May 19, 2023 • 33 mins
Somewhere in the Middle welcomes William Attaway, Leadership Coach for Catalytic Leadership, LLC
William Attaway is a Leadership Coach for Catalytic Leadership, LLC, a company he founded to help leaders to INTENTIONALLY grow and thrive. He has served in local church ministry for over 25 years and is currently the Lead Pastor of Southview Community Church, a church in Herndon, Virginia (near Washington, D.C.), where he has served since 2004. He holds a Ph.D. in Old Testament (with an emphasis on Biblical Backgrounds and Archaeology), and he loves to read and speak about leadership, organizational change, archaeology, and building up people and teams. His newest book is Catalytic Leadership (January 2022). Originally from Birmingham, Alabama, William now lives in northern Virginia with his beautiful wife, Charlotte, and their two daughters.
Connect with William AttawayFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/williamattaway
Twitter: https://twitter.com/WilliamAttaway
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wattaway/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamattaway/
Website: https://catalyticleadership.net/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(02:08):
Happy Friday everyone. Welcometo somewhere in the middle with
Michele Barard. I'm your host,Michele Barard, founder and CEO
of Michelly broad LLC. And I'mreally happy to share this hour
with you where we examine allthose places where spirit needs
like in the joys and challengesthat may bring. You guys know I
like to start by thanking MissBeverly black and tribe family
(02:30):
channel for helping me createthe space for us. Tribe family
channel is home to an assortmentof thought provoking shows that
explore life, spirit, businessand culture, including the woman
at the well hosted by MissBeverly black herself. Somewhere
in the middle was born on TrappFamily channel. And though we
have grown onto our ownplatform, we are ever grateful
(02:51):
and loyal to our roots. Toparaphrase an African proverb,
we are here only because westand on the shoulders of those
who came before us. I want tothank my guests on April 21 2023
Show Jason Zehra, owner of BlueMoon estate sales, Rancho
Cucamonga, you can connect withJason on social media and at his
(03:13):
website. If you missed thatshow, make sure you listen to
the replay. You can find ourcomplete show archives,
including the April 21 show atthe summer in the middle
podcast.com. I also want toshout out Bruce George of the
geniuses common movement whichencourages all of us to embrace
our new genius and share it withthe world. This is an essential
(03:35):
message and we really need toshare it with the young people.
But it's not just for the kids,we adults sometimes need to be
reminded that the world needsour genius. Learn more about the
geniuses calm and movement atWWW dot genius is common.com.
Now this month's guest helpsleaders grow professionally and
(03:55):
personally so they can leadbetter. William AdAway is a
leadership coach for catalyticleadership LLC, a company he
founded to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
He has served in local churchministry for over 25 years. And
as currently the lead pastor ofsouthview community church, a
(04:17):
church in Herndon, Virginia nearWashington, DC, where he has
served since 2004. He holds aPhD in Old Testament with an
emphasis in biblical backgroundsin archaeology, and he loves to
read and speak about leadership,organizational change,
archeology, and building uppeople in teams. His newest book
(04:40):
is catalytic leadership, whichreleased in January 2022.
Originally from Birmingham,Alabama, William now lives in
Northern Virginia with hisbeautiful wife Charlotte and
their two daughters. So I wouldlike to welcome Dr. William
AdAway to somewhere in themiddle with Michelle bride,
William Thank you so much forbeing on the show with me.
(05:01):
Michelle, thank you so much forhaving me. It's an honor to be
here. Well,
I'm excited because you've got awealth of information that you
can share with the audience. Andyou have an interesting personal
journey as well. So you probablyknow already, I start my
interviews with to question. Ifyou're ready, I'll go ahead and
(05:22):
ask them absolutely far away.All right. So William AdAway.
Who are you in? How did youbecome who you are today?
It's a journey, that's for sure.I think I would define myself
with a couple of words. First,I'm a Christ follower, than my
faith is incredibly important tome. I am a husband. I'm a
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father. I'm a pastor, and I'm acoach and a writer.
Wow. And how did you get to beall of those things? The first
thing you mentioned was a Christfollower. Was that just okay? I
was born and put in the church.And that's it down for life. Was
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that it?
I did, I did grow up going tochurch. But it was not personal.
It was my family stayed notmine. Went to college, like so
many do. And that fell away. AndI met Jesus when I was 20 years
old. And at that point,everything began to change. And
it became my faith, not myparents, not anyone else's. And
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from that point, for the lastnearly 30 years now, that's been
a journey, every day learning alittle bit more about what that
means. And leaning into that,hopefully, more often than not.
What does it mean for you like,so you're 20 years old? How did
you come to meet Christ at thatage? That's a time where most of
us are, I'm not gonna say mostof us, but a lot of us are, you
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know, we had the club where
I was there. I was absolutelythere. You know, it was actually
one of my roommates at the time,I was renting a house with two
other guys to cut expenses. Andone of them was a strong
follower of Jesus. And he wouldask me questions from time to
time. And, you know, I grew upin church, I knew the right
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answers. I knew what to tell himto get him off my back, so to
speak. And he he would listen.Okay. And then one day, he said
something that I'll neverforget, he asked me some
question that I have long sinceforgotten, and I gave him some
totally forgettable answer. Andhe looked at me and he said, You
know, I think you either need toget serious about actually
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having faith, or quit pretendinglike you do.
Oh, oh, right. Interesting. Didyou take that?
Uh, well, at first I was, youknow, a little ticked, like,
really, like, that's a jerkthing to say, like, come on now.
But over time, I began to thinkabout that, and realize, you
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know, what, he's right. Youknow, often it takes somebody
from outside of us to see whatwe don't see. It's hard to see
the whole picture when you're inthe frame. And that's where I
was, I was in the frame, and Icouldn't see what I couldn't
see. And what Dave did this guy,he from the outside, he saw
clearly, and said something tohelp me gain awareness of where
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I really was. So where did thatlead you? Over time, it led me
to a faith of my own. But it wasa process, it was not a one and
done. It was not a magic moment,there was no Damascus moment, so
to speak, I took close to a yearreally have a lot of
conversations, a lot ofquestions, a lot of wrestling
and struggling with what thatmeant. What it meant, for me
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going forward, I was working inthe business world, and you
know, had a very clear target ofwhere I wanted to go, what I
wanted to do was all aboutadvancement and promotions, and
you know, more of that greenstuff you can spend at the
store. And all of a sudden,things begin to shift. And
that's the time, it really tooktime for me to begin to value
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things differently. Andunderstand that, that God maybe
had a different purpose for methan that. And that was a couple
of years earning.
