November 17, 2025 • 22 mins
Jerremy Alexander Newsome and Dave Conley dive into the fiery debate on gun ownership in America, unpacking cultural divides between urban and rural views on firearms. They spotlight gun violence stats, where suicides—especially among veterans—dominate, tying into a broader mental health emergency. Comparing firearm deaths to heart disease and car accidents, they call for balanced regulations and holistic public health approaches, pushing informed fixes that tackle both gun control and emotional well-being.
Timestamps:
- (00:00) Introduction and Setting the Stage
- (00:46) Trigger Warning: Guns in America
- (01:59) Cultural Perspectives on Gun Ownership
- (03:06) Statistics and Public Health Concerns
- (03:47) Personal Experiences with Guns
- (05:59) Gun Ownership for Defense and Hobby
- (12:33) Mental Health and Gun Violence
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jerremy (00:00):
Here we go.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are back.
Another episode, another great amountof time together to discuss something
that many people find valuable.
Many people find importantand many people find.
What's the word, Dave?
Debatable.
It's in conversation.
Dave (00:21):
I think it's
Jerremy (00:21):
It comes up
Dave (00:22):
I think it's just scary for folks, like it's either, just like
super scary or I don't want to hear it.
Yeah.
What would you say I, I, not debatable'cause a lot of things are debatable, but
what do you think the vibe is on this?
Jerremy (00:34):
Yeah, abrasive, right?
It's yeah, Grumpy's a good one.
Dave (00:39):
nobody goes, yay.
Jerremy (00:41):
I think the, yeah, I think the title of this per,
is perfect Trigger warning.
We're talking Guns in America, folks.
That's what we're diving into.
Dave (00:50):
Guns, and more guns.
Jerremy (00:52):
And I think really to just have this discussion openly and just
talk about pros, cons as it buildsinto, as always, my ultimate thesis,
which is keeping our school safe and.
Education reform in America.
Most importantly, make America rich.
Make America happy, vibrant, and healthy.
(01:13):
Do all those things youmake America wealthy.
But looking at this from a perspectiveof, I will absolutely be fully
aware that I don't think that thesecond amendment's ever gonna be
changed or like massively ratified.
So I'm gonna go down that route.
Kinda freedom of speech,you're owning your guns.
Got it.
High fives all around.
(01:33):
Alright.
Dave (01:34):
but, but all the, all of those rights in there are also have limits.
I'm very much like afree speech absolutist.
And even when I'm an absolutist,I'm like yeah, there are certain
things you're like, ah, like wegotta pump the brakes on some of it.
So every single one of thoserights in that constitution has
a, an interpretation around them.
I think that this discussion,particularly on guns, is one where
(01:56):
it's okay, so where are these laws?
Where are these lines?
Where are all these, where, andthat's why I was saying, Hey, this
is a scary topic because there are,certainly plenty of people in that I've
known that, that grew up with guns.
It's like a no brainer.
It's not something they even think about.
And then there are people who grewup like me in big city suburbs
where it's no one had a gun.
(02:17):
It's and it was foreign.
And it took, me having to have people inmy life and learning about weapons and
getting familiar and comfortable around'em because I wanted to be familiar and
comfortable around them before I was like,oh, okay, yeah, these are not a big deal.
But I think a large segment of thepopulation are in, are in that realm.
Realm of, I don't know whatthey are, but they scare me.
Jerremy (02:38):
Yep.
Makes sense, man.
Firearms in the United States ofAmerica embody a big core tension
Dave (02:46):
Yeah.
Jerremy (02:47):
between, like we're talking about right now, constitutional rights,
and then you have, self-defense.
Then you have what you mentioned,cultural traditions of ownership.
Dave (02:57):
Yeah.
Jerremy (02:58):
And then what about sport RK hunting?
Are you gonna hunt with bow and arrow?
How you gonna hunt?
And then heritage of like how peoplegrew up and what we've been doing.
And then you have, what about allthe significant public health risks?
Because it, I guess these numbersaren't gonna be exact, exact what?
They're pre dang close over the lasttwo years, 44,000 deaths in the us.
(03:21):
A hundred thousand injuries.
And of those 44,000deaths, 62% is suicide.
Dave (03:30):
Yeah I, that deserves like its own discussion.
So can we put a pin in thatand come back around to that?
Jerremy (03:35):
Yeah
Dave (03:36):
that was like a big piece of this.
All right we could do it now if youwant to take a little bit of a side
Jerremy (03:40):
it's I think it's a number that many people don't know or
haven't heard about, that's for sure.
That's a big one, man.
Dave (03:47):
I think I wanted to roll back, like I, I grew up in those suburbs, right?
So it was unusual.
It wasn't crazy to have guns.
Like there, my, myfamily did not own guns.
But we had friends who did, and theywere hunting enthusiasts, right?
Like they, I grew up in Virginia, so backwhen I was growing up, you could, you
could roll out like, a 45 minute driveand you're out in the middle of nowhere
(04:07):
and you are definitely hunting deer.
So that was pretty common.
But you grew up in adifferent part of the world.
You did, you grow up aroundguns and hunting and ownership.
Was that different for you?
Jerremy (04:19):
Yep.
Every day
Dave (04:20):
Yeah.
Jerremy (04:20):
it was all around me.
It was very normal.
It was quite open.
Most people or most families that Iknow had one and yeah, we would hunt.
It wasn't necessarily likespecifically you had to hunt to live.
Wasn't that, although I guess itkinda depends on the week every
now and then, but ultimately, yeah.
(04:42):
Very common.
Have 'em in the back ofyour truck, have 'em in your
vehicles, have 'em in your house.
