July 13, 2025 • 27 mins
Wayne Kicklighter shares his 22-year journey of sobriety, from growing up with generational alcoholism to becoming a published author of a daily reflections book called "Peaceful Wisdom: Reflections on God, Life, and Recovery."
His transformation takes us through early party days, living a double life, hitting rock bottom, and ultimately finding a spiritual path to recovery and genuine self-discovery.
• Noticed alcoholic behavior in his family growing up, particularly his mother, who showed characteristics he later recognized in himself.
• Started drinking and doing drugs as a teenager to escape and fit in, becoming the "center of attention" for bringing party supplies.
• Worked as a bartender, feeding his ego with false security from "drinking buddies" rather than real friends.
• Lived a "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" double life, trying unsuccessfully to balance work with partying.
• Attempted repeatedly to "figure out how to live sober without giving up drinking" before truly surrendering.
• Experienced three phases of recovery: physical healing, mental transformation, and spiritual awakening.
• Found God in recovery after believing his actions were unforgivable and a relationship with God impossible.
• Wrote "Peaceful Wisdom" after retiring in 2021, sharing reflections from walking his dog and meditating.
• Started a YouTube channel, Peaceful Wisdom - God, Life, and Recovery - YouTube, featuring weekly videos on reflections from his book.
Find Wayne's book "Peaceful Wisdom: Reflections on God, Life, and Recovery on Amazon or follow his YouTube channel @Peaceful Wiz for weekly reflections.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Sober
Living Stories podcast.
Meet Wayne Kicklighter.
Today he is going to share hispersonal story.
He has 22 years, clean andsober.
He just published a dailyreflections book called Peaceful
Wisdom Reflections on God, lifeand Recovery.
Welcome, wayne.
Welcome to the show today.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You know, if you could just start back as far
back as you would like to sharewith listeners and take us to
the present day, it'd be great,okay.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, since I've been sober now 22 years and as I
reflect back on my upbringing, Idid notice growing up that
aren't there was a lot ofdrinking on in my family.
Mother as I've gotten olderit's clear to me was an
alcoholic and she was a lovingmother.
(00:53):
She took really good care of meand my brother, but there was
definitely episodes of drinkingthat I noticed early on.
I also feel like some of hercharacteristics of alcoholism
were very clear, like thefeeling less than not fitting in
, a little bit of depression,maybe even some insecurities
(01:13):
going on, and I can really seewhere some of those
characteristics were showing upin my own life.
As I got older I started toturn with the alcohol and drugs
as a way of escaping and fittingin with my classmates and my
friends in the neighborhood.
It started out probably withsneaking a cigarette here or
(01:35):
there, maybe a beer out of therefrigerator.
I loved camping out with theneighborhood boys because we
would be getting into mischiefat night and I seemed to be kind
of the center of attentionbecause I brought the party
favors at a very early age.
But it continued.
It continued as I got older andinto high school and then I
(01:55):
found myself really latching onto that mischief and that
alcohol and party scene morethan I did the academic scene.
So I started skipping school, Istarted to venture out and take
more and more chances, you know, as an adolescent.
And when I got my firstdriver's license, you know I was
(02:18):
hitting the road and I wasreally reaching out, I guess, to
something other than what I hadat home and what I had in my
day-to-day life, because I likedthat escape, I liked that
excitement, I liked being kindof, you know, in a danger zone
and it brought some attention tome.
(02:39):
You know, during those highschool years my parents moved
away to North Georgia, because Igrew up in Florida.
Back when I had just turned 18,they had announced that they
were moving to North Georgia andI said, well, have a good time
because I'm not going.
I was a surfer boy and I wasliving in Daytona Beach and I
wanted to keep that scene goingbecause I was having such a good
(03:04):
time.
I found a job at a bar, ofcourse, like any other good
alcohol, being a bartender andwaiting tables.
It not only helped me in mypopularity as a bartender and
waiter but it also fed that egothat I had and it kind of gave
me that false security that Ihad a bunch of friends.
If I'm honest with myself andas I look back now, they really
(03:27):
weren't friends, they were justdrinking buddies.
They were my party pals.
You know I was reallyconnecting this newfound group,
you know, as my posse, but theywere nothing more than just
enablers, they were really myparty people.
And that scene just got worse astime went on and then I found
myself getting into trouble withdrugs and I started finding
(03:49):
myself getting in trouble withthe law and I started to have
little episodes of this momentof clarity that something wasn't
right and that my drinking andmy drugging was really starting
to have an effect on my life andit was a negative effect.
It's kind of like and I'veheard this said in the rooms of
Alcoholics Anonymous and itreally describes me well I feel
(04:12):
like I went to a keg party at 16years old and I didn't leave
until I was 38 years old,because I love that feeling.
I was the guy that would go tothe party and I'm like, let's
keep going, we got to go to worktomorrow.
It's like, oh, we could.
You know we can still get acouple hours sleep.
You know, I was the one it was.
I was continuing the party evenafter the party was over and I
(04:35):
thought it was cute, I thoughtit was funny and it was at the
time.
But when I started becoming ayoung adult I started to realize
that I couldn't do the normaleveryday nine to five life and
have the party life.
But I tried.
The true, dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde,that I was, I did, I tried.
(04:58):
I'm like sure I can do this.
I can have a real job and stillkeep up the party scene.
It didn't work.
It really didn't work and aseries of mishaps and a series
of court dates and rehabs.
My poor family, they were therefor me all along.
You know, here I was, you know,a son of a loving family, but
(05:20):
yet here I was destroying mylife.
Now I mentioned my mother wasan alcoholic early on.
Well, mother got sober.
