June 12, 2023 • 19 mins
So I Said Pod: Shame, Rebellion, and the Search for Acceptance. Join Alyissa Sagoes and Dylan Sellers as they explore the complexities of shame in society, its role in community accountability, and the rebellion against traditional norms. Delve into thought-provoking discussions on self-governance, the dangers of being your own god, and the importance of embracing a larger power. Get ready for witty banter and profound insights in this captivating episode!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alyissa Sagoes (00:01):
So I said, or he said, People need to feel more
shame. People are not ashamed ofthemselves in their actions
enough.
Dylan Sellers (00:13):
Shame is a useful emotion. Really it
Alyissa Sagoes (00:17):
is, but please, like, bandage that up and make
it all pretty. It's gonna soundaway.
Dylan Sellers (00:24):
Well, to be fair, I want it to sound away. That's
part of the point, right? Like,feel, feel shame, you know what
I'm saying? And respond to theshame. Shame is a useful emotion
in community. Right? It keeps usfrom hitting each other. You
don't, I'm saying like, shame issupposed to be the thing that
(00:46):
like allows us to stay in line,stay in community and hold
oneself accountable to theculture of set of community,
right? Yeah. So people aren'tlike hitting you for offending
them. You know what I'm saying?
Like, you should feel shame forwhat you're doing. Yeah. So stop
doing it. Yeah, you don't I'msaying? And so we live in a
society currently, where like,there is no shame. Oh, my God, I
(01:10):
don't think people are ashamedof anything. Right? It kind of
goes to my point of like, nobodyfeels like anything is sacred or
holy. Right. So like, everythingis common. Everything's up for
grabs, you know what I'm saying?
So like, when the, with thatidea takes hold shame, there is
(01:33):
there is no space for shame,right? Because what are you
being accountable to? Right, ifyou are only accountable to you,
and nothing is sacred, unlessyou say a sacred and even if you
say it's sacred? I could saythat it's not? Do you know what
I'm saying? And then like,there's nothing to stop me from
treating it like it's common.
Yeah. So there is no shame.
Unknown (01:53):
I. So I agree. Okay, you. I think that maybe this is
just a theory, that lack ofshame that we are experiencing
now. Could be or could have stemfrom an act of like, rebellion
(02:14):
of previously, previouslyfeeling shamed for everything.
Yeah, we do. Like, I'm not goingto take it back to the
dehydration. Roman Empire. Butthere was a lot of things set in
place by the community. Andthese, these the highest leaders
(02:37):
of Said communities, and whatthey said as shameful, you know,
and then the city kind of fellin line, the communities kind of
fell in line, but it didn'tleave enough space for a human
error and be like, we all take anote from this guy, like, you
(02:59):
know, like, he kind of he's on,he's on his power trip stuff
inside. We're lucky. Yeah. So Ithink maybe now, you know, could
it be you like, could it be?
Could it be displayed in adifferent way? Absolutely. Yeah.
But I think maybe the lack ofshame these days, is an act of
rebellion, like, I was searchingfor acceptance, in my
(03:24):
personhood, just validate me forbeing me, like, you know, like,
Why do I have to go to hell forbeing this or that? I'm, so I'm
gonna be nothing. I'm gonna I'mnot gonna conform to what you
think, why do I have to go tohell? Why is that? My, you said
it, right. Yeah. And so I'mright. But there's,
Dylan Sellers (03:50):
like, Who are you to meet a real
Alyissa Sagoes (03:55):
person that because you started off by
saying that, you know, shamewithin the community is a
useful, like, you need to feelshame. You know, when you do
something that, you know,deviates from how the community
should act, the community has tobe in a healthy state to, like,
facilitate that correctly. AndI've noticed that have not
Dylan Sellers (04:18):
that's fair.
