May 3, 2024 • 46 mins
Being neurodivergent and going through menopause earlier than our peers really threw us for a loop! In this episode we're sharing what helped us through it, and how we're coping on the other side. Take heart, friends, it won't last forever!
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:02):
Hello, hello.
It's been a minute. We needed alittle spring break for six
weeks.
I'm Elizabeth brink. SarahDurham. We are sleepy sisters. I
realize I have called this thesleepy sisters. But we are not
(00:23):
the only sisters that exist. Wehave another one. But also I'm
sure many of you out there. Soanyway,
we promised to say a few morethings about menopause. And then
because we are both dealing withmenopause,
(00:44):
we paused the podcast, I had arealization this morning that
this is also what happened withmy email newsletter if you
follow me there, which youprobably don't.
I totally had this series goingwhere I was talking about
medication management stuff, andmy menopause journey. And I
(01:05):
think I wrote twopieces of it and then dropped
off and had complete strangersemailing me asking like if they
missed the third installment andI was like,
Do you know, you left usdangling off the cliff. Let's
mark our words. We will neveragain do a two part series or a
(01:27):
multi part series because itcauses something to happen.
Well, never is. Okay. Isprobably that because
we were also discussing the factthat this is also kind of in
line because we don't reallyprepare, we just show up and
talk. Sometimes it's the momentwhere impulsive and we just
promised things. And so this onethought important, I guess
(01:50):
probably because we said we weregoing to not just that we said
we're going to do it becausethere's stuff that we could talk
about that no one really cares.
We were follow up. But we wereso passionate about all of the
things that go down. And then itwas like, Oh, cool. Thanks for
the awareness. Yeah, nothing.
Y'all can't go out and do yourown research. Because we would
(02:11):
still expect you to do that.
Even after listening to us,please, please do. We are not
experts. We are not doctors. Weare our experience. We're just
humans. Yes. Yeah.
Hey, on that note, I alsolistened back to the end of the
last episode to be like, whatdid we promise? I realized that
(02:33):
I also said that there was somegood things about metal. Okay,
yeah, your face y'all can know.
I mean, yeah, okay. Yeah.
Okay.
I'll say a few good things aboutit. Um, well, I grew up. Yeah, I
always got stuff. I just I haveto.
Oh, yeah, there is some goodstuff. Yeah. Okay.
(02:54):
It's coming to me. I'm livingit. So it's not like it's not
readily available in my brain.
Right? Yeah, right. That right,I am a little further out. So I
think maybe it's easier for meto retrieve anyway. So a lot of
rambling. Okay. So I want tostart by saying what I said at
the end of the last episode,which is find medical providers
and also like therapists andcoaches and whoever you work
(03:19):
with in your life that supportsyou in managing day to day life,
find people who are at leastopen to learning about the
middle aged body and mind. Likethe aging, I should say, the
aginghuman, even if they themselves
don't have a ton of experiencein it, finding people who are
(03:41):
willing to acknowledge that,hey, this is a really big piece
of context around how you'redoing, how you're feeling how
you're functioning, is a reallyimportant part of the whole
process. And midlife is justbeing around friends and
colleagues and other kinds ofpeople in your life, other than
(04:03):
just your doctors who cansupport you.
Andso, yeah, find people who can
surround you full transparency.
We've had to pause thisrecording twice now, but he was
having technical issues. Soepisode sounds a little choppy
(04:25):
or jumbly. It is not our noviceediting skills is that we are
trying to make sure we'reconnected. Okay, so yes, finding
find your people. Yes. and I arewe going to get into the doctor
part as far as like, yeah, wecan go for it. So I want to say
to that, you know, one of thethings about being a human with
(04:50):
ovaries is that a lot of themedical community and the
emphasis has not been put on alot of research especially
being people who are aging withovaries. And so, you know, one
of the things I think that weboth probably would want to
emphasize is that when you'relooking for medical
(05:12):
professionals, they should besomeone who is actually going
blank saying that they aretrained in menopause,
perimenopause. Or you ask themthat question, and it's beyond
just what they get in medicalschool, they don't get a ton of
training in medical school,going to an OB GYN or some other
type of specialist is notenough, they actually have to,
(05:35):
this is one of those things likewith therapists or coaches, that
additional training that youkeep doing, you know, as you
become those professionals,menopause, education is one of
those things, and a lot of thewomen doctors that Elizabeth and
I kind of, you know, follow willbe the first to say that and
(05:56):
explain what happens, and what'snot covered. And
also just that, when we'retalking about research, there is
research to support a lot ofwhat we say. But at the same
time, there's data coming outall the time, because now, it's
only now that this kind of lensis, is increasing. And people
(06:17):
are, you know, wanting andexpecting that community to
start researching and giving usmore information about what's
happening in our bodies. Yeah,and let's face it, this is one
of the gifts of an enormousgeneration, like the baby
boomers, that they are aging,and the medical community is
having like a great reckoningaround what happens to your body
(06:40):
as you age. And this is beyondgendered stuff, too. And so all
that to say, you do have to do alittle bit of advocacy, advocacy
for yourself a little education,a little research, networking,
asking around in your community,maybe you're a part of Facebook
groups or things like that,where you can ask who people are
(07:02):
going to for care in midlife.
The North American menopausesociety, they do have listings
of people that actually, youknow, that's one place to start.
Yeah, profit that will say ifsomeone is trained in that area,
I mean, Elizabeth and I bothreally are huge.
(07:25):
Like advocates for ourselves inthis way. And we probably
because of our history, and ourmother being sick for so long,
we might do a little moreresearch than the average
person. But I would say that, sohealth anxiety, cough, cough.
So I would say that, even forus, it's it's a multifaceted, or
(07:49):
for me, I will say it was amultifaceted process of finding,
not just someone who might hangtheir shingle and say that they
are, you know, trained in that.
But like Elizabeth said, talkingto other people that you know,
and trust and just hearing whatother people are having to say
about their experiences, becauseit is a very unique journey.
Yeah. And to be honest, like Ilive in Kansas City, Missouri,
(08:10):
they're finding menopausespecialists who are trained and
have additional, you know,education is a difficult thing
here. I don't have providers whoI would say are trained or have
any expertise. What I have isproviders who are open to me
(08:30):
saying, I believe this is tiedto menopause, I believe this is
menopause.
And who have been curious withme and collaborative that that
has made a big difference.
I also had a psychiatrist whowas able to say, Hey, your
(08:51):
hormones play an enormous rolein your mental health. And if
you're having these changes,then we have to be factoring
that in. So this is not peoplewho actually understand the
aging body necessarily, but whoare, you know, more
collaborative with theirpatients. And so, I think that's
(09:13):
the other piece is if you areworking with a provider, and you
just feel like you get a lot ofpushback or a lot of hesitancy
or doubt or like questioningyour instincts about yourself. I
would say that's a place to leanout and say, Well, let me just
see, maybe there's somebody outthere who would be curious with
(09:34):
me. That's a really good point,because I'm in the Dallas area,
and doctors are like donut shopsand nail salons here. I mean,
they're everywhere. And sokeeping that kind of privilege
in mind, there are somecommunities so I do you think
that's important, I think withtherapists as well, that comes
up a lot of like, are youwilling to like, be curious with
(09:56):
me outside of our meeting orinvalid
giving me that this is yeah. Andbelieving that, like your
education had limits to it,right. So you know, are you
generally kind of open andcurious and creative. This is
also why some people will preferproviders of all kinds who are
(10:19):
more recently trained, eventhough they have less experience
in the field, we're seeing somecome out of their training with
a little more openness, and alittle more humility around the
fact that they don't knoweverything, and that listening
to people's lived experiencesand believing them might
actually make them incredibleproviders someday.
(10:42):
Yeah. So with that said, I am onmenopause hormone therapy. And I
recommend that anybody who iseligible for it, because there's
criteria around if it's going tobe a good option for you, but I
really recommend finding someonewho's going to explore that with
(11:03):
you as an option, if you don'thave a history of certain kinds
of cancers and heart conditions.
