January 17, 2023 • 37 mins
My conversation with Nicole Rollender, founder of Strand Writing Services, was one that will make you want to take action immediately. My favorite entrepreneurs are those that leave it all on the table - they're open to sharing the minute details on each aspect of their business growth...the roses and the thorns of it.
After being downsized from her six-figure salary executive editor-in-chief role, Nicole decided to go out on her own. Within less than a year she scaled her business to six-figures and has never fallen below that income. In this episode, she shares super specific insights and tactics on how to set the foundation to scale your business to a consistent six-figure income each year...in a sustainable way.
From how to structure your payment process and cash flow to showing up as a CEO rather than a victim, Nicole gives direct, valuable guidance - all substance, no sugar. Should clients pay you upfront? Which is better - a 3-month or 6-month retainer? Should you do test projects to introduce yourself to a new client? What's the quickest way to get a set income every month? Should I zero in on a niche? Is LinkedIn worth it as a business growth tool? Listen in as we discuss all these questions and more.
Want to connect with Nicole? Check out her website, STRAND Writing Services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:02):
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast,
where we dive into tacticalstrategies to grow your
business. And to make an impacton this world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast. Let's do this
(00:25):
Hey, everybody, welcome to theSmall Business Big mindset
podcast today I have NicoleWallander, owner and chief
copywriter at strand writingServices. Welcome, Nicole. Thank
you so much for having me.
Excited to be here excited totalk to a fellow copywriter. I
always love it.
(00:47):
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself. Where are you based?
How did you get started a littlebit about your background? Yeah,
so I'm in New Jersey have livedhere my whole life. And I'm one
of those people you mightrelate. I always knew I was
going to be a writer. I wasfour. And I was like, I'm going
to be a writer, mom and dad.
That's what I'm going to do. AndI went to college. And then I
(01:11):
went to graduate school and Igot my MFA in creative writing.
And my parents were like, what'sgoing on? What are you like, why
can't you be a physicaltherapist or computer
programmer? Right. But I waslike, No, I mean, that's that
was my calling. I'm also a poet,my second full length
collections coming out in summerof 2023. But I spent my whole
corporate career as a writer andeditor, so editor of magazines,
(01:35):
content marketer, marketingwriter,
doing educational programs forpeople, so just a lot of
different media and marketingactually started my career in a
newsroom, like a littleterminal, you know, run out,
cover the story, run back getlike 30 minutes to bang it out.
So you know, just really likeold school journalism start. And
(01:59):
I have never wavered, stillwriter, still writer this day.
And I love it.
That is so cool. I mean, don'tyou just feel? I don't know,
sometimes I'm like, Oh, I getpaid to write, you know, I mean,
it's pretty cool. You know that,you get to actually do that for
your career. Right. Right. AndI, and I know we'll get to this
(02:23):
in a little bit. But when I wasan editor of magazines, I loved
magazines, I loved it. Butthere's something about the poll
of actually just sitting down towrite, and that feels kind of
like your authentic self. Sowhen I was able to serve my
business, and I was like, Well,I'm writing every day, I feel
like I'm being totallyauthentically myself, and kind
of what I was put here to do. Soit is really cool. We'll say,
(02:45):
Hey, I write all day, and I makemoney doing it.
So tell us about how strandwriting services came about. And
then we'll get to the meat ofour discussion, which I'm so
excited for. But tell us alittle about your company. Yeah.
So I call myself or I did callmyself an accidental
(03:07):
entrepreneur. I was one of thesepeople. I had a great career as
a publishing executive makingsix figures. I was like, I'm
gonna do this forever until Iretire, you know? And, you know,
like most people, I would say,Oh, well, if I wasn't doing
this, I would launch a business,right? Like a lot of people say
that. And then five years ago,and 2017, I was downsized, it
(03:28):
came out of the blue, because itwas not about performance. It
was just financial, you know,how things go in, in media and
marketing? And it was like, Oh,my gosh, you know, um, you know,
now what do I do? I was therefor 11 years. And so I started
looking for jobs. And then toadd insult to injury, I didn't
get any job offers. And I'mlike, you know, Phil, you know?
(03:49):
So then I said, maybe this isthe time to launch a business.
So you don't know like, if yougot a group of people, and
you're trying to decide what toeat for dinner? Or what color to
paint the room. There's alwayssomebody who's like, No, I don't
want Chinese food. No, I don'tlike this yellow. I told, you
know, multiple people in my lifethinking about starting a
business and like 100% They weretotally supportive. I said, You
know what, this is the time. SoI was in Philadelphia, I had
(04:11):
gone my last ever job interview.
And I said, you know, this islike a really cool potential
job, which I didn't get, by theway, but it was a potential job
that like five years earlier, itwould have been my dream job.
And I said that this is a pointin time when it's either sink or
swim, go for it. So I just said,I'm not doing any more job
interviews, I'm just jumping in,you know, full throttle, and I'm
gonna do but, and I did and Ididn't look back and then since
(04:32):
then, I've had companies offeredme full time jobs, but at the
time that I was like, I gottamake money right now. Like, you
know, no money is coming in. Ididn't get anything and so it
was like really the journey likepush that I needed to just go
all in and like one other quickside note was my magazines. Were
read by small business owner. SoI almost got like a crash course
(04:52):
and running a business and kindof got bitten by that
entrepreneurial bug during thattime. And so I think it kind of
preparedaremy for what? Like the risks
and the rewards, and I think itwas kind of primed to really see
if it didn't work for me.
Yeah, isn't it funny how thosethings work out? You know, like,
kind of throws you into thesesituations? And you're like,
(05:14):
Yeah, I'm at a crossroads, whatshould I do now?
So, I want to talk to you,there's a few things I want to
talk to you about. But let's getdown to business. So you have
scaled your business into amulti six figure business, which
is just incredible. And, youknow, the vast majority of the
audience of this podcast willall entrepreneurs in various
(05:37):
stages of their businesses,right, so let's talk about your,
your tips on like, you know,there's a lot of people who are
they're building their business,they want to get to where you
are.
What tips do you have forpeople, you know, what insight
can you share as far as buildingyour own business to scale to a
multi six figure business? Yeah,so one quick note, my first
(05:58):
month in business, I made$1,500. And that was in January.
And I was like, okay, like, Am Imaking six figures in my
corporate job? My first goal wasjust replacing in common, I
think it's like, what is thatnumber 8600, something, whatever
it is a month into you, if youdo that monthly, you're at 60 or
so by April of that seems tolike four months later, I'd hit
that number. And I have nevergone below it since then, I was
(06:20):
literally like, I'm notavailable to make less than this
ever, ever, ever. And that hasbeen true. It's always been that
or a lot more.
Yeah, so I wrote down a bunch oftips. I think the first thing is
cash flow.
I only accept payments 100%.
upfront. And I know, there's alot of writers and they're
(06:42):
working for, you know, they'reworking with publications, and
they're like, well, thepublications don't pay me two
months later. And I've my adviceis stop working with them. For
me, since my since I'm asolopreneur. And I have some
contractors and the cash comingin as my salary, there can be no
backup, I have to pay, you know,people that I hired to pay my
(07:05):
business expenses. And this ismy salary. So by switching to
100%, upfront payment, no ifs,ands, or buts, it completely
transformed the cash flow of mybusiness. And I understand
there's gonna be people outthere who say, but but nobody.
And that's cool. Like, if you'renot doing that, right now, you
can start the next prospect youtalk to tell them, that's how
(07:25):
you work, you're going to havethat bridge of time, it could be
six months before you get there.
But we're in a society where wepay for everything upfront. And
we're okay with that. Businessesare trying to protect their cash
flow, of course, by paying youafter the fact. But I look at it
as I'm creating custom worksthat are for a client. And so
I'm not going to start workingon it until I get paid. So it's
(07:47):
literally just changing yourpolicies, and changing your
mindset. And you can say, oh,but but I'm going to lose
clients, I mean, you might sowhat, you know, you can have
that transition, if you'reworking with clients who pay you
a certain way, you can continueworking with them. So you have
money coming in. But as youtransition, you know, that can
be your new way of working withpeople. And you will get to the
(08:10):
point where you're doing that100% of the time. And I think
that's really important. I thinka lot of you know, I always
think, oh, that that's kind of asilly tip, everyone's doing it,
but they're not. A lot of peopleare not doing that. And
especially with product basedbusinesses, if you have to
outlay the money for theproducts and the labor, and you
know, especially if they'recustom creations, you know,
(08:32):
you're acting like a bank, andyou shouldn't be so I think
that's like, number one, just toget that cash flow really clean
and coming in.
