America's Voting Crisis: Fraud Fears, Gerrymandering, and the Path to Real Reform

Jerremy and Dave explore civic duty as a virtue, spotlighting guest Tyler's take on voting as personal integrity and Rob Richie's push for ranked choice voting. They dissect why many—especially youth—skip elections, proposing bold shifts like making voting "cool," mandatory participation, incentives, and a national holiday to transform apathy into action and amplify every voice in democracy.

Timestamps:

• (00:00) Reflections: Barriers and Hopes for Voting Reform
• (06:31) Voter Apathy: Unpacking Why People Skip Elections
• (09:49) Impact Factor: The Real Power of Individual Votes
• (10:32) Electoral College Critique: Weighing Its Role Today
• (13:11) Engagement Boost: Ideas to Make Voting Accessible and Fun

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Episode Transcript

Dave (00:00):
And here we are.

Jerremy (00:02):
Yes.
kickoff to ballot box number three,
Rethinking Who Votes in America.
That was fun.
Everyone.

Dave (00:13):
We say that every time.
That was fun.

Jerremy (00:15):
Yeah.
Everyone loves our wrap-ups.
The, what did we learn?
Where did we go?
What did we study?
Who did we hear from?

Dave (00:23):
Yeah,

Jerremy (00:24):
And I felt like we did a really unique job of spraying this
up over many weeks, many days,

Dave (00:32):
we did.

Jerremy (00:32):
many months.
Hear, hearing from differentpeople, hearing different thoughts,
hearing different ideas, concerns.
I actually ended up meeting with Reedin person in Vegas like two weeks ago.

Dave (00:45):
Nice.

Jerremy (00:46):
So we had some some more good follow-up conversation,
but yeah, I enjoyed it, man.
I think it'd be fun for people tolearn or hear about where you started
when we entered this, like whereyou were at on this whole journey.

Dave (00:58):
I think like a lot of people I I started with this general feeling,
Hey, this isn't working, this doesn'twork, this isn't working for me.
The, this whole voting thing,this just seems ridiculous.
And then you don't know what to believewith oh, voting fraud and hanging chads
and like there's been nothing but votingfraud as the, it seems like the highest

(01:20):
best use of political capital since 2016.
It's just been Russiansand stuffed ballot boxes.
And nobody feels good about that, right?
It's like you want your vote tocount and yet underneath it all,
like I knew things weren't rightwith things like gerrymandering.
And that came up over and over again.

(01:40):
So it felt very, like theprocess was broken for me, right?
It's and there's a, there'sthis this creeping ni nihilism,
I don't know how to say it,
Of well who watches the watchers, if thepeople who are in charge of this, or the
ones in charge of reforming it, and it'sin their best interest to keep it exactly

(02:04):
the same because they wanna stay in power,like it gets dark really quick, right?

Jerremy (02:08):
Yeah.

Dave (02:09):
So I, I think that's, I started in that space of, okay, this is a problem.
Everybody knows it's a problemand we can't do anything about it.
And that did evolve for me, I'd say.
How about you?
Where did you start in this?

Jerremy (02:21):
I started I believe from the, and I probably have a lot of this still, but
definitely started from the perspectiveof we need more data, more numbers.
A little bit more strictness to it andmore sure, let's call it protocols.
Putting very strategic things in place.

(02:42):
And one of the, one of the aspects thatdefinitely shifted in a nice way was
the like national holiday for voting.

Dave (02:51):
Yeah.

Jerremy (02:51):
That's actually probably a really great way to make it
more standardized, to make it moreavailable, to make it more open so that
everyone does take off work from itand they actually have access to it.
And that aspect, you have theability to track more data

Dave (03:08):
Yeah.

Jerremy (03:09):
again, with AI and technology, just make it a little bit more seamless.
I do think that there's still, Idon't think we've solved for that yet.
With all the different waysto vote, with like mail-in
ballots and so on and so forth.
But I do believe that there's somesomething there where it's one or
two more deep dives into the dowe track, how do we know for sure?

(03:31):
Did these people vote or not?

Dave (03:33):
Yeah.

Jerremy (03:34):
especially if you were registered to vote and you didn't vote, why not?
If you did register to vote and youvoted awesome, like I don't really.
Worry about personally havingthat data being shared.
I think that could be somethingthat'd be very easy to be privatized
Secure way.
But yeah, man I did, I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the journey.
It was really fun to justhave that conversation.
I definitely was convinced that stricteridentification and process integrity

(03:57):
were central to voter confidence.
And I still see slash saw civicparticipation through a lens
of individual responsibilityand procedural rigorousness.

Dave (04:09):
yeah.
Yeah.

