12. Somebody You Love is paid to have sex

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenna Love (00:02):
COVID-19 has had a significant impact on the sex
industry. And snap lockdowns andtravel restrictions mean that
there are times when sex workersrequire emergency financial
relief in order for them andtheir dependents to stay safe
housed and fed.

Holly Harte (00:16):
Sex workers don't get sick or holiday pay and many
have no savings to fall back on.
The stigma and discriminationthat we face means that some
have no proof of earnings toaccess government support. And
of course, migrant workers areoften forgotten

Jenna Love (00:28):
Scarlet Alliance and their state and territory member
organisations joined together tocreate an ongoing fund that is
hosted on the website chuffedthat's c-h-u-f-f-e-d.

donations are tax deductible, 100% of funds raised
go directly to sex workers inneed. And most weeks the amount
of people applying outweigh theamount of funds raised and sadly
people have to be turned away.
The link to this fund is in ourshow notes.

Jenna Love (00:56):
Welcome to Somebody You Love or, the sale of two
titties. I'm Jenna Love.

And I'm Holly Harte.

Jenna Love (01:05):
And we're experts in disappointing our parents
breaching community guidelinesand banging the people who vote
against our rights.

Today we'd like to acknowledge that we are
recording on land that wasstolen, Jenna is on Darug and
Gundungurra land and I am on theland of the Ngunnawal people.

Jenna Love (01:24):
As usual with this show, we are not able to speak
on behalf of all hookers and norwould we want to. But it's
particularly true in thisepisode, because we're talking
about sex, what we like, what wedon't like. And as we all know,
every body is different. Andevery mind is different. And I
mean, I think that's one of thethings that makes sex so

(01:44):
awesome. But we just, as usual,cannot speak for everyone.

We always give a warning about adult themes with
this show. But this one, asJenna said, is all about sex.
We're talking about positions,specific acts, orgasms the whole
lot. So if you're under age, oryou are someone who is
uncomfortable with chatteraround sex, this is not for you.
And probably in general, thewhole show is not for you. As a

(02:09):
special warning just for Jenna'sMum, you should definitely skip
this one.

Jenna Love (02:14):
If you've been enjoying the podcast, we would
love it if you could take a fewseconds to rate and review the
show on Apple podcasts.
Preferably a five star ratingand a really nice review. But
we're not going to tell you whatto do with your life. We think
that the message we are sharingis one that needs to be shared.
And by leaving us a review andsharing our stuff on social
media, you'll be really helpingus to reach a wider audience. If

(02:36):
you are concerned about yourname showing up on a review of a
sex podcast, a sexcast, you canactually change your nickname,
but it has to be done on yourcomputer because Apple just
likes to make things difficult.
We have posted on our socialmedia how to do it, though. So
let us know if you need a hand.
Thanks.

So Jenna, let's talk about sex, baby. On the
topic of sex, let's talk abouthow much do we enjoy the sex we
have at work and how muchpressure do we feel there is to
perform as opposed to in ourpersonal life? I guess?

Jenna Love (03:15):
Yeah, look, I think this is one that a lot of people
ask us questions around this.
And they want to know, if we areactually enjoying the sex that
we have at work. Clients want toknow that because
understandably, it's importantthat the person you're with
isn't having a bad time, ofcourse, but it's a tricky one.
Because at the end of the day,it is work. And I mean, there
will be sex workers out therewho never enjoy a second of

(03:37):
their job. And that's that's avalid experience. But I mean, I
know I think you and I aresimilar, like there are times
when I have such wonderful sexat work, and sometimes in ways
that I think is really awesome,because I wouldn't get to
experience them otherwise,because I will meet people who I
think 'I would never date you.

(03:59):
We're not compatible. We're notin the same circles. We're not
at the same stages in life,we're not, for whatever reason
we're not compatible in arelationship sense'. And even if
I went out to a bar and hookedup, if that was ever a thing
that I would do,

You in a bar (laughing)

Jenna Love (04:14):
I know, but I just I would probably never, the two of
us would probably never comeinto contact in a sexual way if
it wasn't for my job. And yet,we have like, OOF sexual
chemistry. You know, I justthink fuck, we are sexually
compatible and maybe notcompatible in in any other way
really. But I think that'sreally cool because I wouldn't

(04:35):
have gotten to experience thatif it wasn't for my job. At the
same time, there are plenty oftimes where I have to, or I feel
that I need to pretend to beenjoying myself when I'm not
necessarily and I think that'ssomething that civilians really
struggle with. That's where itstarts getting really murky for

(04:55):
them. But I think, I don't know,like I don't know if other
people have this experience but,before I became a sex worker,
there were also plenty of timesin the bedroom where I wasn't
having a mind blowing time. AndI was just like, well, we're
here now we might as well finishit up or...

Romantic.

Jenna Love (05:12):
Yeah, well, I mean, that's just, you've kind of got
to be, you got to be practicalabout it. And sex is just it's
not always this perfect,beautiful thing that that goes
smoothly. And we, perhaps we getto know that more than others.
But yeah, I mean, so yes, theanswer is sometimes I enjoy it
immensely. Sometimes I enjoy ita bit. I also find it kind of

(05:35):
can kickstart my libido. Like,I'm currently in week 10 or 11.
I don't know or up to, oflockdown. And like, my sex drive
has disappeared. Because I'm notworking.Like I mean, if I wasn't
a sex worker, I'd obviously findother ways to make that happen.
But for me, it's a real, like,it's a, what's the word I'm

(05:56):
looking for, like a jumpstart?
When I'm working I'm like, oh,yeah, like, I just I have- I
don't have to have sex, butthere's an expectation that I
will be having sex. And so I do,and then I'm like, oh, yeah! Sex
is so awesome. Like, I almostforgot. So for me, it has a
benefit on my personal life.
Plus, sometimes clients willsuggest we try something and I'm
like, oh my god, I need to gohome and and show my husband

(06:19):
that or, you know, like, it canreally enrich the sex in my
personal life as well. Whatabout you?

Yeah, gosh, I've got a few things to say that
popped up while you were havinga chat then. Just to answer the
question to start with, yeah,it's a complex thing. I have had
a lot of sex before I became asex worker. And since, and, like
anything, sometimes it's great.
And sometimes it's not so great.

(06:46):
I would say often, I enjoy it. Iam someone who is very fortunate
enough to cum a lot. I knowthere's a large proportion of
women who never come who'venever had an orgasm, and who, or
who find it very difficult tocum. So for me, sex is very
often rewarding. If I can getoff once, twice, three times.

(07:08):
Great. But there's more to sexthan an orgasm, which is
something I'm sure we're goingto discuss today. And I find the
whole experience really good. Soeven if maybe someone I can't
cum in one way with one person,there are other elements of it
that I find really enjoyable.
And overall, the experience canbe really nice. And like you
said, some of the most mindblowing sex I've had was with
guys that I wouldn't have talkedto- that sounds really stuck up,

(07:30):
but guys that I wouldn't haveordinarily dated or met up with
in my civilian life, so... andthey just blew my mind. And I
was like, god, you make me sohorny. So that's really cool. I
have heard a lot of workers saythat they don't orgasm at work,
or they won't orgasm. That wassomething I heard a lot when I

(07:51):
was particularly in a brothelthat they refuse to cum with a
client or something, they liketo delineate...

Jenna Love (07:57):
Yes, I heard that particularly in brothels as
well. Interesting.

