July 16, 2024 • 20 mins
Unlock the secrets to transforming lives through tech apprenticeships in this episode of Skills First, the Apprenticeship Playbook Podcast. Join us as we sit down with Vanessa Russell, the inspiring founding executive director of Love Never Fails, and dive into her journey from overcoming personal trauma to becoming a senior global sales leader at Cisco. Vanessa's story highlights the power of mentorship and the critical role of support systems in helping individuals from underserved communities thrive. Together with Mike Roberts, creator of the Apprenticeship Playbook, we discuss the troubling disconnect between job requirements and compensation for entry-level positions and how innovative tech education and apprenticeship programs can bridge that gap.
We also explore the broader landscape of the tech industry, addressing the unrealistic expectations placed on entry-level hires and the benefits of fostering long-term loyalty through apprenticeship programs. Discover the importance of creating inclusive environments for diverse candidates with initiatives like the REDI curriculum, focusing on racial equity, diversity, and inclusion. To wrap up, we lighten the mood with a fun chat about balancing healthy eating habits with indulgence, reminding us all that moderation is key—even when it comes to our favorite snacks. Tune in for valuable insights, personal stories, and practical tips to navigate the evolving world of tech apprenticeships.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One of the things that is kind of driving me crazy
and we're having a conversationwith a couple of HR departments
because on one hand, we'resaying, oh, we need all this
talent, we need entry-levelcybersecurity technicians, we
need entry-level agile scrummasters, but then you look at
the job description and it'slike you need a data scientist
(00:20):
scientists.
You're trying to payentry-level pay to someone who
has data scientist skills, whichis just not working right.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey everyone, this is Mike Roberts, creator of the
Apprenticeship Playbook, andyou're tuned in to the Skills
First podcast.
In today's world, skills First,hiring is revolutionizing the
job market and on this show Isit down with trailblazers who
are rethinking hiring practicesand embracing experiential
learning, as well as the peopleimpacted.
(00:56):
Follow along as we dive intotips, innovative ideas and
proven strategies to help younavigate and thrive in the
evolving landscape of modernapprenticeships.
Can you tell us who you are andwhat is it?
Help you navigate and thrive inthe evolving landscape of
modern apprenticeships?
Can you tell us who you are andwhat is it that you do?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yes, so my name is Vanessa Russell.
I'm the founding executivedirector of Love Never Fails.
We are a nationalanti-trafficking organization
that was founded 11 years agoafter one of my 15-year-old
dance students was exploited,was actually sexually assaulted
in Hayward, california and soldthroughout the state for a year,
and since then we have openedup many houses and we've become
(01:37):
a state-certified cybersecuritypre-apprenticeship program.
We have a tech academy calledITBiz, and then we do prevention
education, a bunch of otherstuff as well.
We're really entrenched inhelping underserved,
under-resourced communitymembers, which may be vulnerable
to human trafficking, reallydevelop themselves and become
(02:00):
all that they can be, you know,live their best life.
There, you go and where are youlocated?
Located in the Bay Area, sanFrancisco Bay Area, actually,
originally from San Francisco,well, originally originally from
Pennsylvania, but was raised inSan Francisco, and now I am in
the in San Joaquin County, andthen we have offices in Hayward,
(02:23):
dublin, king County, and thenwe have offices in Hayward,
dublin, antioch, east, palo Alto, san Francisco, san Jose,
oakland and yeah, so you'reprimarily then concentrated in
like California then yes, wehave students that are in other
states, like Tennessee, georgia,oregon, nevada, chicago or
(02:44):
Illinois rather, so we do havestudents in different areas, but
for the most part we're inCalifornia.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Tell me a little bit about why you chose techers.
Because I think people don'treally connect people that deal
with like survivors withtechnology or technology career
paths.
Where did that come from?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, so I a little bit about me, right?
So I grew up in San-addicted,impoverished family in different
ways and ended up in fostercare as a two-year-old.
(03:24):
My mom and I had periods ofbeing homeless.
She was a victim of domesticviolence.
We had a pretty rough way inthe early days.
I was very interested in thearts and very interested in
school and that was kind of mysustaining thing throughout my
life, even though I was goingthrough a lot of difficult
circumstances and ended up, youknow, going to college but
(03:49):
didn't have anyone to help mefinancially.
So it took me 10 years to getthrough.