But there's newer research outnow there was like a big scare
about hormone therapy decadesago, that was based on a study
that was actually debunked. Butlike, because the media frenzy
(11:25):
around hormone therapy hadalready spread this fear about
it. The fact that the study, itwas based on being kind of
garbage didn't reverse publicopinion. And so we have decades
and decades of aging, people whohave not tried hormone therapy
(11:46):
out of fear from really oldrhetoric that was actually based
on inaccurate information. Soit's like tragic, it's so
infuriating. But we now have alittle more research to show the
true situation around the risksof hormone therapy. In fact, NPR
(12:07):
just released a piece about it,I think in the last few days, so
you might like look that up, butit can be considered safe for a
lot of people. And so Idefinitely recommend exploring
that. And that I think, assomething that has helped me
personally with a lot ofsymptoms that I don't think, are
(12:29):
like on label, right, like, ifyou're going to like get hormone
therapy, it's for like hotflashes, and night sweats. It's
like there's data and researchto prove that it helps with
those things.
However, anecdotally, and livedexperience wise, a lot of people
(12:51):
will talk about these othereffects they believe that have
come from taking hormonetherapy. So again, this is like
in the hearsay category, this isjust my personal experience, but
it affected my skin becausemenopause is very drying to your
entire person. And it affectedthat and it slowed that down for
(13:14):
me.
It improved pretty drastically,a prolapse that I have, which
I'm not going to get intobecause it's like, I don't know
how we're getting, my organs arefalling out of my body is what
I'm saying. And look it up. It'sout that estrogen plays a huge
role in your pelvic floorstrength and those organs kind
(13:39):
of your pelvic organs beingwhere it should be. And, and I'm
saying that the hormone therapyaffected it because it is the
only thing I changed. I wasn'tlike doing anything differently.
And so even though my doctor islike, Oh, great, you've been
doing all these things. I'mlike, No,
I've been doing all these days.
That's the only thing thatchanged. I have only been
(14:01):
strength training for like twomonths.
improvement from yours is dude,I believe to the hormone
therapy.
And the hormone therapy that Iam on is an oral progesterone
and then a patch for estrogen.
AndI just, I also felt emotionally
(14:23):
like more available to myfamily. When I started taking
it. I felt lessI felt less anxious and yeah,
just generally it wasn't It'snot magic and I certainly still
have a lot of changes in my bodythat like cannot be reversed and
(14:43):
are creating various degrees ofdiscomfort in my life but are a
lot more manageable because it'snot in addition to these a bunch
of other things. I don't feellike my body is like totally
falling apart.
and I was feeling like that fora minute. There are a year and a
(15:04):
half.
So yeah, I think it's a I thinkit's worth
I think it's worth exploring. Ialso at the beginning of going
through menopause, I started anSSRI, so an anti depressant to
help with intrusive thoughts,and anxiety and all kinds of
(15:24):
things.
And I did that instead of ananti anxiety because
I was also taking stimulants forADHD, there was just like, all
these decisions around like,what really needed the support
was I wasn't sleeping well. Ihad a really upset stomach a lot
of the time. And I was reallyanxious about people in my life
(15:44):
getting hurt.
And I did not know that it wasmenopause. So I just felt like
I'm having a breakdown. And mybody is physically not okay, so
like, maybe I should take somemedicine. So I started taking
medication, and then the hormonetherapy. And then eventually I
(16:07):
did wean off of the SSRI, whichwas hard to do, but I did it.
And I still sometimes wonder ifI should go back on it.
I haven't been on it for alittle over a year. And
I think I wanted to come off itbecause I was curious about.
I was just curious about a lotof things. Once I realized it
(16:28):
was menopause, I was kind oflike, oh, well, what's my
baseline? Is this is just a hugeshift, and not like a mental
breakdown or a big mood disorderthan like, where am I in here?
And what kind of support do Iactually need right now? And so
I weaned off of a bunch of stuffto kind of get a sense of
(16:49):
what was needed in terms ofmedication support.
Do you feel like sharinganything about your meds? You
don't have to know? Yeah, well,because I think ours was a
little different. So maybe it'dbe helpful. So I got on HRT as
well. And I am currently on theprogesterone pill and the
(17:13):
transdermal patch, I did try theother the pill for the estrogen
at first.
Which with the new data outfeels less problematic, but I'll
be honest, I feel better withthe patch. It just seems to be
in my system a little bitbetter. When I first started
(17:34):
HRT, I, I think I talked a lotabout my symptoms in the last
episode. But the biggest oneswere the impending doom, night
sweats. I mean, I would wake uplike I had been splashed with a
bucket of water. I mean, it wasinsane. I've never experienced
anything like that. I couldn'tremember things. I felt just
(17:54):
brain fog all the time. I feltlike, you know, I was always
walking into rooms forgettingwhat I was doing. I'm not saying
that's totally cured. But forthe most part, if you'd asked
me, could I learn a new skillback then, with the body going
into some type of like stressresponse? I would have said, No,
I would have said like, whateverI'm doing, I'm going to keep
(18:15):
doing it. Even if it's reallyhard on me.
Because acquiring newinformation, I feel like I feel
better now in that area than Idid. Even in my
early to mid 30s. When Iprobably was starting to decline
a little bit, you know, I thinkmaybe not then maybe like late
(18:36):
30s, early 40s. But I feel Ioften will pause now. And I will
just say to myself, like, wow,my brain feels like it's kind of
running on all four. All fourcylinders right now. Yeah, it's
quite bizarre. I mean, whenbecause I can still remember the
contrast right? Now I'm sureit's probably not the same as
(18:58):
when I was in my 20s. Butcompared to what it was, I mean,
I felt adult all the time justkind of walking around. I didn't
go on anything else. So this wasreally truly the only change. I
was having panic attacks. Thosestopped immediately. I was able
to start sleeping.
(19:19):
I was couldn't sleep. I mean,that was probably the first
thing I was noticing. And itwasn't even just the night
sweats. Because sometimes Iwouldn't have those I just was
like wide awake laying. Why? Howcan I can't say I haven't slept,
I should definitely be able tosleep.
And just my overall mood, theimpending doom in fact, when I
first got on the HRT, I starteda very, very low dose because
(19:45):
I just I just was unsure and Ititrate it up over like six
months. And it was not an I likeI think I said in the last
episode, I think I was stillkind of paramedic. I think I was
so perimenopause was like rightat the end. So I still had
Some estrogen coming in mysystem. And when that I could
tell the shift of when thatended, because a lot of my
(20:07):
symptoms started coming back, Ijust did not have enough
estrogen in my system. And thenI had to go up to a higher dose.
And then I was like, within likea week or two, I was like, oh,
okay, so that was it. I was. Andnow I kind of can tell when
things aremaybe shifting or in those last
couple of titrations? I could, Icould say that. So, for me, it
(20:29):
was a huge fundamental shift.
And I did add other things forhealth, which I'm sure we'll
talk about shortly.
I really consider menopausebeing an all hands on deck
approach. I don't think there'sany like, Oh, I'm just gonna get
(20:49):
on HRT, or Oh, I'm just gonna goto therapy. Or I'm just going to
do this. I mean, when I thinkabout all hands on deck, I mean,
of any season in my life.
This is the most multifacetedSystem of Supports coming from
every direction. And I'm alwaysbrainstorming, and she's nodding
and like, yes, then I've everhad, even as a mom have a
(21:12):
newborn. I mean, it is reallylike, Where else can I find
support? What type of support?
How will that change? Andyeah, so as far as the meds go,
I do take some supplements tohelp with my sleep.
But I think before we get intolike any of that stuff, do you
(21:33):
want to talk aboutother supports that you've
employed? Like, I mean, I lovewhat you just said about like,
this being just like, highneeds, season of life. And I
think that there can be, it canfeel kind of contradictory,
because you're also coming intothis season of, like, the cares,
(21:55):
you a lot to certain things inlife, start shifting, like, your
capacity changes. And sosuddenly, you don't want to give
the energy or the care tocertain things anymore. And so
it almost seems like, oh, maybemy capacity could expand,
(22:16):
because I'm just not going toget involved in certain things
anymore, I'm going to, like, notshut on myself about how I
should be showing up in my lifeor my work or whatever. And, and
the reality is that that changedoesn't necessarily like free up
capacity. For other actions, itlike frees up capacity for
(22:41):
recovery.