Yeah. And I was like, why not? I get it,
everyone has their own needs forboundaries and what satisfies
them in this work scenario,because sex work is a very
unique space. But for me, I'mlike, if I can take advantage of
that, it's great. I love to havean orgasm. And I do, often. In
terms of pressure to perform, Idon't really feel it. I have

(08:22):
heard people say in thisindustry that because we're
getting paid. Often workers feelmore able to tell clients that
that doesn't work for them. Andto do this instead or to guide
clients and educate them alittle bit more, I would tend to
think probably not because ofyou being booked for something,
you almost I suppose feel likeyou have to indulge someone's

(08:43):
ego a little bit. It's notsomething I feel a lot of
pressure often because I alreadyam feeling pleasure. So I'm not
feeling like I have to pretendto have pleasure, if that makes
sense. So yeah, because we arebooked by the client, I suppose
you do want to stroke their egoa little bit. But generally,
that's not something I feel alot of pressure to do.

(09:04):
Fortunately for me.

Jenna Love (09:05):
Yeah, I think there's this um, I have heard it
said about sex workers, but butalso about women in general.
That and of course, now isprobably a good time to add a
disclaimer that we are talkingmostly about heterosexual sex in
this episode. But yeah, I'veheard this idea that, that it's
our responsibility to educatemen, in a sense, for the sake of

(09:27):
other women and that we haveresponsibility to, for example,
not fake an orgasm or fakepleasure, just because we think
that that's what we're supposedto do. And that, you know, that
it's our duty to sort of step upand say, 'actually, that's
painful', or 'that is maybe notsomething that everyone's going
to like and maybe very fewpeople would like that' and that
sort of thing. And I thinkthat's, it gets really murky for

(09:50):
me because, you know, I don'tadvertise myself as a sex
educator. There are people whodo and that's a different
situation. We talked to Charlielast week who's quite
comfortable with that sort ofthing and will take on that
role, and there are sex workerswho will. But I think to sort of
put that responsibility on anysex worker or on any woman,
indeed, isn't it, I think it's abit problematic. I think it's a

(10:13):
bit icky. Because I don't likeholding someone accountable for
the way someone they're withthen goes on to treat other
people. And I just think we'renot always in situations where
we feel safe to assertourselves, as I said, as a sex
worker or not. And there areoccasions where if you, if

(10:33):
you're not enjoying it, and youpretend to enjoy it, it's likely
to finish sooner. And I knowthat's a really yucky thing to
think about. But I know that asa woman, I've had that thought,
and yeah, I know, it's yucky.
That's all I can say. But

It's not a common, it's not a frequent thing that
you and I experience, is it?

Jenna Love (10:53):
No, it isn't. No, no.

But we have definitely felt that situation.

Jenna Love (10:56):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think that if that's yourway of getting through that, and
you think that's that's the waythat's going to get you through
that the best and with the leastamount of trauma, and you know
that you're going to come outthe other side, still feeling
good about yourself, then that'swhat you should do.

The thing, I think, just follow- to wrap up that
question is, in my personallife, when I have sex, it's very
different to the sex I have atwork. So- and that's sort of
what you touched on just beforeis, you know, in my personal
life, I have had very, I thinkI've had civilian sex twice in
the past 10 years or something.
So I've had very little butbefore that there was a lot.

(11:33):
It's very much quickies. It'shard and fast, smash it out and
done. It's very hot and heavyand passionate and dirty and
done. Whereas in my work life,it's can be very long and
sensual and passionate, and alot more foreplay. And that's
really nice. And like you said,I get to explore some things I

(11:53):
may not have. So in terms of youknow, do we enjoy the sex we
have at work? Fuck yes.
Otherwise, I wouldn't do it fora job.

Jenna Love (12:00):
Yeah. And I mean, that's it, there are things that
we do at work that we either maynot do necessarily in our
personal lives, or that we justwe don't really enjoy, but we
are happy to do it as a part ofa service. Right?

Yeah, exactly.
Like, controversial statementhere. This can be a polarising
one. But I hate 69. And thereare going to be people listening
who go.' But we did a 69!'. Andlook, it's, it's not that I hate
it to the point of not wantingto do it, it's fine. I just find
it the least effective way ofreaching any sort of goal. It's
fun enough, it's a little bit ofentertainment. But it's always

(12:36):
better in theory, you know, yourgenitals don't quite reach each
other's faces and you'redistracted. One person's here
and one's there. And it's, in mypersonal life. If someone asked
if that's what I wanted, I'dprobably say ehhh no. But while
I'm at work in a booking, ifthat's something that you want
to try, no worries, it's notsomething that I don't consent
to. It's not traumatic in anyway for me, but it's just not

(12:58):
going to be the highlight of thesession for me. So

Jenna Love (13:02):
Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb. And I'm going
to say it and I'm happy to beproven wrong. But I do not think
that the majority of people whohave a vagina, enjoy 69 I think
that would be fair. I honestly,I don't I think and, I know,
almost every sex worker I'veever spoken to, has said 'Oh
yeah, no, fuck, I hate 69' it'sjust, it sucks it's a shit

(13:26):
position. But I have to say, Ialways thought that until I was
with a client who is a woman,and we tried, she was like, 'Do
you wanna do 69?' I was like,'Ah fuck. You too? And then I
don't think she'd ever tried itbefore. I could be wrong. If
she's listening. She can tell meif I'm wrong. But I was like,
'Yeah, cool, whatever'. And itwas fucking awesome. It was so

(13:48):
good. And I've only got onesample size there but my theory
is that maybe it's because we'vegot the same bits and we were
able to really rock together.
Unfortunately people listeningcan't see the the hand signals
I'm giving Holly at the moment.
But yeah, we our bodies reallylike clicked in and we were able
to rock back and forth and getinto a really good rhythm and it

(14:09):
just Oh, it worked. It wasphenomenal. But when there's
like a dick and a pussy oneither end and it, like, they
just don't really work. I justyeah, I hate it. I mean, as you
said, I don't hate it, itdoesn't traumatise me. But I
have no interest in it. But as apart of a booking and same as
you I'm going 'Oh god, I've gotclients listening to this who're

(14:30):
like 'but, but we did it, didyou hate it?' And it's like,
well, no, I mean, I didn't sitthere and hate it, but I was
like, well this is not achievinganything. I don't, I'm not
getting anything out of thisYeah, yeah. Which is
fine. But that's, it is what it

This is for you is.
I also don't lovebeing on top, part of it's
because I'm lazy as fuck butalso because I find I just don't
feel as much pleasure when I'mon top. It doesn't hit the spots
for me. And the physicalexertion means that I'm focusing
on that instead of focusing onthe sensation of the cock in me.

(15:00):
So that's that, I'm very muchinto, you know, doggy. mish, any
of those- spooning gimme anyother position. But you know,
once again, that's somethingI'll happily do at work. If you
want me to jump on and managethe five seconds of riding on
top that I can do, I'll do itfor you. Because I'm here for
the party. It's, you know, Iwant you to be happy as well.
Yeah, don't love it. But that'sfine. What about you, Jen?

Jenna Love (15:23):
Yeah in a similar vein, I quite like riding on
top, although, same as you, Ican only do it for a certain
length of time. Like, I'm not askinny fit bitch. So like, you
know, there's, there's limits towhat I can do. But I quite enjoy
it. It feels nice for me. Butinterestingly, what I don't
really enjoy is facesitting,which is, you know, when the

(15:45):
other person lays down, and Ibasically straddle their face,
so I'm on my knees. So it's asimilar position to the
traditional kind of cow girl

I love that!

Jenna Love (15:53):
Do you?