These are just examples of justlike it being really hard,
right?
And and yet I ended up as asenior global senior sales
leader at Cisco, you know,traveling the world, you know,
making a very good way formyself in the tech industry.
(04:11):
So that opened my eyes to thereality that there are these
people that have experiencedsexual trauma like I had, these
people that experiencehomelessness and abuse and
foster care, that had theseamazing abilities that were
being overlooked or weren'tbeing cultivated, and I had.
(04:33):
Honestly, I had a few peoplethat were said like positive
things to me along the way.
That encouraged me to kind ofsee something more in myself,
but I didn't have a mentor orlike someone paving the way per
se, and so I thought to myself,well, if I could be that person
for another person and help themget to their, their purpose and
(04:57):
their strength and their goalssooner and avoid some of the
craziness I had to go through,then that would be really cool.
Some people never get therebecause they never find out what
they've got in them, and Iliterally die on the streets.
They become drug addicted oryou know to deal with the pain
and or become incarceratedbecause they had to go rob their
(05:19):
way into a meal.
And these are the kinds ofthings that for me, survivors of
human trafficking kind of havebeen stereotyped, but they have
a very similar profile to mine.
I'm not, I'm a survivor ofdomestic violence, but not of
human trafficking, but you knowvery similar profile to mine and
I just I've just seen time andtime again and working with
(05:40):
survivors as well as others, sowe work with other populations.
There's just this similarity.
And oh, you know, you've beenthrough trauma, you have these
challenges, you're probably notready for attack and it's like
not so, not so, not so.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, and I think one thing that you mentioned that
resonates with me, right, I took10 years to finish my degree
and it wasn't that I didn'treally have the means, it was
more like I didn't have themotivation.
Everyone was saying, likeeducation is going to be your
ticket, it's going to be yourpathway, and I just couldn't
make that connection Right, andso for me it was just like I was
super unfocused and, to yourpoint, I think that a lot of
(06:17):
people just don't see it forthem, they don't see themselves,
and that's why I think it's soimportant to have people like
you that have paved the pathwayand now are like just a model
that people can look at andthink differently about.
Like why can't I?
Why, why, why shouldn't I beable to be successful in this
field?
Right, like what's the what'sthe reason, other than like it's
(06:40):
mostly dominated by white maleand asian males, but like
there's no other barrier otherthan the normal barriers that
that person already has toovercome, right, if they're
justice involved, or if they'rea survivor, if they're
experiencing homelessness, sure,they still have those barriers,
but they have have thoseanyways.
Right, I think there's justlike so much of an opportunity
to like move that needle right.
(07:01):
So I'm curious what was one ofthe biggest challenges starting
this organization and getting itto this point where it's at
right now?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, it's interesting.
So I was a very successfulbusiness leader at the time that
I started the organization.
It was running million dollarbusiness deals, sales
opportunities, you know, atCisco.
And then, prior to that, I wasan IT manager for Alameda County
running multimillion dollarbudgets.
But here's the funny part Knewnothing about being a small
(07:30):
business, knew nothing aboutbeing a nonprofit.
I mean, like articles ofincorporation and like forming a
board and like P&L and balancesheets.
It's like there are thesethings and there's a culture and
there's language that I had noclue about.
And initially, when I startedthe organization 11, we're going
into our 12th year when Istarted it, I did it on a
(07:56):
voluntary basis, for, you know,for five years I think it was,
and then I took a salary of$10,000 a year in the fifth year
and you know, I didn't actuallytake a real salary, which is,
you know, it's not a huge salary.
But I didn't take that until Iretired quote unquote from Cisco
to do this work full time fouryears ago.
(08:17):
Prior to that, I just reallywas a kind of part time, pseudo
volunteer, ed and I did in thebeginning.
I did all the accounting, I didall the you know marketing.
I, yeah, everything was a hotmess and but you know, but
actually I did pretty good at it.
I just didn't know what I wasdoing.
(08:38):
Mike, I was like calling in allmy friends um pastor Rhonda
Hastings as an accountingbusiness, and I I would reach
out to her and go, how do you dothis, how do you do that?
And she's like, oh yeah, we gotto get accounting codes and we
got to get know quick books upand running like thank you,
right, dad?
then yeah, it's just been.
