March 23, 2025 • 46 mins
What happens when you bring together two veteran educators with a combined 85 years of classroom experience? You get a masterclass in how American education has evolved—and what remains fundamentally unchanged.
Barb Houschel (entering her 49th year of teaching) and Angie share their journey from Catholic school classrooms with limited resources to navigating the complex landscape of modern public education. Their candid conversation reveals how teachers have become much more than instructors—they're advocates, counselors, and sometimes second parents to their students.
The discussion takes us through pivotal shifts in educational priorities, from the implementation of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to the chronic underfunding that leaves teachers constantly fighting for adequate resources. These educators don't hold back when addressing how "gentle parenting" trends and technology have transformed classroom dynamics, often creating new challenges in social skill development that became glaringly apparent after pandemic disruptions.
Perhaps most enlightening is their perspective on sex education curriculum—dispelling widespread misinformation with their firsthand experience implementing age-appropriate, systematic instruction with strong parent communication. Their thoughtful approach reveals how effective teachers build trust with both students and families when handling sensitive topics.
Despite the growing demands and diminishing support for educators, both teachers share the profound rewards that have sustained their lengthy careers: seeing former students grow into incredible adults, knowing they played some small part in that journey. As Barb beautifully states, "When I lay my head on the pillow at night, I know that I've spent my life in an endeavor that is worth doing."
Whether you're a parent, educator, or simply someone who cares about the future of education, this conversation offers valuable perspective from those who've dedicated their lives to shaping generations of young minds. Subscribe, share, and join the conversation on our social channels @BlondeBrunetteandaMic.
Are you ready to take your "spiciness" to the next level?!
Connect with Julee & Michele on Instagram @spicy_midlife_women and send a DM about what resonated most during this episode so they can encourage you with steps forward in your own life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We're going to get schooled.
We're going to get old schooled.
Before we get started, can Ijust give a little shout out to
our community of listeners?
I just want to thank everybodyfor joining us out on all the
socials, of course Facebook,instagram, tiktok you will find
us a Blonde Brunette and a Mike.
And, better yet, go on over toYouTube, subscribe and follow,
(01:08):
share it, download all thethings, because we are just
continuing to grow and we aresuper appreciative and we love
that you all are listening, sothank you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, yeah, we're thrilled to have you guys on
today.
So we have two wonderfuleducators that we just
determined have 85 years ofexperience between the two of
them, even though they're eachonly 29 years old.
So one of them I am, I am veryproud and honored to say is my
sister, angie, and then, ofcourse, barb Houshull, who was
(01:38):
our teacher, and she justreminded us that we're only 10
years apart.
So there is that.
So, with that in mind, barb,can you give us a little bit of
a little bit of intro on yourexperience and you know how you
started in teaching?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, this is year 49 .
And so I'm going to try to makeit in a nutshell.
I started my career teaching inCatholic schools in the Seattle
area.
The first part of my career waslargely what we would call
middle school now seven andeight.
But I also taught for two yearsat a Catholic girls' high
(02:17):
school and then my last job inthe Archdiocese.
I had the opportunity I'dgotten more and more into
working with students withspecial needs and that grew out
of a lot of years of beingfrustrated when I would think at
(02:37):
the end of the year, you know,was there anything that I did
for that kid?
I mean it would just prey on mymind that I did for that kid?
I mean it would just prey on mymind.
And I was at one school we wereable to connect with a doctoral
student and she had written,co-wrote, a book called what
Works, and it was my firstintroduction to how making
(02:57):
simple accommodations forstudents that address some of
their learning differences was ahuge factor in increasing their
learning and their performanceand then, of course, their you
know just their happiness inschool.
So then I went to my lastposition in the Archdiocese and
(03:18):
an opportunity came up.
I continued to work in thatarea, just as a middle school
teacher, and a position came upto be head of their kind of
learning resource program.
They were the only school inthe Archdiocese at that point
that had that kind of a program,so that prompted me to go back
to school.
(03:38):
I went to Seattle U where Igraduated from, and I got my
master's in special ed over thenext you know kind of five years
.
Then, in 2020, after we had beenshut down in that March because
of the pandemic, I had alreadydecided that I was going to
retire.
But that kind of sealed thedeal and partly it was.
(04:02):
I was retiring not really somuch from education but from
that particular job.
Being a special ed teacherduring the pandemic was a
nightmare.
But even before that there werechanges in students that I was
trying to work with not enoughsupport.
(04:22):
I mean it was crazy and itwasn't ever the work I did with
kids.
I just could not continue toconstantly feel like it was a
battle every day, and not withmy students but with
administrators, with thedistrict, with everybody.
So I made that decision and so Ifound a new niche and I worked
(04:45):
for the last five years doingmostly long-term sub-positions
for moms, you know, on maternityleave, and some of them were
quite lengthy.
So, and then now there is a now?
I recently just accepted aposition through Western
(05:08):
Washington University that's ina partnership with the Everett
School District and I amteaching teachers.
I am teaching teachers in therein a two year residency program
and it's a paid residency forthe final year.
So it's been, um, that was sortof always, uh, a dream of mine
(05:34):
and I've mentored people allalong in my career.
But this is a really excitingopportunity and I'm really happy
nice transition to To the nextgeneration of educators.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
So we were saying your last role was teaching
other teachers, and so are youstill doing that?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, I just started in December.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But it sounds like it's the very precise into the
career that you were wanting.
It's kind of, like you said,bringing things full circle like
teaching in Catholic school.
Again, things like that Give ussome insight into your history.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So I was a product of Catholic schools too.
So I started my studentteaching in Catholic schools and
then it seemed like justnatural progression to move to a
full time when I got mycertificate.
So I started.
I actually replaced a teacherwho was on a leave, so they just
wanted someone young, someonefun, who would do a lot of art,
(06:52):
go on field trips, just work onmore of the personal side of the
kids rather than the academics.
They were a very strong class.
I had probably four staffmember kids in my class.
I spent most of my career inthird grade but I spent the
first 10 years in the Catholicschools and then realized that I
(07:14):
needed to look out for benefits.
I needed to have a little bitmore challenge in my career.
So I moved to the Catholic orthe public schools.
Then right around pandemic timeI looped with my third graders
and moved up to fourth.
So I've spent about 10 years inCatholic school and I've been
about I guess what 12 years inthe public schools.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Can I ask you, Angie, having just said that, what are
the differences as far asresources, student needs, that
kind of a thing that you'venoticed between public and
private school?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I didn't know any different when I was teaching
the Catholic school.
You know you make do with whatyou have and so you know
businesses would go out ofbusiness and they would donate
their letterhead and we wouldturn it over and use that to
send notes home or to use forcopy paper, and you may do.
You did more group work, you.
(08:15):
There just aren't as manyresources available and at the
time the tuition, I think, wason the lower side, so there
wasn't a lot of extra money forfinding teachers, specifically
reading teachers or specificintervention type teachers.
You know, when I went to thepublic school it was great
because they had people thatwere specifically designated to
(08:38):
work with any type of child whohas some learning difficulty,
not just ones that are on IEP,not our special ed students,
because that's more federallybased where they have to have
the specially designedinstruction.
But it was.
You know even now you findthose resources available, so
take some of the pressure off.
So you never had to improvise alot with you when you were
(09:00):
teaching in Catholic school,because it's always been that
the kids in Catholic school orin Catholic school, because it's
always been that the kids inCatholic school or in private
school at least what myexperience was.
They're more going to be cutout of middle of the road.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They're not going to need the same types of resources
.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think when I was in there I found that to be pretty
true.
There weren't a lot of kidswith special needs because we
didn't have resources for them,and if we accept them, you have
to provide those.
So, um, yeah, so we, they weremore middle of the road or the
um.
The continuum wasn't as longwhen I was there, I think my
(09:40):
kids were in catholic school orK through eight that they had
kids that needed more attentionin different ways, and I don't
recall specifics, but it reallydrew away from the learning
experience, I think, from otherkids because they weren't
necessarily equipped to handleyou know, those specific types
(10:02):
of learning situations.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It was more kind of like middle of the road so to
speak.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So you feel like you've had more resources
available than in public school.
Oh yeah, but it sounds likeyour job had changed based on,
maybe, the budget, like you weremoved from different places.
Sounds like that was the casewith Barb.
Maybe too.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Like a levy, didn't pass or something like that
happened.
The law originally thatstudents who have that.
You know our educational systemis different than most in the
world in that every single childis entitled to a free and
appropriate public education,and so a law was passed in 1972,
(11:00):
I believe it was that required.
You know.
It basically is the first.
