October 8, 2025 • 40 mins
What if the thing you’re chasing finally shows up the moment you stop trying to control it?
In this week’s episode, I sit down with bestselling author and coach Julee Sung, whose book Thrive and Shine tells the story of rebuilding your life and self-worth after burnout. We talk about what happens when you finally let go of the timeline, stop leading with ego, and start trusting that the universe knows what it’s doing. Julee shares how being open, grounded, and curious helped her attract a healthy partnership, rebuild her confidence, and learn that the most important relationship she’ll ever have is with herself.
You might want to listen if:
• You keep asking, “Why isn’t this happening yet?”
• You’re ready to shift from control to trust in your relationships
• You’ve been living in the “shoulds” and are tired of forcing things
• You’re realizing ego isn’t self-worth and want to learn the difference
• You’re craving real love that unfolds naturally, not perfectly
About Our Guest:
Julee Sung is a coach, consultant, and former corporate executive who completely reinvented her life after experiencing burnout and a layoff. Now an Amazon #1 bestselling author, Julee helps early-career professionals and relationship-seekers navigate big life shifts with clarity, compassion, and a touch of humor. Through her book Thrive and Shine and her coaching work, she explores how doing the inner work (especially after major change) transforms the way we show up in love, friendships, and at work.
You can find Julee at juleesung.com
or on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube @julees94.
Grab Thrive and Shine on Amazon
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DISCLAIMER: Speak Honest podcast content is informational, not professional or medical advice. Jenn is an ICF relationship coach, not a licensed therapist. Consult health ...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Speak Honest.
I am your host and certifiedrelationship coach, Jennifer
Noble.
It has been my passion for overa decade to help women like you
heal.
What's been holding you backfrom having the relationships
you deserve?
Are you struggling with arelationship where you can't
seem to voice your emotions,needs, and boundaries without
(00:26):
having it blow up in your face?
Then you have found the rightpodcast, my friend.
Get ready for practical tips,empowering truths, and honest
conversations.
Now, let's dive in.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto another episode of Speak
Honest.
I'm Jen Noble, your go-torelationship coach.
And on today's episode, I'm soexcited to have a friend and a
(00:47):
colleague on with me, thebeautiful, wonderful Julie Song.
And now Julie Sung is one of thefellow authors with me over at
my book publisher, Lucky BookPublishing.
And I wanted to have her onbecause she recently wrote a
best-selling book called Thriveand Shine.
And it has been really such abeautiful journey.
It's both a memoir and a how-tobook, kind of like part healing
(01:08):
guide, part memoir, which Ithought is really cool.
And I wanted to bring it to allof you listening.
So if you're listening right nowand you want to dive more into
this topic with me, then Iinvite you to come and join our
free Facebook community.
Our Facebook community, you canjust go Google Speak Honest.
You'll see these two littleorange hearts next to it.
It's where we are.
And then we continue theconversation there.
So if anything gets brought upin you today in my conversation
(01:31):
with Julie, maybe the concept ofstarting over, the concept of
having that breakdown, theconcept of starting a whole new
life, a whole new career, likethat is what you want to be
listening to.
So even if as you're listeningto our story, you're thinking,
oh, I haven't really been whereJulie is, I want you to hear the
nuance behind her story, whatshe's been through, and how she
got over the other side.
Now let me introduce Julie toyou.
(01:51):
Julie Sung is a coach, aconsultant, and a former
corporate executive whotransformed her life after
burnout and a layoff.
She is now, I'm so excited forher, an Amazon number one
best-selling author, and sheguides early career
professionals and relationshipseekers through pivotal life
shifts with clarity, compassion,and my favorite part, a touch of
(02:15):
humor.
So I want you to expect honeststories, actionable insights,
and real talk about how doingthe inner work impacts our
romantic partnerships,friendships, and how we show up
at work.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast, Julie.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
I am doing great.
Thank you so much for having me.
I've been so looking forward tothis.
I always get such inspirationfrom all the interviews you do
and all your content.
So I'm thrilled to be heretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Oh, thank you so much, Julie.
This is so great.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit more about yourself, the
stuff I didn't kind of bring up,like the stuff we don't know
about?
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
Yeah.
You know, when I first startedout diving into the early adult
world, I was on a completelydifferent trajectory.
I was a music major, I was goingto go into academia, and I
actually started there and justfound it wasn't for me.
So very early in my life, in myearly 20s, I was already making
(03:09):
these pivotal changes, sometimesby my choice and other times
just by external factors.
I somehow fell into working inthe corporate world and I
initially started thinking, I'lldo this for a year.
I'm pausing grad school.
I don't even know if I want thismaster's anymore.
So I'll just make some money andthen figure out what I do.
(03:29):
And then decades later, I wasjust on this corporate train
climbing that ladder.
And I didn't realize at thetime, but I was a very type A,
go get it, you know, like thiswhole thing, I just bought into
that narrative so hard.
And it became really part of myidentity much later in life.
(03:54):
Even though the doubts of, am Ifulfilled?
Is this the life that I wantstarted creeping in?
I just pushed it down, pushed itdown because I was just on a
success track.
You know, I was getting promotedsteadily, I was making more
money year over year.
And I was like, this is what I'msupposed to be doing.
This is what people are supposedto be doing.
(04:14):
Meanwhile, my life was all work.
I had a series of failedrelationships one after the
other for a variety of reasons.
And I don't want to go too offtopic, but I know with you, the
attachment theory, all the workthat you do there, I say the
attachment theory, thatrelationship dynamic definitely
(04:35):
exists at work in yourprofessional relationships as
well as personal.
So as all that was kind ofcoming to a head, COVID hits,
layoff hits, and I'm like, whatam I left with?
You know, like where does mylife go from here?
And it took a lot of fallingdown and getting back up to
(04:57):
reach this point now where Ifeel like only now in this later
stage of my life, am I startingto find my voice and really
finding purpose and helpingothers?
So it's been a crazy journey,and I feel like it's accelerated
over the last couple of years,especially with this book idea.
I never thought I would write abook.
(05:17):
I never saw myself doing that.
And when, you know, the universecalls and things fall into
place, you just kind of go withit and see what happens.
So it's a lot of leap of faith,and I'm still certainly learning
as I go.
Every day is a lesson, but I'm,you know, so grateful for the
(05:38):
opportunity to meet people likeyou and to have this kind of new
community open up.
So it's been incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Thank you so much for sharing all of that.
Yeah, you can hear it in the waythat you talk of just how far
you've really come.
Now, as I was reading in yourbook, or as I remember, you had
this breakdown around the age of36.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Yeah, right around that point.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
Because I have a lot of listeners are around in this
age frame.
My my clients are anywhere fromlike, you know, 30 to 60.
And I want them to see that thisidea of starting over or writing
a book, right?
I'm 41.
It doesn't have to be somethingwhen you're younger.
So would you mind sharing abouthow old you are now?
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm 54.
Okay, beautiful.
And I had multiple kind ofbreaking points, one in my 30s,
one in my 40s, and you know, inmy early 50s too.
And the thing that happened inmy 30s is I was in a
relationship for 10 years.
I went through a breakup thatwas pretty significant.
(06:35):
It shook up my life in a bigway.
And the funny thing is, itdidn't happen to me.
I did it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
Oh, that's huge.
Can we like step down on thatreal quick?
It did not happen to me.
Do you hear that, ladies?
Get out of that victimpositioning, right?
It was, yeah, tell me more.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean, I'm the one who chose to leave.
Now, of course, in everyrelationship, romantic or
otherwise, it always takes two.
You know, it's never just likeone side that just makes
everything happen or not happen.
But, you know, I was the one whochose to step away from this
long-term stable, securerelationship.
And then all of a sudden I wokeup and I was like, oh, hold on a
(07:12):
second.
I have no safety net now becauseI had this partner who was
always, you know, thiswonderful, solid, stable guy who
was just there to catch me ifanything happened.
So once that was gone and I wokeup after the first couple of
weeks of, oh, I'm free.
Like now I can do anything Iwant.
(07:33):
I can go anywhere.
I have all this, you know,liberated freedom.
And then when I realized, I'mlike, oh, wait, there's a cost
to that, meaning I have to nowstep up and own my own life
entirely by myself without thatstrong foundational support
system that I had.
Well, then everything in termsof my attitude shifted.
(07:54):
I completely had like that earlystage breakdown.
You know, I can't say it wasmidlife, but it was definitely
like I'm in my 30s, now I'malone.
I own nothing, my savings islike zero.
Like, what do I do?
And that idea of starting over.
And of course, now at my age, Ilook back, I'm like, I was a
baby.
Like I was a baby, but at thetime I felt like I'm too old to
(08:17):
be in this position.
Like I should have my actcompletely together.
Of course, I didn't, but you go,you go through it, you do one
step at a time, you do what's infront of your nose, basically.
So ironically, that's when Ireally started focusing on my
career out of this sense of thisis my livelihood.
(08:38):
If I get fired, I have norecourse.
Like I have to make this work,you know?
And that actually is whatstarted propelling my
professional success because Istarted working really hard,
really focusing and pouring myenergies into my job.
And that's what kept moving meforward.
And that lasted a good 10 years,you know.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
So during this time frame when you're putting all of
your effort into your job, wouldyou consider this something that
was helping you or hurting youin terms of like putting all
that energy in there?
