September 17, 2025 • 42 mins
Think secure attachment means you're calm, confident, and unbothered all the time? Think again. In this powerful coaching call, I sit down with Steph (one of our Relationship Reboot members) to unpack one of the most misunderstood parts of the healing journey: what secure attachment actually feels like. Spoiler alert: it’s not always comfortable. In fact, sometimes it means saying no when you want to say yes, letting go of that savior complex at work, and learning to sit with your own limitations without spiraling into shame.
We dig into how to stop taking on everyone else's stress, why perfectionism keeps you stuck, and what it really looks like to choose yourself. One small boundary at a time.
You might want to listen if:
- You say no... and instantly want to take it back
- You're tired of managing everyone else's emotions just to feel safe
- You keep trying to “fix” people at work (and it’s not working)
- You feel guilty when you can't finish everything on your to-do list
- You're still confused about what secure attachment is supposed to feel like
FIND OUT MORE!
- Apply for FREE Coaching with Jenn
- Join the DANCE CIRCLE - Get updates on Jenn's debut book "Dance of Attachment"
- Join our FREE Community! Speak Honest Facebook Group 🧡
- Become a Relationship Reboot Member and access all you need to become secure.
- Schedule your Free 30 min Attachment Assessment with Jenn Today!
- Watch Jenn on the 🔴 TEDx Stage!
- Download your free Workbook: Dance of Attachment
- Visit www.speak-honest.com to learn more
- Follow Jenn on Instagram: @speak_honest
- Like the episode? Please write a review, your words help others find us!
DISCLAIMER: Speak Honest podcast content is informational, not professional or medical advice. Jenn is an ICF relationship coach, not a licensed therapist. Consult health ...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Speak Honest.
I am your host and certifiedrelationship coach, Jennifer
Noble.
It has been my passion for overa decade to help women like you
heal what's been holding youback from having the
relationships you deserve.
Are you struggling with arelationship where you can't
seem to voice your emotions,needs and boundaries without
(00:26):
having it blow up in your face?
Then you have found the rightpodcast, my friend.
Get ready for practical tips,empowering truths and honest
conversations.
Now let's dive in.
Hello, ladies, and welcome backto another episode of Speak
Honest.
I am Jen Noble, your go-torelationship coach, and on
today's episode you are gettinga front row seat to a real life
(00:48):
coaching call with Steph.
She has been doing the workinside the Relationship Reboot
program for about five monthsnow, but she had a really
important question and I thoughtthis would be a great
opportunity to bring her ontothe podcast and ask this
question.
She really wanted to know whatdoes secure attachment look like
, or what does secure attachmentfeel like, and, as you're going
to hear in our conversation,those two things very different.
(01:11):
What does it look like and whatdoes it feel like?
Two very different things.
But before we get started, Iwant to remind you that my new
book, Dance of Attachment, iscoming out soon, and if you are
interested in learning more orbeing in behind the scenes or
being a part of the launch squad, then I want you to come and
join the dance circle.
That is where we are hangingout, we are getting together, we
(01:31):
are going to support this book,Dance of Attachment.
You can go todanceofattachmentcom to sign up
to be a part of the dance circle.
I would love to have you Listen.
If you've been listening toSpeak Honest for a while and
you've thought, oh, you Listen.
If you've been listening toSpeak Honest for a while and
you've thought, oh, how could Isupport Jen and all that she's
doing, but you aren't able tojoin the program and you haven't
done any coaching yet.
This is a time where you canreally support Speak Honest and
(01:53):
all that it is that we're doinghere.
Come and join the dance circle,Be a part of the early launch
crew.
You're going to get sneak peeks, You're going to help me choose
the book cover, help me writeadvanced reviews and just help
me get the word out there.
Oh, it would just mean so much.
This is my baby.
I'm so proud of this book,Dance of Attachment.
I can't wait to get it out intoall of your hands.
So please join us atdanceofattachmentcom and come
(02:14):
join the dance circle.
But as you're listening to myconversation with Steph, I want
you to think about this whatdoes secure attachment actually
feel like, Not just in theory.
What does secure attachmentactually feel like?
Not just in theory, not in someperfect trigger-free state, but
in your body, in real time,Maybe at work, in your
relationships, when you'resaying no, trying to set those
(02:34):
boundaries, trying not to fixsomeone else's stress, to feel
okay yourself?
You're going to hear more aboutthat later and I want you to
see.
Do you nod along with what youhear Steph is saying?
Because we are diving into howto stop being the savior, how to
honor your limits and how tostop dragging a caterpillar
(02:55):
trail full of unfinished to-dosbehind you.
And if that doesn't make anysense yet, it's because you need
to listen to the coaching call.
So I hope you enjoy myconversation with Steph.
Hi, Steph, I'm so glad that youare on the show.
How can I help?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Well, in the Relationship Reboot program
which I'm participating in.
I've been in for about fivemonths now and that's right yeah
.
The goal is to work towardssecure attachment over time.
I think that I have, andprobably a lot of us have, this
perception that people who aresecurely attached, or when we
eventually achieve secureattachment in some or all areas
(03:36):
of our life, then it's gonnafeel we're gonna feel good all
the time.
Yes, I wanted to ask you mymain question for you today is
what does secure attachment feellike in terms of emotions and
what we're saying to ourselvesinside, and also what does it
look like in terms of actionsand behavior?
(03:56):
And so I thought maybe we couldgo through just a few different
scenarios from my life and justkind of talk through what a
securely attached person couldbe feeling inside and what a
secure response might look likeon the outside.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So, if I'm hearing you correctly, it's really kind
of a interest and curiosity oflike what does secure attachment
actually feel like?
Like what is it supposed tolook like inside?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yes, because I think I have this misconception that
when I'm, as I'm working towards, securely attached, then I will
be more and more confident,which I hope does happen.
But yes, I think I have thisfalse idea that I'll just feel
good about myself all the timeand I'll be able to let
everything roll off my back andnothing will ever bother me.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, I'm so glad you're bringing this up because
this is probably one of the mostcommon misconceptions that I
mean I had myself and I have forother people I mean hearing
from other clients.
So I love this so much.
Do you want to jump in with ascenario or do you want me to
talk on it?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
first at all, I think it would be most helpful for me
to hear specific examples, andthen that would help me talk
through some scenarios that I'vebeen wanting Would you like me
to speak through some examplesthat I know of other clients and
myself, or speak through anexample of something you've been
through Well?
I brought some examples with me, but if you have specific
examples you're thinking of, Ithink that would be helpful too.
(05:18):
Yeah, so let me think so.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
First and foremost, absolutely secure attachment is
about securely attaching to thepeople within your life, not
about never feeling bad again.
So I love this so much becausethe point here is to really
dictate that secure attachmentis about accepting the negative
parts in our life along with thepositive, and two things that I
(05:41):
see happen often with secureattachment is people will often
feel like, oh, I'm angry at thisperson, thus I'm not securely
reacting, or I have to set aboundary and I have to say no
around this person, which, as Isay, that sounds silly, but it
is what happens deep down, andI'll explain myself in one
second.
It was something that happenedpersonally in my life that might
help showcase this, but the actof having to say that isn't in
(06:06):
isn't a non-secure attachmentstance.
Basically, it is through thatact that we become more secure.
On the other end, the othermisconception oftentimes with
secure attachment is that we arejust going to love everybody or
be happy all the time or do allof this kind of stuff right.
So, with that said, what secureattachment might actually look
(06:28):
like is having to let go ofrelationships that aren't
serving us anymore and thatcould be really difficult and
hard.
So, for example, I am in anorganization where I really want
to be a part of it.
I want to like volunteer for it.
I want to do all this stuff,but they keep asking a lot from
me.
I want to like volunteer for it, I want to do all this stuff,
but they keep asking a lot fromme, and the hard part of that is
I need to keep saying no tothem.
(06:49):
Now, a part of my non-secureattachment stance that
disorganized attachment thatstill pops up every once in a
while and part of secureattachment is owning and
honoring.
That, weirdly enough, is I hatesaying no to people and I never
realized this so much, but itis weighing me down, steph, I'm
not kidding you.
It's just like hey, can you dothis?
No, hey, can you do this?
(07:09):
No.
And you think like I'm great atsaying no, this is no problem.
And I realized, oh, this islike weighing on me.
So I had to really do some workbehind that.
I had to figure out, okay, whatis happening here.
So here's how this could havegone down.
I just stopped working for them.
That's avoidant, that is.
(07:31):
I don't want to deal with thisshit anymore.
I don't like being the bad guy,so I'm just going to say sorry,
I can't work for you anymore.
That would be avoidant behavior.
I'm very used to that.
That's how I used to always be.
The anxious side is I have to doeverything.
It is that they're asking of mein order to be perceived as
loved and good and honorable atthis organization.
The secure thing for me waslearning how to communicate more
(07:52):
in a way where I could just sayno, but then on the internal
side, needing to be okay withwhat that felt like in my body.
Is that making sense?
I think so.
Okay, and it's okay if you sayno right.
That's secure to tell me noright, but that's what it's
going to start looking like.
So I'm uncomfortable and Iactually still genuinely don't
(08:13):
know if I'm going to continue onwith them, and that's what
secure attachment is.
Secure attachment is aboutlooking at this from all angles,
understanding what's in mostalignment with who I want to be
and what I want to do, movingforward and then asking myself
is that what I need and wantright now?
That, to me, right, there issecure attachment, but with that
(08:34):
comes difficult people,difficult things, difficult
situations, difficultconversations, and that's
probably the part that, infairness, I hate most about
being securely attached is Iactually seem to put myself in
more annoying and difficultsituations now as a securely
attached person than I ever did,because I was great at avoiding
, let me tell you.
