April 23, 2025 • 43 mins
What separates truly successful business owners from those who stay stuck?
In this episode of Small Business Pivots, host Michael Morrison sits down with Andreas Pettersson, Founder of Leaders Adapt, to explore the real reasons why some entrepreneurs scale to success—while others spin their wheels. After helping grow a tech company to a nine-figure valuation, Andreas reveals that strategy and funding weren’t the magic ingredients. It was emotional intelligence, curiosity, and brutal self-honesty that made the difference.
"Curiosity is king," says Andreas, as he breaks down how fear-driven decisions can cost entrepreneurs time, money, and energy. Instead, he encourages business owners to ask themselves: “What if the opposite is true?”—a powerful mindset shift that prevents costly mistakes and uncovers hidden opportunities.
We also unpack the growth stages every business faces:
• From $0–$2M: founders must lead sales—no exceptions.
• From $2M–$10M: the right processes (not too many) are key.
• Beyond $10M: leadership development and culture define your ceiling.
Andreas shares three transformative exercises that helped him lead with clarity:
✅ Breaking negative thought spirals with the 5-second rule
✅ Recording positive feedback to fight negative bias
✅ Starting each day with visualization instead of screen-scrolling
Whether you're growing a business from scratch or scaling past $10 million, this episode will challenge how you think, lead, and make decisions.
🎙️ Listen now to hear Andreas Pettersson on Small Business Pivots with Michael Morrison—and discover how honest self-reflection can reignite your business growth.
Andreas Pettersson: Leaders Adapt, CEO & Co-Founder
Website: https://www.leadersadapt.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreastheceo/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@andreastheceo
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555794758899
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@andreastheceo
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreastheceo/
#SmallBusinessPivots #MichaelDMorrison #AndreasPettersson #LeadersAdapt #BusinessPodcast #BusinessCoach #SmallBusinessGrowth #EntrepreneurMindset #LeadershipDevelopment #EmotionalIntelligence #ScaleYourBusiness #BusinessStrategy #GrowYourBusiness #FounderJourney #OklahomaCity #BOSS #MindsetMatters #FromStartupToSuccess #EntrepreneurLife #SmallBusinessSuccess
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome to another Small Business Pivots.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We have another special guest from around the
world, and I know that businessowners are the best ones to
introduce themselves and theircompanies, so I'm going to let
you go ahead and introduceyourself, my friend moved to us
(00:29):
about 11 years ago and I've beena tech ceo, tech founder, um,
and I've been an executive for10 years and I made a lot of
mistakes uh, as someone whostarted from scratch and grew
the company to a nine-figurevaluation before it was merged,
and I decided to leave thatspace behind and go help others
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, how do you think we're going to help our
listeners today?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hopefully I will be able to show people the value of
being honest with yourself, thevalue of being vulnerable, and
then develop a deep emotionalintelligence when it comes to
leadership and how you dobusiness decisions, Because if
(01:10):
you truly understand yourself,you don't make as many
emotional-driven decisions andmore logical-driven decisions
that lead you to take action andget results way quicker.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's a good one, because I know a lot of business
owners who make what we callknee-jerk reactions and they
usually have to pay for it later.
So let's introduce the showreal quick and we'll be right
back.
Welcome to Small BusinessPivots, a podcast produced for
small business owners.
I'm your host, michael Morrison, founder and CEO of BOSS, where
(01:36):
we make business ownershipsimplified for success.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as 24 to 48 hours atbusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
(01:57):
All right, welcome back toSmall Business Pivots.
You were fixing to saysomething before we briefed for
the intro.
What was that?
I saw you were eager to get onit.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I would say that the word curiosity is the biggest
miss people do within businessesin general.
They stop being curious andthey start letting fear creep in
.
You said something that justmade me like realize that when
people do the knee jerkreactions um, it's good that
they're curious and I Iemphasize like curiosity is king
(02:33):
, but you have to think what ifthe opposite is true?
So as soon as you get thatfeeling as a small, medium-sized
business owner and you justlike, oh, I'm going to put all
the like we're going after this.
This is the best thing ever,stop and ask yourself what if
the opposite is true?
And try to get curious and getas many people's opinions in as
(02:55):
possible, because otherwiseyou're just going to do, like
you said, a knee-jerk reactionthat you're going to suffer on
later on.
And many founders are, we allknow it, visionaries, and the
visionaries they can come upwith any solution for any
problem, and the problem is somethings should not be solved or
you can't make money on solvingsome problems.
(03:16):
So, being truly open, honestand yeah, we all read the book,
but there's an amazing bookcalled the Mom Test and it
basically gives you a way of howto stay curious and how to
truly understand the bestlogical approach to any
situation to avoid doingimpulsive decision-making.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I don't know that.
I've heard of that book, soit's a recommendation.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It's a recommendation .
It's tiny, you can read itwithin an hour.
The concept is if you ask yourmom or your friends, is this a
good business idea?
They will all lie to youbecause they feel good.
Never ask your close circle ifsomething is a good business
idea, or you should pivot yourcompany in one direction.
(04:02):
Ask strangers, ask people whoare not afraid to hurt your
feelings, ask a mentor or coachand advisor, whoever you ask.
But ask and run smallexperiments, but never ask your
mother, and that's sort of thewhy the book is called the mom
test.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
That is funny, because on Shark Tank, mr
Wonderful always asks who boughtthis from you?
Take it outside and shoot it.
And they'll say well, myfriends.
And he asks who bought thisfrom you?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Take it outside and shoot it, and they'll say well,
my friends, and he said they'relying to you.
It's that concept.
What the book teaches you,though, is how to run
experiments and how to ask in anon-emotional, non-subjective
way, in order for you to trulyget the answers you want to have
before you run down a path.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well, let's jump back just a little bit in history,
because most of our listenersare stuck in their business.
They've read all the popularbooks, watched a lot of YouTubes
, probably invested in a lot ofcourses.
Nothing's changed for theirbusiness.
Something you said earlier thatcaught my attention was nine
figures.
I can't for most of ourlisteners.
(05:05):
Speaking for them, I bet theycan't even fathom what that's
like.
So take us back prior to that,because obviously you have
something that helped you createthat.
How did you get into that space?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So we started.
I used to work for a companycalled Milestone Systems.
This is the company I moved toUS with.
I was running an incubation andventures team in the Bay Area
and or group and we werebasically looking at either
acquiring or partnering withcertain people in the Bay Area
(05:40):
remember TechSpace or we werehanded the crazy ideas that no
one else wanted to touch in theorganization.
That wasn't the bread andbutter business and we had to
start from scratch, hire in afew people, do scrappy, scrunk
work things, get the businessgoing and then hand it off to
the main company or kill it.
(06:00):
And that taught me a veryvaluable lesson, which is
scrappy, ready, fire, aim, notaim, aim, aim, aim, aim.
Everyone who keeps readingbooks and joining masterminds or
whatever they're aiming Stopaiming.
You are ready because youalready made up your mind, you
(06:23):
have the information you need.
Just fire, run experiments andquickly take action and try to
learn from them.
But anyway, that's what Ilearned there.
And then one of these ideasbecame so big that we realized
we got to go raise capital forthis and we got to make it a
bigger initiative.
So we actually spun out aseparate company.
I started out as the CTO ChiefProduct Officer.
(06:46):
Due to certain events, I becameCEO pretty quickly and then it
was literally me at a WeWorkwith the goal of hiring 30
people within three months anddelivering a product within 12
months, and it was, let's justsay, it was a little crazy times
(07:07):
in the beginning.
Now, the good part is we had,uh, an ownership structure.
We were owned by, you know,canon, a camera oh yeah, camera
manufacturer, um, and at thistime, and they owned us and we,
we raised the capital throughthem and a little and through
another company.
But, uh, long story short, itwas crazy times.
(07:29):
Um, if I were to summarize thejourney then we grew and when we
merged we were 150 people.
We merged in with an, like Isaid, with a ninth.
I don't know if it's publicactually I shouldn't maybe have
said that but let's just say,put a good valuation into
another company that was alsoowned by Canon, and I decided to
not stay and I decided to leave.
(07:52):
But I'll tell you about thepatterns For people who are
feeling stuck.
I've seen so clear patterns.
You can grind yourself to thefirst $1 million in revenue,
maybe $2 million, and it's allabout sales.
You need to be selling, selling, selling.
I've seen so many founders whohire a sales team too early
because they're afraid to doingfounder selling.
(08:13):
No, they need to be on thephone, constantly selling.
Even if I had all that backing,I still were on the phone.
I landed our first multimilliondollar deals.
I was flying out around likeone year I don't know how many
laps I did around the world.
The point is, if you are hiringsomeone before you have
marketing fit, messaging fit,you can't scale it with a sales
(08:36):
organization and people willpick up the phone from the
founder and I see so manyfounders who just run away from
that too quickly.
So then you can get to a coupleof million in revenue After
that.
You need processes, you needsystems, you need procedures and
you mentioned before we startedscaling up.
We can have traction EOS.