Yeah, I 100% agree with that. Ihave started doing that as well.
You know, if they want to bookeven any of my time, or for
projects, it's all upfront. 100%And so, and you're right,
(08:55):
listen, it's like, you know, youdon't want to come from this
mindset of, you know, you wantto come from an abundance,
mindset of abundance, right? Soif you're just scared that
you're gonna lose clientsbecause of this. So it's like,
Well, do you want those clientslike, you know, like, you may
lose a client or two, becausethat's not the way that they
want to work with you. However,you're also going to gain really
strong clients that do and thenyou're, you're you're cutting
(09:18):
out that risk of not being paidat all, or super late so I Yeah,
100% agree with that. It's like,great.
And I think the second thing andI think this plagues
entrepreneurs and alike happensthroughout you know, this is
your baby, like your yourbusiness, right? And I was
(09:40):
working with a business coachearly on, and I was like,
telling her all these things islike volume though regards to
the and then she's like, okay,the good news is you have one
problem, like that's just oneproblem. The bad news is it's a
big problem to solve. Theproblem is you're not acting
like a CEO. You're not comingfrom a mindset of confidence.
You're all over the place. Youdon't own what's happened.
thing, you know, and that tookme a little bit to figure out,
(10:03):
right? Because it's like, wellact as if act as if you're the
CEO or like, what does thatmean? It's like, if you're
trying to lose weight or get inshape, it's like, well act as if
act as if you've lost the 40pounds. Well, what does that
mean? Well, it means youprioritize self care, you
prioritize working out, you eatclean, most of the time you plan
your cheat meal, so you act asif so if you want to lose the 40
pounds, just start doing that.
So as a CEO, you know, there's awhole gamut of things, but I
(10:26):
mean, it runs from, okay, I'mthe CEO, and I'm sitting down to
answer Help Desk emails, becauseI'm avoiding figuring out how to
grow my business, you know, sothen in that case, do you need
to outsource you need to hiresomeone to help you with that,
too. And then this is like, Ithink this is like the core of
that. And it kind of leads intomy second point is, I've been in
(10:48):
a lot of Facebook groups. Andpeople will say, they'll call
their clients, their bosses,their managers, they'll say,
This is what my clients aredoing to me, they're not doing
anything to you. You'reembracing a victim mode, you're
embracing an employee mode, andyou're accepting this, you're,
you're existing in a place ofchaos, where you don't need to
be like, do we tell ourselvesthat this is how it has to be
(11:11):
that it has to be hard, I don'tknow. But it's in the mindset
of, you're the architect of yourbusiness. Nothing is happening
to you. I mean, it is, you know,things are happening to you. But
you can change it in an instant,you can be accountable, you can
create the reality that you'reoperating in. Right? And that
goes to, you know, peoplesaying, well,
(11:33):
I really bad at writingarticles, but that's what people
want, and I hate doing. Sothat's all I'm gonna do? Well,
no, you should probably be doingsomething that you're good at,
and you maybe even like doingand you can charge a lot of
money formy next point was sort of like,
people complain about theirclients, well, that's on you,
like, you're the one workingwith these clients. So it's
(11:54):
like, what you can do, insteadof answering helpdesk emails,
you know, you can add your adand do it. And you can say, and
this was a huge turning pointfor me to
Who do I really want to workwith? Like, what, what are the
qualities of these people? How,what are their temperaments?
Where are their personalities?
How do they work with me? Youknow, some people love meetings,
(12:14):
I hate.
I hate meetings, I'm really Iwant to be in the weeds working.
So I have to really think about,you know, one, what are the
qualities of the people? Andthen how do I want to work with
them. And then I set up mycontracts with these boundaries
of how it works. So I havemeetings, maybe one or two days
(12:36):
a week in blocks, so that I canmeet with clients. And nobody
ever calls me on my phone, theyused to call me on my phone and
be in the gym. And I was like,I'm not doing this anymore. And
I just decided, I'm going totell my clients, don't call me
ever, if you want to talk to me,email me, email me, my business
manager, and we'll get youhooked up with a time. I think
(12:57):
it's like, once you come to thismoment of like, I'm in control,
I am in charge. And I'm the onlyone to blame
when things aren't going theright way. And I mean, if
something is not going well, andyou continue to let it happen,
it's on you. So but then at thesame time, you have the power to
(13:17):
change it almost instantly. Youknow, and so I think it's it's
taking accountability andrealizing that this is your
business, like you need to setthe tone and set the direction.
And once you come from a placeof empowerment, like I'm the
expert, I'm in control, I knowwhat's going on, it changes that
you're not sitting or lying.
subscribed for Chris Christmas,and this horrible boss of mine
(13:38):
is going to be sending me 15blogs, right? I mean, I'd be
like, why are you even in thisscenario? You're not an
employee? Right. So I mean, Ithink it's really coming to that
mindset shift of going into CEOmode and being accountable. You
know, I think that's the biggestshift you can make as a business
owner, I think when you'restarting out, yeah. And I, I
(14:01):
think that it's a struggle for alot of people, right, because
they're coming from a lot ofpeople are coming from a
corporate environment or they'reused to being the employee.
Yeah. So they start their ownbusiness. And then it's almost
like, they just keep on withthat role as if they are the
employee. And they're like,well, now I have 10 bosses
instead of one. What did I do?
(14:22):
Well, what you did was yourecreated the situation you had,
right, but yeah, with your ownbusiness that I think you said,
you know, the word power. Thatis it. It's like when to create
your own business, you do havethe power and you need to
embrace that and create theculture that you want in your
business that no one's going todo it for you. And so you have
(14:43):
to be the CEO like you said, andnot the employee.
Yeah, and I think kind of like,piggybacking on that is when I
get on, I talked to this thisone, he's like a, like a coach
for screen printers. And he saysHe had said to me, I talked to a
lot of people and I reject anypercent of them as my clients is
like, Can you recognize who is apotential client for you? So for
(15:07):
me, if I get on a call withsomebody, and they start asking
me for hourly rates, and theystart asking you to track time,
and they start, like, there'salready this weird imbalance of
power, the way that I show up ona call, as I'm a super
professional copywriter, andcontent creator, I don't show up
for you to ask me hourly rates,like I come to listen to your
(15:27):
issues and what your problemsare. And I'm here to prescribe,
like what I think is going tosolve your problems. So if
you're talking to me abouthourly rates and tracking time,
you are looking for someonewho's not me, probably looking
for more junior level person,and I have no problem telling
them that. And it's a cordialconversation. And I think that's
the thing too, I think that youneed to show up with, you know,
(15:47):
knowledge of what you do, youneed to understand your process,
you need to be able toarticulate that you need to be
able to look at their issues andtheir goals and prescribe what's
going to solve their problems.
That's how you show up as anexpert. That's how you make more
money. If you're just an ordertaker, like, Oh, you want five
blogs, okay, yes, I could dothat. I'll track my time. I
(16:08):
mean, you're, you're at adifferent level, there's nothing
wrong with being at that level,because, like, I was doing this
for 20 years, on the job. So Iwas ready to step in, you know,
you might be newer, and youmight have to build a portfolio
or whatever, and that's fine.
And but it's to build up to thatlevel of expertise. I think that
you know, that's, that'srequired.
(16:36):
Yeah, and I'm wondering like,what, what kind of pricing
structure structures do youtypically work with? Like, do
you do retainers or you domostly like, you know, a package
deal? Like what how typically,do you structure it? Yeah, I
actually do two differentthings. And that's actually
another one of my points how toscale the fastest and most
(16:56):
sustainably is retainers. And,for people who don't know, a
retainer is where a company paysyou a set amount of money for a
month, and you do certainthings, it could be a certain
number of hours, a certainnumber of deliverables, but it's
a recurring arrangement. Andwhen I started, I was doing
(17:17):
three month retainers, which Iquickly realized, were not the
most beneficial, because monthone, you're kind of onboarding
the client learning each otherand wearing the work month two,
you're like, ooh, sittingpretty. And then by Month three,
you're like sweating and going,are they going to renew? So I
opted to six month retainers andyear long retainers with, of
course, a 30 day out for eitherparty and the contract. So it's
really like a no risksituation for them. And so for
(17:38):
the past two to three years,I've had five to six retainer a
month, the retainer, for meusually ranges from like 2000 to
5000 a month, depending.
You know, for people who haven'tdone this, companies are really
willing and excited to talkabout retainers, because they're
not paying your benefits.
