November 27, 2024 • 38 mins
Discover the essence of entrepreneurship with Wayne Mullins, the visionary CEO of Ugly Mug Marketing. Wayne's journey from a young lawn care entrepreneur to a seasoned business leader is packed with wisdom on patience and the importance of sticking to time-tested business principles. He reveals how understanding when to push forward and when to pivot can be the key to navigating the turbulent waters of entrepreneurship. Through his personal stories, Wayne paints a vivid picture of how impatience can be both a hurdle and a teacher in the entrepreneurial landscape.
Our conversation with Wayne dives into the heart of what drives successful business endeavors—freedom and passion over profit. Wayne shares how his early experiences, including the influence of Zig Ziglar, shaped his approach to business. He emphasizes the power of prioritizing customer needs and aligning business goals with those insights, which can lead to genuine and sustainable growth. Wayne’s transition from a lawn care business to founding a marketing agency serves as a powerful case study on the broader implications of marketing and the critical need for operational excellence before embarking on grand marketing plans.
For those looking to make their mark, Wayne provides hands-on advice for defining your customer avatar and making your brand stand out in a crowded field. He introduces the "magic journal page" exercise, a tool for understanding customers more intimately, and stresses the importance of being different rather than just better. Wayne’s insights on marketing's delayed impact highlight the necessity of patience and experimentation. As we conclude the episode, we express our gratitude to Wayne for his invaluable contributions and encourage listeners to immerse themselves in more episodes filled with rich insights and guidance for entrepreneurial success.
Wayne Mullins: CEO and Founder of Ugly Mug Marketing
Website: https://www.uglymugmarketing.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fireyourself/
#MarketingStrategies #GetUnstuck #BusinessGrowth #EntrepreneurJourney #PatienceInBusiness #SmallBusinessGrowth #EntrepreneurLife #BusinessStrategy #BusinessSuccess #Entrepreneurship #BusinessPodcast #PodcastEpisode #SmallBusinessPivots #Success #BusinessOwners #ZigZiglar #MichaelDMorrison #OklahomaCity #BOSS #EntrepreneurAdvice #WayneMullins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome to another Small Business, pivots.
We have another special guestfrom around the world and I know
, as I always say, that businessowners are the only ones that
can say their name and theircompany name like they want to.
So I will let you introduceyourself, your company, where
you're from.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you so much, Michael.
My name is Wayne Mullins.
I am the founder and I guessyou could say CEO of this
company called Ugly MugMarketing.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Cool.
Wow, that sounds not too pretty, but it looks pretty behind you
.
For those that aren't watching,it's a beautiful background of
colors and things, so I'manxious to hear what that is.
What do you think we're goingto help our listeners with today
?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I think number one just getting unstuck.
I think you know I have beenout of school, out of university
if you will, for man.
Time flies 23, 24 years andduring that entire time I've
only worked as an employee forsomeone else, for a total of
about two and a half years.
So the rest of that time I'vebeen my own boss, I've been
(01:03):
self-employed and I've hadsuccesses and I've had failures
in this thing we callentrepreneurship, and lots of
scrapes and bruises and lots ofsuccesses as well.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Wow, this, this will be fun.
So let's introduce our show andthen we'll be right back.
Welcome to Small BusinessPivots, a podcast designed for
small business owners.
I'm your host, michael Morrison.
A podcast designed for smallbusiness owners.
I'm your host, michael Morrison, a small business coach and
founder of BOSS, where we makebusiness ownership simplified
for success, so that you can owna business that runs without
(01:35):
you.
To learn more, go tobusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
All right, welcome back toSmall Business Pivots.
My friend, where would you liketo start today?
You said you've been beaten upand bruised and got your fair
share of bloody noses.
Anything you'd like to startwith before we get into the meat
of getting unstuck?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
important that we learn to have patience with
ourselves.
I think maybe it's just here inthe Western world that we are
very impatient.
We want results yesterday, andthe person that we beat up the
(02:15):
most, the person that we getfrustrated with the most, is
often the person who looks backat us in the mirror every day.
So you know, for me in thoseearly days I wish someone had
told me just to be patient.
You know that doesn't mean youdon't work hard, that doesn't
mean you don't have bigambitions, big goals.
But to be patient, and theother part of that is to don't
(02:37):
try to reinvent the wheel.
Right, don't try to reinventthe wheel.
There's some fundamental thingsin business that for years I
spent trying to prove that I wassmarter than those things,
trying to prove that I knewbetter.
And those years were some ofthe most painful, not just in
terms of business and slowgrowth, but because of that they
(03:00):
became very painful in mypersonal and family life as well
.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's interesting.
You say that because I canrelate, and I'm sure our
listeners can too, to beingimpatient.
So, following on that, I dohave a question what are your
thoughts on when do you run outof patience?
So, in other words, when do you?
(03:26):
You know, a lot of times theysay, hey, you got to let this
kind of play itself out to seethe results.
Do you have a time period, oris it just a gut feeling?
How do you handle that Likewhen is enough enough?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, I don't know that there's one a one size fits
all answer to that, and thereason is, as I've grown a few
different businesses over those20 plus years, that has been
different in every business thatI've been a part of.
In other words, the length oftime that I needed to be patient
, that I needed to wait it out,that I needed to hang in there a
bit longer, was different inevery single one of those, I
(03:57):
think.
At the end of the day, though, Ithink the absolute best place
to start isn't necessarily withyour vision or with your grand
idea for a product or service,but rather it's with an
understanding of the person orthe people that you feel called
to serve, whether that's througha product or through a service.
(04:18):
I think so often in those earlydays, we get so wrapped up in
our vision that we lose sight ofthe very people who are going
to give us the money to survive.
We get so wrapped up in gettingall the things right, doing all
the million different things wehave to do as entrepreneurs,
and the thing that we neglectfirst are the customers.
(04:41):
Now, I don't mean we don'tfulfill the orders, I just
simply mean we lose sight oftheir pain points, their
frustrations, their goals, theirdesires, and the more we're in
tune with that, the more clearthat path to whether you call it
freedom, prosperity, success,whatever you want to call it.
The more clear we are with theclients or customers we serve,
(05:03):
the clearer that other pathcomes to us.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Great advice.
Speaking of paths you mentioned, you barely started adulting
before you started yourentrepreneur journey.
So what kind of upbringing didyou have that kind of got you in
that entrepreneurial spirit?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I would say, michael, that for me, you in
that entrepreneurial spirit.
Yeah, I would say, michael,that for me, I just grew up
working.
I grew up working from the ageof probably 11 or 12 years old.
My parents didn't have a lot ofmoney and so that meant that if
I wanted something I had toearn money and go buy it myself.
And so, 11 or 12 years old, afriend of mine, he'd come over
to play.
We found this old scrap pieceof plywood and we literally
(05:45):
spray painted on their yard work, put my parents' phone number
on there and, lo and behold,within a few days we got a call
and that began a lawn businessthat I would basically manage
and run all the way throughcollege to earn extra money.
I also worked in construction,did lots of different jobs along
the way, so I was able, andfortunate, because of all that
(06:08):
work, to see kind of the insidesof a lot of different
businesses, and I think that'sreally what sparked my curiosity
about entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So would you say you had the right mindset to start?
Because I know a lot of peopleI talk to.
They're like, oh, I wish Icould start my business, or I
just don't know if I'm qualified.
So what, at such a young age,did you say I'm qualified to do
this?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I don't know that there's I'm qualified to do this
.
I don't know if that thoughtran through my head.
What really ran through my headwas this that there are people
with a lot of problems and thereare people with problems that
they're willing to pay otherpeople money to solve those
problems for them.
And cutting grass was was thatso?
The first quote unquote lawncustomer I had was actually an
(06:58):
elderly person that lived acrossthe street.
Her husband had passed away andshe couldn't cut the grass.
She didn't know how to use thelawn equipment, and so it was
like here's this person with aproblem and, honestly, what
began as just charity, right Togo help, and she would then give
me money for helping.
I didn't ask her for money, shegave me money.
(07:18):
That was kind of the the lightbulb, I guess, is like huh, this
is interesting.