So how did that shift yourperspective in in business?
Because you were in business youwere working? You know, in a
corporation, I'm assuming sincethe occupation,
yeah, that was back in the earlydays of cell phones, sales and,
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you know, we had the brickphones and then this new flip
phone that, you know, would foldlike the Star Trek was was
actually, that's funny. The starTech had just come out while I
was working there, and they rana promotion. If you sold 10 of
them, they would give you onewith your name engraved on it.
And I thought, I want that. So Isold a lemon. Like I'm getting
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that. And so funny. So fewpeople remember the start But
that was, that was a part of mystory right? Over time, though,
that lost the luster, you knowof what it had once meant. It
was all about the next thing andbigger, higher, faster. And
obviously, it became differentand my values and what was
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important to me begin to shift.And I began to think more about,
what, what is it that I'm herefor? And how is it that God has
gifted me to serve other people?I don't think there's any such
thing as a wasted experience. Ithink God can use every
experience in our lives, eventhe ones that we think we wish
we hadn't had. What are we goingto use them for, though? Right?
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Are we going to use them? Justfor us? Are the experiences in
our life just for us? Or arethey also for the benefit of
those around us? And so theseare the questions that I began
to wrestle with, what is it thatthe God wanted to do not just in
me, but through me.
So did that put you on your pathto becoming a pastor,
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it was a very roundabout path. Iactually went to college,
initially, as a pharmacy, a prepharmacy major, because I had
worked in a pharmacy in highschool and thought that would be
a great way to invest in peopleand serve people got to organic
chemistry and decided that thisis not what I want to do for the
rest of my life, and quicklychanged the directions there.
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And that's, that's the point atwhich I had dropped out and
said, I want to, I want to justwork for a while until I figure
out what I want to do. Andthat's the point at which I met
Jesus. And things began toshift. And I now had a different
direction, toward back toschool, and thought, I'll work
at a church because like, that'ssomething that I can do to
invest in people, I worked attwo different churches. And you
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know, it was it was a decentexperience. The second one was
not a great experience for me.And I saw some of the the ugly
underside and a lot of ways ofwhat church can be. And I
remember coming home and tellingmy wife, I really would rather
do just about anything else thanwork in a church. And I took a
job for the last six months ofcollege, cleaning bathrooms
working on a janitorial staff,just so that I wouldn't have to
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continue working at a churchwasn't at all
that was been a reallychallenging experience at that
particular church.
Well, you know, every church hasits own unique challenges. And a
lot of times it's a matter of amisfit between, you know,
somebody who has a differentview of what church could be and
shouldn't be. And that's what itwas, in this case, I had a
different perspective on why wewere there, that we're not here
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just for us. You know, we'rehere for people who aren't here
yet, who's going to speak up forthe people who aren't here yet,
who's going to speak up for thepeople who won't say anything.
That's what I feel like God'scalled me to do. So I tell you
all that to say that when I wentto seminary, when I finished
college, we moved to seminary onTexas, I had no intention of
working at a church. Because Ihad said I'm done with that. My
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intent was to get a doctorate toteach I thought I can I can pour
into people invest in peoplethat way I love to teach this
would be fun. And that was myintent. My I don't have a
traditional master's degree,Master divinity, monta Master of
Arts. Because my intent was togo and do a PhD, which I
eventually did. But it was whileI was there, working at a
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church, but in the back office,right working in the tech
sector. And it was there that Iwent to it was invited to a
conference and went and heardsomebody described the church in
a way that I had never heard thechurch described, and painted a
picture of what the church couldbe. And it captivated me. And
here now 25 years later, I'mstill thinking about that. Still
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thinking? And what if what if wecould really be the movement
that Jesus started? What if wecould really be the church? Not
the not the bad part? Not thestuff that's just people getting
messy, right? But the movementthat's about reaching people far
from God inviting them to comehome? What if what if we were
about that? What if we wereabout reconnecting people with
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their Heavenly Father and withone another? What if we were
about what Jesus prayed forbeing one, just like He and the
Father of one.
So what does that look like toyou?
It boils down to what Jesus saidthe night before he was
crucified. He was talking to thedisciples and he said, This is
how people will know that you'remy follower. This is how, you
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know they had they had unmadegrown up under the Mosaic Law
613 commands in the Law ofMoses. That's what they knew.
And Jesus said, A new command Igive you. They're like, really
another 130 We don't needanother with a new command.
Again, you said, Love oneanother. By this, all people
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will know that you're myfollowers, if you love one
another. And this is what theApostle Paul would later call
the Law of Christ. This is thecommand of the New Covenant, not
the Old Covenant, the law ofMoses. That's not our covenant.
Our covenant is the law ofChrist, the one command. So
that's what that looks like.What does it look like to love
one another? What does it meanto, to love even if we disagree,
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even if we don't think the sameor act the same or vote the
same, or? Yeah, love oneanother? What does that mean?
And Paul fleshes this out withso many of the one another
commands that we see in the NewTestament. These aren't
additions to the law of Christ.These are ways to understand it.
What does love one another looklike? Well, it looks like
forgiving one another. It lookslike encouraging one another. It
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looks like praying for oneanother. He looks like bearing
one another's burdens. That'swhat it looks like. But at its
core, what does this look like?What is this picture of the
movement that Jesus started?
Love one another. Love is thehighest law. He said. I don't
I'm not a big voter of theBible. But I vaguely recall it
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being something like it beingthe law above all other laws.
Yes,
absolutely. You know, Paul wroteabout this. And First
Corinthians 13, which we oftenread at weddings, which makes me
chuckle a little bit. Likefaith, hope and love about these
three, but the greatest of theseis love. highest of all,
exactly. Right. Well, becauselove with love, theoretically,
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you're not going to bonk anybodyon the head and take their stuff
in theory. You know, you'regoing to be fair to people.
