September 3, 2025 • 44 mins
Have you ever felt like grief should have an expiration date?
In this heartfelt conversation with grief educator and TEDx coach Teri Kingston, we explore the messy, tender, and very human journey of loss. From anticipatory grief to sudden loss, Teri opens up about her own story and shares practical insights on how to support yourself and others without falling into the trap of “shoulding.” Together, we talk about what to say (and not say), why workplaces need grief literacy, and how to find purpose in the middle of pain.
You might want to listen if:
- You have ever wondered why you still miss someone years later and feel like you “should” be over it
- You are supporting a loved one who is grieving and do not know what to say
- You have experienced anticipatory grief while watching someone you love decline
- You have felt invisible or unsupported in the workplace while grieving
- You want to know when your story is ready to be shared and when it still needs a softer container
About Our Guest:
Teri Kingston works with business owners, executives and leaders who want to magnetize their message so they can maximize their impact each time they speak.
In her role as a caregiver advocate and widow, Teri shares stories of courage and compassion to help caregivers understand their role and cope, especially when the end of their caregiver journey is in sight. She is a sought after TEDx coach, speaker and author.
When she isn't coaching speakers or delivering talks of her own, she eats too much dark chocolate as she sits and soaks in the sea air of Saint Andrews, NB.
Stay in Touch with Teri:
- Connect with her on Linkedin
- Get the Book! Get Ready for Ted When Ted is Ready for you 🔴
FIND OUT MORE!
- Apply for FREE Coaching with Jenn
- Join the DANCE CIRCLE - Get updates on Jenn's debut book "Dance of Attachment"
- Join our FREE Community! Speak Honest Facebook Group 🧡
- Become a Relationship Reboot Member and access all you need to become secure.
- Schedule your Free 30 min Attachment Assessment with Jenn Today!
- Watch Jenn on the 🔴 TEDx Stage!
- Download your free Workbook: Dance of Attachment
- Visit www.speak-honest.com to learn more
- Follow Jenn on Instagram: @speak_honest
- Like the episode? Please write a review, your words help others find us!
DISCLAIMER: Speak Honest podcast content is informational, not professional or medical advice. Jenn is an ICF relationship coach, not a licensed therapist. Consult health ...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Speak Honest.
I am your host and certifiedrelationship coach, jennifer
Noble.
It has been my passion for overa decade to help women like you
heal what's been holding youback from having the
relationships you deserve.
Are you struggling with arelationship where you can't
seem to voice your emotions,needs and boundaries without
(00:26):
having it blow up in your face?
Then you have found the rightpodcast, my friend.
Get ready for practical tips,empowering truths and honest
conversations.
Now let's dive in.
Hello everyone and welcome backto another episode of Speak
Honest.
I am Jen Noble, your go-torelationship coach, and on
today's podcast I'm so excitedto have a guest on with us.
(00:47):
I have my good friend, terryKingston, on to talk about all
the different types of things.
So Terry is actually acaregiver, advocate and widow.
She shares stories of courageand compassion to help
caregivers understand their roleand cope, especially when the
end of their caregiver journeyis in sight.
So she is a grief educator andit's so powerful to have her on
(01:10):
the show.
But in addition to a griefeducator, she's also a
sought-after TEDx coach.
It's actually how I know her.
She is an award-winning speaker, a best-selling author, and she
is just a fantastic human allaround.
She has a fantastic TEDx talkif you want to go check it out
about grief and about herhusband, and it is so powerful.
I highly recommend it.
But that is actually how I gotto know Terry.
(01:31):
She came into one of myToastmasters meetings a couple
years ago to talk about TED andwhat we can do to get ready for
it, and I started getting toknow her a little bit more.
And then I was following her onLinkedIn, which I highly
recommend.
Go and follow Terry Kingston onLinkedIn.
It's where she gives all of hergreat tips.
And the next thing I know I'mlooking up her book.
She has a book called Get Readyfor Ted when Ted is Ready for
(01:52):
you, and I noticed the publisherand so I reach out to the
publisher and they like what Ido.
And next thing you know, I'msigned up with the publisher and
so I get to write a book.
As a lot of you know, I amcurrently writing Dance of
Attachment and I am working withLucky Book Publishing.
Shout out to Sammy and Samar,hello, and all my beautiful
community over there.
I love you guys so much.
My Monday mornings are so muchbetter now because I get to
(02:14):
spend it with all of you, butthat is beside the point.
So I'm writing Dance ofAttachment, as a lot of you know
.
If you want to join the dancecircle, if you want to be a part
of the early release of thebook, then just scroll on down
to the show notes and I'll add alink down there.
You can be a part of the dancecircle, join us over there.
You get maybe an early copy ofthe book.
You get to be a part of thelaunch.
You get to maybe read a littlebit before it gets out there.
(02:36):
If you want to be a part ofthat, let me know.
And this book I'm overwhelmedwith emotion thinking about it.
Never thought I would everwrite a book.
Yet here we are and I'mactually currently struggling
with a lot of writer's block.
I'm actually working with acoach right now, a somatic coach
to kind of work through that.
What's going on with my body?
How come every time I sit down,my whole body wants to shut
down or I want to fall asleep?
(02:57):
And this is what this work isall about.
It's about getting curious, notjudging, not shaming, not
telling myself oh, why don't youjust do it?
You're such a waste of spaceall this stuff.
It's just about being able towork through it, and in my
conversation with Terry, you'regoing to hear what we talk about
a lot on.
There is not shooting ourselves, and I was thinking about that
a lot when I am struggling towrite my book right now, and I
(03:18):
shouldn't shoot on myself.
I should be writing.
I should have it done by now.
I should have had it finished.
I told my publisher I'd have itfinished by June.
It's not.
I should be speaking on morestages to promote it and I'm
just so tired I can't.
All of that really resonatedwith me and with where I'm going
in my life right now.
So, as you're listening to thisconversation with Terry, I just
(03:40):
want you to think about where inyour life are you grieving?
This doesn't necessarily haveto be about death, although we
do mainly talk about the passingof her husband.
At the same time, this could beabout divorce, this could be
about moving away, this could beabout changing careers, just
going and transitioning to adifferent part of life.
It doesn't matter.
Grief is heavy and grief iseverywhere.
(04:01):
So, even if you've never lostanyone, if you have not had to
deal with the death of a lovedone, I want you to listen in on
this conversation with Terry andfigure out where can you share
your story, where can you findyour purpose, where can you
utilize this grief, this pain,this feeling in your life and
use it for your best self, useit for your good.
(04:22):
Be able to figure out a way ofsaying, okay, I'm going to
channel this into this area here.
So I hope you enjoy myconversation with Terri.
Hello everyone and welcome back.
I'm so excited to get to talkwith Terri Kingston today.
Terri Kingston is someone thatI consider a friend, a colleague
(04:42):
, someone that I've kind oftraveled along this journey with
and she's kind of been on myside there.
She is a TEDx speaker, anaward-winning speaker, a TEDx
coach, but more importantly tome right now, because what I
want to talk about, is she is agrief educator and this is such
an honor to get to have her onthe podcast today to be able to
talk about that.
But I actually met Terry when Iwas giving my own TEDx talk
(05:05):
about attachment styles and shecame into my Toastmasters
meeting, got to know us, helpedus so much.
We actually.
I have her book here.
That is one of the very firstbooks I read on really how to
give a TEDx talk, which is GetReady for TED when TED is ready
for you.
It's so nice to have you on theshow, terry.
Go ahead and say hi, introduceyourself.
Anything else, you on the show,terry Go ahead and say hi,
(05:25):
introduce yourself, anythingelse.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Thank you, jen.
Yeah, it's wonderful to be here.
I remember dropping in on thatToastmaster meeting and getting
to meet all of you that werepreparing for your TEDx talk.
But anytime you drop into aclub like that, there's always
one or two people that stand outwith their readiness or their
eagerness or just theirconnection with their own
content, and that's what you didfor me, and I watched your talk
(05:48):
later and I thought, yeah, shenailed that.
She nailed that.
She nailed that.
And I was just so excited foryou that you got the opportunity
and you did it so well, socongratulations.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Thank you so much, terry, and it was such a divine
thing to get to have you be apart of that community and to
get to know you, because I, whenI read your book, I started
kind of getting interested of,like, this is such a well
written book I mean, look, it'snot that big, it was such an
easy read.
It helped me so much.
And I looked and there was thislittle tiny thing that said
lucky book publishing and I waslike that's interesting.
(06:20):
I'm going to reach out to Terryand find out a little bit more
about this.
And that is how I ended upsigning up with Lucky Book
Publishing myself and, as mylisteners know, I will be
finishing up my book soon,hopefully with a launch this
fall, some sort of eventhappening in LA with some of our
other authors.
And it has been an amazingcommunity to be a part of do you
just want to talk a little bitabout Lucky Book Publishing real
(06:41):
quick, terry Well as one of theco-founders said yesterday, I'm
one of the original old girls.
You are, you're an OG, like youreally are, and I really am an
OG.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I do remember getting a cheeky little note from
Samantha not long after Istarted and she mentioned
something like you're reallygood for your age and I kind of
laughed at her and I said youmay want to check your ageism
bias there.
You know, but I have never feltanywhere near the age I am and
usually I haven't looked ateither.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
No, not at all, but.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I do have to tell you that, and we will get into this
a little bit as the talk goeson today Grief ages you beyond
what you can even imagine andthere's just so many components
to the anticipatory griefjourney when I was a caregiver
for my now late husband when hewas very ill.
(07:36):
When you know what's coming andyou don't want to face it,
that's a huge part.
So anticipatory grief is a bigpart of what I'll be talking
about more in the future.
But dealing with losing yoursecond chance, your golden years
, gentlemen, and all of thatpossible future of what I
(07:57):
thought I'd be living at thissenior age of mine, that's just
simply not there anymore.
So a huge part of the grievingprocess is coming to terms with
the future I have, and thepresent that I have is nothing
like I imagined it to be when wefirst married.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, Thank you for sharing that, terry.