Yes

Jenna Love (15:54):
I find it really difficult to orgasm in that

So in terms of what we do enjoy, how do you feel
position. And for me, I feel ahuge amount of pressure. Because
when somebody has booked me, andthey want me to be on top of
their face, it's because theywant me to drown them. And so I
feel a lot of pressure toorgasm. And it's very, very
difficult for me to come in thatposition. I do cum, well it's n
t very, very, fuck, it's neverery, very difficult for me to
um. So I do, but it's not annjoyable orgasm. It's just

(16:21):
t's very functional, which i, that's fine. And again, same t
ing, I'm happy to do it if thais what somebody wants to do.
ut yeah, it's not my choiceI never ever, ever do it in my
personal life, ever. I have nointerest in doing that. I t
ink the other thing for me isP. And I know that you don't d
this because your littlebutthole is a virgin. But it'

(16:46):
not uncommon for clients to wat to use a toy on me and the
r dick, so that we're geting double penetration with a
dick and a toy. And I just prefr one at a time. I just, it's ju
t too much for me having both ofthem going on. And I think pe
ple like, I don't know, I just gt the sense clients are doin
it because they think I'll ejoy it. And they may not be

(17:06):
if they're enjoying it, and thy love that visual and that
ike, then awesome! Totally happyto do it. But when they sort of
about going down on yourclients?
resent it as 'Oh my god, you'regonna love this, aren't you?' I

Jenna Love (17:14):
Yeah, look, I mean, I really enjoy that. And I think
m like, 'Oh, well, if, I meanI can really take it or leave i
'. And it's awkward in a bookig situation to say that, because
obviously I want to be enthsiastic and really support what
hey want to do. But I'm like,'Oh, but if you're doing it
or me, then don't worry about itWe'll just fuck!' We just have,
we just have a dick and notave the toy as well.

(17:43):
that in general, a lot of sexworkers are people pleasers and
people who like to give pleasureand as such, might be more
comfortable giving thanreceiving. And I think that you
know, a misconception that kindof feeds into that, before I
entered the industry, I thoughtthat it would all be about me
being a service provider, megiving, and not a lot of

(18:04):
receiving. And I think that iswhat civilians think the job is
like a lot of time. The way theytalk about us as though our you
know, our bodies just get usedfor pleasure and all this sort
of shit. And so I kind ofexpected that. And the opposite
was really true. You know, ourclients really want to give us
pleasure. And I mean, a lot ofthe clients I've come across can
be quite uncomfortable or notused to receiving pleasure, and

(18:29):
it can be quite confronting forthem. So that's a really
roundabout way of answering thequestion, but I really do enjoy
giving oral to other people. Itvaries. There are some people's
genitals that could smellbetter. Or when I find when the
hair, like I've got no issuepeople having genital hair,
obviously, genital hair? Pubichair. But when it's like, when

(18:52):
it gets in the way, if they havea penis, for example, and the
hair is longer than the penis,it's just like, it's just a
logistical issue. So yeah, look,there are times when I'm like,
meh, I could take or leavesucking on this. But for the
most part, I mean, I love givinghead, nothing makes me wetter
than giving head, frankly. And Ithink that that's something that

(19:13):
a lot of sex workers wouldprobably say. And we get
dismissed because people arelike, 'Oh, you just have to say
that'. And it's like, no, Ithink that a lot of us are
people who want to give and wantto give pleasure. That being
said, of course, there's plentyof sex workers who don't have
that desire. They just want toearn an income. And that's cool,
too. But I think for a lot ofus, we're really into it.

Yeah, I've definitely always been a
cocksucker. In my youth, I wasvery well known for being the
cock sucking girl. That was athing for me. I've always had an
oral fixation, whether it'scigarettes or cock or food, I
just want to put things in mymouth. And I also love going
down on women. That's somethingI can spend a lot of time doing.

(19:55):
So count me in. I love suckingcock. I love going down on
people. I'm up for it.

Jenna Love (20:01):
One thing I find funny is that there's this kind
of expectation when we'retalking about penises, that a
larger one is going to be moredifficult to fellate than a
smaller one. And that is thecase sometimes. But I was
talking to Holly about this theother day. And I was like, I
don't know if I'm alone in this.
And Holly was like, 'No, no,you're not alone'. Which was
that, because it uses a verydifferent set of muscles when

(20:23):
you are sucking on a narrowercock, to when you're sucking on
a wider cock. And because whenit's on the smaller side, like a
slimmer cock, you really have tolike kind of purse your lips
together. And I find thosemuscles get sore more quickly
than the muscles that I use tosuck a bigger cock. God this is
so graphic!

I'm loving the hand movements you're doing there.

Jenna Love (20:49):
Oh yeah! Fully acting it out. But yeah, so I
just think some people, I thinkit's interesting. And some
people would be surprised tolearn that sometimes sucking a
smaller cock is more arduous andis more taxing on my muscles
than sucking a bigger one.

Yeah, another logistical issue with cocks is
the deep throating issue for me.
So, I find because of the waythat most cocks, and once again,
there's so many types of cocksout there, but a lot of cocks
tend to bend upwards orbackwards towards

Jenna Love (21:25):
When they're erect

When they're erect.
Sorry, yeah, towards a person'sbelly basically. So when you're
trying to deep throat that it'stipping up towards the back of
your throat, upwards towardssort of your nose, I guess. So
in order to give the best deepthroat the best position to do
so is upside down, for example,laying on the edge of the bed
with your head hanging backwardsover it and being fucked in the
throat that way. So it actuallytips back down the back of your

(21:48):
throat, which is not the mostcomfortable position. But hey,
it's doable. It's just a strangebody logistic and yeah, it's
part of sucking cock, I guess.

Jenna Love (22:01):
Yeah, I reckon one of the most common mistakes I
guess people make with sex isnot adapting to the bodies that
are there. And that's the thingI've had so many guys want me to
be on my knees and look, I'm alittle fucking slut, like I love
being on my knees and suckingcock. My god, I hope my mother
has taken your warning and isnot listening to this episode.

(22:22):
Um, I love it. But when I getdown there, and you've got an
upward bending cock that'spoking up towards your navel, I
can't get that in my I can getit in the front area of my
mouth, but I can't get it downmy throat. It's like it's just
not gonna work. And so thenoften with guys like that, if
it's quite a severe upwardangle, I will get them to lie

(22:43):
down and I'll kind of climbaround. So my bum is like near
their face. And I can do as yousaid, like an upside down blow
job. But then so often, I thinkthey take my bum being there
right near their head as a signthat I want to do 69. So they'll
kind of try and pull me on top.
And I'm like, 'Oh, fuck, no, Ididn't. I just want to give you
a fucking good blow job. And nowyou're trying to eat my pussy as
well'. Like, I just wanted tofocus on an excellent blow job,

(23:05):
see how deep down me I can getthat dick and instead, you're
pulling out the 69 again. Andagain, it's like if that's what
they want to do, that's cool.
But I'm like, well, it's notthat that's what I was
suggesting. I just need to getto this angle. Logistically.

Yeah, you're having a good time just slobbing on
that knob like corn on the cob.

Jenna Love (23:25):
I'm good! Yeah! Just let me have a good time. But
then I know, I have heard somemen say they are enjoying the
blowjob too much. And they needthe distraction of the pussy on
their face. And that's fairenough. That's cool. But I just
like to focus on one thing at atime. Which brings us to this
thing that we all get asked,which is what do we like? What

(23:49):
do we want to do? In thebedroom? Clients ask us this all
the time. They want to do whatwe enjoy, which totally comes
from a really good place ofwanting us to have a nice time,
of course.

Yeah, it does. But it can be a really frustrating
question for a lot of sexworkers. Because the way it's
often framed is almost likepalming off the burden of choice
of, of dictating what's going tohappen next in the session. And
it's really hard for us todictate the service when we
don't know what you want, we'renot mind readers. And what we

(24:22):
want or what we prefer isprobably just to be laying
around and not doing a whole loteven if you know, even though we
probably enjoy the sex with you,gosh putting us in that sort of
position where we have to makeall the decisions is a lot. We
oftentimes will tell you onething or another that we
generally enjoy, but like I saidbefore, I really like a really
quick quickie, and then somecuddles. And I don't think often

(24:45):
that's what you want to hear. Idon't think you want to hear
'Quick, bust one out as quick asyou can and then let's snuggle
up and maybe have a snooze forthe rest of the booking'. That
sort of feels a bit offensive. Iknow that with the time that
you're spending a lot of moneyon, you'd like us to do more and
I am so up for that. But that'sjust not how my horny instant
gratification brain works. So Isometimes need you to tell me

(25:06):
what you want. And I want yourfantasies, I want to know what
excites you. So we can do thattogether.