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
At the time, I thought it was helping me in the
best way because I was just allof a sudden fast tracked to
management, leadership, youknow, all these, all this
exposure within a fairly largecompany.
I mean, it was a multi-billiondollar tech company, and I was,
you know, moved to headquarters.
I would like all these thingswere happening.
(09:30):
And I was like, this is great.
Like, this is awesome.
But again, that became kind ofmy identity.
And I really lost touch withmyself personally in that what
is important to me, whatfulfills me beyond work.
When you're chasing just afterprofessional accomplishments, it
(09:51):
actually is a very devastatinggame in a way, because there's
always the next title.
There's always somebody right onyour shoulder coming up after
you.
You just put yourself sometimesfalsely, you know, no one else
is doing it.
Like you're doing it to yourselfin this highly competitive, you
know, kind of mindset.
And that's not by nature who Iam, but I fell into that sort of
(10:14):
work persona, if you will.
SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
Yeah, it gives you a little bit of a almost like a
dopamine rush when you get that,right?
Like it's and I get it why thathappens, but this career, it's
like you get these likeimmediate, like you said,
bonuses or promotions oranything like that.
And you're like, oh, look, thisis so great.
You don't really level up inrelationships, so to speak, like
that.
So I think a lot of people throwthemselves into their career,
(10:36):
into their job, or even theirvolunteering, whatever it looks
like for you, to kind of notlook at the connection piece,
the the bigger picture.
So for you, at what point intime did you start noticing,
like, wait a second, I'm notfulfilled here?
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
A lot of it started happening when like I would go
meet friends once in a while fordinner or drinks or something,
and they would say, Oh, so howare you?
What's new?
And I literally had nothing toadd to the conversation other
than work stuff, which believeme, nobody else cared about.
I mean, it's not like they'relike, that's great for you, but
(11:09):
I mean, no one in my personalcircle is sitting there waiting
to hear about my latest projector my latest, you know,
whatever.
And I thought, God, you know, isthis all I have to bring to the
table?
Like, is everything that I'mdoing just about work?
But I kept pushing it downbecause the alternative was,
(11:30):
yeah, you've wasted all thistime pouring all your energy
into work and now you have thisreally empty personal life.
But that was horrible to admit,right?
And really painful to kind of gothere.
So I was like, no, no, no.
I'm just gonna do this for thenext couple years more.
You know, I'll just do thisuntil I, you know, hit 15
minutes.
Just a few more years.
Just a few more years, just afew more years.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
So, what was the turning point for you?
When did you this?
You said this was about for 10years or so.
So it's hearing like this was,you know, when you're in like
now you're getting into your 40sand you're still doing all this.
So, what was that turning pointfor you where you thought, wait
a second, I need to startbalancing my career and my
connections more?
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Yeah.
Funny things happened, all kindof one on top of the other.
And it's just, you know, crazyhow that works sometimes.
So I was in this position.
It was my highest corporatelevel job.
I mean, I was reporting directlyinto our chief revenue officer
of this global, again,multi-billion dollar company.
And I had worked with him at theprevious company.
(12:29):
He had brought me with him tothis new place.
And it was so stressful.
And it was a UK-based company.
So I was working easily 14 hoursa day.
I mean, easily.
And it was just you have Europe,then you have the US, then you
have Asia, and you're just kindof doing all these things.
But ultimately, I had nothingtied to my name because
(12:51):
everything was just going to myboss or the team or the this.
And I started to feel reallydisconnected from the work I was
doing.
It was no longer motivating me.
The stress was outweighing thesort of dopamine rewards, if you
will.
And I thought, God, you know, isthis what am I doing?
But you wake up and you're atwork and you're just kind of on
(13:13):
this hamster wheel, right?
And then a funny thing happened.
Right around that time, I waslike, you know what?
I hadn't dated for a while.
I had gotten out of arelationship.
I was single for a couple ofyears, just a date here, a date
there.
And I was like, I'm gonnaactually date.
I'm gonna date.
I'm gonna go not necessarilyfind a boyfriend, but just get
out there and just put my handin the game and just see what is
(13:36):
out there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
See what is out there.
Yeah.
So what did you end up doing?
Did you go online dating?
Did you try like in-personstuff?
What did you end up doing?
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah, so I did both actually.
I was online for a hot minuteand then I realized that it's
pretty much like a part-timejob.
So I was like, okay, well, thisisn't for me.
But I met a couple of reallynice guys through that.
Once my friends figured outthat, oh, you know, I'm kind of
back in the game of maybedating, they set me up a couple
times.
And again, every guy I met wasreally, really nice, but no real
(14:07):
chemistry, no real connection.
It just felt good to be pursued,but it was that sort of my ego
was fulfilled, but that wasreally it.
You know, there was no realsubstance behind that.
And again, no offense to any ofthese guys I met.
They were all great.
They just weren't for me, and Icertainly wasn't for them.
And then as my work startedgetting really, really, really,
(14:28):
really stressful, and you know,the pandemic was now looming,
and now my boss was most likelygoing to be, you know, pushed
out, and all these changes werehappening.
I was at dinner one night.
After dinner, my friend, my bestfriend and I were out.
We went to a bar right nextdoor, and I met this guy, and we
(14:52):
just started talking andexchanged numbers at the end of
the night and started dating,and that was it.
And now I'm with him.
I've been with him for, youknow, ever since that time, and
that was it.
And now he's like my lifepartner and it's wonderful.
But everything at work wasfalling apart, and then my
personal life started to kind ofrise up, saying, like, hey, this
(15:14):
could be something, but itwasn't easy.
It wasn't an easy situation, andthe hardest part was for me to
mentally shift into, hey, I needto feed this other side of my
life that I've ignored on andoff for for many years, but for
so long.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
Yeah.
Can we talk about how you methim a little bit?
Could I could I like like getnosy?
Okay, because that's so cute.
Okay, because I gotta tell you,I've been doing this for a long
time.
I help women date all the time.
Like, I again I also just wantto tell anyone out there
listening, what happened toJulie is still like hitting the
lottery.
It does not happen like this allthe time anymore, ladies.
So, like, but it can happen.
(15:51):
So, what do you think it was inthat moment that put you out
there to kind of say, Hey, I'mopen and I'm single?
And like, did he ask you foryour number?
Did you ask him for his?
Like, I want to dive down intothis.
How did it happen?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah.
So it was funny.
So he was out with his friend.
Now, this was a neighborhoodthat I actually lived in.
Okay.
He lived far enough away.
I mean, you know, not so farthat it was going to be a plane
ride, but on the other side oftown, let's say.
And he was just therecoincidentally.
And what happened was it was aFriday night, and it was a bar
(16:23):
that all of a sudden, at somepoint, you know, right around
that 10 o'clock time frame, itbecame really crowded, really
loud, very young.
And so the four of us, my friendand me, and his friend and him,
we got kind of pushed into acorner.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Just like randomly?
Like you guys hadn't beentalking yet.
This was just kind of random.
Okay, cool.
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
We were just looking for a quiet corner because we
were like so out of place there,you know?
So we kind of like huddled.
And then when the four of youare in this little corner, you
make eye contact, you say hi, westarted talking.
And then for whatever reason, Isaw this guy, and he was just
not coming on to me, notaggressive, not trying to hit on
(17:07):
me or anything like that in anyway.
We just happened to say, like,oh, hey, how are you?
My name is this, my name isthis, oh, it's great, you know.
And the conversation justorganically happened.
And we sat down and we talkedfor probably over an hour.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Oh, really?
Wait, what was your girlfrienddoing during this time?
What was it?
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
She was just talking to Yeah, she was just talking to
his friend who was not at alllooking for anything because he
was married.
He was like, Yeah, oh my god,great wingmen.
SPEAKER_01 (17:34):
You guys have good friends.
This is good.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, and then they just itstarted talking.
But like at this moment, youcould have pushed him away.
You could have been like, Idon't have time for something
like this.
You could have, right?
But you didn't.
It seemed like at this point intime things were starting to
kind of work together to whereyou were open for this.
Is that is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
That's exactly right.
I do firmly believe that if Ihadn't, you know, months before
kind of decided like I'm goingto date, yeah.
I'm just gonna go out there andsee what happens, not look for
anything specific, not have agoal like, hey, by this date,
I'm gonna have a boyfriend,nothing like that.
But just I'm gonna put myselfout there energetically, see
what happens.
If I hadn't done that, I don'tthink Gary and I would have ever
(18:16):
met.
Or if we had, we would have justbrushed shoulders, and that's
kind of it.
And I think just by beingopen-minded and looking at this
guy who was, again, not flirtingwith me, not trying to, you
know, hit on me right away, notbeing aggressive at all, but
just continuing the conversationinstead of like, oh, okay,
(18:37):
great.
It was nice meeting you, have agood evening, and just keeping
that conversation going, I thinkmade a difference because that
signaled, like, hey, I'm notlooking to just hook up with
someone.
I'm not on some kind of agenda,like, are you married?
Do you have you know, like thiskind of 20 questions with him?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
You mean you weren't planning your wedding out with
him as he's sitting theretalking to you?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
Just like on this mission, you know?
Yeah.
And just letting it organicallyhappen, I think, signaled to him
that, hey, you know, she'ssomeone I can talk to, she's
easygoing, no pressure.
