June 28, 2024 • 44 mins
Sensory seeking and sensory avoiding and sensory meltdowns... oh my! One of the trickiest parts of neurodivergent living is the sensory experiences we endure. In this episode we're going to start the conversation about all things sensory input.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
Music.
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Welcome to the sleepy sisterspodcast. This is episode 15.
Woo.
Doing it so fun. I'm Elizabethbrink and I'm Sarah Durham, and
we are going to talk today aboutsensory stuff, but we have not
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prepared, and we are not goingto edit this per usual, so I
just like to always add thatdisclaimer of sorts.
Okay, so I have been likeitching to talk about this,
mostly because it is it runs ourlives, oh my gosh,
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from inwardly and externally, inour homes,
at every possible layer, it runsmy life. Yeah, I feel like I
could be like when I was a smallchild, like, just to start way
back, but I'll spare you,I I have been thinking a lot
about so I said, we don'tprepare, and we don't, but I
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have been thinking a lot aboutthis, and like reading stuff
about this idea of sensoryseeking, and then when you look
that up, A lot of stuff aboutsensory avoidance comes up, and
a big part of my motivation hasbeen a suspicion I have that one
of my kids is having sensorymeltdowns, which I thought were
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panic attacks. And I thinkthinking of them as panic
attacks was helpful for aminute, because it was at least
like giving me a framework ofsomething bigger is happening
here. This isn't just like atantrum or like I didn't I'm not
getting my way. It was biggerthan that. But the more of
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looked into it and then alsochecked in with a couple of
people who are in the mentalhealth field and who have more
experience with this stuff, themore I'm like, Oh, I think these
are sensory meltdowns. And so ithas really spurred me on to
understand more of the kind ofsensory profile, if you will, of
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each of my kids, which alwaysleads me back to
me right? And the world isright. It's just like, it's all
about me.
And so, yeah, so I so I wantedto talk about this also, because
it comes up a lot with myclients, for them, but also my
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caregiver clients, it comes up alot with stuff happening with
their kids, so I think there'slots to talk about in relation
to it, and it, maybe it'ssomething we talk about again
sometime in the future. Butdefinitely wanted to start the
conversation. So I wanted kindof define some terms, and I'm
not reading any definitions offof any official site. I am
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literally just making this upbased on
essence. This is the KathySnyder way,
which is our mom's name, andthis is the way she would do
things. She would just presentinformation as fact. And then we
would all be like, Oh, okay,which I tried to do two days
ago. I said something to one ofmy kids about how I didn't think
moths had like nerves where theycould feel, if you like, grab
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them by their wings. And Coreylooked at me and was like, Do
you know that?
No, I'm totally making it up.
Okay. Sounds convincing. Anyway.
Okay, so sensory seeking is whenan individual is hypo sensitive,
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so, like, less sensitive tosensory input, and so they may
tend to to seek out sensoryinput that is, you know, more
intense, so that they canactually, like, register it as
input. So some of the classicthings that I read up about are,
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you know, these might be kids oradults who, you know, hug really
tight orwalk really with really heavy
steps, which is interesting sidenote that, like in their body,
there's a lot of like, actionsthat are taken that result in a
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sensory boom, if you will.
That's me just making a word. Ididn't make up the word boom,
but using it in this context,sensory seeking might also be
talking really loudly, screamingand yelling all these different
things, if you think of sensoryinput, eating really spicy food,
what's some other ones, likelots of lights. They don't mind
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strobe lights, yeah, lotions andyeah, emotions.
And perfumes and yeah, like,just bring it on. I love it, and
they wear lots of it that couldbe sensory seeking. And there
could be a lot of reasons whysomebody wears a lot of perfume,
but for other people, there canbe hypersensitivity to sensory
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input, and so they might findthemselves trying to avoid
sensory input, and that couldlook like wearing earplugs, or
just like having responses toloud noises, wanting TV or radio
turned down a lot,definitely not wanting to be
next to someone on a plane whois wearing perfume
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assigned to people chew loudly.
Yes, misophonia.
Yeah, being able the opposite,being sensitive to the echolalia
is the avoidant, exactly, beingable to hear people chewing
exhibit a but then also, likeirritating,
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and you can be someone whoactually likes to engage in
echolalia, and then if someoneelse does it in the room is
completely annoyed by it'sirritating. So echolalia is
repeating. It's mimicking,sounds things like that.
And is common for autisticfolks, and you know, some other
types of neurodivergences. But,um, yeah, so they're these,
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these two kind of extremeprofiles around, like sensory
seeking, sensory avoidance, andthen kind of thinking of it more
like, I think of it a little bitmore of a spectrum. You know
that, like, you can be someonewho appears to be hypo
sensitive, so you appear to bein this is hard, like, if you
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don't know what the hyposensitive, so you can appear to,
like, not hear things. Butyou're actually kind of in a
shutdown, because you're sooverwhelmed from hearing things.
You've been hearing too much.
And so you kind of go into thisstate where people are like, you
never hear me talking, right? Sosome of this could look like the
inattentive ADHD profile oflike, oh, they space out. And
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it's like, sure they might bedistracted and daydreaming, or
they might be kind of in aprotective,
kind of glazed over mode,because they're overwhelmed by
some of the auditory input, thesensory input around them.
And so I think that'sinteresting about like, sensory
experiences that you can lookyou can look hypo sensitive
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because you're in shutdown andyou're actually hyper sensitive
and overwhelmed. Like, I thinkthat's really Yeah, and you can
also just bereally like someone who needs
the sensory input but thendoesn't know your threshold and
then ends up being like, I haveno tolerance for it. That, yes,
that's right there, gain of myexistence.
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Okay, so that lineof I like sensory input, I need
sensory input. I maybe need moreof it, and then I get
overwhelmed and I crash. Thatwould lead to what we would call
sensory meltdown. And on theother side of that, that would
be, I don't like a lot of it,and I've had to have a lot of it
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because of the environment I'min, and I crash and have a
meltdown. Andthe melt sensory meltdowns. If
you're not familiar with thisterm, please look it up and
like, find more official like otpeople talking about it, but it
it looks often like,how do I describe this in a way
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that's like, respectful,it looks like someone who is out
of their body,but their body is like thrashing
and like so energized that it'shard to imagine that they're not
there because they're filledwith rage. Sometimes, often
they're, it's very physical, andit's, it can look like a
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tantrum, yes, screaming andyelling, thrashing around,
trying to destroy things aroundthem, saying things that are
potentially nonsensical. They'renot always but
it is a sensory nightmare for aneurodivergent parent who is
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standing by during one of thesemeltdowns because it is an
assault on the senses. Is thatfair to say, Yes, that's very
fair to say. It is very Yes. Mynervous system goes into like,
what a five alarm, like,everything blaring, yes, yeah,
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yeah. Because, because in ittoo, there's a helplessness,
because their path.
The point it is, if they werehaving, like, if you have ever
had a panic attack,I would say even being around,
and I don't know if it's becauseI've only been around kids
who've had the sensory meltdown.
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I have had panic attacks. I'vestruggled with those. And I'm an
adult, so I wouldn't totallycompare, but there is a sense of
at some point when you're in it,you really don't even know what
to ask. Or there's a total likehelplessness as the person who
is witnessing it, becausethey're they're not in their
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body, so to speak, yeah, likeanything you do and say
escalates it Yes, yes, and andit doesn't make sense, and it's
like, you'll it will sound likea broken record at times, and it
will be something it's verydifficult to disrupt. In fact, I
would say it's almost impossibleto disrupt a meltdown. Yeah, in
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terms of, like, comparing thetwo, I would say,
honestly, like a panic attackhas been easier to
thwart, yeah. Now I will say,I Okay, you can disrupt a
meltdown, but it has to happenin the earliest Inklings. Okay,
same, same with panic attack.
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That's true when you first startgetting those feelings and
knowing enough of like we'regoing down that road
that like, I know one kid that Ihave that has them, the sensory
meltdowns there's I can stillreach her
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before it's actually in themeltdown, though, same here,
it's like.