There are many others out thereyou can use.
(08:58):
The point is do not put inprocess and procedures if you
don't need them, like it's onlywhen you need them, not always,
not never.
And, by the way, don't hiresomeone from a large company who
looks great on the resume thathave done all the great work in
a company where they hadhundreds or 200 people reporting
(09:19):
to them, or thousands andassume that they can come in and
get you the revenue.
It will never work.
They're worthless.
They're even going to make itworse for you, so don't hire
them.
But then process procedures,some delegation work two to 10
million, 11 million, and thenpost that.
It's all about leadership,growing a proper leadership team
(09:41):
, getting people to.
It's like growing people,create, growing organizations
and you need to spend all yourefforts in proper leadership
culture, building the rightculture, grooming the right
people.
And, honestly, you probablyhave to fire a lot of the people
that were there from the two tothe 10 million as well, because
they're not going to get youfurther.
(10:02):
Yeah, yeah.
So those are the patterns Ihave seen, and then I'm saying a
lot here.
I could not have done it withoutmentors, coaches, advisors,
peer groups yeah, everyone elsewho made all the mistakes ahead
of me.
Don't go it alone.
You will mess it up up At least.
(10:23):
I used to have one businesscoach.
I had one mindset psychologistthat I worked with and I had one
leadership psychologist, slashadvisor, and I needed these
people for different reasons.
You can't do it.
If you don't, why reinvent thewheel?
And you can have 10 yearsexperience or you can be working
(10:44):
10 years and get one yearexperience, or you can have 10
years experience in one year,but you have to be able to get
other people's superpower to beable to move faster.
That's a good info.
Sorry, no One question.
Take us back to where itstarted.
But it was the pattern has beenso clear and I've sat in so many
CEO peer groups, so many otherentrepreneurs around me like
(11:07):
that first mistake people makemy like the skipping founder,
selling or trying to establish achannel when you don't have
product and messaging fit crazyand like it's waste of time.
Like you should be sellinguntil you have product and
messaging fit.
You should be selling alongwith whoever you hired in sales
(11:29):
and marketing.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I say because that's everything I coach and preach to
small business owners the samething if you're doing things
that you're not an expert at orskilled at and you don't have
the sales to hire someone to dothat, 80% of your time should be
(11:51):
selling until you can pay forthose services.
And then I also say, secondly,coming from a business coach, if
you haven't crafted the messagethat sells, how do you think
anyone else is going to do that?
So until you figured out,you're wasting your time hiring
someone that doesn't know yourtrue mission, your product fit
(12:13):
those kind of things.
So it's almost like werehearsed this.
This is perfect.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
We did not.
And then, because if you hiresomeone else, they don't have
skin in the game the way you doas a founder and they won't get
curious.
They will be like, no, it'sgood enough, no, but yeah, good
enough, like you're holdingyourself back.
It's not.
Fit is not a destination.
Fit is an iteration.
(12:39):
You get messaging fit, you getproduct fit, but then you got to
iterate and you got to figureout how to do it better and
better and better fit.
You get product fit, but thenyou gotta iterate and you gotta
figure out how to do it betterand better and better.
And now that now you're in alevel where you can start
building partnership channels or, if you're selling direct, you
can scale it up throughmarketing, through other things.
But hiring mark like, yes, youcan hire a marketer to help you
with marketing strategy, but youhave to and this was a term in
(13:03):
tech years ago and it's stillused today.
It's like a growth hacker, like, yeah, you can hire a growth
hacker.
But what is a growth hacker?
It's someone who constantlyexperiments a b test, messaging,
a b test, small product tweaksuntil they figure out what
actually resonates with thecustomer, not what makes you you
sale.
(13:23):
But truly the Likmas test is.
You say Likmas test in English.
Yes, yes, the test is really gointerview 10 people and then
say we actually been thinkingabout scrapping this product or
changing it.
If you have four out of 10people saying no, don't do that,
like I love your product.
Okay, now you're gettingproduct fit.
(13:44):
Saying no, don't do that Like Ilove your product.
Okay, now you're gettingproduct fit.
If you say, is this messageresonating with you?
Or what did you feel?
If they can't express thefeelings with the messaging it's
not market fit, it's notmessaging fit, no-transcript.
In the end of the day, sales ispsychology right and it's
understanding the other party.
(14:05):
And, yes, you love your baby,you have your company, you
believe in it, you put blood,sweat and tears into it.
Assume your baby is ugly andthen get curious on the other
party what it will make it notugly instead and stop selling,
start listening.
Powerful stuff, but you get mypoint Like curiosity.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, that's powerful .
And so listeners.
Boss stands for businessownership simplified.
There's nothing more simplerthan what you just said.
It's that simple and yet formany business owners, the reason
they're stuck are the ones thatcome to us for coaching.
It's because they're making itharder than it really is.
I'm not saying it's easy right,it's.
No, it's not easy owning abusiness, but it is simpler than
(14:50):
what we're trying to make it.
We keep trying to reach for thenext new book or the next idea,
or no, go back to the bait,like what you're talking about.
Go sell first, you know, andstop messing with that other
stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And when people come to me.
So I exited out of the techspace.
I decided and I wouldn't say wedo something similar, but I
help founders that are 3 to 10,15 million and they are more
coming into that growing peoplecreate growing organizations.
You need to grow people stageand I help them more with the
(15:23):
mindset and the leadershiprather than the all the other
things that I assume you helpbusinesses with as well.
But and then the other thing Ido today is I help VPs, because
there is a lot of in largercompanies.
There is a lot of vicepresidents out there that are
that needs to be groomed to beable to get land a C-suite
position and they are justacting way too tactical
(15:48):
knee-jerk reaction there as well, and these are for larger
companies.
So those are the sort of thetwo people I'm helping and I
actually decided to stop.
I'm so passionate about helpingpeople that I decided not to
take on another CEO role foranother tech company, for now at
least.
I get the question a lot, butno, I want to help others and
(16:09):
especially and it's not apolitical viewpoint, but I was
brought up by a very strongmother, single mom, and I got a
shock when I moved to US 10years ago and I saw how few
women are in higher positions indifferent companies.
So I have been helpingprimarily women, actually, and
I've been helping them when Iwas a CEO for a long time, but
(16:31):
more pro bono, and now I'm doingit as my main company.
Well, let's talk about that,real estate and a couple of
other things, but that's alwaysas an entrepreneur you always
have three businesses goingright.
Yep, yep, you got to bediversified.
Yeah, but focus is king.
So 80, 90% of the effort shouldbe on one business.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yes, Well, let's talk about what you do, because
there's a process to that andhow it helps people.
And even if we're supposed tobe doing sales, we still need to
be grooming ourselves to be theleader, to get to that next
level.
So how does working with youhelp them?
What processes do you use?
And share a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah.
So I'm a very action, action,action person, right.
So people come to me andtypically it will be someone who
runs either a service company,brick and mortar company it's
actually more not tech.
Interestingly enough, techpeople they have all the
(17:32):
solutions to all their ownproblems.
But no, I get a lot of thattype of industry manufacturing
companies and it's typically afounder who goes and says I have
a problem with x, y or c.
It's always the same it'seither people process or money
(17:53):
and or, yeah, sometimes it'smoney as well.
Can you help me raise capital?
And just to put it out there,no, I don't help people raise
capital.
Okay, you have to be reallygood.
People invest in people and youneed to be exceptionally good
for me to help you raise capital.
But so I say no to that most ofthe time.
But they come and they say Ihave this problem and then, as
(18:13):
I'm talking with them, that'snever the problem, like it's
never.
It is related to it, but it'salso most founders or
entrepreneurs I talk to.
They're not in love with theircompany anymore.
It's become a burden for them.
They plateaued, they made thewrong hires, they didn't fire
people quick enough, they grewand then all of a sudden,
(18:37):
something happened in the marketand now they can't figure out
what happened and and theybasically are applying the same
patterns of that they gotsuccess with in the past.
Instead of adapting which iswhy I call my leadership
advisory leaders adapt.
You have to adapt, inspect andadapt all the time, and they
just are stuck.
So now they're not in love withthe company anymore.
(18:59):
They've fallen into this chiefproblem solver mode where they
solve everyone's else problems,and they typically have.
They're running what I call anadult daycare.
It's a company where peopleshow up and they take 45 to one
hour meetings with themexplaining their issues with
their husbands, their spouseswhatever it is their wives and
(19:21):
their kids and whatnot.
And it's an adult daycarecare,it's a social club and they're
not getting shit done anymore.
Um and so then I'm like, okay,what happened?
And almost every single time wehave this conversation they
don't recognize that they havechanged.
They think everything else isthe problem, and often the first
(19:43):
four to eight weeks it's allabout like true deep emotional
intelligence on what do theyactually want?
What type of role do they want?
Who?
Who are they interacting with?
What type of lives do they wantto live running these companies
and often people have likemassive oh shit moments, if I
can say the s word, but it'slike oh, not.
(20:05):
They have an oh, this is notgood moment or they realize that
something else is botheringthem.