They're not giving you anoffice, you know, you're paying
(18:00):
your own taxes. And so for theprice of what might be a super
entry level employee, they'regetting someone who has a
1015 20 years of experience, andthey're also not training you,
you know, you're usually readyto hit the ground running. So I
found that retainers work reallywell. What I usually do is I get
on the phone with a client, andthey're like, Hey, this is what
(18:22):
I'm looking to do. And I askedthem what their their budget is.
And generally, I'll give them abetter price than if it was
just, you know, one project andthat sweet spot of that two to
$5,000. I feel like it's easyfor them to pay. And they're
usually willing to sign onpretty quickly. I do one off
projects as well, you know,where somebody might say, I need
(18:45):
a website rewrite. And I needto, you know, to email
sequences, and I need a brandvoice guide. But I typically
also will start about 5k forprojects like that, because I do
a very deep, you know, researchand upfront kind of messaging,
deep dive and I explain all thatto them, too. I say, here's how
I work. Here's the whole processthat I go through. I'm not just
(19:06):
another writer, this is how itworks. I'm not just you know,
pulling messages on the air, I'mtalking to your clients and
doing all this stuff. And when Ikind of explained to them the
whole package deal about mywhole process and everything
like that, they're usuallywilling to sign on. One other
thing I wanted to mentionwith this, when I started, I
didn't have a ton of confidence,right? So at one point in time,
(19:30):
everybody was asking me for testprojects, which for someone with
20 years of experience and ahuge portfolio, I shouldn't be
doing that. But I was doingthat. And I was getting into you
know, all of these differentcompanies and it was a huge
waste of time for me. And thatwas another thing where if
somebody is like, Hey, do youwork hourly? I'm like, No. Do
you do test projects? No,because you can look at my
(19:52):
website. You can look at anynumber of samples you can like
testimonials and I think that'sagain, like you'll go to a
doctor's it will comeYou do a test project, you don't
call a plumber and say, Can youdo a test? So I think that's the
other thing as well, that whenyou show up as the expert
prescribing what they need, youknow, here's my whole process.
No, I don't do test projects,it's easier to ask for a
retainer, and they'll pay you upfront. But the retainers are the
(20:14):
quickest way to get that setincome. So you're not sweating
every month, like, oh, I need anew project every single month.
So I really just the base of mybusiness is retainers. And then
I do want off projects as theycome in. And as I want to do
something, which is an extraincome.
(20:35):
Okay, yeah, that makes totalsense. You're speaking my
language sister. And so andwhere do you find your clients?
Like, how do you build up yourpipeline? Yeah, so people talk
about niching. And specializing.
So I did have the dej, which isdecorated apparel, so any
apparel that people put logos onembroidery screen printing, so
that was the the market that Iwas at, and so I did deep
(20:58):
knowledge in there, which Ithink, you know, if you do have
a niche, right, and you have aspecial product knowledge, or
you have a career in anindustry, like construction, or
you know, real estate orwhatever, and you have that
knowledge, you're also a writer,that is a good place to start,
because it's hard to find goodwriters who also are subject
matter experts. So that's one,one thing I'm gonna get my
(21:18):
pitching thing is I gotta justwant to say this, and then
specializing, some people willsay, Well, I just do blogs, I
kind of do everything because Ihave such a varied, but you
know, some people might say, Ijust write websites, or real
estate agents, I just write, youknow, sales pages for online
coaches. So like, that's oneplace to sort of, like, if you
(21:39):
niche and you specialize, you doboth, you can kind of become an
expert in that area. And thenyou become a name. But when I
started, I cold pitched, I useLinkedIn. And I would just email
people. And I found that, youknow, it's a numbers game. Like
sometimes I could send twoemails, and within 15 minutes,
they're both like, I want totalk to you. Other times, I
(22:00):
might send 40 emails whenthere's no response. But to me,
I don't want to be in Upwork. Idon't want to be on Fiverr. I
don't want to be applying forjobs. I don't even want that
vibe, right? So I'm showing upsaying, Hey, your company is
interesting to me. Here'ssomething maybe I can offer for
you. And if they liked thepitch, because a lot of times
people would say I get hundredsof pitches, and you're Zeeland
(22:21):
when I responded to because Ilike said something to me. I've
already given them the test.
I've already shown them what mywriting can do if it gets them
to call me or to respond to me.
I've already shown them how itworks. And I'm the one. The one
thing that I would stumble overwhen I first started was like, I
need to mind read and you lookat this website and know what
(22:41):
they need. No, you really don'tyou can propose something. What
if your pitch is really good,and I like well, this person is
proposing locks, but I reallyneed someone to do email
copywriting, they're still goingto email you, they're still
going to respond if they likeyour pitch. And it's timely,
there's something about the vibethat they like they will respond
to, you know, the mind readexactly what they need.
(23:04):
But I but I use LinkedIn,LinkedIn is very powerful for
connecting with people one onone, and then also sending cold
emails. I mean, it does requiresome dedication, but I found
that by year, three, four, orfive, and especially now with
five, I get referrals all thetime, people find me they find
my website, and I don't reallydo any, I haven't done any
(23:26):
patient in like a year at thispoint.
So I feel like it's acompounding effect, you know
that that a certain point, youdon't necessarily have to do it
as accurately but you know, ifI'm looking for clients, I do
then go back to that, you know,the emails, the LinkedIn, and I
generally can find people veryquickly.
(23:46):
Yeah, LinkedIn can really be atreasure trove and and it's
great too, because you can learnmore about the person so you can
kind of really personalize youroutreach as well. So it comes
across as a conversation, right?
Rather than you just kind ofblasting your promotions. at
them. It's actually aconversation with them. So yeah,
I agree people should take adeeper look at LinkedIn. Is
(24:06):
there other tools or processesthat, you know, have changed
your business for the betterthat you'd want to mention to
the audience? Um, I use GoogleCalendar.
And this is gonna sound likesort of, you know, but have you
heard of people saying, like,oh, I, I don't know I like Ben
(24:28):
time or I like quantum leap timeor something like I don't know,
I didn't see some coaches doingthat. But like, the thing is
about creative businesses andtime is that your work can
stretch to fill the time like ifI need to write in about page,
it could take me eight hours ifI'm not in the right headspace,
but it could also take me anhour, right. And so one of the
(24:49):
biggest challenges with havingsix retainers and extra projects
was figuring out time. So I hirea business manager and she does
As all things with my calendar,she creates my calendar, she
puts everything in there. Butwe're always talking about how
to use time. We have tried,like, do we do one client a day?
(25:10):
Do we put two clients in a day?
Do we, you know, we've brokendown the processes. So like, for
example, say I have eightarticles that I need to write
for December. So when November,she's already blocked off time
where it's like, startresearching, you know, ask your
research assistant to startreaching out to sources start
putting things and we calendarit out. And we play with time,
(25:33):
we say like, how can we get themost? How can we get the most
done at least amount of time.
And then four times this year, Ithink I was able to get all my
month's work done in two weeks.
So I literally had no work fortwo months, or sorry, for two
weeks out of the month. And so Ithink for me, you got to think
(25:53):
to yourself, they're not payingyou for your blood, sweat and
tears, who cares how many hoursit took you nobody cares? If
you're under a table crying atthree in the morning, nobody
cares. They just want the theyou know, they just want
the result. So how can you makethe most money in the least time
with giving them the most value?
And I think, you know, playingwith that and understanding that
(26:14):
as a creative. It's going tochange over time. And you have
to be flexible with it. But Ithink that's been the biggest
awareness for me of really usingthe calendar and saying, how
many hours are you actuallyworking. And I think it makes
sense to kind of track your timeto really see if you're working
way too many hours, you mightneed to make a change. Like I
said earlier, if you are doingwork that is taking way too
(26:38):
long, you may need to switch toa different type of work that
takes you less time where youcan still make the same money.
And I think that's kind of keyto look at. And measure.
Yeah, I agree. Like timeblocking the calendar is huge.
Like when I when you're notdoing that. I feel like you can
flounder a lot. And a lot ofthings can fall through the
(26:58):
cracks too. You know, you couldhave things that you forget to
do and you know, and then you'retight to a dead deadline. You're
like, oh, no, that never made iton my calendars. It didn't get
done. So yeah, I 100% agree withthat is there you're busy right
you have the five retainers,you're growing this, you know
credible business? Are theirdaily routines that kind of help
(27:21):
with your your business andpersonal success at some people
work out meditate, journal, isthere anything that you kind of
throw in there? Yeah, I work outevery day. That's basically non
negotiable. There was one timewhen I didn't and I realized I
was really because I'd besitting all day and it was like
being too cerebral. And I itwasn't I needed balance. The
other thing that I do isgratitude. Because I think you
(27:46):
know, sometimes when we likewhat is what is the cute, like,
what is the place that youstarted out. So I started for
freedom, it wasn't about themoney. When I started about
freedom, I have two kids, theywere seven and
four when I was seven and threewhen I started. And part of my
goal was like I wanted to beable to be there with them. And
(28:07):
so I think the gratitude and thething about what I'm what I've
been able to provide for them,the lifestyle that I've been
able to create, you know, thebalance, I think, like coming
back to that place of gratitudemakes the hard part's easier, I
think visualization to is reallyimportant. Like, where are you
want your business to be at?