So you know, when I wasprobably in my mid 20s, my
mother had found recovery and soshe was already living a more
recovery life.
And I didn't know what recoverywas.
I didn't know what an alcoholicwas, I just knew that what was
(05:42):
happening in my life wasbecoming more and more
destructive.
Now, like any good alcoholic, Imean, for me there was a lot of
denial because I never reallylooked at the trouble that I got
into as tied directly to thedrugs and alcohol.
I always looked at it like, oh,I was in the wrong place at the
wrong time, or well, I shouldhave been speeding, or I
(06:03):
wouldn't have got that DUI, or Ishouldn't have went down that
road because I should have knownbetter, because that's where
the cops hang out.
There was all thisrationalization going on and
minimalization going on and itwas my way, I guess
subconsciously, to excuse myproblem.
It really was my ownsubconscious in denial.
(06:24):
So that continued for manyyears and as I started to get
older and I left the bar sceneand I was no longer a waiter and
a bartender and I went into areal job, I tried to really keep
it together and straddle thatfence and that's again where
that Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde comein, because it really was a way
(06:47):
of living a double life.
I could be Clark Kent nine tofive, you know, and then at
night I was the party animal,you know, I was the drunk, you
know, or it was really a doublelife that I was living.
Now, of course, at the time Ididn't see that and it did take
recovery to show me thoseaspects of my behavior early on.
(07:10):
And that's what's really coolabout the Rooms of Alcoholics
Anonymous and 12 Steps isbecause for me, when I finally
did get sober, I was able toreflect back on that person I
was, you know, before I gotsober.
But to fast forward, jessica, Iwas able to maintain that double
life for a while, but itstarted to catch up with me and
(07:33):
it was starting to become harderto live.
You know the double life andunfortunately I'd like to tell
you that I chose the normal nineto five life over my drinking
and drugging life.
But that's not how the storygoes.
I ended up finding myselflosing the jobs and I found
myself staying at the bars andhanging with the people that
(07:56):
were still partying, and thatbecame my vocal point.
And the older I got and the morethat I did that, the more my
life just kind of spun out ofcontrol and I found myself
homeless.
I found myself, you know, thefamily had finally exhausted all
of their resources and thattough love had to come into play
(08:17):
and they stopped enabling meand bailing me out and trying to
help me.
And I found myself at thatturning point in my life where I
had to make a decision and Ifell to my knees and I prayed
out to the God of myunderstanding.
I knew there was a God theresomewhere and I asked for his
strength and mercy because I haddecided I didn't want to live
(08:38):
that life anymore.
And with that I was able to getback on my feet, find the rooms
of Alcoholics Anonymous, findthe rooms of Narcotics Anonymous
, and started working on myselffrom the inside out, one step at
a time.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, yeah you said so many great things, double
life.
That's just exhausting and wethink it's normal to just get up
, go to work and then, you know,do our life in the evening and
such, but it's just so muchharder.
So what would you say tosomebody listening who is maybe
experiencing that right now?
And when you put that down andstart to live honestly, how much
(09:17):
easier is that Like, how muchmore peaceful is that to live
authentically?
You?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Well, what I would tell the listeners and what kept
me in and out of the rooms forso long is I was trying to
figure a way for me to livesober without giving up drinking
.
You know, I was trying tofigure out how I could pull
drugs and alcohol into arecovery program, because it
(09:42):
wasn't the drinking and thedrugging per se in my own mind,
it was the fact that I justhadn't learned how to do both
and that I needed to slow down,or I needed to not drink as much
, or maybe I could drink but notdo drugs, or maybe I could just
do it on the weekends.
So I would tell the listeners acouple of things.
(10:03):
One you can't do both.
I tried, unsuccessfully.
And number two, I would saystop trying to figure out how to
and just surrender to theprogram and lean into the 12
steps and the way in which theAlcoholics Anonymous program was
designed many, many years ago.
(10:25):
Because I tried to figure itout.
You know, I tried to be unique.
I suffered from that uniqueness.
You know, maybe that would workfor you, but that won't work
for me.
Or maybe you're an alcoholic,but I'm not really one.
I just drank a little too much.
I kept trying all these otherways to explain it away, you
(10:47):
know, or pretend it away insteadof just surrendering to it.
And I had a sponsor one time.
Tell me, because you know Iwent in with this, this ego and
this, I know more than you doand you know I'm different.
And he just said give it 90days, wayne, give it 90 days.
And if you don't find lookingfor in these rooms because I
(11:10):
knew or he knew, that if I gaveit 90 days that something would
happen, there would be atransformation in my thinking if
I could stay sober long enough.
And he was right, maybe I'm notan alcoholic, maybe I am an
alcoholic, maybe I'm not.
And I would just go back andforth.
And he said well, wayne, forsomeone who's not an alcoholic,
you sure do think about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Right, yeah, you said drugs and know drugs and
alcohol for you.
Oftentimes I hear people say,well, I'm really, my problem is
drugs so I can drink.
So what would you speak to dofor total abstinence for people
who don't understand that partof it, for the true alcoholic?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah Well, I've often said I was born an alcoholic
but I grew up to be a drugaddict because it was in my DNA,
you know it was.
It was the allergy that theprogram teaches us that we have
an allergy to alcohol.
You know, alcohol, it's anallergic reaction.
So I had to look at both.
(12:09):
Alcohol is a drug, you knowit's a mind altering substance,
and drugs are mind alteringsubstances.
Both are dangerous for Wayne.
And the other thing that I hadto come to realize, to the
realization, is that at thebottom of every drink for me was
a bag of dope.
