May 14, 2025 • 56 mins
What happens when your greatest fear becomes your life's calling? For Aram Levendosky, a needle phobia nearly prevented him from discovering his gift as an acupuncturist. Through a series of "spiritual bitch slaps" (as we affectionately call those universal nudges), Aram found himself repeatedly guided toward Traditional Chinese Medicine until his own healing experience made the path undeniable.
This conversation takes us deep into the four foundational pillars of Chinese medicine that create true wellness: lifestyle alignment with nature's rhythms, therapeutic bodywork, mindful movement practices, and finally, acupuncture itself. Aram shares fascinating insights about cupping therapy's ancient global history, explaining how this powerful technique creates suction that lifts tissues rather than compressing them—offering unique benefits for circulation, adhesions, and toxin release. As someone who's practiced cupping for 15+ years, his expertise reveals why athletes and celebrities have embraced this ancient technique.
Perhaps most powerful is Aram's philosophy on healing: "Your health is in your own hands. You have the power to heal yourself." Unlike practitioners who create dependency, he sees his role as simply reminding the body how to restore its natural balance. We explore how meditation, qigong, and even beekeeping (yes, beekeeping!) provide therapeutic benefits through vibration and energy cultivation. The parallels between sound healing and the hum of a beehive offer a beautiful reminder of nature's inherent medicine.
For anyone struggling with chronic pain, stress, or the limitations of conventional healthcare, this episode offers practical wisdom from traditions that have stood the test of time. Discover why addressing energy blockages rather than just symptoms creates lasting relief, and how simple practices like proper hydration, focused movement, and mindful breathing can transform your wellbeing. Ready to reclaim your innate healing power? This conversation will show you how.
More about Aram . . . .
Aram is a licensed acupuncturist and holds a Masters of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine from the Oregon C
Are you ready to feel supported on your healing journey? The Soma Flow Library of Healing is now available. With a powerful meditations, hypnosis sessions and Superconscious Recodes to restructure your unconscious patterns, this is a must have tool to your journey back to you.
About Tabitha
Tabitha MacDonald is an Intuitive Coach and Bodyworker committed to helping people overcome their pain as fast as possible so that they can have the love, success, freedom and fulfillment they truly desire.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am very excited to have a very special guest on the
Soma Flow podcast today.
His name is Aram Levandosky.
He's an acupuncturist, aholistic healthcare practitioner
and a dad who has been stickingpeople where it hurts for over
15 years.
I should have put that afterthe acupuncturist, not the dad,
(00:20):
but we'll talk about that.
So today we're going to talkabout the journey to following
your soul's path and fatherhoodin the modern world.
Welcome, Aram, I'm very excitedto have you on the podcast
today.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thank you, tabitha.
It's great to be here.
I'm excited to be here, that'sgood.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Aram and I have a unique and special history.
Uh, we met at a, oh a seniorfair at the YMCA in Sherwood,
and I don't know if I've evertold you this, but you're the
reason I started my business,soma Massage, and uh, no, I
didn't know that oh, I'll haveto tell you this really quick
because we're going to talkabout universal intervention on
(01:04):
today's call too, and I was at astruggle point about whether or
not to go back to corporateAmerica or open Soma Massage,
and you had referred someone tome and right at the moment I
asked she called At the exactmoment, her name was Julie, yeah
, and she said I was referred toyou by Aram and I would like to
(01:27):
book a massage.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And I said, oh well, that was fast, because I had
literally just thrown my handsin the air and was like I don't
know what to do fairlyintroverted at the time and just
putting myself out therebecause I was doing free ear
(01:48):
acupuncture demonstrations totry to cultivate and you know,
get my name out there as far asbeing a business owner in the
area and cultivate some patients.
So me being there was a realpush for myself as well.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh, I love it because I won a free acupuncture
appointment with you and then Igot in a car accident like a
week later, so it ended up beinghighly profitable, right?
Because, like I mean, you know,mbas oh yeah yeah, and then it
was amazing.
So that was definitely flow iswhat I would call it Universal
flow Most definitely, and nowit's like 15 years later.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Right yeah, and we're still doing what we were doing.
Yes, and we've grown in so manyways as well.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So many ways and let's talk about that because
you didn't want to be anacupuncturist.
Right, tell me the story,because I really want to hear
how you became an acupuncturist,right, like, tell me the story,
because I really want to hearhow you became an acupuncturist.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, it's a fairly long story so I'll try to keep
it short.
But my parents raised me opento holistic medicine.
They always had a wonderfulgarden so we ate a lot of
vegetables and taught my parentsespecially my dad, taught us
how to cook.
(03:07):
He was a healer in his ownright.
He would practice touch forhealth on me and shiatsu on me
growing up, and then he wouldhave me practice on him.
So I was interested in healthfrom a very early age.
So in high school we had to jobshadow somebody in a career for
(03:28):
two weeks.
So we followed somebody aroundin their career and I was the
last person to pick and therewere two names on the list.
One was a graphic designer andone was an acupuncturist, and at
that time I was super needlephobic.
I would feel faint if I had ablood draw or something like
(03:49):
that.
So I definitely didn't want tobe with the acupuncturist.
That was not at all who Iwanted to be matched with.
So I chose to be with thegraphic designer.
I actually enjoyed art and Ithought, well, maybe this would
be something that I'm interestedin.
She was super busy and said I'msorry, but I'm not able to take
(04:10):
on, you know, an intern orsomebody to follow me around for
two weeks.
So I was forced to be with thisacupuncturist.
His name was Dan Kenner.
He's an incredible person.
Unfortunately he passed awaylast year.
He was one of the firstWesterners to go train in Japan,
(04:31):
and so he's a very interestingperson.
Obviously fluent in Japanese,he's written many books.
He's also a naturopath, so he'sa double licensed acupuncturist
and a naturopath.
So I was introduced toacupuncture through him.
He had a home clinic and he wassomebody who really walked the
(04:56):
talk.
He believed and believed in themedicine.
It was his passion.
So he ate an incredibly healthydiet, he exercised daily and he
meditated regularly, and thenhe also had this holistic health
practice.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
That is amazing Cause .
I love that you said that,because I think a lot of the
time when we go like even when Iwalk into the doctor's office,
which I don't go to very oftenbut they look sick Like the
people were and I'm like I don'tfeel like that.
That doesn't inspire me.
So I love that you said hewalks the walk, because I think
when you're looking for apractitioner you want someone
(05:39):
who uses their own medicine, youknow, Most definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, so uses their own medicine.
You know, most definitely.
Yeah, um, so he was the firstone.
He said we're going to startwith just doing one acupuncture
point on you, and so he did thispoint here that most people
know for a headache.
It's called hagu or largeintestine four.
So he did that point on me witha thin japanese needle.
I didn't feel faint, I didn'thave excruciating pain like I
(06:08):
was expecting from acupuncture.
In fact, I started feelingreally good, like my gosh.
I feel like my circulation'sopening up and I feel like
something's going on in my bodythat I'm not used to.
So I became more curious aboutit.
I still at that time didn'tthink I wanted to be an
(06:28):
acupuncturist because I stillhad some of that phobia.
So okay, but I did get to bewith him for two weeks and he
later in my life became quite amentor.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Amazing.
Yeah became quite a mentor,amazing.
Yeah, I love it when theuniverse lays a foundation or a
groundwork for something that'sgoing to happen later in life,
and then it makes sense laterand it's like, oh, that's why
that had to happen, so that thatcould happen.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Most definitely.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
He laid down a foundation that at first I was
really resistant to, and then Iended up following in his
footsteps in a way.
So I ended up going to Japan aswell and experiencing
acupuncture there as well.
I didn't train there in thesame way, but I lived next door
to an acupuncturist there andlearned a lot from that fellow
(07:23):
as well acupuncturist there andlearned a lot from that fellow
as well.
So I just had so many differentsort of reintroductions to it
that it kept it kept kind ofbeing in my background and
saying, hey, this is somethingyou should look at, and it's
almost like it kind of slappedme in the face multiple times
and say, hey, what are you doing?
(07:43):
You should, you should bepracticing this medicine as well
.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I like to call that a spiritual bitch slap.
I just gets a little bit.
It gets a little bit louderwhen you don't listen and I and
I didn't listen over and over.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So, uh, for for for a while, right, and then
eventually, um, yeah, my ownpain brought me back to the
medicine, and that's thatacupuncture and Chinese medicine
is what cured my pain.
And then, okay, there's reallysomething here.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So, I you know it's funny when I was teaching
massage full-time, almosteverybody in massage school said
I joined because a massagetherapist helped me out of pain
and I want to do the same forother people.
And I think that that is likehow a lot of healers come in to
their gifts.
It's not having lived a lifethat's painless, it's the pain
(08:40):
that drove them into wanting tohelp other people experience the
relief that they had.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So most definitely.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Tell me how you've expanded it now, because you do
a lot more than just needles.
Like, if you're talking topeople who really didn't know
anything about acupuncture, likewhat is it?
How was the expansiveness ofthe holistic health approach?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah.
So Chinese medicine really isfounded on four pillars,
acupuncture being really thelast thing that you're going to
use as far as healing.
So the first first is islifestyle.
So living a healthy lifestylethat engenders health.
So living a healthy lifestylethat engenders health, so that's
(09:24):
really the foundation.
So there's diets included inthat, herbs are included in that
, and keeping your stress at amild level, but also getting
(09:44):
good sleep is really importantto that.
In Chinese medicine they followthe seasons really closely.
So eating seasonally, stayingwarm in winter and preserving
one's energy in winter is reallyimportant, and starting to
expand that in springtime andthen fully expand your energy
and being more active in summer,but then starting to bring that
(10:06):
back in in fall um, so justfollowing the natural cycles is
really important.
The next step is body work.
So if there, if there's animbalance in the body and what I
mean by imbalance so chinesemedicine is based on yin and
yang um, so when one of one ofthem is out of balance or one of
(10:26):
them is deficient, then we wantto bring bring them back into
balance.
That's how, what createshomeostasis in the body and
allows us to heal fully.
So next we bring in body workif the lifestyle is a little out
of balance, okay.
So we do things like cupping orsomething called Twina or
Shiatsu some different massagetechniques that you know so much
(10:49):
about and cupping therapy is ahuge part of what I do.
I work on about 80% of mypatients with cupping Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
You taught it to me.