And it was something thatpeople had to talk about, right?
Gun safety.
My dad actually cared a lot about it.
One of the things he told me andtaught me it was, every gun is loaded.
Dave (04:56):
Yeah.
Jerremy (04:57):
one thing, you gotta, every single gun, if you see it,
you assume that it's not onlyloaded, but it has a round in it.
That's how you have to treat it, evenif you know that it's not, 'cause you
put it, you know you're holding it.
It's nope.
Consider it to be loaded so youdon't point it at anybody ever.
You don't pull the trigger everunless you're fully 100% ready for the
(05:19):
repercussions of that trigger pulling.
And it was just a, yeah, itwas a conversation that we had,
man, pretty, probably once amonth as I was a younger boy.
And then he would, we would dotarget practice and we would
shoot squirrels, with a 22 rifle.
And then we would start doing biggertarget practice and we'd go out into
fields and man, during Thanksgivingand different holidays when a lot of
(05:43):
the family was around, it was extremelycommon for everyone to go get their
shotgun or their pistol or their 22.
And we would all just do targetpractice and see who had the best shot.
Dave (05:52):
So what was the flavor of gun ownership?
What I'm hearing is targetpractice and some hunting.
So it was hobbyists and hunting.
Was there an aspect of also defenseor safety around it as well, or less
Jerremy (06:03):
yeah, they're always.
Is for people.
Like I have pini of very pro guns,friends and they will say that it's
for defense, but then they got 30 guns.
I'm like, okay, if it's for defense,we're gonna shoot all of them at once.
(06:26):
Who are you reallyprotecting yourself from?
And a lot of gun owners, not all ofthem, but there's definitely a percentage
that's probably more than 20, that theyalways have this belief somewhere that
zombies civil war, something wild'sgonna break out and they're gonna be
prepared 'cause they got all the guns.
And I'm certainly not gonna say that'snot correct or it's not possible.
(06:49):
But there's always that flavorof, that's their self defense.
Their self defense is, they're gettingprepared for civil war or zombie outbreak.
Dave (06:57):
That, that came up in our research where 30% of the adults own
like most of the guns, so there's likea small handful of people that own
all of the guns, and then everybodyelse, has this, will have one gun,
it's 40% of all households have a gun.
And then of that, like a thirdof those own all the weapons.
Those are the guys that have 30 guns.
And I'm like, Hey, God bless you.
(07:19):
I so
Jerremy (07:20):
Yeah.
That's
Dave (07:22):
yeah.
I hear you on that.
I think, I think that there's, Ithink there's the hobbyists, right?
I think that there's theself-defense, which I think, you
know has some validity there.
They all have validity.
And then there's the the huntersand they all seem to be a little
bit, a little bit different.
Like if your main gig is hunting, that'sa very, like you do it every now and then.
(07:42):
And, but I, there's very muchan urban rural, God, there's
that word again, rural divide.
It wasn't until I moved to Coloradowhere I, almost everybody owned a
gun and no matter who they were,and it was really like, it was a
no brainer because it was a tool.
Jerremy (08:00):
Yeah.
Dave (08:01):
When you're in, when you're in a part of the world where it's you're not
gonna call the police and expect themto be there in under an hour or two,
you're going to be in areas where thereare large animals that do not like you
or if they're scared will really makeyou, really make you know how they feel.
And so there are, you just have it asa tool not to not for self-defense, not
(08:24):
for anything other than this is a tool.
I'm in an area it's the equivalentof, having an extra can of gas or
having a blanket in your trunk.
It's and you have a gun.
And that's really what it is becausewhen you need it, you definitely need it.
And they know when they need it.
Jerremy (08:39):
Yep.
Dave (08:39):
that's that urban, rural divide,
Jerremy (08:42):
yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely there.
And I think those are somereally interesting, statistics.
Here's a couple more.
You have of gun owners, 107million, adults who own guns?
Dave (08:57):
that's a lot of people.
Jerremy (08:59):
yeah, exactly.
A lot of people 43% of those are men.
22% are women.
Dave (09:04):
Fastest growing wom women are the fastest growing that came up.
Jerremy (09:08):
Yeah, I like that just makes sense statistically,
Dave (09:10):
yeah, it says overall female ownership holds it
20 to 25% as of last year.
But it's it's really beendriven by self-defense concerns.
Jerremy (09:19):
no, yeah.
Now here's a, I don't know, I thought itmaybe be a little bit less disparaging.
45% of Republicans, 20% Democrats.
Dave (09:30):
Yeah.
Jerremy (09:31):
Whoa.
Whoa.
Dave (09:33):
That's also saying that most republicans and most
Democrats also don't own guns.
That's another way of looking at it.
Jerremy (09:38):
Which is all no, but again, that's the disparity.
I would not have, I would've nothave guessed that your way I wouldn't
think that the majority of peoplewould not own guns in the US.
'cause you, when you talk about,when you talk about guns in general.
You feel like every singleperson is just pro army.
Like they got all the guns in the backpackand they just carry 'em around all day.
(09:59):
'cause it just fires people up andthey just get, so don't take my guns.
Like that's just how everyone feels.
Like it just feels that way whenyou post anything about this.
And we're gonna get tons of these commentsand tons of, that's gonna flood the
socials and the posts, which is greatand we wanna have these conversations.
But again, that's justan interesting number.
I just thought it would be a lot morefrom a percentage standpoint of people.
(10:24):
32% of adults own guns, whichis 107000040% of households.
Dave (10:28):
Which means 60% of
Jerremy (10:30):
don't exactly, it's a minority
Dave (10:32):
Like in every single demo, what,
Jerremy (10:36):
every demographic.