Right, like it makes room sothat you can breathe so that
your whole system and your bodycan like lay low, and do the
like slowing and the quietingthat is like
very craved in a lot ofmidlife bodies, I think. And,
and so it's interesting, becauseI would say like, I'm not doing
(23:06):
as much as I used to do.
And I still feel tired. Andalso,
I am supporting myself in waysthat if I am judgey, and if I'm
in my like 31 year old self, I'mlike what you can't like keep up
(23:29):
with the laundry, you can't helpmore around the house, you can't
deep clean your house and have ajob and raise young kids. And
I'm like no, no Jedi Jedicertain I cannot do all of those
things. I need space in my lifewhere there is not pushing all
the time. And it's a privilegethat I have a little bit of that
(23:51):
space. And I'm able to do that.
So some of the supports for meare like having someone who
helps deep clean our houseand having
agreements with my partneraround housework, it is not all
on me and meals and things likethat. And doctor's appointments
(24:12):
for the kids and right like allthese things that I think the
invisible labor stuff that lotsof people have written and
talked about, that moms andwomen tend to do
in their workplaces and infamilies. And I just have like
given myself permission to notbe doing all the time so much
(24:34):
and to be like allowed to say Ihave a limit and like I don't
want to do that. I don't want topush myself to a place where I'm
then like totally worn out allof next week while I still am
going to need energy.
And that feels like a reallysupportive thing that has been
like hard won, and I'm stillworking on it. Like it's still
(24:56):
hard to have limits butWhat I have found is this
postmenopausal body of minehas limits and it, it doesn't
have as much ability to pushthrough them like I used to. And
so I kind of have to honor them,which is in the name of
celebrating things, is kind of anice thing in terms of learning
(25:17):
to, like, really respect andcare for my body. Because it
will, it will talk back to me ina way that is like,
uncomfortable. AndI'm glad to be in this kind of
relationship with my body now.
Yeah, it's so funny, becausejust hearing you talk, I was
(25:39):
thinking about Elizabeth andI've had many conversations
about something adjacent tothat. And that's just this idea
that like, the the stuff, theall hands on deck. And I guess
I'll speak for myself, becauseher situation may be a little
different. She started prettyyoung, but not that I wasn't
(25:59):
young, but super young. And so Ifeel like a lot because
both of us were younger. It wasshe was definitely caught off
guard, I was mostly like,because I've been gaslit, you
know, for so long about it was alittle caught off guard. And so
I was still in that really,hustle capitalist like, grind, I
(26:24):
was a teacher. And there was allit was like this perfect storm
of stress. And so when I got onHRT and was doing all these
things, and started adding thesedifferent approaches,
I got kicked right in the HSS.
Right after because I was doingit as a means to an end to get
back to that grind. And what Ifound was, it was not possible
(26:46):
anymore. And I didn't want itanymore. And it wasn't a means
to an end to get back to where Iwas before that there was this
grief around who I was before,even though it wasn't healthy.
It was like the way I wasoperating the way I showed up to
things the way I got stuff done.
And so there's this entirebottom up shift of how you
(27:11):
approach your life that is partof that all hands on deck. And
so I would caution anyone who'sjust like, oh, yeah, I've been
feeling a certain type of way. Ithink this is me, or they go
into this thinking that this,you know, because you'll see
influencers, you'll see peopleout there and everyone's journey
is unique. So maybe there arepeople out there I don't know,
(27:32):
like scaling buildings and doingall kinds of crazy stuff right
now in the midst of postmenopause. But for us, there was
a tremendous amount of grief.
And she especially I will say itwas robbed, essentially, quote
unquote, of like some years thatshe definitely thought she was
going to get with that type ofenergy. And so when we talk
(27:54):
about this, this grief aspect,as well, and I'll have her talk
about in just a second is a biga big thing that you're going to
have. Most people on not sayeverybody may have to like
tussle with. Because it's all ofthese things. I will say this
(28:14):
all hands on deck is just too.
It's just different. I don'twant to say to survive, because
I don't feel like I'm surviving.
I do feel in some areas, I amthriving. It's just all so
different. Yet so different. Iwas seeing like people who go
through menopause at 60 or 65,maybe aren't grieving, they
(28:35):
might be grieving before becausethey're having to wait so long.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, I think whenwe talk about the energy of the
before, times energy, a big partof that is hormones. It is that
monthly cycle, that boost ofenergy that happens after day
(28:57):
one of your new cycle, when youfour or five days later,
estrogen starts to spike, andthere is energetically this
shift. And that going away,can feel really destabilizing
and disorienting. Because it'slike, oh, it's such a drag to
have that ebb and flowthroughout your life. It can
(29:20):
feel like a tug of war. Like whydo I feel so bad for weeks at a
time and then I feel really,really good. And then I feel so
bad. But you also can kind oflean into that and start
noticing like, Oh, but I do feelreally good sometimes. And maybe
I can do more when I'm feelingreally good. And that up and
down is no longer available andand it's so it's like
(29:43):
disorienting. It's also onceonce the dust settles, it is one
of the best parts of goingthrough menopause is that I am
no longer being pushed around bymy hormones in this way. And so
Oh yes, I'm not getting thoseboosts. But I'm also not having
(30:03):
these big dips anymore. And soonce I think I adjusted to, oh,
my baseline is different. Andit's affecting lots of functions
in my body. But I can find thislike new normal and lean into it
a little bit that has provided alittle bit of like, I don't miss
(30:26):
having a period at all.
At all, sorry, if you'relistening, and this is like very
uncomfortable, and you don'tlike it, but whatever. It's a
part of life. But yeah, thatlike monthly cycle, which was
never on time on a certainclock. For me, it was always a
surprise, which is some of myneurodivergent.
(30:49):
I mean, seriously, in my 30s, Ithink I had a roommate that was
like, wow, you're like, stillsurprised by your period,
a trait of ADHD.
I was regular. And I was stilllike, confused. I feel like oh,
my gosh, the world is ending,like such a terrible day, such a
terrible job and world. And thenI would like start my period the
(31:09):
next day and be like, Oh, mygosh, why don't I know when I
feel that low that that's what'scoming. But I never ever figured
that out. In fact, also didn'tnotice that I was going through
menopause tracks. Take it allwith a grain of salt.
But yeah, I mean, there was alot of grief around being in my
(31:32):
early 40s, having two youngchildren and feeling like, Oh,
I'm now in this body that'sgoing to just run at a lower
baseline. And I still need to beable to kind of like grind here
and there and push through. Andthat felt
(31:53):
unfair. Yeah, I mean, I'mwatching some of my peers do
things with their kids as theirkids are in middle school, high
school, college, and I'm justlike, oh, okay, I'm just not
going to get that like midlifeexperience. As a parent. I'm
going to just be an older momright away. And
yeah, that was hard to reconcileit still is, but I, I feel like
(32:19):
it's been four years. And Idefinitely feel like I am on the
other side of like, the deepestpart of the pit. Like what is
happening to me, I feel like I'mmoving out of that. And so it
doesn't feel so bad anymore. SoI also want to say that, like,
you're going throughperimenopause, which can last up
to 10 years, sorry to tell you.
(32:41):
And then you go through themenopause transition, which is
just basically you stop having aperiod. And after a year, when
you're a certain age, after ayear, they'll say, Okay, now
you're postmenopausal.
And they say that because youcan still have a random period
really up until like, close totwo years sometimes. And
(33:03):
And once that stops happening,then it's almost like your body
goes through the final changesof like shifting into that next
stage of life. And systems startto really adjust to like, Oh,
we're not getting any moreboosts of hormones, what we, you
get what you get, and you don'tget upset.
And so that process for meanyway, took a few years to like
(33:28):
settle into and for like allsystems to figure out where go
is now. And I'm I'm finally atthat place where I'm starting to
have kind of a sense of normal,and it feels so much better,
like I am doing so much better.
And absolutely with the help ofsomatic therapy, with
(33:48):
medications with hormonereplacement, with a really
supportive partner. And my kidsgetting a little bit older, and
working for myself and havingflexibility in my day to day
like all these supports. Lindseywho helps clean our house like
these people who support mehaving my sisters on text
(34:13):
available anytime to just likespout off about things like
that. The connection points andthe people who are surrounding
me, I feel really wellsupported. And I feel like I'm
going to be okay, like, I'mgoing to be okay, I'm coming
back up for air. I actually ambuilding some friendships, which
(34:35):
to me, for me is a sign of howI'm doing is my social
engagement outside of workstuff. And so, I just want to
say if you're in perimenopauseor your early post menopause
hang in there. It does getbetter things do stabilize, and
it can feel really hard to holdon.