You're the reason I introducedit at my clinic, because I
enjoyed it.
And then I think a lot ofmassage therapists have used
cupping.
Actually, I have these I'mcheating with these like little
electronic cups that I keep onmy desk in case I need it.
But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So many different practitioners are using cupping
now.
It's wonderful it's beenrevitalized.
It used to be an incredibletherapy that was used around the
world.
Every single continent in theworld has a cupping tradition.
It's not just from China.
Africa has a cupping tradition,central South America, the
(11:38):
Middle East.
Europe has a tradition incupping, so I have patients from
all over the world who arereally excited that I do cupping
.
I have a patient right now fromUkraine and she said my
grandmother used to do cuppingon me.
I have a patient from Tunisiawho said a very similar thing,
and patients from Mexico andCentral America who would say
(11:59):
that healers down there would docupping on them.
So it's, it's an old worldtradition that's getting
revitalized.
It moves the chi in the body,so our energy, and it also helps
open circulation.
So different from massage whereyou're putting pressure down on
(12:21):
the body.
It's pulling up on the body, soit's really good for adhesions
in the muscle, for helpingrelieve those and also pulling
toxins out of the body as well.
It's an incredible therapy.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh, I love it.
When I first started workingout this year, I bought those.
They're like battery operatedones and I would sit in my like
in my bed just going like, oh mygod, everything hurts, because
it had been a while since I wasexercising for sure they were so
helpful.
They have been so helpful.
Even on my road trip toCalifornia with my daughter, or
(12:54):
Arizona.
I used them in the car becauseI was like it's a long drive, so
right, right.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Post-workout is an incredible therapy.
Pulling out lactic acid,opening up joints that are stiff
.
Cupping is incredible forreducing pain.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So many athletes are using it today isn't that
amazing how, like, everyone'scircling back to just what works
instead of getting okay, it'slike no, this just works.
Like it's been around forthousands of years because I
don't know it's effective.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So like right, yeah, over 5 000 years for for chinese
medicine, um, cupping therapywould go even farther than that.
So tibet has a tradition ofcupping.
They use a metal bowl.
In africa they use horns, soanimal horns.
The practitioner actually sucksthe suction or creates the
(13:46):
suction.
Those traditions go.
I don't even know how far backright, they're just thousands of
years that's so.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That's like I just think that there is this massive
movement of returning to morenatural and holistic health,
because I've heard this quote sooften it's we don't have a
health care system, we have asick care system, and I think
people are tired of it.
Like I mean, I was just evenwith some of my older clients
and I'm just I just educate themabout hydration and they're
(14:17):
like nobody told me this and I'mlike no, you were the
generation that grew up withmarketing, so they actually
profited on you drinking cokeand milk.
So, like you, your, your wholeunconscious programming is
embedded with sales.
And so, yeah, I don't know,it's frustrating when I'm like
(14:40):
getting someone to just drinkwater is like the biggest
challenge and the biggest impacton their health, and it's
fascinating that, like that'sjust not the, the basics that
are handed out.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So most definitely and especially water.
Right, we're almost 80 percentwater and our whole neurological
system, which is an electricalsystem, needs water to operate
right yes yeah, it's interesting.
Uh, yeah, it is.
It is one of the difficultparts of what we do is educating
us, especially when people havedifferent ideas about things
(15:13):
and and uh, yeah, yeah it's hardto undo what sales and
marketing has done like mean.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
For me, that's.
My biggest challenge is likeundoing the like lies that you
know people have been sold tomake money.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And then also those things become habits too, right.
And how?
How do they relearn a habit?
And often they're an addictivehabit too, if it's, if it's
sodas, right.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
It's all addiction.
Yeah, if it's.
If it's sodas right or um, it'sall addiction yeah because it's
just it.
Yeah, it's addictive.
Things make money, and so itmakes me angry that our health
is being compromised for capitalgain.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
But like that's, that's a whole nother topic, but
I have a real quick piece onthat.
I mean, that's the whole thing.
That's my whole.
Goal is to help people so theydon't have to keep coming in.
It's not that it shouldn't bean addiction.
It shouldn't be that you haveto be reliant on a doctor or a
drug to feel good.
Your health is in your ownhands.
(16:19):
You have the power to healyourself.
I see my role as just there toremind you to get back into
homeostasis so you can healyourself.
I see my role as just there toremind you to get back into
homeostasis so you can healyourself.
I like to be out of the roomwhen that healing is going on.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I love that.
I couldn't agree more.
That's why I give all myclients an app like with
meditations to help themactivate the healer that's
already within them, because waslike I don't want you to need
me.
I want you to know that, likeI'm there if you, if you get in
trouble, but like I want you tofeel empowered to listen to your
(16:53):
body so that you know what itneeds and that's definitely
that's my yeah, because we dohave the ability to heal
ourselves.
And, um, I don't think mostpeople know that, or it's just
that there's so muchmisinformation out there.
It's really hard to know whatyou specifically need.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Because it's so many lies.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And the body is calling out to us.
Just like we were talking aboutearlier of me being resistant
to my own path, our body istelling us what it needs, right,
if we learn to listen.
There are certain points in thebody, which we now call
acupressure points, that call tous.
Hey, I'm achy for a reason, soif you put pressure there, it's
(17:37):
actually helping open the energyflow so that I can heal myself.
So that's one of the thingsthat I love about what I do is
that it it is based on thissystem that is so integral I
(17:58):
don't even know how to say it.
But yeah, basically all you'rehaving to do is access these
points, stimulate these points,and it reminds the body how to
heal, and I get out of the way,essentially, and the body's just
doing the work.
It's, it's, and it's more thanthe body.
Obviously there's energy thereand spirit involved as well.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Um which I love, because I think that in people
think it's like um magic, it'slike it's no, it's the wisdom of
your body.
It's we're just reminding itwhat it needs to do to function
in the way that it was designed,and most of the people that I
worked with just lost connectionto that.
(18:43):
They just either were nevertaught it or they just lost it
somewhere because of stress ortrauma or you know things that
got in the way, and addictionsas well.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So, but you know, yeah, and so many distractions
and, and yeah, I think ourcurrent digital world distracts
us from being present withourselves too right, there's so
many different things that do somuch so and like I like walk
around and I see all the forwardhead posture and I'm like,
don't, doesn't the world realize?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
that's like contributing to depression and
anxiety in like a massive waybecause of where the head is
sitting in space.
Like it's like it's such aneasy fix, but like everyone
wants to chase a pill orsomething like that and it's
like, well, maybe if your headwas on right, like we wouldn't
have anxiety running the showfor teenagers, because their
heads are always like in thatcute up spot but always looking
(19:38):
down, yeah and like it actuallysends a chemical to the brain
that triggers anxiety anddepression and low self-esteem.
So our whole world is set up ina way that triggers the disease,
that creates the medicine tosell it, and it's a loop that
makes me frustrated.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
So right, exactly, and, and so how do we get out of
that?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
um, and that's, that's that's what you and I are
here to remind each other andothers how to do right, and yeah
, um it's funny because, youknow, I was watching this
documentary on twitter and inthe, the downfall of twitter,
basically what, what ruined itand it was.
(20:23):
So there was this scene wherethey brought back the original
ceo and he started telling hishis employees you've got to
drink lemon water with sea saltin the morning to activate your
hydration.
I tell this to all of myclients.
I'm listening to him.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I drink this every morning.
My patients the same thing,it's life.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And then he told them to meditate and the documentary
spun it in a way where it wasmaking him sound crazy.
And I was what, and I'm likewhat, what?
And the employees were like hehad the audacity to come in and
tell us we needed to drink thislemon water with salts in the
(21:05):
morning.
And I was like, because hecares about you, what?
I mean, I don't want to talkabout the politics of twitter or
anything like that, but theywere angry that she had the
audacity to tell them tomeditate and to hydrate and I
was like because it makes youmore productive, it makes you
more efficient.
When you're not in a state offight, flight or freeze, you can
(21:27):
think more clearly, you havebetter ideas and strategies, you
work better together, likeyou're in your parasympathetic
nervous system, so you'reactually able to heal, rest and
digest it was so interestingthat that was the thing that
they were villainizing him aboutand I thought like because what
?
what made?
What made me think about?
It was like how are we supposedto change a society?
(21:48):
That, like, when even one of aceo comes in and tells his staff
that and then they're like, ohhe's crazy, he wants us to
hydrate and meditate, and I'mlike like where do you begin
shifting that culture to notthinking that's weird, but just
that is normal, like yeah, Ireally think it comes down to to
(22:10):
education and then people beingaware of what happens when they
, when they do feel good andthey do get out in nature and
they do meditate and they dodrink lemon water and eat good
food yeah and compare that, tocontrast that to the stressful,
(22:33):
you know, lifestyle that we'retaught to lead on a daily basis.
Yeah, and it's like if I've beenlistening to the WildFit
program and he was saying EricMeads, he's a really big
advocate for the natural healthmovement.
And he said count how manytimes you are advertised to to
(22:58):
eat on the way to work.
Just count.
And it was like oh my gosh,especially with our phones, we
are constantly being triggeredinto addictive behaviors,
constantly, and I made me sadCause I was like I started
counting and I was like, oh mygosh, it's so many, it's so many
.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, our attention is a superpower.
Where we focus, where weconcentrate, is incredibly
powerful, and that's beingthat's being taken away from us,
so we need to bring it back.
Um, and that's that's how wecan heal ourselves, that's how
(23:41):
we can connect with one another.
Is one-on-one attention witheach other and others.
Um, yeah, and nature um, superimportant.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, it's very healing.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Um, yeah, but that really speaks to that first
pillar of lifestyle.
So I I didn't get to go overthe next two pillars yet, so we,
we, um that you got me all likeoh, I got super excited.
Um, so the third pillar ismovement and the importance of
movement right and how we canheal ourselves through movement.
(24:16):
So in Chinese medicine theyhave something called Qigong,
which just means qi work, so howto fill ourselves with qi, or
vital force and energy.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I want to talk about this for a minute because I have
a lot of younger guys that comein and they have a lot of like
trapped anger in their bodiesand I always tell them like
that's gonna kill you whenyou're older, so qigong.
I always say, go do qigong,like it'll help you move that
trapped emotion out of your bodyand it's extremely empowering
(24:54):
yes, qigong is an ancientmovement art from china.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Tai chi comes out of it.