It was the first version ofwhat is IDEA, the Individuals
with Disabilities Education Act,and that has been reauthorized
numerous times.
But originally it was the ideathat the federal government was
going to fully pay for thoseservices because they're
(11:23):
expensive.
When you're dealing with this,what we call, as Angie mentioned
, the continuum of services.
But what's happening now isthat the federal government has
never paid more than 10% of thecost of that.
That falls to the states.
And so in the state ofWashington there was a huge case
a couple years ago called theMcCleary decision, and that
(11:47):
reinforced the notion that thestate of Washington's primary
commitment within the budgetingprocess is to education.
At least 51% of the state'sbudget is supposed to be
directed towards education.
Well, that has fallen awayagain and you're going to see
more stuff legally come about,but given that we're now in a
(12:09):
situation where things are beingcut at the federal level
without a lot of surgicalprecision.
I think we all know thatthere's waste everywhere and
it's good to root it out, butthat's not what's happening.
So class sizes are going toincrease, students are
definitely not going to get thelevel of service that they need
(12:29):
to make progress, and the thingthat really makes it difficult
for teachers is that what'schanged in the 50 years or
Angie's you know how, 35 orwhatever it is is that the
demand for what is taught isincreasing exponentially.
I mean, I remember learningabout a Venn diagram when I was
(12:50):
in college.
Okay, well, I can tell you,first graders know what a Venn
diagram is now.
So there's this acceleration ofcurriculum and you know, just
in order to keep up with thepace of how technology and that
revolution has put demands.
I remember I was on a citizenadvisory council in special
(13:12):
education and they came in anddid a budget thing and it was
presented and the person was notin any way intending to sound
this way, but there were numbersof people that sat on this
board who had students withsignificant issues, and so the
notion in presenting it was well, we have to take this money
from the general fund and so wehave to put it over here to pay
(13:34):
for those students and so therest of the kids get less.
That's the way it was presentedand when you think about it,
that's not a good look.
And when you think about it,that's not a good look, all
(14:03):
right.
And the thing that's, you know,kind of is so concerning to me
is that in the society that I'velived in from all of my life,
the thing that's critical is youhave to have an educated
electorate to have a democraticnation.
And they knew that back in thecolonial times there was
something they called Republicansmall r motherhood, because
most kids were educated by theirmothers and yet they knew that
the ability to read and writeand do some you know basic math,
that was critical and thathasn't changed.
And that's one of the reasonswhy I feel so committed to what
(14:25):
I'm doing now is that you knowwe're coming out of a pandemic
and, quite frankly, what they'refinding is that people are
going into education and theydon't last.
They're in there for maybe,maybe three years and they're
like I'm out of here.
And part of it is that there'salso been other changes.
You know like there's changesin the way kids are parented.
(14:48):
You know, I would say thatprobably all of us grew up in.
We had warm demand, theirparents too.
It's just that's part of thereason why I want to do this is
that, you know, people often sayto me well, how have you done
this for 49 years?
I said, well, either I'm sickor I must really love it.
And I do really love it.
(15:09):
It's defined a purpose in mylife, you know.
For me it, you know, kind offills the bucket, and I want to
make sure that there's anothergeneration of teachers that are
resilient, that are you know,that are going to fight for kids
, because the biggest thing weare is an advocate.
Do not, do not poke that withme, because that's when Barbara
(15:31):
Hauschel that you all talk about, that's when she emerges.
You know, I'm very flexible, Iam a team player, but you know,
do not not respect my studentsand the needs of their families.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So Well, and that's the thing I've noticed, like
with Angie, just conversationsand things that we've had are
just me watching what's beenhappening over the last five
years, let's just say with thepandemic kind of starting.
A lot of that is kids seem likewith through no fault of their
own, they're behind you knowthey're socially maybe a little
(16:10):
bit behind because they didn'thave that interaction with their
other students.
I know you have a lot ofstudents or at least I know
Angie had in the past that haveEnglish as a second language.
So there's that barrier in theclassrooms as well.
But a lot of the things thatyou guys deal with have nothing
to do with your class plans.
They have to do with theinteraction with parents or
(16:33):
trying to navigate the classroomand the children.
So there is a good learningenvironment.
Do you feel like that, withtechnology has changed and
become more difficult, or do youfeel like technology has made
that easier?
Well, definitely, I think it'smade it harder.
As much as you know, cellphones and everything else have
(16:55):
made lives easier.
I would just as soon, I think,go back to how it was before.
I think there was moreinteraction with parents and
kids.
I think that there was morerespect for the process, the
profession, the people in theprofession.
I think it's been really easywith technology to like any form
(17:16):
, any social platform.
It's a lot easier to, you know,send something to someone
rather than talk to their face,be it good or bad.
The kids that we teach obviouslygrew up in this generation, but
a lot of their parents did too.
So they haven't known lifewithout technology where we have
.
So I think that they don'tnecessarily, and there's no one
necessarily to mentor them.
I think that's where our rolewe see.
(17:38):
Our role is that we've become,you know, we're their advocate,
but we're their parent to acertain degree because we're
with them for so long.
And we're also their.
What did I write down here?
I mean, we become everythingtheir're counselor, they're
comforter, they're which notcomplaining it just that's.
It goes with the demands thatBarb was talking about.
(18:01):
There are so many more thingsthat we're teaching that right
now you know you fit somethingin, like the social, emotional
piece and what you need to dodaily and how you need to greet
the kids that it's all importantthat it takes away from the
academics of what we're reallytruly supposed to be teaching
them to do well, to learn, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I think one of the things that happened during the
pandemic, though, is thatparticularly and I've noticed it
, you know, being in theclassroom the last couple of
years is an area that I workedin in special education very
deeply, and that is the languageof social thinking.
And so the things you'retalking about, julie, um, kids
did not go to preschool, theydid not, uh, have a good
(18:49):
kindergarten experience, and thethings that are foundational.
We're all having thoughts andum, and that's good, uh, and
those thoughts can be different.
You'll see, you'll hear kidssay, no, he stole my thought.
You know they, they, they'remissing.
You know just some foundationalthings.
Uh, a common one that I, I justhave to deal with in the
(19:11):
classroom and I get get it doneright away is, in every group,
they, they don't understand thedynamic of a group, they don't
understand the levels of socialawareness.
You know like, people see whatyou're doing and they're having
thoughts about that.
So when you're in kindergartenand you're laying on the floor
kicking your feet and screamingbecause your pencil broke or
(19:32):
something, you know, kids arelike, ah, whatever, okay.
But as you move up, kids thenare at a point where they notice
that and they're they're havinga thought.
They're having a wonderingthought why are you doing that?
Okay.
Then they quickly move from thewondering thought to I'm
annoyed now.
And then you move on to now I'mmad, all right.
(19:55):
And then I say level five is donot ever, ever, ever do that
again.
Okay, because the social costto you is too high.
So one of the things that theylearn is that you know when
you're in a group, there's aplan and and the plan has one
person in charge, and in thecase of a family, it's one
(20:16):
parent, both parents, you knowthe grandpa, whoever it is, but
it's not you.
You're not in charge of theplan.
So in the classroom, I'm incharge of the plan and we all
need to be thinking about thesame plan.
And you know so kids simplethings like unless they're told
about this, you'll be teachingyour pants off.
And in the middle of it,somebody sees a speck of paper
(20:39):
on the floor and that's theiropportunity to get it, walk in
front of you and throw it in thegarbage.
Well, that doesn't fly inHoushal Lane and I just will
look at them and I'll say itgets the point.
I just have to look at them.
Sometimes I don't even have to,like they'll have a thought
that they're going to dosomething like that and they'll
kind of get up and then I'llwatch them and then they'll go.
(21:01):
Nope, I'm not going to do thatnow and it's, but I'll just say
group plan or individual plan,you know, so that they have to
figure that out and I mean,think about it.
That happens in board rooms.
You know what I mean, if you do.
I mean it's a critical,critical piece that.
(21:21):
And so now I've noticed,because I've been doing these
observations, like in a coupleof fifth grade classrooms and
they would have been secondgraders the critical time for
that learning is preschool,through about grade two, grade
three, and that's the group thatwas, you know, and so that is
part of that social, emotionallearning and, you know, learning
(21:43):
how to control your emotions.
You know, maybe when you wereon doing you know lessons
virtually, you could turn yourmic off and you could just walk
away.
You know, I had numerous kidsdo that, you know, or they turn
their screen off, which is,which is the equivalent of FU.
(22:04):
You know what I mean, I know.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And so they're doing this in their house.
They're like, yeah, fourthgrade, yeah, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I had some second.
I had this one little girl andthen she'd go tell her mom.