(35:00):
to that in the midst of it, andso whatever supports you can
bring online for yourself tohelp you hang on, do it.
Yeah, it was just the way here'swhat I was thinking. Okay, so I
think I'm in that final, becauseI noticed even some changes just
in the last like six months,even though nothing has changed.
(35:21):
Input wise, it's like, Hmm,something's happening. And I'm
so in tune with my body. But Iwas thinking about your point of
like, just talk about thesomatic therapy as if it I will
say that for me, too, I neededbecause I'm a woman, I'm the
oldest sister. And we were timelayers here, people,
(35:44):
I had to do a lot of inner childstuff, I had to do a lot of like
nervous system repair. And like,because taking up the kind of
space that you have to take upto kind of care for yourself in
the season, in a society thatone like, doesn't even want to
look in your direction too muchanymore. And then you know,
(36:04):
you're going up against otherpeople's like lenses, and things
like that is not for the faintof heart. And so having anyone
who is willing, like Elizabethsaid early in the podcast to
like, listen, or like toacknowledge that this is a
thing, and trigger warning oflike self harm. So if you want
to, like,pause, whatever the take, it's
(36:27):
gonna be very brief. But womenbetween 45 and 55, that's the
highest incidence of suicide.
And now that we have gonethrough it, we know, and can see
very clearly how that could be adistinct possibility. And if you
are struggling and having thosethoughts, that is, that's a 911,
(36:50):
that's you need to reach out tosomeone as soon as possible.
But all that to say is thattaking up this kind of space,
even now, it's still I stillhave to titrate that in, you
know, like one of my supports isbecause of the sleep thing,
because I have anxiety as wellis like, you know, she was
(37:12):
talking about her husband mine,one of my main is that I have to
get that early morning sunlightand go on a walk in the morning.
So that my circadian rhythm isset so that I can just take some
magnesium and titanium and go tosleep at night, do some like
breathing and meditation orwhatever. And so I want to go to
bed, I want to actually be in mybed. But you know, if it were
(37:36):
totally up to me, it would belike seven with the door open.
And the kids would come in,like, I'm grandpa, Joe and
Charlie in the chocolate.
That would be ideal for me,okay. But I usually negotiate
like, after I get the youngestdown. So like between eight and
830.
(37:58):
I come in and I you know, I'mhonestly by nine o'clock, right?
Because I get up really early.
And if I my sleep is jacked for,you know, for some reason, I
usually only will get it on thefront end of the night. So he
sleeps in a little bit longer, Igo to bed a little bit earlier,
and we can dip, you know, taketurns on, like the shift, so to
(38:18):
speak and a little bit differentway. So I share that too. Just
as another example of like,it's taken a lot of creativity,
it's taken a lot of like meleaning in listening to my body
when it was the talks aboutCymatics talking about like
really learning to like, leaninto what my body is telling me
(38:39):
and yeah, I'm neurodivergent aswell, eldest sister, you ignore
your whole life, it takes aminute to kind of get to know
its language. And yeah, and Ithink it's a really important
piece that I'm really grateful.
And I will say to if we're talkjust briefly about what's been
(39:03):
so good is I would never havepursued or I wouldn't have
thought to pursue that earlyenough in my life, which now I'm
so glad for my as a mother andnow I have all these years left,
you know, hopefully, that I haveaccess to this this other
therapeutic modality that Iwould never have known about I
only thought there was talktherapy and, and things like
(39:24):
that and, and and how healingthat's been for me
because of my all hands on deckmental approach to the
situation. I've opened myselfup, I'd never could meditate
before because, you know, I wasin a constant stress. I was just
constantly stressed out. Iactually had to do some nervous
system repair. Elizabeth helpswith some of that. I had a
(39:47):
therapist help with some of thatand in order to even be able to
sit still and do that for alittle bit. So I mean, for me,
that has been really great andand when when she was speaking
earlier, it'sYou are when you respond, I keep
talking to them, like, I don'tnormally do that, but whatever,
um, is that when you were sayingwe're not having the dips is
that I have an older child, he'sa grown up out in the world. And
(40:12):
then I have the two youngerelementary schoolers. And for
someone who's a neurodivergentwoman who has been really
oh man, behold, in a lot of waysto my cycle for a lot of years,
PMDD all the other stuff, to beable to raise some of my
(40:35):
children for part of their lifein a little more stabilized way
of being able to access and nothaving some of those
unpredictability that come withthe hormone ups and downs, I'm
not saying listen, I still loseit. And I still like have stuff,
because I'm still tired, like,you know how to repair. And you
know, what's happening, when Icame down even more, I had just
(40:59):
have access to things I neverhad access to, because of this
kind of crossroads of having tolike live life in a different
way. Totally. And I think the,the somatic healing piece has
been huge for me, too. And Iknow there are people out there
(41:20):
who say it's not for everyone.
And I really believe that thereis some type of somatic healing
modality or practice that ispossible for anyone, I really, I
don't think it's one size fitsall. But if it's yoga for you,
or if it's meditation, or ifit's, you know, working with a
(41:40):
somatic therapist who's trainedin some kind of somatic
modality, reconnecting to yourbody and getting to know it's
language, I do believe ispossible for everyone. And I
want to just encourage people tolike, be creative, and keep
trying to find ways to beconnected to yourself. And maybe
(42:02):
that's that, like, you used tobe a swimmer. And you get back
into swimming or things likethat, right that like or you
used to bake all the time, andyou haven't in a while, and you
get back into that and you'reusing your hands and your body
to create, like there's allthese ways that we can get
embodied, that I think arereally important. And then in
(42:22):
addition to that, I just want tosay like being in this world is
really traumatic for a lot ofpeople. And so working with a
trauma therapist, especially onewho is interested in what your
body has to say about whatyou're experiencing or have
experienced, can be a veryliberating process. And it can
(42:43):
mean that going throughperimenopause can look very
different. Like if I had hadthis training 15 years ago, and
this, you know, access to thissomatic therapist. I don't know
what perimenopause and earlymotherhood would have looked
like. I suspect it would havelooked really different. My
(43:06):
capacity for stress and fearwould have been really
different. And my ability torecover would have been
different. And soyes, our bodies can be
unpredictable. I think theymostly feel unpredictable,
because as Sarah mentionedearlier, no one's studied them.
And so everybody's just likewill assume mysterious and
unpredictable. But there's a lotabout our bodies that is
(43:30):
knowable. And I think thepursuit of knowing them, even to
the degree of understanding,menopause, and perimenopause,
even if you may never experienceit firsthand, I think is a part
of like blessing the communityof humans you're around and
(43:51):
knowing that ageing bodies isa thing and that people around
you are aging and you will beaging and it matters to
understand that that means yourlife is going to look different
and your needs are going to lookdifferent. And the people next
to you are going to need thingsdifferently and require things
(44:14):
differently of you and like wehave to be in this together. And
that's a big part of why I talkabout it so much even when I
have no idea who the people arethat are listening here or even
on Instagram or whatever or youknow dinner parties. I will say
I want to say one more thingabout what you just said too, is
that that embodiment party is isis no joke when it comes to the
(44:37):
quality of our lives. Andthat's with the caveat that like
you know, obviously likewhat Elizabeth said she believes
everyone has can have access tothat with all the things that
she said sort of wants to justmake as a complete when it gets
statement, I guess I don't know.
(44:57):
But I will say thatAs a parent, tapping into that
embodiment because your wholelife, we're just, we just think
of our law, I just thought ofmyself as a brain. And my body
was an inconvenience, it waslike things that would get in my
way. And now that I realize I ama body, like my kids are a body,
right? Like that has challengedme and encouraged me, to teach
(45:22):
them and to model to them.
There's all kinds of wisdom andthings to be to be known and to
be utilized for the quality oftheir own lives that I would
never have had because of thatprocess. And I just, I feel like
if nothing else came out ofbeing in menopause, that would
(45:44):
be enough for a lifetime. Oh,yeah. Yeah. Well, for
generations, right. Yeah.
