort of
inception still where we're kindof like putting the pieces
(04:35):
together and, um working them tobe sort of like fully grown,
wow, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (04:41):
Awesome.
Jennifer Orenstein (04:41):
Yeah, which I'm very, very excited about
that.
Piet Van Waarde (04:44):
Next, Is that ministry related or is that
another business venture?
Jennifer Orenstein (04:47):
It will be ministry related.
Um.
As you know, but probably somepeople who are listening might
not know our son, um, has beenincarcerated for um over eight
years now and was finallyapproved for parole in June, and
um we'll be coming home inprobably just under a year.
Piet Van Waarde (05:04):
Thank, you, Lord, I know finally.
Jennifer Orenstein (05:09):
And so when we found out that he was
approved for parole which hadbeen a huge answer to prayer, of
course the first thing Istarted doing, just because this
is my nature, is researching tosee what resources are out
there that we could maybe learnfrom people who have walked this
road before us families whohave had a loved one come home
from incarceration even likeministries that exist out there
(05:29):
to support families in that.
And what we found was literallynothing.
There was nothing out there.
On the family side, you knowwhere you could really have
somebody come alongside you andbe like, hey, here's how you
need to start preparing yourheart and your mind and your
household and the siblings andall of these things and
grandparents you know the whole.
Piet Van Waarde (05:48):
Thing.
Jennifer Orenstein (05:50):
And it was sort of startling to us that
there was really nothing for usto glean from in that sense, and
so in that moment we just feltlike God was like well, here you
are about to walk through thisprocess, so write it all down
and you be the resource forpeople who come behind you.
Piet Van Waarde (06:12):
Good for you and I can so identify with that
because I felt a very similarkind of prompting related to the
cancer journey.
You know, same kind of dealwhere you have the sense that
part of how God redeemssuffering is by putting you in a
place where you can be of helpto others.
Jennifer Orenstein (06:30):
Exactly, exactly.
And one of the verses God gaveto me early, early on in this
journey with our son is theverse about you know the God of
all comfort, comforting you sothat you may comfort others with
the same comfort you've beengiven Right.
Piet Van Waarde (06:42):
Keep coming back to that too.
Jennifer Orenstein (06:43):
Yes, yes, and at first I really like I
hate to say this, but I kind ofhated that verse because I was
like I don't care how this isgoing to be used.
But, now like I get it.
Piet Van Waarde (06:53):
Yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (06:53):
And I do think that you know God has
appointed this season in ourlife for this purpose, and he's
been very intentional and directabout what it should look like
and how we should spend ourefforts on it, and so we're in
the process of writing a bookand starting a nonprofit Good
(07:15):
for you.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's kind of ministry-wise, that's sort of what's next for
us.
Of course, celebrate Recoverystill exists.
Piet Van Waarde (07:22):
You're still active in that, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (07:24):
And that, I think, will always be a home for
me and a place where I feelsafe and connected, and so I'm
super grateful for that too Cool.
Piet Van Waarde (07:32):
Yeah, Well, going back to the business
venture, we're going to comeback to ministry too, but before
we get too far off that topic.
So you've made this transitionto virtual executive assisting
and I'm just curious what haveyou enjoyed most about that
transition?
Because I'm sure there arethings about ministry that you
(07:56):
miss and church life and staffand stuff like that.
So maybe we'll get to thatlater.
But in terms of the best partof this transition, what have
you enjoyed most about making it?
Jennifer Orenstein (08:07):
The thing that I love the most about what
I'm doing now is the ability toinvest in other people's dreams
and visions and even for some ofmy clients, to be able to sit
down and vision cast with themand be like hey, how do you want
to grow?
you know your organization oryour ministry over the next six,
eight months, 12 months and youknow what would that look like
(08:29):
for us.
To partner together in that andjust getting to hear people's
dreams about you know their ownministries or organizations and
to get to be a small part ofseeing those things come to life
is so life-giving to me.
Just to sort of be in thebackground and do I mean what I
do is helpful for sure, but um,to watch how the whole thing
(08:49):
kind of comes together and seedreams come to life has been
like the greatest thing for me.
Piet Van Waarde (08:55):
Just to watch that Well, and you've been good
at that, like we've done acouple of those sessions as well
and always appreciated your,your, perspective.
Yeah, Um what's the hardestpart?
Jennifer Orenstein (09:07):
What has been difficult, I think the
hardest part, and I don't know.
I haven't owned very manybusinesses, but you're your own
boss, you know, and so the onlymotivation you're getting is
yourself, right, and so,thankfully, I really operate on
the planner side of things, andso I'm very regimented in how my
days are organized and how Ibreak up tasks throughout a week
(09:29):
.
But again, I'm the only personwho's telling me what has to get
done, and so I thinkoccasionally I'm like you know I
don't really have to.
There's nobody here watching,so you have to be your own
accountability.
You know, and you have toremember that people are still
depending on you, even thoughyou're remote, you know, and
(09:52):
there are still deadlines andthere are still expectations,
and you know you always want tohonor what your promises and all
of those things, but the onlyperson holding you to that is
yourself.
So for me it works.
I don't know if it would workfor everyone, and there are days
when I'm like, yeah, this istough today.
I'd really rather just hang outand read.
(10:15):
Maybe I don't know.
Piet Van Waarde (10:18):
So if you were giving advice to somebody who is
maybe similarly oriented to hey, I think I'm in a season where
I'm ready to do something on myown and try something.
Is there any advice you wouldgive about that?
Jennifer Orenstein (10:30):
I mean, I think there are so many factors
behind it.
I don't know what everybody'sfinancial position is, and I
think in some sense I was alittle bit privileged in that I
have Mike who carries thebiggest part of our financial
burden as a family you know andreally provides for us, and I'm
super, super grateful for that.
But I also feel like when allthe pieces feel like they're
(10:53):
coming together in that momentand you're having sort of that
risky, would anybody ever hireme?
Piet Van Waarde (10:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (10:59):
Moment that the only way to know is to do.
You know to take the risk, putyourself out there, let people
know what you're interested indoing and, by and large, I find
that people who are in yourcommunity already are just
naturally excited for new thingsthat are happening in the lives
of their friends.
And whether they'll hire you ornot, you know they'll get
behind you and they'll championyour cause and they'll be your
(11:22):
advertisers, you know, and solike.
Don't underestimate thecommunity that you have around
and the power behind that andthe ability to to launch a
business just out of that.
I haven't done a significantamount of like marketing or
website development, as far asthat goes, to get my business
going, um and, and I think a lot.
So much of it happens, you know, naturally through connections
(11:46):
that already exist.
Piet Van Waarde (11:48):
One of the things I saw you do that I
thought was really smart was youwent from full-time to
part-time when you were on staffand in that part-time role you
started kind of fishing forclients and bringing some people
on.
So the transition wasn't likestop here, jump fully in.
(12:08):
No life preserver, no nothing.
Jennifer Orenstein (12:13):
Yeah, that was more for my husband than it
was for me, okay, but it washelpful.
That was that I think that togive yourself permission to do a
slow transition, if that's whatyou need on the financial side
of things, that did help uswhere I went down to essentially
half-time in ministry, and thento be able to build up.
Piet Van Waarde (12:33):
Half-time pay you mean yes, exactly.
Anybody who's been in ministryknows there's never really
part-time work.
Jennifer Orenstein (12:45):
But then to be able to build up the business
so that it covered thathalftime loss essentially you
know, pay loss and then tofigure out from there like okay,
it's taking this many hours orthese many clients, and to give
yourself like that space tofigure it out Like you don't
have to know the answer to everysingle question right out of
the gate.
Piet Van Waarde (13:05):
Yeah, yeah, awesome.
Jennifer Orenstein (13:06):
So yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (13:07):
All right Now.
I know you are very muchministry oriented.
Jennifer Orenstein (13:11):
still, yeah, it's just in your blood.
Piet Van Waarde (13:14):
And you were talking a little bit about what
you're getting started, but Iknow you still have.
You know you're very active inrecovery.
You still speak sometimes atsisterhood and things like that.
And I'm just curious becauseit's such.
I find it such an interestingtime to be in the church these
days.
You know what's happening withthe election, what's happening
(13:35):
culturally, and I'm just curiousfrom your perspective, what is
it that you're talking to peopleabout these days?
As you, as you, you knowbecause you're more, you know
you have your stage stuff, butyou're very much invested on the
one-on-one, the life-on-lifetype sharing.
And I'm curious is theresomething that you're talking to
(13:56):
people on a regular basis about, a theme maybe?
Jennifer Orenstein (14:02):
So I I tend not to jump into conflict,
honestly, yeah Well, at least Ithink that I tend not to jump in
the coffin.
I don't know, people mightargue that.
Piet Van Waarde (14:17):
Well, you don't have any trouble saying what
you feel, that's true Think.
Jennifer Orenstein (14:22):
So the political thing is in an arena
that I would necessarily like Idon't know.
Mike loves to have politicalconversations with his friends
and that's just not my jam, yeahhave political conversations
with his friends, and that'sjust not my jam, yeah.