Yeah, you're going to treatpeople well with dignity and
respect. That's right, we'regoing to cooperate, we're going
to find a way to work together,even as you say, if we disagree,
we learn to listen more than wetalk. When we love. In marriage,
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marriage becomes a mutualsubmission, not this dominion of
one over another. That's what itmeans to love one another. And
it impacts every part of ourlives. You can't wall off one
part and say, well, not there.Really. Because Jesus didn't
give any exception clauses. Lastyear was a pretty
simple law. I love one another.He didn't say love one another
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at home, but not at work.
He didn't. And you know, as Iread that, in the original
language, you know what it meansin the original language? It
means love one another. That'swhat it means.
That's fabulous. So how doesthat inform you in business?
Because you are you do business?So how does that concept of love
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at the core, inform the way thatyou coach the way that you do
business the way that you workwith people.
Now what I do these days isaccording to an invest in
leaders to help them get better.I agree with what Craig
Groeschel says that when aleader gets better, everybody
benefits the people that theylead on their team, their
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company, their church, theirorganization, their spouse,
their kids, their clients, theircustomers, everybody benefits
just by a leader getting better.So that's where I pour my time
and energy, and I want to helpleaders get better, I coach
them, I equip them, I help themto get better at leadership, too
often, we throw leaders in andsay alright, so lead now, you
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don't have any training, wedon't have any encouragement,
there's no coach to help them.And too many of us learn to lead
that way. And we found all ofthe ditches and all of the
potholes and all of the ways notto do something. I want to help
leaders avoid some of those. Andso what I do is help them to
intentionally grow in theirleadership in their influence,
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but also intentionally grow as aperson beyond just what they do.
That's where it starts. Fromthere. It then extends down to
thinking about the people thatthey lead. How do you see people
as more than just a cog in themachine more than just what they
do, you begin to see them as anactual 3d human being. And you
know, what's at the core ofthat, you're learning how to
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love one another. Don't tellanybody that that goes back to
Jesus.
I think that's so amazing thatyou can kind of pull all that
into kind of that business arenawhere in the United States at
least, I can't speak to otherplaces. But in the US, we tend
to want to compartmentalize ourlives. Oh, sure. Our faith is on
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Sunday or whatever day of theweek, you deal with your faith,
you know, maybe Wednesday andSunday, maybe Saturday, whatever
it is. So, um, our home life is,you know, this piece before 8am
And after 7pm. Right, that kindof thing. And, and then work is
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its own thing. So how do youfind that leaders take? What I
want to say is your guidance,your understanding and your
sharing on board, and how doesthat shift them in the way they
operate in their businesses intheir in their lives?
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You know, Michelle, I think itbegins with understanding that
there is a myth that isperpetuated in our culture. And
it goes back to the ancientGreeks. The idea is that we can
compartmentalize our lives andwe can wall off certain parts
from certain other parts. Youknow, we're coming up on
Thanksgiving here in the US anda few weeks from now, as we as
we record this. And one of myfavorite parts about
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Thanksgiving is the plates thatwe use, because they have these
little barriers between thedishes right through the main
kind of little wall, and thenyou have your side dish, because
I don't like my food to touch.I'm one of those people. I know,
it's all going to be togetherdown here. But up here, I want
to say for each flavor, right,and I love those plates. But too
many of us think our lives arelike those plates. And we have
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these little walls that we canseparate. And this part is not
going to touch what happens overhere and, and what happens at
the office doesn't affect whathappens at home and vice versa.
And that's a cute myth. Thatidea of compartmentalization.
But it's just that it's a myth,that the fact is we are created
as unified people as one, everypart touches every other part.
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And the idea that you can wallone part off, and it has no
influence on any other part isreally just silly. The only way
for that to happen is to have acomplete lack of integrity.
Integrity is where all thepieces touch and work together.
And that's what we strive for.And this is what I strive for
with my clients, I want to coachthem in such a way that there is
integrity in all parts of theirlife. So, yeah, we tend to
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compartmentalize our faith, andwe compartmentalize our work,
and we compartmentalize ourhome, but the people that I lead
the team that I lead, I want toknow what's going on in
different parts of their life,because I want them to
understand I see them asindividual people, not just as
what they do, I want them tounderstand that I care about
what happens in home, I careabout what happens in their
life, you know, as I do that, asI begin to value them and see
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them as people. What I found andwhat the people that I coach on
is that those employees, thoseteam members, they appreciate
that they appreciate being seenfor more than just what they do.
And they begin to lean in. Andthey bring more of themselves to
what they do. They lean in andthey work harder and they invest
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more. And that's not themotivation behind why we do it.
We do it. Well, because we loveone another. But the fact of the
matter is, there's a verypragmatic reason why this
matters, and why the Americanenvironment and culture could
learn so much from thisprinciple. If we see people as
people, and we value them notjust for what they do, but for
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who they are. And we invest inthem and pour into them and try
to help them to equip equip themto accomplish the dreams that
they have coaches what we havefor them to do. We see people
more like Jesus
does. Well in do you think thenthat people give more of
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themselves when they're in thattype of environment? Because
they see the leader giving moreof themselves? I mean, is there
some correlations there?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Becausepeople are going to lead well,
they're not going to followwhere they're lead, right? And
if you don't like where peopleare going or how people are
acting, you have to ask yourselfas a leader the question Have I
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led them to do that? How aboutlead them to be that way? Or is
this just what happens when Ihaven't LED? Well, and this is
the point of intentionality. Andthis is why intentionality is so
important. You don'taccidentally become a great
leader. Nobody in the history ofever has woken up one day and
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said, Oh, wow. I'm a greatleader. I don't know how that
happened. I didn't mean for thatto happen. But here I am. It
didn't happen that way. You haveto be intentional about it. You
have to be purposeful in yourgrowth, and what you're
surrounding yourself with andwhat you're bringing into your
life, the inputs of your life.And you have to be intentional
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in what you're doing as theleader pouring into those around
you helping them understand theyare valued far beyond just what
they do.
So what kinds of things do youfind are issues for your leaders
when they first come to you?