Right, where you have these,these longer forms?
Qigong can be very short form,it can be a long form as well,
um, but it opens the meridian,the chi flow in the meridians,
and open circulation, but canhelp release emotions and
(25:22):
rebalance us.
Um and I, it truly is a selfhealing movement technique.
I, I consider it movementmeditation.
You're bringing concentrationand focus to movement and you're
combining those two things,which is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, do you think that would help with this kind
of like modern issue with focusthat we're experiencing now at a
greater rate?
Like adhd addd, you know thosetypes of things.
Do you think that would make?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
most definitely.
It makes you slow down, it getsyou off your phone.
Uh, hopefully you're, you know.
I mean, hopefully you're notlooking at your phone while
you're doing qigong.
I I recommend finding a reallive teacher and doing it with a
real live teacher.
But the next best thing is if,if you have to go through Zoom
or YouTube, sure, but try topractice on your own or in a
(26:24):
group.
It's incredibly empowering and,yes, it does fully cultivate
concentration and help get us inone mindedness right Because
you're, you're thinking aboutthis movement.
You're doing, you're you'reworking on observing your breath
, just like in meditation, butyou're moving.
(26:45):
You're moving and meditating atthe same time.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Oh yeah, I have this one where you go up on your toes
and then pull your arms downand you exhale really fast.
That I started doing while I'mmaking my coffee in the morning
and it's like.
It's such a great, energizinglike way to get up and get your
body just ready for the day.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
For sure, I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, I mean I started doing a Qigong class on
Mind, on mind valley, which islike a personal development
program on my phone, but like Ijust used it because I've never
had time to go find a there's anincredible teacher here in
portland, leo.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
She's a real master from china, her and her brother,
leo dong um.
I got to train with them andactually went with him to china,
but they're incredible teachers, oh nice, are you still
teaching qigong, or do?
You um, I I'm not teaching noum teaching some meditation, but
(27:46):
not qigong at this time oh,what kind of meditation.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Are you teaching?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
um the tradition of the japanese, um it's full moon
meditation, a particularmeditation that I learned when I
lived in japan oh nice are youdoing?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
do you do that online ?
Do you do that in person?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
online.
So through through, throughzoom uh yeah, yeah, and it's
mostly through my son's aikidodojo.
So oh nice that community.
But other people are welcome aswell right now.
Yeah, people from all over thecountry zooming in, which is fun
.
Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Maybe, if you have information I could share it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
For sure, I'm not the host, the Aikido teacher is.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But yeah yeah, yeah, very nice, I love it.
It's funny, I used to thinkmeditation was an excuse to take
naps that people lied about.
I didn't even let energy workin my clinic.
I was like, nope, nope, we'renot having any of that nonsense.
And then I did it and my wholeperspective changed.
(28:53):
And then I did it and my wholeperspective changed.
And now I meditate like a lotand I love it and I feel younger
and more energetic and morevibrant.
Even I always show peoplepictures of me from 10 years ago
and I'm like I look younger nowthan I did 10 years ago and I
haven't.
It's because of the meditationand lifestyle changes, but
(29:15):
mostly meditation that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I need to regulate my mind and be the be in charge of
it so right.
It's incredible for mentalhealth and for general health,
meditation is so powerful whatis it if you had to explain it
to a newbie who's nevermeditated and thinks it's dumb?
(29:40):
What, how would you?
How, what would be like what?
The simplest way to explain whyit's helpful, like why it's the
number, maybe number three, twothing they should add into
their day besides water.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, do you, do you want to experience inner peace
Because it allows us to do that,or do you always want to feel
stressed?
I mean, it's, it's reallythere's a dichotomy, and I feel
like meditation allows us tofeel stressed.
I mean, it's really there's adichotomy, and I feel like
meditation allows us to feelthis inner peace and get in
touch with ourself in a way thatI don't know anything else that
(30:28):
allows that.
Right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's funny Cause, like when I'm talking to my
clients, I always say, like if Icould get you meditating and
hydrated, you probably wouldn'tneed me very often.
And they say, oh, I've triedmeditation, it doesn't work for
me.
I can't quiet my mind and I'mlike oh you don't have to.
I never have a quiet mind whenI'm meditating.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I know that's part of the practice yeah, like my mind
is amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
It is extremely creative and I love living up
there.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
So and sometimes your most creative ideas and
inspirations will come to you inthat state right so that's
another piece of it is.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
It's an incredible creative tool, creativity tool
oh yeah, and so I think it's away of activating your intuition
, like and definitely like toget to know what is right for
your body.
Like since I started usingmeditation for my health and and
using it like my intuition totell me what I need, I haven't
(31:32):
succumbed to like the industrysales pitches for my body.
Again it's like Nope, you justneed to follow this and this,
and that's how you're going tohit your goals.
And did the inner work torelease the baggage around
health, but that was my journey.
So yeah, so like, when I talkabout meditation, I'm always
(31:55):
like you don't have to have aquiet mind.
In fact, you might have areally noisy mind and that's
actually not a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Right, yeah, I'll tell a story about.
So you know my history aboutliving in Japan.
I lived in a Buddhist monasteryfor three years there, and so
when I first started meditating,we had to sit in the training
period.
So there was a year of training, intense training, where we
(32:22):
meditated nine hours a day.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So those that first two weeks to a month of sitting
for nine hours a day.
And it's not a Zen practicewhere you're trying to empty
your mind.
You're doing some rituals,you're doing some mantras,
you're sitting with certain hand, mudras or postures and you're
and you're doing some chanting,but when you're first doing that
(32:50):
, your mind is so busy it's likeyou're getting to sit with
yourself and look back ateverything you've done in your
life, right?
So you're flooded with memories.
You're flooded with oh wow,look how I did this in my life,
this experience, and look how Icould have done it differently.
(33:11):
So that first month was a verybusy mind time, but then it
starts kind of calming.
It's like waves, right, there'sfirst, there's all these waves
coming in, and then it starts oh, there's less and less waves
and I can really focus on eachwave or each thought or each
memory, whatever's coming up,and then it starts to become
(33:35):
more and more placid and calmand there is a place where there
is a quiet place.
That's just pure focus, justpure concentration, where you
can go anywhere you want andyou're not being controlled by
(33:56):
these memories or you're nothaving these things come up as
much.
But that takes immense amountof practice.
So to say that I don't know howto meditate or that I can't
meditate nobody's no, there's,nobody is is a professional at
it.
It's just a practice, just like.
Just like practicing basketballYou're not going to make every
(34:20):
shot.
You have to keep shooting Right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Well, and it's going to look different for everybody,
based on what their need is.
Like I had someone email textme this morning with a emergency
, like pain thing and I can'tget in today, but I'll send you
my app and just go listen to thepain meditation.
It'll help at least decrease itor give you the solution,
because your body will tell youwhat it needs.
(34:44):
So like I was like until I canget you into tomorrow.
So like they're all differentfor different reasons and
exactly everyone's experienceshould be different, like if
it's all the same, then that's.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I think that's not right, but, like you know, it
should all be different andunique for sure, and there's so
many different meditations thatcan help us in so many different
ways too right, and there's noright or wrong path or way to
practice.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, absolutely, it is like there is.
Yeah, there is no wrong way tomeditate.
It's just like you know whatyou need.
So that's why I like recordingthem now, because I have a lot
of fun with working with thedivine feminine goddesses.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Have you listened to any of them?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I haven't listened to any of them.
You gave me that awesomemeditation that I listened to
about cleaning your cottage, andI think that's a really
powerful meditation.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh, I think, for healers, especially like people
who work in healing arts, wedeal with people who are in so
much trauma and pain that,because pain is traumatizing in
and of itself, and then you know, we have to be able to clear
that their energy from our fieldat the end of the day,
otherwise it makes us sick.
So that was what I found formyself especially was that, you
(36:11):
know, working in with pain for along time, I started getting
sick and I didn't know what wasmine or what was other people's
anymore and I just felt likegarbage.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
so right, and that's part of, yeah, a good education.
Training for healers, I thinkshould include those techniques
at how not to hold on to ourpatients stuff, right, and how,
how to how to do that self-carestuff.
So we're not holding theirstuff but we're there for them,
(36:43):
you know, listening and andhelping in the ways that we can,
but not holding at all Right.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
That is, I think, probably the most important
thing they should be teaching inschool For people who are going
into the field.
It's how to not take on theirstuff but like how to let it go
at the end of the day.
Because I hear horrific storiesand I can hold space for people
and I don't get in it with themanymore right right same you
(37:14):
have to right most definitelypeople.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
You know we're like counselors.
People are opening up in waysthat and telling us things that
they haven't talked about beforeand you know, usually it's
often it's a very sad story,right.
Yeah, and and I think, yeah, we, we see so much burnout um with
health practitioners.
This is one of the things thatleads to it is carrying the
(37:39):
burden of our, of uh, that thepatient's suffering, right.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah.
I mean it's to me, I thinkprobably, if you want, cause
people always ask like cause themassage therapist average
career is less than five yearsand it's because they usually
destroy their body, becausethey're not working smart enough
, they're not working inalignment with what their body
needs, they don't haveboundaries with their clients
(38:06):
Like this total lack ofeducation around self-care with
their clients like this totallack of education around
self-care.
Um, and it's sad because it'ssuch a wonderful profession that
lacks the people in it, becausethey burn out too quickly right
, and acupuncture too.
Only 35 percent ofacupuncturists make it um that's
a long education to have only35 make it three plus year
(38:31):
education, three to six yeareducation, and wow, I didn't
know that was true foracupuncture as well.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
For sure, yeah, quite a few of us yeah don't make it
through.
So it's yeah, that piece is soimportant.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Self-care yeah, that, um, how do you do it?
How do you prioritize yourself-care?
I've I've just decided thatwe're gonna have two, two
episodes.
We're gonna do a separate oneon the fatherhood thing.
Okay, we're gonna post this onesooner, because I was like I
didn't realize we'd have so muchto talk to about.
So if that's okay with you,we'll do.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I would like to do the one on another episode.
Okay, good, so tell me about howyou, how, what your self-care
routine looks like and how thatbenefits your patients and you
and your family, right, so Ican't give if my cup's not full,
right, so, um, so I realizedthat at a fairly early time in
(39:37):
my practice, and so what I do isso, yeah, I, I, I practice
forms of qigong, I practicemeditation, I practice, I
exercise regularly, like threeto five days a week.