It's been really a labor oflove for me and a bunch of other
(09:02):
people to get us to this pointyeah, and I love the the route
that you took in building thatsort of like that village right
yeah carrying a lot on your onyour back, so wearing a lot of
hats, but you know that's thestruggle that we have.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
We're much earlier on as an organization.
We're just newbies in thisspace, but I'm I'm slowly but
surely learning that I can'tcarry this all of this on my own
and that I really do have tolike really focus on building
out, the putting the rightstrategic pieces in place to to
make this an organization thatcan like scale and grow way
beyond like what I'm.
(09:36):
I'm always.
Like I've said, a couple morehours in this day I can get a
couple more of these thingsbanged out.
It's hard, it's hard.
Yes it is.
What do you feel like is one ofthe biggest challenges that you
know folks that you're servingface breaking into tech.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, I think, like one of the things that is kind
of driving me crazy, we'rehaving a conversation with a
couple of HR departments because, on one hand, we're saying, oh,
we need all this talent, weneed entry level cybersecurity
technicians, we need entry levelagile scrum masters, and it's
like you need a data scientist,that you're trying to pay entry
(10:16):
level pay to someone who hasdata scientist skills, which is
just not working Right.
And I think you're relying on,maybe, someone who has a
master's degree or four yearuniversity, who's out of work,
who's willing to take a hit ontheir hourly wage Right to get
in your company and then worktheir way up.
(10:38):
But you know, my, my challengeto employers is like that's a
losing strategy because as soonas that person gets a little
cash in their pocket or they geta little more stabilized,
you're going to, they're goingto leave right that they're not
going to have that allegiance toyou.
They're not.
They have.
They have bigger, better thingsto do, whereas you have somebody
(10:59):
who you can cultivate and growfrom the beginning and move
through.
I mean, there's tons of datathat shows like apprenticeships
is the way to go, becauseorganizations who embrace
apprenticeships, they find thattheir managers, or long-term
managers or long-term leaders,are those individuals that they
invested in early on.
Are those individuals that theyinvested in early on?
(11:20):
There's a loyalty there andthere's a pride there that
people take in, having kind ofgrown up in that particular
environment.
It's a hard conversationbecause nobody wants to admit
that that's what's going on, butit is.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I'm going through as well with you know, building and
developing these employerrelationships.
We really try and focus onbeing an employer driven B2B
where we need to provide valueAt least I think we need to
provide value in terms of thepeople and the skills that they
bring to the table, and oftenit's kind of invisible to
employers that are just lookingfor senior engineers and they're
(11:53):
looking for talent that justhas like years of experience.
The reality is like you said,they don't have the checkbook
for that, right.
The reality is like you said,they don't have the checkbook
for that and and so they gotsort of like their eyes and the
appetite has to meet what theirpocket can afford.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
not only that, how much money are they losing on
the turnover?
I mean, you've spent all thistime ramping up a senior type
person and they're going toleave you in six to twelve
months, so are you prepared togo without that?
Have that position vacant forthree months?
Re-ramp somebody else up andmaybe you're getting what you
need out of that.
But I would say, take a look atit, because I would.
(12:31):
I would argue that if you justspent a little time making your
your place you know yourenvironment, apprenticeship
ready and so to speak that wouldbe great.
And I did want to mention onething about that.
We've developed a curriculumcalled REDI, which stands for
Racial Equity, diversity andInclusion, and it's all about
getting employers ready toreceive the students that we are
(12:54):
graduating from our programs.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And it comes from a point of kind of looking at your
(13:23):
personal and organizationalbias and also increasing your
level of organizational empathy,and that, I think, is another
barrier that we're seeing whenwe talk about the kinds of
individuals that we're bringingin that come from nontraditional
backgrounds?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah for sure.
What do you think are thehabits or behaviors, when you
think about candidates that bestmake that transition and can?
Mostly people who have variousdisabilities, various challenges
, either physical, psychological, hearing impaired, sight
impaired, adhd, you name it.
(13:58):
They have, you know, a varietyof things that they're
overcoming, and we talked abouta kind of an ideal like this,
the criteria for success, and soone of those and these can be,
some of these can be taught andmost of them can be taught.
But time management right.
(14:23):
Someone who can create andmaintain a steady schedule and
kind of show up on time.
Someone who has some effectivecommunication, knows how to ask
for help, knows how to contactthe instructor, describe
problems that they're having,can study independently.
