November 10, 2023 • 31 mins
Navigating the bumpy road of co-parenting? Or perhaps you're dealing with an ex who's a narcissist or an abuser? This episode is designed just for you. We talk about complex co-parenting scenarios and the benefits of parallel parenting, with insights to lessen the disruption and chaos.
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I’ve Had It! Podcast
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DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace the advice you may be receiving from a licensed therapist.This podcast and website represents the opinions of KathyDan Moore, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Grief Coach Jess Lowe, and their guests to the show and website. The content here should not be taken as medical advice.
The content here is for informational purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions.Views and opinions expressed in the podcast and website are our own. While we make every effort to ensure that the information we are sharing is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
you packaging.
(00:42):
Thank you, welcome back tospelling the third T with
therapist Kathy Dan Moore andgrief coach Jess Lowe.
Hey, kathy Dan.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hey Jess, how's it going?
It's going.
You've had a week.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I have had a week, but I did just get one of my
results back.
I do not have celiac disease.
I'm so thankful that's good,because I love bread.
I would be too.
That would be like yeah.
If I had any cauliflower pizza,it just been like devastated.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I know Well, that's good, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So I'm waiting on a couple more results.
But I don't know, I just gotthe low iron and just exhausted
I feel exhausted for a differentreason.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, first of all, I was sick forever and it's still
like during, right, so I justneed sleep.
And now, like because Finndrives, you know he comes home
at like 1030 at night.
You know, sister friend, overhere, I'm done at like eight,
anytime after 830, everybodyneeds to just fuck right off.
You know personally.
(02:06):
But he's coming in at 1030.
He's making a full dinner.
He's like cooking chicken inthere.
The lights are on.
I'm too old for that kind ofracket at 1030 at night.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, I get so mad at my husband because I am in the
bed at like eight, like I'mgoing, yeah, my dad used to like
go watch CNN and in bed at likeseven and he'd always say I'm
getting horizontal.
So I still have my husband.
I'm going to get horizontal,yeah, and I'm telling you he's
like a night out.
He wants to come in there at 11o'clock.
(02:39):
I'm start locking the door andyou have to sleep in the guest
room.
I can't get my good room intomy good room when you come in to
rot me 11.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Exactly, and I really realized how cranky it was when
I was sick because my sleep wasso compromised and I'm like
this is no good.
So that's kind of my big likething that I feel cranky about.
But I do have something I wantto share with our listeners that
I found.
That I think was like a reallyfun find.
Okay, and you already knewabout it because I know I
(03:12):
mentioned it to you, but I havenewly discovered the podcast.
I've had it.
Oh my God, sometimes I have tostop listening to things like
what podcasts that are talkingabout trauma and the amygdala
and you know what I mean Likeand so I had run across maybe a
Tik Tok or something, and theny'all, I turned tuned into the
(03:36):
podcast.
I immediately sent it to acouple of my girlfriends that
I'm in my newly found book club,that I'm so excited about and I
sent it to them.
And then I texted one of myclients last night because the
Jennifer person on it one of theco-hosts Well yeah, he reminds
me so much, my client reminds meso much of her.
(03:58):
And they're both justhysterical.
But that is just making my day.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, I love pumps.
They're funny, so I saw I foundthem on Tik Tok, okay, and I
want to say that Jennifer waslike on one of the real
housewives or something.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think she was on like a home decorating show out
of Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, she was on something I want to say.
It was on the Bravo Networkabout real housewives of Beverly
Hills, because I was really sadbecause I was on it this year,
but that's like my guiltypleasure, you know, when you got
to get away from the thingsthat you have going on.
Yeah, they are hilarious andthey have great points, they
(04:41):
make great projects.
I know, and they're funny and Ifeel like sometimes you have to
laugh at situations.
That's kind of like a copingmechanism, right, like you laugh
at things For sure, and the waythey discuss, oh my gosh, they
end up there.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
For people who don't know, the whole premise is I've
had it, so they're all talkingabout things that they've had it
with, like people wearingscrubs out into society.
Pta meetings yeah, and theyhave callers who call in and
leave voicemails and they'refucking hysterical.
They are hilarious, yeah, theycry yeah, so that's my new happy
(05:19):
.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I told my sister about him yesterday.
I was like you've got to startlistening to them.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I hope everybody who listens to this turns it on and
listens.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It's just really funny.
They're so funny.
I love it, and you're right,you have to get away from all of
the mental health podcasts allthe time.
Sometimes you need somethingelse and I do have a couple of
guilty pleasures, like that'sone of them, yeah, and then like
coffee combos I don't know ifyou've heard of that.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Lowry she was on Teen Mom and then Todd Chrisley's
oldest daughter, LindsayChrisley.
They have a nice talk abouttheir lives and things that they
got.
But they're hilarious, likeit's just easy to listen to and
makes you crack up.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I know it's about balance right and I'm always
looking for balance which,speaking of, we're going to be
recording early next week, rightyeah, because I am leaving to
go to Los Angeles.
I say my motherland.
I was born in Florida.
I moved around like Boston, NewOrleans, atlanta, los Angeles,
but I feel like the most at home.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
You're a Cali girl.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, in Los Angeles I love, love, love living there.
I went to grad school there andthen my ride and die BFF from
Tulane, mari, lives there.
So I'm going out to visit Mariand she's like the peanut butter
to my jelly.
You know how you have thosefriends, that just kind of she
just takes my frenetic scalefrom like an eight to like a two
(06:47):
.
She just calms me down.
So I was like I got to make aplan to do this at least once a
year.
Well, I just go out and go tothe motherland and visit my
person.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Well, I want to shout out to my mom today, because
it's her birthday.
Happy birthday, the firstrecording is her birthday, not
the day that you guys listen toit, but today, the 26th, is my
mama's birthday, so happybirthday to my mama.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So when she hears it, happy, belated, yes.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
OK, so before we get started today, I did want to
talk about Maine for a second.
I just wanted to let everyoneknow that our thoughts and
prayers are with the familiesand loved ones of the victims in
last night's mass shooting inMaine.