Can we back up a little bit andcan you tell my listeners a
little bit of your story, howlong you were married when your
husband passed?
All of that to kind of set thegroundwork.
And then I would love to touchmore on this anticipatory grief
and what grieving has been likefor you afterwards.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Absolutely so.
Funnily enough, because wementioned Toastmasters already,
I met Harry in my first year ofToastmasters and I think his
32nd or something or 39th he'dbeen in it forever in a contest
at the district level.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I didn't know this.
That's adorable.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I had won at club area division and I was at
district.
I hadn't even been aToastmaster for a year and I'm
on the district stage for theInternational Speech Contest,
which is our highest level ofspeaking, and the Evaluation
Contest the next day.
So I met Harry in the briefingfor the Evaluation Contest.
He'd heard me speak the daybefore and he came up to me and
(09:17):
this man was tall, handsome,very charismatic, very gentle
and had a tendency to seepotential in someone and believe
in you more than you believedin yourself at the time and then
help you rise to the level ofhis beliefs in you.
And so he came up to me at thebriefing and he said you did
(09:39):
really well yesterday.
You're obviously new at this.
You have a lot of raw naturaltalent, but you really need some
coaching.
Can I coach you?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
He did yeah, oh and wait.
When was this?
Like what year, Like how manyyears ago?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That was 2003,.
In the spring of 2003, at theconference in Pointe Claire,
Montreal.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Well, he just came right out and did that.
I love that so much.
He did.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now, mind you, we were friends for a couple of
years and I joined an advancedclub he'd started, he mentored
and coached me for two or threeyears before he took me out for
dinner one day and he said thisis what I see happening next.
What do you think?
And it was basically anengagement proposal and by then
I'd really gotten to like andadmire and really learned from
(10:25):
how he coached other people.
He mentored so many policeofficers in the Ottawa Police
Force, helped them withpromotions.
He just was a huge part of thecommunity and watching him, his
heart for community service, hisheart for Toastmasters was huge
and yeah, and so that's how wemet and Toastmasters was kind of
(10:47):
our thing, which is a goodthing, because he went on to be
part of the district executive,which was extremely busy, and at
his side I must have visitedover two, three hundred clubs in
you know, five or six years.
I tell people he exposed me tomore Toastmaster speaking than I
would have ever had theopportunity had I just been
(11:08):
myself bobbing along theToastmaster, current and so many
, many clubs, many differentstyles of speakers, evaluated by
everybody, but mostly by him inthe car on the way home after a
meeting.
Honestly, that's where reallove comes in, because you have
to listen and you have to sayyes, dear, but you also have to
(11:31):
take it on board, because healways knew what he was talking
about.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That just sounds be able to take that kind of
feedback, that kind of, you know, constructive criticism, or the
evaluation as we would say inToastmasters.
I find I see you talking aboutit and this beautiful, secure
relationship that you have withhim.
To be able to actually hearthat for someone means you trust
them, you feel safe with them,you love them, and that part is
so incredibly important.
(11:54):
So tell me a little bit morenow.
When did you find out that heonly had so much longer?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, there were different things that were
happening.
He wasn't all that healthy whenwe met, but neither of us knew
it.
There were different incidenceshe started having high blood
pressure and nosebleeds, andthen he had kidney stones.
And then there was somethingelse and something else.
But we were taking Thanksgivingdinner to my father, I think a
year or two after my mom haddied and Harry had been.
(12:26):
He loved to cook, so he'd beenin the kitchen all day cooking
the turkey, standing on his feet, and when he went to carry the
turkey out to the car, he justhe looked at me and he said I
just don't feel right, Like Idon't feel well at all.
We got to my dad's house, wewalked in, I put the turkey in
the kitchen and my dad came outand he said there's something
(12:46):
wrong with Harry, he doesn'tlook right.
And so, fortunately, he allowedme to make an appointment to
see a family doctor the next day.
This is very rare.
This family doctor understoodhis symptoms, knew what was
potentially happening and got usan appointment at the Ottawa
Heart Institute within a fewdays.
(13:07):
This is one of the best heartclinics in all of Canada, but
they also have a special branchcalled the Pulmonary Arterial
Hypertension Clinic.
That's what it turned out hehad.
Most people go undiagnosed foryears because doctors think it's
asthma or bronchitis ordifferent heart things.
They don't understand thatthere are specific symptoms that
(13:30):
show up when the pulmonaryarteries which are the arteries
in the right side of the heart,not the left, which is usually
where people have heart issuesbut they're clogged and they
can't get enough oxygen intopeople's bodies clogged and they
can't get enough oxygen intopeople's bodies.
And so he would fall asleepanytime.
He sat down because he wasconstantly exhausted, he
(13:51):
couldn't catch his breath.
We would go for walks across tothe river in front of where we
lived and he would have to sitdown and he just would say, oh,
I just want to watch the ducks,and he would not let me know.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Oh yeah, finding like kind of excuses to make you
feel comfortable and safethroughout this.
So after he was diagnosed,about how much longer did you
have to be able to be with him?
Did you do it?
You mentioned anticipatorygrief.
I'm assuming hearing that word.
It kind of means you knowsomebody is nearing the end of
their life.
This could be the case formaybe people as well who have
(14:24):
loved ones with cancer.
Something like this Is thatright, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And when we got the diagnosis the doctors were
really clear.
They said we don't go on Google, don't look up the symptoms.
You'll read all sorts of stuffthat just aren't true.
But it's a very aggressive,incurable disease that he had,
and so it was rare, aggressiveand incurable those were the
words that kind of stuck in myhead.
Three to five years was theaverage prognosis.
(14:51):
They put them on very strongdrug therapy, which is almost
like continuous chemotherapy.
It's actually really horribleand some patients do well for
way, way, way longer.
But he had some other issuesthat were already showing up and
so for him this was kind of thewinding down.
He was a hunter, a fisher, heloved being outdoors, he was
(15:15):
strong, he was vibrant, and thenthis disease got hold of him.
We did well for the first threeyears.
We continued.
He was district officer duringthose years.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Oh, so he's still working or doing his thing, and
all of that stuff is still going.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Okay, oh yeah, and then eventually the drug
therapies they start stackingthem up and then eventually the
disease just keeps overcomingthe therapies.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Can I ask you, terry, because my heart kind of
started like feeling somethingright now as I was talking and
I'm just thinking can you talkabout what it must have felt
like in those three years to seethe love of your life going
about, doing his life likenormal, doing all these things?
But you know this is not goingto last.
Like you said, you're notgetting your golden years with
this man, this love of your life.
(15:59):
How does that change you?
What did you do differently?
Gained 50 pounds.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Go on.
That's a huge part of it.
Well, the first couple of yearswe both just you know, we're
both speakers.
So he became a member of theboard for the Pulmonary
Hypertension Association ofCanada.
I became an advocate so wethrew ourselves into making sure
parliament, making sure medicalsystems, knew what we needed to
get drugs approved.
We were very active.
(16:31):
I helped start a support groupfor the Ottawa community, which
is still one of the strongestand biggest in the country of
patients because the patientswere always well taken care of
and caregivers, because I feltthe caregivers had an unheard
voice that needed to besupported and loved and carried
through so we could carry whatcan't be carried.
And so I've spoken at theirconferences.
I actually helped them developa tool to help caregivers, you
(16:54):
know map their wellnessthroughout different stages of
this anticipatory grief journeyand just general awareness.
We have a great support groupon Facebook that I'm still part
of, even though it tears myheart out sometimes to see other
people that I've come to knowand love going down that slope
where the symptoms are gettingworse and the drugs are no
(17:15):
longer coping.
So one of my ways of coping youcan't see my bookshelf, but I
have a bookshelf that's about 12books long of anticipatory
grief.
How do you deal with death whenyou know it's coming?
How do you face what can't befaced?
I read a lot.
I'm not a support group personother than the one I helped
(17:35):
start, but I read a lot.
I took a lot of webinars aboutunderstanding end of life and I
wrote a TEDx talk.
That's where that talk camefrom was me trying to cope with
it?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, it sounds like you really kind of put your
energy into doing stuff, which Ithink is just so beautiful,
like you fought for legislation.
You kept working.
You didn't kind of just stop.
You guys didn't just stop yourlives.
You didn't just grieve theentire time.
There was grief that washappening whilst kind of making
something out of this.
And you're right, your TEDxtalk is one of the most powerful
(18:08):
TEDx talks I've watched in along time, like it was just
incredibly special.
So I a bit of my personal story.
I lost my dad back in 2014 witha heart attack, what they call
the widow baker.
So it was.
It's the opposite ofanticipatory grief.
It was getting the phone calland not completely just being
like you're making a joke, right, like I don't even.
(18:29):
I didn't even get to saygoodbye.
So my mother she was what?
60 at the time and my dad hadjust turned 64.
And so she did the same thing.
She is starting that secondstage of her life, not expecting
this without the love of herlife, you know, going through
all of this and she's just lost,just completely lost.
And I actually sent her yourTEDx talk and I remember it made
(18:51):
her cry a lot, because havingsomeone there to kind of
understand this process.
It's you just when you're in it, and would you agree with this
one?
And maybe again, anticipatorygrief is different than sudden
grief, but sometimes you justfeel alone.
What would you say to thosewomen out there Maybe someone's
listening right now.
They've lost their loved one,they've lost the love of their
life and she just feels so alone.
(19:12):
What would you say to that?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
There's almost no words that can help anybody make
it feel better, because nowords can.
When I moved here this pastsummer, I went through or three
summers ago, when I left Ottawa,I went through a stack of
sympathy cards from Harry'sfuneral and I was rereading them
all.
I didn't bring them with me, Ilet them all go, but I was
(19:34):
rereading them all and realizingthat, no matter what people
said at the time or how muchthey meant, none of it mattered.
It's really strange, because asudden death is really difficult
.
Knowing someone's going to dieis really difficult.
I talk about it like it's likeyou're standing on train tracks
and you can see the light of thetrain coming towards you,
(19:57):
barreling towards you.
You know it's coming.