But also we can have aconversation.
It's not just you look great,you know, what are you up to?
(19:21):
Let's get out of here, kind ofthing.
Right.
So it was, I think that givingit that time, that little bit of
hour plus to just tell me aboutyou.
Here's what I'm about, andhaving that early phase
conversation of introducingourselves to each other really
made a difference.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
And then did he ask for your number at the end of
the night?
Is that what happened?
Yeah.
Or did you have to like kind oflike poke him and be like, are
you gonna ask or what?
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
Like no, so we all walked out together and he asked
for my number.
So we exchanged numbers.
I was sitting there the nextday.
I'm like, if this guy doesn'tcall me, something is definitely
wrong.
Like, I need to, you know, lightsome candles or something.
There's no way this guy's notgonna call me.
And then it was 10 o'clock, 11o'clock, 12 o'clock, and I'm
(20:06):
like, no word from this dude.
I'm like, what is going on?
I thought then, like, muchlater, two o'clock, three
o'clock in the afternoon, I gotthis long text from him, like,
hey, I had a great time speakingwith you.
If you're open to it, I'd loveto take you out to dinner.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Yes.
Okay, so also any guy listeningright now, because I know
there's a lot of guys that liketo listen to try to be like,
okay, but how do I get her thisright here?
See, he didn't come on toostrong.
Like, he waited to get to knowyou.
He asked for your number, hewrote you something nice, and he
asked you out immediately.
Did that feel good?
Did that feel like uh like beingpursued and you were like, Okay,
yes, this is it.
(20:42):
He wasn't like, oh, it was niceto hang out, and then that's it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean, and the guys I dated before, again,
great guys, but not all of them,but some of them were like, Hey,
what are you up to via text?
And you're like, Oh, I'm justhanging out.
Like five lines at that point intime.
Yeah, is there is is theresomething else following up this
question?
Because I didn't want to carryon this, you know, week-long
(21:08):
text conversation for what?
Like, what's the point?
So when I got that text fromhim, I thought, this is a
grown-up.
Like he's an adult man.
This is a man.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Who's not playing games?
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
We really don't have high standards.
We just want grown-ups, youknow.
It really helps.
He's not playing games.
He so he asked you out on adate.
Did he like say, Hey, can I takeyou out this weekend?
Is that what happened?
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Yeah, he's like, Hey, you know, I'm going out of
town next week, but I'd love totake you out to dinner before.
Are you free on this night?
I can come to you, let me knowwhere you want to go.
I mean, it was so it was very sohe just made it really easy.
He left the door open for me ifI wanted to do something
different, but otherwise he justsaid, Hey, you know, let's meet
(21:53):
up and get together.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
So it was it was really, and then you guys went
and got dinner and you just keptgetting to know one another.
Was there any time, like whenyou first met him, let's say in
the bar, was he your type?
Like, is he someone that youtypically find attractive, or
was it kind of interesting atfirst?
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Yeah, I mean, I think he was, but I've never had
that one type.
Like I've dated all differentsorts of guys.
I don't care about height, Idon't care about dark hair,
light hair, you know.
I've dated people of allbackgrounds.
So for me, it's more, you know,I certainly found him
attractive, and that was a bigthing, but I didn't have that
(22:28):
one, like, it has to be a guythat looks like this that I find
attractive.
I was much more open.
But he is a handsome guy, sothat helped for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Definitely helps.
And I but I like to hear thatbecause sometimes what happens
is women can get in these stuckmindsets, right?
But he needs to have a beard orhe has to have brown hair, or I
really don't like, you know,guys with a tummy, or he has to
have big ar, you know, somethinglike that.
And that's where I kind of amlike, but you can see here with
Julie, she was so open towhatever it was the universe
brought to her that at thatpoint in time she's just kind of
(22:58):
open.
And so she didn't push him awayagain because oh, he had brown
eyes instead of blue eyes.
So we want to be careful withthat kind of stuff too, so as to
not miss out on what could be,you know, your life partner for
right now while this is goingon.
Aw, thank you so much forsharing all of this with me,
Julie.
I love a good dating story, it'sso fun.
So so you and you and yourpartner, you're dating now.
Is this after the pandemic?
(23:18):
Is this happening kind of likeduring give me time life?
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
We met literally right before shutdown.
Oh my gosh.
Like I think shutdown happenedin March, and I think we met
like February.
I mean, like right, rightbefore.
Oh, good timing.
And so, yeah, perfect timing.
And so everything kind of got alittle bit elongated because
shutdown was happening, theworld was crazy, we were trying
(23:41):
to get to know each other, andby the way, everything is
closed.
You can't go see a movie, youcan't go out to a restaurant
anymore.
I mean, all that was going on,and we wanted to take it slow
anyway.
I mean, for him, he was comingoff of a very long-term marriage
where his wife had passed theyear before, and he had two
girls who were older, but youknow, we were very sensitive to
(24:05):
that.
He certainly wasn't looking todate at all.
And so we were planning ontaking it slow, and the pandemic
just sort of forced that pace tohappen, which honestly I'm
grateful for.
You know, I really wanted to berespectful to his situation and
of course his girls who arewonderful humans and you know,
and and really take it slow.
(24:25):
So it all kind of worked out.
But the other lesson in this isif it's right, it'll happen.
It doesn't have to happen in thetimeline you think it's going
to.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Good point.
I love that.
It doesn't have to happen in thetimeline you think it's gonna
happen.
What a secure thought process toreally be, you can almost feel
this way in which Julie'sreleasing attachment to
outcomes, right?
So that's what we talk about alot, which is how can we really
like live in this hope forhaving something and yet at the
same time live withoutattachment to it?
And that's secure attachmentright there is you went into
(24:57):
dating, you weren't like, I needto be dating a guy, you know,
within three months and thenwe're gonna be married or
anything like that.
You just kind of released it andsaid, I'm open, what's going on?
He reached out to you, you'reopen, let's see what's going on.
And then you could have, couldyou imagine?
And I mean, I've definitely beenthis way where it's like, oh,
thanks a lot, universe.
I finally met a good guy, andnow you're gonna go a global
pandemic on me.
(25:17):
Like, but like you can hear inyour voice, there's no victim
positioning there.
There's no level of like, why isthis happening to me?
It's more, okay, here's a guy Imet.
We're gonna take this low.
This is what's gonna happen, andwe're gonna go along it with
each idea kind of as we go.
So as you're going along withall this, and you're dating him,
pandemic's happening.
(25:38):
I think I heard you say therewas kind of another shift,
another mindset shift, anothermaybe breakdown, you know,
whatever it is you want to callit.
Talk me through that and how youkind of found yourself again.
Because I know you talk a lotabout finding this journey back
to your self-worth in the book.
So I want to hear about that alittle bit too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
Yeah, you know, it's this really interesting thing.
And for the longest time Icouldn't put words to it.
But as I was diving into thisnew relationship, which was
really important, and me hangingon to this belief that if this
is meant to work out, it'll workout however way it does.
It doesn't have to be fast forit to be the right thing.
(26:16):
As that's happening, myprofessional life is pretty much
crumbling apart because layoffsare happening.
I mean, thankfully I got, youknow, a few months' notice
because my boss had left thecompany.
I was definitely his right-handlieutenant.
So I and others kind of in thatpart were on the layoff list.
Pandemic is raging.
(26:37):
And they were like, you know,Julie, we really love you at
this company.
You can network internally andfind another position.
There are lots of people whoprobably would want to hire you
as long as they have budget andheadcount.
And I was like, okay, yeah,that's great, that's great.
And I literally did not lift afinger to make that happen.
Because even though logically Iknew that was the secure thing
(27:00):
to do, the safe thing to do,guarantees income, who knows
what the world is gonna be atthat point.
No one knew anything aboutanything.
So the smart move would havebeen to, yeah, network
internally, find and landanother soft position somewhere
inside and write this out, seewhere it goes.
And I was so unmotivated to dothat.
(27:21):
So unmotivated that I didn'tsend a single email.
I didn't make a single phonecall.
I was just writing out thislayoff with nothing else lined
up after that, by the way.
Like I was so in this comatosestate.
And I think that's what burnoutwas.
And I didn't know it was burnoutat the time, but I was so jazzed
(27:45):
in my personal life and soexhausted in my professional
life that I lifted not a fingerhere in my work life, but on my
personal life, I was giving it alot of care and nurturing and
you know, patience and kind ofdoing all that stuff.
And then the layoff date, ofcourse, came.
They told me it would come andit eventually did.
(28:06):
And I thought, ah, what do Ineed to do now that I'm not a
badged employee anymore?
When I meet people, how do Iexplain who I am?
You know, I mean, a lot of timesthat's how people introduce
themselves.
Oh, my name is Julie.
I do this for a living, right?
And that's so part of how peoplemeet you.
(28:27):
And I thought, no, you know, ifI'm not gonna do that, then who
am I really?
And what I came around tothrough a lot of coaching myself
and receiving coaching for thefirst time at that point, I
realized that all this time Ihad been leading with ego, but
not this idea of self-worth orself-value.
(28:48):
And I had mixed those two up.
I thought if I have a big ego,that means I value myself and I
think I'm worth a lot.
When in fact, that's not true atall.
In fact, the bigger ego meansyou're trying to cover up and
fill all your insecurities.
