Reviving Civic Duty: Why Votes Matter and How to Engage the Disengaged

Jerremy and Dave explore civic duty as a virtue, spotlighting guest Tyler's take on voting as personal integrity and Rob Richie's push for ranked choice voting. They dissect why many—especially youth—skip elections, proposing bold shifts like making voting "cool," mandatory participation, incentives, and a national holiday to transform apathy into action and amplify every voice in democracy.

Timestamps:

• (00:00) Reflections: Barriers and Hopes for Voting Reform
• (06:31) Voter Apathy: Unpacking Why People Skip Elections
• (09:49) Impact Factor: The Real Power of Individual Votes
• (10:32) Electoral College Critique: Weighing Its Role Today
• (13:11) Engagement Boost: Ideas to Make Voting Accessible and Fun

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Episode Transcript

Alex (00:00):
Jerremy probes Tyler's virtue-driven view of civic duty, as
Dave spotlights ranked choice voting'spower to shatter pre-decided races.
But if 87% of elections lock in beforevoters even show, how do everyday
frustrations turn into real change?

Jerremy (00:16):
I re-listened to some of Tyler's episodes, really just yesterday and.
I like that guy, man.
I love me some Tyler.
He lives in Vegas.
I'm excited to hang outwith him again soon.

Dave (00:27):
Fantastic.

Jerremy (00:28):
Yeah, just really cool guy.
He just had a, he was very connectedto what he would feel like was like
the moral endurance of this country.
His, he had a big emphasis onindividual integrity and kind of
reframed voting as a reflectionof personal virtue, which I liked.

(00:49):
It was really nice.
Yeah.

Dave (00:52):
this is, that's gonna change behavior more than anything else,
is if we make it cool to vote,
And we make it about, your.
To be the best person that you are.
You are, part of your, part of theareas that you work in are your
community, yourself, your health,your mental, your spiritual, all

(01:14):
of these components are part of it.
And one of them is civic.
And I don't think we spendany time talking about how
we're feeding our civic soul.
and I think bringing that backto things that you talk about
all the time is education.
Growing up I did in my day like wedid do like we had civics classes,
like we, we talked about history,we talked about, civic engagement.

(01:37):
We did a pledge, allegiance to the flag.
Like the, these things were, theywere part of being, just learning
about who we are and what ourresponsibilities were as citizens.
And I think.
Making it cool to vote and ensuring thatpeople are like, like this is important.
And it's a thing then that in itself,without, even with a holiday, I

(01:59):
think that in itself would be reallyhelpful to just say, Hey, vote.

Jerremy (02:03):
Yep.

Dave (02:04):
And I think

Jerremy (02:04):
I,

Dave (02:05):
from Tyler, right?

Jerremy (02:06):
yeah, I did.
Man, you can't vote your way to virtue.
I just, I liked it and I dug him.
He was a cool dude.
Good energy.
Especially on this topic, and I thinka lot of his, followers and listeners
enjoyed him being on the show.
And then you had your homie Rob Richie.

Dave (02:22):
Oh I just, I'd reached out.
I, that was the firsttime I'd met Rob too.
I'd got turned on to, an organization inCalifornia that had a bunch of national
advocates on voting and voting reform.
And I reached out to everybody thatwas on the panel I got connected
with one, one group Nick, he wasn'table to join us just because our, the
timing of things just didn't work out.

(02:43):
But Rob was like right there,and I was super excited to have
Rob because he, he's a, he is anabsolute rockstar in the field.
And I love people who arelike famous in their vertical.
It's like I have a buddyI grew up with him.
He is, brother from another.
And he's really big inthe pinball community.
He's done a lot of technology in there.
He's he does a lot of the programming.

(03:04):
He does a lot of, and he isdone it for years and years.
And like the pinball community is fierce.
And I had no idea.
I had no, I knew nothing about them.
And then we were walking around inVegas a few years back and he, people
were stopping him for his autograph.
And I'm like, what is going on?
And he goes yeah, like I'm super famousin this one, one area and they're just

(03:26):
rabid fans, so people want my autograph.
I'm like, that is the coolest.
So like Rob is, a long time advocateand a long time policy wonk.
He's, he lives and breathes this andI just, makes me happy to know that
people like Rob, they're out there andthey are making a change like his work.