So she'd walk away from thething.
She'd go tell her mom, oh yeah,it's snack time, see, and I
don't let those things go, evenwhen you know I would be calling
the parent and saying yourchild was supposed to be with me
, you know, and she left and mom, oh well, she said it was snack
(22:34):
time.
I go no, it was not snack time.
And so sometimes and I thinkanother thing we're dealing with
is this new thing, this gentleparenting, this you never want
to.
You know, everything isnegotiable, everything is going
to be reasoned out, everythingisable, everything is going to
be reasoned out.
Everything is this andsometimes, damn it, you're going
(22:59):
to do this because, number one,I would say to kids all the
time is it okay if I be theteacher now?
I would say, because I paid alot of money to get the very
fine education that I have andI've been doing this for a very
long time.
So is it okay with you if Icould be the teacher right now?
And they would get the point.
You know, and really one of thethings that people don't
(23:19):
understand is the most importantskill that any teacher has in
an elementary school.
You must be able tosuccessfully move people through
a building with the leastamount of uproar as possible and
get them air on time.
There is no schedule in theworld.
I would put any airport on topof this.
(23:41):
That is more to the minute thanan elementary schedule.
And so this gentle parenting no, I'm not going to have a
discussion with you, honey,about why you can't finish that
right now.
I told you we'll finish it, youknow, just get in line.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, it's those things, maybe how they're
learning things at home.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yes, because at home, you know, yeah, it's optional.
Or I want 10 more minutesonline.
I want, you know, it's the Iwant that.
I say I want to go to Starbucksright now and get a coffee.
I say I want to go to Starbucksright now and get a coffee.
Am I doing it?
But I would say this with theright education and the right
teachers, they are learning it,you know, and that's a really
(24:25):
good thing.
And I mean, sometimes it'sannoying, but I just see it as
it's mission critical and that'sonly one of the missions that's
critical, but you know gentleparenting.
I have a question for you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Washington question.
I don't know if this ishappening in other parts of the
country but, there have been, inthe last couple of years, laws
and things that have been put inplace regarding sex education
and what is being recommended orprovided for schools, and
especially starting in the gradeschool level.
(25:01):
All the way up to high school.
Have you guys had any exposureto that and how did you?
How have you managed it?
Yeah, actually I've been partof the um, the, the
Instructional MaterialsCommittee, for ever, for a long,
long time so they don't reallycall it sexual education
necessarily, but we really tooka look at it because we knew
(25:25):
that there was a need for alittle more consistency and
upgrading of what we didn't have, and so they spent a lot of
time and we actually adopted anew curriculum, which I think is
really great, and they providetraining for teachers what you
can and can't say and how bestto go about keeping it very
(25:48):
neutral and not imposing yourown opinions on it.
I think it's very great,appropriate.
I think that there was in thenews a while back.
There was something that cameup about how they were teaching
kindergartners veryinappropriate things, I think.
I don't know, I'm not sure aboutthat, not in Washington.
I don't find that.
I think that we're verysystematic about how we go about
(26:13):
teaching it, in terms ofallowing parents to preview the
materials every year.
Parents are allowed to opttheir children out of it.
Technically, the parents aresupposed to watch a video
beforehand so that they'refamiliar.
I think that parents havereally been misinformed and told
(26:36):
that, oh, they're teachingkindergartners about intercourse
and it's like no, not happening.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
It's a lot, a lot of misinformation, a lot of
misinformation.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That's why I wanted to bring this up because I think
that there's a realpreconceived notion that there
are a lot of very graphic topicsthat are taught at an early
level.
And I don't know.
I haven't seen the curriculum,so that's why I wanted to ask
how you felt about it.
No, at least I can only speakfor our district and for our
(27:09):
district.
I'm really proud of the waythey've implemented the program.
I think you really need to be.
You have to go through thetraining in order to actually
teach the class and there'salways someone available to help
you if you haven't had theclass or if you need
clarification.
They really try to talk aboutkeeping it strictly by the book,
(27:32):
because it's fairly scriptedand there are videos that go
along with it, kind ofcartoon-like.
And then there's a lot ofconversation and for me I know
for me and my coworkers there'sa lot of parent communication.
There are papers that go homeafter each lesson.
I really am a big proponent ofparent communication.
(27:52):
Anyway, I feel that thatknowledge is power and I really
think it holds them somewhataccountable and it builds the
relationship between parent andteacher and student.
When you start talking aboutthose types of personal issues,
you build the right communitywithin your classroom and it can
be a very powerful part of yourschool year.
(28:14):
We tend to do it toward thebeginning, because fourth grade
there's a lot of prepubescentkids and you just have a lot of
need for personal hygiene.
It's not just talking about sex.
It's talking about anything yourpersonal care talks about
online safety you know, and whenI have, yeah well, yeah, not
even really.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
That's in a different grade level, I think.
But um talks about onlinesafety, you know, and when I
have parents Inappropriatetouching things like that.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Well, yeah, not even really.
That's in a different gradelevel, I think.
But I think, like anything,when parents opt their students
out, normally it's because ofreligious reasons or because
there might be one component ofthe program that they don't like
and there may be a little bitmore fundamental there.
They want to teach it, which Ijust have the conversation when
(28:57):
they talk about opting out.
I just have the conversation atfirst and then I bring out the
materials and show them and alsotalk about you know, if you're
not going to have them be partof it in school, please, please,
talk to them about it at home.
They have the questions,they're ready for some answers
how you want to give it, but itshouldn't be put off, and I
(29:20):
think sometimes those parents doput it off.
This year I had no one opt out,oh nice.
Last year I think I had fivekids and it was all more
religious reasons.
So, yeah, I think they ask alot of questions that I tell the
parents.
These are the questions you'reasking.
All right, message the parentsand tell them.
(29:43):
You know this has come upseveral times.
It's clear your child hascuriosities, they have older
siblings and you know.
You know it's to your advantageto address these things in the
way that you or your religion oryour family feels comfortable,
but simply ignoring them ortelling them you know we'll talk
to you about that next year orthe year after.
That's not a good way to handleit for me.
(30:04):
Honestly that seems like that'skind of how a lot of things have
been handled over the years.
I mean, we didn't have greatconversations about those things
.
Michelle, we were just talkingabout the conversations we'd
even had with our own children.
You know, you think that theyassume a lot, they learn a lot
from their peers, you know, asthey're growing older and such,
(30:26):
which I think, regardless ofwhat you teach them, they're
going to definitely get feedbackfrom people that are their own
age.
But yeah, we had talked aboutthat too and kind of normalizing
the subject enough, where wetalk about how, when we talk in
the class, that's where itshould be.
You know, we don't go talkabout this stuff on the
playground because it's notreally playground conversation.
But you know, when you go tothe doctor, you don't say my
(30:49):
hurts, you say my elbow hurtsright.
You don't say it like Ooh, I gotan owie on my, you know I used
to my head, so we got tonormalize words penis and vagina
and all those things so thatwhen they have problems or
things aren't the way they'retypical for those children they
can address their parents andthe parents get comfortable
(31:10):
talking about it as wellBuilding relationships.
It's almost like the kids aregoing to teach the parents in
some respect.
Well, they force the parents totalk about it a little bit more
.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I think it reinforced for doing what we said was good
for protecting them and theirsafety At and you know, knowing
that, yeah, knowing that thekids have trusted we call them
trusted adults.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
it might not be your mom or dad, not that that
they're not trusted, but that'snot who they're comfortable with
.
Their trusted adult might betheir older cousin, like older,
older cousin, it might be anaunt or uncle, it might be a
good friend of the family.
But allowing parents to knowthat, just because you're not
their specific go to they havesomeone that they're comfortable
(32:06):
with and that there are lots oftrusted adults around school,
some you might want to sharewith, some you might not want to
, but, um, I think it just um,there's a certain comfort in
knowing that, um, the kids havetrusted adults all around them.
Yeah, that's pretty critical, Ithink, when it comes to any
kind of situation involvingtheir personal well-being,
(32:29):
whether it be sexual abuse orwhatever so.
So Michelle has been kind ofquiet because she's worried
she's echoing.
So I've been asking thequestions Just to kind of wrap.
We're going to wrap up.
But if you could kind of sharethe most rewarding aspects of
your career teaching kids, whathas it been?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I'm heartened by the fact that I am still in touch
with so many of my formerstudents, and some of them, you
know, have really had somesignificant lows, you know, in
their lives.
And, and you know I've justbeen reminded, when I was
(33:15):
teaching high school, at thegirls Catholic high school, I
wrote one thing on someone'spaper and because she just it
was in a history class, sheexhibited a level of insight
that nobody else had and in thatyoung woman's life I think it
was the first person that hadever really acknowledged her in
(33:37):
that way.
