October 20, 2023 • 34 mins
***TRIGGER WARNING***
THIS EPISODE DISCUSSES SUICIDE, LISTENER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.
We're taking the plunge, unabashedly tackling a tough subject close to our hearts - suicide. Together, Therapist Kathy Dan Moore and grief coach Jess Lowe, are shedding light on this often misunderstood topic, discussing how to engage in conversations about it, identifying key risk factors, and ensuring the safety of those contemplating it. This episode is not just about spreading awareness, it's about making a real difference as we challenge the language we use when discussing suicide.
Venturing deeper into the discussion, we touch upon the increasing occurrence of teen suicide, discussing the risk factors and prevention guidelines provided by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. We also delve into the connection between alcohol misuse and suicide risk, debunking myths, and providing guidance on handling crisis situations. Together, let's break the stigma surrounding mental health and suicide, and create a society where understanding and empathy are paramount.
**********************
988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline
We can all help prevent suicide. The 988 Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States.Call or Text 988 for support https://988lifeline.org/
The Bridge -Movie https://www.amazon.com/BRIDGE-Eric-Geleynse/dp/B01605UTXQ/ref=tmm_aiv_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1697722733&sr=8-6
**********************
DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace the advice you may be receiving from a licensed therapist.This podcast and website represents the opinions of KathyDan Moore, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Grief Coach Jess Lowe, and their guests to the show and website. The content here should not be taken as medical advice.
The content here is for informational purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions.Views and opinions expressed in the podcast and website are our own. While we make every effort to ensure that the information we are sharing is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors.
Privacy is of utmost importance to us. All people, places, and scenarios mentioned in the podcast have been changed to protect patient confidentiality.This website or podcast should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever, including but not limited to establishing “standard of care” in a legal sense or as a basis for expert witness testimony.
No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast or website.In no way does listening, reading, emailing or interacting on social media with our content establish a doctor-patient relationship.
If you find any errors in any of the content of these podcasts or blogs, please send a message to kdandjess@spillingthetheratea.com.
Podcast Music by: Lemon Music
Have a question for our Asked and Answered Segment? Email Us!
AskUs@spillingthetheratea.com
Follow us on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/spillingthetherateapodcast
Follow us on Facebook!
https://www.facebook.com/Spilling-the-Thera-Tea-103883072393873/
Check out our website!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Spilling the Therity with
therapist Kathy Dan Moore andgrief coach Jess Lowe.
Hey, kathy Dan, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm okay, I'm hanging in there.
I'm limping towards the finishline of this week, I should say.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's all that college party and you did.
I'm telling you what.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I go to FSU for one weekend and party it up with my
daughter, and I'm just done.
For I ended up going to thedoctor yesterday, which I
normally don't do.
But I was, like you know,encouraged by you and by my
husband, and so I was like I goand she goes.
Nope, it's not strep and it'snot COVID.
(00:38):
And then I felt ridiculous forbeing there, but but I do feel
like dog shit.
So yeah.
Well, yeah, and I didn't wantmy clients to get something.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Right.
So at least you know thatyou're not going to pass along
with you have.
Yeah, as I'm hacking.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
When my clients came in this morning I was like I've
already been to the doctor.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I don't have nothing, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm fine.
Disregard.
So now I feel, really does anumber on me.
Is it like the pills or likethe liquid liquid?
And I'm a little bit.
I'm a little bit willy nilly onmeasuring the exact amount,
like, yeah, I just sort of swigit down and I know that is
(01:25):
frowned upon.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I cannot take liquid medication.
It's like my tongueautomatically just goes to the
roof of my mouth.
It's like it's not going outReally Well.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So our kiddo Matt, he I don't know if he still can,
but he, he can't take pills likeany pills, and so he will take
the like children's liquidacetaminophen when he doesn't go
well, I know he's 21.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
My brother was like that when he was little and I
think that he was just faking itbecause my mom, anytime he had
to take a pill, she'd crush itin a spoon with a little spoon
of ice cream on top, yeah, sothat he would take it.
And I'm like he's faking, hejust wants the ice cream.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, how are you doing?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I am good.
Yeah, I'm good, just workingand the weather is cool.
Last time it was like in the50s I made chili for dinner.
I was pretending like it waslike late fall winter.
Yes, well, you tell everybodywhat you did to your eyeball.
Okay, so you don't know my sagalike with my eyes.
We've discussed it and I've hadlower pump build plugs which
(02:42):
are like little stoppers in yourtear ducts to help, like,
recirculate the moisture intoyour eyeballs, cause I have
chronic dry eye and I've hadthose for a couple of months.
They've been great, but mydoctor and I both felt like I
needed a little bit more, so heput the uppers in and it was too
much to the fact that I wascrying for a week and a half,
(03:03):
just just just constant drippingdown my cheeks.
My skin was getting raw.
Like I had a wiping wiping, likewhen somebody and like I'm like
, oh my gosh, I'm going to likerip my skin.
You know doing yeah, it's raw.
I just had enough and.
