October 25, 2025 • 20 mins
The next episode of the Sounds of Film features an interview with award-winning filmmaker Cody Sheehy, director of The Last Dive, which will be featured at the Port Jefferson Documentary Film Series on Thursday, November 6 at 7 PM.
Sheehy’s stunning new documentary follows Terry Kennedy, a legendary diver and American veteran whose extraordinary friendship with a giant manta ray named Willy Wow transformed him from a man with a troubled past into an unlikely ocean conservationist. Through breathtaking underwater imagery and deeply personal storytelling, The Last Dive captures the beauty, mystery, and emotional depth of one man’s lifelong connection to the sea.
Cody Sheehy is an award-winning filmmaker and the founder of Rhumbline Media. He has spent decades living aboard a sailboat with his wife and son, and his work often explores humanity’s relationship with the natural world. His previous film, Make People Better, was an official selection of HotDocs and winner of DocVille. The Last Dive continues his tradition of telling intimate, character-driven stories that highlight courage, transformation, and the urgency of environmental preservation.
For over 35 years, Tom Needham’s The Sounds of Film has been America’s longest-running film and music program, broadcasting on WUSB and streaming worldwide. The show has featured interviews with distinguished guests including Alec Baldwin, Billy Joel, Dionne Warwick, Chuck D, and Rory Kennedy.
The Sounds of Film Podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Music.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, this is Tom Needham, and you're listening to the sounds
of film. Today we're speaking with
director Cody Sheehy, the filmmaker behind The Last Dive,
which will be featured at the Port Jefferson Documentary Film
Series on Thursday, November 6that 7:00 PM.
The film is stunning and it follows Terry Kennedy, a
(00:22):
legendary diver and an American veteran who's extraordinary
decades long friendship with a giant manta ray named Willy.
Wow transformed him from a man with a troubled past into an
unlikely ocean conservationist. Wow.
Cody, Thank you so much for joining us on The Sounds of
(00:42):
Film. I love this movie.
Yeah, well, good to meet you andI'm happy to be.
Here So how did you first meet Terry and why did you want to
make a film about him? Well, so, so my wife and I've
got a, a 3 1/2 year old kid too.And we, we actually live on a
sailboat down in Mexico for about 6 months a year.
So, and we've been doing that for the last 10 years.
(01:06):
And I think I've met Terry about10 years ago and we started
just, you know, kind of, we werejust anchored together out there
in a Bay and I'd see him go diving all the time.
And we became dive buddies and, and over the years, I started
hearing more and more stories about Willie.
And then one day he pulls out this box full of video footage
(01:26):
and we started watching it that night.
And there's just everything he did tell me was true.
Tell me a little bit about your decision to live on a boat all
those years. You know, it's interesting
because, I mean, I grew up in the mountains in Oregon, so I
didn't get into boating until college.
It was actually I, I just need a, a cheap place to live.
And someone told me, hey, just buy a sailboat.
(01:47):
And I did. And then I kind of, you know,
fell in love with it and starteddoing it.
Little adventures, you know, going out to Columbia Bar, which
is, you know, a tricky spot and going down the Oregon coast and
then the California coast. And I just got really hooked on
it, you know, and then in 2008 the housing crisis hit, but it
(02:08):
hit boats before it hit houses. And I saw this boat, this price,
as you know, the awesome 50 footpatch and the price just start
dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping.
And then I like snap that thing up and then spent, you know,
many years kind of fixing it up And, and I've been out for 15
years now. I don't have all my spend so.
It sounds incredible, but I I don't usually hear living in a
(02:31):
sailboat as like a financial decision in terms of it being
less expensive. I mean, yeah.
How is that the case? Or is it no longer the?
Case anymore well that is absolutely totally correct
observation. There's a lot of kind of voters
and that's that's what I love about it.
(02:51):
So my first vote I bought for $6000.
The vote I've got now is worth quite a bit.
And sometimes it's accurate nextto votes that are worth
millions, you know, or 10s of millions.
So there's, there's an awesome spread in there.
And that's one of the great things about like the sailing
community, honestly, is you're going to be rubbing elbows with
people from all around the world, rich, poor, all kinds of
(03:14):
political viewpoints, but none of it matters.
Like everybody just mixes together because you're out
there in this little floating tribe and the weather and
whatever, counting on each otherand that.