We address that first so we getdeep understanding.
Then we usually lay out theplan and when I work with people
, my business model is I workwith them four to six months and
then I don't want to see themanymore and I know that sounds
weird normally business coachesI don't want to see them anymore
(20:25):
and I know that sounds weird.
Normally business coaches,leadership advisors they want to
work for years with people.
I don't believe in that model.
I believe I can go in, I can bethe SWAT team.
I can get you to take actionand often the actions we have to
take.
After you have truly understoodwho you are, which direction you
want to go and you're takingaction, you're starting to see
(20:46):
the change.
Often it involves hiring orfiring someone else.
The people you started thebusiness with are typically not
the people you want to havearound anymore or they're
self-sabotaging.
Whatever is going on, you havestopped.
Leading is another thing Ioften tell people they just let
(21:06):
others lead because they'retired and they changed, the
founder changed and they neverrecognized it and now they're
not in love anymore and I makethem either fall in love or I
make them realize they got to goand then they got to hire
someone else to take their roleand move on.
So those are usually theprocess and then, after we've
(21:28):
been, we outlined the businessstrategy, we outlined the
changes needs to be made.
I help people through theprocess.
I push, push, push.
I meet them every week.
It's go, go, go constantly.
We check in multiple times inthe week and then, once we are,
once they start getting amassive transformation and the
revenue starts going up, againpeople are we got rid of the bad
(21:50):
apples, all of that.
What ends up happening?
Nine out of 10 times they fallin love in their business again.
They've just beenprocrastinating on doing what
they needed to do a long timeago.
They need to understand whothey are and they need to iron
fire and then they need to put.
Often it's also a focus problem.
(22:12):
They are doing way too manyinitiatives and I often help
them narrow down the laundrylist of 20 different products
they didn't want to do to one ortwo and they scream and kick
all the way.
But once we get there, thenthey start seeing results, then
the business is growing againand then they also like they're
afraid, Like a lot of people areafraid.
(22:32):
Fear is a weird, weird emotionor friction Uh, it's not a way
of saying it Um, and people justhave to recalibrate that to
unfamiliar and just take action.
So that's have to recalibratethat to unfamiliar and just take
action.
So that's my model, that's whatI do, highly intense.
Others out there are I callthem.
They're amazing, organic dieselfuel, if you want true rocket
(23:00):
fuel on a fire.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Let's go.
That's when people call me.
I love it.
Well, you mentioned earliersystems and processes.
You're listening to SmallBusiness Pivots.
This podcast is produced by mycompany, boss.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as 24 to 48 hours atbusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
(23:26):
If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the
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Now let's get back to ourspecial guest.
Well, you mentioned earliersystems and processes and I know
, for almost all the businessesthat come to us, they have zero
and they just think that'sanother first of all.
And they just think that'sanother first of all.
(23:46):
They think that's just anothertask I don't have time for.
And the other thing is theymight have some.
They just don't hold peopleaccountable.
So kind of walk us through thatprocess of why they need them,
how to implement them, how tohold people accountable, because
, again, to most business ownersthey say that just sounds like
another job that I don't havetime for yeah, and you have to
(24:10):
do it.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
so you have to put the you cannot delegate, because
people won't figure this thingout themselves bare minimum
process to be able to delegateso you can do the 10.
Think of this like if you'regoing to do something you can do
100% and you're probably usedto doing it yourself 100%, Then
why do processes?
They don't matter, they domatter.
So you do the first 10%, thenyou delegate the last 80, and
(24:35):
then you trust but verifythroughout the process and then
the last 10%.
You get it across the finishline.
But I would argue most timeswhen you build a process and you
do something, you have to runthrough it yourself the first
time.
It's the same with founderselling.
You can do it in parallel withsomeone else, but don't delegate
the first time because theother person won't be interested
(24:56):
to improve the process and itwill be a one and done that will
be forget and collect dustlater on.
But it's what I'm pushing for.
Hard is like bare minimum andsome people do process.
Once they get into, oh, let'sdo a process, they overkill it
and it's never used.
I think the balance is key,right, and if you start getting
(25:16):
people who are complaining aboutthe process.
Kill some of it, like remove it, and there is a super good.
I mean again not a politicalviewpoint on Elon Musk, but he
says he has a pretty good trackrecord of building companies.
There is an interview with himwhere he's standing in front of
(25:37):
he's at SpaceX and he's standingin front of a rocket on YouTube
and he's outlining when to doprocesses and how to approach
process building.
That model is exceptionallygood.
Don't just go out there and buya framework and say we have to
do everything that this processdictate or this framework
dictate.
Instead, think, do we even needthis at all?
(25:58):
And if you then build theprocesses in that mindset, you
end up with the value, creatingprocesses, not just process for
process sake.
Like I said, not never, notalways.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Wow, we keep going on that.
But I know another thing thatbusiness owners are probably
cringing about is sales.
Most business owners love whenpeople call them, they love
getting a lead gen form, but toreach out to other people.
Do you have any tips and trickson that?
Because you've done capitalraising, which is selling, and
(26:33):
you've done some other foundersselling, so any tips and tricks
to help these people get out oftheir shell and go do it other
than just you got to do it?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
than just you got to do it.
This thing, it's called a cellphone, solves 99 of your
problems.
What I mean with that is get onthe phone, go through your
connections, just start talkingto them.
Don't text them, don't emailthem, don't wait for the leads
to come in.
Just pick up the phone andstart calling people
(27:09):
no-transcript.
And he's like oh, I can buylists and I can work with this
third party and they willgenerate the leads for me.
And blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like no, you don't wantthem represented.
Like how many people do youhave in your phone book?
And she's like over 2,000,.
Because she worked in a jobwhere she had a lot of
connections.
I was like okay, what do youthink?
How many of them would buy yourproduct?
(27:32):
I'm trying not to.
By the way, you don't have tosell them.
Let's just assume that you hadthe best salesperson in the
world and they got your phoneconnections.
How many people would buy it?
And she goes like, yeah, maybea hundred.
I'm like okay, how many do youcall a day?
How many do you text a day?
How many do you follow up andjust ask them what's happening
(27:53):
in their lives?
Well, I do maybe one a week.
I'm like, yeah, that's yourproblem.
You have 2000 connections.
You can call five people everysingle day.
After two weeks you would havelearned more than sitting on
your ass in front of your inboxwaiting for them to call you for
the next three to six months.
In a week you can learn more.
You just got to get over thatfear.
(28:14):
It's like it's the friction.
And there is a great book, it'scalled the war of art, that
talks about friction.
Every entrepreneur should readit and I recommend book.
I don't like recommending, Irecommend action.
But that one talk about whyyou're stopping yourself from
doing it.
And it was the same.
We just finished cap racing fora small deal.
I raised 1.7 million here inthe last three weeks.
(28:37):
And how did I do that?
Well, I got out on social and Isaid, hey, I'm doing, we're
raising capital for this deal.
We got overfunded even so.
It's a luxury.
But in the first week, not muchhappened.
So what did I do?
I picked up my phone, I startedcalling people and I'm like,
hey.
So what did I do?
I picked up my phone, I startedcalling people and I'm like,
hey, I got this amazing deal.
I really think it would be goodfor you.
(28:58):
And because I'm not sellinglike, yes, I am selling cap
racing, but I'm helping them.
I'm helping them to get morevalue.
And that's the mind screw up alot of people think.
They think it's salespersonwho's calling to sell you a
vacuum cleaner, like, or solarpanels.
Is the modern version Like?
No, like.
That's not what you're doing.
You're helping create morevalue for them.
(29:19):
If they were not, because theywon't be able to know about it
unless you call them.
It's the classical.
You were at the bar and someonehad been drinking too much.
You take away their keys.
It's the same here in the sales.
How you should look at it isyou're taking away their keys.
It's the same here in the sales.
How you should look at it isyou're taking away their keys to
make an informed or uninformeddecision by themselves and
you're just informing them.
(29:40):
You're driving them to thedestination and showing them why
they get more value out of it.
Don't talk about you.
Talk about the value you createfor them.
And all of a sudden you'll havea bunch of people who want to
buy your product and beinterested in it, but pick up
the phone Like.
That's simple.
Is this in your wheelhouse.
By the way, it looks likeyou're sitting and nodding.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I love it.
It's again business ownershipsimplified.
You're making it very simple.
I say many times because I'malso hired from time to time to
be a fractional kind of salesdirector, because they're not
quite big enough to have someoneleading their team.
And I say that all the time Didyou call them?
(30:22):
And I go well, I emailed them.
Did you call them?
Well, no, I sent them a text.
Did you call them?
I just keep repeating Did youcall them?
No, I'll call them next week.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
No, you call them now .
Like I have had salespeople dothat when I ran the company and
they're like I'll get intocontact with them after a
weekend.
I'm like, no, we're ending thismeeting now.
You have 10 minutes.
You call them now If they don'tpick up.