I exercise, I garden.
Garden is one of the biggestgrounding healing things for me.
(40:01):
I'm just being in touch withthe earth and growing things.
Um, I'm a beekeeper, so beingaround my bees, I find you are.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
How did I not know this?
Okay, I did not know.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I've been a beekeeper for 10 years now.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, so I got into my bees on Sunday.
I have two hives now.
I split one of my I had a bighive that overwintered this year
and then split it into two.
My bees help heal me.
So the vibration that they make, the humming that they make and
(40:39):
the smell of the honey and thepropolis is this incredibly
therapeutic thing just for me tobe around them.
Incredibly therapeutic thingjust for me to be around them.
So I, in the mornings, I'lloften go and sing to them a
little bit and then they sort ofI know this sounds weird it
does not sound weird to me youknow me this does not sound
(41:00):
weird to me, um I have weirdthings in my life all of the
time.
This does not sound weird beesare important to obviously
pollinating our plants like 60of the fruits and vegetables we
eat are pollinated by them.
But not only are they importantto that, but they're they're
(41:23):
vibrating on a level, they'rethey're so interconnected.
I learned so much from them.
Um, in in Eastern Europe, theyhave bee therapy houses, so they
put beehives in like a saunahouse, so the bees don't have
access to you, to you inside thehouse, they're just slid in
(41:45):
under the seats.
Um, and the vibration and thesmell they've found in eastern
europe, places like poland, uh,have been shown to be incredibly
healing for for people, um,especially with depression and
stress.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Um, so, was it because they're flapping and
they're like literally clearingenergy, as they're like their
energy is like just changing thevibrational frequency around
you?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Probably.
I don't know how it works.
I just know that when I spendtime with my bees, it's like
going to a sound bath, it's likemy vibration has changed.
It's like my vibration haschanged.
It's like listening to reallygood music, but also you're
getting an endorphin rush.
(42:36):
There's really incrediblearomas that they make from the
honey and the propolis as well.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
That is amazing.
No, I think that's so cool.
I'm like, wow, that is becauseso many people are afraid of
bees.
But I remember like just eventhinking about, like the meaning
of like certain things, likethere's, you know, like in the
shamanism there's a littlemeanings behind bees.
They're not like a bad omen atall, they're actually like, um,
(43:05):
I think it was when I keep, whenI always pull the b card, it's
always like where are you beingin busy work, instead of
intuition, like it's like workbut there's more, like they have
so many lessons to teach us,especially about like um the
hive and like working togetherand that connectedness and how,
when people are working, youknow, as in a unison, it's not a
(43:27):
bad thing, um, that it'sactually for the greater good
when it's for the greater goodof the divine feminine too, to
roll it back to you, becauseit's the queen who rules.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
The rules the hive oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
So I was just, we were just talking about this
before I got on and I I wassaying I have a passion for
helping women understand theirrole in keeping their families
together, because it's they're.
They're not doing it in a waythat's serving their families
and it's not their fault.
They've been sold a lie about alot of things, um and, but we
(44:03):
could talk about that in anotherepisode but like that is that
is for me.
Yeah, because I'm like we are somuch more responsible for
whether or not our families staytogether.
Um, then, we know, and it's notwhat we've been told.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
So right, so we can take lots of lessons from queen
bees in general.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I had no idea, yeah, so the healing properties of
honey, propolis, pollen, allthose things.
There's one other thing thatbees are incredible healers at
and that's called apotherapy.
So some acupuncturists use beeson acupressure points, use the
(44:47):
stings so that the histaminethat's released into the body
makes our immune system respond.
So if there's a sore shoulderthat somebody has arthritis in,
if you sting that area, thenthere's inflammation caused,
(45:09):
caused right from the histaminebeing released.
If they're not allergic to beesfirst, of course, then your
immune system has to go meetthat that toxin that's been
released into your body andthereby heals it.
It's only almost like ahomeopathic dose of some sort of
(45:29):
toxin that you're injectinginto your body.
Acupuncture works the sameexact way, by the way, where
we're doing a micro attack onthe body.
So our immune system has to gomeet it.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Well that makes total sense to me, because what I've
seen with people who have atrauma, a body trauma, is their
brain just dissociates from thatsection, like where we go in
and reactivate it.
And sometimes I'll go in andlike test and I'm like your
brain doesn't even register thatthis foot is here.
That's the problem, right.
So that makes total sense to me.
(46:02):
Like I just don't use bees, Iuse pressure points or like
exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
I don't use bees either.
I've had some practitionersfrom eastern europe ask me to,
or some patients ask me to um.
There are practitioners in asiawho who just use bees um, or
acupuncture um that's so coolit's.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
It's a thing, check it out don't think I could
convince my daughter because ifthere's to be anywhere near her
she's freaking out and likescreaming off.
But I think that's amazing.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
So going back to self-care, that's one of my
things I do.
I love being in water, so wateris incredibly healing for me.
It feels like home for me.
So if I can swim, oh, um, if Ican do things like sauna, um and
cold plunge, um, or hot springs, that's incredibly healing for
(47:00):
me.
So I I make a point ofscheduling throughout the year,
different times, that I'm doingthat.
In fact, next Friday I'm doingsome sauna and cold plunge.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I, I keep trying, but there's just no way I can
convince my body that coldplunging is good for it.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I, I, I, I, I believe in challenging ourselves right
Like pushing our boundaries andour comfort zones, and for me, I
get this incredible endorphinrelease from it and it helps,
(47:45):
yeah, my self-care.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I believe that I know that there's benefits to it and
I'm I'm working up towards it.
Sometimes I'll get in theshower in the morning after the
gym and I'll go in and it's coldand I'm like I like it, I'll
breathe through it and I'm like,okay, you're not gonna die,
it's fine.
But yeah, that's the.
That's one of the harder onesfor me, I think it's hard, it's
really hard um, well, becauseyou also are, like um a business
(48:11):
owner, like you're in yourbusiness.
You're very active in ournetworking group, which is
awesome.
Um what, like what if you were?
Just because we're going to goahead and um wrap up soon so
that I honor our time.
Um, if you were to, let's dothis instead.
If you were to, to convincesomeone who's like I don't want
to go get acupuncture because itwould hurt, like I'm afraid of
(48:34):
needles and all of the things.
What is the, the number onething that could benefit them,
like if they're struggling withsomething like what is one of
the things that you treat mostoften with great success that,
like other, maybe moretraditional paths, don't don't
even touch at the level thatacupuncture can um, well, um, I
(48:59):
think other modalities touch itas well, but, um, definitely for
some pain.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
That's um for, for for pain.
It can help release pain inincredible ways.
Um, but yeah, instead of justone, that's also stress, because
it releases endorphins in thebody.
Um, it helps calm and relax us,so it can help reduce pain
through those endorphins beingreleased and through that
(49:26):
circulation being opened up.
Um, but it also for stress.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
It's an incredible therapy well, stress creates
pain, like the two are notseparate, and like there's a
book that was just written by.
It's called the way out, andit's this neuroscientist who's
educating people about theaddictive patterns to pain in
their brain and how it's reallydifficult to get out of pain
(49:54):
once you've been in it for threemonths, because now the brain
has an addictive strategy ofcreating more pain and it
doesn't know how to get out ofit and so things like
acupuncture, I think are greatfor helping break that pattern
in the body.
So yeah, that's huge in treatingpain and also like the
(50:14):
obviously the you know hands-onpieces of like releasing the
actual pain triggers and thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, yeah.
The theory in Chinese medicineis where there's pain or stress,
there's a blockage of the flowof energy.
So that's why we have thesemeridian systems.
There's 12 main meridians thatgo across the body and we select
different acupressure points toopen up the flow.
(50:42):
So if you think of a dam on ariver that the water is not
flowing through, it's blocked.
Think of a dam on a river thatthe water's not flowing through,
it's blocked.
Um, there's going to be somepain points downstream where
they're not getting enough water.
So to reopen that up, then youhave less pain, it's.
It's that's what we do withacupuncture cupping therapy very
(51:05):
effective it's.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
I think it's very effective.
I mean, I used it, obviouslywhen I was in a car accident.
I saw you twice a week, so itwas, I think, and actually I was
um telling Chris yesterday whenwe're at the meeting that um,
that I think is one of thethings that got me through one
of the hardest years of my life,because my marriage was falling
apart at the same time and Iwas in massage school and it was
(51:31):
like it.
I think that the car accident,although horrible, was a little
bit of a blessing, because I gotlike two acupuncture
appointments a week and twomassages a week and it helped
keep me out of that likecomplete, you know, mental
breakdown from you know, havingsomething big like that happen
(51:52):
in your life definitely.
Yeah, some interesting howsometimes an injury can be a
healing opportunity, right yeah,I would have never gotten that
kind of care for myself throughmy divorce, like that, like I
wouldn't have made the time forthat, right, because who has
time for that?
But, um, because I was in my uhcar accident and I knew I
(52:15):
needed my body to work because Iwas in massage school, uh, I
was like I don't have a choice,like I, I have to to prioritize
it.
And it was being paid forbecause in oregon we get, you
know that covered under our autoinsurance, which is amazing.
Um, but yeah, so this was somuch fun and we can talk for
hours.
I was like okay, well, you'regonna be a regular guest.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
I'm like, well, I hope I didn't go off on too many
tangents, so I really likespending time together and
talking together, so I reallyappreciate you, tabitha oh, I
appreciate you too and, like the, just the influence you've had
on my life over the years hasbeen amazing.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
And at bni, which is our, like the networking group
that erin and I go to to supportour, you know, local small
businesses, um, everyone standsup every week in testimony to
you in a way that is with somuch respect for what you give
them and freedom in their bodythat it may.
(53:15):
It makes me so proud to likeknow that, like we have such an
amazing human in in our chapter.
Obviously that is so passionateabout helping people feel good
and that's like such a callingright.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
That's very kind of you.
And it's not just one amazinghuman in the chapter.
We have an amazing group ofhumans.
That's what's so beautifulabout this group right now is
it's such a dynamic group ofamazing people right now, and
you being one of them, so Ireally, really love everything
you bring to the world as well.