So I've been spending a lot oftime studying this idea of sort
of contemplative Christianityand you know the way that Jesus
(14:45):
lived his life while he was hereon earth and the practices that
he himself put in to his ownlife, like his own habits, that
he built into his own life, tofurther his relation, his
connection to his father, butalso how he sort of maintained
his own sanity and wellness,like whole body wellness, you
(15:06):
know, physical, mental,emotional wellness.
And so I've been spending a lotof time just studying those
kinds of practices andintegrating them into my life a
little tiny bit at a time,because you know you just can't
jump into anything and get itdone in any kind of practical
way all at once.
Yeah, but because that'ssomething that's been so much at
(15:28):
the forefront of my mind, thattends to be what I like to talk
about a lot right now.
Yeah, yeah front of my mind.
That tends to be what I like totalk about a lot right now, you
know, is ways to sort of bringcalm and peace to your life and
sort of eliminate the shouldhaves.
Or what am I supposed to bedoing, or how am I supposed to
be feeling and kind of push allthat to the side and just be
like what was Jesus doing in hislife and how can I just be an
(15:52):
imitator of him?
You know, how can I let Godlove me and become a person of
love, and so that's kind of Ilove that.
Piet Van Waarde (16:03):
You know.
It reminds me when I firststarted thinking about ministry.
One of the things that kind offelt like a bedrock principle or
practice was that I wanted whatI did in ministry to come as an
overflow of my own walk withJesus.
(16:25):
And so, instead of kind ofthinking through the
programmatic grid, like let'ssee if we can create a program,
or let's listen to some othertalks and put together a talk
that feels inspired or practicalor helpful, to kind of take a
step back and say what is theLord doing in my own life and
(16:48):
remain on track with that, andthen, whatever subjects or
teachings or promptings you feelas it relates to your own
personal journey, let thatbecome the impetus for ministry.
Jennifer Orenstein (17:04):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (17:04):
Is that part of what you're finding as well?
Jennifer Orenstein (17:06):
That's often how I operate and I think a lot
of it for me comes out of thisdeep desire for authenticity in
every connection that I have.
I just have a really hard timefaking it.
I can't.
I'm not.
I don't have a poker face, I'mjust not that girl.
Piet Van Waarde (17:22):
That's just not who I am.
Jennifer Orenstein (17:24):
And so for me to sort of like conjecture or
try to, you know, rally up tosomething that I'm just either
not feeling or experiencingmyself is very difficult to then
try to communicate to someoneelse in any kind of meaningful
way.
I often find that it's muchbetter for me personally if I
want to connect with somebody,or if I'm trying to speak in
(17:48):
front of a crowd, or that Ispeak from a perspective of
something that I'm either havejust lived through or I'm
currently experiencing, orsomething God is currently
working with me on, and I justfeel so much better in that
space.
Piet Van Waarde (18:00):
Yeah, and I think it's something we have to
keep reminding ourselves aboutbecause, like when you're
involved in ministry, you don'talways have the opportunity to
create the perfect place for youto share, like oh, I've just
gone through this.
I mean sometimes you have tocome up with things, and I would
(18:22):
feel so convicted sometimeswhere I would be talking to
somebody about maybe things theyshould do or maybe things they
should consider, and I'm goinghome from that conversation.
And it's like how about you.
Do that, do your diary yeah,yeah exactly.
And I can feel and it's one ofthe things I so much enjoy about
(18:44):
you in terms of how you doministry is that I feel like
when you can give from a veryauthentic place, your presence
is as powerful as yourpresentation.
So when you hear people and youcan feel like there's something
that I you know, scripture talksabout our spirit bearing
(19:05):
witness with the spirit you knowthat that's not just something
that we experience vertically,it's something we experience
horizontally, where somebody issaying something and you feel
that what they're saying is sotrue and so genuine and so
authentic.
It's like who they are is.
Is this um powerful affirmationof what they're?
(19:27):
What they're saying?
And it's so different thansomebody who just has like a
cute little saying, or you knowthey said it in a memorable way,
you know alliteration orwhatever.
Jennifer Orenstein (19:40):
I spent a big part of my life sort of
faking fine, especially my adultlife, just in this space of
like I'm fine, everything's fine, it's all fine and you know, I
think that that is somethingthat God worked on me super hard
with over the last especiallyeight years, where he's like,
hey, we're not going to fakefine anymore, it's okay not to
(20:02):
be okay, but we're also going tolive authentically in front of
people and talk about the real,and that's honestly that is my
sweet spot, and I think somepeople get real uncomfortable
talking about things that arevery real and raw.
I love that.
I love that I have a reallyhard time talking about anything
that's super like fluff orsurface, like please don't try
(20:23):
to talk to me about the weatheror those.
Piet Van Waarde (20:25):
I'm so uncomfortable.
Jennifer Orenstein (20:27):
It's almost like opposite of what most
people experience when they'relike let's just keep this very
surface.
Piet Van Waarde (20:34):
I'm like no, tell me everything that's
happening in your life.
What are the hard things?
Well, in that spirit, when wewere getting ready for this chat
, I asked you if you'd bewilling to talk a little bit
about one of your struggles thatyou're kind of working through
right now regarding anxiety, andyou graciously said yeah, sure,
(20:55):
sure, I'm willing to talk alittle bit about that.
And so, um, yeah, what?
What is it that you're learningand what are some of the things
that you find helpful in thisjourney of dealing with anxious
thoughts?
Or when you're you're gettingready for something, you can
sense that anxiety building.
We were even talking about yourrecent flight, and you're like,
(21:16):
okay, you've got to prepare forthat.
So talk to us a little bitabout it.
Jennifer Orenstein (21:22):
Yeah, so I had never in my life experienced
anxiety until our son went toprison.
Honestly, anxiety was somethingthat Mike had sort of had his
whole life, and so I had kind ofwatched him journey through
that.
And I remember and I'veapologized for this profusely
many times but I rememberoccasionally telling him like,
just calm down.
And he was like, do you thinkthat if I could calm down I
(21:45):
would still not be calm?
Like, of course I would, but Icouldn't really get my brain
around it until I had sort ofwalked a mile in his shoes,
which I've been doing now for awhile, until I had sort of
walked a mile in his shoes,which I've been doing now for a
while.
So, yes, so anxiety has been Iguess you could call it the
current battle in my life, thething that I'm working through,
and a lot of it is just fear ofa variety of things.
(22:07):
Some of it is just the stage oflife that I'm in and some
chemical imbalance happening inmy own body which you just kind
of have to take your time andwork through that yeah right.
But some of it is trauma, and soI'm working with a cognitive
behavioral therapist to helprewire the neuropathways in my
(22:27):
brain that have sort of becomeincorrectly wired in a negative
way.
Piet Van Waarde (22:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (22:33):
And it is so beautiful how God created the
human body, and especially themind, to repair, if given the
opportunity.
Um.
So I've been really gratefulfor that experience of being
able to rewire my thoughts thatway.
Um, the things that I think aremost helpful are part of that
therapy.
Honestly, um, addressing thefear.
(22:54):
For a long time, if I was afraid, I would just stay quiet about
it, because it almost felt likeif I was going to say it out
loud it made it more scary.
Like, somehow, voicing the fearmade it scarier.
I kind of compare it to thisexperience I had several years
ago where I was, my Mike and theboys and I were at Lake Travis
(23:15):
and we were kind of at a bay andthey got this idea that they
wanted to swim from one side ofthe bay to the other side of the
bay and they're very strongswimmers.
But I was like yeah, it's notthat far, it doesn't seem that
far, I could totally do that.
So we all got in the water andstarted to swim across the bay
and I got about halfway before Irealized like, yeah, this is
really far and obviously youcan't reach the bottom.
(23:37):
It's very deep there, you know.
And so you're just sort of inthis moment of, you know,
confronting this thought thatlike I'm equally as far from one
shore as I am from the otherand I'm very tired, and in that
moment I thought like I'm justgoing to drown, like I will
literally just go under thewater and drown right here and
nobody's gonna even noticebecause I'm not gonna say a word
(24:00):
, and and in that moment it feltso scary for me to be like hey,
you guys, I'm very tired, Idon't know if I'm gonna make it
across, and I kept my mouthquiet and and I didn't say
anything and ultimately I got tothe other side, but but I was
crying my eyes out by the time Igot to the other side and Mike
and the boys were like what'swrong with you?
Because they had no idea what Ihad been experiencing, that
(24:21):
whole time and I was like I'm soscared, I was so tired and I
didn't feel like I could bethere, like if you would have
just said something, we wouldhave helped you across.
(24:45):
Why didn't you just say it?
But I think that's the lie,that we believe that if we say
something out loud, if we tellsomebody the really hard thing,
that they're going to reject usor that that's going to make it
harder or more difficult, whenthe reality is, that will
actually alleviate some of thepressure and some of the fear.
So the idea in a lot of thetherapy that I'm doing is sort
of just to speak the fear outloud and then talk about, like
what do I need in that momentthat I'm feeling afraid?
And then talk about like whatdo I need in that moment that
I'm feeling afraid?
Do I need thoughts of likeguardianship?
You know like that God is myprotector?
Do I need thoughts that God ismy comforter?
(25:05):
You know, like, what do I needin those moments?
And then just to fill my mindwith scriptures that affirm the
thing that I need you know thatGod is my shelter, that I can
run to him and be saved, or youknow any of those kinds of
things.