I want to hear that they didn'tpick up, but we can use this
because we're like, and then youcome back to me and you tell me
how it went and then they comecreeping back, tail between
(30:54):
their legs and it kind of like alittle pop in, like yeah, they
could meet us next week.
I'm like, thank you, like, yes,pick up the phone.
And, by the way, you saidanother thing that I think is
crucial fractional people.
Do not go out and hirefull-time people.
Hire fractional people all thetime.
Sure, the hour rate is a littlehigher, but I guarantee,
guarantee you, you get expertise.
(31:15):
You can hire a fractional personone, two days a week, and I
don't do this myself, but I knowa lot of people who do
fractional work.
It is so, so, so, so muchbetter than spending three
months trying to find the rightperson and then, when you find
them, your company changedanyway, something else happened
and now you're in trouble.
No, hire a fractional personfor three months.
(31:37):
Learn, iterate again, ready,fire, aim, great, another great
book, but don't go read it.
You can just go look, but theconcept is the same.
It's like just take action,hire a fractional person Three
months.
You will learn more than hiringthe right candidate within the
next 12 months and now you knowwhat you truly want.
So I would even argue don't hirethe first sales leader, first
(32:00):
marketing leader.
Don't hire a full-time.
Hire a fractional that comes inwith expertise.
I've done this hundreds oftimes and learned from them.
And then you go hire the rightperson.
And, by the way, if you hire afractional and this is going to
some people are now be mad at me.
But okay, do not hirefractionals, don't hire them
full-time.
(32:20):
They will fall in love withyour company, but they will get
lazy, so they will work.
They will bust their ass as afractional.
I have really bad experiencehiring that person afterwards
because now they feel like theydeserve a vacation and it just
happened to be at your company.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I love it.
Yeah, so as a business coach,what typically business owners
discover is I know theirbusiness better than they do.
And so I had a business owneryears ago saying, would you just
lead my sales team?
And that's how my fractionalside came into play.
And I agree with you.
The spark, the momentum, theinspiration comes from I get to
do, I get to make an impact onyour company in the shortest
(33:06):
amount of time.
I'm getting in one week to meetwith your team and I'm out of
there.
Now go perform.
Versus someone that's on theirfull staff, it's just like it's
a job.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah.
But the other thing you will doas fractional.
You will come in and you willsay that person doesn't cut it,
that we need to change thisprocess now.
No discussion, you won't getresults unless we do it.
You come in with atransformational mindset because
you know you don't have to livewith the grumpy people who felt
like, why did you fire thatperson?
Why did you put in this?
(33:36):
Why did I not get the promotion?
Why did you give thatcommission to him?
Like, why did you give thatterritory to that person?
All that fud you deal with.
And now you're the bad guy.
But you set it straight and nowyou put in the person who is
there building something andnurturing something are two
different people and I thinkfractional are exceptionally
(33:58):
good to come in and do atransformation, build it up and
then hire the right captain torun the ship after that?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
How is the best place ?
I know there's.
A lot of people probably wantto learn a lot more about you
and your insights.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Where's the best places to go do that?
I have a website calledleadersadaptcom.
Every time I help a client, Itry to or it's a repeatable
problem I try to write a blogpost about it.
It's short and precise.
The other thing is go follow meeither on LinkedIn or on
Instagram.
I put up a little differentcontent.
Instagram is more business, orsorry, instagram is more life
(34:40):
and everything else mindset,while LinkedIn is a little bit
more professional.
But I'm Andreas the CEO on bothof them and I just started a
YouTube channel and the reasonit's early days and I do have
one leaders adapter, andreas theCEO, you can find me there as
well.
I also been building so muchcourse content about leadership
(35:04):
fundamentals that a lot ofpeople are missing and I'm going
to start putting that out forfree on YouTube here in Q2.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Very cool.
Well, we talked about sales, wetalked about processes.
We talked about a lot of things.
You just mentioned mindset.
You just opened up anotherPandora box, so can you help us
with mindset?
I know that's a very largetopic and a lot of people have
self-doubts and whatever else,but what are some high level?
(35:35):
Here's two or three things thatcan get you over the hump.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think the number one thing is stop looping.
So I meet a lot ofentrepreneurs and help a lot of
entrepreneurs and VPs andexecutives in general that are
they're spending more time onwhat can go wrong rather than
like 95% of their time isworrying sometimes I feel like,
(36:00):
or doubting their own abilitiesor their self-worth.
I have three exercises thathave been super powerful for me.
One of them is Mel Robbins'three second rule can be applied
in any situations.
Or five second rule, which iscount out loud, five, four,
three, two, one, stop and youstop the negative thoughts, you
(36:21):
stop the overanalyzing analysis,paralysis, the looping, and you
just take action, move to adifferent room, like if you've
been procrastinating going tothe gym or you've been
procrastinating going to the gymor you've been procrastinating
on making a business decision,like no, count backwards, and
every time you find your braindrifting because a lot of people
also that are entrepreneurshave adhd or add they just need
(36:45):
to stop themselves sometimes onall the other things and just
what really matters.
So counting outwards makes yourbrain stop feeling and you have
to do something logical.
And now you sort of reset yourbrain and you go do it Like just
start again, start again, startagain, start again.
The second thing I highlyrecommend is start listening for
(37:07):
the positives.
A lot of people that haveself-worth or confidence problem
.
They have negative cognitivebias to looking for the
negatives.
I often ask people that I workwith write down on a post-it
note or go write it on yourbathroom mirror with a sharpie.
(37:27):
Every time someone sayssomething positive or any time
something good happens in yourlife, you have to write it down.
And every time somethingnegative happens literally and I
have these tools on my desk, orreason because I do them set a
timer.
You have 10 minutes to feelsorry about yourself.
Then we're moving on, and Ithink doing that allows people
(37:51):
to focus on the positive,because now you're doing that
constantly and you're searchingfor the positives in every
interaction instead of thenegatives.
And then I think in the morning, every morning, I have stopped
keeping my cell phone in mybedroom and the reason is I grab
it the first thing in themorning, otherwise keep it in
another room.
You can buy it.
These analog clocks have beenaround for a long time.
(38:13):
They work.
Keep pen and paper by your bed,but start every morning with
visualizing, remembering why youstarted your business, it's
your goals, it's youraffirmations, depending on if
you're into philosophy orreligion.
Do your thing that works for youin the morning and then read
all the positive things you haveheard and said about yourself
(38:36):
for the last 30 days everymorning, why You're priming your
brain to look for the positivesin life in any situation, and
now you use the timer to stopyourself on the negative and the
looping.
Just that exercise is massive.
And then, end of each day,reflect how many things did I
(38:56):
really hear that was positive?
Did I really take them down?
Do I have them for tomorrowmorning?
Did I live and lead my companypurposefully today?
Did I get stuck withdistractions, or did I have my
ADHD moments and I ran off?
Or did I actually take thedecisions that truly mattered,
or did I just distract myselfwith other things, and what can
(39:18):
I do to do it a little bitbetter tomorrow?
You write that down before yougo to bed and read that the
first thing in the morning andalso write down how you felt in
that moment, when you felt, when, before going to bed, when you
were you realizing that, oh, Ishould have done this and you
were kind of procrastinating orwhatever it was.
Capture the emotion and thentell yourself we're not going
(39:41):
there in the morning Doing thosesmall, it's small things.
It takes a few seconds.
I've seen people turn aroundfrom self-worth issues,
confidence issues, doing it inthree months of doing these
exercises, going around sayingI'm a badass, like I got this, I
love it, and growing theirbusinesses Like it's all.
(40:03):
Because here's the thing in theend of the day, if you, as a
leader, are not in control ofyour emotions, everyone will
pick up on it instantly.
And I'm not saying you're notsupposed to feel.
I'm saying the opposite feel,but choose what you choose to
express to others in emotionalway, because you're distracting
people, as if you're distracted,you're distracting everyone
(40:23):
else.
Everyone will notice thisinstantly.
Um, I'm a big philosophy person.
Uh, this book I'm about to showis really hard.
Uh, and you're going to spend alot of time reflecting.
And if you read this withouttaking action, never contact me.
I don't want to talk to you.
Um, but it's called how tothink like a roman emperor.
(40:45):
It's the biggest mindset shiftthat I did and I I it's been
used a lot, so it's a a littlebit worn, but just the chapters
here.
I think any entrepreneur shouldread this.
How to speak wisely, how tofollow your values, how to
conquer desire, how to toleratepain, how to relinquish fear,
(41:07):
how to conquer anger Follow thethings that are in this book.
Massive change, massive mindsetchange.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Well, we're on the same page of that, because and
we can't let me finish with aquote it has to be you, but I do
have to share this because it'sso appropriate.
I say all the time to mybusiness owners one of the first
things we do is I make themagree and commit until you
change, nothing around you willchange, and that's what you're
talking about.
(41:34):
Work on yourself, and theneverything else happens.
So with that, what's your lastwords of wisdom here?
You've had so many.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
This is my life quote .
This is what I live by.
The brain dies twice.
First time happens when you sayI am who I am it.