And everyone has a common passion for the ocean, so.
That's pretty cool. So I mean, I'd love to ask you
more about it, but let's get into your film.
(03:36):
Who's it's about Terry. Give us a little bit of an
introduction to Terry for those people who haven't seen the
movie yet. Yeah, Terry, you know, he's had
a colorful past. He was a Hell's Angel, a Vietnam
vet, really had kind of a got into some criminal activities
(03:56):
when he was younger and spent some time in prison.
But he left all of that failed down to the Baja.
And this is in the early 1980s at this point.
So Terry's an 80 year old man now and he is the sweetest,
kindest personally. He just loves to get people
(04:17):
diving and out there in the ocean.
That's his new passion. So he's just totally transformed
in the course of his life. And a big reason for that, I'd
say the main reason is that whenhe came down to Mexico and had a
lot to recover from, he met a giant manterex.
This animal is 22 feet across. And over the years, you know, he
(04:38):
developed this, this relationship with this animal
that lasted 19 years. And it just totally changed his
whole outlook on life. It's an amazing story.
Had you had any experiences likethat diving?
I mean, I've had a lot of amazing experiences in the
ocean, but I got to say I didn'tknow a lot about the giant
(04:59):
oceanic Pacific manta rays. And we decided to Terry not seen
Willie in 10 years, so we wantedto reunite him and for one last
dive. And that was going to be my
first time diving with him and Iwas completely blown away.
I had no idea what I was gettinginto.
These animals are they're incredible.
(05:19):
And I can't believe that we don't know more about them, but
they are intelligent, they're curious, they they seek out
human relationships and they're so smart and they're so big.
It's just being in the water with them is really an
experience. Even though you heard all of
these positive experiences that he had, did you have any fears
(05:42):
yourself going in there? I mean, I was diving with a lot
of really experienced divers. So, you know, I wanted to kind
of prove myself in some ways. And a lot of that for me had to
do with a lot of the sharks around there.
There's a lot of sharks out there at is Lasan Benedicto.
So the island we're diving at, you know, this remote island 250
(06:02):
miles off of Cabo, and it's got a lot of sea life still.
It's pristine and in many ways. And there's a lot of sharks.
And so we had to deal with those.
The manta rays I was never nervous about.
I just trust Terry. And when those things arrive, I
never felt any fear or anything.And the feeling that I had was
(06:22):
more of this deep sense of peace.
All sudden once they arrive, they just have your entire focus
and this deep sense of tranquility and calmness just
kind of fills you. And they are just totally
dominant on that whole thing. And everyone's just working into
them. And they come over and start
swooping around near you. And some of them stand off and
(06:43):
some of them come in a little closer and.
And then. Yeah, so, and and you know, do
you want me to tell a little story?
Yeah, absolutely. OK, so the first dive we are
looking for Willy and Terry's not seen Willy in a long time,
but he knew all the Mantas and we did find Chevy, another one
that he knew. And Chevy I don't think
(07:06):
recognized Terry on that first dive.
But when when Terry got the water, he knew that that was
Chevy. And so we went for another dive
later that afternoon and that same manta ray was there.
And this time, Terry was able toget up really close to it and
kind of put his head in between the right, right where the eyes
are of this manta ray and reallyget close to it.
(07:27):
And then all of a sudden, Chevy just stop swimming and boom and
just went and stopped, went vertical in the water, which is
what they do when they're kind of like really presenting
themselves to you as like kind of like a dog, like scratch my
belly sort of thing. Yeah, Yeah.
And it did that. And then Terry went to him and
then Chevy started doing loops all around them.
(07:48):
And to me, it was so evident that Chevy could remember Terry
after not seen him for 10 years.And then every dive after that,
I know no matter where we were around that island, after, you
know, half an hour or so, all ofa sudden Chevy would arrive and
then boom, he'd go right to Terry and they'd just start
playing again. It was really cool to see that.
This this story is amazing. I I feel like a lot of people
(08:11):
don't know that this kind of relationship ever existed.
Like you would have guessed thatlike this kind of thing would
have been well known, but but your film is gonna make this
story. It already has just just
something that people are talking about for a long, long
time. Describe to our listeners like
(08:32):
you. You kind of mentioned it, but
like just the size. Yeah.
And and and how he could ride them.