(08:54):
But I'm leveling up in lifebecause of that.
So that's the difference.
Now it's like oh, I canactually meet more people, I can
network more, I can make morefriends.
I'm not afraid anymore ofwhat's going to happen because I
know in the moment I can showup for myself.
That's secure attachment.
So talk me through what youheard there and any questions.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Well, I can really relate to the saying no and then
feeling really uncomfortableabout it because I'm moving
towards that right now.
I'm starting to say no more andthen I immediately want to take
it back, or I try to dosomething to make up for the no,
like I offer to do somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Such a good realization.
Right there.
It's like I said no, but I'llgo do like 30 other things to
make up for it.
Right, that's where we thinkwe're good at saying no, but
we're not yet.
Beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Right, or it feels so uncomfortable and I have to
spend the next few hours tryingto convince myself not to take
it back.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yep, yep.
All of that Part of it.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, and the first example I actually had was a
work example where there's a lotof shifting priorities at work
and so I'm working on oneproject and then a new project
might come in that I have toshift to, or a couple of new
projects might come in and wehave to decide whether to say no
or not, and both my coworkerand I we've been really stressed
(10:17):
at work recently, but we handlethe stress very differently,
and so what I find myself doingis trying to be a savior towards
her, like trying to manage herstress and help her be less
stressed out, but that's, ofcourse, not working, and so what
I need to do is just let thatgo and manage my own stress and
(10:40):
say no to what I can't handle,instead of trying to convince
her to say no to what we can'thandle as a team.
Beautiful Can we stop down there, yes, please, because I'm not
actually there yet.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, so right, there is a really beautiful, though,
example of anxious attachment atthe workplace.
It is exactly what you said.
I'm trying to like, be hersavior, I'm trying to manage her
stress.
That is, anxious attachment hasa tendency to be a little bit
enmeshed or codependent, right,we feel like we are responsible
for other people.
So in that moment that would bean anxiously attached thought
(11:15):
process to say, oh, I need tomanage her stress level and then
, like you said, it doesn't workout very well, right, like, it
makes you more stressed out.
It's not helping.
And if anxious attachment hereis needing to manage her stress,
secure attachment here isasking is this an alignment with
, like, who I want to be at work?
(11:35):
Is this making me feelsatisfied and fulfilled or is it
causing me more stress?
And this is why I say all thetime in the program is the
action that we do even now, asyou're asking this question,
like?
What does secure attachmentfeel like?
I really like how you said,feel like and not look like,
because, to be clear, theactions that we do are neither
(11:55):
secure nor insecure.
It is the intent behind it.
So, if you have plenty ofspoons to give for the day and
you want to manage her stressgreat.
Does it make you feel good?
Did you feel fulfilled at theend of the day for doing it?
Then that would be a secureresponse.
But if it's dragging you down,that's the feeling where it's
not secure and it's not inalignment.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Is that tracking?
As I say that, yes, that'sinteresting and I had asked what
it looks like, but I had askedboth questions.
So what does it look like andwhat does it feel like?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So I think, oh, I must have just like bypassed the
look.
Then I only wrote down what itfeels like so great.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I had a sense that it might be different.
Those things might be different.
Yes, but that's interestingthat you say that the action
itself is not actually thesecure part.
So one day I could try to takeon some extra work, and the next
day I could try to take on someextra work and the next day I
could say no, and both those twothings might be secure, that's
it.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
That's it You've got.
That was your question.
You're healed.
This is great.
No, but that's exactly it.
It depends on you in the moment,which is also why, like when
you say, me and my coworker, wehave different ways that we
handle stress.
Like, truly, you do, and thisis why it helps to understand
that who we are is who we areand who they are is who they are
, because maybe she's fine.
(13:09):
Like, some people vent a lotbut, like truly, inside they're
fine.
They just like to externallyvent, but inside they're fine,
whereas other ones of us, whenwe're venting out loud, it's
because we're a steamboat inside.
So what do you think happens inthat moment?
When we see someone vent?
We think, oh, they're pissedinside, they can't handle this.
I need to help them.
But really they're fine inside,feeling wise.
(13:32):
They're like I'm good, I justlike to vent.
That's the difference of like,why we let other people kind of
have their feelings as well andhave their emotions and their
reactions to whatever it is theyneed to do.
It could be secure for them.
That's a hard part for somepeople to understand.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, and I also see the consequences of my actions.
If I say that I don't have timeto do something, then my
coworker will do it on top ofeverything else, and so then I
start to feel bad.
Yes, I added work and I see myco-worker is stressed and the
(14:07):
additional workload that I couldbe helping with.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
But you set the boundary not to do it and she
did it instead.
But and I know you'll know thisanswer in this scenario that's
her choice, isn't it?
Yeah, maybe she likes feeling alittle bit stressed out.
Maybe it fills up what we knowabout needs buckets now and all
that stuff, so maybe it'sfilling up her contribution
needs so much where you thinkshe's stressed out, but
internally she's like fulfilled.
(14:32):
So we're going to let her.
That's the power.
Secure attachment is reallyalmost just detaching from the
expectations and ideals of whatwe think other people should or
shouldn't be doing around us,and it is just allowing people
to live their best lives whilewe live our best lives.
And the world has gotten inthis weird kind of conundrum of
(14:52):
like constantly almost policingeach other.
If that makes any sense, likewell, you can't do that and you
can't do that, and you can't saythis and you can't say that,
but it's still coming from aplace of like that makes me
uncomfortable, so you must stop.
But secure attachment is sayingI'm okay if I'm uncomfortable,
I'll take care of it.
I know who's in control.
It's me.
I control what I need tocontrol and I'm okay if
(15:13):
something's out of controlbecause I trust I'll be able to
take care of it later.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So I guess my question there is what, if I am
pretty sure that the otherperson is not comfortable in
living their best life?
Great question.
In this example, I see thatshe's stressed.
I see that she's getting sickall the time.
I see that she tells me thatshe's overwhelmed.
So, even though I can't reallyknow what's going on inside her
(15:41):
head, there are a lot of signsthat she is stressed, not living
her best life.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And you might be right, and also that's on her to
figure out.
Now, if she comes to you andsays, hey, steph, can you help
me with this, you can help her,or you can say I can't, but I
really don't want you doing iteither.
Hon, like, right, you could saythat You'd be like I need to
say no to this, but you have topromise me, if I say no, I need
you to not do it either.
(16:09):
Right, you can be playful withit, you can talk to her about it
, but in the end it has to beher decision.
That's part of secureattachment is just trusting in
other people, because what is itthat's causing you inside to
feel like you need to fix her?
Like what's going on in therefor you?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Sometimes I feel like I can convince her, or
sometimes I feel like maybe shejust needs someone to tell her
that it's okay that she can takea day off or take an ablution.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, and how would that help her taking a day off
or taking a vacation?
How would that help you?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
If she were less stressed, I think I would feel
less stressed Bam.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Do you see what's happening there?
Just to be very clear, I'mgoing to challenge us here, like
, really call it what it is.
I've worked with you longenough where I, you, know we're
good here.
Right, I could be really honest.
Or defendancy, yes, and youwanting her to be less stressed
has nothing to do with her.
It's a selfish motive for youto feel less stressed, and I say
(17:07):
selfish with love, please, butwe need to be honest about this
shit.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not all like sunshines anddaisies where it's like, oh, I
just really want to make surethey're better, like no, you
don't.
You want to be less stressed,so you need her to chill the
fuck out, and that's okay.
But do you see how?
Again, that's an anxiousattachment thought process of if
I can control my externalsources, then I am safe.
(17:29):
Secure attachment states.
I can control my internalforces to stay safe.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So when she gets stressed out, I get stressed out
, yes, and my trying to help herbe less stressed out in order
to control my stress doesn'twork.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Right, it doesn't work and also it's a disservice
to her.
Uh-huh Right, it's forcing herto feel something she's not
ready to feel yet, just becauseyou're uncomfortable I'm saying
that in an honest way, I hopeyou know like no blame, no fault
, anything, because what I wantus to get clear on is where it's
coming from.
It's still just a way of tryingto keep ourselves safe.
Instead, what if we found a wayfor you to not be stressed out
(18:11):
about her feelings, regardlessof how she feels?
That's secure attachment.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Okay, so the goal is to be able to see her be
stressed out and not be stressedout myself.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yes, that's the goal right there.
That's secure attachment.
You can see someone beingstressed out, you can feel for
them, you can be empathetictowards them, but you don't take
it on.
There's a big differencebetween being empathetic or a
highly sensitive person and justbeing codependent.
That is just enmeshment, that'scodependency and it's built up
from your childhood and yourlife and we know where all this
(18:43):
comes from.
But at the same time, it'sstill just there sometimes and
so we have to work hard to belike.
That is hers to handle and Itrust her.
She needs to go through herstory.
However it is, she needs to goand I am going to manage my
stress level over here with myboundaries.
Right In the program we talk alot about time boundaries,
(19:05):
mental boundaries, physicalboundaries and emotional
boundaries and all no timewhatever.
But we talk about the differenttypes of boundaries because the
most important one that peoplereally struggle with is that
kind of mental, emotionalboundary where we hold onto it.
We're processing her stress forher, Whereas we need to let
that go.
That is secure attachment.
It's also very difficult.
(19:26):
Yes, that's where the woundwork comes in, because I think
there's a meaning there.
Somewhere I do.
I think there is an attachmentwound that has attached to this
belief that we need to stop herstress.
So if we kept digging deeper,we'd find it.
We heal that, we plug it up andthen we're able to figure out
what is it that we need.
(19:46):
That's the work.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, it's probably one of the maybe I am.
I have to be perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, I was thinking I wonder if it's like I am bad
or something in terms of like,oh, if I don't do the work, then
she has to do it.