Someone who's self-motivated,that has a strong desire to
learn.
Someone who has a basic reading, writing, math and computer
literacy skill, meaning they canget on like a Zoom or on Teams,
(14:46):
that kind of level.
I'm not talking about anythingmore elaborate than that.
And then someone who has somecritical thinking and
decision-making insights.
And that's something I like tocultivate in a certain curiosity
that I like to cultivate in acertain curiosity that I like to
cultivate in folks.
One thing we have to understand,especially when you're dealing
with BIPOC students, is ifyou've never been taught that
(15:10):
it's okay to ask questions andto be curious about something or
to not know things, or, youknow, hide what you don't know.
Don't be curious, don't ask toomany questions, Sit back, be
quiet.
You know, even in some culturesdon't speak unless spoken to.
If you have, you come from thatkind of home or culture and
(15:32):
then also system, systemically,we know that we, you know we
have the history of you know,sit back, boy, don't you know?
Don't your opinion doesn'tmatter, Sit back, young lady,
your opinion doesn't matter.
So if you have that in you, thenyou've got to be awakened when
you come into these learningenvironments to say, well, why
(15:53):
does it work like that?
Well, how explain to me why isthere?
What does that mean?
Like I don't get it, and knowthat you have the right to take
up the space to ask thosequestions, know that you have
the right to not know and youhave the right to ask and learn,
and these are things that youknow.
(16:19):
If you don't feel like you haverights, period, you're just
going to kind of go around andjust be doing, receiving and
doing whatever anybody tells youto do, and that's not what we
need in these kinds of roles.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And I also, I think the spillover, the carryover of
that, is when, because a lot ofemployers, I think they're not
aware of this and so, as theystart to engage with this
population, they start toincrease their cultural
awareness and they start toreally more deeply massage and
change some of the verypractices that are acting as
(16:52):
inhibitors for the progress thatthey're trying to make, because
they're just like they don'tget it, like this is nothing
that's ever been on their radarindividually.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
They don't get it Like.
This is nothing that's everbeen on their radar individually
, and so it's hard for them toeven like start to create and
engineer solutions to a winetasting event.
We're going to a golfing event.
I have no clue what to wear.
What do what do I do at agolfing event?
Do I wear jeans?
Do I wear khaki?
(17:32):
So I start looking it up onlineat least I had the sense to to
find out what and start askingwhat?
How do I prepare for a winetasting event?
Are they going to tell me howto taste it?
And then I had to learn how tosmell the glass and how to look
at the you know the winedripping down the side and and
all you know.
It's like the all these littlethings that you and describing
(17:55):
the one and and here otherpeople are doing that and they
just assume you've come fromthat background and you know you
.
You know, you know what's goingon.
I didn't know the differencebetween Pinot and Cabernet and I
didn't know any of that.
You know.
In fact, I only knew aboutstrawberry bones, if I'm being
100.
There you go, there you go.
(18:15):
That's all I knew about.
So I need people to understandthat we're making assumptions
about the folks and it's not adegrading, you know, there's
nothing, there's no value,necessarily that we're assigned
to it.
But when we want to create aninclusive environment, we have
to kind of think about what arewe choosing to do?
(18:35):
Are we, you know?
And how is everybody in theroom going to relate to whatever
it is that we've chosen?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, so important.
Is there anybody that you'dlike to give a shout out?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
to.
I think I want to plug some ofthe organizations that have been
supporting us James IrvineFoundation there's a ton of
support coming from them.
There's a variety of churchesthat are supporting us South Bay
Community Church and New HopeChristian Fellowship.
Some of these, some churchesthat are kind of undergirding
our work, either in the, in ourhomes or in our community
(19:06):
engagement center, or with our,our IT Biz Tech Academy, john
Muir, community Health Fundthese, these are some of the
folks that are coming alongsideus and saying you know, I see
what you are doing, I believe inyou, I'm investing in you and
I'm allowing you to Ciscosystems.
We believe in where you'retaking the students, in the
(19:28):
sport that you're doing.
And then, of course, I want to,I want to just shout out all my
staff, my family.
They've been tremendous.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So yeah, absolutely All right.
Last and most importantquestion absolutely all right.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Last and most important question what is your
favorite snack?
Favorite snack?
Oh gosh, I don't even know if Ican answer that.
