November 5, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of Small Business Pivots, host Michael D. Morrison talks with Molly Ruland, Founder & CEO of Heartcast Media, a Washington D.C.–based full-service podcast production agency now operating from Costa Rica.
Molly shares how small business owners can start, grow, and monetize a podcast the right way — focusing on SEO (Search Engine Optimization), AEO (Answer Engine Optimization), and genuine relationship-driven content instead of chasing downloads.
💡 You’ll learn:
• How to build a podcast that fills your pipeline and creates real connections
• Why SEO and AEO matter more than virality in 2025 and beyond
• How to use long-tail keywords, show notes, and transcripts to get found
• Outsourcing tips that save time and maximize impact
• Monetization strategies that go beyond ads and downloads
• Creative ways to pitch yourself as a guest (think Loom videos + relationship building)
🌍 Molly’s Story: From Washington D.C. to Costa Rica, she built a global agency helping brands and creators launch powerful podcasts without burnout or vanity metrics.
Molly Ruland: Founder & CEO of Heartcast Media
Website: https://www.heartcastmedia.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heartcastmedia/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeartcastMedia/videos
#SmallBusinessPivots #MichaelDMorrison #BOSS #BusinessOwnershipSimplified #OurBusinessIsHelpingYoursGrow #PodcastGrowth #PodcastSEO #AEOStrategy #HeartcastMedia #MollyRuland #PodcastProduction #PodcastStrategy #PodcastMonetization #PodcastTips #SmallBusinessMarketing #BusinessPodcast #EntrepreneurPodcast #BusinessGrowth #ContentMarketing #DigitalMarketing #RelationshipMarketing #AuthenticContent #SmallBusinessOwner #OklahomaCity #WashingtonDC #CostaRica #Entrepreneurship #BusinessCoaching #OnlineBusinessGrowth #MarketingStrategy #BuildYourEmpire
1. Want more resources to grow your business faster?
https://www.businessownershipsimplified.com/
2. Want to connect with our Host, Founder & CEO on LinkedIn?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeldmorrisonokc/
3. Want professional business coaching with our Host, Founder & CEO?
https://www.michaeldmorrison.com
4. Want to set up a FREE business consultation with our Host, Founder & CEO?
https://www.businessownershipsimplified.com/consultation
FOLLOW US ON:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Host (00:00):
All right.
Welcome to another SmallBusiness Pivots.
Today we have another specialguest from around the world.
And as you know, if you'velistened or watched the podcast,
you know that I feel like thebusiness owner is the only one
that can say their name andtheir business like the business
owner.
So I let you have the stagereal quick to introduce
yourself, where you're coming tous from, and just a little bit
(00:21):
about you.
Guest (00:22):
Right on.
Well, my name is Molly Ruland.
I am the CEO and founder ofHeartcast Media, which is a full
service podcast productionagency.
We focus on podcast production,podcast booking, and podcast
growth.
And we also build websitesbecause uh it's like candy in
the checkout aisle.
You know, no matter how goodyour website is, you're gonna
need a new one before you knowit.
(00:42):
So um I'm based in Costa Rica,but the business is based in
Washington, D.C.
I moved here in the pandemic,uh, converted my very brick and
mortar business into a virtualone, and decided that I would uh
take advantage of uh workingremotely.
And I moved to Costa Rica andI'm still here.
Host (01:01):
So and for those if you're only listening, go watch it on
YouTube so you can see thebeautiful scenery behind her,
and then you'll know why shemoved there.
So we're gonna introduce the uhpodcast real quick and we'll be
right back.
Welcome to Small BusinessPivots, a podcast produced for
small business owners.
I'm your host, MichaelMorrison, founder and CEO of
(01:25):
Boss, where we make businessownership simplified for
success.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as 24 to 48 hours at businessownership simplified.com.
(01:48):
All right, welcome back toSmall Business Pivots.
So, podcast is a big, bigthing.
I know that we have a lot oflisteners.
Some of them have a podcast,some of them started one and
quit, uh, others haven't startedone.
So let's just dive right in.
But first, I know our listenerslike to know just a little bit
of background about the personthey're listening to.
(02:10):
So you got any good stories ofyour upbringing of how you got
to where you are today.
Guest (02:17):
I blame it on the Irish.
Uh, I I grew up in a very Irishhousehold.
I grew up uh listening to, youknow, Irish dancing and playing
Irish uh musical instruments.
I could play the concertina uhas a child.
I danced at the White House forRonald Reagan a few times when
I was a child.
Uh and yeah, grew up in a veryIrish family.
We're all about, you know,bootlegging, bartending,
(02:39):
entertaining, music, dancing,and all that good stuff.
So uh it was kind of in myblood.
So I've owned a multimediacompany for the last 25 years,
uh, and I've always just been aconnector.
So prior to forming HeartcastMedia seven years ago, uh, I was
based in DC and owned a companythat was primarily focused on
building community through art,music, and culture.
(03:00):
Uh so I managed 160 artists, Ibuilt recording studios, podcast
studios, uh, recorded bands,was live streaming everybody in
2016 when nobody was home.
Uh and uh yeah, cut my teeth ona lot of things, but formed
Heartcast Media in 2018, uh,just because I I grew a little
bit and wanted to work withdifferent people and wanted to
(03:21):
take the skills that I learnedfrom doing everything with no
money, no support, uh, andsometimes illegally, uh, you
know, to get the job done andthen moving into the business
world and just recognizing, youknow, you you see these young
kids make masterpieces withiPhones and no money, and then
you go in the business world andyou're like, you paid $15,000
for that video.
(03:41):
It's the worst thing I've everseen.
Like, who did that?
And you're like, Ted from IT.
Like, of course he did.
Why is Ted from IT making yourbrand videos?
You know what I mean?
Like, there's a problem.
And so I came into it like thisidea that you could make
sustainable and good contentthat was attractive and
appealing, but it was alsoeffective, and it doesn't have
to cost a million dollars.
And there's a middle groundthere, which most business
(04:02):
owners fall into where you needgood content, but you're not
spending 10 grand a video.
Host (04:06):
Absolutely.
Well, let's uh get right intopodcasts because it's a hot
topic.
I know there's a lot ofdifferences of opinions.
Is it dead?
Is it still popular?
Why do so many hit it big andnot?
So, where do you think kind ofthe the basics of starting with
a podcast for our listeners?
Where do you think we couldstart with?
Guest (04:28):
I mean, to me, everything is about relationships and like
having a podcast will reallyenrich your life.
And I know you can relate tothat.
Like, I'm sure you've done someinterviews where you're like,
that was awesome.
Like, I really like that guy orthat lady, or you've done
business with them, or you justfelt heard or seen or validated.
And I think that the worldneeds a lot more of that
relationship building right now,um, and longer form
(04:50):
conversations, I think is reallyimperative for like our society
as a whole, to be honest.
Um, and I just think thatthere's something really amazing
about the democratization ofinformation.
Like, I've always been kind ofobsessed with pirate radio and
those things.
And the fact that like you canjust plug in the microphone and
say what you want to say andpublish it on Substack and get
(05:10):
in front of thousands of peoplefor free is really fascinating,
right?
And especially at a time whenfree speech uh ain't so free no
more.
You know what I mean?
Uh, you know, it it mattersmore than ever to have this
medium where we can likeactually share thoughts and
feelings and everything else.
From a business perspective, Ithink it's an excellent way to
(05:32):
fill your pipeline, but you haveto be really intentional and
strategic about who you'reinterviewing and why.
And I think a lot of peoplehave it wrong where it's all
about the audience and you know,go on other people's podcasts
and tap into their audience.
It's like, no, man, I'm goingon your podcast.
I'm not, I hope your audiencelikes what I have to say and I
provide value, right?
But I'm here for you.
I'm here to hang out with youtoday and to have a conversation
(05:53):
with you.
And I'm sure that I will seeyou again.
Maybe I'll see you at aconvention, maybe I'll invite
you to, you know what I mean?
Like it's the beginning of arelationship.
And then if your audience feelsthat, then they're gonna enjoy
our conversation more.
But to me, it's about you, it'snot about tapping into your
audience.
That feels gross, to be honest.
You know what I mean?
Host (06:13):
Like that's not it.
I I love what you just saidbecause no one else has ever
said that.
And when I'm asked what's myfavorite part about the podcast,
is I get to meet people that Iwould have never met if I had
just sent a cold email, made acold call.
They say yes almost every timeto be on the podcast and have a
(06:34):
conversation.
And I do continue therelationship FYI with those that
I have on the podcast, sothat's uh very powerful, as well
as I feel like I'm getting kindof a mastermind.
So, like we have mastermindgroups, you know.
I'm like, I'm learning frompeople all around the world that
are 10x more than me, more thanI might ever be getting
insights, and so I just thinkthat's super cool.
(06:56):
So, where would you like tostart with the podcast?
Because your company does a lotof things.
So, do you want to kind offocus on your company and how it
helps people, or do you justwant to talk podcast in general?
Guest (07:07):
Well, I mean you know, I would always love for people to
hire me, but I think thisinformation could be valuable
for everybody.
But I I think it starts withstrategy with your why, right?
And I I'm not a big fan ofSimon Sinek or whatever his name
is, but you got to start withyour why.
Why do you want to have apodcast?
What where is the goalpost?
Because you can't kick the balldown the field if you don't
even know where the goalpost is.
So let's start there, right?
(07:28):
So is it to get brandvisibility?
Well, you got to put some moneybehind those episodes because
as you know, you could put yourheart and soul into something
and get seven downloads on it ifyou're lucky, right?
So, like it's not justautomatic visibility, you get
more visibility doing a TikTok.
So that's not the right answer,right?
Or the whole answer.
Um, if you're doing it for yourbusiness, that's one thing.
(07:50):
If you're doing it forpersonal, that's another, right?
So I think it's like startingwith that, and then who's gonna
do the podcast and what doessuccess look like?
And then who are youinterviewing?
Well, there's you know, somepeople on LinkedIn with lots of
followers.
Well, what does that have to dowith your business, right?
Or I want to do a podcast aboutresilience.
Okay, what does that have to dowith plumbing?
You know what I mean?
What how does that relate,right?
Like, uh, you know, let'sreally get into are you trying
(08:13):
to please an audience thatdoesn't exist that might never
hire you?
Are you trying to create apodcast that is what people want
in a podcast, or are you gonnacreate a podcast that you can be
passionate about?
And I think the answer shouldalways be passionate about it.
And it could be in a very likevanilla way.
So, for example, I have apodcast, camp content.
I turn people into campcounselors and cartoons, and we
(08:33):
talk about content marketing.
I only interview CMOs andfractional CMOs.
Why?
Because they understandmarketing, we're gonna have a
good conversation, they tend tohave a better sense of humor,
and they have clients.
And fractional CMOs usuallyhave multiple clients.
And the best way to show peoplehow you work is to show them
how you work.
So they get invited on mypodcast.
It's you know, a funnyone-liner, cold email.
(08:54):
They're like, Okay, I see whatyou're doing here, but I'm in.
They they go through theprocess, it's really simple.
They come on the show, I dothis great introduction, right?
By the end, they're like, bythe way, I checked out your
raids and services.
I think I have two clients foryou every single time, right?
But part of the reason isbecause we spend 20 minutes
talking about content marketing,which I know it very well.
I've been doing it for 25years.