Then what if she comes to youone day and is like, Steph, you
don't do anything around here?
Then you might feel like, oh,I'm bad, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I am bad.
I don't want to get in trouble.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, Do you ever have like I am lazy or I'm
useless or anything like that?
Pop up for you.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
No, I don't have a lot of that.
I have no agency, so maybe Ifeel like I always have to say
yes because I don't feel like Ihave any agency.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Okay, yeah, it'd be interesting to see there could
also just be a bodily functionas well, of like, if she's
stressed out, let's say thiscomes back from childhood.
Again, no fault to your family,it's just life.
But let's say, back in the day,when your family was stressed
out, it affected you.
They were either, you know,harsh to you or mean to you,
maybe ignored you.
So there's a part of your body,right, your neural pathways
(20:46):
have fired and wired together insuch a way that when someone
else in your vicinity isstressed out, it's unsafe to you
.
So a nice, simple way to dothis would be like she's
stressed out and just like aconstant kind of somatic
repetition of saying I am safein her stress.
I'm safe in her stress.
Right, it's like an affirmation, but we've talked about those,
right, you need to find thatevidence.
I am safe in her stress.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What suggestions do you have for?
So there have been many, manytimes in the past that new
projects came in and I didn'tsay no, and so now we have this
backlog and it's a literalbacklog.
We have the literal backlog oftons of projects that are half
finished, we're just behind onor we just haven't worked on in
(21:34):
a long time, that are justwaiting to be worked on, and
also kind of this emotionalbacklog of yeah, yeah, well, I
can't, I don't, I don't know.
Do I just go to work tomorrowand try to not be stressed
anymore?
Or how do you haverecommendations for kind of
cleaning up the backlog of themany times that I didn't set the
(21:55):
boundary?
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, that's just gonna.
That's a really great questionthat I have to be honest, I
don't know if I have a perfectanswer for right now Not that I
ever have a perfect answer, butyou know what I mean.
More so, what I would beinterested in moving forward is
checking in with how you feellike so what you didn't set the
boundaries back then, but whatis happening now and tomorrow
(22:18):
that you can affect.
That's what I would beinterested in.
Is that making sense when I saythat, because I'll reword it if
it's not.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think so.
So instead of trying to cleareverything out, I just start now
.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, and you start observing and you're wondering
what has held you back in thebeginning from being able to do
this in the first place, andyou're going to just everything
in life, and this is part ofthat secure attachment.
Everything in life is anexperiment, everything is just
practice, and so you had a lotof practice and now you have a
little bit more understanding,some more tools to have, and
(22:51):
you're going to go back intowork tomorrow and you're going
to figure out okay, what is itthat I actually want at this job
?
How do I want to feel?
Is this how I want to feel?
Understanding?
How do I want to feel?
How do I want my body to feelwhen I'm at work?
That takes maybe one or twoweeks to just observe.
(23:13):
Oh, I hate it.
When my boss walks in, I gettense, I freak out, even opening
up my email, because as soon asI do, or I hear that ping, my
whole body somatically goes likeall these, like little somatic
things, and so we just workthrough them slowly but surely,
and then we check in withourselves what can I control
here and what do I need?
(23:35):
Moving forward and becomingearned secure.
Right, it can take one to fouryears to become earned, secure.
So you and I have workedtogether for what like five
months, so we got a little bitof time left.
You know, as you're still going, we're just getting started.
That's the fun part about this,like, and that's also the hard
part.
There's so many people outthere that'll say things like oh
(23:56):
, you could become, you know,securely attached within 90 days
or whatnot.
But like, unfortunately, theresearch just shows it takes
repetition, repetition.
Like you're going to have tofuck up a whole ton, steph.
I'm so sorry to have to breakit to you, but part of that is
also the secure attachment wayof knowing like, okay, this is
it.
Like another example from mylife I got in a disagreement, if
you will, with somebodyrecently and it was
(24:18):
uncomfortable, af right, like itwas.
I can't remember the last timeanyone has spoken to me this way
To literally my body, my brain,my mouth just came out like why
are you acting this way?
It's like what I said to thisperson and probably not the best
thing to have actually said.
I think it made them a littlebit more heated, shocker, but it
(24:41):
was like a genuine responsethat came out of me in that
moment, because I couldn'tbelieve that they were just
attacking me this way.
I didn't ask for any of thisfeedback.
I don't understand what's goingon right now.
This is not where I wasexpecting this to go, and so was
I perfect in that moment?
No, was I triggered?
Yes, did my lips start to shake?
Absolutely, was I confused ashell?
Yeah, did I get off of thatcall?
And I was just like I need togo punch a wall.
(25:02):
What is going on right now?
Do you hear those feelingsinside of me?
That's real, that's secure.
I'm listening to those feelings, I'm honoring them.
I knew, because I've done allthe work, I need to go spend 20
minutes walking outsideprocessing this in my brain, not
numbing it.
What I wanted to do was go graba white claw and go scroll
(25:24):
TikTok, you know what I mean.
And I was like hold up, I havedifferent tools.
Now I also wanted to like callup the rest of the people that
know him and be like do you knowwhat I mean?
Like just completely gossip andvent.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I was like is that an alignment with who I want to be
right now?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And I had to check in .
No, that's not who I am.
So I went on a walk, Iprocessed and then when my
husband came home, I vented likefor like an hour to him and I
was like that's all securebehavior, because I saw all my
flaws in that conversation withhim.
I saw where I could have been abetter communicator, but I was
also really proud of myself forhow I acted and where I stood my
(25:59):
ground and the fact that I waseven there and the feelings that
I have inside of me taught mewhat I don't want from this
person in the future.
So that's where you see all ofthose big, big, big feelings
happening.
But through it all, I learnedhow to have a difficult
conversation with someone.
I learned the ways in which Ididn't do perfect, but I didn't
(26:19):
shame myself for them, if Icould say, if that's one thing,
secure attachment is not shame.
It is messing up and beingproud of yourself in the mess,
but that's it I like that it'sjust a powerful moment to like
get to that place because itallows you to be better.
(26:42):
Truly, it allows me to be abetter communicator, because I
can look at that stuff and belike well, I definitely should
not have done that, but like,still give myself like a high
five for trying.
Do you feel the energy comingoff of me?
It's still wild to me, like,honestly, I could even be like I
can't believe I had thatconversation with this person
Like, and I'm still debating tothis day right now Do I want to
(27:04):
go back into that organizationor not?
Secure attachment means beingokay, being confused.
I don't have to make thatdecision yet.
I have a couple more weeksstill and I don't know if my
body is calm enough yet to makethat decision, so I'm going to
wait.
That's secure.
So when you go into work thisweek, start noticing what.
(27:25):
Do you want things to bedifferent?
What triggers you?
What doesn't trigger you?
What could you need in thesemoments?
What wounds could we work onfirst before you go and
communicate?
And what can you control?
Because maybe you're like yes,I need my boss to stop being
such an asshole, or somethinglike that.
I have no idea what your bossis like, but like also.
That's probably not going tohappen.
You know like they are, whothey are.
So what can we do?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, I was thinking more about this backlog.
I wonder if we could try tofigure out what limited beliefs
or wounds are behind the backlog, because I tend to do this,
that any sort of idea that comesup, thought, project, thing I
want to do, then I write it downand then I can't let it go.
I feel like I have to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Okay, so I want to work on letting go of some of
these things, because I don'tthink we have to do all the
projects that are in the backlog.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Okay, perfect, that's great.
Because without being familiarwith what the backlog is, I
guess the best thing I could sayis you got to go look at your
priorities and I say keep thebacklog if that feels right to
you, but check in with yourpriorities.
So when you say you kind ofcan't let go of it, do you know
what's happening in your body orwhat meaning you're making it?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
yet I think it goes back to the perfectionism of
needing to finish everythingokay and needing to follow
through on everything.
Maybe it's connected to if Idon't finish every project, then
I will have failed because Ididn't follow through if I don't
finish every project, then Iwould have failed.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Is that true?
No, okay.
So your work in this moment isa constant reminder of that.
It's just, oh no, you didn'tfail, sweetheart.
You're trying your best.
I'm proud of you for making alist, but we don't need to
finish them right now.
Right, it's talking to yourselfin this like self-compassionate
way to be like, because what'sthe alternative?
(29:07):
You don't make lists, but thenyou don't have any goals or
intentions either of what youwant to work towards, right?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Right, and I've been trying to make less lists
because this is what I like Imake a list and then I relax.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yes, and the interesting part is I never
really wanted you to get rid ofthe list completely, because
they do help you, guide you.
But the resistance is happeningis when you don't complete a
list, you feel like a failure.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Right, and I also make unreasonable lists.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Don't complete a list you feel like a failure Right,
and I also make unreasonablelists.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Fair.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Okay, yes, so if we have that right and again, but
making an unreasonable list isnot a problem if there's no
failure feeling after not, youknow, like I mean, you could
have like a bucket list of whatyou want to do but, like you
know, go to Tahiti or something,but if you don't do it, like
most people don't care.
So it's like, ah, so what'sactually happening here?
The resistance, the kind ofnon-secure thing happening is
the shame that comes up when youdon't complete something, or
(30:02):
kind of having this weight onyou of these lists.
So what I might do is find aword or a phrase or some sort of
feeling in your body, as wewould do with somatic repetition
, and figure out a way to startrewiring this so you are safe
with your lists being incomplete.
You and I could do some work onthe side with this, but what
(30:23):
this might look like is doingsome sort of somatic
experiencing.
Let's say it's visual.
Right now.
Something's coming up for me,but let's say it's visual, and
what I picture right now is allof these lists, all of these
tasks, like almost sitting onyour shoulder, just constantly
weighing you down.