It's like, in the beginning, Iwould even like just go through
(28:27):
like, what do I want my workoutand feel like what do I want?
You know, like and I reallytried to visualize everything's,
you don't even know the how yousee it, you know, like, what do
I want the results being kind oflike the next steps will show up
for you.
And I think I haven't donevisualization as much lately,
because I've been kind of in aplace where I've been feeling
(28:48):
good about things. But when I doget to a point, I really just I
really visualize everything thatI can, because then it starts
bringing me into that as myreality. And then I started kind
of acting as ifso I think I think right, when
you work at home, it's easy toget an A ride and stuff like
that. So I think just for me,the movement, the gratitude, you
(29:09):
know, even just like I don'thave a commute, um, and the
visualization of this is where Iwant to be next month, you know,
even that two weeks, free in themonth, that was something I
started visualizing thebeginning of this year. And then
you know, I got to do it fourtimes, which is amazing. Because
during level of work that Ihave, so volume of work.
(29:36):
Yeah, and speaking ofvisualization, like where, where
do you see your business, butwhat are the goals? And what is
the vision for your business asyou continue? I mean, I keep
raising the monthly income goalthat I have. And it's it's kind
of coming up with ways that Ican do that. I mean, I, I do my
own writing because that's whatI'm selling. I'm selling my
(29:57):
creativity and my intellectualproperty. I didn't want to
In an agency where I have otherpeople doing that, so it's like
I have a finite capacity. And soI think that what I try to do is
I think about, like, what arepackages that people will pay
for, you know, how can I addmore value to something without
necessarily adding a ton morework to myself so that I can,
you know, raise rates, and it'sjust as I go to when I get more
(30:19):
experience and moretestimonials, and you know, more
referrals than I can keep doingthat. And so I think, for
myself, I'm in a good spot. Uh,one thing that I was gonna
mention, if I did real quick,a trap that a lot of
entrepreneurs, including myselffall into is they think they
have to do all the things. Andthey have to follow all the
gurus and all the leaders,right, I had a coach at one
(30:40):
time, that's like, okay, Nicole,you and Facebook group need to
email list, you need a course,you need
lead magnets, you need an emaillist, like, and I'm like my
head, you need to be on all thepodcast. And I was like,
freaking out, I was trying to doall have things. And then I
realized, that's how you keepgetting sucked into new courses.
And I had paid a lot for thisone course. And I was like, I
(31:02):
don't want to be selling in theDMS, what am I doing. And it
really, I came back to a place Ihad to just like sit with it.
And I said, here's the deal. Thegoal, being entrepreneur isn't
easy, and everybody wants to doit. But the way that you become
an entrepreneur is like goinginside yourself and finding your
own path. Nobody can tell youyour path you need, you can find
someone to help you when youknow it, but you need to do it.
(31:23):
So what is true for you, Nicole,and what's true for me is I
didn't want a Facebook group, Ididn't want an email list. I
didn't want courses, I didn'twant lead magnets. I didn't want
to be out there like pitching Ijust wanted to write. And I just
wanted to get like high ticketpremium clients. And when I
honed in on that everything fellinto place. And I knew what I
(31:45):
had to do. And I was able tosustain my business and I
stopped chasing all the shinyobjects.
You know, and I find that thereare people who are in perpetual
coaching mode, I need a coach, Ineed a coach, you need a course,
no, the problem is you need tosit down and like find your own
courseand vision for your business and
then figure out what resourcesyou need when you know you want
(32:07):
to move to that next level. AndI think that is what gave me the
most peace of mind knowing thatit's okay that I don't have a
Facebook group. It's okay that Idon't have an email list. Some
people only want to sell to anemail list. And that's cool.
That's just not me. So I thinkwhen you you really have to
understand your identity as aperson as an entrepreneur and
(32:27):
what feels good for you. Andthat's when you flourish, I
think.
Yeah, 100%, there's so manyoptions out there to grow your
business, which is great,because then you have so many
options to figure out what'sright for you. The problem is,
is when you think you have to doall of them, you know, and I
think most of us have fallen forthat. For sure. I have two more
(32:52):
quick questions. But before I dothat, is there anything else
that you have so much greatknowledge and insight that
you're sharing? Is thereanything else that you wanted to
share? Before we wrap it up? Ithink the one other thing is
here's looking at my notes here.
There was something real quick,something like one second here.
(33:16):
Down here, okay. I just thoughtthat, um, being an entrepreneur
is not for the faint of heart,okay? Like it's not, it's easier
to launch a business because Igot my computer and I'm sitting
at home, right? I don't have Idon't have a brick and mortar
location, I don't haveemployees, I don't need serve
capital to, you know, procure aproduct or make product or any
(33:36):
of that. So it's really easy tostart. So a lot of people are
doing it, but they're not.
They're good at what they do.
But they're not necessarily goodat running a business. And I
think that what people have torealize that there's a lot of
risk, but there's a lot ofreward, right? So you have to be
prepared to fail over and overand not look at as failing, but
just like, Okay, I'm just gonnakeep doing it until I get to the
point. So for me failure wasthat like, ultimate failure was
(33:59):
not an option. I was like, I'mnever gonna have a boss again.
And I think, you know, you haveto be really strong inside
yourself. And this is wherelike, you know, a coach or
masterminds can help. If you'restarting out or to work your
problems as a business owner,you know, to kind of get support
from other people who are doingwhat you're doing. But I would
say yes, there are some bigrisks, but the rewards are huge,
(34:19):
like the financial rewards, andthe money that you can make far
can outweigh what you do in ajob and that can provide
wonderful opportunities for youand for your family. And I would
say it's just when you'rethinking about becoming an
entrepreneur, just remember thatthere's two parts there's the
part of like you're good at whatyou do is you have to be a good
writer, you have to, you know,if that's what you're doing, you
have to be able to deliver whatyou say or to deliver but you
(34:42):
also need to know how to run abusiness and run it like that,
you know? And so there might belike, where are you maybe
lacking I need more training andwriting I need more training and
how to run a business. I thinkthat those are important things
to think about. When you'restarting out, you know and find
find resourcesand help to kind of like, get us
to that next level.
(35:05):
Yeah, for sure. And what I loveabout what you've shared today
is that it can be leveraged foracross industries, like you
don't have to be a copywriter.
You don't have to be a writer toimplement, you know, these kind
of tactics that you've sharedtoday. So I think that that's,
that's awesome, super helpfulfor the audience. Where can
people find you online? They canvisit me at strand writing
(35:25):
services.com.
Awesome. We'll direct peoplethere. And my last question,
this is kind of a fun one thatwe, that we ask is, if you could
only listen to one music artistsfor the rest of your life, who
would it be? And that's, that'stough. I'm gonna go with Guns
(35:47):
and Roses.
That's awesome. I'm from NewJersey. All right, I drive a
couple of muscle cars. So, youknow, that's what we're doing on
the weekends. And that's top ofmy playlist I get there. I got a
lot of favorites with music. Butthat was left kind of the first
one that came to mind. And Ithink it's, I think it's a good
(36:08):
one.
I love it. I don't think thatwe've had the answers. And so
what we do is I've created aplaylist on Spotify, but
entrepreneurial playlist. That'slike, what everybody has said,
over the years, so I'll go theresidence for a share. That's
awesome. Nicole, thank you somuch for taking the time. I've
(36:29):
really enjoyed our conversationtoday. Yeah, no, I love taking
the time to talkentrepreneurship. I could talk
about it all day. Honestly, it'slike, so exciting to me, just as
exciting as the day I started.
And I think that's, you know,that's kind of how you know that
you want to be an entrepreneurbecause it's just, it's like,
always exciting.
(36:50):
Yeah, as always, there's younever know what's gonna happen
next. So, right and that and Ilove that too. I, you know, we
talked about risk, but you haveto kind of be somebody that's
open to changes and stuff justhappening and I love that, like,
been a roller coaster, you know?