I would say I'm trying to getmore towards a veggie fruit,
okay, but it's always chocolate,always mike chocolate's good
and it's healthy, yeah, not likepeanut butter cups.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Moderation it's all in moderation, right.
So this, you know it's got.
It's got some good stuff inthere.
Yeah, all right, cool.
Thanks so much for coming onthe program appreciate it, thank
you mike you've been listeningto skills first, the
(20:23):
apprenticeship playbook podcast.
By the way, if this is valuableto you, don't be lame.
Share the game.
This is how we know you love it.
If you're a thinking aboutchanging how you hire, please
share it so we know this type ofstuff is what you want.
One of the things that is kind of driving me crazy
and we're having a conversationwith a couple of HR departments
because on one hand, we'resaying, oh, we need all this
talent, we need entry-levelcybersecurity technicians, we
need entry-level agile scrummasters, but then you look at
the job description and it'slike you need a data scientist
(00:20):
scientists.
You're trying to payentry-level pay to someone who
has data scientist skills, whichis just not working right.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey everyone, this is Mike Roberts, creator of the
Apprenticeship Playbook, andyou're tuned in to the Skills
First podcast.
In today's world, skills First,hiring is revolutionizing the
job market and on this show Isit down with trailblazers who
are rethinking hiring practicesand embracing experiential
learning, as well as the peopleimpacted.
(00:56):
Follow along as we dive intotips, innovative ideas and
proven strategies to help younavigate and thrive in the
evolving landscape of modernapprenticeships.
Can you tell us who you are andwhat is it?
Help you navigate and thrive inthe evolving landscape of
modern apprenticeships?
Can you tell us who you are andwhat is it that you do?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yes, so my name is Vanessa Russell.
I'm the founding executivedirector of Love Never Fails.
We are a nationalanti-trafficking organization
that was founded 11 years agoafter one of my 15-year-old
dance students was exploited,was actually sexually assaulted
in Hayward, california and soldthroughout the state for a year,
and since then we have openedup many houses and we've become
(01:37):
a state-certified cybersecuritypre-apprenticeship program.
We have a tech academy calledITBiz, and then we do prevention
education, a bunch of otherstuff as well.
We're really entrenched inhelping underserved,
under-resourced communitymembers, which may be vulnerable
to human trafficking, reallydevelop themselves and become
(02:00):
all that they can be, you know,live their best life.
There, you go and where are youlocated?
Located in the Bay Area, sanFrancisco Bay Area, actually,
originally from San Francisco,well, originally originally from
Pennsylvania, but was raised inSan Francisco, and now I am in
the in San Joaquin County, andthen we have offices in Hayward,
(02:23):
dublin, king County, and thenwe have offices in Hayward,
dublin, antioch, east, palo Alto, san Francisco, san Jose,
oakland and yeah, so you'reprimarily then concentrated in
like California then yes, wehave students that are in other
states, like Tennessee, georgia,oregon, nevada, chicago or
(02:44):
Illinois rather, so we do havestudents in different areas, but
for the most part we're inCalifornia.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Tell me a little bit about why you chose techers.
Because I think people don'treally connect people that deal
with like survivors withtechnology or technology career
paths.
Where did that come from?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Well, so I a little bit about me, right?
So I grew up in San-addicted,impoverished family in different
ways and ended up in fostercare as a two-year-old.
(03:24):
My mom and I had periods ofbeing homeless.
She was a victim of domesticviolence.
We had a pretty rough way inthe early days.
I was very interested in thearts and very interested in
school and that was kind of mysustaining thing throughout my
life, even though I was goingthrough a lot of difficult
circumstances and ended up, youknow, going to college but
(03:49):
didn't have anyone to help mefinancially.
So it took me 10 years to getthrough.
These are just examples of justlike it being really hard,
right?
And and yet I ended up as asenior global senior sales
leader at Cisco, you know,traveling the world, you know,
making a very good way formyself in the tech industry.
(04:11):
So that opened my eyes to thereality that there are these
people that have experiencedsexual trauma like I had, these
people that experiencehomelessness and abuse and
foster care, that had theseamazing abilities that were
being overlooked or weren'tbeing cultivated, and I had.
(04:33):
Honestly, I had a few peoplethat were said like positive
things to me along the way.