Nothing will change anyway.
And the second time is whenyour heart stopped beating.
My goal in life is to time themthe same second, and that means
(42:06):
I have to stay curious, I haveto learn, I have to adapt,
inspect and adapt for the restof my life, and as soon as I
have a preconceived notion, jumpto conclusions my brain is
dying and I'm going to time themin the same second.
My last words won't be thankyou, it will be how does that
(42:26):
work?
Tell me.
And then I'm gone.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Wow, that's powerful.
That's powerful.
You've been a blessing to many.
I so appreciate your time.
Thank you for having me mypleasure.
Thank you for listening toSmall Business Pivots.
This podcast is created andproduced by my company, boss.
Our business is growing.
Yours, boss, offers flexiblebusiness loans with business
coaching support.
(42:50):
Flexible business loans withbusiness coaching support Apply
in minutes and get approved andfunded in as little as 24 to 48
hours atbusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share it aswell.
If you need help growing yourbusiness, email me at michael at
(43:11):
michaeldmorrisoncom.
We'll see you next time onSmall Business Pivots.
All right, welcome to another Small Business Pivots.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We have another special guest from around the
world, and I know that businessowners are the best ones to
introduce themselves and theircompanies, so I'm going to let
you go ahead and introduceyourself, my friend moved to us
(00:29):
about 11 years ago and I've beena tech ceo, tech founder, um,
and I've been an executive for10 years and I made a lot of
mistakes uh, as someone whostarted from scratch and grew
the company to a nine-figurevaluation before it was merged,
and I decided to leave thatspace behind and go help others
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, how do you think we're going to help our
listeners today?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hopefully I will be able to show people the value of
being honest with yourself, thevalue of being vulnerable, and
then develop a deep emotionalintelligence when it comes to
leadership and how you dobusiness decisions, Because if
(01:10):
you truly understand yourself,you don't make as many
emotional-driven decisions andmore logical-driven decisions
that lead you to take action andget results way quicker.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's a good one, because I know a lot of business
owners who make what we callknee-jerk reactions and they
usually have to pay for it later.
So let's introduce the showreal quick and we'll be right
back.
Welcome to Small BusinessPivots, a podcast produced for
small business owners.
I'm your host, michael Morrison, founder and CEO of BOSS, where
(01:36):
we make business ownershipsimplified for success.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as 24 to 48 hours atbusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
(01:57):
All right, welcome back toSmall Business Pivots.
You were fixing to saysomething before we briefed for
the intro.
What was that?
I saw you were eager to get onit.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I would say that the word curiosity is the biggest
miss people do within businessesin general.
They stop being curious andthey start letting fear creep in
.
You said something that justmade me like realize that when
people do the knee jerkreactions um, it's good that
they're curious and I Iemphasize like curiosity is king
(02:33):
, but you have to think what ifthe opposite is true?
So as soon as you get thatfeeling as a small, medium-sized
business owner and you justlike, oh, I'm going to put all
the like we're going after this.
This is the best thing ever,stop and ask yourself what if
the opposite is true?
And try to get curious and getas many people's opinions in as
(02:55):
possible, because otherwiseyou're just going to do, like
you said, a knee-jerk reactionthat you're going to suffer on
later on.
And many founders are, we allknow it, visionaries, and the
visionaries they can come upwith any solution for any
problem, and the problem is somethings should not be solved or
you can't make money on solvingsome problems.
(03:16):
So, being truly open, honestand yeah, we all read the book,
but there's an amazing bookcalled the Mom Test and it
basically gives you a way of howto stay curious and how to
truly understand the bestlogical approach to any
situation to avoid doingimpulsive decision-making.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I don't know that.
I've heard of that book, soit's a recommendation.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It's a recommendation .
It's tiny, you can read itwithin an hour.
The concept is if you ask yourmom or your friends, is this a
good business idea?
They will all lie to youbecause they feel good.
Never ask your close circle ifsomething is a good business
idea, or you should pivot yourcompany in one direction.
(04:02):
Ask strangers, ask people whoare not afraid to hurt your
feelings, ask a mentor or coachand advisor, whoever you ask.
But ask and run smallexperiments, but never ask your
mother, and that's sort of thewhy the book is called the mom
test.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
That is funny, because on Shark Tank, mr
Wonderful always asks who boughtthis from you?
Take it outside and shoot it.
And they'll say well, myfriends.
And he asks who bought thisfrom you?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Take it outside and shoot it, and they'll say well,
my friends, and he said they'relying to you.
It's that concept.
What the book teaches you,though, is how to run
experiments and how to ask in anon-emotional, non-subjective
way, in order for you to trulyget the answers you want to have
before you run down a path.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well, let's jump back just a little bit in history,
because most of our listenersare stuck in their business.
They've read all the popularbooks, watched a lot of YouTubes
, probably invested in a lot ofcourses.
Nothing's changed for theirbusiness.
Something you said earlier thatcaught my attention was nine
figures.
I can't for most of ourlisteners.
(05:05):
Speaking for them, I bet theycan't even fathom what that's
like.
So take us back prior to that,because obviously you have
something that helped you createthat.
How did you get into that space?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So we started.
I used to work for a companycalled Milestone Systems.
This is the company I moved toUS with.
I was running an incubation andventures team in the Bay Area
and or group and we werebasically looking at either
acquiring or partnering withcertain people in the Bay Area
(05:40):
remember TechSpace or we werehanded the crazy ideas that no
one else wanted to touch in theorganization.
That wasn't the bread andbutter business and we had to
start from scratch, hire in afew people, do scrappy, scrunk
work things, get the businessgoing and then hand it off to
the main company or kill it.
(06:00):
And that taught me a veryvaluable lesson, which is
scrappy, ready, fire, aim, notaim, aim, aim, aim, aim.
Everyone who keeps readingbooks and joining masterminds or
whatever they're aiming Stopaiming.
You are ready because youalready made up your mind, you
(06:23):
have the information you need.
Just fire, run experiments andquickly take action and try to
learn from them.
But anyway, that's what Ilearned there.
And then one of these ideasbecame so big that we realized
we got to go raise capital forthis and we got to make it a
bigger initiative.
So we actually spun out aseparate company.
I started out as the CTO ChiefProduct Officer.
(06:46):
Due to certain events, I becameCEO pretty quickly and then it
was literally me at a WeWorkwith the goal of hiring 30
people within three months anddelivering a product within 12
months, and it was, let's justsay, it was a little crazy times
(07:07):
in the beginning.
Now, the good part is we had,uh, an ownership structure.
We were owned by, you know,canon, a camera oh yeah, camera
manufacturer, um, and at thistime, and they owned us and we,
we raised the capital throughthem and a little and through
another company.
But, uh, long story short, itwas crazy times.
(07:29):
Um, if I were to summarize thejourney then we grew and when we
merged we were 150 people.
We merged in with an, like Isaid, with a ninth.
I don't know if it's publicactually I shouldn't maybe have
said that but let's just say,put a good valuation into
another company that was alsoowned by Canon, and I decided to
not stay and I decided to leave.
(07:52):
But I'll tell you about thepatterns For people who are
feeling stuck.
I've seen so clear patterns.
You can grind yourself to thefirst $1 million in revenue,
maybe $2 million, and it's allabout sales.
You need to be selling, selling, selling.
I've seen so many founders whohire a sales team too early
because they're afraid to doingfounder selling.
(08:13):
No, they need to be on thephone, constantly selling.
Even if I had all that backing,I still were on the phone.
I landed our first multimilliondollar deals.
I was flying out around likeone year I don't know how many
laps I did around the world.
The point is, if you are hiringsomeone before you have
marketing fit, messaging fit,you can't scale it with a sales
(08:36):
organization and people willpick up the phone from the
founder and I see so manyfounders who just run away from
that too quickly.
So then you can get to a coupleof million in revenue After
that.
You need processes, you needsystems, you need procedures and
you mentioned before we startedscaling up.
We can have traction EOS.
There are many others out thereyou can use.
(08:58):
The point is do not put inprocess and procedures if you
don't need them, like it's onlywhen you need them, not always,
not never.
And, by the way, don't hiresomeone from a large company who
looks great on the resume thathave done all the great work in
a company where they hadhundreds or 200 people reporting
(09:19):
to them, or thousands andassume that they can come in and
get you the revenue.
It will never work.
They're worthless.
They're even going to make itworse for you, so don't hire
them.
But then process procedures,some delegation work two to 10
million, 11 million, and thenpost that.
It's all about leadership,growing a proper leadership team
(09:41):
, getting people to.
It's like growing people,create, growing organizations
and you need to spend all yourefforts in proper leadership
culture, building the rightculture, grooming the right
people.
And, honestly, you probablyhave to fire a lot of the people
that were there from the two tothe 10 million as well, because
they're not going to get youfurther.
(10:02):
Yeah, yeah.
So those are the patterns Ihave seen, and then I'm saying a
lot here.
I could not have done it withoutmentors, coaches, advisors,
peer groups yeah, everyone elsewho made all the mistakes ahead
of me.