People have problems.
They want those problems fixed.
They're willing to give moneywhich I won't in exchange for
those.
What problems can I solve?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, so what was your first business venture,
other than the lawnmowing, onceyou got out of college?
And what did you go to collegefor, by the way?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So I do have a degree in business with a
specialization in marketing.
Okay, so that was my degree.
So during college I got out ofschool and during the midst of
college, at some point I wasintroduced to this gentleman of
the name Zig Ziglar.
Oh wow, Never heard of him.
Yeah, If someone listening orwatching has not heard of him,
(08:00):
go Google him, look him up onYouTube, follow him.
Amazing guy.
So he turned me onto theprofession of selling.
So when I left school I wentinto selling.
That's what I did.
Um, I spent about two and a halfyears in sales and then I had
this dangerous idea.
So I had a corporate sales jobat that point, Monday through
(08:20):
Friday, eight to five.
Um call, I was doingadvertising sales, all the
benefits, making pretty goodmoney for that age.
And then I had this dangerousidea of you know what?
What if I went and didsomething for myself?
Like, would my income be capped?
Would it be based on how longI'm here?
Would it be based on thisperson's been here before me?
(08:41):
So they're up next forpromotion, Right?
So I want to escape all that.
It wasn't that I hated my job,it wasn't that I hated my boss,
it was more so for me, like Iwanted, the freedom to control
my potential.
That's what I wanted, and so Iactually started back at Lawn
and Landscape Company, left thatjob.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Left that job and, much to the dismay of my parents
, left that great corporatesales job and went back and sat
on a lawnmower.
There is no qualification,there is no patch, there is no
license.
It's just do it.
If you want to own a business,learn how to start one and just
start it.
And what I find amazing, almostevery business owner that I've
(09:34):
talked to, it was for thefreedom.
And for those that don't own abusiness, they think it's we
probably started it for themoney.
And I've yet to talk to abusiness owner that it was truly
for the money, it was a passion, it was for freedom, it was a
lifestyle, but it wasn't trulyjust for the money.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I do agree, and what I've discovered is that there's
actually two different types offreedom.
I discovered this because, youknow again, I started that lawn
and landscape company and then Isold that company and that
turned into consulting, whichthen turned into the agency I
have now.
But what I discovered inhindsight, looking back and
(10:17):
working with so manyentrepreneurs over the years, is
this that there's two differentfreedoms, and one of those is
freedom from and the other oneis freedom to.
Now the distinction is very,very subtle.
Oftentimes people end up asquote-unquote entrepreneurs
because they want freedom from.
I want freedom from my bosstelling me when to show up.
(10:37):
I want freedom from all thegossip, all the politics in the
office.
I want freedom from the job Ihate.
That is the wrong reason to godown the entrepreneurial path.
The other freedom is freedom to.
I want freedom to be able tocontrol my schedule.
I want freedom to.
(10:58):
So it's very, very subtle andit's a very fine line, but you
have to look inside andintrinsically determine am I
just trying to escape fromsomething?
Because if all I'm doing istrying to escape from that thing
, when you start your businessyou just thought your boss was
bad before.
Your boss is about to get a lotworse.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Amen yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And so that.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That, to me, is that subtle distinction, that fine
line right there that I think isso important for people who are
in that phase of considering toexplore.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Well said, Well said.
So you started your agency andit's not ugly by any means
looking at the background youhave.
So tell us a little bit how yougot into that.
We mentioned, or we've talkedyou know, before that you were
kind of in that stuck stage fora while.
So let's start there, becausethat's where most of our
listeners are.
(11:52):
And how did you transition intogetting to the next level?
Because when you get stuckyou're like literally stuck in a
business.
I know I've been a businessowner since the nineties.
What did you do to kind of getpast that hump?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, great question, and what I would say is this
that I think all entrepreneursget stuck and they get stuck at
various points and stages and Ican come back to explaining how
that plays out, but for me, sowhenever I sold the lawn and
landscape company for context, Igrew that company over the
course of three years.
We were the largest lawn andlandscape company in our entire
(12:29):
region.
I put the company up for salein December, worst time of the
year to ever sell a company inthat space right, because grass
isn't growing.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
There's no business.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, revenue's down from what it is in the summer.
I listed it with a nationalbusiness broker.
Revenues down from what it isin the summer.
I listed it with a nationalbusiness broker and, much to my
surprise, within a couple ofweeks I had three different
offers for the company and sosold that company.
But an interesting thinghappened, michael, during the
course of growing that companyso rapidly, I started having
business owners reach out to meand say, hey look, I don't
(13:01):
really know you, but I've seen,you know you've gone from one or
two trucks to now you've gotmultiple crews, you're
maintaining the biggest accountsright, the biggest properties
around.
What do you do, like, how areyou growing?
And so that turned into theseconsulting jobs, which then,
after I sold the other, the Lawnand Landscape company, I didn't
know what I was going to do,but these consulting jobs kind
(13:27):
of piqued this idea, thiscuriosity what if I did this
full-time?
What if I turned this into anagency?
So for the first, I wish Icould tell you it was shorter
than this, but for the firstseven years of this business.
So we're going on 16 years now.
For the first seven years it wasan immense struggle, like the
first business, the firstbusiness I grew the Lawn, the
lawn landscape.
Success came easy.
I mean literally from startupto multiple crews, all the best
(13:51):
accounts in town in a three-yearperiod, and then having
multiple people compete to buythe company came very easily.
When I started this, thingsdidn't happen that way.
I was very stubborn, I was veryset in my ways and I had lost
sight of that.
One thing I mentioned earlier Iwas more focused on what I
wanted than what the customerswanted, and so, to briefly kind
(14:15):
of peel back the layers here,what had enabled me to grow the
lawn care business so quicklywas a very specific type of
marketing.
Business so quickly was a veryspecific type of marketing.
So whenever I started thisbusiness the agency I wanted
other people to use this sameapproach because I knew it
worked.
I was, you know, I believed itwould work.
I was willing to stand for thatit would work, but it was so
(14:41):
different from what they wereused to they didn't want it, and
so I would spend meeting aftermeeting trying to convince all
these other business owners totry this method, and they would
say, no, I don't want to do that, but can you help with this or
can you help with that?
And I'm like, no, I'm not goingto do that stuff right.
I know this stuff works sellthem what they want and then
figure out how to give them whatthey actually need.
So for me, that took years ofgetting over my own ego and my
(15:14):
own stubbornness and listeningto what they had to say.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That's great advice.
Well, let's talk about youragency, because it's marketing,
and I know a lot of smallbusiness owners struggle with
marketing.
Where do you want to start?
Because that's a big, big partof business.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, what I would say is this that, first of all,
most people don't evenunderstand what marketing is, so
that is the best place to start.
Most entrepreneurs usemarketing and advertising as
interchangeable words, andthey're not.
They're two different things.
Advertising is merely one pieceof marketing.
(15:51):
Marketing encompasseseverything, and when I say
everything, let me explain whatI mean by everything.
The way you answer your phoneis marketing.
The way you respond or don'trespond to someone's email is
marketing.
The smudges on your front doorat your business those are
marketing something.
(16:12):
They're communicating a messageto someone.
The fact that your restroomsare clean or dirty is marketing.
All of these things aremarketing.
And yet, as entrepreneurs, weget so hung up on.
So I challenge people look, ifthings aren't going well, let's
(16:32):
first look at all these otherpieces and components.
Several years back, we had thisvery, very popular restaurant.
I say popular.
We're in a small community, sothere's not that many local
restaurants, but it's a localrestaurant with a long history
here.
They came to us and they weregetting ready to launch an
entire new restaurant newbuilding, new branding, new
image.
And they came to us and saidlook, we want y'all to be our
(16:54):
partner, we want y'all to handleall the rollout, all the
publicity, all the stuff.
And so we go back and we startdigging in before we commit to
working with them.
And we look online and backthen Yelp was the number one
place for people to leavereviews and their reviews were
3.2 stars out of five.
And so we go back to them andwe say, look, we would be
(17:16):
honored to be your partner andto roll this out and get all the
shiny stuff and get all theattention.