(09:16):
I'm not faking the funk talkingabout resilience because I
don't really care aboutresilience.
Okay, it's resilient to get outof bed every day at this point.
You know what I mean?
We're all there, right?
Like I need, I you know what Imean, and that's not gonna move
the needle because I don't own abusiness that does anything
about resilience.
I own a business that producescontent.
So I want to talk aboutcontent, you know?
And so I think it's like, youknow, finding like something you
(09:40):
can get into, but also makingsure that it can fill your
pipeline or that you're talkingto people that are aggregators.
So, like um, if you do, ifyou're, you know, sell
insurance, then talk to somebodywho has a newsletter, a
substack about insurance.
Talk to people that can get youone to many kind of thing.
And then sometimes, yeah, youinterview your buddy, or
(10:00):
sometimes you interview somebodywith a big following on
LinkedIn.
But at the end of the day, Ifeel like episodes should be
considered warm leads, but notin like a douchey way where I'm
gonna hit you with a salesproposal afterwards.
No, I just want to talk topeople in my industry that
relate to me, that have a senseof humor and potentially have
clients that they might refer tome one day, right?
I get content out of it, Ibuild new relationships, and I'm
(10:23):
having a good time because CMOsare typically sarcastic and
jaded.
Host (10:30):
Well, having a good time is important because it can be
daunting and uh with all theediting and scheduling and all
that cool stuff.
So it's like that's the I havenot got burnt out yet.
For those that are listening,we're at about I think this is
about a hundred hundred andtwenty-fifth episode, uh
recording-wise, and and I'mstill having fun, which is which
(10:52):
is awesome.
Yeah, I know people thatstarted and did three and
they're done.
They're like, that was too muchwork.
It was I'm like, well, then youwere probably doing it for the
wrong reason.
Guest (11:02):
Well, you're doing it for the wrong reason, and then the
second thing I always say isoutsource, you know what I mean?
Because like, don't be so hardon yourself.
Like, you can't, you know,people go to school to be an
audio engineer.
Like, I know in this world ofAI, they're like, put it in
there and AI will editeverything.
All right, okay, but it's notgonna be good.
There's a reason why MPR spends$60,000 an episode, that's why
(11:24):
they win all the awards, right?
There's a middle ground there,and so to expect yourself to be
good at audio engineering, videoediting, copywriting, you know
what I mean?
Like it's it's a lot.
And so I always say, outsourceit and do all that, give the
busy work to somebody else sothat you can focus on who you're
interviewing and then thefollow-up.
Because too many people arelike, okay, next episode, next
(11:45):
episode, and then they don'teven email and say, Tom, thanks
for coming on the show lastweek.
I really enjoyed my time.
By the way, would you mindmaking that introduction?
Can I get 20 minutes for ameeting?
Would you join my board ofdirectors?
Would you make a donation?
Whatever it is that you'redoing, but nobody ever does
that.
No one ever does that.
And they're just like on to thenext, right?
Which is a societal issue thatwe're having.
(12:06):
More, more, more volume, goviral.
Listen, you don't want to goviral, man.
It sucks.
Going viral is the worst thingthat could happen to you, right?
It's not what people think itis.
So it's like focus on therelationship.
And what I see is peoplegetting really bogged down and
the admin of it, the show notes,you know, especially in
internally in companies, becauseit's like those are different
(12:28):
departments.
So now this project has to goover here, and then now it's got
to go to this other department,and now it's got to go to
another department.
And the episode is four and ahalf weeks old, and now your
marketing team that you'repaying 100K a year, just spent
doing something that you couldhave paid somebody a few bucks
to do, and you've missed, youknow what I mean?
And now you're not hit, youknow what I mean?
(12:49):
You you're you're jumping theshark, you're missing the point.
Outsource, have that donereally well, and then focus on
nurturing that relationship,following up with them.
You know what I mean?
Focus on the content, askinggood questions, focus on the
things that matter and not onthe minutiae of it, right?
Like you do you do your own oilchanges, you're gonna file your
taxes this year, you're gonnaplay the violin at the company
(13:10):
reception later.
Like, you know, take it easy,killer.
Like, leave something for therest of us and focus on what
you're good at, especially in acompany.
You know, don't saddle yourmarketing team to do stuff that
they don't do.
That's not fair, you know?
Host (13:24):
Yeah.
What does your what does yourcompany do?
So I see you do a lot ofthings, but how can you help
those businesses?
Guest (13:32):
Well, we do everything, we do all that stuff for you.
We create it, we create acustom trello board, we design
your logo, we create the wholeproject, we design all your
assets, all your templates, wedo outreach for you, we'll line
up the guests for you onLinkedIn, we'll grow your
LinkedIn profile, we'll do theguest prep, we'll edit
everything, we'll engineer,we'll be there on the recording,
and then we'll clean everythingup and take out care of
(13:52):
everything, show notes, YouTube.
I mean, literally everythingyou could think of.
You know, in a guest graphic,episode graphic, quote graphic,
YouTube graphic, blog posts onyour website.
Everything is done for you, andit's done in five business
days.
So that way you can just focuson who you're interviewing and
then how to really show up thereand get it done.
And it's not that expensive.
We charge $650 an episode to doall that.
(14:15):
Eight people are working onyour episodes, right?
But now you've got fivedifferent graphics you can
share.
You've got a blog post, you'vegot metadata you could turn into
a newsletter on LinkedIn,you've got opportunities to tag
that guest on LinkedIn inmultiple locations.
You have an opportunity toemail that guest and say, thanks
for coming on the show.
Here's a folder full of assets.
Thanks for coming on the show.
(14:35):
I'm gonna tag you on LinkedIn,right?
It gives you it fills yourcontent calendar, it should fill
your pipeline, it should do allof those things, right?
And then you can focus on whatis the best way to use these
graphics instead of focusing onwho's gonna make the graphics,
right?
Yeah, and so it's kind of ashift, but that only works if
you're going into it like who amI interviewing?
(14:56):
Because if you're justinterviewing popular people on
LinkedIn, you're not gonna getany ROI out of that.
But if you're interviewingpeople that are adjacent to your
business, then they're going toinstinctively want to help you
when the thing is over, right?
Like they're gonna say, Man,this is so much fun.
I really enjoyed hanging outwith you, Michael.
You thank you so much for allthe love you gave hardcast
media.
How can I help you?
What kind of clients are youlooking to coach?
(15:17):
I'm instinctively wanting to dothat because you have a warm
personality, you're showing somuch love to my business.
Of course I'm gonna want tohelp you out, right?
You know, so I think peopleneed to be way more intentional
about that.
And like, don't worry aboutdownloads, don't worry about the
algorithm, don't worry aboutany of that.
The only person that matters isthe person across from the
table.
Period.
And when that person matters,then the content is good.
Host (15:39):
Speaking of content, what makes a good podcast?
Like, I because we do have alot of listeners that's never
done a podcast, and they'relike, I can never get in front
of a video, I don't know whatquestions to ask.
And of course, there's allkinds of courses, there's all
kinds of YouTube's, and they allsay something differently.
So, in your opinion, what whatmakes a good podcast?
Do they have to pre-write thequestions, share that with the
(16:00):
other guest?
I mean, what's what what makesit good?
Guest (16:04):
Yes and no.
I think being prepared is isimportant, but when you prepare
too many questions, you getpigeonholed in that, and then
you're so focused on when theperson's gonna stop talking so
you can ask the question and youforget to listen and then just
roll with it.
So I would say the mostimportant thing is a good
introduction or like makingpeople feel welcome, right?
That is like starting off goodhelps, right?
(16:26):
Like bringing people's barrierdown helps, and then just be
yourself, be 100 your percentyourself unapologetically all
the time.
I'm a ridiculous person, right?
My backup plan is stand-upcomedy.
I know that I'm not foreverybody, and I'm totally cool
with that.
Took a long time to bake thiscake, and I'm not gonna pretend
I'm somebody else when I'm on anepisode.
You know what I mean?
And I think people find thatendearing and they appreciate
(16:50):
it.
And sometimes I say the thingsthat people wish they could say,
but they work for corporateAmerica, so they just enjoy
being around it and not gettinginto trouble for it, right?
So just be authentic, but talkabout something you actually
care about because that's gonnashine through when you when you
know, we've all listened topodcast episodes, and you're
like, oh god, this is painful.
That guy just paid to be on theshow or something because the
(17:12):
host isn't into it, he's goingthrough the motions, he's
clearly not prepared, right?
You can feel all those things,but like somebody listening to
this episode is gonna be like,Man, she's a firecracker.
This is a great likeconversation is going, we're
bopping back and forth, there'sno lull here.
Like, we're clearly interestedin our topic.
I think that's good content,right?
Host (17:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you promised you wouldkeep this PG, I think.
So now I didn't know what thatmeant up front, but now I do.
Guest (17:43):
Yeah, just less cursing.
That's all.
I was gonna come from a longline of sailors and bartenders
and bootleggers.
It's in my DNA to curse.
So uh, but I I I reel it in onother people's podcasts.
Host (17:54):
Well, so I kind of look at podcasting when I know when I
first started, which was I'mstill pretty young at this three
years ago, maybe.
I think we started three and ahalf years, maybe.
But I know I was like, howmany, how many should I do?
How often?
I mean, what are some tips likethat that can really help
somebody?
Because I'm a big believer in,like you said, have a reason why
(18:14):
you're doing it, know yourpurpose, know your why, have all
that figured out.
So, what are some good tips forsomebody to be thinking about
up front?
Guest (18:23):
Well, I think that you should only do something when
you have something of value toadd, right?
Like I have a LinkedInnewsletter, I only write in it
when I actually have somethingto say.
And if I don't, then I'm notputting something out for the
sake of putting it out becausesome to person told me I have to
do it every two weeks.
Nobody wants to read somethingthat doesn't have any heart in
it.
So maybe it'll be two monthsbefore my next one.
(18:44):
Maybe it'll be next Tuesday.
No one knows, and that's whatit is, right?
And I think that my newslettersubscribers appreciate that
about me because they don't justthey're I'm not training them
to delete my content everyTuesday morning at 11 or
whatever, right?
Yeah.
Um, with podcasts, if you'redoing it for your business, look
at it as warm leads and crankthrough those.
(19:04):
Do 12 episodes in two months,so then release them however you
want.
But like, you don't want onewarm lead a month, do you?
I want six this month and sixnext month, and I want to
nurture the hell out of thoseand fill my pipeline and go on
hey, this was my podcast andnurture those leads and get them
in my funnel somehow, right?
And then when things slow downagain, do another season.
(19:26):
That's how I look at having apodcast to fill your pipeline.
If you want to be a podcaster,that is totally different.
That means you got to be doingweekly episodes at a certain
time, you need to be paying formarketing, you need to be
putting money behind it.
Like none of that is organic.
So you have to decide if youwant to be a podcaster or if
you're trying to fill yourpipeline because they're two
(19:48):
different things.
Host (19:49):
Yeah.
Well, that brings up the nextquestion.
On the most of the forums orthe groups on Facebook that have
anything to do with podcasting,I would say most of the
questions asked are how do Igrow my podcast?
In other words, I'm onlygetting you know 20 downloads
(20:10):
for every episode, and somebodywill always chime, well, I just
got 20,000 on mine.
And what how does what's thedifference between all these
downloads and why does itmatter?
You're well, honesty, let'sstart there.