So what I've been learning aboutmy kids, and I've been learning
this for years, and I've justbeen like putting language to it
in the last few weeks, is thatwhen we have new things going
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on, like summer camp, and thereare new environments, and
there's a lot of transitionsthat are new. So there's the
transition from school year tosummer, there's the transition
from their bed to the day, fromthe house to the car to the car
to the summer camp. There's somany transitions that are brand
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new in this context for them,and then they're in this
environment that's new to them.
And we have spent a lot of moneyon the summer camp that they
went to this year. They onlywent for two weeks, and it's at
this place that is, like, kindof magical, and like sensory
wise, like one of the mostdelightful environments I have
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been in that's labeled a summercamp, okay? Like it doesn't feel
like a summer camp. It feelsmore like a woo, woo school, you
know. And energetically feelsvery good. And still, it is a
new environment with new adults,new rules and new kids and
activities all day long, and ithas resulted in a lot of sensory
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overwhelm that I didn't reallyname as sensory overwhelm right
away, and so during the twoweeks that they have been at
this camp,almost every night, one of my
kids is having a sensorymeltdown before bed. And to say
that we are exhausted and maybeslightly traumatized from this
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would be an understatement. Andin addition to that, both of my
sweet little neurodivergentchildren are waking at 5am every
day, and have been almost sincethe time change. So we have this
perfect storm for overwhelm andfor meltdowns, and I'm just
doing a lot of like opencuriosity investigating around
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this idea of like, being sensoryseeking and and avoidant and
like, how can we help our kidsand ourselves learn to notice
the signs that we've had toomuch because the one kid that's
having The meltdowns is also mysensory seeker,
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and so the evening and afternoonis often filled with a lot of
like gymnastics activity in thehouse, like jumping and spinning
and wanting to be thrown aroundand like all this. And I've
noticed on these camp days thatif that happens in the evening
as a part of like our end of dayroutine, a meltdown happens, and
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that's when the light bulb wentoff. Like, oh, this is a sensory
meltdown. This kid wants therough play because they are a
sensory seeker, but theyactually don't have any capacity
left, and it's pushed them over.
The line, yeah. And I think thatat this point, this is something
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that oftenleads to, like, frustration
between partners, and, like,even your own internal
frustration, because when youhave a sensory seeker and you
think, Wow, I did a cool thing,I like sign them up for this
really awesome camp, and they'regonna love it, and where you do
some activity with them, whereyou know your seekers, like,
really just getting their cupfilled,
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that expectation that when theyget home, that their cup is
going to be filled and it's notgoing to end the day with this
type of a meltdown, is reallyhard on the system. And if you
have, like, a partner or oranother parent or whatever,
who's like, well, what, what,you know, this is like, I
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thought they'd be happy orwhatever, there's just a lot to
manage, because chances are,like, I know in my house, like,
we're both neurodivergent, andso we both have sensitive
nervous systems and so, youknow, I know I met many years
where I was like, Okay, this isgreat. She's going to be so
happy when she gets home, andthen they get home and it's
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like, should I have done this?
Should I do this? And the answerfor me has always been Yes, but
it's been in the caringimmediately after this, the only
way that I've been able to,like, make it
not a nightmare, yeah, like thedays when there has not been a
meltdown, have beendays when after camp and in the
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Evening I am like, holding theline hard about no activity like
we are watching TV, even playingvideo games, to some extent can
happen, but is still like, itonly can happen if we're playing
a game that we're doingtogether, and this child is
responding to me with connectionwhile we're playing like they
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really like If I play with them,and then there's lots of like,
we did it, and so we're stillconnected. We're sitting close,
and there's a lot of eye contactthat can happen. But like, for
the most part, it's like, okay,I'm talking in a quieter tone. I
am giving them foods that are,like, super simple, that I know
they will like because they'realso really hungry. After these
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hungry, I think they don't eatbecause they're so excited.
Yeah, yeah, that it's, I'm oftenlike, did you eat the lunch I
sent? Did you eat a snack? And Ijust never enough. Never enough.
They always need more becausethey're they're moving
constantly, because there'snovelty as well, which is super
exciting, yeah, like in duringthe school year, you know, with
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my two like, I have one who's asensory, probably more avoider,
and one who's a seeker, liketimes 10. And so either way,
they're they've met theirthreshold. So immediately, when
they get home, they go toseparate rooms. It's dark, it's
cool. They have a bevy ofsnacks, like crunchy things that
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I know they'll like. They get towatch TV, and we do that before.
There's no talking, there's noasking about their day. It's
literally like, go, go, go, putthem in a room, you know, and
separate them. That saved usthis year. We did that for the
first time during the schoolyear. And after that, it was
like they were different kids.
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They would come in and theywould just immediately be like,
is my room ready, you know? Andthen after so much time, you
know, it's not all night.
Obviously,they come out, and it's kind of
like re entry into the you'vegiven them, like this little pod
for the transition. Yes, yes,yes. Here's how we do this
transition, and like, so goodfor them to know how to do that
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for themselves. Yes. In fact, Iwill say that since summer
started and we've been doingthese other activities, I
remember they did something likethe first week or so or and when
they were done, Sam was like,where's our snack in a room, or
whatever? I'm like, oh, becausewe did a long thing. Just like,
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okay, so this is something we'regoing to carry over. Fine. I can
do that. We did VBS this lastweek, which, you know, is like
sensory like, like the singingand all this other stuff. And
they I had their headphones anda crunchy snack in the car. No
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talking on the way home, AC,full blast.
My husband picked them up oneday, and he did not have any of
those things despite myrecommendations. And
I, you know, it's like they comehome, different they come home,
you know, they've I've pickedmine up every day with a.
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Gatorade, oh, yeah, that willimmediately turn on each other.
You're in the car, and yoursystem is like, Oh my gosh.
Because if you like, for mine,if I bring the crunchy snack,
which they like, which isgetting that, it's even a
sensory seeking. It's like, forsome reason, it soothes, it
soothes them, right?
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They can hear each other eat,and if they can hear each other
eat, it's not this, doesn't ithits different, okay, I get it.
So the headphones with thecrunchy snack, yeah, yeah. He, I
love that you have figured thisout. Because this is like, I
mean, y'all, this is so muchscience
well, because if you look at itfrom just the standpoint of
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sensory seeker or sensoryavoider, I think you really miss
what that phrase used earlierthat sensory profile. Because I
think for the most part, whenyou have neurodivergent kids and
they're twice exceptional, theyare complex neurotypes. Right
to think that they're gonna hitone side or the other all the
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time is you're setting yourselfup for right? It's like, know
the signs of where they are onthat they do not know their
thresholds. Yeah. So okay, so Ialso been thinking about myself
and thinking about the adultkind of versions of this stuff,
because I am seeing it inmyself. I am seeing it in my
husband as well.
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And I was thinking back like Iwas a thumb sucker when I was
little. Actually, until I wasnine, I sucked my thumb, and I,
I know I'm very tactile, and Ihad Mr lamb, my stuffed animal
who I would like, caress with mypointer finger while I sucked my
thumb. So, like, very sensoryinput. And I was trying to think
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about, like, stories of like,you telling me I always wanted
to be picked up, and things likethat where I'm like, Okay, I
think I can get myself toconnect a little bit with that
sensory seeker in me, because Ido think that I am a sensory
seeker. Okay, Sarah, just madethe hand talking motion. I mean,
you got that's really helpful.
Yeah, yeah, in trouble fortalking all the time. I got in
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trouble all the time fortalking. And I talk all the
time, and I have a ton of words,and I just now was putting that
together as, like, sensoryseeking. I had not that when
you're tired and I'm the sameway, like, if I'm a little,
like, if I haven't had enoughinput, and like, I've not been
around a grown up all day, allof a sudden, like, my husband's
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like, you know, taking that in.
But when I'm with my sisters, Iwill typically just talk, talk,
talk, and then at some pointI'll be like, I'll just like,
shut down. Be like, I gotta goin the other I mean, I'm just
like, left like, I'll just like,hit a wall. Yeah. Okay, so
Kristen and I, my oldest anddear friend, went on a trip
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together in April, and we weretogether for three days for the
first time in like 17 years, andwe talked non stop pretty much
all day those three days, and ittook me, like, two weeks to
recover. That's a lot for Imean, for you, because you are
the most chatty person I know. Iknow I was surprised at how
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exhausted I was. And I thinkpart of it was that I came back
into I had work, I had an SEtraining, my kids were here,
right? It was there wasn'treally downtime to recover
fully, so it just took longer.