But it looks like you haveanother issue going on.
You think you're here, youthink you're five stars, but the
market is telling us you're 3.2.
So we can argue all day longthat these few people and there
(17:37):
was way more than a few arecrazy, but the numbers would
indicate, on average, this iswhere you sit, this is where you
stand.
So we can talk about marketingall day long, but part of your
marketing is your service, yourfood, the quality, the speed,
all that stuff.
So we have to start there.
So for those listening, what Iwould say is, yes, advertising
(17:58):
is important, yes, getting yourmessage out there is important.
But if you're getting yourmessage out there and you're not
returning phone calls, you'renot responding to emails in a
timely manner.
You're not filling orders in atimely manner.
All the marketing in the worldisn't going to save you.
All the advertising is notgoing to save you.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
No one's ever said it like that Appreciate that.
That was a great breakdown anda differentiation.
So where would a small businessowner?
You're listening to SmallBusiness Pivots.
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(18:36):
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Your support keeps us going.
Now let's get back to ourincredible guest.
(19:20):
So where would a small businessowner start?
Because there's a lot of noiseout there, you should be doing
this and you should be doingthat, and take yourself back to
the early days when you werestuck trying to make a name for
yourself.
What are some things that theyshould be focused on now,
because it's all important, but,as a business owner, we only
(19:41):
have so much time.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, 100%.
So the very first thing tofocus on is back to your
customer.
Who are they?
Where do they live, where dothey work, where do they show up
?
Where are they getting theirinformation from?
Where do they work, where dothey show up, where are they
getting their information from?
And I can dive into all this indetail.
You can go Google searchcustomer avatar or customer
avatar worksheet, or reach outto us.
We'll send you one.
(20:03):
It's completely free, like go,complete one of these things,
because what we want to do is wewant to get a crystal clear
picture of who that person is.
You know, let's just say,michael, that you and I we're
business people here.
We're like you know what.
We're going to go into thegrass-fed, grass-finished
business.
Right, we're going to open aranch.
We're going to sell grass-fed,grass-finished beef.
(20:25):
That's what we're going to do.
What good would it do for us toadvertise to vegetarians or to
vegans?
And yet business owner afterbusiness owner spend their time,
their energy and theirresources and their money, which
they don't have a lot ofmarketing to the wrong people.
(20:47):
We have to get crystal clearabout who those people are and
then, once we know who they are,we know where they consume
their content.
Is it Facebook?
Is it TikTok?
Is it Instagram?
Is it YouTube?
Is it none of those?
And then we show up where theyare.
Now, when we show up where theyare, the next piece of that is
(21:07):
we have to speak in a way thatmeans something to them.
And one super quick thing hereis when we build out a customer
avatar, which is all of thislike analytical type of
information.
It gets us thinking verylogically about our customers.
The problem with that is mostpeople the vast majority do not
(21:27):
buy based on logic.
They buy based on emotion, andwhen we approach our marketing
and advertising from a logicalperspective, we are not
communicating in the way they'rebuying.
So the simple exercise that weteach people to do is this.
We call it the magic journalpage exercise.
So what you're going to do isyou're going to pull out a sheet
of paper and you are going towrite a journal page as if you
(21:50):
are your customer.
You want to talk in terms ofwhat it feels like to wake up in
the morning and have a sick kid.
You want to talk about how yourboss is wondering when the
report's going to come in, butyou've got a sick kid over here.
You want to talk about howthere's stress around money
right now because the economy'sbad or whatever the things may
be.
You want to pour yourself intotheir mindset, write a page as
(22:15):
if you were them and then, ifyou turn around and go write
your ad, write your Facebookpost.
It is night and day differentthan the way you would write it
just based on analytical facts.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's a good point.
We worked with an attorney nottoo long ago and they were.
Of course they had all thefull-page ads and the prominent
magazines and all that goodstuff, but when we started
working with them, their actualtarget audience were uneducated
people.
(22:49):
Uneducated people, in otherwords, teenagers, young adults
that maybe had a criminal record.
Those are two different lovelanguages, if you want to call
it that.
I mean one's kind of aprominent, well-spoken drives,
cadillacs and rolls.
You know that.
And then the other one isbarely making payroll, barely
(23:11):
making ends meet, and don't havethe same vocabulary that the
others do, and so you're.
You're right on point there.
What would be the next thingafter we get our avatar,
complete, our ideal customer?
What would you suggest thatthey look into with the limited
time that they have andresources?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Absolutely.
I think the the biggesttakeaway if I could give just
one, if I had to summarize it toone takeaway is this when it
comes to your advertising ormarketing, you can't think
better.
You have to think different.
So I see this time and timeagain our best salesperson for
our entire company is thecompetitor of the person who
(23:52):
reaches out to us.
So what happens is Sally acrossthe street, who owns the local
coffee shop across the street.
Her competitor three blocksover just gets a new website.
Sally sees it and says, wow,their website's amazing.
Look at ours.
Ours looks like garbage.
Let me call Ugly Mug across thestreet and say, hey, we need a
new website.
(24:13):
You cannot out better yourcompetition.
You can out different yourcompetition.
So, when it comes to yourmarketing and the pieces you're
creating, if you want the bestcase study on what to do, go
look at like if you're doingfacebook.
Go look at what they're doingon facebook and then do
something that's completelydifferent than what your
(24:34):
competitors are doing.
Because in this world and youmentioned it in this world
there's so much noise, there'sso much chaos.
The only hope we have is tostand out.
That is the only hope you haveas an entrepreneur, you cannot
blend in.
You must stand out with yourmessaging.
There's too many other messagesthat are too similar and you
(24:56):
will spend too much time tryingto convince them why you are
better than the competitors.
But when you communicate howyou are different, it cuts
through the noise.
They know why they should handyou the money instead of your
competitor.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Going back to your reference of patience, what is
kind of a typical timeline of sowe do some trial and error,
some posts, some things likethat, trying to connect with our
prospects?
What's kind of a timelinebefore we go yeah, that's not
working, we need to shift somethings.
Is there anything kind of bestpractices in marketing that we
kind of a timeline before we goyeah, that's not working, we
need to shift some things.
Is there anything kind of bestpractices in marketing that we
kind of give it at least thisamount of time?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
The answer is it's going to vary based on the
industry.
However, what I can tell youacross the board and over the
last 16 years I've worked withthousands of entrepreneurs At
any point in time we haveroughly 120 active clients that
we're working with in lots ofdifferent dozens of different
industries.
At one point, and what I cantell you is this is that most
(26:00):
entrepreneurs are not patientenough with the ads, with the
things they're doing right.
So just when things couldpossibly start working, we're
tired of seeing it.
That's been up for three weeks.
We're like can't we dosomething new?
Can't we do something different?
Like it's time to change it.
We've got to learn to be morepatient with those things.
(26:22):
The two other things I'llmention number one and again,
this varies greatly, but as ageneral rule, what you're doing
today marketing advertising wiseyou probably will not see the
benefits of that for six weeks.
That's again a good general.
So the work I'm doing today I'mnot doing the work today for a
(26:43):
client today I'm doing the worktoday for a client six, six
weeks from now.
That's the mindset we have tohave.
We have to be thinking this isfor six weeks in the future.
So if I'm not doing anythingtoday.
My business still may be goodtoday because of what I did six
weeks ago, but if I stop doingit today, six weeks in the
future, it's going to startdrying up.
(27:05):
Now again, that timeframevaries a little bit based on the
industry.
The other thing I would say isthis that all of marketing boils
down to these two things humanpsychology and math.
That is it.
So human psychology makes sense, right, we have to persuade
people with our marketingmessages to pull out their
wallet and hand us money.
And then math, because our jobis to hold every dollar
(27:29):
accountable.
We can't just put some moneyout there and hope and pray it
works.
We can put the money out there,hope and pray it works, but we
better be measuring it.
So we have a benchmark thatsays okay, I hoped and prayed
last time it would work.
It produced this return.
This time I've got to beat thatreturn right.
So math comes into that.
(27:50):
But when we look at humanpsychology, there are really
just three core ingredients toget people to go from learning
about us to actually pulling outtheir wallet and handing us
money.