Guest (20:21):
That dude was lying, okay, because ain't nobody ain't
nobody getting 20k downloads onan episode and hanging out in
Facebook groups for podcasting.
Period.
Period.
Because the seventh circle ofhell is Facebook groups about
podcasting.
Okay, it's like literally theworst place.
It's a lot of really nicepeople and a lot of really angry
men who are wildly wrong aboutthings and jerks about it.
(20:42):
I'm like, listen, you caneither be wrong or a jerk, but
you don't get to be both, okay?
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Like these guys, and you'relike, dude, things have changed
in the last 40 years, like angrysound man, like reel it in a
little bit, you know what Imean?
Um, and so I would say, like,don't compare yourself to other
people is the number one thing,right?
Also, like understanding likethe depth, right?
(21:04):
Like, you're like, oh, I onlyhave 50 downloads.
If you had 50 people waiting tohear you speak in a room, you'd
be nervous as hell, okay?
Like, don't underestimate.
Like, we live in this societywhere if it's not like super big
numbers and a million that youyou don't want that.
That's not realistic.
And if you get what I thinkit's like if you get 100
downloads in your podcast in thefirst seven days, you're in the
top like 20% of podcasts.
(21:25):
So like you have to understandthe metrics, okay?
So a lot of those people arelying, and then the other thing
is like it either takes a reallylong time, right?
Because I and I'm sure you canattest to that.
I'm sure you have crickets onsome of your episodes, but then
sometimes as you grow, peopleare listening to old episodes
too, right?
So it just takes some time, butif you really want to grow your
(21:48):
numbers, it honestly takes painadvertising.
Like, none of these people withbig downloads are doing that
organically.
Like, don't be fooled by that.
Like, there's a lot of moneygoing into those campaigns,
those billboards for podcastscost money, right?
Like, none of those people aregetting organic downloads,
except for Joe Rogan, becausehe's been doing it forever,
right?
He, but that's not that's heyou just take him out of the
(22:09):
experiment.
That is not normal, okay?
Everybody else is paying, it'sall pay to play.
And so, like, if you're gettingany traction at all, then
you're doing really well, right?
But you have to consider likewhat is well, you know, a
hundred downloads on an episodein the first seven days is
solid.
It, I mean, it doesn't seemlike it, but it is solid.
(22:30):
That is way different thanboosted up vanity metrics with
impressions and this on social.
But what does it really mean?
And then the other question Iwould ask is why do you want
more downloads?
What does that more downloadsrepresent to you?
Is it because you want peopleto sign up for your funnel to go
into coaching more?
Is it because you want more,like, why do you want more
downloads, right?
To me, with camp content, Inever even checked the
(22:54):
downloads.
I didn't care because I wasn'tgetting business from the
downloads.
I was getting business from thepeople I was interviewing, so I
never even bothered to look atthe downloads because that
wasn't the metric.
The metric was where they'recalling me and setting up
discovery calls and referring meto their clients.
That had nothing to do with mydownloads, right?
It's like they it's like afitness coach will tell you
don't get on the scale everyday.
(23:14):
It's kind of the same, it'syour phone ringing, you know
what I mean?
Host (23:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Would you say that when peopleare so we'll say all that stuff
is bunk, but to groworganically, would you say it
might be equal or it might beone or more or the other, but
would you say optimization ofall the description, all that is
as important as the promotion,vice versa, which is kind of how
(23:40):
can you organically growquicker?
Guest (23:43):
I I would say it's more important, and I'm so glad you
asked me that question because Ithink SEO is one thing that's
not talked about enough inpodcasting, and like everything
in life is SEO.
If you really want to improveyour business, it's SEO.
Host (23:55):
Marketing is You're listening to Small Business
Pivots.
This podcast is produced by mycompany, Boss.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as twenty four to forty-eighthours at business ownership
(24:16):
simplified.com.
If you're enjoying thispodcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share itas well.
Now let's get back to ourspecial guest.
How can you organically growquicker?
Guest (24:29):
I I would say it's more important, and I'm so glad you
asked me that question because Ithink SEO is one thing that's
not talked about enough inpodcasting, and like everything
in life is SEO.
If you really want to improveyour business, it's SEO.
Marketing is like pissing intothe wind, honestly, in a lot of
cases, right?
So I think SEO is where it'sat.
So SEO optimizing your shownotes, your key takeaways, your
(24:53):
timestamps, using long tailkeywords.
You know, like when we use ourAI, I'm like, no, do not use a
single adjective.
I only want long tail keywords.
So don't say we're gonna have awe're gonna deep dive and delve
into this fabulous conversationwith this magnificent person.
No, we're talking about digitaltransformation in the age of AI
with this financial expert.
Like, I don't don't give me anyfluff.
Everything should be SEOkeyword optimized, right?
(25:14):
And with AI, you can do that.
You can say, hey, um, you canask them a series of questions
before they come on yourpodcast.
What's your greatest personalachievement?
Your bio, what's your greatestprofessional achievement?
Um, what are you the most proudof?
You know, whatever.
You can ask them a bunch ofquestions, right?
And then you can throw thatinto AI and you can say, now
optimize this, or you can takethe transcription and you can
say optimize this for these fivekeywords and write the
(25:36):
description that way.
And then you can take that andput that as a blog post on your
website.
And so now when people aresearching digital transformation
and fintech, you know, yours isgonna come up, which is gonna
be way more valuable than youposting on social media, to be
honest, right?
I got 60,000 followers on mycombined social media accounts.
They are 100% limiting women'svoices on LinkedIn.
(25:59):
I have 6,000 followers onthere.
I'll post something, I'll get12 impressions.
Comment on a man's post, I getthousands, right?
The whole system is riggedagainst us.
So I think social media is kindof a waste of time, to be
honest, which is crazy as amarketing person, you know, to
say that.
But in the last year, I'vereally just figured out that
like SEO, AEO, and GEO.
(26:22):
Search engine optimization,answer engine optimization, and
I can't remember what the G is.
I just learned it like 10minutes ago in a company
meeting.
So I'll get back to you know,but like the world is changing.
Like, you know how when youGoogle something and it gives
you the AI answer.
Well, now we gotta we gottaoptimize things for answer
engines.
So that's that's what youshould be telling your GPT hey,
(26:43):
take this transcription andoptimize it for AEO.
Now take this transcription andoptimize it for this.
But yes, 100%.
Because when people areGoogling those words, you want
to come up.
That's how people really findyou.
All my business is inbound.
I get two, three discoverycalls a week for podcast booking
because people Google podcastbooking and we come up and they
(27:04):
come to our website and theylike what they see and they book
a meeting.
I put out stuff to 16,000people about podcast booking, I
get nothing.
I get absolutely nothingbecause seven people saw it.
Host (27:13):
Yeah.
People talk a lot aboutmonetizing their podcast.
What does that really mean inthe podcast world?
Because I think most people arejust thinking like Joe Rogan
makes a comfortable living doinghis podcast.
I don't know if that's whatpeople are thinking about or if
they're thinking about ads.
I think about it as generatingleads, but what is your opinion
(27:35):
on that?
Guest (27:36):
Well, it's all about like collateral benefits, right?
Like, which is really a bankingterm, but I think it relates.
Monetization comes in manyforms.
And maybe it means you wereasked to speak on a panel
because somebody heard you on apodcast.
Maybe it means um your phone isringing.
Maybe it means, like, forexample, I did an interview with
a guy on my podcast and he hitme up and he's doing a podcast
(27:58):
for Accenture about automationand designing um whatever, huge
uh engines to build stuff, youknow, uh workflows.
And and he wants me to be thehost, right?
Which is hilarious because Iwas so irreverent on my podcast.
I'm like, you guys want me tobe an engineering podcast host?
I'm like, you know what you'regetting into, but I'm strangely
very interested in engineeringand manufacturing and those
(28:20):
things too.
So I'm like kind of into it,right?
Because they build like supplychains.
So I'm like, I would totally dothat.
But that's an opportunity thatcame to me, and that's
Accenture.
That's a nice little gig.
That's a few bucks in my pocketnext year to do something I
really enjoy doing, and thatcame from that podcast.
So when you're looking atmonetization, you have to look
at it from a lot of differentangles.
And I think people think,download one dollar down, you
(28:43):
know, like it's not that linear,man.
It it's gonna come in all kindsof other ways, you know.
And sometimes you do get lucky.
Like I was on the sales gravypodcast and it went live last
week, and I've gotten like threeor four calls from that, which
is like that never happens,right?
But like that's super cool.
That's a win, right?
That's that's totally a win,you know, as far as I'm gonna
(29:05):
that's monetization right there.
And maybe it's not direct, butlike one day that I'll get a
referral from that, or maybeit'll happen right away.
But I think it's not so causeand effect.
I think it's like you have toreally step back and go, well,
wait, why was I asked to be onthat panel?
Why was I approached to do thatkeynote thing?
Why was I asked to be on theboard of directors?
Well, maybe because they heardyou talking somewhere.
Host (29:28):
Yeah.
I know that it's easier towell, let me back up.
I know that more people reachout to us to be on our show, and
it's harder to get on otherpeople's shows because they're
getting inundated with so manyrequests as well.
How can one break through thatice?
Have you got any tips there?
Guest (29:48):
Well, 100% relationships, but I'm a I'm a big fan of the
Loom.
Are you familiar with Loomvideos?
Oh, yes.
Okay, so it's a littlepsychological hack.
If you open up somebody Else'swebsite and you record a loom
with their website as thescreenshot, they're gonna hit
play.
So if you really wanna like cutthrough the noise, make a
(30:12):
30-second pitch for everypodcast you're going on.
Hey Tom, don't delete this.
I'm a real person didn't makethis with AI.
I'm putting my hat in a ring.
I know you're inundated withthese all day, but I promise I
won't suck.
And here's three reasons whyI'd be a great guest.
Listen, that's a little effortin that, but I guarantee you
they're gonna watch it andyou're gonna be notified if
they've watched it and they'regonna go, oh my god, I get so
many crappy pitches all day.
Thank you so much.
(30:32):
This actually made me laugh,and you're gonna stand out from
the noise.
That's a great way to like doit yourself for very for zero
dollars.
The other thing I would say ishire somebody.
You know, like there's a reasonwhy artists have booking
agents.
We get you more, we get you onbetter stuff, you know what I
mean?
We get you paid, you know, likewe we have more relationships,
right?
Because I can call and say,hey, Tom, I got another one for
(30:56):
you, versus your pitch is gonnago into the pile with the other
99 they got that day, you know,for the thing.
So if you can't afford to hiresomebody, the loom is a great
one.
Host (31:09):
That's awesome.
Guest (31:09):
And then like I said, you put their website on it because
aren't wouldn't you?
If you like saw a loom videoand it was your website, of
course you're gonna hit play,right?
And then you could be like,aha, I got you.
And then they'll be like, okay,that was act, that was actually
clever.
Now you stand out, you've builta relationship, you might get
through.
They might delete it too, butlike that's a really low-cost
way to like stand out from themadness.
Host (31:32):
And so, what does it look like?
You said it was about 650 anepisode at this time.
Right now we're at Q3 2025.
So, what does it look like tohire someone to get you on
shows?
What is that process?
Guest (31:46):
So it's kind of similar.
We do an onboarding thing.
I ask you a ton of questions.