So you do it with these externalrewards and accolades and, you
(29:09):
know, chasing after that goldstar is what I say in my book.
Because I didn't have the solidfoundation of what is my
self-worth, what is myself-value.
So I kept covering it up withall this ego-driven actions and
behaviors.
And it took me a long time tocome around to that realization
and say, if I let go of this, myego goes with it, right?
(29:33):
It just goes.
And that's out the window.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
It's powerful, but scary.
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Yeah, and that's really scary.
But once I let go of that, andonce I let go of having to be
validated by others, by my jobtitle, by my paycheck, then what
do I have?
And it was that journey ofgetting back to who I am and
what's important to me.
What do I like doing?
Do I have a sense of purposewith my day?
(30:00):
Now, don't get me wrong.
I mean, I I do think there isreal value in people who live
the corporate life because thebetter you do, that means your
company is healthy, that meansit gets to employee people, and
that means families get fed, andyou know, there's a a work and
community around it.
I think all that's reallyvaluable.
So I'm not poo-pooing any kindof corporate life.
(30:21):
It just simply wasn't ultimatelyfor me because of the way I
lived it and I approached it inthis very ego-fueled external
validation-seeking way.
Because of that, that wasn'tright for me.
Other people I know are outthere doing, you know, great
things and doing it the rightway.
It just wasn't my story.
(30:41):
That's that's all that was, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
I love that.
That's such a real way to reallyput it though, because it's so
true that just like inrelationships, not everything's
right for everyone.
And and what is it that you'rebringing into your career, your
job?
We even see it in the coachingworld a lot of times.
A lot of people come into thecoaching world driven by their
ego.
I love the way you're sayingthat.
I love the way you're reallyexplaining the difference
between your ego and yourself-worth and that they're not
(31:04):
the same thing.
But I hear this sometimes too.
Like, you know, my clients willcome into me, you know, and
they'll be like, Well, I knowthat, you know, I'm a good
catcher.
I know how amazing I am, butlike no other man seems to like
really see this.
And it's like when we reallylike kind of come down more and
dig deeper, we kind of reallysee, no, that's just a front.
You know, they're there reallythese things that you think you
can offer to your relationships,those that's your ego.
(31:25):
It's really like, are you justinherently worthy of love?
Not what you have to bring toit.
So I love how you bring thatdifference up into all of this
because it really helps forpeople to see, like, oh, oh,
okay, this is my ego over here,but this is my self-worth.
So I want to ask you a quickquestion for the women listening
right now, and they feelexhausted or they feel
(31:45):
disconnected, and they kind oflike something clicked in them
right now, as you're hearingJulie talk, and they're like, Oh
shit, maybe it's been my egothis whole time.
Like, what would you say to herto start the process of figuring
out how to stop beingego-driven?
SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
Yeah, and it's so difficult because ultimately
it's like old habits die hard,and the gravitational pull is to
your ego because it feels like asafe place.
It has this voice of like, ohno, you're great.
You're, you know what I mean?
And because of that, there's thelure of if you can go back to
(32:22):
your ego, you feel like, oh no,no, no, this is where I'm
supposed to be.
This is my safety net, this ismy safety blanket.
But ultimately it works soagainst you, but it takes a long
time to kind of figure that out.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
Okay, so there was one quick question I wanted to
ask you about, which was yousaid something in your book,
which I really liked, which wasthere is no quick fix, but there
is a way.
And I was wondering if you couldexpand on what that means for
someone just starting out intheir healing journey.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
You know, we're taught that fast is better.
And find the shortcuts, youknow, fake it till you make it.
You know, there are all theseideas out there that push you
towards this do it faster, skipover, leapfrog, you know, all
these words are seen aspositive.
Unfortunately, when you do that,what happens is you are building
(33:07):
a house of cards, basically,that you're trying to stand on.
And that does not work becauseif you don't have a solid
foundation, ultimately you'regoing to fall.
That's what happened to me.
No question about it.
When you're going at 100 milesper hour, and when you feel like
I have to get there, I have toget there fast and I have to get
there tomorrow, it can feelreally overwhelming.
(33:28):
And it's hard to take a pauseand say, hey, hold on, like I
need to just take a breath andtake inventory of what I'm good
at, what I'm doing well, where Iwant to go, what I want to learn
next.
And sometimes that's just a fewminutes a day of just pausing
and taking a sticky note andwriting an idea down, or having
(33:51):
a text conversation with afriend over, you know, coffee or
a glass of wine or something,and just that's all it takes.
But we're so taught to just go,go, go, go, go that we don't
even pause for a few minutes forourselves to just do it.
The danger in this is if you'rejust going, going, going, and if
(34:11):
you're not staying in touch withwho you are and what you're
trying to do and what feelsright to you, not what feels
comfortable, because sometimesyou do need to get out of your
comfort zone and challengeyourself, but what your
intuitions or your instincts aresaying, like, oh, I want to go
there.
I'm curious about this, or Ifeel like there's something
(34:32):
there that I want to, you know,go, go explore.
If you don't let yourself dothat, what'll happen is you'll
get to a certain point andyou'll look back and say, wow,
I'm now lost.
I've lost the breadcrumbs.
I don't know really where I'mgoing.
I'm just now going with thetide.
Sometimes it's okay to go withthe flow when you feel like, I
(34:53):
don't want to make up my mindright now.
I don't want to dictate what'snext.
I'm just going to do what feelsright.
That's different than justmindlessly going along without
stopping every once in a whileand asking yourself, hey, am I
doing the right thing?
Am I taking note of what I'mactually doing well?
Am I pausing to getreinforcement and validation in
(35:14):
a work sense that could comefrom your manager, your peers?
It's good to take stock of, hey,am I kind of where I need to be?
And am I asking myself the rightquestions?
Take all of that time foryourself.
And when I say all of that time,it's not take three months off,
go on sabbatical, come back.
(35:35):
I mean it's just a few minutes aday.
That's all you really need todo.
Um we're taught as leaders laterin life that, hey, you know, be
an authentic leader, have agenuine voice, be a trusted
leader.
Okay, well, if you weren'ttaught to practice authenticity
from the beginning of yourcareer, how are you supposed to
(35:57):
find it 20 years later?
That doesn't make any sense.
So you need to practice it now.
Stay in touch with who you are,be authentic to yourself.
Doesn't mean don't stretchyourself.
Definitely do that and staycurious and stay open, but don't
lose touch with what's importantto you and who you are.
And ignore all the voices aroundyou that say, Oh, forget about
(36:21):
that.
Everyone's going there, you gothere.
Maybe you should, because that'swhat you want to do, but maybe
it's not where you want to go,you know, and that's okay.
And it's okay to explore thosedifferent avenues.
And the one thing to remember isyou already bring a lot to the
table.
Whether this is day one on jobone or day a thousand in job 30,
(36:44):
it doesn't matter.
You already are strong, you havevalue, you have worth.
You know, there is somethingspecial that you bring to the
table.
Otherwise, you wouldn't bethere.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
I love that.
You already have something tobring to the table.
That is so though, that's sobeautiful, Julie.
And I love, I love that so much.
And as we're wrapping up here, Ijust want to talk again about
your book, Thrive and Shine,which is ignite your career
journey and confidence withgrace.
So I really recommend that ifanyone there is a professional
in that kind of career world andthey want to pick this book up
(37:16):
just to hear her story.
Like you can hear, she's abeautiful storyteller.
You just want to learn moreabout what she's been through,
grab it and just help you.
There's this thing that we talkabout, which is we can learn
through other people, right?
It's why I have coaching callson my podcast.
It's why I bring in interviews,it's why I want to hear the
people I interview.
I want to hear their story.
Not just how to do things, butwhat did you do?
(37:39):
Because through that, we get tokind of pick out what what do we
want?
Like, oh, I really like howJulie did this over here.
I'm gonna pick that out of herstory.
And that's what I recommend youguys do.
So you can go, it's a beautifulcover, by the way.
If you guys want to check itout, you can get it on Amazon.
That's right, Amazon, we can getthis.
Julie, as well, is over here inCalifornia with me.
So we will be doing some sort ofbook launch for both of our
(37:59):
books coming up soon.
So as soon as I have moreinformation about that, guys, I
will absolutely let you know.
You can come and meet Julie withme if you want to come down to
the LA area with me.
I think it'll be really fun.
Our publishers are gonna comeout, throw a big party for all
of us.
We're gonna try to get moreCalifornia authors up in our
community, aren't we, Julie?
Because we need some more WestCoast love.
That's right.
Right?
But tell us more about how canpeople find you?
(38:22):
Instagram, anything else,website, tell us more.
SPEAKER_00 (38:25):
Yep, my website is Julie Sung, J-U-L-E-E-S-U-N-G
dot com.
And all my social media linksare there.
I'm very active on social media,as you know, Jen, and I'm a big
follow-up of yours because youdo great work there.
My Instagram is at Julie'sJ-U-L-E-E-S 94.
SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
Beautiful.
All right, everyone.
So go follow Julie on theInstagram.
Go check out her website, gograb her book.
And Julie, is there just onelast message you would like for
the readers to take away fromyour book before we wrap up?
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
Yes, uh, thank you.
What I would like to say is havegrace for yourself.
If you're not gracious withyourself and give yourself the
room and space to be who youare, you cannot be gracious with
others.