And over the course of the manyyears she has kept track of me.
Now it's easier now because ofsocial media, but she always
would find some way.
Amazing human beings, and tothink that you had any part in
(34:13):
that, however small, is justreally gratifying.
When I lay my head on thepillow at night, I know that
I've spent my life in anendeavor that is worth doing,
and not everybody can say that,so that would be the most
gratifying.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
A lot of responsibility.
Yeah, how about you, ange?
You know I was thinking aboutthat.
I mean, really, I would echoreally what Barb says.
I think you know the buildingindependence in kids, when you
see them grow and be independentthinkers, independent doers,
that's really rewarding,sparking that curiosity,
(34:54):
challenging them, and I thinkthe same.
You know, over my 36 years I'vekept touch with many, many of
my students and just so proud ofthem, you know.
I mean it's nice to know that Imust have said something or
done something or played somerole that made them who they are
(35:18):
.
And so when I see collegeacceptance letters from former
students that they send me, orparents who are able to get
touch, or the students who areable to get in touch with me to
let me know what they've doneand how they're doing, seeing
them get married, have babies,you know the whole thing Just be
(35:38):
very, just, great people,caring individuals, and so many
of them want to go into teachingas well.
You know they see what, whatyou can do, what's possible, um
and I'm pushing that narrativeall the time.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Um, this is the kind of thing that sucked me and I
would say that just sucked me infor another five years, okay,
when I was working with astudent that had autism.
One day I was in eating mylunch and the office manager
came and whenever she came inand I was eating my lunch, I
knew this is not a good bar.
And so she came in and she toldme this student was.
She said I cleaned him up, butbasically he just went nuts in
(36:22):
the cafeteria.
He was eating his lunch withhis face in the plate and I'm
like holy camoly.
So I went out to get himbecause we were going to go have
, as we call in our house, adiscussion, anyway.
So I was walking with him andhe was because he was on the
(36:42):
autism spectrum.
He frequently had troubleespecially if his emotions were
really high getting out what hewanted to say.
So I'm asking him I said honey.
I said what was that?
What was so upsetting?
What was so upsetting to you?
You know, because I said whenyou're eating your food like
that, it was scaring people.
You know they just didn'tunderstand.
You know they were having awondering thought anyway, they
(37:03):
were having a wondering thought,anyway.
So all he could get out is hesaid my burrito broke and I said
so.
I suddenly this is how you know, you've been a SPED teacher for
this long, I knew instantly,okay, what this was.
So we go.
And I said so you wanted and Iknow this kid loved burrito day.
Okay, it was like his favoritelunch.
I said so, let me see it.
Do you tell me if I'm right?
(37:25):
You got your burrito and youwent to eat it and it fell apart
and it made you so mad that youjust started eating it like you
were eating.
And he said yes.
So I had to talk to him.
I said well, honey.
I said did you get a napkin,you know, when you were going
through the line.
No, I said well, you know theyhave forks, honey.
I said you know, this is whatMrs Housel knows.
(37:47):
Whenever I have a taco orburrito, it always falls apart.
And I'm with you, buddy, I getit.
It's really maddening when itfalls apart.
I said but honey, you've got tohave a plan B, the plan B, you
know, because you can't do that.
So we worked on that and weused to do this coaching club
thing and we worked a lot onplan B.
I left that school but one ofthe parents was still there.
(38:07):
He was still at the school.
One day she writes me a thingand she says Barb, I'm going to
send you a video Today.
This student, he was in theoffice after school and she said
you know, honey, what's what'sup?
He goes.
Well, my, my family didn't comeand pick me up and she said oh,
you know, do you want me tocall him?
And he said no, I have a plan B.
Oh, it worked.
(38:30):
And she sent me a video of him.
She said, well, and it was towalk home.
And she said well, would it,would it make you feel better if
I just followed along whileyou're walking home?
So she sent me a video of himwalking and her, you know,
following him.
And so it's those moments andthere are many, but it's like
you know, I mean having a plan B.
(38:51):
Don't we all need to know that?
That's a critical learning.
I feel like I need plan B, c, d, e and F in these days.
But anyway yeah, but okay.
But just to have a plan B, ohmy god.
So that I would say to peoplethat just sucked me in for
another five years.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Well, I know you can't seem to get away from it.
And here's the thing You'retalking about the seeds that
you've planted.
Angie is a seed, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I am the seed you planted.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I had her two years.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I mean, I only had her when she let me go
backwards.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
She couldn't get enough of me.
No, angie, did you not have meas your confirmation coordinator
too?
Yeah, yeah, that was anothertime, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I couldn't say she couldn't get enough of me or I
just needed a lot of work withher.
I needed more hauchelisms.
Yeah, I needed more houseisms.
I needed more, more of you.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah, well, that houseisms is a word.
And teachers at schools, theystill say to me that kid needs
to be housealized.
And I even have a mug that saysthat one of my, one of the
parents gave it to me.
And this is the kind of studentAngie was okay in sixth grade.
This is getting back to ourkind of you know what's taught
(40:09):
Angie?
She was always very grown upokay.
So she came up to me one day and, mind you, I'm all of 22.
And she says, mrs Houshull,I've been reading this book it
was Deanie by Judy Blume.
And she comes up to me and shesays, mrs Houshla, I've been
reading this book and I justthink it's really too grown up
(40:31):
for me, so I'm going to stopreading it.
And I said, oh, okay, great.
So then I thought, barbara, youbetter get your hands on that
book and find out what it'sabout.
Well, as Judy Blume was wont todo, this one dealt with
masturbation.
And so she came up to me andjust said very grown up, mrs
Houshaw, I just think this bookis too grown up, give it to me
(40:55):
in another couple years.
And then one time your parentscame, but we were in Catholic
school.
I know you weren't talkingabout that, but I remember your
parents came to see me when youwere in eighth grade and they
were really upset because Angiewas kind of, you know, acting up
a bit and yes, and so she.
So this is what I said to them.
I said, well, I said I reallydon't see that I see some age
(41:20):
appropriate.
You know behaviors.
And I said you know, when youhave an older child that's had
significant issues, I said, andyou have this other child that
really has not, all of a sudden,when she just starts exhibiting
what we would consider someage-appropriate things, it can
(41:41):
seem really bad.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I go, she's fine, don't worry about it, she's fine
, it's the other one you need toworry about.
I never said that.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Are you kidding?
You were the kind of kid I lovebecause you were feisty.
Both of you are.
Both of you are Feisty, feisty.
Do I not live that every day?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Say out the feist.
Well we appreciate yourfeistiness and you've obviously
raised a really good teacher.
I talk about angie when I'mdealing with clients you know
who are looking at schooldistricts and you know the
school that she has been in inthe past wasn't maybe rated as
high and I was like I don'tthink that's a real good
testimony to what's happening,because my teacher, my sister,
(42:21):
teaches fourth grade and I wouldnot mess with her.
I would do exactly what shewanted in her classroom.
And you know, I mean and I knowBarb will say this too I work
with just all the teachers Iwork with Just they're
professional, they care.
I mean I just really as a wholeit just you bring a lot of it
(42:47):
home with you at night, yeah,and you worry about the kids, oh
, my God, I call it my, I callit my 3 am prayer list.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Okay, because you know, I mean you're just
constantly worrying about them.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I think, like anything,you know, we just we have to
remember everyone's doing theirbest.
And you have to remember toothat even with pandemic, you
know, as the kids came back withdifficulties and gaps and that
sort of thing, their best tolearn and do all that stuff,
(43:25):
everyone's just trying theirbest.
And you know, we just needgrace.
You know we just need to talkto people, teachers, we need to
talk to our teachers kindly.
Yes, because that's really whendid we?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
this is my sad, saddest thing.
When did teachers become theenemy?
When?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, right, I, I had a root canal recently.
What I've kind of noticed isthat people kind of behaved in
the way that they feel teachersare doing.
They're doing the teacher afavor, whereas I feel like the
teachers are giving guidance onhow to help raise your kid.
They're seeing your child in awhole different realm.
(44:05):
Yeah, so yeah, and that's awhole nother podcast.
But yes it is.
I'm saying, you know, I just Iwork with so many great people
and I think the profession, Ithink you know if there's any,
any, anything I just just thinkit's rare that you really find
teachers who aren't committed.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
We're not in it for the June, July and August,
because it's no longer June,July and August.
Oh my gosh, you work so manyhours beyond that, Are you
kidding?
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, I think everyone does, it's not just me.