I build a very beautiful mediakit for you with like 10 topics
you're ready to cover, 10questions you're ready to
answer, potential episodetopics, keywords, bio, and high
quality pictures.
And then we build a custompitch and we build a custom list
for you.
So we take all these datapoints and we go and we say, All
(32:07):
right, here's the first 40podcasts we're gonna pitch you
on, and here's our pitch.
And then they say, Okay, and wejust hit the ground running.
So we have we have the bigdatabase that everybody else
has.
Nobody's unique in that we allhave the same information,
right?
They'll tell you they havewhatever, but it's a lie.
So everybody can access that.
Then we have our always a list,a yes list, and that's people
(32:28):
we've already booked onpodcasts, right?
I suspect if I hit you up,Michael, and I was like, dude, I
got the perfect guy for you,you're gonna be open for it
because I know you now and Iknow who you want to talk to,
and of course you're gonnalisten to that more than
somebody else, right?
So that's our always a yeslist.
And then we've got ourready-to-be pitched because I do
things a little differently.
I reach out to people and Isay, Are you open to pitches?
I'm a podcast productioncompany.
(32:48):
I got a few in the top 10.
It's not my main jam, but I gotsome solid people.
Are you interested?
And I get people and they say,Oh my god, thank you so much for
asking, instead of just sendingme slop.
And like, this is actually theexact person we're looking for.
And I go, fantastic.
Don't have them right now, butwhen I do, I'll send them to you
because I'm not gonna send yousomebody.
And they go, Thank you so much.
(33:09):
You're awesome.
Have a great day, right?
Change the whole relationshipright there.
Now they're ready, they'relooking out for my pitches,
right?
So every day, every week, we'rejust growing our always a yes
and our ready-to-go list atevery possible moment, and then
just building our relationships,you know, with people.
Because once you're in, you'rein.
So I spent 20 years puttingpeople on stages.
(33:29):
I booked people fromWashington, D.C.
on stages at South bySouthwest, right?
And it's what I did for a very,very long time.
And so it was about two yearsago that I was like, why am I
not doing this in the podcastspace?
Because nobody's getting itwrong with these VAs and these
AI pitches and pitching fintechpeople on life coach podcasts.
And I'm like, what is you know,this is a mess, right?
And I know you get a lot ofthose.
(33:50):
You're like, why do you evenwant to do that every hour?
It doesn't make any sense.
Yeah.
And so I was like, I'm gonnathrow my hat in the ring and do
this a little different.
And you know, selfishly, I wantto be like the go in five
years.
I want to be like, Oh, youbetter, if you want to get
somebody on insert name, yougotta call Molly.
I want to be like, you know, Ido, and I'm gonna get there
because it's all aboutrelationships.
(34:11):
But I'm also really invested.
I go to podcast conventions, Ispeak at podcast conventions, I
have podcasts, I have a podcastcompany, right?
So if you're gonna hiresomebody, I would start with
somebody that's knowledgeablebecause PR companies are trying
to get their nope.
And I keep telling them, youstay out of PR, stay out of
podcasting, and I'll stay out ofPR, right?
You stay on your side of thefence, I'll stay on mine.
They're very, they're verysimilar, but totally different
(34:33):
beasts.
So, like, let's just worktogether instead of against each
other.
And then you got a bunch oftech bros who are building all
these AI databases to get in,but that doesn't mean your pitch
is gonna get through.
It doesn't mean you have theright email.
It doesn't, you know what Imean?
These guys are just trying tomake a quick book, the companies
are gonna go under in twoyears, you know what I mean?
That that's not it.
Then you've got communities youcan join, like pod matching
(34:53):
stuff.
And I love Alex San Filippo,he's like one of my favorite
humans on the planet.
And if you're brand new, it's agreat place to start, but the
it's not gonna have likethousands of listeners on those
that you know, it's a good placeto cut your teeth and kind of
figure it out, but it's notthose, those aren't gonna move
the needle most of the time.
You get a lot of no-shows, youget a lot of new podcasters on
(35:13):
that.
You know what I mean?
So I would recommend hiring anagency.
There, it runs the gamut.
I had a meeting with somebodyand he was like, people are
telling me 10 grand a month.
I'm like, I'm 1200 a month or1900 a month, depending on how
many podcasts you want to getbooked on.
I to I told I told the guy tome, podcast booking is the
gateway drug to podcastproduction.
If I can get you into mycompany and you realize what a
(35:36):
great job we do on booking, thenthen you're gonna say, Well,
what else can you do?
Oh, you also do production.
Oh, you also build websites,oh, you can also edit my
webinars or my, you know what Imean?
Like, oh, you can dotestimonial videos for the
company.
Yep.
And so that's how we just sortof bring people into the folds,
right?
So to me, I don't need tocharge a lot of money.
And we also base our serviceson the approvals and not on
(35:57):
pitches, where other companieswill say we'll send out a
thousand pitches a month, butthere's no guarantees, which is
like I wish I if I could getpaid on my efforts, I'd be a
good billionaire, technicallyspeaking.
Host (36:10):
You know, I hadn't heard of that one.
I don't get paid that way.
Guest (36:13):
I know.
I was like, what Kool-Aid doesit now.
Uh my clients want results.
I don't know what clientsthey're talking to, but my
clients want actual results ifthey're paying that much money
to be on something, you know?
So um it's less than producingyour own episode, but then we
also will make 10 vertical clipsof your appearance once the
episode goes live that you canuse on your own social and
(36:35):
you're not waiting for the hostto send you those things.
So there's built-in um contentcreation there.
And then the last thing we dois we will run ads.
So, like let's say you go on apodcast and you're really jazzed
about it, and it was a greatconversation.
Well, we can run LinkedIn adsor Google ads, display ads on
that episode and all the placeswhere your potential um clients
are hanging out, and we canboost the downloads for the host
(36:58):
and boost visibility and giveyou all the analytic information
and demographic information onwho listened to your episode,
and that can help you retargetyour ads.
So we're going at it like very,very strategically to make sure
we don't waste anybody's time.
Host (37:14):
Is it better to I know you kind of touched on this
earlier, like if you have apodcast, know your audience
instead of just being oneveryone else's.
But I've noticed a trend, itseems like in the last six
months to a year, where peoplethat had podcasts are kind of
shelving their pausing theirpodcast and to go be a guest on
(37:35):
everybody else's.
In other words, they're notsharing your podcast, they're
just trying to be on so manypodcasts, and then after the
podcast is uploaded, they don'thelp you share it, all that good
stuff.
Are you kind of seeing thattrend?
And how can one overcome thoseobstacles?
Because it is a lot of timewhen someone says, Oh, and we've
got this big audience, we'llhelp you grow your show, and and
(37:55):
then crickets.
Guest (37:57):
Well, and I think that's the thing, it's like this dog
and pony show, right?
It's like bait and switch.
It's like you tap into otherpeople's audiences, and it's
it's just a it's a misnomer, youknow what I mean?
It's a misnomer.
It's like, and and a lot ofthose people, they're probably
not getting downloads on theirshow, so they're going on other
people's show to like ramp upthose downloads.
Host (38:17):
I love how you just cut to the chase.
Because so many of us, we seeall those 10x promises, and I
got 30,000 downloads, and andyou're just calling BS on all of
it.
So I I love that because itassures people like, don't
listen to the noise.
Find your why.
Guest (38:36):
Because like at the end of the day, right?
Like, if you own a brick andmortar like ice cream shop, you
need a lot of bodies comingthrough.
But the vast majority of us, ifwe got one new client a month,
it would impact your bottom linesignificantly, right?
Yeah, so this idea that yougotta reach a million people is
(38:56):
flawed.
No, you do not.
If if if you had a millionlisteners on this podcast and
and 50 people wanted to hire metomorrow, it would be a problem.
I could not handle that.
I am not what that I don't wantthat, okay?
You know, I don't.
I that would overwhelm my team.
I wouldn't be able to good do agood job for anybody.
(39:17):
Like that would put us at waycapacity.
Like this, you don't want whatyou think you want.
You know, if I walk away fromthis conversation today and I
gave some people some goodinformation, right?
Which I feel like we areproviding value for your
listeners, and me and you arefriendly, that's a win for me.
That's a that's a win, youknow, because you never know
where we might connect again, orI might send you somebody for
(39:41):
coaching, or you might send me,you know, you just never know.
And so I think it's like focuson small, focus on the
relationship, and then don'thave these big pie in the sky
ideas about going viral andreaching lots of people.
Like that's most of us would bevery stressed out if that
happened.
Host (40:00):
Yeah, well, and for those that have gone viral that I do
know that comes with problems,depositions, lawsuits, everybody
wants a piece of your fame.
So uh I know we're almost outof time, and I know you know a
lot more than what you've justshared in the 30, 40 minutes
we've been together.
So, how can someone follow you,engage with you, learn more,
(40:23):
get with your company?
Guest (40:25):
Uh well, go to the website, it's
heartcastmedia.com.
And if you go to forward slashfriends, because we're all
friends now, you can see mymeeting links and anything else
you might need to know, mysocial media, all that kind of
stuff.
Um, I love talking aboutpodcasting and I love strategy.
So if anybody wants to call meup and just like pick my brain
(40:46):
for a few minutes about somestuff, I'm happy to do that.
I'm not really if you want tostart a hobby podcast about
cats, like I'm probably not theright person for that because
I'm all about businessdevelopment, filling your
pipeline, strategy, intention.
If that's where you're leaning,I'm always happy to talk to
people and give them some ideas.
Um, sometimes, you know, one ofmy favorite quotes is you can't
(41:06):
read the label from inside thejar.
And sometimes you just needsomebody else to help you
shuffle your ideas.
And a lot of people are like, Iwant to do a podcast, but I
just it's just not clicking.
And a lot of times after a callwith me, it clicks, and then
they're ready to like make thatnext step because they're like
just it's like okay, but how dothese things all come together?
(41:29):
So I love that stuff, you knowwhat I mean?
So hit me up.
Host (41:33):
You mentioned LinkedIn.
Are you open to connections?
Guest (41:36):
Absolutely, but I like low-key, hate LinkedIn.
I don't post there very often,so I don't expect much, you
know.
Host (41:43):
It might be a little delay.
Uh well, so I always end with aquestion, and that is if you're
in a room full of businessowners, different sizes,
different industries, what isone thing that could be
applicable to all of them?
It could be a quote, a book,insight, a tip.
Guest (42:02):
In this year of uncertainty, in every single
corner of the world that youlook in, focus on relation
relationships and authenticitybecause that's all that's gonna
matter.
And and really look at supplyand demand this year, you know,
because everything is gonnachange, budgets are drying up,
everything is changing.
So stay true to yourself andfollow the trends because all we
(42:28):
got is each other.
What worked last year ain'tgonna work next year, you know.
Host (42:31):
That's right.
Seems to be changing ever sincethe COVID, so uh just stay on
top of it.
But I love that.
Be yourself.
Guest (42:38):
Be yourself because that's what that's what drives
it, right?
Like, you know, at the end ofthe day, if somebody's gonna
spend some money with you, it'sbecause they like you.
We don't hire people that wedon't like, you know.
So be yourself becausesomebody's gonna like you, and
you don't need everybody to likeyou.
You need your the right clientsto like you.
You they want you to know thatyou're knowledgeable, but they
also want to like you becausethen when they like you and you
(42:59):
like your clients, then you wantto see them win and you love
your job and you get excitedwhen you're like, oh, so-and-so
just booked a catch-up call withme.