The majority doesn't own
Dave (10:38):
There's no, there's nothing to say.
This is a gun owner in the United States.
There is nothing that says,oh, that person's a gun owner.
Is it more likely ifyou are in a rural area?
Yeah.
But that's it.
That's the, that's,
Jerremy (10:51):
you're a, if you're a white Republican man who lives in a rural area,
Dave (10:56):
you're more, more likely than
Jerremy (10:58):
more likely, but
Dave (10:59):
but it's not a majority.
Jerremy (11:00):
advantage.
Yeah.
It's, it is still not a majority
Dave (11:02):
no.
Not at all.
Jerremy (11:03):
but that's wild if you think about it.
Dave (11:06):
Yeah, you think you, in your head you think, oh, that's a gun owner.
Nope.
You'd be surprised.
I, let's swing back to the what came upin the initial research of this because I
use a lot of AI and because we don't knowmuch about this other than how we grew up.
And I think we have an idea about whatthis is gonna be, but I was like, okay.
For for those listening to this wedo this big research thing and maybe
(11:27):
I'll do something different this time.
I'll actually put a link to ourresearch in the show notes so that
you can take a look at what we'relooking at and the first batch of.
Research I got was, I would describeit as very heavy on the, we've,
we've got to do something about this.
This is like the craziest thing ever.
It's like how, the United Statesis insane and we've gotta,
(11:48):
take away everybody's guns.
A little bit of an exaggeration,but not it was as strictly
through the lens of gun control.
I'm like, okay, I get it,that sounds reasonable.
It's something I've heard allmy life and it's like more guns,
more death and United States asan outlier as far as gun violence.
And I'm like, okay, great.
But then I read the researchand really dug into it.
(12:08):
And the thing that absolutelyblew me away was how we count
gun, quote unquote gun violence.
And yeah, there are 44,000 peopleevery year that die from a gun.
And that is a scourge.
And that is something that isan huge outlier in the world.
Like no other nation onthe planet has that kind.
(12:30):
None of them post those kind of numbers.
But the key here is one thing, 62%of those are suicides, and they
are suicides of men, and they aresuicides of men in rural areas.
So if if you are a man in a rural area andyou take your life, you do it by a gun.
(12:52):
So think about this, 62% of allguns, of that 44,000, meaning
27,600 of these are suicides.
And I'm like, okay, then suddenlywe're not talking about guns anymore
because, that's a whole differentdiscussion that we've gotta be having.
It's like when we're talking about quoteunquote gun control and lowering that
(13:13):
number that has nothing to do with gun andgun violence because, like men are going
to take their lives any way that they canclearly, but that's a mental health issue.
And none of the not one of the laws orregulations, none of them address the
main thing, which is mental health.
Now look, there's still 36% of thoseare homicide, which is $16,000.
(13:38):
$16,000, 16,000 people.
That is something that weshould be talking about.
But that is, those are completelydifferent strategies than we
have a clear mental healthproblem in the United States.
That is, is bonkers.
Jerremy (13:54):
You think you can fire up that AI and ask of those suicides?
How many are veterans?
Dave (13:59):
Oh geez.
I did.
Jerremy (14:01):
Because I would guesstimate that it's over 80%,
Dave (14:04):
Oh, for sure.
Jerremy (14:04):
Of the suicides that happened that 20,000 number, which is unfortunate
Dave (14:09):
Yeah.
73%.
73%.
Jerremy (14:12):
I said 80, right?
That's 73.
Dave (14:15):
This is what it is.
I'll just read this out, huh suicidesaccount for 62% of gun deaths.
The intersection ofmental health is nuanced.
Most individuals with mentalillness are not violent, and that
stigma can deter, help sinking.
Oh, here's something I didn't know.
There is something calledthe 9 8 8 Lifeline.
Have you heard of that?
(14:36):
Like we all know what 9 11 is in the United States.
It's hey, I need help right now.
There's also a 9 8 8, andthat's for suicide prevention.
So if you dialed 9, 8, 8, you areconnected to suicide prevention.
And I, that is I was this yearsold when I learned that we
actually have a 9, 8, 8 number.
So that's, that is somethingfor everybody to know.
If they're, if you're introuble, dial 9, 8, 8.
So yeah, for veterans, 73% of suicidesare firearms related for veterans.
(15:02):
And if you are a rural man facingisolation, peer led groups like
Walk the Talk America normalizesconversations and gun shops and ranges.
So like there is a, an, likethere is, there are veteran
advocate groups that we know.
They really want to scale up 9, 8, 8.
And ensure that it alsoaddresses these suicides with a
(15:23):
majority of them being veterans.
Bonkers.
Like a diff it's a totally differentconversation if we're talking about
veteran suicides, which is the most ofthis and not one of the laws that we're
talking about, as far as seize the weapons
Jerremy (15:36):
Ry is addressing
Dave (15:38):
is addressing that issue.
Like that, like we're talking so
Jerremy (15:41):
That's a monumental thing, man, because I, we're over here talking about
solving America's problems and here'sAmerica saying we have a gun problem.
Everyone's killing themselves.
Tons of people.
Like you can't walk down thestreets of Chicago without
getting shot at by a gang member.
That's not what the data says at all.
There is obviously, there, thereis murder in America and it's
(16:03):
always unfortunate, always.
It's never something thatI'd ever condone ever.
However, the majority of gundeaths are self-inflicted.
Dave (16:14):
Let's.
Let's also put it in perspective.
I'm not trying to minimize itbecause I'm I'm thinking, one of
our conversations that we're gonnahave are victims of gun violence.