We all have challenges withinour job, whether it's who we
have in our class that last yearor this year, or what resources
have been cut, or certain kidswho don't have the help they
need at home, or you know.
There's so many things that goon from classroom to classroom
(44:56):
and I think the teachers handleit the best they can, the best
they know how, with theresources they have and using
their own resources.
I think it just um.
There's so many great, greatteachers out there.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Well, thank you both for your time today.
I think we're going to wrap upnow and, uh, this has been
enlightening.
It's been so weird havingMichelle be quiet.
I'm the one that hears it.
She's never quiet, she's like,but she's trying to keep the
echo from happening in thebackground.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
It's really an honor to be associated with both of
you for so many years, and it'snice to meet you, michelle, for
the first time.
Yeah, I was happy to do it.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
All right, well, thank you, ladies, and we will
be out there and see you nextweek.
Sounds good, bye, bye.
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We're going to get schooled.
We're going to get old schooled.
Before we get started, can Ijust give a little shout out to
our community of listeners?
I just want to thank everybodyfor joining us out on all the
socials, of course Facebook,instagram, tiktok you will find
us a Blonde Brunette and a Mike.
And, better yet, go on over toYouTube, subscribe and follow,
(01:08):
share it, download all thethings, because we are just
continuing to grow and we aresuper appreciative and we love
that you all are listening, sothank you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, yeah, we're thrilled to have you guys on
today.
So we have two wonderfuleducators that we just
determined have 85 years ofexperience between the two of
them, even though they're eachonly 29 years old.
So one of them I am, I am veryproud and honored to say is my
sister, angie, and then, ofcourse, barb Houshull, who was
(01:38):
our teacher, and she justreminded us that we're only 10
years apart.
So there is that.
So, with that in mind, barb,can you give us a little bit of
a little bit of intro on yourexperience and you know how you
started in teaching?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, this is year 49 .
And so I'm going to try to makeit in a nutshell.
I started my career teaching inCatholic schools in the Seattle
area.
The first part of my career waslargely what we would call
middle school now seven andeight.
But I also taught for two yearsat a Catholic girls' high
(02:17):
school and then my last job inthe Archdiocese.
I had the opportunity I'dgotten more and more into
working with students withspecial needs and that grew out
of a lot of years of beingfrustrated when I would think at
(02:37):
the end of the year, you know,was there anything that I did
for that kid?
I mean it would just prey on mymind that I did for that kid?
I mean it would just prey on mymind.
And I was at one school we wereable to connect with a doctoral
student and she had written,co-wrote, a book called what
Works, and it was my firstintroduction to how making
(02:57):
simple accommodations forstudents that address some of
their learning differences was ahuge factor in increasing their
learning and their performanceand then, of course, their you
know just their happiness inschool.
So then I went to my lastposition in the Archdiocese and
(03:18):
an opportunity came up.
I continued to work in thatarea, just as a middle school
teacher, and a position came upto be head of their kind of
learning resource program.
They were the only school inthe Archdiocese at that point
that had that kind of a program,so that prompted me to go back
to school.
(03:38):
I went to Seattle U where Igraduated from, and I got my
master's in special ed over thenext you know kind of five years
.
Then, in 2020, after we had beenshut down in that March because
of the pandemic, I had alreadydecided that I was going to
retire.
But that kind of sealed thedeal and partly it was.
(04:02):
I was retiring not really somuch from education but from
that particular job.
Being a special ed teacherduring the pandemic was a
nightmare.
But even before that there werechanges in students that I was
trying to work with not enoughsupport.
(04:22):
I mean it was crazy and itwasn't ever the work I did with
kids.
I just could not continue toconstantly feel like it was a
battle every day, and not withmy students but with
administrators, with thedistrict, with everybody.
So I made that decision and so Ifound a new niche and I worked
(04:45):
for the last five years doingmostly long-term sub-positions
for moms, you know, on maternityleave, and some of them were
quite lengthy.
So, and then now there is a now?
I recently just accepted aposition through Western
(05:08):
Washington University that's ina partnership with the Everett
School District and I amteaching teachers.
I am teaching teachers in therein a two year residency program
and it's a paid residency forthe final year.
So it's been, um, that was sortof always, uh, a dream of mine
(05:34):
and I've mentored people allalong in my career.
But this is a really excitingopportunity and I'm really happy
nice transition to To the nextgeneration of educators.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
So we were saying your last role was teaching
other teachers, and so are youstill doing that?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, I just started in December.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But it sounds like it's the very precise into the
career that you were wanting.
It's kind of, like you said,bringing things full circle like
teaching in Catholic school.
Again, things like that Give ussome insight into your history.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So I was a product of Catholic schools too.
So I started my studentteaching in Catholic schools and
then it seemed like justnatural progression to move to a
full time when I got mycertificate.
So I started.
I actually replaced a teacherwho was on a leave, so they just
wanted someone young, someonefun, who would do a lot of art,
(06:52):
go on field trips, just work onmore of the personal side of the
kids rather than the academics.
They were a very strong class.
I had probably four staffmember kids in my class.
I spent most of my career inthird grade but I spent the
first 10 years in the Catholicschools and then realized that I
(07:14):
needed to look out for benefits.
I needed to have a little bitmore challenge in my career.
So I moved to the Catholic orthe public schools.
Then right around pandemic timeI looped with my third graders
and moved up to fourth.
So I've spent about 10 years inCatholic school and I've been
about I guess what 12 years inthe public schools.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Can I ask you, Angie, having just said that, what are
the differences as far asresources, student needs, that
kind of a thing that you'venoticed between public and
private school?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I didn't know any different when I was teaching
the Catholic school.
You know you make do with whatyou have and so you know
businesses would go out ofbusiness and they would donate
their letterhead and we wouldturn it over and use that to
send notes home or to use forcopy paper, and you may do.
You did more group work, you.
(08:15):
There just aren't as manyresources available and at the
time the tuition, I think, wason the lower side, so there
wasn't a lot of extra money forfinding teachers, specifically
reading teachers or specificintervention type teachers.
You know, when I went to thepublic school it was great
because they had people thatwere specifically designated to
(08:38):
work with any type of child whohas some learning difficulty,
not just ones that are on IEP,not our special ed students,
because that's more federallybased where they have to have
the specially designedinstruction.
But it was.
You know even now you findthose resources available, so
take some of the pressure off.
So you never had to improvise alot with you when you were
(09:00):
teaching in Catholic school,because it's always been that
the kids in Catholic school orin Catholic school, because it's
always been that the kids inCatholic school or in private
school at least what myexperience was.
They're more going to be cutout of middle of the road.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They're not going to need the same types of resources
.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think when I was in there I found that to be pretty
true.
There weren't a lot of kidswith special needs because we
didn't have resources for them,and if we accept them, you have
to provide those.
So, um, yeah, so we, they weremore middle of the road or the
um.
The continuum wasn't as longwhen I was there, I think my
(09:40):
kids were in catholic school orK through eight that they had
kids that needed more attentionin different ways, and I don't
recall specifics, but it reallydrew away from the learning
experience, I think, from otherkids because they weren't
necessarily equipped to handleyou know, those specific types
(10:02):
of learning situations.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It was more kind of like middle of the road so to
speak.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So you feel like you've had more resources
available than in public school.
Oh yeah, but it sounds likeyour job had changed based on,
maybe, the budget, like you weremoved from different places.
Sounds like that was the casewith Barb.
Maybe too.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Like a levy, didn't pass or something like that
happened.
The law originally thatstudents who have that.
You know our educational systemis different than most in the
world in that every single childis entitled to a free and
appropriate public education,and so a law was passed in 1972,
(11:00):
I believe it was that required.
You know.
It basically is the first.
It was the first version ofwhat is IDEA, the Individuals
with Disabilities Education Act,and that has been reauthorized
numerous times.
But originally it was the ideathat the federal government was
going to fully pay for thoseservices because they're
(11:23):
expensive.
When you're dealing with this,what we call, as Angie mentioned
, the continuum of services.
But what's happening now isthat the federal government has
never paid more than 10% of thecost of that.
That falls to the states.
And so in the state ofWashington there was a huge case
a couple years ago called theMcCleary decision, and that
(11:47):
reinforced the notion that thestate of Washington's primary
commitment within the budgetingprocess is to education.
At least 51% of the state'sbudget is supposed to be
directed towards education.
Well, that has fallen awayagain and you're going to see
more stuff legally come about,but given that we're now in a
(12:09):
situation where things are beingcut at the federal level
without a lot of surgicalprecision.
I think we all know thatthere's waste everywhere and
it's good to root it out, butthat's not what's happening.