I I just couldn't. I couldn't even believe it.
Yeah, no, it's incredible. So they're huge animals.
So I mean, think like SUV sized Willie was 22 feet across.
So that's, you know, 3 people and Willie every day would come
(08:56):
up and slap a huge wing on the whole of Terry's sailboat.
Terry would put on scuba gear, jump in the water and then hop
on Willie's back. And then we go off and ride all
around down in the depths of theof Willie's world down there and
have all kinds of adventures. So I love the premise of the
movie The Last Dive. Tell me about the concept a
(09:20):
little bit and and what your hope was.
Well, I don't want to, you know,have a spoiler for the movie.
Yeah, no spoiler. Dodge just a little bit.
But, you know, Terry is 80 yearsold and it's difficult to sail
out to this island. So, you know, after, you know,
(09:40):
when he got into his 70s, he just wasn't able to do it
anymore. It's expensive and it's
physically challenging and, and all the rest.
So it takes two or three days tosail out there.
And this is where a lot of hurricanes come through, and the
anchorages out there are not good.
The diving's and tents, the currents are strong, A lot of
stuff going on out there. And so he hadn't seen Willie in
10 years. And so we wanted to, you know,
(10:02):
take him out there one last timeand reunite him with Willie.
And in many ways, this film has like connotations even beyond
the actual subject matter. I guess, you know, people get
old. They're no longer able to do the
things that they once were able to do.
Are you finding that this film is resonating with people just
(10:25):
in a lot of different ways? Yeah.
I mean, it's not a your normal just environmental film.
This is a film about a characterwho has, you know, a lot of
things going on, including the fact that he's reckoning with
his life. It's a story of redemption.
And now he's at the end of his life and he's reckoning with
what is the meaning of his life head to head.
(10:48):
It has been resonating that way.I mean, the AARP wrote a big
article on it just kind of demonstrating, you know, these
these kind of issues being in documentary for the first time.
And it's also finding a really strong home with veterans.
A lot of veterans understand sort of the power of the ocean
and this they call it blue therapy.
(11:09):
But seeing a veteran like Terry,he's not your typical
conservationist, and he's reaching new audiences that
you'd normally wouldn't ever click on.
Something about manta rays. So I'm a I'm an old English
teacher and I used to teach Old Man in the Sea.
I was wondering if you took a look at that book again, a lot,
(11:30):
a lot of symbolic stuff in this movie and a lot of themes I
think that overlap just thinkingabout it.
Yeah, and that book was set in the Baja, I believe.
So well, so tell me about the process of making the film.
I've probably read like a million articles about Steven
Spielberg talking about how making Jaws was like his hardest
(11:52):
film 'cause it's just impossibleto make a film on the water.
Was it tough at all? Yeah, it, it was tough,
especially like underwater, because the divers are always
being moved around by the currents.
You've got very limited time underwater 'cause you're, you
know, you're burning through your oxygen all the time and,
you know, we're trying to keep the crew out of the shots, you
(12:15):
know, And so all that was a big challenge and you can't
communicate very well. So so we did a lot of diving and
you know, the the rate of generating footage useful for
the film was low. That said, our underwater DP
Johnny Friday, I mean, he's a master and the footage is
beautiful. And you know, of course we won
(12:37):
best of photography at Tribeca and I think a largely in large
parts does underwater epic shotsof these giant manta rays with
divers next time when you get a sense of scale.
And so underwater was a challenge and then above water
we're all kinds of other challenges too.
Because we're on a boat, we havea limited amount of time to go
(12:58):
on this offshore expedition. We don't know if we're going to
have to have good weather. We don't know if Terry is going
to be able to dive very well. And we don't know if we're going
to find Willie or not. So there's these huge unknowns
stuck with that, and then you, it's a small boat, it's a
cramped space and it's moving all the time.
So now when you're in editing, getting all those shots to cut
(13:20):
together is a whole new layer ofof challenge for the editor is
the everyday horizons always moving and different things like
that. So it's not the easiest film.
I I could imagine I love obviously the underwater
footage. I also enjoy just the, the boat
footage, cooking breakfast and stuff like that.
(13:42):
The the outdoor scenery. It's just a stunning film to
look at, you know, both above and and underneath the water.