But I was surprised at how tiredI was. And I think when I start
re looking at scenarios likethat, and I can think back to
when my kids were really young.
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They're young still, but whenthey were really little, part of
why I thought I was having,like, a major mood disorder
mental breakdown was because Iwas having what I think now were
sensory meltdowns, but theversion of them in my body as an
adult who knows kind of, quote,unquote, how to behave,
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felt just kind of like atantrum, like I think I branded
them like tantrum me, but I'mnow realizing, like, some of the
triggers that I had identifiedfor myself Were things we've
talked about before gettingsweaty and then having a lot of
different competing noiseshappening at the same time. And
I would get to this place wheremy head would feel kind of
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swirly, and if someone asked mesomething, I would be really
snippy, very agitated. I wouldalso feel like I need to go sit
in front of a fan and drinksomething like frigid cold,
like, on the brink of beingfrozen, and
in order to, like, settle backdown. And I now am, like, with
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this, with this lens of, like,sensory seeking and sensory
meltdowns, I'm like, Oh, I thinkthose were sensory meltdowns. I.
Think I was completely floodedand overwhelmed with sensory
input. It was always at thedinner time of the day. I was
home with the kids and workingduring their naps and stressed
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and going through menopause, etcetera. But like, I do think
it's been helpful for me tothink back to those experiences
and realize like, oh, okay, asyou get older, you start to have
a little more self control,which has either been
disciplined into you or, youknow, right, like, or you don't
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and you like, have a lot oftrouble in school. Probably,
well, I think as you get oldertoo, you have a lot more control
over the input that you get. Andwhen you're a new mom, you don't
have any control over thatinput. If you go to a brand new
job, there's a transition periodwhere you don't know the norms,
you don't know where to get thequad, you don't know and I think
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that you know, as adults, it'slike, I think when we get good
at it is because we have scannedour environment. We've been in
it long enough to like, know thesafe spots, know how to like,
not take because I taught and,you know, I'm just like you. And
that was like a sensorynightmare. I mean, it's just
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like constant but over time, youknow, like I would, people would
look at me side, because I neverhad lunch with anybody, you
know, I was, I would lay undermy desk, you know, yeah, in the
dark. So I think that, like,when you're older and like, you
go into a transition ofsomething new, or whatever it's
like, yes, you can have copingskills and things like that,
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where we know like, but alsotoo, I think we get really good
at figuring out, like, where orwhere not we're going to take
some input in. Like, we get moreintrovert, but we don't go out.
Yeah, you know, I mean, it justhas me thinking about, like,
these transition times I'veidentified for the kids, like
the beginning of summer,beginning of school year, right
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after winter break, going backto school.
I've thought a lot about how tosupport them, and I have not
thought about my own sensoryexperience, in sensory meltdown
potential in those times,because yours is the opposite
yours, like, Well, yours is, Imean, I guess it's not the
opposite. I mean, like you haveto take care for yourself with
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them after they come home. But Ithink about that in summertime,
in the holidays, of like, beingwith my kids all day, I'm like,
how am I going to manage how?
What kind of time blocks do Ineed and like boundaries for
myself do I need so that I canget things done and not feel
like I'm coming out of my skin,especially when you have a
seeker who's like, look at man,like one, yeah, but I'm thinking
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too of like, when thosetransitions happen and there's a
lot of meltdowns, like, theselast couple of weeks have been
very destabilizing in our house.
Oh, you're saying caring foryourself and yeah, like being
prepared, not just prepared tosupport them, but prepared to
support me,knowing I'm going to have to
support them in a more intenseway that is also going to put me
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at risk for sensory meltdowns.
That's why the cave works sowell our little caves, because
at that point, that is my mentaltransition of like I am done
with my work day, at least fornow, and they're having their
quiet time, and I mentally shiftinto second shift. So if I were
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to, like, in that cave time orwhatever, not take any time to
mentally be like, Okay, you areno longer having this hat on,
you're gonna have to, like, dosome things, because not, it's
not a cure. It's not like, shedoesn't come out and is like,
still needs me, and there's,like, all these needs and stuff.
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It's like, I think that thoselittle rituals help
also with me, just to signal tomy brain, like it's, you're in
this well, yeah, because, like,if in that downtime I'm watching
reality TV shows,I will say they have a huge
impact on my mood, and I thinkthat there is a lot of sensory
input that happens when I'mwatching them, especially the
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ones that I like the most,because they fight on that
so I think just really beingaware of the fact that, like I
am, I am also in this body thathas sensory needs, but also,
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I think I am in a very likedefensive position Around my
sensory input all a lot of thetime, and trying to protect and
reduce and I wear earplugs alot. And I, you know, I ask
people to move away from me. Idon't like everybody to sit on
me all the time, which is athing that happens with my
sensory seeker. This child willbe on.
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On me all the time, and I'mlike, this is fine, except that
I'm hot or I'm overwhelmed, andI like, can you please move over
your leg is sticking to mine?
No. Thank you. So I just it'sbeen really helpful. I think
even though this has been areally hard couple of weeks, I'm
really getting a lot out ofthinking about this framework of
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the sensory profile and tryingto figure out how not to, like,
pigeonhole anyone into like,this is your sensory profile,
because I don't know, and itevolves.
But like, having it be a pieceof the puzzle when I'm thinking
about what is going on for me,or what is going on with one of
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the kids, then it's not justlike, Oh, they're tired. It's
like, there's this other elementof what kind of tired they are.
Yes, I also think too, I wasjust thinking about both of us,
and I think we are sensitive toa lot of different sensory
input,and we both also have younger
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children right now. And I wasjust thinking about,
do you find that, like sometimesyou're so on the defense and
you're protecting yourself somuch that you start getting blah
because you haven't done totallyyour own sensory seeking that,
like, feels good to you. You'relike, they're, they're taking
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all of the the input, like, alot of times, right? And yes,
smell lemons. And I want to,like, go put my face in the wind
and listen to, like, yes, youknow the way, okay, that's so
interesting. The way I it ismost obvious to me is that I
have not listened to music sinceI had kids. Oh, wow, when it
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feels so good. And I used tolisten to music all the time,
not all the time, but a lot.
Definitely, when I ever I was inthe car, like I had all kinds of
playlists, like, I lovedlistening to music, I loved
dancing, and since I have hadkids, it's like that sensory
threshold is just cut off rightthere. Yeah, I have to remind
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myself. I feel like I still havea capacity for that. But I think
because I've been protected forso long, I have to remind
myself, like, what would it belike if I just put a song on and
I will, like, put a song on andI'll dance, and I'm like, This
is life, like, music is life.
And I'm like, my brain's like,zapping, and I'm just like, this
(32:32):
is, this is like, what it'slike?
What? Why haven't not done thisin like, in that. Because I'm
just always like, How can Ireduce input? So I'm not a
troll, right? Yeah, and I try toreduce input so I'm not mean,
that's what I'm saying, a troll.
Like, I'm like, Yeah, trollunder the bridge. Like, not
like, the current like, troll,not the sweet, cute Poppy troll,
(32:54):
yeah, the fun one. No,yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. I think
a lot of my sensory meltdownsare I think about like when we
used to have family gatherings,and we were talking about this
in the last episode, when wetalked about anger and
entertaining and all of that.
(33:15):
It's like a lot of times when Ihad outbursts at family
gatherings, I am now suspectingthese were sensory meltdowns,
that it was too much, it wasoverwhelmed. Then something
happens or doesn't go right, therecipe didn't turn out quite
right, or someone isn't here ontime, or they came, but they
(33:35):
brought their own thing.
