April 4, 2023 • 43 mins
Hiring. A critical piece to scale your business. But how do you know it's time to grow your team? What role do you hire for first...or next? How do you make sure you don't hire a jerk that will torpedo your business to the ground? (dramatic? maybe...but maybe not!) What are the pros and cons of hiring a full-time employee vs. a subcontractor? If you hire someone that's not working out, how do you let them go?
Sandra Booker, the founder of Any Old Task, joins the show this week. She answers these questions and more to help you hire the right person for the right role at the right time. Having helped multiple entrepreneurs grow their businesses to multi-six figures and beyond, you're gonna want to write down all the insight she shares during this episode.
For starters, so many business owners assume they need help in a certain area (I need someone to help with social media! I have no time!) but when they analyze where their time is actually going, are shocked. Rather than needing help with social media, they may discover that their personal life (Kids! Aging parents!) is what is monopolizing their time...and they need a personal assistant instead.
Listen in and improve your hiring strategy with these proven tactics.
Connect with Sandra on her website, Instagram, and YouTube.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Geiger (00:02):
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset
podcast, where we dive intotactical strategies to grow your
business. And to make an impacton this world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast, let's do this.
(00:25):
Welcome to the small business, abig mindset podcast this week, I
am so excited you guys we haveSandra Booker, founder of any
old task and host of psychic coWelcome to the show. Sandra.
Unknown (00:39):
Thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited
to be here.
Erin Geiger (00:42):
Sandra, if you guys have not heard of her or worked
with her, she is a godsend to somany companies, so many
businesses, business ownersflocked to work with her, check
out her website, I'm going toput her you're out on the show
notes. So typically, I mentionedall that at the end. But she
really is just incredible. Youcan learn more about what about
what she does, but and she'lltell us more about what she
(01:04):
does. Oh, of course, Sandra, ohmy gosh, we have a mutual friend
in Laura Bell Gray, and she justI cannot sing the praises of
Sandra more than more than Ialready have a total fangirl.
Okay, so Sandra, will you giveus info about your your
background, how you get startedand how you came to be where you
(01:26):
are today?
Unknown (01:27):
Yeah, for sure. Coles Notes version, like in my past
actually holding down jobs, Iwas always kind of the go to
person. Everybody, like I endedup covering everybody's desk, I
ended up kind of like going toevery department and helping get
people caught up. So I wasalways kind of just the catch
(01:48):
all person. And fast forward alittle while I ended up in a
bookkeeping firm, not going tohave no bookkeeping training or
anything, I just picked it up,it was fine. So I ended up there
and helping him build hisbusiness. And during this time,
I'm still kind of livingpaycheck to paycheck with my
(02:09):
husband and our child. And whois very high, like highly
introverted, and social anxietywants lots of stuff. And they
came home from high school, um,wanting to go on a school trip
to Iceland. And I was justamazed that they wanted to leave
(02:32):
the house, let alone a country.
And they didn't know anybodythat was going just they've
decided Iceland was sounded fun.
And so I was like, I need tomake this happen. And so I was
just trying to come up with somemoney, started on fiber friend
told me about fiber. So Istarted offering transcription
(02:53):
services there that took off,people started asking me what
else I could do. Eventually, Idecided, a friend of mine said,
you know, you can make this intoa business. And I went, Oh, I
Okay. So I started the business.
And from there, I started as avirtual assistant and quickly
realized that that even thoughI'm very, very good at it, that
(03:15):
I that's not really where my,you know, my skill set really
shines. And it's more businessmanagement, really helping
people put all the piecestogether so that their their
business actually flows welland, and streamlined and, you
know, can get past all thosestuck points. So that's why I
(03:37):
moved into business managementand helping people figure out
their path to scaling theirbusiness.
Erin Geiger (03:46):
Yeah, and I have seen you in action, and it is
incredible to watch. I mean, youare always juggling a million
things for multiple businesses,and we're talking big successful
businesses that have a lot ofpressures and a lot of
expectations attached to them.
And you always handle everythingwith such ease, you know, it's
like anything that I've seenthrown your way or just like,
(04:08):
okay, you know, and you figureit out, and you move on, and
it's just like, what doesn'teven seem like a glitch to
anyone else, you know? So Imean, just kudos to you so, so
impressed with that, becausethat is not an easy task at all,
you know, to kind of support andmanage these, these big
businesses that are supersuccessful, so and in no small
(04:29):
part to you, you know, that'samazing. So you have so many
things like that we could talkabout on this podcast, because
so many skills in so many areas.
But let's kind of focus in onthe hiring aspect of managing
and growing a business becausewe haven't talked too much about
(04:52):
that on the show as of yet alittle bit. And I know that
there's some people in theaudience that are alike I'm a
I'm a, you know, a team of oneor maybe I've hired we're not
sure if I did it right, or Ineed to grow more. And so
they're kind of at this breakingpoint. And so could we kind of
focus on that and just kind oftalk about like, you know, first
(05:14):
of all, there's options when youwant to hire their
subcontractors or employeesthere, you know, and it's like
the pros and cons to both. Mostof the people most of the
listeners are probably going towant to start out with on the
subcontractor route. So we candive deeper into that. But maybe
you can even start the beginningof like, how do you know when
it's time to hire? And then youroptions? And then how do you go
(05:36):
about executing it?
Unknown (05:39):
Yeah, for sure, we can totally focus on that. It is a
big sticking point for peoplefiguring out like, when do I
hire? And how do I hire and whodo I hire and all of that stuff.
And I'd say that a lot of uswait too long to hire, a lot of
us wait till we're strugglingand overwhelmed. And on the
(06:02):
point of burnout, before weactually put any effort into
finding support, we do it whenwe're desperate, instead of
planning ahead, and part of thatis because a lot of a lot of
business owners that I see don'tactually have any times in their
business where they actually sitdown and analyze what's actually
(06:24):
happening, a lot of us get stuckin just like the day to day
trying to move stuff forward.
And not really taking a stepback and analyzing where we are
and figuring out what is thenext the best next step. So if I
could, you know, give anybody apiece of advice, it would be
like start building pauses intoyour business where you actually
stop. And, you know, take abreath and look at where you
(06:49):
are, and, and really analyzewhat you actually need in your
business. Anytime a businessowner is already, like, if
you're already working like fulltime hours, or whatever, like
the maximum number of hours thatyou want to be working, you
probably at that point alreadyneed somebody in your business
(07:09):
to help. Because as soon asyou're at that point, then there
you have no room to do anythingelse. So as soon as you're
getting close to that pointwhere like, yeah, I have my full
day is just like taken up.
Likely, you could easily hiresomebody to take on events, if
it's just to start with admintasks or whatnot. So I would
(07:30):
say, Yeah, that would be it islike, as soon as your full like
besties are coming up to fulltime hours, you really should
start looking at potentiallydelegating some stuff off your
plate. Yeah, that's
Erin Geiger (07:41):
so smart. Because I don't even think about that, you
know, you kind of like, almostwork yourself to a wall. And
then you're like, Okay, wait,now I need help, when you should
actually be planning for that,you know, like, working toward
that and having that as like,okay, that's going to be
something that's going tohappen, and I need to be aware
of that and intentional about itinstead of like, oh, shoot, I'm
(08:04):
behind. And I'm super stressedout. Now I need to figure out
how and okay, I'll just takethis person, like, they have a
pulse.
Unknown (08:14):
They might know what they're doing. And for anybody
that's thinking like, Yeah, butmoney. One to hire somebody to
start isn't necessarily going tobe I will get into the details,
but it's not really necessarilygoing to be that much to save
you some time. And also to somany people I know are spending
a huge amount of money onprofessional development on
(08:37):
buying courses and things toupgrade their own skills, take a
fraction of that, that you'reputting towards your own
professional development andjust hire somebody to help you.
There. If you're buying coursesor anything like that, then you
do have some funds that you canput towards help instead. And
that's another thing a lot ofpeople just get stuck in the I
(09:00):
have to do it, which means Ineed to know how to do it, which
means I need this course.
Instead of it has to be done.
What's the best avenue forgetting it done? And that's not
necessarily me. Like maybe it isyou but a lot of the time?
Probably not.
Erin Geiger (09:15):
Yeah, yeah. Cuz like you want to be able to
focus on your area of expertise,you know, and it's like, yes,
learn how to do what it isyou're about to outsource. So
that you can kind of guide thatperson and you know what you
want out of it. But then alsoyou want to like be able to grow
the part of the business thatreally requires you then your
(09:36):
knowledge and your expertise andI love that tip about kind of
reallocating funds because itdoes you're like I can't add on
another expense. I just can'tyou know, as most people are
gonna say, but it's like look atwhat you're already spending and
a lot of us Yeah, are buyingdigital courses to try to up
level. So So I love that somuch.
Unknown (09:56):
Yeah, I do want to just hit on something that you said
just said because This is athing a lot of people believe
that they have to learnsomething before they can pass
something off. And that is1,000%. untrue. In my mind, if
my toilet clogs or somethingbreaks in my bathroom, I don't
go and learn any plumbingskills, I just hire a plumber.