Yeah.
You never know what's gonnahappen. Yeah. Thanks again,
(37:10):
Nicole.
Thanks for tuning into the SmallBusiness Big mindset podcast. To
keep the fun going. Check outour Facebook group start and
scale an online business Foreven more free trainings and
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(37:31):
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be authentic bringing insaneamount of value and keep
crushing it
Welcome to the Small Business Big mindset podcast,
where we dive into tacticalstrategies to grow your
business. And to make an impacton this world. A huge part of
success is keeping your mindsetand vision on track. So this is
a major part of our process. Andthis podcast. Let's do this
(00:25):
Hey, everybody, welcome to theSmall Business Big mindset
podcast today I have NicoleWallander, owner and chief
copywriter at strand writingServices. Welcome, Nicole. Thank
you so much for having me.
Excited to be here excited totalk to a fellow copywriter. I
always love it.
(00:47):
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself. Where are you based?
How did you get started a littlebit about your background? Yeah,
so I'm in New Jersey have livedhere my whole life. And I'm one
of those people you mightrelate. I always knew I was
going to be a writer. I wasfour. And I was like, I'm going
to be a writer, mom and dad.
That's what I'm going to do. AndI went to college. And then I
(01:11):
went to graduate school and Igot my MFA in creative writing.
And my parents were like, what'sgoing on? What are you like, why
can't you be a physicaltherapist or computer
programmer? Right. But I waslike, No, I mean, that's that
was my calling. I'm also a poet,my second full length
collections coming out in summerof 2023. But I spent my whole
corporate career as a writer andeditor, so editor of magazines,
(01:35):
content marketer, marketingwriter,
doing educational programs forpeople, so just a lot of
different media and marketingactually started my career in a
newsroom, like a littleterminal, you know, run out,
cover the story, run back getlike 30 minutes to bang it out.
So you know, just really likeold school journalism start. And
(01:59):
I have never wavered, stillwriter, still writer this day.
And I love it.
That is so cool. I mean, don'tyou just feel? I don't know,
sometimes I'm like, Oh, I getpaid to write, you know, I mean,
it's pretty cool. You know that,you get to actually do that for
your career. Right. Right. AndI, and I know we'll get to this
(02:23):
in a little bit. But when I wasan editor of magazines, I loved
magazines, I loved it. Butthere's something about the poll
of actually just sitting down towrite, and that feels kind of
like your authentic self. Sowhen I was able to serve my
business, and I was like, Well,I'm writing every day, I feel
like I'm being totallyauthentically myself, and kind
of what I was put here to do. Soit is really cool. We'll say,
(02:45):
Hey, I write all day, and I makemoney doing it.
So tell us about how strandwriting services came about. And
then we'll get to the meat ofour discussion, which I'm so
excited for. But tell us alittle about your company. Yeah.
So I call myself or I did callmyself an accidental
(03:07):
entrepreneur. I was one of thesepeople. I had a great career as
a publishing executive makingsix figures. I was like, I'm
gonna do this forever until Iretire, you know? And, you know,
like most people, I would say,Oh, well, if I wasn't doing
this, I would launch a business,right? Like a lot of people say
that. And then five years ago,and 2017, I was downsized, it
(03:28):
came out of the blue, because itwas not about performance. It
was just financial, you know,how things go in, in media and
marketing? And it was like, Oh,my gosh, you know, um, you know,
now what do I do? I was therefor 11 years. And so I started
looking for jobs. And then toadd insult to injury, I didn't
get any job offers. And I'mlike, you know, Phil, you know?
(03:49):
So then I said, maybe this isthe time to launch a business.
So you don't know like, if yougot a group of people, and
you're trying to decide what toeat for dinner? Or what color to
paint the room. There's alwayssomebody who's like, No, I don't
want Chinese food. No, I don'tlike this yellow. I told, you
know, multiple people in my lifethinking about starting a
business and like 100% They weretotally supportive. I said, You
know what, this is the time. SoI was in Philadelphia, I had
(04:11):
gone my last ever job interview.
And I said, you know, this islike a really cool potential
job, which I didn't get, by theway, but it was a potential job
that like five years earlier, itwould have been my dream job.
And I said that this is a pointin time when it's either sink or
swim, go for it. So I just said,I'm not doing any more job
interviews, I'm just jumping in,you know, full throttle, and I'm
gonna do but, and I did and Ididn't look back and then since
(04:32):
then, I've had companies offeredme full time jobs, but at the
time that I was like, I gottamake money right now. Like, you
know, no money is coming in. Ididn't get anything and so it
was like really the journey likepush that I needed to just go
all in and like one other quickside note was my magazines. Were
read by small business owner. SoI almost got like a crash course
(04:52):
and running a business and kindof got bitten by that
entrepreneurial bug during thattime. And so I think it kind of
preparedaremy for what? Like the risks
and the rewards, and I think itwas kind of primed to really see
if it didn't work for me.
Yeah, isn't it funny how thosethings work out? You know, like,
kind of throws you into thesesituations? And you're like,
(05:14):
Yeah, I'm at a crossroads, whatshould I do now?
So, I want to talk to you,there's a few things I want to
talk to you about. But let's getdown to business. So you have
scaled your business into amulti six figure business, which
is just incredible. And, youknow, the vast majority of the
audience of this podcast willall entrepreneurs in various
(05:37):
stages of their businesses,right, so let's talk about your,
your tips on like, you know,there's a lot of people who are
they're building their business,they want to get to where you
are.
What tips do you have forpeople, you know, what insight
can you share as far as buildingyour own business to scale to a
multi six figure business? Yeah,so one quick note, my first
(05:58):
month in business, I made$1,500. And that was in January.
And I was like, okay, like, Am Imaking six figures in my
corporate job? My first goal wasjust replacing in common, I
think it's like, what is thatnumber 8600, something, whatever
it is a month into you, if youdo that monthly, you're at 60 or
so by April of that seems tolike four months later, I'd hit
that number. And I have nevergone below it since then, I was
(06:20):
literally like, I'm notavailable to make less than this
ever, ever, ever. And that hasbeen true. It's always been that
or a lot more.
Yeah, so I wrote down a bunch oftips. I think the first thing is
cash flow.
I only accept payments 100%.
upfront. And I know, there's alot of writers and they're
(06:42):
working for, you know, they'reworking with publications, and
they're like, well, thepublications don't pay me two
months later. And I've my adviceis stop working with them. For
me, since my since I'm asolopreneur. And I have some
contractors and the cash comingin as my salary, there can be no
backup, I have to pay, you know,people that I hired to pay my
(07:05):
business expenses. And this ismy salary. So by switching to
100%, upfront payment, no ifs,ands, or buts, it completely
transformed the cash flow of mybusiness. And I understand
there's gonna be people outthere who say, but but nobody.
And that's cool. Like, if you'renot doing that, right now, you
can start the next prospect youtalk to tell them, that's how
(07:25):
you work, you're going to havethat bridge of time, it could be
six months before you get there.
But we're in a society where wepay for everything upfront. And
we're okay with that. Businessesare trying to protect their cash
flow, of course, by paying youafter the fact. But I look at it
as I'm creating custom worksthat are for a client. And so
I'm not going to start workingon it until I get paid. So it's
(07:47):
literally just changing yourpolicies, and changing your
mindset. And you can say, oh,but but I'm going to lose
clients, I mean, you might sowhat, you know, you can have
that transition, if you'reworking with clients who pay you
a certain way, you can continueworking with them. So you have
money coming in. But as youtransition, you know, that can
be your new way of working withpeople. And you will get to the
(08:10):
point where you're doing that100% of the time. And I think
that's really important. I thinka lot of you know, I always
think, oh, that that's kind of asilly tip, everyone's doing it,
but they're not. A lot of peopleare not doing that. And
especially with product basedbusinesses, if you have to
outlay the money for theproducts and the labor, and you
know, especially if they'recustom creations, you know,
(08:32):
you're acting like a bank, andyou shouldn't be so I think
that's like, number one, just toget that cash flow really clean
and coming in.
Yeah, I 100% agree with that. Ihave started doing that as well.
You know, if they want to bookeven any of my time, or for
projects, it's all upfront. 100%And so, and you're right,
(08:55):
listen, it's like, you know, youdon't want to come from this
mindset of, you know, you wantto come from an abundance,
mindset of abundance, right? Soif you're just scared that
you're gonna lose clientsbecause of this. So it's like,
Well, do you want those clientslike, you know, like, you may
lose a client or two, becausethat's not the way that they
want to work with you. However,you're also going to gain really
strong clients that do and thenyou're, you're you're cutting
(09:18):
out that risk of not being paidat all, or super late so I Yeah,
100% agree with that. It's like,great.