Yeah, and we've talked aboutgun violence in a previous
episode and I do want to saythat mental illness is a global
(07:38):
issue, but mass shootings arenot Guys.
So we've got to do better withthe gun control and situation.
So we're praying for thosefamilies and anything that we
receive, any information wereceive as far as how you can
help those families in thefuture, will definitely be
posted on our social medias andthings like that.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's very sad.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
It is.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So today we're going to talk about something that is
not as sad as some of our otherones, but still frustrating.
We're going to talk about thedifference between co-parenting
and a phrase that a lot ofpeople aren't familiar with it's
called parallel parenting andthe ones who don't know what
that is, either they haven't hadto co-parent with a toxic X or
(08:20):
they are parenting with a toxicX and they didn't even know that
this was an option for how tobetter manage it.
So developing a parent and I domediation, so I do divorce
mediation, so I have a lot ofexperience in doing this and I
have also divorced myself sodeveloping a parenting
arrangement after separation ordivorce, it's hard, y'all Like
(08:41):
it is tough, and so, as manyparents know, when there's
underlying mental health issues,that can really complicate the
situation so much more.
So one of the most commonfactors that I see in mediation,
but mostly in the parentingcoordination cases that I have,
for high conflict ones, arenarcissistic personality
(09:03):
disorder and, as we've talkedabout this in the past, it's
characterized by this inflatedsense of self-importance and a
real lack of empathy.
So NPD, your narcissisticpersonality disorder, and just
generally high conflictpersonalities we're not just
talking about people whonecessarily meet the criteria.
They can make familyrestructuring a really arduous,
(09:28):
difficult, painful, miserableexperience.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
This is my first marriage.
We don't have children, but myhusband was previously married.
So I saw on the other side, asfar as the extra, the
step-parents seeing this, andthen my mom.
She never had to co-parent withmy birth father, so this is all
kind of new for me, but I dohave a lot of family and friends
(09:55):
that are in this situation.
So you know I see this a lot,and also through the counseling
group as well.
So let's first talk a littlebit about co-parenting.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I do want to say that's so interesting.
I just had a thought.
It's so funny becauseeverything I see, I see so much
through my adult experience.
But I also had parents thatwere divorced and somehow it
seems like I forget it and Iwonder it's interesting, I just
thought of this that I was twowhen they separated.
I think the actual divorce tooka long time but for all
(10:27):
practical purposes I was two andat the time so folks, I'm 48.
So at the time, you know,really, dads only had a little
bit of custody.
It was very standard to bemostly with mom and then visit
dad.
You know, I can't even remember.
I think maybe I went thereThursday nights and every other
(10:49):
weekend or something.
Yeah, I mean I remember going,because I remember the pizza
place.
I mean I did go regularly andhe took me to gymnastics on
Saturdays.
I do remember that, but like Idon't, and maybe I should ask my
mom, but I think the lion'sshare of decision-making fell,
at least in my experience, inthe mom's lap.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, and now it's not like that.
It's different, it's verydifferent yeah for sure, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
So co-parenting involves two separated or
divorced parents taking care oftheir children together.
So in a typical co-parentingscenario, both parents mutually
agree on a parenting style tominimize disruption and give the
children a consistentexpectations in each home,
co-parenting is the idealapproach for the children in
(11:37):
most cases.
Having clearly defined rolesacross both households will help
establish structure, which isreally important in their lives,
as well as minimize thepossibility of favoritism and
alienation of one of the parents.
Yeah, but however, like youmentioned, co-parenting with a
narcissist can be an impossibletask.
Effective co-parenting is onlypossible when parents can openly
(12:02):
and respectfully that's the bigone respectfully communicate
with each other.
This is seldom the case whenhigh conflict narcissistic
personalities are involved.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah.
So when you have a formerpartner who also happens to be a
narcissist, a situation thatmight already feel like an
uphill battle because it doescan become even worse.
So a narcissist parent orformer partner they really tend
to prioritize their needs aboveeveryone else's, even though the
(12:34):
double talk they may not besaying that that is what they're
doing, and it most often showsup by pushing boundaries and
breaking agreements.
And co-parenting with a parentin a divorced and separate
households relies on boundariesand agreements.
So dealing with a narcissist isoften difficult because of
(12:55):
their lack of empathy and theyhave a tendency to push back
with criticism, anger anddefensiveness.
So let's talk a little bitabout how, if you're
co-parenting with a narcissist,like what they can do to better
understand what that even lookslike like, how maybe list out
(13:16):
some of the things of what someof the signs are that?
they're co-parenting with anarcissist.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah.
So if you're in the midst of asplit, you might notice
self-centered or othereyebrow-raising behaviors from
your partner, but certain traitsmay indicate narcissism, such
as they may struggle to stick toagreements.
They could refuse to beflexible but put the kids in the
middle of disagreements betweenthe two of you, which is like
the number one.
No-no, oh no.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Don't talk about this stuff in front of the kids.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
They use manipulation when they want something.
They could try to spoil goodthings you experience with
criticism or punishing behaviorsdue to envy.
They offer love and affectiononly as a conditional reward
rather than a natural expression.
They can be rigid in theirthoughts and demeanor to control
their children or partners.
(14:06):
They'll punish loved ones fortheir lack of obedience or for
challenging their authority.
They'll boast excessively.
We see that a lot.
They demonstrate feelings ofpersonal superiority and they
lack empathy.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Right, fun fun.
Those are fun fun times.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I definitely want to be around somebody like
that all the time.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So sometimes people can have these traits without
being a narcissist.
Right, it's really not uncommonfor parents going through a
divorce to put the kids in themiddle, and it's not good.
We shouldn't do it.
I have lots of clients thatcome in and they feel badly that
they have done it.
Yeah, they're not a narcissist.
When you feel like you'verecognized you've done it and
(14:51):
you feel remorse and guilt overit, that doesn't mean you're a
narcissist and they're trying tocorrect it in the future.