(12:30):
Funny, it's like now that youknow I'm sober and I look back
on these behaviors.
It was like if I said, well,I'm just going to lay off the
drugs and I'm just going todrink, well, once I got drunk
and I crossed over into thatdrunkness, I wanted to get high,
I wanted to buy drugs, I wantedthat party to continue.
I would revert back to thatsame 19-year-old guy that says,
(12:52):
hey, let's continue the party.
Even the next morning I wentback to those old behaviors
because it was embedded into myDNA, that allergic reaction.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
You talked about that progression into getting in
trouble with the law.
You realize it's not reallyabout the drugs and the alcohol
in particular.
It's about inside your insidealcohol in particular.
It's about you know inside yourinside.
So, yes, take that out andcompletely abstinent from that,
never can safely drink again.
However, you are not destinedfor this like completely
(13:25):
miserable life, because there'sa complete transformation, like
that internal reorganizationthat you were talking about.
Like had to happen within those90 days, or some people it
takes a year, or you know a year, or it's a lifelong process,
but when that happens, you learnso much about yourself that you
almost wouldn't want to go back, and so can you talk about that
.
When recovery started to take ahold for you, how did you start
(13:49):
to see things differently?
What were you seeingdifferently?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Well, there's a physical, there is an emotional
or mental and then there's thespiritual.
So there's like three phases ofrecovery.
So for me, the first phase wasjust the physical.
I started to physically feelbetter.
I didn't have a headache, Ididn't have the jitters, I
didn't have this feeling of whatdid I do last night I hope no
(14:17):
one saw me.
You know there was a physicalhealing and then there was the
mental, when I started to workwith a sponsor and work through
the 12 steps and started to lookat myself and being in the
rooms of the 12 step recoveryprograms.
You know it's a form ofchanging our thinking.
(14:37):
You know we hear in the roomsour stinking thinking.
You know I had to change mystinking thinking and the only
way to do that is to be moreexposed to other recovering
alcoholics and drug addicts andalso surrounding my steps.
So my thinking, and then thebonus prize and all that is, I
(14:58):
bumped into God.
That was that spiritualawakening that it talks about,
that spiritual awakening andfinding out that it's not only a
God of my understanding butit's a God who understands me.
You know, I used to think theGod was this judging God and
that everything that I did wasunforgivable and I would never,
(15:20):
never, never be able to have arelationship with a God.
But the rooms of recoverytaught me that I could, because
because I was a drunk and a drugaddict didn't mean that I
wasn't also a child of God.
And I found that in the rooms ofAlcoholics Anonymous also a
child of God.
And I found that in the roomsof Alcoholics Anonymous.
You know, there's a saying thatsays I ran so far from God that
I ran into him in the rooms ofAA, and it's so true I bumped
(15:44):
right into him.
It's like oh, there you are,you know, and he was sitting
there going.
Well, it's about time you gothere.
I've been waiting for you.
So your question about whathappened and what did I find in
recovery?
It's that I found who I was andthat shy, insecure, broken boy
(16:06):
so early on in life, forwhatever reason, who felt like
he didn't fit in with anybody orany place or anything, started
to realize that this guy wasn'tso bad after all and I started
to dig into those 12 steps andstarted to get to know myself
once and for all.
I had covered myself up for solong with alcohol and drugs.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I didn't know who I was.
Yeah, covered up is a good wayto put it.
You know, covered up, it's sotrue.
And I don't know if you knowwell Sandy Beach.
You know he's a speaker who'ssince passed, but he used to say
you know, spirituality is aprocess of removal, not addition
.
So you said covered them up.
You know it's like when we getin there, you start working on
(16:49):
yourself, start removing allthose false ideas and beliefs or
things that you tacked on oralong the way, you know, to get
to who you truly are.
So that's such a good way toput it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So what would you say to someone who's listening, who
you know they're about to comein?
We're talking here today aboutthe 12-step recovery, and a lot
of people get well through 12steps and some don't.
They try other things.
One of the greatest things thatI love about 12-step recovery
is that you can come from anybackground or faith and you're
(17:25):
welcome, and they leave thatspace for you to realize who God
is to you, and even people thathaven't had any history of
knowing who God is come in andlearn how to pray and get into a
relationship with Him, ifthat's how it goes for them.
So what would you say ifsomeone didn't have a
relationship with God and wasabout to walk in?
(17:47):
How does that go with the steps?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And that's a good question and I love in the big
book of Alcoholics Anonymous andI don't know exactly how it's
quoted, but it says you know, ifyou can't explain electricity
or how physics work and how theins and outs of electrons, then
how can you begin to explain God?
(18:10):
It's funny how we try toexplain God in some humanistic
way and he's much bigger thanthat.
I was too busy trying to putGod into Wayne's little box of
understanding instead of justletting God be God and Wayne be
Wayne, because God doesn't needme to supervise him and he
(18:34):
certainly doesn't need to listento me either.
And I found early on when Istopped trying to manage God and
just accept that he exists.
God doesn't have to listen tome.
So I stopped trying to dictatethe rules to God.
And when I did that?
Because the gifts of thisprogram it is peace and it is
(18:57):
serenity and it is love and itis that calmness that we feel in
these rooms, and those are allgifts of the program, but
they're also gifts that comefrom God.
I would just say show up, leaninto the process and you're
suddenly will show up, becausethat's what happened to me.
God showed up in my lifesuddenly, not when I was ready,
(19:20):
not when I wanted him to, butwhen he was ready.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, so you've written this book A Peaceful
Wisdom Reflections on God, lifeand Recovery.
So what prompted you?
Did you always want to write abook?
Or was this just something thatcame out of 22 years you
wanting to share?