It's like you come up with acool new idea, but unfortunately
it just gets piled up, piled up, piled up, piled up.
(30:45):
And in those moments, if you'refeeling that big somatic maybe
it's heaviness in your shoulder,it's like dropping in your
stomach.
Whatever it looks like for you,we would somatic through that,
we would do a somatic processingwhere we would remove the
weight off your shoulders andyou would be rewiring your brain
in that moment, your neuralpathways, to showcase that you
(31:05):
are safe to have your lists,that you're safe to have your
fun ideas.
Your ideas are amazing.
I don't want to like get rid ofthat right.
That seems like that's analignment with who you are,
these amazing fun ideas.
What's not an alignment is therumination that happens from not
doing it.
Is that resonating?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, I'm picturing.
I got a somatic picture in myhead which is each item on the
list is like a block and all theblocks are tied together and
they're dragging behind me likea long caterpillar behind me.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yes, what can we do?
Let's do it right now.
What can we do with thoseblocks?
Because they're they'rebeautiful and they're wonderful.
We want to honor them, but it'shurting you right now.
So we need to set a boundarywith your subconscious mind, so
somatically, visually, in yourimagination.
How can we release some ofthose blocks?
Where can we put them sothey're safe to come back to
(31:58):
later?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I could cut the strings between them and pile
them up along the wall.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, yeah, you could like make them.
Do you want to like have like anice little shelving unit so
for your trinkets?
Maybe there's like, yeah, maybethere's like little glass doors
so they don't get dusty?
You'll get back to them whenyou can.
They're all beautiful,wonderful ideas.
We don't need to hold onto themevery second of the day.
We can come back to themwhenever we want.
You have freedom to do that.
(32:26):
So when you're at work and it'scoming up again because
unfortunately this oneconversation with me, as much as
I would love to, is not goingto heal your brain this is going
to take at least 20 to 40 times.
I know I'm sorry of doing thiswork, but picture this now.
You know, maybe for just likethe next month, we're coming up
(32:47):
on August soon.
So, like all of August lookslike you having to take a moment
to yourself when you start tofeel the weight of those blocks
hanging behind you.
If you could take a minute outof your day, you could go to the
bathroom, you could go for awalk, but instead of scrolling
or like numbing in other ways,if you could take some time to
(33:10):
just release those blocks andput them up on the shelf, what
you've just taught your body is,you're safe, and that is just
as powerful as any form ofsomatic repetition.
If you want to take it up thenext level, do it at nighttime,
when you're falling asleep atnight, picture the blocks.
Think about which blocks are onyou from that day this one,
this one, this one, this one,this one.
(33:30):
Think about each one.
If you want, give them eachattention and say you are so
special and precious to me.
Thank you for this great idea.
I'm going to put you up here inthis really special place and
that could just teach your bodylike.
These are all important andspecial.
Just if we let them all tie usdown, we're never going to get
anything done.
That's the cost of that andthat's why it's not in alignment
with you.
If you had all these reallygreat ideas and they weren't
(33:53):
holding you down, then great,but there's nothing wrong if it
is.
Does that kind of make sense?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, I like it.
I like the visualization.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
That's one more thing .
Secure attachment is honoringour own limitations.
That's all this episode isgoing to be Me saying secure
attachment is like a hundredtimes.
But like is like a hundredtimes.
But like it is honoring ourlimitations, not shaming them.
Do I wish I was the type ofperson that could go to yoga
five days a week and, you know,run a marathon and like, look
(34:24):
like really cute while I'mjogging, you know, with my
little Stanley, like I sometimeshave that desire.
Sure, like you know, I couldtell it's my golden shadow,
cause when I see other womendoing it, I'm like I want to be
like that and that's okay tohave that as my goal and my
intention.
But secure attachment ishonoring my limitations.
I have a lot of pain.
My knee is killing me right now.
I could look at that knee andbe like you.
(34:45):
Mother effer, how dare you holdme back from the woman I could
be?
Do you hear that energy thatlike that holds you down?
That kind of energy does itjust does Versus.
Like you know what, nhi, you'redoing the best you can.
I'll take care of you today,we'll walk a little bit around
the block and we'll see what wecan do tomorrow.
These are my limitations.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
They are what they are.
I think that will be reallyhelpful when trying to remind
myself that I need to rest also.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
God, yeah, if I could just never sleep and just like
robotically keep going, I couldrun the world.
Why?
Why must I rest to eat andsleep?
This stupid body?
Come on, I'm on a roll here.
I know I feel that that kind ofstuff right there is where it's
at and it's actually surprisingwhere you can go once you honor
(35:37):
your limitations and how muchmore effort and abilities that
you actually have.
But again, to be clear, andI'll wrap us up here a little
bit, but to be clear, we are notdoing this stuff to stop being
exhausted.
I don't know if that makessense.
Let me try it again.
The reason why here, if we aretrying to rest and trying to
(36:04):
love ourselves and do all thisstuff in order for us to be
better, then we're kind of justreinforcing the belief that
we're not good enough.
Still, do you hear that and Iknow that's like a really like
wrapped around, whacked outthing to try to explain, but I
usually explain it like this Ifyou give your toddler attention
with the mere intention ofgetting them to shut up, they're
(36:24):
going to sense that.
They're going to know you don'treally want to give them
attention right now.
They're going to know.
You're just like quickly givingthem some attention, then going
back to your job.
To truly give someone attentionis to give them your attention.
It's to stop what you're doingand love on your toddler, love
on your baby or love on yourpartner, your family, whoever it
is or yourself To love on youenough to give you that
(36:46):
attention you needed, not toshut yourself up, not to fix
yourself, because you're notbroken.
It's to truly love you.
But with that, when we do it, itdoes tend to work.
It tends to ease things up, ittends to ease the pain, it tends
to ease the frustration and theresentment and all of that
(37:08):
stuff.
It's just if we go into it withthe intention of stopping it,
it just doesn't seem to work.
That's how I want to end us.
So that's really, really clear.
Do the work because you loveyourself, not because you think
you're broken.
And then somehow you come outon the other side realizing like
, oh, okay, here I am, I couldhave this, I could mess up and
(37:29):
I'll be okay, all right, anylast minute thoughts as we're
wrapping up here.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
The example with the toddler you gave.
I had never thought of turningthat back on myself.
Yay, give it some attention,just to shut them up.
If I give myself attention, Ido that a lot with eating, like,
oh, let me just put somethingin my stomach so that it stops
being hungry.
Yes, then I eat it so fastbecause I'm trying to get to the
(37:54):
next thing, that I'm stillhungry, because I don't digest
anything and I feel sick.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Oh my God, that's the best.
Yes, your own analogy isperfect.
That's exactly it.
Yeah, it's taking time.
It's almost kind of likeslowing down a little bit I
think people tell you this a lotbut like, if you can slow down,
weirdly you speed up.
It's like the more I'm slowingdown, that's how I sense in
myself.
(38:22):
I'm out of whack is I'm startingto feel burnt out and something
doesn't feel right.
And you know all these thingsare going on and I realized whoa
and that comes with secureattachment knowing my body now,
listening to my feelings,understanding what's going on,
and not shoving food down mythroat, which I definitely did,
though, today.
Just to be very clear, I was onour group chat earlier today
shoving yogurt down my throat,as we're all talking like,
because I had not a time to eattoday.
See, I'm not perfect and Icheck in with my body.
(38:44):
I didn't like that.
So next Tuesday I'm going toblock time off of my schedule to
eat before group.
Do you see how I learned fromthat lesson?
My schedule to eat before group.
Do you see how I learned fromthat lesson?
Didn't shame it, I learned fromit.
That is secure attachment, allright.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday and for being vulnerable,
and I will see you at our nextgroup session.
Is there anything else you wantto say before we finish up?
(39:04):
Just that.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I've been feeling so much better with working through
the modules in the relationshipreboot program.
I was on the phone with mysister the other day and I tried
to walk through the wholeprogram with her to help her
feel better about something.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Did it work?
Or was she like what is this?
Well, you know what?
That's going to be good becausewhen the book comes out, I
think I'm able to actuallycondense it slightly.
So I put the whole program inthe book at the end and I cannot
wait for you guys to read it,because this is what you can
actually give to someone likeyour sister now and be like
don't listen to me, just go readthis.
So, yeah, it's coming out acouple months.
(39:44):
I'm so excited.
But, yes, that is perfect.
That is where it will work.
Yeah, because there's a lot inthere.
So I'm so glad it's helping.
You are such a delight to havein the program.
Truly mean it.
You work so hard to work onthese parts of yourself and you
can see you doing the work,coming in, putting in the
homework, doing it all and I amso proud of you Well.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Thank you, Jen, and congratulations on the book.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Thank you so much.
All right, well, I will speakwith you tomorrow or next time
at During Group and I will talkto you later.
All right, steph, thank you,bye, bye, all right, great,
great coaching call with Steph.
But, like, honestly, how manytimes did I actually say secure
attachment is?
If anyone wants to count thoseup and send it to me, that would
(40:32):
be great.
But truly, it was such a greatconversation because it's a
question that I get a lot.
You know, it's one thing to heal, but what does secure
attachment actually feel like?
That's the important part to benoticing, because secure
attachment, it's not perfection,it's not constant calm, it's
not turning into some boundarysetting robot that never has
(40:52):
feelings and lets everythingwash over their shoulders.
It's noticing your body,honoring your limits, saying no
even when it makes you squirm.
It's about learning how to letgo of stress that doesn't belong
to you.
And if you're nodding along tothe conversation I was having
with steph and you're noddingalong to the conversation I was
(41:12):
having with Steph and you'renodding along right now to me,
then I want you to know thatyou're not alone.