I write this all down and thenI reframe the moment that I'm
having, where I'm like is thistruly?
Am I really in alife-threatening situation?
No, and also, god is my shield,he's my protector, he never
(25:30):
leaves me, he doesn't forsake me.
He'll walk with me through thiswhole thing.
You know, like you're talkingabout flying, like God's going
with me on the plane.
He's not leaving me as I boardthe plane and staying in the
airport.
Piet Van Waarde (25:41):
You know what I mean.
Jennifer Orenstein (25:42):
And it's not harder for God to care for me
because I'm on an airplane thanit is when I'm standing on solid
ground.
Like God is powerful and ableto care for me no matter the
situation, to care for me nomatter the situation, and so
sort of reframing those thoughtsinto a way that is encouraging
and affirming and gives yourbrain a positive direction to
think about it, and so I've beendoing that for three months now
(26:04):
and it's a process to heal theneural pathways of your brain,
but I can say that they arehealing.
That's awesome, yeah, and I amnow.
When I have those moments offear or anxiety, the positive
thoughts come before thenegative thoughts can take over
Nice, and I'm super grateful forthat.
So that's one thing.
Piet Van Waarde (26:24):
Can I just respond to that?
Jennifer Orenstein (26:26):
Sure.
Piet Van Waarde (26:27):
One of the things that I found in working
with people over the years andI'm sure you've seen the same
thing is that people I thinkespecially in the Christian
community feel some obligationto remain positive.
Like if they are feeling bad,they feel like they have to do
(26:50):
their positive confessions andthat the positive confession
alone will bring them to abetter place.
But one of the things I lovethat you just said and I found
this to be true so often is ifyou can actually begin by naming
the fear and what's reallygoing on.
Because I think that'ssometimes half the problem we're
really not sure what's going on.
(27:11):
I just feel badly or I feelanger, and it's a very
generalized feeling.
But if we can kind of digunderneath and say, well, what's
really going on here and beingable to name it, then I know
where I need to go to get theanswer for it.
(27:32):
I know what it is I'm lookingfor and then I can find in
scripture or by the comfort ofthe Holy Spirit, a practice or a
principle or an idea that willhelp to battle with that thing.
That's not that you know, it'skind of gotten messed up in my
thinking.
Jennifer Orenstein (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, I think too, if you find
yourself in that place whereanxiety or anxious thoughts
really have a grip on you, itdoes help to work with a
therapist who can kind of helptalk through like hey, how did I
arrive here?
That was one of I felt likeanxiety came upon me suddenly
and I couldn't understand.
Like I didn't have anxietyyesterday, now I have it today
(28:05):
and it won't go away.
Like I explained that, to me.
Piet Van Waarde (28:07):
How does that happen?
Jennifer Orenstein (28:09):
But to sit down with somebody who you know
is trauma informed and can helpyou sort of pick at the threads
a little bit of that and sort ofunravel them and understand For
me understanding brings greatcomfort.
Piet Van Waarde (28:23):
Yes.
Jennifer Orenstein (28:24):
So, if I can be like, oh, okay.
I understand now where thosefeelings are coming from or
where that thought came from.
Those feelings are coming fromor where that thought came from,
and I understand that.
You know I need some healing inthat area, you know, and and
some prayer or just someconversation about that has been
super helpful to me to workwith a therapist that is
(28:45):
compassionate in that way andhas helped me sort of unravel
the threads of my own brain andmy own life experiences and
trauma, especially of the lastfew years, and put some
concreteness behind thevagueness of anxiety and also
the reassurance that I'm notactually going crazy but that
(29:06):
trauma is real and that it justtakes care and time but it's
also it's possible to heal fromyes so to have that hopeful
voice too has been so goodthat's great yeah, yeah.
And then there's some you knowsome actual physical things you
can do to help activate yourparasympathetic nervous system
pressure points.
(29:26):
Cold plunging is actuallyreally good for that, yes, yes,
um.
Piet Van Waarde (29:33):
Are you doing it now?
Jennifer Orenstein (29:34):
I am, I been cold plunging Not?
Piet Van Waarde (29:37):
as cold as you're cold plunging.
Are you doing it in the bathtub?
Jennifer Orenstein (29:42):
No, I actually bought a little cold
plunge pod.
It's the kind you have to putice in.
But it's small enough that youcan put four or five bags of ice
and get the water down in the60s, the low 60s, and so just
get in and yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (29:56):
Nice.
Jennifer Orenstein (29:56):
Yeah, so that's helpful.
Piet Van Waarde (29:58):
Next thing you know you're going to be doing 40
.
Jennifer Orenstein (30:00):
I don't know , I don't know, I don't know,
it's so cool.
Piet Van Waarde (30:06):
It just feels so good to say it.
That's half the reason I do it.
I'm really like, but somedayI'll be able to say I've done 44
, 42, 38.
Jennifer Orenstein (30:15):
I don't know , that's not even a goal.
Piet Van Waarde (30:16):
For me right now it's like a polar plunge.
Anyway, off track, go ahead.
Jennifer Orenstein (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, you know, eating right is, you
know, that mind-body connectionof nourishing your body is good
for your mental health andgetting adequate sleep and
exercise, all of, I think,things that you've also
discovered in your own journeywith you know, cancer healing,
all of these things are alsogood for mental health, and so
you know, these are things thatI and and I think the hardest
(30:47):
part is just being intentionaland regimented about it, where I
know what my body needs in aday and I just have to um, make
that a priority to give it that.
So that.
I can actually heal my brainand move forward for this season
.
Piet Van Waarde (31:03):
So, yeah, thank you for risking sharing that
you know, because it's verypersonal.
Jennifer Orenstein (31:10):
Well, I mean , if God doesn't use this for
something, I'd be reallyirritated.
It can't just be for me.
Piet Van Waarde (31:20):
All right, so um anything else that you're
learning that you'd want toshare about, talk about Um,
trying to think.
if there's anything else, Ithink um while you're thinking,
one, one of the things andyou've kind of already touched
on it, but I want to draw itback out um, we, we do a
(31:43):
newsletter together, so you'reone of several contributors to
my weekly newsletter called thehealing chronicle.
Um, and if you happen to beinterested in receiving it, we
can make sure that that happens.
You can just go toPeteVanWardcom slash newsletter
and sign up for that.
But your role in thatnewsletter is soul care and so
(32:08):
you're kind of talking about,like, as you're dealing with
whatever physical malady you'reprocessing, there's also a
spiritual, obvious spiritualemotional connection and if you
want to heal fully, you want tojust make sure you're dealing
with all of it Sure.
(32:29):
And so I'm curious becausethey're so good.
Every time I read it I'm like Ihope people read this.
So rich.
And I do get quite a fewcomments about it.
So thank you for doing that,but where did some of those
ideas come from?
What is it that you like?
What are you tapping into whenyou are thinking about writing
(32:51):
for that?
Jennifer Orenstein (32:52):
Yeah, so a lot of times it's just what I'm
living in that exact moment,like, hey, what either?
Like what did God speak to metoday?
I do a lot of verse mappingwhen I'm in scripture, so I'll
just take a single verse andI'll just pick it apart and I'll
go back to, like, the Hebrew orthe Greek and then I'll
meditate on it and I'll ask Godto show me what he wants me to
take away from that specificverse.
(33:13):
And and I, I have this bookthat I write it all down with,
and sometimes I'll even getcreative with it and like draw
and just sort of likeincorporate the whole mind into
that experience.
Um and so, sometimes it's that,sometimes it's, you know,
something God showed me inscripture.
Um, sometimes it's somethingthat I myself am really trying
(33:33):
to overcome.
I think I did one on fear,where I was, you know, talking
about actual things that I wasusing in that moment to work
through the fear.
In my own life, there was onewhere I was happened to be with
my middle son, who's 20.
He's about to turn 29 next weekand I literally just said to
him what should I write aboutthis week?
And what was so crazy is he waslike immediately came up with
(33:56):
something.
Piet Van Waarde (33:57):
He's like.
Jennifer Orenstein (33:57):
I think you should write about this and I
was like that's an amazing idea,and so I just wrote.
I am grateful that if I have anidea, I can usually get
thoughts down on paper fairlyquickly, so I'm grateful for
that part where I'm not like, oh, have writer's block.
Sometimes I just sit in thequiet and I asked the Lord what
is it you want to speak?
This week I find myself a lotof the time sort of at the end
(34:20):
of myself, and that doesn'tnecessarily scare me.
I don't, in and of myself, havea whole lot to say that I think
is all that valuable, but Iknow you probably have something
that you want to communicate.
So if you'll just tell me whatthat is, I'll be happy to write
about it.
Piet Van Waarde (34:41):
I'm going to take an issue with the first
part of what you said.
Jennifer Orenstein (34:43):
I think you always have something very
valuable to contribute.
Thank you.
Well, that's good, that's good.
Piet Van Waarde (34:47):
Well, thank you for doing it.
And it is.
It is I'm not just saying thatbecause you're here.
It really is very good and lovethe way you process about your
spirituality.
And I think it's really helpfulfor people who are in my
position of trying to heal andothers in that place too.