Don't go it alone.
You will mess it up up At least.
(10:23):
I used to have one businesscoach.
I had one mindset psychologistthat I worked with and I had one
leadership psychologist, slashadvisor, and I needed these
people for different reasons.
You can't do it.
If you don't, why reinvent thewheel?
And you can have 10 yearsexperience or you can be working
(10:44):
10 years and get one yearexperience, or you can have 10
years experience in one year,but you have to be able to get
other people's superpower to beable to move faster.
That's a good info.
Sorry, no One question.
Take us back to where itstarted.
But it was the pattern has beenso clear and I've sat in so many
CEO peer groups, so many otherentrepreneurs around me like
(11:07):
that first mistake people makemy like the skipping founder,
selling or trying to establish achannel when you don't have
product and messaging fit crazyand like it's waste of time.
Like you should be sellinguntil you have product and
messaging fit.
You should be selling alongwith whoever you hired in sales
(11:29):
and marketing.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I say because that's everything I coach and preach to
small business owners the samething if you're doing things
that you're not an expert at orskilled at and you don't have
the sales to hire someone to dothat, 80% of your time should be
(11:51):
selling until you can pay forthose services.
And then I also say, secondly,coming from a business coach, if
you haven't crafted the messagethat sells, how do you think
anyone else is going to do that?
So until you figured out,you're wasting your time hiring
someone that doesn't know yourtrue mission, your product fit
(12:13):
those kind of things.
So it's almost like werehearsed this.
This is perfect.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
We did not.
And then, because if you hiresomeone else, they don't have
skin in the game the way you doas a founder and they won't get
curious.
They will be like, no, it'sgood enough, no, but yeah, good
enough, like you're holdingyourself back.
It's not.
Fit is not a destination.
Fit is an iteration.
(12:39):
You get messaging fit, you getproduct fit, but then you got to
iterate and you got to figureout how to do it better and
better and better fit.
You get product fit, but thenyou gotta iterate and you gotta
figure out how to do it betterand better and better.
And now that now you're in alevel where you can start
building partnership channels or, if you're selling direct, you
can scale it up throughmarketing, through other things.
But hiring mark like, yes, youcan hire a marketer to help you
with marketing strategy, but youhave to and this was a term in
(13:03):
tech years ago and it's stillused today.
It's like a growth hacker, like, yeah, you can hire a growth
hacker.
But what is a growth hacker?
It's someone who constantlyexperiments a b test, messaging,
a b test, small product tweaksuntil they figure out what
actually resonates with thecustomer, not what makes you you
sale.
(13:23):
But truly the Likmas test is.
You say Likmas test in English.
Yes, yes, the test is really gointerview 10 people and then
say we actually been thinkingabout scrapping this product or
changing it.
If you have four out of 10people saying no, don't do that,
like I love your product.
Okay, now you're gettingproduct fit.
(13:44):
Saying no, don't do that Like Ilove your product.
Okay, now you're gettingproduct fit.
If you say, is this messageresonating with you?
Or what did you feel?
If they can't express thefeelings with the messaging it's
not market fit, it's notmessaging fit, no-transcript.
In the end of the day, sales ispsychology right and it's
understanding the other party.
(14:05):
And, yes, you love your baby,you have your company, you
believe in it, you put blood,sweat and tears into it.
Assume your baby is ugly andthen get curious on the other
party what it will make it notugly instead and stop selling,
start listening.
Powerful stuff, but you get mypoint Like curiosity.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, that's powerful .
And so listeners.
Boss stands for businessownership simplified.
There's nothing more simplerthan what you just said.
It's that simple and yet formany business owners, the reason
they're stuck are the ones thatcome to us for coaching.
It's because they're making itharder than it really is.
I'm not saying it's easy right,it's.
No, it's not easy owning abusiness, but it is simpler than
(14:50):
what we're trying to make it.
We keep trying to reach for thenext new book or the next idea,
or no, go back to the bait,like what you're talking about.
Go sell first, you know, andstop messing with that other
stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And when people come to me.
So I exited out of the techspace.
I decided and I wouldn't say wedo something similar, but I
help founders that are 3 to 10,15 million and they are more
coming into that growing peoplecreate growing organizations.
You need to grow people stageand I help them more with the
(15:23):
mindset and the leadershiprather than the all the other
things that I assume you helpbusinesses with as well.
But and then the other thing Ido today is I help VPs, because
there is a lot of in largercompanies.
There is a lot of vicepresidents out there that are
that needs to be groomed to beable to get land a C-suite
position and they are justacting way too tactical
(15:48):
knee-jerk reaction there as well, and these are for larger
companies.
So those are the sort of thetwo people I'm helping and I
actually decided to stop.
I'm so passionate about helpingpeople that I decided not to
take on another CEO role foranother tech company, for now at
least.
I get the question a lot, butno, I want to help others and
(16:09):
especially and it's not apolitical viewpoint, but I was
brought up by a very strongmother, single mom, and I got a
shock when I moved to US 10years ago and I saw how few
women are in higher positions indifferent companies.
So I have been helpingprimarily women, actually, and
I've been helping them when Iwas a CEO for a long time, but
(16:31):
more pro bono, and now I'm doingit as my main company.
Well, let's talk about that,real estate and a couple of
other things, but that's alwaysas an entrepreneur you always
have three businesses goingright.
Yep, yep, you got to bediversified.
Yeah, but focus is king.
So 80, 90% of the effort shouldbe on one business.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yes, Well, let's talk about what you do, because
there's a process to that andhow it helps people.
And even if we're supposed tobe doing sales, we still need to
be grooming ourselves to be theleader, to get to that next
level.
So how does working with youhelp them?
What processes do you use?
And share a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah.
So I'm a very action, action,action person, right.
So people come to me andtypically it will be someone who
runs either a service company,brick and mortar company it's
actually more not tech.
Interestingly enough, techpeople they have all the
(17:32):
solutions to all their ownproblems.
But no, I get a lot of thattype of industry manufacturing
companies and it's typically afounder who goes and says I have
a problem with x, y or c.
It's always the same it'seither people process or money
(17:53):
and or, yeah, sometimes it'smoney as well.
Can you help me raise capital?
And just to put it out there,no, I don't help people raise
capital.
Okay, you have to be reallygood.
People invest in people and youneed to be exceptionally good
for me to help you raise capital.
But so I say no to that most ofthe time.
But they come and they say Ihave this problem and then, as
(18:13):
I'm talking with them, that'snever the problem, like it's
never.
It is related to it, but it'salso most founders or
entrepreneurs I talk to.
They're not in love with theircompany anymore.
It's become a burden for them.
They plateaued, they made thewrong hires, they didn't fire
people quick enough, they grewand then all of a sudden,
(18:37):
something happened in the marketand now they can't figure out
what happened and and theybasically are applying the same
patterns of that they gotsuccess with in the past.
Instead of adapting which iswhy I call my leadership
advisory leaders adapt.
You have to adapt, inspect andadapt all the time, and they
just are stuck.
So now they're not in love withthe company anymore.
(18:59):
They've fallen into this chiefproblem solver mode where they
solve everyone's else problems,and they typically have.
They're running what I call anadult daycare.
It's a company where peopleshow up and they take 45 to one
hour meetings with themexplaining their issues with
their husbands, their spouseswhatever it is their wives and
(19:21):
their kids and whatnot.
And it's an adult daycarecare,it's a social club and they're
not getting shit done anymore.
Um and so then I'm like, okay,what happened?
And almost every single time wehave this conversation they
don't recognize that they havechanged.
They think everything else isthe problem, and often the first
(19:43):
four to eight weeks it's allabout like true deep emotional
intelligence on what do theyactually want?
What type of role do they want?
Who?
Who are they interacting with?
What type of lives do they wantto live running these companies
and often people have likemassive oh shit moments, if I
can say the s word, but it'slike oh, not.
(20:05):
They have an oh, this is notgood moment or they realize that
something else is botheringthem.
We address that first so we getdeep understanding.
Then we usually lay out theplan and when I work with people
, my business model is I workwith them four to six months and
then I don't want to see themanymore and I know that sounds
weird normally business coachesI don't want to see them anymore
(20:25):
and I know that sounds weird.
Normally business coaches,leadership advisors they want to
work for years with people.
I don't believe in that model.
I believe I can go in, I can bethe SWAT team.
I can get you to take actionand often the actions we have to
take.
After you have truly understoodwho you are, which direction you
want to go and you're takingaction, you're starting to see
(20:46):
the change.
Often it involves hiring orfiring someone else.
The people you started thebusiness with are typically not
the people you want to havearound anymore or they're
self-sabotaging.
Whatever is going on, you havestopped.
Leading is another thing Ioften tell people they just let
(21:06):
others lead because they'retired and they changed, the
founder changed and they neverrecognized it and now they're
not in love anymore and I makethem either fall in love or I
make them realize they got to goand then they got to hire
someone else to take their roleand move on.