This is what this work is allabout, and if you want a more
supportive system, then come andjoin us in our free Facebook
community.
Speak honest, secure attachmentand confident communication for
women.
We are over in there.
We will keep this conversationgoing on in that Facebook group
and I hope to see you there.
(41:33):
I hope you all have a beautifulweek.
Speak with you next time.
Take care, as we wrap uptoday's conversation, always
remember that healing is ajourney, not a destination, and
it is an honor to be a part ofyour healing journey.
If you want to dig deeper intothe topics we covered today, be
(41:54):
sure to head over to our shownotes, where you can find all of
the valuable informationmentioned in today's episode
right there.
And please remember to rate,review and subscribe if you
enjoyed today's podcast.
Your feedback means the worldto us and helps others discover
our podcast.
Until next time, remember tospeak up and speak honest.
Hello and welcome to Speak Honest.
I am your host and certifiedrelationship coach, Jennifer
Noble.
It has been my passion for overa decade to help women like you
heal what's been holding youback from having the
relationships you deserve.
Are you struggling with arelationship where you can't
seem to voice your emotions,needs and boundaries without
(00:26):
having it blow up in your face?
Then you have found the rightpodcast, my friend.
Get ready for practical tips,empowering truths and honest
conversations.
Now let's dive in.
Hello, ladies, and welcome backto another episode of Speak
Honest.
I am Jen Noble, your go-torelationship coach, and on
today's episode you are gettinga front row seat to a real life
(00:48):
coaching call with Steph.
She has been doing the workinside the Relationship Reboot
program for about five monthsnow, but she had a really
important question and I thoughtthis would be a great
opportunity to bring her ontothe podcast and ask this
question.
She really wanted to know whatdoes secure attachment look like
, or what does secure attachmentfeel like, and, as you're going
to hear in our conversation,those two things very different.
(01:11):
What does it look like and whatdoes it feel like?
Two very different things.
But before we get started, Iwant to remind you that my new
book, Dance of Attachment, iscoming out soon, and if you are
interested in learning more orbeing in behind the scenes or
being a part of the launch squad, then I want you to come and
join the dance circle.
That is where we are hangingout, we are getting together, we
(01:31):
are going to support this book,Dance of Attachment.
You can go todanceofattachmentcom to sign up
to be a part of the dance circle.
I would love to have you Listen.
If you've been listening toSpeak Honest for a while and
you've thought, oh, you Listen.
If you've been listening toSpeak Honest for a while and
you've thought, oh, how could Isupport Jen and all that she's
doing, but you aren't able tojoin the program and you haven't
done any coaching yet.
This is a time where you canreally support Speak Honest and
(01:53):
all that it is that we're doinghere.
Come and join the dance circle,Be a part of the early launch
crew.
You're going to get sneak peeks, You're going to help me choose
the book cover, help me writeadvanced reviews and just help
me get the word out there.
Oh, it would just mean so much.
This is my baby.
I'm so proud of this book,Dance of Attachment.
I can't wait to get it out intoall of your hands.
So please join us atdanceofattachmentcom and come
(02:14):
join the dance circle.
But as you're listening to myconversation with Steph, I want
you to think about this whatdoes secure attachment actually
feel like, Not just in theory.
What does secure attachmentactually feel like?
Not just in theory, not in someperfect trigger-free state, but
in your body, in real time,Maybe at work, in your
relationships, when you'resaying no, trying to set those
(02:34):
boundaries, trying not to fixsomeone else's stress, to feel
okay yourself?
You're going to hear more aboutthat later and I want you to
see.
Do you nod along with what youhear Steph is saying?
Because we are diving into howto stop being the savior, how to
honor your limits and how tostop dragging a caterpillar
(02:55):
trail full of unfinished to-dosbehind you.
And if that doesn't make anysense yet, it's because you need
to listen to the coaching call.
So I hope you enjoy myconversation with Steph.
Hi, Steph, I'm so glad that youare on the show.
How can I help?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Well, in the Relationship Reboot program
which I'm participating in.
I've been in for about fivemonths now and that's right yeah
.
The goal is to work towardssecure attachment over time.
I think that I have, andprobably a lot of us have, this
perception that people who aresecurely attached, or when we
eventually achieve secureattachment in some or all areas
(03:36):
of our life, then it's gonnafeel we're gonna feel good all
the time.
Yes, I wanted to ask you mymain question for you today is
what does secure attachment feellike in terms of emotions and
what we're saying to ourselvesinside, and also what does it
look like in terms of actionsand behavior?
(03:56):
And so I thought maybe we couldgo through just a few different
scenarios from my life and justkind of talk through what a
securely attached person couldbe feeling inside and what a
secure response might look likeon the outside.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So, if I'm hearing you correctly, it's really kind
of a interest and curiosity oflike what does secure attachment
actually feel like?
Like what is it supposed tolook like inside?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yes, because I think I have this misconception that
when I'm, as I'm working towards, securely attached, then I will
be more and more confident,which I hope does happen.
But yes, I think I have thisfalse idea that I'll just feel
good about myself all the timeand I'll be able to let
everything roll off my back andnothing will ever bother me.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, I'm so glad you're bringing this up because
this is probably one of the mostcommon misconceptions that I
mean I had myself and I have forother people I mean hearing
from other clients.
So I love this so much.
Do you want to jump in with ascenario or do you want me to
talk on it?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
first at all, I think it would be most helpful for me
to hear specific examples, andthen that would help me talk
through some scenarios that I'vebeen wanting Would you like me
to speak through some examplesthat I know of other clients and
myself, or speak through anexample of something you've been
through Well?
I brought some examples with me, but if you have specific
examples you're thinking of, Ithink that would be helpful too.
(05:18):
Yeah, so let me think so.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
First and foremost, absolutely secure attachment is
about securely attaching to thepeople within your life, not
about never feeling bad again.
So I love this so much becausethe point here is to really
dictate that secure attachmentis about accepting the negative
parts in our life along with thepositive, and two things that I
(05:41):
see happen often with secureattachment is people will often
feel like, oh, I'm angry at thisperson, thus I'm not securely
reacting, or I have to set aboundary and I have to say no
around this person, which, as Isay, that sounds silly, but it
is what happens deep down, andI'll explain myself in one
second.
It was something that happenedpersonally in my life that might
help showcase this, but the actof having to say that isn't in
(06:06):
isn't a non-secure attachmentstance.
Basically, it is through thatact that we become more secure.
On the other end, the othermisconception oftentimes with
secure attachment is that we arejust going to love everybody or
be happy all the time or do allof this kind of stuff right.
So, with that said, what secureattachment might actually look
(06:28):
like is having to let go ofrelationships that aren't
serving us anymore and thatcould be really difficult and
hard.
So, for example, I am in anorganization where I really want
to be a part of it.
I want to like volunteer for it.
I want to do all this stuff,but they keep asking a lot from
me.
I want to like volunteer for it, I want to do all this stuff,
but they keep asking a lot fromme, and the hard part of that is
I need to keep saying no tothem.
(06:49):
Now, a part of my non-secureattachment stance that
disorganized attachment thatstill pops up every once in a
while and part of secureattachment is owning and
honoring.
That, weirdly enough, is I hatesaying no to people and I never
realized this so much, but itis weighing me down, steph, I'm
not kidding you.
It's just like hey, can you dothis?
No, hey, can you do this?
(07:09):
No.
And you think like I'm great atsaying no, this is no problem.
And I realized, oh, this islike weighing on me.
So I had to really do some workbehind that.
I had to figure out, okay, whatis happening here.
So here's how this could havegone down.
I just stopped working for them.
That's avoidant, that is.
(07:31):
I don't want to deal with thisshit anymore.
I don't like being the bad guy,so I'm just going to say sorry,
I can't work for you anymore.
That would be avoidant behavior.
I'm very used to that.
That's how I used to always be.
The anxious side is I have to doeverything.
It is that they're asking of mein order to be perceived as
loved and good and honorable atthis organization.
The secure thing for me waslearning how to communicate more
(07:52):
in a way where I could just sayno, but then on the internal
side, needing to be okay withwhat that felt like in my body.
Is that making sense?
I think so.
Okay, and it's okay if you sayno right.
That's secure to tell me noright, but that's what it's
going to start looking like.
So I'm uncomfortable and Iactually still genuinely don't
(08:13):
know if I'm going to continue onwith them, and that's what
secure attachment is.
Secure attachment is aboutlooking at this from all angles,
understanding what's in mostalignment with who I want to be
and what I want to do, movingforward and then asking myself
is that what I need and wantright now?
That, to me, right, there issecure attachment, but with that
(08:34):
comes difficult people,difficult things, difficult
situations, difficultconversations, and that's
probably the part that, infairness, I hate most about
being securely attached is Iactually seem to put myself in
more annoying and difficultsituations now as a securely
attached person than I ever did,because I was great at avoiding
, let me tell you.
(08:54):
But I'm leveling up in lifebecause of that.
So that's the difference.
Now it's like oh, I canactually meet more people, I can
network more, I can make morefriends.
I'm not afraid anymore ofwhat's going to happen because I
know in the moment I can showup for myself.
That's secure attachment.
So talk me through what youheard there and any questions.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Well, I can really relate to the saying no and then
feeling really uncomfortableabout it because I'm moving
towards that right now.
I'm starting to say no more andthen I immediately want to take
it back, or I try to dosomething to make up for the no,
like I offer to do somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Such a good realization.
Right there.
It's like I said no, but I'llgo do like 30 other things to
make up for it.
Right, that's where we thinkwe're good at saying no, but
we're not yet.
Beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Right, or it feels so uncomfortable and I have to
spend the next few hours tryingto convince myself not to take
it back.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yep, yep.
