Scaling a Small Business Without Losing Your Freedom | Adrienne Wilkerson - Small Business Pivots

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, Welcome to another Small Business Pivots.
We are over the 100 episodemark and we just continue to
keep getting more and moreguests from around the world.
Today we have a very specialperson, but our listeners know
that no one can introducethemselves and their business
like the business owner, so Iwill let you have the stage to
do that.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you so much, michael.
I'm really honored to be heretoday to talk to all of you guys
.
My name is Adrienne Wilkersonand I am the co-founder and CEO
of Beacon Media and Marketing.
We started at kind of thebeginning of the whole inbound
marketing digital marketingworld in 2012, way up in April,
alaska, and now we've grown towork with clients all over North

(00:46):
America doing digital marketing, specifically in the mental
health and addiction recoveryspace, and we've got employees
all over the country and it'sbeen quite a journey, along with
digital marketing evolving andlearning how to start a business
.
It was my second business thatI started, but learning how to
evolve from being a co-founderto a CEO and from going from

(01:09):
just two people to 30 has beenquite a wild ride and from all
being in one office to nowscattered all over the country
in four different time zones andit's been a great ride.
I've loved it and hated it andexcited about it and cried my
eyes out over it and lost sleepand celebrated.

(01:31):
I think probably most of you inthe audience have heard that I
can relate to that piece forsure.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Absolutely so.
Listeners, we're fixing tointroduce the show, but she said
it's been a wild ride, so y'allmight want to buckle up while
we're introducing the show andwe'll be right back.
Welcome to Small BusinessPivots, a podcast produced for
small business owners.
I'm your host, michael Morrison, founder and CEO of BOSS, where

(01:56):
we make business ownershipsimplified for success.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.
Apply in minutes and getapproved and funded in as little
as 24 to 48 hours atbusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.

(02:18):
All right, welcome back toSmall Business Pivot.
So you mentioned mental healthand those are the clients you
work with.
So I want to touch on that alittle bit, because I didn't
realize the types of clients andI know that in today's times a
lot of business owners aredealing with that.
So I know you're not atherapist, but since you work
with them, you might have someinsights on that.

(02:39):
But I first want to tackle.
You mentioned the differentroles and, as a business coach,
when business owners come to us,a lot of them haven't even
heard that.
In fact, when I explain that,they're like I don't know what
you're talking about.
All I can think about is whatLucy does and Michael does and
John does and I'm like no, no,no, no, take the names out.
So can you kind of share frompersonal experience how

(03:00):
important that is and how thathas helped you evolve in two,
from two employees to 30 plus.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Right, yeah, no, that's a.
That's a fantastic question.
I think I could write an entirebook on on that in and of
itself.
But you know, when you'restarting a company, especially,
like I said, it was just me andmy co-founder and I think we had
maybe one or two people when wefirst started, but you wear
every hat, you know, and, andfor us, at the beginning of the

(03:29):
transition from like, if youwant to call it, traditional
advertising to inbound marketing, especially in Alaska, it's
like 18 months behind the restof the world on a good day,
Unless you're talking oiltechnology and then we're right
up there with Texas and, youknow, everywhere else.
But we were.
It was something that was veryprominent in the rest of the

(03:50):
United States, but not quite somuch in Alaska, and so there
were no employees that knew howto do what we knew what we
needed to do.
There were great graphicdesigners, there were great
writers, but nobody really hadknew how to do this whole
digital marketing thing.
So it was so extreme for usthat my co-founder and I at the
time, we would literally learnhow to do digital marketing at

(04:11):
night and teach our employeesduring the day.
So we were literally wearingevery hat there is to wear.
And so now, when I have,sometimes when we have
challenges with employees, I'mlike I've done your job, I
understand what I'm asking ofyou because I've done this job.
You know it's evolved a lotsince I did it, but I you know,
but I understand, you know whatyou're going through in this

(04:31):
role.
So, yeah, that was one of thethings that I read Michael
Gerber's book, the E-Myth, wayback before I actually started
my very first business, whichwas a graphic design branding
business, and that made a hugeimpression on me, because he
talks about that entrepreneur,that solopreneur that gets in.

(04:53):
And examples in his book arethe carpenter who builds rocking
chairs and it was a great storyand all they want to do is
build rocking chairs andeventually they end up.
So the idea of that you needmultiple roles with different
focuses really made a hugeimpression on me.
I am great at leadership, I amgreat at operations, I am

(05:16):
terrible at books andbookkeeping and accounting, and
yet I had to do it because wedidn't have the money to hire an
accountant and I, you knowthey'd say there's very few
things, but there's certainroles you need to have.
You need to have an accountant,you need to have a banker, you
know you need to have, and I'mlike I get it, but we don't have
the funds.
I mean, we started on ashoestring budget.

(05:36):
It was just Jennifer and I'swhatever we had in our savings
at the time, which was next tonothing to start this thing, you
know.
And so it's like you just wearevery hat.
But always in the back of myhead there's like, okay, if
we're going to grow, there'sgoing to be a point where we're
going to have to startidentifying these roles and

(05:57):
naming them and having peoplestep into them.
And I always pictured myself assomebody, you know, with 18
hats on.
There's some book I read as akid, some child's book, where
this guy walked around with agazillion hats.
So that mental picture wasalways in my head that someday
I'm going to have to starttaking these hats off and giving
them to other people in thecompany to wear.