So could you talk about thatprocess and what it's about?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I had the colorful life, needless to say, and they
had seen me kind of destroy mylife and then rebuild it again,
and then destroy my life andthen rebuild it again.
I retired in 2021 and I movedto North Georgia from Florida
(20:02):
and I got a standard poodle dogand I built a house because the
gifts of the program allowed meto stay sober long enough that I
could rebuild my life againfrom the ground up and save a
little money and build a littleretirement for myself.
And then these long walks inthe morning with my dog and
meditating with God, I startedto be inspired to write a
(20:27):
reflections book, kind of whatthe program teaches us one day
at a time, and I called my bookPeaceful Wisdom Reflections on
God, life and Recovery, becausemy reflections started to become
more than just my recoveryreflections.
They started to becomereflections of my life, lessons
(20:48):
learned, things I learned frommy family, things that I learned
from great managers in mycareer.
They started to become lessonsI learned on my own by bumping
my head a few, too many timesand the reflections on God.
So God, life and recovery becamemy inspiration to write the
book.
(21:08):
So I sat down here in my diningroom and I started with one
reflection at a time.
So that's really what inspiredme was just that spirit of peace
in my life and looking backover my journey and putting it
on paper, and that was a reallygood healing for me too, because
Peaceful Wisdom is a dailyreflections book, but when you
(21:31):
read the book, you see that it'sreally my life story about.
Yeah, instead of writing astory of my life, I wrote a
reflections book that told thestory of my life one reflection
at a time, and I used God, lifeand recovery as my backdrop to
tell that story.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I love that.
One of the best ways to startmy morning is to read a
reflection, a daily reflectionor a devotional.
Where can they buy PeacefulWisdom, Reflections on God, Life
and Recovery?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, so they can find it on Amazon.
And if you search PeacefulWisdom in the search bar or my
author name, jw Kicklighter, Igo by Wayne, but my full name is
James Wayne Kicklighter, so theauthor name is JW Kicklighter.
Peaceful Wisdom.
In the search bar you mighteven find it under meditations
(22:24):
or reflections on amazoncom.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
But you know it takes a certain person to go through
all of that and then decide toshare it with the world.
You know you're sharing yourinsides with other people,
because I think there's a lot ofvalue in that, where people can
learn from or just grab some ofthat wisdom or that
spirituality that you have, thatthey may not have yet or just,
you know, accent theirs out.
(22:48):
So I love the idea of areflections book.
I think that that's great.
I can't wait to read it.
I'm definitely going topurchase it.
I'm going to put it in the shownotes and I'll put the link
right to the Amazon link.
So if anybody would like topurchase it, who's listening?
Just go into the show notes andclick on that, and I'd love to
have you on again likefuturistically.
Are you planning to write anyother books, or is this maybe
(23:11):
something that you just did onetime?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Well, I am thinking about another book Now.
This one, as you know, calledPeaceful Wisdom, really talks
about the peaceful, calm, serenelife of a recovering alcoholic.
But my next life may be gettingmore into the raw details.
I'm going to call it recklessliving.
So that'll be the next lifewhere we get a little bit more
(23:35):
behind the scenes.
Maybe that's the book mynephews wanted me to write all
along.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
They'll have two, though.
They'll have two versions.
Yeah, no, that's good.
Everybody likes to see behindthe scenes at what happened.
It's amazing how many differentlives we've actually lived,
right.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Exactly, and there's a reflection in the book that
talks about nine lives.
You know, and I really feellike for myself, I lived more
than those nine lives.
You know, I've surpassed a catat this time.
I've lived more lives than theyhave.
By the mercy and grace of ahigher power and a God of my
(24:13):
understanding, you know, I'vebeen able to kind of survive
those dangerous years, if youwill Sure, you know so I had to
protect myself from me.
I mean, that's who God has beenprotecting me from is myself,
you know, with my own selfdestruction.
Now, the other place, jessica,they can find me is I started a
(24:34):
YouTube channel and it's atPeaceful Wiz U-I-Z.
Oh, great, oh.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, and I'm doing a weekly video and I'm taking
reflections out of the book eachweek, or a topic out of the
book, and then we talk aboutthat during the YouTube.
It's more of a pre-recordedmessage kind of as I see it,
kind of my own interpretation.
Folks can dial in to YouTube onat PeacefulWiz if they want to
(25:02):
look at some of the previousvideos.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Great, great.
I'll put that down there aswell, so they can reach you that
way.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Great.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, I thank you so much for coming on.
22 years clean and sober issuch an accomplishment and it
seems like your life has beencompletely changed.
And congratulations on yourbook, on getting it out there,
and would you have one piece ofwisdom to leave somebody who's
trying to get this right.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I'm glad you asked that question because I thought
about it before this call or thepodcast.
I thought about it that getused to not knowing Because you
know for so long I wanted toknow the answers and I wanted to
know the outcome and whathappens at the end.
So, instead of trying to figureout all of those answers, just
(25:51):
surrender to not knowing andjust know that it does.
Oh, I love that Not knowing howit works, just knowing that it
does.
So that would be my advice.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I love that.
Yeah, it really delays you.
I got caught up on trying tofigure things out for a long
time, making timelines and whendid this happen and when did
that happen and why?
And I love that advice, it'sperfect.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Right, and why is the sponsor telling me to do this?
Or why do I have to read thatparagraph telling me to do this?
Or why, why do I have to readthat paragraph?
And why do I need to go to 90meetings in 90 days?
You know all of thosesuggestions and I always tried
to figure out why, why, why, why, why.
And really all I needed to dois just do it.