We're changing things for thenext ones. Yeah. Okay, well,
good check. Yep. I will haveyou. Let me do it later. Bye.
Hello, hello.
It's been a minute. We needed alittle spring break for six
weeks.
I'm Elizabeth brink. SarahDurham. We are sleepy sisters. I
realize I have called this thesleepy sisters. But we are not
(00:23):
the only sisters that exist. Wehave another one. But also I'm
sure many of you out there. Soanyway,
we promised to say a few morethings about menopause. And then
because we are both dealing withmenopause,
(00:44):
we paused the podcast, I had arealization this morning that
this is also what happened withmy email newsletter if you
follow me there, which youprobably don't.
I totally had this series goingwhere I was talking about
medication management stuff, andmy menopause journey. And I
(01:05):
think I wrote twopieces of it and then dropped
off and had complete strangersemailing me asking like if they
missed the third installment andI was like,
Do you know, you left usdangling off the cliff. Let's
mark our words. We will neveragain do a two part series or a
(01:27):
multi part series because itcauses something to happen.
Well, never is. Okay. Isprobably that because
we were also discussing the factthat this is also kind of in
line because we don't reallyprepare, we just show up and
talk. Sometimes it's the momentwhere impulsive and we just
promised things. And so this onethought important, I guess
(01:50):
probably because we said we weregoing to not just that we said
we're going to do it becausethere's stuff that we could talk
about that no one really cares.
We were follow up. But we wereso passionate about all of the
things that go down. And then itwas like, Oh, cool. Thanks for
the awareness. Yeah, nothing.
Y'all can't go out and do yourown research. Because we would
(02:11):
still expect you to do that.
Even after listening to us,please, please do. We are not
experts. We are not doctors. Weare our experience. We're just
humans. Yes. Yeah.
Hey, on that note, I alsolistened back to the end of the
last episode to be like, whatdid we promise? I realized that
(02:33):
I also said that there was somegood things about metal. Okay,
yeah, your face y'all can know.
I mean, yeah, okay. Yeah.
Okay.
I'll say a few good things aboutit. Um, well, I grew up. Yeah, I
always got stuff. I just I haveto.
Oh, yeah, there is some goodstuff. Yeah. Okay.
(02:54):
It's coming to me. I'm livingit. So it's not like it's not
readily available in my brain.
Right? Yeah, right. That right,I am a little further out. So I
think maybe it's easier for meto retrieve anyway. So a lot of
rambling. Okay. So I want tostart by saying what I said at
the end of the last episode,which is find medical providers
and also like therapists andcoaches and whoever you work
(03:19):
with in your life that supportsyou in managing day to day life,
find people who are at leastopen to learning about the
middle aged body and mind. Likethe aging, I should say, the
aginghuman, even if they themselves
don't have a ton of experiencein it, finding people who are
(03:41):
willing to acknowledge that,hey, this is a really big piece
of context around how you'redoing, how you're feeling how
you're functioning, is a reallyimportant part of the whole
process. And midlife is justbeing around friends and
colleagues and other kinds ofpeople in your life, other than
(04:03):
just your doctors who cansupport you.
Andso, yeah, find people who can
surround you full transparency.
We've had to pause thisrecording twice now, but he was
having technical issues. Soepisode sounds a little choppy
(04:25):
or jumbly. It is not our noviceediting skills is that we are
trying to make sure we'reconnected. Okay, so yes, finding
find your people. Yes. and I arewe going to get into the doctor
part as far as like, yeah, wecan go for it. So I want to say
to that, you know, one of thethings about being a human with
(04:50):
ovaries is that a lot of themedical community and the
emphasis has not been put on alot of research especially
being people who are aging withovaries. And so, you know, one
of the things I think that weboth probably would want to
emphasize is that when you'relooking for medical
(05:12):
professionals, they should besomeone who is actually going
blank saying that they aretrained in menopause,
perimenopause. Or you ask themthat question, and it's beyond
just what they get in medicalschool, they don't get a ton of
training in medical school,going to an OB GYN or some other
type of specialist is notenough, they actually have to,
(05:35):
this is one of those things likewith therapists or coaches, that
additional training that youkeep doing, you know, as you
become those professionals,menopause, education is one of
those things, and a lot of thewomen doctors that Elizabeth and
I kind of, you know, follow willbe the first to say that and
(05:56):
explain what happens, and what'snot covered. And
also just that, when we'retalking about research, there is
research to support a lot ofwhat we say. But at the same
time, there's data coming outall the time, because now, it's
only now that this kind of lensis, is increasing. And people
(06:17):
are, you know, wanting andexpecting that community to
start researching and giving usmore information about what's
happening in our bodies. Yeah,and let's face it, this is one
of the gifts of an enormousgeneration, like the baby
boomers, that they are aging,and the medical community is
having like a great reckoningaround what happens to your body
(06:40):
as you age. And this is beyondgendered stuff, too. And so all
that to say, you do have to do alittle bit of advocacy, advocacy
for yourself a little education,a little research, networking,
asking around in your community,maybe you're a part of Facebook
groups or things like that,where you can ask who people are
(07:02):
going to for care in midlife.
The North American menopausesociety, they do have listings
of people that actually, youknow, that's one place to start.
Yeah, profit that will say ifsomeone is trained in that area,
I mean, Elizabeth and I bothreally are huge.
(07:25):
Like advocates for ourselves inthis way. And we probably
because of our history, and ourmother being sick for so long,
we might do a little moreresearch than the average
person. But I would say that, sohealth anxiety, cough, cough.
So I would say that, even forus, it's it's a multifaceted, or
(07:49):
for me, I will say it was amultifaceted process of finding,
not just someone who might hangtheir shingle and say that they
are, you know, trained in that.
But like Elizabeth said, talkingto other people that you know,
and trust and just hearing whatother people are having to say
about their experiences, becauseit is a very unique journey.
Yeah. And to be honest, like Ilive in Kansas City, Missouri,
(08:10):
they're finding menopausespecialists who are trained and
have additional, you know,education is a difficult thing
here. I don't have providers whoI would say are trained or have
any expertise. What I have isproviders who are open to me
(08:30):
saying, I believe this is tiedto menopause, I believe this is
menopause.
And who have been curious withme and collaborative that that
has made a big difference.
I also had a psychiatrist whowas able to say, Hey, your
(08:51):
hormones play an enormous rolein your mental health. And if
you're having these changes,then we have to be factoring
that in. So this is not peoplewho actually understand the
aging body necessarily, but whoare, you know, more
collaborative with theirpatients. And so, I think that's
(09:13):
the other piece is if you areworking with a provider, and you
just feel like you get a lot ofpushback or a lot of hesitancy
or doubt or like questioningyour instincts about yourself. I
would say that's a place to leanout and say, Well, let me just
see, maybe there's somebody outthere who would be curious with
(09:34):
me. That's a really good point,because I'm in the Dallas area,
and doctors are like donut shopsand nail salons here. I mean,
they're everywhere. And sokeeping that kind of privilege
in mind, there are somecommunities so I do you think
that's important, I think withtherapists as well, that comes
up a lot of like, are youwilling to like, be curious with
(09:56):
me outside of our meeting orinvalid
giving me that this is yeah. Andbelieving that, like your
education had limits to it,right. So you know, are you
generally kind of open andcurious and creative. This is
also why some people will preferproviders of all kinds who are
(10:19):
more recently trained, eventhough they have less experience
in the field, we're seeing somecome out of their training with
a little more openness, and alittle more humility around the
fact that they don't knoweverything, and that listening
to people's lived experiencesand believing them might
actually make them incredibleproviders someday.
(10:42):
Yeah. So with that said, I am onmenopause hormone therapy. And I
recommend that anybody who iseligible for it, because there's
criteria around if it's going tobe a good option for you, but I
really recommend finding someonewho's going to explore that with
(11:03):
you as an option, if you don'thave a history of certain kinds
of cancers and heart conditions.