Tell me a little bit about the music, because like, like you
said, I, I don't want to get spoil the ending, but this film
has an emotional feel to it and,and part of it is visually part
(14:02):
of it is the story, but then also there's music and editing
that really kind of just ties things together in a very, very
emotional way. Yeah, we, I was very fortunate
to work with the composer Paul Leonard Morgan.
He, he's got a really interesting fast.
I mean, he composes for major movies, Hollywood movies.
(14:23):
He also composes for the like the video game industry.
So if anyone's ever played Cyberpunk 2077, that's Paul's
music on there. But but he does documentaries.
He did The Last Breath and then he also did the last breath of
movie that came out with Woody Harrelson recently.
So he's just got a wide range and he's extremely talented.
(14:44):
And I just remember going over to to his his studio and we sat
down at his his baby grand and he starts playing a couple tunes
and all of a sudden he played the theme for this movie.
And I'm like, that's in the sametime we go.
So that's it. We just, we just knew like, and
what it was is it's very simple,is very poignant.
(15:06):
And there's a missing note in there.
And that missing note somehow triggers this feeling of loss
and, and hope at the same time. And he just knew exactly how to
do that. How was it being that you had a
relationship with Terry to make a movie?
Sometimes it's good to be objective and outside of a
(15:27):
story, but sometimes it can givea filmmaker a little extra edge
knowing someone really well. Yeah, I think it's all of the
above. Every film I've ever made, it's
been based on trust. At the end of the day.
I mean, they you enter this relationship, you're going to go
on a journey with your subjects.They'll be a lot of
(15:48):
opportunities for them to like lose faith in you or for you to
feel like they're hiding or holding things back and from the
story. And so as a director at your
job, primarily to tell the best possible story for the audience,
and you got to step out of theserelationships that you build or
already have, in my case with Terry.
And I had to tell Terry, you know, not tell him.
(16:11):
We came to the same understanding that his life
story, although painful for him to relive in many ways, is so
powerful. And we'll move an audience and
make them emotionally connect tomanta rays, which is his true
love in a way that can really help the Mantas.
And so by him doing this one last thing, he he can leave his
(16:35):
story, can become a legacy that even helps Mantas further.
And I think once he understood the power that he could have by
doing that, I think he was willing to put himself on the
line fully. And, and I think it shows in the
film because there's there's some moments where you really
feel for him. Yeah, and as you mentioned, this
is just not an environmental film.
(16:56):
I I've seen a lot of those and alot of films about protecting
animals or marine life. I don't, I don't want to give
away the whole thing, but, but there's obviously a, a scene or
one might expect that there would be a scene where there's
fishermen and they're destroyingthe, the, the marine life there.
(17:20):
And I, I won't give it all away,but I've seen scenes like that
before, but none of them hit me emotionally the way it did when
I was watching your movie. And I, I was wondering, why do
you think that is? Why do you think the impact of
(17:40):
of some of those scenes are so powerful in your film?
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I agree withyou.
And even now, after seeing this movie hundreds of times, I still
feel it when I see that. Well, it's because we are seeing
it through Terry's eyes, you know, and, and it's, and Terry
(18:02):
is so horrified and mad by what's happening right in front
of them and helpless to do anything about it.
And you care so much for the animals at that point, you feel
like you know them all by name, too.
And it's. It's a powerful scene.
Yeah. So now this film is is going out
(18:24):
to the world. What do you hope that people
take away from seeing this film?Yeah, I mean, I, I hope that
they enjoy it. I mean, it's AI think it's a fun
ride, you know, it's a fun, entertaining film.
It takes you to a place on the planet that very few people are
gonna get a go and they're gonnainteract with with a whole new.
(18:47):
It's kind of like Avatar or something.
In a way. It's just.
I was saying that to someone. It's like, it's like Avatar too,
but all real, you know, So it's just total magical world.
And I think that's the primary thing is you're going to walk
away from that just feeling likeyou went to Never Neverland or
something. But also, you know, I, I hope
that people come to appreciate the way that I feel about Mantas
(19:11):
now, which is they are one of the most incredible animals on
the planet. And I've hoped that they're
around for my son. And also, you know, appreciation
for some of the sort of the healing power of the ocean and
the opportunities that it has for veterans and other people
that need a deep sense of peace and focus.