All of that Part of it.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, and the first example I actually had was a
work example where there's a lotof shifting priorities at work
and so I'm working on oneproject and then a new project
might come in that I have toshift to, or a couple of new
projects might come in and wehave to decide whether to say no
or not, and both my coworkerand I we've been really stressed
(10:17):
at work recently, but we handlethe stress very differently,
and so what I find myself doingis trying to be a savior towards
her, like trying to manage herstress and help her be less
stressed out, but that's, ofcourse, not working, and so what
I need to do is just let thatgo and manage my own stress and
(10:40):
say no to what I can't handle,instead of trying to convince
her to say no to what we can'thandle as a team.
Beautiful Can we stop down there, yes, please, because I'm not
actually there yet.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, so right, there is a really beautiful, though,
example of anxious attachment atthe workplace.
It is exactly what you said.
I'm trying to like, be hersavior, I'm trying to manage her
stress.
That is, anxious attachment hasa tendency to be a little bit
enmeshed or codependent, right,we feel like we are responsible
for other people.
So in that moment that would bean anxiously attached thought
(11:15):
process to say, oh, I need tomanage her stress level and then
, like you said, it doesn't workout very well, right, like, it
makes you more stressed out.
It's not helping.
And if anxious attachment hereis needing to manage her stress,
secure attachment here isasking is this an alignment with
, like, who I want to be at work?
(11:35):
Is this making me feelsatisfied and fulfilled or is it
causing me more stress?
And this is why I say all thetime in the program is the
action that we do even now, asyou're asking this question,
like?
What does secure attachmentfeel like?
I really like how you said,feel like and not look like,
because, to be clear, theactions that we do are neither
(11:55):
secure nor insecure.
It is the intent behind it.
So, if you have plenty ofspoons to give for the day and
you want to manage her stressgreat.
Does it make you feel good?
Did you feel fulfilled at theend of the day for doing it?
Then that would be a secureresponse.
But if it's dragging you down,that's the feeling where it's
not secure and it's not inalignment.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Is that tracking?
As I say that, yes, that'sinteresting and I had asked what
it looks like, but I had askedboth questions.
So what does it look like andwhat does it feel like?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So I think, oh, I must have just like bypassed the
look.
Then I only wrote down what itfeels like so great.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I had a sense that it might be different.
Those things might be different.
Yes, but that's interestingthat you say that the action
itself is not actually thesecure part.
So one day I could try to takeon some extra work, and the next
day I could try to take on someextra work and the next day I
could say no, and both those twothings might be secure, that's
it.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
That's it You've got.
That was your question.
You're healed.
This is great.
No, but that's exactly it.
It depends on you in the moment,which is also why, like when
you say, me and my coworker, wehave different ways that we
handle stress.
Like, truly, you do, and thisis why it helps to understand
that who we are is who we areand who they are is who they are
, because maybe she's fine.
(13:09):
Like, some people vent a lotbut, like truly, inside they're
fine.
They just like to externallyvent, but inside they're fine,
whereas other ones of us, whenwe're venting out loud, it's
because we're a steamboat inside.
So what do you think happens inthat moment?
When we see someone vent?
We think, oh, they're pissedinside, they can't handle this.
I need to help them.
But really they're fine inside,feeling wise.
(13:32):
They're like I'm good, I justlike to vent.
That's the difference of like,why we let other people kind of
have their feelings as well andhave their emotions and their
reactions to whatever it is theyneed to do.
It could be secure for them.
That's a hard part for somepeople to understand.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, and I also see the consequences of my actions.
If I say that I don't have timeto do something, then my
coworker will do it on top ofeverything else, and so then I
start to feel bad.
Yes, I added work and I see myco-worker is stressed and the
(14:07):
additional workload that I couldbe helping with.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
But you set the boundary not to do it and she
did it instead.
But and I know you'll know thisanswer in this scenario that's
her choice, isn't it?
Yeah, maybe she likes feeling alittle bit stressed out.
Maybe it fills up what we knowabout needs buckets now and all
that stuff, so maybe it'sfilling up her contribution
needs so much where you thinkshe's stressed out, but
internally she's like fulfilled.
(14:32):
So we're going to let her.
That's the power.
Secure attachment is reallyalmost just detaching from the
expectations and ideals of whatwe think other people should or
shouldn't be doing around us,and it is just allowing people
to live their best lives whilewe live our best lives.
And the world has gotten inthis weird kind of conundrum of
(14:52):
like constantly almost policingeach other.
If that makes any sense, likewell, you can't do that and you
can't do that, and you can't saythis and you can't say that,
but it's still coming from aplace of like that makes me
uncomfortable, so you must stop.
But secure attachment is sayingI'm okay if I'm uncomfortable,
I'll take care of it.
I know who's in control.
It's me.
I control what I need tocontrol and I'm okay if
(15:13):
something's out of controlbecause I trust I'll be able to
take care of it later.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So I guess my question there is what, if I am
pretty sure that the otherperson is not comfortable in
living their best life?
Great question.
In this example, I see thatshe's stressed.
I see that she's getting sickall the time.
I see that she tells me thatshe's overwhelmed.
So, even though I can't reallyknow what's going on inside her
(15:41):
head, there are a lot of signsthat she is stressed, not living
her best life.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And you might be right, and also that's on her to
figure out.
Now, if she comes to you andsays, hey, steph, can you help
me with this, you can help her,or you can say I can't, but I
really don't want you doing iteither.
Hon, like, right, you could saythat You'd be like I need to
say no to this, but you have topromise me, if I say no, I need
you to not do it either.
(16:09):
Right, you can be playful withit, you can talk to her about it
, but in the end it has to beher decision.
That's part of secureattachment is just trusting in
other people, because what is itthat's causing you inside to
feel like you need to fix her?
Like what's going on in therefor you?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Sometimes I feel like I can convince her, or
sometimes I feel like maybe shejust needs someone to tell her
that it's okay that she can takea day off or take an ablution.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, and how would that help her taking a day off
or taking a vacation?
How would that help you?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
If she were less stressed, I think I would feel
less stressed Bam.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Do you see what's happening there?
Just to be very clear, I'mgoing to challenge us here, like
, really call it what it is.
I've worked with you longenough where I, you, know we're
good here.
Right, I could be really honest.
Or defendancy, yes, and youwanting her to be less stressed
has nothing to do with her.
It's a selfish motive for youto feel less stressed, and I say
(17:07):
selfish with love, please, butwe need to be honest about this
shit.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not all like sunshines anddaisies where it's like, oh, I
just really want to make surethey're better, like no, you
don't.
You want to be less stressed,so you need her to chill the
fuck out, and that's okay.
But do you see how?
Again, that's an anxiousattachment thought process of if
I can control my externalsources, then I am safe.
(17:29):
Secure attachment states.
I can control my internalforces to stay safe.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So when she gets stressed out, I get stressed out
, yes, and my trying to help herbe less stressed out in order
to control my stress doesn'twork.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Right, it doesn't work and also it's a disservice
to her.
Uh-huh Right, it's forcing herto feel something she's not
ready to feel yet, just becauseyou're uncomfortable I'm saying
that in an honest way, I hopeyou know like no blame, no fault
, anything, because what I wantus to get clear on is where it's
coming from.
It's still just a way of tryingto keep ourselves safe.
Instead, what if we found a wayfor you to not be stressed out
(18:11):
about her feelings, regardlessof how she feels?
That's secure attachment.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Okay, so the goal is to be able to see her be
stressed out and not be stressedout myself.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yes, that's the goal right there.
That's secure attachment.
You can see someone beingstressed out, you can feel for
them, you can be empathetictowards them, but you don't take
it on.
There's a big differencebetween being empathetic or a
highly sensitive person and justbeing codependent.
That is just enmeshment, that'scodependency and it's built up
from your childhood and yourlife and we know where all this
(18:43):
comes from.
But at the same time, it'sstill just there sometimes and
so we have to work hard to belike.
That is hers to handle and Itrust her.
She needs to go through herstory.
However it is, she needs to goand I am going to manage my
stress level over here with myboundaries.
Right In the program we talk alot about time boundaries,
(19:05):
mental boundaries, physicalboundaries and emotional
boundaries and all no timewhatever.
But we talk about the differenttypes of boundaries because the
most important one that peoplereally struggle with is that
kind of mental, emotionalboundary where we hold onto it.
We're processing her stress forher, Whereas we need to let
that go.
That is secure attachment.
It's also very difficult.
(19:26):
Yes, that's where the woundwork comes in, because I think
there's a meaning there.
Somewhere I do.
I think there is an attachmentwound that has attached to this
belief that we need to stop herstress.
So if we kept digging deeper,we'd find it.
We heal that, we plug it up andthen we're able to figure out
what is it that we need.
(19:46):
That's the work.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, it's probably one of the maybe I am.
I have to be perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, I was thinking I wonder if it's like I am bad
or something in terms of like,oh, if I don't do the work, then
she has to do it.
Then what if she comes to youone day and is like, Steph, you
don't do anything around here?
Then you might feel like, oh,I'm bad, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I am bad.
I don't want to get in trouble.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, Do you ever have like I am lazy or I'm
useless or anything like that?
Pop up for you.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
No, I don't have a lot of that.
I have no agency, so maybe Ifeel like I always have to say
yes because I don't feel like Ihave any agency.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Okay, yeah, it'd be interesting to see there could
also just be a bodily functionas well, of like, if she's
stressed out, let's say thiscomes back from childhood.
Again, no fault to your family,it's just life.
But let's say, back in the day,when your family was stressed
out, it affected you.
They were either, you know,harsh to you or mean to you,
maybe ignored you.