Jenna Love (25:12):
Yeah, look for me. I mean, if somebody asks me, what
do you want to do? The answer isorder a pizza and watch Netflix,
like, that's what I want to do.
But I'm happy to do my job aswell. But like I don't, I think
it irks me a little bit. Andthis is getting a little bit
maybe academic about it. Butbecause to me, it sort of seems
like they're forgetting thatthis is my job, and making an

(25:35):
assumption that whatever actionI want to do, that I would want
to be doing it with them, andthat I would choose them to be
doing it with. And it's like,well, if I am really horny, and
if I am wanting to have sex, Iwant to have it with my husband
or my boyfriend. Like, that'sthe reality. And I don't,
obviously, I'll never say thatto a client. And I understand
that it may not be the nicestthing for clients of sex workers

(25:57):
to hear. But that is thereality. I want to be having sex
with the people that I choose tohave sex with, of course.

Yeah. So you love your job, but it is still a job.
And it is still work.

Jenna Love (26:08):
Exactly. And I just think it's this thing of them
saying like, what do you want todo? And like, sometimes I'm
like, 'Well, nothing with you!'.
That's rare. You know, much moe often I actually am en
oying myself. But you know, thre are some times when I'm li
e, I don't know, I kind of thnk the audacity of you to th
nk that I would want to do anthing with you is pretty wi
d. Anyway, I probably just lot all my clients again. We sho

(26:31):
ld just call this podcast 'Hoto lose a client in 10 ep
sodes'. So, but the other thether aspect of that which you
ouched on Holly is the customerYeah, it's like when I get
clients who think I'm going toervice aspect. Like I grew up
orking in my parents' retailbusiness my whole life for so
many years. So I've always I'vegot this element of, you know,
pleasing the customer being themost important thing. And you

(26:54):
know, sex work is the same asretail in that there's a limit
to it, right? It's not about youjust do whatever the customer
wants, you do what the customeris, what is going to make the
customer happy within a certainframework. And when I was
working retail, if somebodywanted me to do something that
was outside of my boundaries,obviously, I wouldn't do that.

(27:15):
But within the boundaries of thework, the idea is to keep the
customer happy. And you know,it's really difficult to get
that out of your head,especially when people are
paying you a lot of money. Andthat it gets it gets really
tricky. Because payment, aswe've talked about does not
negate consent. And just becausesomebody has paid us, it doesn't
mean that they can do whateverthey want, or that we should do

(27:35):
whatever they want. Absolutelynot. But there is an aspect of
well, this is a service that I'mproviding. So for you to come in
here and say what do you like,I'm like, well, this, it's not
about that. It's about what youlike, which I think is really
it's really tricky. And it's had for people to get their heads
round that because when you tae the payment away, things are

(27:56):
a bit different. And don'tet me wrong, you sho
ld be communicating with yor sex worker. And they sho
ld be communicating with you asou go along the process which,
you know, you might move your had towards a direction and say,
Oh, do you like this? Are youomfortable with me doing that? O
does that feel good?' listenng to their, you know, if thei
breath is quickening or if theyre kind of looking a bit diseng

(28:18):
ged or whetever, like all of tat communication and continuous
consent is is so so vital, butjust the overall 'What do you
ant to do now?' It makes us goWell, I don't know. Do you wan
me to get out my knife set sowe can do medical play? Or do
ou want small penis humiliatin?' Do you want like, there's

(28:41):
ust such a wide range of thingsand we're not mind readers. I th
nk that's it at the en

Yeah, spot on, I'm exactly the same.
be really wildly kinky becauseof my job. And I'm like, my
personal preferences areexceedingly vanilla. And I like
I said I just like a quickie,really intense passionate, let's
do, I can do 10 quickies, let'sgo for it. But I'm not into
anything particularly wild. AndI'm so keen to experiment with

(29:08):
my clients. And I do have fundoing that. And I do find things
that get me off. And that'scool. But I don't have a
particular kink. So when theycome and they say, you know,
what do you want to do and I'mlike, it's not gonna thrill you
it's gonna be literally justdick me. Just dick
Yeah, if I feel like you'refishing for a kink, you're not

(29:31):
going to find it with me. Youneed to come to me with what you
want. And I can facilitate thatgladly, but I'm not going to
come out with some wild kinkthat you're going to try today.

Jenna Love (29:41):
That is a much more polite way of putting it and I'm
exactly the same as you Holly.
If what I love in my personallife is quick fuckin dirty
fucks. Like that's my jam. I'mlike, bend me over, fuck me. We
get on with our day. Likethat's, that's what I love. And
I you know, I've never liked theidea of foreplay, cuz I just
think I don't like the idea ofseparating those things. I think

(30:03):
it should all just be one event.
But I'm also somebody who'snever really needed much
foreplay. And I've been like,'Can we just get to the
dicking?' And that's kind of Iknow, it's a little bit maybe
politically incorrect to say,because society has, for so many
years been pushing against theidea that sex is just penis in
vagina. And that it's not alljust about having the sex, the

(30:26):
man orgasms, and then it's done.
And I agree with all thosethings. But my personal
preference is just to have a bitof a dicking, and like, and
yeah, I think that's just it,it's not gonna thrill the
client. They're like, 'Oh, oh,it's just that?'

Yeah. And I feel like I'm contradicting myself a
little bit here when I say Ialso really enjoy body worship.
I love being pampered, you saidyou're not so much into the
foreplay, but I am in thatregard. But I really like it to
be all about me. I'm happy foran hour. If you rub every inch
of my body, you lick every inchof my body cover me in things

(31:01):
just fucking massage me, touchme everywhere. Great. But what a
wanker I feel like if you say,'What do you want to do?' And I
say, 'Oh, just pamper me for thewhole session, you've paid
hundreds of dollars for'. I feellike a wanker! So although
that's what I really enjoy, Ifeel like a dick suggesting it.
So I want you to tell me whatexcites you. And we can do that

(31:21):
we can have fun with it, I'mstill going to have a fun time.
But if you ask what I like, it'sprobably not going to excite you
a lot.

Jenna Love (31:29):
I think, no, it's not that I don't like any
foreplay. That's certainly notthe case, and I'm probably
misrepresenting myself here.
Because I like a big long teasethat like, I mean, I love that,
it feels amazing. But it's alsoabout like, for me, a lot of
that is is in the mind, and it'sthe kind of emotional and
intellectual foreplay that wedo. So it's about the person I'm

(31:51):
connecting with, like, that's areally big part of it. And it
just, it varies day to day, somedays, I do want to like spend
time and really explore. Andsome days, I just want a fucking
so yeah, it's certainly not thatI don't like doing that other
stuff. It's just realistically,in my life, I probably just veer
towards the quickies because Ithink they're hot.

So what also comes into that, then, is pressure for
us to enjoy ourselvesauthentically. And to have
orgasms.

Jenna Love (32:23):
Yeah, and this is one that I'm that I'm very
passionate about. And the ideathat pleasure does not
automatically equal orgasm, andorgasms do not automatically
equal pleasure. And that's areal struggle for some people to
get their heads around. I thinkas a society, we're slowly
coming around to the idea thatsomebody can enjoy pleasure

(32:44):
without orgasm. But the otherway around is is really seen as
non existent, particularly withwomen. So there's all this
rhetoric about it being very,very difficult for women to
orgasm. And that's valid. And Iunderstand that that may well be
the majority of women. In mycase, it's the complete

(33:06):
opposite. The wind changes, I'llhave an orgasm like it's fucking
ridiculous

I can vouch for that.