Yes, exactly, and they'retrying to correct it.
By the way, in some degreeWe've all done some of these to
some degree.
So, and with any behavior,narcissism really has a varying
degree of severity, and we'vetalked about that a little bit
(15:12):
before.
So some people may meet thecriteria, but some people don't
and just have like a sprinklingof those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, you can have traits but not have the disorder
Exactly which we've mentionedin previous.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, and so we all have the trait that builds.
The traits essentially helpbuild self-esteem and self-worth
.
So the difference is that NPDwith the person who has a
persistent way of constantlyfeeling wounded, wronged and
victimized and they can'ttolerate your success when set
(15:44):
alongside theirs.
So they're entitled, but theydon't feel shameful about being
entitled.
So this can make it difficultto parent with them, but it's
not impossible.
So this is where I reallypresent the parallel parenting
approach, because that entailsthat both parties are really
parenting by their own rules,with minimum communication and
(16:10):
no disruption from either parent.
I can't say that slowly or moreemphatically enough.
Yeah, so it requires more focus, more attention to detail and
conflict management skills thana typical co-parenting structure
would.
And I also want to point outthat sometimes people can flow
(16:32):
from co-parenting to parallelparenting, sometimes depending
on situations, right, but if youare parenting with somebody who
is narcissistic, follow theparallel parenting, because many
narcissists are masters ofexploitation and turning the
tables in their favor.
(16:52):
So parallel parentingarrangements need to be free of
any loopholes or other ways thatyour ex can continue to wreak
havoc on your end or in yourchild's lives.
So I read this one techniqueonline once and I think it's.
I'm always up for acronyms andI think this makes it easy
because so it's called the N-E-Btechnique and it's a real easy,
(17:15):
like starter kit right forparallel parenting.
So N is for necessary.
Ask yourself is thiscommunication or reply necessary
?
So a nasty text about howhorrible a parent you are?
Ignore that, that's notnecessary.
Take a screenshot of it.
Yeah, save it, save it, saveeverything.
(17:37):
But then a text like that youget about childcare yeah, that
warrants a reply.
That's necessary.
So E is for emotionless.
So construct emotionlessreplies Quick, professional,
concise, no emotion.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Like think before you speak type thing, like really
think about what you're doingyes, pause, because you don't
want to let anger jump in, right?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So, as hard as that is and as as curated as you
might feel, so some reallybenefit in waiting at least an
hour or two before sending thereply.
I'm going to tell you, evenwhen you're not doing this with
a narcissistic acts, even whenyou're just dealing with an acts
, because you're not alwaysgoing to see things eye to eye
Wait in your reply so thatyou're not coming from an
(18:29):
emotional triggered place.
Then you can edit for tone,right, yeah, so, and then the B
is for brief.
Make the reply brief.
One or two sentences willalmost always suffice, truly so.
More than that just opens thedoor for manipulation and twist,
twisting the words and suckingyou into an argument.
(18:50):
It's like the brain deadresponses that we've talked
about so many times.
If your acts is making asuggestion, thanks for letting
me know.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Thanks for your.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
My like.
I my that I tell everybody itis sounds good Like, unless it's
necessary and you can do itwith an emotionless reply.
A very brief sounds good willdo I'm a sounds gooder, so I'm a
sounds gooder too Even and Idon't want people who I write
sounds good to think that Ithink they're gaslighting me or
(19:21):
being a narcissist, Cause Iactually use it kind of across
the board.
You know that I've read yourmessage, Cause I probably sounds
good to you, manjula, all thetime, and it's not cause I think
you're a narcissist.
I think I do that to you too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm like I know, or the thumbs up and I'm like
people probably think the thumbsup's like the middle finger,
but no, like I'm just sayinglike I got it, but like your
reception, I don't want to belike ding ding, ding in, but you
know.
But let's talk about someadditional steps to be
successful in parallel parenting.
So staying grounded in what youknow to be true.
(19:54):
So it's easy to doubt yourselfwhen you're dealing with a
narcissistic parent.
So be prepared to hear throughothers about all the ways you
harm the children and areengaging in parental alienation.
Even if you know that these areexaggerated, embellished or flat
out lies.
Those who believe the lies,they're not there for you and
that's not the same asfriendships, If something about
(20:17):
you and they believe it likethey're not for you.
So those that are truly therefor you will know the truth.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Exactly, and it's hard because part of what
happens when you get a divorceis your whole fabric of your
community is disrupted, yeah,and so you don't want people to
believe that you're thisterrible parent that's doing
these horrible things andalienating, right, and so it's
very hard to stay in it grounded.
But you're right, the peoplethat are there are there.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It's also, like you know, actions do speak louder
than words.
So, like you know, Amen sister,the truth's gonna be in the
silence, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yes, oh, write that down.
That's like a little nugget,yeah, and then choosing your
battles wisely.
This is tough, but do notattempt to rebuke every single
allegation and lie or your wholelife is gonna be wrapped up in
rebuking allegations and lies.
So if it doesn't involve yourchildren or your livelihood, let
(21:15):
it the fuck go.
Yeah, children, livelihood, letit the fuck go.
So limit or end contact withpeople who do not support you,
because you don't have space fortrying to convince people right
and we talk about this all thetime.
We only have so much bandwidth.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
And I'm like other people's, like thoughts about me
honestly and none of mybusiness.
And it don't matter, you know,as long as you're not like
trying to, there you go girl.
Send her to jail for something.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It don't matter.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Avoid bad malding that other parent in front of
your children and extendedfamily you know, so even while
defending yourself, keep thefocus on disputing the untruths
and not on the person doing thedamage.
Trying to prove your case byspeaking ill of this person can
have the unfortunate effect ofmaking you also look vindictive.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, you're thinking like, and then it's like their
level.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Well, you're doing the same thing, yeah, yeah.
We don't sink.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And then like you said before, let your actions as
a parent speak for themselves.
This is the long game, rightyeah?
Which parenting is the longgame?