(06:18):
And those hats had names in mymind.
It was accounting, it was legal, it was, you know, an
operations manager.
It was sometimes it was ourblogger.
I did all the blogging at thecompany for a long time.
It was the graphic designer.
I'm like, okay, I don't knowwho's going to wear this hat yet
.
So I didn't always have a name,but I had a role title that I

(06:39):
was going to have to give thesehats away.
That visual helped me to belike somebody else is going to
have to wear this hat at somepoint and so.
But it has always been astruggle for us to not think of
roles as people but think ofthem as roles.
And especially once you getsomebody into that role, the

(07:00):
danger is adapting that role tothat person instead of holding
that person accountable to therole, and we fell into that a
lot.
That was a struggle and I wouldsay it took us a long time to
get really good at that, wherewe actually created role
descriptions and accountabilityand what do we want this role to

(07:24):
accomplish, and stopped talkingabout the role as a person,
like you said, like Sally, asopposed to our bookkeeper, our
finance manager, you know, andit was hard at first because it
felt like we were being veryimpersonal and separating
ourself from that person.

(07:44):
But what somebody said recentlyclarity is kindness, and I was
like man.
I wish I had a better idea ofthat early on, Because I think a
lot of the kindness that we didcreated more confusion than
clarity.
The kindness that we didcreated more confusion than
clarity because we would okay,well, we want you in this role.

(08:08):
We can't.
You're about all we can affordin this role early on and then
the company would grow andevolve past that person and it
was often a I think it was adisservice to the people to not
have more clarity around theroles and not have some of those

(08:29):
tough conversations.
And so we would kind of couchthose conversations and, you
know, kind of like, well, wewant you to grow into the role.
Well, they'd already been inthe role for a year and we'd
already adapted the role towhere they were at.
And now then to try to grow therole and them was often, I will

(08:52):
say it very rarely worked, soit would end up being very much
more painful conversations later.
And I think that's one of thebig things that I've learned
over the years.
Like, at the moment, thatpainful conversation doesn't
look, feel like something youwant to face, but it's going to
be way worse later if you don'thave that conversation now.

(09:14):
And so I call it constructiveconflict.
Like it's better to haveconflict when it's going to be
constructive than later on whenyou've avoided it.
And now there's very littlethat can be constructive about
it now it's really justdisciplinary, and that's never
where most business owners everwant to get, especially small
business owners, because wedevelop relationships with the

(09:34):
people we work with, they becomeour family.
We spend more time with themthan we do our own family and so
, like you, know their family.
Oftentimes you know that if youfire them, wife's going to have
to go back to work or somethinglike.
You understand the consequencesoftentimes and that clouds our
decisions, but oftentimes Idon't think it serves the

(09:56):
employee well.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Can Adrian, can I expand on that part right there?
Because this is where a lot ofbusiness owners get stuck.
So, first of all, they neverknow when to get their first
employee and when they finallydo, that person becomes that
person that I don't know what wewould ever do if Lulu left and

(10:19):
I'm like, yeah, you're nevergoing to hire another Lulu
because you showed her how to dothis and this and this and this
.
And, yeah, no one knows how todo all that.
You trained them.
So can we expand right there?
What did you do at that pointto have those hard conversations
and transition into roles?
Because that seems to be wherea lot of business owners get
stuck.
They're like, well, it's justeasier to do it myself and so

(10:42):
true.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think for me personally, part of it was when
I realized I wasn't seeing myfamily anymore because I was
working all the time.
I mean, my son was, I think,going into kindergarten when
Jennifer and I merged companiesin 2012.
And I mean I would work tillsix, seven, you know well till
dinner time, take a half hourhour break, make dinner, have a

(11:07):
few minutes, put kiddo to bed,wave at the husband and go back
to work.
You know, at the home officeafter I'd been at the regular
office all day and it was therewas a come to Jesus conversation
between my husband and I wherehe's just like we don't see you
anymore and he's like, even whenwe do see you, you're not here,

(11:28):
you're not present.
And I never wanted to be thatmom, I never wanted to be that
wife, and I realized I hadn'ttalked to my friends in months
and months.
Some of them had gotten engagedand it was like I liked it on
Facebook and that was about themost that I had done and it was

(11:49):
like this is not the life Iwanted.
This is not why I started abusiness.
I started a business to helppeople and, honestly, to have
freedom and control, and Irealized I had no more freedom
and I had no more control.
And that was a pretty seriouswake-up call for me that I
needed to start letting go ofcontrol, because it really was a
control thing for me.

(12:09):
It wasn't that I didn't havepeople that were capable, I just
didn't always trust them to doit the way I did it.
And I had to come to grips andpart of it was I had some really
impactful mentors and coachesduring that time that really
helped me walk through that.
To you know, coach me through.

(12:32):
You have to understand this isthere are people out there that
will do it differently than youand it might be better, it might
not, but it's just becausethey're not doing it like you
did.
It doesn't mean it's wrong,it's just different.
And if you never give peoplethe option to do it their way,
you'll never see what they'recapable of and they might fail

(12:53):
and you might have to pick upthe pieces again.
But that's not the end of theworld.
You give them feedback and youtrain and you move on.
So I would say having thosementors and coaches in my life
and that come to Jesus was allvery impactful to be able to
help me work through, becauseI'd get stuck in my own head.
You know, and it's a smallbusiness, and you got your head

(13:17):
down.
You're just plowing, you gotpayroll to make, you've got, you
know all these things andyou're probably not taking home
a paycheck, but you're payingeverybody else.
If you've got employees oryou're barely making it, you're
paying all the bills for thecompany and then taking
whatever's left and it's reallynot sustainable.

(13:37):
And I think that's what I had tocome to grips with is what I
was doing was not sustainable.
It wasn't sustainablefinancially and it certainly
wasn't the lifestyle that Iwanted.
I was going to drive myselfinto an early grave if I wasn't
careful, so that was so for me,it was kind of hitting that rock
bottom, if you will, of justyou know, really, things have to

(13:59):
change.
So, and even once I realizedthat it wasn't like change
happened overnight, like it wasa process and it was grueling
and it took a while and it washaving to trust people and then
not be upset with them when theyfailed and had to give them the
grace to fail and to give themfeedback and to learn again.