Jenna Love (33:11):
Yeah. And I mean, Holly, you're quite similar. You
come quite easily

Not as easily as you, but I do, I definitely come
easier than a lot of women. Alot of people are surprised.

Jenna Love (33:21):
And for me, there have been many occasions in my
life where I've not beenenjoying myself. And I have
orgasms. Because it's- Likethere's see there's all this
stuff as well, about womenneeding to have an emotional
connection in order to orgasm,or they need a lot of build up.
Or they need mental stimulation.
And I just don't. I don't, Idon't know what it is about me.
I'm sure there are others outthere like me, if you touch my

(33:45):
genitals, I'm probably going tocum. You don't even have to do
it well, like it's just how itis. And look, it's handy in my
line of work. Because there'sthat ego boost for people who
come into sexual contact withme. But it doesn't mean I'm
enjoying it. And that's, I don'tknow, that's really hard for
people to accept. I can tell youthat there have been situations

(34:08):
I've been in that have been nonconsensual, and I have orgasms.
And I have squirted. And thepeople I've been with have taken
that as a sign of me actuallyconsenting, when I'm not. And I
don't know, it's reallyupsetting. And this is something
that's really I know, this wassupposed to be a fun sex
episode. But it's something thatthat I'm really passionate about
sharing because both men andwomen and non binary individuals

(34:30):
absolutely can orgasm whenthey're not having a nice time.
And I think that that's reallyimportant because when people
just take an orgasm as a sign ofthumbs up. That's really
dangerous. So I hadn't reallyanswered the question. I just
went on my rant. I think, yeah,there absolutely is a pressure

(34:50):
for us to enjoy ourselvesbecause as human beings we like
generally most well adjustedhuman beings. like to do things
with other human beings,consensually, we like to have
nice experiences with eachother. I don't think that's a
groundbreaking concept. So as aresult, like our clients want us
to have a nice time. And I thinkthat's, that's so fair. And it

(35:13):
comes from a really nice place.
But it's another one, that'stricky, because sometimes we may
not have a nice time, and it maybe nothing to do with you, we
might just have other shit goingon in our life. But we weren't
able to cancel the booking. Orwe might have, you know,
sometimes you like we've gotperiod pain, and it's just it
kind of gets in the way. Andwe're just, you know, you might

(35:36):
be great, but physically, we'rejust not in the best position.
You know, there's just there'sso many factors like that. So
there is a lot of pressure forus to enjoy ourselves. And I
think that a lot of sex workerswould likely pretend that they
are enjoying themselves, even ifthey're not, and I don't think
that they are doing anythingwrong. By doing that.

I feel like after your words, I anything I say is
going to be a little bit 'pickme' because I definitely feel
pressure to enjoy myself. But Ialso am, and I'm sure anyone
who's had a booking with me canattest to this, an exceedingly
chirpy, intensely excited personin a booking. And I do tend to

(36:19):
just have a good time and doenjoy myself often a lot. You
know, it's perfectly valid thata lot of people don't on
occasions. But oftentimes I am,there are bookings where I have
not had as much of a fun time.
And I think I'm polite, but Iprobably don't pretend as much
that I'm enjoying myself, Ithink I'm a little bit too
transparent for that. I thinkit's pretty obvious when I'm not

(36:40):
happy. And in terms of havingorgasms. I'm pretty quick to
say, 'Sorry, I'm just not goingto cum today'. I've said it many
times. And once again, I'm sureI have clients who are
listening. They can rely on meoften to orgasm, and that's
great. But sometimes it's justnot going to happen. I posted
about it on Twitter this week, Itried to have a wank in the
shower, and I couldn't cum. Andsometimes that's just what

(37:01):
happens. It's a human body. Andit's not a reflection on you or
on the sex toy I was using inthe shower, or on me or on
anything. Sometimes. orgasmsjust don't happen. And that
doesn't mean I wasn't feelingpleasure. And it doesn't mean I
don't enjoy the sex with you.
But yeah, I'm happy to saysometimes, sorry. It's just not

(37:23):
happening today. Let's dosomething else.

Jenna Love (37:25):
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I feel like I'm painting
myself in a really bad lighthere. Like, I think I'm like you
I am quite chirpy, I really lovemy job. Nine times out of 10.
More than that, I'm having agreat time. And I really want to
be there. I just think it'slike, using that as the
barometer for someone else'spleasure can be quite
misleading. I also think oursociety's got this real, I think

(37:47):
a lot of us have this almostentitlement to other people's
orgasms. And I say that assomebody who used to be guilty
of that myself. And at what itwas through dating, I've dated
one woman and one man, both ofwhom were not able to orgasm in
front of other people. So theyboth had orgasms in their life
and could do it on their own,but weren't able to do it when

(38:07):
with someone else. And it reallytaught me that they don't owe me
an orgasm, all I can do is havean open and honest relationship
with them. And if they say thatthey're having a good time, then
I have to trust that they arehaving a good time. That is all
that I can do. And it reallymade me think about the way we
we talk about orgasms, becausewe often sort of say, I'm going

(38:31):
to give you an orgasm, whereas Ithink really what the way we
should frame it is that thatother person is giving you their
orgasm. And that's reallyspecial. And I think we should
be quite grateful when somebodyallows us to see that. But we
shouldn't expect that that theywill be able to give us that

(38:51):
experience.

Yeah, there's definitely been a massive
learning curve for me, during mytime in the sex industry in
relation to particularly themale orgasm. I used to think
that if someone I was withcouldn't come or couldn't get
erect that it was a reflectionon my performance or on me. And
it's taken a long time for me toget to that point of realising

(39:15):
that- and I say this to a lot ofmy clients that do have trouble
achieving either of thosethings= It's about the journey,
not the destination. That's sucha frequent thing that I say. But
it is the most important thingis that we're connecting and
we're having this physical timetogether and sharing pleasure.
And we can share pleasurewithout having either of us
having reached an orgasm. Soyeah, that's a definite societal

(39:35):
thing that we do need to breakdown, that an orgasm is the end
goal of sexual activity.

Jenna Love (39:40):
I think we were talking before about this idea
of when clients say like, whatdo you want to do? And how like
you and I are both I think we'revery open minded. And clients do
often expect us to be likekinkier than we actually are.
Because I've always said thatpeople often will call me kinky
and I go oh, I don't know if Iam. I think open minded is more

(40:01):
appropriate, because I'm kind ofhappy to do whatever within
limits. And I'm happy to trythings. I'll always try
something once, maybe twice. ButI don't have that drive myself
to do particularly kinky things.
I'm just cool to go along withit and give it a go. And if
someone else is getting off onit, then I'm fucking there. You
know? Like, that's enough forme. So yeah, I think that's a
slight difference ofdefinitions. I'm sorry, I can't

(40:23):
do anything fun, can I? This issupposed to be like a fun
episode, and I just make it...
not fun. Anyway, oh, well, backto it. It's gone this direction
now so here we go. So often, Iyou know, we get clients that
are coming to us, and they wantto do something really kinky or

(40:46):
something that's really outthere or, you know, really
forbidden, but they don'tactually have a particular thing
they want to do.