But recognize that you're doingthe slow unfold here, so don't
attempt to expose them or provewhat they're doing to you.
Stay in your lane.
Stay focused on keepingyourself and your children safe,
(22:31):
happy, healthy and eventuallyother people will see the
patterns.
But you're playing the longgame here, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, and then also have everything in writing, and
that is the one good thing abouthaving smart technology these
days.
Yes, don't enter that phonecall from your ex.
Make them text you, make themsend you an email.
So if an ex partner is tryingto create chaos for you, they'll
likely try to manipulateconversations they have with you
and your children.
So try to have as muchcommunication as possible in
(23:00):
writing.
Yeah, avoid compromise.
When trying to parallel parentwith an abusive ex, they may ask
you to make compromises.
Just switch Saturdays or a fewhours here and there.
Do not agree to anything thatis not in a court order.
Doing so will come back to biteyou in court, and you've talked
about this.
As far as your parentingcoordination, they might try to
(23:22):
pin the changes they suggestedon you, using it to show the
judge that you are not followingorders.
So stick to the court orders asmuch as you can.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Girl, I see this all the time, yeah, right, like, but
you let me have them onSaturday before.
So obviously you think I'mdoing fine parenting, even
though the person is now openlyusing drugs in front of their
children, right or yeah, andeven when I'm doing, I kind of
give this as like a warning.
When I'm doing mediations I hada really lovely couple on Monday
(23:54):
and I was doing their mediationand they get along great.
They're really on the same pageand I'm like I still am going
to write it all down with theT's crossed and the I's dotted,
because, if God forbid,something happens and something
goes sideways.
Now you have a document thatyou think to exactly, but when
(24:15):
you get willy nilly and youdon't write it all down exactly,
there's a lot of room forinterpretation and we really
don't want a toxic X making theinterpretation.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Right, and I did have a question about this part as
far as not switching things.
Now, if there's somethingthat's important in that and the
other person's family likethat's a big event and they know
in advance if they saysomething to you, would you
recommend letting your attorneyknow?
Hey, this is what they'reasking.
I'm going to swap this, likethat's something that you still
(24:46):
have a document.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, so document it, I would just document it.
I don't know that I would letan attorney know because they'll
be looking for it.
Yeah, so I would just put in an.
I always tell people, put in anemail back.
I see that you've requestedthat you have our children
because your mother is coming intown and will only be here on
my night.
I am agreeing, on this one time, only occasion, that you can
(25:10):
have the kids from six to nine.
Yeah, there you go, Document it, document it.
So and then limit the avenues ofcontact kind of within that
vein.
You know, an abusive ex-partnerdoes not need every phone
number, email address, directmessaging option available to
you.
As a parallel parent, you wantcommunication.
(25:33):
I mean it's going to have to benecessary, but you want to
streamline it.
So create one or two dedicatedlines of communication where
they can reach you and use themonly when it's necessary.
So, if possible, there arecourt recommended apps.
There's talking parents and.
I'm forgetting the other oneright now, but there's two that
(25:55):
are that track everything that'swritten there said, and so in
parallel parenting I always tellpeople use those apps because
then you can really see thewhole like absolutely of
communication.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I know somebody that she only emails with her ex for
the children.
He's not to call her unless itis a emergency.
They're at the hospital, Godforbid, or you know, and vice
versa.
That way your phone's notgetting blown up constantly and
it makes it easy, because thenyou don't have to decide whether
(26:34):
or not to answer.
You know if it's an emergency.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
The emergency should be a text first that says this
is an emergency.
Please call me Okay, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Absolutely yeah.
And then you know that's again.
We're talking about theparallel parenting, co-parenting
.
They have more.
You know you might have easierlines of communication, but this
is when you're really dealingwith somebody that is toxic.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, so all right.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Well, anything you want to add.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I think that covers it.
I hope this was helpful.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I think it is.
I mean, I don't have children,but I do.
I currently know a lot ofpeople that are going through
things like this, so I believeit's going to be very helpful
for our listeners.
Good, we do have an answer.
Awesome.
From anonymous says my son is asenior in high school and is
experiencing anxiety when itcomes to college decisions.
(27:28):
He is worried he will make thewrong choice on not only which
school to choose, as well as hismajor.
Any tips to help calm hisnerves and ease the anxiety?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
It is so hard.
Well, I mean, number one is youcan always switch it.
Nothing is concrete right.
So if you get in there and youdecide that this isn't the right
major for you, you can switchit If you get to the school.
I know plenty of people whostarted at one school and it
didn't really work for them andthey were able to switch it.
So, although these are hard andI know money is involved you
(28:03):
really will be able to changeyour mind.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And that's part of the experience in the learning
process.
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's very normal to have anxious feeling when it
comes to this.
I would start by listing theschools that you are interested
in going on those tours anddoing the pros and cons.
I'm a pros and cons girl, yeah.
I'm a pros and cons for theschool I was choosing.
I'd have pros and cons for themajors I might be interested.
In that way you not only have amajor that you're choosing but
(28:35):
you also have those backupmajors to keep in mind.
If you decide that this reallyisn't for you, there's really no
harm in switching your majorafter, like the two, the first
two years you're doing all yourbasics that you're going to have
to have for most majors anyways.
So that's going to give youtime to really see if you're
liking some of the classes thatare for just that major, and
(28:55):
then you can decide.
We are not always the sameperson we are a year from now,
so you might like somethingcompletely different.
And then if you're justcontinuously having those
anxious feelings and it's wherehe's not being able to function,
get him in with a counselor.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's always a good idea totalk to other kiddos that are at
the schools that you're lookingat and ask them what do they
really love the most?
What do?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
they.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, and kind of get a feelingfor yeah those keepers tours
are great.
Yes, yeah, for sure, all right.
Well, good luck.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yay, Good luck.
Thank you to our listeners forlistening and joining us today.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
review on Apple Podcast.
This will help us move up thechart and be more accessible to
new listeners.
You can also follow us onInstagram and Facebook.
We'll have those linked below.