You know, there a friend ofmine says you know, we've heard
(26:37):
this in the rooms, let go andlet God.
You've heard that before.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
She says let go or be dragged.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Definitely, heard that before.
So if you don't let, go.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
he's going to drag you there one way or another, so
let go?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Exactly, you know.
It reminded me just.
Lastly, you know for a lot ofpeople and I think it says it in
the book of AlcoholicsAnonymous that it's a spiritual
answer and a program of action.
So you talked about thespiritual answer and then you
said don't ask why, just do.
And I think if you put thataction behind it, people are
going to have incredible results, regardless of what way they
(27:15):
want to come in.
So yeah, once again, I thankyou so much for being here and I
really congratulate you on yourbook and you have a really
powerful message.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Well, thank.
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Sober
Living Stories podcast.
Meet Wayne Kicklighter.
Today he is going to share hispersonal story.
He has 22 years, clean andsober.
He just published a dailyreflections book called Peaceful
Wisdom Reflections on God, lifeand Recovery.
Welcome, wayne.
Welcome to the show today.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You know, if you could just start back as far
back as you would like to sharewith listeners and take us to
the present day, it'd be great,okay.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, since I've been sober now 22 years and as I
reflect back on my upbringing, Idid notice growing up that
aren't there was a lot ofdrinking on in my family.
Mother as I've gotten olderit's clear to me was an
alcoholic and she was a lovingmother.
(00:53):
She took really good care of meand my brother, but there was
definitely episodes of drinkingthat I noticed early on.
I also feel like some of hercharacteristics of alcoholism
were very clear, like thefeeling less than not fitting in
, a little bit of depression,maybe even some insecurities
(01:13):
going on, and I can really seewhere some of those
characteristics were showing upin my own life.
As I got older I started toturn with the alcohol and drugs
as a way of escaping and fittingin with my classmates and my
friends in the neighborhood.
It started out probably withsneaking a cigarette here or
(01:35):
there, maybe a beer out of therefrigerator.
I loved camping out with theneighborhood boys because we
would be getting into mischiefat night and I seemed to be kind
of the center of attentionbecause I brought the party
favors at a very early age.
But it continued.
It continued as I got older andinto high school and then I
(01:55):
found myself really latching onto that mischief and that
alcohol and party scene morethan I did the academic scene.
So I started skipping school, Istarted to venture out and take
more and more chances, you know, as an adolescent.
And when I got my firstdriver's license, you know I was
(02:18):
hitting the road and I wasreally reaching out, I guess, to
something other than what I hadat home and what I had in my
day-to-day life, because I likedthat escape, I liked that
excitement, I liked being kindof, you know, in a danger zone
and it brought some attention tome.
(02:39):
You know, during those highschool years my parents moved
away to North Georgia, because Igrew up in Florida.
Back when I had just turned 18,they had announced that they
were moving to North Georgia andI said, well, have a good time
because I'm not going.
I was a surfer boy and I wasliving in Daytona Beach and I
wanted to keep that scene goingbecause I was having such a good
(03:04):
time.
I found a job at a bar, ofcourse, like any other good
alcohol, being a bartender andwaiting tables.
It not only helped me in mypopularity as a bartender and
waiter but it also fed that egothat I had and it kind of gave
me that false security that Ihad a bunch of friends.
If I'm honest with myself andas I look back now, they really
(03:27):
weren't friends, they were justdrinking buddies.
They were my party pals.
You know I was reallyconnecting this newfound group,
you know, as my posse, but theywere nothing more than just
enablers, they were really myparty people.
And that scene just got worse astime went on and then I found
myself getting into trouble withdrugs and I started finding
(03:49):
myself getting in trouble withthe law and I started to have
little episodes of this momentof clarity that something wasn't
right and that my drinking andmy drugging was really starting
to have an effect on my life andit was a negative effect.
It's kind of like and I'veheard this said in the rooms of
Alcoholics Anonymous and itreally describes me well I feel
(04:12):
like I went to a keg party at 16years old and I didn't leave
until I was 38 years old,because I love that feeling.
I was the guy that would go tothe party and I'm like, let's
keep going, we got to go to worktomorrow.
It's like, oh, we could.
You know we can still get acouple hours sleep.
You know, I was the one it was.
I was continuing the party evenafter the party was over and I
(04:35):
thought it was cute, I thoughtit was funny and it was at the
time.
But when I started becoming ayoung adult I started to realize
that I couldn't do the normaleveryday nine to five life and
have the party life.
But I tried.
The true, dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde,that I was, I did, I tried.
(04:58):
I'm like sure I can do this.
I can have a real job and stillkeep up the party scene.
It didn't work.
It really didn't work and aseries of mishaps and a series
of court dates and rehabs.
My poor family, they were therefor me all along.
You know, here I was, you know,a son of a loving family, but
(05:20):
yet here I was destroying mylife.
Now I mentioned my mother wasan alcoholic early on.
Well, mother got sober.
So you know, when I wasprobably in my mid 20s, my
mother had found recovery and soshe was already living a more
recovery life.
And I didn't know what recoverywas.
I didn't know what an alcoholicwas, I just knew that what was
(05:42):
happening in my life wasbecoming more and more
destructive.
Now, like any good alcoholic, Imean, for me there was a lot of
denial because I never reallylooked at the trouble that I got
into as tied directly to thedrugs and alcohol.
I always looked at it like, oh,I was in the wrong place at the
wrong time, or well, I shouldhave been speeding, or I
(06:03):
wouldn't have got that DUI, or Ishouldn't have went down that
road because I should have knownbetter, because that's where
the cops hang out.