So those are usually theprocess and then, after we've
(21:28):
been, we outlined the businessstrategy, we outlined the
changes needs to be made.
I help people through theprocess.
I push, push, push.
I meet them every week.
It's go, go, go constantly.
We check in multiple times inthe week and then, once we are,
once they start getting amassive transformation and the
revenue starts going up, againpeople are we got rid of the bad
(21:50):
apples, all of that.
What ends up happening?
Nine out of 10 times they fallin love in their business again.
They've just beenprocrastinating on doing what
they needed to do a long timeago.
They need to understand whothey are and they need to iron
fire and then they need to put.
Often it's also a focus problem.
(22:12):
They are doing way too manyinitiatives and I often help
them narrow down the laundrylist of 20 different products
they didn't want to do to one ortwo and they scream and kick
all the way.
But once we get there, thenthey start seeing results, then
the business is growing againand then they also like they're
afraid, Like a lot of people areafraid.
(22:32):
Fear is a weird, weird emotionor friction Uh, it's not a way
of saying it Um, and people justhave to recalibrate that to
unfamiliar and just take action.
So that's have to recalibratethat to unfamiliar and just take
action.
So that's my model, that's whatI do, highly intense.
Others out there are I callthem.
They're amazing, organic dieselfuel, if you want true rocket
(23:00):
fuel on a fire.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Let's go.
That's when people call me.
I love it.
Well, you mentioned earliersystems and processes.
You're listening to SmallBusiness Pivots.
This podcast is produced by mycompany, boss.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as 24 to 48 hours atbusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
(23:26):
If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share it aswell.
Now let's get back to ourspecial guest.
Well, you mentioned earliersystems and processes and I know
, for almost all the businessesthat come to us, they have zero
and they just think that'sanother first of all.
And they just think that'sanother first of all.
(23:46):
They think that's just anothertask I don't have time for.
And the other thing is theymight have some.
They just don't hold peopleaccountable.
So kind of walk us through thatprocess of why they need them,
how to implement them, how tohold people accountable, because
, again, to most business ownersthey say that just sounds like
another job that I don't havetime for yeah, and you have to
(24:10):
do it.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
so you have to put the you cannot delegate, because
people won't figure this thingout themselves bare minimum
process to be able to delegateso you can do the 10.
Think of this like if you'regoing to do something you can do
100% and you're probably usedto doing it yourself 100%, Then
why do processes?
They don't matter, they domatter.
So you do the first 10%, thenyou delegate the last 80, and
(24:35):
then you trust but verifythroughout the process and then
the last 10%.
You get it across the finishline.
But I would argue most timeswhen you build a process and you
do something, you have to runthrough it yourself the first
time.
It's the same with founderselling.
You can do it in parallel withsomeone else, but don't delegate
the first time because theother person won't be interested
(24:56):
to improve the process and itwill be a one and done that will
be forget and collect dustlater on.
But it's what I'm pushing for.
Hard is like bare minimum andsome people do process.
Once they get into, oh, let'sdo a process, they overkill it
and it's never used.
I think the balance is key,right, and if you start getting
(25:16):
people who are complaining aboutthe process.
Kill some of it, like remove it, and there is a super good.
I mean again not a politicalviewpoint on Elon Musk, but he
says he has a pretty good trackrecord of building companies.
There is an interview with himwhere he's standing in front of
(25:37):
he's at SpaceX and he's standingin front of a rocket on YouTube
and he's outlining when to doprocesses and how to approach
process building.
That model is exceptionallygood.
Don't just go out there and buya framework and say we have to
do everything that this processdictate or this framework
dictate.
Instead, think, do we even needthis at all?
(25:58):
And if you then build theprocesses in that mindset, you
end up with the value, creatingprocesses, not just process for
process sake.
Like I said, not never, notalways.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Wow, we keep going on that.
But I know another thing thatbusiness owners are probably
cringing about is sales.
Most business owners love whenpeople call them, they love
getting a lead gen form, but toreach out to other people.
Do you have any tips and trickson that?
Because you've done capitalraising, which is selling, and
(26:33):
you've done some other foundersselling, so any tips and tricks
to help these people get out oftheir shell and go do it other
than just you got to do it?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
than just you got to do it.
This thing, it's called a cellphone, solves 99 of your
problems.
What I mean with that is get onthe phone, go through your
connections, just start talkingto them.
Don't text them, don't emailthem, don't wait for the leads
to come in.
Just pick up the phone andstart calling people
(27:09):
no-transcript.
And he's like oh, I can buylists and I can work with this
third party and they willgenerate the leads for me.
And blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like no, you don't wantthem represented.
Like how many people do youhave in your phone book?
And she's like over 2,000,.
Because she worked in a jobwhere she had a lot of
connections.
I was like okay, what do youthink?
How many of them would buy yourproduct?
(27:32):
I'm trying not to.
By the way, you don't have tosell them.
Let's just assume that you hadthe best salesperson in the
world and they got your phoneconnections.
How many people would buy it?
And she goes like, yeah, maybea hundred.
I'm like okay, how many do youcall a day?
How many do you text a day?
How many do you follow up andjust ask them what's happening
(27:53):
in their lives?
Well, I do maybe one a week.
I'm like, yeah, that's yourproblem.
You have 2000 connections.
You can call five people everysingle day.
After two weeks you would havelearned more than sitting on
your ass in front of your inboxwaiting for them to call you for
the next three to six months.
In a week you can learn more.
You just got to get over thatfear.
(28:14):
It's like it's the friction.
And there is a great book, it'scalled the war of art, that
talks about friction.
Every entrepreneur should readit and I recommend book.
I don't like recommending, Irecommend action.
But that one talk about whyyou're stopping yourself from
doing it.
And it was the same.
We just finished cap racing fora small deal.
I raised 1.7 million here inthe last three weeks.
(28:37):
And how did I do that?
Well, I got out on social and Isaid, hey, I'm doing, we're
raising capital for this deal.
We got overfunded even so.
It's a luxury.
But in the first week, not muchhappened.
So what did I do?
I picked up my phone, I startedcalling people and I'm like,
hey.
So what did I do?
I picked up my phone, I startedcalling people and I'm like,
hey, I got this amazing deal.
I really think it would be goodfor you.
(28:58):
And because I'm not sellinglike, yes, I am selling cap
racing, but I'm helping them.
I'm helping them to get morevalue.
And that's the mind screw up alot of people think.
They think it's salespersonwho's calling to sell you a
vacuum cleaner, like, or solarpanels.
Is the modern version Like?
No, like.
That's not what you're doing.
You're helping create morevalue for them.
(29:19):
If they were not, because theywon't be able to know about it
unless you call them.
It's the classical.
You were at the bar and someonehad been drinking too much.
You take away their keys.
It's the same here in the sales.
How you should look at it isyou're taking away their keys.
It's the same here in the sales.
How you should look at it isyou're taking away their keys to
make an informed or uninformeddecision by themselves and
you're just informing them.
(29:40):
You're driving them to thedestination and showing them why
they get more value out of it.
Don't talk about you.
Talk about the value you createfor them.
And all of a sudden you'll havea bunch of people who want to
buy your product and beinterested in it, but pick up
the phone Like.
That's simple.
Is this in your wheelhouse.
By the way, it looks likeyou're sitting and nodding.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I love it.
It's again business ownershipsimplified.
You're making it very simple.
I say many times because I'malso hired from time to time to
be a fractional kind of salesdirector, because they're not
quite big enough to have someoneleading their team.
And I say that all the time Didyou call them?
(30:22):
And I go well, I emailed them.
Did you call them?
Well, no, I sent them a text.
Did you call them?
I just keep repeating Did youcall them?
No, I'll call them next week.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
No, you call them now .
Like I have had salespeople dothat when I ran the company and
they're like I'll get intocontact with them after a
weekend.
I'm like, no, we're ending thismeeting now.
You have 10 minutes.
You call them now If they don'tpick up.
I want to hear that they didn'tpick up, but we can use this
because we're like, and then youcome back to me and you tell me
how it went and then they comecreeping back, tail between
(30:54):
their legs and it kind of like alittle pop in, like yeah, they
could meet us next week.
I'm like, thank you, like, yes,pick up the phone.
And, by the way, you saidanother thing that I think is
crucial fractional people.
Do not go out and hirefull-time people.
Hire fractional people all thetime.
Sure, the hour rate is a littlehigher, but I guarantee,
guarantee you, you get expertise.
(31:15):
You can hire a fractional personone, two days a week, and I
don't do this myself, but I knowa lot of people who do
fractional work.
It is so, so, so, so muchbetter than spending three
months trying to find the rightperson and then, when you find
them, your company changedanyway, something else happened
and now you're in trouble.
No, hire a fractional personfor three months.
(31:37):
Learn, iterate again, ready,fire, aim, great, another great
book, but don't go read it.
You can just go look, but theconcept is the same.
It's like just take action,hire a fractional person Three
months.
You will learn more than hiringthe right candidate within the
next 12 months and now you knowwhat you truly want.