Right. But I'm with you. Like,you're not you're not wrong, you
cook it right now, even thoughsay like, You're not wrong. I
think that I invite into thatinto that stew that you're that
you're that you cook and whenyou say that, I want to know a
couple. Yeah. If you destroycommunity, right, then there is
(04:43):
nothing there. Yeah, you seethem saying so like, because we
are very individualistic aspeople currently, we don't want
to be held accountable tocommunity. Yeah, so like,
community is as healthy as itspeople. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And
so like, culture is as healthyas as people. And none of us
(05:05):
will ever be completely healthy.
Yeah. What shame is, is the isthe thing that allows for
accountability and community,because I don't really have any
other recourse, but shame. Andif you don't have shame, then
(05:27):
there's no telling, like, youcould do whatever you want.
Right? And that's part of theattraction to not having shame.
Right? Yeah. Is to be able to doliterally, whatever you want.
Alyissa Sagoes (05:42):
Okay. Agreed.
So, where would you where? Whereis shame sourced from? Is it
dependent on others and how theyfeel? Or because one could be
ashamed of themselves?
Obviously, you know, but eventhat feeling comes from where
(06:08):
you were shame? Where shouldshame be sourced? from, like,
culture? Right? So it so itwould have to be dependent on
other people?
Dylan Sellers (06:20):
Yeah, well, everything is right. Right. And
so like, the community in whichyou attach yourself to, has a
culture, right. And that cultureis, is developed over time,
shared experiences, like ashared history, and like, the
(06:43):
respect of those things areimportant. And when you violate
that respect, you should feelshame. Right? It is the way to
keep the culture, the communitytogether. For believers, that
source is scripture. It is bothscripture, history and culture.
(07:05):
Right? Like, that's where thatcomes from. So when you are
changing culture, the thingsthat you are ashamed about will
change. Right? Like those thosethings, our culture is dynamic,
right, it is not stagnant. Partof the problem with the faith
currently is that like, we wantthe faith in the culture that is
attached to the faith to bestagnant when we serve a dynamic
(07:28):
god. Yeah, right. You know whatI'm saying? It's like, that's a
problem. But let's take it outof the faith for a second, let's
say we're talking about Blackculture, right? Being a part of
black culture has rules. Whenyou violate those rules, right?
Like when you go against thosevalues that we've set in place,
culturally, like as a group thatwe've agreed on, now, they're
(07:51):
individuals and individuals aregoing to do it individuals do.
But as a group, we agree slaveryis bad. Right? Like, there isn't
an argument about it. We don'ttalk about it. Like it's not a
thing. Slavery was bad, and ithad a detriment to our people.
And we never want to see ithappen again. Right. So when you
(08:14):
violate that, ie, our brotherKanye, right? will say something
like, slavery was a choice. Andhe gets this backlash. That is
what's supposed to happen. Yeah.
Right. Because it is dangerousfor you to dismiss such an
integral part of the culture.
(08:38):
Like whether you the point thathe was making, right is like the
effects of slavery is a choice,how I view myself going forward
is a choice, right? He didn'tarticulate that well. And that's
fine. But you should getbacklash. And you should feel
shame about it, so that you cancorrect it. Right. But the
(09:03):
problem is, the shame didn'tcome with it. And so then a
schism is created in a culture,that now you have people who
believe and are walking withthis very dangerous idea to the
integrity of the community.
Right. So that's what happenedwhen like, shame doesn't take
hold. And there isn't a coursecorrection for somebody who
(09:23):
comes with a crazy idea. Right?
Like, if that shame is not intaken place and you don't
correct it. Now, you create aschism and people are following
you on this. And you havedamaged the integrity of the
community. Right. Which is whylike, again, shame is so
necessary. Yeah. Has it beenabused? Absolutely. There isn't
(09:46):
anything that humans have thathasn't been abused. Right. But
when you get rid of italtogether, you cannot have a
functioning community. You justcan't.
Alyissa Sagoes (09:55):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that goes back toyou know, kind of what you You
were saying offline, with peoplemaking themselves their own
gods, and self governance. And,you know, and, you know, I?
Could that be a cry foracceptance? Maybe?
Dylan Sellers (10:19):
Yeah, well, it's a cry for importance. Right?
Right. For for relevance, right.