(14:20):
And it's not easy and it takestwice as long as doing it
yourself.
But if you don't train them andgive them feedback and help
them know and understand whatyou're wanting from them and
what success looks like in theirrole, you're never going to be
able to multiply past yourselfand you'll be stuck in that

(14:42):
place of that grind and thatemotional like millstone around
your neck forever.
And so I think part of it isreally deciding do I want to
stay small and micro businessand just me.
Or do I want that freedom anddo I want that control over my
time?
Maybe not so much you know whatall's going on at work, but

(15:06):
that control over my time.
Maybe not so much what all'sgoing on at work, but that
control over my time.
And if you do, then you have tomake some really specific
decisions and stick with it,because it's not going to work
right away.
It's going to take a while, butthat doesn't mean you failed or
it was the wrong decision.
It's going to take a while, butthat doesn't mean you failed or

(15:26):
it was the wrong decision.
It just means you kind of gotto push through that period
where it feels like you'recreating more chaos than solving
anything.
But that's just.
That's the middle.
You know, they always saychange is exciting at first,
it's hell in the middle and thenit's great at the end.
And so that middle place, Ithink, is where a lot of us get
stuck because we're like thisisn't working I can do it better

(15:47):
myself and we take back overand we don't push through to the
other side, where it's actuallynow working and I can say after
13 years, I've pushed throughand it is better on the other
side.
It is worth the hard middlepart, but don't quit when you're

(16:07):
in the slump.
You got to stick with it untilit comes out the other side.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
It is worth the hard middle part, but don't quit when
you're in the slump.
You got to stick with it untilit comes out the other side.
Wow, you sound like everybusiness owner I've worked with.
This is truth.
People, this is truth.
We all go through it, even as acoach and having owned
businesses since, for over twoand a half decades now, every
new business, we still gothrough it.
I know it's coming, but let meask so do you feel when you were

(16:32):
in that stage we'll move onafter this but when you were in
that stage of rock bottom,saying something's got to change
, and then you tried to let gobut you still had control Would
you say that the quality ofpeople you were trying to find
was not there?
In other words, I hear businessowners saying, yeah, but I

(16:54):
can't find any good employees.
Do you think it was theemployee shortage or do you feel
like it was you being thebottleneck, the problem?

Speaker 2 (17:07):
being the bottleneck, the problem oh, that's a loaded
question.
I think it was both.
As leaders, we always have tolook at ourselves first and so,
yes, I think there was a lotthat I could have done better.
I could have let go of controland not snatched it back.
You know, kind of hindsight'salways 20-20.
As far as the employee side, Ithink one of the biggest things

(17:31):
that I learned was to hire forculture first and train the
skills.
Now there's some skills you'rejust you need to hire somebody
that's got the culture and theskills at some point.
But when the culture's there,when there's a values alignment
between the employee and thecompany or the owners of the

(17:51):
company, almost everything elseis details and that's going to
work out.
Might be bumpy, it might bemessy, in fact it probably will
be both, but that part can workout when you've got the
alignment and got people thatare as excited about your why as
you are Now.
Granted, I think this is anothertrap small business owners fall

(18:12):
into.
Your employees are never goingto be as excited about the
business as you are.
They're your employees.
They don't own the businesslike you do.
That was a hard lesson for metoo, of like why aren't they as
excited about as I am?
They are, but you're givingthem a paycheck.
This is a job.
This is not their passion, thisis not their baby.

(18:34):
They did not sacrifice.
They don't lose sleep over thislike we do, and that's okay.
But we as business owners haveto understand that we cannot
expect our employees to bewilling to sacrifice at the
level that we are.
But I think business owners geta little disillusioned with
that and get upset sometimeswith their employees who are

(18:57):
passionate but at the end of theday they don't have their life
savings invested in this, theydon't have their name on this
and it's a different buy-in andagain, that's okay.
But I do think it's both.
I think it is finding the rightpeople, but sometimes,
especially when markets aretight, hire for culture, train

(19:19):
for skills.
The culture piece is going towithstand a lot that the skills
part won't, as far as businesschallenges and the ups and downs
that just naturally happen.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
One of my all-time favorite mentors.
He was a coach to me.
He said hire on character.
Because why do we usually firepeople Character?
It's usually their tardiness.
They stole something.
They're on their phone all thetime, Don't follow directions.

(19:55):
And so I think that's greatadvice, Everything you said.
So was there a system that youfollowed so you recognize you
were at rock bottom.
Something's got to change.
You started defining roles, buthow did you lay that out?
Because most business ownersstill don't have money to hire
an accountant and a designer anda blog writer to hire all those

(20:16):
roles.
So how did you transition intothat?
Did you have a system or aprocess, or got lucky?

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I would say a lot of trial and error, a lot of
mistakes, a lot of learning frommy mistakes.
I now tell my people themistake is not the problem.
Not learning from the mistakeis the problem.
And that is very much what Iexperienced when making mistakes
is part of business, it's partof life.
If you're not making mistakes,you're not pushing the envelope,

(20:45):
you're not trying new things.
The problem is when you don'tlearn from those mistakes, when
you're not willing to figure outwhat was a mistake, what can I
do better next time?
What part did I nail?
What part did I miss?
So I read a ton of books.
I mean, I have shelves andshelves and shelves of business
books.
So there was a lot I took fromscaling up.