And that's true for everyrelationship.
So the most importantrelationship you have is with
yourself.
So show yourself plenty of loveand grace.
SPEAKER_01 (39:17):
What a beautiful way to end this.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast today, Julian.
I'll speak with you later.
Take care.
Thank you so much.
Bye-bye.
As we wrap up today'sconversation, always remember
that healing is a journey, not adestination.
And it is an honor to be a partof your healing journey.
If you want to dig deeper intothe topics we covered today, be
(39:40):
sure to head over to our shownotes, where you can find all of
the valuable informationmentioned in today's episode
right there.
And please remember to rate,review, and subscribe if you
enjoyed today's podcast.
Your feedback means the world tous and helps others discover our
podcast.
Until next time, remember tospeak up and speak honest.
Hello, and welcome to Speak Honest.
I am your host and certifiedrelationship coach, Jennifer
Noble.
It has been my passion for overa decade to help women like you
heal.
What's been holding you backfrom having the relationships
you deserve?
Are you struggling with arelationship where you can't
seem to voice your emotions,needs, and boundaries without
(00:26):
having it blow up in your face?
Then you have found the rightpodcast, my friend.
Get ready for practical tips,empowering truths, and honest
conversations.
Now, let's dive in.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto another episode of Speak
Honest.
I'm Jen Noble, your go-torelationship coach.
And on today's episode, I'm soexcited to have a friend and a
(00:47):
colleague on with me, thebeautiful, wonderful Julie Song.
And now Julie Sung is one of thefellow authors with me over at
my book publisher, Lucky BookPublishing.
And I wanted to have her onbecause she recently wrote a
best-selling book called Thriveand Shine.
And it has been really such abeautiful journey.
It's both a memoir and a how-tobook, kind of like part healing
(01:08):
guide, part memoir, which Ithought is really cool.
And I wanted to bring it to allof you listening.
So if you're listening right nowand you want to dive more into
this topic with me, then Iinvite you to come and join our
free Facebook community.
Our Facebook community, you canjust go Google Speak Honest.
You'll see these two littleorange hearts next to it.
It's where we are.
And then we continue theconversation there.
So if anything gets brought upin you today in my conversation
(01:31):
with Julie, maybe the concept ofstarting over, the concept of
having that breakdown, theconcept of starting a whole new
life, a whole new career, likethat is what you want to be
listening to.
So even if as you're listeningto our story, you're thinking,
oh, I haven't really been whereJulie is, I want you to hear the
nuance behind her story, whatshe's been through, and how she
got over the other side.
Now let me introduce Julie toyou.
(01:51):
Julie Sung is a coach, aconsultant, and a former
corporate executive whotransformed her life after
burnout and a layoff.
She is now, I'm so excited forher, an Amazon number one
best-selling author, and sheguides early career
professionals and relationshipseekers through pivotal life
shifts with clarity, compassion,and my favorite part, a touch of
(02:15):
humor.
So I want you to expect honeststories, actionable insights,
and real talk about how doingthe inner work impacts our
romantic partnerships,friendships, and how we show up
at work.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast, Julie.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
I am doing great.
Thank you so much for having me.
I've been so looking forward tothis.
I always get such inspirationfrom all the interviews you do
and all your content.
So I'm thrilled to be heretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Oh, thank you so much, Julie.
This is so great.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit more about yourself, the
stuff I didn't kind of bring up,like the stuff we don't know
about?
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
Yeah.
You know, when I first startedout diving into the early adult
world, I was on a completelydifferent trajectory.
I was a music major, I was goingto go into academia, and I
actually started there and justfound it wasn't for me.
So very early in my life, in myearly 20s, I was already making
(03:09):
these pivotal changes, sometimesby my choice and other times
just by external factors.
I somehow fell into working inthe corporate world and I
initially started thinking, I'lldo this for a year.
I'm pausing grad school.
I don't even know if I want thismaster's anymore.
So I'll just make some money andthen figure out what I do.
(03:29):
And then decades later, I wasjust on this corporate train
climbing that ladder.
And I didn't realize at thetime, but I was a very type A,
go get it, you know, like thiswhole thing, I just bought into
that narrative so hard.
And it became really part of myidentity much later in life.
(03:54):
Even though the doubts of, am Ifulfilled?
Is this the life that I wantstarted creeping in?
I just pushed it down, pushed itdown because I was just on a
success track.
You know, I was getting promotedsteadily, I was making more
money year over year.
And I was like, this is what I'msupposed to be doing.
This is what people are supposedto be doing.
(04:14):
Meanwhile, my life was all work.
I had a series of failedrelationships one after the
other for a variety of reasons.
And I don't want to go too offtopic, but I know with you, the
attachment theory, all the workthat you do there, I say the
attachment theory, thatrelationship dynamic definitely
(04:35):
exists at work in yourprofessional relationships as
well as personal.
So as all that was kind ofcoming to a head, COVID hits,
layoff hits, and I'm like, whatam I left with?
You know, like where does mylife go from here?
And it took a lot of fallingdown and getting back up to
(04:57):
reach this point now where Ifeel like only now in this later
stage of my life, am I startingto find my voice and really
finding purpose and helpingothers?
So it's been a crazy journey,and I feel like it's accelerated
over the last couple of years,especially with this book idea.
I never thought I would write abook.
(05:17):
I never saw myself doing that.
And when, you know, the universecalls and things fall into
place, you just kind of go withit and see what happens.
So it's a lot of leap of faith,and I'm still certainly learning
as I go.
Every day is a lesson, but I'm,you know, so grateful for the
(05:38):
opportunity to meet people likeyou and to have this kind of new
community open up.
So it's been incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Thank you so much for sharing all of that.
Yeah, you can hear it in the waythat you talk of just how far
you've really come.
Now, as I was reading in yourbook, or as I remember, you had
this breakdown around the age of36.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Yeah, right around that point.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
Because I have a lot of listeners are around in this
age frame.
My my clients are anywhere fromlike, you know, 30 to 60.
And I want them to see that thisidea of starting over or writing
a book, right?
I'm 41.
It doesn't have to be somethingwhen you're younger.
So would you mind sharing abouthow old you are now?
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm 54.
Okay, beautiful.
And I had multiple kind ofbreaking points, one in my 30s,
one in my 40s, and you know, inmy early 50s too.
And the thing that happened inmy 30s is I was in a
relationship for 10 years.
I went through a breakup thatwas pretty significant.
(06:35):
It shook up my life in a bigway.
And the funny thing is, itdidn't happen to me.
I did it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
Oh, that's huge.
Can we like step down on thatreal quick?
It did not happen to me.
Do you hear that, ladies?
Get out of that victimpositioning, right?
It was, yeah, tell me more.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean, I'm the one who chose to leave.
Now, of course, in everyrelationship, romantic or
otherwise, it always takes two.
You know, it's never just likeone side that just makes
everything happen or not happen.
But, you know, I was the one whochose to step away from this
long-term stable, securerelationship.
And then all of a sudden I wokeup and I was like, oh, hold on a
(07:12):
second.
I have no safety net now becauseI had this partner who was
always, you know, thiswonderful, solid, stable guy who
was just there to catch me ifanything happened.
So once that was gone and I wokeup after the first couple of
weeks of, oh, I'm free.
Like now I can do anything Iwant.
(07:33):
I can go anywhere.
I have all this, you know,liberated freedom.
And then when I realized, I'mlike, oh, wait, there's a cost
to that, meaning I have to nowstep up and own my own life
entirely by myself without thatstrong foundational support
system that I had.
Well, then everything in termsof my attitude shifted.
(07:54):
I completely had like that earlystage breakdown.
You know, I can't say it wasmidlife, but it was definitely
like I'm in my 30s, now I'malone.
I own nothing, my savings islike zero.
Like, what do I do?
And that idea of starting over.
And of course, now at my age, Ilook back, I'm like, I was a
baby.
Like I was a baby, but at thetime I felt like I'm too old to
(08:17):
be in this position.
Like I should have my actcompletely together.
Of course, I didn't, but you go,you go through it, you do one
step at a time, you do what's infront of your nose, basically.
So ironically, that's when Ireally started focusing on my
career out of this sense of thisis my livelihood.
(08:38):
If I get fired, I have norecourse.
Like I have to make this work,you know?
And that actually is whatstarted propelling my
professional success because Istarted working really hard,
really focusing and pouring myenergies into my job.
And that's what kept moving meforward.
And that lasted a good 10 years,you know.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
So during this time frame when you're putting all of
your effort into your job, wouldyou consider this something that
was helping you or hurting youin terms of like putting all
that energy in there?
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
At the time, I thought it was helping me in the
best way because I was just allof a sudden fast tracked to
management, leadership, youknow, all these, all this
exposure within a fairly largecompany.
I mean, it was a multi-billiondollar tech company, and I was,
you know, moved to headquarters.
I would like all these thingswere happening.
(09:30):
And I was like, this is great.
Like, this is awesome.
But again, that became kind ofmy identity.
And I really lost touch withmyself personally in that what
is important to me, whatfulfills me beyond work.
When you're chasing just afterprofessional accomplishments, it
(09:51):
actually is a very devastatinggame in a way, because there's
always the next title.
There's always somebody right onyour shoulder coming up after
you.
You just put yourself sometimesfalsely, you know, no one else
is doing it.