Jennifer Orenstein (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, love that.
Piet Van Waarde (35:06):
Anything else.
Jennifer Orenstein (35:07):
I mean, I think the thing that came to my
mind when you asked me a fewminutes ago is and I was talking
with my parents about this lastnight but just this idea that
we live in such a noisy, busyworld and alone is a really
strange concept.
So I think there are people outthere that are very, very
(35:28):
lonely.
So I'm not trying to minimizethat experience at all.
But I think the tendency for alot of people is to try to fill
that quiet space with anythingat all that will get them
through the quiet, and somethingthat I'm working on you mean
like this yes, yes, exactly that, or the TV or any number of
(35:49):
things.
And I think one thing I'mworking on in my own life right
now is just sort of allowingmyself, partly because my
husband has been traveling so,so much and so I have a lot of
alone time at the house and Itend to fill it with busy like
housework type things, just tokind of keep my mind and body
busy.
Piet Van Waarde (36:09):
Yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (36:10):
But I really hear the Lord saying like it's
okay to just be still, yeah, andI mean I know we know the Bible
says that like be still andknow that I am God.
But I really think that that'simportant to have moments in
each day where you really arejust still and you're not trying
(36:35):
to feel that quiet, asuncomfortable as it might be,
with noise or entertainment ordistraction or busyness or
whatever, and you just allow.
I think the initial first fewminutes are very difficult as
your brain tries to come out ofthe space that our world and our
culture keeps it in.
But after that, I think there'ssuch great potential for just
sitting with God and trulyknowing and feeling that he is
God, that he has things undercontrol, that he is going to
(36:56):
carry you through whatever it isyou're going through, and even
though it feels like it's easierand more comfortable to feel
that quiet space with otherthings, it really is.
There's such potential for goodin just being in the quiet with
God.
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (37:11):
And I just want to for those who would find
that like I'm a more extrovertedperson, so the thought of just
sitting, by myself feels liketorture in some ways, and so one
of the things that's kind ofhelped me get over the hump is
to take advantage of naturaltimes when I could do that.
(37:34):
In other words, so right nowI'm in a 10 minute plunge, right
, so just say I say Lord forthese 10 minutes to help me get
through this experience.
I'm just I'm not going tolisten to music, I'm just going
to sit here in the quiet and ifthere's something you want to
say to me, I want to listen.
(37:56):
So it's not just that I'm in achair doing it, I'm like I have
this practice of 10 minutes inthe plunge and I can use that.
Jennifer Orenstein (38:03):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (38:06):
Or instead of turning on the radio when you're
going somewhere, to actuallyjust say, lord, obviously I want
to pay attention to the roadand do all that, but I'm also
just not going to distractmyself with something else.
Whether it's the phone or radio, I want to turn it off.
Jennifer Orenstein (38:25):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (38:26):
I also have this breathing exercise.
I do the Wim Hof breathing,which is basically like deep
breathing and holding yourbreath for a 10-minute block,
doing a series of differentkinds of breathing, and even
then it's like okay, lord, Iwant to use this time Like I'm
breathing in, breathing out,breathing out stress, breathing
(38:49):
in the work of the Spirit.
I actually say things like thatto myself, so that it feels to
me like that's a more doablething than just kind of sitting
on a couch with the lights off.
Jennifer Orenstein (39:07):
Yeah, I also use time in the car.
Yeah, Typically that would belike podcast listening time for
me, but lately I've just beenlike, no, I'm just going to
obviously pay attention to theroad, but I'm just going to
allow God to have this time andif there's something he wants to
communicate with me, thenthat's amazing.
If not, I'll just sit in hispresence for a little bit.
(39:27):
Being the introvert that I am, Ialso go sit on my back patio,
and I do just because it'scloser to nature there, and I
always feel closer to God whenI'm in nature just to have those
few moments on the back patiowhere I observe creation.
And you know like all of thiswas put into play by God's own
hand.
And you know, when I wasfeeling fearful of flying, I sat
(39:49):
on the back patio and I watchedthe birds and I realized, like
God is the inventor of flightand I have nothing to be afraid
of.
Like that thought came to me ina moment of quiet sitting on
the back patio.
So, yeah, yeah.
So as an introvert it's alittle, I think a little bit
easier for me.
But I also tend to want todistract myself, and so I just
(40:14):
try to be really intentional.
I think the world is screamingreally loud for our attention
right now and they're giving ittheir all, and we just have to
be so mindful that we keep oureyes on Jesus.
Piet Van Waarde (40:28):
And I think that I've had those moments
where, when I'm intentionalabout saying, lord, I'll wait
for you to speak, if there's aword that comes during that
moment, that one word or thatone phrase or that one sensation
(40:49):
serves me so well.
Oftentimes, I think people Iknow this was true for me, I
think, but it's.
I think it's generally truepeople have this thing of like
okay, I'm just going to sit hereand be quiet and then my mind's
going to wander to what we'regoing to have for dinner tonight
yeah, the rest of the day it'sso real.
(41:10):
Oh my gosh, I haven't paid thatyet, you know yeah but and and
that's all normal.
Jennifer Orenstein (41:16):
It just happens.
Piet Van Waarde (41:17):
But if you can find yourself saying and say
like Lord, no, seriously, I'mhere.
Yeah, If you want to saysomething to me, I am listening.
Jennifer Orenstein (41:27):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (41:28):
And then something you know not all the
time, but something will drop.
And it's like ah, you know,like the thing you talked about
with the bird.
Yeah, you know like God createdflight, Just that one idea yeah
can be so transformativeabsolutely in the moment and
then for the rest of your dayyeah, absolutely.
Jennifer Orenstein (41:45):
Which is the payoff?
Piet Van Waarde (41:46):
you know it's like yes and I think the enemy
obviously knows that and that'swhy I think he works so hard to
keep us distracted andpreoccupied with so many other
things, because he knows themagic of having a good word.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:00):
Right, because think of the place he
can get us into if we don't hearGod's voice.
Piet Van Waarde (42:05):
Yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:06):
You know, and we are only hearing other
voices.
Piet Van Waarde (42:10):
Culture yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:11):
Yeah, it's so important that we have
moments where we really justhear God's voice for ourselves.
Piet Van Waarde (42:18):
So, yeah.
Well, I think that's a greatplace to end.
Okay, all right, thank you, jen.
If people are interested, like,let's say, are you still open
to having clients come?
Jennifer Orenstein (42:30):
Yes, I would like to add a couple more
clients.
Piet Van Waarde (42:33):
Okay, so how would people get in touch with
you?
Jennifer Orenstein (42:40):
couple more clients.
Okay, so how would people getin touch with you?
So you can email me atjenniferat236.com, and you're
probably going to ask me tospell that and I'm not going to
be able to come up with it righthere on the fly.
Piet Van Waarde (42:48):
All right, well , we'll put it in the show notes
and people want to get in touchwith you about that.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:52):
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear from people.
Piet Van Waarde (42:54):
All right.
Thank you so much for doingthis, thanks for having me and
thank you all for joining us.
It's been great to have you,preston.
Thanks for your good work.
You didn't mess anything uptoday.
We're so proud of you.
Jennifer Orenstein (43:07):
He never messes up.
It's usually right here.
Piet Van Waarde (43:12):
All right, thank you.
See you next time.
All right, well , we're ready to go, then, I
guess.
Well, thank you for joining usfor another episode of Sidewalk
Conversations.
We are in season.
What is it, preston?
What season are we in?
We're in season three, and eachtime we make some adjustments
in our setup, and I think we areat our best right now, and I'm
(00:22):
certainly at my best today,because I have a wonderful guest
.
She was with me in season one,one of my first guests.
So, jennifer, welcome.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Jennifer Orenstein (00:33):
Thanks for asking me back.
Piet Van Waarde (00:35):
Yes, that's always a good sign when somebody
asks you back.
It's like yeah, I guess Ididn't suck too bad, so it's
good to have you.
So I want to jump right in,because we have a lot of
material to cover today.
Jennifer Orenstein (00:49):
Okay, let's do it.
Piet Van Waarde (00:51):
First of all, why don't you give a little
background For those who mightbe joining us who don't know you
very well or may not haveremembered what you talked about
last time?
But you were in ministry at achurch.
We were on the same staff atShoreline, and you've made some
transitions since then.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you're doing.
Jennifer Orenstein (01:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So I was on staff at church foreight years the better part of
eight years and that season sortof came to a very peaceful end.
I felt like it was definitelylike just a page turning and it
was time to do it's nice when itcan be that way.
I know it's not always that way.
(01:35):
I felt very peaceful andsettled about it, and it wasn't
like God was pushing me out, butI just felt like, yeah, the
season is coming to an end andthere are new things on the
horizon, and so I'm reallygrateful that it went that way.
Piet Van Waarde (01:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (01:53):
Yeah, so of course I started my own business
a little over a year ago.
Piet Van Waarde (01:58):
Which I think is always kind of a little bit
of a risky venture right,Because it's one thing to go
from one job and a securepaycheck to another job and a
secure paycheck.
But when you do theentrepreneurial thing, it's a
whole new thought, a little lesssecure.
Jennifer Orenstein (02:14):
I guess what prompted that I don't know, and
it's funny to hear you say likea risky venture, because that
was nowhere in my thoughts whenI was starting that business.