Um, you've helped teach me howto be a better person in this
(53:57):
world.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
You're an inspiration , so thank you thank you, that's
really kind all right.
Well, um, I'm gonna go aheadand close off.
I'm gonna put a link to your,your website, if anyone's
interested in booking with you.
Just to say it out loud,because they're just listening
along.
How do people find you?
How do they book an appointment?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, just booking through my website is the
easiest way wwwaomhealthcom.
There's a little book nowbutton.
That's the best way to book anappointment.
If you have questions, you canwrite emails there as well.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
And you work with insurance right.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Is that right?
I do so.
Most Oregon insurance companies, the bigger insurance companies
I'm in network with, mostdefinitely yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Excellent and well.
Thank you again.
I'm so happy that we got tochat and I'm going to look
forward to having you back forour Father's Day special,
because I really want to getyour take on parenting in the
modern world and also to haveyou and your dad on, because you
guys have such a beautifulconnection that I just think
(55:08):
it's really inspiring and I lookforward to telling that story.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
I look forward to it as well.
So thank you so much for theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah, my pleasure.
Thank you everyone and we willsee you next week.
I am very excited to have a very special guest on the
Soma Flow podcast today.
His name is Aram Levandosky.
He's an acupuncturist, aholistic healthcare practitioner
and a dad who has been stickingpeople where it hurts for over
15 years.
I should have put that afterthe acupuncturist, not the dad,
(00:20):
but we'll talk about that.
So today we're going to talkabout the journey to following
your soul's path and fatherhoodin the modern world.
Welcome, Aram, I'm very excitedto have you on the podcast
today.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thank you, tabitha.
It's great to be here.
I'm excited to be here, that'sgood.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Aram and I have a unique and special history.
Uh, we met at a, oh a seniorfair at the YMCA in Sherwood,
and I don't know if I've evertold you this, but you're the
reason I started my business,soma Massage, and uh, no, I
didn't know that oh, I'll haveto tell you this really quick
because we're going to talkabout universal intervention on
(01:04):
today's call too, and I was at astruggle point about whether or
not to go back to corporateAmerica or open Soma Massage,
and you had referred someone tome and right at the moment I
asked she called At the exactmoment, her name was Julie, yeah
, and she said I was referred toyou by Aram and I would like to
(01:27):
book a massage.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And I said, oh well, that was fast, because I had
literally just thrown my handsin the air and was like I don't
know what to do fairlyintroverted at the time and just
putting myself out therebecause I was doing free ear
(01:48):
acupuncture demonstrations totry to cultivate and you know,
get my name out there as far asbeing a business owner in the
area and cultivate some patients.
So me being there was a realpush for myself as well.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh, I love it because I won a free acupuncture
appointment with you and then Igot in a car accident like a
week later, so it ended up beinghighly profitable, right?
Because, like I mean, you know,mbas oh yeah yeah, and then it
was amazing.
So that was definitely flow iswhat I would call it Universal
flow Most definitely, and nowit's like 15 years later.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Right yeah, and we're still doing what we were doing.
Yes, and we've grown in so manyways as well.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So many ways and let's talk about that because
you didn't want to be anacupuncturist.
Right, tell me the story,because I really want to hear
how you became an acupuncturist,right, like, tell me the story,
because I really want to hearhow you became an acupuncturist.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, it's a fairly long story so I'll try to keep
it short.
But my parents raised me opento holistic medicine.
They always had a wonderfulgarden so we ate a lot of
vegetables and taught my parentsespecially my dad, taught us
how to cook.
(03:07):
He was a healer in his ownright.
He would practice touch forhealth on me and shiatsu on me
growing up, and then he wouldhave me practice on him.
So I was interested in healthfrom a very early age.
So in high school we had to jobshadow somebody in a career for
(03:28):
two weeks.
So we followed somebody aroundin their career and I was the
last person to pick and therewere two names on the list.
One was a graphic designer andone was an acupuncturist, and at
that time I was super needlephobic.
I would feel faint if I had ablood draw or something like
(03:49):
that.
So I definitely didn't want tobe with the acupuncturist.
That was not at all who Iwanted to be matched with.
So I chose to be with thegraphic designer.
I actually enjoyed art and Ithought, well, maybe this would
be something that I'm interestedin.
She was super busy and said I'msorry, but I'm not able to take
(04:10):
on, you know, an intern orsomebody to follow me around for
two weeks.
So I was forced to be with thisacupuncturist.
His name was Dan Kenner.
He's an incredible person.
Unfortunately he passed awaylast year.
He was one of the firstWesterners to go train in Japan,
(04:31):
and so he's a very interestingperson.
Obviously fluent in Japanese,he's written many books.
He's also a naturopath, so he'sa double licensed acupuncturist
and a naturopath.
So I was introduced toacupuncture through him.
He had a home clinic and he wassomebody who really walked the
(04:56):
talk.
He believed and believed in themedicine.
It was his passion.
So he ate an incredibly healthydiet, he exercised daily and he
meditated regularly, and thenhe also had this holistic health
practice.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
That is amazing Cause .
I love that you said that,because I think a lot of the
time when we go like even when Iwalk into the doctor's office,
which I don't go to very oftenbut they look sick Like the
people were and I'm like I don'tfeel like that.
That doesn't inspire me.
So I love that you said hewalks the walk, because I think
when you're looking for apractitioner you want someone
(05:39):
who uses their own medicine, youknow, Most definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, so uses their own medicine.
You know, most definitely.
Yeah, um, so he was the firstone.
He said we're going to startwith just doing one acupuncture
point on you, and so he did thispoint here that most people
know for a headache.
It's called hagu or largeintestine four.
So he did that point on me witha thin japanese needle.
I didn't feel faint, I didn'thave excruciating pain like I
(06:08):
was expecting from acupuncture.
In fact, I started feelingreally good, like my gosh.
I feel like my circulation'sopening up and I feel like
something's going on in my bodythat I'm not used to.
So I became more curious aboutit.
I still at that time didn'tthink I wanted to be an
(06:28):
acupuncturist because I stillhad some of that phobia.
So okay, but I did get to bewith him for two weeks and he
later in my life became quite amentor.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Amazing.
Yeah became quite a mentor,amazing.
Yeah, I love it when theuniverse lays a foundation or a
groundwork for something that'sgoing to happen later in life,
and then it makes sense laterand it's like, oh, that's why
that had to happen, so that thatcould happen.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Most definitely.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
He laid down a foundation that at first I was
really resistant to, and then Iended up following in his
footsteps in a way.
So I ended up going to Japan aswell and experiencing
acupuncture there as well.
I didn't train there in thesame way, but I lived next door
to an acupuncturist there andlearned a lot from that fellow
(07:23):
as well acupuncturist there andlearned a lot from that fellow
as well.
So I just had so many differentsort of reintroductions to it
that it kept it kept kind ofbeing in my background and
saying, hey, this is somethingyou should look at, and it's
almost like it kind of slappedme in the face multiple times
and say, hey, what are you doing?
(07:43):
You should, you should bepracticing this medicine as well
.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I like to call that a spiritual bitch slap.
I just gets a little bit.
It gets a little bit louderwhen you don't listen and I and
I didn't listen over and over.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So, uh, for for for a while, right, and then
eventually, um, yeah, my ownpain brought me back to the
medicine, and that's thatacupuncture and Chinese medicine
is what cured my pain.
And then, okay, there's reallysomething here.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So, I you know it's funny when I was teaching
massage full-time, almosteverybody in massage school said
I joined because a massagetherapist helped me out of pain
and I want to do the same forother people.
And I think that that is likehow a lot of healers come in to
their gifts.
It's not having lived a lifethat's painless, it's the pain
(08:40):
that drove them into wanting tohelp other people experience the
relief that they had.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So most definitely.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Tell me how you've expanded it now, because you do
a lot more than just needles.
Like, if you're talking topeople who really didn't know
anything about acupuncture, likewhat is it?
How was the expansiveness ofthe holistic health approach?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah.
So Chinese medicine really isfounded on four pillars,
acupuncture being really thelast thing that you're going to
use as far as healing.
So the first first is islifestyle.
So living a healthy lifestylethat engenders health.
So living a healthy lifestylethat engenders health, so that's
(09:24):
really the foundation.
So there's diets included inthat, herbs are included in that
, and keeping your stress at amild level, but also getting
(09:44):
good sleep is really importantto that.
In Chinese medicine they followthe seasons really closely.
So eating seasonally, stayingwarm in winter and preserving
one's energy in winter is reallyimportant, and starting to
expand that in springtime andthen fully expand your energy
and being more active in summer,but then starting to bring that
(10:06):
back in in fall um, so justfollowing the natural cycles is
really important.
The next step is body work.
So if there, if there's animbalance in the body and what I
mean by imbalance so chinesemedicine is based on yin and
yang um, so when one of one ofthem is out of balance or one of
(10:26):
them is deficient, then we wantto bring bring them back into
balance.
That's how, what createshomeostasis in the body and
allows us to heal fully.
So next we bring in body workif the lifestyle is a little out
of balance, okay.
So we do things like cupping orsomething called Twina or
Shiatsu some different massagetechniques that you know so much
(10:49):
about and cupping therapy is ahuge part of what I do.
I work on about 80% of mypatients with cupping Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
You taught it to me.
You're the reason I introducedit at my clinic, because I
enjoyed it.
And then I think a lot ofmassage therapists have used
cupping.
Actually, I have these I'mcheating with these like little
electronic cups that I keep onmy desk in case I need it.
But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So many different practitioners are using cupping
now.
It's wonderful it's beenrevitalized.
It used to be an incredibletherapy that was used around the
world.
Every single continent in theworld has a cupping tradition.
It's not just from China.
Africa has a cupping tradition,central South America, the
(11:38):
Middle East.
Europe has a tradition incupping, so I have patients from
all over the world who arereally excited that I do cupping
.
I have a patient right now fromUkraine and she said my
grandmother used to do cuppingon me.
I have a patient from Tunisiawho said a very similar thing,
and patients from Mexico andCentral America who would say
(11:59):
that healers down there would docupping on them.
So it's, it's an old worldtradition that's getting
revitalized.
It moves the chi in the body,so our energy, and it also helps
open circulation.
So different from massage whereyou're putting pressure down on
(12:21):
the body.