And so like, that's somethingthat like black folk, my culture
my brothers and sisters, we dealwith all the time, because it's
like going back to your, yourconversation, about like, the
image that you saw when you sawGod, right? Like the image that
(10:41):
was given to you, of this allpowerful being being white is a
problem, right? And so like, mybrothers and sisters are looking
for ways to feel powerful,right, and the most powerful
being I am aware of is God. Andif you are giving me an image of
God, that is that of myoppressor, in order as an act of
(11:03):
rebellion, and as an act of asan act of being able to, like,
survive, right? Like and thrivein my own culture. I need to be
God. Right? Like, I need to takeon this. Because there couldn't
(11:24):
be, if I'm rocking with theimage, or you're rocking with
the image of my oppressor, Ineed something that's strong
enough to combat that, tosurvive it. Right? And so like,
I understand where that's comingfrom, but again, dangerous,
right? Because what happens whenyour God gets tired, if you
(11:44):
don't find God, to be outside ofyourself dwelling in you, yes,
through the power of HolySpirit. But you don't see God as
something that is outside ofyou. What happens when your God
gets tired? What happens whenyour God gets sick? You don't
know say what happens when yourgod like, make some mistake and
(12:05):
find yourself is grievous humanexperience. Right? What happens?
What happens then? Well, then,like, we can't lean on that
right? Yeah, then I am trappedand at the mercy of the god of
that oppress that of thatoppressor, right. Instead of
seeing God as larger than boththe oppressor and the oppressed.
(12:28):
Yeah, right. Like that is largerthan both of that. That dwells
in me that loves me that thatcan guide me, right. Like, I
love me, that is above me. Ithas to be it has to be because
like, I can't just lean on me,right? I'm going to die. Yeah,
that is a fact. Right? Yeah. Icannot hold the image in my mind
(12:52):
of my god dying. Right? Like itis. It is inconceivable to
think, right? I was I wasteaching about this last night,
we were doing Bible study. Andwe were in John 13, where Jesus
talking to His disciples gettingto prepare for his stuff. But as
(13:15):
I said, we're at the end of thechapter where Jesus tells Peter,
before the call of the CRO,before the rooster crows three
times, you're gonna deny thatyou even know me, right? And
this is usually pointed tosomething about Peter being
doubtful and stuff like that.
Right? What I believe is alsohappening there is, Peter got
(13:38):
the revelation, that Jesus wasthe Son of God. Right? He gets
the revelation that he is theMessiah. He's the son of God.
And he is watching the Son ofGod, the thing that he believes
is his God be dismantled by thething that has been oppressing
(14:05):
him his entire life. The Romangovernment has been oppressing
him, the Jewish leadership thathe the Roman government had put
in place in that way. And theRoman government itself has been
oppressing Peter his entirelife. And now this Messiah has
come. And he is watching themdestroy his God. And now these
(14:32):
people are coming to him likethis your king. Yeah, that's
what they say. And so on. Right?
They're like, weren't youwalking with this guy like,
aren't you? And like, he'sstartled. You know what I'm
saying? Like, you're my God, andI'm looking at my God be
destroyed. Yeah. So am I denyingthat I know him? Yeah. But I am
(14:55):
also denied Everything that Iknow is a powerful moment that's
happening to Peter there. Whichis why it's so dangerous to be
your own god. Yeah. Because youhave been in situations where
you're watching things destroyyou. And you can't do anything
(15:15):
about it.
Alyissa Sagoes (15:20):
Yeah, and the thing with that too because then
that you know, one could arguethat nothing is destroyed me you
know I've completely dissociatedfrom this human experience and
just know anything could happento me and I am you know, but I
think even then you're notliving the intended human
(15:42):
experience Yeah, God had foryou. Yeah, absolutely. Like you
were not meant to assume all ofthis all of this responsibility
and then to you know, kind ofact like it's not happening
Dylan Sellers (15:53):
yeah, right yeah.