(10:19):
If I need help in my business,and I don't know how to do
something, I don't need to bethe one to learn it, and then
bring somebody in, I just needto know what I want out of it.
So if I, for instance, Facebookads is a big thing people want
help with, but they don't knowhow to run Facebook ads. But you
know what you want out of thoseFacebook ads, you know, the
(10:42):
numbers, you're looking for thenumber of leads that you'd like
to get, and the revenue thatyou'd like to generate. That's
all you need to be able toconfirm if somebody is doing a
good job, are they meeting thegoals for that role. So you
don't have to learn all aboutforecast to see to, to then
teach the person or make surethat you have the right person,
(11:02):
you just need to take your timewhen hiring and double check in.
You know, there's a lot ofthings you can do in hiring to
find the right person, but youdon't have to learn it all. So
sure,
Erin Geiger (11:12):
sure. And I you know, let me take a step back,
and I'm being an expert at it.
No, having a basic knowledge.
Yes. You know, you know, like abasic of like, okay, I've looked
at the Facebook ads tool, youknow, I kind of understand where
my money's going, you know, thatsort of a thing I think is
smart. Knowing it all being anexpert. 100% agree with you on
(11:35):
that. Because yeah, so you don'tneed to know I'm not a plumber,
I'm gonna hire someone I know.
But I never be sick of like,okay, I know, the pipe is
broken. And I know how you know,you don't, I'm saying like, I
have a basic knowledge of like,what the problem might be, and
they're gonna fix it for me,because I don't know how to do
it. And I'm not going to learn.
So yes, 100% agree on that. Solet's thank you for that. Thank
you for bringing that up andclarifying for sure. And then,
(11:58):
you know, a, there's also athought out there that you only
have to know a tiny amount ofsomething in order to teach
something, you know, and there'sdifferent, different camps on
that as well. But I really,really appreciate you bringing
it up. Because it's very, verygood point. Don't run yourself
ragged learning everything abouteverything before you hire,
please don't do that. So thankyou for clarifying. Okay, so
(12:21):
once they've decided, okay, Ineed to hire, then what what do
they do? What are their options?
And how, what do you what's youradvice there.
Unknown (12:30):
So I think the first thing is figuring out what you
need to hire for. And to do thatyou don't like a lot of people,
a lot of gurus will just say youneeded a min, you need a VA get
a VA or you need an integrator,get an integrator or whatever
the hot, new trendy thing tohave in your businesses, they're
gonna tell you that don't dothat, you need to actually
(12:52):
analyze your own business. So agreat way to do that is to just
analyze where your time isgoing. So I recommend, like just
actually just taking note ofwhere all of your time is going
every day. So every 15 minutes,you stop and you write down what
it is you're just doing. Ifyou're on a meeting for an hour,
then at the end of that meeting,you're not done that meeting
(13:14):
till you stop, and you writedown what it was you were just
doing for that last hour. And dothat for two weeks. And at the
end of the two weeks, you canstart grouping, you know, all
the like, work together. And youcan see, oh, like I actually
don't, because I've worked withbusinesses too, they don't have
a lot of admin, they've they'veimplemented a lot of automation,
they don't actually have a lotof admin to do what they really
(13:37):
are spending their time on insocial media. And, you know,
they, they're not great at it,and they spend way too much time
at it. And that was wherethey're going to get the biggest
bang for the buck. I had oneperson who after looking at
other time, because I recommenddoing it from the, you know,
from when you get up to when yougo to bed because you know, as
business owners, you're notturning it off, right? A lot of
(13:57):
us anyway. So one person I wasspeaking with at the end of her
two weeks, when she looked atit, it was actually like her
business didn't take up a lot oftime. But she had three kids,
three kids, I can't remembernow, she had a lot of kids. They
were all picky eater, she wasspending a ton of time just
shopping, meal planning,cooking. And then also spending
(14:21):
quality time with kids and thenalso cleaning and I was like,
Okay, well, where can we justlike maybe you need a personal
assistant or somebody just comein and do meal planning and
cooking for you or cleaning orwhatnot. So sometimes it's not
even in your business where thefirst best step is. So don't
listen to the gurus who just sayget a VA. Listen to your own
business and what you'reactually doing and see where you
(14:44):
actually need the help and don'ttry and just judge it by your
memory. Because your memory is aliar. All the things that you
don't like doing or you think isa slog to do. You're going to
think take up many, many, manyhours and all the things that
you While doing you're gonnathink takes up a fraction of the
time it probably does. So youreally need to actually write it
(15:05):
down in order to get a goodbook. Oh, that
Erin Geiger (15:08):
is so true. It's like you go through your day,
like, Oh, God took me forever toget through this one thing. And
then, you know, you think maybeit took you an hour or two, and
you look back and you're like,Oh, it's 20 minutes? What's
Yeah. You know, and then youthink you need help with your
like, that actually is like asmall fraction of your entire
day. Yeah, and you're right.
Maybe it's, maybe it'sprofessional to support your
(15:31):
business, and maybe it'spersonnel to support your life
so that you can do yourbusiness. That's such a great
way to look at it. For sure.
Okay, so then once they kind ofidentify that, what's the next
step, then? Are they at thepoint where they're looking at
like subcontractor or employeeor like, what, what's next?
Unknown (15:50):
Yeah, so then you're gonna want to decide whether
you're gonna get a subcontractoror employee. And there's pros
and cons for both. But ingeneral, like an employee, a lot
of times you can get, you know,at a decent hourly rate, but
then you also have to tend topay benefits and stuff. But if
(16:11):
you have like, full time work,like if you know, this is going
to be full time work. And youreally want somebody who's going
to be available when you wantthem to be available, then
definitely probably anemployee's what you're going to
be looking for, if it's not fulltime work. And if you're very
(16:32):
flexible, like you're, it's aslong as it gets done, it's fine,
then you might want to go forthe subcontractor route.
subcontractors. Not all but likeif you've got one that's
experienced, they might alreadyknow a lot of stuff. Employees,
depending on what you're hiringfor, there's probably going to
be electronic involved. So justkind of have to weigh the pros
and cons and determine what'sbest for you. Most people are
(16:55):
going to go with a subcontractorfor their their first hire.
Erin Geiger (16:59):
Yep, know for sure.
Thanks for those stipulations.
And so okay, they're like, Okay,I'm gonna hire a subcontractor.
Do they write out the jobrequirements first? Like, what,
what's kind of the first stepthere?
Unknown (17:11):
Yeah, so I typically encourage people to write out a
job description, so that they'reclear on what is entailed, like
what they're looking for,rather. And when you're writing
your job description, you wantto include, you know, what
outcome are you wanting thesepeople, this this person to
achieve in your business, andwhat their responsibilities are
(17:31):
going to be like, you know,don't just include I want
somebody who knows what Facebookads, you want to include. I want
somebody who knows aboutFacebook ads, too, because you
will be responsible forincreasing our, you know, lead
generation by X percent, orwhatever, like, just try and
like, make the outcome clear.
And then, once you have the jobdescription, then you're going
(17:53):
to start actually looking for,for the person. And a great way
to find somebody is throughreferrals. So ask your other
business owners for referrals.
Depending on what role you'rehiring for, there might be
associations that you cancontact, like, if you're looking
(18:14):
for a virtual assistant, there'slike a bunch of different VA
associations, like one forCanada, one international and
one for the US that you canusually find a VA through them.
There's, there's all sorts ofall sorts of places you can,
it's easy to find asubcontractor, the mistake most
people make, is they hire thefirst person they talk to, or
the first person that somebodysays, Oh, this, this is who you
(18:35):
should go with. And that isreally, the mistake that I see
most people making is just onlytalking to one person.
Erin Geiger (18:44):
Yeah, is there kind of like a sweet spot, you know,
talk to this many people andlike, and then follow up
question is like, how do youknow, you know, which, which is
the right person to go at? Likejust your gut? Or like, what
what do you look at?
Unknown (18:59):
Oh, it's really it is really hard to know. There's
ways to reduce the likelihood ofgetting a lemon. And there's
ways of making sure that it is asuccessful relationship once you
do hire somebody, because thoseare the two times like, that's
really all that happens. It'seither you pick the right
person, and they're amazing, oryou pick the right person, but
(19:22):
it doesn't work out for somereason, or you pick the wrong
person. That's, that's those arethe three options, right? So I
would say, first, you're goingto want to try and like get as
many as you can. I like to lookat, you know, at least 10 to 15
Different people in the area, asmany as I can get, and that seem
reasonable and just kind of gothrough. I don't talk to all
(19:44):
those people. But I do like totry and talk to at least three
to five. So after I go through abunch and I kind of do my own
research on people. Then I'llkind of pare it down to the top
three or five that I want tospeak to and then I have
meetings them. And, you know,depending on what you're hiring
for, you might, you might dodifferent things. But some
(20:07):
things that I like to do is justlike, one, make sure that I can
see examples of their work. Itry it, I hope that they kind of
lead the call. But I also tryand prepare with questions. And
some of my questions will bedesigned to kind of test their
their knowledge a little bit.