You're not even sure you canstep out the way and have the
time.
You don't know if you want to,and that's a reality as well.
It's probably one of thetoughest things I've ever gone
through and I'm still.
You're never not out of notmissing that person.
I don't think you're in thesame stages of grief as when it
(20:22):
immediately happens.
But, as someone said the otherday, grief is universal, but
everybody's experience with itis individual and unique.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
It is.
I love that.
I want to repeat that Grief isuniversal right.
Of course we've all beenthrough grief.
We all will go through grief atsome point in time probably,
but each person's experience isunique.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Unique.
That's why I love to do whatI'm doing now, which is kind of
a grief advocacy, grief literacyeducation, in that we really
need to understand that peopleneed to grieve the way they need
to grieve.
And there's some wonderfulactive grief experts out there.
I'm on all their groups, Ithink, and on linkedin and
(21:03):
whatnot, but one of them has abook called it's okay not to be
okay on LinkedIn and whatnot,but one of them has a book
called it's Okay Not to Be Okay.
And there's another one calledRefuge in Grief and most of the
work that these women are doing.
And there's one gentleman I'vejust started following who lost
his wife a year or two ago.
He's very articulate and veryclear on Facebook and it's we're
alone.
We'll never have that personback in our life because they
(21:27):
are gone.
The future we thought we wouldhave, the trips Harry and I had
planned, the houses we mighthave lived in or what we would
do, just having someone to havecoffee at the kitchen table.
With the way I started my TEDxtalk, you know I miss those wise
conversations with somebodycaring and warm and
(21:49):
understanding on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
This touches on something that I heard my mom
talk about, which she saidsomething in one of her
grief-stricken moments of justbeing like people don't
understand that you're grievingmore than the loss of your
husband.
Yes, yeah, you're grievingexactly that.
I think it was when you said,like having coffee.
Now my mom and dad, they aresmokers, so they have this like
little special space outside inthe back of their little house
(22:14):
that they would go and havetheir morning smoke at.
But that was that it's like nothaving someone to speak to in
the morning anymore, not havingthat person to grab you the milk
from the fridge while you'rebusy cooking something you know
like for so long.
She would turn to like saysomething, because he's always
right there and then he's notanymore.
And it's like those are thegriefs, like there's grief after
(22:36):
grief after grief after griefafter grief, and I think
honoring that heaviness is soimportant to all of us.
Not thinking I should be overthis by now.
Can you speak a little bit onthat concept?
How long has it been sinceHarry's passed it?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
was eight years on June 27th of this year, so it's
been a while.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Eight years, and that feeling, that concept where
just recently something happenedand I started crying because I
missed my dad for some reason orwhatnot.
And I had that immediatereaction, that like old school
feeling of like it's been like11 years, jen, what is?
You know what I mean?
Like why are you not over thisyet?
And I stopped that immediately.
The work that I do now, theself-compassion, all of that
stuff.
I immediately was like you'reallowed to feel and grieve
(23:17):
however long you need to, butcan you touch on that feeling
where people say I should beover this by now, I should have
moved on, I should go getmarried?
Any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I tell them to stop shitting on me.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Stop shitting, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
We love to shit on people.
You should do this, you shoulddo that, you should do this.
It has no place in grieflanguage at all whatsoever.
It's none of their business howlong I take Now.
If I'm in deep grief, that'sdebilitating.
After eight years I need help.
You know there is kind ofchronic grief or complicated
(23:50):
grief or long-term grief, andthat is when you need to be with
a licensed practitionerpsychotherapist, psychologist,
whatever that specializes inhelping people.
I will never say move on,because you don't, but you move
forward.
And I have seen a beautifulillustration where there's a
(24:11):
bookshelf and so if you look atthe first month of when Harry
died, there might've been onebook on the bookshelf the book
of Harry, the book of my lifewith Harry and then it might've
stayed empty for a year or twoyears.
But eventually there are otherbooks that come in.
I'm now a grandmother, so youmight see the birth of my first
(24:33):
grandchild.
My son got married six monthsafter Harry died, so I became a
mother-in-law.
There'd be other books thatwould be now part of that, but
the Book of Harry remains inthat one space in the bookshelf.
It doesn't move, it doesn'tshift.
You just keep adding more lifeexperiences, more books, more
holidays with the children, moreToastmaster things, more goals
(24:55):
for myself that I just keep.
I guess I'm extremely, fromwhat people have told me,
intrinsically motivated to juststill keep finding purpose,
finding purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I've heard that before, like in terms of what
are the things that can reallymake your life satisfied,
fulfilling?
There's kind of four key things, you know.
Usually it's whole foods,healthy foods, movement, and one
of them is a sense of purpose.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And that sense of purpose.
I heard that even when you weretalking about the time before.
You know, in those three yearsyou and Harry had a sense of
purpose together.
You found that purpose andsometimes it takes needing to go
with a coach or a therapist ora psychologist to get them to
help you find that purpose.
But if you're feelingpurposeless right now, you're
kind of mindlessly all over theplace.
(25:41):
That's okay, right as well.
For a little time.
Like you said, a year, twoyears.
Take your time with it and then, if you're starting to feel
stuck, if you're starting tofeel like maybe I could be doing
something a little bit more butI don't know how that's when
you go and you get help.
You find grief educators.
You find them online, onFacebook and LinkedIn, on
Instagram, and these are theplaces where don't be afraid to
(26:03):
ask for help, right, is thatright, terry?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's huge and for someone who's as self-sufficient
as I am and apparently I've gotstrong Liverpool bloodlines and
pull yourself up by yourbootstraps and to be an
entrepreneur, as you yourselfknow, you need an extraordinary
amount of resilience and just anability to learn new things and
adapt and build.
(26:25):
The world of coaching that I'min now is very different to what
I started in 2011 when I wasstill married and I certified
within you know a Toastmastercertified speaking coaching.
It's very different, but I'vehad to learn to adapt and learn
to adapt, and some stuff I'mbetter at than others, and when
I can't do some of the techstuff, I ask for help.
(26:45):
But it's true, being resilient,being self-aware enough to know
or to have family around youthat says, you know, mom, you've
been really low for the pastcouple of months.
What can we do?
Who can we help you connectwith?
Or do you just want a littlemini holiday?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You know, oh, I love that.
So I love that so much in termsof, let's say, you have someone
else who is struggling.
So I can imagine I have somelisteners now and they have
parents, or maybe I'm thinkingof someone whose sister recently
lost her husband.
That's such a good point thatyou can help them in ways where
you're kind of asking them whatthey need, not necessarily going
(27:25):
over and kind of projecting andputting all of your stuff.
You need to be doing this, youneed to be getting out, because
if you ask someone, hey, do youwant?
You need to be going onvacation, or you should be right
, that's what you said Don'tshoot on yourself, don't shoot
on other people either.
And so if you're saying, likeyou got to get out of the house,
you need to go get somesunlight, can you talk us
through a little bit what wouldbe the nice, balanced way of
helping someone?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's really tough because, again, it depends on
different people.
Some people are more easy toapproach when they're hurt and
in pain than others and others.
You have to be able to read thesignals behind what they may be
shutting you out because theyneed to protect.
I can honestly say in the weekseven though I knew Harry was
going to die in the weeks afterhe died, I felt like I was
(28:08):
walking around inside out, likesomeone had turned all my nerve
endings to the outside of mybody.
I felt raw, I felt like I wasvibrating, but I also felt
invisible, because no one elseknows that you've just come back
from a funeral or no one elseknows, unless you're close work
(28:28):
colleagues.
But I had finished work by thetime he died.
I was working for myself, butmy family and people that were
close to me a drink or let's gotake a walk together those are
the things that are reallyhelpful.
It's the people that come inwith prescriptive do's and
don'ts that just don'tunderstand, and usually they
haven't lost someone.
Please don't do this.
(29:09):
The one-upmanship of grief andloss oh, I know exactly how you
feel because my uncle died yearsago and so by the time Harry
died, my mom had died in 2010.
That was hard.
I was still working.
I had a wonderful manager whosupported me beautifully through
that whole process and then,about seven years later, my
father died.
But he had watched me helpHarry through the whole illness
(29:32):
and he was my go-to, sometimeswhen I just needed to say, hey,
harry's going back in foranother nasty test, you know,
and he'd check in with me.
So he died and eight monthslater Harry died, and so that
was like yeah.
But when people come up and theysay, oh, we're so sorry for
your loss.
(29:52):
You know, when mom died, we'resorry for your loss, we're sorry
for your loss.
Okay, I understand, we don'tknow what to say when people
have died, and so that becomesthe go-to.
But then when dad died andHarry died and I'm talking to
people, I say, well, I lost mymom, I lost my dad, I lost my
husband, I lost my husband.
I joked about it once in aToastmasters speech.
(30:14):
I said that just makes me soundcareless.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Stop losing people all the time.
Stop losing people.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And I actually said in that talk they're not house
keys or an umbrella.
You know I haven't lost, youknow I haven't misplaced them.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, it's not a loss .
Oh, what would you say instead,Terri?
I would love to explore this.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, and so Megan Devine is one of the people I do
follow.
She's the one with the Refugein Grief.
She has a whole series ofgraphics that are really
important to share that saydon't say this, but try this
instead, and some of them is youknow, this must be really hard,
just right up front.
This must be really hard.
(30:53):
This must be really hard.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That really sucks that's kind of my go-to.
That's actually really good tohear because I just get really
honest and I'm just kind of likedude.
That really sucks, oh my god itdoes.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And so many people don't say that they want to
gloss over it because they wantto make you feel better, which
it's not their job to do.
And the other thing is I had afriend.
She's a lovely British lady.
She always wanted to cheer meon.
She always wanted to say, well,at least you can.
If you find yourself sayingwell, at least, yes, well, at
least, oh, no, stop it.
Yeah, at least you've got yourchildren's visit to look forward
(31:29):
to coming up, surely that makesyou feel better.
And I'm saying, surely itdoesn't bring him back from the
dead.
Like I can be really brutalwith people that are starting to
be too chirpy and just come on,buck up and get over it, you
know.