I can't wait to see her onThursday.
Wildly different than like, ohshh, you know what I mean?
Like, oh, you know, like startthere.
And so by being yourself,you're gonna attract the right
people, and when you're notyourself, you're gonna attract
(43:20):
people that you don't that youdon't like, and you don't want
clients that you don't like.
Host (43:24):
Uh, it makes for a miserable day for sure.
Well, Molly, you've been ablessing to many and a wealth of
information.
I wish you continued success,and I look forward to keeping in
touch with you.
Guest (43:37):
Likewise.
Thank you so much for havingme.
It's a great way to spend anafternoon.
Host (43:40):
My pleasure.
Thank you for listening toSmall Business Pivots.
This podcast is created andproduced by my company, Boss.
Our business is growing yours.
Boss offers flexible businessloans with business coaching
support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as twenty four to forty-eighthours at business ownership
(44:03):
simplified.com.
If you're enjoying thispodcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share itas well.
If you need help growing yourbusiness, email me at Michael at
michaeldmors.com.
We'll see you next time onSmall Business Pivots.
All right.
Welcome to another SmallBusiness Pivots.
Today we have another specialguest from around the world.
And as you know, if you'velistened or watched the podcast,
you know that I feel like thebusiness owner is the only one
that can say their name andtheir business like the business
owner.
So I let you have the stagereal quick to introduce
yourself, where you're coming tous from, and just a little bit
(00:21):
about you.
Guest (00:22):
Right on.
Well, my name is Molly Ruland.
I am the CEO and founder ofHeartcast Media, which is a full
service podcast productionagency.
We focus on podcast production,podcast booking, and podcast
growth.
And we also build websitesbecause uh it's like candy in
the checkout aisle.
You know, no matter how goodyour website is, you're gonna
need a new one before you knowit.
(00:42):
So um I'm based in Costa Rica,but the business is based in
Washington, D.C.
I moved here in the pandemic,uh, converted my very brick and
mortar business into a virtualone, and decided that I would uh
take advantage of uh workingremotely.
And I moved to Costa Rica andI'm still here.
Host (01:01):
So and for those if you're only listening, go watch it on
YouTube so you can see thebeautiful scenery behind her,
and then you'll know why shemoved there.
So we're gonna introduce the uhpodcast real quick and we'll be
right back.
Welcome to Small BusinessPivots, a podcast produced for
small business owners.
I'm your host, MichaelMorrison, founder and CEO of
(01:25):
Boss, where we make businessownership simplified for
success.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as 24 to 48 hours at businessownership simplified.com.
(01:48):
All right, welcome back toSmall Business Pivots.
So, podcast is a big, bigthing.
I know that we have a lot oflisteners.
Some of them have a podcast,some of them started one and
quit, uh, others haven't startedone.
So let's just dive right in.
But first, I know our listenerslike to know just a little bit
of background about the personthey're listening to.
(02:10):
So you got any good stories ofyour upbringing of how you got
to where you are today.
Guest (02:17):
I blame it on the Irish.
Uh, I I grew up in a very Irishhousehold.
I grew up uh listening to, youknow, Irish dancing and playing
Irish uh musical instruments.
I could play the concertina uhas a child.
I danced at the White House forRonald Reagan a few times when
I was a child.
Uh and yeah, grew up in a veryIrish family.
We're all about, you know,bootlegging, bartending,
(02:39):
entertaining, music, dancing,and all that good stuff.
So uh it was kind of in myblood.
So I've owned a multimediacompany for the last 25 years,
uh, and I've always just been aconnector.
So prior to forming HeartcastMedia seven years ago, uh, I was
based in DC and owned a companythat was primarily focused on
building community through art,music, and culture.
(03:00):
Uh so I managed 160 artists, Ibuilt recording studios, podcast
studios, uh, recorded bands,was live streaming everybody in
2016 when nobody was home.
Uh and uh yeah, cut my teeth ona lot of things, but formed
Heartcast Media in 2018, uh,just because I I grew a little
bit and wanted to work withdifferent people and wanted to
(03:21):
take the skills that I learnedfrom doing everything with no
money, no support, uh, andsometimes illegally, uh, you
know, to get the job done andthen moving into the business
world and just recognizing, youknow, you you see these young
kids make masterpieces withiPhones and no money, and then
you go in the business world andyou're like, you paid $15,000
for that video.
(03:41):
It's the worst thing I've everseen.
Like, who did that?
And you're like, Ted from IT.
Like, of course he did.
Why is Ted from IT making yourbrand videos?
You know what I mean?
Like, there's a problem.
And so I came into it like thisidea that you could make
sustainable and good contentthat was attractive and
appealing, but it was alsoeffective, and it doesn't have
to cost a million dollars.
And there's a middle groundthere, which most business
(04:02):
owners fall into where you needgood content, but you're not
spending 10 grand a video.
Host (04:06):
Absolutely.
Well, let's uh get right intopodcasts because it's a hot
topic.
I know there's a lot ofdifferences of opinions.
Is it dead?
Is it still popular?
Why do so many hit it big andnot?
So, where do you think kind ofthe the basics of starting with
a podcast for our listeners?
Where do you think we couldstart with?
Guest (04:28):
I mean, to me, everything is about relationships and like
having a podcast will reallyenrich your life.
And I know you can relate tothat.
Like, I'm sure you've done someinterviews where you're like,
that was awesome.
Like, I really like that guy orthat lady, or you've done
business with them, or you justfelt heard or seen or validated.
And I think that the worldneeds a lot more of that
relationship building right now,um, and longer form
(04:50):
conversations, I think is reallyimperative for like our society
as a whole, to be honest.
Um, and I just think thatthere's something really amazing
about the democratization ofinformation.
Like, I've always been kind ofobsessed with pirate radio and
those things.
And the fact that like you canjust plug in the microphone and
say what you want to say andpublish it on Substack and get
(05:10):
in front of thousands of peoplefor free is really fascinating,
right?
And especially at a time whenfree speech uh ain't so free no
more.
You know what I mean?
Uh, you know, it it mattersmore than ever to have this
medium where we can likeactually share thoughts and
feelings and everything else.
From a business perspective, Ithink it's an excellent way to
(05:32):
fill your pipeline, but you haveto be really intentional and
strategic about who you'reinterviewing and why.
And I think a lot of peoplehave it wrong where it's all
about the audience and you know,go on other people's podcasts
and tap into their audience.
It's like, no, man, I'm goingon your podcast.
I'm not, I hope your audiencelikes what I have to say and I
provide value, right?
But I'm here for you.
I'm here to hang out with youtoday and to have a conversation
(05:53):
with you.
And I'm sure that I will seeyou again.
Maybe I'll see you at aconvention, maybe I'll invite
you to, you know what I mean?
Like it's the beginning of arelationship.
And then if your audience feelsthat, then they're gonna enjoy
our conversation more.
But to me, it's about you, it'snot about tapping into your
audience.
That feels gross, to be honest.
You know what I mean?
Host (06:13):
Like that's not it.
I I love what you just saidbecause no one else has ever
said that.
And when I'm asked what's myfavorite part about the podcast,
is I get to meet people that Iwould have never met if I had
just sent a cold email, made acold call.
They say yes almost every timeto be on the podcast and have a
(06:34):
conversation.
And I do continue therelationship FYI with those that
I have on the podcast, sothat's uh very powerful, as well
as I feel like I'm getting kindof a mastermind.
So, like we have mastermindgroups, you know.
I'm like, I'm learning frompeople all around the world that
are 10x more than me, more thanI might ever be getting
insights, and so I just thinkthat's super cool.
(06:56):
So, where would you like tostart with the podcast?
Because your company does a lotof things.
So, do you want to kind offocus on your company and how it
helps people, or do you justwant to talk podcast in general?
Guest (07:07):
Well, I mean you know, I would always love for people to
hire me, but I think thisinformation could be valuable
for everybody.
But I I think it starts withstrategy with your why, right?
And I I'm not a big fan ofSimon Sinek or whatever his name
is, but you got to start withyour why.
Why do you want to have apodcast?
What where is the goalpost?
Because you can't kick the balldown the field if you don't
even know where the goalpost is.
So let's start there, right?
(07:28):
So is it to get brandvisibility?
Well, you got to put some moneybehind those episodes because
as you know, you could put yourheart and soul into something
and get seven downloads on it ifyou're lucky, right?
So, like it's not justautomatic visibility, you get
more visibility doing a TikTok.
So that's not the right answer,right?
Or the whole answer.
Um, if you're doing it for yourbusiness, that's one thing.
(07:50):
If you're doing it forpersonal, that's another, right?
So I think it's like startingwith that, and then who's gonna
do the podcast and what doessuccess look like?
And then who are youinterviewing?
Well, there's you know, somepeople on LinkedIn with lots of
followers.
Well, what does that have to dowith your business, right?
Or I want to do a podcast aboutresilience.
Okay, what does that have to dowith plumbing?
You know what I mean?
What how does that relate,right?
Like, uh, you know, let'sreally get into are you trying
(08:13):
to please an audience thatdoesn't exist that might never
hire you?
Are you trying to create apodcast that is what people want
in a podcast, or are you gonnacreate a podcast that you can be
passionate about?
And I think the answer shouldalways be passionate about it.
And it could be in a very likevanilla way.
So, for example, I have apodcast, camp content.
I turn people into campcounselors and cartoons, and we
(08:33):
talk about content marketing.
I only interview CMOs andfractional CMOs.
Why?
Because they understandmarketing, we're gonna have a
good conversation, they tend tohave a better sense of humor,
and they have clients.
And fractional CMOs usuallyhave multiple clients.
And the best way to show peoplehow you work is to show them
how you work.
So they get invited on mypodcast.
It's you know, a funnyone-liner, cold email.
(08:54):
They're like, Okay, I see whatyou're doing here, but I'm in.
They they go through theprocess, it's really simple.
They come on the show, I dothis great introduction, right?
By the end, they're like, bythe way, I checked out your
raids and services.
I think I have two clients foryou every single time, right?
But part of the reason isbecause we spend 20 minutes
talking about content marketing,which I know it very well.
I've been doing it for 25years.
(09:16):
I'm not faking the funk talkingabout resilience because I
don't really care aboutresilience.
Okay, it's resilient to get outof bed every day at this point.
You know what I mean?
We're all there, right?
Like I need, I you know what Imean, and that's not gonna move
the needle because I don't own abusiness that does anything
about resilience.
I own a business that producescontent.
So I want to talk aboutcontent, you know?
And so I think it's like, youknow, finding like something you
(09:40):
can get into, but also makingsure that it can fill your
pipeline or that you're talkingto people that are aggregators.
So, like um, if you do, ifyou're, you know, sell
insurance, then talk to somebodywho has a newsletter, a
substack about insurance.
Talk to people that can get youone to many kind of thing.
And then sometimes, yeah, youinterview your buddy, or
(10:00):
sometimes you interview somebodywith a big following on
LinkedIn.
But at the end of the day, Ifeel like episodes should be
considered warm leads, but notin like a douchey way where I'm
gonna hit you with a salesproposal afterwards.
No, I just want to talk topeople in my industry that
relate to me, that have a senseof humor and potentially have
clients that they might refer tome one day, right?