(21:09):
Um, that was a really goodsystem.
It was too big for us as asmall business.
I think it's a little bit moreset to maybe medium or
enterprise level businesses, butthey do have, um, a chart in
there.
That's that identifies a lot ofthe key roles in a business and

(21:30):
they have a place where you'resupposed to write who's
responsible for that role andthey're like watch out, when you
have a role that has fourpeople's name by it or you have
one person's name in like eightdifferent roles.
Well, that was what oursusually was and that was a
really good visual eye-openerfor me of like, okay, I need to

(21:50):
start defining these roles andremoving myself from certain
ones.
So that was a really good one.
I read a lot of like I said, alot of books, listened to a lot
of podcasts, worked with acouple business coaches that
helped me define.
I think one of the big mistakesthat I made back then is I
didn't find a coach that wasmore familiar with my industry,

(22:15):
and that was hard to findbecause my industry was so new.
There wasn't, and so I wouldtry to adapt stuff from
traditional advertising world.
About 40% of the time it worked.
And so I would try to look atother businesses that were
similar to what I wanted tobuild and I'd literally go to
their webpage and look at theirstaff profiles if they had our

(22:39):
team tab and start to look atwhat other companies were
identifying as roles.
So I'd try to find companiesthat as near as I could tell on
their website were like the nextstep or two ahead of me and I'd
see what roles that where theywere using.
And then the small businessadministration was a really big

(23:00):
help for me.
I would go to our local groupand they would kind of help me
develop some of those very firstjob descriptions.
That was super helpful, butagain, there was almost nothing
that was specific to my industry.
So that was one of my bigchallenges to overcome.
That doesn't really exist now,but 10 years ago we were making

(23:22):
it up as we went along, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
I think most of us are, regardless.
If the information is out there, that's great.
Information, though, is to gocheck your competition that's
bigger than you.
You can even do that today forthese smaller businesses and
just see, okay, what roles am Igoing to need in the near future
, that I should be start puttingsome money back or whatever to
hire them, and I also wanted toclarify just a little bit um on

(23:46):
the small businessadministration for those
listeners that that's alsoreferred to as the SBA, so they
might see the SBA a lot morethan they will.
The small business.
It's the same thing, and that'sa great resource, because most
of their stuff is free, and then, I think, don't they still have
SCORE Are you familiar withthat where they do the free
coaching?

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Some cities have SCORE I think it's called SCORE.
That's also by the SBA, so theyhave a ton of free resource.
That's a great point.
I forgot all about them.
Um, so you're moving along andthrough this transition.
The name of the podcast issmall business pivot.
So what were some pivots thatyou made along the way?
Because you were in a newindustry and it's like, oh crap,

(24:27):
that's not working.
We need to go do this.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Anything like that happen industry and it's like,
oh crap, that's not working, weneed to go do this.
Anything like that happenConstantly.
Okay, definitely.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Because we not only have business.
You're listening to SmallBusiness Pivots.
This podcast is produced by mycompany, boss.
Our business is helping yoursgrow.
Boss offers business loans withbusiness coaching support.

(24:57):
If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button and share it aswell.
Now let's get back to ourspecial guest.
What were some pivots that youmade along the way?
Because you were in a newindustry and it's like oh crap,
that's not working.
We need to go do this.
Anything like that happen.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Constantly Okay, definitely, because we not only
had business pivots but we hadindustry pivots.
So, like we had one, this onewas definitely stands out very
clearly for me and it's moreindustry specific.
But I think all industries havetheir versions of this.
So for us, when we were firstdoing marketing, I mean,

(25:36):
facebook ads didn't even exist.
Google ads were in theirinfancy.
Now they're like standard, butFacebook didn't even have ads.
So it was all organic content.
How good you wrote that post,how well your hook was.
It was all based on quality.
That's how you got followers,that's how you got engagement

(25:58):
and all of our clients.
You know we'd monitor all ofour clients and how everybody
was doing and all of our statswere, you know, doing this.
But they were moving in theright direction and literally
from one week to the next,everything started tanking.
We hadn't changed a thing andyet our engagement was down.
People weren't seeing our stufflike they were.

(26:19):
It was just the very thingclients were paying us for was
not happening.
From one week to the next, itwas panic city.
I mean, it was just scramblingto figure out what in the world
happened, because at that pointFacebook was not telling anybody
what they were doing.
They were still figuring it outtoo, and so we found, 18 layers

(26:42):
deep, some memo that went outto Facebook employees.
I don't even know how we foundit Somewhere on the internet.
We found it to Facebookemployees.
I don't even know how we foundit Somewhere on the internet.
We found it probably dark web.
Anyway, we found it, and it wastelling them that they were
shifting to pay-to-play and younow had to boost your posts if
you were expected to haveanybody view them.
And so they were literallysaying that they were going to

(27:04):
be basically penalizing peoplewho weren't paying to boost
posts.
So this was even before adscame out, and so that was insane
, because now we had to go backto all of our clients, because
not only did they have to pay usto create the social media
posts, now they had to payFacebook to boost them, or what
we were doing wasn't going tomake any difference at all.

(27:26):
So how do you go back and tellyour clients from one week to
the next?
Now you got to pay us twice asmuch as you were last month or
last week.
I mean, we thought our world wasover at that point.
It was just like, well, we didit, we figured it out.
We had some great clients thatwere just like, well, that sucks
for you and for us Pretty much,pretty much, yes.

(27:49):
So we just owned it.
We were super transparent withour clients and just we're like
we're all figuring this outtogether, and we had some
clients get pretty upset andfire us.
Actually, many of them cameback because they're like, oh
okay, you guys weren't justblowing smoke, this is going on
everywhere.
Okay, you guys weren't justblowing smoke, this is going on

(28:10):
everywhere.
But that was one of the andwe've had many pivots like that
through the years with ourindustry, because every time
Facebook changes or Instagramchanges or Google changes, we
have to shake up all of ourservices.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Which is more often now.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Way more often.
And now AI, I mean it's likeone day to the next, like we're
laughing with QuickBooks fromfive o'clock one day to 7am the
next.
Yeah, and so we've had to do alot of pivots.
I think some of the role pivotshave been some of the most
challenging, where my co-founderand I had to, you know, move