You know, it's this is this isone of the challenges of what I
do, there's not a cookie cutterapproach to it. I can't just
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hand you 12 modules and say,Here you go, just watch these.
This will fix all your problems.So so much of what I do is very
customized around what eachleader is struggling with. And
I'm not sure I've ever had twothat were the same. Exactly.
There's some similar threadsthat run through them to be
sure. But each one is uniquebecause they're going to
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struggle with with somethingthat's well inherent in their
story that comes from theirbackground and comes from who
they are. For instance, oneclient was was really wrestling
around the idea of what's nexthe has his wrapping up one Part
of his story, wrapping up in themilitary coming to the point of
retirement and that then he'sready for the next piece. But
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what's next, there's 1015different directions he could
go, what now? He wants to takewhat's been invested in him and
use it for the benefit of otherpeople. But But how where, and
so we walked through thatjourney together. And that
looked different for him than itdid for another guy who is
coming to the end of a very longrun, right, moving into
retirement, but he wasn't doneyet. Right? What's the next
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chapter gonna look like? Well,that was a whole different
ballgame. He was a he was a highpower C suite leader, moving
into retirement, but ready forthe next chapter, it was going
to look very, very different forhim than it did for the first
guy. Each one is unique, eachone is different. And what I
want to do is help them to leaninto their own personal story, I
want to lean into their ownwiring, I call it. But first,
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you have to understand yourwiring. You have to discover it.
Each one of us is wireduniquely. You know, there are so
many great assessments and toolsthat are helpful here from the
Myers Briggs to the disk. Onethat I'm using these days with
teams is called the workinggenius from Patrick Lencioni.
He's table group, fantastic toolto help you understand what you
bring to the table. What is yourarea of passion, your area of
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working genius? What are yourareas of working competency, you
can do them, but they're notyour favorite? And what are your
areas of working frustration,those areas that drain you and
if you have to do those thingslong term, your batteries are
going to be so low, you're notgoing to be any good to anybody.
I want to help people understandtheir wiring, I want to help
leaders understand that becausewhen they understand their
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wiring, they can lean in totheir areas of genius. But not
just that, they can begin tounderstand how the people they
lead are wired, so they can helplift them up, and help them move
into a place where they'reoperating out of their areas of
genius to because that's what itreally means to lead well.
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So it sounds like that wouldalso help them with building the
best possible team. Yeah,because if let's say you're a
genius is marketing and someoneelse's genius is the finance and
someone else in I'm using broadterm short, short, it gets more
specific than that. But you canthen say, Oh, we got gaps in
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these areas, let's find peoplebeing want to build that role,
and they can live their bestlives.
Absolutely. That's what we want.And we want everybody to be
living the best version ofthemselves. We want them to be
designing that so that they gohome, well fulfilled, and they
don't dread coming back to work,that don't dread, like, gotta go
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back there. You know, the Sundaynight blues, right? You gotta
gotta go back tomorrow. I don'twant that for them. I don't want
that for me. I don't want thatfor any of the leaders that I
work with.
That's awesome. So let's sayyou've got a leader. You're
transitioning from corporate?And they're like, Okay, what do
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I do next? What are two or threethings that you would advise
them to do or books to read tohelp them start getting on
track?
Now, depending on where theyare, a book that I found
incredibly helpful as Bob Bufordis halftime, which talks about
transition, right from from onecareer to the second part of
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your life, what is that going tolook like? Are you going to be
intentional and how you craftand create that? I think the
working genius profile isincredibly helpful for
understanding what your areas ofgreatest contribution are. And I
think that's got to be part ofthe conversation. Because you
need to understand, hey, FYI, ifone of my areas of genius is
wonder, and I'm all aboutthinking about things that have
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never been and, and ideation andthinking about great new ideas,
you probably should not be anaccountant. Right? That's
probably not going to be whatfulfills, you know, maybe some
really crazy cool accountingthat I'm not aware of that they
could lean into. Fantastic. Butyou need to understand how
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you're wired, before you startplotting and planning your next
step. Otherwise, you could findyourself in a terrible mismatch.
Wow, that's awesome. So, Dr.William, how can people connect
with you so that they can learnmore and hopefully grow in that
loving leadership? Is that okay,if I call it that love,
(29:30):
absolutely.
Go for it? Absolutely. You cango to catalytic leadership.net.
That's the site, the hub of whatI do. You can find out more
about the coaching that I do.You can follow the podcast that
I just started a few months ago,where I interview different
catalytic leaders in theirfields, and share some of the
things that I've learned as I'vecoached leaders now for over 20
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years. And for your listeners,I'd love to offer also a free
copy of the book I publishedearlier this year if they go to
catalytic leadership book.com Ifthey can get a free copy of the
book, if they're willing to payshipping to help me get it tool
will put a copy in their hands.It captures a lot of the
principles that I've learnedcoaching leaders now for a
couple of decades, to helpleaders get better, I want to
(30:13):
put this into the hands of asmany leaders as I can so that,
you know whether I'm going tocoach them one on one or not,
they can benefit from so much ofwhat has been learned by the
leaders that I've worked withand from my own story.
Well, I think that's amazing.Everybody run out, get the book.
We need and here's the thing,you and I've talked about this
(30:35):
briefly. A lot of times, peoplewho write books, which is a lot
of my audience, don't realizethey're starting businesses.
When you start a business. Youare a leader. Yes. And you need
to learn to lead well, so goout, get the book. Dr. William,
thank you so much for appearingon somewhere in the middle of
(30:57):
Michele. It
has been such an honor. So I'veso enjoyed the conversation
well.