I get content out of it, Ibuild new relationships, and I'm
(10:23):
having a good time because CMOsare typically sarcastic and
jaded.
Host (10:30):
Well, having a good time is important because it can be
daunting and uh with all theediting and scheduling and all
that cool stuff.
So it's like that's the I havenot got burnt out yet.
For those that are listening,we're at about I think this is
about a hundred hundred andtwenty-fifth episode, uh
recording-wise, and and I'mstill having fun, which is which
(10:52):
is awesome.
Yeah, I know people thatstarted and did three and
they're done.
They're like, that was too muchwork.
It was I'm like, well, then youwere probably doing it for the
wrong reason.
Guest (11:02):
Well, you're doing it for the wrong reason, and then the
second thing I always say isoutsource, you know what I mean?
Because like, don't be so hardon yourself.
Like, you can't, you know,people go to school to be an
audio engineer.
Like, I know in this world ofAI, they're like, put it in
there and AI will editeverything.
All right, okay, but it's notgonna be good.
There's a reason why MPR spends$60,000 an episode, that's why
(11:24):
they win all the awards, right?
There's a middle ground there,and so to expect yourself to be
good at audio engineering, videoediting, copywriting, you know
what I mean?
Like it's it's a lot.
And so I always say, outsourceit and do all that, give the
busy work to somebody else sothat you can focus on who you're
interviewing and then thefollow-up.
Because too many people arelike, okay, next episode, next
(11:45):
episode, and then they don'teven email and say, Tom, thanks
for coming on the show lastweek.
I really enjoyed my time.
By the way, would you mindmaking that introduction?
Can I get 20 minutes for ameeting?
Would you join my board ofdirectors?
Would you make a donation?
Whatever it is that you'redoing, but nobody ever does
that.
No one ever does that.
And they're just like on to thenext, right?
Which is a societal issue thatwe're having.
(12:06):
More, more, more volume, goviral.
Listen, you don't want to goviral, man.
It sucks.
Going viral is the worst thingthat could happen to you, right?
It's not what people think itis.
So it's like focus on therelationship.
And what I see is peoplegetting really bogged down and
the admin of it, the show notes,you know, especially in
internally in companies, becauseit's like those are different
(12:28):
departments.
So now this project has to goover here, and then now it's got
to go to this other department,and now it's got to go to
another department.
And the episode is four and ahalf weeks old, and now your
marketing team that you'repaying 100K a year, just spent
doing something that you couldhave paid somebody a few bucks
to do, and you've missed, youknow what I mean?
And now you're not hit, youknow what I mean?
(12:49):
You you're you're jumping theshark, you're missing the point.
Outsource, have that donereally well, and then focus on
nurturing that relationship,following up with them.
You know what I mean?
Focus on the content, askinggood questions, focus on the
things that matter and not onthe minutiae of it, right?
Like you do you do your own oilchanges, you're gonna file your
taxes this year, you're gonnaplay the violin at the company
(13:10):
reception later.
Like, you know, take it easy,killer.
Like, leave something for therest of us and focus on what
you're good at, especially in acompany.
You know, don't saddle yourmarketing team to do stuff that
they don't do.
That's not fair, you know?
Host (13:24):
Yeah.
What does your what does yourcompany do?
So I see you do a lot ofthings, but how can you help
those businesses?
Guest (13:32):
Well, we do everything, we do all that stuff for you.
We create it, we create acustom trello board, we design
your logo, we create the wholeproject, we design all your
assets, all your templates, wedo outreach for you, we'll line
up the guests for you onLinkedIn, we'll grow your
LinkedIn profile, we'll do theguest prep, we'll edit
everything, we'll engineer,we'll be there on the recording,
and then we'll clean everythingup and take out care of
(13:52):
everything, show notes, YouTube.
I mean, literally everythingyou could think of.
You know, in a guest graphic,episode graphic, quote graphic,
YouTube graphic, blog posts onyour website.
Everything is done for you, andit's done in five business
days.
So that way you can just focuson who you're interviewing and
then how to really show up thereand get it done.
And it's not that expensive.
We charge $650 an episode to doall that.
(14:15):
Eight people are working onyour episodes, right?
But now you've got fivedifferent graphics you can
share.
You've got a blog post, you'vegot metadata you could turn into
a newsletter on LinkedIn,you've got opportunities to tag
that guest on LinkedIn inmultiple locations.
You have an opportunity toemail that guest and say, thanks
for coming on the show.
Here's a folder full of assets.
Thanks for coming on the show.
(14:35):
I'm gonna tag you on LinkedIn,right?
It gives you it fills yourcontent calendar, it should fill
your pipeline, it should do allof those things, right?
And then you can focus on whatis the best way to use these
graphics instead of focusing onwho's gonna make the graphics,
right?
Yeah, and so it's kind of ashift, but that only works if
you're going into it like who amI interviewing?
(14:56):
Because if you're justinterviewing popular people on
LinkedIn, you're not gonna getany ROI out of that.
But if you're interviewingpeople that are adjacent to your
business, then they're going toinstinctively want to help you
when the thing is over, right?
Like they're gonna say, Man,this is so much fun.
I really enjoyed hanging outwith you, Michael.
You thank you so much for allthe love you gave hardcast
media.
How can I help you?
What kind of clients are youlooking to coach?
(15:17):
I'm instinctively wanting to dothat because you have a warm
personality, you're showing somuch love to my business.
Of course I'm gonna want tohelp you out, right?
You know, so I think peopleneed to be way more intentional
about that.
And like, don't worry aboutdownloads, don't worry about the
algorithm, don't worry aboutany of that.
The only person that matters isthe person across from the
table.
Period.
And when that person matters,then the content is good.
Host (15:39):
Speaking of content, what makes a good podcast?
Like, I because we do have alot of listeners that's never
done a podcast, and they'relike, I can never get in front
of a video, I don't know whatquestions to ask.
And of course, there's allkinds of courses, there's all
kinds of YouTube's, and they allsay something differently.
So, in your opinion, what whatmakes a good podcast?
Do they have to pre-write thequestions, share that with the
(16:00):
other guest?
I mean, what's what what makesit good?
Guest (16:04):
Yes and no.
I think being prepared is isimportant, but when you prepare
too many questions, you getpigeonholed in that, and then
you're so focused on when theperson's gonna stop talking so
you can ask the question and youforget to listen and then just
roll with it.
So I would say the mostimportant thing is a good
introduction or like makingpeople feel welcome, right?
That is like starting off goodhelps, right?
(16:26):
Like bringing people's barrierdown helps, and then just be
yourself, be 100 your percentyourself unapologetically all
the time.
I'm a ridiculous person, right?
My backup plan is stand-upcomedy.
I know that I'm not foreverybody, and I'm totally cool
with that.
Took a long time to bake thiscake, and I'm not gonna pretend
I'm somebody else when I'm on anepisode.
You know what I mean?
And I think people find thatendearing and they appreciate
(16:50):
it.
And sometimes I say the thingsthat people wish they could say,
but they work for corporateAmerica, so they just enjoy
being around it and not gettinginto trouble for it, right?
So just be authentic, but talkabout something you actually
care about because that's gonnashine through when you when you
know, we've all listened topodcast episodes, and you're
like, oh god, this is painful.
That guy just paid to be on theshow or something because the
(17:12):
host isn't into it, he's goingthrough the motions, he's
clearly not prepared, right?
You can feel all those things,but like somebody listening to
this episode is gonna be like,Man, she's a firecracker.
This is a great likeconversation is going, we're
bopping back and forth, there'sno lull here.
Like, we're clearly interestedin our topic.
I think that's good content,right?
Host (17:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you promised you wouldkeep this PG, I think.
So now I didn't know what thatmeant up front, but now I do.
Guest (17:43):
Yeah, just less cursing.
That's all.
I was gonna come from a longline of sailors and bartenders
and bootleggers.
It's in my DNA to curse.
So uh, but I I I reel it in onother people's podcasts.
Host (17:54):
Well, so I kind of look at podcasting when I know when I
first started, which was I'mstill pretty young at this three
years ago, maybe.
I think we started three and ahalf years, maybe.
But I know I was like, howmany, how many should I do?
How often?
I mean, what are some tips likethat that can really help
somebody?
Because I'm a big believer in,like you said, have a reason why
(18:14):
you're doing it, know yourpurpose, know your why, have all
that figured out.
So, what are some good tips forsomebody to be thinking about
up front?
Guest (18:23):
Well, I think that you should only do something when
you have something of value toadd, right?
Like I have a LinkedInnewsletter, I only write in it
when I actually have somethingto say.
And if I don't, then I'm notputting something out for the
sake of putting it out becausesome to person told me I have to
do it every two weeks.
Nobody wants to read somethingthat doesn't have any heart in
it.
So maybe it'll be two monthsbefore my next one.
(18:44):
Maybe it'll be next Tuesday.
No one knows, and that's whatit is, right?
And I think that my newslettersubscribers appreciate that
about me because they don't justthey're I'm not training them
to delete my content everyTuesday morning at 11 or
whatever, right?
Yeah.
Um, with podcasts, if you'redoing it for your business, look
at it as warm leads and crankthrough those.
(19:04):
Do 12 episodes in two months,so then release them however you
want.
But like, you don't want onewarm lead a month, do you?
I want six this month and sixnext month, and I want to
nurture the hell out of thoseand fill my pipeline and go on
hey, this was my podcast andnurture those leads and get them
in my funnel somehow, right?
And then when things slow downagain, do another season.
(19:26):
That's how I look at having apodcast to fill your pipeline.
If you want to be a podcaster,that is totally different.
That means you got to be doingweekly episodes at a certain
time, you need to be paying formarketing, you need to be
putting money behind it.
Like none of that is organic.
So you have to decide if youwant to be a podcaster or if
you're trying to fill yourpipeline because they're two
(19:48):
different things.
Host (19:49):
Yeah.
Well, that brings up the nextquestion.
On the most of the forums orthe groups on Facebook that have
anything to do with podcasting,I would say most of the
questions asked are how do Igrow my podcast?
In other words, I'm onlygetting you know 20 downloads
(20:10):
for every episode, and somebodywill always chime, well, I just
got 20,000 on mine.
And what how does what's thedifference between all these
downloads and why does itmatter?
You're well, honesty, let'sstart there.
Guest (20:21):
That dude was lying, okay, because ain't nobody ain't
nobody getting 20k downloads onan episode and hanging out in
Facebook groups for podcasting.
Period.
Period.
Because the seventh circle ofhell is Facebook groups about
podcasting.
Okay, it's like literally theworst place.
It's a lot of really nicepeople and a lot of really angry
men who are wildly wrong aboutthings and jerks about it.
(20:42):
I'm like, listen, you caneither be wrong or a jerk, but
you don't get to be both, okay?
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Like these guys, and you'relike, dude, things have changed
in the last 40 years, like angrysound man, like reel it in a
little bit, you know what Imean?
Um, and so I would say, like,don't compare yourself to other
people is the number one thing,right?
Also, like understanding likethe depth, right?
(21:04):
Like, you're like, oh, I onlyhave 50 downloads.
If you had 50 people waiting tohear you speak in a room, you'd
be nervous as hell, okay?
Like, don't underestimate.
Like, we live in this societywhere if it's not like super big
numbers and a million that youyou don't want that.
That's not realistic.
And if you get what I thinkit's like if you get 100
downloads in your podcast in thefirst seven days, you're in the
top like 20% of podcasts.