But there's newer research outnow there was like a big scare
about hormone therapy decadesago, that was based on a study
that was actually debunked. Butlike, because the media frenzy
(11:25):
around hormone therapy hadalready spread this fear about
it. The fact that the study, itwas based on being kind of
garbage didn't reverse publicopinion. And so we have decades
and decades of aging, people whohave not tried hormone therapy
(11:46):
out of fear from really oldrhetoric that was actually based
on inaccurate information. Soit's like tragic, it's so
infuriating. But we now have alittle more research to show the
true situation around the risksof hormone therapy. In fact, NPR
(12:07):
just released a piece about it,I think in the last few days, so
you might like look that up, butit can be considered safe for a
lot of people. And so Idefinitely recommend exploring
that. And that I think, assomething that has helped me
personally with a lot ofsymptoms that I don't think, are
(12:29):
like on label, right, like, ifyou're going to like get hormone
therapy, it's for like hotflashes, and night sweats. It's
like there's data and researchto prove that it helps with
those things.
However, anecdotally, and livedexperience wise, a lot of people
(12:51):
will talk about these othereffects they believe that have
come from taking hormonetherapy. So again, this is like
in the hearsay category, this isjust my personal experience, but
it affected my skin becausemenopause is very drying to your
entire person. And it affectedthat and it slowed that down for
(13:14):
me.
It improved pretty drastically,a prolapse that I have, which
I'm not going to get intobecause it's like, I don't know
how we're getting, my organs arefalling out of my body is what
I'm saying. And look it up. It'sout that estrogen plays a huge
role in your pelvic floorstrength and those organs kind
(13:39):
of your pelvic organs beingwhere it should be. And, and I'm
saying that the hormone therapyaffected it because it is the
only thing I changed. I wasn'tlike doing anything differently.
And so even though my doctor islike, Oh, great, you've been
doing all these things. I'mlike, No,
I've been doing all these days.
That's the only thing thatchanged. I have only been
(14:01):
strength training for like twomonths.
improvement from yours is dude,I believe to the hormone
therapy.
And the hormone therapy that Iam on is an oral progesterone
and then a patch for estrogen.
AndI just, I also felt emotionally
(14:23):
like more available to myfamily. When I started taking
it. I felt lessI felt less anxious and yeah,
just generally it wasn't It'snot magic and I certainly still
have a lot of changes in my bodythat like cannot be reversed and
(14:43):
are creating various degrees ofdiscomfort in my life but are a
lot more manageable because it'snot in addition to these a bunch
of other things. I don't feellike my body is like totally
falling apart.
and I was feeling like that fora minute. There are a year and a
(15:04):
half.
So yeah, I think it's a I thinkit's worth
I think it's worth exploring. Ialso at the beginning of going
through menopause, I started anSSRI, so an anti depressant to
help with intrusive thoughts,and anxiety and all kinds of
(15:24):
things.
And I did that instead of ananti anxiety because
I was also taking stimulants forADHD, there was just like, all
these decisions around like,what really needed the support
was I wasn't sleeping well. Ihad a really upset stomach a lot
of the time. And I was reallyanxious about people in my life
(15:44):
getting hurt.
And I did not know that it wasmenopause. So I just felt like
I'm having a breakdown. And mybody is physically not okay, so
like, maybe I should take somemedicine. So I started taking
medication, and then the hormonetherapy. And then eventually I
(16:07):
did wean off of the SSRI, whichwas hard to do, but I did it.
And I still sometimes wonder ifI should go back on it.
I haven't been on it for alittle over a year. And
I think I wanted to come off itbecause I was curious about.
I was just curious about a lotof things. Once I realized it
(16:28):
was menopause, I was kind oflike, oh, well, what's my
baseline? Is this is just a hugeshift, and not like a mental
breakdown or a big mood disorderthan like, where am I in here?
And what kind of support do Iactually need right now? And so
I weaned off of a bunch of stuffto kind of get a sense of
(16:49):
what was needed in terms ofmedication support.
Do you feel like sharinganything about your meds? You
don't have to know? Yeah, well,because I think ours was a
little different. So maybe it'dbe helpful. So I got on HRT as
well. And I am currently on theprogesterone pill and the
(17:13):
transdermal patch, I did try theother the pill for the estrogen
at first.
Which with the new data outfeels less problematic, but I'll
be honest, I feel better withthe patch. It just seems to be
in my system a little bitbetter. When I first started
(17:34):
HRT, I, I think I talked a lotabout my symptoms in the last
episode. But the biggest oneswere the impending doom, night
sweats. I mean, I would wake uplike I had been splashed with a
bucket of water. I mean, it wasinsane. I've never experienced
anything like that. I couldn'tremember things. I felt just
(17:54):
brain fog all the time. I feltlike, you know, I was always
walking into rooms forgettingwhat I was doing. I'm not saying
that's totally cured. But forthe most part, if you'd asked
me, could I learn a new skillback then, with the body going
into some type of like stressresponse? I would have said, No,
I would have said like, whateverI'm doing, I'm going to keep
(18:15):
doing it. Even if it's reallyhard on me.
Because acquiring newinformation, I feel like I feel
better now in that area than Idid. Even in my
early to mid 30s. When Iprobably was starting to decline
a little bit, you know, I thinkmaybe not then maybe like late
(18:36):
30s, early 40s. But I feel Ioften will pause now. And I will
just say to myself, like, wow,my brain feels like it's kind of
running on all four. All fourcylinders right now. Yeah, it's
quite bizarre. I mean, whenbecause I can still remember the
contrast right? Now I'm sureit's probably not the same as
(18:58):
when I was in my 20s. Butcompared to what it was, I mean,
I felt adult all the time justkind of walking around. I didn't
go on anything else. So this wasreally truly the only change. I
was having panic attacks. Thosestopped immediately. I was able
to start sleeping.
(19:19):
I was couldn't sleep. I mean,that was probably the first
thing I was noticing. And itwasn't even just the night
sweats. Because sometimes Iwouldn't have those I just was
like wide awake laying. Why? Howcan I can't say I haven't slept,
I should definitely be able tosleep.
And just my overall mood, theimpending doom in fact, when I
first got on the HRT, I starteda very, very low dose because
(19:45):
I just I just was unsure and Ititrate it up over like six
months. And it was not an I likeI think I said in the last
episode, I think I was stillkind of paramedic. I think I was
so perimenopause was like rightat the end. So I still had
Some estrogen coming in mysystem. And when that I could
tell the shift of when thatended, because a lot of my
(20:07):
symptoms started coming back, Ijust did not have enough
estrogen in my system. And thenI had to go up to a higher dose.
And then I was like, within likea week or two, I was like, oh,
okay, so that was it. I was. Andnow I kind of can tell when
things aremaybe shifting or in those last
couple of titrations? I could, Icould say that. So, for me, it
(20:29):
was a huge fundamental shift.
And I did add other things forhealth, which I'm sure we'll
talk about shortly.
I really consider menopausebeing an all hands on deck
approach. I don't think there'sany like, Oh, I'm just gonna get
(20:49):
on HRT, or Oh, I'm just gonna goto therapy. Or I'm just going to
do this. I mean, when I thinkabout all hands on deck, I mean,
of any season in my life.
This is the most multifacetedSystem of Supports coming from
every direction. And I'm alwaysbrainstorming, and she's nodding
and like, yes, then I've everhad, even as a mom have a
(21:12):
newborn. I mean, it is reallylike, Where else can I find
support? What type of support?
How will that change? Andyeah, so as far as the meds go,
I do take some supplements tohelp with my sleep.
But I think before we get intolike any of that stuff, do you
(21:33):
want to talk aboutother supports that you've
employed? Like, I mean, I lovewhat you just said about like,
this being just like, highneeds, season of life. And I
think that there can be, it canfeel kind of contradictory,
because you're also coming intothis season of, like, the cares,
(21:55):
you a lot to certain things inlife, start shifting, like, your
capacity changes. And sosuddenly, you don't want to give
the energy or the care tocertain things anymore. And so
it almost seems like, oh, maybemy capacity could expand,
(22:16):
because I'm just not going toget involved in certain things
anymore, I'm going to, like, notshut on myself about how I
should be showing up in my lifeor my work or whatever. And, and
the reality is that that changedoesn't necessarily like free up
capacity. For other actions, itlike frees up capacity for
(22:41):
recovery.
Right, like it makes room sothat you can breathe so that
your whole system and your bodycan like lay low, and do the
like slowing and the quietingthat is like
very craved in a lot ofmidlife bodies, I think. And,
and so it's interesting, becauseI would say like, I'm not doing
(23:06):
as much as I used to do.