Doesn't show this month guys,you can reach me online at
Michele barard.com. That's M i ch e l e d, a AR ar d.com. You
can also find me on Facebook,Instagram and Tiktok as urban
(31:20):
book editor, feel free to sendin some topics you'd like us to
cover on the show. I'd love tohear from you. Make sure you
tune in to the show on June 16when my guest will be the
founder of getting black womenpaid teen zycus You can find us
once a month on Fridays at 5pmPacific 6pm Mountain 7pm Central
(31:43):
and 8pm Eastern time at thesummer in the middle
podcast.com. Let's continue theconversation. You guys be good.
stay mindful and remain prayerfor peace and blessing Joe
Happy Friday everyone. Welcometo somewhere in the middle with
Michele Barard. I'm your host,Michele Barard, founder and CEO
of Michelly broad LLC. And I'mreally happy to share this hour
with you where we examine allthose places where spirit needs
like in the joys and challengesthat may bring. You guys know I
like to start by thanking MissBeverly black and tribe family
(02:30):
channel for helping me createthe space for us. Tribe family
channel is home to an assortmentof thought provoking shows that
explore life, spirit, businessand culture, including the woman
at the well hosted by MissBeverly black herself. Somewhere
in the middle was born on TrappFamily channel. And though we
have grown onto our ownplatform, we are ever grateful
(02:51):
and loyal to our roots. Toparaphrase an African proverb,
we are here only because westand on the shoulders of those
who came before us. I want tothank my guests on April 21 2023
Show Jason Zehra, owner of BlueMoon estate sales, Rancho
Cucamonga, you can connect withJason on social media and at his
(03:13):
website. If you missed thatshow, make sure you listen to
the replay. You can find ourcomplete show archives,
including the April 21 show atthe summer in the middle
podcast.com. I also want toshout out Bruce George of the
geniuses common movement whichencourages all of us to embrace
our new genius and share it withthe world. This is an essential
(03:35):
message and we really need toshare it with the young people.
But it's not just for the kids,we adults sometimes need to be
reminded that the world needsour genius. Learn more about the
geniuses calm and movement atWWW dot genius is common.com.
Now this month's guest helpsleaders grow professionally and
(03:55):
personally so they can leadbetter. William AdAway is a
leadership coach for catalyticleadership LLC, a company he
founded to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
He has served in local churchministry for over 25 years. And
as currently the lead pastor ofsouthview community church, a
(04:17):
church in Herndon, Virginia nearWashington, DC, where he has
served since 2004. He holds aPhD in Old Testament with an
emphasis in biblical backgroundsin archaeology, and he loves to
read and speak about leadership,organizational change,
archeology, and building uppeople in teams. His newest book
(04:40):
is catalytic leadership, whichreleased in January 2022.
Originally from Birmingham,Alabama, William now lives in
Northern Virginia with hisbeautiful wife Charlotte and
their two daughters. So I wouldlike to welcome Dr. William
AdAway to somewhere in themiddle with Michelle bride,
William Thank you so much forbeing on the show with me.
(05:01):
Michelle, thank you so much forhaving me. It's an honor to be
here. Well,
I'm excited because you've got awealth of information that you
can share with the audience. Andyou have an interesting personal
journey as well. So you probablyknow already, I start my
interviews with to question. Ifyou're ready, I'll go ahead and
(05:22):
ask them absolutely far away.All right. So William AdAway.
Who are you in? How did youbecome who you are today?
It's a journey, that's for sure.I think I would define myself
with a couple of words. First,I'm a Christ follower, than my
faith is incredibly important tome. I am a husband. I'm a
(05:45):
father. I'm a pastor, and I'm acoach and a writer.
Wow. And how did you get to beall of those things? The first
thing you mentioned was a Christfollower. Was that just okay? I
was born and put in the church.And that's it down for life. Was
(06:05):
that it?
I did, I did grow up going tochurch. But it was not personal.
It was my family stayed notmine. Went to college, like so
many do. And that fell away. AndI met Jesus when I was 20 years
old. And at that point,everything began to change. And
it became my faith, not myparents, not anyone else's. And
(06:27):
from that point, for the lastnearly 30 years now, that's been
a journey, every day learning alittle bit more about what that
means. And leaning into that,hopefully, more often than not.
What does it mean for you like,so you're 20 years old? How did
you come to meet Christ at thatage? That's a time where most of
us are, I'm not gonna say mostof us, but a lot of us are, you
(06:51):
know, we had the club where
I was there. I was absolutelythere. You know, it was actually
one of my roommates at the time,I was renting a house with two
other guys to cut expenses. Andone of them was a strong
follower of Jesus. And he wouldask me questions from time to
time. And, you know, I grew upin church, I knew the right
(07:13):
answers. I knew what to tell himto get him off my back, so to
speak. And he he would listen.Okay. And then one day, he said
something that I'll neverforget, he asked me some
question that I have long sinceforgotten, and I gave him some
totally forgettable answer. Andhe looked at me and he said, You
know, I think you either need toget serious about actually
(07:35):
having faith, or quit pretendinglike you do.
Oh, oh, right. Interesting. Didyou take that?
Uh, well, at first I was, youknow, a little ticked, like,
really, like, that's a jerkthing to say, like, come on now.
But over time, I began to thinkabout that, and realize, you
(07:58):
know, what, he's right. Youknow, often it takes somebody
from outside of us to see whatwe don't see. It's hard to see
the whole picture when you're inthe frame. And that's where I
was, I was in the frame, and Icouldn't see what I couldn't
see. And what Dave did this guy,he from the outside, he saw
clearly, and said something tohelp me gain awareness of where
(08:21):
I really was. So where did thatlead you? Over time, it led me
to a faith of my own. But it wasa process, it was not a one and
done. It was not a magic moment,there was no Damascus moment, so
to speak, I took close to a yearreally have a lot of
conversations, a lot ofquestions, a lot of wrestling
and struggling with what thatmeant. What it meant, for me
(08:43):
going forward, I was working inthe business world, and you
know, had a very clear target ofwhere I wanted to go, what I
wanted to do was all aboutadvancement and promotions, and
you know, more of that greenstuff you can spend at the
store. And all of a sudden,things begin to shift. And
that's the time, it really tooktime for me to begin to value
(09:05):
things differently. Andunderstand that, that God maybe
had a different purpose for methan that. And that was a couple
of years earning.
So how did that shift yourperspective in in business?
Because you were in business youwere working? You know, in a
corporation, I'm assuming sincethe occupation,
yeah, that was back in the earlydays of cell phones, sales and,
(09:29):
you know, we had the brickphones and then this new flip
phone that, you know, would foldlike the Star Trek was was
actually, that's funny. The starTech had just come out while I
was working there, and they rana promotion. If you sold 10 of
them, they would give you onewith your name engraved on it.