Whatever it is, it will be likethe straw that breaks the
camel's back, but it will be nobig deal, and I would feel
enraged. Well, yeah, becausethink about it too, like we're
also, like, managing the energyin the room. We're also like,
that fawning piece and thatlike, of like, making sure
everyone's having a good I mean,the layers, like, oh my god, the
(33:57):
layers, and if you have notclose family, the masking, I
mean, it's like the amount oursystem is going through. I'm
just surprised, like, when Ithink about that inside out to
that when she's at the controldon't give away anything. So,
yeah, what anxiety is at thecontrol panel I'm just like,
(34:20):
that is that feels like maybe abirthday party,
right? Like a Thursday well, andI think that it's helpful for me
to think of it in terms of,like, Okay, where can I notice
where a sensory meltdown mighthave been a factor in something
(34:41):
that happened with me so that Ican start to, like,
kind of rebrand some of thosestories for one, you know, like
being able to say, like, oh,okay, well, I was completely
overwhelmed. And yes, there'sall kinds of.
Stressed anger, and there'sright, all these layers of
(35:02):
things. And also my neurotypeand my nervous system are prone
to overwhelm and to that, youknow, switch getting flipped and
being into a place where I can'tcome back down until an outburst
has happened. And that piece ofit, I think, is the nervous
(35:24):
system. Piece around the systemwants to push me all the way up
so it can turn off, because itcannot come down any other way.
It doesn't feel like and that'swhat I'm seeing in one of my
kids right now, where likethey're sensing they need that,
and they're saying to me, I wantto have a meltdown, because now
we've named it, and we're like,talking about it more, and
(35:46):
they're saying, I can see themthrashing around trying to rev
themselves up. And I'll say, Areyou wanting to have a meltdown?
And they say, Yeah, I just wantto, like, get it out, because it
feels good after and I'm like,Oh no.
Totally energetically, like,resonate with that, yes. But
also I'm like, there's all thisexcess energy that's trapped. I
(36:09):
mean, you think about likethey're under like, new
authority, new rules. They don'tget to manage the input. And so
the price saying no inside alot, yeah. I mean, this kid said
to me, I don't want to go tocamp. And I said, I know you
don't. And I think what ishappening is, in the evening,
all your I don't want TOS arespilling out, yeah, and it's
(36:33):
okay, you need to get those out,but I would like us to try to
get them out in a way that isnot so stressful for your body,
because ultimately, when I'mwatching this happen, I'm just
seeing like nervous systemflooding. This is just not good
for you, and if we can find waysto avoid that and to get you to
(36:53):
sleep because you're overtiredand that there is an element of
it that is pent up energy thatneeds release, but there's also
a big part of it that is notgoing to be able to be released.
It they need to sleep. Yeah, youknow, I will say my daughter. I
say it's her, like, she doesn'tknow who that is, but like, so
(37:13):
she it. I'll say Nora, becauseI've said their names before. So
sheis a little older, and she has
will name, like, if she'sfeeling off, and I don't really
know, like, what the thecombination is, or whatever, but
she will say, I need to goswing.
(37:34):
And so she'll go out and she'llswing. Sometimes it's before her
day starts. Sometimes it's assoon as you know, she gets home
from doing something else.
Sometimes it's after, like, morein school, and she's been in the
cave, she'll like, I'm gonna goswing now. Unfortunately,
there's a lot of grasshoppersout there right now, so she
doesn't like jumpy things, sothat's been putting a corner
style. She's not happy aboutthat, but, um, but I do think,
like, I hear what you're saying,like, we're not necessarily
(37:59):
looking to avoidthe meltdown. We're looking to
soften and try to get them to,like, lean into other ways to
like, release what needs to bereleased. So we're not shutting
it down, like, oh, you need abath. It could be that day. They
(38:19):
could be about and sometimes shewill ask for a bath, but when
sometimes she asks for somethingelse, it's interesting, though,
because swinging is still input,but
it's different. And I also thinksometimes with the sensory
overload, it's not necessarilyabout no sensory it's about
(38:41):
shifting right time, the rightkind. So she's getting wind,
she's looking at the tree, she'sout looking at nature and green,
and then she's also doing theswing. And it's quiet, rhythmic,
yeah, yeah. I think, well, it'sjust like we talked about
before, when she was, like,going to bed, and I was like,
oh, we need to have quiet time.
And she needed, like a 32nddance party.
(39:03):
So I guess it's really about itis really about knowing that,
like when this kid in particularis overtired, they look to me
like they need more sensoryinput. They get more active, but
(39:23):
that actually engaging in thatand encouraging it might empty
them out to a place where theytip over that line into a
meltdown. And so finding thatright amount of and finding the
right timing last night, we didbedtime way earlier and
(39:44):
and so it's like all these, it'slike all this, like intricate
dance of like trying to figureout the right combination. And
the hard part is they both stillwoke at 5am even though they
fell asleep by seven and theywere more rested. So that was
great. But.
Like they're going to be tiredtonight. So it just, it's this
like perpetual thing that I'mlike, I want them to understand.
(40:07):
I don't want them to feel likethey are just badly behaved
monsters, which is, I think, howa lot of kids who act like this
are treated. It's certainly howI have felt about myself when I
have been in that kind of snippyI can't shake this bad mood
feeling,and I don't want them to feel
that way, and I want them toknow how to watch for the signs
(40:31):
and how to like do thesedifferent things for themselves.
Butin the meantime, slow process.
Man, it's a slow process in.
There's no like, one and done.
It's like, you we check in. Mykids are older too. Like, you
know, we check in to see it'sstill not sometimes, you know,
they they don't know. Sometimesit's past the point before they
(40:53):
even get to you, yeah, and youhave to we, I just want to
remind everyone that it's alsolike
a lot of times this is from goodstuff. This is from the good
stuff. And it's like, reallyhard for them to understand.
There's a lot of confusion.
There's a lot of confusion withother people watching, of like,
I don't understand. They shouldhave just had the time of their
(41:13):
life. They probably did. Why arethey being so ungrateful?
They're just damn, yeah, yeah.
And it's like, they probablydid. I know, you know my
daughter, she's all she's saidoften lately, like, I just cry
all the time, or whatever. I'mlike, Well, I said I cry more
than anybody in this house, youknow? I mean, I I'm crying all
(41:34):
the time, um, but like, she'slike, that's just like, how I
am. And I just, we have to haveto have these constant
conversations about like,there are reasons why this is
happening. Blah, blah, blah. AndI just feel like, as much as I
get something right, that I'mnot so I want to also normalize
like this is just, we're alljust trying to do the best we
(41:56):
can. This is like, hard, andit's, they're young and they're
developing, and like them,adults have a hard time checking
in with their bodies.
Yeah,it's not. I mean, we, do we? You
know, right now, like Melissahasn't listened to music since,
like, the only music I've beenlistening to lately is JoJo Siwa
(42:19):
and Taylor Swift because my kidshave declared these two, oh
yeah, the karaoke stuff thatcomes up, you could tell my word
y'all, yeah, nothing I want tobe listening to, but whatever.
Um, so yeah. Anyway, I this hasbeen really helpful for me
personally. So thank you forhaving this conversation
(42:43):
with me, we are going to be on alike short hiatus for a few
weeks, and then we'll be back. Idon't know what we'll talk about
when we come back, butsure, it'll be riveting. It sure
to be just as rambly aseverything else about
(43:04):
Anyway, okay, this gave me a lotto think about too. So thank
you. Yeah, me too. I mean,because we all have sensory
needs, and it's I think what I'mtaking away right now is what I
said about the like to you aboutwhat am I not getting that I
need to like for my own thepleasure, right? The pleasure,
(43:27):
yeah, that I will say, I do loveto swim. And when I go swim with
the kids and I go under thewater, I feel like a little kid
again. And sometimes I'll tellthem, because immediately when I
get in, it's like, can you throwthe ball? Can I swim to you? And
I'm like, I need to get warmedup, and I will just swim all
over that pool underwater bymyself for like, a good five
(43:48):
minutes before I get intoanything with them. Because I do
love that. Yeah, I love that.
Oh, well, I can't wait to dothat with you in a couple weeks.
I know. Okay, all right, loveyou too. I You.
Music.
(00:03):
Welcome to the sleepy sisterspodcast. This is episode 15.
Woo.
Doing it so fun. I'm Elizabethbrink and I'm Sarah Durham, and
we are going to talk today aboutsensory stuff, but we have not
(00:23):
prepared, and we are not goingto edit this per usual, so I
just like to always add thatdisclaimer of sorts.