So class sizes are going toincrease, students are
definitely not going to get thelevel of service that they need
(12:29):
to make progress, and the thingthat really makes it difficult
for teachers is that what'schanged in the 50 years or
Angie's you know how, 35 orwhatever it is is that the
demand for what is taught isincreasing exponentially.
I mean, I remember learningabout a Venn diagram when I was
(12:50):
in college.
Okay, well, I can tell you,first graders know what a Venn
diagram is now.
So there's this acceleration ofcurriculum and you know, just
in order to keep up with thepace of how technology and that
revolution has put demands.
I remember I was on a citizenadvisory council in special
(13:12):
education and they came in anddid a budget thing and it was
presented and the person was notin any way intending to sound
this way, but there were numbersof people that sat on this
board who had students withsignificant issues, and so the
notion in presenting it was well, we have to take this money
from the general fund and so wehave to put it over here to pay
(13:34):
for those students and so therest of the kids get less.
That's the way it was presentedand when you think about it,
that's not a good look.
And when you think about it,that's not a good look, all
(14:03):
right.
And the thing that's, you know,kind of is so concerning to me
is that in the society that I'velived in from all of my life,
the thing that's critical is youhave to have an educated
electorate to have a democraticnation.
And they knew that back in thecolonial times there was
something they called Republicansmall r motherhood, because
most kids were educated by theirmothers and yet they knew that
the ability to read and writeand do some you know basic math,
that was critical and thathasn't changed.
And that's one of the reasonswhy I feel so committed to what
(14:25):
I'm doing now is that you knowwe're coming out of a pandemic
and, quite frankly, what they'refinding is that people are
going into education and theydon't last.
They're in there for maybe,maybe three years and they're
like I'm out of here.
And part of it is that there'salso been other changes.
You know like there's changesin the way kids are parented.
(14:48):
You know, I would say thatprobably all of us grew up in.
We had warm demand, theirparents too.
It's just that's part of thereason why I want to do this is
that, you know, people often sayto me well, how have you done
this for 49 years?
I said, well, either I'm sickor I must really love it.
And I do really love it.
(15:09):
It's defined a purpose in mylife, you know.
For me it, you know, kind offills the bucket, and I want to
make sure that there's anothergeneration of teachers that are
resilient, that are you know,that are going to fight for kids
, because the biggest thing weare is an advocate.
Do not, do not poke that withme, because that's when Barbara
(15:31):
Hauschel that you all talk about, that's when she emerges.
You know, I'm very flexible, Iam a team player, but you know,
do not not respect my studentsand the needs of their families.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So Well, and that's the thing I've noticed, like
with Angie, just conversationsand things that we've had are
just me watching what's beenhappening over the last five
years, let's just say with thepandemic kind of starting.
A lot of that is kids seem likewith through no fault of their
own, they're behind you knowthey're socially maybe a little
(16:10):
bit behind because they didn'thave that interaction with their
other students.
I know you have a lot ofstudents or at least I know
Angie had in the past that haveEnglish as a second language.
So there's that barrier in theclassrooms as well.
But a lot of the things thatyou guys deal with have nothing
to do with your class plans.
They have to do with theinteraction with parents or
(16:33):
trying to navigate the classroomand the children.
So there is a good learningenvironment.
Do you feel like that, withtechnology has changed and
become more difficult, or do youfeel like technology has made
that easier?
Well, definitely, I think it'smade it harder.
As much as you know, cellphones and everything else have
(16:55):
made lives easier.
I would just as soon, I think,go back to how it was before.
I think there was moreinteraction with parents and
kids.
I think that there was morerespect for the process, the
profession, the people in theprofession.
I think it's been really easywith technology to like any form
(17:16):
, any social platform.
It's a lot easier to, you know,send something to someone
rather than talk to their face,be it good or bad.
The kids that we teach obviouslygrew up in this generation, but
a lot of their parents did too.
So they haven't known lifewithout technology where we have
.
So I think that they don'tnecessarily, and there's no one
necessarily to mentor them.
I think that's where our rolewe see.
(17:38):
Our role is that we've become,you know, we're their advocate,
but we're their parent to acertain degree because we're
with them for so long.
And we're also their.
What did I write down here?
I mean, we become everythingtheir're counselor, they're
comforter, they're which notcomplaining it just that's.
It goes with the demands thatBarb was talking about.
(18:01):
There are so many more thingsthat we're teaching that right
now you know you fit somethingin, like the social, emotional
piece and what you need to dodaily and how you need to greet
the kids that it's all importantthat it takes away from the
academics of what we're reallytruly supposed to be teaching
them to do well, to learn, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I think one of the things that happened during the
pandemic, though, is thatparticularly and I've noticed it
, you know, being in theclassroom the last couple of
years is an area that I workedin in special education very
deeply, and that is the languageof social thinking.
And so the things you'retalking about, julie, um, kids
did not go to preschool, theydid not, uh, have a good
(18:49):
kindergarten experience, and thethings that are foundational.
We're all having thoughts andum, and that's good, uh, and
those thoughts can be different.
You'll see, you'll hear kidssay, no, he stole my thought.
You know they, they, they'remissing.
You know just some foundationalthings.
Uh, a common one that I, I justhave to deal with in the
(19:11):
classroom and I get get it doneright away is, in every group,
they, they don't understand thedynamic of a group, they don't
understand the levels of socialawareness.
You know like, people see whatyou're doing and they're having
thoughts about that.
So when you're in kindergartenand you're laying on the floor
kicking your feet and screamingbecause your pencil broke or
(19:32):
something, you know, kids arelike, ah, whatever, okay.
But as you move up, kids thenare at a point where they notice
that and they're they're havinga thought.
They're having a wonderingthought why are you doing that?
Okay.
Then they quickly move from thewondering thought to I'm
annoyed now.
And then you move on to now I'mmad, all right.
(19:55):
And then I say level five is donot ever, ever, ever do that
again.
Okay, because the social costto you is too high.
So one of the things that theylearn is that you know when
you're in a group, there's aplan and and the plan has one
person in charge, and in thecase of a family, it's one
(20:16):
parent, both parents, you knowthe grandpa, whoever it is, but
it's not you.
You're not in charge of theplan.
So in the classroom, I'm incharge of the plan and we all
need to be thinking about thesame plan.
And you know so kids simplethings like unless they're told
about this, you'll be teachingyour pants off.
And in the middle of it,somebody sees a speck of paper
(20:39):
on the floor and that's theiropportunity to get it, walk in
front of you and throw it in thegarbage.
Well, that doesn't fly inHoushal Lane and I just will
look at them and I'll say itgets the point.
I just have to look at them.
Sometimes I don't even have to,like they'll have a thought
that they're going to dosomething like that and they'll
kind of get up and then I'llwatch them and then they'll go.
(21:01):
Nope, I'm not going to do thatnow and it's, but I'll just say
group plan or individual plan,you know, so that they have to
figure that out and I mean,think about it.
That happens in board rooms.
You know what I mean, if you do.
I mean it's a critical,critical piece that.
(21:21):
And so now I've noticed,because I've been doing these
observations, like in a coupleof fifth grade classrooms and
they would have been secondgraders the critical time for
that learning is preschool,through about grade two, grade
three, and that's the group thatwas, you know, and so that is
part of that social, emotionallearning and, you know, learning
(21:43):
how to control your emotions.
You know, maybe when you wereon doing you know lessons
virtually, you could turn yourmic off and you could just walk
away.
You know, I had numerous kidsdo that, you know, or they turn
their screen off, which is,which is the equivalent of FU.
(22:04):
You know what I mean, I know.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And so they're doing this in their house.
They're like, yeah, fourthgrade, yeah, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I had some second.
I had this one little girl andthen she'd go tell her mom.
So she'd walk away from thething.
She'd go tell her mom, oh yeah,it's snack time, see, and I
don't let those things go, evenwhen you know I would be calling
the parent and saying yourchild was supposed to be with me
, you know, and she left and mom, oh well, she said it was snack
(22:34):
time.
I go no, it was not snack time.
And so sometimes and I thinkanother thing we're dealing with
is this new thing, this gentleparenting, this you never want
to.
You know, everything isnegotiable, everything is going
to be reasoned out, everythingisable, everything is going to
be reasoned out.
Everything is this andsometimes, damn it, you're going
(22:59):
to do this because, number one,I would say to kids all the
time is it okay if I be theteacher now?
I would say, because I paid alot of money to get the very
fine education that I have andI've been doing this for a very
long time.
So is it okay with you if Icould be the teacher right now?
And they would get the point.