And so, yeah, it's likelearning the language to cope
with grief.
That's what grief literacy isall about.
And this is what I'm startingto ask more and more workplaces
(31:53):
when they're starting to look attheir policies and procedures
or how they're supporting theiremployees that are coming back
to work, like when mom died andI went back to work with three
to five days because that's allyou get.
My manager then was just sosupportive and so loving and I
had the flexibility I need.
There's huge documentation ofhow poorly we function when
(32:19):
we're still in that grief state.
We think we're doing okay butproductivity at work falls back.
We could be a safety issue withsome jobs at work and the stats
that I came across when I wasresearching that Disrupt HR talk
about bringing grief to work.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, such a great talk.
By the way, it even opened upmy mind a lot in terms of
thinking like, oh my gosh,you're right, we don't take any
time, this is wild.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Are we supporting employees?
Enough was one point in that.
Do the managers understand howto lead through loss?
Lead through loss Through loss,not around it or ignoring it or
bypassing it?
Can managers?
Are we training them enough sothey can lead an employee
through a deep, significant lossof a spouse, a daughter, even
(33:05):
extremely important pets, all ofthat sort of thing, but the
bottom line.
I was shocked when I read thatin the US alone, it's like $1.8
billion a year are lost tocompanies in their finances and
their bottom line, toproductivity, due to grief more
money.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
But actually, if you gave them more time off or you
listen to them or you were ableto actually, like you know, have
them come into HR, talk abouthow, how heavy of a loss was
this?
Was this somebody in your lifeevery day, like you said, were
(33:44):
you drinking coffee with them?
There could be different.
Even losing my dad, it wasn'tas the same as like for my
brother, because my brother somuch closer to him and they were
together and he could come overto his house and help things
out, but I'm on the other sideof the country, so my brother's
loss was different than mine.
He needed more time than I did.
That doesn't make anyone, youknow, more greater loving all
(34:05):
that stuff.
But talk to HR, do that, andthen actually the company
themselves will lose less money.
Or, you know, I guess, makemore money or stay equal,
whatever it is, by allowing thatperson that time to grieve,
versus forcing them back beforethey're ready.
Then, like you said, you don'thave productivity, you start
making tons of mistakes, youdon't actually just have someone
else in their place doing thejob as it should be done.
(34:26):
All of this stuff I justthought was so clever, such a
great point.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And the other point that I made there was there's
not just the dollar cost, butgood employees will leave if
they're not supported, which iswhat I did under my second
director, who did not understandhow sick Harry was and was
really not supportive of what Iwas going through.
As I'm doing multiple doctor'svisits, my son was having braid
(34:50):
surgery at the same time andthere was just a whole lot going
on, and meanwhile she would say, well, you're not really doing
the job we're paying you for.
And in the end I had to say youknow what, you're right.
And she was absolutely rightand I had no strength left in me
to advocate for myself.
There are things I should havedone, but I just couldn't even
think about it and so I justsaid okay, so what I'll do is
(35:13):
I'll quit, but you can't quitthe federal government in Canada
.
I resigned and then I got asmall pension not as much as I
would have had if I'd stayed andnot as much support as I would
have had if I'd stayed.
But at that point I was a veryvaluable employee before Harry
got sick and in the end I had tomake a choice because I was
(35:34):
gaining weight, getting sick.
I had chronic lung infections.
I had numerous things going onand I finally said I have one
job right now and that is to gohome and take care of him until
he's gone.
And that's what I did, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Terry, I just want to say thank you so so much for
just being so vulnerable andsharing so much of the story.
I know one of the things thatyou said was take this situation
you're in, take this grief thatyou have and find a purpose for
it, find a way to kind of stillwork through it.
Like you said, work throughthese feelings, this grief.
(36:09):
Don't shit on yourself, don'tthink that you need to be doing
one thing or another.
But let's say there's someoneout there.
Something I was thinking aboutis my big thing.
My platform is getting women touse their voice again, getting
them to find that voice, and Iwas thinking, as you're talking,
I'm like what better way tofind your voice than to talk
about it?
So there is a woman out thereand she wants to tell her story.
If there's a woman out there,you know you and I both know
(36:31):
this now there are stageseverywhere.
Even this podcast is a stage.
There are webinars, there arepodcasts, there are people
online.
They want to hear from women,they want to hear their grief
stories.
It's so powerful, it's soimportant.
If they want some help withwriting that speech, they can
reach out to you right,absolutely, that's what you do.
I mean you guys.
(36:51):
This is Terry's thing.
I know she's talking aboutgrief.
She's a beautiful griefeducator but also amazing
speaker, speaking coach.
I can't even say the wordspeaking, see.
That's why I need so much help,terry.
But I was thinking what abeautiful way for them to find
purpose.
Maybe they just say it once ortwice somewhere, but they get it
out.
So how can they reach out toyou?
Tell us a little bit more.
(37:11):
They can get your book oranything like that.
I want them to know you more.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Thank you.
Well, my book is on Amazon inthe US, in Canada and the UK.
Wherever you can buy books onAmazon and as long as you spell
Terry as a four letter wordT-E-R-I, you'll find me.
I am on LinkedIn.
I tend to post a fair bit onLinkedIn, mostly TED tips, but I
also on Fridays, I'm trying totouch more on the grief aspect
(37:36):
of the work I'm doing nowbecause I'm a coach and I'm a
speaker.
I love coaching people wherethey are, and so that means I
don't have a cookie cutterprogram that I put all my
speakers through.
People come to me, talk to me.
Sometimes they want to knowwhat their TED idea is.
I do have a chance.
If you go to my website, you'llsee there's a chance to book a
(37:56):
discovery call.
Do you know what their TED ideais?
I do have a chance.
If you go to my website, you'llsee there's a chance to book a
discovery call.
Do you know what your websiteURL is?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
It's Real Impact Speaking.
Real Impact Speaking.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Okay, perfect, spelled exactly what it looks
like On LinkedIn.
I'm under Terry Kingston, but Ilove to have those half-hour
chats with people to see if theyhave an idea we're spreading,
which is so important to Ted,but also more and more now to
help women, as you said exactly,find the story that needs the
(38:25):
voice that other women need tohear.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Find the story that needs the voice that other women
need to hear.
Whoa, that's stunning, I got toput that somewhere.
That's like, yeah, that's, Ithink, where you and I intersect
.
Terry is exactly that place,right, we just really want to be
able to lift up voices, be ableto help people find their power
, find their confidence, becausethat's the thing is there's so
many people.
I never would have thought thatI was going to be a speaker
(38:48):
before I got this opportunitywith Ted.
That's because I talk so much.
And then, like someone was like, hey, you know you could
actually put these words intolike actual boxes and make sense
.
And I was like what?
And the next thing, you know itis it's giving me a sense of
purpose, it's helping me heal,it's helping me just be able to
find a place for myself withinthis world.
(39:10):
You know as wacky and wild asit is right now, and so that's
what I encourage.
If you're out there listeningand you've been through any type
of grief it could be your lovedone passing away, it could be a
divorce, it could be movingaway, it could be anything that
grief means to you Find somepurpose through that, find a way
, maybe, to share your story.
(39:30):
You can even come into.
I have a Facebook group SpeakHonest.
You can come in and just shareyour story there.
There's so many women in therethat just want to lift each
other up.
You come in and you say this ismy husband, this is what we
went through, this is how much Ilove.
Come and tell all your storiesabout it.
We want to hear all of that.
But, terry, thank you so muchfor being on the podcast today
and I hope you have a beautifulweek.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Thank you, I appreciate being your guest.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Is there anything else that you would like to say
as we wrap up today?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
One final thought you cannot take a story to the
stage that you haven't fullydealt with yourself, and so when
we talk about grief, it is veryvulnerable and you need to be
ready.
So it's to have healed enoughwithin yourself that you could
stand in your own pain.
It still comes in waves, butshare the story from a place of
(40:18):
strength and, with that woundcovered, rather than the raw
vulnerability we feel, go to thesupport groups when you're
still processing the grief.
When you're ready, then that'swhen the stage and the audience
will be ready for you, and sothat's really, really important.
We're not up there to have theaudiences, our therapists.
(40:38):
We really need to be speakingfrom a place of of strength and
what we've learned.
Right, and that's really,really important.
But do reach out to Jen ormyself or Jen's Facebook group
sounds wonderful Explore whatgrief feels like for you and
then, when you're ready to maybedo a TEDx talk or put in an
(40:59):
application for some of theseother great stages, reach out,
find me on LinkedIn or find meon my website and we can start a
journey.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much, terri, youare most welcome.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
You take care, you too.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
All right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed this
conversation with Terry as muchas I did.
I could just sit and chat withTerry all the time.
I wanted to go and get like acup of tea with her at the end
of the session and I was like Ijust want to go be near her.
She just has this energy abouther.
That is stunning.
It makes you feel safe, itmakes you feel calm, it makes
you just feel just so taken careof.
When you're with her, her voiceis so soothing and I think
(41:38):
that's just one of her strongsuits, which is amazing.
I hope you got so much out ofthis conversation.
Like I said in the intro, evenif you haven't lost a loved one,
this conversation is still soimportant.
The topics that we touched onlike not shitting on yourself
huge, just so huge in that, andthere were so many other amazing
tidbits.
I want you to let me know whicharea of the conversation spoke
(42:00):
most to you.
You can jump into the facebookgroup, speak honest, secure
communication for women.
Go find us over there and justkeep the conversation going.
And remember, if you wanted toget in on the ground floor of my
new book, dance of attachment,which is with the publishing
company that I'm, you know,working with Terry, then you can
join us.
I'm going to drop a link in theshow notes, or you can just go
(42:22):
to danceofattachmentcom, sodanceofattachmentcom will get
you the information you need tosign up for early release.
We can win free books.
You can help me out withreading pre-copies, maybe
helping me to check and makesure I'm writing everything
correctly.
If you want to read a chaptertoo, I have the first four
(42:44):
chapters written.