Like to disassociate Yeah, I'msaying like that's a that's a
problem to disassociate and thisis exactly what Peter does
right? Like if we go on in thestory, he disassociate so much
that he goes back to fishing brolike that's what happened to him
like that's what happens he'slike you know what I'm missing
maybe this was all a dream I'mbeen tripping make tweaks me my
(16:17):
boat I'm going back to fish youknow say like what I know this
is what I know like I'm notmessing with your like maybe I
was tripping is cool give me theboat I'm out you know what I'm
saying? Like that's he does helegit dis associates because
like could you imagine the levelof grief that exists in that
moment? Like yeah, what rightand so like think about like our
(16:42):
our brothers and sisters who whobelieve themselves to be God or
believe that like black peopleare God right? Or black man is
God what does that do to yourpsyche? Then when you see police
gun them down in the street? Youare watching your God be
destroyed. Yeah. When you'rewatching like women. And I have
(17:04):
some hotel hotel brothers whobelieve that like black woman is
God. I hear you my brother butwhat do you do then? When you
are watching your
Alyissa Sagoes (17:16):
god die? Be the most disrespected right
Dylan Sellers (17:20):
like you're watching it be dislike how do
you how do you rationalize thatyou're your God has to be bigger
than that. And I'm notsuggesting that like black women
are nothing no, I'm notsuggesting that black men are
nothing but to make them yourGod. Yeah. puts you in a place
(17:41):
that like I can't like you knowme like you can't. You can't get
out of that grief. Yeah, thereis no hope. Yeah, at that point.
Yeah.
Alyissa Sagoes (17:52):
I agree.
Dylan Sellers (17:53):
Yeah. I don't know that I've ever talked about
this. Like on on like, okay, youknow, this is this this season
two stuff. Do you have anythingto add? Because I know that we
gotta we gotta wrap this one.
But like, I have nothing
Alyissa Sagoes (18:08):
to add. You touched on every point every
question.
Dylan Sellers (18:13):
Bring it out.
Bring it out. Welcome. Y'all are
Alyissa Sagoes (18:17):
welcome. Okay.
took a hiatus. I don't know whyhe thought that was okay. Is
this camera on?
Is it Camera two? It's allcamera. Okay. It's okay. Ladies
and gentlemen.
Dylan Sellers (18:31):
Oh my gosh, praise God. All right. This is
just so I see it. And I just didapparently. Thank you, Alyssa.
We thank you.
So I said, or he said, People need to feel more
shame. People are not ashamed ofthemselves in their actions
enough.
Dylan Sellers (00:13):
Shame is a useful emotion. Really it
Alyissa Sagoes (00:17):
is, but please, like, bandage that up and make
it all pretty. It's gonna soundaway.
Dylan Sellers (00:24):
Well, to be fair, I want it to sound away. That's
part of the point, right? Like,feel, feel shame, you know what
I'm saying? And respond to theshame. Shame is a useful emotion
in community. Right? It keeps usfrom hitting each other. You
don't, I'm saying like, shame issupposed to be the thing that
(00:46):
like allows us to stay in line,stay in community and hold
oneself accountable to theculture of set of community,
right? Yeah. So people aren'tlike hitting you for offending
them. You know what I'm saying?
Like, you should feel shame forwhat you're doing. Yeah. So stop
doing it. Yeah, you don't I'msaying? And so we live in a
society currently, where like,there is no shame. Oh, my God, I
(01:10):
don't think people are ashamedof anything. Right? It kind of
goes to my point of like, nobodyfeels like anything is sacred or
holy. Right. So like, everythingis common. Everything's up for
grabs, you know what I'm saying?
So like, when the, with thatidea takes hold shame, there is
(01:33):
there is no space for shame,right? Because what are you
being accountable to? Right, ifyou are only accountable to you,
and nothing is sacred, unlessyou say a sacred and even if you
say it's sacred? I could saythat it's not? Do you know what
I'm saying? And then like,there's nothing to stop me from
treating it like it's common.
Yeah. So there is no shame.
Unknown (01:53):
I. So I agree. Okay, you. I think that maybe this is
just a theory, that lack ofshame that we are experiencing
now. Could be or could have stemfrom an act of like, rebellion
(02:14):
of previously, previouslyfeeling shamed for everything.
