November 10, 2023 • 34 mins
Who has the energy to try to be perfect anymore? Do we still need to pretend we're striving for the best anyone has ever known? Let's discuss...
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
Find us online:
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:03):
Hello low. The Sleepy sisters are back. I really can't
believe people are listening tothis, but I downloads you all 50
Download sponsors that you.
I mean, I might have been likeeight of those but still. It's
(00:26):
fine. Yeah, Elizabeth brink,Sarah Durham are
sisters, and this is ourpodcast. We said we do not edit,
and we rarely prepare forwelcome. Okay, let's get into it
so that it doesn't go too long.
Sarah has a cold. So you mighthear a little cough, she's going
(00:49):
to try to keep it away. And wealso have a brother who has
offered to make the soundquality better on this thing,
but we'll see if like, we canreally get this thing going
because that's more siblinginvolvement and,
and also to like, I feel likethe way we started this podcast
and kind of like the topic we'regonna talk about today. I feel
(01:10):
like this podcast is like kindof our act of resistance against
like the curation of like oursociety. Yeah. And like, if
we're gonna show up, we know ourbandwidth cannot handle too much
prep. That's like, trying tomake it all smooth and post
production. I'll try not tobring an annoying sound every
(01:34):
week because with the noiseKrakow last week, and now my
voice and the call. And if Ilaugh too hard, I may start
coughing so Oh, I gotta get thatmute button. Ready?
Yeah, get your finger on themute button. I will. Okay, so
we're gonna talk aboutperfectionism, which is so
freaking exhausting. So ittotally fits the theme of making
(01:57):
a sleepy, but I am so glad thatwe're talking about this today,
because I am hosting somefriends tomorrow afternoon to
talk about somatic healing. AndI was being all cute and made it
like it's gonna be a high tea.
And then one of them asked meabout like, well, what, what is
high tea? I looked it up and doI need to wear a dress and I was
(02:18):
like, Oh, no.
My version of a high tea,sent another message and was
like, it's like casual high tea,which doesn't exist. And now I'm
like thinking about the menu.
And I'm like, gonna go to thestore later today. And I am so
(02:39):
prone to want to entertain inthese environments. Perfectly,
like, oh, it's fall, I shouldget pumpkin stuff. Or I should
bake a really pretty Bundt cake.
And I'm like, time for that. Idon't have time for that. It's
exhausting thinking about it.
And it's gonna be fine no matterwhat. But I had not been
(03:03):
thinking about perfectionismwhen I was making the grocery
list. So there's things on therelike dill, and I'm like, I'm not
getting Dell. Sorry, friends,you're not getting little sprigs
of anything. Um, okay, soperfectionism, you have some
(03:23):
thoughts about this. So takeus there. So I think it kind of
is always perfection.
Perfectionism, the word has,I've never resonated with that.
And I think, you know, when Iwas like, kind of thinking this
through, I've been doing somework around this. Because, you
know, typically, when I am in asituation where I'm having to
(03:47):
take a risk, or reach out or dothese different things, like
what gets in the way, is thisedge, that is often called
perfectionism, except for thefact that like, that's never
resonated with me. And so it'salways kind of been, like, it's
not it right? But then I'm stillstuck. You know, Elizabeth, and
(04:07):
I lost a brother, when we werereally little. So like, I've
never lived in a perfect world,but someone says, It's
perfectionism, I think, no, Idon't really ever think I'm
trying to be perfect atanything. And but the the
problem with it is that languageis really important for me in
order for me to be able to kindof make meaning of my world and
(04:28):
try to figure out like, how tomove past whatever that thing
is. And so I've been thinkingabout it even more this last
week, especially when we hadlike, siblings, like, Oh,
they're so critical on thepodcast and all that and like, I
didn't really care and like, youknow, there's different things
that come up, where, you know, Iwill overthink those things. I
(04:52):
may not necessarily care enoughto actually change them. But it
will like come up and itrequires energy and all that
stuff. So anyway, I was thinkingabout why perfectionism doesn't
like really resonate with me andwhat I could do about that. I'm
like, I need another ism. I needanother word to describe what it
(05:12):
is. And I looked at, I looked upthe word perfect. So I was like,
Maybe I have the word wrong.
Right? Oh, interesting. So thereare a few definitions. And one
of them is like, to get as goodas possible, right? You just
like, just as good as you canget it. Another one says, like
to, you know, do somethingwithout fault. And I'm like,
(05:36):
those are very different thingsto me.
As good as possible, or withoutfault. Yeah. Seems like two ends
of the Yeah, okay. Yeah. So, so,anyway, um, so I'm going to kind
of describe kind of like, what Ipicture symbolically, in my
(05:56):
mind. And we don't have to comeup with a new ism word today.
But I felt like it was importantbecause it got me to the place
of where I could kind of unlockabout moving forward in some of
these things that come up. Sowhen I think about
perfectionism, I think, okay, sohere's a circle, like, imagine a
circle. And everything outsideof that circle is perfectionism.
(06:19):
I'm not going there. It's spaceprevented, right? So I'm inside
the circle, and we'll all humansare inside that circle, right?
And what I feel like, where Iget stuck, is not in the
reaching towards perfectionism.
It's that very narrowed layeraround the circle of like, what
society says we should fit into.
(06:43):
And the way our culture hasmoved is that it's kind of
tricky, because it's notperfect. It's it, you know, our
systems and our culture arelike, oh, yeah, flaws are okay,
you know, not doing thingsperfectly are okay. But when you
really examine it, it's actuallynot attainable either. No,
(07:05):
humans live in that verynarrowed rim of what we call
like, you know, I guess like,what are what we call people to
kind of like, move towardsright. Does that make sense?
Wait,so we're having we're calling
people toward the edge of thecircle?
(07:27):
Society systems? I mean, I don'tthink you and I are, I think you
and I are trying to stay insidethe circle. We're trying to be
just our authentic selves,right? We're just trying to be
Oh, imperfect is outside of thecircle. It's unattainable. You
can't getout. I'm not trying to go there.
Right.
Okay. But there's like a magnet.
You know, what I'm picturing?