(28:49):
more into our lanes and identifywhat those lanes were.
That's been really challengingas well, to think of ourselves
in our role in the business andnot as an owner, because an
owner, you stick your nose ineverything.
You know you're the owner.
But if, in your role as CEO, Ihave different responsibilities

(29:13):
and expectations and if I don'tlet my CMO do her job or my
marketing person do their job ormy client account manager do
their job and I get involved,I'm not going to keep them as an
employee for very long andthey're not going to be
effective at their job if I keepsticking my nose in it.
And they're not going to beeffective as they're at their
job if I keep sticking my nosein it, and so it's hard to sit

(29:35):
back and be like, okay, but haveyou called the client yet?
You need to call the client.
Have you called the client yet.
And so do not micromanage andlet people make mistakes, let
people learn, um, and so, yeah,that one, that one's been very
challenging, um, those kind of.
Again, you're almost keep movingback and farther and farther
from your clients and from theday to day, because I used to

(29:59):
know every single employee.
I'd interviewed every singleemployee.
I have employees now that Ihave never met in person and
they worked for me, some of themfor years, and I've talked to
him on zoom, but I've never methim in person.
And they worked for me, some ofthem for years, and I've talked
to him on zoom, but I've nevermet him in person.
and that's weird from going,yeah that is everybody and being
intimately involved in theirlives.

(30:20):
And we're we're still allpretty close, but it's yeah it's
a real.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
It's a real business now, so you got to treat it like
a real business.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
We had to grow up.
Yeah, we had to start actinglike adults here.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, I have a.
This might be probably asubjective answer to this
question from many, but I havefound the more clarity that
people define their roles, thebetter employees they find, and,
from my perspective as a coach,I believe that's because the

(30:56):
great employees want to work forsomebody that's got their stuff
together.
I don't want to go figure outyour mess.
Do you find that to be true orsimilar in your industry?
Yes, if you find betteremployees, the more clear you
are on their expectations, theirrole, their description.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yes, and I think a big part of it is because we got
the right people for the rightjob, and oftentimes, when we
didn't have clarity around ourjob descriptions or job roles,
we'd get somebody who wasn't atall qualified for it, and that
was more our fault than theirs,because we hadn't done a good
job of telling them what we werehiring them for, and so they
would come in thinking they weredoing this.

(31:34):
We're like oh no, no, no, it'sthis over here and they're going
that wasn't on the jobdescription.
I'm like, oh no, it was, but itwas my understanding of it.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Not maybe an industry standard version.
Maybe an industry standardversion or that was the weird
thing of when they read the samejob description.
I wrote.
What they understood from whatI said wasn't always what I
understood from what I wrote andthat was funky, like their
expectations.
So I got to the point where Iwould have people that were in a

(32:06):
similar role in the companyread my job descriptions before
I put them public and go what doyou understand?
This means Because they wouldcome back with stuff.
I'm like you read that intothat you know kind of thing
they're like well, yeah, whenyou said this and I'm going, oh
okay, I never in a while, justdreams thought somebody would

(32:27):
take that from what I said.
So having some of those kind ofdouble-checked was really
helpful.
Now with AI, oh my gosh, it'samazing.
You can run stuff through chat,gpt or perplexity and it's
making things so much faster andsimpler.
But having clear jobdescriptions, I think, attracted

(32:48):
the right people for the rightroles.
Having clear job descriptions,I think, attracted the right
people for the right roles andso they made for better
employees, like you said.
Yes, the better employees theytend to pick better companies.
They're more qualified, they'remore skilled.
They've done this before.
They've got experience, I thinkthey can recognize sometimes
the job descriptions.
These guys don't know whatthey're doing, but now employees

(33:08):
will vet you on a whole notherlevel than they used to.
We do a lot of recruitmentmarketing and this is what we
warn employers is that yourpotential next employee is going
to look at all of your socialprofiles, both you personally
and your company.
They're going to want to see ifyour culture is right for what

(33:30):
they're looking for.
They're going to look at yourwebsite Are you active?
Is your website current?
Does it look like somethingthey can connect with?
And this is the really fun one.
They will go direct message onsocial media your employees and
interview them to see if this isa company they want to work for
.
So you need to know what youremployees are going to say about

(33:52):
you, your existing employees,because people that are looking
for jobs are looking for jobs ina whole different way than they
used to.
So by the time you getface-to-face with them in an
interview, they've alreadyinterviewed you and pretty much
done a background at leastsocial media background check on
you, and they've probablytalked to at least one or two of
your employees.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, those are solid points and I will share with
business owners that say Icontinue to hear them say no one
wants to work anymore.
And yes, there are certainpeople that don't, but the
majority of people you'retalking about they don't go.
They learned how to livewithout during COVID.
They don't want to go throughthe trouble of working for a

(34:33):
cancerous, toxic company again.
They will wait it out untilthey find the right company.
So that's what I found forthose business owners that keep
saying that, okay, so we'vemoved through pivots, we've got
organized.
Do you systemize anything likesystems, processes, sops?
Can you share a little bit onthat of how a business owner,

(34:55):
how important those are and howyou got to that place?

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yes.
So I, as a creative myself andas somebody who owns and runs a
creative business, I was veryanti systems and processes.
For a long time I felt like, asoften as our industry changes
and shifted, it seemed like wewere messing with our processes.
Every other day I'd write a SOPand two days later it wasn't

(35:21):
valid anymore.
So it got a little discouragingto write those.
But I was talking to anoperations coach actually.
But I was talking to anoperations coach actually and he
said something that really mademe stop and think and really
evaluate.
And he, just because I wascomplaining about well, we're
creatives, the more box we putpeople in, they're not going to

(35:42):
be creative anymore.
And he's like you got itcompletely backwards.
And I was like what?
No, I don't have.
You know, I've lived, this'mnot, this is backwards.
And he goes no, you need toswitch your mindset.
Because he's like the more youhave solid systems and processes
in place, the more creativeyour people can be, because

(36:03):
they're doing what they youhired them to do.
They're doing their actualcreative job and they're not
having to stress about how theydo it or who does this go to
next once I'm done.
He's like it's all written outfor them.
They've got a box.
They can be as creative as theywant within the box, but when
you don't have a box, allthey're thinking about is the
lack of a box.