Like you're doing it to yourselfin this highly competitive, you
know, kind of mindset.
And that's not by nature who Iam, but I fell into that sort of
(10:14):
work persona, if you will.
SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
Yeah, it gives you a little bit of a almost like a
dopamine rush when you get that,right?
Like it's and I get it why thathappens, but this career, it's
like you get these likeimmediate, like you said,
bonuses or promotions oranything like that.
And you're like, oh, look, thisis so great.
You don't really level up inrelationships, so to speak, like
that.
So I think a lot of people throwthemselves into their career,
(10:36):
into their job, or even theirvolunteering, whatever it looks
like for you, to kind of notlook at the connection piece,
the the bigger picture.
So for you, at what point intime did you start noticing,
like, wait a second, I'm notfulfilled here?
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
A lot of it started happening when like I would go
meet friends once in a while fordinner or drinks or something,
and they would say, Oh, so howare you?
What's new?
And I literally had nothing toadd to the conversation other
than work stuff, which believeme, nobody else cared about.
I mean, it's not like they'relike, that's great for you, but
(11:09):
I mean, no one in my personalcircle is sitting there waiting
to hear about my latest projector my latest, you know,
whatever.
And I thought, God, you know, isthis all I have to bring to the
table?
Like, is everything that I'mdoing just about work?
But I kept pushing it downbecause the alternative was,
(11:30):
yeah, you've wasted all thistime pouring all your energy
into work and now you have thisreally empty personal life.
But that was horrible to admit,right?
And really painful to kind of gothere.
So I was like, no, no, no.
I'm just gonna do this for thenext couple years more.
You know, I'll just do thisuntil I, you know, hit 15
minutes.
Just a few more years.
Just a few more years, just afew more years.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
So, what was the turning point for you?
When did you this?
You said this was about for 10years or so.
So it's hearing like this was,you know, when you're in like
now you're getting into your 40sand you're still doing all this.
So, what was that turning pointfor you where you thought, wait
a second, I need to startbalancing my career and my
connections more?
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Yeah.
Funny things happened, all kindof one on top of the other.
And it's just, you know, crazyhow that works sometimes.
So I was in this position.
It was my highest corporatelevel job.
I mean, I was reporting directlyinto our chief revenue officer
of this global, again,multi-billion dollar company.
And I had worked with him at theprevious company.
(12:29):
He had brought me with him tothis new place.
And it was so stressful.
And it was a UK-based company.
So I was working easily 14 hoursa day.
I mean, easily.
And it was just you have Europe,then you have the US, then you
have Asia, and you're just kindof doing all these things.
But ultimately, I had nothingtied to my name because
(12:51):
everything was just going to myboss or the team or the this.
And I started to feel reallydisconnected from the work I was
doing.
It was no longer motivating me.
The stress was outweighing thesort of dopamine rewards, if you
will.
And I thought, God, you know, isthis what am I doing?
But you wake up and you're atwork and you're just kind of on
(13:13):
this hamster wheel, right?
And then a funny thing happened.
Right around that time, I waslike, you know what?
I hadn't dated for a while.
I had gotten out of arelationship.
I was single for a couple ofyears, just a date here, a date
there.
And I was like, I'm gonnaactually date.
I'm gonna date.
I'm gonna go not necessarilyfind a boyfriend, but just get
out there and just put my handin the game and just see what is
(13:36):
out there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
See what is out there.
Yeah.
So what did you end up doing?
Did you go online dating?
Did you try like in-personstuff?
What did you end up doing?
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah, so I did both actually.
I was online for a hot minuteand then I realized that it's
pretty much like a part-timejob.
So I was like, okay, well, thisisn't for me.
But I met a couple of reallynice guys through that.
Once my friends figured outthat, oh, you know, I'm kind of
back in the game of maybedating, they set me up a couple
times.
And again, every guy I met wasreally, really nice, but no real
(14:07):
chemistry, no real connection.
It just felt good to be pursued,but it was that sort of my ego
was fulfilled, but that wasreally it.
You know, there was no realsubstance behind that.
And again, no offense to any ofthese guys I met.
They were all great.
They just weren't for me, and Icertainly wasn't for them.
And then as my work startedgetting really, really, really,
(14:28):
really stressful, and you know,the pandemic was now looming,
and now my boss was most likelygoing to be, you know, pushed
out, and all these changes werehappening.
I was at dinner one night.
After dinner, my friend, my bestfriend and I were out.
We went to a bar right nextdoor, and I met this guy, and we
(14:52):
just started talking andexchanged numbers at the end of
the night and started dating,and that was it.
And now I'm with him.
I've been with him for, youknow, ever since that time, and
that was it.
And now he's like my lifepartner and it's wonderful.
But everything at work wasfalling apart, and then my
personal life started to kind ofrise up, saying, like, hey, this
(15:14):
could be something, but itwasn't easy.
It wasn't an easy situation, andthe hardest part was for me to
mentally shift into, hey, I needto feed this other side of my
life that I've ignored on andoff for for many years, but for
so long.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
Yeah.
Can we talk about how you methim a little bit?
Could I could I like like getnosy?
Okay, because that's so cute.
Okay, because I gotta tell you,I've been doing this for a long
time.
I help women date all the time.
Like, I again I also just wantto tell anyone out there
listening, what happened toJulie is still like hitting the
lottery.
It does not happen like this allthe time anymore, ladies.
So, like, but it can happen.
(15:51):
So, what do you think it was inthat moment that put you out
there to kind of say, Hey, I'mopen and I'm single?
And like, did he ask you foryour number?
Did you ask him for his?
Like, I want to dive down intothis.
How did it happen?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah.
So it was funny.
So he was out with his friend.
Now, this was a neighborhoodthat I actually lived in.
Okay.
He lived far enough away.
I mean, you know, not so farthat it was going to be a plane
ride, but on the other side oftown, let's say.
And he was just therecoincidentally.
And what happened was it was aFriday night, and it was a bar
(16:23):
that all of a sudden, at somepoint, you know, right around
that 10 o'clock time frame, itbecame really crowded, really
loud, very young.
And so the four of us, my friendand me, and his friend and him,
we got kind of pushed into acorner.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Just like randomly?
Like you guys hadn't beentalking yet.
This was just kind of random.
Okay, cool.
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
We were just looking for a quiet corner because we
were like so out of place there,you know?
So we kind of like huddled.
And then when the four of youare in this little corner, you
make eye contact, you say hi, westarted talking.
And then for whatever reason, Isaw this guy, and he was just
not coming on to me, notaggressive, not trying to hit on
(17:07):
me or anything like that in anyway.
We just happened to say, like,oh, hey, how are you?
My name is this, my name isthis, oh, it's great, you know.
And the conversation justorganically happened.
And we sat down and we talkedfor probably over an hour.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Oh, really?
Wait, what was your girlfrienddoing during this time?
What was it?
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
She was just talking to Yeah, she was just talking to
his friend who was not at alllooking for anything because he
was married.
He was like, Yeah, oh my god,great wingmen.
SPEAKER_01 (17:34):
You guys have good friends.
This is good.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, and then they just itstarted talking.
But like at this moment, youcould have pushed him away.
You could have been like, Idon't have time for something
like this.
You could have, right?
But you didn't.
It seemed like at this point intime things were starting to
kind of work together to whereyou were open for this.
Is that is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
That's exactly right.
I do firmly believe that if Ihadn't, you know, months before
kind of decided like I'm goingto date, yeah.
I'm just gonna go out there andsee what happens, not look for
anything specific, not have agoal like, hey, by this date,
I'm gonna have a boyfriend,nothing like that.
But just I'm gonna put myselfout there energetically, see
what happens.
If I hadn't done that, I don'tthink Gary and I would have ever
(18:16):
met.
Or if we had, we would have justbrushed shoulders, and that's
kind of it.
And I think just by beingopen-minded and looking at this
guy who was, again, not flirtingwith me, not trying to, you
know, hit on me right away, notbeing aggressive at all, but
just continuing the conversationinstead of like, oh, okay,
(18:37):
great.
It was nice meeting you, have agood evening, and just keeping
that conversation going, I thinkmade a difference because that
signaled, like, hey, I'm notlooking to just hook up with
someone.
I'm not on some kind of agenda,like, are you married?
Do you have you know, like thiskind of 20 questions with him?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
You mean you weren't planning your wedding out with
him as he's sitting theretalking to you?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
Just like on this mission, you know?
Yeah.
And just letting it organicallyhappen, I think, signaled to him
that, hey, you know, she'ssomeone I can talk to, she's
easygoing, no pressure.
But also we can have aconversation.
It's not just you look great,you know, what are you up to?
(19:21):
Let's get out of here, kind ofthing.
Right.
So it was, I think that givingit that time, that little bit of
hour plus to just tell me aboutyou.
Here's what I'm about, andhaving that early phase
conversation of introducingourselves to each other really
made a difference.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
And then did he ask for your number at the end of
the night?
Is that what happened?
Yeah.
Or did you have to like kind oflike poke him and be like, are
you gonna ask or what?
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
Like no, so we all walked out together and he asked
for my number.
So we exchanged numbers.
I was sitting there the nextday.
I'm like, if this guy doesn'tcall me, something is definitely
wrong.
Like, I need to, you know, lightsome candles or something.
There's no way this guy's notgonna call me.