(07:48):
I'm picturing at Six Flags, thatride where you get in it, and
you're sitting up against a walland it spins and like, pushes
you against the wall? Yeah. Andthen you feel like vomiting. But
you know, I mean, like, that'swhat I'm picturing. Like, the
world kind of wants you to be ashard up against the edge of
like, trying to reach outside ofthe circle into perfectionism as
(08:11):
possible. Is that what you'resaying? Yeah, and part of why
it's so complicated is that, youknow, we don't like, you know,
the world has kind of moved awayfrom like, keep everything a
secret that's not, you know,that's not, you know, that may
present in a certain way orwhatever. It's like we have
moved more towards like beingable to be a little different
(08:33):
and like to have flaws, butthere's still very small lists
of acceptable flaws. If you havetoo many, or if you do it too
many days in a row, it becomes,you know, if you're too much of
an outlier. So it's, but like,being in that kind of rim of
the, you know, the outside ofthe circle or on the circle, but
(08:55):
like the rim of the circle,right? Because the flaws or
having like, you know, theillusion of like, you don't have
to be perfect, right? We thinkit's attainable, and it's not,
it's exhausting. We might have abounce up in there, like, every
(09:15):
10 years, or a few months orwhatever. But to kind of like,
be in there. No one lives insideof there. But because it
actually isn't perfect, andactually has some like little
glimmers of humanity. I stillfind myself bumping up trying to
get up to that. And it'sfreaking wiping me out. Because
(09:35):
really what the bottom line is,is that what I've figured out,
or what I've realized, is that,that the rim of that circle is
just a full time job ofcuration. It's just a full time
job of curating like whateverwaters I'm swimming in at the
time, or system on site at thetime, or who am around it's
like, what's their list of likeacceptable Yeah, right. And it
(09:58):
changes and would widen the roadtight. That's not a good match.
I don't spoons for that. And Ialso have had enough healing
where I don't I rebel againstthat, right. And so there's all
of this tension. I feel like ona regular basis of me trying to
(10:21):
say more in the circle.
Yeah, you're trying to, youknow, it's still picturing that
ride. And I'm like, Yeah, asit's like speeding up or slowing
down. It's like, oh, maybe Icould step more into the middle.
We went, we went to SilverDollar City, a month or so ago,
(10:46):
which is in Missouri, which Ilive in Missouri. Newsflash, but
anyway, there was this. Itwasn't a ride, but it was like
a, whatever. A thing there. Wereyou it was like a grandparents
house or something and you wentinto it, it was an experience,
I'll call it and you went intoit. And somehow they had
(11:09):
architected is that a word? Art,I don't care, made the room, in
a way. But I wanted to usearchitects because it felt, I
don't know if it because it wasvery structural, where it felt
like the room, they had built itin a way that it was like on a
slant. But also everything inthe room was on a slant,
(11:30):
including the art and there weremirrors on a slant. I can't
explain it other than I walkedin, and I immediately felt like
I was gonna vomit. Because I'mold. And I live, I could not
walk across the room to theexit. I was like, having the
hardest time. It's hard toexplain. But it really messed up
like my equilibrium, trying tolike see everything slanted and
(11:54):
then trying to walk straightacross this room to get out as
fast. It's like good. And I thethere was a wall and there were
handles on the walls, because Iguess lots of people have this
kind of reaction. My kidsthought it was hilarious. But so
I walked through this roomholding onto this wall feeling
like I was being pulled to oneside and was not going to be
(12:18):
able to stand up, right. And wegot to the other side of it. And
it was a hallway to like theexit. And like physically in my
body, it was the weirdestexperience. I mean, I hated it.
And the kids loved it. But itwas one of those trippy
experiences where like, myperception of the room affected
(12:38):
how my body could even navigatethe room. And it comes to mind
because I'm thinking about howif we're if we're leaning out,
and we're always like reachingtoward this edge of this, you
know, this, this growth edge oflike perfection is just beyond
the horizon, how that perceptionof what we're seeing. And what
(13:01):
we're trying to reach for hasthis effect on literally how we
can move in our lives, how wecan move through our lives. And
that if you've ever been in afunhouse like that, which was
not fun, but if you've ever beenin an experience like that, I
think it's a good illustrationfor like how it feels to be in
this world. Sometimes it justfeels like I don't know, if I
(13:22):
can make it from one side of theroom to the other. If I have to
do it this way, because it's allslanted in a way that doesn't
work for me, or feels like it'sgoing to take me 10 times more
effort to get to that place. Andto have to call it good to call
it done. than it looks like itis for other people. I mean,
(13:43):
Cory didn't have as hard a timegoing through that thing. He
still was like, you know, off tobut like, it just seemed to have
a very significant impact on me.
And I see that in real life. Isee other people, you know,
walking through the world,living their lives with
different kinds of hardships,different kinds of privileges.
And we all look like we'recoping differently. And I think
(14:04):
that like that call towardperfectionism is different
depending on who you are andwhere you come from, and you
know what was modeled for you.
But it's no less disorienting toanyone. Like it's disorienting
to everyone to feel like it'snot good enough. Or maybe it
(14:25):
could be better. All the time.
Yeah,I think I just I Yeah, and I
think I need a new word becauseI feel like perfectionism isn't
it. It's this. It's this other,this other expectation. That is
like, Okay, we've moved past thefact that like, anyone expects
(14:45):
anyone to be perfect. In fact,if you present too perfect no
one wants that either. Peoplemake up stuff like someone comes
in to perfect they're like, oh,I have to like put a flaw.
They're like, Oh my gosh, I'msuch an airhead or I'm so this
oops. If You look too good.
Yeah. Cuz it's super weird ifyou can stay up against that
wall up against the edge of thatcircle.
(15:06):
So it's like, you know, and Ithink, honestly, the system has
come alongside that as well, Ithink, you know, a lot of stuff
supports this idea that, yeah,like, it's okay. Like, you know,
we have a lot of languagearound. Sure you should take
care of yourself. And sureeveryone lets mental health
awareness, you know, things thatthe system doesn't necessarily
(15:29):
follow through with. But theyknow enough that the masses are
like, we can't do perfect, wecan't show up perfectly. So it's
kind of this like, illusion ofattainability, that feels still
viscerally like perfection, itwill still tank you it will
still like, and yes, some peoplecan get close to that. But I
(15:50):
think any human, you don't livein that space. But I also think
too, like. I think the hard partabout it is that it looks like
humanities in there. Becauseit's no less like, you have no,
(16:11):
I don't really feel like youhave a closer access to your
whole full humanity there thanyou would outside in the space
of perfection. Because even ifyou're really good at stuff, I
need a lot of resources. I justthink that like, it's still
this, it depends on the watersyou're in, like I've said, like,
it depends, like that bar isstill going to be changed and
(16:36):
kind of moved and narrowedaccording to like, whatever,
like, yeah,next Yeah. Like, oh, you in the
1% can be on this outer edge ofthis circle. And like, now
you're gonna rank and file amongyourselves, and we're gonna fail
less.