Number one they have to knowabout us super, super obvious.
Number two they have to like us.
Going back to what I mentionedearlier, we're never going to
convince a vegan or vegetarianto like our cattle business,
(28:11):
right, our grass fed beef.
So don't waste our time.
So know about us, like us.
And the one that creates themost amount of time is the third
ingredient, which is trust.
They have to trust that ourproduct and service is gonna be
of more value to them than themoney they part with.
So the bigger the ticket item,the more trust has to be there.
(28:36):
The smaller the ticket item,the less trust has to be there
in that equation.
So use that just as a framework, based on the industry that
you're in, the type of peopleyou're serving and the cost of
your product or service to kindof give you some parameters on
how long you should expectthings to take in the marketing
cycle.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
To piggyback on that.
I've used an analogy lately.
We all know who Amazon is,right, we see their trucks,
their advertisements everywhere.
And to your point, when I askpeople, can you tell me where
the arrows are on their logo?
Most people can't, and youdon't even know what it really
is.
So your little piece of the piein the world, no one knows you
(29:25):
because most people don't knowthat the little loop goes from A
to Z under the letters, andthat's just kind of an analogy.
That kind of works, along withwhat you're saying is you might
be sick of it, but nobody elsehas even seen it.
You know or recognize it, andso that's a great point.
You went from the smallbusiness to the larger business.
(29:48):
The show is all about smallbusiness pivots Any pivots along
the way that you made that youcan think of 100%.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Every day, every day, is a pivot.
What I've discovered over theyears, michael is Every day,
every day is a pivot.
What I've discovered over theyears, michael is again, this
isn't scientific, it's just frommy real world experience,
literally working with hundredsand hundreds probably several
thousand entrepreneurs at thispoint.
But I believe that there arefive core stages that all
businesses go through, and thesestages don't necessarily have
(30:18):
to do with money.
They have more to do with theentrepreneur's mindset during
those stages.
So, if you don't mind, I'lljust briefly.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Let's hear it Mindset's big, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
So stage number one is what I would call the me
stage, and this is the stagewhere you're learning to trust
yourself as an entrepreneur.
It's where you're learning todo the basic things of running a
business right.
It's all about this self-trust.
And that then leads into thenext phase, that I would call
the we stage.
This is where you're learningto actually trust other people
(30:50):
to do pieces and components ofwhat you know to do.
And then the third phase iswhat I would call the they phase
, and this is all about systemsand processes.
So this is when we're learningto actually implement and roll
out systems and processes thatwe trust.
We trust these things, wevetted these things and we're
(31:11):
learning to trust those things,not just from me as the leader,
but the team as well.
And then the next one is I callthis the machine.
This is the most complicatedone, I think, but this is where
we're actually getting thepeople in the systems and
processes to work in harmonyVery, very difficult to do
(31:33):
without a lot of money or a lotof time, one of those two things
.
I'm not saying it can't be done,but it's very, very it's
challenging and part of thereason is by default.
Most entrepreneurs do not likesystems and processes.
What do you mean?
I have to clock in, like Icreated this company.
What are you talking about?
I'm not clocking in.
(31:53):
What do you mean?
I've got to request my PTO,like I'm the founder of the
company.
I'm not doing that.
The problem with that is thatthat attitude undermines the
entire culture, because we allknow this If you're a parent,
you know this.
More is called than is taught.
(32:14):
They're picking up on the waywe behave.
We can say all day long thatthese systems and processes
matter, that clocking in matters, that requesting PTO matters,
that following the checklistmatters, but if we're not doing
it, they're never going to do it.
So, anyway, that was the fourthone, the most challenging one in
my opinion.
And then the fifth one is whatI would call creative
destruction, and what I can tellyou is, when I started this
(32:38):
company, I had a very specifictype of marketing that I only
wanted to do.
It took me years to finally sayyou know what?
I've got to pivot from mystupid idea that I know works,
but I've got to start actuallyselling people what they want.
So I had to pivot there.
Another one was I pivoted andthen I kept having people ask me
(32:59):
hey, can you help us with thewebsite?
Well, no, we don't.
I don't ask me, hey, can youhelp us with a website?
Well, no, we don't.
I don't know anything aboutwebsites.
But you know what I said.
You know we're going to figureout websites.
Last year our web division wasour biggest division within our
company, all because of a pivot.
All because I said you knowwhat.
The next time somebody says canyou help, I'm going to say yes
(33:19):
and figure it out.
We pivoted again, you know, withsocial media, another huge
pivot for us.
So there's been lots of pivots,but I'll go back to this one
thing.
The absolute biggest pivot inmy entire journey happened
probably seven or so years ago,and that is when I looked at the
person in the mirror everysingle morning and I asked
(33:40):
myself which do you love more,wayne?
Do you love the excuses and theexceptions you're making or do
you love the success that you'reafter?
Because I had, for seven years,had all the reasons why my
employees didn't want to workhard.
My employees showed up late,the vendors didn't send the
stuff they were supposed to send, the customers were ungrateful.
(34:01):
I had this long list of stuff.
Everybody else was to blame butme, and that's when I realized
that our businesses are nothingmore than reflection of our own
mindsets.
That is what they are.
Our businesses reflect back ourown mindsets and our own
ability to lead ourselves.
(34:22):
That pivot for me has been themost difficult, but the most
rewarding and the mostbeneficial.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, it's real eye-opening when business owners
come to the realization is thebusiness they have today,
whether there's challenges ornot, they either created or they
allowed Because they own it.
So exactly what you're sayingTell us about your business so
that listeners know who to call.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Super quick version.
So the name of the company isUgly Mug Marketing.
That name actually comes fromthis quote by the name of a
gentleman by the name of DavidOgilvie.
David Ogilvie came over to theUS, I believe, in the late
fifties.
He started an advertisingagency on Madison Avenue called
Ogilvie and his partner, Mather.
Ogilvie and Mather became thelargest ad agency in the entire
(35:13):
world.
They're still in the top 10.
David Ogilvie had this amazingquote, which was I would rather
you show me an ad that's uglyand effective over one that's
beautiful but isn't.
And so that is our North star.
We, we operate every single dayin an industry that is so
enamored by winning awards mostcreative design, best video and
(35:35):
so it's very easy to do thingsfor the sake of creativity.
Our goal is to get results forour clients, and we are so
confident in our ability to dothat that we don't even require
contracts.
We simply tell our new clients.
We say look, give us two months.
If, at the end of two months,you are not thrilled with the
(35:57):
direction we're going, If you'renot thrilled with the results
that we're starting to producefor you, we don't want your
money.
We want you to go find somebodywho can get results for you.
We're not going to lock youinto this long-term thing just
because we can.
So we've built our reputationon getting results, and the
beauty of that is two things.
Number one, it's wonderful forour clients.
(36:18):
But number two, it forces us tonot hold on to what once was
true in the marketing world, butto always be discovering what's
true today, what is workingtoday.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
If somebody wants to follow you, find you, where
would they do that?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Simplest place, our website, that is
uglymugmarketingcom.
The other place, just where Ikind of share more leadership
and personal stuff, would be onInstagram, and that's at fire
yourself oh.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I love it.
Are you on LinkedIn, anywhereelse where they can?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
link LinkedIn the same place, company name there
as well.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Fantastic.
Well, I always end with onelast question, that is, if you
were in a room of businessowners of all different sizes
industries, what is some adviceyou could give them that would
be applicable to everybody?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Love the question.
The answer would be thisConsistency creates miracles.
We, as entrepreneurs, often byour wiring, hate consistency.
We love chasing the next newidea.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, it's all of us.
We love the next big thing.
The problem is that mentalitycan become very detrimental to
building a culture specifically,a culture that is
self-accountable and highperformance.
Specifically, a culture that isself-accountable and high
performance.
When we are constantly jumpingfrom thing to thing, when we
(37:46):
aren't willing to develop ourown disciplines and our own
consistencies, we end up with acompany that is a reflection of
us, which means everyone'sjumping from thing to thing all
the time and we get no traction.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Wow.