Piet Van Waarde (02:25):
That it was risky.
Jennifer Orenstein (02:27):
That it was risky.
Yeah, I wasn't feeling thatsense of riskiness about it at
all.
I just felt like the um, I feltlike everything had just lined
up, almost as though it wereordained that way and almost
like that, and I felt like I hadthe skill set for it and the
experience and the knowledge.
(02:48):
And you know, the only thingthat was, I guess, maybe a
little bit scary was willanybody hire me?
Piet Van Waarde (02:55):
So what's the work you do?
Jennifer Orenstein (02:57):
So I am a virtual executive assistant.
So I work completely remotelyfrom home for a variety of
clients, primarily just doingexecutive assistant type things.
So all of those things that goalong with that.
Piet Van Waarde (03:11):
Which is not that, and maybe this is probably
where you had some confidence.
You were very administrativelyoccupied at church so you had
events and ministry coordinationand that kind of thing, and so
there was probably a comfortlevel that you felt with doing
that executive type assistingwork right.
Jennifer Orenstein (03:29):
Yes, very much in my comfort zone and in
my background, going back evenbefore ministry.
That is the kind of work that Idid and so it felt very
comfortable and natural to meand I felt like, again, I had
the skill set for it and theexperience.
So, um, so, yeah, I guess thebig risk was, would anybody hire
me?
And then it happened so fastthat people hired me that I was
(03:51):
like wait what?
I did and thank you and you'vebeen great so people started
hiring me and that was justalmost mind blowing to me, like,
hey, people will actually liketrust me to do this for them,
and so I've just been sograteful for the clients that I
have and yeah, yeah so that wasa little over a year ago.
(04:13):
Um, it's going great.
I love it.
I love what I get to do forpeople.
Um, and then the Lord hasplanted some new thoughts and
ideas in my heart as well asMike, my husband's heart also,
and so, um, those things aresort of in their sort of
inception still where we're kindof like putting the pieces
(04:35):
together and, um working them tobe sort of like fully grown,
wow, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (04:41):
Awesome.
Jennifer Orenstein (04:41):
Yeah, which I'm very, very excited about
that.
Piet Van Waarde (04:44):
Next, Is that ministry related or is that
another business venture?
Jennifer Orenstein (04:47):
It will be ministry related.
Um.
As you know, but probably somepeople who are listening might
not know our son, um, has beenincarcerated for um over eight
years now and was finallyapproved for parole in June, and
um we'll be coming home inprobably just under a year.
Piet Van Waarde (05:04):
Thank, you, Lord, I know finally.
Jennifer Orenstein (05:09):
And so when we found out that he was
approved for parole which hadbeen a huge answer to prayer, of
course the first thing Istarted doing, just because this
is my nature, is researching tosee what resources are out
there that we could maybe learnfrom people who have walked this
road before us families whohave had a loved one come home
from incarceration even likeministries that exist out there
(05:29):
to support families in that.
And what we found was literallynothing.
There was nothing out there.
On the family side, you knowwhere you could really have
somebody come alongside you andbe like, hey, here's how you
need to start preparing yourheart and your mind and your
household and the siblings andall of these things and
grandparents you know the whole.
Piet Van Waarde (05:48):
Thing.
Jennifer Orenstein (05:50):
And it was sort of startling to us that
there was really nothing for usto glean from in that sense, and
so in that moment we just feltlike God was like well, here you
are about to walk through thisprocess, so write it all down
and you be the resource forpeople who come behind you.
Piet Van Waarde (06:12):
Good for you and I can so identify with that
because I felt a very similarkind of prompting related to the
cancer journey.
You know, same kind of dealwhere you have the sense that
part of how God redeemssuffering is by putting you in a
place where you can be of helpto others.
Jennifer Orenstein (06:30):
Exactly, exactly.
And one of the verses God gaveto me early, early on in this
journey with our son is theverse about you know the God of
all comfort, comforting you sothat you may comfort others with
the same comfort you've beengiven Right.
Piet Van Waarde (06:42):
Keep coming back to that too.
Jennifer Orenstein (06:43):
Yes, yes, and at first I really like I
hate to say this, but I kind ofhated that verse because I was
like I don't care how this isgoing to be used.
But, now like I get it.
Piet Van Waarde (06:53):
Yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (06:53):
And I do think that you know God has
appointed this season in ourlife for this purpose, and he's
been very intentional and directabout what it should look like
and how we should spend ourefforts on it, and so we're in
the process of writing a bookand starting a nonprofit Good
(07:15):
for you.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's kind of ministry-wise, that's sort of what's next for
us.
Of course, celebrate Recoverystill exists.
Piet Van Waarde (07:22):
You're still active in that, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (07:24):
And that, I think, will always be a home for
me and a place where I feelsafe and connected, and so I'm
super grateful for that too Cool.
Piet Van Waarde (07:32):
Yeah, Well, going back to the business
venture, we're going to comeback to ministry too, but before
we get too far off that topic.
So you've made this transitionto virtual executive assisting
and I'm just curious what haveyou enjoyed most about that
transition?
Because I'm sure there arethings about ministry that you
(07:56):
miss and church life and staffand stuff like that.
So maybe we'll get to thatlater.
But in terms of the best partof this transition, what have
you enjoyed most about making it?
Jennifer Orenstein (08:07):
The thing that I love the most about what
I'm doing now is the ability toinvest in other people's dreams
and visions and even for some ofmy clients, to be able to sit
down and vision cast with themand be like hey, how do you want
to grow?
you know your organization oryour ministry over the next six,
eight months, 12 months and youknow what would that look like
(08:29):
for us.
To partner together in that andjust getting to hear people's
dreams about you know their ownministries or organizations and
to get to be a small part ofseeing those things come to life
is so life-giving to me.
Just to sort of be in thebackground and do I mean what I
do is helpful for sure, but um,to watch how the whole thing
(08:49):
kind of comes together and seedreams come to life has been
like the greatest thing for me.
Piet Van Waarde (08:55):
Just to watch that Well, and you've been good
at that, like we've done acouple of those sessions as well
and always appreciated your,your, perspective.
Yeah, Um what's the hardestpart?
Jennifer Orenstein (09:07):
What has been difficult, I think the
hardest part, and I don't know.
I haven't owned very manybusinesses, but you're your own
boss, you know, and so the onlymotivation you're getting is
yourself, right, and so,thankfully, I really operate on
the planner side of things, andso I'm very regimented in how my
days are organized and how Ibreak up tasks throughout a week
(09:29):
.
But again, I'm the only personwho's telling me what has to get
done, and so I thinkoccasionally I'm like you know I
don't really have to.
There's nobody here watching,so you have to be your own
accountability.
You know, and you have toremember that people are still
depending on you, even thoughyou're remote, you know, and
(09:52):
there are still deadlines andthere are still expectations,
and you know you always want tohonor what your promises and all
of those things, but the onlyperson holding you to that is
yourself.
So for me it works.
I don't know if it would workfor everyone, and there are days
when I'm like, yeah, this istough today.
I'd really rather just hang outand read.
(10:15):
Maybe I don't know.
Piet Van Waarde (10:18):
So if you were giving advice to somebody who is
maybe similarly oriented to hey, I think I'm in a season where
I'm ready to do something on myown and try something.
Is there any advice you wouldgive about that?
Jennifer Orenstein (10:30):
I mean, I think there are so many factors
behind it.
I don't know what everybody'sfinancial position is, and I
think in some sense I was alittle bit privileged in that I
have Mike who carries thebiggest part of our financial
burden as a family you know andreally provides for us, and I'm
super, super grateful for that.
But I also feel like when allthe pieces feel like they're
(10:53):
coming together in that momentand you're having sort of that
risky, would anybody ever hireme?
Piet Van Waarde (10:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (10:59):
Moment that the only way to know is to do.
You know to take the risk, putyourself out there, let people
know what you're interested indoing and, by and large, I find
that people who are in yourcommunity already are just
naturally excited for new thingsthat are happening in the lives
of their friends.
And whether they'll hire you ornot, you know they'll get
behind you and they'll championyour cause and they'll be your
(11:22):
advertisers, you know, and solike.
Don't underestimate thecommunity that you have around
and the power behind that andthe ability to to launch a
business just out of that.
I haven't done a significantamount of like marketing or
website development, as far asthat goes, to get my business
going, um and, and I think a lot.
So much of it happens, you know, naturally through connections
(11:46):
that already exist.
Piet Van Waarde (11:48):
One of the things I saw you do that I
thought was really smart was youwent from full-time to
part-time when you were on staffand in that part-time role you
started kind of fishing forclients and bringing some people
on.
So the transition wasn't likestop here, jump fully in.
(12:08):
No life preserver, no nothing.
Jennifer Orenstein (12:13):
Yeah, that was more for my husband than it
was for me, okay, but it washelpful.
That was that I think that togive yourself permission to do a
slow transition, if that's whatyou need on the financial side
of things, that did help uswhere I went down to essentially
half-time in ministry, and thento be able to build up.
Piet Van Waarde (12:33):
Half-time pay you mean yes, exactly.
Anybody who's been in ministryknows there's never really
part-time work.