That is a thing.
We were just at an event thislast weekend about, victims of gun
violence and it is heartbreaking
Now, 16,000 people.
That's nothing to sneeze at.
That is very serious.
(16:34):
Those are homicides.
That's 43 people a day, right?
43,
Jerremy (16:39):
Yep.
Dave (16:40):
Heart disease, that's 1800 people a day.
Look, we're not talking aboutdiet and exercise enough, but
we will talk a lot about guns.
Cancer is 1700 people a day.
Like we're not, screaming aboutsmoking bans and screenings.
108 people a day.
That is almost, two, almost two, two andtwo times more than two times than guns.
(17:05):
That's car crashes.
And we are not saying ban cars andwear your seatbelt and more airbags and
Jerremy (17:13):
or more control of who can drive and who can't.
Or stricter laws about driving.
I know that sounds wild and maybe thisis way off the beaten path and you know
how I am with my tangents and my rabbit
Dave (17:22):
yeah.
Jerremy (17:23):
I'd sign off on a bill tomorrow that said every car has
to have a breathalyzer in it.
You cannot drive.
I would sign off on that tomorrow.
Yeah, boo.
You wanna
You radical dictator
Dave (17:37):
boo.
Would it also scan for weed?
Would it be a weed weedly.
Jerremy (17:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any, anything that inhibitsyou from driving legally
Dave (17:47):
what your Tesla has all sorts of cameras on you
being like, you're distracted.
Should it be like, oh,you're a little boozy too.
Jerremy (17:53):
but you could have legal limits like this there.
The Georgia, or maybe not Georgia,Florida, I think Georgia's a zero
tolerance, but like Florida is like 0.08.
So you, you could have, you can havetwo beers and legally drive in Florida,
unless you're like a hundred pound person.
But that can be really easily created.
But here's the reasonI'm bringing that up.
(18:14):
Yes, guns is the hottest topic andif you go to Australia, which I
just came back from, or really anyother country, uk, South Africa.
Bali.
I'm trying to think of some otherplaces like, Canada, everyone's like
America's just, everyone's rockingaround with a gun, just shooting people.
(18:35):
That's the narrative.
The gun deaths, again, we'llalways preface, no one wants,
I don't want anyone to die,
Dave (18:41):
No.
Jerremy (18:43):
is one of the lowest categories of humans passing away by a magnitude.
Dave (18:52):
is, we're down in the shark attack category.
Jerremy (18:56):
Yeah.
Sharks and hippos and dogs and guns.
Like those four.
Dave (19:03):
do get injured.
That is like a
Jerremy (19:05):
Yeah.
A hundred thousand people.
A hundred thousand people a
Dave (19:08):
that's a lot.
And so we're not saying that weshouldn't be doing something.
We're
Jerremy (19:12):
dude, that many people probably get injured from fireworks.
Fire up Chad.
GPT, ask, it's probably a hundred thousandpeople get injured by fireworks also.
So those are just people thatshouldn't own guns, right?
Those are people that should have to gothrough some type of screening protocol.
I'm, for as conservative as I am, whichis not massively conservative, I'm just a
little bit more conservative than you are.
that's but that's okay.
We're on the spectrums.
(19:32):
We have conversations about,that's what's amazing.
The realization is I'm actually prettyfor yeah, we should not only should we
have stricter laws around guns and whocan own them, by the way, mentally, right?
Who should go in and get checks andget, Hey, yep, you can still have a gun.
I feel like you're perfectly okay.
I feel like you don'thave a bunch of anxiety.
I feel like you're not depressed.
(19:53):
We feel like you're in a healthyplace where you can own some guns.
Like Dave, I love you.
I'd let you have all kinds of guns.
I can have all kinds of guns.
Like I don't battle depression.
I don't battle anxiety personally.
And so I really never, ever will fallinto that category where I feel not
safe around guns personally, however.
I also would sign off on the, let's makecars so much more of a topic, because
(20:21):
that has way more implications thangun deaths and is way more dangerous.
And there's way more people, howhard is it to get a driver's license?
And a car can do more damagegenerally than a gun can.
Dave (20:37):
Yeah,
Jerremy (20:39):
That's ter man I, hold on one, one jerk of the steering
wheel and 10 people are massivelyaffected for the rest of your life.
One little slip up with your arm, youget a, you get something, ha whatever.
One jerk of the steering wheel, boom.
Tons and tons of peopleare affected negatively.
And if you are under the influenceand you damage or kill someone,
(21:02):
you are going to prison, right?
Dave (21:05):
we've we know them.
Jerremy (21:06):
We know them.
We met them, we've talked to them.
You will go to prison if you injureor kill someone in a car, if you're
under the influence and shoot, even ifyou're not under the influence you're
gonna go to court and the prosecutor'sgonna really push for something.
So the reason that I think I'mbringing up and you're bringing up
in such a ve way is we aren't reallydiscussing when people just go off
(21:27):
of this, on this gun flip out we needto have such crazy, strict protocols.
I'm like, we can increase those protocolsand I'm actually for it because the
people that need it, they can, badpeople are gonna get guns no matter what.
We, no, no matter what policies wecreate, bad people will do bad things.
You can have whatever strict policyyou want, they're gonna go get
guns illegally and they're gonnago try to hurt people illegally.
(21:50):
But they can do that with planes,they can do that with cars.
They can do all kinds of things.
And heart disease killing 1800 people aday and cancer killing 1700 people a day.
That's 4,000 people a day relativeto four to 40 people a day.
That's 100 times more People every day diefrom things that no one's talking about
(22:13):
in an aggressive format on social media.