It's pulling up on the body, soit's really good for adhesions
in the muscle, for helpingrelieve those and also pulling
toxins out of the body as well.
It's an incredible therapy.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh, I love it.
When I first started workingout this year, I bought those.
They're like battery operatedones and I would sit in my like
in my bed just going like, oh mygod, everything hurts, because
it had been a while since I wasexercising for sure they were so
helpful.
They have been so helpful.
Even on my road trip toCalifornia with my daughter, or
(12:54):
Arizona.
I used them in the car becauseI was like it's a long drive, so
right, right.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Post-workout is an incredible therapy.
Pulling out lactic acid,opening up joints that are stiff
.
Cupping is incredible forreducing pain.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So many athletes are using it today isn't that
amazing how, like, everyone'scircling back to just what works
instead of getting okay, it'slike no, this just works.
Like it's been around forthousands of years because I
don't know it's effective.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So like right, yeah, over 5 000 years for for chinese
medicine, um, cupping therapywould go even farther than that.
So tibet has a tradition ofcupping.
They use a metal bowl.
In africa they use horns, soanimal horns.
The practitioner actually sucksthe suction or creates the
(13:46):
suction.
Those traditions go.
I don't even know how far backright, they're just thousands of
years that's so.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That's like I just think that there is this massive
movement of returning to morenatural and holistic health,
because I've heard this quote sooften it's we don't have a
health care system, we have asick care system, and I think
people are tired of it.
Like I mean, I was just evenwith some of my older clients
and I'm just I just educate themabout hydration and they're
(14:17):
like nobody told me this and I'mlike no, you were the
generation that grew up withmarketing, so they actually
profited on you drinking cokeand milk.
So, like you, your, your wholeunconscious programming is
embedded with sales.
And so, yeah, I don't know,it's frustrating when I'm like
(14:40):
getting someone to just drinkwater is like the biggest
challenge and the biggest impacton their health, and it's
fascinating that, like that'sjust not the, the basics that
are handed out.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So most definitely and especially water.
Right, we're almost 80 percentwater and our whole neurological
system, which is an electricalsystem, needs water to operate
right yes yeah, it's interesting.
Uh, yeah, it is.
It is one of the difficultparts of what we do is educating
us, especially when people havedifferent ideas about things
(15:13):
and and uh, yeah, yeah it's hardto undo what sales and
marketing has done like mean.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
For me, that's.
My biggest challenge is likeundoing the like lies that you
know people have been sold tomake money.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And then also those things become habits too, right.
And how?
How do they relearn a habit?
And often they're an addictivehabit too, if it's, if it's
sodas, right.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
It's all addiction.
Yeah, if it's.
If it's sodas right or um, it'sall addiction yeah because it's
just it.
Yeah, it's addictive.
Things make money, and so itmakes me angry that our health
is being compromised for capitalgain.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
But like that's, that's a whole nother topic, but
I have a real quick piece onthat.
I mean, that's the whole thing.
That's my whole.
Goal is to help people so theydon't have to keep coming in.
It's not that it shouldn't bean addiction.
It shouldn't be that you haveto be reliant on a doctor or a
drug to feel good.
Your health is in your ownhands.
(16:19):
You have the power to healyourself.
I see my role as just there toremind you to get back into
homeostasis so you can healyourself.
I see my role as just there toremind you to get back into
homeostasis so you can healyourself.
I like to be out of the roomwhen that healing is going on.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I love that.
I couldn't agree more.
That's why I give all myclients an app like with
meditations to help themactivate the healer that's
already within them, because waslike I don't want you to need
me.
I want you to know that, likeI'm there if you, if you get in
trouble, but like I want you tofeel empowered to listen to your
(16:53):
body so that you know what itneeds and that's definitely
that's my yeah, because we dohave the ability to heal
ourselves.
And, um, I don't think mostpeople know that, or it's just
that there's so muchmisinformation out there.
It's really hard to know whatyou specifically need.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Because it's so many lies.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And the body is calling out to us.
Just like we were talking aboutearlier of me being resistant
to my own path, our body istelling us what it needs, right,
if we learn to listen.
There are certain points in thebody, which we now call
acupressure points, that call tous.
Hey, I'm achy for a reason, soif you put pressure there, it's
(17:37):
actually helping open the energyflow so that I can heal myself.
So that's one of the thingsthat I love about what I do is
that it it is based on thissystem that is so integral I
(17:58):
don't even know how to say it.
But yeah, basically all you'rehaving to do is access these
points, stimulate these points,and it reminds the body how to
heal, and I get out of the way,essentially, and the body's just
doing the work.
It's, it's, and it's more thanthe body.
Obviously there's energy thereand spirit involved as well.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Um which I love, because I think that in people
think it's like um magic, it'slike it's no, it's the wisdom of
your body.
It's we're just reminding itwhat it needs to do to function
in the way that it was designed,and most of the people that I
worked with just lost connectionto that.
(18:43):
They just either were nevertaught it or they just lost it
somewhere because of stress ortrauma or you know things that
got in the way, and addictionsas well.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So, but you know, yeah, and so many distractions
and, and yeah, I think ourcurrent digital world distracts
us from being present withourselves too right, there's so
many different things that do somuch so and like I like walk
around and I see all the forwardhead posture and I'm like,
don't, doesn't the world realize?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
that's like contributing to depression and
anxiety in like a massive waybecause of where the head is
sitting in space.
Like it's like it's such aneasy fix, but like everyone
wants to chase a pill orsomething like that and it's
like, well, maybe if your headwas on right, like we wouldn't
have anxiety running the showfor teenagers, because their
heads are always like in thatcute up spot but always looking
(19:38):
down, yeah and like it actuallysends a chemical to the brain
that triggers anxiety anddepression and low self-esteem.
So our whole world is set up ina way that triggers the disease,
that creates the medicine tosell it, and it's a loop that
makes me frustrated.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
So right, exactly, and, and so how do we get out of
that?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
um, and that's, that's that's what you and I are
here to remind each other andothers how to do right, and yeah
, um it's funny because, youknow, I was watching this
documentary on twitter and inthe, the downfall of twitter,
basically what, what ruined itand it was.
(20:23):
So there was this scene wherethey brought back the original
ceo and he started telling hishis employees you've got to
drink lemon water with sea saltin the morning to activate your
hydration.
I tell this to all of myclients.
I'm listening to him.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I drink this every morning.
My patients the same thing,it's life.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And then he told them to meditate and the documentary
spun it in a way where it wasmaking him sound crazy.
And I was what, and I'm likewhat, what?
And the employees were like hehad the audacity to come in and
tell us we needed to drink thislemon water with salts in the
(21:05):
morning.
And I was like, because hecares about you, what?
I mean, I don't want to talkabout the politics of twitter or
anything like that, but theywere angry that she had the
audacity to tell them tomeditate and to hydrate and I
was like because it makes youmore productive, it makes you
more efficient.
When you're not in a state offight, flight or freeze, you can
(21:27):
think more clearly, you havebetter ideas and strategies, you
work better together, likeyou're in your parasympathetic
nervous system, so you'reactually able to heal, rest and
digest it was so interestingthat that was the thing that
they were villainizing him aboutand I thought like because what
?
what made?
What made me think about?
It was like how are we supposedto change a society?
(21:48):
That, like, when even one of aceo comes in and tells his staff
that and then they're like, ohhe's crazy, he wants us to
hydrate and meditate, and I'mlike like where do you begin
shifting that culture to notthinking that's weird, but just
that is normal, like yeah, Ireally think it comes down to to
(22:10):
education and then people beingaware of what happens when they
, when they do feel good andthey do get out in nature and
they do meditate and they dodrink lemon water and eat good
food yeah and compare that, tocontrast that to the stressful,
(22:33):
you know, lifestyle that we'retaught to lead on a daily basis.
Yeah, and it's like if I've beenlistening to the WildFit
program and he was saying EricMeads, he's a really big
advocate for the natural healthmovement.
And he said count how manytimes you are advertised to to
(22:58):
eat on the way to work.
Just count.
And it was like oh my gosh,especially with our phones, we
are constantly being triggeredinto addictive behaviors,
constantly, and I made me sadCause I was like I started
counting and I was like, oh mygosh, it's so many, it's so many
.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, our attention is a superpower.
Where we focus, where weconcentrate, is incredibly
powerful, and that's beingthat's being taken away from us,
so we need to bring it back.
Um, and that's that's how wecan heal ourselves, that's how
(23:41):
we can connect with one another.
Is one-on-one attention witheach other and others.
Um, yeah, and nature um, superimportant.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, it's very healing.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Um, yeah, but that really speaks to that first
pillar of lifestyle.
So I I didn't get to go overthe next two pillars yet, so we,
we, um that you got me all likeoh, I got super excited.
Um, so the third pillar ismovement and the importance of
movement right and how we canheal ourselves through movement.
(24:16):
So in Chinese medicine theyhave something called Qigong,
which just means qi work, so howto fill ourselves with qi, or
vital force and energy.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I want to talk about this for a minute because I have
a lot of younger guys that comein and they have a lot of like
trapped anger in their bodiesand I always tell them like
that's gonna kill you whenyou're older, so qigong.
I always say, go do qigong,like it'll help you move that
trapped emotion out of your bodyand it's extremely empowering
(24:54):
yes, qigong is an ancientmovement art from china.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Tai chi comes out of it.
Right, where you have these,these longer forms?
Qigong can be very short form,it can be a long form as well,
um, but it opens the meridian,the chi flow in the meridians,
and open circulation, but canhelp release emotions and
(25:22):
rebalance us.
Um and I, it truly is a selfhealing movement technique.
I, I consider it movementmeditation.
You're bringing concentrationand focus to movement and you're
combining those two things,which is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, do you think that would help with this kind
of like modern issue with focusthat we're experiencing now at a
greater rate?
Like adhd addd, you know thosetypes of things.
Do you think that would make?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
most definitely.
It makes you slow down, it getsyou off your phone.
Uh, hopefully you're, you know.
I mean, hopefully you're notlooking at your phone while
you're doing qigong.
I I recommend finding a reallive teacher and doing it with a
real live teacher.
But the next best thing is if,if you have to go through Zoom
or YouTube, sure, but try topractice on your own or in a
(26:24):
group.
It's incredibly empowering and,yes, it does fully cultivate
concentration and help get us inone mindedness right Because
you're, you're thinking aboutthis movement.