(03:48):
Led to actual reforms in New York State,in Alaska, in, in, in a variety of
areas for, proportional representationand for ranked choice voting, which
more complicated than they are.
But I think that both of those things,if we can get people to wrap their heads
around it, I think, those are cool too.
I don't know howpoliticians feel about them.

(04:11):
I have a feeling that if it somehowwill, if they think that it might hurt
their chances of continuing what they'redoing, that they seem to be against it.
But like in California, I had rankedchoice not here in, in in Florida.
What's the deal in Nevada?
You know what?
haven't voted in Nevada lately, have you?

Jerremy (04:29):
I haven't, no.
Yep.
So I'm not a hundredpercent entirely sure,

Dave (04:34):
You really got to talk to him.
I was hanging on for dear life.
What was

Jerremy (04:38):
bro.
Glad you're alive.

Dave (04:39):
Yeah,

Jerremy (04:41):
Glad you're live after that episode.
I just, yeah, to your point, I likethe people that focus on a niche
and the guy drilled down into it.
He is, he's in it.
And I think I, I believe I talked alittle bit more about the proportional
voting than Rank Choice, but at thesame time it's, it really isn't that
hard because most people, they do feellike they only have one real vote.

(05:04):
Like they're always saying you'revoting between the lesser of two evils,

Dave (05:07):
yeah.

Jerremy (05:07):
they're like, I don't really wanna vote for either of these people.
But if some, so if someone's like,all right, I really actually kinda
like this person, so I'm gonnaput them as my number one vote.
But you know what?
Trump, he's a scallywag, buthe was a scallywag already
for four years previously.
I'll put 'em as number two.
And so then it's like, allright, you're really putting

(05:28):
the candidate that you want.
Then there's still Trump there.
And so you're still listing that vote.
And if everyone does that and theyjust mix and match who number one is,
they're slowly getting to actually vote.
But then number two wins.
'cause that was a majority

Dave (05:42):
Take all right?
Like we're
The post.
That's how we are.
And
Choice changes that I, it wasshocking to me to, to see the number,
the number that 87% every singleelection are already decided before
you even get to the ballot box.

Jerremy (06:00):
Yeah.

Dave (06:01):
Because of the, and they're effectively decided at the primary.
If you win the primary, it'swhat happens in New York, right?
If you're a Democrat in New YorkCity and a mayor, you're gonna win.
there's, that's, it'salready been decided.

Jerremy (06:16):
Yeah.
Which, correct me if I'm wrong,I think that's the exact opposite
of what voting is supposed to do.
Okay.
Just making sure.
Just trying to remember that.
Yeah, man.
It's.
It's very unique and it's very fun.
It's very interesting.
Other than the general ones, I think weprobably have an understanding of what
surprised you the most about why peopledon't vote from the entire conversations.

Dave (06:41):
Did we talk about that?
As I'm thinking about it, it justseems know that people in my life who
do not vote, they are disinterestedin politics to begin with.
It's not, it's not on their radar.
They don't follow it.
It's not their thing.
They don't, they're notup on current events.
It's just not on the radar, right?
They live their lives and theyhave full lives without any really

(07:03):
knowledge of what's going on in theworld, which God bless 'em, I think
they'll probably outlive us all.
But the piece that goes withthat is my vote doesn't matter.

Jerremy (07:12):
Yeah,

Dave (07:14):
What about you?
What why do you think people don't vote?

Jerremy (07:18):
Yes.
So the reason I don't think peopledon't vote other than those two
probably really just is the feelingthat it, the vote doesn't matter.
So it's less like probably backmore to the disenfranchisement.
They're like, Hey, they already feellike a 7% of it's rigged anyway.
So it's pro, if you live in a red state.

Dave (07:41):
Yeah.

Jerremy (07:41):
Tennis, Tennessee, Kentucky, and you don't like a
Republican, what are you gonna do?
So it's almost like they're not gonnashow, they're not gonna show up.
'cause they're like, oh I'm noteven gonna, my vote doesn't matter.
It's not gonna, it's not gonna win.