Dave (22:16):
No
Jerremy (22:17):
those are the stats people.
Dave (22:18):
And it's, and it's a highly specific problem, and we
want simple, large solutions.
Alex (22:27):
Jerremy shares his rural upbringing around guns as tools and
traditions, while Dave contrasts hissuburban view where they felt foreign.
But if ownership divides us sosharply, what happens when regulations
try to bridge that gap—next?
Here we go.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are back.
Another episode, another great amountof time together to discuss something
that many people find valuable.
Many people find importantand many people find.
What's the word, Dave?
Debatable.
It's in conversation.
Dave (00:21):
I think it's
Jerremy (00:21):
It comes up
Dave (00:22):
I think it's just scary for folks, like it's either, just like
super scary or I don't want to hear it.
Yeah.
What would you say I, I, not debatable'cause a lot of things are debatable, but
what do you think the vibe is on this?
Jerremy (00:34):
Yeah, abrasive, right?
It's yeah, Grumpy's a good one.
Dave (00:39):
nobody goes, yay.
Jerremy (00:41):
I think the, yeah, I think the title of this per,
is perfect Trigger warning.
We're talking Guns in America, folks.
That's what we're diving into.
Dave (00:50):
Guns, and more guns.
Jerremy (00:52):
And I think really to just have this discussion openly and just
talk about pros, cons as it buildsinto, as always, my ultimate thesis,
which is keeping our school safe and.
Education reform in America.
Most importantly, make America rich.
Make America happy, vibrant, and healthy.
(01:13):
Do all those things youmake America wealthy.
But looking at this from a perspectiveof, I will absolutely be fully
aware that I don't think that thesecond amendment's ever gonna be
changed or like massively ratified.
So I'm gonna go down that route.
Kinda freedom of speech,you're owning your guns.
Got it.
High fives all around.
(01:33):
Alright.
Dave (01:34):
but, but all the, all of those rights in there are also have limits.
I'm very much like afree speech absolutist.
And even when I'm an absolutist,I'm like yeah, there are certain
things you're like, ah, like wegotta pump the brakes on some of it.
So every single one of thoserights in that constitution has
a, an interpretation around them.
I think that this discussion,particularly on guns, is one where
(01:56):
it's okay, so where are these laws?
Where are these lines?
Where are all these, where, andthat's why I was saying, Hey, this
is a scary topic because there are,certainly plenty of people in that I've
known that, that grew up with guns.
It's like a no brainer.
It's not something they even think about.
And then there are people who grewup like me in big city suburbs
where it's no one had a gun.
(02:17):
It's and it was foreign.
And it took, me having to have people inmy life and learning about weapons and
getting familiar and comfortable around'em because I wanted to be familiar and
comfortable around them before I was like,oh, okay, yeah, these are not a big deal.
But I think a large segment of thepopulation are in, are in that realm.
Realm of, I don't know whatthey are, but they scare me.
Jerremy (02:38):
Yep.
Makes sense, man.
Firearms in the United States ofAmerica embody a big core tension
Dave (02:46):
Yeah.
Jerremy (02:47):
between, like we're talking about right now, constitutional rights,
and then you have, self-defense.
Then you have what you mentioned,cultural traditions of ownership.
Dave (02:57):
Yeah.
Jerremy (02:58):
And then what about sport RK hunting?
Are you gonna hunt with bow and arrow?
How you gonna hunt?
And then heritage of like how peoplegrew up and what we've been doing.
And then you have, what about allthe significant public health risks?
Because it, I guess these numbersaren't gonna be exact, exact what?
They're pre dang close over the lasttwo years, 44,000 deaths in the us.
(03:21):
A hundred thousand injuries.
And of those 44,000deaths, 62% is suicide.
Dave (03:30):
Yeah I, that deserves like its own discussion.
So can we put a pin in thatand come back around to that?
Jerremy (03:35):
Yeah
Dave (03:36):
that was like a big piece of this.
All right we could do it now if youwant to take a little bit of a side
Jerremy (03:40):
it's I think it's a number that many people don't know or
haven't heard about, that's for sure.
That's a big one, man.
Dave (03:47):
I think I wanted to roll back, like I, I grew up in those suburbs, right?
So it was unusual.
It wasn't crazy to have guns.
Like there, my, myfamily did not own guns.
But we had friends who did, and theywere hunting enthusiasts, right?
Like they, I grew up in Virginia, so backwhen I was growing up, you could, you
could roll out like, a 45 minute driveand you're out in the middle of nowhere
(04:07):
and you are definitely hunting deer.
So that was pretty common.
But you grew up in adifferent part of the world.
You did, you grow up aroundguns and hunting and ownership.
Was that different for you?
Jerremy (04:19):
Yep.
Every day
Dave (04:20):
Yeah.
Jerremy (04:20):
it was all around me.
It was very normal.
It was quite open.
Most people or most families that Iknow had one and yeah, we would hunt.
It wasn't necessarily likespecifically you had to hunt to live.
Wasn't that, although I guess itkinda depends on the week every
now and then, but ultimately, yeah.
(04:42):
Very common.
Have 'em in the back ofyour truck, have 'em in your
vehicles, have 'em in your house.
And it was something thatpeople had to talk about, right?
Gun safety.
My dad actually cared a lot about it.
One of the things he told me andtaught me it was, every gun is loaded.
Dave (04:56):
Yeah.
Jerremy (04:57):
one thing, you gotta, every single gun, if you see it,
you assume that it's not onlyloaded, but it has a round in it.
That's how you have to treat it, evenif you know that it's not, 'cause you
put it, you know you're holding it.