And I think the second thing andI think this plagues
entrepreneurs and alike happensthroughout you know, this is
your baby, like your yourbusiness, right? And I was
(09:40):
working with a business coachearly on, and I was like,
telling her all these things islike volume though regards to
the and then she's like, okay,the good news is you have one
problem, like that's just oneproblem. The bad news is it's a
big problem to solve. Theproblem is you're not acting
like a CEO. You're not comingfrom a mindset of confidence.
You're all over the place. Youdon't own what's happened.
thing, you know, and that tookme a little bit to figure out,
(10:03):
right? Because it's like, wellact as if act as if you're the
CEO or like, what does thatmean? It's like, if you're
trying to lose weight or get inshape, it's like, well act as if
act as if you've lost the 40pounds. Well, what does that
mean? Well, it means youprioritize self care, you
prioritize working out, you eatclean, most of the time you plan
your cheat meal, so you act asif so if you want to lose the 40
pounds, just start doing that.
So as a CEO, you know, there's awhole gamut of things, but I
(10:26):
mean, it runs from, okay, I'mthe CEO, and I'm sitting down to
answer Help Desk emails, becauseI'm avoiding figuring out how to
grow my business, you know, sothen in that case, do you need
to outsource you need to hiresomeone to help you with that,
too. And then this is like, Ithink this is like the core of
that. And it kind of leads intomy second point is, I've been in
(10:48):
a lot of Facebook groups. Andpeople will say, they'll call
their clients, their bosses,their managers, they'll say,
This is what my clients aredoing to me, they're not doing
anything to you. You'reembracing a victim mode, you're
embracing an employee mode, andyou're accepting this, you're,
you're existing in a place ofchaos, where you don't need to
be like, do we tell ourselvesthat this is how it has to be
(11:11):
that it has to be hard, I don'tknow. But it's in the mindset
of, you're the architect of yourbusiness. Nothing is happening
to you. I mean, it is, you know,things are happening to you. But
you can change it in an instant,you can be accountable, you can
create the reality that you'reoperating in. Right? And that
goes to, you know, peoplesaying, well,
(11:33):
I really bad at writingarticles, but that's what people
want, and I hate doing. Sothat's all I'm gonna do? Well,
no, you should probably be doingsomething that you're good at,
and you maybe even like doingand you can charge a lot of
money formy next point was sort of like,
people complain about theirclients, well, that's on you,
like, you're the one workingwith these clients. So it's
(11:54):
like, what you can do, insteadof answering helpdesk emails,
you know, you can add your adand do it. And you can say, and
this was a huge turning pointfor me to
Who do I really want to workwith? Like, what, what are the
qualities of these people? How,what are their temperaments?
Where are their personalities?
How do they work with me? Youknow, some people love meetings,
(12:14):
I hate.
I hate meetings, I'm really Iwant to be in the weeds working.
So I have to really think about,you know, one, what are the
qualities of the people? Andthen how do I want to work with
them. And then I set up mycontracts with these boundaries
of how it works. So I havemeetings, maybe one or two days
(12:36):
a week in blocks, so that I canmeet with clients. And nobody
ever calls me on my phone, theyused to call me on my phone and
be in the gym. And I was like,I'm not doing this anymore. And
I just decided, I'm going totell my clients, don't call me
ever, if you want to talk to me,email me, email me, my business
manager, and we'll get youhooked up with a time. I think
(12:57):
it's like, once you come to thismoment of like, I'm in control,
I am in charge. And I'm the onlyone to blame
when things aren't going theright way. And I mean, if
something is not going well, andyou continue to let it happen,
it's on you. So but then at thesame time, you have the power to
(13:17):
change it almost instantly. Youknow, and so I think it's it's
taking accountability andrealizing that this is your
business, like you need to setthe tone and set the direction.
And once you come from a placeof empowerment, like I'm the
expert, I'm in control, I knowwhat's going on, it changes that
you're not sitting or lying.
subscribed for Chris Christmas,and this horrible boss of mine
(13:38):
is going to be sending me 15blogs, right? I mean, I'd be
like, why are you even in thisscenario? You're not an
employee? Right. So I mean, Ithink it's really coming to that
mindset shift of going into CEOmode and being accountable. You
know, I think that's the biggestshift you can make as a business
owner, I think when you'restarting out, yeah. And I, I
(14:01):
think that it's a struggle for alot of people, right, because
they're coming from a lot ofpeople are coming from a
corporate environment or they'reused to being the employee.
Yeah. So they start their ownbusiness. And then it's almost
like, they just keep on withthat role as if they are the
employee. And they're like,well, now I have 10 bosses
instead of one. What did I do?
(14:22):
Well, what you did was yourecreated the situation you had,
right, but yeah, with your ownbusiness that I think you said,
you know, the word power. Thatis it. It's like when to create
your own business, you do havethe power and you need to
embrace that and create theculture that you want in your
business that no one's going todo it for you. And so you have
(14:43):
to be the CEO like you said, andnot the employee.
Yeah, and I think kind of like,piggybacking on that is when I
get on, I talked to this thisone, he's like a, like a coach
for screen printers. And he saysHe had said to me, I talked to a
lot of people and I reject anypercent of them as my clients is
like, Can you recognize who is apotential client for you? So for
(15:07):
me, if I get on a call withsomebody, and they start asking
me for hourly rates, and theystart asking you to track time,
and they start, like, there'salready this weird imbalance of
power, the way that I show up ona call, as I'm a super
professional copywriter, andcontent creator, I don't show up
for you to ask me hourly rates,like I come to listen to your
(15:27):
issues and what your problemsare. And I'm here to prescribe,
like what I think is going tosolve your problems. So if
you're talking to me abouthourly rates and tracking time,
you are looking for someonewho's not me, probably looking
for more junior level person,and I have no problem telling
them that. And it's a cordialconversation. And I think that's
the thing too, I think that youneed to show up with, you know,
(15:47):
knowledge of what you do, youneed to understand your process,
you need to be able toarticulate that you need to be
able to look at their issues andtheir goals and prescribe what's
going to solve their problems.
That's how you show up as anexpert. That's how you make more
money. If you're just an ordertaker, like, Oh, you want five
blogs, okay, yes, I could dothat. I'll track my time. I
(16:08):
mean, you're, you're at adifferent level, there's nothing
wrong with being at that level,because, like, I was doing this
for 20 years, on the job. So Iwas ready to step in, you know,
you might be newer, and youmight have to build a portfolio
or whatever, and that's fine.
And but it's to build up to thatlevel of expertise. I think that
you know, that's, that'srequired.
(16:36):
Yeah, and I'm wondering like,what, what kind of pricing
structure structures do youtypically work with? Like, do
you do retainers or you domostly like, you know, a package
deal? Like what how typically,do you structure it? Yeah, I
actually do two differentthings. And that's actually
another one of my points how toscale the fastest and most
(16:56):
sustainably is retainers. And,for people who don't know, a
retainer is where a company paysyou a set amount of money for a
month, and you do certainthings, it could be a certain
number of hours, a certainnumber of deliverables, but it's
a recurring arrangement. Andwhen I started, I was doing
(17:17):
three month retainers, which Iquickly realized, were not the
most beneficial, because monthone, you're kind of onboarding
the client learning each otherand wearing the work month two,
you're like, ooh, sittingpretty. And then by Month three,
you're like sweating and going,are they going to renew? So I
opted to six month retainers andyear long retainers with, of
course, a 30 day out for eitherparty and the contract. So it's
really like a no risksituation for them. And so for
(17:38):
the past two to three years,I've had five to six retainer a
month, the retainer, for meusually ranges from like 2000 to
5000 a month, depending.
You know, for people who haven'tdone this, companies are really
willing and excited to talkabout retainers, because they're
not paying your benefits.
They're not giving you anoffice, you know, you're paying
(18:00):
your own taxes. And so for theprice of what might be a super
entry level employee, they'regetting someone who has a
1015 20 years of experience, andthey're also not training you,
you know, you're usually readyto hit the ground running. So I
found that retainers work reallywell. What I usually do is I get
on the phone with a client, andthey're like, Hey, this is what
(18:22):
I'm looking to do. And I askedthem what their their budget is.