That encouraged me to kind ofsee something more in myself,
but I didn't have a mentor orlike someone paving the way per
se, and so I thought to myself,well, if I could be that person
for another person and help themget to their, their purpose and
(04:57):
their strength and their goalssooner and avoid some of the
craziness I had to go through,then that would be really cool.
Some people never get therebecause they never find out what
they've got in them, and Iliterally die on the streets.
They become drug addicted oryou know to deal with the pain
and or become incarceratedbecause they had to go rob their
(05:19):
way into a meal.
And these are the kinds ofthings that for me, survivors of
human trafficking kind of havebeen stereotyped, but they have
a very similar profile to mine.
I'm not, I'm a survivor ofdomestic violence, but not of
human trafficking, but you knowvery similar profile to mine and
I just I've just seen time andtime again and working with
(05:40):
survivors as well as others, sowe work with other populations.
There's just this similarity.
And oh, you know, you've beenthrough trauma, you have these
challenges, you're probably notready for attack and it's like
not so, not so, not so.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, and I think one thing that you mentioned that
resonates with me, right, I took10 years to finish my degree
and it wasn't that I didn'treally have the means, it was
more like I didn't have themotivation.
Everyone was saying, likeeducation is going to be your
ticket, it's going to be yourpathway, and I just couldn't
make that connection Right, andso for me it was just like I was
super unfocused and, to yourpoint, I think that a lot of
(06:17):
people just don't see it forthem, they don't see themselves,
and that's why I think it's soimportant to have people like
you that have paved the pathwayand now are like just a model
that people can look at andthink differently about.
Like why can't I?
Why, why, why shouldn't I beable to be successful in this
field?
Right, like what's the what'sthe reason, other than like it's
(06:40):
mostly dominated by white maleand asian males, but like
there's no other barrier otherthan the normal barriers that
that person already has toovercome, right, if they're
justice involved, or if they'rea survivor, if they're
experiencing homelessness, sure,they still have those barriers,
but they have have thoseanyways.
Right, I think there's justlike so much of an opportunity
to like move that needle right.
(07:01):
So I'm curious what was one ofthe biggest challenges starting
this organization and getting itto this point where it's at
right now?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, it's interesting.
So I was a very successfulbusiness leader at the time that
I started the organization.
It was running million dollarbusiness deals, sales
opportunities, you know, atCisco.
And then, prior to that, I wasan IT manager for Alameda County
running multimillion dollarbudgets.
But here's the funny part Knewnothing about being a small
(07:30):
business, knew nothing aboutbeing a nonprofit.
I mean, like articles ofincorporation and like forming a
board and like P&L and balancesheets.
It's like there are thesethings and there's a culture and
there's language that I had noclue about.
And initially, when I startedthe organization 11, we're going
into our 12th year when Istarted it, I did it on a
(07:56):
voluntary basis, for, you know,for five years I think it was,
and then I took a salary of$10,000 a year in the fifth year
and you know, I didn't actuallytake a real salary, which is,
you know, it's not a huge salary.
But I didn't take that until Iretired quote unquote from Cisco
to do this work full time fouryears ago.
(08:17):
Prior to that, I just reallywas a kind of part time, pseudo
volunteer, ed and I did in thebeginning.
I did all the accounting, I didall the you know marketing.
I, yeah, everything was a hotmess and but you know, but
actually I did pretty good at it.
I just didn't know what I wasdoing.
(08:38):
Mike, I was like calling in allmy friends um pastor Rhonda
Hastings as an accountingbusiness, and I I would reach
out to her and go, how do you dothis, how do you do that?
And she's like, oh yeah, we gotto get accounting codes and we
got to get know quick books upand running like thank you,
right, dad?
then yeah, it's just been.
It's been really a labor oflove for me and a bunch of other
(09:02):
people to get us to this pointyeah, and I love the the route
that you took in building thatsort of like that village right
yeah carrying a lot on your onyour back, so wearing a lot of
hats, but you know that's thestruggle that we have.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
We're much earlier on as an organization.
We're just newbies in thisspace, but I'm I'm slowly but
surely learning that I can'tcarry this all of this on my own
and that I really do have tolike really focus on building
out, the putting the rightstrategic pieces in place to to
make this an organization thatcan like scale and grow way
beyond like what I'm.
(09:36):
I'm always.
Like I've said, a couple morehours in this day I can get a
couple more of these thingsbanged out.