Right. And I think that like,you know, as far as for me,
(16:59):
like, what gets in the way isthe fact that this, this, this
outer edge is largely mastered,and I guess mastered or like,
people have more access to itaccording to like, how well they
can curate themselves and theirexperience and what they're
(17:20):
offering to the world. And thattakes a lot of energy and time,
that I personally don't haveaccess to, and don't necessarily
want access to I mean, you know,it's like, I have a specific,
you know, neuro type that makesthat more challenging. And also,
I've had a lot of healing andtrauma in my nervous system, to
(17:41):
where like, I want more accessto my authentic voice, I don't
necessarily want to curate onyour terms, Mr. or whoever. And
yeah, because like, if you getin touch with your authentic
voice, you often will start toabandon some of these things
that keep you striving forperfection. And I think, too,
you know, we have to nameprivilege, you know, that
(18:03):
there's this huge privilege andbeing able to try to attain
perfection in any one particularthing. In actually attaining,
you know, highest accolades inany one particular thing often
involves, you know, things otherthan elbow grease. And, and I
think, we don't talk about thatenough. And we focus so much on
(18:28):
the individual and laud youknow, them for, oh, they just
are so good at this thing. And,and then we all just kind of sit
and wonder, like, wow, they areso good at that one thing. I'm
not good like that at any thing.
I mean, I have so many clientswho feel this kind of shame
around hobbies. And I know I'dpost about this sometimes
(18:49):
online, but just this sense oflike, I'm not doing anything at
a proficient level, let alone ata perfection level. Right. But
like, what it has done this,like, over curated life, where
we're only seeing the peopledoing the things well, is that
everybody else who wants to trysomething new, it has, it's
(19:12):
almost like our ability to copewith the discomfort of being in
the learning stages, especiallythe early learning stages of
something new. It's unbearable,and it's you know, for some
people, it's just intolerable.
It's like I don't want to belearning I feel like this about
(19:33):
a lot of things. I don't want tobe learning how to crochet I
want to be like really good atcrochet and like making gifts
for people that they cherish.
Well, that's actually probablynever going to happen for me. I
mean, I don't know maybe in myold old age, I'll get there, but
it's not going to happen for mewith painting are some other
things that I've like, dabbledin because I don't have any
intentions of like, trying toaim for that kind of beyond
(19:54):
proficiency to some kind of likenovice or whatever. But I think
it just like gets in the way ofus being able to explore and
experiment thing with things.
And then our world and our lifeshrinks. Yes. Right. So then
we're just like, Okay, well, Iguess this is the only path is
(20:17):
just to sit here and wish that Icould be someone else. And, you
know, when I hear people come into the coaching space and say,
like, I just want to be able topick a thing and do a thing, I
just want to be really good atsomething. But there are things
they're really good at. But it'slike, they got good at
(20:38):
something. And now the, themarker has moved, now the
goalposts has moved and it's notsatisfying. It's like, well, I
want to be able to be good atthis other thing, because I see
people doing this really well. Isee people socializing or
whatever, and having greatparties or whatever, and I want
to be able to do that reallywell. Like the target is just
(20:59):
going to keep moving. Yeah,and I think also, too, exactly,
I think, you know, what addsfuel to the fire on that is
social media, because then youhave people not only showing up,
once they get to that like kindof like outcome, like ish, like,
part of life when they've takenthis, like, whatever they're
doing, and kind of like, beenbecome proficient or mastered
(21:22):
it, and they're presenting it,or they're doing it in sound
bites. So we don't really knowwhat the full life looks like.
Right? Right. So, you know,whereas, like, if you're walking
alongside people in their lives,and you're seeing that you're
around, right, you're around,like, where they're meeting
their edges in some of thesedifferent places. And it
definitely levels the playingfield. And I know, like with the
younger generations, like youngadults, too, you know, I hear
(21:45):
all the time just about howthere's all these parts of like,
kind of coming of age or, youknow, dating or being, you know,
growing friendships and likethose early adult years, where
it's, you know, people don'teven know how to access some of
(22:05):
these posts themselves, becausethey've curated so much of their
lives already, like online, thatthey they haven't, they're not
walking alongside people tolike, really be honest about who
they are, or, like, you know,their challenges and things like
that. And so that makes itreally hard to be vulnerable and
to like, you know, date and tobe in relationships with other
(22:28):
friends, things like that.
There's just this curation,this, like, you know, and
listen, I listen, that I'm nottalking about, you know, people
shouldn't like do their best andlike, if they want to really
passion about something theywant to like, present it, I just
think that there's so much focuson you know, cutting out the
(22:58):
parts that are unsavory, orreally hard and challenging,
that a lot of us are feelingreally isolated and really, you
know, tired and sleepy becauseliterally, you know, we're
trying to like, it's notattainable. And if it's not,
but I also think so here's,here's one little anecdote that
(23:20):
I do think can help. And I amsaying this with like, full
transparency. I've only beendoing this for three days.
Ready for it?
And I didn't mean anecdote Imet. What did I mean? antidote?
(23:41):
Right? No, anecdote is right.
No,it's not a story. It's a thing.
It's like an an antidote.
Oh, an antidote. Like, like,you're gonna like cure disease,
right? Yeah.
Yeah. antidote. Okay. Okay. Allright, we're clear. So I've been
doing this for three days. Butit's this appreciation practice.
It's gonna sound super cheesy.
And it may be it is. But Coryand I have been doing this in
(24:04):
the evening for the last threeevenings where we have sat down
and we have shared, we've takenturns sharing three things that
we have appreciated about ourday or three, like things during
the day we felt thankful for.
And then three things that weappreciate about the other
(24:27):
person. And in doing this, it'sreally because we take turns and
we each do three, it hasprovided this opportunity for us
to actually connect with eachother and have a sense of what's
good in the world in thismoment. This tiny little thing,
(24:48):
sorry, trying to laugh atSarah's like dying on camera,
and she's me. Oh, that's it. Ohmy gosh, y'all. I'm going to
pause the recording for just amoment while she catches her
breath. Hold on. Okay, so therewas probably no time there from
(25:13):
the pause. But Sarah is fine.
But she started laughing atherself. And that made it worse.