(36:23):
They're not thinking about whatthey get to do in the box.
And that was like mind blowingfor me to have to shift that
mindset.
And so we went all in onsystems and processes after that
and I have to say he was 100%correct.
So we use a system calledConfluence.

(36:44):
It's actually an Australianbased company and it's an
Australian-based company andthey've built this kind of
online.
I don't even know what to callit.
It's almost a database, but youcan put PDFs in there, you can
put Word documents in there, youcan type things out, things
hyperlinked to everywhere else,and it's got a great search

(37:07):
function, and so that's whereall of our systems and processes
live.
So there's, you know, there'sspaces they call them for each
department, and within thatthey've got they can have all
their pages and sub pages.
And so now there's, you know,and then we can hyperlink
between departments, becausewe've got stuff that'll start in

(37:27):
graphic design, move to web andthen have to move to social and
then have to move to paid ads.
So there's interconnectedsystems too, not just systems
within.
This is how you write a socialmedia post, you know, kind of a
thing.
So that really wastransformational for us, and
what we did was we incentivizedeach department-ish.

(37:52):
At that point that was like oneperson wasn't a whole
department.
We called it a departmentbecause we were trying to think
like a more company To be big,you have to think big.
Right.
So it's like we've only got oneperson doing paid ads, but
you're the paid ads department.
They're like oh, I'm adepartment.
We're like.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
I got a title finally .

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah, yes, and it actually was.
It was powerful, it waseffective and we're like help us
build this company.
What do you do every day?
That is repeatable, and so westarted having the team own
their own space withinConfluence and we would actually

(38:36):
we paid for.
We expect about five to 10% ofour employees' times per month
to be invested in education andhelping us maintain their
systems and processes for thestuff that they work on every
day.
Because it's one thing if I comein and write a system or an SOP

(38:57):
I only really know this muchanymore but that employee who's
doing it every day and is on thefront line, when they get to
own their own system and writingit now, it still has to get
reviewed by me or now reviewedby their supervisor and approved
because they could be totallyout to lunch.

(39:17):
But when they own what they'redoing, there's a whole different
level of buy-in that if I handthem this SOP and say this is
what you have to do from now on,there's instant wait.
You're telling me what to do.
You're telling me how to do myjob that you hired me to do.
Why did you hire me then?
Like they might not say that,but that's the internal dialogue

(39:40):
that's going on.
And so when you empower them towrite down what they do every
day, there's such a differentsense of pride of like wow, look
what I do all day.
This do every day.
There's such a different senseof pride of like, wow, look what
I do all day.
This is a lot, this is reallycool.
And you can reinforce that.
Be like man, I didn't even knowyou were doing this, that's
really cool.
When did you start doing that?
Like, oh well, facebook changedthis or that, and so I had to

(40:01):
adapt and do this and that.
And you're like that's reallycool.
So you get to reinforce thatinnovation and that ownership of
what they do every day.
And that was how we were able toactually now go back and
document what we did, becausethere's no way me, as a CEO and
a business owner, had the timeto write all those SOPs Right.

(40:22):
I mean, it was hard enoughreviewing them and I'd go back.
I'm like, okay, I don't evenunderstand what you're talking
about, you know.
So there were moments of thattoo, of like, okay, facebook's
clearly evolved, google ads isclearly evolved.
Um, but that was, that was howwe actually did it, because at
first, I was trying to do it allbecause I do like systems and I

(40:43):
do like processes and I do likestructure, which is odd for a
creative.
But that's part of what makesme good as an operations person
trying to do it all because I dolike systems and I do like
processes and I do likestructure, which is odd for a
creative, but that's part ofwhat makes me good as an
operations person.
Right, I can talk to thecreators and talk to the
engineers at the same time, so,but I try to sit down and do all
the SOPs and I'm just like Ihate my life right now.

(41:05):
I like systems, but I don't know.
So once we empowered the peopleto do it and it was rocky at
first people were like why areyou giving me something else to
do?
And I was like no, we want tosee what you're doing.
We want to see how well you'redoing it.
You're succeeding at this job.
It's not my role to come in andtell you what to do when I'm

(41:26):
already seeing that you'resucceeding.
So I want to bring yourexpertise to this SOP.
And when we reframed it thatway, that shifted a lot of
mindsets and we still had somethat loved it and dug in and
just took it somewhere I nevereven imagined, so far beyond
what I could imagine.
And others are like no, just no,whether they said it to my face

(41:52):
or whether they you could seeit Right, or passively,
aggressively, just didn't do it,yeah, so we eventually ended up
putting a position in placejust in the last few years, of
somebody who actually owns.
They are our systems andprocesses coordinator, and so
part of their role is actuallyto be that support to the people

(42:16):
that really struggle with SOPs.
They might be really into theirjob especially the creatives
but they don't think in terms ofsystems and processes and it
kills their soul to have to sitdown and write out what they do
every day.
In a system.
We'd get some stuff back fromcreatives and it's like okay,
you have a z, f, g, p, oh, andthere's m, but none of it's in

(42:42):
the right order.
Nobody could follow what thiswas, and so we did have somebody
who's a very systemsoperational minded person to
come in and almost just tell mewhat you do every day.
Yeah, tell me how you do thisand be able to document it and
then organize it and and make itsomething that somebody else