And I still feel tired. Andalso,
I am supporting myself in waysthat if I am judgey, and if I'm
in my like 31 year old self, I'mlike what you can't like keep up
(23:29):
with the laundry, you can't helpmore around the house, you can't
deep clean your house and have ajob and raise young kids. And
I'm like no, no Jedi Jedicertain I cannot do all of those
things. I need space in my lifewhere there is not pushing all
the time. And it's a privilegethat I have a little bit of that
(23:51):
space. And I'm able to do that.
So some of the supports for meare like having someone who
helps deep clean our houseand having
agreements with my partneraround housework, it is not all
on me and meals and things likethat. And doctor's appointments
(24:12):
for the kids and right like allthese things that I think the
invisible labor stuff that lotsof people have written and
talked about, that moms andwomen tend to do
in their workplaces and infamilies. And I just have like
given myself permission to notbe doing all the time so much
(24:34):
and to be like allowed to say Ihave a limit and like I don't
want to do that. I don't want topush myself to a place where I'm
then like totally worn out allof next week while I still am
going to need energy.
And that feels like a reallysupportive thing that has been
like hard won, and I'm stillworking on it. Like it's still
(24:56):
hard to have limits butWhat I have found is this
postmenopausal body of minehas limits and it, it doesn't
have as much ability to pushthrough them like I used to. And
so I kind of have to honor them,which is in the name of
celebrating things, is kind of anice thing in terms of learning
(25:17):
to, like, really respect andcare for my body. Because it
will, it will talk back to me ina way that is like,
uncomfortable. AndI'm glad to be in this kind of
relationship with my body now.
Yeah, it's so funny, becausejust hearing you talk, I was
(25:39):
thinking about Elizabeth andI've had many conversations
about something adjacent tothat. And that's just this idea
that like, the the stuff, theall hands on deck. And I guess
I'll speak for myself, becauseher situation may be a little
different. She started prettyyoung, but not that I wasn't
(25:59):
young, but super young. And so Ifeel like a lot because
both of us were younger. It wasshe was definitely caught off
guard, I was mostly like,because I've been gaslit, you
know, for so long about it was alittle caught off guard. And so
I was still in that really,hustle capitalist like, grind, I
(26:24):
was a teacher. And there was allit was like this perfect storm
of stress. And so when I got onHRT and was doing all these
things, and started adding thesedifferent approaches,
I got kicked right in the HSS.
Right after because I was doingit as a means to an end to get
back to that grind. And what Ifound was, it was not possible
(26:46):
anymore. And I didn't want itanymore. And it wasn't a means
to an end to get back to where Iwas before that there was this
grief around who I was before,even though it wasn't healthy.
It was like the way I wasoperating the way I showed up to
things the way I got stuff done.
And so there's this entirebottom up shift of how you
(27:11):
approach your life that is partof that all hands on deck. And
so I would caution anyone who'sjust like, oh, yeah, I've been
feeling a certain type of way. Ithink this is me, or they go
into this thinking that this,you know, because you'll see
influencers, you'll see peopleout there and everyone's journey
is unique. So maybe there arepeople out there I don't know,
(27:32):
like scaling buildings and doingall kinds of crazy stuff right
now in the midst of postmenopause. But for us, there was
a tremendous amount of grief.
And she especially I will say itwas robbed, essentially, quote
unquote, of like some years thatshe definitely thought she was
going to get with that type ofenergy. And so when we talk
(27:54):
about this, this grief aspect,as well, and I'll have her talk
about in just a second is a biga big thing that you're going to
have. Most people on not sayeverybody may have to like
tussle with. Because it's all ofthese things. I will say this
(28:14):
all hands on deck is just too.
It's just different. I don'twant to say to survive, because
I don't feel like I'm surviving.
I do feel in some areas, I amthriving. It's just all so
different. Yet so different. Iwas seeing like people who go
through menopause at 60 or 65,maybe aren't grieving, they
(28:35):
might be grieving before becausethey're having to wait so long.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, I think whenwe talk about the energy of the
before, times energy, a big partof that is hormones. It is that
monthly cycle, that boost ofenergy that happens after day
(28:57):
one of your new cycle, when youfour or five days later,
estrogen starts to spike, andthere is energetically this
shift. And that going away,can feel really destabilizing
and disorienting. Because it'slike, oh, it's such a drag to
have that ebb and flowthroughout your life. It can
(29:20):
feel like a tug of war. Like whydo I feel so bad for weeks at a
time and then I feel really,really good. And then I feel so
bad. But you also can kind oflean into that and start
noticing like, Oh, but I do feelreally good sometimes. And maybe
I can do more when I'm feelingreally good. And that up and
down is no longer available andand it's so it's like
(29:43):
disorienting. It's also onceonce the dust settles, it is one
of the best parts of goingthrough menopause is that I am
no longer being pushed around bymy hormones in this way. And so
Oh yes, I'm not getting thoseboosts. But I'm also not having
(30:03):
these big dips anymore. And soonce I think I adjusted to, oh,
my baseline is different. Andit's affecting lots of functions
in my body. But I can find thislike new normal and lean into it
a little bit that has provided alittle bit of like, I don't miss
(30:26):
having a period at all.
At all, sorry, if you'relistening, and this is like very
uncomfortable, and you don'tlike it, but whatever. It's a
part of life. But yeah, thatlike monthly cycle, which was
never on time on a certainclock. For me, it was always a
surprise, which is some of myneurodivergent.
(30:49):
I mean, seriously, in my 30s, Ithink I had a roommate that was
like, wow, you're like, stillsurprised by your period,
a trait of ADHD.
I was regular. And I was stilllike, confused. I feel like oh,
my gosh, the world is ending,like such a terrible day, such a
terrible job and world. And thenI would like start my period the
(31:09):
next day and be like, Oh, mygosh, why don't I know when I
feel that low that that's what'scoming. But I never ever figured
that out. In fact, also didn'tnotice that I was going through
menopause tracks. Take it allwith a grain of salt.
But yeah, I mean, there was alot of grief around being in my
(31:32):
early 40s, having two youngchildren and feeling like, Oh,
I'm now in this body that'sgoing to just run at a lower
baseline. And I still need to beable to kind of like grind here
and there and push through. Andthat felt
(31:53):
unfair. Yeah, I mean, I'mwatching some of my peers do
things with their kids as theirkids are in middle school, high
school, college, and I'm justlike, oh, okay, I'm just not
going to get that like midlifeexperience. As a parent. I'm
going to just be an older momright away. And
yeah, that was hard to reconcileit still is, but I, I feel like
(32:19):
it's been four years. And Idefinitely feel like I am on the
other side of like, the deepestpart of the pit. Like what is
happening to me, I feel like I'mmoving out of that. And so it
doesn't feel so bad anymore. SoI also want to say that, like,
you're going throughperimenopause, which can last up
to 10 years, sorry to tell you.
(32:41):
And then you go through themenopause transition, which is
just basically you stop having aperiod. And after a year, when
you're a certain age, after ayear, they'll say, Okay, now
you're postmenopausal.
And they say that because youcan still have a random period
really up until like, close totwo years sometimes. And
(33:03):
And once that stops happening,then it's almost like your body
goes through the final changesof like shifting into that next
stage of life. And systems startto really adjust to like, Oh,
we're not getting any moreboosts of hormones, what we, you
get what you get, and you don'tget upset.
And so that process for meanyway, took a few years to like
(33:28):
settle into and for like allsystems to figure out where go
is now. And I'm I'm finally atthat place where I'm starting to
have kind of a sense of normal,and it feels so much better,
like I am doing so much better.
And absolutely with the help ofsomatic therapy, with
(33:48):
medications with hormonereplacement, with a really
supportive partner. And my kidsgetting a little bit older, and
working for myself and havingflexibility in my day to day
like all these supports. Lindseywho helps clean our house like
these people who support mehaving my sisters on text
(34:13):
available anytime to just likespout off about things like
that. The connection points andthe people who are surrounding
me, I feel really wellsupported. And I feel like I'm
going to be okay, like, I'mgoing to be okay, I'm coming
back up for air. I actually ambuilding some friendships, which
(34:35):
to me, for me is a sign of howI'm doing is my social
engagement outside of workstuff. And so, I just want to
say if you're in perimenopauseor your early post menopause
hang in there. It does getbetter things do stabilize, and
it can feel really hard to holdon.