It's nope.
Consider it to be loaded so youdon't point it at anybody ever.
You don't pull the trigger everunless you're fully 100% ready for the
(05:19):
repercussions of that trigger pulling.
And it was just a, yeah, itwas a conversation that we had,
man, pretty, probably once amonth as I was a younger boy.
And then he would, we would dotarget practice and we would
shoot squirrels, with a 22 rifle.
And then we would start doing biggertarget practice and we'd go out into
fields and man, during Thanksgivingand different holidays when a lot of
(05:43):
the family was around, it was extremelycommon for everyone to go get their
shotgun or their pistol or their 22.
And we would all just do targetpractice and see who had the best shot.
Dave (05:52):
So what was the flavor of gun ownership?
What I'm hearing is targetpractice and some hunting.
So it was hobbyists and hunting.
Was there an aspect of also defenseor safety around it as well, or less
Jerremy (06:03):
yeah, they're always.
Is for people.
Like I have pini of very pro guns,friends and they will say that it's
for defense, but then they got 30 guns.
I'm like, okay, if it's for defense,we're gonna shoot all of them at once.
(06:26):
Who are you reallyprotecting yourself from?
And a lot of gun owners, not all ofthem, but there's definitely a percentage
that's probably more than 20, that theyalways have this belief somewhere that
zombies civil war, something wild'sgonna break out and they're gonna be
prepared 'cause they got all the guns.
And I'm certainly not gonna say that'snot correct or it's not possible.
(06:49):
But there's always that flavorof, that's their self defense.
Their self defense is, they're gettingprepared for civil war or zombie outbreak.
Dave (06:57):
That, that came up in our research where 30% of the adults own
like most of the guns, so there's likea small handful of people that own
all of the guns, and then everybodyelse, has this, will have one gun,
it's 40% of all households have a gun.
And then of that, like a thirdof those own all the weapons.
Those are the guys that have 30 guns.
And I'm like, Hey, God bless you.
(07:19):
I so
Jerremy (07:20):
Yeah.
That's
Dave (07:22):
yeah.
I hear you on that.
I think, I think that there's, Ithink there's the hobbyists, right?
I think that there's theself-defense, which I think, you
know has some validity there.
They all have validity.
And then there's the the huntersand they all seem to be a little
bit, a little bit different.
Like if your main gig is hunting, that'sa very, like you do it every now and then.
(07:42):
And, but I, there's very muchan urban rural, God, there's
that word again, rural divide.
It wasn't until I moved to Coloradowhere I, almost everybody owned a
gun and no matter who they were,and it was really like, it was a
no brainer because it was a tool.
Jerremy (08:00):
Yeah.
Dave (08:01):
When you're in, when you're in a part of the world where it's you're not
gonna call the police and expect themto be there in under an hour or two,
you're going to be in areas where thereare large animals that do not like you
or if they're scared will really makeyou, really make you know how they feel.
And so there are, you just have it asa tool not to not for self-defense, not
(08:24):
for anything other than this is a tool.
I'm in an area it's the equivalentof, having an extra can of gas or
having a blanket in your trunk.
It's and you have a gun.
And that's really what it is becausewhen you need it, you definitely need it.
And they know when they need it.
Jerremy (08:39):
Yep.
Dave (08:39):
that's that urban, rural divide,
Jerremy (08:42):
yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely there.
And I think those are somereally interesting, statistics.
Here's a couple more.
You have of gun owners, 107million, adults who own guns?
Dave (08:57):
that's a lot of people.
Jerremy (08:59):
yeah, exactly.
A lot of people 43% of those are men.
22% are women.
Dave (09:04):
Fastest growing wom women are the fastest growing that came up.
Jerremy (09:08):
Yeah, I like that just makes sense statistically,
Dave (09:10):
yeah, it says overall female ownership holds it
20 to 25% as of last year.
But it's it's really beendriven by self-defense concerns.
Jerremy (09:19):
no, yeah.
Now here's a, I don't know, I thought itmaybe be a little bit less disparaging.
45% of Republicans, 20% Democrats.
Dave (09:30):
Yeah.
Jerremy (09:31):
Whoa.
Whoa.
Dave (09:33):
That's also saying that most republicans and most
Democrats also don't own guns.
That's another way of looking at it.
Jerremy (09:38):
Which is all no, but again, that's the disparity.
I would not have, I would've nothave guessed that your way I wouldn't
think that the majority of peoplewould not own guns in the US.
'cause you, when you talk about,when you talk about guns in general.
You feel like every singleperson is just pro army.
Like they got all the guns in the backpackand they just carry 'em around all day.
(09:59):
'cause it just fires people up andthey just get, so don't take my guns.
Like that's just how everyone feels.
Like it just feels that way whenyou post anything about this.
And we're gonna get tons of these commentsand tons of, that's gonna flood the
socials and the posts, which is greatand we wanna have these conversations.
But again, that's justan interesting number.
I just thought it would be a lot morefrom a percentage standpoint of people.
(10:24):
32% of adults own guns, whichis 107000040% of households.
Dave (10:28):
Which means 60% of
Jerremy (10:30):
don't exactly, it's a minority
Dave (10:32):
Like in every single demo, what,
Jerremy (10:36):
every demographic.
The majority doesn't own
Dave (10:38):
There's no, there's nothing to say.
This is a gun owner in the United States.
There is nothing that says,oh, that person's a gun owner.
Is it more likely ifyou are in a rural area?
Yeah.
But that's it.