So I learned something today,also listeners.
Well, Wayne, you've been awealth of knowledge and a
blessing to many.
Appreciate your time andinsights and wish you the best
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Thank you for listening to Small Business
Pivots.
Please don't forget tosubscribe and share this podcast
.
If your business is stuck, youneed help creating a business
that can run without you, or youneed a fast business loan or
line of credit, go to ourwebsite
businessownershipsimplifiedcomand schedule a free consultation
(38:33):
to learn why small businesssuccess starts with boss.
If you want to talk anythingsmall business related, email me
at michael atmichaeldmorrisoncom.
We'll see you next time onSmall Business Pivots.
All right, welcome to another Small Business, pivots.
We have another special guestfrom around the world and I know
, as I always say, that businessowners are the only ones that
can say their name and theircompany name like they want to.
So I will let you introduceyourself, your company, where
you're from.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you so much, Michael.
My name is Wayne Mullins.
I am the founder and I guessyou could say CEO of this
company called Ugly MugMarketing.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Cool.
Wow, that sounds not too pretty, but it looks pretty behind you
.
For those that aren't watching,it's a beautiful background of
colors and things, so I'manxious to hear what that is.
What do you think we're goingto help our listeners with today
?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I think number one just getting unstuck.
I think you know I have beenout of school, out of university
if you will, for man.
Time flies 23, 24 years andduring that entire time I've
only worked as an employee forsomeone else, for a total of
about two and a half years.
So the rest of that time I'vebeen my own boss, I've been
(01:03):
self-employed and I've hadsuccesses and I've had failures
in this thing we callentrepreneurship, and lots of
scrapes and bruises and lots ofsuccesses as well.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Wow, this, this will be fun.
So let's introduce our show andthen we'll be right back.
Welcome to Small BusinessPivots, a podcast designed for
small business owners.
I'm your host, michael Morrison.
A podcast designed for smallbusiness owners.
I'm your host, michael Morrison, a small business coach and
founder of BOSS, where we makebusiness ownership simplified
for success, so that you can owna business that runs without
(01:35):
you.
To learn more, go tobusinessownershipsimplifiedcom.
All right, welcome back toSmall Business Pivots.
My friend, where would you liketo start today?
You said you've been beaten upand bruised and got your fair
share of bloody noses.
Anything you'd like to startwith before we get into the meat
of getting unstuck?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
important that we learn to have patience with
ourselves.
I think maybe it's just here inthe Western world that we are
very impatient.
We want results yesterday, andthe person that we beat up the
(02:15):
most, the person that we getfrustrated with the most, is
often the person who looks backat us in the mirror every day.
So you know, for me in thoseearly days I wish someone had
told me just to be patient.
You know that doesn't mean youdon't work hard, that doesn't
mean you don't have bigambitions, big goals.
But to be patient, and theother part of that is to don't
(02:37):
try to reinvent the wheel.
Right, don't try to reinventthe wheel.
There's some fundamental thingsin business that for years I
spent trying to prove that I wassmarter than those things,
trying to prove that I knewbetter.
And those years were some ofthe most painful, not just in
terms of business and slowgrowth, but because of that they
(03:00):
became very painful in mypersonal and family life as well
.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's interesting.
You say that because I canrelate, and I'm sure our
listeners can too, to beingimpatient.
So, following on that, I dohave a question what are your
thoughts on when do you run outof patience?
So, in other words, when do you?
(03:26):
You know, a lot of times theysay, hey, you got to let this
kind of play itself out to seethe results.
Do you have a time period, oris it just a gut feeling?
How do you handle that Likewhen is enough enough?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, I don't know that there's one a one size fits
all answer to that, and thereason is, as I've grown a few
different businesses over those20 plus years, that has been
different in every business thatI've been a part of.
In other words, the length oftime that I needed to be patient
, that I needed to wait it out,that I needed to hang in there a
bit longer, was different inevery single one of those, I
(03:57):
think.
At the end of the day, though, Ithink the absolute best place
to start isn't necessarily withyour vision or with your grand
idea for a product or service,but rather it's with an
understanding of the person orthe people that you feel called
to serve, whether that's througha product or through a service.
(04:18):
I think so often in those earlydays, we get so wrapped up in
our vision that we lose sight ofthe very people who are going
to give us the money to survive.
We get so wrapped up in gettingall the things right, doing all
the million different things wehave to do as entrepreneurs,
and the thing that we neglectfirst are the customers.
(04:41):
Now, I don't mean we don'tfulfill the orders, I just
simply mean we lose sight oftheir pain points, their
frustrations, their goals, theirdesires, and the more we're in
tune with that, the more clearthat path to whether you call it
freedom, prosperity, success,whatever you want to call it.
The more clear we are with theclients or customers we serve,
(05:03):
the clearer that other pathcomes to us.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Great advice.
Speaking of paths you mentioned, you barely started adulting
before you started yourentrepreneur journey.
So what kind of upbringing didyou have that kind of got you in
that entrepreneurial spirit?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I would say, michael, that for me, you in
that entrepreneurial spirit.
Yeah, I would say, michael,that for me, I just grew up
working.
I grew up working from the ageof probably 11 or 12 years old.
My parents didn't have a lot ofmoney and so that meant that if
I wanted something I had toearn money and go buy it myself.
And so, 11 or 12 years old, afriend of mine, he'd come over
to play.
We found this old scrap pieceof plywood and we literally
(05:45):
spray painted on their yard work, put my parents' phone number
on there and, lo and behold,within a few days we got a call
and that began a lawn businessthat I would basically manage
and run all the way throughcollege to earn extra money.
I also worked in construction,did lots of different jobs along
the way, so I was able, andfortunate, because of all that
(06:08):
work, to see kind of the insidesof a lot of different
businesses, and I think that'sreally what sparked my curiosity
about entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So would you say you had the right mindset to start?
Because I know a lot of peopleI talk to.
They're like, oh, I wish Icould start my business, or I
just don't know if I'm qualified.
So what, at such a young age,did you say I'm qualified to do
this?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I don't know that there's I'm qualified to do this
.
I don't know if that thoughtran through my head.
What really ran through my headwas this that there are people
with a lot of problems and thereare people with problems that
they're willing to pay otherpeople money to solve those
problems for them.
And cutting grass was was thatso?
The first quote unquote lawncustomer I had was actually an
(06:58):
elderly person that lived acrossthe street.
Her husband had passed away andshe couldn't cut the grass.
She didn't know how to use thelawn equipment, and so it was
like here's this person with aproblem and, honestly, what
began as just charity, right Togo help, and she would then give
me money for helping.
I didn't ask her for money, shegave me money.
(07:18):
That was kind of the the lightbulb, I guess, is like huh, this
is interesting.
People have problems.
They want those problems fixed.
They're willing to give moneywhich I won't in exchange for
those.
What problems can I solve?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, so what was your first business venture,
other than the lawnmowing, onceyou got out of college?
And what did you go to collegefor, by the way?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So I do have a degree in business with a
specialization in marketing.
Okay, so that was my degree.
So during college I got out ofschool and during the midst of
college, at some point I wasintroduced to this gentleman of
the name Zig Ziglar.
Oh wow, Never heard of him.
Yeah, If someone listening orwatching has not heard of him,
(08:00):
go Google him, look him up onYouTube, follow him.
Amazing guy.
So he turned me onto theprofession of selling.
So when I left school I wentinto selling.
That's what I did.
Um, I spent about two and a halfyears in sales and then I had
this dangerous idea.
So I had a corporate sales jobat that point, Monday through
(08:20):
Friday, eight to five.
Um call, I was doingadvertising sales, all the
benefits, making pretty goodmoney for that age.
And then I had this dangerousidea of you know what?
What if I went and didsomething for myself?
Like, would my income be capped?
Would it be based on how longI'm here?
Would it be based on thisperson's been here before me?
(08:41):
So they're up next forpromotion, Right?
So I want to escape all that.
It wasn't that I hated my job,it wasn't that I hated my boss,
it was more so for me, like Iwanted, the freedom to control
my potential.