So, for instance, if I'm lookingfor, for a virtual assistant, I
(20:29):
might ask them, Well, I used toask them, it doesn't make sense
to ask them anymore. But I usedto ask them how to add preview
text to a ConvertKit. Email,like, Do you know how to add
preview text to ConvertKit?
Email? And the reason I askedthat is because when I when I
used to ask it, there wasn't aneasy way to do it. But there was
(20:50):
an easy way to find out. And ifthey could at least find out the
answer. That was that wassomething right. But I ask them
questions that kind of testtheir knowledge a little bit.
See if you can talk to some oftheir past clients, if anybody
ever refers you to somebody,don't just take the referral,
like ask that person questionslike, you know, did you work
(21:11):
with them? What were there?
Like? What did you like aboutworking with them? What did you
didn't you like about workingwith them? Just take the time?
And then if you're still notsure, you're still worried. It's
always a good a good idea to dosome sort of like paid trial. So
you can always say like, can wejust work on one small project
and see how it goes? Got
Erin Geiger (21:33):
it? Okay, no, super smart. And so when you think you
found your person? What steps doyou take to figure out pay?
Right? So you're like, how muchdo I pay this person? I have no
idea. So what how? How do peopleresearch, you know, within their
own industry and the tasks thatthey need to be done to figure
(21:55):
that out.
Unknown (21:57):
So again, like, you don't, you don't get to set the
pay of your hiring asubcontractor, you just get to
accept that, you know, set whatyou will accept, or what your
budget is. So when you'retalking, like if you're talking
to three to five people, andyou're getting proposals from
those people, you know, you cansee if, what the averages, but
(22:20):
you can also like, you don'thave to talk to everybody, you
could put feelers out to twodifferent places. And, you know,
say, Hey, I'm looking for X, Y,and Z is there, do you have an
idea of like, what that mightcost? Or you can do that work?
Usually, I rely on just lookingat the proposals that I get and
see what it is. And thenwhatever my budget is, because
(22:42):
yeah, especially in the onlinespace, like you can get a wide
variety of ranges. So me, but itall does, it all will come down
to what your your actual budgetis like hiring a virtual
assistant, you know, dependingon where you're hiring from, or
you know what you're hiring themto do, you could be spending 25
(23:04):
to $50 an hour. And some everyonce in a while. I see more than
that, but I wouldn't. I don'tknow. It's kind of bad to have
to be special. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (23:17):
That's it. Cool.
Okay, so you've hired your firstperson. And then I think the
last thing to do, you know,because then we go into, like
maintaining employees that youknow, them as a subcontractor
and working with them, but justfocusing on the hiring part. So,
do you have any kind of tips foroffering the role to a person
and then onboarding them whenthey first start?
Unknown (23:44):
Yeah. So again, because there's so contractors, it's
like, a lot of us have, a lot ofus have the idea that it's kind
of like hiring employees until Ihave to make them an offer, but
you're not making them an offer.
They're making you an offer, andyou're deciding whether you're
going to accept it or not. Andthen they just have, you know,
first chance at refusal, prettymuch. So I would say like, once
(24:04):
you have it, have the differentproposals in front of you decide
who you're going to hire. You'regoing to go through the whatever
process they have for onboardingyou in regards to, you know,
signing the contract and allthat stuff. And then for when
I'm hiring, when I'm hiringsubcontractor, I really want to
(24:28):
follow their onboarding processas much as possible for
depending on the subcontractor,right, right. So they're the
expert, they should be tellingme what they need and how we're
going to move forward. But whenwe're talking about like an
administrative assistant or avirtual assistant or something
like that, then there is a lotmore training that has to
happen. So a lot of the timesyou're going to people, sorry,
(24:51):
I'll take one step back. Beforehiring people get the other
thing people It stuck on is notjust I have to know these things
before I put them out. But Ihave to create all these SOPs,
all these standard operatingprocedures and stuff. And you
don't have to do all that. Whatyou can do to make your life
(25:12):
easier is just the next timeyou're doing any of your tasks,
just record I'll just start aloom. If you don't have a really
cheap, get it, just start ascreenshare or whatever, just
to, to record yourself doing itand just talk through the
process while you're doing it.
And then that's the start ofyour training materials. And
then you can if you're hiring avirtual assistant, you can
(25:34):
actually help them help youcreate SOPs. So just have as
much documented as possible. ButI'd say for onboarding the two
things, two mistakes I seepeople make often, especially
when hiring Bas, is one theyjust hire, and then they hands
off it. They're like, Oh, Ihired somebody to do it. Also,
(25:54):
everything's fine. They're goingto do it. And then six months
later, they actually look atwhat's being done or not done.
And it's, you know, a problem.
So that's one thing. And thenthe second thing is just kind of
micromanaging. Some people willget in their head that they have
to like, highlight every singlestep to have somebody do but
(26:16):
really, just try and delegatethe outcome. So instead of
saying, you know, hey, can youlog into my website and put this
blog here, and here's how you doit, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
you can say, hey, I post aweekly blog, it's, I just put it
in the Google Drive. Can you getit up on the website? And you
know, that needs to be up byWednesday at noon every week?
(26:38):
Like delegate the outcome? Andthen you can see how see how it
goes.
Erin Geiger (26:45):
Yeah. And how Okay, so how do you delegate, I think
you felt like that's such aproblem. You know, it's like, so
many people are like, if youwant it done, right, do it
yourself. So it's like, what'syour advice for them? Like, just
like the love of Pete, delegateit?
Unknown (27:03):
Yeah, it is really hard. And there's a lot of
things happening for people. Andit's different things for
different people. So some peoplethey've you know, they've had a
bad experience. And now they'rereally worried about handing
stuff over. It's hard to trustpeople. Some people, they just
feel like it has to be exactlytheir way. I've done it this way
for, you know, six years, itneeds to be this way all the
(27:26):
time. But yeah, there's lots ofstuff going on. So you're going
to, you're going to speed upyour ability to delegate, if you
kind of figure out what it isthat's holding you back, if you
just be honest with yourselfabout specifically what's
holding you back. You don't haveto tell anybody what the what
the block is. But just tellyourself what it is. Because
(27:48):
then you can you can startmoving around it. But I'd say
like practice makes perfect andeverything right? So starting
your day with looking ateverything you do, you're about
to do for the day and go, Oh, Ithat that is something somebody
else can do. That is somethingsomebody else can do. During the
onboarding process, especiallylike for virtual assistant,
(28:10):
you're going to want to takeyour time, like, you're going to
want to meet with them, Iusually meet with them on. Well,
if they're working on mybusiness every day, I'll meet
with them every day. Otherwise,I'll meet with them, like at
least once a week to just kindof go over priorities like this
is what we're looking at to do.
And double check, do you haveany, any issues, anything coming
up any questions happening, andthen also double checking their
(28:32):
work, I don't double checkeverything they do. But I will
kind of like spot check thingsand just see how things are
going. And then the more I liketo meet with my team, at least
weekly anyways, no matter what.
But you can put it to every twoweeks if you have start getting
a good flow going. But thatfirst month is really, really
(28:53):
imperative that you actuallyspend a little bit of extra time
and just be checking in withthem on a regular basis to make
sure that it's all going welland that they have the
opportunity to check with you.
And make sure and like ask youquestions and things like that.
And if you do meet with themregularly, you'll typically know
within that first two weeks to amonth, if this is the right
(29:14):
person for you. Yeah, so as longas you're checking the work,
checking with them, asking themquestions, paying close
attention to things like well, Igave them I gave them a task. It
was done wrong. I gave them Icorrected it like I didn't
correct don't ever correct theirwork, you ask them to correct
their work. But you know, Iasked for it to be corrected and
(29:35):
then they still did it wrong.
That's that's usually a bit of ared flag so so watch for things
like that. And then the otherthing is, what I see people do
is they don't like tellingpeople bad things. So they don't
like contacting their VA andsaying hey, you know, this is a
(29:58):
problem for me and That's onething you can do to try and get
around that is because you haveto have those conversations or
else, you're not doing anybody,any favors Least of all
yourself. But one thing you cando is like, just think about,
like one getting them involvedin the solution. So if you see a
problem, you can say, hey, Inoticed that this is happening.
(30:19):
This, you know, this way, but itactually has to be this way. You
know, is there something in theprocess we can change to make
sure that this happens goingforward? What would you suggest?
Like, do you know what'shappening here? And just get be
curious, rather than layingblame? And, you know, look at
the process that needs tohappen, rather than judging them
(30:41):
as a person.
Erin Geiger (30:42):
Yeah. Now don't yeah, don't make it personal.
Make it about the business. Andalso like, yeah, just look at
focus on like, what needs to beimproved, and not go into the
backstory of why what they didis horrible. Yeah. So let's say
you hire someone is going great,awesome. Let's say you hired
someone and you're like, This isnot working out. Tips for
(31:06):
letting someone go, what shouldthey say?