If you have a question for usand answered segment, email us
at askusatspellingthetheritycom.
(29:55):
We also have our new websitelinked below as well.
We'll continue to add theresources and information there
as well.
I hope everyone has a greatweekend.
We are your hosts, Kathy Deyand more and Jess Ly.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And join us next time where we will be discussing
sociopaths.
We'll be breaking it down whenSip at a Time.
you packaging.
(00:42):
Thank you, welcome back tospelling the third T with
therapist Kathy Dan Moore andgrief coach Jess Lowe.
Hey, kathy Dan.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hey Jess, how's it going?
It's going.
You've had a week.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I have had a week, but I did just get one of my
results back.
I do not have celiac disease.
I'm so thankful that's good,because I love bread.
I would be too.
That would be like yeah.
If I had any cauliflower pizza,it just been like devastated.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I know Well, that's good, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So I'm waiting on a couple more results.
But I don't know, I just gotthe low iron and just exhausted
I feel exhausted for a differentreason.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, first of all, I was sick forever and it's still
like during, right, so I justneed sleep.
And now, like because Finndrives, you know he comes home
at like 1030 at night.
You know, sister friend, overhere, I'm done at like eight,
anytime after 830, everybodyneeds to just fuck right off.
You know personally.
(02:06):
But he's coming in at 1030.
He's making a full dinner.
He's like cooking chicken inthere.
The lights are on.
I'm too old for that kind ofracket at 1030 at night.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, I get so mad at my husband because I am in the
bed at like eight, like I'mgoing, yeah, my dad used to like
go watch CNN and in bed at likeseven and he'd always say I'm
getting horizontal.
So I still have my husband.
I'm going to get horizontal,yeah, and I'm telling you he's
like a night out.
He wants to come in there at 11o'clock.
(02:39):
I'm start locking the door andyou have to sleep in the guest
room.
I can't get my good room intomy good room when you come in to
rot me 11.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Exactly, and I really realized how cranky it was when
I was sick because my sleep wasso compromised and I'm like
this is no good.
So that's kind of my big likething that I feel cranky about.
But I do have something I wantto share with our listeners that
I found.
That I think was like a reallyfun find.
Okay, and you already knewabout it because I know I
(03:12):
mentioned it to you, but I havenewly discovered the podcast.
I've had it.
Oh my God, sometimes I have tostop listening to things like
what podcasts that are talkingabout trauma and the amygdala
and you know what I mean Likeand so I had run across maybe a
Tik Tok or something, and theny'all, I turned tuned into the
(03:36):
podcast.
I immediately sent it to acouple of my girlfriends that
I'm in my newly found book club,that I'm so excited about and I
sent it to them.
And then I texted one of myclients last night because the
Jennifer person on it one of theco-hosts Well yeah, he reminds
me so much, my client reminds meso much of her.
(03:58):
And they're both justhysterical.
But that is just making my day.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, I love pumps.
They're funny, so I saw I foundthem on Tik Tok, okay, and I
want to say that Jennifer waslike on one of the real
housewives or something.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think she was on like a home decorating show out
of Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, she was on something I want to say.
It was on the Bravo Networkabout real housewives of Beverly
Hills, because I was really sadbecause I was on it this year,
but that's like my guiltypleasure, you know, when you got
to get away from the thingsthat you have going on.
Yeah, they are hilarious andthey have great points, they
(04:41):
make great projects.
I know, and they're funny and Ifeel like sometimes you have to
laugh at situations.
That's kind of like a copingmechanism, right, like you laugh
at things For sure, and the waythey discuss, oh my gosh, they
end up there.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
For people who don't know, the whole premise is I've
had it, so they're all talkingabout things that they've had it
with, like people wearingscrubs out into society.
Pta meetings yeah, and theyhave callers who call in and
leave voicemails and they'refucking hysterical.
They are hilarious, yeah, theycry yeah, so that's my new happy
(05:19):
.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I told my sister about him yesterday.
I was like you've got to startlistening to them.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I hope everybody who listens to this turns it on and
listens.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It's just really funny.
They're so funny.
I love it, and you're right,you have to get away from all of
the mental health podcasts allthe time.
Sometimes you need somethingelse and I do have a couple of
guilty pleasures, like that'sone of them, yeah, and then like
coffee combos I don't know ifyou've heard of that.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Lowry she was on Teen Mom and then Todd Chrisley's
oldest daughter, LindsayChrisley.
They have a nice talk abouttheir lives and things that they
got.
But they're hilarious, likeit's just easy to listen to and
makes you crack up.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I know it's about balance right and I'm always
looking for balance which,speaking of, we're going to be
recording early next week, rightyeah, because I am leaving to
go to Los Angeles.
I say my motherland.
I was born in Florida.
I moved around like Boston, NewOrleans, atlanta, los Angeles,
but I feel like the most at home.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
You're a Cali girl.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, in Los Angeles I love, love, love living there.
I went to grad school there andthen my ride and die BFF from
Tulane, mari, lives there.
So I'm going out to visit Mariand she's like the peanut butter
to my jelly.
You know how you have thosefriends, that just kind of she
just takes my frenetic scalefrom like an eight to like a two
(06:47):
.
She just calms me down.
So I was like I got to make aplan to do this at least once a
year.
Well, I just go out and go tothe motherland and visit my
person.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Well, I want to shout out to my mom today, because
it's her birthday.
Happy birthday, the firstrecording is her birthday, not
the day that you guys listen toit, but today, the 26th, is my
mama's birthday, so happybirthday to my mama.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So when she hears it, happy, belated, yes.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
OK, so before we get started today, I did want to
talk about Maine for a second.
I just wanted to let everyoneknow that our thoughts and
prayers are with the familiesand loved ones of the victims in
last night's mass shooting inMaine.
Yeah, and we've talked aboutgun violence in a previous
episode and I do want to saythat mental illness is a global
(07:38):
issue, but mass shootings arenot Guys.
So we've got to do better withthe gun control and situation.