You're doing, you're you'reworking on observing your breath
, just like in meditation, butyou're moving.
(26:45):
You're moving and meditating atthe same time.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Oh yeah, I have this one where you go up on your toes
and then pull your arms downand you exhale really fast.
That I started doing while I'mmaking my coffee in the morning
and it's like.
It's such a great, energizinglike way to get up and get your
body just ready for the day.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
For sure, I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, I mean I started doing a Qigong class on
Mind, on mind valley, which islike a personal development
program on my phone, but like Ijust used it because I've never
had time to go find a there's anincredible teacher here in
portland, leo.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
She's a real master from china, her and her brother,
leo dong um.
I got to train with them andactually went with him to china,
but they're incredible teachers, oh nice, are you still
teaching qigong, or do?
You um, I I'm not teaching noum teaching some meditation, but
(27:46):
not qigong at this time oh,what kind of meditation.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Are you teaching?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
um the tradition of the japanese, um it's full moon
meditation, a particularmeditation that I learned when I
lived in japan oh nice are youdoing?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
do you do that online ?
Do you do that in person?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
online.
So through through, throughzoom uh yeah, yeah, and it's
mostly through my son's aikidodojo.
So oh nice that community.
But other people are welcome aswell right now.
Yeah, people from all over thecountry zooming in, which is fun
.
Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Maybe, if you have information I could share it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
For sure, I'm not the host, the Aikido teacher is.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But yeah yeah, yeah, very nice, I love it.
It's funny, I used to thinkmeditation was an excuse to take
naps that people lied about.
I didn't even let energy workin my clinic.
I was like, nope, nope, we'renot having any of that nonsense.
And then I did it and my wholeperspective changed.
(28:53):
And then I did it and my wholeperspective changed.
And now I meditate like a lotand I love it and I feel younger
and more energetic and morevibrant.
Even I always show peoplepictures of me from 10 years ago
and I'm like I look younger nowthan I did 10 years ago and I
haven't.
It's because of the meditationand lifestyle changes, but
(29:15):
mostly meditation that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I need to regulate my mind and be the be in charge of
it so right.
It's incredible for mentalhealth and for general health,
meditation is so powerful whatis it if you had to explain it
to a newbie who's nevermeditated and thinks it's dumb?
(29:40):
What, how would you?
How, what would be like what?
The simplest way to explain whyit's helpful, like why it's the
number, maybe number three, twothing they should add into
their day besides water.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, do you, do you want to experience inner peace
Because it allows us to do that,or do you always want to feel
stressed?
I mean, it's, it's reallythere's a dichotomy, and I feel
like meditation allows us tofeel stressed.
I mean, it's really there's adichotomy, and I feel like
meditation allows us to feelthis inner peace and get in
touch with ourself in a way thatI don't know anything else that
(30:28):
allows that.
Right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's funny Cause, like when I'm talking to my
clients, I always say, like if Icould get you meditating and
hydrated, you probably wouldn'tneed me very often.
And they say, oh, I've triedmeditation, it doesn't work for
me.
I can't quiet my mind and I'mlike oh you don't have to.
I never have a quiet mind whenI'm meditating.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I know that's part of the practice yeah, like my mind
is amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
It is extremely creative and I love living up
there.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
So and sometimes your most creative ideas and
inspirations will come to you inthat state right so that's
another piece of it is.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
It's an incredible creative tool, creativity tool
oh yeah, and so I think it's away of activating your intuition
, like and definitely like toget to know what is right for
your body.
Like since I started usingmeditation for my health and and
using it like my intuition totell me what I need, I haven't
(31:32):
succumbed to like the industrysales pitches for my body.
Again it's like Nope, you justneed to follow this and this,
and that's how you're going tohit your goals.
And did the inner work torelease the baggage around
health, but that was my journey.
So yeah, so like, when I talkabout meditation, I'm always
(31:55):
like you don't have to have aquiet mind.
In fact, you might have areally noisy mind and that's
actually not a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Right, yeah, I'll tell a story about.
So you know my history aboutliving in Japan.
I lived in a Buddhist monasteryfor three years there, and so
when I first started meditating,we had to sit in the training
period.
So there was a year of training, intense training, where we
(32:22):
meditated nine hours a day.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So those that first two weeks to a month of sitting
for nine hours a day.
And it's not a Zen practicewhere you're trying to empty
your mind.
You're doing some rituals,you're doing some mantras,
you're sitting with certain hand, mudras or postures and you're
and you're doing some chanting,but when you're first doing that
(32:50):
, your mind is so busy it's likeyou're getting to sit with
yourself and look back ateverything you've done in your
life, right?
So you're flooded with memories.
You're flooded with oh wow,look how I did this in my life,
this experience, and look how Icould have done it differently.
(33:11):
So that first month was a verybusy mind time, but then it
starts kind of calming.
It's like waves, right, there'sfirst, there's all these waves
coming in, and then it starts oh, there's less and less waves
and I can really focus on eachwave or each thought or each
memory, whatever's coming up,and then it starts to become
(33:35):
more and more placid and calmand there is a place where there
is a quiet place.
That's just pure focus, justpure concentration, where you
can go anywhere you want andyou're not being controlled by
(33:56):
these memories or you're nothaving these things come up as
much.
But that takes immense amountof practice.
So to say that I don't know howto meditate or that I can't
meditate nobody's no, there's,nobody is is a professional at
it.
It's just a practice, just like.
Just like practicing basketballYou're not going to make every
(34:20):
shot.
You have to keep shooting Right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Well, and it's going to look different for everybody,
based on what their need is.
Like I had someone email textme this morning with a emergency
, like pain thing and I can'tget in today, but I'll send you
my app and just go listen to thepain meditation.
It'll help at least decrease itor give you the solution,
because your body will tell youwhat it needs.
(34:44):
So like I was like until I canget you into tomorrow.
So like they're all differentfor different reasons and
exactly everyone's experienceshould be different, like if
it's all the same, then that's.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I think that's not right, but, like you know, it
should all be different andunique for sure, and there's so
many different meditations thatcan help us in so many different
ways too right, and there's noright or wrong path or way to
practice.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, absolutely, it is like there is.
Yeah, there is no wrong way tomeditate.
It's just like you know whatyou need.
So that's why I like recordingthem now, because I have a lot
of fun with working with thedivine feminine goddesses.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Have you listened to any of them?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I haven't listened to any of them.
You gave me that awesomemeditation that I listened to
about cleaning your cottage, andI think that's a really
powerful meditation.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Oh, I think, for healers, especially like people
who work in healing arts, wedeal with people who are in so
much trauma and pain that,because pain is traumatizing in
and of itself, and then you know, we have to be able to clear
that their energy from our fieldat the end of the day,
otherwise it makes us sick.
So that was what I found formyself especially was that, you
(36:11):
know, working in with pain for along time, I started getting
sick and I didn't know what wasmine or what was other people's
anymore and I just felt likegarbage.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
so right, and that's part of, yeah, a good education.
Training for healers, I thinkshould include those techniques
at how not to hold on to ourpatients stuff, right, and how,
how to how to do that self-carestuff.
So we're not holding theirstuff but we're there for them,
(36:43):
you know, listening and andhelping in the ways that we can,
but not holding at all Right.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
That is, I think, probably the most important
thing they should be teaching inschool For people who are going
into the field.
It's how to not take on theirstuff but like how to let it go
at the end of the day.
Because I hear horrific storiesand I can hold space for people
and I don't get in it with themanymore right right same you
(37:14):
have to right most definitelypeople.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
You know we're like counselors.
People are opening up in waysthat and telling us things that
they haven't talked about beforeand you know, usually it's
often it's a very sad story,right.
Yeah, and and I think, yeah, we, we see so much burnout um with
health practitioners.
This is one of the things thatleads to it is carrying the
(37:39):
burden of our, of uh, that thepatient's suffering, right.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah.
I mean it's to me, I thinkprobably, if you want, cause
people always ask like cause themassage therapist average
career is less than five yearsand it's because they usually
destroy their body, becausethey're not working smart enough
, they're not working inalignment with what their body
needs, they don't haveboundaries with their clients
(38:06):
Like this total lack ofeducation around self-care with
their clients like this totallack of education around
self-care.
Um, and it's sad because it'ssuch a wonderful profession that
lacks the people in it, becausethey burn out too quickly right
, and acupuncture too.
Only 35 percent ofacupuncturists make it um that's
a long education to have only35 make it three plus year
(38:31):
education, three to six yeareducation, and wow, I didn't
know that was true foracupuncture as well.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
For sure, yeah, quite a few of us yeah don't make it
through.
So it's yeah, that piece is soimportant.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Self-care yeah, that, um, how do you do it?
How do you prioritize yourself-care?
I've I've just decided thatwe're gonna have two, two
episodes.
We're gonna do a separate oneon the fatherhood thing.
Okay, we're gonna post this onesooner, because I was like I
didn't realize we'd have so muchto talk to about.
So if that's okay with you,we'll do.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I would like to do the one on another episode.
Okay, good, so tell me about howyou, how, what your self-care
routine looks like and how thatbenefits your patients and you
and your family, right, so Ican't give if my cup's not full,
right, so, um, so I realizedthat at a fairly early time in
(39:37):
my practice, and so what I do isso, yeah, I, I, I practice
forms of qigong, I practicemeditation, I practice, I
exercise regularly, like threeto five days a week.
I exercise, I garden.
Garden is one of the biggestgrounding healing things for me.
(40:01):
I'm just being in touch withthe earth and growing things.
Um, I'm a beekeeper, so beingaround my bees, I find you are.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
How did I not know this?
Okay, I did not know.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I've been a beekeeper for 10 years now.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, so I got into my bees on Sunday.
I have two hives now.
I split one of my I had a bighive that overwintered this year
and then split it into two.
My bees help heal me.
So the vibration that they make, the humming that they make and
(40:39):
the smell of the honey and thepropolis is this incredibly
therapeutic thing just for me tobe around them.
Incredibly therapeutic thingjust for me to be around them.
So I, in the mornings, I'lloften go and sing to them a
little bit and then they sort ofI know this sounds weird it
does not sound weird to me youknow me this does not sound
(41:00):
weird to me, um I have weirdthings in my life all of the
time.