Unknown (31:09):
Yeah, tips for letting somebody go, just be open and
honest. And make it short andsweet. So if you have done your
like, if you have met your sideof the commitment, meaning that
you've checked in with them, youhave corrected, tried to correct
the process, and, you know, helpthem learn, and they're still
(31:32):
doing things wrong, or still notworking out or whatnot, then
they should know already. So itwon't come as a surprise, and
just to how quick zoom meeting,you can do it through email. But
you know, that's up to you, I'llleave that up to you, whether
you do it through email, orzoom, I tend to do it through
(31:54):
zoom, but check your contractfirst to see like, make sure you
understand what it is you'veagreed to. And make sure that
you're you're living within theconfines of the agreement, and
then just be open and say like,Hey, as you know, like, we're
struggling to get this done. Andunfortunately, it's still not
(32:15):
happening. And at this point intime, we're gonna have to, you
know, move on, I don't thinkthis is a great fit for us. So
for either of us, honestly. Andjust make it short and sweet.
Don't belabor the point, don'ttell them how sad you are, or
anything like that, it's alreadyprobably going to be hard enough
(32:35):
for them that they're losing it.
So don't make it about you, andjust just let them go. And when
when you let them go. Like, youdo need to know like, are they
working to the end of a contractperiod? So a lot of times
there's a contract period. Somost people are fine. Like, as
long as you've you're followingthe letter of the contract and
(32:58):
giving them the notice that theyneed, then it's okay, they can
go win somewhere else. And
Erin Geiger (33:05):
yeah, yeah. So speaking of contract, where do
you have like a source that yourecommend? Or how does somebody
draft a contract, when they'rejust kind of starting out with
their first tire?
Unknown (33:17):
Well, again, if you're hiring a subcontractor, it's the
onus is really on them to giveyou a contract. So I would say,
if you don't have if they don'thave one, it's but like, if
you're hiring somebody that'spretty new to their field, then
maybe they might not havesomething drafted. Then I do
(33:40):
recommend, I mean, there are somany places online, like law
depot and things like that,where you can get a independent
contractor agreement. But makesure that you get your own
lawyer to review it so that itmakes sense for you and covers
you and also is legal in your inyour area, as some people just
(34:02):
grab a grab a contract and goand then half the clauses don't
actually apply or not. Or notfound, like legal in their state
or country or whatever.
Erin Geiger (34:14):
Yeah, how to close those loopholes. Yes. Yeah. So
so, so much great information.
And I feel like I'm just likethrowing questions your way
because it's so interesting tome. And I'm like, what about
this? What about that? So whatin your own business? Is there
like a tool or a process thatyou're like, I cannot live
without this thing. And it'sreally kind of changed your
(34:34):
business or your life for thebetter that you could share?
Unknown (34:40):
Oh, my gosh, yeah, I have so many tools. What do I
pick? So my main kind of like, Iguess, heart of my business, if
I, if I call it that is myproject management tool. And my
favorite project management toolis Teamwork projects. I've used
a ton of project managementtools and teamwork is, it's, to
(35:06):
me, it's just the absolute bestbecause it has won the best
customer service in the world.
They are the best humans I'veever gotten the pleasure of
having to deal with. And they'rein development all the times,
like they, they're always up,you know, updating the program
and listening to their actualpeople, to their actual users.
(35:27):
But it controls everything in mybusiness, like everything that
has to happen. And it's a reallygood marriage between like
simplicity of use, but alsoreally feature rich, so you can
do a lot in it, but you don'thave to. And you can just use
basic features and still get themost out of it. So teamwork is
(35:50):
probably the big thing. And thensecond to that would probably be
Zapier. I like creatingautomations and trying to
streamline things in my businessand even doing fun things like I
have one, I have one fun zapthat just once a week, it goes
into giffy and finds a fun SafeFor Work dancing, GIF, and
(36:10):
shoots it over to my team slack.
And then everybody, I never toldanybody I was doing it, I just
did it. And then all of asudden, everybody started
responding with their own littledancing gifts. So once a week,
we just you know, the whole teamjust shares dancing gifts, and
it's just an automatic processthat I don't have to do anything
for.
Erin Geiger (36:29):
I love that. That's so cool. Yeah, there's always
different ways you could use it.
Right? That's also reallycreative. I'm curious, I know,
you've probably used so manyprograms or so many different
things. What about social media?
Like, is there a social mediaplatform that you're like, oh,
yeah, this one's the easiest oneto like schedule and get the all
the analytics that you need notto stuff.
Unknown (36:50):
Unfortunately, social media is my like, my one
weakness. I am terrible atsocial media. If you go to any
of my social media platforms,you will not think that I'm
terrible at social media,because I hire a lovely person
named Mary J. And she isamazing. And yeah, she's she is
(37:12):
the best thing in the world. Andyeah, she makes me look good
online. So for planning andstuff like that, for social
media, I unfortunately don'tknow. I know, like a lot of
people use play alley and likethings like that. But yeah,
Erin Geiger (37:28):
they'll get it.
Yeah, that's a great example ofhiring somebody to take care of
such things. You know whatyou're great at and you hire out
for the other things. That'sawesome. Everyone's,
Unknown (37:41):
like, get the idea that I'm going to post this story,
and then it's like, an hourlater, and I just decide, no,
I'm not going to because it'snot gonna happen. Okay, so let's
be honest.
Erin Geiger (37:53):
Um, are there any sort of like, routines that you
use in your life to keep sanebetween your personal life and
your professional life that youkind of do every day or not, you
know, maybe not on a consistentcadence, but it just helps you
like be?
Unknown (38:09):
Yeah, I do have. So one big thing is I try and keep my
work in my office. And I willsometimes work from the couch.
But typically, my work is in myoffice. So it's a nice, separate
space. And then, you know, Iwork out three times a week and
(38:30):
do some weightlifting andpunching the bag and things like
that, and which always keepsthings a bit sane. And then
anytime I'm gonna hustle. Like,if I feel like, I need to hustle
to get something done, I outlinethe like, the parameters of the
hustle. So I don't just start,you know, working a ton of hours
(38:52):
and keep it going forever. I'llsay, Okay, well, I want to get
this done. And this is thereason I want to get it done.
And this is, and I want to getit done by this date. I'm going
to do X amount of hustlingbetween now and then. And I just
let the family know if I'm goingto do that so that they know
I'm, you know, might beunavailable for a week or two
while I get something, you know,accomplished. So,
Erin Geiger (39:15):
I love that schedule your hustle. For sure.
Unknown (39:19):
Hustling is not inherently bad. It's the fact
that people think they have todo it. That is the problem and
you don't have to do it. I mean,hustling can be good. Just
don't. Don't just get stuck inthe endless hustle. That's
terrible.
Erin Geiger (39:32):
Yes, that eats away at everything. That's pleasant.
Yes. So as you look ahead, whatgoals do you have what visions
you have for your for yourbusiness?
Unknown (39:43):
Oh my gosh, so many depends on how far ahead we're
looking at. I'll tell you that.
Like I have a kind of secretpseudo secret goal to, at least
in my lifetime help create amillion jobs by helping business
owners I was growing scalarbusiness and also by mentoring
other other people to starttheir own virtual assistant
(40:07):
practice. So that's kind of myultimate goal. I don't know that
if I'll ever do it or ever knowthat I'll do it that I've done
it because I don't really have away of tracking. But. But that's
kind of like what I'm what I'maiming for just to try and
create as many jobs as possiblethrough helping helping people
be successful and doing whatthey love. So other than that,
(40:28):
in regards to my business, theway it is right now, like, my
goal is, I have a few newproducts that are coming out to
make things a little bit morehands off. And I'm looking to
ramp up my training of virtualassistants, too. So that because
(40:48):
I'm constantly getting peopleasking me for VA references, so
I am actually training morepeople up to be able to refer to
Erin Geiger (40:59):
so that's kind of my goal. That's really, it's
really cool. So then you canlike know, with, like, so much
confidence of like these peoplecame up through my program, and
I know that they're stellar. Andso now that's really great.
Where can people find youonline?
Unknown (41:16):
You can find me at any old task.ca. You can also find
me on Instagram, with just anyold task, and you can find me on
YouTube. It's sidekick, COO.
Erin Geiger (41:27):
Awesome. We'll include those links in the show
notes. And lastly, we askedeverybody the same question at
the end of the discussion, whichis, if you can only listen to
one music artists for the restof your life, who would it be?
Unknown (41:40):
This is really hard for me because I am terrible with
picking favorites. And I, I'mvery eclectic in my musical
choices, so but I would probablyhave to say either Johnny Cash
or George Jones, like,
Erin Geiger (41:57):
those are solid.
Yeah,
Unknown (41:59):
yeah, they're, they're in. I grew up with those
listening to listen to them inmy home. And they just remind me
of my parents. And it's I think,if I had to pick just one
artist, that would be the personI the people that I listened to,
I think
Erin Geiger (42:13):
yeah, no, that's, that's really cool. Yeah, we
asked the question, I asked thequestion, because it's a hard
one. And it's like, and I tellpeople, like, I know, I'm a
jerk, but I love it. Um, Sandra,thank you so much for taking the
time out. I had such a blastdiscussing this with you and you
shared so many useful things. Ireally am so grateful.