So we're praying for thosefamilies and anything that we
receive, any information wereceive as far as how you can
help those families in thefuture, will definitely be
posted on our social medias andthings like that.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's very sad.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
It is.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So today we're going to talk about something that is
not as sad as some of our otherones, but still frustrating.
We're going to talk about thedifference between co-parenting
and a phrase that a lot ofpeople aren't familiar with it's
called parallel parenting andthe ones who don't know what
that is, either they haven't hadto co-parent with a toxic X or
(08:20):
they are parenting with a toxicX and they didn't even know that
this was an option for how tobetter manage it.
So developing a parent and I domediation, so I do divorce
mediation, so I have a lot ofexperience in doing this and I
have also divorced myself sodeveloping a parenting
arrangement after separation ordivorce, it's hard, y'all Like
(08:41):
it is tough, and so, as manyparents know, when there's
underlying mental health issues,that can really complicate the
situation so much more.
So one of the most commonfactors that I see in mediation,
but mostly in the parentingcoordination cases that I have,
for high conflict ones, arenarcissistic personality
(09:03):
disorder and, as we've talkedabout this in the past, it's
characterized by this inflatedsense of self-importance and a
real lack of empathy.
So NPD, your narcissisticpersonality disorder, and just
generally high conflictpersonalities we're not just
talking about people whonecessarily meet the criteria.
They can make familyrestructuring a really arduous,
(09:28):
difficult, painful, miserableexperience.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
This is my first marriage.
We don't have children, but myhusband was previously married.
So I saw on the other side, asfar as the extra, the
step-parents seeing this, andthen my mom.
She never had to co-parent withmy birth father, so this is all
kind of new for me, but I dohave a lot of family and friends
(09:55):
that are in this situation.
So you know I see this a lot,and also through the counseling
group as well.
So let's first talk a littlebit about co-parenting.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I do want to say that's so interesting.
I just had a thought.
It's so funny becauseeverything I see, I see so much
through my adult experience.
But I also had parents thatwere divorced and somehow it
seems like I forget it and Iwonder it's interesting, I just
thought of this that I was twowhen they separated.
I think the actual divorce tooka long time but for all
(10:27):
practical purposes I was two andat the time so folks, I'm 48.
So at the time, you know,really, dads only had a little
bit of custody.
It was very standard to bemostly with mom and then visit
dad.
You know, I can't even remember.
I think maybe I went thereThursday nights and every other
(10:49):
weekend or something.
Yeah, I mean I remember going,because I remember the pizza
place.
I mean I did go regularly andhe took me to gymnastics on
Saturdays.
I do remember that, but like Idon't, and maybe I should ask my
mom, but I think the lion'sshare of decision-making fell,
at least in my experience, inthe mom's lap.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, and now it's not like that.
It's different, it's verydifferent yeah for sure, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
So co-parenting involves two separated or
divorced parents taking care oftheir children together.
So in a typical co-parentingscenario, both parents mutually
agree on a parenting style tominimize disruption and give the
children a consistentexpectations in each home,
co-parenting is the idealapproach for the children in
(11:37):
most cases.
Having clearly defined rolesacross both households will help
establish structure, which isreally important in their lives,
as well as minimize thepossibility of favoritism and
alienation of one of the parents.
Yeah, but however, like youmentioned, co-parenting with a
narcissist can be an impossibletask.
Effective co-parenting is onlypossible when parents can openly
(12:02):
and respectfully that's the bigone respectfully communicate
with each other.
This is seldom the case whenhigh conflict narcissistic
personalities are involved.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah.
So when you have a formerpartner who also happens to be a
narcissist, a situation thatmight already feel like an
uphill battle because it doescan become even worse.
So a narcissist parent orformer partner they really tend
to prioritize their needs aboveeveryone else's, even though the
(12:34):
double talk they may not besaying that that is what they're
doing, and it most often showsup by pushing boundaries and
breaking agreements.
And co-parenting with a parentin a divorced and separate
households relies on boundariesand agreements.
So dealing with a narcissist isoften difficult because of
(12:55):
their lack of empathy and theyhave a tendency to push back
with criticism, anger anddefensiveness.
So let's talk a little bitabout how, if you're
co-parenting with a narcissist,like what they can do to better
understand what that even lookslike like, how maybe list out
(13:16):
some of the things of what someof the signs are that?
they're co-parenting with anarcissist.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah.
So if you're in the midst of asplit, you might notice
self-centered or othereyebrow-raising behaviors from
your partner, but certain traitsmay indicate narcissism, such
as they may struggle to stick toagreements.
They could refuse to beflexible but put the kids in the
middle of disagreements betweenthe two of you, which is like
the number one.
No-no, oh no.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Don't talk about this stuff in front of the kids.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
They use manipulation when they want something.
They could try to spoil goodthings you experience with
criticism or punishing behaviorsdue to envy.
They offer love and affectiononly as a conditional reward
rather than a natural expression.
They can be rigid in theirthoughts and demeanor to control
their children or partners.
(14:06):
They'll punish loved ones fortheir lack of obedience or for
challenging their authority.
They'll boast excessively.
We see that a lot.
They demonstrate feelings ofpersonal superiority and they
lack empathy.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Right, fun fun.
Those are fun fun times.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I definitely want to be around somebody like
that all the time.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So sometimes people can have these traits without
being a narcissist.
Right, it's really not uncommonfor parents going through a
divorce to put the kids in themiddle, and it's not good.
We shouldn't do it.
I have lots of clients thatcome in and they feel badly that
they have done it.
Yeah, they're not a narcissist.
When you feel like you'verecognized you've done it and
(14:51):
you feel remorse and guilt overit, that doesn't mean you're a
narcissist and they're trying tocorrect it in the future.
Yes, exactly, and they'retrying to correct it.
By the way, in some degreeWe've all done some of these to
some degree.
So, and with any behavior,narcissism really has a varying
degree of severity, and we'vetalked about that a little bit
(15:12):
before.
So some people may meet thecriteria, but some people don't
and just have like a sprinklingof those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, you can have traits but not have the disorder
Exactly which we've mentionedin previous.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, and so we all have the trait that builds.