Okay, so I have been likeitching to talk about this,
mostly because it is it runs ourlives, oh my gosh,
(00:45):
from inwardly and externally, inour homes,
at every possible layer, it runsmy life. Yeah, I feel like I
could be like when I was a smallchild, like, just to start way
back, but I'll spare you,I I have been thinking a lot
about so I said, we don'tprepare, and we don't, but I
(01:09):
have been thinking a lot aboutthis, and like reading stuff
about this idea of sensoryseeking, and then when you look
that up, A lot of stuff aboutsensory avoidance comes up, and
a big part of my motivation hasbeen a suspicion I have that one
of my kids is having sensorymeltdowns, which I thought were
(01:31):
panic attacks. And I thinkthinking of them as panic
attacks was helpful for aminute, because it was at least
like giving me a framework ofsomething bigger is happening
here. This isn't just like atantrum or like I didn't I'm not
getting my way. It was biggerthan that. But the more of
(01:55):
looked into it and then alsochecked in with a couple of
people who are in the mentalhealth field and who have more
experience with this stuff, themore I'm like, Oh, I think these
are sensory meltdowns. And so ithas really spurred me on to
understand more of the kind ofsensory profile, if you will, of
(02:16):
each of my kids, which alwaysleads me back to
me right? And the world isright. It's just like, it's all
about me.
And so, yeah, so I so I wantedto talk about this also, because
it comes up a lot with myclients, for them, but also my
(02:37):
caregiver clients, it comes up alot with stuff happening with
their kids, so I think there'slots to talk about in relation
to it, and it, maybe it'ssomething we talk about again
sometime in the future. Butdefinitely wanted to start the
conversation. So I wanted kindof define some terms, and I'm
not reading any definitions offof any official site. I am
(02:59):
literally just making this upbased on
essence. This is the KathySnyder way,
which is our mom's name, andthis is the way she would do
things. She would just presentinformation as fact. And then we
would all be like, Oh, okay,which I tried to do two days
ago. I said something to one ofmy kids about how I didn't think
moths had like nerves where theycould feel, if you like, grab
(03:23):
them by their wings. And Coreylooked at me and was like, Do
you know that?
No, I'm totally making it up.
Okay. Sounds convincing. Anyway.
Okay, so sensory seeking is whenan individual is hypo sensitive,
(03:45):
so, like, less sensitive tosensory input, and so they may
tend to to seek out sensoryinput that is, you know, more
intense, so that they canactually, like, register it as
input. So some of the classicthings that I read up about are,
(04:07):
you know, these might be kids oradults who, you know, hug really
tight orwalk really with really heavy
steps, which is interesting sidenote that, like in their body,
there's a lot of like, actionsthat are taken that result in a
(04:27):
sensory boom, if you will.
That's me just making a word. Ididn't make up the word boom,
but using it in this context,sensory seeking might also be
talking really loudly, screamingand yelling all these different
things, if you think of sensoryinput, eating really spicy food,
what's some other ones, likelots of lights. They don't mind
(04:54):
strobe lights, yeah, lotions andyeah, emotions.
And perfumes and yeah, like,just bring it on. I love it, and
they wear lots of it that couldbe sensory seeking. And there
could be a lot of reasons whysomebody wears a lot of perfume,
but for other people, there canbe hypersensitivity to sensory
(05:17):
input, and so they might findthemselves trying to avoid
sensory input, and that couldlook like wearing earplugs, or
just like having responses toloud noises, wanting TV or radio
turned down a lot,definitely not wanting to be
next to someone on a plane whois wearing perfume
(05:40):
assigned to people chew loudly.
Yes, misophonia.
Yeah, being able the opposite,being sensitive to the echolalia
is the avoidant, exactly, beingable to hear people chewing
exhibit a but then also, likeirritating,
(06:01):
and you can be someone whoactually likes to engage in
echolalia, and then if someoneelse does it in the room is
completely annoyed by it'sirritating. So echolalia is
repeating. It's mimicking,sounds things like that.
And is common for autisticfolks, and you know, some other
types of neurodivergences. But,um, yeah, so they're these,
(06:23):
these two kind of extremeprofiles around, like sensory
seeking, sensory avoidance, andthen kind of thinking of it more
like, I think of it a little bitmore of a spectrum. You know
that, like, you can be someonewho appears to be hypo
sensitive, so you appear to bein this is hard, like, if you
(06:47):
don't know what the hyposensitive, so you can appear to,
like, not hear things. Butyou're actually kind of in a
shutdown, because you're sooverwhelmed from hearing things.
You've been hearing too much.
And so you kind of go into thisstate where people are like, you
never hear me talking, right? Sosome of this could look like the
inattentive ADHD profile oflike, oh, they space out. And
(07:10):
it's like, sure they might bedistracted and daydreaming, or
they might be kind of in aprotective,
kind of glazed over mode,because they're overwhelmed by
some of the auditory input, thesensory input around them.
And so I think that'sinteresting about like, sensory
experiences that you can lookyou can look hypo sensitive
(07:32):
because you're in shutdown andyou're actually hyper sensitive
and overwhelmed. Like, I thinkthat's really Yeah, and you can
also just bereally like someone who needs
the sensory input but thendoesn't know your threshold and
then ends up being like, I haveno tolerance for it. That, yes,
that's right there, gain of myexistence.
(07:59):
Okay, so that lineof I like sensory input, I need
sensory input. I maybe need moreof it, and then I get
overwhelmed and I crash. Thatwould lead to what we would call
sensory meltdown. And on theother side of that, that would
be, I don't like a lot of it,and I've had to have a lot of it
(08:21):
because of the environment I'min, and I crash and have a
meltdown. Andthe melt sensory meltdowns. If
you're not familiar with thisterm, please look it up and
like, find more official like otpeople talking about it, but it
it looks often like,how do I describe this in a way
(08:46):
that's like, respectful,it looks like someone who is out
of their body,but their body is like thrashing
and like so energized that it'shard to imagine that they're not
there because they're filledwith rage. Sometimes, often
they're, it's very physical, andit's, it can look like a
(09:09):
tantrum, yes, screaming andyelling, thrashing around,
trying to destroy things aroundthem, saying things that are
potentially nonsensical. They'renot always but
it is a sensory nightmare for aneurodivergent parent who is
(09:32):
standing by during one of thesemeltdowns because it is an
assault on the senses. Is thatfair to say, Yes, that's very
fair to say. It is very Yes. Mynervous system goes into like,
what a five alarm, like,everything blaring, yes, yeah,
(09:53):
yeah. Because, because in ittoo, there's a helplessness,
because their path.
The point it is, if they werehaving, like, if you have ever
had a panic attack,I would say even being around,
and I don't know if it's becauseI've only been around kids
who've had the sensory meltdown.
(10:15):
I have had panic attacks. I'vestruggled with those. And I'm an
adult, so I wouldn't totallycompare, but there is a sense of
at some point when you're in it,you really don't even know what
to ask. Or there's a total likehelplessness as the person who
is witnessing it, becausethey're they're not in their
(10:37):
body, so to speak, yeah, likeanything you do and say
escalates it Yes, yes, and andit doesn't make sense, and it's
like, you'll it will sound likea broken record at times, and it
will be something it's verydifficult to disrupt. In fact, I
would say it's almost impossibleto disrupt a meltdown. Yeah, in
(10:57):
terms of, like, comparing thetwo, I would say,
honestly, like a panic attackhas been easier to
thwart, yeah. Now I will say,I Okay, you can disrupt a
meltdown, but it has to happenin the earliest Inklings. Okay,
same, same with panic attack.
(11:21):
That's true when you first startgetting those feelings and
knowing enough of like we'regoing down that road
that like, I know one kid that Ihave that has them, the sensory
meltdowns there's I can stillreach her
(11:41):
before it's actually in themeltdown, though, same here,
it's like.
So what I've been learning aboutmy kids, and I've been learning
this for years, and I've justbeen like putting language to it
in the last few weeks, is thatwhen we have new things going
(12:02):
on, like summer camp, and thereare new environments, and
there's a lot of transitionsthat are new. So there's the
transition from school year tosummer, there's the transition
from their bed to the day, fromthe house to the car to the car
to the summer camp. There's somany transitions that are brand
(12:24):
new in this context for them,and then they're in this
environment that's new to them.