Unknown (42:35):
Oh, thank you. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
And, you know, it's always it'salways nice to chat. And thanks
so much for having me on. Right.
Thanks, Sandra.
Erin Geiger (42:45):
Thanks for tuning into the Small Business Big
mindset podcast. To keep the fungoing. Check out our Facebook
group start and scale an onlinebusiness For even more free
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(43:07):
As always be authentic bringinginsane amount of value and keep
crushing it
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset
podcast, where we dive intotactical strategies to grow your
business. And to make an impacton this world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast, let's do this.
(00:25):
Welcome to the small business, abig mindset podcast this week, I
am so excited you guys we haveSandra Booker, founder of any
old task and host of psychic coWelcome to the show. Sandra.
Unknown (00:39):
Thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited
to be here.
Erin Geiger (00:42):
Sandra, if you guys have not heard of her or worked
with her, she is a godsend to somany companies, so many
businesses, business ownersflocked to work with her, check
out her website, I'm going toput her you're out on the show
notes. So typically, I mentionedall that at the end. But she
really is just incredible. Youcan learn more about what about
what she does, but and she'lltell us more about what she
(01:04):
does. Oh, of course, Sandra, ohmy gosh, we have a mutual friend
in Laura Bell Gray, and she justI cannot sing the praises of
Sandra more than more than Ialready have a total fangirl.
Okay, so Sandra, will you giveus info about your your
background, how you get startedand how you came to be where you
(01:26):
are today?
Unknown (01:27):
Yeah, for sure. Coles Notes version, like in my past
actually holding down jobs, Iwas always kind of the go to
person. Everybody, like I endedup covering everybody's desk, I
ended up kind of like going toevery department and helping get
people caught up. So I wasalways kind of just the catch
(01:48):
all person. And fast forward alittle while I ended up in a
bookkeeping firm, not going tohave no bookkeeping training or
anything, I just picked it up,it was fine. So I ended up there
and helping him build hisbusiness. And during this time,
I'm still kind of livingpaycheck to paycheck with my
(02:09):
husband and our child. And whois very high, like highly
introverted, and social anxietywants lots of stuff. And they
came home from high school, um,wanting to go on a school trip
to Iceland. And I was justamazed that they wanted to leave
(02:32):
the house, let alone a country.
And they didn't know anybodythat was going just they've
decided Iceland was sounded fun.
And so I was like, I need tomake this happen. And so I was
just trying to come up with somemoney, started on fiber friend
told me about fiber. So Istarted offering transcription
(02:53):
services there that took off,people started asking me what
else I could do. Eventually, Idecided, a friend of mine said,
you know, you can make this intoa business. And I went, Oh, I
Okay. So I started the business.
And from there, I started as avirtual assistant and quickly
realized that that even thoughI'm very, very good at it, that
(03:15):
I that's not really where my,you know, my skill set really
shines. And it's more businessmanagement, really helping
people put all the piecestogether so that their their
business actually flows welland, and streamlined and, you
know, can get past all thosestuck points. So that's why I
(03:37):
moved into business managementand helping people figure out
their path to scaling theirbusiness.
Erin Geiger (03:46):
Yeah, and I have seen you in action, and it is
incredible to watch. I mean, youare always juggling a million
things for multiple businesses,and we're talking big successful
businesses that have a lot ofpressures and a lot of
expectations attached to them.
And you always handle everythingwith such ease, you know, it's
like anything that I've seenthrown your way or just like,
(04:08):
okay, you know, and you figureit out, and you move on, and
it's just like, what doesn'teven seem like a glitch to
anyone else, you know? So Imean, just kudos to you so, so
impressed with that, becausethat is not an easy task at all,
you know, to kind of support andmanage these, these big
businesses that are supersuccessful, so and in no small
(04:29):
part to you, you know, that'samazing. So you have so many
things like that we could talkabout on this podcast, because
so many skills in so many areas.
But let's kind of focus in onthe hiring aspect of managing
and growing a business becausewe haven't talked too much about
(04:52):
that on the show as of yet alittle bit. And I know that
there's some people in theaudience that are alike I'm a
I'm a, you know, a team of oneor maybe I've hired we're not
sure if I did it right, or Ineed to grow more. And so
they're kind of at this breakingpoint. And so could we kind of
focus on that and just kind oftalk about like, you know, first
(05:14):
of all, there's options when youwant to hire their
subcontractors or employeesthere, you know, and it's like
the pros and cons to both. Mostof the people most of the
listeners are probably going towant to start out with on the
subcontractor route. So we candive deeper into that. But maybe
you can even start the beginningof like, how do you know when
it's time to hire? And then youroptions? And then how do you go
(05:36):
about executing it?
Unknown (05:39):
Yeah, for sure, we can totally focus on that. It is a
big sticking point for peoplefiguring out like, when do I
hire? And how do I hire and whodo I hire and all of that stuff.
And I'd say that a lot of uswait too long to hire, a lot of
us wait till we're strugglingand overwhelmed. And on the
(06:02):
point of burnout, before weactually put any effort into
finding support, we do it whenwe're desperate, instead of
planning ahead, and part of thatis because a lot of a lot of
business owners that I see don'tactually have any times in their
business where they actually sitdown and analyze what's actually
(06:24):
happening, a lot of us get stuckin just like the day to day
trying to move stuff forward.
And not really taking a stepback and analyzing where we are
and figuring out what is thenext the best next step. So if I
could, you know, give anybody apiece of advice, it would be
like start building pauses intoyour business where you actually
stop. And, you know, take abreath and look at where you
(06:49):
are, and, and really analyzewhat you actually need in your
business. Anytime a businessowner is already, like, if
you're already working like fulltime hours, or whatever, like
the maximum number of hours thatyou want to be working, you
probably at that point alreadyneed somebody in your business
(07:09):
to help. Because as soon asyou're at that point, then there
you have no room to do anythingelse. So as soon as you're
getting close to that pointwhere like, yeah, I have my full
day is just like taken up.
Likely, you could easily hiresomebody to take on events, if
it's just to start with admintasks or whatnot. So I would
(07:30):
say, Yeah, that would be it islike, as soon as your full like
besties are coming up to fulltime hours, you really should
start looking at potentiallydelegating some stuff off your
plate. Yeah, that's
Erin Geiger (07:41):
so smart. Because I don't even think about that, you
know, you kind of like, almostwork yourself to a wall. And
then you're like, Okay, wait,now I need help, when you should
actually be planning for that,you know, like, working toward
that and having that as like,okay, that's going to be
something that's going tohappen, and I need to be aware
of that and intentional about itinstead of like, oh, shoot, I'm
(08:04):
behind. And I'm super stressedout. Now I need to figure out
how and okay, I'll just takethis person, like, they have a
pulse.
Unknown (08:14):
They might know what they're doing. And for anybody
that's thinking like, Yeah, butmoney. One to hire somebody to
start isn't necessarily going tobe I will get into the details,
but it's not really necessarilygoing to be that much to save
you some time. And also to somany people I know are spending
a huge amount of money onprofessional development on
(08:37):
buying courses and things toupgrade their own skills, take a
fraction of that, that you'reputting towards your own
professional development andjust hire somebody to help you.
There. If you're buying coursesor anything like that, then you
do have some funds that you canput towards help instead. And
that's another thing a lot ofpeople just get stuck in the I
(09:00):
have to do it, which means Ineed to know how to do it, which
means I need this course.
Instead of it has to be done.
What's the best avenue forgetting it done? And that's not
necessarily me. Like maybe it isyou but a lot of the time?
Probably not.
Erin Geiger (09:15):
Yeah, yeah. Cuz like you want to be able to
focus on your area of expertise,you know, and it's like, yes,
learn how to do what it isyou're about to outsource. So
that you can kind of guide thatperson and you know what you
want out of it. But then alsoyou want to like be able to grow
the part of the business thatreally requires you then your
(09:36):
knowledge and your expertise andI love that tip about kind of
reallocating funds because itdoes you're like I can't add on
another expense. I just can'tyou know, as most people are
gonna say, but it's like look atwhat you're already spending and
a lot of us Yeah, are buyingdigital courses to try to up
level. So So I love that somuch.
Unknown (09:56):
Yeah, I do want to just hit on something that you said
just said because This is athing a lot of people believe
that they have to learnsomething before they can pass
something off. And that is1,000%. untrue. In my mind, if
my toilet clogs or somethingbreaks in my bathroom, I don't
go and learn any plumbingskills, I just hire a plumber.
(10:19):
If I need help in my business,and I don't know how to do
something, I don't need to bethe one to learn it, and then
bring somebody in, I just needto know what I want out of it.
So if I, for instance, Facebookads is a big thing people want
help with, but they don't knowhow to run Facebook ads. But you
know what you want out of thoseFacebook ads, you know, the
(10:42):
numbers, you're looking for thenumber of leads that you'd like
to get, and the revenue thatyou'd like to generate. That's
all you need to be able toconfirm if somebody is doing a
good job, are they meeting thegoals for that role. So you
don't have to learn all aboutforecast to see to, to then
teach the person or make surethat you have the right person,
(11:02):
you just need to take your timewhen hiring and double check in.