Yeah, one of the most frustrating inquiries that
I receive from time to time is,'Hey, can we try a kink?' and I
go, well, what do you mean, trya kink? You don't try a kink you
have a kink. Or you don't. It's,you know, if you're asking, 'can
we try to experiment withsomething?', sure. I say, 'Well,
what sort of things do you lookat when you look up porn? Or

(41:15):
what do you fantasise about?'And often the response is 'I
dunno'. And it's so frustrating.
Once again, I think, do you wantme to do small penis
humiliation? Or I make a jokelike, 'Well, how about I shove
this massive thing up your ass?'And very quickly, they go, 'Oh,
no, no, that's not what I want'.
So they know very well, whatthey don't want, but not what
they do want. And that can bereally frustrating. I do seem to

(41:36):
get a lot of people come to mewho want to try a golden shower.
And I guess it's it is a verycommon kink these days. And I
wouldn't even call it a kink.
I'd say it's a mild interest.
It's very common. It's verymainstream these days. And
that's cool. But I guess it'salso very mainstream in porn
now. And so a lot of peoplethink, 'Oh, yeah, I could try

(41:57):
that'. And I get a lot of peoplewho don't enjoy it when they try
it. And I pee on them. And Ilook down and they're like,
'meh', I'm like, yeah, well,that's fine. It's totally fine
to feel that way. But I'm herefor the experimentation. And if
you have something in particularyou want to try, I'm happy to
facilitate those sorts ofthings. But yeah, in terms of

(42:19):
like, if you're not actuallyinto it, sometimes I feel like
people feel like because they'reseeing a sex worker, they have
to tick off every box that everexisted, they have to try all of
the sexual things, they have toget the most out of a session by
doing all of the weirdest stuffwe can possibly do. And there's
so much more you can get out ofa booking with a sex worker than

(42:39):
just doing unique things. Ithink it's a really amateurish
sex worker client thing to belike, and it's the same as you
know, when people contact youand say, 'What's your service
list? What are all of the thingsthat you would do? And so I can
try and do all of those thingsin a session'. And I think
that's sort of missing the pointof what seeing a sex worker is.

(43:00):
But you know, if you want to trysomething, and you're not really
into it, it doesn't work for me.
And if it doesn't work for you,it's really just wasting your
booking. But hey, that's that'syour choice, I guess.

Jenna Love (43:11):
Yeah, I think there's a small element of us
that's like, we're happy to, weare a safe place to explore. And
so that, it is useful to sort ofgo, oh, that, you know, I've
been wanting to try this thing.
So great. But it's when youdon't get any sense that they
actually have been wanting totry it. I think golden showers
is the perfect example. My nowex, I met him as a client. And

(43:31):
when the first time we met, he

I think some people see a service list and they see
came in and I was like, 'hey, swhat are you feeling like today
' And he was, he said, 'I thouht we might both start by weein
on each other'. And, like, I'e never forgotten that line.
t was such a good opener.
I cracked up laughing becauseI just thought, well, there
s- straight to it. He's somebdy who loves pee. he loves being
peed on. He loves peeing on peple. So we did that. And i
was really good fun. It'not something that gives me any

(43:55):
hing sexual. But doing itwith somebody who loves it. I'm
ike, this is great. You're enjying yourself. I'm enjoying myse
f too, just not in a sexual wy. But then same as you I get
o many guys who just want tory it. And as I'm happy to d
it an easy one to try, you knowAnd I wee on them. And I'm lik
, so 'What did you What did youhink?', you know, and nine time

(44:15):
out of 10 they go 'Well it jusfelt like you were weeing on m
?' And I'm like, 'Yeah. That'what it is'. Like, I think tha
they haven't thought and likand same as you, I'll say
'Have you watched that in porn' And they go 'No, not really'.
'm like, well, then 'why didyou ever?' like, there's no

(44:35):
arm in trying especially stuffike that. There's no harm in try
ng that. It's just it seems ait a little bit pointless, alth
ugh it's a safe spaceGolden Shower listed, and they
think 'This is going to be mygreat sexual awakening. So I
better try this thing in casethat's what I've always wanted'.
And that's not really what it'sall about.

Jenna Love (44:58):
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's possibility. But
for me personally, whenever I'vereally enjoyed stuff in sex,
I've like looked it up before,like, I've had an interest in
it. Like I, you know, I startedhaving group sex, I loved the
idea of group sex. And I alwayswanted that to happen. And then
when it came, when it wasreality, I was like, 'Oh, my

(45:20):
god, this is better than I evenimagined'. But like, it wasn't
like, I'd never considered theidea and then thought, well, I
better give that a go. Becauseit's really freaky. And out
there. Like, it was something Ialways wanted to. It's something
that again, it's not something Iget as much these days, which is
nice. But in my early days,where I was mainly just working
from a forum environment, I hadquite a few clients early on,

(45:42):
who were quite dominant in thebedroom, and I'm very naturally
submissive. So I'm really happyto go along with that. And those
clients would do like spankingand all that sort of stuff. And
I, you know, genuinely enjoyedit. But they would write
reviews, and they would talkabout that stuff that we did.
And so then I would get allthese clients coming to me, who
started doing those things. ButI could tell that it wasn't in

(46:05):
their nature, and that it wasn'tsomething they were getting off
on. And I would say to them, 'Isthat something you like?' Or
because again, I'm happy to goalong with it? Are you just
doing that because you thinkthat that's what I like? And I
do I get a lot of clients whostart doing that sort of thing.
And they're doing it becausethey think that that's what I'm
going to enjoy. And the theirony with that, particularly
with that power dynamic is thatit's not hot to be dommed if the

(46:30):
person isn't loving domming you.
Like it's not-

The reluctant dom

Jenna Love (46:33):
The reluctant dom is not a hot dom. It's just someone
Yeah, that's, that's such a bigthing with clients with kinks.
hitting you. Like, honestly, ittakes it from spanking to you
just being like 'Ow. Why are...
why are you hitting me?' Andthey're like, 'Are you enjoying
this?' And you're like, 'Well,no', because it's not, you know,
it's not the dynamic. You don't,you need to have the whole
essence there. And that whenclients come to me with fetishes
that they love, whatever itmight be, it might be that they

(46:57):
love you wearing socks the wholetime. You know? Awesome. I'm
going to really get off on thefact that they are just like,
'Oh my god, your socks'. They'reloving. I'm gonna be like, 'Fuc
yeah! My socks!' But if they'e like, 'Leave your socks
n, because that is freaky. Ww, look at the freakiness'. I'l
be lLike you said before. I love

(47:21):
golden showers, like I lovegiving golden showers. But I
don't get off on it. But I getoff on seeing my clients get
off. So it's really excitingdoing something when it's what
your client really enjoys.
I guess they could turn aroundand say, 'Okay, Holly and Jenna,
but I get off on you enjoyingyourself', which is like, which

(47:43):
is really valid because it's thesame. We're all like that, we
get off on on other peoplehaving a good time, and quick
sidebar. I know we all have likeat least one in 10 clients who
comes in and is like, 'I knowit's really weird, but I
actually enjoy the other personfeeling pleasure, I actually
really like it when you enjoyyourself'. And you're like 'That
is the most basic hu-. Like, youliterally just come in here and

(48:06):
announce that you're not apsychopath?' Like that's weird.
That's really weird. Of courseyou like it when the other
person enjoys themselves. That'scalled being a human being,
thank you for having empathy.
Yeah, so I get that clients dowant us to enjoy ourselves,
because that makes it moreenjoyable for them. But it's
just that fine line where it'slike, but we are providing a
service. And we and we're notgoing to enjoy ourselves, if

(48:27):
you're not. Like that, it kindof goes both ways, I guess.

And on that note, we may also freely consent to
things that we don't enjoy, ordon't really want to do.