They're going to find it diving.And I think that's a kind of a
(19:32):
fun journey, too. Well Cody, your film The Last
Dive is playing at the Port Jefferson Documentary Film
series on Thursday, November 6that 7:00 PM.
Is there any place online that if people listening outside of
the area want to learn more about your movie or where it
might be screening can go? Yeah, I'd love to send them to
(19:54):
the last divefilm.com and they can learn all about the film.
They can find the Port Jeffersonscreening link there too.
There's a lot of stuff about impact and how they get
involved. Well, Cody, I'd love to talk to
you about some of your other work in the future, but
congratulations, this is an amazing movie, one of the one of
the best I've seen in a long time.
(20:15):
So good, very very powerful and I wish you the best with it.
Well, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure to be
here.
Hi, this is Tom Needham, and you're listening to the sounds
of film. Today we're speaking with
director Cody Sheehy, the filmmaker behind The Last Dive,
which will be featured at the Port Jefferson Documentary Film
Series on Thursday, November 6that 7:00 PM.
The film is stunning and it follows Terry Kennedy, a
(00:22):
legendary diver and an American veteran who's extraordinary
decades long friendship with a giant manta ray named Willy.
Wow transformed him from a man with a troubled past into an
unlikely ocean conservationist. Wow.
Cody, Thank you so much for joining us on The Sounds of
(00:42):
Film. I love this movie.
Yeah, well, good to meet you andI'm happy to be.
Here So how did you first meet Terry and why did you want to
make a film about him? Well, so, so my wife and I've
got a, a 3 1/2 year old kid too.And we, we actually live on a
sailboat down in Mexico for about 6 months a year.
So, and we've been doing that for the last 10 years.
(01:06):
And I think I've met Terry about10 years ago and we started
just, you know, kind of, we werejust anchored together out there
in a Bay and I'd see him go diving all the time.
And we became dive buddies and, and over the years, I started
hearing more and more stories about Willie.
And then one day he pulls out this box full of video footage
(01:26):
and we started watching it that night.
And there's just everything he did tell me was true.
Tell me a little bit about your decision to live on a boat all
those years. You know, it's interesting
because, I mean, I grew up in the mountains in Oregon, so I
didn't get into boating until college.
It was actually I, I just need a, a cheap place to live.
And someone told me, hey, just buy a sailboat.
(01:47):
And I did. And then I kind of, you know,
fell in love with it and starteddoing it.
Little adventures, you know, going out to Columbia Bar, which
is, you know, a tricky spot and going down the Oregon coast and
then the California coast. And I just got really hooked on
it, you know, and then in 2008 the housing crisis hit, but it
(02:08):
hit boats before it hit houses. And I saw this boat, this price,
as you know, the awesome 50 footpatch and the price just start
dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping.
And then I like snap that thing up and then spent, you know,
many years kind of fixing it up And, and I've been out for 15
years now. I don't have all my spend so.
It sounds incredible, but I I don't usually hear living in a
(02:31):
sailboat as like a financial decision in terms of it being
less expensive. I mean, yeah.
How is that the case? Or is it no longer the?
Case anymore well that is absolutely totally correct
observation. There's a lot of kind of voters
and that's that's what I love about it.
(02:51):
So my first vote I bought for $6000.
The vote I've got now is worth quite a bit.
And sometimes it's accurate nextto votes that are worth
millions, you know, or 10s of millions.
So there's, there's an awesome spread in there.
And that's one of the great things about like the sailing
community, honestly, is you're going to be rubbing elbows with
people from all around the world, rich, poor, all kinds of
(03:14):
political viewpoints, but none of it matters.
Like everybody just mixes together because you're out
there in this little floating tribe and the weather and
whatever, counting on each otherand that.
And everyone has a common passion for the ocean, so.
That's pretty cool. So I mean, I'd love to ask you
more about it, but let's get into your film.
(03:36):
Who's it's about Terry. Give us a little bit of an
introduction to Terry for those people who haven't seen the
movie yet. Yeah, Terry, you know, he's had
a colorful past. He was a Hell's Angel, a Vietnam
vet, really had kind of a got into some criminal activities
(03:56):
when he was younger and spent some time in prison.
But he left all of that failed down to the Baja.
And this is in the early 1980s at this point.
So Terry's an 80 year old man now and he is the sweetest,
kindest personally. He just loves to get people
(04:17):
diving and out there in the ocean.