There was all thisrationalization going on and
minimalization going on and itwas my way, I guess
subconsciously, to excuse myproblem.
It really was my ownsubconscious in denial.
(06:24):
So that continued for manyyears and as I started to get
older and I left the bar sceneand I was no longer a waiter and
a bartender and I went into areal job, I tried to really keep
it together and straddle thatfence and that's again where
that Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde comein, because it really was a way
(06:47):
of living a double life.
I could be Clark Kent nine tofive, you know, and then at
night I was the party animal,you know, I was the drunk, you
know, or it was really a doublelife that I was living.
Now, of course, at the time Ididn't see that and it did take
recovery to show me thoseaspects of my behavior early on.
(07:10):
And that's what's really coolabout the Rooms of Alcoholics
Anonymous and 12 Steps isbecause for me, when I finally
did get sober, I was able toreflect back on that person I
was, you know, before I gotsober.
But to fast forward, jessica, Iwas able to maintain that double
life for a while, but itstarted to catch up with me and
(07:33):
it was starting to become harderto live.
You know the double life andunfortunately I'd like to tell
you that I chose the normal nineto five life over my drinking
and drugging life.
But that's not how the storygoes.
I ended up finding myselflosing the jobs and I found
myself staying at the bars andhanging with the people that
(07:56):
were still partying, and thatbecame my vocal point.
And the older I got and the morethat I did that, the more my
life just kind of spun out ofcontrol and I found myself
homeless.
I found myself, you know, thefamily had finally exhausted all
of their resources and thattough love had to come into play
(08:17):
and they stopped enabling meand bailing me out and trying to
help me.
And I found myself at thatturning point in my life where I
had to make a decision and Ifell to my knees and I prayed
out to the God of myunderstanding.
I knew there was a God theresomewhere and I asked for his
strength and mercy because I haddecided I didn't want to live
(08:38):
that life anymore.
And with that I was able to getback on my feet, find the rooms
of Alcoholics Anonymous, findthe rooms of Narcotics Anonymous
, and started working on myselffrom the inside out, one step at
a time.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, yeah you said so many great things, double
life.
That's just exhausting and wethink it's normal to just get up
, go to work and then, you know,do our life in the evening and
such, but it's just so muchharder.
So what would you say tosomebody listening who is maybe
experiencing that right now?
And when you put that down andstart to live honestly, how much
(09:17):
easier is that Like, how muchmore peaceful is that to live
authentically?
You?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Well, what I would tell the listeners and what kept
me in and out of the rooms forso long is I was trying to
figure a way for me to livesober without giving up drinking
.
You know, I was trying tofigure out how I could pull
drugs and alcohol into arecovery program, because it
(09:42):
wasn't the drinking and thedrugging per se in my own mind,
it was the fact that I justhadn't learned how to do both
and that I needed to slow down,or I needed to not drink as much
, or maybe I could drink but notdo drugs, or maybe I could just
do it on the weekends.
So I would tell the listeners acouple of things.
(10:03):
One you can't do both.
I tried, unsuccessfully.
And number two, I would saystop trying to figure out how to
and just surrender to theprogram and lean into the 12
steps and the way in which theAlcoholics Anonymous program was
designed many, many years ago.
(10:25):
Because I tried to figure itout.
You know, I tried to be unique.
I suffered from that uniqueness.
You know, maybe that would workfor you, but that won't work
for me.
Or maybe you're an alcoholic,but I'm not really one.
I just drank a little too much.
I kept trying all these otherways to explain it away, you
(10:47):
know, or pretend it away insteadof just surrendering to it.
And I had a sponsor one time.
Tell me, because you know Iwent in with this, this ego and
this, I know more than you doand you know I'm different.
And he just said give it 90days, wayne, give it 90 days.
And if you don't find lookingfor in these rooms because I
(11:10):
knew or he knew, that if I gaveit 90 days that something would
happen, there would be atransformation in my thinking if
I could stay sober long enough.
And he was right, maybe I'm notan alcoholic, maybe I am an
alcoholic, maybe I'm not.
And I would just go back andforth.
And he said well, wayne, forsomeone who's not an alcoholic,
you sure do think about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Right, yeah, you said drugs and know drugs and
alcohol for you.
Oftentimes I hear people say,well, I'm really, my problem is
drugs so I can drink.
So what would you speak to dofor total abstinence for people
who don't understand that partof it, for the true alcoholic?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah Well, I've often said I was born an alcoholic
but I grew up to be a drugaddict because it was in my DNA,
you know it was.
It was the allergy that theprogram teaches us that we have
an allergy to alcohol.
You know, alcohol, it's anallergic reaction.
So I had to look at both.
(12:09):
Alcohol is a drug, you knowit's a mind altering substance,
and drugs are mind alteringsubstances.
Both are dangerous for Wayne.
And the other thing that I hadto come to realize, to the
realization, is that at thebottom of every drink for me was
a bag of dope.
(12:30):
Funny, it's like now that youknow I'm sober and I look back
on these behaviors.
It was like if I said, well,I'm just going to lay off the
drugs and I'm just going todrink, well, once I got drunk
and I crossed over into thatdrunkness, I wanted to get high,
I wanted to buy drugs, I wantedthat party to continue.
I would revert back to thatsame 19-year-old guy that says,
(12:52):
hey, let's continue the party.
Even the next morning I wentback to those old behaviors
because it was embedded into myDNA, that allergic reaction.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
You talked about that progression into getting in
trouble with the law.
You realize it's not reallyabout the drugs and the alcohol
in particular.
It's about inside your insidealcohol in particular.
It's about you know inside yourinside.
So, yes, take that out andcompletely abstinent from that,
never can safely drink again.