So anyway, this appreciationpractice what I'm noticing in
these three days, which is notinsignificant for somebody who
has a hard time forming newhabits, I'm just gonna say is
that I am fixated less on thenegative stuff like, even
(25:34):
throughout the day, likethinking about what am I going
to tell him that I appreciatedabout my day today and
yesterday, and today had beenlike, really busy days. And it
just like has been more on myradar. Like, I do think there's
something happening in my brain,by us just like having this
intentional space, to just say,like, here's some good things
(25:58):
that happened today. And so inthe appreciation for each other
piece, I gotta say, I reallyneed this in my life. And I
needed it like my whole life andhaving him pause for just a few
minutes. And think of like threethings he saw or witnessed or
three things about me he wasthinking about or noticed in
(26:20):
that day like specifics, becauseyou yesterday was like, naming
three specific things because Ilike made a yummy dinner and,
and then he was like, let mereframe this and talk about
three things I appreciate aboutyour character that, you know,
maybe these things that you didtoday, point to but also like,
let me talk about yourcharacter. And y'all I cried,
hearing somebody just say like,I really appreciate this about
(26:44):
who you are, and like really seeyou and be able to say that is
powerful. And, you know, it wasday three, and I had a hard time
coming up with three thingsabout him that I appreciated
that day. That was just a longpause for number three, because
we're not with each other allday long. But it was just really
lovely to sit and pause andactually think about one another
(27:09):
and about our lives. From apositive angle that didn't feel
gaslighting, it just felt like,can we notice the other stuff
too. And I'm very curious aboutif we can continue this practice
for an extended period of time,I am curious about the effect it
will have on both of us inrelation to perfectionism. And
(27:31):
how we perform and how we showup in the world. Because it's
really hard to be focused on allthat negative input that drives
you toward doing somethingperfect and being really, quote,
good. If you're starting to haveyour like eyes and ears out for
(27:53):
the things that are alreadygoing well and and are already
worth appreciating. And likeeach day, one of mine was like
the trees changing. And thenyesterday that I noticed the
trees are all kind of like deadnow. And I was like, I am so
glad that I appreciated thetrees the previous two days
(28:15):
because I love the autumn changeof colors in the trees, more
than most things outside. And Ijust anyway, I do think that
like, it's one part of likesetting down the commitment to
the grind. And I think thisother piece of like, can we be
(28:35):
more president with the counterworld of things that are going
on that are good, in a waythat's like building us up and
not just feeling you know, sillyand petty, you know, we don't
just want the opposite of theharsh competitive perfectionism
we want like, but what's goodhere and one of the things
(28:57):
Sorry, I'm talking for a longtime. This is my last comment.
One of the things that that I'velearned in somatic experiencing
is not just looking for, okay,what's the counter? Where's the
good, but like, if things arereally bad in your life, and
you're having a really hardseason or or stretch of yours
maybe looking for what's lessbad? Is there anything less
(29:22):
awful, just noticing thatthere's a difference between
some of these things helps yournervous system to shift in and
out of the heavy, hard, badstuff and the what maybe is a
little bit less so and I thinkthat helps us disrupt
perfectionism. It's a it's ahypothesis I have so we'll see.
(29:45):
We'll see how that plays out.
I'm going to unmute I was likeoh is there's going to be sound
coming out of my mouth. I'm notsure. Yeah, I like that. And I
like you know you and I alwaystalk about just fine Adding a
little bit more ease. I mean, Ithink when we're trying to go in
a direction that we want more ofor less of, I guess, depending
(30:12):
on what it is, just like yousaid, just kind of titrating in
or like a little bit more ease,kind of takes the focus off of
the big thing that we thinkwe're trying to attain. That was
bandanas. Like I went off ofcamera. I think I can laugh now
(30:35):
safely. As I feel like Elizabethreally wrap that up lovely. I
think that's a great place tostart. And I think I'm actually
going to do that too. I'm goingto try that. I do a lot of like,
I do some gratitude stuff in mymeditation. But it doesn't often
it's me. It's a one man show.
Yeah. Like, what am I gratefulfor? What am I grateful for
about myself? But I thinksometimes having like a partner
(30:58):
or a friend or someone that youcare about, like reflecting back
or saying things to you, andit's, let's, let's be real, it
feels good. And it's reallyit does. Oh, and you started
this like a month or two ago,you started in our sibling?
Yeah, thread. On Sundays. Sarahstarted sending out like, Okay,
(31:21):
what's one thing you're gratefulfor? And what's one thing that's
kicking your behind right now?
And all five of us are showingup in that space and sharing
those things? And I just thinkit's really helpful to be
balancing out the heart, thestriving, the whatever it is.
(31:42):
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Okay. But I have to, I have togo back and I have to talk about
that really quick, because Iknow you're gonna get off.
Oh, I do. I had to go. So okay.
Okay, so she's inhere, she's telling this stuff,
and she's looking at me,coughing,
and I look like I'm going todie. I thought about it. I was
(32:03):
like, what is happening? When Isay that has never happened. I'm
telling you that it's neverhappened. I have never had a
coughing egg like that in mylife. I was struggling. I didn't
know if I was gonna pee mypants. I didn't know if I was
gonna pass out on the floor. Iwas up was bananas. And of
course we're, you know, doingthis podcast. And she's like,
(32:26):
I'm just like, picturing her.
Like, if she passes out, or shefalls out of it hits her head.
What do I do? You know, it'sreally awful, is that I was
thinking, Oh, this has been sucha good episode. So far. I don't
(32:46):
want to lose. Oh, that's okay,too. Hello. But Hello, the
perfectionism versus humidity.
It's like, you're looking likeyou're okay, hacking up a lung,
maybe vomiting. I couldn't tellif the
laughing was making it worse,because it was such a weird
situation because I wasstruggling and it's muted. And
(33:11):
she's over there.
I'm trying to still talk. And Ifinally realized this might be
unedited, but I can pause therecording for a minute if things
go sell. So I'm glad that youall didn't sit here awkwardly
with me for that whole stretch.
Okay, thanks for hanging out.
This was a great start to thisconversation. And if anybody's
(33:31):
out there listening, and you trythis appreciation practice, or
you have thoughts aboutperfectionism, like please feel
feel free to reach out to textus because you probably know us
personally. Or you can send usan email or something. We'd love
to hear from any of ourlisteners. I did get a Marco
(33:52):
Polo from one and it was reallynice, is a good friend of mine.