You know, there's a lot ofthings you can do in hiring to
find the right person, but youdon't have to learn it all. So
sure,
Erin Geiger (11:12):
sure. And I you know, let me take a step back,
and I'm being an expert at it.
No, having a basic knowledge.
Yes. You know, you know, like abasic of like, okay, I've looked
at the Facebook ads tool, youknow, I kind of understand where
my money's going, you know, thatsort of a thing I think is
smart. Knowing it all being anexpert. 100% agree with you on
(11:35):
that. Because yeah, so you don'tneed to know I'm not a plumber,
I'm gonna hire someone I know.
But I never be sick of like,okay, I know, the pipe is
broken. And I know how you know,you don't, I'm saying like, I
have a basic knowledge of like,what the problem might be, and
they're gonna fix it for me,because I don't know how to do
it. And I'm not going to learn.
So yes, 100% agree on that. Solet's thank you for that. Thank
you for bringing that up andclarifying for sure. And then,
(11:58):
you know, a, there's also athought out there that you only
have to know a tiny amount ofsomething in order to teach
something, you know, and there'sdifferent, different camps on
that as well. But I really,really appreciate you bringing
it up. Because it's very, verygood point. Don't run yourself
ragged learning everything abouteverything before you hire,
please don't do that. So thankyou for clarifying. Okay, so
(12:21):
once they've decided, okay, Ineed to hire, then what what do
they do? What are their options?
And how, what do you what's youradvice there.
Unknown (12:30):
So I think the first thing is figuring out what you
need to hire for. And to do thatyou don't like a lot of people,
a lot of gurus will just say youneeded a min, you need a VA get
a VA or you need an integrator,get an integrator or whatever
the hot, new trendy thing tohave in your businesses, they're
gonna tell you that don't dothat, you need to actually
(12:52):
analyze your own business. So agreat way to do that is to just
analyze where your time isgoing. So I recommend, like just
actually just taking note ofwhere all of your time is going
every day. So every 15 minutes,you stop and you write down what
it is you're just doing. Ifyou're on a meeting for an hour,
then at the end of that meeting,you're not done that meeting
(13:14):
till you stop, and you writedown what it was you were just
doing for that last hour. And dothat for two weeks. And at the
end of the two weeks, you canstart grouping, you know, all
the like, work together. And youcan see, oh, like I actually
don't, because I've worked withbusinesses too, they don't have
a lot of admin, they've they'veimplemented a lot of automation,
they don't actually have a lotof admin to do what they really
(13:37):
are spending their time on insocial media. And, you know,
they, they're not great at it,and they spend way too much time
at it. And that was wherethey're going to get the biggest
bang for the buck. I had oneperson who after looking at
other time, because I recommenddoing it from the, you know,
from when you get up to when yougo to bed because you know, as
business owners, you're notturning it off, right? A lot of
(13:57):
us anyway. So one person I wasspeaking with at the end of her
two weeks, when she looked atit, it was actually like her
business didn't take up a lot oftime. But she had three kids,
three kids, I can't remembernow, she had a lot of kids. They
were all picky eater, she wasspending a ton of time just
shopping, meal planning,cooking. And then also spending
(14:21):
quality time with kids and thenalso cleaning and I was like,
Okay, well, where can we justlike maybe you need a personal
assistant or somebody just comein and do meal planning and
cooking for you or cleaning orwhatnot. So sometimes it's not
even in your business where thefirst best step is. So don't
listen to the gurus who just sayget a VA. Listen to your own
business and what you'reactually doing and see where you
(14:44):
actually need the help and don'ttry and just judge it by your
memory. Because your memory is aliar. All the things that you
don't like doing or you think isa slog to do. You're going to
think take up many, many, manyhours and all the things that
you While doing you're gonnathink takes up a fraction of the
time it probably does. So youreally need to actually write it
(15:05):
down in order to get a goodbook. Oh, that
Erin Geiger (15:08):
is so true. It's like you go through your day,
like, Oh, God took me forever toget through this one thing. And
then, you know, you think maybeit took you an hour or two, and
you look back and you're like,Oh, it's 20 minutes? What's
Yeah. You know, and then youthink you need help with your
like, that actually is like asmall fraction of your entire
day. Yeah, and you're right.
Maybe it's, maybe it'sprofessional to support your
(15:31):
business, and maybe it'spersonnel to support your life
so that you can do yourbusiness. That's such a great
way to look at it. For sure.
Okay, so then once they kind ofidentify that, what's the next
step, then? Are they at thepoint where they're looking at
like subcontractor or employeeor like, what, what's next?
Unknown (15:50):
Yeah, so then you're gonna want to decide whether
you're gonna get a subcontractoror employee. And there's pros
and cons for both. But ingeneral, like an employee, a lot
of times you can get, you know,at a decent hourly rate, but
then you also have to tend topay benefits and stuff. But if
(16:11):
you have like, full time work,like if you know, this is going
to be full time work. And youreally want somebody who's going
to be available when you wantthem to be available, then
definitely probably anemployee's what you're going to
be looking for, if it's not fulltime work. And if you're very
(16:32):
flexible, like you're, it's aslong as it gets done, it's fine,
then you might want to go forthe subcontractor route.
subcontractors. Not all but likeif you've got one that's
experienced, they might alreadyknow a lot of stuff. Employees,
depending on what you're hiringfor, there's probably going to
be electronic involved. So justkind of have to weigh the pros
and cons and determine what'sbest for you. Most people are
(16:55):
going to go with a subcontractorfor their their first hire.
Erin Geiger (16:59):
Yep, know for sure.
Thanks for those stipulations.
And so okay, they're like, Okay,I'm gonna hire a subcontractor.
Do they write out the jobrequirements first? Like, what,
what's kind of the first stepthere?
Unknown (17:11):
Yeah, so I typically encourage people to write out a
job description, so that they'reclear on what is entailed, like
what they're looking for,rather. And when you're writing
your job description, you wantto include, you know, what
outcome are you wanting thesepeople, this this person to
achieve in your business, andwhat their responsibilities are
(17:31):
going to be like, you know,don't just include I want
somebody who knows what Facebookads, you want to include. I want
somebody who knows aboutFacebook ads, too, because you
will be responsible forincreasing our, you know, lead
generation by X percent, orwhatever, like, just try and
like, make the outcome clear.
And then, once you have the jobdescription, then you're going
(17:53):
to start actually looking for,for the person. And a great way
to find somebody is throughreferrals. So ask your other
business owners for referrals.
Depending on what role you'rehiring for, there might be
associations that you cancontact, like, if you're looking
(18:14):
for a virtual assistant, there'slike a bunch of different VA
associations, like one forCanada, one international and
one for the US that you canusually find a VA through them.
There's, there's all sorts ofall sorts of places you can,
it's easy to find asubcontractor, the mistake most
people make, is they hire thefirst person they talk to, or
the first person that somebodysays, Oh, this, this is who you
(18:35):
should go with. And that isreally, the mistake that I see
most people making is just onlytalking to one person.
Erin Geiger (18:44):
Yeah, is there kind of like a sweet spot, you know,
talk to this many people andlike, and then follow up
question is like, how do youknow, you know, which, which is
the right person to go at? Likejust your gut? Or like, what
what do you look at?
Unknown (18:59):
Oh, it's really it is really hard to know. There's
ways to reduce the likelihood ofgetting a lemon. And there's
ways of making sure that it is asuccessful relationship once you
do hire somebody, because thoseare the two times like, that's
really all that happens. It'seither you pick the right
person, and they're amazing, oryou pick the right person, but
(19:22):
it doesn't work out for somereason, or you pick the wrong
person. That's, that's those arethe three options, right? So I
would say, first, you're goingto want to try and like get as
many as you can. I like to lookat, you know, at least 10 to 15
Different people in the area, asmany as I can get, and that seem
reasonable and just kind of gothrough. I don't talk to all
(19:44):
those people. But I do like totry and talk to at least three
to five. So after I go through abunch and I kind of do my own
research on people. Then I'llkind of pare it down to the top
three or five that I want tospeak to and then I have
meetings them. And, you know,depending on what you're hiring
for, you might, you might dodifferent things. But some
(20:07):
things that I like to do is justlike, one, make sure that I can
see examples of their work. Itry it, I hope that they kind of
lead the call. But I also tryand prepare with questions. And
some of my questions will bedesigned to kind of test their
their knowledge a little bit.
So, for instance, if I'm lookingfor, for a virtual assistant, I
(20:29):
might ask them, Well, I used toask them, it doesn't make sense
to ask them anymore. But I usedto ask them how to add preview
text to a ConvertKit. Email,like, Do you know how to add
preview text to ConvertKit?
Email? And the reason I askedthat is because when I when I
used to ask it, there wasn't aneasy way to do it. But there was
(20:50):
an easy way to find out. And ifthey could at least find out the
answer. That was that wassomething right. But I ask them
questions that kind of testtheir knowledge a little bit.
See if you can talk to some oftheir past clients, if anybody
ever refers you to somebody,don't just take the referral,
like ask that person questionslike, you know, did you work
(21:11):
with them? What were there?