The traits essentially helpbuild self-esteem and self-worth
.
So the difference is that NPDwith the person who has a
persistent way of constantlyfeeling wounded, wronged and
victimized and they can'ttolerate your success when set
(15:44):
alongside theirs.
So they're entitled, but theydon't feel shameful about being
entitled.
So this can make it difficultto parent with them, but it's
not impossible.
So this is where I reallypresent the parallel parenting
approach, because that entailsthat both parties are really
parenting by their own rules,with minimum communication and
(16:10):
no disruption from either parent.
I can't say that slowly or moreemphatically enough.
Yeah, so it requires more focus, more attention to detail and
conflict management skills thana typical co-parenting structure
would.
And I also want to point outthat sometimes people can flow
(16:32):
from co-parenting to parallelparenting, sometimes depending
on situations, right, but if youare parenting with somebody who
is narcissistic, follow theparallel parenting, because many
narcissists are masters ofexploitation and turning the
tables in their favor.
(16:52):
So parallel parentingarrangements need to be free of
any loopholes or other ways thatyour ex can continue to wreak
havoc on your end or in yourchild's lives.
So I read this one techniqueonline once and I think it's.
I'm always up for acronyms andI think this makes it easy
because so it's called the N-E-Btechnique and it's a real easy,
(17:15):
like starter kit right forparallel parenting.
So N is for necessary.
Ask yourself is thiscommunication or reply necessary
?
So a nasty text about howhorrible a parent you are?
Ignore that, that's notnecessary.
Take a screenshot of it.
Yeah, save it, save it, saveeverything.
(17:37):
But then a text like that youget about childcare yeah, that
warrants a reply.
That's necessary.
So E is for emotionless.
So construct emotionlessreplies Quick, professional,
concise, no emotion.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Like think before you speak type thing, like really
think about what you're doingyes, pause, because you don't
want to let anger jump in, right?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So, as hard as that is and as as curated as you
might feel, so some reallybenefit in waiting at least an
hour or two before sending thereply.
I'm going to tell you, evenwhen you're not doing this with
a narcissistic acts, even whenyou're just dealing with an acts
, because you're not alwaysgoing to see things eye to eye
Wait in your reply so thatyou're not coming from an
(18:29):
emotional triggered place.
Then you can edit for tone,right, yeah, so, and then the B
is for brief.
Make the reply brief.
One or two sentences willalmost always suffice, truly so.
More than that just opens thedoor for manipulation and twist,
twisting the words and suckingyou into an argument.
(18:50):
It's like the brain deadresponses that we've talked
about so many times.
If your acts is making asuggestion, thanks for letting
me know.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Thanks for your.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
My like.
I my that I tell everybody itis sounds good Like, unless it's
necessary and you can do itwith an emotionless reply.
A very brief sounds good willdo I'm a sounds gooder, so I'm a
sounds gooder too Even and Idon't want people who I write
sounds good to think that Ithink they're gaslighting me or
(19:21):
being a narcissist, Cause Iactually use it kind of across
the board.
You know that I've read yourmessage, Cause I probably sounds
good to you, manjula, all thetime, and it's not cause I think
you're a narcissist.
I think I do that to you too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm like I know, or the thumbs up and I'm like
people probably think the thumbsup's like the middle finger,
but no, like I'm just sayinglike I got it, but like your
reception, I don't want to belike ding ding, ding in, but you
know.
But let's talk about someadditional steps to be
successful in parallel parenting.
So staying grounded in what youknow to be true.
(19:54):
So it's easy to doubt yourselfwhen you're dealing with a
narcissistic parent.
So be prepared to hear throughothers about all the ways you
harm the children and areengaging in parental alienation.
Even if you know that these areexaggerated, embellished or flat
out lies.
Those who believe the lies,they're not there for you and
that's not the same asfriendships, If something about
(20:17):
you and they believe it likethey're not for you.
So those that are truly therefor you will know the truth.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Exactly, and it's hard because part of what
happens when you get a divorceis your whole fabric of your
community is disrupted, yeah,and so you don't want people to
believe that you're thisterrible parent that's doing
these horrible things andalienating, right, and so it's
very hard to stay in it grounded.
But you're right, the peoplethat are there are there.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It's also, like you know, actions do speak louder
than words.
So, like you know, Amen sister,the truth's gonna be in the
silence, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yes, oh, write that down.
That's like a little nugget,yeah, and then choosing your
battles wisely.
This is tough, but do notattempt to rebuke every single
allegation and lie or your wholelife is gonna be wrapped up in
rebuking allegations and lies.
So if it doesn't involve yourchildren or your livelihood, let
(21:15):
it the fuck go.
Yeah, children, livelihood, letit the fuck go.
So limit or end contact withpeople who do not support you,
because you don't have space fortrying to convince people right
and we talk about this all thetime.
We only have so much bandwidth.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
And I'm like other people's, like thoughts about me
honestly and none of mybusiness.
And it don't matter, you know,as long as you're not like
trying to, there you go girl.
Send her to jail for something.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It don't matter.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Avoid bad malding that other parent in front of
your children and extendedfamily you know, so even while
defending yourself, keep thefocus on disputing the untruths
and not on the person doing thedamage.
Trying to prove your case byspeaking ill of this person can
have the unfortunate effect ofmaking you also look vindictive.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, you're thinking like, and then it's like their
level.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Well, you're doing the same thing, yeah, yeah.
We don't sink.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And then like you said before, let your actions as
a parent speak for themselves.
This is the long game, rightyeah?
Which parenting is the longgame?
But recognize that you're doingthe slow unfold here, so don't
attempt to expose them or provewhat they're doing to you.
Stay in your lane.
Stay focused on keepingyourself and your children safe,
(22:31):
happy, healthy and eventuallyother people will see the
patterns.
But you're playing the longgame here, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, and then also have everything in writing, and
that is the one good thing abouthaving smart technology these
days.