Jennifer Orenstein (12:45):
But then to be able to build up the business
so that it covered thathalftime loss essentially you
know, pay loss and then tofigure out from there like okay,
it's taking this many hours orthese many clients, and to give
yourself like that space tofigure it out Like you don't
have to know the answer to everysingle question right out of
the gate.
Piet Van Waarde (13:05):
Yeah, yeah, awesome.
Jennifer Orenstein (13:06):
So yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (13:07):
All right Now.
I know you are very muchministry oriented.
Jennifer Orenstein (13:11):
still, yeah, it's just in your blood.
Piet Van Waarde (13:14):
And you were talking a little bit about what
you're getting started, but Iknow you still have.
You know you're very active inrecovery.
You still speak sometimes atsisterhood and things like that.
And I'm just curious becauseit's such.
I find it such an interestingtime to be in the church these
days.
You know what's happening withthe election, what's happening
(13:35):
culturally, and I'm just curiousfrom your perspective, what is
it that you're talking to peopleabout these days?
As you, as you, you knowbecause you're more, you know
you have your stage stuff, butyou're very much invested on the
one-on-one, the life-on-lifetype sharing.
And I'm curious is theresomething that you're talking to
(13:56):
people on a regular basis about, a theme maybe?
Jennifer Orenstein (14:02):
So I I tend not to jump into conflict,
honestly, yeah Well, at least Ithink that I tend not to jump in
the coffin.
I don't know, people mightargue that.
Piet Van Waarde (14:17):
Well, you don't have any trouble saying what
you feel, that's true Think.
Jennifer Orenstein (14:22):
So the political thing is in an arena
that I would necessarily like Idon't know.
Mike loves to have politicalconversations with his friends
and that's just not my jam, yeahhave political conversations
with his friends, and that'sjust not my jam, yeah.
So I've been spending a lot oftime studying this idea of sort
of contemplative Christianityand you know the way that Jesus
(14:45):
lived his life while he was hereon earth and the practices that
he himself put in to his ownlife, like his own habits, that
he built into his own life, tofurther his relation, his
connection to his father, butalso how he sort of maintained
his own sanity and wellness,like whole body wellness, you
(15:06):
know, physical, mental,emotional wellness.
And so I've been spending a lotof time just studying those
kinds of practices andintegrating them into my life a
little tiny bit at a time,because you know you just can't
jump into anything and get itdone in any kind of practical
way all at once.
Yeah, but because that'ssomething that's been so much at
(15:28):
the forefront of my mind, thattends to be what I like to talk
about a lot right now.
Yeah, yeah front of my mind.
That tends to be what I like totalk about a lot right now, you
know, is ways to sort of bringcalm and peace to your life and
sort of eliminate the shouldhaves.
Or what am I supposed to bedoing, or how am I supposed to
be feeling and kind of push allthat to the side and just be
like what was Jesus doing in hislife and how can I just be an
(15:52):
imitator of him?
You know, how can I let Godlove me and become a person of
love, and so that's kind of Ilove that.
Piet Van Waarde (16:03):
You know.
It reminds me when I firststarted thinking about ministry.
One of the things that kind offelt like a bedrock principle or
practice was that I wanted whatI did in ministry to come as an
overflow of my own walk withJesus.
(16:25):
And so, instead of kind ofthinking through the
programmatic grid, like let'ssee if we can create a program,
or let's listen to some othertalks and put together a talk
that feels inspired or practicalor helpful, to kind of take a
step back and say what is theLord doing in my own life and
(16:48):
remain on track with that, andthen, whatever subjects or
teachings or promptings you feelas it relates to your own
personal journey, let thatbecome the impetus for ministry.
Jennifer Orenstein (17:04):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (17:04):
Is that part of what you're finding as well?
Jennifer Orenstein (17:06):
That's often how I operate and I think a lot
of it for me comes out of thisdeep desire for authenticity in
every connection that I have.
I just have a really hard timefaking it.
I can't.
I'm not.
I don't have a poker face, I'mjust not that girl.
Piet Van Waarde (17:22):
That's just not who I am.
Jennifer Orenstein (17:24):
And so for me to sort of like conjecture or
try to, you know, rally up tosomething that I'm just either
not feeling or experiencingmyself is very difficult to then
try to communicate to someoneelse in any kind of meaningful
way.
I often find that it's muchbetter for me personally if I
want to connect with somebody,or if I'm trying to speak in
(17:48):
front of a crowd, or that Ispeak from a perspective of
something that I'm either havejust lived through or I'm
currently experiencing, orsomething God is currently
working with me on, and I justfeel so much better in that
space.
Piet Van Waarde (18:00):
Yeah, and I think it's something we have to
keep reminding ourselves aboutbecause, like when you're
involved in ministry, you don'talways have the opportunity to
create the perfect place for youto share, like oh, I've just
gone through this.
I mean sometimes you have tocome up with things, and I would
(18:22):
feel so convicted sometimeswhere I would be talking to
somebody about maybe things theyshould do or maybe things they
should consider, and I'm goinghome from that conversation.
And it's like how about you.
Do that, do your diary yeah,yeah exactly.
And I can feel and it's one ofthe things I so much enjoy about
(18:44):
you in terms of how you doministry is that I feel like
when you can give from a veryauthentic place, your presence
is as powerful as yourpresentation.
So when you hear people and youcan feel like there's something
that I you know, scripture talksabout our spirit bearing
(19:05):
witness with the spirit you knowthat that's not just something
that we experience vertically,it's something we experience
horizontally, where somebody issaying something and you feel
that what they're saying is sotrue and so genuine and so
authentic.
It's like who they are is.
Is this um powerful affirmationof what they're?
(19:27):
What they're saying?
And it's so different thansomebody who just has like a
cute little saying, or you knowthey said it in a memorable way,
you know alliteration orwhatever.
Jennifer Orenstein (19:40):
I spent a big part of my life sort of
faking fine, especially my adultlife, just in this space of
like I'm fine, everything's fine, it's all fine and you know, I
think that that is somethingthat God worked on me super hard
with over the last especiallyeight years, where he's like,
hey, we're not going to fakefine anymore, it's okay not to
(20:02):
be okay, but we're also going tolive authentically in front of
people and talk about the real,and that's honestly that is my
sweet spot, and I think somepeople get real uncomfortable
talking about things that arevery real and raw.
I love that.
I love that I have a reallyhard time talking about anything
that's super like fluff orsurface, like please don't try
(20:23):
to talk to me about the weatheror those.
Piet Van Waarde (20:25):
I'm so uncomfortable.
Jennifer Orenstein (20:27):
It's almost like opposite of what most
people experience when they'relike let's just keep this very
surface.
Piet Van Waarde (20:34):
I'm like no, tell me everything that's
happening in your life.
What are the hard things?
Well, in that spirit, when wewere getting ready for this chat
, I asked you if you'd bewilling to talk a little bit
about one of your struggles thatyou're kind of working through
right now regarding anxiety, andyou graciously said yeah, sure,
(20:55):
sure, I'm willing to talk alittle bit about that.
And so, um, yeah, what?
What is it that you're learningand what are some of the things
that you find helpful in thisjourney of dealing with anxious
thoughts?
Or when you're you're gettingready for something, you can
sense that anxiety building.
We were even talking about yourrecent flight, and you're like,
(21:16):
okay, you've got to prepare forthat.
So talk to us a little bitabout it.
Jennifer Orenstein (21:22):
Yeah, so I had never in my life experienced
anxiety until our son went toprison.
Honestly, anxiety was somethingthat Mike had sort of had his
whole life, and so I had kind ofwatched him journey through
that.
And I remember and I'veapologized for this profusely
many times but I rememberoccasionally telling him like,
just calm down.
And he was like, do you thinkthat if I could calm down I
(21:45):
would still not be calm?
Like, of course I would, but Icouldn't really get my brain
around it until I had sort ofwalked a mile in his shoes,
which I've been doing now for awhile, until I had sort of
walked a mile in his shoes,which I've been doing now for a
while.
So, yes, so anxiety has been Iguess you could call it the
current battle in my life, thething that I'm working through,
and a lot of it is just fear ofa variety of things.
(22:07):
Some of it is just the stage oflife that I'm in and some
chemical imbalance happening inmy own body which you just kind
of have to take your time andwork through that yeah right.
But some of it is trauma, and soI'm working with a cognitive
behavioral therapist to helprewire the neuropathways in my
(22:27):
brain that have sort of becomeincorrectly wired in a negative
way.
Piet Van Waarde (22:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (22:33):
And it is so beautiful how God created the
human body, and especially themind, to repair, if given the
opportunity.
Um.
So I've been really gratefulfor that experience of being
able to rewire my thoughts thatway.
Um, the things that I think aremost helpful are part of that
therapy.
Honestly, um, addressing thefear.
(22:54):
For a long time, if I was afraid, I would just stay quiet about
it, because it almost felt likeif I was going to say it out
loud it made it more scary.
Like, somehow, voicing the fearmade it scarier.
I kind of compare it to thisexperience I had several years
ago where I was, my Mike and theboys and I were at Lake Travis
(23:15):
and we were kind of at a bay andthey got this idea that they
wanted to swim from one side ofthe bay to the other side of the
bay and they're very strongswimmers.