That's his new passion. So he's just totally transformed
in the course of his life. And a big reason for that, I'd
say the main reason is that whenhe came down to Mexico and had a
lot to recover from, he met a giant manterex.
This animal is 22 feet across. And over the years, you know, he
(04:38):
developed this, this relationship with this animal
that lasted 19 years. And it just totally changed his
whole outlook on life. It's an amazing story.
Had you had any experiences likethat diving?
I mean, I've had a lot of amazing experiences in the
ocean, but I got to say I didn'tknow a lot about the giant
(04:59):
oceanic Pacific manta rays. And we decided to Terry not seen
Willie in 10 years, so we wantedto reunite him and for one last
dive. And that was going to be my
first time diving with him and Iwas completely blown away.
I had no idea what I was gettinginto.
These animals are they're incredible.
(05:19):
And I can't believe that we don't know more about them, but
they are intelligent, they're curious, they they seek out
human relationships and they're so smart and they're so big.
It's just being in the water with them is really an
experience. Even though you heard all of
these positive experiences that he had, did you have any fears
(05:42):
yourself going in there? I mean, I was diving with a lot
of really experienced divers. So, you know, I wanted to kind
of prove myself in some ways. And a lot of that for me had to
do with a lot of the sharks around there.
There's a lot of sharks out there at is Lasan Benedicto.
So the island we're diving at, you know, this remote island 250
(06:02):
miles off of Cabo, and it's got a lot of sea life still.
It's pristine and in many ways. And there's a lot of sharks.
And so we had to deal with those.
The manta rays I was never nervous about.
I just trust Terry. And when those things arrive, I
never felt any fear or anything.And the feeling that I had was
(06:22):
more of this deep sense of peace.
All sudden once they arrive, they just have your entire focus
and this deep sense of tranquility and calmness just
kind of fills you. And they are just totally
dominant on that whole thing. And everyone's just working into
them. And they come over and start
swooping around near you. And some of them stand off and
(06:43):
some of them come in a little closer and.
And then. Yeah, so, and and you know, do
you want me to tell a little story?
Yeah, absolutely. OK, so the first dive we are
looking for Willy and Terry's not seen Willy in a long time,
but he knew all the Mantas and we did find Chevy, another one
that he knew. And Chevy I don't think
(07:06):
recognized Terry on that first dive.
But when when Terry got the water, he knew that that was
Chevy. And so we went for another dive
later that afternoon and that same manta ray was there.
And this time, Terry was able toget up really close to it and
kind of put his head in between the right, right where the eyes
are of this manta ray and reallyget close to it.
(07:27):
And then all of a sudden, Chevy just stop swimming and boom and
just went and stopped, went vertical in the water, which is
what they do when they're kind of like really presenting
themselves to you as like kind of like a dog, like scratch my
belly sort of thing. Yeah, Yeah.
And it did that. And then Terry went to him and
then Chevy started doing loops all around them.
(07:48):
And to me, it was so evident that Chevy could remember Terry
after not seen him for 10 years.And then every dive after that,
I know no matter where we were around that island, after, you
know, half an hour or so, all ofa sudden Chevy would arrive and
then boom, he'd go right to Terry and they'd just start
playing again. It was really cool to see that.
This this story is amazing. I I feel like a lot of people
(08:11):
don't know that this kind of relationship ever existed.
Like you would have guessed thatlike this kind of thing would
have been well known, but but your film is gonna make this
story. It already has just just
something that people are talking about for a long, long
time. Describe to our listeners like
(08:32):
you. You kind of mentioned it, but
like just the size. Yeah.
And and and how he could ride them.
I I just couldn't. I couldn't even believe it.
Yeah, no, it's incredible. So they're huge animals.
So I mean, think like SUV sized Willie was 22 feet across.
So that's, you know, 3 people and Willie every day would come
(08:56):
up and slap a huge wing on the whole of Terry's sailboat.
Terry would put on scuba gear, jump in the water and then hop
on Willie's back. And then we go off and ride all
around down in the depths of theof Willie's world down there and
have all kinds of adventures. So I love the premise of the
movie The Last Dive. Tell me about the concept a
(09:20):
little bit and and what your hope was.
Well, I don't want to, you know,have a spoiler for the movie.
Yeah, no spoiler. Dodge just a little bit.