And we have spent a lot of moneyon the summer camp that they
went to this year. They onlywent for two weeks, and it's at
this place that is, like, kindof magical, and like sensory
wise, like one of the mostdelightful environments I have
(12:45):
been in that's labeled a summercamp, okay? Like it doesn't feel
like a summer camp. It feelsmore like a woo, woo school, you
know. And energetically feelsvery good. And still, it is a
new environment with new adults,new rules and new kids and
activities all day long, and ithas resulted in a lot of sensory
(13:08):
overwhelm that I didn't reallyname as sensory overwhelm right
away, and so during the twoweeks that they have been at
this camp,almost every night, one of my
kids is having a sensorymeltdown before bed. And to say
that we are exhausted and maybeslightly traumatized from this
(13:35):
would be an understatement. Andin addition to that, both of my
sweet little neurodivergentchildren are waking at 5am every
day, and have been almost sincethe time change. So we have this
perfect storm for overwhelm andfor meltdowns, and I'm just
doing a lot of like opencuriosity investigating around
(13:58):
this idea of like, being sensoryseeking and and avoidant and
like, how can we help our kidsand ourselves learn to notice
the signs that we've had toomuch because the one kid that's
having The meltdowns is also mysensory seeker,
(14:21):
and so the evening and afternoonis often filled with a lot of
like gymnastics activity in thehouse, like jumping and spinning
and wanting to be thrown aroundand like all this. And I've
noticed on these camp days thatif that happens in the evening
as a part of like our end of dayroutine, a meltdown happens, and
(14:43):
that's when the light bulb wentoff. Like, oh, this is a sensory
meltdown. This kid wants therough play because they are a
sensory seeker, but theyactually don't have any capacity
left, and it's pushed them over.
The line, yeah. And I think thatat this point, this is something
(15:04):
that oftenleads to, like, frustration
between partners, and, like,even your own internal
frustration, because when youhave a sensory seeker and you
think, Wow, I did a cool thing,I like sign them up for this
really awesome camp, and they'regonna love it, and where you do
some activity with them, whereyou know your seekers, like,
really just getting their cupfilled,
(15:28):
that expectation that when theyget home, that their cup is
going to be filled and it's notgoing to end the day with this
type of a meltdown, is reallyhard on the system. And if you
have, like, a partner or oranother parent or whatever,
who's like, well, what, what,you know, this is like, I
(15:49):
thought they'd be happy orwhatever, there's just a lot to
manage, because chances are,like, I know in my house, like,
we're both neurodivergent, andso we both have sensitive
nervous systems and so, youknow, I know I met many years
where I was like, Okay, this isgreat. She's going to be so
happy when she gets home, andthen they get home and it's
(16:13):
like, should I have done this?
Should I do this? And the answerfor me has always been Yes, but
it's been in the caringimmediately after this, the only
way that I've been able to,like, make it
not a nightmare, yeah, like thedays when there has not been a
meltdown, have beendays when after camp and in the
(16:35):
Evening I am like, holding theline hard about no activity like
we are watching TV, even playingvideo games, to some extent can
happen, but is still like, itonly can happen if we're playing
a game that we're doingtogether, and this child is
responding to me with connectionwhile we're playing like they
(16:58):
really like If I play with them,and then there's lots of like,
we did it, and so we're stillconnected. We're sitting close,
and there's a lot of eye contactthat can happen. But like, for
the most part, it's like, okay,I'm talking in a quieter tone. I
am giving them foods that are,like, super simple, that I know
they will like because they'realso really hungry. After these
(17:24):
hungry, I think they don't eatbecause they're so excited.
Yeah, yeah, that it's, I'm oftenlike, did you eat the lunch I
sent? Did you eat a snack? And Ijust never enough. Never enough.
They always need more becausethey're they're moving
constantly, because there'snovelty as well, which is super
exciting, yeah, like in duringthe school year, you know, with
(17:47):
my two like, I have one who's asensory, probably more avoider,
and one who's a seeker, liketimes 10. And so either way,
they're they've met theirthreshold. So immediately, when
they get home, they go toseparate rooms. It's dark, it's
cool. They have a bevy ofsnacks, like crunchy things that
(18:10):
I know they'll like. They get towatch TV, and we do that before.
There's no talking, there's noasking about their day. It's
literally like, go, go, go, putthem in a room, you know, and
separate them. That saved usthis year. We did that for the
first time during the schoolyear. And after that, it was
like they were different kids.
(18:31):
They would come in and theywould just immediately be like,
is my room ready, you know? Andthen after so much time, you
know, it's not all night.
Obviously,they come out, and it's kind of
like re entry into the you'vegiven them, like this little pod
for the transition. Yes, yes,yes. Here's how we do this
transition, and like, so goodfor them to know how to do that
(18:55):
for themselves. Yes. In fact, Iwill say that since summer
started and we've been doingthese other activities, I
remember they did something likethe first week or so or and when
they were done, Sam was like,where's our snack in a room, or
whatever? I'm like, oh, becausewe did a long thing. Just like,
(19:16):
okay, so this is something we'regoing to carry over. Fine. I can
do that. We did VBS this lastweek, which, you know, is like
sensory like, like the singingand all this other stuff. And
they I had their headphones anda crunchy snack in the car. No
(19:39):
talking on the way home, AC,full blast.
My husband picked them up oneday, and he did not have any of
those things despite myrecommendations. And
I, you know, it's like they comehome, different they come home,
you know, they've I've pickedmine up every day with a.
(20:00):
Gatorade, oh, yeah, that willimmediately turn on each other.
You're in the car, and yoursystem is like, Oh my gosh.
Because if you like, for mine,if I bring the crunchy snack,
which they like, which isgetting that, it's even a
sensory seeking. It's like, forsome reason, it soothes, it
soothes them, right?
(20:20):
They can hear each other eat,and if they can hear each other
eat, it's not this, doesn't ithits different, okay, I get it.
So the headphones with thecrunchy snack, yeah, yeah. He, I
love that you have figured thisout. Because this is like, I
mean, y'all, this is so muchscience
well, because if you look at itfrom just the standpoint of
(20:44):
sensory seeker or sensoryavoider, I think you really miss
what that phrase used earlierthat sensory profile. Because I
think for the most part, whenyou have neurodivergent kids and
they're twice exceptional, theyare complex neurotypes. Right
to think that they're gonna hitone side or the other all the
(21:05):
time is you're setting yourselfup for right? It's like, know
the signs of where they are onthat they do not know their
thresholds. Yeah. So okay, so Ialso been thinking about myself
and thinking about the adultkind of versions of this stuff,
because I am seeing it inmyself. I am seeing it in my
husband as well.
(21:27):
And I was thinking back like Iwas a thumb sucker when I was
little. Actually, until I wasnine, I sucked my thumb, and I,
I know I'm very tactile, and Ihad Mr lamb, my stuffed animal
who I would like, caress with mypointer finger while I sucked my
thumb. So, like, very sensoryinput. And I was trying to think
(21:51):
about, like, stories of like,you telling me I always wanted
to be picked up, and things likethat where I'm like, Okay, I
think I can get myself toconnect a little bit with that
sensory seeker in me, because Ido think that I am a sensory
seeker. Okay, Sarah, just madethe hand talking motion. I mean,
you got that's really helpful.
Yeah, yeah, in trouble fortalking all the time. I got in
(22:14):
trouble all the time fortalking. And I talk all the
time, and I have a ton of words,and I just now was putting that
together as, like, sensoryseeking. I had not that when
you're tired and I'm the sameway, like, if I'm a little,
like, if I haven't had enoughinput, and like, I've not been
around a grown up all day, allof a sudden, like, my husband's
(22:34):
like, you know, taking that in.
But when I'm with my sisters, Iwill typically just talk, talk,
talk, and then at some pointI'll be like, I'll just like,
shut down. Be like, I gotta goin the other I mean, I'm just
like, left like, I'll just like,hit a wall. Yeah. Okay, so
Kristen and I, my oldest anddear friend, went on a trip
(22:58):
together in April, and we weretogether for three days for the
first time in like 17 years, andwe talked non stop pretty much
all day those three days, and ittook me, like, two weeks to
recover. That's a lot for Imean, for you, because you are
the most chatty person I know. Iknow I was surprised at how
(23:21):
exhausted I was. And I thinkpart of it was that I came back
into I had work, I had an SEtraining, my kids were here,
right? It was there wasn'treally downtime to recover
fully, so it just took longer.