And generally, I'll give them abetter price than if it was
just, you know, one project andthat sweet spot of that two to
$5,000. I feel like it's easyfor them to pay. And they're
usually willing to sign onpretty quickly. I do one off
projects as well, you know,where somebody might say, I need
(18:45):
a website rewrite. And I needto, you know, to email
sequences, and I need a brandvoice guide. But I typically
also will start about 5k forprojects like that, because I do
a very deep, you know, researchand upfront kind of messaging,
deep dive and I explain all thatto them, too. I say, here's how
I work. Here's the whole processthat I go through. I'm not just
(19:06):
another writer, this is how itworks. I'm not just you know,
pulling messages on the air, I'mtalking to your clients and
doing all this stuff. And when Ikind of explained to them the
whole package deal about mywhole process and everything
like that, they're usuallywilling to sign on. One other
thing I wanted to mentionwith this, when I started, I
didn't have a ton of confidence,right? So at one point in time,
(19:30):
everybody was asking me for testprojects, which for someone with
20 years of experience and ahuge portfolio, I shouldn't be
doing that. But I was doingthat. And I was getting into you
know, all of these differentcompanies and it was a huge
waste of time for me. And thatwas another thing where if
somebody is like, Hey, do youwork hourly? I'm like, No. Do
you do test projects? No,because you can look at my
(19:52):
website. You can look at anynumber of samples you can like
testimonials and I think that'sagain, like you'll go to a
doctor's it will comeYou do a test project, you don't
call a plumber and say, Can youdo a test? So I think that's the
other thing as well, that whenyou show up as the expert
prescribing what they need, youknow, here's my whole process.
No, I don't do test projects,it's easier to ask for a
retainer, and they'll pay you upfront. But the retainers are the
(20:14):
quickest way to get that setincome. So you're not sweating
every month, like, oh, I need anew project every single month.
So I really just the base of mybusiness is retainers. And then
I do want off projects as theycome in. And as I want to do
something, which is an extraincome.
(20:35):
Okay, yeah, that makes totalsense. You're speaking my
language sister. And so andwhere do you find your clients?
Like, how do you build up yourpipeline? Yeah, so people talk
about niching. And specializing.
So I did have the dej, which isdecorated apparel, so any
apparel that people put logos onembroidery screen printing, so
that was the the market that Iwas at, and so I did deep
(20:58):
knowledge in there, which Ithink, you know, if you do have
a niche, right, and you have aspecial product knowledge, or
you have a career in anindustry, like construction, or
you know, real estate orwhatever, and you have that
knowledge, you're also a writer,that is a good place to start,
because it's hard to find goodwriters who also are subject
matter experts. So that's one,one thing I'm gonna get my
(21:18):
pitching thing is I gotta justwant to say this, and then
specializing, some people willsay, Well, I just do blogs, I
kind of do everything because Ihave such a varied, but you
know, some people might say, Ijust write websites, or real
estate agents, I just write, youknow, sales pages for online
coaches. So like, that's oneplace to sort of, like, if you
(21:39):
niche and you specialize, you doboth, you can kind of become an
expert in that area. And thenyou become a name. But when I
started, I cold pitched, I useLinkedIn. And I would just email
people. And I found that, youknow, it's a numbers game. Like
sometimes I could send twoemails, and within 15 minutes,
they're both like, I want totalk to you. Other times, I
(22:00):
might send 40 emails whenthere's no response. But to me,
I don't want to be in Upwork. Idon't want to be on Fiverr. I
don't want to be applying forjobs. I don't even want that
vibe, right? So I'm showing upsaying, Hey, your company is
interesting to me. Here'ssomething maybe I can offer for
you. And if they liked thepitch, because a lot of times
people would say I get hundredsof pitches, and you're Zeeland
(22:21):
when I responded to because Ilike said something to me. I've
already given them the test.
I've already shown them what mywriting can do if it gets them
to call me or to respond to me.
I've already shown them how itworks. And I'm the one. The one
thing that I would stumble overwhen I first started was like, I
need to mind read and you lookat this website and know what
(22:41):
they need. No, you really don'tyou can propose something. What
if your pitch is really good,and I like well, this person is
proposing locks, but I reallyneed someone to do email
copywriting, they're still goingto email you, they're still
going to respond if they likeyour pitch. And it's timely,
there's something about the vibethat they like they will respond
to, you know, the mind readexactly what they need.
(23:04):
But I but I use LinkedIn,LinkedIn is very powerful for
connecting with people one onone, and then also sending cold
emails. I mean, it does requiresome dedication, but I found
that by year, three, four, orfive, and especially now with
five, I get referrals all thetime, people find me they find
my website, and I don't reallydo any, I haven't done any
(23:26):
patient in like a year at thispoint.
So I feel like it's acompounding effect, you know
that that a certain point, youdon't necessarily have to do it
as accurately but you know, ifI'm looking for clients, I do
then go back to that, you know,the emails, the LinkedIn, and I
generally can find people veryquickly.
(23:46):
Yeah, LinkedIn can really be atreasure trove and and it's
great too, because you can learnmore about the person so you can
kind of really personalize youroutreach as well. So it comes
across as a conversation, right?
Rather than you just kind ofblasting your promotions. at
them. It's actually aconversation with them. So yeah,
I agree people should take adeeper look at LinkedIn. Is
(24:06):
there other tools or processesthat, you know, have changed
your business for the betterthat you'd want to mention to
the audience? Um, I use GoogleCalendar.
And this is gonna sound likesort of, you know, but have you
heard of people saying, like,oh, I, I don't know I like Ben
(24:28):
time or I like quantum leap timeor something like I don't know,
I didn't see some coaches doingthat. But like, the thing is
about creative businesses andtime is that your work can
stretch to fill the time like ifI need to write in about page,
it could take me eight hours ifI'm not in the right headspace,
but it could also take me anhour, right. And so one of the
(24:49):
biggest challenges with havingsix retainers and extra projects
was figuring out time. So I hirea business manager and she does
As all things with my calendar,she creates my calendar, she
puts everything in there. Butwe're always talking about how
to use time. We have tried,like, do we do one client a day?
(25:10):
Do we put two clients in a day?
Do we, you know, we've brokendown the processes. So like, for
example, say I have eightarticles that I need to write
for December. So when November,she's already blocked off time
where it's like, startresearching, you know, ask your
research assistant to startreaching out to sources start
putting things and we calendarit out. And we play with time,
(25:33):
we say like, how can we get themost? How can we get the most
done at least amount of time.
And then four times this year, Ithink I was able to get all my
month's work done in two weeks.
So I literally had no work fortwo months, or sorry, for two
weeks out of the month. And so Ithink for me, you got to think
(25:53):
to yourself, they're not payingyou for your blood, sweat and
tears, who cares how many hoursit took you nobody cares? If
you're under a table crying atthree in the morning, nobody
cares. They just want the theyou know, they just want
the result. So how can you makethe most money in the least time
with giving them the most value?
And I think, you know, playingwith that and understanding that
(26:14):
as a creative. It's going tochange over time. And you have
to be flexible with it. But Ithink that's been the biggest
awareness for me of really usingthe calendar and saying, how
many hours are you actuallyworking. And I think it makes
sense to kind of track your timeto really see if you're working
way too many hours, you mightneed to make a change. Like I
said earlier, if you are doingwork that is taking way too
(26:38):
long, you may need to switch toa different type of work that
takes you less time where youcan still make the same money.
And I think that's kind of keyto look at. And measure.
Yeah, I agree. Like timeblocking the calendar is huge.
Like when I when you're notdoing that. I feel like you can
flounder a lot. And a lot ofthings can fall through the
(26:58):
cracks too. You know, you couldhave things that you forget to
do and you know, and then you'retight to a dead deadline. You're
like, oh, no, that never made iton my calendars. It didn't get
done. So yeah, I 100% agree withthat is there you're busy right
you have the five retainers,you're growing this, you know
credible business? Are theirdaily routines that kind of help
(27:21):
with your your business andpersonal success at some people
work out meditate, journal, isthere anything that you kind of
throw in there? Yeah, I work outevery day. That's basically non
negotiable. There was one timewhen I didn't and I realized I
was really because I'd besitting all day and it was like
being too cerebral. And I itwasn't I needed balance. The
other thing that I do isgratitude. Because I think you
(27:46):
know, sometimes when we likewhat is what is the cute, like,
what is the place that youstarted out. So I started for
freedom, it wasn't about themoney. When I started about
freedom, I have two kids, theywere seven and
four when I was seven and threewhen I started. And part of my
goal was like I wanted to beable to be there with them. And
(28:07):
so I think the gratitude and thething about what I'm what I've
been able to provide for them,the lifestyle that I've been
able to create, you know, thebalance, I think, like coming
back to that place of gratitudemakes the hard part's easier, I
think visualization to is reallyimportant. Like, where are you
want your business to be at?