I got some tweezers, Isterilized them and I ain't the
(03:24):
bad boys out my zone, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
When I got that text message, I was in the middle of
like, first of all, likecoughing, trying to put mascara
on, and I was like, no hard stop, I'm going to need to call you
Like you did not, go in therewith tweezers and rip those
things out.
I did.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Don't tell my eye doctor, I know.
Hopefully your eye doctordoesn't listen.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I don't think he's in our demographic.
No, he's not listening.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But I had to, like I was.
It was just to the point, andnow I'm back to dry, but the
lowers are, I mean they'rehelping.
It's better than nothing.
I'm great these great medicatedeye drops that I got from my
doctor and all the things.
So I'm just going to, you know,be positive.
So I love it.
All right, all right.
(04:09):
Well, let's just go ahead andget started with today's episode
.
We have a lot of information.
I do want to give a triggerwarning before we start the
discussion, but this episodetoday is about suicide, so we're
going to be discussing suicide.
So, listener discretion isadvised.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, we had this on our list for a topic for a long
time and I think we'll take Ipushed it, I pushed it and I
pushed it and then finally I waslike, okay, it's time that we
do this one.
Yeah, yeah, because you knowmany people are afraid to talk
about suicide and they avoid itbecause it's scary, it makes you
(04:48):
feel out of control, you knowof yourself or of someone that
you love, possibly thinking thatthey might do that.
So it's scary for people totalk about, right, and people
are afraid to bring it upbecause they don't want to give
the idea they feel like if theysay, well, are you feeling
suicidal?
That somehow?
But there's power of suggestionin that, but that's just not
(05:11):
true.
So the most powerful way tocombat suicide is to talk about
it openly.
I am really clear with myclients that many people have
entertained the idea of beingsuicidal.
That is not uncommon.
I reassure them that I'm notgoing to hospitalize you if you
tell me that you've had thoughtsof harming yourself, but I do
(05:32):
need to understand what they'reexperiencing so that I can
better help them.
It's important to know if theperson has had any past suicide
attempts.
This is what I'm looking at,when I'm sussing out the
seriousness of it and, with thatsaid, we always take it
seriously.
Period hard stop.
But do they have a plan right?
(05:54):
And then what's the probabilityof completing the suicide?
So, for example, if they'rethinking of using a gun in what
they've thought about doing, dothey have access to a firearm?
Or if they're thinking ofjumping off a bridge, do they
have access to the Skyway Bridgelike we have here?
So then we start talking aboutwhat the preventative factors
are that are keeping them fromattempting.
(06:16):
So I'm on a safety plan in here, so could they not imagine
doing it because of theirchildren or their pets?
That gives me a good place tostart working with them to keep
them safe.
So I tell family members also.
I mean, I was thinking aboutthis.
I've probably talked aboutsuicide in four sessions this
week, if that kind of gives youan idea.
(06:39):
And I did not see as many peoplethis week because I was sick,
so that was about a third.
So it's so much more commonthan we think is one of the main
things I want people to know.
So I tell family members toplease speak to their loved ones
about how they're feeling andencourage them to seek outside
help and be direct in theconversation.
(07:00):
Let's not beat around the bushon this.
Suicide is so stigmatized andit's just really difficult to
talk about.
So because of that, peopleskirt around the issue or even
unintentionally steer victims ofsuicidal thoughts towards
reassuring answers.
So that might look like I meanyou won't do anything, though,
(07:21):
right.
So the person's like right,you've just steered them towards
saying yeah, I won't doanything.
So a better way to say that isare you having suicidal thoughts
?
Just asking openly.
Depending on the age of theclient, I'll say things like do
you fantasize about going tosleep and not waking back up?
(07:42):
If it's a client I have areally good rapport with and
I've known for a long time, Imight say are you thinking that
waking up on the other side ofthe dirt would be better?
I am not in any way, shape orform making light of the topic.
But I think by just saying thisis just something people
experience, it doesn't meanthey're going to do it and let's
(08:03):
just talk about it openly.
That keeps people safe.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, and I also think you know like we talk
about like trying to break thestigma surrounding, like mental
health and all the things, and Ifeel like if we are more open
about all the things in life,this topic won't feel so
daunting to talk about.
You know, yes, it's an easierconversation to have with your
(08:26):
loved ones.
So we do want to share with youa change in how we talk about
suicide now.
It used to be what we refer tosomeone committing suicide, but
now we say died by suicide, andthat's really important.
You know, changing the way wespeak.
We remove the culvability fromthe person who has lost their
life.
So when we lose someone tosuicide, it's common to ask how
(08:50):
could they do this?
And that question.
I remember growing up when youwould hear of someone that you
know.
Then they would say committedsuicide.
Everyone would talk about likethe selfishness of it because
they were unaware of what wasreally going on eternally with
that person.
(09:11):
Yeah, you know, and that's justnot right.
Yeah, but this is really loadedwith crucial misunderstandings
about suicide and, in some cases, mental illness.