It's hard, it's hard.
Yes it is.
What do you feel like is one ofthe biggest challenges that you
know folks that you're servingface breaking into tech.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, I think, like one of the things that is kind
of driving me crazy, we'rehaving a conversation with a
couple of HR departments because, on one hand, we're saying, oh,
we need all this talent, weneed entry level cybersecurity
technicians, we need entry levelagile scrum masters, and it's
like you need a data scientist,that you're trying to pay entry
(10:16):
level pay to someone who hasdata scientist skills, which is
just not working Right.
And I think you're relying on,maybe, someone who has a
master's degree or four yearuniversity, who's out of work,
who's willing to take a hit ontheir hourly wage Right to get
in your company and then worktheir way up.
(10:38):
But you know, my, my challengeto employers is like that's a
losing strategy because as soonas that person gets a little
cash in their pocket or they geta little more stabilized,
you're going to, they're goingto leave right that they're not
going to have that allegiance toyou.
They're not.
They have.
They have bigger, better thingsto do, whereas you have somebody
(10:59):
who you can cultivate and growfrom the beginning and move
through.
I mean, there's tons of datathat shows like apprenticeships
is the way to go, becauseorganizations who embrace
apprenticeships, they find thattheir managers, or long-term
managers or long-term leaders,are those individuals that they
invested in early on.
Are those individuals that theyinvested in early on?
(11:20):
There's a loyalty there andthere's a pride there that
people take in, having kind ofgrown up in that particular
environment.
It's a hard conversationbecause nobody wants to admit
that that's what's going on, butit is.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I'm going through as well with you know, building and
developing these employerrelationships.
We really try and focus onbeing an employer driven B2B
where we need to provide valueAt least I think we need to
provide value in terms of thepeople and the skills that they
bring to the table, and oftenit's kind of invisible to
employers that are just lookingfor senior engineers and they're
(11:53):
looking for talent that justhas like years of experience.
The reality is like you said,they don't have the checkbook
for that, right.
The reality is like you said,they don't have the checkbook
for that and and so they gotsort of like their eyes and the
appetite has to meet what theirpocket can afford.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
not only that, how much money are they losing on
the turnover?
I mean, you've spent all thistime ramping up a senior type
person and they're going toleave you in six to twelve
months, so are you prepared togo without that?
Have that position vacant forthree months?
Re-ramp somebody else up andmaybe you're getting what you
need out of that.
But I would say, take a look atit, because I would.
(12:31):
I would argue that if you justspent a little time making your
your place you know yourenvironment, apprenticeship
ready and so to speak that wouldbe great.
And I did want to mention onething about that.
We've developed a curriculumcalled REDI, which stands for
Racial Equity, diversity andInclusion, and it's all about
getting employers ready toreceive the students that we are
(12:54):
graduating from our programs.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And it comes from a point of kind of looking at your
(13:23):
personal and organizationalbias and also increasing your
level of organizational empathy,and that, I think, is another
barrier that we're seeing whenwe talk about the kinds of
individuals that we're bringingin that come from nontraditional
backgrounds?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah for sure.
What do you think are thehabits or behaviors, when you
think about candidates that bestmake that transition and can?
Mostly people who have variousdisabilities, various challenges
, either physical, psychological, hearing impaired, sight
impaired, adhd, you name it.
(13:58):
They have, you know, a varietyof things that they're
overcoming, and we talked abouta kind of an ideal like this,
the criteria for success, and soone of those and these can be,
some of these can be taught andmost of them can be taught.
But time management right.
(14:23):
Someone who can create andmaintain a steady schedule and
kind of show up on time.
Someone who has some effectivecommunication, knows how to ask
for help, knows how to contactthe instructor, describe
problems that they're having,can study independently.
Someone who's self-motivated,that has a strong desire to
learn.
Someone who has a basic reading, writing, math and computer
literacy skill, meaning they canget on like a Zoom or on Teams,
(14:46):
that kind of level.
I'm not talking about anythingmore elaborate than that.
And then someone who has somecritical thinking and
decision-making insights.
And that's something I like tocultivate in a certain curiosity
that I like to cultivate in acertain curiosity that I like to
cultivate in folks.
One thing we have to understand,especially when you're dealing
with BIPOC students, is ifyou've never been taught that
(15:10):
it's okay to ask questions andto be curious about something or
to not know things, or, youknow, hide what you don't know.