But I was like yeah, it's notthat far, it doesn't seem that
far, I could totally do that.
So we all got in the water andstarted to swim across the bay
and I got about halfway before Irealized like, yeah, this is
really far and obviously youcan't reach the bottom.
(23:37):
It's very deep there, you know.
And so you're just sort of inthis moment of, you know,
confronting this thought thatlike I'm equally as far from one
shore as I am from the otherand I'm very tired, and in that
moment I thought like I'm justgoing to drown, like I will
literally just go under thewater and drown right here and
nobody's gonna even noticebecause I'm not gonna say a word
(24:00):
, and and in that moment it feltso scary for me to be like hey,
you guys, I'm very tired, Idon't know if I'm gonna make it
across, and I kept my mouthquiet and and I didn't say
anything and ultimately I got tothe other side, but but I was
crying my eyes out by the time Igot to the other side and Mike
and the boys were like what'swrong with you?
Because they had no idea what Ihad been experiencing, that
(24:21):
whole time and I was like I'm soscared, I was so tired and I
didn't feel like I could bethere, like if you would have
just said something, we wouldhave helped you across.
(24:45):
Why didn't you just say it?
But I think that's the lie,that we believe that if we say
something out loud, if we tellsomebody the really hard thing,
that they're going to reject usor that that's going to make it
harder or more difficult, whenthe reality is, that will
actually alleviate some of thepressure and some of the fear.
So the idea in a lot of thetherapy that I'm doing is sort
of just to speak the fear outloud and then talk about, like
what do I need in that momentthat I'm feeling afraid?
And then talk about like whatdo I need in that moment that
I'm feeling afraid?
Do I need thoughts of likeguardianship?
You know like that God is myprotector?
Do I need thoughts that God ismy comforter?
(25:05):
You know, like, what do I needin those moments?
And then just to fill my mindwith scriptures that affirm the
thing that I need you know thatGod is my shelter, that I can
run to him and be saved, or youknow any of those kinds of
things.
I write this all down and thenI reframe the moment that I'm
having, where I'm like is thistruly?
Am I really in alife-threatening situation?
No, and also, god is my shield,he's my protector, he never
(25:30):
leaves me, he doesn't forsake me.
He'll walk with me through thiswhole thing.
You know, like you're talkingabout flying, like God's going
with me on the plane.
He's not leaving me as I boardthe plane and staying in the
airport.
Piet Van Waarde (25:41):
You know what I mean.
Jennifer Orenstein (25:42):
And it's not harder for God to care for me
because I'm on an airplane thanit is when I'm standing on solid
ground.
Like God is powerful and ableto care for me no matter the
situation, to care for me nomatter the situation, and so
sort of reframing those thoughtsinto a way that is encouraging
and affirming and gives yourbrain a positive direction to
think about it, and so I've beendoing that for three months now
(26:04):
and it's a process to heal theneural pathways of your brain,
but I can say that they arehealing.
That's awesome, yeah, and I amnow.
When I have those moments offear or anxiety, the positive
thoughts come before thenegative thoughts can take over
Nice, and I'm super grateful forthat.
So that's one thing.
Piet Van Waarde (26:24):
Can I just respond to that?
Jennifer Orenstein (26:26):
Sure.
Piet Van Waarde (26:27):
One of the things that I found in working
with people over the years andI'm sure you've seen the same
thing is that people I thinkespecially in the Christian
community feel some obligationto remain positive.
Like if they are feeling bad,they feel like they have to do
(26:50):
their positive confessions andthat the positive confession
alone will bring them to abetter place.
But one of the things I lovethat you just said and I found
this to be true so often is ifyou can actually begin by naming
the fear and what's reallygoing on.
Because I think that'ssometimes half the problem we're
really not sure what's going on.
(27:11):
I just feel badly or I feelanger, and it's a very
generalized feeling.
But if we can kind of digunderneath and say, well, what's
really going on here and beingable to name it, then I know
where I need to go to get theanswer for it.
(27:32):
I know what it is I'm lookingfor and then I can find in
scripture or by the comfort ofthe Holy Spirit, a practice or a
principle or an idea that willhelp to battle with that thing.
That's not that you know, it'skind of gotten messed up in my
thinking.
Jennifer Orenstein (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, I think too, if you find
yourself in that place whereanxiety or anxious thoughts
really have a grip on you, itdoes help to work with a
therapist who can kind of helptalk through like hey, how did I
arrive here?
That was one of I felt likeanxiety came upon me suddenly
and I couldn't understand.
Like I didn't have anxietyyesterday, now I have it today
(28:05):
and it won't go away.
Like I explained that, to me.
Piet Van Waarde (28:07):
How does that happen?
Jennifer Orenstein (28:09):
But to sit down with somebody who you know
is trauma informed and can helpyou sort of pick at the threads
a little bit of that and sort ofunravel them and understand For
me understanding brings greatcomfort.
Piet Van Waarde (28:23):
Yes.
Jennifer Orenstein (28:24):
So, if I can be like, oh, okay.
I understand now where thosefeelings are coming from or
where that thought came from.
Those feelings are coming fromor where that thought came from,
and I understand that.
You know I need some healing inthat area, you know, and and
some prayer or just someconversation about that has been
super helpful to me to workwith a therapist that is
(28:45):
compassionate in that way andhas helped me sort of unravel
the threads of my own brain andmy own life experiences and
trauma, especially of the lastfew years, and put some
concreteness behind thevagueness of anxiety and also
the reassurance that I'm notactually going crazy but that
(29:06):
trauma is real and that it justtakes care and time but it's
also it's possible to heal fromyes so to have that hopeful
voice too has been so goodthat's great yeah, yeah.
And then there's some you knowsome actual physical things you
can do to help activate yourparasympathetic nervous system
pressure points.
(29:26):
Cold plunging is actuallyreally good for that, yes, yes,
um.
Piet Van Waarde (29:33):
Are you doing it now?
Jennifer Orenstein (29:34):
I am, I been cold plunging Not?
Piet Van Waarde (29:37):
as cold as you're cold plunging.
Are you doing it in the bathtub?
Jennifer Orenstein (29:42):
No, I actually bought a little cold
plunge pod.
It's the kind you have to putice in.
But it's small enough that youcan put four or five bags of ice
and get the water down in the60s, the low 60s, and so just
get in and yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (29:56):
Nice.
Jennifer Orenstein (29:56):
Yeah, so that's helpful.
Piet Van Waarde (29:58):
Next thing you know you're going to be doing 40
.
Jennifer Orenstein (30:00):
I don't know , I don't know, I don't know,
it's so cool.
Piet Van Waarde (30:06):
It just feels so good to say it.
That's half the reason I do it.
I'm really like, but somedayI'll be able to say I've done 44
, 42, 38.
Jennifer Orenstein (30:15):
I don't know , that's not even a goal.
Piet Van Waarde (30:16):
For me right now it's like a polar plunge.
Anyway, off track, go ahead.
Jennifer Orenstein (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, you know, eating right is, you
know, that mind-body connectionof nourishing your body is good
for your mental health andgetting adequate sleep and
exercise, all of, I think,things that you've also
discovered in your own journeywith you know, cancer healing,
all of these things are alsogood for mental health, and so
you know, these are things thatI and and I think the hardest
(30:47):
part is just being intentionaland regimented about it, where I
know what my body needs in aday and I just have to um, make
that a priority to give it that.
So that.
I can actually heal my brainand move forward for this season
.
Piet Van Waarde (31:03):
So, yeah, thank you for risking sharing that
you know, because it's verypersonal.
Jennifer Orenstein (31:10):
Well, I mean , if God doesn't use this for
something, I'd be reallyirritated.
It can't just be for me.
Piet Van Waarde (31:20):
All right, so um anything else that you're
learning that you'd want toshare about, talk about Um,
trying to think.
if there's anything else, Ithink um while you're thinking,
one, one of the things andyou've kind of already touched
on it, but I want to draw itback out um, we, we do a
(31:43):
newsletter together, so you'reone of several contributors to
my weekly newsletter called thehealing chronicle.
Um, and if you happen to beinterested in receiving it, we
can make sure that that happens.
You can just go toPeteVanWardcom slash newsletter
and sign up for that.
But your role in thatnewsletter is soul care and so
(32:08):
you're kind of talking about,like, as you're dealing with
whatever physical malady you'reprocessing, there's also a
spiritual, obvious spiritualemotional connection and if you
want to heal fully, you want tojust make sure you're dealing
with all of it Sure.
(32:29):
And so I'm curious becausethey're so good.
Every time I read it I'm like Ihope people read this.
So rich.
And I do get quite a fewcomments about it.
So thank you for doing that,but where did some of those
ideas come from?
What is it that you like?
What are you tapping into whenyou are thinking about writing
(32:51):
for that?
Jennifer Orenstein (32:52):
Yeah, so a lot of times it's just what I'm
living in that exact moment,like, hey, what either?
Like what did God speak to metoday?
I do a lot of verse mappingwhen I'm in scripture, so I'll
just take a single verse andI'll just pick it apart and I'll
go back to, like, the Hebrew orthe Greek and then I'll
meditate on it and I'll ask Godto show me what he wants me to
take away from that specificverse.