So I would even argue don't hirethe first sales leader, first
(32:00):
marketing leader.
Don't hire a full-time.
Hire a fractional that comes inwith expertise.
I've done this hundreds oftimes and learned from them.
And then you go hire the rightperson.
And, by the way, if you hire afractional and this is going to
some people are now be mad at me.
But okay, do not hirefractionals, don't hire them
full-time.
(32:20):
They will fall in love withyour company, but they will get
lazy, so they will work.
They will bust their ass as afractional.
I have really bad experiencehiring that person afterwards
because now they feel like theydeserve a vacation and it just
happened to be at your company.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I love it.
Yeah, so as a business coach,what typically business owners
discover is I know theirbusiness better than they do.
And so I had a business owneryears ago saying, would you just
lead my sales team?
And that's how my fractionalside came into play.
And I agree with you.
The spark, the momentum, theinspiration comes from I get to
do, I get to make an impact onyour company in the shortest
(33:06):
amount of time.
I'm getting in one week to meetwith your team and I'm out of
there.
Now go perform.
Versus someone that's on theirfull staff, it's just like it's
a job.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah.
But the other thing you will doas fractional.
You will come in and you willsay that person doesn't cut it,
that we need to change thisprocess now.
No discussion, you won't getresults unless we do it.
You come in with atransformational mindset because
you know you don't have to livewith the grumpy people who felt
like, why did you fire thatperson?
Why did you put in this?
(33:36):
Why did I not get the promotion?
Why did you give thatcommission to him?
Like, why did you give thatterritory to that person?
All that fud you deal with.
And now you're the bad guy.
But you set it straight and nowyou put in the person who is
there building something andnurturing something are two
different people and I thinkfractional are exceptionally
(33:58):
good to come in and do atransformation, build it up and
then hire the right captain torun the ship after that?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
How is the best place ?
I know there's.
A lot of people probably wantto learn a lot more about you
and your insights.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Where's the best places to go do that?
I have a website calledleadersadaptcom.
Every time I help a client, Itry to or it's a repeatable
problem I try to write a blogpost about it.
It's short and precise.
The other thing is go follow meeither on LinkedIn or on
Instagram.
I put up a little differentcontent.
Instagram is more business, orsorry, instagram is more life
(34:40):
and everything else mindset,while LinkedIn is a little bit
more professional.
But I'm Andreas the CEO on bothof them and I just started a
YouTube channel and the reasonit's early days and I do have
one leaders adapter, andreas theCEO, you can find me there as
well.
I also been building so muchcourse content about leadership
(35:04):
fundamentals that a lot ofpeople are missing and I'm going
to start putting that out forfree on YouTube here in Q2.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Very cool.
Well, we talked about sales, wetalked about processes.
We talked about a lot of things.
You just mentioned mindset.
You just opened up anotherPandora box, so can you help us
with mindset?
I know that's a very largetopic and a lot of people have
self-doubts and whatever else,but what are some high level?
(35:35):
Here's two or three things thatcan get you over the hump.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think the number one thing is stop looping.
So I meet a lot ofentrepreneurs and help a lot of
entrepreneurs and VPs andexecutives in general that are
they're spending more time onwhat can go wrong rather than
like 95% of their time isworrying sometimes I feel like,
(36:00):
or doubting their own abilitiesor their self-worth.
I have three exercises thathave been super powerful for me.
One of them is Mel Robbins'three second rule can be applied
in any situations.
Or five second rule, which iscount out loud, five, four,
three, two, one, stop and youstop the negative thoughts, you
(36:21):
stop the overanalyzing analysis,paralysis, the looping, and you
just take action, move to adifferent room, like if you've
been procrastinating going tothe gym or you've been
procrastinating going to the gymor you've been procrastinating
on making a business decision,like no, count backwards, and
every time you find your braindrifting because a lot of people
also that are entrepreneurshave adhd or add they just need
(36:45):
to stop themselves sometimes onall the other things and just
what really matters.
So counting outwards makes yourbrain stop feeling and you have
to do something logical.
And now you sort of reset yourbrain and you go do it Like just
start again, start again, startagain, start again.
The second thing I highlyrecommend is start listening for
(37:07):
the positives.
A lot of people that haveself-worth or confidence problem
.
They have negative cognitivebias to looking for the
negatives.
I often ask people that I workwith write down on a post-it
note or go write it on yourbathroom mirror with a sharpie.
(37:27):
Every time someone sayssomething positive or any time
something good happens in yourlife, you have to write it down.
And every time somethingnegative happens literally and I
have these tools on my desk, orreason because I do them set a
timer.
You have 10 minutes to feelsorry about yourself.
Then we're moving on, and Ithink doing that allows people
(37:51):
to focus on the positive,because now you're doing that
constantly and you're searchingfor the positives in every
interaction instead of thenegatives.
And then I think in the morning, every morning, I have stopped
keeping my cell phone in mybedroom and the reason is I grab
it the first thing in themorning, otherwise keep it in
another room.
You can buy it.
These analog clocks have beenaround for a long time.
(38:13):
They work.
Keep pen and paper by your bed,but start every morning with
visualizing, remembering why youstarted your business, it's
your goals, it's youraffirmations, depending on if
you're into philosophy orreligion.
Do your thing that works for youin the morning and then read
all the positive things you haveheard and said about yourself
(38:36):
for the last 30 days everymorning, why You're priming your
brain to look for the positivesin life in any situation, and
now you use the timer to stopyourself on the negative and the
looping.
Just that exercise is massive.
And then, end of each day,reflect how many things did I
(38:56):
really hear that was positive?
Did I really take them down?
Do I have them for tomorrowmorning?
Did I live and lead my companypurposefully today?
Did I get stuck withdistractions, or did I have my
ADHD moments and I ran off?
Or did I actually take thedecisions that truly mattered,
or did I just distract myselfwith other things, and what can
(39:18):
I do to do it a little bitbetter tomorrow?
You write that down before yougo to bed and read that the
first thing in the morning andalso write down how you felt in
that moment, when you felt, when, before going to bed, when you
were you realizing that, oh, Ishould have done this and you
were kind of procrastinating orwhatever it was.
Capture the emotion and thentell yourself we're not going
(39:41):
there in the morning Doing thosesmall, it's small things.
It takes a few seconds.
I've seen people turn aroundfrom self-worth issues,
confidence issues, doing it inthree months of doing these
exercises, going around sayingI'm a badass, like I got this, I
love it, and growing theirbusinesses Like it's all.
(40:03):
Because here's the thing in theend of the day, if you, as a
leader, are not in control ofyour emotions, everyone will
pick up on it instantly.
And I'm not saying you're notsupposed to feel.
I'm saying the opposite feel,but choose what you choose to
express to others in emotionalway, because you're distracting
people, as if you're distracted,you're distracting everyone
(40:23):
else.
Everyone will notice thisinstantly.
Um, I'm a big philosophy person.
Uh, this book I'm about to showis really hard.
Uh, and you're going to spend alot of time reflecting.
And if you read this withouttaking action, never contact me.
I don't want to talk to you.
Um, but it's called how tothink like a roman emperor.
(40:45):
It's the biggest mindset shiftthat I did and I I it's been
used a lot, so it's a a littlebit worn, but just the chapters
here.
I think any entrepreneur shouldread this.
How to speak wisely, how tofollow your values, how to
conquer desire, how to toleratepain, how to relinquish fear,
(41:07):
how to conquer anger Follow thethings that are in this book.
Massive change, massive mindsetchange.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Well, we're on the same page of that, because and
we can't let me finish with aquote it has to be you, but I do
have to share this because it'sso appropriate.
I say all the time to mybusiness owners one of the first
things we do is I make themagree and commit until you
change, nothing around you willchange, and that's what you're
talking about.
(41:34):
Work on yourself, and theneverything else happens.
So with that, what's your lastwords of wisdom here?
You've had so many.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
This is my life quote .
This is what I live by.
The brain dies twice.
First time happens when you sayI am who I am it.
Nothing will change anyway.
And the second time is whenyour heart stopped beating.
My goal in life is to time themthe same second, and that means
(42:06):
I have to stay curious, I haveto learn, I have to adapt,
inspect and adapt for the restof my life, and as soon as I
have a preconceived notion, jumpto conclusions my brain is
dying and I'm going to time themin the same second.
My last words won't be thankyou, it will be how does that
(42:26):
work?
Tell me.
And then I'm gone.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Wow, that's powerful.
That's powerful.
You've been a blessing to many.
I so appreciate your time.
Thank you for having me mypleasure.
Thank you for listening toSmall Business Pivots.
This podcast is created andproduced by my company, boss.
Our business is growing.
Yours, boss, offers flexiblebusiness loans with business
coaching support.
(42:50):
Flexible business loans withbusiness coaching support Apply
in minutes and get approved andfunded in as little as 24 to 48
hours atbusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share it aswell.
If you need help growing yourbusiness, email me at michael at
(43:11):
michaeldmorrisoncom.
We'll see you next time onSmall Business Pivots.
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