You know, and really one of thethings that people don't
(23:19):
understand is the most importantskill that any teacher has in
an elementary school.
You must be able tosuccessfully move people through
a building with the leastamount of uproar as possible and
get them air on time.
There is no schedule in theworld.
I would put any airport on topof this.
(23:41):
That is more to the minute thanan elementary schedule.
And so this gentle parenting no, I'm not going to have a
discussion with you, honey,about why you can't finish that
right now.
I told you we'll finish it, youknow, just get in line.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, it's those things, maybe how they're
learning things at home.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yes, because at home, you know, yeah, it's optional.
Or I want 10 more minutesonline.
I want, you know, it's the Iwant that.
I say I want to go to Starbucksright now and get a coffee.
I say I want to go to Starbucksright now and get a coffee.
Am I doing it?
But I would say this with theright education and the right
teachers, they are learning it,you know, and that's a really
(24:25):
good thing.
And I mean, sometimes it'sannoying, but I just see it as
it's mission critical and that'sonly one of the missions that's
critical, but you know gentleparenting.
I have a question for you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Washington question.
I don't know if this ishappening in other parts of the
country but, there have been, inthe last couple of years, laws
and things that have been put inplace regarding sex education
and what is being recommended orprovided for schools, and
especially starting in the gradeschool level.
(25:01):
All the way up to high school.
Have you guys had any exposureto that and how did you?
How have you managed it?
Yeah, actually I've been partof the um, the, the
Instructional MaterialsCommittee, for ever, for a long,
long time so they don't reallycall it sexual education
necessarily, but we really tooka look at it because we knew
(25:25):
that there was a need for alittle more consistency and
upgrading of what we didn't have, and so they spent a lot of
time and we actually adopted anew curriculum, which I think is
really great, and they providetraining for teachers what you
can and can't say and how bestto go about keeping it very
(25:48):
neutral and not imposing yourown opinions on it.
I think it's very great,appropriate.
I think that there was in thenews a while back.
There was something that cameup about how they were teaching
kindergartners veryinappropriate things, I think.
I don't know, I'm not sure aboutthat, not in Washington.
I don't find that.
I think that we're verysystematic about how we go about
(26:13):
teaching it, in terms ofallowing parents to preview the
materials every year.
Parents are allowed to opttheir children out of it.
Technically, the parents aresupposed to watch a video
beforehand so that they'refamiliar.
I think that parents havereally been misinformed and told
(26:36):
that, oh, they're teachingkindergartners about intercourse
and it's like no, not happening.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
It's a lot, a lot of misinformation, a lot of
misinformation.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That's why I wanted to bring this up because I think
that there's a realpreconceived notion that there
are a lot of very graphic topicsthat are taught at an early
level.
And I don't know.
I haven't seen the curriculum,so that's why I wanted to ask
how you felt about it.
No, at least I can only speakfor our district and for our
(27:09):
district.
I'm really proud of the waythey've implemented the program.
I think you really need to be.
You have to go through thetraining in order to actually
teach the class and there'salways someone available to help
you if you haven't had theclass or if you need
clarification.
They really try to talk aboutkeeping it strictly by the book,
(27:32):
because it's fairly scriptedand there are videos that go
along with it, kind ofcartoon-like.
And then there's a lot ofconversation and for me I know
for me and my coworkers there'sa lot of parent communication.
There are papers that go homeafter each lesson.
I really am a big proponent ofparent communication.
(27:52):
Anyway, I feel that thatknowledge is power and I really
think it holds them somewhataccountable and it builds the
relationship between parent andteacher and student.
When you start talking aboutthose types of personal issues,
you build the right communitywithin your classroom and it can
be a very powerful part of yourschool year.
(28:14):
We tend to do it toward thebeginning, because fourth grade
there's a lot of prepubescentkids and you just have a lot of
need for personal hygiene.
It's not just talking about sex.
It's talking about anything yourpersonal care talks about
online safety you know, and whenI have, yeah well, yeah, not
even really.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
That's in a different grade level, I think.
But um talks about onlinesafety, you know, and when I
have parents Inappropriatetouching things like that.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Well, yeah, not even really.
That's in a different gradelevel, I think.
But I think, like anything,when parents opt their students
out, normally it's because ofreligious reasons or because
there might be one component ofthe program that they don't like
and there may be a little bitmore fundamental there.
They want to teach it, which Ijust have the conversation when
(28:57):
they talk about opting out.
I just have the conversation atfirst and then I bring out the
materials and show them and alsotalk about you know, if you're
not going to have them be partof it in school, please, please,
talk to them about it at home.
They have the questions,they're ready for some answers
how you want to give it, but itshouldn't be put off, and I
(29:20):
think sometimes those parents doput it off.
This year I had no one opt out,oh nice.
Last year I think I had fivekids and it was all more
religious reasons.
So, yeah, I think they ask alot of questions that I tell the
parents.
These are the questions you'reasking.
All right, message the parentsand tell them.
(29:43):
You know this has come upseveral times.
It's clear your child hascuriosities, they have older
siblings and you know.
You know it's to your advantageto address these things in the
way that you or your religion oryour family feels comfortable,
but simply ignoring them ortelling them you know we'll talk
to you about that next year orthe year after.
That's not a good way to handleit for me.
(30:04):
Honestly that seems like that'skind of how a lot of things have
been handled over the years.
I mean, we didn't have greatconversations about those things
.
Michelle, we were just talkingabout the conversations we'd
even had with our own children.
You know, you think that theyassume a lot, they learn a lot
from their peers, you know, asthey're growing older and such,
(30:26):
which I think, regardless ofwhat you teach them, they're
going to definitely get feedbackfrom people that are their own
age.
But yeah, we had talked aboutthat too and kind of normalizing
the subject enough, where wetalk about how, when we talk in
the class, that's where itshould be.
You know, we don't go talkabout this stuff on the
playground because it's notreally playground conversation.
But you know, when you go tothe doctor, you don't say my
(30:49):
hurts, you say my elbow hurtsright.
You don't say it like Ooh, I gotan owie on my, you know I used
to my head, so we got tonormalize words penis and vagina
and all those things so thatwhen they have problems or
things aren't the way they'retypical for those children they
can address their parents andthe parents get comfortable
(31:10):
talking about it as wellBuilding relationships.
It's almost like the kids aregoing to teach the parents in
some respect.
Well, they force the parents totalk about it a little bit more
.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I think it reinforced for doing what we said was good
for protecting them and theirsafety At and you know, knowing
that, yeah, knowing that thekids have trusted we call them
trusted adults.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
it might not be your mom or dad, not that that
they're not trusted, but that'snot who they're comfortable with
.
Their trusted adult might betheir older cousin, like older,
older cousin, it might be anaunt or uncle, it might be a
good friend of the family.
But allowing parents to knowthat, just because you're not
their specific go to they havesomeone that they're comfortable
(32:06):
with and that there are lots oftrusted adults around school,
some you might want to sharewith, some you might not want to
, but, um, I think it just um,there's a certain comfort in
knowing that, um, the kids havetrusted adults all around them.
Yeah, that's pretty critical, Ithink, when it comes to any
kind of situation involvingtheir personal well-being,
(32:29):
whether it be sexual abuse orwhatever so.
So Michelle has been kind ofquiet because she's worried
she's echoing.
So I've been asking thequestions Just to kind of wrap.
We're going to wrap up.
But if you could kind of sharethe most rewarding aspects of
your career teaching kids, whathas it been?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I'm heartened by the fact that I am still in touch
with so many of my formerstudents, and some of them, you
know, have really had somesignificant lows, you know, in
their lives.
And, and you know I've justbeen reminded, when I was
(33:15):
teaching high school, at thegirls Catholic high school, I
wrote one thing on someone'spaper and because she just it
was in a history class, sheexhibited a level of insight
that nobody else had and in thatyoung woman's life I think it
was the first person that hadever really acknowledged her in
(33:37):
that way.
And over the course of the manyyears she has kept track of me.
Now it's easier now because ofsocial media, but she always
would find some way.
Amazing human beings, and tothink that you had any part in
(34:13):
that, however small, is justreally gratifying.
When I lay my head on thepillow at night, I know that
I've spent my life in anendeavor that is worth doing,
and not everybody can say that,so that would be the most
gratifying.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
A lot of responsibility.
Yeah, how about you, ange?
You know I was thinking aboutthat.
I mean, really, I would echoreally what Barb says.
I think you know the buildingindependence in kids, when you
see them grow and be independentthinkers, independent doers,
that's really rewarding,sparking that curiosity,
(34:54):
challenging them, and I thinkthe same.