Yeah, we do. Like, I'm not goingto take it back to the
dehydration. Roman Empire. Butthere was a lot of things set in
place by the community. Andthese, these the highest leaders
(02:37):
of Said communities, and whatthey said as shameful, you know,
and then the city kind of fellin line, the communities kind of
fell in line, but it didn'tleave enough space for a human
error and be like, we all take anote from this guy, like, you
(02:59):
know, like, he kind of he's on,he's on his power trip stuff
inside. We're lucky. Yeah. So Ithink maybe now, you know, could
it be you like, could it be?
Could it be displayed in adifferent way? Absolutely. Yeah.
But I think maybe the lack ofshame these days, is an act of
rebellion, like, I was searchingfor acceptance, in my
(03:24):
personhood, just validate me forbeing me, like, you know, like,
Why do I have to go to hell forbeing this or that? I'm, so I'm
gonna be nothing. I'm gonna I'mnot gonna conform to what you
think, why do I have to go tohell? Why is that? My, you said
it, right. Yeah. And so I'mright. But there's,
Dylan Sellers (03:50):
like, Who are you to meet a real
Alyissa Sagoes (03:55):
person that because you started off by
saying that, you know, shamewithin the community is a
useful, like, you need to feelshame. You know, when you do
something that, you know,deviates from how the community
should act, the community has tobe in a healthy state to, like,
facilitate that correctly. AndI've noticed that have not
Dylan Sellers (04:18):
that's fair.
Right. But I'm with you. Like,you're not you're not wrong, you
cook it right now, even thoughsay like, You're not wrong. I
think that I invite into thatinto that stew that you're that
you're that you cook and whenyou say that, I want to know a
couple. Yeah. If you destroycommunity, right, then there is
(04:43):
nothing there. Yeah, you seethem saying so like, because we
are very individualistic aspeople currently, we don't want
to be held accountable tocommunity. Yeah, so like,
community is as healthy as itspeople. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And
so like, culture is as healthyas as people. And none of us
(05:05):
will ever be completely healthy.
Yeah. What shame is, is the isthe thing that allows for
accountability and community,because I don't really have any
other recourse, but shame. Andif you don't have shame, then
(05:27):
there's no telling, like, youcould do whatever you want.
Right? And that's part of theattraction to not having shame.
Right? Yeah. Is to be able to doliterally, whatever you want.
Alyissa Sagoes (05:42):
Okay. Agreed.
So, where would you where? Whereis shame sourced from? Is it
dependent on others and how theyfeel? Or because one could be
ashamed of themselves?
Obviously, you know, but eventhat feeling comes from where
(06:08):
you were shame? Where shouldshame be sourced? from, like,
culture? Right? So it so itwould have to be dependent on
other people?
Dylan Sellers (06:20):
Yeah, well, everything is right. Right. And
so like, the community in whichyou attach yourself to, has a
culture, right. And that cultureis, is developed over time,
shared experiences, like ashared history, and like, the
(06:43):
respect of those things areimportant. And when you violate
that respect, you should feelshame. Right? It is the way to
keep the culture, the communitytogether. For believers, that
source is scripture. It is bothscripture, history and culture.
(07:05):
Right? Like, that's where thatcomes from. So when you are
changing culture, the thingsthat you are ashamed about will
change. Right? Like those thosethings, our culture is dynamic,
right, it is not stagnant. Partof the problem with the faith
currently is that like, we wantthe faith in the culture that is
attached to the faith to bestagnant when we serve a dynamic
(07:28):
god. Yeah, right. You know whatI'm saying? It's like, that's a
problem. But let's take it outof the faith for a second, let's
say we're talking about Blackculture, right? Being a part of
black culture has rules. Whenyou violate those rules, right?
Like when you go against thosevalues that we've set in place,
culturally, like as a group thatwe've agreed on, now, they're
(07:51):
individuals and individuals aregoing to do it individuals do.