So there's a part of your body,right, your neural pathways
(20:46):
have fired and wired together insuch a way that when someone
else in your vicinity isstressed out, it's unsafe to you
.
So a nice, simple way to dothis would be like she's
stressed out and just like aconstant kind of somatic
repetition of saying I am safein her stress.
I'm safe in her stress.
Right, it's like an affirmation, but we've talked about those,
right, you need to find thatevidence.
I am safe in her stress.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
What suggestions do you have for?
So there have been many, manytimes in the past that new
projects came in and I didn'tsay no, and so now we have this
backlog and it's a literalbacklog.
We have the literal backlog oftons of projects that are half
finished, we're just behind onor we just haven't worked on in
(21:34):
a long time, that are justwaiting to be worked on, and
also kind of this emotionalbacklog of yeah, yeah, well, I
can't, I don't, I don't know.
Do I just go to work tomorrowand try to not be stressed
anymore?
Or how do you haverecommendations for kind of
cleaning up the backlog of themany times that I didn't set the
(21:55):
boundary?
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, that's just gonna.
That's a really great questionthat I have to be honest, I
don't know if I have a perfectanswer for right now Not that I
ever have a perfect answer, butyou know what I mean.
More so, what I would beinterested in moving forward is
checking in with how you feellike so what you didn't set the
boundaries back then, but whatis happening now and tomorrow
(22:18):
that you can affect.
That's what I would beinterested in.
Is that making sense when I saythat, because I'll reword it if
it's not.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think so.
So instead of trying to cleareverything out, I just start now
.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, and you start observing and you're wondering
what has held you back in thebeginning from being able to do
this in the first place, andyou're going to just everything
in life, and this is part ofthat secure attachment.
Everything in life is anexperiment, everything is just
practice, and so you had a lotof practice and now you have a
little bit more understanding,some more tools to have, and
(22:51):
you're going to go back intowork tomorrow and you're going
to figure out okay, what is itthat I actually want at this job
?
How do I want to feel?
Is this how I want to feel?
Understanding?
How do I want to feel?
How do I want my body to feelwhen I'm at work?
That takes maybe one or twoweeks to just observe.
(23:13):
Oh, I hate it.
When my boss walks in, I gettense, I freak out, even opening
up my email, because as soon asI do, or I hear that ping, my
whole body somatically goes likeall these, like little somatic
things, and so we just workthrough them slowly but surely,
and then we check in withourselves what can I control
here and what do I need?
(23:35):
Moving forward and becomingearned secure.
Right, it can take one to fouryears to become earned, secure.
So you and I have workedtogether for what like five
months, so we got a little bitof time left.
You know, as you're still going, we're just getting started.
That's the fun part about this,like, and that's also the hard
part.
There's so many people outthere that'll say things like oh
(23:56):
, you could become, you know,securely attached within 90 days
or whatnot.
But like, unfortunately, theresearch just shows it takes
repetition, repetition.
Like you're going to have tofuck up a whole ton, steph.
I'm so sorry to have to breakit to you, but part of that is
also the secure attachment wayof knowing like, okay, this is
it.
Like another example from mylife I got in a disagreement, if
you will, with somebodyrecently and it was
(24:18):
uncomfortable, af right, like itwas.
I can't remember the last timeanyone has spoken to me this way
To literally my body, my brain,my mouth just came out like why
are you acting this way?
It's like what I said to thisperson and probably not the best
thing to have actually said.
I think it made them a littlebit more heated, shocker, but it
(24:41):
was like a genuine responsethat came out of me in that
moment, because I couldn'tbelieve that they were just
attacking me this way.
I didn't ask for any of thisfeedback.
I don't understand what's goingon right now.
This is not where I wasexpecting this to go, and so was
I perfect in that moment?
No, was I triggered?
Yes, did my lips start to shake?
Absolutely, was I confused ashell?
Yeah, did I get off of thatcall?
And I was just like I need togo punch a wall.
(25:02):
What is going on right now?
Do you hear those feelingsinside of me?
That's real, that's secure.
I'm listening to those feelings, I'm honoring them.
I knew, because I've done allthe work, I need to go spend 20
minutes walking outsideprocessing this in my brain, not
numbing it.
What I wanted to do was go graba white claw and go scroll
(25:24):
TikTok, you know what I mean.
And I was like hold up, I havedifferent tools.
Now I also wanted to like callup the rest of the people that
know him and be like do you knowwhat I mean?
Like just completely gossip andvent.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I was like is that an alignment with who I want to be
right now?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And I had to check in .
No, that's not who I am.
So I went on a walk, Iprocessed and then when my
husband came home, I vented likefor like an hour to him and I
was like that's all securebehavior, because I saw all my
flaws in that conversation withhim.
I saw where I could have been abetter communicator, but I was
also really proud of myself forhow I acted and where I stood my
(25:59):
ground and the fact that I waseven there and the feelings that
I have inside of me taught mewhat I don't want from this
person in the future.
So that's where you see all ofthose big, big, big feelings
happening.
But through it all, I learnedhow to have a difficult
conversation with someone.
I learned the ways in which Ididn't do perfect, but I didn't
(26:19):
shame myself for them, if Icould say, if that's one thing,
secure attachment is not shame.
It is messing up and beingproud of yourself in the mess,
but that's it I like that it'sjust a powerful moment to like
get to that place because itallows you to be better.
(26:42):
Truly, it allows me to be abetter communicator, because I
can look at that stuff and belike well, I definitely should
not have done that, but like,still give myself like a high
five for trying.
Do you feel the energy comingoff of me?
It's still wild to me, like,honestly, I could even be like I
can't believe I had thatconversation with this person
Like, and I'm still debating tothis day right now Do I want to
(27:04):
go back into that organizationor not?
Secure attachment means beingokay, being confused.
I don't have to make thatdecision yet.
I have a couple more weeksstill and I don't know if my
body is calm enough yet to makethat decision, so I'm going to
wait.
That's secure.
So when you go into work thisweek, start noticing what.
(27:25):
Do you want things to bedifferent?
What triggers you?
What doesn't trigger you?
What could you need in thesemoments?
What wounds could we work onfirst before you go and
communicate?
And what can you control?
Because maybe you're like yes,I need my boss to stop being
such an asshole, or somethinglike that.
I have no idea what your bossis like, but like also.
That's probably not going tohappen.
You know like they are, whothey are.
So what can we do?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, I was thinking more about this backlog.
I wonder if we could try tofigure out what limited beliefs
or wounds are behind the backlog, because I tend to do this,
that any sort of idea that comesup, thought, project, thing I
want to do, then I write it downand then I can't let it go.
I feel like I have to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Okay, so I want to work on letting go of some of
these things, because I don'tthink we have to do all the
projects that are in the backlog.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Okay, perfect, that's great.
Because without being familiarwith what the backlog is, I
guess the best thing I could sayis you got to go look at your
priorities and I say keep thebacklog if that feels right to
you, but check in with yourpriorities.
So when you say you kind ofcan't let go of it, do you know
what's happening in your body orwhat meaning you're making it?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
yet I think it goes back to the perfectionism of
needing to finish everythingokay and needing to follow
through on everything.
Maybe it's connected to if Idon't finish every project, then
I will have failed because Ididn't follow through if I don't
finish every project, then Iwould have failed.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Is that true?
No, okay.
So your work in this moment isa constant reminder of that.
It's just, oh no, you didn'tfail, sweetheart.
You're trying your best.
I'm proud of you for making alist, but we don't need to
finish them right now.
Right, it's talking to yourselfin this like self-compassionate
way to be like, because what'sthe alternative?
(29:07):
You don't make lists, but thenyou don't have any goals or
intentions either of what youwant to work towards, right?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Right, and I've been trying to make less lists
because this is what I like Imake a list and then I relax.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yes, and the interesting part is I never
really wanted you to get rid ofthe list completely, because
they do help you, guide you.
But the resistance is happeningis when you don't complete a
list, you feel like a failure.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Right, and I also make unreasonable lists.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Don't complete a list you feel like a failure Right,
and I also make unreasonablelists.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Fair.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Okay, yes, so if we have that right and again, but
making an unreasonable list isnot a problem if there's no
failure feeling after not, youknow, like I mean, you could
have like a bucket list of whatyou want to do but, like you
know, go to Tahiti or something,but if you don't do it, like
most people don't care.
So it's like, ah, so what'sactually happening here?
The resistance, the kind ofnon-secure thing happening is
the shame that comes up when youdon't complete something, or
(30:02):
kind of having this weight onyou of these lists.
So what I might do is find aword or a phrase or some sort of
feeling in your body, as wewould do with somatic repetition
, and figure out a way to startrewiring this so you are safe
with your lists being incomplete.
You and I could do some work onthe side with this, but what
(30:23):
this might look like is doingsome sort of somatic
experiencing.
Let's say it's visual.
Right now.
Something's coming up for me,but let's say it's visual, and
what I picture right now is allof these lists, all of these
tasks, like almost sitting onyour shoulder, just constantly
weighing you down.
It's like you come up with acool new idea, but unfortunately
it just gets piled up, piled up, piled up, piled up.
(30:45):
And in those moments, if you'refeeling that big somatic maybe
it's heaviness in your shoulder,it's like dropping in your
stomach.
Whatever it looks like for you,we would somatic through that,
we would do a somatic processingwhere we would remove the
weight off your shoulders andyou would be rewiring your brain
in that moment, your neuralpathways, to showcase that you
(31:05):
are safe to have your lists,that you're safe to have your
fun ideas.
Your ideas are amazing.
I don't want to like get rid ofthat right.
That seems like that's analignment with who you are,
these amazing fun ideas.
What's not an alignment is therumination that happens from not
doing it.
Is that resonating?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, I'm picturing.