However, you are not destinedfor this like completely
(13:25):
miserable life, because there'sa complete transformation, like
that internal reorganizationthat you were talking about.
Like had to happen within those90 days, or some people it
takes a year, or you know a year, or it's a lifelong process,
but when that happens, you learnso much about yourself that you
almost wouldn't want to go back, and so can you talk about that
.
When recovery started to take ahold for you, how did you start
(13:49):
to see things differently?
What were you seeingdifferently?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Well, there's a physical, there is an emotional
or mental and then there's thespiritual.
So there's like three phases ofrecovery.
So for me, the first phase wasjust the physical.
I started to physically feelbetter.
I didn't have a headache, Ididn't have the jitters, I
didn't have this feeling of whatdid I do last night I hope no
(14:17):
one saw me.
You know there was a physicalhealing and then there was the
mental, when I started to workwith a sponsor and work through
the 12 steps and started to lookat myself and being in the
rooms of the 12 step recoveryprograms.
You know it's a form ofchanging our thinking.
(14:37):
You know we hear in the roomsour stinking thinking.
You know I had to change mystinking thinking and the only
way to do that is to be moreexposed to other recovering
alcoholics and drug addicts andalso surrounding my steps.
So my thinking, and then thebonus prize and all that is, I
(14:58):
bumped into God.
That was that spiritualawakening that it talks about,
that spiritual awakening andfinding out that it's not only a
God of my understanding butit's a God who understands me.
You know, I used to think theGod was this judging God and
that everything that I did wasunforgivable and I would never,
(15:20):
never, never be able to have arelationship with a God.
But the rooms of recoverytaught me that I could, because
because I was a drunk and a drugaddict didn't mean that I
wasn't also a child of God.
And I found that in the rooms ofAlcoholics Anonymous also a
child of God.
And I found that in the roomsof Alcoholics Anonymous.
You know, there's a saying thatsays I ran so far from God that
I ran into him in the rooms ofAA, and it's so true I bumped
(15:44):
right into him.
It's like oh, there you are,you know, and he was sitting
there going.
Well, it's about time you gothere.
I've been waiting for you.
So your question about whathappened and what did I find in
recovery?
It's that I found who I was andthat shy, insecure, broken boy
(16:06):
so early on in life, forwhatever reason, who felt like
he didn't fit in with anybody orany place or anything, started
to realize that this guy wasn'tso bad after all and I started
to dig into those 12 steps andstarted to get to know myself
once and for all.
I had covered myself up for solong with alcohol and drugs.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I didn't know who I was.
Yeah, covered up is a good wayto put it.
You know, covered up, it's sotrue.
And I don't know if you knowwell Sandy Beach.
You know he's a speaker who'ssince passed, but he used to say
you know, spirituality is aprocess of removal, not addition
.
So you said covered them up.
You know it's like when we getin there, you start working on
(16:49):
yourself, start removing allthose false ideas and beliefs or
things that you tacked on oralong the way, you know, to get
to who you truly are.
So that's such a good way toput it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So what would you say to someone who's listening, who
you know they're about to comein?
We're talking here today aboutthe 12-step recovery, and a lot
of people get well through 12steps and some don't.
They try other things.
One of the greatest things thatI love about 12-step recovery
is that you can come from anybackground or faith and you're
(17:25):
welcome, and they leave thatspace for you to realize who God
is to you, and even people thathaven't had any history of
knowing who God is come in andlearn how to pray and get into a
relationship with Him, ifthat's how it goes for them.
So what would you say ifsomeone didn't have a
relationship with God and wasabout to walk in?
(17:47):
How does that go with the steps?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And that's a good question and I love in the big
book of Alcoholics Anonymous andI don't know exactly how it's
quoted, but it says you know, ifyou can't explain electricity
or how physics work and how theins and outs of electrons, then
how can you begin to explain God?
(18:10):
It's funny how we try toexplain God in some humanistic
way and he's much bigger thanthat.
I was too busy trying to putGod into Wayne's little box of
understanding instead of justletting God be God and Wayne be
Wayne, because God doesn't needme to supervise him and he
(18:34):
certainly doesn't need to listento me either.
And I found early on when Istopped trying to manage God and
just accept that he exists.
God doesn't have to listen tome.
So I stopped trying to dictatethe rules to God.
And when I did that?
Because the gifts of thisprogram it is peace and it is
(18:57):
serenity and it is love and itis that calmness that we feel in
these rooms, and those are allgifts of the program, but
they're also gifts that comefrom God.
I would just say show up, leaninto the process and you're
suddenly will show up, becausethat's what happened to me.
God showed up in my lifesuddenly, not when I was ready,
(19:20):
not when I wanted him to, butwhen he was ready.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, so you've written this book A Peaceful
Wisdom Reflections on God, lifeand Recovery.
So what prompted you?
Did you always want to write abook?
Or was this just something thatcame out of 22 years you
wanting to share?
So could you talk about thatprocess and what it's about?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I had the colorful life, needless to say, and they
had seen me kind of destroy mylife and then rebuild it again,
and then destroy my life andthen rebuild it again.
I retired in 2021 and I movedto North Georgia from Florida
(20:02):
and I got a standard poodle dogand I built a house because the
gifts of the program allowed meto stay sober long enough that I
could rebuild my life againfrom the ground up and save a
little money and build a littleretirement for myself.
And then these long walks inthe morning with my dog and
meditating with God, I startedto be inspired to write a
(20:27):
reflections book, kind of whatthe program teaches us one day
at a time, and I called my bookPeaceful Wisdom Reflections on
God, life and Recovery, becausemy reflections started to become
more than just my recoveryreflections.