But as a group, we agree slaveryis bad. Right? Like, there isn't
an argument about it. We don'ttalk about it. Like it's not a
thing. Slavery was bad, and ithad a detriment to our people.
And we never want to see ithappen again. Right. So when you
(08:14):
violate that, ie, our brotherKanye, right? will say something
like, slavery was a choice. Andhe gets this backlash. That is
what's supposed to happen. Yeah.
Right. Because it is dangerousfor you to dismiss such an
integral part of the culture.
(08:38):
Like whether you the point thathe was making, right is like the
effects of slavery is a choice,how I view myself going forward
is a choice, right? He didn'tarticulate that well. And that's
fine. But you should getbacklash. And you should feel
shame about it, so that you cancorrect it. Right. But the
(09:03):
problem is, the shame didn'tcome with it. And so then a
schism is created in a culture,that now you have people who
believe and are walking withthis very dangerous idea to the
integrity of the community.
Right. So that's what happenedwhen like, shame doesn't take
hold. And there isn't a coursecorrection for somebody who
(09:23):
comes with a crazy idea. Right?
Like, if that shame is not intaken place and you don't
correct it. Now, you create aschism and people are following
you on this. And you havedamaged the integrity of the
community. Right. Which is whylike, again, shame is so
necessary. Yeah. Has it beenabused? Absolutely. There isn't
(09:46):
anything that humans have thathasn't been abused. Right. But
when you get rid of italtogether, you cannot have a
functioning community. You justcan't.
Alyissa Sagoes (09:55):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that goes back toyou know, kind of what you You
were saying offline, with peoplemaking themselves their own
gods, and self governance. And,you know, and, you know, I?
Could that be a cry foracceptance? Maybe?
Dylan Sellers (10:19):
Yeah, well, it's a cry for importance. Right?
Right. For for relevance, right.
And so like, that's somethingthat like black folk, my culture
my brothers and sisters, we dealwith all the time, because it's
like going back to your, yourconversation, about like, the
image that you saw when you sawGod, right? Like the image that
(10:41):
was given to you, of this allpowerful being being white is a
problem, right? And so like, mybrothers and sisters are looking
for ways to feel powerful,right, and the most powerful
being I am aware of is God. Andif you are giving me an image of
God, that is that of myoppressor, in order as an act of
(11:03):
rebellion, and as an act of asan act of being able to, like,
survive, right? Like and thrivein my own culture. I need to be
God. Right? Like, I need to takeon this. Because there couldn't
(11:24):
be, if I'm rocking with theimage, or you're rocking with
the image of my oppressor, Ineed something that's strong
enough to combat that, tosurvive it. Right? And so like,
I understand where that's comingfrom, but again, dangerous,
right? Because what happens whenyour God gets tired, if you
(11:44):
don't find God, to be outside ofyourself dwelling in you, yes,
through the power of HolySpirit. But you don't see God as
something that is outside ofyou. What happens when your God
gets tired? What happens whenyour God gets sick? You don't
know say what happens when yourgod like, make some mistake and
(12:05):
find yourself is grievous humanexperience. Right? What happens?
What happens then? Well, then,like, we can't lean on that
right? Yeah, then I am trappedand at the mercy of the god of
that oppress that of thatoppressor, right. Instead of
seeing God as larger than boththe oppressor and the oppressed.
(12:28):
Yeah, right. Like that is largerthan both of that. That dwells
in me that loves me that thatcan guide me, right. Like, I
love me, that is above me. Ithas to be it has to be because
like, I can't just lean on me,right? I'm going to die. Yeah,
that is a fact. Right? Yeah. Icannot hold the image in my mind
(12:52):
of my god dying. Right? Like itis. It is inconceivable to
think, right? I was I wasteaching about this last night,
we were doing Bible study. Andwe were in John 13, where Jesus
talking to His disciples gettingto prepare for his stuff. But as
(13:15):
I said, we're at the end of thechapter where Jesus tells Peter,
before the call of the CRO,before the rooster crows three
times, you're gonna deny thatyou even know me, right? And
this is usually pointed tosomething about Peter being
doubtful and stuff like that.