Like? What did you like aboutworking with them? What did you
didn't you like about workingwith them? Just take the time?
And then if you're still notsure, you're still worried. It's
always a good a good idea to dosome sort of like paid trial. So
you can always say like, can wejust work on one small project
and see how it goes? Got
Erin Geiger (21:33):
it? Okay, no, super smart. And so when you think you
found your person? What steps doyou take to figure out pay?
Right? So you're like, how muchdo I pay this person? I have no
idea. So what how? How do peopleresearch, you know, within their
own industry and the tasks thatthey need to be done to figure
(21:55):
that out.
Unknown (21:57):
So again, like, you don't, you don't get to set the
pay of your hiring asubcontractor, you just get to
accept that, you know, set whatyou will accept, or what your
budget is. So when you'retalking, like if you're talking
to three to five people, andyou're getting proposals from
those people, you know, you cansee if, what the averages, but
(22:20):
you can also like, you don'thave to talk to everybody, you
could put feelers out to twodifferent places. And, you know,
say, Hey, I'm looking for X, Y,and Z is there, do you have an
idea of like, what that mightcost? Or you can do that work?
Usually, I rely on just lookingat the proposals that I get and
see what it is. And thenwhatever my budget is, because
(22:42):
yeah, especially in the onlinespace, like you can get a wide
variety of ranges. So me, but itall does, it all will come down
to what your your actual budgetis like hiring a virtual
assistant, you know, dependingon where you're hiring from, or
you know what you're hiring themto do, you could be spending 25
(23:04):
to $50 an hour. And some everyonce in a while. I see more than
that, but I wouldn't. I don'tknow. It's kind of bad to have
to be special. Yeah.
Erin Geiger (23:17):
That's it. Cool.
Okay, so you've hired your firstperson. And then I think the
last thing to do, you know,because then we go into, like
maintaining employees that youknow, them as a subcontractor
and working with them, but justfocusing on the hiring part. So,
do you have any kind of tips foroffering the role to a person
and then onboarding them whenthey first start?
Unknown (23:44):
Yeah. So again, because there's so contractors, it's
like, a lot of us have, a lot ofus have the idea that it's kind
of like hiring employees until Ihave to make them an offer, but
you're not making them an offer.
They're making you an offer, andyou're deciding whether you're
going to accept it or not. Andthen they just have, you know,
first chance at refusal, prettymuch. So I would say like, once
(24:04):
you have it, have the differentproposals in front of you decide
who you're going to hire. You'regoing to go through the whatever
process they have for onboardingyou in regards to, you know,
signing the contract and allthat stuff. And then for when
I'm hiring, when I'm hiringsubcontractor, I really want to
(24:28):
follow their onboarding processas much as possible for
depending on the subcontractor,right, right. So they're the
expert, they should be tellingme what they need and how we're
going to move forward. But whenwe're talking about like an
administrative assistant or avirtual assistant or something
like that, then there is a lotmore training that has to
happen. So a lot of the timesyou're going to people, sorry,
(24:51):
I'll take one step back. Beforehiring people get the other
thing people It stuck on is notjust I have to know these things
before I put them out. But Ihave to create all these SOPs,
all these standard operatingprocedures and stuff. And you
don't have to do all that. Whatyou can do to make your life
(25:12):
easier is just the next timeyou're doing any of your tasks,
just record I'll just start aloom. If you don't have a really
cheap, get it, just start ascreenshare or whatever, just
to, to record yourself doing itand just talk through the
process while you're doing it.
And then that's the start ofyour training materials. And
then you can if you're hiring avirtual assistant, you can
(25:34):
actually help them help youcreate SOPs. So just have as
much documented as possible. ButI'd say for onboarding the two
things, two mistakes I seepeople make often, especially
when hiring Bas, is one theyjust hire, and then they hands
off it. They're like, Oh, Ihired somebody to do it. Also,
(25:54):
everything's fine. They're goingto do it. And then six months
later, they actually look atwhat's being done or not done.
And it's, you know, a problem.
So that's one thing. And thenthe second thing is just kind of
micromanaging. Some people willget in their head that they have
to like, highlight every singlestep to have somebody do but
(26:16):
really, just try and delegatethe outcome. So instead of
saying, you know, hey, can youlog into my website and put this
blog here, and here's how you doit, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
you can say, hey, I post aweekly blog, it's, I just put it
in the Google Drive. Can you getit up on the website? And you
know, that needs to be up byWednesday at noon every week?
(26:38):
Like delegate the outcome? Andthen you can see how see how it
goes.
Erin Geiger (26:45):
Yeah. And how Okay, so how do you delegate, I think
you felt like that's such aproblem. You know, it's like, so
many people are like, if youwant it done, right, do it
yourself. So it's like, what'syour advice for them? Like, just
like the love of Pete, delegateit?
Unknown (27:03):
Yeah, it is really hard. And there's a lot of
things happening for people. Andit's different things for
different people. So some peoplethey've you know, they've had a
bad experience. And now they'rereally worried about handing
stuff over. It's hard to trustpeople. Some people, they just
feel like it has to be exactlytheir way. I've done it this way
for, you know, six years, itneeds to be this way all the
(27:26):
time. But yeah, there's lots ofstuff going on. So you're going
to, you're going to speed upyour ability to delegate, if you
kind of figure out what it isthat's holding you back, if you
just be honest with yourselfabout specifically what's
holding you back. You don't haveto tell anybody what the what
the block is. But just tellyourself what it is. Because
(27:48):
then you can you can startmoving around it. But I'd say
like practice makes perfect andeverything right? So starting
your day with looking ateverything you do, you're about
to do for the day and go, Oh, Ithat that is something somebody
else can do. That is somethingsomebody else can do. During the
onboarding process, especiallylike for virtual assistant,
(28:10):
you're going to want to takeyour time, like, you're going to
want to meet with them, Iusually meet with them on. Well,
if they're working on mybusiness every day, I'll meet
with them every day. Otherwise,I'll meet with them, like at
least once a week to just kindof go over priorities like this
is what we're looking at to do.
And double check, do you haveany, any issues, anything coming
up any questions happening, andthen also double checking their
(28:32):
work, I don't double checkeverything they do. But I will
kind of like spot check thingsand just see how things are
going. And then the more I liketo meet with my team, at least
weekly anyways, no matter what.
But you can put it to every twoweeks if you have start getting
a good flow going. But thatfirst month is really, really
(28:53):
imperative that you actuallyspend a little bit of extra time
and just be checking in withthem on a regular basis to make
sure that it's all going welland that they have the
opportunity to check with you.
And make sure and like ask youquestions and things like that.
And if you do meet with themregularly, you'll typically know
within that first two weeks to amonth, if this is the right
(29:14):
person for you. Yeah, so as longas you're checking the work,
checking with them, asking themquestions, paying close
attention to things like well, Igave them I gave them a task. It
was done wrong. I gave them Icorrected it like I didn't
correct don't ever correct theirwork, you ask them to correct
their work. But you know, Iasked for it to be corrected and
(29:35):
then they still did it wrong.
That's that's usually a bit of ared flag so so watch for things
like that. And then the otherthing is, what I see people do
is they don't like tellingpeople bad things. So they don't
like contacting their VA andsaying hey, you know, this is a
(29:58):
problem for me and That's onething you can do to try and get
around that is because you haveto have those conversations or
else, you're not doing anybody,any favors Least of all
yourself. But one thing you cando is like, just think about,
like one getting them involvedin the solution. So if you see a
problem, you can say, hey, Inoticed that this is happening.
(30:19):
This, you know, this way, but itactually has to be this way. You
know, is there something in theprocess we can change to make
sure that this happens goingforward? What would you suggest?
Like, do you know what'shappening here? And just get be
curious, rather than layingblame? And, you know, look at
the process that needs tohappen, rather than judging them
(30:41):
as a person.
Erin Geiger (30:42):
Yeah. Now don't yeah, don't make it personal.
Make it about the business. Andalso like, yeah, just look at
focus on like, what needs to beimproved, and not go into the
backstory of why what they didis horrible. Yeah. So let's say
you hire someone is going great,awesome. Let's say you hired
someone and you're like, This isnot working out. Tips for
(31:06):
letting someone go, what shouldthey say?
Unknown (31:09):
Yeah, tips for letting somebody go, just be open and
honest. And make it short andsweet. So if you have done your
like, if you have met your sideof the commitment, meaning that
you've checked in with them, youhave corrected, tried to correct
the process, and, you know, helpthem learn, and they're still
(31:32):
doing things wrong, or still notworking out or whatnot, then
they should know already. So itwon't come as a surprise, and
just to how quick zoom meeting,you can do it through email. But
you know, that's up to you, I'llleave that up to you, whether
you do it through email, orzoom, I tend to do it through
(31:54):
zoom, but check your contractfirst to see like, make sure you
understand what it is you'veagreed to. And make sure that
you're you're living within theconfines of the agreement, and
then just be open and say like,Hey, as you know, like, we're
struggling to get this done. Andunfortunately, it's still not
(32:15):
happening. And at this point intime, we're gonna have to, you
know, move on, I don't thinkthis is a great fit for us. So
for either of us, honestly. Andjust make it short and sweet.