So, hey, maybe you want to readthe chapter on disorganized
attachment.
If you do, let me know when yousign up to be a part of the
dance circle.
We want to create a communityhere at Speak Honest and really,
really see that healing is aco-collaborative space.
All right, this is why we needcommunity.
In fact, in order to earn asecure attachment, you have to
(43:06):
be able to do it in relationship, and what better way to do it
than with a bunch of otherlike-minded you know,
wackadoodle women that are alltrying to do their best as well.
So come into the Speak Honestcommunity over at Facebook and
join us there.
All right, everyone, I hope youhave a beautiful week.
I will speak with you all nextweek.
Take care, as we wrap uptoday's conversation, always
(43:30):
remember that healing is ajourney, not a destination, and
it is an honor to be a part ofyour healing journey.
If you want to dig deeper intothe topics we covered today, be
sure to head over to our shownotes, where you can find all of
the valuable informationmentioned in today's episode
right there, and please rememberto rate, review and subscribe
if you enjoyed today's podcast.
(43:51):
Your feedback means the worldto us and helps others discover
our podcast.
Until next time, remember tospeak up and speak honest.
Hello and welcome to Speak Honest.
I am your host and certifiedrelationship coach, jennifer
Noble.
It has been my passion for overa decade to help women like you
heal what's been holding youback from having the
relationships you deserve.
Are you struggling with arelationship where you can't
seem to voice your emotions,needs and boundaries without
(00:26):
having it blow up in your face?
Then you have found the rightpodcast, my friend.
Get ready for practical tips,empowering truths and honest
conversations.
Now let's dive in.
Hello everyone and welcome backto another episode of Speak
Honest.
I am Jen Noble, your go-torelationship coach, and on
today's podcast I'm so excitedto have a guest on with us.
(00:47):
I have my good friend, terryKingston, on to talk about all
the different types of things.
So Terry is actually acaregiver, advocate and widow.
She shares stories of courageand compassion to help
caregivers understand their roleand cope, especially when the
end of their caregiver journeyis in sight.
So she is a grief educator andit's so powerful to have her on
(01:10):
the show.
But in addition to a griefeducator, she's also a
sought-after TEDx coach.
It's actually how I know her.
She is an award-winning speaker, a best-selling author, and she
is just a fantastic human allaround.
She has a fantastic TEDx talkif you want to go check it out
about grief and about herhusband, and it is so powerful.
I highly recommend it.
But that is actually how I gotto know Terry.
(01:31):
She came into one of myToastmasters meetings a couple
years ago to talk about TED andwhat we can do to get ready for
it, and I started getting toknow her a little bit more.
And then I was following her onLinkedIn, which I highly
recommend.
Go and follow Terry Kingston onLinkedIn.
It's where she gives all of hergreat tips.
And the next thing I know I'mlooking up her book.
She has a book called Get Readyfor Ted when Ted is Ready for
(01:52):
you, and I noticed the publisherand so I reach out to the
publisher and they like what Ido.
And next thing you know, I'msigned up with the publisher and
so I get to write a book.
As a lot of you know, I amcurrently writing Dance of
Attachment and I am working withLucky Book Publishing.
Shout out to Sammy and Samar,hello, and all my beautiful
community over there.
I love you guys so much.
My Monday mornings are so muchbetter now because I get to
(02:14):
spend it with all of you, butthat is beside the point.
So I'm writing Dance ofAttachment, as a lot of you know
.
If you want to join the dancecircle, if you want to be a part
of the early release of thebook, then just scroll on down
to the show notes and I'll add alink down there.
You can be a part of the dancecircle, join us over there.
You get maybe an early copy ofthe book.
You get to be a part of thelaunch.
You get to maybe read a littlebit before it gets out there.
(02:36):
If you want to be a part ofthat, let me know.
And this book I'm overwhelmedwith emotion thinking about it.
Never thought I would everwrite a book.
Yet here we are and I'mactually currently struggling
with a lot of writer's block.
I'm actually working with acoach right now, a somatic coach
to kind of work through that.
What's going on with my body?
How come every time I sit down,my whole body wants to shut
down or I want to fall asleep?
(02:57):
And this is what this work isall about.
It's about getting curious, notjudging, not shaming, not
telling myself oh, why don't youjust do it?
You're such a waste of spaceall this stuff.
It's just about being able towork through it, and in my
conversation with Terry, you'regoing to hear what we talk about
a lot on.
There is not shooting ourselves, and I was thinking about that
a lot when I am struggling towrite my book right now, and I
(03:18):
shouldn't shoot on myself.
I should be writing.
I should have it done by now.
I should have had it finished.
I told my publisher I'd have itfinished by June.
It's not.
I should be speaking on morestages to promote it and I'm
just so tired I can't.
All of that really resonatedwith me and with where I'm going
in my life right now.
So, as you're listening to thisconversation with Terry, I just
(03:40):
want you to think about where inyour life are you grieving?
This doesn't necessarily haveto be about death, although we
do mainly talk about the passingof her husband.
At the same time, this could beabout divorce, this could be
about moving away, this could beabout changing careers, just
going and transitioning to adifferent part of life.
It doesn't matter.
Grief is heavy and grief iseverywhere.
(04:01):
So, even if you've never lostanyone, if you have not had to
deal with the death of a lovedone, I want you to listen in on
this conversation with Terry andfigure out where can you share
your story, where can you findyour purpose, where can you
utilize this grief, this pain,this feeling in your life and
use it for your best self, useit for your good.
(04:22):
Be able to figure out a way ofsaying, okay, I'm going to
channel this into this area here.
So I hope you enjoy myconversation with Terri.
Hello everyone and welcome back.
I'm so excited to get to talkwith Terri Kingston today.
Terri Kingston is someone thatI consider a friend, a colleague
(04:42):
, someone that I've kind oftraveled along this journey with
and she's kind of been on myside there.
She is a TEDx speaker, anaward-winning speaker, a TEDx
coach, but more importantly tome right now, because what I
want to talk about, is she is agrief educator and this is such
an honor to get to have her onthe podcast today to be able to
talk about that.
But I actually met Terry when Iwas giving my own TEDx talk
(05:05):
about attachment styles and shecame into my Toastmasters
meeting, got to know us, helpedus so much.
We actually.
I have her book here.
That is one of the very firstbooks I read on really how to
give a TEDx talk, which is GetReady for TED when TED is ready
for you.
It's so nice to have you on theshow, terry.
Go ahead and say hi, introduceyourself.
Anything else, you on the show,terry Go ahead and say hi,
(05:25):
introduce yourself, anythingelse.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Thank you, jen.
Yeah, it's wonderful to be here.
I remember dropping in on thatToastmaster meeting and getting
to meet all of you that werepreparing for your TEDx talk.
But anytime you drop into aclub like that, there's always
one or two people that stand outwith their readiness or their
eagerness or just theirconnection with their own
content, and that's what you didfor me, and I watched your talk
(05:48):
later and I thought, yeah, shenailed that.
She nailed that.
She nailed that.
And I was just so excited foryou that you got the opportunity
and you did it so well, socongratulations.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Thank you so much, terry, and it was such a divine
thing to get to have you be apart of that community and to
get to know you, because I, whenI read your book, I started
kind of getting interested of,like, this is such a well
written book I mean, look, it'snot that big, it was such an
easy read.
It helped me so much.
And I looked and there was thislittle tiny thing that said
lucky book publishing and I waslike that's interesting.
(06:20):
I'm going to reach out to Terryand find out a little bit more
about this.
And that is how I ended upsigning up with Lucky Book
Publishing myself and, as mylisteners know, I will be
finishing up my book soon,hopefully with a launch this
fall, some sort of eventhappening in LA with some of our
other authors.
And it has been an amazingcommunity to be a part of do you
just want to talk a little bitabout Lucky Book Publishing real
(06:41):
quick, terry Well as one of theco-founders said yesterday, I'm
one of the original old girls.
You are, you're an OG, like youreally are, and I really am an
OG.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I do remember getting a cheeky little note from
Samantha not long after Istarted and she mentioned
something like you're reallygood for your age and I kind of
laughed at her and I said youmay want to check your ageism
bias there.
You know, but I have never feltanywhere near the age I am and
usually I haven't looked ateither.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
No, not at all, but.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I do have to tell you that, and we will get into this
a little bit as the talk goeson today Grief ages you beyond
what you can even imagine andthere's just so many components
to the anticipatory griefjourney when I was a caregiver
for my now late husband when hewas very ill.
(07:36):
When you know what's coming andyou don't want to face it,
that's a huge part.
So anticipatory grief is a bigpart of what I'll be talking
about more in the future.
But dealing with losing yoursecond chance, your golden years
, gentlemen, and all of thatpossible future of what I
(07:57):
thought I'd be living at thissenior age of mine, that's just
simply not there anymore.
So a huge part of the grievingprocess is coming to terms with
the future I have, and thepresent that I have is nothing
like I imagined it to be when wefirst married.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, Thank you for sharing that, terry.
Can we back up a little bit andcan you tell my listeners a
little bit of your story, howlong you were married when your
husband passed?
All of that to kind of set thegroundwork.
And then I would love to touchmore on this anticipatory grief
and what grieving has been likefor you afterwards.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Absolutely so.
Funnily enough, because wementioned Toastmasters already,
I met Harry in my first year ofToastmasters and I think his
32nd or something or 39th he'dbeen in it forever in a contest
at the district level.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I didn't know this.
That's adorable.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I had won at club area division and I was at
district.
I hadn't even been aToastmaster for a year and I'm
on the district stage for theInternational Speech Contest,
which is our highest level ofspeaking, and the Evaluation
Contest the next day.
So I met Harry in the briefingfor the Evaluation Contest.
He'd heard me speak the daybefore and he came up to me and
(09:17):
this man was tall, handsome,very charismatic, very gentle
and had a tendency to seepotential in someone and believe
in you more than you believedin yourself at the time and then
help you rise to the level ofhis beliefs in you.
And so he came up to me at thebriefing and he said you did
(09:39):
really well yesterday.
You're obviously new at this.