They started to becomereflections of my life, lessons
(20:48):
learned, things I learned frommy family, things that I learned
from great managers in mycareer.
They started to become lessonsI learned on my own by bumping
my head a few, too many timesand the reflections on God.
So God, life and recovery becamemy inspiration to write the
book.
(21:08):
So I sat down here in my diningroom and I started with one
reflection at a time.
So that's really what inspiredme was just that spirit of peace
in my life and looking backover my journey and putting it
on paper, and that was a reallygood healing for me too, because
Peaceful Wisdom is a dailyreflections book, but when you
(21:31):
read the book, you see that it'sreally my life story about.
Yeah, instead of writing astory of my life, I wrote a
reflections book that told thestory of my life one reflection
at a time, and I used God, lifeand recovery as my backdrop to
tell that story.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I love that.
One of the best ways to startmy morning is to read a
reflection, a daily reflectionor a devotional.
Where can they buy PeacefulWisdom, Reflections on God, Life
and Recovery?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, so they can find it on Amazon.
And if you search PeacefulWisdom in the search bar or my
author name, jw Kicklighter, Igo by Wayne, but my full name is
James Wayne Kicklighter, so theauthor name is JW Kicklighter.
Peaceful Wisdom.
In the search bar you mighteven find it under meditations
(22:24):
or reflections on amazoncom.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
But you know it takes a certain person to go through
all of that and then decide toshare it with the world.
You know you're sharing yourinsides with other people,
because I think there's a lot ofvalue in that, where people can
learn from or just grab some ofthat wisdom or that
spirituality that you have, thatthey may not have yet or just,
you know, accent theirs out.
(22:48):
So I love the idea of areflections book.
I think that that's great.
I can't wait to read it.
I'm definitely going topurchase it.
I'm going to put it in the shownotes and I'll put the link
right to the Amazon link.
So if anybody would like topurchase it, who's listening?
Just go into the show notes andclick on that, and I'd love to
have you on again likefuturistically.
Are you planning to write anyother books, or is this maybe
(23:11):
something that you just did onetime?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Well, I am thinking about another book Now.
This one, as you know, calledPeaceful Wisdom, really talks
about the peaceful, calm, serenelife of a recovering alcoholic.
But my next life may be gettingmore into the raw details.
I'm going to call it recklessliving.
So that'll be the next lifewhere we get a little bit more
(23:35):
behind the scenes.
Maybe that's the book mynephews wanted me to write all
along.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
They'll have two, though.
They'll have two versions.
Yeah, no, that's good.
Everybody likes to see behindthe scenes at what happened.
It's amazing how many differentlives we've actually lived,
right.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Exactly, and there's a reflection in the book that
talks about nine lives.
You know, and I really feellike for myself, I lived more
than those nine lives.
You know, I've surpassed a catat this time.
I've lived more lives than theyhave.
By the mercy and grace of ahigher power and a God of my
(24:13):
understanding, you know, I'vebeen able to kind of survive
those dangerous years, if youwill Sure, you know so I had to
protect myself from me.
I mean, that's who God has beenprotecting me from is myself,
you know, with my own selfdestruction.
Now, the other place, jessica,they can find me is I started a
(24:34):
YouTube channel and it's atPeaceful Wiz U-I-Z.
Oh, great, oh.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, and I'm doing a weekly video and I'm taking
reflections out of the book eachweek, or a topic out of the
book, and then we talk aboutthat during the YouTube.
It's more of a pre-recordedmessage kind of as I see it,
kind of my own interpretation.
Folks can dial in to YouTube onat PeacefulWiz if they want to
(25:02):
look at some of the previousvideos.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Great, great.
I'll put that down there aswell, so they can reach you that
way.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Great.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, I thank you so much for coming on.
22 years clean and sober issuch an accomplishment and it
seems like your life has beencompletely changed.
And congratulations on yourbook, on getting it out there,
and would you have one piece ofwisdom to leave somebody who's
trying to get this right.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I'm glad you asked that question because I thought
about it before this call or thepodcast.
I thought about it that getused to not knowing Because you
know for so long I wanted toknow the answers and I wanted to
know the outcome and whathappens at the end.
So, instead of trying to figureout all of those answers, just
(25:51):
surrender to not knowing andjust know that it does.
Oh, I love that Not knowing howit works, just knowing that it
does.
So that would be my advice.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I love that.
Yeah, it really delays you.
I got caught up on trying tofigure things out for a long
time, making timelines and whendid this happen and when did
that happen and why?
And I love that advice, it'sperfect.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Right, and why is the sponsor telling me to do this?
Or why do I have to read thatparagraph telling me to do this?
Or why, why do I have to readthat paragraph?
And why do I need to go to 90meetings in 90 days?
You know all of thosesuggestions and I always tried
to figure out why, why, why, why, why.
And really all I needed to dois just do it.
You know, there a friend ofmine says you know, we've heard
(26:37):
this in the rooms, let go andlet God.
You've heard that before.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
She says let go or be dragged.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Definitely, heard that before.
So if you don't let, go.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
he's going to drag you there one way or another, so
let go?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Exactly, you know.
It reminded me just.
Lastly, you know for a lot ofpeople and I think it says it in
the book of AlcoholicsAnonymous that it's a spiritual
answer and a program of action.
So you talked about thespiritual answer and then you
said don't ask why, just do.
And I think if you put thataction behind it, people are
going to have incredible results, regardless of what way they
(27:15):
want to come in.
So yeah, once again, I thankyou so much for being here and I
really congratulate you on yourbook and you have a really
powerful message.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Well, thank.
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