So all right. I hope you guyshave a great rest of your day.
Love you. Bye bye. Love you
Hello low. The Sleepy sisters are back. I really can't
believe people are listening tothis, but I downloads you all 50
Download sponsors that you.
I mean, I might have been likeeight of those but still. It's
(00:26):
fine. Yeah, Elizabeth brink,Sarah Durham are
sisters, and this is ourpodcast. We said we do not edit,
and we rarely prepare forwelcome. Okay, let's get into it
so that it doesn't go too long.
Sarah has a cold. So you mighthear a little cough, she's going
(00:49):
to try to keep it away. And wealso have a brother who has
offered to make the soundquality better on this thing,
but we'll see if like, we canreally get this thing going
because that's more siblinginvolvement and,
and also to like, I feel likethe way we started this podcast
and kind of like the topic we'regonna talk about today. I feel
(01:10):
like this podcast is like kindof our act of resistance against
like the curation of like oursociety. Yeah. And like, if
we're gonna show up, we know ourbandwidth cannot handle too much
prep. That's like, trying tomake it all smooth and post
production. I'll try not tobring an annoying sound every
(01:34):
week because with the noiseKrakow last week, and now my
voice and the call. And if Ilaugh too hard, I may start
coughing so Oh, I gotta get thatmute button. Ready?
Yeah, get your finger on themute button. I will. Okay, so
we're gonna talk aboutperfectionism, which is so
freaking exhausting. So ittotally fits the theme of making
(01:57):
a sleepy, but I am so glad thatwe're talking about this today,
because I am hosting somefriends tomorrow afternoon to
talk about somatic healing. AndI was being all cute and made it
like it's gonna be a high tea.
And then one of them asked meabout like, well, what, what is
high tea? I looked it up and doI need to wear a dress and I was
(02:18):
like, Oh, no.
My version of a high tea,sent another message and was
like, it's like casual high tea,which doesn't exist. And now I'm
like thinking about the menu.
And I'm like, gonna go to thestore later today. And I am so
(02:39):
prone to want to entertain inthese environments. Perfectly,
like, oh, it's fall, I shouldget pumpkin stuff. Or I should
bake a really pretty Bundt cake.
And I'm like, time for that. Idon't have time for that. It's
exhausting thinking about it.
And it's gonna be fine no matterwhat. But I had not been
(03:03):
thinking about perfectionismwhen I was making the grocery
list. So there's things on therelike dill, and I'm like, I'm not
getting Dell. Sorry, friends,you're not getting little sprigs
of anything. Um, okay, soperfectionism, you have some
(03:23):
thoughts about this. So takeus there. So I think it kind of
is always perfection.
Perfectionism, the word has,I've never resonated with that.
And I think, you know, when Iwas like, kind of thinking this
through, I've been doing somework around this. Because, you
know, typically, when I am in asituation where I'm having to
(03:47):
take a risk, or reach out or dothese different things, like
what gets in the way, is thisedge, that is often called
perfectionism, except for thefact that like, that's never
resonated with me. And so it'salways kind of been, like, it's
not it right? But then I'm stillstuck. You know, Elizabeth, and
(04:07):
I lost a brother, when we werereally little. So like, I've
never lived in a perfect world,but someone says, It's
perfectionism, I think, no, Idon't really ever think I'm
trying to be perfect atanything. And but the the
problem with it is that languageis really important for me in
order for me to be able to kindof make meaning of my world and
(04:28):
try to figure out like, how tomove past whatever that thing
is. And so I've been thinkingabout it even more this last
week, especially when we hadlike, siblings, like, Oh,
they're so critical on thepodcast and all that and like, I
didn't really care and like, youknow, there's different things
that come up, where, you know, Iwill overthink those things. I
(04:52):
may not necessarily care enoughto actually change them. But it
will like come up and itrequires energy and all that
stuff. So anyway, I was thinkingabout why perfectionism doesn't
like really resonate with me andwhat I could do about that. I'm
like, I need another ism. I needanother word to describe what it
(05:12):
is. And I looked at, I looked upthe word perfect. So I was like,
Maybe I have the word wrong.
Right? Oh, interesting. So thereare a few definitions. And one
of them is like, to get as goodas possible, right? You just
like, just as good as you canget it. Another one says, like
to, you know, do somethingwithout fault. And I'm like,
(05:36):
those are very different thingsto me.
As good as possible, or withoutfault. Yeah. Seems like two ends
of the Yeah, okay. Yeah. So, so,anyway, um, so I'm going to kind
of describe kind of like, what Ipicture symbolically, in my
(05:56):
mind. And we don't have to comeup with a new ism word today.
But I felt like it was importantbecause it got me to the place
of where I could kind of unlockabout moving forward in some of
these things that come up. Sowhen I think about
perfectionism, I think, okay, sohere's a circle, like, imagine a
circle. And everything outsideof that circle is perfectionism.
(06:19):
I'm not going there. It's spaceprevented, right? So I'm inside
the circle, and we'll all humansare inside that circle, right?
And what I feel like, where Iget stuck, is not in the
reaching towards perfectionism.
It's that very narrowed layeraround the circle of like, what
society says we should fit into.
(06:43):
And the way our culture hasmoved is that it's kind of
tricky, because it's notperfect. It's it, you know, our
systems and our culture arelike, oh, yeah, flaws are okay,
you know, not doing thingsperfectly are okay. But when you
really examine it, it's actuallynot attainable either. No,
(07:05):
humans live in that verynarrowed rim of what we call
like, you know, I guess like,what are what we call people to
kind of like, move towardsright. Does that make sense?
Wait,so we're having we're calling
people toward the edge of thecircle?
(07:27):
Society systems? I mean, I don'tthink you and I are, I think you
and I are trying to stay insidethe circle. We're trying to be
just our authentic selves,right? We're just trying to be
Oh, imperfect is outside of thecircle. It's unattainable. You
can't getout. I'm not trying to go there.
Right.
Okay. But there's like a magnet.
You know, what I'm picturing?