You have a lot of raw naturaltalent, but you really need some
coaching.
Can I coach you?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
He did yeah, oh and wait.
When was this?
Like what year, Like how manyyears ago?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That was 2003,.
In the spring of 2003, at theconference in Pointe Claire,
Montreal.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Well, he just came right out and did that.
I love that so much.
He did.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now, mind you, we were friends for a couple of
years and I joined an advancedclub he'd started, he mentored
and coached me for two or threeyears before he took me out for
dinner one day and he said thisis what I see happening next.
What do you think?
And it was basically anengagement proposal and by then
I'd really gotten to like andadmire and really learned from
(10:25):
how he coached other people.
He mentored so many policeofficers in the Ottawa Police
Force, helped them withpromotions.
He just was a huge part of thecommunity and watching him, his
heart for community service, hisheart for Toastmasters was huge
and yeah, and so that's how wemet and Toastmasters was kind of
(10:47):
our thing, which is a goodthing, because he went on to be
part of the district executive,which was extremely busy, and at
his side I must have visitedover two, three hundred clubs in
you know, five or six years.
I tell people he exposed me tomore Toastmaster speaking than I
would have ever had theopportunity had I just been
(11:08):
myself bobbing along theToastmaster, current and so many
, many clubs, many differentstyles of speakers, evaluated by
everybody, but mostly by him inthe car on the way home after a
meeting.
Honestly, that's where reallove comes in, because you have
to listen and you have to sayyes, dear, but you also have to
(11:31):
take it on board, because healways knew what he was talking
about.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That just sounds be able to take that kind of
feedback, that kind of, you know, constructive criticism, or the
evaluation as we would say inToastmasters.
I find I see you talking aboutit and this beautiful, secure
relationship that you have withhim.
To be able to actually hearthat for someone means you trust
them, you feel safe with them,you love them, and that part is
so incredibly important.
(11:54):
So tell me a little bit morenow.
When did you find out that heonly had so much longer?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, there were different things that were
happening.
He wasn't all that healthy whenwe met, but neither of us knew
it.
There were different incidenceshe started having high blood
pressure and nosebleeds, andthen he had kidney stones.
And then there was somethingelse and something else.
But we were taking Thanksgivingdinner to my father, I think a
year or two after my mom haddied and Harry had been.
(12:26):
He loved to cook, so he'd beenin the kitchen all day cooking
the turkey, standing on his feet, and when he went to carry the
turkey out to the car, he justhe looked at me and he said I
just don't feel right, Like Idon't feel well at all.
We got to my dad's house, wewalked in, I put the turkey in
the kitchen and my dad came outand he said there's something
(12:46):
wrong with Harry, he doesn'tlook right.
And so, fortunately, he allowedme to make an appointment to
see a family doctor the next day.
This is very rare.
This family doctor understoodhis symptoms, knew what was
potentially happening and got usan appointment at the Ottawa
Heart Institute within a fewdays.
(13:07):
This is one of the best heartclinics in all of Canada, but
they also have a special branchcalled the Pulmonary Arterial
Hypertension Clinic.
That's what it turned out hehad.
Most people go undiagnosed foryears because doctors think it's
asthma or bronchitis ordifferent heart things.
They don't understand thatthere are specific symptoms that
(13:30):
show up when the pulmonaryarteries which are the arteries
in the right side of the heart,not the left, which is usually
where people have heart issuesbut they're clogged and they
can't get enough oxygen intopeople's bodies clogged and they
can't get enough oxygen intopeople's bodies.
And so he would fall asleepanytime.
He sat down because he wasconstantly exhausted, he
(13:51):
couldn't catch his breath.
We would go for walks across tothe river in front of where we
lived and he would have to sitdown and he just would say, oh,
I just want to watch the ducks,and he would not let me know.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Oh yeah, finding like kind of excuses to make you
feel comfortable and safethroughout this.
So after he was diagnosed,about how much longer did you
have to be able to be with him?
Did you do it?
You mentioned anticipatorygrief.
I'm assuming hearing that word.
It kind of means you knowsomebody is nearing the end of
their life.
This could be the case formaybe people as well who have
(14:24):
loved ones with cancer.
Something like this Is thatright, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And when we got the diagnosis the doctors were
really clear.
They said we don't go on Google, don't look up the symptoms.
You'll read all sorts of stuffthat just aren't true.
But it's a very aggressive,incurable disease that he had,
and so it was rare, aggressiveand incurable those were the
words that kind of stuck in myhead.
Three to five years was theaverage prognosis.
(14:51):
They put them on very strongdrug therapy, which is almost
like continuous chemotherapy.
It's actually really horribleand some patients do well for
way, way, way longer.
But he had some other issuesthat were already showing up and
so for him this was kind of thewinding down.
He was a hunter, a fisher, heloved being outdoors, he was
(15:15):
strong, he was vibrant, and thenthis disease got hold of him.
We did well for the first threeyears.
We continued.
He was district officer duringthose years.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Oh, so he's still working or doing his thing, and
all of that stuff is still going.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Okay, oh yeah, and then eventually the drug
therapies they start stackingthem up and then eventually the
disease just keeps overcomingthe therapies.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Can I ask you, terry, because my heart kind of
started like feeling somethingright now as I was talking and
I'm just thinking can you talkabout what it must have felt
like in those three years to seethe love of your life going
about, doing his life likenormal, doing all these things?
But you know this is not goingto last.
Like you said, you're notgetting your golden years with
this man, this love of your life.
(15:59):
How does that change you?
What did you do differently?
Gained 50 pounds.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Go on.
That's a huge part of it.
Well, the first couple of yearswe both just you know, we're
both speakers.
So he became a member of theboard for the Pulmonary
Hypertension Association ofCanada.
I became an advocate so wethrew ourselves into making sure
parliament, making sure medicalsystems, knew what we needed to
get drugs approved.
We were very active.
(16:31):
I helped start a support groupfor the Ottawa community, which
is still one of the strongestand biggest in the country of
patients because the patientswere always well taken care of
and caregivers, because I feltthe caregivers had an unheard
voice that needed to besupported and loved and carried
through so we could carry whatcan't be carried.
And so I've spoken at theirconferences.
I actually helped them developa tool to help caregivers, you
(16:54):
know map their wellnessthroughout different stages of
this anticipatory grief journeyand just general awareness.
We have a great support groupon Facebook that I'm still part
of, even though it tears myheart out sometimes to see other
people that I've come to knowand love going down that slope
where the symptoms are gettingworse and the drugs are no
(17:15):
longer coping.
So one of my ways of coping youcan't see my bookshelf, but I
have a bookshelf that's about 12books long of anticipatory
grief.
How do you deal with death whenyou know it's coming?
How do you face what can't befaced?
I read a lot.
I'm not a support group personother than the one I helped
(17:35):
start, but I read a lot.
I took a lot of webinars aboutunderstanding end of life and I
wrote a TEDx talk.
That's where that talk camefrom was me trying to cope with
it?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, it sounds like you really kind of put your
energy into doing stuff, which Ithink is just so beautiful,
like you fought for legislation.
You kept working.
You didn't kind of just stop.
You guys didn't just stop yourlives.
You didn't just grieve theentire time.
There was grief that washappening whilst kind of making
something out of this.
And you're right, your TEDxtalk is one of the most powerful
(18:08):
TEDx talks I've watched in along time, like it was just
incredibly special.
So I a bit of my personal story.
I lost my dad back in 2014 witha heart attack, what they call
the widow baker.
So it was.
It's the opposite ofanticipatory grief.
It was getting the phone calland not completely just being
like you're making a joke, right, like I don't even.
(18:29):
I didn't even get to saygoodbye.
So my mother she was what?
60 at the time and my dad hadjust turned 64.
And so she did the same thing.
She is starting that secondstage of her life, not expecting
this without the love of herlife, you know, going through
all of this and she's just lost,just completely lost.
And I actually sent her yourTEDx talk and I remember it made
(18:51):
her cry a lot, because havingsomeone there to kind of
understand this process.
It's you just when you're in it, and would you agree with this
one?
And maybe again, anticipatorygrief is different than sudden
grief, but sometimes you justfeel alone.
What would you say to thosewomen out there Maybe someone's
listening right now.
They've lost their loved one,they've lost the love of their
life and she just feels so alone.
(19:12):
What would you say to that?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
There's almost no words that can help anybody make
it feel better, because nowords can.
When I moved here this pastsummer, I went through or three
summers ago, when I left Ottawa,I went through a stack of
sympathy cards from Harry'sfuneral and I was rereading them
all.
I didn't bring them with me, Ilet them all go, but I was
(19:34):
rereading them all and realizingthat, no matter what people
said at the time or how muchthey meant, none of it mattered.
It's really strange, because asudden death is really difficult
.
Knowing someone's going to dieis really difficult.
I talk about it like it's likeyou're standing on train tracks
and you can see the light of thetrain coming towards you,
(19:57):
barreling towards you.
You know it's coming.
You're not even sure you canstep out the way and have the
time.
You don't know if you want to,and that's a reality as well.
It's probably one of thetoughest things I've ever gone
through and I'm still.
You're never not out of notmissing that person.
I don't think you're in thesame stages of grief as when it
(20:22):
immediately happens.
But, as someone said the otherday, grief is universal, but
everybody's experience with itis individual and unique.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
It is.
I love that.
I want to repeat that Grief isuniversal right.
Of course we've all beenthrough grief.
We all will go through grief atsome point in time probably,
but each person's experience isunique.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Unique.
That's why I love to do whatI'm doing now, which is kind of
a grief advocacy, grief literacyeducation, in that we really
need to understand that peopleneed to grieve the way they need
to grieve.
And there's some wonderfulactive grief experts out there.
I'm on all their groups, Ithink, and on linkedin and
(21:03):
whatnot, but one of them has abook called it's okay not to be
okay on LinkedIn and whatnot,but one of them has a book
called it's Okay Not to Be Okay.
And there's another one calledRefuge in Grief and most of the
work that these women are doing.