Dave (07:55):
yeah, but Barack Obama won Tennessee, so I, you know anybody who's
saying that, I'm like, I don't know, man.
I, I particularly with with who'sdefining what's a Republican and who's
defining well and the general dislike ofthe Democrats right now, the corporate
Democrats are at record low approval.

(08:16):
So they are starting theirtransformation that the Republicans
started effectively in 2011.
Which was the tea parties, that startedre reforming and refactoring what
the Republicans thought they were.
And then Trump blew it all up.
And so like the shape of the Republicanparty today and the shape of the
party, with Mitt Romney, those are twodifferent, those are alien species,

(08:39):
And they're still doing their evolution.
But, all of those deep red states werepurple or Democrats for years and years.
And it was the, it was theDemocrats that lost those states.
I hear it when somebody says myvote doesn't matter because I'm
a democrat in a red state, orI'm a Republican in a blue state.

(08:59):
I don't know, man.
Particularly if we're talkingabout rank choice voting and
the fickleness of voters.
I don't know.

Jerremy (09:06):
I think I, I think it's just a realization that we can,
you have someone that just keepschampioning the idea, right?
You just make it cool.
You start making it cool to vote.
People will just take it away.
Like in, you have the holiday and goes,Hey, regardless if your, who cares?
If you don't think yourvote matters, it's.

(09:26):
It's just cool to do, just do it.
It's just fun.
You get a barbecue and then Ithink more people will kind, they
probably will end up doing it.
One thing that we didn't talk, I.

Dave (09:36):
For every person who says, my vote doesn't matter.
I literally listen to a staterepresentative in Virginia.
'cause Virginia has a vote.
This, like this time they're anoff, they're an off year vote,
for governor and for their state.
And I heard one of the state repssay, yeah, I won my first district.
Nobody thought I would everwin and become a state rep.

(09:57):
I said, she said, I won it by 11 votes.
And I'm like, okay there, there your votecan really count, and we were talking
about the hanging chads here in Florida,like every vote actually did count if
you voted in in Florida in, in, 1999.
So it's I, I.
I, I'm I'm gonna hear peoplesaying, yeah, my vote doesn't count.

(10:18):
But I think that those are peoplewho are already not civically
engaged and we gotta make it

Jerremy (10:22):
Yeah,

Dave (10:23):
It's

Jerremy (10:23):
exactly.

Dave (10:24):
it may not count and you're like, you may not believe it
counts, but it's gonna be cool,

Jerremy (10:27):
yep.
Exactly.
It's gonna be a barbecue, bro.
We're gonna have a party.
It's gonna be really fun.
Yeah, I like that.
Two things we didn'tactually talk about at all.
I don't believe, unlessI just really spaced out.
Should we, thoughts on electoral college?
No one said that at all.

Dave (10:42):
we

Jerremy (10:42):
Do we just get rid of that and just do a popularity vote?
For let's, obviously we'retalking federal, like primary
presidential candidate.
Best person wins.
Go out to the ballot box.
Get rid of the electoral college.
Thank you.

Dave (10:55):
I, I hear you and you run into the same problem of small states don't matter.

Jerremy (11:01):
They don't matter now with the electoral college.

Dave (11:03):
Yeah, because we have swing, states.

Jerremy (11:06):
You got the big Exactly.
You got the big states.
They don't matter now.
Like Nevada with its fourvotes, Wyoming, Montana, North
Dakota, South Dakota, Missouri

Dave (11:16):
But if

Jerremy (11:16):
Alaska, Hawaii.

Dave (11:18):
but if

Jerremy (11:18):
I.

Dave (11:19):
just, proportionate first pass the post, if we didn't have
rank choice voting, if we didn'thave, if we didn't have proportional
representation, it was just likestraight up popular vote for president,
then no one would ever go to Iowa.
There wouldn't be any point in it.
Nobody would ever go to Nevada, like that.
Nobody would show up in Arizona.
Everybody would just be campedout, God forbid, in Florida,

(11:40):
New York, Texas, and California,because nothing else would matter,

Jerremy (11:44):
Maybe,

Dave (11:45):
it?