But, you know, Terry is 80 yearsold and it's difficult to sail
out to this island. So, you know, after, you know,
(09:40):
when he got into his 70s, he just wasn't able to do it
anymore. It's expensive and it's
physically challenging and, and all the rest.
So it takes two or three days tosail out there.
And this is where a lot of hurricanes come through, and the
anchorages out there are not good.
The diving's and tents, the currents are strong, A lot of
stuff going on out there. And so he hadn't seen Willie in
10 years. And so we wanted to, you know,
(10:02):
take him out there one last timeand reunite him with Willie.
And in many ways, this film has like connotations even beyond
the actual subject matter. I guess, you know, people get
old. They're no longer able to do the
things that they once were able to do.
Are you finding that this film is resonating with people just
(10:25):
in a lot of different ways? Yeah.
I mean, it's not a your normal just environmental film.
This is a film about a characterwho has, you know, a lot of
things going on, including the fact that he's reckoning with
his life. It's a story of redemption.
And now he's at the end of his life and he's reckoning with
what is the meaning of his life head to head.
(10:48):
It has been resonating that way.I mean, the AARP wrote a big
article on it just kind of demonstrating, you know, these
these kind of issues being in documentary for the first time.
And it's also finding a really strong home with veterans.
A lot of veterans understand sort of the power of the ocean
and this they call it blue therapy.
(11:09):
But seeing a veteran like Terry,he's not your typical
conservationist, and he's reaching new audiences that
you'd normally wouldn't ever click on.
Something about manta rays. So I'm a I'm an old English
teacher and I used to teach Old Man in the Sea.
I was wondering if you took a look at that book again, a lot,
(11:30):
a lot of symbolic stuff in this movie and a lot of themes I
think that overlap just thinkingabout it.
Yeah, and that book was set in the Baja, I believe.
So well, so tell me about the process of making the film.
I've probably read like a million articles about Steven
Spielberg talking about how making Jaws was like his hardest
(11:52):
film 'cause it's just impossibleto make a film on the water.
Was it tough at all? Yeah, it, it was tough,
especially like underwater, because the divers are always
being moved around by the currents.
You've got very limited time underwater 'cause you're, you
know, you're burning through your oxygen all the time and,
you know, we're trying to keep the crew out of the shots, you
(12:15):
know, And so all that was a big challenge and you can't
communicate very well. So so we did a lot of diving and
you know, the the rate of generating footage useful for
the film was low. That said, our underwater DP
Johnny Friday, I mean, he's a master and the footage is
beautiful. And you know, of course we won
(12:37):
best of photography at Tribeca and I think a largely in large
parts does underwater epic shotsof these giant manta rays with
divers next time when you get a sense of scale.
And so underwater was a challenge and then above water
we're all kinds of other challenges too.
Because we're on a boat, we havea limited amount of time to go
(12:58):
on this offshore expedition. We don't know if we're going to
have to have good weather. We don't know if Terry is going
to be able to dive very well. And we don't know if we're going
to find Willie or not. So there's these huge unknowns
stuck with that, and then you, it's a small boat, it's a
cramped space and it's moving all the time.
So now when you're in editing, getting all those shots to cut
(13:20):
together is a whole new layer ofof challenge for the editor is
the everyday horizons always moving and different things like
that. So it's not the easiest film.
I I could imagine I love obviously the underwater
footage. I also enjoy just the, the boat
footage, cooking breakfast and stuff like that.
(13:42):
The the outdoor scenery. It's just a stunning film to
look at, you know, both above and and underneath the water.
Tell me a little bit about the music, because like, like you
said, I, I don't want to get spoil the ending, but this film
has an emotional feel to it and,and part of it is visually part
(14:02):
of it is the story, but then also there's music and editing
that really kind of just ties things together in a very, very
emotional way. Yeah, we, I was very fortunate
to work with the composer Paul Leonard Morgan.
He, he's got a really interesting fast.
I mean, he composes for major movies, Hollywood movies.
(14:23):
He also composes for the like the video game industry.
So if anyone's ever played Cyberpunk 2077, that's Paul's
music on there. But but he does documentaries.
He did The Last Breath and then he also did the last breath of
movie that came out with Woody Harrelson recently.
So he's just got a wide range and he's extremely talented.