Jenna Love (48:39):
Yeah, there's this real, you know, society has come
a really long way in terms ofconsent, which is fucking
wonderful. And, you know, Idon't want anyone to ever feel
like they are pressured to dosomething that they don't want
to do in the bedroom, just toplease their partner. I think
it's really good that we'recoming to a place of accepting
that. But there's also thisreally huge, very nuanced

(49:01):
spectrum, between, 'Oh my god, Ilove that, I want to do it every
day, it feels amazing'. And 'Iwill never do that, not for a
million dollars'. There are somany things that fit somewhere
in between those two things onthe spectrum. And I always think
about it in terms of my work.
Like there are things that Ilove doing and always want to
do. There are things that Iquite like doing. There are

(49:21):
things that I get nothing outof, but have no issue doing.
There are things that I don'treally like, but if there's
money involved, sure thing, andthen there are things that I
wouldn't I wouldn't do for moneyor anything. And and that that
spectrum I think is reallyimportant because there are
things that I will do, becauseit's my job, that if somebody

(49:42):
asked me in my personal life,I'll be like, no. But it's my
job, so I'm happy to do it.

Yeah, that spectrum you just described is perfect. I
can 100% relate to that. Andobviously this doesn't mean that
clients can do whatever theywant. You still have to get
consent.

Jenna Love (50:01):
Yeah, and this is, this is the thing like, this is
where the SWERFs come in and saythat, you know, 'You're being
paid, so you can't consent'. AndI just, they're missing so much
nuance. And they're missing,like, the way the fucking world
works like, we're, we allconsent to do things that we
don't want to do every singleday. Doing the laundry, taking

(50:24):
out the bins, going to work,doing certain things at our
jobs. As human beings, we arevery capable. And I think it's
our right to be able to consentto things that we don't want to
do, because consent and desireare different things and they
should be and you know, in anideal world, wouldn't it be
magical if all we only everconsented to the things that we

(50:46):
desired to do, but we know thatthat's not reality. And we know
that sometimes there areincentives other than desire,
money can be one of thoseincentives. And that to suggest
that the money takes away ouragency to make an informed
decision about whether it'sworth it or not, is really
infantilizing. But I mean,that's what SWERFs love to

(51:07):
infantilize us. But yeah, I justthink it's something that I know
people outside of the sexindustry sort of go, 'Oh, well,
how can you agree to do thingsyou don't want to do? Doesn't
that mean, you're being takenadvantage of blah, blah, blah'.
And I guess I would suggest thatwe all do that all the time. And
if you're only uncomfortablewith the idea of me consenting
to things that I don't desire todo in the bedroom. There might

(51:34):
be a bit of a cognitivedissonance there, I think.
So I thought I'd chuck in alittle question from one of our
patrons here. I'm switching upthe format a bit. But when we
said we were doing this episode,he sent us this he said, 'I have
never and would never forceanything or cross any boundaries
of the lovely lady that I'mprivileged to spend time with,
is asking, 'May I kiss you?' ina booking seen as

(51:56):
thoughtful/respectful?

Look, I don't take issue with it. But I do think
it's a little bit superfluous. Ithink, once you're in a booking
setting, the body language saysa lot. If you go to kiss her and
she leans in, I think you'regood. I don't think you need to
ask before doing each individualthing. I do think, as Jenna said
before, just clarifying alongthe way, you know, listening to
how they're breathing, lookingat their facial expressions, and

(52:19):
maybe saying, you know, 'howdoes this feel' or asking things
like that is all valid. And Ithink a lot of sex workers will
guide you as to their consent aswell. And say, 'No, I'm not into
that'.

Jenna Love (52:31):
I think this will surprise you, Holly, but I love
it. If somebody asks if they cankiss me, instant panty dropper,
I think it's really hot.

I think it's overkill. I sort of go 'Oh, come
on. Just get on me. Take me!'

Jenna Love (52:42):
Yeah look, I don't need people to ask. That- I
mean, sorry. In a booking, likethis, we've got to clarify.
We're talking about, in abooking situation where there
has already been negotiationbeforehand. And there's an
understanding of theexpectations. Completely
different outside of a sex workenvironment. But yeah, I don't
need people to ask if they cankiss me. But I, I see it as very

(53:04):
thoughtful and respectful. Andmy answer is always like, 'Oh,
my god, of course!', and I jumpon them. Like, I'm never like,
'Oh, let me think about it'.
Like, I'm always ready for it.
Again, in a booking situation.
But, but I love it. I think it'ssuper nice. So there you go. We
haven't given you a straightanswer, because we've got two
different answers.

(53:27):
Our misconception this weekmight be controversial. People
might disagree. People mightriot about this, but the
misconception we've chosen isthat the majority of men cannot
find the clitoris. Do you thinkit's a misconception Holly?

I do think it's a misconception. Most of my
clients seem to have zero issuesfinding my clitoris and it's
wonderful. I was not able to cumclitorally until oh gosh, maybe
about five or six years ago, Inever was able to enjoy clitoral
stimulation for many years. Sonow I absolutely 'froth it' as

(54:06):
they say, as the youth saytoday. What about, what about
you Jenna? What's your opinionson the men's ability to find
clitori?

Jenna Love (54:15):
I think it's the biggest misconception of our
time.

Whoa!

Jenna Love (54:20):
Okay, no, that's not true. But I think it's, I don't
know. From my lived experience,which is all I can speak from, I
have the opposite problem, Menzone the fuck in on my clitoris.
I don't know if I have a veryprominent clitoris or what, but
they just go straight onto itand I'm like 'Jesus Christ! That
is, wow!' Like, mines. I don'tknow, mines very sensitive. And

(54:43):
I just yeah, I have the oppositeproblem. I find I have come
across very few men that haven'tbeen able to find it. And in
reality, a lot of guys go theretoo quickly for me and focus too
much on it. And it's it's a verybloody sensitive area so yeah, I
often find myself being like,'Oh god, get away from my

(55:04):
clitoris, holy shit!' like theyjust focus so much on it. And I
know that that comes from, wellI think that it comes from this
whole push about how most womencan't come from penetration and
most women need clitoralstimulation. And you know, I'm
that's not true of me I can comefrom clitoral stimulation, I can
come from g-spot, frompenetration, from anal,

(55:25):
whatever, as we've talked about,I cum a lot. So for me, like, I
don't need this focus on there.
And some some women may likethat, which is great, but it
just comes back to that thing oflike, everybody is different.
You know? Yeah. And it's areally sensitive part of your
body. I also get a lot of guysthat pull the hood back. And
that is incredibly painful forme. And what hurts me about it,
is, this is gonna sound socruel, but the smug look on

(55:49):
their face. Because they thinkthey've got this secret, they're
like 'Other guys don't do that,do they?' And I'm like, 'No!
Thank god!'. Because it's, Ineed the, I need the protection
on there. And a lot of peoplewho have been with me will know
that my preference is forstimulation, like right above or
right next to my clitoris. Andthen it's sort of like, how do I
describe it like, yeah, clitoraladjacent stimulation. It gives

(56:10):
my clit enough like, kind ofmovement oh, I think Holly's
demonstrating what she does onmy clit...

No I'm taking notes.

Jenna Love (56:18):
Oh you're taking notes! Yeah, clitoral adjacent
stimulation for me works reallywell. Straight on it can be
okay, depending how aroused I amand whatever. But pulling back
the hood. And going all inhurts. It's way too much for me.
And again, some women absolutelylove that, of course. But I just

(56:39):
don't know where this idea ofmen not being able to find the
clitoris came from. If anything,when I see female clients,
they're really worried. They'relike I don't, because generally
they have less experience withvulvas than penises. And I can
totally relate to that. Theyhave no trouble finding it,
because they're not blind. Butyou know, if anything, they tend

(57:00):
to be a bit more concerned aboutit. But it just annoys me that
this is such a common statement.
And there's all this like 'ugh,men never go down on women and
it's all about them'. And myexperience is the exact
opposite. I'm like, 'get off myclit and let me suck your cock
goddamnit!'.