And I thought, I want that. So Isold a lemon. Like I'm getting
(09:55):
that. And so funny. So fewpeople remember the start But
that was, that was a part of mystory right? Over time, though,
that lost the luster, you knowof what it had once meant. It
was all about the next thing andbigger, higher, faster. And
obviously, it became differentand my values and what was
(10:17):
important to me begin to shift.And I began to think more about,
what, what is it that I'm herefor? And how is it that God has
gifted me to serve other people?I don't think there's any such
thing as a wasted experience. Ithink God can use every
experience in our lives, eventhe ones that we think we wish
we hadn't had. What are we goingto use them for, though? Right?
(10:40):
Are we going to use them? Justfor us? Are the experiences in
our life just for us? Or arethey also for the benefit of
those around us? And so theseare the questions that I began
to wrestle with, what is it thatthe God wanted to do not just in
me, but through me.
So did that put you on your pathto becoming a pastor,
(11:02):
it was a very roundabout path. Iactually went to college,
initially, as a pharmacy, a prepharmacy major, because I had
worked in a pharmacy in highschool and thought that would be
a great way to invest in peopleand serve people got to organic
chemistry and decided that thisis not what I want to do for the
rest of my life, and quicklychanged the directions there.
(11:24):
And that's, that's the point atwhich I had dropped out and
said, I want to, I want to justwork for a while until I figure
out what I want to do. Andthat's the point at which I met
Jesus. And things began toshift. And I now had a different
direction, toward back toschool, and thought, I'll work
at a church because like, that'ssomething that I can do to
invest in people, I worked attwo different churches. And you
(11:47):
know, it was it was a decentexperience. The second one was
not a great experience for me.And I saw some of the the ugly
underside and a lot of ways ofwhat church can be. And I
remember coming home and tellingmy wife, I really would rather
do just about anything else thanwork in a church. And I took a
job for the last six months ofcollege, cleaning bathrooms
working on a janitorial staff,just so that I wouldn't have to
(12:09):
continue working at a churchwasn't at all
that was been a reallychallenging experience at that
particular church.
Well, you know, every church hasits own unique challenges. And a
lot of times it's a matter of amisfit between, you know,
somebody who has a differentview of what church could be and
shouldn't be. And that's what itwas, in this case, I had a
different perspective on why wewere there, that we're not here
(12:32):
just for us. You know, we'rehere for people who aren't here
yet, who's going to speak up forthe people who aren't here yet,
who's going to speak up for thepeople who won't say anything.
That's what I feel like God'scalled me to do. So I tell you
all that to say that when I wentto seminary, when I finished
college, we moved to seminary onTexas, I had no intention of
working at a church. Because Ihad said I'm done with that. My
(12:53):
intent was to get a doctorate toteach I thought I can I can pour
into people invest in peoplethat way I love to teach this
would be fun. And that was myintent. My I don't have a
traditional master's degree,Master divinity, monta Master of
Arts. Because my intent was togo and do a PhD, which I
eventually did. But it was whileI was there, working at a
(13:16):
church, but in the back office,right working in the tech
sector. And it was there that Iwent to it was invited to a
conference and went and heardsomebody described the church in
a way that I had never heard thechurch described, and painted a
picture of what the church couldbe. And it captivated me. And
here now 25 years later, I'mstill thinking about that. Still
(13:39):
thinking? And what if what if wecould really be the movement
that Jesus started? What if wecould really be the church? Not
the not the bad part? Not thestuff that's just people getting
messy, right? But the movementthat's about reaching people far
from God inviting them to comehome? What if what if we were
about that? What if we wereabout reconnecting people with
(14:02):
their Heavenly Father and withone another? What if we were
about what Jesus prayed forbeing one, just like He and the
Father of one.
So what does that look like toyou?
It boils down to what Jesus saidthe night before he was
crucified. He was talking to thedisciples and he said, This is
how people will know that you'remy follower. This is how, you
(14:25):
know they had they had unmadegrown up under the Mosaic Law
613 commands in the Law ofMoses. That's what they knew.
And Jesus said, A new command Igive you. They're like, really
another 130 We don't needanother with a new command.
Again, you said, Love oneanother. By this, all people
(14:49):
will know that you're myfollowers, if you love one
another. And this is what theApostle Paul would later call
the Law of Christ. This is thecommand of the New Covenant, not
the Old Covenant, the law ofMoses. That's not our covenant.
Our covenant is the law ofChrist, the one command. So
that's what that looks like.What does it look like to love
one another? What does it meanto, to love even if we disagree,
(15:12):
even if we don't think the sameor act the same or vote the
same, or? Yeah, love oneanother? What does that mean?
And Paul fleshes this out withso many of the one another
commands that we see in the NewTestament. These aren't
additions to the law of Christ.These are ways to understand it.
What does love one another looklike? Well, it looks like
forgiving one another. It lookslike encouraging one another. It
(15:33):
looks like praying for oneanother. He looks like bearing
one another's burdens. That'swhat it looks like. But at its
core, what does this look like?What is this picture of the
movement that Jesus started?
Love one another. Love is thehighest law. He said. I don't
I'm not a big voter of theBible. But I vaguely recall it
(15:54):
being something like it beingthe law above all other laws.
Yes,
absolutely. You know, Paul wroteabout this. And First
Corinthians 13, which we oftenread at weddings, which makes me
chuckle a little bit. Likefaith, hope and love about these
three, but the greatest of theseis love. highest of all,
exactly. Right. Well, becauselove with love, theoretically,
(16:16):
you're not going to bonk anybodyon the head and take their stuff
in theory. You know, you'regoing to be fair to people.
Yeah, you're going to treatpeople well with dignity and
respect. That's right, we'regoing to cooperate, we're going
to find a way to work together,even as you say, if we disagree,
we learn to listen more than wetalk. When we love. In marriage,
(16:39):
marriage becomes a mutualsubmission, not this dominion of
one over another. That's what itmeans to love one another. And
it impacts every part of ourlives. You can't wall off one
part and say, well, not there.Really. Because Jesus didn't
give any exception clauses. Lastyear was a pretty
simple law. I love one another.He didn't say love one another
(17:02):
at home, but not at work.