This does not sound weird beesare important to obviously
pollinating our plants like 60of the fruits and vegetables we
eat are pollinated by them.
But not only are they importantto that, but they're they're
(41:23):
vibrating on a level, they'rethey're so interconnected.
I learned so much from them.
Um, in in Eastern Europe, theyhave bee therapy houses, so they
put beehives in like a saunahouse, so the bees don't have
access to you, to you inside thehouse, they're just slid in
(41:45):
under the seats.
Um, and the vibration and thesmell they've found in eastern
europe, places like poland, uh,have been shown to be incredibly
healing for for people, um,especially with depression and
stress.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Um, so, was it because they're flapping and
they're like literally clearingenergy, as they're like their
energy is like just changing thevibrational frequency around
you?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Probably.
I don't know how it works.
I just know that when I spendtime with my bees, it's like
going to a sound bath, it's likemy vibration has changed.
It's like my vibration haschanged.
It's like listening to reallygood music, but also you're
getting an endorphin rush.
(42:36):
There's really incrediblearomas that they make from the
honey and the propolis as well.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
That is amazing.
No, I think that's so cool.
I'm like, wow, that is becauseso many people are afraid of
bees.
But I remember like just eventhinking about, like the meaning
of like certain things, likethere's, you know, like in the
shamanism there's a littlemeanings behind bees.
They're not like a bad omen atall, they're actually like, um,
(43:05):
I think it was when I keep, whenI always pull the b card, it's
always like where are you beingin busy work, instead of
intuition, like it's like workbut there's more, like they have
so many lessons to teach us,especially about like um the
hive and like working togetherand that connectedness and how,
when people are working, youknow, as in a unison, it's not a
(43:27):
bad thing, um, that it'sactually for the greater good
when it's for the greater goodof the divine feminine too, to
roll it back to you, becauseit's the queen who rules.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
The rules the hive oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
So I was just, we were just talking about this
before I got on and I I wassaying I have a passion for
helping women understand theirrole in keeping their families
together, because it's they're.
They're not doing it in a waythat's serving their families
and it's not their fault.
They've been sold a lie about alot of things, um and, but we
(44:03):
could talk about that in anotherepisode but like that is that
is for me.
Yeah, because I'm like we are somuch more responsible for
whether or not our families staytogether.
Um, then, we know, and it's notwhat we've been told.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
So right, so we can take lots of lessons from queen
bees in general.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I had no idea, yeah, so the healing properties of
honey, propolis, pollen, allthose things.
There's one other thing thatbees are incredible healers at
and that's called apotherapy.
So some acupuncturists use beeson acupressure points, use the
(44:47):
stings so that the histaminethat's released into the body
makes our immune system respond.
So if there's a sore shoulderthat somebody has arthritis in,
if you sting that area, thenthere's inflammation caused,
(45:09):
caused right from the histaminebeing released.
If they're not allergic to beesfirst, of course, then your
immune system has to go meetthat that toxin that's been
released into your body andthereby heals it.
It's only almost like ahomeopathic dose of some sort of
(45:29):
toxin that you're injectinginto your body.
Acupuncture works the sameexact way, by the way, where
we're doing a micro attack onthe body.
So our immune system has to gomeet it.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Well that makes total sense to me, because what I've
seen with people who have atrauma, a body trauma, is their
brain just dissociates from thatsection, like where we go in
and reactivate it.
And sometimes I'll go in andlike test and I'm like your
brain doesn't even register thatthis foot is here.
That's the problem, right.
So that makes total sense to me.
(46:02):
Like I just don't use bees, Iuse pressure points or like
exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
I don't use bees either.
I've had some practitionersfrom eastern europe ask me to,
or some patients ask me to um.
There are practitioners in asiawho who just use bees um, or
acupuncture um that's so coolit's.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
It's a thing, check it out don't think I could
convince my daughter because ifthere's to be anywhere near her
she's freaking out and likescreaming off.
But I think that's amazing.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
So going back to self-care, that's one of my
things I do.
I love being in water, so wateris incredibly healing for me.
It feels like home for me.
So if I can swim, oh, um, if Ican do things like sauna, um and
cold plunge, um, or hot springs, that's incredibly healing for
(47:00):
me.
So I I make a point ofscheduling throughout the year,
different times, that I'm doingthat.
In fact, next Friday I'm doingsome sauna and cold plunge.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I, I keep trying, but there's just no way I can
convince my body that coldplunging is good for it.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I, I, I, I, I believe in challenging ourselves right
Like pushing our boundaries andour comfort zones, and for me, I
get this incredible endorphinrelease from it and it helps,
(47:45):
yeah, my self-care.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I believe that I know that there's benefits to it and
I'm I'm working up towards it.
Sometimes I'll get in theshower in the morning after the
gym and I'll go in and it's coldand I'm like I like it, I'll
breathe through it and I'm like,okay, you're not gonna die,
it's fine.
But yeah, that's the.
That's one of the harder onesfor me, I think it's hard, it's
really hard um, well, becauseyou also are, like um a business
(48:11):
owner, like you're in yourbusiness.
You're very active in ournetworking group, which is
awesome.
Um what, like what if you were?
Just because we're going to goahead and um wrap up soon so
that I honor our time.
Um, if you were to, let's dothis instead.
If you were to, to convincesomeone who's like I don't want
to go get acupuncture because itwould hurt, like I'm afraid of
(48:34):
needles and all of the things.
What is the, the number onething that could benefit them,
like if they're struggling withsomething like what is one of
the things that you treat mostoften with great success that,
like other, maybe moretraditional paths, don't don't
even touch at the level thatacupuncture can um, well, um, I
(48:59):
think other modalities touch itas well, but, um, definitely for
some pain.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
That's um for, for for pain.
It can help release pain inincredible ways.
Um, but yeah, instead of justone, that's also stress, because
it releases endorphins in thebody.
Um, it helps calm and relax us,so it can help reduce pain
through those endorphins beingreleased and through that
(49:26):
circulation being opened up.
Um, but it also for stress.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
It's an incredible therapy well, stress creates
pain, like the two are notseparate, and like there's a
book that was just written by.
It's called the way out, andit's this neuroscientist who's
educating people about theaddictive patterns to pain in
their brain and how it's reallydifficult to get out of pain
(49:54):
once you've been in it for threemonths, because now the brain
has an addictive strategy ofcreating more pain and it
doesn't know how to get out ofit and so things like
acupuncture, I think are greatfor helping break that pattern
in the body.
So yeah, that's huge in treatingpain and also like the
(50:14):
obviously the you know hands-onpieces of like releasing the
actual pain triggers and thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, yeah.
The theory in Chinese medicineis where there's pain or stress,
there's a blockage of the flowof energy.
So that's why we have thesemeridian systems.
There's 12 main meridians thatgo across the body and we select
different acupressure points toopen up the flow.
(50:42):
So if you think of a dam on ariver that the water is not
flowing through, it's blocked.
Think of a dam on a river thatthe water's not flowing through,
it's blocked.
Um, there's going to be somepain points downstream where
they're not getting enough water.
So to reopen that up, then youhave less pain, it's.
It's that's what we do withacupuncture cupping therapy very
(51:05):
effective it's.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
I think it's very effective.
I mean, I used it, obviouslywhen I was in a car accident.
I saw you twice a week, so itwas, I think, and actually I was
um telling Chris yesterday whenwe're at the meeting that um,
that I think is one of thethings that got me through one
of the hardest years of my life,because my marriage was falling
apart at the same time and Iwas in massage school and it was
(51:31):
like it.
I think that the car accident,although horrible, was a little
bit of a blessing, because I gotlike two acupuncture
appointments a week and twomassages a week and it helped
keep me out of that likecomplete, you know, mental
breakdown from you know, havingsomething big like that happen
(51:52):
in your life definitely.
Yeah, some interesting howsometimes an injury can be a
healing opportunity, right yeah,I would have never gotten that
kind of care for myself throughmy divorce, like that, like I
wouldn't have made the time forthat, right, because who has
time for that?
But, um, because I was in my uhcar accident and I knew I
(52:15):
needed my body to work because Iwas in massage school, uh, I
was like I don't have a choice,like I, I have to to prioritize
it.
And it was being paid forbecause in oregon we get, you
know that covered under our autoinsurance, which is amazing.
Um, but yeah, so this was somuch fun and we can talk for
hours.
I was like okay, well, you'regonna be a regular guest.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
I'm like, well, I hope I didn't go off on too many
tangents, so I really likespending time together and
talking together, so I reallyappreciate you, tabitha oh, I
appreciate you too and, like the, just the influence you've had
on my life over the years hasbeen amazing.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
And at bni, which is our, like the networking group
that erin and I go to to supportour, you know, local small
businesses, um, everyone standsup every week in testimony to
you in a way that is with somuch respect for what you give
them and freedom in their bodythat it may.
(53:15):
It makes me so proud to likeknow that, like we have such an
amazing human in in our chapter.
Obviously that is so passionateabout helping people feel good
and that's like such a callingright.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
That's very kind of you.
And it's not just one amazinghuman in the chapter.
We have an amazing group ofhumans.
That's what's so beautifulabout this group right now is
it's such a dynamic group ofamazing people right now, and
you being one of them, so Ireally, really love everything
you bring to the world as well.
Um, you've helped teach me howto be a better person in this
(53:57):
world.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
You're an inspiration , so thank you thank you, that's
really kind all right.
Well, um, I'm gonna go aheadand close off.
I'm gonna put a link to your,your website, if anyone's
interested in booking with you.
Just to say it out loud,because they're just listening
along.
How do people find you?
How do they book an appointment?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, just booking through my website is the
easiest way wwwaomhealthcom.
There's a little book nowbutton.
That's the best way to book anappointment.
If you have questions, you canwrite emails there as well.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
And you work with insurance right.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Is that right?
I do so.
Most Oregon insurance companies, the bigger insurance companies
I'm in network with, mostdefinitely yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Excellent and well.
Thank you again.
I'm so happy that we got tochat and I'm going to look
forward to having you back forour Father's Day special,
because I really want to getyour take on parenting in the
modern world and also to haveyou and your dad on, because you
guys have such a beautifulconnection that I just think
(55:08):
it's really inspiring and I lookforward to telling that story.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
I look forward to it as well.
So thank you so much for theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah, my pleasure.
Thank you everyone and we willsee you next week.
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