But I was surprised at how tiredI was. And I think when I start
re looking at scenarios likethat, and I can think back to
when my kids were really young.
(23:45):
They're young still, but whenthey were really little, part of
why I thought I was having,like, a major mood disorder
mental breakdown was because Iwas having what I think now were
sensory meltdowns, but theversion of them in my body as an
adult who knows kind of, quote,unquote, how to behave,
(24:08):
felt just kind of like atantrum, like I think I branded
them like tantrum me, but I'mnow realizing, like, some of the
triggers that I had identifiedfor myself Were things we've
talked about before gettingsweaty and then having a lot of
different competing noiseshappening at the same time. And
I would get to this place wheremy head would feel kind of
(24:29):
swirly, and if someone asked mesomething, I would be really
snippy, very agitated. I wouldalso feel like I need to go sit
in front of a fan and drinksomething like frigid cold,
like, on the brink of beingfrozen, and
in order to, like, settle backdown. And I now am, like, with
(24:52):
this, with this lens of, like,sensory seeking and sensory
meltdowns, I'm like, Oh, I thinkthose were sensory meltdowns. I.
Think I was completely floodedand overwhelmed with sensory
input. It was always at thedinner time of the day. I was
home with the kids and workingduring their naps and stressed
(25:13):
and going through menopause, etcetera. But like, I do think
it's been helpful for me tothink back to those experiences
and realize like, oh, okay, asyou get older, you start to have
a little more self control,which has either been
disciplined into you or, youknow, right, like, or you don't
(25:34):
and you like, have a lot oftrouble in school. Probably,
well, I think as you get oldertoo, you have a lot more control
over the input that you get. Andwhen you're a new mom, you don't
have any control over thatinput. If you go to a brand new
job, there's a transition periodwhere you don't know the norms,
you don't know where to get thequad, you don't know and I think
(25:57):
that you know, as adults, it'slike, I think when we get good
at it is because we have scannedour environment. We've been in
it long enough to like, know thesafe spots, know how to like,
not take because I taught and,you know, I'm just like you. And
that was like a sensorynightmare. I mean, it's just
(26:17):
like constant but over time, youknow, like I would, people would
look at me side, because I neverhad lunch with anybody, you
know, I was, I would lay undermy desk, you know, yeah, in the
dark. So I think that, like,when you're older and like, you
go into a transition ofsomething new, or whatever it's
like, yes, you can have copingskills and things like that,
(26:41):
where we know like, but alsotoo, I think we get really good
at figuring out, like, where orwhere not we're going to take
some input in. Like, we get moreintrovert, but we don't go out.
Yeah, you know, I mean, it justhas me thinking about, like,
these transition times I'veidentified for the kids, like
the beginning of summer,beginning of school year, right
(27:03):
after winter break, going backto school.
I've thought a lot about how tosupport them, and I have not
thought about my own sensoryexperience, in sensory meltdown
potential in those times,because yours is the opposite
yours, like, Well, yours is, Imean, I guess it's not the
opposite. I mean, like you haveto take care for yourself with
(27:24):
them after they come home. But Ithink about that in summertime,
in the holidays, of like, beingwith my kids all day, I'm like,
how am I going to manage how?
What kind of time blocks do Ineed and like boundaries for
myself do I need so that I canget things done and not feel
like I'm coming out of my skin,especially when you have a
seeker who's like, look at man,like one, yeah, but I'm thinking
(27:48):
too of like, when thosetransitions happen and there's a
lot of meltdowns, like, theselast couple of weeks have been
very destabilizing in our house.
Oh, you're saying caring foryourself and yeah, like being
prepared, not just prepared tosupport them, but prepared to
support me,knowing I'm going to have to
support them in a more intenseway that is also going to put me
(28:09):
at risk for sensory meltdowns.
That's why the cave works sowell our little caves, because
at that point, that is my mentaltransition of like I am done
with my work day, at least fornow, and they're having their
quiet time, and I mentally shiftinto second shift. So if I were
(28:30):
to, like, in that cave time orwhatever, not take any time to
mentally be like, Okay, you areno longer having this hat on,
you're gonna have to, like, dosome things, because not, it's
not a cure. It's not like, shedoesn't come out and is like,
still needs me, and there's,like, all these needs and stuff.
(28:52):
It's like, I think that thoselittle rituals help
also with me, just to signal tomy brain, like it's, you're in
this well, yeah, because, like,if in that downtime I'm watching
reality TV shows,I will say they have a huge
impact on my mood, and I thinkthat there is a lot of sensory
input that happens when I'mwatching them, especially the
(29:15):
ones that I like the most,because they fight on that
so I think just really beingaware of the fact that, like I
am, I am also in this body thathas sensory needs, but also,
(29:36):
I think I am in a very likedefensive position Around my
sensory input all a lot of thetime, and trying to protect and
reduce and I wear earplugs alot. And I, you know, I ask
people to move away from me. Idon't like everybody to sit on
me all the time, which is athing that happens with my
sensory seeker. This child willbe on.
(30:00):
On me all the time, and I'mlike, this is fine, except that
I'm hot or I'm overwhelmed, andI like, can you please move over
your leg is sticking to mine?
No. Thank you. So I just it'sbeen really helpful. I think
even though this has been areally hard couple of weeks, I'm
really getting a lot out ofthinking about this framework of
(30:22):
the sensory profile and tryingto figure out how not to, like,
pigeonhole anyone into like,this is your sensory profile,
because I don't know, and itevolves.
But like, having it be a pieceof the puzzle when I'm thinking
about what is going on for me,or what is going on with one of
(30:45):
the kids, then it's not justlike, Oh, they're tired. It's
like, there's this other elementof what kind of tired they are.
Yes, I also think too, I wasjust thinking about both of us,
and I think we are sensitive toa lot of different sensory
input,and we both also have younger
(31:05):
children right now. And I wasjust thinking about,
do you find that, like sometimesyou're so on the defense and
you're protecting yourself somuch that you start getting blah
because you haven't done totallyyour own sensory seeking that,
like, feels good to you. You'relike, they're, they're taking
(31:28):
all of the the input, like, alot of times, right? And yes,
smell lemons. And I want to,like, go put my face in the wind
and listen to, like, yes, youknow the way, okay, that's so
interesting. The way I it ismost obvious to me is that I
have not listened to music sinceI had kids. Oh, wow, when it
(31:50):
feels so good. And I used tolisten to music all the time,
not all the time, but a lot.
Definitely, when I ever I was inthe car, like I had all kinds of
playlists, like, I lovedlistening to music, I loved
dancing, and since I have hadkids, it's like that sensory
threshold is just cut off rightthere. Yeah, I have to remind
(32:11):
myself. I feel like I still havea capacity for that. But I think
because I've been protected forso long, I have to remind
myself, like, what would it belike if I just put a song on and
I will, like, put a song on andI'll dance, and I'm like, This
is life, like, music is life.
And I'm like, my brain's like,zapping, and I'm just like, this
(32:32):
is, this is like, what it'slike?
What? Why haven't not done thisin like, in that. Because I'm
just always like, How can Ireduce input? So I'm not a
troll, right? Yeah, and I try toreduce input so I'm not mean,
that's what I'm saying, a troll.
Like, I'm like, Yeah, trollunder the bridge. Like, not
like, the current like, troll,not the sweet, cute Poppy troll,
(32:54):
yeah, the fun one. No,yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. I think
a lot of my sensory meltdownsare I think about like when we
used to have family gatherings,and we were talking about this
in the last episode, when wetalked about anger and
entertaining and all of that.
(33:15):
It's like a lot of times when Ihad outbursts at family
gatherings, I am now suspectingthese were sensory meltdowns,
that it was too much, it wasoverwhelmed. Then something
happens or doesn't go right, therecipe didn't turn out quite
right, or someone isn't here ontime, or they came, but they
(33:35):
brought their own thing.