Yes, don't enter that phonecall from your ex.
Make them text you, make themsend you an email.
So if an ex partner is tryingto create chaos for you, they'll
likely try to manipulateconversations they have with you
and your children.
So try to have as muchcommunication as possible in
(23:00):
writing.
Yeah, avoid compromise.
When trying to parallel parentwith an abusive ex, they may ask
you to make compromises.
Just switch Saturdays or a fewhours here and there.
Do not agree to anything thatis not in a court order.
Doing so will come back to biteyou in court, and you've talked
about this.
As far as your parentingcoordination, they might try to
(23:22):
pin the changes they suggestedon you, using it to show the
judge that you are not followingorders.
So stick to the court orders asmuch as you can.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Girl, I see this all the time, yeah, right, like, but
you let me have them onSaturday before.
So obviously you think I'mdoing fine parenting, even
though the person is now openlyusing drugs in front of their
children, right or yeah, andeven when I'm doing, I kind of
give this as like a warning.
When I'm doing mediations I hada really lovely couple on Monday
(23:54):
and I was doing their mediationand they get along great.
They're really on the same pageand I'm like I still am going
to write it all down with theT's crossed and the I's dotted,
because, if God forbid,something happens and something
goes sideways.
Now you have a document thatyou think to exactly, but when
(24:15):
you get willy nilly and youdon't write it all down exactly,
there's a lot of room forinterpretation and we really
don't want a toxic X making theinterpretation.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Right, and I did have a question about this part as
far as not switching things.
Now, if there's somethingthat's important in that and the
other person's family likethat's a big event and they know
in advance if they saysomething to you, would you
recommend letting your attorneyknow?
Hey, this is what they'reasking.
I'm going to swap this, likethat's something that you still
(24:46):
have a document.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, so document it, I would just document it.
I don't know that I would letan attorney know because they'll
be looking for it.
Yeah, so I would just put in an.
I always tell people, put in anemail back.
I see that you've requestedthat you have our children
because your mother is coming intown and will only be here on
my night.
I am agreeing, on this one time, only occasion, that you can
(25:10):
have the kids from six to nine.
Yeah, there you go, Document it, document it.
So and then limit the avenues ofcontact kind of within that
vein.
You know, an abusive ex-partnerdoes not need every phone
number, email address, directmessaging option available to
you.
As a parallel parent, you wantcommunication.
(25:33):
I mean it's going to have to benecessary, but you want to
streamline it.
So create one or two dedicatedlines of communication where
they can reach you and use themonly when it's necessary.
So, if possible, there arecourt recommended apps.
There's talking parents and.
I'm forgetting the other oneright now, but there's two that
(25:55):
are that track everything that'swritten there said, and so in
parallel parenting I always tellpeople use those apps because
then you can really see thewhole like absolutely of
communication.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I know somebody that she only emails with her ex for
the children.
He's not to call her unless itis a emergency.
They're at the hospital, Godforbid, or you know, and vice
versa.
That way your phone's notgetting blown up constantly and
it makes it easy, because thenyou don't have to decide whether
(26:34):
or not to answer.
You know if it's an emergency.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
The emergency should be a text first that says this
is an emergency.
Please call me Okay, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Absolutely yeah.
And then you know that's again.
We're talking about theparallel parenting, co-parenting
.
They have more.
You know you might have easierlines of communication, but this
is when you're really dealingwith somebody that is toxic.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, so all right.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Well, anything you want to add.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I think that covers it.
I hope this was helpful.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I think it is.
I mean, I don't have children,but I do.
I currently know a lot ofpeople that are going through
things like this, so I believeit's going to be very helpful
for our listeners.
Good, we do have an answer.
Awesome.
From anonymous says my son is asenior in high school and is
experiencing anxiety when itcomes to college decisions.
(27:28):
He is worried he will make thewrong choice on not only which
school to choose, as well as hismajor.
Any tips to help calm hisnerves and ease the anxiety?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
It is so hard.
Well, I mean, number one is youcan always switch it.
Nothing is concrete right.
So if you get in there and youdecide that this isn't the right
major for you, you can switchit If you get to the school.
I know plenty of people whostarted at one school and it
didn't really work for them andthey were able to switch it.
So, although these are hard andI know money is involved you
(28:03):
really will be able to changeyour mind.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And that's part of the experience in the learning
process.
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's very normal to have anxious feeling when it
comes to this.
I would start by listing theschools that you are interested
in going on those tours anddoing the pros and cons.
I'm a pros and cons girl, yeah.
I'm a pros and cons for theschool I was choosing.
I'd have pros and cons for themajors I might be interested.
In that way you not only have amajor that you're choosing but
(28:35):
you also have those backupmajors to keep in mind.
If you decide that this reallyisn't for you, there's really no
harm in switching your majorafter, like the two, the first
two years you're doing all yourbasics that you're going to have
to have for most majors anyways.
So that's going to give youtime to really see if you're
liking some of the classes thatare for just that major, and
(28:55):
then you can decide.
We are not always the sameperson we are a year from now,
so you might like somethingcompletely different.
And then if you're justcontinuously having those
anxious feelings and it's wherehe's not being able to function,
get him in with a counselor.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's always a good idea totalk to other kiddos that are at
the schools that you're lookingat and ask them what do they
really love the most?
What do?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
they.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, and kind of get a feelingfor yeah those keepers tours
are great.
Yes, yeah, for sure, all right.
Well, good luck.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yay, Good luck.
Thank you to our listeners forlistening and joining us today.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
review on Apple Podcast.
This will help us move up thechart and be more accessible to
new listeners.
You can also follow us onInstagram and Facebook.
We'll have those linked below.
If you have a question for usand answered segment, email us
at askusatspellingthetheritycom.
(29:55):
We also have our new websitelinked below as well.
We'll continue to add theresources and information there
as well.
I hope everyone has a greatweekend.
We are your hosts, Kathy Deyand more and Jess Ly.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And join us next time where we will be discussing
sociopaths.
We'll be breaking it down whenSip at a Time.
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