(33:13):
And and I, I have this bookthat I write it all down with,
and sometimes I'll even getcreative with it and like draw
and just sort of likeincorporate the whole mind into
that experience.
Um and so, sometimes it's that,sometimes it's, you know,
something God showed me inscripture.
Um, sometimes it's somethingthat I myself am really trying
(33:33):
to overcome.
I think I did one on fear,where I was, you know, talking
about actual things that I wasusing in that moment to work
through the fear.
In my own life, there was onewhere I was happened to be with
my middle son, who's 20.
He's about to turn 29 next weekand I literally just said to
him what should I write aboutthis week?
And what was so crazy is he waslike immediately came up with
(33:56):
something.
Piet Van Waarde (33:57):
He's like.
Jennifer Orenstein (33:57):
I think you should write about this and I
was like that's an amazing idea,and so I just wrote.
I am grateful that if I have anidea, I can usually get
thoughts down on paper fairlyquickly, so I'm grateful for
that part where I'm not like, oh, have writer's block.
Sometimes I just sit in thequiet and I asked the Lord what
is it you want to speak?
This week I find myself a lotof the time sort of at the end
(34:20):
of myself, and that doesn'tnecessarily scare me.
I don't, in and of myself, havea whole lot to say that I think
is all that valuable, but Iknow you probably have something
that you want to communicate.
So if you'll just tell me whatthat is, I'll be happy to write
about it.
Piet Van Waarde (34:41):
I'm going to take an issue with the first
part of what you said.
Jennifer Orenstein (34:43):
I think you always have something very
valuable to contribute.
Thank you.
Well, that's good, that's good.
Piet Van Waarde (34:47):
Well, thank you for doing it.
And it is.
It is I'm not just saying thatbecause you're here.
It really is very good and lovethe way you process about your
spirituality.
And I think it's really helpfulfor people who are in my
position of trying to heal andothers in that place too.
Jennifer Orenstein (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, love that.
Piet Van Waarde (35:06):
Anything else.
Jennifer Orenstein (35:07):
I mean, I think the thing that came to my
mind when you asked me a fewminutes ago is and I was talking
with my parents about this lastnight but just this idea that
we live in such a noisy, busyworld and alone is a really
strange concept.
So I think there are people outthere that are very, very
(35:28):
lonely.
So I'm not trying to minimizethat experience at all.
But I think the tendency for alot of people is to try to fill
that quiet space with anythingat all that will get them
through the quiet, and somethingthat I'm working on you mean
like this yes, yes, exactly that, or the TV or any number of
(35:49):
things.
And I think one thing I'mworking on in my own life right
now is just sort of allowingmyself, partly because my
husband has been traveling so,so much and so I have a lot of
alone time at the house and Itend to fill it with busy like
housework type things, just tokind of keep my mind and body
busy.
Piet Van Waarde (36:09):
Yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (36:10):
But I really hear the Lord saying like it's
okay to just be still, yeah, andI mean I know we know the Bible
says that like be still andknow that I am God.
But I really think that that'simportant to have moments in
each day where you really arejust still and you're not trying
(36:35):
to feel that quiet, asuncomfortable as it might be,
with noise or entertainment ordistraction or busyness or
whatever, and you just allow.
I think the initial first fewminutes are very difficult as
your brain tries to come out ofthe space that our world and our
culture keeps it in.
But after that, I think there'ssuch great potential for just
sitting with God and trulyknowing and feeling that he is
God, that he has things undercontrol, that he is going to
(36:56):
carry you through whatever it isyou're going through, and even
though it feels like it's easierand more comfortable to feel
that quiet space with otherthings, it really is.
There's such potential for goodin just being in the quiet with
God.
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (37:11):
And I just want to for those who would find
that like I'm a more extrovertedperson, so the thought of just
sitting, by myself feels liketorture in some ways, and so one
of the things that's kind ofhelped me get over the hump is
to take advantage of naturaltimes when I could do that.
(37:34):
In other words, so right nowI'm in a 10 minute plunge, right
, so just say I say Lord forthese 10 minutes to help me get
through this experience.
I'm just I'm not going tolisten to music, I'm just going
to sit here in the quiet and ifthere's something you want to
say to me, I want to listen.
(37:56):
So it's not just that I'm in achair doing it, I'm like I have
this practice of 10 minutes inthe plunge and I can use that.
Jennifer Orenstein (38:03):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (38:06):
Or instead of turning on the radio when you're
going somewhere, to actuallyjust say, lord, obviously I want
to pay attention to the roadand do all that, but I'm also
just not going to distractmyself with something else.
Whether it's the phone or radio, I want to turn it off.
Jennifer Orenstein (38:25):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (38:26):
I also have this breathing exercise.
I do the Wim Hof breathing,which is basically like deep
breathing and holding yourbreath for a 10-minute block,
doing a series of differentkinds of breathing, and even
then it's like okay, lord, Iwant to use this time Like I'm
breathing in, breathing out,breathing out stress, breathing
(38:49):
in the work of the Spirit.
I actually say things like thatto myself, so that it feels to
me like that's a more doablething than just kind of sitting
on a couch with the lights off.
Jennifer Orenstein (39:07):
Yeah, I also use time in the car.
Yeah, Typically that would belike podcast listening time for
me, but lately I've just beenlike, no, I'm just going to
obviously pay attention to theroad, but I'm just going to
allow God to have this time andif there's something he wants to
communicate with me, thenthat's amazing.
If not, I'll just sit in hispresence for a little bit.
(39:27):
Being the introvert that I am, Ialso go sit on my back patio,
and I do just because it'scloser to nature there, and I
always feel closer to God whenI'm in nature just to have those
few moments on the back patiowhere I observe creation.
And you know like all of thiswas put into play by God's own
hand.
And you know, when I wasfeeling fearful of flying, I sat
(39:49):
on the back patio and I watchedthe birds and I realized, like
God is the inventor of flightand I have nothing to be afraid
of.
Like that thought came to me ina moment of quiet sitting on
the back patio.
So, yeah, yeah.
So as an introvert it's alittle, I think a little bit
easier for me.
But I also tend to want todistract myself, and so I just
(40:14):
try to be really intentional.
I think the world is screamingreally loud for our attention
right now and they're giving ittheir all, and we just have to
be so mindful that we keep oureyes on Jesus.
Piet Van Waarde (40:28):
And I think that I've had those moments
where, when I'm intentionalabout saying, lord, I'll wait
for you to speak, if there's aword that comes during that
moment, that one word or thatone phrase or that one sensation
(40:49):
serves me so well.
Oftentimes, I think people Iknow this was true for me, I
think, but it's.
I think it's generally truepeople have this thing of like
okay, I'm just going to sit hereand be quiet and then my mind's
going to wander to what we'regoing to have for dinner tonight
yeah, the rest of the day it'sso real.
(41:10):
Oh my gosh, I haven't paid thatyet, you know yeah but and and
that's all normal.
Jennifer Orenstein (41:16):
It just happens.
Piet Van Waarde (41:17):
But if you can find yourself saying and say
like Lord, no, seriously, I'mhere.
Yeah, If you want to saysomething to me, I am listening.
Jennifer Orenstein (41:27):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (41:28):
And then something you know not all the
time, but something will drop.
And it's like ah, you know,like the thing you talked about
with the bird.
Yeah, you know like God createdflight, Just that one idea yeah
can be so transformativeabsolutely in the moment and
then for the rest of your dayyeah, absolutely.
Jennifer Orenstein (41:45):
Which is the payoff?
Piet Van Waarde (41:46):
you know it's like yes and I think the enemy
obviously knows that and that'swhy I think he works so hard to
keep us distracted andpreoccupied with so many other
things, because he knows themagic of having a good word.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:00):
Right, because think of the place he
can get us into if we don't hearGod's voice.
Piet Van Waarde (42:05):
Yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:06):
You know, and we are only hearing other
voices.
Piet Van Waarde (42:10):
Culture yeah.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:11):
Yeah, it's so important that we have
moments where we really justhear God's voice for ourselves.
Piet Van Waarde (42:18):
So, yeah.
Well, I think that's a greatplace to end.
Okay, all right, thank you, jen.
If people are interested, like,let's say, are you still open
to having clients come?
Jennifer Orenstein (42:30):
Yes, I would like to add a couple more
clients.
Piet Van Waarde (42:33):
Okay, so how would people get in touch with
you?
Jennifer Orenstein (42:40):
couple more clients.
Okay, so how would people getin touch with you?
So you can email me atjenniferat236.com, and you're
probably going to ask me tospell that and I'm not going to
be able to come up with it righthere on the fly.
Piet Van Waarde (42:48):
All right, well , we'll put it in the show notes
and people want to get in touchwith you about that.
Jennifer Orenstein (42:52):
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear from people.
Piet Van Waarde (42:54):
All right.
Thank you so much for doingthis, thanks for having me and
thank you all for joining us.
It's been great to have you,preston.
Thanks for your good work.
You didn't mess anything uptoday.
We're so proud of you.
Jennifer Orenstein (43:07):
He never messes up.
It's usually right here.
Piet Van Waarde (43:12):
All right, thank you.
See you next time.
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