And then it was 10 o'clock, 11o'clock, 12 o'clock, and I'm
(20:06):
like, no word from this dude.
I'm like, what is going on?
I thought then, like, muchlater, two o'clock, three
o'clock in the afternoon, I gotthis long text from him, like,
hey, I had a great time speakingwith you.
If you're open to it, I'd loveto take you out to dinner.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Yes.
Okay, so also any guy listeningright now, because I know
there's a lot of guys that liketo listen to try to be like,
okay, but how do I get her thisright here?
See, he didn't come on toostrong.
Like, he waited to get to knowyou.
He asked for your number, hewrote you something nice, and he
asked you out immediately.
Did that feel good?
Did that feel like uh like beingpursued and you were like, Okay,
yes, this is it.
(20:42):
He wasn't like, oh, it was niceto hang out, and then that's it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean, and the guys I dated before, again,
great guys, but not all of them,but some of them were like, Hey,
what are you up to via text?
And you're like, Oh, I'm justhanging out.
Like five lines at that point intime.
Yeah, is there is is theresomething else following up this
question?
Because I didn't want to carryon this, you know, week-long
(21:08):
text conversation for what?
Like, what's the point?
So when I got that text fromhim, I thought, this is a
grown-up.
Like he's an adult man.
This is a man.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Who's not playing games?
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
We really don't have high standards.
We just want grown-ups, youknow.
It really helps.
He's not playing games.
He so he asked you out on adate.
Did he like say, Hey, can I takeyou out this weekend?
Is that what happened?
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Yeah, he's like, Hey, you know, I'm going out of
town next week, but I'd love totake you out to dinner before.
Are you free on this night?
I can come to you, let me knowwhere you want to go.
I mean, it was so it was very sohe just made it really easy.
He left the door open for me ifI wanted to do something
different, but otherwise he justsaid, Hey, you know, let's meet
(21:53):
up and get together.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
So it was it was really, and then you guys went
and got dinner and you just keptgetting to know one another.
Was there any time, like whenyou first met him, let's say in
the bar, was he your type?
Like, is he someone that youtypically find attractive, or
was it kind of interesting atfirst?
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Yeah, I mean, I think he was, but I've never had
that one type.
Like I've dated all differentsorts of guys.
I don't care about height, Idon't care about dark hair,
light hair, you know.
I've dated people of allbackgrounds.
So for me, it's more, you know,I certainly found him
attractive, and that was a bigthing, but I didn't have that
(22:28):
one, like, it has to be a guythat looks like this that I find
attractive.
I was much more open.
But he is a handsome guy, sothat helped for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Definitely helps.
And I but I like to hear thatbecause sometimes what happens
is women can get in these stuckmindsets, right?
But he needs to have a beard orhe has to have brown hair, or I
really don't like, you know,guys with a tummy, or he has to
have big ar, you know, somethinglike that.
And that's where I kind of amlike, but you can see here with
Julie, she was so open towhatever it was the universe
brought to her that at thatpoint in time she's just kind of
(22:58):
open.
And so she didn't push him awayagain because oh, he had brown
eyes instead of blue eyes.
So we want to be careful withthat kind of stuff too, so as to
not miss out on what could be,you know, your life partner for
right now while this is goingon.
Aw, thank you so much forsharing all of this with me,
Julie.
I love a good dating story, it'sso fun.
So so you and you and yourpartner, you're dating now.
Is this after the pandemic?
(23:18):
Is this happening kind of likeduring give me time life?
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
We met literally right before shutdown.
Oh my gosh.
Like I think shutdown happenedin March, and I think we met
like February.
I mean, like right, rightbefore.
Oh, good timing.
And so, yeah, perfect timing.
And so everything kind of got alittle bit elongated because
shutdown was happening, theworld was crazy, we were trying
(23:41):
to get to know each other, andby the way, everything is
closed.
You can't go see a movie, youcan't go out to a restaurant
anymore.
I mean, all that was going on,and we wanted to take it slow
anyway.
I mean, for him, he was comingoff of a very long-term marriage
where his wife had passed theyear before, and he had two
girls who were older, but youknow, we were very sensitive to
(24:05):
that.
He certainly wasn't looking todate at all.
And so we were planning ontaking it slow, and the pandemic
just sort of forced that pace tohappen, which honestly I'm
grateful for.
You know, I really wanted to berespectful to his situation and
of course his girls who arewonderful humans and you know,
and and really take it slow.
(24:25):
So it all kind of worked out.
But the other lesson in this isif it's right, it'll happen.
It doesn't have to happen in thetimeline you think it's going
to.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Good point.
I love that.
It doesn't have to happen in thetimeline you think it's gonna
happen.
What a secure thought process toreally be, you can almost feel
this way in which Julie'sreleasing attachment to
outcomes, right?
So that's what we talk about alot, which is how can we really
like live in this hope forhaving something and yet at the
same time live withoutattachment to it?
And that's secure attachmentright there is you went into
(24:57):
dating, you weren't like, I needto be dating a guy, you know,
within three months and thenwe're gonna be married or
anything like that.
You just kind of released it andsaid, I'm open, what's going on?
He reached out to you, you'reopen, let's see what's going on.
And then you could have, couldyou imagine?
And I mean, I've definitely beenthis way where it's like, oh,
thanks a lot, universe.
I finally met a good guy, andnow you're gonna go a global
pandemic on me.
(25:17):
Like, but like you can hear inyour voice, there's no victim
positioning there.
There's no level of like, why isthis happening to me?
It's more, okay, here's a guy Imet.
We're gonna take this low.
This is what's gonna happen, andwe're gonna go along it with
each idea kind of as we go.
So as you're going along withall this, and you're dating him,
pandemic's happening.
(25:38):
I think I heard you say therewas kind of another shift,
another mindset shift, anothermaybe breakdown, you know,
whatever it is you want to callit.
Talk me through that and how youkind of found yourself again.
Because I know you talk a lotabout finding this journey back
to your self-worth in the book.
So I want to hear about that alittle bit too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
Yeah, you know, it's this really interesting thing.
And for the longest time Icouldn't put words to it.
But as I was diving into thisnew relationship, which was
really important, and me hangingon to this belief that if this
is meant to work out, it'll workout however way it does.
It doesn't have to be fast forit to be the right thing.
(26:16):
As that's happening, myprofessional life is pretty much
crumbling apart because layoffsare happening.
I mean, thankfully I got, youknow, a few months' notice
because my boss had left thecompany.
I was definitely his right-handlieutenant.
So I and others kind of in thatpart were on the layoff list.
Pandemic is raging.
(26:37):
And they were like, you know,Julie, we really love you at
this company.
You can network internally andfind another position.
There are lots of people whoprobably would want to hire you
as long as they have budget andheadcount.
And I was like, okay, yeah,that's great, that's great.
And I literally did not lift afinger to make that happen.
Because even though logically Iknew that was the secure thing
(27:00):
to do, the safe thing to do,guarantees income, who knows
what the world is gonna be atthat point.
No one knew anything aboutanything.
So the smart move would havebeen to, yeah, network
internally, find and landanother soft position somewhere
inside and write this out, seewhere it goes.
And I was so unmotivated to dothat.
(27:21):
So unmotivated that I didn'tsend a single email.
I didn't make a single phonecall.
I was just writing out thislayoff with nothing else lined
up after that, by the way.
Like I was so in this comatosestate.
And I think that's what burnoutwas.
And I didn't know it was burnoutat the time, but I was so jazzed
(27:45):
in my personal life and soexhausted in my professional
life that I lifted not a fingerhere in my work life, but on my
personal life, I was giving it alot of care and nurturing and
you know, patience and kind ofdoing all that stuff.
And then the layoff date, ofcourse, came.
They told me it would come andit eventually did.
(28:06):
And I thought, ah, what do Ineed to do now that I'm not a
badged employee anymore?
When I meet people, how do Iexplain who I am?
You know, I mean, a lot of timesthat's how people introduce
themselves.
Oh, my name is Julie.
I do this for a living, right?
And that's so part of how peoplemeet you.
(28:27):
And I thought, no, you know, ifI'm not gonna do that, then who
am I really?
And what I came around tothrough a lot of coaching myself
and receiving coaching for thefirst time at that point, I
realized that all this time Ihad been leading with ego, but
not this idea of self-worth orself-value.
(28:48):
And I had mixed those two up.
I thought if I have a big ego,that means I value myself and I
think I'm worth a lot.
When in fact, that's not true atall.
In fact, the bigger ego meansyou're trying to cover up and
fill all your insecurities.
So you do it with these externalrewards and accolades and, you
(29:09):
know, chasing after that goldstar is what I say in my book.
Because I didn't have the solidfoundation of what is my
self-worth, what is myself-value.
So I kept covering it up withall this ego-driven actions and
behaviors.
And it took me a long time tocome around to that realization
and say, if I let go of this, myego goes with it, right?
(29:33):
It just goes.
And that's out the window.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
It's powerful, but scary.
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Yeah, and that's really scary.
But once I let go of that, andonce I let go of having to be
validated by others, by my jobtitle, by my paycheck, then what
do I have?
And it was that journey ofgetting back to who I am and
what's important to me.
What do I like doing?
Do I have a sense of purposewith my day?
(30:00):
Now, don't get me wrong.