I got a somatic picture in myhead which is each item on the
list is like a block and all theblocks are tied together and
they're dragging behind me likea long caterpillar behind me.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yes, what can we do?
Let's do it right now.
What can we do with thoseblocks?
Because they're they'rebeautiful and they're wonderful.
We want to honor them, but it'shurting you right now.
So we need to set a boundarywith your subconscious mind, so
somatically, visually, in yourimagination.
How can we release some ofthose blocks?
Where can we put them sothey're safe to come back to
(31:58):
later?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I could cut the strings between them and pile
them up along the wall.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, yeah, you could like make them.
Do you want to like have like anice little shelving unit so
for your trinkets?
Maybe there's like, yeah, maybethere's like little glass doors
so they don't get dusty?
You'll get back to them whenyou can.
They're all beautiful,wonderful ideas.
We don't need to hold onto themevery second of the day.
We can come back to themwhenever we want.
You have freedom to do that.
(32:26):
So when you're at work and it'scoming up again because
unfortunately this oneconversation with me, as much as
I would love to, is not goingto heal your brain this is going
to take at least 20 to 40 times.
I know I'm sorry of doing thiswork, but picture this now.
You know, maybe for just likethe next month, we're coming up
(32:47):
on August soon.
So, like all of August lookslike you having to take a moment
to yourself when you start tofeel the weight of those blocks
hanging behind you.
If you could take a minute outof your day, you could go to the
bathroom, you could go for awalk, but instead of scrolling
or like numbing in other ways,if you could take some time to
(33:10):
just release those blocks andput them up on the shelf, what
you've just taught your body is,you're safe, and that is just
as powerful as any form ofsomatic repetition.
If you want to take it up thenext level, do it at nighttime,
when you're falling asleep atnight, picture the blocks.
Think about which blocks are onyou from that day this one,
this one, this one, this one,this one.
(33:30):
Think about each one.
If you want, give them eachattention and say you are so
special and precious to me.
Thank you for this great idea.
I'm going to put you up here inthis really special place and
that could just teach your bodylike.
These are all important andspecial.
Just if we let them all tie usdown, we're never going to get
anything done.
That's the cost of that andthat's why it's not in alignment
with you.
If you had all these reallygreat ideas and they weren't
(33:53):
holding you down, then great,but there's nothing wrong if it
is.
Does that kind of make sense?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, I like it.
I like the visualization.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
That's one more thing .
Secure attachment is honoringour own limitations.
That's all this episode isgoing to be Me saying secure
attachment is like a hundredtimes.
But like is like a hundredtimes.
But like it is honoring ourlimitations, not shaming them.
Do I wish I was the type ofperson that could go to yoga
five days a week and, you know,run a marathon and like, look
(34:24):
like really cute while I'mjogging, you know, with my
little Stanley, like I sometimeshave that desire.
Sure, like you know, I couldtell it's my golden shadow,
cause when I see other womendoing it, I'm like I want to be
like that and that's okay tohave that as my goal and my
intention.
But secure attachment ishonoring my limitations.
I have a lot of pain.
My knee is killing me right now.
I could look at that knee andbe like you.
(34:45):
Mother effer, how dare you holdme back from the woman I could
be?
Do you hear that energy thatlike that holds you down?
That kind of energy does itjust does Versus.
Like you know what, nhi, you'redoing the best you can.
I'll take care of you today,we'll walk a little bit around
the block and we'll see what wecan do tomorrow.
These are my limitations.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
They are what they are.
I think that will be reallyhelpful when trying to remind
myself that I need to rest also.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
God, yeah, if I could just never sleep and just like
robotically keep going, I couldrun the world.
Why?
Why must I rest to eat andsleep?
This stupid body?
Come on, I'm on a roll here.
I know I feel that that kind ofstuff right there is where it's
at and it's actually surprisingwhere you can go once you honor
(35:37):
your limitations and how muchmore effort and abilities that
you actually have.
But again, to be clear, andI'll wrap us up here a little
bit, but to be clear, we are notdoing this stuff to stop being
exhausted.
I don't know if that makessense.
Let me try it again.
The reason why here, if we aretrying to rest and trying to
(36:04):
love ourselves and do all thisstuff in order for us to be
better, then we're kind of justreinforcing the belief that
we're not good enough.
Still, do you hear that and Iknow that's like a really like
wrapped around, whacked outthing to try to explain, but I
usually explain it like this Ifyou give your toddler attention
with the mere intention ofgetting them to shut up, they're
(36:24):
going to sense that.
They're going to know you don'treally want to give them
attention right now.
They're going to know.
You're just like quickly givingthem some attention, then going
back to your job.
To truly give someone attentionis to give them your attention.
It's to stop what you're doingand love on your toddler, love
on your baby or love on yourpartner, your family, whoever it
is or yourself To love on youenough to give you that
(36:46):
attention you needed, not toshut yourself up, not to fix
yourself, because you're notbroken.
It's to truly love you.
But with that, when we do it, itdoes tend to work.
It tends to ease things up, ittends to ease the pain, it tends
to ease the frustration and theresentment and all of that
(37:08):
stuff.
It's just if we go into it withthe intention of stopping it,
it just doesn't seem to work.
That's how I want to end us.
So that's really, really clear.
Do the work because you loveyourself, not because you think
you're broken.
And then somehow you come outon the other side realizing like
, oh, okay, here I am, I couldhave this, I could mess up and
(37:29):
I'll be okay, all right, anylast minute thoughts as we're
wrapping up here.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
The example with the toddler you gave.
I had never thought of turningthat back on myself.
Yay, give it some attention,just to shut them up.
If I give myself attention, Ido that a lot with eating, like,
oh, let me just put somethingin my stomach so that it stops
being hungry.
Yes, then I eat it so fastbecause I'm trying to get to the
(37:54):
next thing, that I'm stillhungry, because I don't digest
anything and I feel sick.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Oh my God, that's the best.
Yes, your own analogy isperfect.
That's exactly it.
Yeah, it's taking time.
It's almost kind of likeslowing down a little bit I
think people tell you this a lotbut like, if you can slow down,
weirdly you speed up.
It's like the more I'm slowingdown, that's how I sense in
myself.
(38:22):
I'm out of whack is I'm startingto feel burnt out and something
doesn't feel right.
And you know all these thingsare going on and I realized whoa
and that comes with secureattachment knowing my body now,
listening to my feelings,understanding what's going on,
and not shoving food down mythroat, which I definitely did,
though, today.
Just to be very clear, I was onour group chat earlier today
shoving yogurt down my throat,as we're all talking like,
because I had not a time to eattoday.
See, I'm not perfect and Icheck in with my body.
(38:44):
I didn't like that.
So next Tuesday I'm going toblock time off of my schedule to
eat before group.
Do you see how I learned fromthat lesson?
My schedule to eat before group.
Do you see how I learned fromthat lesson?
Didn't shame it, I learned fromit.
That is secure attachment, allright.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday and for being vulnerable,
and I will see you at our nextgroup session.
Is there anything else you wantto say before we finish up?
(39:04):
Just that.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I've been feeling so much better with working through
the modules in the relationshipreboot program.
I was on the phone with mysister the other day and I tried
to walk through the wholeprogram with her to help her
feel better about something.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Did it work?
Or was she like what is this?
Well, you know what?
That's going to be good becausewhen the book comes out, I
think I'm able to actuallycondense it slightly.
So I put the whole program inthe book at the end and I cannot
wait for you guys to read it,because this is what you can
actually give to someone likeyour sister now and be like
don't listen to me, just go readthis.
So, yeah, it's coming out acouple months.
(39:44):
I'm so excited.
But, yes, that is perfect.
That is where it will work.
Yeah, because there's a lot inthere.
So I'm so glad it's helping.
You are such a delight to havein the program.
Truly mean it.
You work so hard to work onthese parts of yourself and you
can see you doing the work,coming in, putting in the
homework, doing it all and I amso proud of you Well.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Thank you, Jen, and congratulations on the book.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Thank you so much.
All right, well, I will speakwith you tomorrow or next time
at During Group and I will talkto you later.
All right, steph, thank you,bye, bye, all right, great,
great coaching call with Steph.
But, like, honestly, how manytimes did I actually say secure
attachment is?
If anyone wants to count thoseup and send it to me, that would
(40:32):
be great.
But truly, it was such a greatconversation because it's a
question that I get a lot.
You know, it's one thing to heal, but what does secure
attachment actually feel like?
That's the important part to benoticing, because secure
attachment, it's not perfection,it's not constant calm, it's
not turning into some boundarysetting robot that never has
(40:52):
feelings and lets everythingwash over their shoulders.
It's noticing your body,honoring your limits, saying no
even when it makes you squirm.
It's about learning how to letgo of stress that doesn't belong
to you.
And if you're nodding along tothe conversation I was having
with steph and you're noddingalong to the conversation I was
(41:12):
having with Steph and you'renodding along right now to me,
then I want you to know thatyou're not alone.
This is what this work is allabout, and if you want a more
supportive system, then come andjoin us in our free Facebook
community.
Speak honest, secure attachmentand confident communication for
women.
We are over in there.
We will keep this conversationgoing on in that Facebook group
and I hope to see you there.
(41:33):
I hope you all have a beautifulweek.
Speak with you next time.
Take care, as we wrap uptoday's conversation, always
remember that healing is ajourney, not a destination, and
it is an honor to be a part ofyour healing journey.
If you want to dig deeper intothe topics we covered today, be
(41:54):
sure to head over to our shownotes, where you can find all of
the valuable informationmentioned in today's episode
right there.
And please remember to rate,review and subscribe if you
enjoyed today's podcast.
Your feedback means the worldto us and helps others discover
our podcast.
Until next time, remember tospeak up and speak honest.
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