Jerremy (04:10):
So it it enjoyable to know that I, after, and we'll get to it later,
but speaking to Rob, there's definitelypeople who really care about the process,

Dave (04:18):
Yeah.

Jerremy (04:19):
about the numbers, who do care about the data, who do truly
are putting in the mathematicalsequences to figure this stuff out.
get really dialed in.

Dave (04:27):
That's, I didn't participate in the discussion was wrong.
I was in the background for thoseof you, I think we addressed it
a little bit at the top of this.
These are launching rightnow as we're recording this.
I was there, but I, as you can hearfrom my voice I'm still recovering a
bit from a wee bit of a virus that,that that grabbed me and held me down.
But I was listening to it and Iwas re-listening to Rob and I.

(04:49):
I love that we have advocates thatare so passionate about that he's
devoted his entire life to this.
And that's the piece thatgives me hope, right?
It tamps down that, that nihilismof oh, we can't do anything when
we like, oh, but we have peopleand he's made big changes with the
proportionate voting, the rank choice,voting, those things have happened.

(05:11):
And the one that, that is, I thinkthe easiest one that we can do that
would actually help quite a bitwould be that national holiday.
That's gonna be a hard one.
Not for people, for anybody inpower to say that's a bad idea.
Like that's an easy one.
And it's not one of those directfixes, but it's on the side of it.

(05:33):
It'll be like, okay, if we're gettingmore people to, to participate.
We're gonna have more peoplewho are going to want reform.
I think approaching voting reform headon is a, is it is just, it's always
going to hit up against the peoplewho are gonna wanna keep it the same.
So we have to like, we have to hitat it at the side and the is gonna

(05:56):
be like national holiday, that meanswe're gonna get more people involved.
That means with more voices, morepeople, more power around that, then
that will lead to bigger, better things.
And I think that's my favoriteone that came out of all of this,
which was, yeah, national holiday.
That seems like an easy win.

Jerremy (06:13):
That's exactly from all the things we discussed, that does
seem pretty pretty reasonable.

Dave (06:21):
Yeah.

Jerremy (06:22):
You can't Hey, you wanna change voting?
Why do you wanna change voting?
'cause you like to vote.
It makes a lot of sense.
It's a national, let's make it a holiday

Dave (06:31):
Totally.

Jerremy (06:32):
because it's once every what, two years, let's probably say that would.

Dave (06:36):
Yeah.
In November, it'd be like we can bumpit up near Thanksgiving maybe, or maybe
it's a, may maybe it'd be the what,the second Tuesday in November, right?

Jerremy (06:45):
Yeah,

Dave (06:46):
Or first Tuesday in November.
I don't know which one it is.

Jerremy (06:48):
Tuesday of November.

Dave (06:49):
Tuesday in November, right?
Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Jerremy (06:52):
Hey, I like it, man.
Let's just make that, let'sjust push that law through.

Dave (06:56):
I think that's an easy one.
I think we can actuallymake that one happen, right?
That feels very doable, getsmore people involved, people
who wanna have the day off.
They can just have the day off.
We can make parties out of it.
We can, have voting drives.
There's so many things.
I, I hear you on the ID thing, and I,we, we talked to Reed, we talked to
oh, we talked to, oh, Tyler, right?

(07:17):
We've talked about ID a few timesand, like I live here in, in Florida
where, strict id you have to show it.
I do hear, and I heard it a bitfrom from our last guest of yeah.
Like there are still a bunch ofpeople who don't have IDs and
that's a significant barrier.
I still keep coming back towhere we landed on it, which

(07:37):
is let's fix that problem.
Everybody should have an id.
Let's make it inexpensive, easy.
Let's have the ID buses in all of theneighborhoods that need to have them.
It's like having an ID is prettybasic, pretty straightforward, and I
think we can overcome those objectionsby fixing the ID part of this.
I think there's always gonna be edgecases of people who may not, if they're

(08:00):
just new to the country and theydon't have some source documentation,
but you can get there, right?
You can get there withHey, this is who I am.
I test who I am, this is how Iget a gas bill, this address,
this is, on and on, right?
My buddy Jerremy says, this is who I am.
So

Jerremy (08:14):
Yeah.

Dave (08:14):
I think let's fix the ID thing, but let's fix it separately.
And then you can definitelyuse it for things like voting.
And I think it's okay to tiethose things together, I think.
I think you're all for that, right?

Jerremy (08:25):
I'm all for that.
Yep.
I'm, that's, I vote yes.
Hearing Yeah.
Tyler talk about it and Reed and Rob andreally all from different perspectives.
I was intrigued to learn how many peoplehad a relatively strong opinion on it.
Outside of our three guests,there were a lot of people that
were like, no, don't do that.