You know, over my 36 years I'vekept touch with many, many of
my students and just so proud ofthem, you know.
I mean it's nice to know that Imust have said something or
done something or played somerole that made them who they are
(35:18):
.
And so when I see collegeacceptance letters from former
students that they send me, orparents who are able to get
touch, or the students who areable to get in touch with me to
let me know what they've doneand how they're doing, seeing
them get married, have babies,you know the whole thing Just be
(35:38):
very, just, great people,caring individuals, and so many
of them want to go into teachingas well.
You know they see what, whatyou can do, what's possible, um
and I'm pushing that narrativeall the time.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Um, this is the kind of thing that sucked me and I
would say that just sucked me infor another five years, okay,
when I was working with astudent that had autism.
One day I was in eating mylunch and the office manager
came and whenever she came inand I was eating my lunch, I
knew this is not a good bar.
And so she came in and she toldme this student was.
She said I cleaned him up, butbasically he just went nuts in
(36:22):
the cafeteria.
He was eating his lunch withhis face in the plate and I'm
like holy camoly.
So I went out to get himbecause we were going to go have
, as we call in our house, adiscussion, anyway.
So I was walking with him andhe was because he was on the
(36:42):
autism spectrum.
He frequently had troubleespecially if his emotions were
really high getting out what hewanted to say.
So I'm asking him I said honey.
I said what was that?
What was so upsetting?
What was so upsetting to you?
You know, because I said whenyou're eating your food like
that, it was scaring people.
You know they just didn'tunderstand.
You know they were having awondering thought anyway, they
(37:03):
were having a wondering thought,anyway.
So all he could get out is hesaid my burrito broke and I said
so.
I suddenly this is how you know, you've been a SPED teacher for
this long, I knew instantly,okay, what this was.
So we go.
And I said so you wanted and Iknow this kid loved burrito day.
Okay, it was like his favoritelunch.
I said so, let me see it.
Do you tell me if I'm right?
(37:25):
You got your burrito and youwent to eat it and it fell apart
and it made you so mad that youjust started eating it like you
were eating.
And he said yes.
So I had to talk to him.
I said well, honey.
I said did you get a napkin,you know, when you were going
through the line.
No, I said well, you know theyhave forks, honey.
I said you know, this is whatMrs Housel knows.
(37:47):
Whenever I have a taco orburrito, it always falls apart.
And I'm with you, buddy, I getit.
It's really maddening when itfalls apart.
I said but honey, you've got tohave a plan B, the plan B, you
know, because you can't do that.
So we worked on that and weused to do this coaching club
thing and we worked a lot onplan B.
I left that school but one ofthe parents was still there.
(38:07):
He was still at the school.
One day she writes me a thingand she says Barb, I'm going to
send you a video Today.
This student, he was in theoffice after school and she said
you know, honey, what's what'sup?
He goes.
Well, my, my family didn't comeand pick me up and she said oh,
you know, do you want me tocall him?
And he said no, I have a plan B.
Oh, it worked.
(38:30):
And she sent me a video of him.
She said, well, and it was towalk home.
And she said well, would it,would it make you feel better if
I just followed along whileyou're walking home?
So she sent me a video of himwalking and her, you know,
following him.
And so it's those moments andthere are many, but it's like
you know, I mean having a plan B.
(38:51):
Don't we all need to know that?
That's a critical learning.
I feel like I need plan B, c, d, e and F in these days.
But anyway yeah, but okay.
But just to have a plan B, ohmy god.
So that I would say to peoplethat just sucked me in for
another five years.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Well, I know you can't seem to get away from it.
And here's the thing You'retalking about the seeds that
you've planted.
Angie is a seed, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I am the seed you planted.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I had her two years.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I mean, I only had her when she let me go
backwards.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
She couldn't get enough of me.
No, angie, did you not have meas your confirmation coordinator
too?
Yeah, yeah, that was anothertime, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I couldn't say she couldn't get enough of me or I
just needed a lot of work withher.
I needed more hauchelisms.
Yeah, I needed more houseisms.
I needed more, more of you.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah, well, that houseisms is a word.
And teachers at schools, theystill say to me that kid needs
to be housealized.
And I even have a mug that saysthat one of my, one of the
parents gave it to me.
And this is the kind of studentAngie was okay in sixth grade.
This is getting back to ourkind of you know what's taught
(40:09):
Angie?
She was always very grown upokay.
So she came up to me one day and, mind you, I'm all of 22.
And she says, mrs Houshull,I've been reading this book it
was Deanie by Judy Blume.
And she comes up to me and shesays, mrs Houshla, I've been
reading this book and I justthink it's really too grown up
(40:31):
for me, so I'm going to stopreading it.
And I said, oh, okay, great.
So then I thought, barbara, youbetter get your hands on that
book and find out what it'sabout.
Well, as Judy Blume was wont todo, this one dealt with
masturbation.
And so she came up to me andjust said very grown up, mrs
Houshaw, I just think this bookis too grown up, give it to me
(40:55):
in another couple years.
And then one time your parentscame, but we were in Catholic
school.
I know you weren't talkingabout that, but I remember your
parents came to see me when youwere in eighth grade and they
were really upset because Angiewas kind of, you know, acting up
a bit and yes, and so she.
So this is what I said to them.
I said, well, I said I reallydon't see that I see some age
(41:20):
appropriate.
You know behaviors.
And I said you know, when youhave an older child that's had
significant issues, I said, andyou have this other child that
really has not, all of a sudden,when she just starts exhibiting
what we would consider someage-appropriate things, it can
(41:41):
seem really bad.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I go, she's fine, don't worry about it, she's fine
, it's the other one you need toworry about.
I never said that.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Are you kidding?
You were the kind of kid I lovebecause you were feisty.
Both of you are.
Both of you are Feisty, feisty.
Do I not live that every day?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Say out the feist.
Well we appreciate yourfeistiness and you've obviously
raised a really good teacher.
I talk about angie when I'mdealing with clients you know
who are looking at schooldistricts and you know the
school that she has been in inthe past wasn't maybe rated as
high and I was like I don'tthink that's a real good
testimony to what's happening,because my teacher, my sister,
(42:21):
teaches fourth grade and I wouldnot mess with her.
I would do exactly what shewanted in her classroom.
And you know, I mean and I knowBarb will say this too I work
with just all the teachers Iwork with Just they're
professional, they care.
I mean I just really as a wholeit just you bring a lot of it
(42:47):
home with you at night, yeah,and you worry about the kids, oh
, my God, I call it my, I callit my 3 am prayer list.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Okay, because you know, I mean you're just
constantly worrying about them.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I think, like anything,you know, we just we have to
remember everyone's doing theirbest.
And you have to remember toothat even with pandemic, you
know, as the kids came back withdifficulties and gaps and that
sort of thing, their best tolearn and do all that stuff,
(43:25):
everyone's just trying theirbest.
And you know, we just needgrace.
You know we just need to talkto people, teachers, we need to
talk to our teachers kindly.
Yes, because that's really whendid we?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
this is my sad, saddest thing.
When did teachers become theenemy?
When?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, right, I, I had a root canal recently.
What I've kind of noticed isthat people kind of behaved in
the way that they feel teachersare doing.
They're doing the teacher afavor, whereas I feel like the
teachers are giving guidance onhow to help raise your kid.
They're seeing your child in awhole different realm.
(44:05):
Yeah, so yeah, and that's awhole nother podcast.
But yes it is.
I'm saying, you know, I just Iwork with so many great people
and I think the profession, Ithink you know if there's any,
any, anything I just just thinkit's rare that you really find
teachers who aren't committed.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
We're not in it for the June, July and August,
because it's no longer June,July and August.
Oh my gosh, you work so manyhours beyond that, Are you
kidding?
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, I think everyone does, it's not just me.
We all have challenges withinour job, whether it's who we
have in our class that last yearor this year, or what resources
have been cut, or certain kidswho don't have the help they
need at home, or you know.
There's so many things that goon from classroom to classroom
(44:56):
and I think the teachers handleit the best they can, the best
they know how, with theresources they have and using
their own resources.
I think it just um.
There's so many great, greatteachers out there.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Well, thank you both for your time today.
I think we're going to wrap upnow and, uh, this has been
enlightening.
It's been so weird havingMichelle be quiet.
I'm the one that hears it.
She's never quiet, she's like,but she's trying to keep the
echo from happening in thebackground.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
It's really an honor to be associated with both of
you for so many years, and it'snice to meet you, michelle, for
the first time.
Yeah, I was happy to do it.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
All right, well, thank you, ladies, and we will
be out there and see you nextweek.
Sounds good, bye, bye.
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