(07:48):
I'm picturing at Six Flags, thatride where you get in it, and
you're sitting up against a walland it spins and like, pushes
you against the wall? Yeah. Andthen you feel like vomiting. But
you know, I mean, like, that'swhat I'm picturing. Like, the
world kind of wants you to be ashard up against the edge of
like, trying to reach outside ofthe circle into perfectionism as
(08:11):
possible. Is that what you'resaying? Yeah, and part of why
it's so complicated is that, youknow, we don't like, you know,
the world has kind of moved awayfrom like, keep everything a
secret that's not, you know,that's not, you know, that may
present in a certain way orwhatever. It's like we have
moved more towards like beingable to be a little different
(08:33):
and like to have flaws, butthere's still very small lists
of acceptable flaws. If you havetoo many, or if you do it too
many days in a row, it becomes,you know, if you're too much of
an outlier. So it's, but like,being in that kind of rim of
the, you know, the outside ofthe circle or on the circle, but
(08:55):
like the rim of the circle,right? Because the flaws or
having like, you know, theillusion of like, you don't have
to be perfect, right? We thinkit's attainable, and it's not,
it's exhausting. We might have abounce up in there, like, every
(09:15):
10 years, or a few months orwhatever. But to kind of like,
be in there. No one lives insideof there. But because it
actually isn't perfect, andactually has some like little
glimmers of humanity. I stillfind myself bumping up trying to
get up to that. And it'sfreaking wiping me out. Because
(09:35):
really what the bottom line is,is that what I've figured out,
or what I've realized, is that,that the rim of that circle is
just a full time job ofcuration. It's just a full time
job of curating like whateverwaters I'm swimming in at the
time, or system on site at thetime, or who am around it's
like, what's their list of likeacceptable Yeah, right. And it
(09:58):
changes and would widen the roadtight. That's not a good match.
I don't spoons for that. And Ialso have had enough healing
where I don't I rebel againstthat, right. And so there's all
of this tension. I feel like ona regular basis of me trying to
(10:21):
say more in the circle.
Yeah, you're trying to, youknow, it's still picturing that
ride. And I'm like, Yeah, asit's like speeding up or slowing
down. It's like, oh, maybe Icould step more into the middle.
We went, we went to SilverDollar City, a month or so ago,
(10:46):
which is in Missouri, which Ilive in Missouri. Newsflash, but
anyway, there was this. Itwasn't a ride, but it was like
a, whatever. A thing there. Wereyou it was like a grandparents
house or something and you wentinto it, it was an experience,
I'll call it and you went intoit. And somehow they had
(11:09):
architected is that a word? Art,I don't care, made the room, in
a way. But I wanted to usearchitects because it felt, I
don't know if it because it wasvery structural, where it felt
like the room, they had built itin a way that it was like on a
slant. But also everything inthe room was on a slant,
(11:30):
including the art and there weremirrors on a slant. I can't
explain it other than I walkedin, and I immediately felt like
I was gonna vomit. Because I'mold. And I live, I could not
walk across the room to theexit. I was like, having the
hardest time. It's hard toexplain. But it really messed up
like my equilibrium, trying tolike see everything slanted and
(11:54):
then trying to walk straightacross this room to get out as
fast. It's like good. And I thethere was a wall and there were
handles on the walls, because Iguess lots of people have this
kind of reaction. My kidsthought it was hilarious. But so
I walked through this roomholding onto this wall feeling
like I was being pulled to oneside and was not going to be
(12:18):
able to stand up, right. And wegot to the other side of it. And
it was a hallway to like theexit. And like physically in my
body, it was the weirdestexperience. I mean, I hated it.
And the kids loved it. But itwas one of those trippy
experiences where like, myperception of the room affected
(12:38):
how my body could even navigatethe room. And it comes to mind
because I'm thinking about howif we're if we're leaning out,
and we're always like reachingtoward this edge of this, you
know, this, this growth edge oflike perfection is just beyond
the horizon, how that perceptionof what we're seeing. And what
(13:01):
we're trying to reach for hasthis effect on literally how we
can move in our lives, how wecan move through our lives. And
that if you've ever been in afunhouse like that, which was
not fun, but if you've ever beenin an experience like that, I
think it's a good illustrationfor like how it feels to be in
this world. Sometimes it justfeels like I don't know, if I
(13:22):
can make it from one side of theroom to the other. If I have to
do it this way, because it's allslanted in a way that doesn't
work for me, or feels like it'sgoing to take me 10 times more
effort to get to that place. Andto have to call it good to call
it done. than it looks like itis for other people. I mean,
(13:43):
Cory didn't have as hard a timegoing through that thing. He
still was like, you know, off tobut like, it just seemed to have
a very significant impact on me.
And I see that in real life. Isee other people, you know,
walking through the world,living their lives with
different kinds of hardships,different kinds of privileges.
And we all look like we'recoping differently. And I think
(14:04):
that like that call towardperfectionism is different
depending on who you are andwhere you come from, and you
know what was modeled for you.
But it's no less disorienting toanyone. Like it's disorienting
to everyone to feel like it'snot good enough. Or maybe it
(14:25):
could be better. All the time.
Yeah,I think I just I Yeah, and I
think I need a new word becauseI feel like perfectionism isn't
it. It's this. It's this other,this other expectation. That is
like, Okay, we've moved past thefact that like, anyone expects
(14:45):
anyone to be perfect. In fact,if you present too perfect no
one wants that either. Peoplemake up stuff like someone comes
in to perfect they're like, oh,I have to like put a flaw.
They're like, Oh my gosh, I'msuch an airhead or I'm so this
oops. If You look too good.
Yeah. Cuz it's super weird ifyou can stay up against that
wall up against the edge of thatcircle.
(15:06):
So it's like, you know, and Ithink, honestly, the system has
come alongside that as well, Ithink, you know, a lot of stuff
supports this idea that, yeah,like, it's okay. Like, you know,
we have a lot of languagearound. Sure you should take
care of yourself. And sureeveryone lets mental health
awareness, you know, things thatthe system doesn't necessarily
(15:29):
follow through with. But theyknow enough that the masses are
like, we can't do perfect, wecan't show up perfectly. So it's
kind of this like, illusion ofattainability, that feels still
viscerally like perfection, itwill still tank you it will
still like, and yes, some peoplecan get close to that. But I
(15:50):
think any human, you don't livein that space. But I also think
too, like. I think the hard partabout it is that it looks like
humanities in there. Becauseit's no less like, you have no,
(16:11):
I don't really feel like youhave a closer access to your
whole full humanity there thanyou would outside in the space
of perfection. Because even ifyou're really good at stuff, I
need a lot of resources. I justthink that like, it's still
this, it depends on the watersyou're in, like I've said, like,
it depends, like that bar isstill going to be changed and
(16:36):
kind of moved and narrowedaccording to like, whatever,
like, yeah,next Yeah. Like, oh, you in the
1% can be on this outer edge ofthis circle. And like, now
you're gonna rank and file amongyourselves, and we're gonna fail
less.