(08:46):
'cause you're gonna disenfranchiseor you're gonna, you're gonna
create too much separation.
Or there's a lot of people thatdon't have that, and that's unfair.
And I do exactly agree with whatyou said, and I think really what
we said is, man, we can fix that.
That's

Dave (09:02):
Yeah,

Jerremy (09:03):
right?

Dave (09:04):
easy,

Jerremy (09:04):
get everyone an ID

Dave (09:06):
right?

Jerremy (09:07):
and then just make it a requirement

Dave (09:09):
It's gonna be free, you can't afford it.
Here's your id.
Great.
It doesn't even have to be adriver's license or anything.
It'd just be like, like walking aroundId, this is you, this is who you are.
You can use it for all sort of things.
You can use it to, to check out booksat your library, whatever, right?

Jerremy (09:22):
All kinds of things.
Having an idea, like ifyou want to go to the gym,

Dave (09:26):
That was the story.
You couldn't go work outbecause you didn't have your.

Jerremy (09:29):
go work out at Lifetime Fitness in Laguna Beach, California

Dave (09:34):
Yeah.

Jerremy (09:34):
buddies,

Dave (09:35):
Nope.

Jerremy (09:36):
don't have an id.
You can't get jacked without an id.
So you need some.
So that is a, am a.
Legal system of the us I think that'sjust a valid, useful thing to have.

Dave (09:49):
Yeah

Jerremy (09:50):
I do agree with, I think Reid was really one who brought up.
It was like I really don't think, illegalimmigrants are flooding to the booths
and making a bunch of votes anyway.
And I agree with that.
I don't think that's

Dave (10:00):
We talked about that too, and I think I'm a little bit more liberal
on this, meaning that regardlessof your legal status whether you're
a citizen or not, let's just leaveit at that US citizen versus not.
You live here, right?
You have a vested interestby living in your community.
I am totally fine.

(10:22):
With regardless of immigration status,if you are a student from someplace
else, if you are, a permanent resident,if you're like, whatever it is, you are
here in the United States and you arehere for the next one year, five year
indefinitely, whatever it is, right?
You have a ve vestedinterest in your community.
So yeah, you should be able tovote in your local elections.

(10:43):
You should be able to vote inyour county-wide stuff, and who's
gonna be collecting your garbageand picking up stray dogs and your
local ordinances on, on, on noise.
And like all of that stuff is apart of you and your community.
And then maybe states candecide whether or not you can
do state, level stuff or not.
I tend to think yeah, that, regardlessof your status, you should be able to

(11:05):
do state stuff when it gets to be likefederal and your federal representation.
Yeah, I think that really is for citizens.
I don't know why I feel thatway, but it just, it that
feels more you're an American.
So you're voting on America, likeI'm of the mindset that like,
if you live in a community, youshould be able to vote in community
regardless of your quote unquote,

Jerremy (11:25):
yeah, I

Dave (11:26):
nation of origin,

Jerremy (11:27):
no, I actually love that perspective.
I love that perspective.
I think it would be more of a, again,from the ID perspective of if people
have, this is who I am, are you?
If you're a student, you'relike, oh, I walk into the thing.
Here's my student visa.
Oh, you're here legally.

Dave (11:44):
Yeah.

Jerremy (11:46):
Anyone who's here illegally,

Dave (11:47):
Yeah.

Jerremy (11:48):
yeah, absolutely.
Vote in anything local.
'cause you live here.

Dave (11:52):
You live here,

Jerremy (11:53):
You're buying food, you're buying

Dave (11:55):
right?

Jerremy (11:55):
so you're

Dave (11:55):
Yeah,

Jerremy (11:56):
all that good stuff.
If you're here illegally, I don'tthink you should be voting in anything.

Dave (12:01):
really?
I don't know.
I don't care about thelegal status all that much.
'cause going back toour immigration debate,

Jerremy (12:07):
Yep.

Dave (12:07):
Let's fix the, let's fix the, everybody's here to work, so
let's fix it on the working side.
And I, so I'm like, look, ifit, regardless, I really am.
It's regardless of status, ifyou live in an area, you should
be able to vote on something.
I dunno.

Jerremy (12:22):
what I like when Reid was essentially saying there hasn't really
ever been a specific, influx or adiatribe of very particular people.
They're like, let'stotally swing something.
'cause we're all, we're illegal andwe're all gonna vote this one way and
we're gonna bring in a cartel member.
he's gonna become, he'sgonna become mayor,

Dave (12:41):
That would be interesting.
Okay.
Yeah, I can imagine somescenarios where I might backtrack.

Jerremy (12:46):
But soft scenarios.

Dave (12:47):
Right.