Whatever it is, it will be likethe straw that breaks the
camel's back, but it will be nobig deal, and I would feel
enraged. Well, yeah, becausethink about it too, like we're
also, like, managing the energyin the room. We're also like,
that fawning piece and thatlike, of like, making sure
everyone's having a good I mean,the layers, like, oh my god, the
(33:57):
layers, and if you have notclose family, the masking, I
mean, it's like the amount oursystem is going through. I'm
just surprised, like, when Ithink about that inside out to
that when she's at the controldon't give away anything. So,
yeah, what anxiety is at thecontrol panel I'm just like,
(34:20):
that is that feels like maybe abirthday party,
right? Like a Thursday well, andI think that it's helpful for me
to think of it in terms of,like, Okay, where can I notice
where a sensory meltdown mighthave been a factor in something
(34:41):
that happened with me so that Ican start to, like,
kind of rebrand some of thosestories for one, you know, like
being able to say, like, oh,okay, well, I was completely
overwhelmed. And yes, there'sall kinds of.
Stressed anger, and there'sright, all these layers of
(35:02):
things. And also my neurotypeand my nervous system are prone
to overwhelm and to that, youknow, switch getting flipped and
being into a place where I can'tcome back down until an outburst
has happened. And that piece ofit, I think, is the nervous
(35:24):
system. Piece around the systemwants to push me all the way up
so it can turn off, because itcannot come down any other way.
It doesn't feel like and that'swhat I'm seeing in one of my
kids right now, where likethey're sensing they need that,
and they're saying to me, I wantto have a meltdown, because now
we've named it, and we're like,talking about it more, and
(35:46):
they're saying, I can see themthrashing around trying to rev
themselves up. And I'll say, Areyou wanting to have a meltdown?
And they say, Yeah, I just wantto, like, get it out, because it
feels good after and I'm like,Oh no.
Totally energetically, like,resonate with that, yes. But
also I'm like, there's all thisexcess energy that's trapped. I
(36:09):
mean, you think about likethey're under like, new
authority, new rules. They don'tget to manage the input. And so
the price saying no inside alot, yeah. I mean, this kid said
to me, I don't want to go tocamp. And I said, I know you
don't. And I think what ishappening is, in the evening,
all your I don't want TOS arespilling out, yeah, and it's
(36:33):
okay, you need to get those out,but I would like us to try to
get them out in a way that isnot so stressful for your body,
because ultimately, when I'mwatching this happen, I'm just
seeing like nervous systemflooding. This is just not good
for you, and if we can find waysto avoid that and to get you to
(36:53):
sleep because you're overtiredand that there is an element of
it that is pent up energy thatneeds release, but there's also
a big part of it that is notgoing to be able to be released.
It they need to sleep. Yeah, youknow, I will say my daughter. I
say it's her, like, she doesn'tknow who that is, but like, so
(37:13):
she it. I'll say Nora, becauseI've said their names before. So
sheis a little older, and she has
will name, like, if she'sfeeling off, and I don't really
know, like, what the thecombination is, or whatever, but
she will say, I need to goswing.
(37:34):
And so she'll go out and she'llswing. Sometimes it's before her
day starts. Sometimes it's assoon as you know, she gets home
from doing something else.
Sometimes it's after, like, morein school, and she's been in the
cave, she'll like, I'm gonna goswing now. Unfortunately,
there's a lot of grasshoppersout there right now, so she
doesn't like jumpy things, sothat's been putting a corner
style. She's not happy aboutthat, but, um, but I do think,
like, I hear what you're saying,like, we're not necessarily
(37:59):
looking to avoidthe meltdown. We're looking to
soften and try to get them to,like, lean into other ways to
like, release what needs to bereleased. So we're not shutting
it down, like, oh, you need abath. It could be that day. They
(38:19):
could be about and sometimes shewill ask for a bath, but when
sometimes she asks for somethingelse, it's interesting, though,
because swinging is still input,but
it's different. And I also thinksometimes with the sensory
overload, it's not necessarilyabout no sensory it's about
(38:41):
shifting right time, the rightkind. So she's getting wind,
she's looking at the tree, she'sout looking at nature and green,
and then she's also doing theswing. And it's quiet, rhythmic,
yeah, yeah. I think, well, it'sjust like we talked about
before, when she was, like,going to bed, and I was like,
oh, we need to have quiet time.
And she needed, like a 32nddance party.
(39:03):
So I guess it's really about itis really about knowing that,
like when this kid in particularis overtired, they look to me
like they need more sensoryinput. They get more active, but
(39:23):
that actually engaging in thatand encouraging it might empty
them out to a place where theytip over that line into a
meltdown. And so finding thatright amount of and finding the
right timing last night, we didbedtime way earlier and
(39:44):
and so it's like all these, it'slike all this, like intricate
dance of like trying to figureout the right combination. And
the hard part is they both stillwoke at 5am even though they
fell asleep by seven and theywere more rested. So that was
great. But.
Like they're going to be tiredtonight. So it just, it's this
like perpetual thing that I'mlike, I want them to understand.
(40:07):
I don't want them to feel likethey are just badly behaved
monsters, which is, I think, howa lot of kids who act like this
are treated. It's certainly howI have felt about myself when I
have been in that kind of snippyI can't shake this bad mood
feeling,and I don't want them to feel
that way, and I want them toknow how to watch for the signs
(40:31):
and how to like do thesedifferent things for themselves.
Butin the meantime, slow process.
Man, it's a slow process in.
There's no like, one and done.
It's like, you we check in. Mykids are older too. Like, you
know, we check in to see it'sstill not sometimes, you know,
they they don't know. Sometimesit's past the point before they
(40:53):
even get to you, yeah, and youhave to we, I just want to
remind everyone that it's alsolike
a lot of times this is from goodstuff. This is from the good
stuff. And it's like, reallyhard for them to understand.
There's a lot of confusion.
There's a lot of confusion withother people watching, of like,
I don't understand. They shouldhave just had the time of their
(41:13):
life. They probably did. Why arethey being so ungrateful?
They're just damn, yeah, yeah.
And it's like, they probablydid. I know, you know my
daughter, she's all she's saidoften lately, like, I just cry
all the time, or whatever. I'mlike, Well, I said I cry more
than anybody in this house, youknow? I mean, I I'm crying all
(41:34):
the time, um, but like, she'slike, that's just like, how I
am. And I just, we have to haveto have these constant
conversations about like,there are reasons why this is
happening. Blah, blah, blah. AndI just feel like, as much as I
get something right, that I'mnot so I want to also normalize
like this is just, we're alljust trying to do the best we
(41:56):
can. This is like, hard, andit's, they're young and they're
developing, and like them,adults have a hard time checking
in with their bodies.
Yeah,it's not. I mean, we, do we? You
know, right now, like Melissahasn't listened to music since,
like, the only music I've beenlistening to lately is JoJo Siwa
(42:19):
and Taylor Swift because my kidshave declared these two, oh
yeah, the karaoke stuff thatcomes up, you could tell my word
y'all, yeah, nothing I want tobe listening to, but whatever.
Um, so yeah. Anyway, I this hasbeen really helpful for me
personally. So thank you forhaving this conversation
(42:43):
with me, we are going to be on alike short hiatus for a few
weeks, and then we'll be back. Idon't know what we'll talk about
when we come back, butsure, it'll be riveting. It sure
to be just as rambly aseverything else about
(43:04):
Anyway, okay, this gave me a lotto think about too. So thank
you. Yeah, me too. I mean,because we all have sensory
needs, and it's I think what I'mtaking away right now is what I
said about the like to you aboutwhat am I not getting that I
need to like for my own thepleasure, right? The pleasure,
(43:27):
yeah, that I will say, I do loveto swim. And when I go swim with
the kids and I go under thewater, I feel like a little kid
again. And sometimes I'll tellthem, because immediately when I
get in, it's like, can you throwthe ball? Can I swim to you? And
I'm like, I need to get warmedup, and I will just swim all
over that pool underwater bymyself for like, a good five
(43:48):
minutes before I get intoanything with them. Because I do
love that. Yeah, I love that.
Oh, well, I can't wait to dothat with you in a couple weeks.
I know. Okay, all right, loveyou too. I You.
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