Right. And I think that like,you know, as far as for me,
(16:59):
like, what gets in the way isthe fact that this, this, this
outer edge is largely mastered,and I guess mastered or like,
people have more access to itaccording to like, how well they
can curate themselves and theirexperience and what they're
(17:20):
offering to the world. And thattakes a lot of energy and time,
that I personally don't haveaccess to, and don't necessarily
want access to I mean, you know,it's like, I have a specific,
you know, neuro type that makesthat more challenging. And also,
I've had a lot of healing andtrauma in my nervous system, to
(17:41):
where like, I want more accessto my authentic voice, I don't
necessarily want to curate onyour terms, Mr. or whoever. And
yeah, because like, if you getin touch with your authentic
voice, you often will start toabandon some of these things
that keep you striving forperfection. And I think, too,
you know, we have to nameprivilege, you know, that
(18:03):
there's this huge privilege andbeing able to try to attain
perfection in any one particularthing. In actually attaining,
you know, highest accolades inany one particular thing often
involves, you know, things otherthan elbow grease. And, and I
think, we don't talk about thatenough. And we focus so much on
(18:28):
the individual and laud youknow, them for, oh, they just
are so good at this thing. And,and then we all just kind of sit
and wonder, like, wow, they areso good at that one thing. I'm
not good like that at any thing.
I mean, I have so many clientswho feel this kind of shame
around hobbies. And I know I'dpost about this sometimes
(18:49):
online, but just this sense oflike, I'm not doing anything at
a proficient level, let alone ata perfection level. Right. But
like, what it has done this,like, over curated life, where
we're only seeing the peopledoing the things well, is that
everybody else who wants to trysomething new, it has, it's
(19:12):
almost like our ability to copewith the discomfort of being in
the learning stages, especiallythe early learning stages of
something new. It's unbearable,and it's you know, for some
people, it's just intolerable.
It's like I don't want to belearning I feel like this about
(19:33):
a lot of things. I don't want tobe learning how to crochet I
want to be like really good atcrochet and like making gifts
for people that they cherish.
Well, that's actually probablynever going to happen for me. I
mean, I don't know maybe in myold old age, I'll get there, but
it's not going to happen for mewith painting are some other
things that I've like, dabbledin because I don't have any
intentions of like, trying toaim for that kind of beyond
(19:54):
proficiency to some kind of likenovice or whatever. But I think
it just like gets in the way ofus being able to explore and
experiment thing with things.
And then our world and our lifeshrinks. Yes. Right. So then
we're just like, Okay, well, Iguess this is the only path is
(20:17):
just to sit here and wish that Icould be someone else. And, you
know, when I hear people come into the coaching space and say,
like, I just want to be able topick a thing and do a thing, I
just want to be really good atsomething. But there are things
they're really good at. But it'slike, they got good at
(20:38):
something. And now the, themarker has moved, now the
goalposts has moved and it's notsatisfying. It's like, well, I
want to be able to be good atthis other thing, because I see
people doing this really well. Isee people socializing or
whatever, and having greatparties or whatever, and I want
to be able to do that reallywell. Like the target is just
(20:59):
going to keep moving. Yeah,and I think also, too, exactly,
I think, you know, what addsfuel to the fire on that is
social media, because then youhave people not only showing up,
once they get to that like kindof like outcome, like ish, like,
part of life when they've takenthis, like, whatever they're
doing, and kind of like, beenbecome proficient or mastered
(21:22):
it, and they're presenting it,or they're doing it in sound
bites. So we don't really knowwhat the full life looks like.
Right? Right. So, you know,whereas, like, if you're walking
alongside people in their lives,and you're seeing that you're
around, right, you're around,like, where they're meeting
their edges in some of thesedifferent places. And it
definitely levels the playingfield. And I know, like with the
younger generations, like youngadults, too, you know, I hear
(21:45):
all the time just about howthere's all these parts of like,
kind of coming of age or, youknow, dating or being, you know,
growing friendships and likethose early adult years, where
it's, you know, people don'teven know how to access some of
(22:05):
these posts themselves, becausethey've curated so much of their
lives already, like online, thatthey they haven't, they're not
walking alongside people tolike, really be honest about who
they are, or, like, you know,their challenges and things like
that. And so that makes itreally hard to be vulnerable and
to like, you know, date and tobe in relationships with other
(22:28):
friends, things like that.
There's just this curation,this, like, you know, and
listen, I listen, that I'm nottalking about, you know, people
shouldn't like do their best andlike, if they want to really
passion about something theywant to like, present it, I just
think that there's so much focuson you know, cutting out the
(22:58):
parts that are unsavory, orreally hard and challenging,
that a lot of us are feelingreally isolated and really, you
know, tired and sleepy becauseliterally, you know, we're
trying to like, it's notattainable. And if it's not,
but I also think so here's,here's one little anecdote that
(23:20):
I do think can help. And I amsaying this with like, full
transparency. I've only beendoing this for three days.
Ready for it?
And I didn't mean anecdote Imet. What did I mean? antidote?
(23:41):
Right? No, anecdote is right.
No,it's not a story. It's a thing.
It's like an an antidote.
Oh, an antidote. Like, like,you're gonna like cure disease,
right? Yeah.
Yeah. antidote. Okay. Okay. Allright, we're clear. So I've been
doing this for three days. Butit's this appreciation practice.
It's gonna sound super cheesy.
And it may be it is. But Coryand I have been doing this in
(24:04):
the evening for the last threeevenings where we have sat down
and we have shared, we've takenturns sharing three things that
we have appreciated about ourday or three, like things during
the day we felt thankful for.
And then three things that weappreciate about the other
(24:27):
person. And in doing this, it'sreally because we take turns and
we each do three, it hasprovided this opportunity for us
to actually connect with eachother and have a sense of what's
good in the world in thismoment. This tiny little thing,
(24:48):
sorry, trying to laugh atSarah's like dying on camera,
and she's me. Oh, that's it. Ohmy gosh, y'all. I'm going to
pause the recording for just amoment while she catches her
breath. Hold on. Okay, so therewas probably no time there from
(25:13):
the pause. But Sarah is fine.
But she started laughing atherself. And that made it worse.