It's like, in the beginning, Iwould even like just go through
(28:27):
like, what do I want my workoutand feel like what do I want?
You know, like and I reallytried to visualize everything's,
you don't even know the how yousee it, you know, like, what do
I want the results being kind oflike the next steps will show up
for you.
And I think I haven't donevisualization as much lately,
because I've been kind of in aplace where I've been feeling
(28:48):
good about things. But when I doget to a point, I really just I
really visualize everything thatI can, because then it starts
bringing me into that as myreality. And then I started kind
of acting as ifso I think I think right, when
you work at home, it's easy toget an A ride and stuff like
that. So I think just for me,the movement, the gratitude, you
(29:09):
know, even just like I don'thave a commute, um, and the
visualization of this is where Iwant to be next month, you know,
even that two weeks, free in themonth, that was something I
started visualizing thebeginning of this year. And then
you know, I got to do it fourtimes, which is amazing. Because
during level of work that Ihave, so volume of work.
(29:36):
Yeah, and speaking ofvisualization, like where, where
do you see your business, butwhat are the goals? And what is
the vision for your business asyou continue? I mean, I keep
raising the monthly income goalthat I have. And it's it's kind
of coming up with ways that Ican do that. I mean, I, I do my
own writing because that's whatI'm selling. I'm selling my
(29:57):
creativity and my intellectualproperty. I didn't want to
In an agency where I have otherpeople doing that, so it's like
I have a finite capacity. And soI think that what I try to do is
I think about, like, what arepackages that people will pay
for, you know, how can I addmore value to something without
necessarily adding a ton morework to myself so that I can,
you know, raise rates, and it'sjust as I go to when I get more
(30:19):
experience and moretestimonials, and you know, more
referrals than I can keep doingthat. And so I think, for
myself, I'm in a good spot. Uh,one thing that I was gonna
mention, if I did real quick,a trap that a lot of
entrepreneurs, including myselffall into is they think they
have to do all the things. Andthey have to follow all the
gurus and all the leaders,right, I had a coach at one
(30:40):
time, that's like, okay, Nicole,you and Facebook group need to
email list, you need a course,you need
lead magnets, you need an emaillist, like, and I'm like my
head, you need to be on all thepodcast. And I was like,
freaking out, I was trying to doall have things. And then I
realized, that's how you keepgetting sucked into new courses.
And I had paid a lot for thisone course. And I was like, I
(31:02):
don't want to be selling in theDMS, what am I doing. And it
really, I came back to a place Ihad to just like sit with it.
And I said, here's the deal. Thegoal, being entrepreneur isn't
easy, and everybody wants to doit. But the way that you become
an entrepreneur is like goinginside yourself and finding your
own path. Nobody can tell youyour path you need, you can find
someone to help you when youknow it, but you need to do it.
(31:23):
So what is true for you, Nicole,and what's true for me is I
didn't want a Facebook group, Ididn't want an email list. I
didn't want courses, I didn'twant lead magnets. I didn't want
to be out there like pitching Ijust wanted to write. And I just
wanted to get like high ticketpremium clients. And when I
honed in on that everything fellinto place. And I knew what I
(31:45):
had to do. And I was able tosustain my business and I
stopped chasing all the shinyobjects.
You know, and I find that thereare people who are in perpetual
coaching mode, I need a coach, Ineed a coach, you need a course,
no, the problem is you need tosit down and like find your own
courseand vision for your business and
then figure out what resourcesyou need when you know you want
(32:07):
to move to that next level. AndI think that is what gave me the
most peace of mind knowing thatit's okay that I don't have a
Facebook group. It's okay that Idon't have an email list. Some
people only want to sell to anemail list. And that's cool.
That's just not me. So I thinkwhen you you really have to
understand your identity as aperson as an entrepreneur and
(32:27):
what feels good for you. Andthat's when you flourish, I
think.
Yeah, 100%, there's so manyoptions out there to grow your
business, which is great,because then you have so many
options to figure out what'sright for you. The problem is,
is when you think you have to doall of them, you know, and I
think most of us have fallen forthat. For sure. I have two more
(32:52):
quick questions. But before I dothat, is there anything else
that you have so much greatknowledge and insight that
you're sharing? Is thereanything else that you wanted to
share? Before we wrap it up? Ithink the one other thing is
here's looking at my notes here.
There was something real quick,something like one second here.
(33:16):
Down here, okay. I just thoughtthat, um, being an entrepreneur
is not for the faint of heart,okay? Like it's not, it's easier
to launch a business because Igot my computer and I'm sitting
at home, right? I don't have Idon't have a brick and mortar
location, I don't haveemployees, I don't need serve
capital to, you know, procure aproduct or make product or any
(33:36):
of that. So it's really easy tostart. So a lot of people are
doing it, but they're not.
They're good at what they do.
But they're not necessarily goodat running a business. And I
think that what people have torealize that there's a lot of
risk, but there's a lot ofreward, right? So you have to be
prepared to fail over and overand not look at as failing, but
just like, Okay, I'm just gonnakeep doing it until I get to the
point. So for me failure wasthat like, ultimate failure was
(33:59):
not an option. I was like, I'mnever gonna have a boss again.
And I think, you know, you haveto be really strong inside
yourself. And this is wherelike, you know, a coach or
masterminds can help. If you'restarting out or to work your
problems as a business owner,you know, to kind of get support
from other people who are doingwhat you're doing. But I would
say yes, there are some bigrisks, but the rewards are huge,
(34:19):
like the financial rewards, andthe money that you can make far
can outweigh what you do in ajob and that can provide
wonderful opportunities for youand for your family. And I would
say it's just when you'rethinking about becoming an
entrepreneur, just remember thatthere's two parts there's the
part of like you're good at whatyou do is you have to be a good
writer, you have to, you know,if that's what you're doing, you
have to be able to deliver whatyou say or to deliver but you
(34:42):
also need to know how to run abusiness and run it like that,
you know? And so there might belike, where are you maybe
lacking I need more training andwriting I need more training and
how to run a business. I thinkthat those are important things
to think about. When you'restarting out, you know and find
find resourcesand help to kind of like, get us
to that next level.
(35:05):
Yeah, for sure. And what I loveabout what you've shared today
is that it can be leveraged foracross industries, like you
don't have to be a copywriter.
You don't have to be a writer toimplement, you know, these kind
of tactics that you've sharedtoday. So I think that that's,
that's awesome, super helpfulfor the audience. Where can
people find you online? They canvisit me at strand writing
(35:25):
services.com.
Awesome. We'll direct peoplethere. And my last question,
this is kind of a fun one thatwe, that we ask is, if you could
only listen to one music artistsfor the rest of your life, who
would it be? And that's, that'stough. I'm gonna go with Guns
(35:47):
and Roses.
That's awesome. I'm from NewJersey. All right, I drive a
couple of muscle cars. So, youknow, that's what we're doing on
the weekends. And that's top ofmy playlist I get there. I got a
lot of favorites with music. Butthat was left kind of the first
one that came to mind. And Ithink it's, I think it's a good
(36:08):
one.
I love it. I don't think thatwe've had the answers. And so
what we do is I've created aplaylist on Spotify, but
entrepreneurial playlist. That'slike, what everybody has said,
over the years, so I'll go theresidence for a share. That's
awesome. Nicole, thank you somuch for taking the time. I've
(36:29):
really enjoyed our conversationtoday. Yeah, no, I love taking
the time to talkentrepreneurship. I could talk
about it all day. Honestly, it'slike, so exciting to me, just as
exciting as the day I started.
And I think that's, you know,that's kind of how you know that
you want to be an entrepreneurbecause it's just, it's like,
always exciting.
(36:50):
Yeah, as always, there's younever know what's gonna happen
next. So, right and that and Ilove that too. I, you know, we
talked about risk, but you haveto kind of be somebody that's
open to changes and stuff justhappening and I love that, like,
been a roller coaster, you know?
Yeah.
You never know what's gonnahappen. Yeah. Thanks again,
(37:10):
Nicole.
Thanks for tuning into the SmallBusiness Big mindset podcast. To
keep the fun going. Check outour Facebook group start and
scale an online business Foreven more free trainings and
resources from fellowentrepreneurs. If you haven't
already, head on over to musclecreative.com and click subscribe
to join our email list forweekly updates. And if you've
enjoyed this podcast episode,check us out on your favorite
(37:31):
podcast platform to follow usand give us a review. As always
be authentic bringing insaneamount of value and keep
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