That's what I wanted, and so Iactually started back at Lawn
and Landscape Company, left thatjob.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Left that job and, much to the dismay of my parents
, left that great corporatesales job and went back and sat
on a lawnmower.
There is no qualification,there is no patch, there is no
license.
It's just do it.
If you want to own a business,learn how to start one and just
start it.
And what I find amazing, almostevery business owner that I've
(09:34):
talked to, it was for thefreedom.
And for those that don't own abusiness, they think it's we
probably started it for themoney.
And I've yet to talk to abusiness owner that it was truly
for the money, it was a passion, it was for freedom, it was a
lifestyle, but it wasn't trulyjust for the money.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I do agree, and what I've discovered is that there's
actually two different types offreedom.
I discovered this because, youknow again, I started that lawn
and landscape company and then Isold that company and that
turned into consulting, whichthen turned into the agency I
have now.
But what I discovered inhindsight, looking back and
(10:17):
working with so manyentrepreneurs over the years, is
this that there's two differentfreedoms, and one of those is
freedom from and the other oneis freedom to.
Now the distinction is very,very subtle.
Oftentimes people end up asquote-unquote entrepreneurs
because they want freedom from.
I want freedom from my bosstelling me when to show up.
(10:37):
I want freedom from all thegossip, all the politics in the
office.
I want freedom from the job Ihate.
That is the wrong reason to godown the entrepreneurial path.
The other freedom is freedom to.
I want freedom to be able tocontrol my schedule.
I want freedom to.
(10:58):
So it's very, very subtle andit's a very fine line, but you
have to look inside andintrinsically determine am I
just trying to escape fromsomething?
Because if all I'm doing istrying to escape from that thing
, when you start your businessyou just thought your boss was
bad before.
Your boss is about to get a lotworse.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Amen yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
And so that.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That, to me, is that subtle distinction, that fine
line right there that I think isso important for people who are
in that phase of considering toexplore.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Well said, Well said.
So you started your agency andit's not ugly by any means
looking at the background youhave.
So tell us a little bit how yougot into that.
We mentioned, or we've talkedyou know, before that you were
kind of in that stuck stage fora while.
So let's start there, becausethat's where most of our
listeners are.
(11:52):
And how did you transition intogetting to the next level?
Because when you get stuckyou're like literally stuck in a
business.
I know I've been a businessowner since the nineties.
What did you do to kind of getpast that hump?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, great question, and what I would say is this
that I think all entrepreneursget stuck and they get stuck at
various points and stages and Ican come back to explaining how
that plays out, but for me, sowhenever I sold the lawn and
landscape company for context, Igrew that company over the
course of three years.
We were the largest lawn andlandscape company in our entire
(12:29):
region.
I put the company up for salein December, worst time of the
year to ever sell a company inthat space right, because grass
isn't growing.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
There's no business.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, revenue's down from what it is in the summer.
I listed it with a nationalbusiness broker.
Revenues down from what it isin the summer.
I listed it with a nationalbusiness broker and, much to my
surprise, within a couple ofweeks I had three different
offers for the company and sosold that company.
But an interesting thinghappened, michael, during the
course of growing that companyso rapidly, I started having
business owners reach out to meand say, hey look, I don't
(13:01):
really know you, but I've seen,you know you've gone from one or
two trucks to now you've gotmultiple crews, you're
maintaining the biggest accountsright, the biggest properties
around.
What do you do, like, how areyou growing?
And so that turned into theseconsulting jobs, which then,
after I sold the other, the Lawnand Landscape company, I didn't
know what I was going to do,but these consulting jobs kind
(13:27):
of piqued this idea, thiscuriosity what if I did this
full-time?
What if I turned this into anagency?
So for the first, I wish Icould tell you it was shorter
than this, but for the firstseven years of this business.
So we're going on 16 years now.
For the first seven years it wasan immense struggle, like the
first business, the firstbusiness I grew the Lawn, the
lawn landscape.
Success came easy.
I mean literally from startupto multiple crews, all the best
(13:51):
accounts in town in a three-yearperiod, and then having
multiple people compete to buythe company came very easily.
When I started this, thingsdidn't happen that way.
I was very stubborn, I was veryset in my ways and I had lost
sight of that.
One thing I mentioned earlier Iwas more focused on what I
wanted than what the customerswanted, and so, to briefly kind
(14:15):
of peel back the layers here,what had enabled me to grow the
lawn care business so quicklywas a very specific type of
marketing.
Business so quickly was a veryspecific type of marketing.
So whenever I started thisbusiness the agency I wanted
other people to use this sameapproach because I knew it
worked.
I was, you know, I believed itwould work.
I was willing to stand for thatit would work, but it was so
(14:41):
different from what they wereused to they didn't want it, and
so I would spend meeting aftermeeting trying to convince all
these other business owners totry this method, and they would
say, no, I don't want to do that, but can you help with this or
can you help with that?
And I'm like, no, I'm not goingto do that stuff right.
I know this stuff works sellthem what they want and then
figure out how to give them whatthey actually need.
So for me, that took years ofgetting over my own ego and my
(15:14):
own stubbornness and listeningto what they had to say.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That's great advice.
Well, let's talk about youragency, because it's marketing,
and I know a lot of smallbusiness owners struggle with
marketing.
Where do you want to start?
Because that's a big, big partof business.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, what I would say is this that, first of all,
most people don't evenunderstand what marketing is, so
that is the best place to start.
Most entrepreneurs usemarketing and advertising as
interchangeable words, andthey're not.
They're two different things.
Advertising is merely one pieceof marketing.
(15:51):
Marketing encompasseseverything, and when I say
everything, let me explain whatI mean by everything.
The way you answer your phoneis marketing.
The way you respond or don'trespond to someone's email is
marketing.
The smudges on your front doorat your business those are
marketing something.
(16:12):
They're communicating a messageto someone.
The fact that your restroomsare clean or dirty is marketing.
All of these things aremarketing.
And yet, as entrepreneurs, weget so hung up on.
So I challenge people look, ifthings aren't going well, let's
(16:32):
first look at all these otherpieces and components.
Several years back, we had thisvery, very popular restaurant.
I say popular.
We're in a small community, sothere's not that many local
restaurants, but it's a localrestaurant with a long history
here.
They came to us and they weregetting ready to launch an
entire new restaurant newbuilding, new branding, new
image.
And they came to us and saidlook, we want y'all to be our
(16:54):
partner, we want y'all to handleall the rollout, all the
publicity, all the stuff.
And so we go back and we startdigging in before we commit to
working with them.
And we look online and backthen Yelp was the number one
place for people to leavereviews and their reviews were
3.2 stars out of five.
And so we go back to them andwe say, look, we would be
(17:16):
honored to be your partner andto roll this out and get all the
shiny stuff and get all theattention.
But it looks like you haveanother issue going on.
You think you're here, youthink you're five stars, but the
market is telling us you're 3.2.
So we can argue all day longthat these few people and there
(17:37):
was way more than a few arecrazy, but the numbers would
indicate, on average, this iswhere you sit, this is where you
stand.
So we can talk about marketingall day long, but part of your
marketing is your service, yourfood, the quality, the speed,
all that stuff.
So we have to start there.
So for those listening, what Iwould say is, yes, advertising
(17:58):
is important, yes, getting yourmessage out there is important.
But if you're getting yourmessage out there and you're not
returning phone calls, you'renot responding to emails in a
timely manner.
You're not filling orders in atimely manner.
All the marketing in the worldisn't going to save you.
All the advertising is notgoing to save you.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
No one's ever said it like that Appreciate that.
That was a great breakdown anda differentiation.
So where would a small businessowner?
You're listening to SmallBusiness Pivots.
This episode is proudly broughtto you by BOSS, where business
ownership is simplified forsuccess.
By Boss, where businessownership is simplified for
(18:36):
success.
At Boss, we help businessowners create their businesses
to run smoothly without thembeing there 24-7.
Our seasoned business coaches,who have walked the path
themselves, provide invaluableguidance and support and with
additional services like fastbusiness loans some approved
within 24 to 48 hours, pastbusiness loans some approved
within 24 to 48 hourscomprehensive online courses,
detailed workbooks and engagingclasses, boss offers a wealth of
(18:58):
resources to help you succeed.