He didn't. And you know, as Iread that, in the original
language, you know what it meansin the original language? It
means love one another. That'swhat it means.
That's fabulous. So how doesthat inform you in business?
Because you are you do business?So how does that concept of love
(17:25):
at the core, inform the way thatyou coach the way that you do
business the way that you workwith people.
Now what I do these days isaccording to an invest in
leaders to help them get better.I agree with what Craig
Groeschel says that when aleader gets better, everybody
benefits the people that theylead on their team, their
(17:46):
company, their church, theirorganization, their spouse,
their kids, their clients, theircustomers, everybody benefits
just by a leader getting better.So that's where I pour my time
and energy, and I want to helpleaders get better, I coach
them, I equip them, I help themto get better at leadership, too
often, we throw leaders in andsay alright, so lead now, you
(18:06):
don't have any training, wedon't have any encouragement,
there's no coach to help them.And too many of us learn to lead
that way. And we found all ofthe ditches and all of the
potholes and all of the ways notto do something. I want to help
leaders avoid some of those. Andso what I do is help them to
intentionally grow in theirleadership in their influence,
(18:29):
but also intentionally grow as aperson beyond just what they do.
That's where it starts. Fromthere. It then extends down to
thinking about the people thatthey lead. How do you see people
as more than just a cog in themachine more than just what they
do, you begin to see them as anactual 3d human being. And you
know, what's at the core ofthat, you're learning how to
(18:51):
love one another. Don't tellanybody that that goes back to
Jesus.
I think that's so amazing thatyou can kind of pull all that
into kind of that business arenawhere in the United States at
least, I can't speak to otherplaces. But in the US, we tend
to want to compartmentalize ourlives. Oh, sure. Our faith is on
(19:15):
Sunday or whatever day of theweek, you deal with your faith,
you know, maybe Wednesday andSunday, maybe Saturday, whatever
it is. So, um, our home life is,you know, this piece before 8am
And after 7pm. Right, that kindof thing. And, and then work is
(19:35):
its own thing. So how do youfind that leaders take? What I
want to say is your guidance,your understanding and your
sharing on board, and how doesthat shift them in the way they
operate in their businesses intheir in their lives?
(19:57):
You know, Michelle, I think itbegins with understanding that
there is a myth that isperpetuated in our culture. And
it goes back to the ancientGreeks. The idea is that we can
compartmentalize our lives andwe can wall off certain parts
from certain other parts. Youknow, we're coming up on
Thanksgiving here in the US anda few weeks from now, as we as
we record this. And one of myfavorite parts about
(20:17):
Thanksgiving is the plates thatwe use, because they have these
little barriers between thedishes right through the main
kind of little wall, and thenyou have your side dish, because
I don't like my food to touch.I'm one of those people. I know,
it's all going to be togetherdown here. But up here, I want
to say for each flavor, right,and I love those plates. But too
many of us think our lives arelike those plates. And we have
(20:39):
these little walls that we canseparate. And this part is not
going to touch what happens overhere and, and what happens at
the office doesn't affect whathappens at home and vice versa.
And that's a cute myth. Thatidea of compartmentalization.
But it's just that it's a myth,that the fact is we are created
as unified people as one, everypart touches every other part.
(21:02):
And the idea that you can wallone part off, and it has no
influence on any other part isreally just silly. The only way
for that to happen is to have acomplete lack of integrity.
Integrity is where all thepieces touch and work together.
And that's what we strive for.And this is what I strive for
with my clients, I want to coachthem in such a way that there is
integrity in all parts of theirlife. So, yeah, we tend to
(21:25):
compartmentalize our faith, andwe compartmentalize our work,
and we compartmentalize ourhome, but the people that I lead
the team that I lead, I want toknow what's going on in
different parts of their life,because I want them to
understand I see them asindividual people, not just as
what they do, I want them tounderstand that I care about
what happens in home, I careabout what happens in their
life, you know, as I do that, asI begin to value them and see
(21:48):
them as people. What I found andwhat the people that I coach on
is that those employees, thoseteam members, they appreciate
that they appreciate being seenfor more than just what they do.
And they begin to lean in. Andthey bring more of themselves to
what they do. They lean in andthey work harder and they invest
(22:11):
more. And that's not themotivation behind why we do it.
We do it. Well, because we loveone another. But the fact of the
matter is, there's a verypragmatic reason why this
matters, and why the Americanenvironment and culture could
learn so much from thisprinciple. If we see people as
people, and we value them notjust for what they do, but for
(22:34):
who they are. And we invest inthem and pour into them and try
to help them to equip equip themto accomplish the dreams that
they have coaches what we havefor them to do. We see people
more like Jesus
does. Well in do you think thenthat people give more of
(22:55):
themselves when they're in thattype of environment? Because
they see the leader giving moreof themselves? I mean, is there
some correlations there?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Becausepeople are going to lead well,
they're not going to followwhere they're lead, right? And
if you don't like where peopleare going or how people are
acting, you have to ask yourselfas a leader the question Have I
(23:18):
led them to do that? How aboutlead them to be that way? Or is
this just what happens when Ihaven't LED? Well, and this is
the point of intentionality. Andthis is why intentionality is so
important. You don'taccidentally become a great
leader. Nobody in the history ofever has woken up one day and
(23:39):
said, Oh, wow. I'm a greatleader. I don't know how that
happened. I didn't mean for thatto happen. But here I am. It
didn't happen that way. You haveto be intentional about it. You
have to be purposeful in yourgrowth, and what you're
surrounding yourself with andwhat you're bringing into your
life, the inputs of your life.And you have to be intentional
(24:01):
in what you're doing as theleader pouring into those around
you helping them understand theyare valued far beyond just what
they do.
So what kinds of things do youfind are issues for your leaders
when they first come to you?
You know, it's this is this isone of the challenges of what I
do, there's not a cookie cutterapproach to it. I can't just
(24:24):
hand you 12 modules and say,Here you go, just watch these.
This will fix all your problems.So so much of what I do is very
customized around what eachleader is struggling with. And
I'm not sure I've ever had twothat were the same. Exactly.