I mean, I I do think there isreal value in people who live
the corporate life because thebetter you do, that means your
company is healthy, that meansit gets to employee people, and
that means families get fed, andyou know, there's a a work and
community around it.
I think all that's reallyvaluable.
So I'm not poo-pooing any kindof corporate life.
(30:21):
It just simply wasn't ultimatelyfor me because of the way I
lived it and I approached it inthis very ego-fueled external
validation-seeking way.
Because of that, that wasn'tright for me.
Other people I know are outthere doing, you know, great
things and doing it the rightway.
It just wasn't my story.
(30:41):
That's that's all that was, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
I love that.
That's such a real way to reallyput it though, because it's so
true that just like inrelationships, not everything's
right for everyone.
And and what is it that you'rebringing into your career, your
job?
We even see it in the coachingworld a lot of times.
A lot of people come into thecoaching world driven by their
ego.
I love the way you're sayingthat.
I love the way you're reallyexplaining the difference
between your ego and yourself-worth and that they're not
(31:04):
the same thing.
But I hear this sometimes too.
Like, you know, my clients willcome into me, you know, and
they'll be like, Well, I knowthat, you know, I'm a good
catcher.
I know how amazing I am, butlike no other man seems to like
really see this.
And it's like when we reallylike kind of come down more and
dig deeper, we kind of reallysee, no, that's just a front.
You know, they're there reallythese things that you think you
can offer to your relationships,those that's your ego.
(31:25):
It's really like, are you justinherently worthy of love?
Not what you have to bring toit.
So I love how you bring thatdifference up into all of this
because it really helps forpeople to see, like, oh, oh,
okay, this is my ego over here,but this is my self-worth.
So I want to ask you a quickquestion for the women listening
right now, and they feelexhausted or they feel
(31:45):
disconnected, and they kind oflike something clicked in them
right now, as you're hearingJulie talk, and they're like, Oh
shit, maybe it's been my egothis whole time.
Like, what would you say to herto start the process of figuring
out how to stop beingego-driven?
SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
Yeah, and it's so difficult because ultimately
it's like old habits die hard,and the gravitational pull is to
your ego because it feels like asafe place.
It has this voice of like, ohno, you're great.
You're, you know what I mean?
And because of that, there's thelure of if you can go back to
(32:22):
your ego, you feel like, oh no,no, no, this is where I'm
supposed to be.
This is my safety net, this ismy safety blanket.
But ultimately it works soagainst you, but it takes a long
time to kind of figure that out.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
Okay, so there was one quick question I wanted to
ask you about, which was yousaid something in your book,
which I really liked, which wasthere is no quick fix, but there
is a way.
And I was wondering if you couldexpand on what that means for
someone just starting out intheir healing journey.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
You know, we're taught that fast is better.
And find the shortcuts, youknow, fake it till you make it.
You know, there are all theseideas out there that push you
towards this do it faster, skipover, leapfrog, you know, all
these words are seen aspositive.
Unfortunately, when you do that,what happens is you are building
(33:07):
a house of cards, basically,that you're trying to stand on.
And that does not work becauseif you don't have a solid
foundation, ultimately you'regoing to fall.
That's what happened to me.
No question about it.
When you're going at 100 milesper hour, and when you feel like
I have to get there, I have toget there fast and I have to get
there tomorrow, it can feelreally overwhelming.
(33:28):
And it's hard to take a pauseand say, hey, hold on, like I
need to just take a breath andtake inventory of what I'm good
at, what I'm doing well, where Iwant to go, what I want to learn
next.
And sometimes that's just a fewminutes a day of just pausing
and taking a sticky note andwriting an idea down, or having
(33:51):
a text conversation with afriend over, you know, coffee or
a glass of wine or something,and just that's all it takes.
But we're so taught to just go,go, go, go, go that we don't
even pause for a few minutes forourselves to just do it.
The danger in this is if you'rejust going, going, going, and if
(34:11):
you're not staying in touch withwho you are and what you're
trying to do and what feelsright to you, not what feels
comfortable, because sometimesyou do need to get out of your
comfort zone and challengeyourself, but what your
intuitions or your instincts aresaying, like, oh, I want to go
there.
I'm curious about this, or Ifeel like there's something
(34:32):
there that I want to, you know,go, go explore.
If you don't let yourself dothat, what'll happen is you'll
get to a certain point andyou'll look back and say, wow,
I'm now lost.
I've lost the breadcrumbs.
I don't know really where I'mgoing.
I'm just now going with thetide.
Sometimes it's okay to go withthe flow when you feel like, I
(34:53):
don't want to make up my mindright now.
I don't want to dictate what'snext.
I'm just going to do what feelsright.
That's different than justmindlessly going along without
stopping every once in a whileand asking yourself, hey, am I
doing the right thing?
Am I taking note of what I'mactually doing well?
Am I pausing to getreinforcement and validation in
(35:14):
a work sense that could comefrom your manager, your peers?
It's good to take stock of, hey,am I kind of where I need to be?
And am I asking myself the rightquestions?
Take all of that time foryourself.
And when I say all of that time,it's not take three months off,
go on sabbatical, come back.
(35:35):
I mean it's just a few minutes aday.
That's all you really need todo.
Um we're taught as leaders laterin life that, hey, you know, be
an authentic leader, have agenuine voice, be a trusted
leader.
Okay, well, if you weren'ttaught to practice authenticity
from the beginning of yourcareer, how are you supposed to
(35:57):
find it 20 years later?
That doesn't make any sense.
So you need to practice it now.
Stay in touch with who you are,be authentic to yourself.
Doesn't mean don't stretchyourself.
Definitely do that and staycurious and stay open, but don't
lose touch with what's importantto you and who you are.
And ignore all the voices aroundyou that say, Oh, forget about
(36:21):
that.
Everyone's going there, you gothere.
Maybe you should, because that'swhat you want to do, but maybe
it's not where you want to go,you know, and that's okay.
And it's okay to explore thosedifferent avenues.
And the one thing to remember isyou already bring a lot to the
table.
Whether this is day one on jobone or day a thousand in job 30,
(36:44):
it doesn't matter.
You already are strong, you havevalue, you have worth.
You know, there is somethingspecial that you bring to the
table.
Otherwise, you wouldn't bethere.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
I love that.
You already have something tobring to the table.
That is so though, that's sobeautiful, Julie.
And I love, I love that so much.
And as we're wrapping up here, Ijust want to talk again about
your book, Thrive and Shine,which is ignite your career
journey and confidence withgrace.
So I really recommend that ifanyone there is a professional
in that kind of career world andthey want to pick this book up
(37:16):
just to hear her story.
Like you can hear, she's abeautiful storyteller.
You just want to learn moreabout what she's been through,
grab it and just help you.
There's this thing that we talkabout, which is we can learn
through other people, right?
It's why I have coaching callson my podcast.
It's why I bring in interviews,it's why I want to hear the
people I interview.
I want to hear their story.
Not just how to do things, butwhat did you do?
(37:39):
Because through that, we get tokind of pick out what what do we
want?
Like, oh, I really like howJulie did this over here.
I'm gonna pick that out of herstory.
And that's what I recommend youguys do.
So you can go, it's a beautifulcover, by the way.
If you guys want to check itout, you can get it on Amazon.
That's right, Amazon, we can getthis.
Julie, as well, is over here inCalifornia with me.
So we will be doing some sort ofbook launch for both of our
(37:59):
books coming up soon.
So as soon as I have moreinformation about that, guys, I
will absolutely let you know.
You can come and meet Julie withme if you want to come down to
the LA area with me.
I think it'll be really fun.
Our publishers are gonna comeout, throw a big party for all
of us.
We're gonna try to get moreCalifornia authors up in our
community, aren't we, Julie?
Because we need some more WestCoast love.
That's right.
Right?
But tell us more about how canpeople find you?
(38:22):
Instagram, anything else,website, tell us more.
SPEAKER_00 (38:25):
Yep, my website is Julie Sung, J-U-L-E-E-S-U-N-G
dot com.
And all my social media linksare there.
I'm very active on social media,as you know, Jen, and I'm a big
follow-up of yours because youdo great work there.
My Instagram is at Julie'sJ-U-L-E-E-S 94.
SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
Beautiful.
All right, everyone.
So go follow Julie on theInstagram.
Go check out her website, gograb her book.
And Julie, is there just onelast message you would like for
the readers to take away fromyour book before we wrap up?
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
Yes, uh, thank you.
What I would like to say is havegrace for yourself.
If you're not gracious withyourself and give yourself the
room and space to be who youare, you cannot be gracious with
others.
And that's true for everyrelationship.
So the most importantrelationship you have is with
yourself.
So show yourself plenty of loveand grace.
SPEAKER_01 (39:17):
What a beautiful way to end this.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast today, Julian.
I'll speak with you later.
Take care.
Thank you so much.
Bye-bye.
As we wrap up today'sconversation, always remember
that healing is a journey, not adestination.
And it is an honor to be a partof your healing journey.
If you want to dig deeper intothe topics we covered today, be
(39:40):
sure to head over to our shownotes, where you can find all of
the valuable informationmentioned in today's episode
right there.
And please remember to rate,review, and subscribe if you
enjoyed today's podcast.
Your feedback means the world tous and helps others discover our
podcast.
Until next time, remember tospeak up and speak honest.
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