Jerremy (12:48):
'cause, because, yeah, I think it's just again, back to the
ID part, that just seems so easy

Dave (12:54):
So straightforward.

Jerremy (12:55):
Yeah.
Everyone could just get lucky.
I'm a human and I really like living here.
It's a great country.
Here's an id, I am that person.
Yeah, it'd be really fun.
Make it makes Starbucksorders a lot easier.
You can just show them your card.
Hey, here's my, here's who I am,here's how my name is spelled.
And then the Starbucksbarista writes it correctly.

Dave (13:16):
I can already hear the civil libertarians in our audience.
Just dying on the insidegoing, no, I don't watch an id.
No.

Jerremy (13:26):
Well, I.
But they already, the civillibertarians already have an id, right?

Dave (13:31):
But it's in your name, right?

Jerremy (13:34):
Yeah.
It's good times.
Good times.

Dave (13:37):
So yeah we talked to Reid.
That was great.
That was God that feels so long ago.
Then we talked to Tyler.

Jerremy (13:43):
Yep.
Both are fun.
Yeah.
Reid's a civic observer.
Had he just, he loved it.
He's in it.
He loves talking politics.
We sat down for breakfast,three minutes in boom.
Politics.
It was like politics and stocks and money.
That was the breakfast conversation.
And it was nice.
It was interesting that he illustrated howdistrust elections is cultivated, right?

(14:07):
It's not really accidental, which makes.
Perfect sense.
And he definitely positioned himselfin a way that gerrymandering the
foundational democratic flaw.
And

Dave (14:17):
It is it the deep wound?
When it gets down to it, we didn'tfind, I, maybe next time I'm gonna find
somebody who's yeah, gerrymandering.
Go gerrymandering.

Jerremy (14:29):
It's the best.
I love salamanders.
Yeah.

Dave (14:33):
It's yeah, I don't think we're, again, that's just like people wanting
to stay in power for the sake of power.
And that's all, partisan politics.
And it has nothing todo with representation.
It has nothing to do that's whenit, it feels the most to me,
that, our representatives carethe least about us when it affects

(14:56):
their ability to keep their job.

Jerremy (15:00):
On gerrymandering.
You said ah let's find someonethat made this awesome.

Dave (15:04):
Oh
Who watches the watchers?
Like I, is, we're seeing it nowwith, states wanting to redistrict
right now in time for, for midtermscoming up this time next year.
So California's gonna add,Florida's gonna add, Texas is
gonna add, new York's gonna add.
Everybody's gonna add like abunch of representatives, try
and balance each other out andtry to get like the upper hand.

(15:26):
None of it actually servesany of the voters at all.
This is just, as politiciansbeing politicians,

Jerremy (15:33):
Yep.

Dave (15:33):
I fixing gerrymandering isn't going to be a thing that we can do.
Not until we, we take it outof the hands of politicians,

Jerremy (15:42):
Yeah.

Dave (15:42):
Like that's, this is not gonna be it.

Jerremy (15:45):
Un unless unless we have an AI redraw borders or something.

Dave (15:49):
I love it.
But then

Jerremy (15:50):
But again, you gotta take it outta the hands.
Yeah.

Dave (15:52):
be like, okay.
Yeah

Jerremy (15:53):
hey Jerry, you can't draw your district lines in North Carolina.

Dave (15:57):
And you brought this up, I think more than once, you brought it up with,
I think in every single one of ours,which is look we already have counties.
Like, why what's the deal here?
Like why do we have anything else?
But, and man, that makesso much more sense to me.
And like for Miami-Dade for thecounty, I, because of how many million

(16:20):
people live here, I would just get,five representatives that would

Jerremy (16:23):
Yep.

Dave (16:25):
Miami-Dade, and it's not, like this particular district, it's
this county like, and all five of'em, and in a more sparse area, they
might have two or three counties.
And that, I don't know that seemsso straightforward, so simple.
It's like we don't need gerrymandering.
We already have

Jerremy (16:46):
Correct.

Dave (16:46):
boundaries.
They're already

Jerremy (16:48):
They're already there.
They're already drawn.
Just stop with the politic games.
Yeah.
So that that one's, that's theone that I'm, I love that we
both beautifully agree on that.
That also sounds really easy.
And you know what?
It's pretty straightforward, right?
All that stuff is already done.
It's already there.
It's already outlined for us.
There's not a lot of whole, nota lot of work that we need to do.

Dave (17:08):
Yeah.

Jerremy (17:09):
So that was nice.

Alex (17:10):
Dave digs into gerrymandering's deep wounds on fair representation,
while Jerremy pushes for usingexisting county lines to cut the games.
Yet if politicians redraw boundariesto cling to power, what chance do
voters have to reclaim the map?