(43:06):
could follow.
Um, and that's part of how wedid it too.
It's like you want to takevacation time, we want to give
you a vacation time, but if wedon't have a system so that
somebody else can cover you.
You're never going to get to goon vacation.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
And you're going to get phone calls if you do.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Right, you're never really going to be able to go,
and we want you to go.
We want you to be able to goand we want you to go.
We want you to be able to takedown time.
You work hard.
We want you to be able to havetime with your family, but we
need to know what you do, sothat also, you're not having to
come back to a huge mess andstress the whole time you're on
vacation.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, that's uh.
You shared some golden nuggetsthere, and I want to pull out
two of those bullet pointsbecause so many business owners
just don't have the time forthat.
And so one of my great friends,he wrote a top seller book
called Systemology Systemology.
His name's David Jennings.
It was forwarded by MichaelGerber of the E-Myth and he at

(44:02):
the time of this.
Recording his new book actuallycomes out tomorrow, which I got
a proofread before it came out.
Recording his new book actuallycomes out tomorrow, which I got
a proofread before it came out.
And so he talks about a systemschampion, which is exactly what
you're doing.
Let someone else be in chargeof that.
They don't have authority, theydon't hire, they don't fire,
they just make sure it'sorganized.
And that was the second bulletpoint you talked about was using

(44:23):
Confluence, because there areseveral platforms out there.
Using Confluence because thereare several platforms out there.
If you're a business owner andyour systems and processes
aren't sticking, it's probablybecause you print them out, put
them in a binder and it's on thecoffee shop one day, or the
coffee table the next day, theowner's desk the next.
No one can find them.
If no one can find them,they're not going to use them.
So, confluence, but before wego, I want to make sure we talk

(44:45):
about you, your business andmarketing.
So, um, yeah, tell us a littlebit about your business, what
you do, maybe some insights ondigital marketing that can be
helpful for business owners,because I know a lot of them are
struggling right now with leadgeneration.
Their websites aren't working.
Almost your description ofFacebook how everything tanked.

(45:07):
Well, I know, with all thelatest Google algorithms,
everybody's websites are tanking.
Do you got any tips that canhelp people?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yes, so you're absolutely right.
Website traffic is tankingacross the board, especially if
it's you know your traffic isyour primary lead gen tool.
If it's, you know your trafficis your primary lead gen tool.
So some of the things thatwe're doing for our clients that
we're seeing make a differencein.
That is one you kind of have tostart changing your mindset

(45:38):
about the purpose of yourwebsite.
It used to be the hub of allyour marketing is what we would
say.
Whether you're marketing onsocial or doing paid ads, or
content or videos or whatever,it all should direct back to
your website.
That is your lead gen hub.
That isn't entirely gone, butnow what's happening, as you

(46:01):
identified, is with AI, peopleare asking chat, gpt or
perplexity the question insteadof Google and perplexity or
whatever is not necessarilysending you or sending your
potential client to your website.
They're not giving that listing.
They're taking information fromyour website to educate them to

(46:23):
give a good answer to the enduser.
So we have this blocker betweenthe client or the potential
client and your website as asmall business owner.
And the same thing's happeningwith paid ads, because people
aren't going to Google as muchanymore, so they're not seeing
paid ads with used to be gold inthe lead gen world.

(46:43):
If you wanted leads quick, ifyou wanted to get people at the
bottom end of that funnel, theyare ready to make a decision.
Paid ads, especially Google ads, was your ace in the hole.
That's not the case anymore.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's almost like there's a gatekeeper Back in the
day.
Cold calls, you got to get pastthe gatekeeper and it sounds
like that's what's going on now.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
That's a great term for it.
Ai has become the gatekeeper.
So one of the pivots that we'reseeing be more effective right
now is actually shifting over toads on social media platforms,
because people are stillscrolling, whether they're doom
scrolling or not, they're stillscrolling right.
So ads on social are becomingmore valuable than they used to

(47:28):
be.
They, you know, used to be metaads were nowhere near as
effective as Google ads, becausethey were more awareness and
branding ads, whereas Google adswere like bottom of the funnel,
like I said earlier, likedecision making, you know right
then.
But so we're seeing a shiftthere to we're getting a lot
more direct traffic from metaads, from social ads.

(47:51):
You know, whether it's LinkedInor TikTok or whatever platforms
you want to embrace, instagramis now being indexed by Google,
which this is brand new.
This just happened within thelast couple of weeks.
Google never used to indexInstagram, so AI plays off of

(48:12):
whatever Google does, becausethey're using Google's platform
and Bing and all those to do alltheir searching.
So now AI can essentially indexanything that's posted on
Instagram.
They could do that in the pastwith Facebook and whatnot, but
not Instagram.
In the past with Facebook andwhatnot, but not Instagram.

(48:32):
So Instagram's powereffectiveness has skyrocketed
very, very recently.
So it's become more than just akind of lifestyle casual.
Let's post some fun videos,kind of, or pretty pictures of
me hiking, or here's my food.
It's evolving now to becomemuch more of a powerhouse.
So one pivot a company can makeis to focus more on your social

(48:54):
media ads than maybe you did onGoogle in the past.
So that's one pivot.
Another one is you need tothink of the content on your
website, your articles, yourblogs, as educating AI as much
as they are interacting withyour potential customer.
So the term that's emergingwe'll see if it sticks is

(49:18):
generative engine optimization,so GEO, which is confusing
because geo-targeting was a term.
So again, we'll see if itsticks.
Another one that's emerging isAIVO, so artificial intelligence
I forget what the visualoptimization I think.