(21:25):
So like you have to understandthe metrics, okay?
So a lot of those people arelying, and then the other thing
is like it either takes a reallylong time, right?
Because I and I'm sure you canattest to that.
I'm sure you have crickets onsome of your episodes, but then
sometimes as you grow, peopleare listening to old episodes
too, right?
So it just takes some time, butif you really want to grow your
(21:48):
numbers, it honestly takes painadvertising.
Like, none of these people withbig downloads are doing that
organically.
Like, don't be fooled by that.
Like, there's a lot of moneygoing into those campaigns,
those billboards for podcastscost money, right?
Like, none of those people aregetting organic downloads,
except for Joe Rogan, becausehe's been doing it forever,
right?
He, but that's not that's heyou just take him out of the
(22:09):
experiment.
That is not normal, okay?
Everybody else is paying, it'sall pay to play.
And so, like, if you're gettingany traction at all, then
you're doing really well, right?
But you have to consider likewhat is well, you know, a
hundred downloads on an episodein the first seven days is
solid.
It, I mean, it doesn't seemlike it, but it is solid.
(22:30):
That is way different thanboosted up vanity metrics with
impressions and this on social.
But what does it really mean?
And then the other question Iwould ask is why do you want
more downloads?
What does that more downloadsrepresent to you?
Is it because you want peopleto sign up for your funnel to go
into coaching more?
Is it because you want more,like, why do you want more
downloads, right?
To me, with camp content, Inever even checked the
(22:54):
downloads.
I didn't care because I wasn'tgetting business from the
downloads.
I was getting business from thepeople I was interviewing, so I
never even bothered to look atthe downloads because that
wasn't the metric.
The metric was where they'recalling me and setting up
discovery calls and referring meto their clients.
That had nothing to do with mydownloads, right?
It's like they it's like afitness coach will tell you
don't get on the scale everyday.
(23:14):
It's kind of the same, it'syour phone ringing, you know
what I mean?
Host (23:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Would you say that when peopleare so we'll say all that stuff
is bunk, but to groworganically, would you say it
might be equal or it might beone or more or the other, but
would you say optimization ofall the description, all that is
as important as the promotion,vice versa, which is kind of how
(23:40):
can you organically growquicker?
Guest (23:43):
I I would say it's more important, and I'm so glad you
asked me that question because Ithink SEO is one thing that's
not talked about enough inpodcasting, and like everything
in life is SEO.
If you really want to improveyour business, it's SEO.
Host (23:55):
Marketing is You're listening to Small Business
Pivots.
This podcast is produced by mycompany, Boss.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as twenty four to forty-eighthours at business ownership
(24:16):
simplified.com.
If you're enjoying thispodcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share itas well.
Now let's get back to ourspecial guest.
How can you organically growquicker?
Guest (24:29):
I I would say it's more important, and I'm so glad you
asked me that question because Ithink SEO is one thing that's
not talked about enough inpodcasting, and like everything
in life is SEO.
If you really want to improveyour business, it's SEO.
Marketing is like pissing intothe wind, honestly, in a lot of
cases, right?
So I think SEO is where it'sat.
So SEO optimizing your shownotes, your key takeaways, your
(24:53):
timestamps, using long tailkeywords.
You know, like when we use ourAI, I'm like, no, do not use a
single adjective.
I only want long tail keywords.
So don't say we're gonna have awe're gonna deep dive and delve
into this fabulous conversationwith this magnificent person.
No, we're talking about digitaltransformation in the age of AI
with this financial expert.
Like, I don't don't give me anyfluff.
Everything should be SEOkeyword optimized, right?
(25:14):
And with AI, you can do that.
You can say, hey, um, you canask them a series of questions
before they come on yourpodcast.
What's your greatest personalachievement?
Your bio, what's your greatestprofessional achievement?
Um, what are you the most proudof?
You know, whatever.
You can ask them a bunch ofquestions, right?
And then you can throw thatinto AI and you can say, now
optimize this, or you can takethe transcription and you can
say optimize this for these fivekeywords and write the
(25:36):
description that way.
And then you can take that andput that as a blog post on your
website.
And so now when people aresearching digital transformation
and fintech, you know, yours isgonna come up, which is gonna
be way more valuable than youposting on social media, to be
honest, right?
I got 60,000 followers on mycombined social media accounts.
They are 100% limiting women'svoices on LinkedIn.
(25:59):
I have 6,000 followers onthere.
I'll post something, I'll get12 impressions.
Comment on a man's post, I getthousands, right?
The whole system is riggedagainst us.
So I think social media is kindof a waste of time, to be
honest, which is crazy as amarketing person, you know, to
say that.
But in the last year, I'vereally just figured out that
like SEO, AEO, and GEO.
(26:22):
Search engine optimization,answer engine optimization, and
I can't remember what the G is.
I just learned it like 10minutes ago in a company
meeting.
So I'll get back to you know,but like the world is changing.
Like, you know how when youGoogle something and it gives
you the AI answer.
Well, now we gotta we gottaoptimize things for answer
engines.
So that's that's what youshould be telling your GPT hey,
(26:43):
take this transcription andoptimize it for AEO.
Now take this transcription andoptimize it for this.
But yes, 100%.
Because when people areGoogling those words, you want
to come up.
That's how people really findyou.
All my business is inbound.
I get two, three discoverycalls a week for podcast booking
because people Google podcastbooking and we come up and they
(27:04):
come to our website and theylike what they see and they book
a meeting.
I put out stuff to 16,000people about podcast booking, I
get nothing.
I get absolutely nothingbecause seven people saw it.
Host (27:13):
Yeah.
People talk a lot aboutmonetizing their podcast.
What does that really mean inthe podcast world?
Because I think most people arejust thinking like Joe Rogan
makes a comfortable living doinghis podcast.
I don't know if that's whatpeople are thinking about or if
they're thinking about ads.
I think about it as generatingleads, but what is your opinion
(27:35):
on that?
Guest (27:36):
Well, it's all about like collateral benefits, right?
Like, which is really a bankingterm, but I think it relates.
Monetization comes in manyforms.
And maybe it means you wereasked to speak on a panel
because somebody heard you on apodcast.
Maybe it means um your phone isringing.
Maybe it means, like, forexample, I did an interview with
a guy on my podcast and he hitme up and he's doing a podcast
(27:58):
for Accenture about automationand designing um whatever, huge
uh engines to build stuff, youknow, uh workflows.
And and he wants me to be thehost, right?
Which is hilarious because Iwas so irreverent on my podcast.
I'm like, you guys want me tobe an engineering podcast host?
I'm like, you know what you'regetting into, but I'm strangely
very interested in engineeringand manufacturing and those
(28:20):
things too.
So I'm like kind of into it,right?
Because they build like supplychains.
So I'm like, I would totally dothat.
But that's an opportunity thatcame to me, and that's
Accenture.
That's a nice little gig.
That's a few bucks in my pocketnext year to do something I
really enjoy doing, and thatcame from that podcast.
So when you're looking atmonetization, you have to look
at it from a lot of differentangles.
And I think people think,download one dollar down, you
(28:43):
know, like it's not that linear,man.
It it's gonna come in all kindsof other ways, you know.
And sometimes you do get lucky.
Like I was on the sales gravypodcast and it went live last
week, and I've gotten like threeor four calls from that, which
is like that never happens,right?
But like that's super cool.
That's a win, right?
That's that's totally a win,you know, as far as I'm gonna
(29:05):
that's monetization right there.
And maybe it's not direct, butlike one day that I'll get a
referral from that, or maybeit'll happen right away.
But I think it's not so causeand effect.
I think it's like you have toreally step back and go, well,
wait, why was I asked to be onthat panel?
Why was I approached to do thatkeynote thing?
Why was I asked to be on theboard of directors?
Well, maybe because they heardyou talking somewhere.
Host (29:28):
Yeah.
I know that it's easier towell, let me back up.
I know that more people reachout to us to be on our show, and
it's harder to get on otherpeople's shows because they're
getting inundated with so manyrequests as well.
How can one break through thatice?
Have you got any tips there?
Guest (29:48):
Well, 100% relationships, but I'm a I'm a big fan of the
Loom.
Are you familiar with Loomvideos?
Oh, yes.
Okay, so it's a littlepsychological hack.
If you open up somebody Else'swebsite and you record a loom
with their website as thescreenshot, they're gonna hit
play.
So if you really wanna like cutthrough the noise, make a
(30:12):
30-second pitch for everypodcast you're going on.
Hey Tom, don't delete this.
I'm a real person didn't makethis with AI.
I'm putting my hat in a ring.
I know you're inundated withthese all day, but I promise I
won't suck.
And here's three reasons whyI'd be a great guest.
Listen, that's a little effortin that, but I guarantee you
they're gonna watch it andyou're gonna be notified if
they've watched it and they'regonna go, oh my god, I get so
many crappy pitches all day.
Thank you so much.
(30:32):
This actually made me laugh,and you're gonna stand out from
the noise.
That's a great way to like doit yourself for very for zero
dollars.
The other thing I would say ishire somebody.
You know, like there's a reasonwhy artists have booking
agents.
We get you more, we get you onbetter stuff, you know what I
mean?
We get you paid, you know, likewe we have more relationships,
right?
Because I can call and say,hey, Tom, I got another one for
(30:56):
you, versus your pitch is gonnago into the pile with the other
99 they got that day, you know,for the thing.
So if you can't afford to hiresomebody, the loom is a great
one.
Host (31:09):
That's awesome.
Guest (31:09):
And then like I said, you put their website on it because
aren't wouldn't you?
If you like saw a loom videoand it was your website, of
course you're gonna hit play,right?
And then you could be like,aha, I got you.
And then they'll be like, okay,that was act, that was actually
clever.
Now you stand out, you've builta relationship, you might get
through.
They might delete it too, butlike that's a really low-cost
way to like stand out from themadness.
Host (31:32):
And so, what does it look like?
You said it was about 650 anepisode at this time.
Right now we're at Q3 2025.
So, what does it look like tohire someone to get you on
shows?
What is that process?
Guest (31:46):
So it's kind of similar.
We do an onboarding thing.
I ask you a ton of questions.
I build a very beautiful mediakit for you with like 10 topics
you're ready to cover, 10questions you're ready to
answer, potential episodetopics, keywords, bio, and high
quality pictures.
And then we build a custompitch and we build a custom list
for you.
So we take all these datapoints and we go and we say, All
(32:07):
right, here's the first 40podcasts we're gonna pitch you
on, and here's our pitch.
And then they say, Okay, and wejust hit the ground running.
So we have we have the bigdatabase that everybody else
has.
Nobody's unique in that we allhave the same information,
right?
They'll tell you they havewhatever, but it's a lie.
So everybody can access that.
Then we have our always a list,a yes list, and that's people
(32:28):
we've already booked onpodcasts, right?
I suspect if I hit you up,Michael, and I was like, dude, I
got the perfect guy for you,you're gonna be open for it
because I know you now and Iknow who you want to talk to,
and of course you're gonnalisten to that more than
somebody else, right?
So that's our always a yeslist.
And then we've got ourready-to-be pitched because I do
things a little differently.
I reach out to people and Isay, Are you open to pitches?
I'm a podcast productioncompany.
(32:48):
I got a few in the top 10.
It's not my main jam, but I gotsome solid people.