And now it's time for Shit People Say. Jenna has
encountered an interestingindividual in the depths of
YouTube.

Jenna Love (57:26):
As I always do. I know I'm a glutton for it.
Alrighty, so this is it's acomment on those BuzzFeed
videos. Again, they are the giftthat keeps on giving. I love it.
So somebody commented, 'Sex workisn't work'. Oh, they thought
they had a real hot take there,didn't they?

Edgy

Jenna Love (57:44):
Edgy! And I always respond with this. I said 'You
try it for a week and come backand tell me that it isn't work'.
Because that's what I like,really? If you really don't
think it's work, go give it ago. And let me know what you
think. Because it's fuckingwork. Like I can't, anyway, I'm
pretty sure it's a woman. But Idon't know. I'm going to call
her she. I'm going to assume hergender because I don't like her.

(58:07):
She wrote 'Just came back. It'snot.' Which I thought it's
pretty, it's pretty good. It'spretty sassy. And I said, 'Oh,
send me your advertising'.
Because I know that sheobviously didn't go and try sex
work for a week. You know? Shesaid, 'Nah, sorry, I do real
work. I don't make money theeasy way. I don't sell my body.
I sell my time'. And I was like,'Yeah, so do I. Like literally I

(58:29):
sell my time. Like it's, it'sclocked by the hour'. And I
said, 'You honestly think thatit's easy to do what I do? Think
about it for half a second. It'snot easy'. And that's what I
don't get, like, I understandjust pulling out the old trope
of 'eh it's just laying backwith y-'. But really think about
it. Really think about the job.

(58:50):
Does it sound easy to you?

Yeah, it might be good money. There might be a lot
of money, but it's never fast oreasy money.

Jenna Love (58:57):
I think it can be quick. I think it can be, well,
maybe not these days. Back inthe Backpage days.

Yeah, yeah. There's definitely some time investment
or greater time investment thatgoes into these things than
people think and yeah, and it'sdefinitely not easy money. Even
the easiest bookings I've hadare still work.

Jenna Love (59:17):
Yes. She said, 'You're taking selfies, videos
at most. Not that frickin hardbabe.' And like this is on a
video about me being a fullservice sex worker. So I was
like hmmm, I responded, 'Iliterally have sex with people
for money'. And that, that isnot to say that like being an
online only sex worker. I'm notsaying that that's easy, either.

(59:39):
That is very, very hard work.
And I do that as well. And Iprefer the in-person and I find
it, not less work, but I find itmore rewarding. But I just
thought like what a fuckingidiot, you don't even like,
these people never know whatthey're even talking about. She
responded. 'Ah ha ha ha hathat's so sad for you;. And I
said 'Well, not as sad assomeone who comments on a video
without even understanding thefirst thing about it', she said,

(01:00:00):
'I understand that instead ofworking a real job, you slam
your booty into anyone thatinserts money in first, like a
gumball machine. Slide a five inand get your rocks off. Jesus
Christ. It's so pathetic and sadlike, really? This was your goal
and you're proud of it? Laughingemoji'. And like, I don't, it

(01:00:20):
wasn't my goal. What do youmean? Like? No.

Holly Harte (01:00:24):
The other frustrating things with her
points is that she's, it's thiswhole glorification of 'the
grind'. It's like 'your job iseasy'. Like there's nothing
worse than having a job that isnot soul destroyingly hard
labour or mentally taxing to thepoint where you need four weeks
of leave just to deal with thejob. I'm not saying at all that
sex work's easy. But it's such abizarre thing to think that if

(01:00:47):
it was easy, that somehow makesit not worthy.

Jenna Love (01:00:50):
A problem. Yeah. I also think what gets me so much
about these people is that herview of me is that I quote,
'slam my booty into anyone thatinserts money', which is pretty
like, I wish I, that soundsgreat. But if that's what she
thinks, if she thinks that I amjust, you know, this vision of
me that she has, is that anyonewho waves a fiver at me, I'll

(01:01:14):
spread my legs for, and whywould you want to be cruel to
somebody in that position? Likeif what you think is, you think
so low of me, and you think I'min such a desperate situation?
And that's with all thesepeople, whenever they're like,
'Oh, God, you couldn't doanything better than that? Oh,
blah, blah'. And it's like,well, if that's what you think,
then why are you being anasshole to me? Shouldn't you be

(01:01:35):
really kind, like, why are youbeing such a dick to the
downtrodden? If that's your ifthat's your view? I'm not
downtrodden. But if that's, youknow, I said, 'Yep, as I
suspected, you don't knowanything about it'. She said,
'And as I expected, gumballmachine'. I don't know how I
proved that I was a gumballmachine. And look, I got pretty

(01:01:57):
sassy here. But I said, 'Babe,does it upset you that I make
more than you and only have towork a few hours a week? I'm
just really not sure why you'reso invested in this'. And like,
that's like you were sayinglike, why is it seen- I think in
any other industry, if somebodywas earning more money for
working less hours, they wouldbe praised for that, that would
be considered intelligent, thatthey'd be using their their

(01:02:20):
knouse(sp?). But if you're a sexworker, and you're doing that,
it's 'Oh, how pathetic' and it'slike, isn't that really smart? I
have more time to spend with myfamily. I have more time to
spend on my hobbies to improvemyself. I'm not slaving away at
a job earning money for someoneelse all the time. She said 'I'm
just not sure why you can't geta real job as previous comment
stated. I think you're just madbecause I'm making a very true

(01:02:44):
point. Put $1 in, get $1 out iswhat they say I guess.'

Do they?

Which I don't know what that meant. What?

That's the worst business model I've ever heard.

She said 'Nah, but on the real, not even joking. Do
you do coupons? Laughing emoji.
Or a fall sale? laughing emoji.
Maybe a spring savings? laughingemoji You make it way too easy,
baby girl.'

Ooh baby girl.

And like people often they love this one,
they're like 'Oh are therecoupons?', or 'Can you get it on
Afterpay hahaha?' And it's like,actually, yeah, like there are
some some workers who will havelike after 10 visits, you get an
extra half an hour or

Sometimes I do sales, in summer. Yeah, I'll be
like, 'Hey, I'm doing a sale'.
Yeah, that's that's business.
Sorry.

They'll give bonuses to their best clients. They
might give extra time that youknow, they might give gifts
around Christmas time orwhatever. Like, yeah, actually,
that kind of stuff does happen.
I don't know why you think it'sso hilarious. And I just love 'I
just don't know why you can'tget a real job'. And it's like,
why? Why do you want me to havea shitter job than I have now?
Does that make it, I guess it'sthat? Are they jealous? like is

(01:03:55):
it? I don't know.

As always, we'd love to thank our wonderful
patrons this week for supportingus. Our new Giving Somebodies
are Ms Rainbow and Liz. Our NewVery Generous Somebodies are Sai
Jaiden Lillith, Evelyn Hunt,Josie and Crispy Cola. Our Even

(01:04:21):
More Generous somebodies areTimmy, Andrew, Adam Smith, Leo,
Lachlan, Cass, Sub London, MissBilly, Diane Needs and Nora
Knightley.

And our Extremely Generous Somebodies are Aaron,
Samuel, Andrew, Pete andTheodore Betts the first
Esquire. Thanks so much forlistening. I hope I haven't
scared you off. I do.. I do likemy job. I promise.

Yeah. We love fucking you.

Please look out for us on Twitter, Instagram,
Facebook, and Patreon. Our nameeverywhere is Somebody You Pod
as in podcast. Our Patreonstarts at just $3 a month, and
you can get all of our episodesad free and a day early, plus
bonus episodes, behind thescenes action, bloopers and
more. Thank you for taking thetime to listen to the voices of

(01:05:17):
sex workers. And remember,Somebody You Love might just be
a sex worker.

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