So anyway, this appreciationpractice what I'm noticing in
these three days, which is notinsignificant for somebody who
has a hard time forming newhabits, I'm just gonna say is
that I am fixated less on thenegative stuff like, even
(25:34):
throughout the day, likethinking about what am I going
to tell him that I appreciatedabout my day today and
yesterday, and today had beenlike, really busy days. And it
just like has been more on myradar. Like, I do think there's
something happening in my brain,by us just like having this
intentional space, to just say,like, here's some good things
(25:58):
that happened today. And so inthe appreciation for each other
piece, I gotta say, I reallyneed this in my life. And I
needed it like my whole life andhaving him pause for just a few
minutes. And think of like threethings he saw or witnessed or
three things about me he wasthinking about or noticed in
(26:20):
that day like specifics, becauseyou yesterday was like, naming
three specific things because Ilike made a yummy dinner and,
and then he was like, let mereframe this and talk about
three things I appreciate aboutyour character that, you know,
maybe these things that you didtoday, point to but also like,
let me talk about yourcharacter. And y'all I cried,
hearing somebody just say like,I really appreciate this about
(26:44):
who you are, and like really seeyou and be able to say that is
powerful. And, you know, it wasday three, and I had a hard time
coming up with three thingsabout him that I appreciated
that day. That was just a longpause for number three, because
we're not with each other allday long. But it was just really
lovely to sit and pause andactually think about one another
(27:09):
and about our lives. From apositive angle that didn't feel
gaslighting, it just felt like,can we notice the other stuff
too. And I'm very curious aboutif we can continue this practice
for an extended period of time,I am curious about the effect it
will have on both of us inrelation to perfectionism. And
(27:31):
how we perform and how we showup in the world. Because it's
really hard to be focused on allthat negative input that drives
you toward doing somethingperfect and being really, quote,
good. If you're starting to haveyour like eyes and ears out for
(27:53):
the things that are alreadygoing well and and are already
worth appreciating. And likeeach day, one of mine was like
the trees changing. And thenyesterday that I noticed the
trees are all kind of like deadnow. And I was like, I am so
glad that I appreciated thetrees the previous two days
(28:15):
because I love the autumn changeof colors in the trees, more
than most things outside. And Ijust anyway, I do think that
like, it's one part of likesetting down the commitment to
the grind. And I think thisother piece of like, can we be
(28:35):
more president with the counterworld of things that are going
on that are good, in a waythat's like building us up and
not just feeling you know, sillyand petty, you know, we don't
just want the opposite of theharsh competitive perfectionism
we want like, but what's goodhere and one of the things
(28:57):
Sorry, I'm talking for a longtime. This is my last comment.
One of the things that that I'velearned in somatic experiencing
is not just looking for, okay,what's the counter? Where's the
good, but like, if things arereally bad in your life, and
you're having a really hardseason or or stretch of yours
maybe looking for what's lessbad? Is there anything less
(29:22):
awful, just noticing thatthere's a difference between
some of these things helps yournervous system to shift in and
out of the heavy, hard, badstuff and the what maybe is a
little bit less so and I thinkthat helps us disrupt
perfectionism. It's a it's ahypothesis I have so we'll see.
(29:45):
We'll see how that plays out.
I'm going to unmute I was likeoh is there's going to be sound
coming out of my mouth. I'm notsure. Yeah, I like that. And I
like you know you and I alwaystalk about just fine Adding a
little bit more ease. I mean, Ithink when we're trying to go in
a direction that we want more ofor less of, I guess, depending
(30:12):
on what it is, just like yousaid, just kind of titrating in
or like a little bit more ease,kind of takes the focus off of
the big thing that we thinkwe're trying to attain. That was
bandanas. Like I went off ofcamera. I think I can laugh now
(30:35):
safely. As I feel like Elizabethreally wrap that up lovely. I
think that's a great place tostart. And I think I'm actually
going to do that too. I'm goingto try that. I do a lot of like,
I do some gratitude stuff in mymeditation. But it doesn't often
it's me. It's a one man show.
Yeah. Like, what am I gratefulfor? What am I grateful for
about myself? But I thinksometimes having like a partner
(30:58):
or a friend or someone that youcare about, like reflecting back
or saying things to you, andit's, let's, let's be real, it
feels good. And it's reallyit does. Oh, and you started
this like a month or two ago,you started in our sibling?
Yeah, thread. On Sundays. Sarahstarted sending out like, Okay,
(31:21):
what's one thing you're gratefulfor? And what's one thing that's
kicking your behind right now?
And all five of us are showingup in that space and sharing
those things? And I just thinkit's really helpful to be
balancing out the heart, thestriving, the whatever it is.
(31:42):
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Okay. But I have to, I have togo back and I have to talk about
that really quick, because Iknow you're gonna get off.
Oh, I do. I had to go. So okay.
Okay, so she's inhere, she's telling this stuff,
and she's looking at me,coughing,
and I look like I'm going todie. I thought about it. I was
(32:03):
like, what is happening? When Isay that has never happened. I'm
telling you that it's neverhappened. I have never had a
coughing egg like that in mylife. I was struggling. I didn't
know if I was gonna pee mypants. I didn't know if I was
gonna pass out on the floor. Iwas up was bananas. And of
course we're, you know, doingthis podcast. And she's like,
(32:26):
I'm just like, picturing her.
Like, if she passes out, or shefalls out of it hits her head.
What do I do? You know, it'sreally awful, is that I was
thinking, Oh, this has been sucha good episode. So far. I don't
(32:46):
want to lose. Oh, that's okay,too. Hello. But Hello, the
perfectionism versus humidity.
It's like, you're looking likeyou're okay, hacking up a lung,
maybe vomiting. I couldn't tellif the
laughing was making it worse,because it was such a weird
situation because I wasstruggling and it's muted. And
(33:11):
she's over there.
I'm trying to still talk. And Ifinally realized this might be
unedited, but I can pause therecording for a minute if things
go sell. So I'm glad that youall didn't sit here awkwardly
with me for that whole stretch.
Okay, thanks for hanging out.
This was a great start to thisconversation. And if anybody's
(33:31):
out there listening, and you trythis appreciation practice, or
you have thoughts aboutperfectionism, like please feel
feel free to reach out to textus because you probably know us
personally. Or you can send usan email or something. We'd love
to hear from any of ourlisteners. I did get a Marco
(33:52):
Polo from one and it was reallynice, is a good friend of mine.
So all right. I hope you guyshave a great rest of your day.
Love you. Bye bye. Love you
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