And there's one gentleman I'vejust started following who lost
his wife a year or two ago.
He's very articulate and veryclear on Facebook and it's we're
alone.
We'll never have that personback in our life because they
(21:27):
are gone.
The future we thought we wouldhave, the trips Harry and I had
planned, the houses we mighthave lived in or what we would
do, just having someone to havecoffee at the kitchen table.
With the way I started my TEDxtalk, you know I miss those wise
conversations with somebodycaring and warm and
(21:49):
understanding on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
This touches on something that I heard my mom
talk about, which she saidsomething in one of her
grief-stricken moments of justbeing like people don't
understand that you're grievingmore than the loss of your
husband.
Yes, yeah, you're grievingexactly that.
I think it was when you said,like having coffee.
Now my mom and dad, they aresmokers, so they have this like
little special space outside inthe back of their little house
(22:14):
that they would go and havetheir morning smoke at.
But that was that it's like nothaving someone to speak to in
the morning anymore, not havingthat person to grab you the milk
from the fridge while you'rebusy cooking something you know
like for so long.
She would turn to like saysomething, because he's always
right there and then he's notanymore.
And it's like those are thegriefs, like there's grief after
(22:36):
grief after grief after griefafter grief, and I think
honoring that heaviness is soimportant to all of us.
Not thinking I should be overthis by now.
Can you speak a little bit onthat concept?
How long has it been sinceHarry's passed it?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
was eight years on June 27th of this year, so it's
been a while.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Eight years, and that feeling, that concept where
just recently something happenedand I started crying because I
missed my dad for some reason orwhatnot.
And I had that immediatereaction, that like old school
feeling of like it's been like11 years, jen, what is?
You know what I mean?
Like why are you not over thisyet?
And I stopped that immediately.
The work that I do now, theself-compassion, all of that
stuff.
I immediately was like you'reallowed to feel and grieve
(23:17):
however long you need to, butcan you touch on that feeling
where people say I should beover this by now, I should have
moved on, I should go getmarried?
Any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I tell them to stop shitting on me.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Stop shitting, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
We love to shit on people.
You should do this, you shoulddo that, you should do this.
It has no place in grieflanguage at all whatsoever.
It's none of their business howlong I take Now.
If I'm in deep grief, that'sdebilitating.
After eight years I need help.
You know there is kind ofchronic grief or complicated
(23:50):
grief or long-term grief, andthat is when you need to be with
a licensed practitionerpsychotherapist, psychologist,
whatever that specializes inhelping people.
I will never say move on,because you don't, but you move
forward.
And I have seen a beautifulillustration where there's a
(24:11):
bookshelf and so if you look atthe first month of when Harry
died, there might've been onebook on the bookshelf the book
of Harry, the book of my lifewith Harry and then it might've
stayed empty for a year or twoyears.
But eventually there are otherbooks that come in.
I'm now a grandmother, so youmight see the birth of my first
(24:33):
grandchild.
My son got married six monthsafter Harry died, so I became a
mother-in-law.
There'd be other books thatwould be now part of that, but
the Book of Harry remains inthat one space in the bookshelf.
It doesn't move, it doesn'tshift.
You just keep adding more lifeexperiences, more books, more
holidays with the children, moreToastmaster things, more goals
(24:55):
for myself that I just keep.
I guess I'm extremely, fromwhat people have told me,
intrinsically motivated to juststill keep finding purpose,
finding purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I've heard that before, like in terms of what
are the things that can reallymake your life satisfied,
fulfilling?
There's kind of four key things, you know.
Usually it's whole foods,healthy foods, movement, and one
of them is a sense of purpose.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And that sense of purpose.
I heard that even when you weretalking about the time before.
You know, in those three yearsyou and Harry had a sense of
purpose together.
You found that purpose andsometimes it takes needing to go
with a coach or a therapist ora psychologist to get them to
help you find that purpose.
But if you're feelingpurposeless right now, you're
kind of mindlessly all over theplace.
(25:41):
That's okay, right as well.
For a little time.
Like you said, a year, twoyears.
Take your time with it and then, if you're starting to feel
stuck, if you're starting tofeel like maybe I could be doing
something a little bit more butI don't know how that's when
you go and you get help.
You find grief educators.
You find them online, onFacebook and LinkedIn, on
Instagram, and these are theplaces where don't be afraid to
(26:03):
ask for help, right, is thatright, terry?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's huge and for someone who's as self-sufficient
as I am and apparently I've gotstrong Liverpool bloodlines and
pull yourself up by yourbootstraps and to be an
entrepreneur, as you yourselfknow, you need an extraordinary
amount of resilience and just anability to learn new things and
adapt and build.
(26:25):
The world of coaching that I'min now is very different to what
I started in 2011 when I wasstill married and I certified
within you know a Toastmastercertified speaking coaching.
It's very different, but I'vehad to learn to adapt and learn
to adapt, and some stuff I'mbetter at than others, and when
I can't do some of the techstuff, I ask for help.
(26:45):
But it's true, being resilient,being self-aware enough to know
or to have family around youthat says, you know, mom, you've
been really low for the pastcouple of months.
What can we do?
Who can we help you connectwith?
Or do you just want a littlemini holiday?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You know, oh, I love that.
So I love that so much in termsof, let's say, you have someone
else who is struggling.
So I can imagine I have somelisteners now and they have
parents, or maybe I'm thinkingof someone whose sister recently
lost her husband.
That's such a good point thatyou can help them in ways where
you're kind of asking them whatthey need, not necessarily going
(27:25):
over and kind of projecting andputting all of your stuff.
You need to be doing this, youneed to be getting out, because
if you ask someone, hey, do youwant?
You need to be going onvacation, or you should be right
, that's what you said Don'tshoot on yourself, don't shoot
on other people either.
And so if you're saying, likeyou got to get out of the house,
you need to go get somesunlight, can you talk us
through a little bit what wouldbe the nice, balanced way of
helping someone?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's really tough because, again, it depends on
different people.
Some people are more easy toapproach when they're hurt and
in pain than others and others.
You have to be able to read thesignals behind what they may be
shutting you out because theyneed to protect.
I can honestly say in the weekseven though I knew Harry was
going to die in the weeks afterhe died, I felt like I was
(28:08):
walking around inside out, likesomeone had turned all my nerve
endings to the outside of mybody.
I felt raw, I felt like I wasvibrating, but I also felt
invisible, because no one elseknows that you've just come back
from a funeral or no one elseknows, unless you're close work
(28:28):
colleagues.
But I had finished work by thetime he died.
I was working for myself, butmy family and people that were
close to me a drink or let's gotake a walk together those are
the things that are reallyhelpful.
It's the people that come inwith prescriptive do's and
don'ts that just don'tunderstand, and usually they
haven't lost someone.
Please don't do this.
(29:09):
The one-upmanship of grief andloss oh, I know exactly how you
feel because my uncle died yearsago and so by the time Harry
died, my mom had died in 2010.
That was hard.
I was still working.
I had a wonderful manager whosupported me beautifully through
that whole process and then,about seven years later, my
father died.
But he had watched me helpHarry through the whole illness
(29:32):
and he was my go-to, sometimeswhen I just needed to say, hey,
harry's going back in foranother nasty test, you know,
and he'd check in with me.
So he died and eight monthslater Harry died, and so that
was like yeah.
But when people come up and theysay, oh, we're so sorry for
your loss.
(29:52):
You know, when mom died, we'resorry for your loss, we're sorry
for your loss.
Okay, I understand, we don'tknow what to say when people
have died, and so that becomesthe go-to.
But then when dad died andHarry died and I'm talking to
people, I say, well, I lost mymom, I lost my dad, I lost my
husband, I lost my husband.
I joked about it once in aToastmasters speech.
(30:14):
I said that just makes me soundcareless.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Stop losing people all the time.
Stop losing people.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And I actually said in that talk they're not house
keys or an umbrella.
You know I haven't lost, youknow I haven't misplaced them.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, it's not a loss .
Oh, what would you say instead,Terri?
I would love to explore this.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, and so Megan Devine is one of the people I do
follow.
She's the one with the Refugein Grief.
She has a whole series ofgraphics that are really
important to share that saydon't say this, but try this
instead, and some of them is youknow, this must be really hard,
just right up front.
This must be really hard.
(30:53):
This must be really hard.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That really sucks that's kind of my go-to.
That's actually really good tohear because I just get really
honest and I'm just kind of likedude.
That really sucks, oh my god itdoes.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And so many people don't say that they want to
gloss over it because they wantto make you feel better, which
it's not their job to do.
And the other thing is I had afriend.
She's a lovely British lady.
She always wanted to cheer meon.
She always wanted to say, well,at least you can.
If you find yourself sayingwell, at least, yes, well, at
least, oh, no, stop it.
Yeah, at least you've got yourchildren's visit to look forward
(31:29):
to coming up, surely that makesyou feel better.
And I'm saying, surely itdoesn't bring him back from the
dead.
Like I can be really brutalwith people that are starting to
be too chirpy and just come on,buck up and get over it, you
know.
And so, yeah, it's likelearning the language to cope
with grief.
That's what grief literacy isall about.
And this is what I'm startingto ask more and more workplaces
(31:53):
when they're starting to look attheir policies and procedures
or how they're supporting theiremployees that are coming back
to work, like when mom died andI went back to work with three
to five days because that's allyou get.
My manager then was just sosupportive and so loving and I
had the flexibility I need.
There's huge documentation ofhow poorly we function when
(32:19):
we're still in that grief state.
We think we're doing okay butproductivity at work falls back.
We could be a safety issue withsome jobs at work and the stats
that I came across when I wasresearching that Disrupt HR talk
about bringing grief to work.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, such a great talk.
By the way, it even opened upmy mind a lot in terms of
thinking like, oh my gosh,you're right, we don't take any
time, this is wild.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Are we supporting employees?
Enough was one point in that.
Do the managers understand howto lead through loss?
Lead through loss Through loss,not around it or ignoring it or
bypassing it?
Can managers?