Jerremy (11:45):
Because it's just a popularity contest, so it's it's a, it is just
a pure numbers game at that point.
Show up to vote because your one vote'sgonna be the, it is just a running tally.
I think if it was just purely a,any one votes because we haven't
done it that way ever in America.
It's always been electoral college state.
Which to, to my knowledge, I don'tthink we ever had just like a

(12:07):
puron, like who has the most votes?

Dave (12:09):
Yeah.

Jerremy (12:10):
There's always there.

Dave (12:11):
It is literally in the electoral college is in the Constitution.
We,

Jerremy (12:14):
Yeah.
So again we probably prob

Dave (12:17):
The idea was like, look, big states,

Jerremy (12:19):
yeah.

Dave (12:19):
to rule by, by, pop, the tyranny of the of the majority.
We want to have, we want to haverepresentation from even the small states.

Jerremy (12:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's just interesting.
I just throwing it outthere as a fun question, but

Dave (12:34):
How about

Jerremy (12:34):
I,

Dave (12:35):
I would go with that.
How about that?
Go back to the county method.

Jerremy (12:39):
yeah.
Counties.

Dave (12:40):
States don't matter.
It's now county by county.
By county,

Jerremy (12:44):
I could dig that.
That'd be really fun.

Dave (12:46):
yeah.

Jerremy (12:46):
It'd be really nice if we had the lines drawn for the county
so that we knew where they were.

Dave (12:51):
Like

Jerremy (12:52):
I feel like it would just make it helpful.
So on

Dave (12:55):
how soon before that they would start redrawing the county
It's oh crap, I'm notin Miami-Dade anymore.
I'm in Fairfax.
I'm like, oh, no.

Jerremy (13:02):
oh, no.
That's a unfortunatebut very valid question.
Yeah, man.
This, no, this has been fun.
Again, I think what we have definitelyreally understood is it probably
wouldn't be that much of a challengeto just get more people to vote and

(13:22):
start hearing from more individuals.
And again, I think with a holiday.
People just start talking aboutvoting, making it, it's cool.
You should just do it.
It's really awesome.
It's gonna be a party that byitself, we probably get, I would
say, 10 to 15% more participation.
'cause there's also people thatjust, they gotta work dude.
And they're grinding it out and theygot the kids and they got the bills and

(13:45):
they got the mortgage and they got allthe things like, I'm not gonna go vote.
Who cares?
It's stupid, it's dumb.
It doesn't matter anyway.
Like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I'm just not in politics.
I really don't care.
But if you make it a lot easier forpeople to vote I, I think more people
would vote and by easy, again, I hear thecomments when I say, oh, but if you have

(14:06):
voter id, it's not gonna make it easy.
It's we can solve thatproblem can easily be solved.
That's a
Four day solution.

Dave (14:13):
Biometrics,

Jerremy (14:15):
Yep.

Dave (14:15):
Like I buy things on my computer, it's we can solve the ID
thing that, that seems like way easierthan getting people to the to vote.

Jerremy (14:23):
Yeah.

Dave (14:23):
The big lever for me continues to be national voting, holiday.
Sure.
We can get everybody an id.
I think that's great.
We talked about mandatory voting.
That feels very anti-American to me.
But I also feel like, I dunnothat sounds pretty good to me too.
I think it should be mandatoryOr is it a it's voting

Jerremy (14:41):
I think

Dave (14:41):
That must be exercised.

Jerremy (14:44):
exactly.
I think it's a right.
I do think it's a right.
I don't think it must be exercisedthough, like it's a right to own guns,

Dave (14:51):
Right.

Jerremy (14:52):
but we ain't forcing, we ain't forcing everyone to buy guns.
Yeah.
gun with every voter registration.
Now you get a bunch of owners, you go, ohman, you got so many voters showing up.

Dave (15:04):
about paying people to vote?
Lot.
Vote for me, here's a hundred bucks.
But it's okay

Jerremy (15:08):
every time someone votes, they get paid.