(35:00):
to that in the midst of it, andso whatever supports you can
bring online for yourself tohelp you hang on, do it.
Yeah, it was just the way here'swhat I was thinking. Okay, so I
think I'm in that final, becauseI noticed even some changes just
in the last like six months,even though nothing has changed.
(35:21):
Input wise, it's like, Hmm,something's happening. And I'm
so in tune with my body. But Iwas thinking about your point of
like, just talk about thesomatic therapy as if it I will
say that for me, too, I neededbecause I'm a woman, I'm the
oldest sister. And we were timelayers here, people,
(35:44):
I had to do a lot of inner childstuff, I had to do a lot of like
nervous system repair. And like,because taking up the kind of
space that you have to take upto kind of care for yourself in
the season, in a society thatone like, doesn't even want to
look in your direction too muchanymore. And then you know,
(36:04):
you're going up against otherpeople's like lenses, and things
like that is not for the faintof heart. And so having anyone
who is willing, like Elizabethsaid early in the podcast to
like, listen, or like toacknowledge that this is a
thing, and trigger warning oflike self harm. So if you want
to, like,pause, whatever the take, it's
(36:27):
gonna be very brief. But womenbetween 45 and 55, that's the
highest incidence of suicide.
And now that we have gonethrough it, we know, and can see
very clearly how that could be adistinct possibility. And if you
are struggling and having thosethoughts, that is, that's a 911,
(36:50):
that's you need to reach out tosomeone as soon as possible.
But all that to say is thattaking up this kind of space,
even now, it's still I stillhave to titrate that in, you
know, like one of my supports isbecause of the sleep thing,
because I have anxiety as wellis like, you know, she was
(37:12):
talking about her husband mine,one of my main is that I have to
get that early morning sunlightand go on a walk in the morning.
So that my circadian rhythm isset so that I can just take some
magnesium and titanium and go tosleep at night, do some like
breathing and meditation orwhatever. And so I want to go to
bed, I want to actually be in mybed. But you know, if it were
(37:36):
totally up to me, it would belike seven with the door open.
And the kids would come in,like, I'm grandpa, Joe and
Charlie in the chocolate.
That would be ideal for me,okay. But I usually negotiate
like, after I get the youngestdown. So like between eight and
830.
(37:58):
I come in and I you know, I'mhonestly by nine o'clock, right?
Because I get up really early.
And if I my sleep is jacked for,you know, for some reason, I
usually only will get it on thefront end of the night. So he
sleeps in a little bit longer, Igo to bed a little bit earlier,
and we can dip, you know, taketurns on, like the shift, so to
(38:18):
speak and a little bit differentway. So I share that too. Just
as another example of like,it's taken a lot of creativity,
it's taken a lot of like meleaning in listening to my body
when it was the talks aboutCymatics talking about like
really learning to like, leaninto what my body is telling me
(38:39):
and yeah, I'm neurodivergent aswell, eldest sister, you ignore
your whole life, it takes aminute to kind of get to know
its language. And yeah, and Ithink it's a really important
piece that I'm really grateful.
And I will say to if we're talkjust briefly about what's been
(39:03):
so good is I would never havepursued or I wouldn't have
thought to pursue that earlyenough in my life, which now I'm
so glad for my as a mother andnow I have all these years left,
you know, hopefully, that I haveaccess to this this other
therapeutic modality that Iwould never have known about I
only thought there was talktherapy and, and things like
(39:24):
that and, and and how healingthat's been for me
because of my all hands on deckmental approach to the
situation. I've opened myselfup, I'd never could meditate
before because, you know, I wasin a constant stress. I was just
constantly stressed out. Iactually had to do some nervous
system repair. Elizabeth helpswith some of that. I had a
(39:47):
therapist help with some of thatand in order to even be able to
sit still and do that for alittle bit. So I mean, for me,
that has been really great andand when when she was speaking
earlier, it'sYou are when you respond, I keep
talking to them, like, I don'tnormally do that, but whatever,
um, is that when you were sayingwe're not having the dips is
that I have an older child, he'sa grown up out in the world. And
(40:12):
then I have the two youngerelementary schoolers. And for
someone who's a neurodivergentwoman who has been really
oh man, behold, in a lot of waysto my cycle for a lot of years,
PMDD all the other stuff, to beable to raise some of my
(40:35):
children for part of their lifein a little more stabilized way
of being able to access and nothaving some of those
unpredictability that come withthe hormone ups and downs, I'm
not saying listen, I still loseit. And I still like have stuff,
because I'm still tired, like,you know how to repair. And you
know, what's happening, when Icame down even more, I had just
(40:59):
have access to things I neverhad access to, because of this
kind of crossroads of having tolike live life in a different
way. Totally. And I think the,the somatic healing piece has
been huge for me, too. And Iknow there are people out there
(41:20):
who say it's not for everyone.
And I really believe that thereis some type of somatic healing
modality or practice that ispossible for anyone, I really, I
don't think it's one size fitsall. But if it's yoga for you,
or if it's meditation, or ifit's, you know, working with a
(41:40):
somatic therapist who's trainedin some kind of somatic
modality, reconnecting to yourbody and getting to know it's
language, I do believe ispossible for everyone. And I
want to just encourage people tolike, be creative, and keep
trying to find ways to beconnected to yourself. And maybe
(42:02):
that's that, like, you used tobe a swimmer. And you get back
into swimming or things likethat, right that like or you
used to bake all the time, andyou haven't in a while, and you
get back into that and you'reusing your hands and your body
to create, like there's allthese ways that we can get
embodied, that I think arereally important. And then in
(42:22):
addition to that, I just want tosay like being in this world is
really traumatic for a lot ofpeople. And so working with a
trauma therapist, especially onewho is interested in what your
body has to say about whatyou're experiencing or have
experienced, can be a veryliberating process. And it can
(42:43):
mean that going throughperimenopause can look very
different. Like if I had hadthis training 15 years ago, and
this, you know, access to thissomatic therapist. I don't know
what perimenopause and earlymotherhood would have looked
like. I suspect it would havelooked really different. My
(43:06):
capacity for stress and fearwould have been really
different. And my ability torecover would have been
different. And soyes, our bodies can be
unpredictable. I think theymostly feel unpredictable,
because as Sarah mentionedearlier, no one's studied them.
And so everybody's just likewill assume mysterious and
unpredictable. But there's a lotabout our bodies that is
(43:30):
knowable. And I think thepursuit of knowing them, even to
the degree of understanding,menopause, and perimenopause,
even if you may never experienceit firsthand, I think is a part
of like blessing the communityof humans you're around and
(43:51):
knowing that ageing bodies isa thing and that people around
you are aging and you will beaging and it matters to
understand that that means yourlife is going to look different
and your needs are going to lookdifferent. And the people next
to you are going to need thingsdifferently and require things
(44:14):
differently of you and like wehave to be in this together. And
that's a big part of why I talkabout it so much even when I
have no idea who the people arethat are listening here or even
on Instagram or whatever or youknow dinner parties. I will say
I want to say one more thingabout what you just said too, is
that that embodiment party is isis no joke when it comes to the
(44:37):
quality of our lives. Andthat's with the caveat that like
you know, obviously likewhat Elizabeth said she believes
everyone has can have access tothat with all the things that
she said sort of wants to justmake as a complete when it gets
statement, I guess I don't know.
(44:57):
But I will say thatAs a parent, tapping into that
embodiment because your wholelife, we're just, we just think
of our law, I just thought ofmyself as a brain. And my body
was an inconvenience, it waslike things that would get in my
way. And now that I realize I ama body, like my kids are a body,
right? Like that has challengedme and encouraged me, to teach
(45:22):
them and to model to them.
There's all kinds of wisdom andthings to be to be known and to
be utilized for the quality oftheir own lives that I would
never have had because of thatprocess. And I just, I feel like
if nothing else came out ofbeing in menopause, that would
(45:44):
be enough for a lifetime. Oh,yeah. Yeah. Well, for
generations, right. Yeah.
We're changing things for thenext ones. Yeah. Okay, well,
good check. Yep. I will haveyou. Let me do it later. Bye.
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