(49:38):
So there's a lot of crap aboutit out there.
We've got some blogs on ourwebsite at beaconmmcom, talking
about how businesses canleverage and pivot with GEO to
accommodate what AI is doing.
So the weird thing that'shappening not weird, it's a

(50:00):
natural evolution.
But people will maybe askperplexity or chat GPT what are
the best five Thai restaurantsnear me?
So instead of going to Googleand searching for that.
They're asking AI.
So AI will give them a list nowand may or may not link to your

(50:21):
actual business.
So then what happens is theconsumer is then searching for
you, usually by name.
Consumer is then searching foryou, usually by name.
So they're actually looking upyou know, thai Corner Cafe or
whatever it is, because that'sone of the ones that AI
recommended to them.
So then they're looking andthey're going to your website to

(50:43):
see.
So they're still going towebsites.
So you still need good userinterface, good user experience.
You still need to optimize whatyou want people to do when they
get to your website.
Is it call you, is it fill outa form, is it book an
appointment, whatever that is?
But your articles and yourcontent need to be optimized for
AI, and that's we couldprobably talk for two hours on
that, which is why I say gocheck out our articles because

(51:06):
we're talking about that in moredepth and give you actual
bullet points for how to adaptyour content to get picked up by
AI.
It's so new and raw that we'reslinging a lot of stuff at the
wall and see what sticks, andanybody who tells you different
is selling you something it'sprobably not going to work,

(51:30):
tells you different, is sellingyou something, it's probably not
going to work.
So there's a lot of people outthere just like there always has
been with the SEO that says wecan get you to the top page of
Google.
You just do this.
There's basic principles thatare important, but there is no
guarantee.
It's this weird amalgamation ofwriting content so that AI
wants to pick you up, which isanswering questions.

(51:51):
That's the number one thing.
People don't search keywords inchat, gpt.
They ask questions.
So think about what are thenumber one questions you get
asked as a business owner andanswer those questions in your
articles and blogs.
That is the simplest basicanswer for what can help make

(52:15):
this transition.
And that's been true in thepast, but we also did a lot with
keywords and all of that, andthat's not going away.
But we're adding another layerto it, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's graduating.
It's going into its master'sdegree.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Maybe a PhD at some point.
Phd yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Because, and for business owners I know a lot of
small business owners haven'teven dove into AI other than
maybe ask chat, a simplequestion just to see what it
does.
But for those of you that arelistening, this information
could be changed in just twomonths or two days because it's
moving so fast.

(52:56):
So go hire an expert, which ismy next thing for you.
How do people get a hold of you?
What can you do for them?

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Absolutely Well.
Like I said, our website isbeaconmmcom and we're on all the
social media channels.
Usually it's atbeaconmmmediaandmarketing, so
two, ms, it's usually how youcan find us on any of the social
channels.
We try to stay on top of this.
For business owners, we try totalk about what's working,

(53:24):
what's not about what's working,what's not.
So even if you're just lookingfor good information about what
to do and what not to do, we'dlove for you to follow us.
We'd love to ask questions ofwhat you would like to hear more
about, because we're kind ofall learning together right now
from that standpoint.
So we help small andmedium-sized businesses with

(53:45):
digital marketing.
So that's Facebook ads, like Isaid before.
That's Google.
That's building out yourwebsite, keeping your website
optimized as a lead generationtool.
We do graphic design, so we'llbuild out your brand for you.
If you're wanting to rebrand orupdate that brand, we do all of
that stuff.
We do all the social mediastuff too, so we can represent

(54:06):
you on social media.
Make sure that you're gettingstuff out there constantly and
being in front of your potentialcustomers where they're at, in
a way that connects to them andreally makes them feel heard and
like they want to pick you, asopposed to your competitor,
because you connect with them.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Yeah Well, I encourage all of our listeners
to reach out to you.
I know a lot about you and thecompany, so I know your quality
and one of the things you saidthat was key and I will share
this with business ownersbecause they don't know.
We don't know what we don'tknow.
If any marketing company of anykind is promising a guarantee
of any kind, 10x top of the,those are the people you need to

(54:50):
stay away from.
There are no guarantees in themarketing world.
There are practice, bestpractices, there are things that
we test right AB testing and dothings, but if there's a
guarantee, that should be kindof a red flag for you small
business owners, maybe to findsomebody else like yourself.
So I always end with one lastquestion and that is if you're
in a room full of businessowners, different seasons of

(55:13):
business, different industrieswhat is one applicable piece of
advice, a quote, a book,anything that you could share
that could be applicable for allof them?

Speaker 2 (55:25):
I would say the two books I would, or maybe three
that I would really encourageeverybody to read.
If you haven't read MichaelGerber's E-Myth, I think,
especially if you're a smallerbusiness or you're looking to
graduate to the next size ofbusiness, that one is
foundational.
I mean, I've probably got amillion books, but another one

(55:46):
is Simon Sinek's why.
Because if you don't know yourwhy, it's really hard to market,
it's hard to hire the rightpeople, it's hard to get your
butt up in the morning everymorning when times get tough, if
you don't know your why.
And Simon does an amazing jobof helping you figure out what
your why is.
And then another one that Ireally recommend is either Reset

(56:12):
or Switch by Dan Heath, andit's talking about change and
how to affect change in yourcompany, especially when change
is hard, and they get reallygood into the psychological
levels of how to motivateemployees beyond just the stick,
because that's usually where wego right.
So change is the most constantthing we have, along with death

(56:35):
and taxes.
So these books have reallyhelped me through the years in
that evolution of really tryingto affect positive change in the
company and not lose my mindthrough it.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Yeah, great advice listeners.
I encourage you again to gofollow Adrienne, go check out
her website and their services.
You will not be disappointed.
And, adrienne, thank you somuch.
You've been a blessing to manyand a wealth of information.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Thank you so much, Michael, for this time.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
My pleasure.
Thank you for listening toSmall Business Pivots.
This podcast is created andproduced by my company, boss.
Our business is growing yours.
Boss, offers flexible businessloans with business coaching
support.

(57:29):
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Scaling a Small Business Without Losing Your Freedom | Adrienne Wilkerson

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Scaling a Small Business Without Losing Your Freedom | Adrienne Wilkerson