That's the, that's,
Jerremy (10:51):
you're a, if you're a white Republican man who lives in a rural area,
Dave (10:56):
you're more, more likely than
Jerremy (10:58):
more likely, but
Dave (10:59):
but it's not a majority.
Jerremy (11:00):
advantage.
Yeah.
It's, it is still not a majority
Dave (11:02):
no.
Not at all.
Jerremy (11:03):
but that's wild if you think about it.
Dave (11:06):
Yeah, you think you, in your head you think, oh, that's a gun owner.
Nope.
You'd be surprised.
I, let's swing back to the what came upin the initial research of this because I
use a lot of AI and because we don't knowmuch about this other than how we grew up.
And I think we have an idea about whatthis is gonna be, but I was like, okay.
For for those listening to this wedo this big research thing and maybe
(11:27):
I'll do something different this time.
I'll actually put a link to ourresearch in the show notes so that
you can take a look at what we'relooking at and the first batch of.
Research I got was, I would describeit as very heavy on the, we've,
we've got to do something about this.
This is like the craziest thing ever.
It's like how, the United Statesis insane and we've gotta,
(11:48):
take away everybody's guns.
A little bit of an exaggeration,but not it was as strictly
through the lens of gun control.
I'm like, okay, I get it,that sounds reasonable.
It's something I've heard allmy life and it's like more guns,
more death and United States asan outlier as far as gun violence.
And I'm like, okay, great.
But then I read the researchand really dug into it.
(12:08):
And the thing that absolutelyblew me away was how we count
gun, quote unquote gun violence.
And yeah, there are 44,000 peopleevery year that die from a gun.
And that is a scourge.
And that is something that isan huge outlier in the world.
Like no other nation onthe planet has that kind.
(12:30):
None of them post those kind of numbers.
But the key here is one thing, 62%of those are suicides, and they
are suicides of men, and they aresuicides of men in rural areas.
So if if you are a man in a rural area andyou take your life, you do it by a gun.
(12:52):
So think about this, 62% of allguns, of that 44,000, meaning
27,600 of these are suicides.
And I'm like, okay, then suddenlywe're not talking about guns anymore
because, that's a whole differentdiscussion that we've gotta be having.
It's like when we're talking about quoteunquote gun control and lowering that
(13:13):
number that has nothing to do with gun andgun violence because, like men are going
to take their lives any way that they canclearly, but that's a mental health issue.
And none of the not one of the laws orregulations, none of them address the
main thing, which is mental health.
Now look, there's still 36% of thoseare homicide, which is $16,000.
(13:38):
$16,000, 16,000 people.
That is something that weshould be talking about.
But that is, those are completelydifferent strategies than we
have a clear mental healthproblem in the United States.
That is, is bonkers.
Jerremy (13:54):
You think you can fire up that AI and ask of those suicides?
How many are veterans?
Dave (13:59):
Oh geez.
I did.
Jerremy (14:01):
Because I would guesstimate that it's over 80%,
Dave (14:04):
Oh, for sure.
Jerremy (14:04):
Of the suicides that happened that 20,000 number, which is unfortunate
Dave (14:09):
Yeah.
73%.
73%.
Jerremy (14:12):
I said 80, right?
That's 73.
Dave (14:15):
This is what it is.
I'll just read this out, huh suicidesaccount for 62% of gun deaths.
The intersection ofmental health is nuanced.
Most individuals with mentalillness are not violent, and that
stigma can deter, help sinking.
Oh, here's something I didn't know.
There is something calledthe 9 8 8 Lifeline.
Have you heard of that?
(14:36):
Like we all know what 9 11 is in the United States.
It's hey, I need help right now.
There's also a 9 8 8, andthat's for suicide prevention.
So if you dialed 9, 8, 8, you areconnected to suicide prevention.
And I, that is I was this yearsold when I learned that we
actually have a 9, 8, 8 number.
So that's, that is somethingfor everybody to know.
If they're, if you're introuble, dial 9, 8, 8.
So yeah, for veterans, 73% of suicidesare firearms related for veterans.
(15:02):
And if you are a rural man facingisolation, peer led groups like
Walk the Talk America normalizesconversations and gun shops and ranges.
So like there is a, an, likethere is, there are veteran
advocate groups that we know.
They really want to scale up 9, 8, 8.
And ensure that it alsoaddresses these suicides with a
(15:23):
majority of them being veterans.
Bonkers.
Like a diff it's a totally differentconversation if we're talking about
veteran suicides, which is the most ofthis and not one of the laws that we're
talking about, as far as seize the weapons
Jerremy (15:36):
Ry is addressing
Dave (15:38):
is addressing that issue.
Like that, like we're talking so
Jerremy (15:41):
That's a monumental thing, man, because I, we're over here talking about
solving America's problems and here'sAmerica saying we have a gun problem.
Everyone's killing themselves.
Tons of people.
Like you can't walk down thestreets of Chicago without
getting shot at by a gang member.
That's not what the data says at all.
There is obviously, there, thereis murder in America and it's
(16:03):
always unfortunate, always.
It's never something thatI'd ever condone ever.
However, the majority of gundeaths are self-inflicted.
Dave (16:14):
Let's.
Let's also put it in perspective.
I'm not trying to minimize itbecause I'm I'm thinking, one of
our conversations that we're gonnahave are victims of gun violence.
That is a thing.
We were just at an event thislast weekend about, victims of gun
violence and it is heartbreaking
Now, 16,000 people.
That's nothing to sneeze at.
That is very serious.
(16:34):
Those are homicides.
That's 43 people a day, right?
43,
Jerremy (16:39):
Yep.
Dave (16:40):
Heart disease, that's 1800 people a day.