Are we training them enough sothey can lead an employee
through a deep, significant lossof a spouse, a daughter, even
(33:05):
extremely important pets, all ofthat sort of thing, but the
bottom line.
I was shocked when I read thatin the US alone, it's like $1.8
billion a year are lost tocompanies in their finances and
their bottom line, toproductivity, due to grief more
money.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
But actually, if you gave them more time off or you
listen to them or you were ableto actually, like you know, have
them come into HR, talk abouthow, how heavy of a loss was
this?
Was this somebody in your lifeevery day, like you said, were
(33:44):
you drinking coffee with them?
There could be different.
Even losing my dad, it wasn'tas the same as like for my
brother, because my brother somuch closer to him and they were
together and he could come overto his house and help things
out, but I'm on the other sideof the country, so my brother's
loss was different than mine.
He needed more time than I did.
That doesn't make anyone, youknow, more greater loving all
(34:05):
that stuff.
But talk to HR, do that, andthen actually the company
themselves will lose less money.
Or, you know, I guess, makemore money or stay equal,
whatever it is, by allowing thatperson that time to grieve,
versus forcing them back beforethey're ready.
Then, like you said, you don'thave productivity, you start
making tons of mistakes, youdon't actually just have someone
else in their place doing thejob as it should be done.
(34:26):
All of this stuff I justthought was so clever, such a
great point.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And the other point that I made there was there's
not just the dollar cost, butgood employees will leave if
they're not supported, which iswhat I did under my second
director, who did not understandhow sick Harry was and was
really not supportive of what Iwas going through.
As I'm doing multiple doctor'svisits, my son was having braid
(34:50):
surgery at the same time andthere was just a whole lot going
on, and meanwhile she would say, well, you're not really doing
the job we're paying you for.
And in the end I had to say youknow what, you're right.
And she was absolutely rightand I had no strength left in me
to advocate for myself.
There are things I should havedone, but I just couldn't even
think about it and so I justsaid okay, so what I'll do is
(35:13):
I'll quit, but you can't quitthe federal government in Canada
.
I resigned and then I got asmall pension not as much as I
would have had if I'd stayed andnot as much support as I would
have had if I'd stayed.
But at that point I was a veryvaluable employee before Harry
got sick and in the end I had tomake a choice because I was
(35:34):
gaining weight, getting sick.
I had chronic lung infections.
I had numerous things going onand I finally said I have one
job right now and that is to gohome and take care of him until
he's gone.
And that's what I did, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Terry, I just want to say thank you so so much for
just being so vulnerable andsharing so much of the story.
I know one of the things thatyou said was take this situation
you're in, take this grief thatyou have and find a purpose for
it, find a way to kind of stillwork through it.
Like you said, work throughthese feelings, this grief.
(36:09):
Don't shit on yourself, don'tthink that you need to be doing
one thing or another.
But let's say there's someoneout there.
Something I was thinking aboutis my big thing.
My platform is getting women touse their voice again, getting
them to find that voice, and Iwas thinking, as you're talking,
I'm like what better way tofind your voice than to talk
about it?
So there is a woman out thereand she wants to tell her story.
If there's a woman out there,you know you and I both know
(36:31):
this now there are stageseverywhere.
Even this podcast is a stage.
There are webinars, there arepodcasts, there are people
online.
They want to hear from women,they want to hear their grief
stories.
It's so powerful, it's soimportant.
If they want some help withwriting that speech, they can
reach out to you right,absolutely, that's what you do.
I mean you guys.
(36:51):
This is Terry's thing.
I know she's talking aboutgrief.
She's a beautiful griefeducator but also amazing
speaker, speaking coach.
I can't even say the wordspeaking, see.
That's why I need so much help,terry.
But I was thinking what abeautiful way for them to find
purpose.
Maybe they just say it once ortwice somewhere, but they get it
out.
So how can they reach out toyou?
Tell us a little bit more.
(37:11):
They can get your book oranything like that.
I want them to know you more.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Thank you.
Well, my book is on Amazon inthe US, in Canada and the UK.
Wherever you can buy books onAmazon and as long as you spell
Terry as a four letter wordT-E-R-I, you'll find me.
I am on LinkedIn.
I tend to post a fair bit onLinkedIn, mostly TED tips, but I
also on Fridays, I'm trying totouch more on the grief aspect
(37:36):
of the work I'm doing nowbecause I'm a coach and I'm a
speaker.
I love coaching people wherethey are, and so that means I
don't have a cookie cutterprogram that I put all my
speakers through.
People come to me, talk to me.
Sometimes they want to knowwhat their TED idea is.
I do have a chance.
If you go to my website, you'llsee there's a chance to book a
(37:56):
discovery call.
Do you know what their TED ideais?
I do have a chance.
If you go to my website, you'llsee there's a chance to book a
discovery call.
Do you know what your websiteURL is?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
It's Real Impact Speaking.
Real Impact Speaking.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Okay, perfect, spelled exactly what it looks
like On LinkedIn.
I'm under Terry Kingston, but Ilove to have those half-hour
chats with people to see if theyhave an idea we're spreading,
which is so important to Ted,but also more and more now to
help women, as you said exactly,find the story that needs the
(38:25):
voice that other women need tohear.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Find the story that needs the voice that other women
need to hear.
Whoa, that's stunning, I got toput that somewhere.
That's like, yeah, that's, Ithink, where you and I intersect
.
Terry is exactly that place,right, we just really want to be
able to lift up voices, be ableto help people find their power
, find their confidence, becausethat's the thing is there's so
many people.
I never would have thought thatI was going to be a speaker
(38:48):
before I got this opportunitywith Ted.
That's because I talk so much.
And then, like someone was like, hey, you know you could
actually put these words intolike actual boxes and make sense
.
And I was like what?
And the next thing, you know itis it's giving me a sense of
purpose, it's helping me heal,it's helping me just be able to
find a place for myself withinthis world.
(39:10):
You know as wacky and wild asit is right now, and so that's
what I encourage.
If you're out there listeningand you've been through any type
of grief it could be your lovedone passing away, it could be a
divorce, it could be movingaway, it could be anything that
grief means to you Find somepurpose through that, find a way
, maybe, to share your story.
(39:30):
You can even come into.
I have a Facebook group SpeakHonest.
You can come in and just shareyour story there.
There's so many women in therethat just want to lift each
other up.
You come in and you say this ismy husband, this is what we
went through, this is how much Ilove.
Come and tell all your storiesabout it.
We want to hear all of that.
But, terry, thank you so muchfor being on the podcast today
and I hope you have a beautifulweek.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Thank you, I appreciate being your guest.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Is there anything else that you would like to say
as we wrap up today?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
One final thought you cannot take a story to the
stage that you haven't fullydealt with yourself, and so when
we talk about grief, it is veryvulnerable and you need to be
ready.
So it's to have healed enoughwithin yourself that you could
stand in your own pain.
It still comes in waves, butshare the story from a place of
(40:18):
strength and, with that woundcovered, rather than the raw
vulnerability we feel, go to thesupport groups when you're
still processing the grief.
When you're ready, then that'swhen the stage and the audience
will be ready for you, and sothat's really, really important.
We're not up there to have theaudiences, our therapists.
(40:38):
We really need to be speakingfrom a place of of strength and
what we've learned.
Right, and that's really,really important.
But do reach out to Jen ormyself or Jen's Facebook group
sounds wonderful Explore whatgrief feels like for you and
then, when you're ready to maybedo a TEDx talk or put in an
(40:59):
application for some of theseother great stages, reach out,
find me on LinkedIn or find meon my website and we can start a
journey.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much, terri, youare most welcome.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
You take care, you too.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
All right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed this
conversation with Terry as muchas I did.
I could just sit and chat withTerry all the time.
I wanted to go and get like acup of tea with her at the end
of the session and I was like Ijust want to go be near her.
She just has this energy abouther.
That is stunning.
It makes you feel safe, itmakes you feel calm, it makes
you just feel just so taken careof.
When you're with her, her voiceis so soothing and I think
(41:38):
that's just one of her strongsuits, which is amazing.
I hope you got so much out ofthis conversation.
Like I said in the intro, evenif you haven't lost a loved one,
this conversation is still soimportant.
The topics that we touched onlike not shitting on yourself
huge, just so huge in that, andthere were so many other amazing
tidbits.
I want you to let me know whicharea of the conversation spoke
(42:00):
most to you.
You can jump into the facebookgroup, speak honest, secure
communication for women.
Go find us over there and justkeep the conversation going.
And remember, if you wanted toget in on the ground floor of my
new book, dance of attachment,which is with the publishing
company that I'm, you know,working with Terry, then you can
join us.
I'm going to drop a link in theshow notes, or you can just go
(42:22):
to danceofattachmentcom, sodanceofattachmentcom will get
you the information you need tosign up for early release.
We can win free books.
You can help me out withreading pre-copies, maybe
helping me to check and makesure I'm writing everything
correctly.
If you want to read a chaptertoo, I have the first four
(42:44):
chapters written.
So, hey, maybe you want to readthe chapter on disorganized
attachment.
If you do, let me know when yousign up to be a part of the
dance circle.
We want to create a communityhere at Speak Honest and really,
really see that healing is aco-collaborative space.
All right, this is why we needcommunity.
In fact, in order to earn asecure attachment, you have to
(43:06):
be able to do it in relationship, and what better way to do it
than with a bunch of otherlike-minded you know,
wackadoodle women that are alltrying to do their best as well.
So come into the Speak Honestcommunity over at Facebook and
join us there.
All right, everyone, I hope youhave a beautiful week.
I will speak with you all nextweek.
Take care, as we wrap uptoday's conversation, always
(43:30):
remember that healing is ajourney, not a destination, and
it is an honor to be a part ofyour healing journey.
If you want to dig deeper intothe topics we covered today, be
sure to head over to our shownotes, where you can find all of
the valuable informationmentioned in today's episode
right there, and please rememberto rate, review and subscribe
if you enjoyed today's podcast.
(43:51):
Your feedback means the worldto us and helps others discover
our podcast.
Until next time, remember tospeak up and speak honest.
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