Discover how small businesssuccess begins with Boss at
businessownershipsimplifiedcom.
If you're enjoying the podcast,make sure to stay connected by
hitting that subscribe button,giving us a thumbs up or leaving
a positive review.
Your support keeps us going.
Now let's get back to ourincredible guest.
(19:20):
So where would a small businessowner start?
Because there's a lot of noiseout there, you should be doing
this and you should be doingthat, and take yourself back to
the early days when you werestuck trying to make a name for
yourself.
What are some things that theyshould be focused on now,
because it's all important, but,as a business owner, we only
(19:41):
have so much time.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, 100%.
So the very first thing tofocus on is back to your
customer.
Who are they?
Where do they live, where dothey work, where do they show up
?
Where are they getting theirinformation from?
Where do they work, where dothey show up, where are they
getting their information from?
And I can dive into all this indetail.
You can go Google searchcustomer avatar or customer
avatar worksheet, or reach outto us.
We'll send you one.
(20:03):
It's completely free, like go,complete one of these things,
because what we want to do is wewant to get a crystal clear
picture of who that person is.
You know, let's just say,michael, that you and I we're
business people here.
We're like you know what.
We're going to go into thegrass-fed, grass-finished
business.
Right, we're going to open aranch.
We're going to sell grass-fed,grass-finished beef.
(20:25):
That's what we're going to do.
What good would it do for us toadvertise to vegetarians or to
vegans?
And yet business owner afterbusiness owner spend their time,
their energy and theirresources and their money, which
they don't have a lot ofmarketing to the wrong people.
(20:47):
We have to get crystal clearabout who those people are and
then, once we know who they are,we know where they consume
their content.
Is it Facebook?
Is it TikTok?
Is it Instagram?
Is it YouTube?
Is it none of those?
And then we show up where theyare.
Now, when we show up where theyare, the next piece of that is
(21:07):
we have to speak in a way thatmeans something to them.
And one super quick thing hereis when we build out a customer
avatar, which is all of thislike analytical type of
information.
It gets us thinking verylogically about our customers.
The problem with that is mostpeople the vast majority do not
(21:27):
buy based on logic.
They buy based on emotion, andwhen we approach our marketing
and advertising from a logicalperspective, we are not
communicating in the way they'rebuying.
So the simple exercise that weteach people to do is this.
We call it the magic journalpage exercise.
So what you're going to do isyou're going to pull out a sheet
of paper and you are going towrite a journal page as if you
(21:50):
are your customer.
You want to talk in terms ofwhat it feels like to wake up in
the morning and have a sick kid.
You want to talk about how yourboss is wondering when the
report's going to come in, butyou've got a sick kid over here.
You want to talk about howthere's stress around money
right now because the economy'sbad or whatever the things may
be.
You want to pour yourself intotheir mindset, write a page as
(22:15):
if you were them and then, ifyou turn around and go write
your ad, write your Facebookpost.
It is night and day differentthan the way you would write it
just based on analytical facts.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's a good point.
We worked with an attorney nottoo long ago and they were.
Of course they had all thefull-page ads and the prominent
magazines and all that goodstuff, but when we started
working with them, their actualtarget audience were uneducated
people.
(22:49):
Uneducated people, in otherwords, teenagers, young adults
that maybe had a criminal record.
Those are two different lovelanguages, if you want to call
it that.
I mean one's kind of aprominent, well-spoken drives,
cadillacs and rolls.
You know that.
And then the other one isbarely making payroll, barely
(23:11):
making ends meet, and don't havethe same vocabulary that the
others do, and so you're.
You're right on point there.
What would be the next thingafter we get our avatar,
complete, our ideal customer?
What would you suggest thatthey look into with the limited
time that they have andresources?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Absolutely.
I think the the biggesttakeaway if I could give just
one, if I had to summarize it toone takeaway is this when it
comes to your advertising ormarketing, you can't think
better.
You have to think different.
So I see this time and timeagain our best salesperson for
our entire company is thecompetitor of the person who
(23:52):
reaches out to us.
So what happens is Sally acrossthe street, who owns the local
coffee shop across the street.
Her competitor three blocksover just gets a new website.
Sally sees it and says, wow,their website's amazing.
Look at ours.
Ours looks like garbage.
Let me call Ugly Mug across thestreet and say, hey, we need a
new website.
(24:13):
You cannot out better yourcompetition.
You can out different yourcompetition.
So, when it comes to yourmarketing and the pieces you're
creating, if you want the bestcase study on what to do, go
look at like if you're doingfacebook.
Go look at what they're doingon facebook and then do
something that's completelydifferent than what your
(24:34):
competitors are doing.
Because in this world and youmentioned it in this world
there's so much noise, there'sso much chaos.
The only hope we have is tostand out.
That is the only hope you haveas an entrepreneur, you cannot
blend in.
You must stand out with yourmessaging.
There's too many other messagesthat are too similar and you
(24:56):
will spend too much time tryingto convince them why you are
better than the competitors.
But when you communicate howyou are different, it cuts
through the noise.
They know why they should handyou the money instead of your
competitor.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Going back to your reference of patience, what is
kind of a typical timeline of sowe do some trial and error,
some posts, some things likethat, trying to connect with our
prospects?
What's kind of a timelinebefore we go yeah, that's not
working, we need to shift somethings.
Is there anything kind of bestpractices in marketing that we
kind of a timeline before we goyeah, that's not working, we
need to shift some things.
Is there anything kind of bestpractices in marketing that we
kind of give it at least thisamount of time?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
The answer is it's going to vary based on the
industry.
However, what I can tell youacross the board and over the
last 16 years I've worked withthousands of entrepreneurs At
any point in time we haveroughly 120 active clients that
we're working with in lots ofdifferent dozens of different
industries.
At one point, and what I cantell you is this is that most
(26:00):
entrepreneurs are not patientenough with the ads, with the
things they're doing right.
So just when things couldpossibly start working, we're
tired of seeing it.
That's been up for three weeks.
We're like can't we dosomething new?
Can't we do something different?
Like it's time to change it.
We've got to learn to be morepatient with those things.
(26:22):
The two other things I'llmention number one and again,
this varies greatly, but as ageneral rule, what you're doing
today marketing advertising wiseyou probably will not see the
benefits of that for six weeks.
That's again a good general.
So the work I'm doing today I'mnot doing the work today for a
(26:43):
client today I'm doing the worktoday for a client six, six
weeks from now.
That's the mindset we have tohave.
We have to be thinking this isfor six weeks in the future.
So if I'm not doing anythingtoday.
My business still may be goodtoday because of what I did six
weeks ago, but if I stop doingit today, six weeks in the
future, it's going to startdrying up.
(27:05):
Now again, that timeframevaries a little bit based on the
industry.
The other thing I would say isthis that all of marketing boils
down to these two things humanpsychology and math.
That is it.
So human psychology makes sense, right, we have to persuade
people with our marketingmessages to pull out their
wallet and hand us money.
And then math, because our jobis to hold every dollar
(27:29):
accountable.
We can't just put some moneyout there and hope and pray it
works.
We can put the money out there,hope and pray it works, but we
better be measuring it.
So we have a benchmark thatsays okay, I hoped and prayed
last time it would work.
It produced this return.
This time I've got to beat thatreturn right.
So math comes into that.
(27:50):
But when we look at humanpsychology, there are really
just three core ingredients toget people to go from learning
about us to actually pulling outtheir wallet and handing us
money.
Number one they have to knowabout us super, super obvious.
Number two they have to like us.
Going back to what I mentionedearlier, we're never going to
convince a vegan or vegetarianto like our cattle business,
(28:11):
right, our grass fed beef.
So don't waste our time.
So know about us, like us.
And the one that creates themost amount of time is the third
ingredient, which is trust.
They have to trust that ourproduct and service is gonna be
of more value to them than themoney they part with.
So the bigger the ticket item,the more trust has to be there.
(28:36):
The smaller the ticket item,the less trust has to be there
in that equation.