Don't belabor the point, don'ttell them how sad you are, or
anything like that, it's alreadyprobably going to be hard enough
(32:35):
for them that they're losing it.
So don't make it about you, andjust just let them go. And when
when you let them go. Like, youdo need to know like, are they
working to the end of a contractperiod? So a lot of times
there's a contract period. Somost people are fine. Like, as
long as you've you're followingthe letter of the contract and
(32:58):
giving them the notice that theyneed, then it's okay, they can
go win somewhere else. And
Erin Geiger (33:05):
yeah, yeah. So speaking of contract, where do
you have like a source that yourecommend? Or how does somebody
draft a contract, when they'rejust kind of starting out with
their first tire?
Unknown (33:17):
Well, again, if you're hiring a subcontractor, it's the
onus is really on them to giveyou a contract. So I would say,
if you don't have if they don'thave one, it's but like, if
you're hiring somebody that'spretty new to their field, then
maybe they might not havesomething drafted. Then I do
(33:40):
recommend, I mean, there are somany places online, like law
depot and things like that,where you can get a independent
contractor agreement. But makesure that you get your own
lawyer to review it so that itmakes sense for you and covers
you and also is legal in your inyour area, as some people just
(34:02):
grab a grab a contract and goand then half the clauses don't
actually apply or not. Or notfound, like legal in their state
or country or whatever.
Erin Geiger (34:14):
Yeah, how to close those loopholes. Yes. Yeah. So
so, so much great information.
And I feel like I'm just likethrowing questions your way
because it's so interesting tome. And I'm like, what about
this? What about that? So whatin your own business? Is there
like a tool or a process thatyou're like, I cannot live
without this thing. And it'sreally kind of changed your
(34:34):
business or your life for thebetter that you could share?
Unknown (34:40):
Oh, my gosh, yeah, I have so many tools. What do I
pick? So my main kind of like, Iguess, heart of my business, if
I, if I call it that is myproject management tool. And my
favorite project management toolis Teamwork projects. I've used
a ton of project managementtools and teamwork is, it's, to
(35:06):
me, it's just the absolute bestbecause it has won the best
customer service in the world.
They are the best humans I'veever gotten the pleasure of
having to deal with. And they'rein development all the times,
like they, they're always up,you know, updating the program
and listening to their actualpeople, to their actual users.
(35:27):
But it controls everything in mybusiness, like everything that
has to happen. And it's a reallygood marriage between like
simplicity of use, but alsoreally feature rich, so you can
do a lot in it, but you don'thave to. And you can just use
basic features and still get themost out of it. So teamwork is
(35:50):
probably the big thing. And thensecond to that would probably be
Zapier. I like creatingautomations and trying to
streamline things in my businessand even doing fun things like I
have one, I have one fun zapthat just once a week, it goes
into giffy and finds a fun SafeFor Work dancing, GIF, and
(36:10):
shoots it over to my team slack.
And then everybody, I never toldanybody I was doing it, I just
did it. And then all of asudden, everybody started
responding with their own littledancing gifts. So once a week,
we just you know, the whole teamjust shares dancing gifts, and
it's just an automatic processthat I don't have to do anything
for.
Erin Geiger (36:29):
I love that. That's so cool. Yeah, there's always
different ways you could use it.
Right? That's also reallycreative. I'm curious, I know,
you've probably used so manyprograms or so many different
things. What about social media?
Like, is there a social mediaplatform that you're like, oh,
yeah, this one's the easiest oneto like schedule and get the all
the analytics that you need notto stuff.
Unknown (36:50):
Unfortunately, social media is my like, my one
weakness. I am terrible atsocial media. If you go to any
of my social media platforms,you will not think that I'm
terrible at social media,because I hire a lovely person
named Mary J. And she isamazing. And yeah, she's she is
(37:12):
the best thing in the world. Andyeah, she makes me look good
online. So for planning andstuff like that, for social
media, I unfortunately don'tknow. I know, like a lot of
people use play alley and likethings like that. But yeah,
Erin Geiger (37:28):
they'll get it.
Yeah, that's a great example ofhiring somebody to take care of
such things. You know whatyou're great at and you hire out
for the other things. That'sawesome. Everyone's,
Unknown (37:41):
like, get the idea that I'm going to post this story,
and then it's like, an hourlater, and I just decide, no,
I'm not going to because it'snot gonna happen. Okay, so let's
be honest.
Erin Geiger (37:53):
Um, are there any sort of like, routines that you
use in your life to keep sanebetween your personal life and
your professional life that youkind of do every day or not, you
know, maybe not on a consistentcadence, but it just helps you
like be?
Unknown (38:09):
Yeah, I do have. So one big thing is I try and keep my
work in my office. And I willsometimes work from the couch.
But typically, my work is in myoffice. So it's a nice, separate
space. And then, you know, Iwork out three times a week and
(38:30):
do some weightlifting andpunching the bag and things like
that, and which always keepsthings a bit sane. And then
anytime I'm gonna hustle. Like,if I feel like, I need to hustle
to get something done, I outlinethe like, the parameters of the
hustle. So I don't just start,you know, working a ton of hours
(38:52):
and keep it going forever. I'llsay, Okay, well, I want to get
this done. And this is thereason I want to get it done.
And this is, and I want to getit done by this date. I'm going
to do X amount of hustlingbetween now and then. And I just
let the family know if I'm goingto do that so that they know
I'm, you know, might beunavailable for a week or two
while I get something, you know,accomplished. So,
Erin Geiger (39:15):
I love that schedule your hustle. For sure.
Unknown (39:19):
Hustling is not inherently bad. It's the fact
that people think they have todo it. That is the problem and
you don't have to do it. I mean,hustling can be good. Just
don't. Don't just get stuck inthe endless hustle. That's
terrible.
Erin Geiger (39:32):
Yes, that eats away at everything. That's pleasant.
Yes. So as you look ahead, whatgoals do you have what visions
you have for your for yourbusiness?
Unknown (39:43):
Oh my gosh, so many depends on how far ahead we're
looking at. I'll tell you that.
Like I have a kind of secretpseudo secret goal to, at least
in my lifetime help create amillion jobs by helping business
owners I was growing scalarbusiness and also by mentoring
other other people to starttheir own virtual assistant
(40:07):
practice. So that's kind of myultimate goal. I don't know that
if I'll ever do it or ever knowthat I'll do it that I've done
it because I don't really have away of tracking. But. But that's
kind of like what I'm what I'maiming for just to try and
create as many jobs as possiblethrough helping helping people
be successful and doing whatthey love. So other than that,
(40:28):
in regards to my business, theway it is right now, like, my
goal is, I have a few newproducts that are coming out to
make things a little bit morehands off. And I'm looking to
ramp up my training of virtualassistants, too. So that because
(40:48):
I'm constantly getting peopleasking me for VA references, so
I am actually training morepeople up to be able to refer to
Erin Geiger (40:59):
so that's kind of my goal. That's really, it's
really cool. So then you canlike know, with, like, so much
confidence of like these peoplecame up through my program, and
I know that they're stellar. Andso now that's really great.
Where can people find youonline?
Unknown (41:16):
You can find me at any old task.ca. You can also find
me on Instagram, with just anyold task, and you can find me on
YouTube. It's sidekick, COO.
Erin Geiger (41:27):
Awesome. We'll include those links in the show
notes. And lastly, we askedeverybody the same question at
the end of the discussion, whichis, if you can only listen to
one music artists for the restof your life, who would it be?
Unknown (41:40):
This is really hard for me because I am terrible with
picking favorites. And I, I'mvery eclectic in my musical
choices, so but I would probablyhave to say either Johnny Cash
or George Jones, like,
Erin Geiger (41:57):
those are solid.
Yeah,
Unknown (41:59):
yeah, they're, they're in. I grew up with those
listening to listen to them inmy home. And they just remind me
of my parents. And it's I think,if I had to pick just one
artist, that would be the personI the people that I listened to,
I think
Erin Geiger (42:13):
yeah, no, that's, that's really cool. Yeah, we
asked the question, I asked thequestion, because it's a hard
one. And it's like, and I tellpeople, like, I know, I'm a
jerk, but I love it. Um, Sandra,thank you so much for taking the
time out. I had such a blastdiscussing this with you and you
shared so many useful things. Ireally am so grateful.
Unknown (42:35):
Oh, thank you. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
And, you know, it's always it'salways nice to chat. And thanks
so much for having me on. Right.
Thanks, Sandra.
Erin Geiger (42:45):
Thanks for tuning into the Small Business Big
mindset podcast. To keep the fungoing. Check out our Facebook
group start and scale an onlinebusiness For even more free
trainings and resources fromfellow entrepreneurs. If you
haven't already, head on over tomuscle creative.com and click
subscribe to join our email listfor weekly updates. And if
you've enjoyed this podcastepisode, check us out on your
favorite podcast platform tofollow us and give us a review.
(43:07):
As always be authentic bringinginsane amount of value and keep
crushing it
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