(14:44):
And I just remember going over to to his his studio and we sat
down at his his baby grand and he starts playing a couple tunes
and all of a sudden he played the theme for this movie.
And I'm like, that's in the sametime we go.
So that's it. We just, we just knew like, and
what it was is it's very simple,is very poignant.
(15:06):
And there's a missing note in there.
And that missing note somehow triggers this feeling of loss
and, and hope at the same time. And he just knew exactly how to
do that. How was it being that you had a
relationship with Terry to make a movie?
Sometimes it's good to be objective and outside of a
(15:27):
story, but sometimes it can givea filmmaker a little extra edge
knowing someone really well. Yeah, I think it's all of the
above. Every film I've ever made, it's
been based on trust. At the end of the day.
I mean, they you enter this relationship, you're going to go
on a journey with your subjects.They'll be a lot of
(15:48):
opportunities for them to like lose faith in you or for you to
feel like they're hiding or holding things back and from the
story. And so as a director at your
job, primarily to tell the best possible story for the audience,
and you got to step out of theserelationships that you build or
already have, in my case with Terry.
And I had to tell Terry, you know, not tell him.
(16:11):
We came to the same understanding that his life
story, although painful for him to relive in many ways, is so
powerful. And we'll move an audience and
make them emotionally connect tomanta rays, which is his true
love in a way that can really help the Mantas.
And so by him doing this one last thing, he he can leave his
(16:35):
story, can become a legacy that even helps Mantas further.
And I think once he understood the power that he could have by
doing that, I think he was willing to put himself on the
line fully. And, and I think it shows in the
film because there's there's some moments where you really
feel for him. Yeah, and as you mentioned, this
is just not an environmental film.
(16:56):
I I've seen a lot of those and alot of films about protecting
animals or marine life. I don't, I don't want to give
away the whole thing, but, but there's obviously a, a scene or
one might expect that there would be a scene where there's
fishermen and they're destroyingthe, the, the marine life there.
(17:20):
And I, I won't give it all away,but I've seen scenes like that
before, but none of them hit me emotionally the way it did when
I was watching your movie. And I, I was wondering, why do
you think that is? Why do you think the impact of
(17:40):
of some of those scenes are so powerful in your film?
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I agree withyou.
And even now, after seeing this movie hundreds of times, I still
feel it when I see that. Well, it's because we are seeing
it through Terry's eyes, you know, and, and it's, and Terry
(18:02):
is so horrified and mad by what's happening right in front
of them and helpless to do anything about it.
And you care so much for the animals at that point, you feel
like you know them all by name, too.
And it's. It's a powerful scene.
Yeah. So now this film is is going out
(18:24):
to the world. What do you hope that people
take away from seeing this film?Yeah, I mean, I, I hope that
they enjoy it. I mean, it's AI think it's a fun
ride, you know, it's a fun, entertaining film.
It takes you to a place on the planet that very few people are
gonna get a go and they're gonnainteract with with a whole new.
(18:47):
It's kind of like Avatar or something.
In a way. It's just.
I was saying that to someone. It's like, it's like Avatar too,
but all real, you know, So it's just total magical world.
And I think that's the primary thing is you're going to walk
away from that just feeling likeyou went to Never Neverland or
something. But also, you know, I, I hope
that people come to appreciate the way that I feel about Mantas
(19:11):
now, which is they are one of the most incredible animals on
the planet. And I've hoped that they're
around for my son. And also, you know, appreciation
for some of the sort of the healing power of the ocean and
the opportunities that it has for veterans and other people
that need a deep sense of peace and focus.
They're going to find it diving.And I think that's a kind of a
(19:32):
fun journey, too. Well Cody, your film The Last
Dive is playing at the Port Jefferson Documentary Film
series on Thursday, November 6that 7:00 PM.
Is there any place online that if people listening outside of
the area want to learn more about your movie or where it
might be screening can go? Yeah, I'd love to send them to
(19:54):
the last divefilm.com and they can learn all about the film.
They can find the Port Jeffersonscreening link there too.
There's a lot of stuff about impact and how they get
involved. Well, Cody, I'd love to talk to
you about some of your other work in the future, but
congratulations, this is an amazing movie, one of the one of
the best I've seen in a long time.
(20:15):
So good, very very powerful and I wish you the best with it.
Well, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure to be
here.
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