There's some similar threadsthat run through them to be
sure. But each one is uniquebecause they're going to
(24:45):
struggle with with somethingthat's well inherent in their
story that comes from theirbackground and comes from who
they are. For instance, oneclient was was really wrestling
around the idea of what's nexthe has his wrapping up one Part
of his story, wrapping up in themilitary coming to the point of
retirement and that then he'sready for the next piece. But
(25:06):
what's next, there's 1015different directions he could
go, what now? He wants to takewhat's been invested in him and
use it for the benefit of otherpeople. But But how where, and
so we walked through thatjourney together. And that
looked different for him than itdid for another guy who is
coming to the end of a very longrun, right, moving into
retirement, but he wasn't doneyet. Right? What's the next
(25:29):
chapter gonna look like? Well,that was a whole different
ballgame. He was a he was a highpower C suite leader, moving
into retirement, but ready forthe next chapter, it was going
to look very, very different forhim than it did for the first
guy. Each one is unique, eachone is different. And what I
want to do is help them to leaninto their own personal story, I
want to lean into their ownwiring, I call it. But first,
(25:52):
you have to understand yourwiring. You have to discover it.
Each one of us is wireduniquely. You know, there are so
many great assessments and toolsthat are helpful here from the
Myers Briggs to the disk. Onethat I'm using these days with
teams is called the workinggenius from Patrick Lencioni.
He's table group, fantastic toolto help you understand what you
bring to the table. What is yourarea of passion, your area of
(26:16):
working genius? What are yourareas of working competency, you
can do them, but they're notyour favorite? And what are your
areas of working frustration,those areas that drain you and
if you have to do those thingslong term, your batteries are
going to be so low, you're notgoing to be any good to anybody.
I want to help people understandtheir wiring, I want to help
leaders understand that becausewhen they understand their
(26:38):
wiring, they can lean in totheir areas of genius. But not
just that, they can begin tounderstand how the people they
lead are wired, so they can helplift them up, and help them move
into a place where they'reoperating out of their areas of
genius to because that's what itreally means to lead well.
(26:58):
So it sounds like that wouldalso help them with building the
best possible team. Yeah,because if let's say you're a
genius is marketing and someoneelse's genius is the finance and
someone else in I'm using broadterm short, short, it gets more
specific than that. But you canthen say, Oh, we got gaps in
(27:20):
these areas, let's find peoplebeing want to build that role,
and they can live their bestlives.
Absolutely. That's what we want.And we want everybody to be
living the best version ofthemselves. We want them to be
designing that so that they gohome, well fulfilled, and they
don't dread coming back to work,that don't dread, like, gotta go
(27:43):
back there. You know, the Sundaynight blues, right? You gotta
gotta go back tomorrow. I don'twant that for them. I don't want
that for me. I don't want thatfor any of the leaders that I
work with.
That's awesome. So let's sayyou've got a leader. You're
transitioning from corporate?And they're like, Okay, what do
(28:04):
I do next? What are two or threethings that you would advise
them to do or books to read tohelp them start getting on
track?
Now, depending on where theyare, a book that I found
incredibly helpful as Bob Bufordis halftime, which talks about
transition, right from from onecareer to the second part of
(28:25):
your life, what is that going tolook like? Are you going to be
intentional and how you craftand create that? I think the
working genius profile isincredibly helpful for
understanding what your areas ofgreatest contribution are. And I
think that's got to be part ofthe conversation. Because you
need to understand, hey, FYI, ifone of my areas of genius is
wonder, and I'm all aboutthinking about things that have
(28:47):
never been and, and ideation andthinking about great new ideas,
you probably should not be anaccountant. Right? That's
probably not going to be whatfulfills, you know, maybe some
really crazy cool accountingthat I'm not aware of that they
could lean into. Fantastic. Butyou need to understand how
(29:07):
you're wired, before you startplotting and planning your next
step. Otherwise, you could findyourself in a terrible mismatch.
Wow, that's awesome. So, Dr.William, how can people connect
with you so that they can learnmore and hopefully grow in that
loving leadership? Is that okay,if I call it that love,
(29:30):
absolutely.
Go for it? Absolutely. You cango to catalytic leadership.net.
That's the site, the hub of whatI do. You can find out more
about the coaching that I do.You can follow the podcast that
I just started a few months ago,where I interview different
catalytic leaders in theirfields, and share some of the
things that I've learned as I'vecoached leaders now for over 20
(29:50):
years. And for your listeners,I'd love to offer also a free
copy of the book I publishedearlier this year if they go to
catalytic leadership book.com Ifthey can get a free copy of the
book, if they're willing to payshipping to help me get it tool
will put a copy in their hands.It captures a lot of the
principles that I've learnedcoaching leaders now for a
couple of decades, to helpleaders get better, I want to
(30:13):
put this into the hands of asmany leaders as I can so that,
you know whether I'm going tocoach them one on one or not,
they can benefit from so much ofwhat has been learned by the
leaders that I've worked withand from my own story.
Well, I think that's amazing.Everybody run out, get the book.
We need and here's the thing,you and I've talked about this
(30:35):
briefly. A lot of times, peoplewho write books, which is a lot
of my audience, don't realizethey're starting businesses.
When you start a business. Youare a leader. Yes. And you need
to learn to lead well, so goout, get the book. Dr. William,
thank you so much for appearingon somewhere in the middle of
(30:57):
Michele. It
has been such an honor. So I'veso enjoyed the conversation
well.
Doesn't show this month guys,you can reach me online at
Michele barard.com. That's M i ch e l e d, a AR ar d.com. You
can also find me on Facebook,Instagram and Tiktok as urban
(31:20):
book editor, feel free to sendin some topics you'd like us to
cover on the show. I'd love tohear from you. Make sure you
tune in to the show on June 16when my guest will be the
founder of getting black womenpaid teen zycus You can find us
once a month on Fridays at 5pmPacific 6pm Mountain 7pm Central
(31:43):
and 8pm Eastern time at thesummer in the middle
podcast.com. Let's continue theconversation. You guys be good.
stay mindful and remain prayerfor peace and blessing Joe
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