Dave (15:11):
You're getting a, you're getting a, a gift card to Chili's.
If you show up to vote,

Jerremy (15:14):
I love Chili's, bro.
Who doesn't love Chili's?

Dave (15:18):
you get a blooming onion at the

Jerremy (15:20):
Uhhuh.
I think that, that wouldactually, would incentivize
people a lot more than you think.
That's why you thought it, but yeah,it would, people would get pretty,
pretty pumped and amped by that.

Dave (15:28):
Yeah.

Jerremy (15:29):
Definitely don't hate that idea.
And a lot of people have askedme, like from the, my presidential
race and presidential standpoint,that is one of my goals or one of
my ideals or beliefs is I believeover the next seven to eight years.
I can and do have the ability tospeak to and educate and conversate
and converse with the large group ofindividuals that do not currently vote.

(15:54):
'cause I right now in the US it'slet's just call it 90 million.
90 million.
That's 180 million.
So that means you got another,that's half the country votes 50%.
So if I can go capture.
30% of the votes, the that 50% thatdon't currently vote just 'cause it's
cool, it's exciting, it's unique.

(16:14):
I'm a great guy.
I actually care about you.
I was you, I'm from you.
We're gonna change the educational system.

Dave (16:20):
yeah.

Jerremy (16:21):
It's unique.
It's a right, it's aprivilege, it's an honor.
It's virtuous, it's incredible.
Let's all go vote.

Dave (16:27):
Yeah.

Jerremy (16:28):
then some of the other 50%, I'll have to capture
some of them mathematically.
So then if you have one person gets30% of the votes mathematically,
that probably could be the winner

Dave (16:44):
It's,

Jerremy (16:45):
based on our kind, the way we cut the pie now?

Dave (16:47):
it's gonna be young people over and over again.
And that showed up in our researchtoo, which is if you don't start
voting young, you tend to not vote.
If you've never voted, then you know,once you get into your twenties, you're
not gonna vote thirties, forget it.
Forties, what's voting?
And yet,

Jerremy (17:05):
Yeah,

Dave (17:06):
Like young people are the, the current young crowd are, is
our largest population becausethe boomers are finally dying.
They can sway elections.
New York right now is the demographicsare shifting wildly because a

Jerremy (17:21):
time.

Dave (17:21):
of young people are showing up to, to vote for mayor and they never have.
Getting young people excited abouttheir issues, I, I'd say that'd be
another reason why people don't voteis it's the politicians are talking
about things that don't matter.
And I'm feeling that now.
Like we, heard a lot of blah, blah, blah.
We're gonna fix that.
We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that.

(17:41):
Promises made, promises kept, andit's been just a load of, malarkey.

Jerremy (17:47):
I won.
I had a bet that you're gonna usethe word malarkey in this episode.

Dave (17:51):
You got the bingo card on that

Jerremy (17:53):
Yep.

Dave (17:53):
was malarkey, but that's the, that's the politicians
don't listen to me mentality.
Which I think is super valid.
Because the things that are importantto most Americans, that they're
safe, that they have good education,that they have a good job, that they
have a brighter future, that they'rehealthy, that they, you know, all of

(18:14):
those things those table stakes those.
And when you do everything but talk tothose things, then you run into problems.
I think,

Jerremy (18:24):
Yeah.

Dave (18:24):
Like you're seeing a lot in the current administration where they
talked about those things that gotyoung people excited about those things.
More young people voted Republican.
And then at any other time this lastsession and yet the exact things that
young people are worried about ai yeah.
That that's, we've just pouredgasoline on top of that.
So okay.

(18:45):
Uncertain future, interna, focusedon international, non-domestic.
Yeah, that's, that keeps happening.
Tariffs.
You're driving up my prices still.
I can't afford a house.
Like that, that's, that, that housingaffordability is at the top of most

Jerremy (18:59):
Yeah.

Dave (19:00):
thing.

Alex (19:01):
Jerremy champions capturing the silent 50% through fresh appeals,
as Dave ties low youth turnout tomismatched priorities like housing.
But their urgency builds toward araw edge—when promises ring hollow,
how do voters reclaim the narrative?