Right? What I believe is alsohappening there is, Peter got
(13:38):
the revelation, that Jesus wasthe Son of God. Right? He gets
the revelation that he is theMessiah. He's the son of God.
And he is watching the Son ofGod, the thing that he believes
is his God be dismantled by thething that has been oppressing
(14:05):
him his entire life. The Romangovernment has been oppressing
him, the Jewish leadership thathe the Roman government had put
in place in that way. And theRoman government itself has been
oppressing Peter his entirelife. And now this Messiah has
come. And he is watching themdestroy his God. And now these
(14:32):
people are coming to him likethis your king. Yeah, that's
what they say. And so on. Right?
They're like, weren't youwalking with this guy like,
aren't you? And like, he'sstartled. You know what I'm
saying? Like, you're my God, andI'm looking at my God be
destroyed. Yeah. So am I denyingthat I know him? Yeah. But I am
(14:55):
also denied Everything that Iknow is a powerful moment that's
happening to Peter there. Whichis why it's so dangerous to be
your own god. Yeah. Because youhave been in situations where
you're watching things destroyyou. And you can't do anything
(15:15):
about it.
Alyissa Sagoes (15:20):
Yeah, and the thing with that too because then
that you know, one could arguethat nothing is destroyed me you
know I've completely dissociatedfrom this human experience and
just know anything could happento me and I am you know, but I
think even then you're notliving the intended human
(15:42):
experience Yeah, God had foryou. Yeah, absolutely. Like you
were not meant to assume all ofthis all of this responsibility
and then to you know, kind ofact like it's not happening
Dylan Sellers (15:53):
yeah, right yeah.
Like to disassociate Yeah, I'msaying like that's a that's a
problem to disassociate and thisis exactly what Peter does
right? Like if we go on in thestory, he disassociate so much
that he goes back to fishing brolike that's what happened to him
like that's what happens he'slike you know what I'm missing
maybe this was all a dream I'mbeen tripping make tweaks me my
(16:17):
boat I'm going back to fish youknow say like what I know this
is what I know like I'm notmessing with your like maybe I
was tripping is cool give me theboat I'm out you know what I'm
saying? Like that's he does helegit dis associates because
like could you imagine the levelof grief that exists in that
moment? Like yeah, what rightand so like think about like our
(16:42):
our brothers and sisters who whobelieve themselves to be God or
believe that like black peopleare God right? Or black man is
God what does that do to yourpsyche? Then when you see police
gun them down in the street? Youare watching your God be
destroyed. Yeah. When you'rewatching like women. And I have
(17:04):
some hotel hotel brothers whobelieve that like black woman is
God. I hear you my brother butwhat do you do then? When you
are watching your
Alyissa Sagoes (17:16):
god die? Be the most disrespected right
Dylan Sellers (17:20):
like you're watching it be dislike how do
you how do you rationalize thatyou're your God has to be bigger
than that. And I'm notsuggesting that like black women
are nothing no, I'm notsuggesting that black men are
nothing but to make them yourGod. Yeah. puts you in a place
(17:41):
that like I can't like you knowme like you can't. You can't get
out of that grief. Yeah, thereis no hope. Yeah, at that point.
Yeah.
Alyissa Sagoes (17:52):
I agree.
Dylan Sellers (17:53):
Yeah. I don't know that I've ever talked about
this. Like on on like, okay, youknow, this is this this season
two stuff. Do you have anythingto add? Because I know that we
gotta we gotta wrap this one.
But like, I have nothing
Alyissa Sagoes (18:08):
to add. You touched on every point every
question.
Dylan Sellers (18:13):
Bring it out.
Bring it out. Welcome. Y'all are
Alyissa Sagoes (18:17):
welcome. Okay.
took a hiatus. I don't know whyhe thought that was okay. Is
this camera on?
Is it Camera two? It's allcamera. Okay. It's okay. Ladies
and gentlemen.
Dylan Sellers (18:31):
Oh my gosh, praise God. All right. This is
just so I see it. And I just didapparently. Thank you, Alyssa.
We thank you.
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