Look, we're not talking aboutdiet and exercise enough, but
we will talk a lot about guns.
Cancer is 1700 people a day.
Like we're not, screaming aboutsmoking bans and screenings.
108 people a day.
That is almost, two, almost two, two andtwo times more than two times than guns.
(17:05):
That's car crashes.
And we are not saying ban cars andwear your seatbelt and more airbags and
Jerremy (17:13):
or more control of who can drive and who can't.
Or stricter laws about driving.
I know that sounds wild and maybe thisis way off the beaten path and you know
how I am with my tangents and my rabbit
Dave (17:22):
yeah.
Jerremy (17:23):
I'd sign off on a bill tomorrow that said every car has
to have a breathalyzer in it.
You cannot drive.
I would sign off on that tomorrow.
Yeah, boo.
You wanna
You radical dictator
Dave (17:37):
boo.
Would it also scan for weed?
Would it be a weed weedly.
Jerremy (17:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any, anything that inhibitsyou from driving legally
Dave (17:47):
what your Tesla has all sorts of cameras on you
being like, you're distracted.
Should it be like, oh,you're a little boozy too.
Jerremy (17:53):
but you could have legal limits like this there.
The Georgia, or maybe not Georgia,Florida, I think Georgia's a zero
tolerance, but like Florida is like 0.08.
So you, you could have, you can havetwo beers and legally drive in Florida,
unless you're like a hundred pound person.
But that can be really easily created.
But here's the reasonI'm bringing that up.
(18:14):
Yes, guns is the hottest topic andif you go to Australia, which I
just came back from, or really anyother country, uk, South Africa.
Bali.
I'm trying to think of some otherplaces like, Canada, everyone's like
America's just, everyone's rockingaround with a gun, just shooting people.
(18:35):
That's the narrative.
The gun deaths, again, we'llalways preface, no one wants,
I don't want anyone to die,
Dave (18:41):
No.
Jerremy (18:43):
is one of the lowest categories of humans passing away by a magnitude.
Dave (18:52):
is, we're down in the shark attack category.
Jerremy (18:56):
Yeah.
Sharks and hippos and dogs and guns.
Like those four.
Dave (19:03):
do get injured.
That is like a
Jerremy (19:05):
Yeah.
A hundred thousand people.
A hundred thousand people a
Dave (19:08):
that's a lot.
And so we're not saying that weshouldn't be doing something.
We're
Jerremy (19:12):
dude, that many people probably get injured from fireworks.
Fire up Chad.
GPT, ask, it's probably a hundred thousandpeople get injured by fireworks also.
So those are just people thatshouldn't own guns, right?
Those are people that should have to gothrough some type of screening protocol.
I'm, for as conservative as I am, whichis not massively conservative, I'm just a
little bit more conservative than you are.
that's but that's okay.
We're on the spectrums.
(19:32):
We have conversations about,that's what's amazing.
The realization is I'm actually prettyfor yeah, we should not only should we
have stricter laws around guns and whocan own them, by the way, mentally, right?
Who should go in and get checks andget, Hey, yep, you can still have a gun.
I feel like you're perfectly okay.
I feel like you don'thave a bunch of anxiety.
I feel like you're not depressed.
(19:53):
We feel like you're in a healthyplace where you can own some guns.
Like Dave, I love you.
I'd let you have all kinds of guns.
I can have all kinds of guns.
Like I don't battle depression.
I don't battle anxiety personally.
And so I really never, ever will fallinto that category where I feel not
safe around guns personally, however.
I also would sign off on the, let's makecars so much more of a topic, because
(20:21):
that has way more implications thangun deaths and is way more dangerous.
And there's way more people, howhard is it to get a driver's license?
And a car can do more damagegenerally than a gun can.
Dave (20:37):
Yeah,
Jerremy (20:39):
That's ter man I, hold on one, one jerk of the steering
wheel and 10 people are massivelyaffected for the rest of your life.
One little slip up with your arm, youget a, you get something, ha whatever.
One jerk of the steering wheel, boom.
Tons and tons of peopleare affected negatively.
And if you are under the influenceand you damage or kill someone,
(21:02):
you are going to prison, right?
Dave (21:05):
we've we know them.
Jerremy (21:06):
We know them.
We met them, we've talked to them.
You will go to prison if you injureor kill someone in a car, if you're
under the influence and shoot, even ifyou're not under the influence you're
gonna go to court and the prosecutor'sgonna really push for something.
So the reason that I think I'mbringing up and you're bringing up
in such a ve way is we aren't reallydiscussing when people just go off
(21:27):
of this, on this gun flip out we needto have such crazy, strict protocols.
I'm like, we can increase those protocolsand I'm actually for it because the
people that need it, they can, badpeople are gonna get guns no matter what.
We, no, no matter what policies wecreate, bad people will do bad things.
You can have whatever strict policyyou want, they're gonna go get
guns illegally and they're gonnago try to hurt people illegally.
(21:50):
But they can do that with planes,they can do that with cars.
They can do all kinds of things.
And heart disease killing 1800 people aday and cancer killing 1700 people a day.
That's 4,000 people a day relativeto four to 40 people a day.
That's 100 times more People every day diefrom things that no one's talking about
(22:13):
in an aggressive format on social media.
Dave (22:16):
No
Jerremy (22:17):
those are the stats people.
Dave (22:18):
And it's, and it's a highly specific problem, and we
want simple, large solutions.
Alex (22:27):
Jerremy shares his rural upbringing around guns as tools and
traditions, while Dave contrasts hissuburban view where they felt foreign.
But if ownership divides us sosharply, what happens when regulations
try to bridge that gap—next?
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