Are you interested?
And I get people and they say,Oh my god, thank you so much for
asking, instead of just sendingme slop.
And like, this is actually theexact person we're looking for.
And I go, fantastic.
Don't have them right now, butwhen I do, I'll send them to you
because I'm not gonna send yousomebody.
And they go, Thank you so much.
(33:09):
You're awesome.
Have a great day, right?
Change the whole relationshipright there.
Now they're ready, they'relooking out for my pitches,
right?
So every day, every week, we'rejust growing our always a yes
and our ready-to-go list atevery possible moment, and then
just building our relationships,you know, with people.
Because once you're in, you'rein.
So I spent 20 years puttingpeople on stages.
(33:29):
I booked people fromWashington, D.C.
on stages at South bySouthwest, right?
And it's what I did for a very,very long time.
And so it was about two yearsago that I was like, why am I
not doing this in the podcastspace?
Because nobody's getting itwrong with these VAs and these
AI pitches and pitching fintechpeople on life coach podcasts.
And I'm like, what is you know,this is a mess, right?
And I know you get a lot ofthose.
(33:50):
You're like, why do you evenwant to do that every hour?
It doesn't make any sense.
Yeah.
And so I was like, I'm gonnathrow my hat in the ring and do
this a little different.
And you know, selfishly, I wantto be like the go in five
years.
I want to be like, Oh, youbetter, if you want to get
somebody on insert name, yougotta call Molly.
I want to be like, you know, Ido, and I'm gonna get there
because it's all aboutrelationships.
(34:11):
But I'm also really invested.
I go to podcast conventions, Ispeak at podcast conventions, I
have podcasts, I have a podcastcompany, right?
So if you're gonna hiresomebody, I would start with
somebody that's knowledgeablebecause PR companies are trying
to get their nope.
And I keep telling them, youstay out of PR, stay out of
podcasting, and I'll stay out ofPR, right?
You stay on your side of thefence, I'll stay on mine.
They're very, they're verysimilar, but totally different
(34:33):
beasts.
So, like, let's just worktogether instead of against each
other.
And then you got a bunch oftech bros who are building all
these AI databases to get in,but that doesn't mean your pitch
is gonna get through.
It doesn't mean you have theright email.
It doesn't, you know what Imean?
These guys are just trying tomake a quick book, the companies
are gonna go under in twoyears, you know what I mean?
That that's not it.
Then you've got communities youcan join, like pod matching
(34:53):
stuff.
And I love Alex San Filippo,he's like one of my favorite
humans on the planet.
And if you're brand new, it's agreat place to start, but the
it's not gonna have likethousands of listeners on those
that you know, it's a good placeto cut your teeth and kind of
figure it out, but it's notthose, those aren't gonna move
the needle most of the time.
You get a lot of no-shows, youget a lot of new podcasters on
(35:13):
that.
You know what I mean?
So I would recommend hiring anagency.
There, it runs the gamut.
I had a meeting with somebodyand he was like, people are
telling me 10 grand a month.
I'm like, I'm 1200 a month or1900 a month, depending on how
many podcasts you want to getbooked on.
I to I told I told the guy tome, podcast booking is the
gateway drug to podcastproduction.
If I can get you into mycompany and you realize what a
(35:36):
great job we do on booking, thenthen you're gonna say, Well,
what else can you do?
Oh, you also do production.
Oh, you also build websites,oh, you can also edit my
webinars or my, you know what Imean?
Like, oh, you can dotestimonial videos for the
company.
Yep.
And so that's how we just sortof bring people into the folds,
right?
So to me, I don't need tocharge a lot of money.
And we also base our serviceson the approvals and not on
(35:57):
pitches, where other companieswill say we'll send out a
thousand pitches a month, butthere's no guarantees, which is
like I wish I if I could getpaid on my efforts, I'd be a
good billionaire, technicallyspeaking.
Host (36:10):
You know, I hadn't heard of that one.
I don't get paid that way.
Guest (36:13):
I know.
I was like, what Kool-Aid doesit now.
Uh my clients want results.
I don't know what clientsthey're talking to, but my
clients want actual results ifthey're paying that much money
to be on something, you know?
So um it's less than producingyour own episode, but then we
also will make 10 vertical clipsof your appearance once the
episode goes live that you canuse on your own social and
(36:35):
you're not waiting for the hostto send you those things.
So there's built-in um contentcreation there.
And then the last thing we dois we will run ads.
So, like let's say you go on apodcast and you're really jazzed
about it, and it was a greatconversation.
Well, we can run LinkedIn adsor Google ads, display ads on
that episode and all the placeswhere your potential um clients
are hanging out, and we canboost the downloads for the host
(36:58):
and boost visibility and giveyou all the analytic information
and demographic information onwho listened to your episode,
and that can help you retargetyour ads.
So we're going at it like very,very strategically to make sure
we don't waste anybody's time.
Host (37:14):
Is it better to I know you kind of touched on this
earlier, like if you have apodcast, know your audience
instead of just being oneveryone else's.
But I've noticed a trend, itseems like in the last six
months to a year, where peoplethat had podcasts are kind of
shelving their pausing theirpodcast and to go be a guest on
(37:35):
everybody else's.
In other words, they're notsharing your podcast, they're
just trying to be on so manypodcasts, and then after the
podcast is uploaded, they don'thelp you share it, all that good
stuff.
Are you kind of seeing thattrend?
And how can one overcome thoseobstacles?
Because it is a lot of timewhen someone says, Oh, and we've
got this big audience, we'llhelp you grow your show, and and
(37:55):
then crickets.
Guest (37:57):
Well, and I think that's the thing, it's like this dog
and pony show, right?
It's like bait and switch.
It's like you tap into otherpeople's audiences, and it's
it's just a it's a misnomer, youknow what I mean?
It's a misnomer.
It's like, and and a lot ofthose people, they're probably
not getting downloads on theirshow, so they're going on other
people's show to like ramp upthose downloads.
Host (38:17):
I love how you just cut to the chase.
Because so many of us, we seeall those 10x promises, and I
got 30,000 downloads, and andyou're just calling BS on all of
it.
So I I love that because itassures people like, don't
listen to the noise.
Find your why.
Guest (38:36):
Because like at the end of the day, right?
Like, if you own a brick andmortar like ice cream shop, you
need a lot of bodies comingthrough.
But the vast majority of us, ifwe got one new client a month,
it would impact your bottom linesignificantly, right?
Yeah, so this idea that yougotta reach a million people is
(38:56):
flawed.
No, you do not.
If if if you had a millionlisteners on this podcast and
and 50 people wanted to hire metomorrow, it would be a problem.
I could not handle that.
I am not what that I don't wantthat, okay?
You know, I don't.
I that would overwhelm my team.
I wouldn't be able to good do agood job for anybody.
(39:17):
Like that would put us at waycapacity.
Like this, you don't want whatyou think you want.
You know, if I walk away fromthis conversation today and I
gave some people some goodinformation, right?
Which I feel like we areproviding value for your
listeners, and me and you arefriendly, that's a win for me.
That's a that's a win, youknow, because you never know
where we might connect again, orI might send you somebody for
(39:41):
coaching, or you might send me,you know, you just never know.
And so I think it's like focuson small, focus on the
relationship, and then don'thave these big pie in the sky
ideas about going viral andreaching lots of people.
Like that's most of us would bevery stressed out if that
happened.
Host (40:00):
Yeah, well, and for those that have gone viral that I do
know that comes with problems,depositions, lawsuits, everybody
wants a piece of your fame.
So uh I know we're almost outof time, and I know you know a
lot more than what you've justshared in the 30, 40 minutes
we've been together.
So, how can someone follow you,engage with you, learn more,
(40:23):
get with your company?
Guest (40:25):
Uh well, go to the website, it's
heartcastmedia.com.
And if you go to forward slashfriends, because we're all
friends now, you can see mymeeting links and anything else
you might need to know, mysocial media, all that kind of
stuff.
Um, I love talking aboutpodcasting and I love strategy.
So if anybody wants to call meup and just like pick my brain
(40:46):
for a few minutes about somestuff, I'm happy to do that.
I'm not really if you want tostart a hobby podcast about
cats, like I'm probably not theright person for that because
I'm all about businessdevelopment, filling your
pipeline, strategy, intention.
If that's where you're leaning,I'm always happy to talk to
people and give them some ideas.
Um, sometimes, you know, one ofmy favorite quotes is you can't
(41:06):
read the label from inside thejar.
And sometimes you just needsomebody else to help you
shuffle your ideas.
And a lot of people are like, Iwant to do a podcast, but I
just it's just not clicking.
And a lot of times after a callwith me, it clicks, and then
they're ready to like make thatnext step because they're like
just it's like okay, but how dothese things all come together?
(41:29):
So I love that stuff, you knowwhat I mean?
So hit me up.
Host (41:33):
You mentioned LinkedIn.
Are you open to connections?
Guest (41:36):
Absolutely, but I like low-key, hate LinkedIn.
I don't post there very often,so I don't expect much, you
know.
Host (41:43):
It might be a little delay.
Uh well, so I always end with aquestion, and that is if you're
in a room full of businessowners, different sizes,
different industries, what isone thing that could be
applicable to all of them?
It could be a quote, a book,insight, a tip.
Guest (42:02):
In this year of uncertainty, in every single
corner of the world that youlook in, focus on relation
relationships and authenticitybecause that's all that's gonna
matter.
And and really look at supplyand demand this year, you know,
because everything is gonnachange, budgets are drying up,
everything is changing.
So stay true to yourself andfollow the trends because all we
(42:28):
got is each other.
What worked last year ain'tgonna work next year, you know.
Host (42:31):
That's right.
Seems to be changing ever sincethe COVID, so uh just stay on
top of it.
But I love that.
Be yourself.
Guest (42:38):
Be yourself because that's what that's what drives
it, right?
Like, you know, at the end ofthe day, if somebody's gonna
spend some money with you, it'sbecause they like you.
We don't hire people that wedon't like, you know.
So be yourself becausesomebody's gonna like you, and
you don't need everybody to likeyou.
You need your the right clientsto like you.
You they want you to know thatyou're knowledgeable, but they
also want to like you becausethen when they like you and you
(42:59):
like your clients, then you wantto see them win and you love
your job and you get excitedwhen you're like, oh, so-and-so
just booked a catch-up call withme.
I can't wait to see her onThursday.
Wildly different than like, ohshh, you know what I mean?
Like, oh, you know, like startthere.
And so by being yourself,you're gonna attract the right
people, and when you're notyourself, you're gonna attract
(43:20):
people that you don't that youdon't like, and you don't want
clients that you don't like.
Host (43:24):
Uh, it makes for a miserable day for sure.
Well, Molly, you've been ablessing to many and a wealth of
information.
I wish you continued success,and I look forward to keeping in
touch with you.
Guest (43:37):
Likewise.
Thank you so much for havingme.
It's a great way to spend anafternoon.
Host (43:40):
My pleasure.
Thank you for listening toSmall Business Pivots.
This podcast is created andproduced by my company, Boss.
Our business is growing yours.
Boss offers flexible businessloans with business coaching
support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as twenty four to forty-eighthours at business ownership
(44:03):
simplified.com.
If you're enjoying thispodcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share itas well.
If you need help growing yourbusiness, email me at Michael at
michaeldmors.com.
We'll see you next time onSmall Business Pivots.
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