So use that just as a framework, based on the industry that
you're in, the type of peopleyou're serving and the cost of
your product or service to kindof give you some parameters on
how long you should expectthings to take in the marketing
cycle.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
To piggyback on that.
I've used an analogy lately.
We all know who Amazon is,right, we see their trucks,
their advertisements everywhere.
And to your point, when I askpeople, can you tell me where
the arrows are on their logo?
Most people can't, and youdon't even know what it really
is.
So your little piece of the piein the world, no one knows you
(29:25):
because most people don't knowthat the little loop goes from A
to Z under the letters, andthat's just kind of an analogy.
That kind of works, along withwhat you're saying is you might
be sick of it, but nobody elsehas even seen it.
You know or recognize it, andso that's a great point.
You went from the smallbusiness to the larger business.
(29:48):
The show is all about smallbusiness pivots Any pivots along
the way that you made that youcan think of 100%.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Every day, every day, is a pivot.
What I've discovered over theyears, michael is Every day,
every day is a pivot.
What I've discovered over theyears, michael is again, this
isn't scientific, it's just frommy real world experience,
literally working with hundredsand hundreds probably several
thousand entrepreneurs at thispoint.
But I believe that there arefive core stages that all
businesses go through, and thesestages don't necessarily have
(30:18):
to do with money.
They have more to do with theentrepreneur's mindset during
those stages.
So, if you don't mind, I'lljust briefly.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Let's hear it Mindset's big, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
So stage number one is what I would call the me
stage, and this is the stagewhere you're learning to trust
yourself as an entrepreneur.
It's where you're learning todo the basic things of running a
business right.
It's all about this self-trust.
And that then leads into thenext phase, that I would call
the we stage.
This is where you're learningto actually trust other people
(30:50):
to do pieces and components ofwhat you know to do.
And then the third phase iswhat I would call the they phase
, and this is all about systemsand processes.
So this is when we're learningto actually implement and roll
out systems and processes thatwe trust.
We trust these things, wevetted these things and we're
(31:11):
learning to trust those things,not just from me as the leader,
but the team as well.
And then the next one is I callthis the machine.
This is the most complicatedone, I think, but this is where
we're actually getting thepeople in the systems and
processes to work in harmonyVery, very difficult to do
(31:33):
without a lot of money or a lotof time, one of those two things
.
I'm not saying it can't be done,but it's very, very it's
challenging and part of thereason is by default.
Most entrepreneurs do not likesystems and processes.
What do you mean?
I have to clock in, like Icreated this company.
What are you talking about?
I'm not clocking in.
(31:53):
What do you mean?
I've got to request my PTO,like I'm the founder of the
company.
I'm not doing that.
The problem with that is thatthat attitude undermines the
entire culture, because we allknow this If you're a parent,
you know this.
More is called than is taught.
(32:14):
They're picking up on the waywe behave.
We can say all day long thatthese systems and processes
matter, that clocking in matters, that requesting PTO matters,
that following the checklistmatters, but if we're not doing
it, they're never going to do it.
So, anyway, that was the fourthone, the most challenging one in
my opinion.
And then the fifth one is whatI would call creative
destruction, and what I can tellyou is, when I started this
(32:38):
company, I had a very specifictype of marketing that I only
wanted to do.
It took me years to finally sayyou know what?
I've got to pivot from mystupid idea that I know works,
but I've got to start actuallyselling people what they want.
So I had to pivot there.
Another one was I pivoted andthen I kept having people ask me
(32:59):
hey, can you help us with thewebsite?
Well, no, we don't.
I don't ask me, hey, can youhelp us with a website?
Well, no, we don't.
I don't know anything aboutwebsites.
But you know what I said.
You know we're going to figureout websites.
Last year our web division wasour biggest division within our
company, all because of a pivot.
All because I said you knowwhat.
The next time somebody says canyou help, I'm going to say yes
(33:19):
and figure it out.
We pivoted again, you know, withsocial media, another huge
pivot for us.
So there's been lots of pivots,but I'll go back to this one
thing.
The absolute biggest pivot inmy entire journey happened
probably seven or so years ago,and that is when I looked at the
person in the mirror everysingle morning and I asked
(33:40):
myself which do you love more,wayne?
Do you love the excuses and theexceptions you're making or do
you love the success that you'reafter?
Because I had, for seven years,had all the reasons why my
employees didn't want to workhard.
My employees showed up late,the vendors didn't send the
stuff they were supposed to send, the customers were ungrateful.
(34:01):
I had this long list of stuff.
Everybody else was to blame butme, and that's when I realized
that our businesses are nothingmore than reflection of our own
mindsets.
That is what they are.
Our businesses reflect back ourown mindsets and our own
ability to lead ourselves.
(34:22):
That pivot for me has been themost difficult, but the most
rewarding and the mostbeneficial.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, it's real eye-opening when business owners
come to the realization is thebusiness they have today,
whether there's challenges ornot, they either created or they
allowed Because they own it.
So exactly what you're sayingTell us about your business so
that listeners know who to call.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Super quick version.
So the name of the company isUgly Mug Marketing.
That name actually comes fromthis quote by the name of a
gentleman by the name of DavidOgilvie.
David Ogilvie came over to theUS, I believe, in the late
fifties.
He started an advertisingagency on Madison Avenue called
Ogilvie and his partner, Mather.
Ogilvie and Mather became thelargest ad agency in the entire
(35:13):
world.
They're still in the top 10.
David Ogilvie had this amazingquote, which was I would rather
you show me an ad that's uglyand effective over one that's
beautiful but isn't.
And so that is our North star.
We, we operate every single dayin an industry that is so
enamored by winning awards mostcreative design, best video and
(35:35):
so it's very easy to do thingsfor the sake of creativity.
Our goal is to get results forour clients, and we are so
confident in our ability to dothat that we don't even require
contracts.
We simply tell our new clients.
We say look, give us two months.
If, at the end of two months,you are not thrilled with the
(35:57):
direction we're going, If you'renot thrilled with the results
that we're starting to producefor you, we don't want your
money.
We want you to go find somebodywho can get results for you.
We're not going to lock youinto this long-term thing just
because we can.
So we've built our reputationon getting results, and the
beauty of that is two things.
Number one, it's wonderful forour clients.
(36:18):
But number two, it forces us tonot hold on to what once was
true in the marketing world, butto always be discovering what's
true today, what is workingtoday.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
If somebody wants to follow you, find you, where
would they do that?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Simplest place, our website, that is
uglymugmarketingcom.
The other place, just where Ikind of share more leadership
and personal stuff, would be onInstagram, and that's at fire
yourself oh.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I love it.
Are you on LinkedIn, anywhereelse where they can?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
link LinkedIn the same place, company name there
as well.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Fantastic.
Well, I always end with onelast question, that is, if you
were in a room of businessowners of all different sizes
industries, what is some adviceyou could give them that would
be applicable to everybody?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Love the question.
The answer would be thisConsistency creates miracles.
We, as entrepreneurs, often byour wiring, hate consistency.
We love chasing the next newidea.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, it's all of us.
We love the next big thing.
The problem is that mentalitycan become very detrimental to
building a culture specifically,a culture that is
self-accountable and highperformance.
Specifically, a culture that isself-accountable and high
performance.
When we are constantly jumpingfrom thing to thing, when we
(37:46):
aren't willing to develop ourown disciplines and our own
consistencies, we end up with acompany that is a reflection of
us, which means everyone'sjumping from thing to thing all
the time and we get no traction.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Wow.
So I learned something today,also listeners.
Well, Wayne, you've been awealth of knowledge and a
blessing to many.
Appreciate your time andinsights and wish you the best
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Thank you for listening to Small Business
Pivots.
Please don't forget tosubscribe and share this podcast
.
If your business is stuck, youneed help creating a business
that can run without you, or youneed a fast business loan or
line of credit, go to ourwebsite
businessownershipsimplifiedcomand schedule a free consultation
(38:33):
to learn why small businesssuccess starts with boss.
If you want to talk anythingsmall business related, email me
at michael atmichaeldmorrisoncom.
We'll see you next time onSmall Business Pivots.
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