Don't be curious, don't ask toomany questions, Sit back, be
quiet.
You know, even in some culturesdon't speak unless spoken to.
If you have, you come from thatkind of home or culture and
(15:32):
then also system, systemically,we know that we, you know we
have the history of you know,sit back, boy, don't you know?
Don't your opinion doesn'tmatter, Sit back, young lady,
your opinion doesn't matter.
So if you have that in you, thenyou've got to be awakened when
you come into these learningenvironments to say, well, why
(15:53):
does it work like that?
Well, how explain to me why isthere?
What does that mean?
Like I don't get it, and knowthat you have the right to take
up the space to ask thosequestions, know that you have
the right to not know and youhave the right to ask and learn,
and these are things that youknow.
(16:19):
If you don't feel like you haverights, period, you're just
going to kind of go around andjust be doing, receiving and
doing whatever anybody tells youto do, and that's not what we
need in these kinds of roles.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And I also, I think the spillover, the carryover of
that, is when, because a lot ofemployers, I think they're not
aware of this and so, as theystart to engage with this
population, they start toincrease their cultural
awareness and they start toreally more deeply massage and
change some of the verypractices that are acting as
(16:52):
inhibitors for the progress thatthey're trying to make, because
they're just like they don'tget it, like this is nothing
that's ever been on their radarindividually.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
They don't get it Like.
This is nothing that's everbeen on their radar individually
, and so it's hard for them toeven like start to create and
engineer solutions to a winetasting event.
We're going to a golfing event.
I have no clue what to wear.
What do what do I do at agolfing event?
Do I wear jeans?
Do I wear khaki?
(17:32):
So I start looking it up onlineat least I had the sense to to
find out what and start askingwhat?
How do I prepare for a winetasting event?
Are they going to tell me howto taste it?
And then I had to learn how tosmell the glass and how to look
at the you know the winedripping down the side and and
all you know.
It's like the all these littlethings that you and describing
(17:55):
the one and and here otherpeople are doing that and they
just assume you've come fromthat background and you know you
.
You know, you know what's goingon.
I didn't know the differencebetween Pinot and Cabernet and I
didn't know any of that.
You know.
In fact, I only knew aboutstrawberry bones, if I'm being
100.
There you go, there you go.
(18:15):
That's all I knew about.
So I need people to understandthat we're making assumptions
about the folks and it's not adegrading, you know, there's
nothing, there's no value,necessarily that we're assigned
to it.
But when we want to create aninclusive environment, we have
to kind of think about what arewe choosing to do?
(18:35):
Are we, you know?
And how is everybody in theroom going to relate to whatever
it is that we've chosen?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, so important.
Is there anybody that you'dlike to give a shout out?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
to.
I think I want to plug some ofthe organizations that have been
supporting us James IrvineFoundation there's a ton of
support coming from them.
There's a variety of churchesthat are supporting us South Bay
Community Church and New HopeChristian Fellowship.
Some of these, some churchesthat are kind of undergirding
our work, either in the, in ourhomes or in our community
(19:06):
engagement center, or with our,our IT Biz Tech Academy, john
Muir, community Health Fundthese, these are some of the
folks that are coming alongsideus and saying you know, I see
what you are doing, I believe inyou, I'm investing in you and
I'm allowing you to Ciscosystems.
We believe in where you'retaking the students, in the
(19:28):
sport that you're doing.
And then, of course, I want to,I want to just shout out all my
staff, my family.
They've been tremendous.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So yeah, absolutely All right.
Last and most importantquestion absolutely all right.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Last and most important question what is your
favorite snack?
Favorite snack?
Oh gosh, I don't even know if Ican answer that.
I would say I'm trying to getmore towards a veggie fruit,
okay, but it's always chocolate,always mike chocolate's good
and it's healthy, yeah, not likepeanut butter cups.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Moderation it's all in moderation, right.
So this, you know it's got.
It's got some good stuff inthere.
Yeah, all right, cool.
Thanks so much for coming onthe program appreciate it, thank
you mike you've been listeningto skills first, the
(20:23):
apprenticeship playbook podcast.
By the way, if this is valuableto you, don't be lame.
Share the game.
This is how we know you love it.
If you're a thinking aboutchanging how you hire, please
share it so we know this type ofstuff is what you want.
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