So asking how someone could dothis puts responsibility on the
dictum, just as the phrasecommitted suicide suggests
almost criminal intent.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, that's an important differentiation to
kind of pay attention to.
It's a hard switch in yourvernacular.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
We're used to saying it the other way, but being
mindful about that, I do think,is really important, yes, so
this is why mental healthadvocates usually employ the
term died by suicide, as itremoves that culability from the
person who lost their life andallows a discussion of the
disease or disorder from whichthey were suffering.
And suicide is rarely caused byone single factor.
(09:59):
According to the Center forDisease Control, the CDC
researchers have found that 54%of people who died by suicide
were not known to have a mentalillness diagnosis.
So, while many cases are linkedto mental illness, other issues
like relationship and financialstress and substance abuse do
contribute to rising rates ofsuicide.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Right.
So in the moment, what seemsirrational to someone can feel
completely rational and it'shard for us to understand, if
you're not in that state, howsomebody else would be feeling
that.
In interviewing people who'vesurvived suicide, what has
become apparent is that suicide,in the moment that they are
(10:44):
attempting, seems to be a verylogical solution to their
problems.
So most often their problem isfeeling profoundly unworthy,
profoundly depressed, burdensometo others.
So what seems irrational fromthe outside in their mind is, in
that moment, completelyrational.
And this thought of being aburden is a reoccurring theme
(11:05):
that comes up again and again.
So Dr Rebecca Bernard she's aSuicideologist and the Director
and Founder of the SuicidePrevention Research Lab at
Stanford School of Medicinereports that research suggests
that people at greatest risk forsuicide may perceive themselves
to be a burden or feel a lackof belongingness.
(11:27):
Even if this may be a harmfulmisperception, and when we're
grieving this kind of death, itcauses people to have so many
questions.
When a celebrity dies by suicide, I think of when different
celebrities we've lost KateSpade popped into my mind.
Thinking about it, perfectstrangers try to put together
(11:49):
the puzzle pieces of whathappened, of what they missed,
of why we had no idea of theirpossible struggles when it seems
like they have it all.
But if someone you did know hasdied by suicide caused by a
mental illness and you'relooking for a way to understand
it.
I really like Dr Lemke'sanalogy.
(12:09):
So she says we talk about deathwith cancer and heart disease,
but not death when associatedwith mental illness.
But some people do die from it.
Suicide is like a massive heartattack of the brain and I just
I like the way that reframes it.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And again it's just going to be something that
talking openly with others aboutis going to break down that
wall, because it is.
You know, it's been seen astaboo, a taboo topic for so long
.
But not every depressed persondevelops suicidal thoughts and
not every person who dies bysuicide is depressed.
(12:50):
Not everyone who has suicidalthoughts will act on them.
There's a lot of people whohave suicidal thoughts.
Most won't Right.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Right, that's the thing If we talk about this more
, we realize how many peoplehave the thoughts Most won't
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
There isn't one answer for why some people are
more at risk than others either.
Suicide is a complex outcome ofmental illness and a diverse
set of risk factors.
It is a symptom of depressionand suicidal behaviors that
exist on a continuum of risk soranging in severity from
suicidal thoughts to attempts todeath by suicide.
Only a small fraction of thosewith depression will go on to
(13:29):
death, to die by suicide.
Just as a depressed person maynever become suicidal, a person
who's never been depressed canbecome suicidal seemingly out of
the blue, but there is almostalways some form of working up
to the act.
Sometimes a loved one candetect and intervene,
(13:49):
successfully or not, butsometimes they can't.
Some of the working up to it canlook like talking about it with
someone, and that person willlater recall them saying
something odd.
Some suicidal people do a sortof rehearsal.
They may not even be planningsuicide, but if they're playing
(14:09):
around with the idea, maybe ifthey have a gun they'll take it
out and load it and then unloadit and put it away.
Or in the case of overdosers,they'll take out pills and count
them.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So these behaviors signal a heightened risk, right,
and these are all things thatyou really want to assess for,
if possible.
Again, we said some of it'shindsight you know and you
didn't see it or know it washappening.
But if you do know someonewho's at risk, get specific,
like I said before, with yourquestions.
Now, this doesn't mean thatsurvivors of loved ones who died
(14:43):
by suicide missed warning signs, because you can't miss signs
if you don't know they're there.
And certain suicidal behaviorscan only be appropriately picked
up by trained professionals,especially in the case of those
mentally rehearsing orvisualizing symptoms that can
occur without the person's fullawareness that this is indeed
kind of suicidal thinking.
(15:04):
So I mean, we're not, you know,thought readers.
You can't see inside somebodyelse's head, Right?
And also millions of Americanshave depression and don't have
suicidal thoughts.
So it can be really difficultto decipher who's at risk and
who's not at risk, and I justwant to be really reinforce that
(15:25):
idea, because I don't wantpeople who have lost someone to
suicide to feel that they haveany responsibility for having
missed signs.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Right, yeah, that's tough.
I just know, like personally,like in my life, I've lost a
couple of friends who did die bysuicide when I was in high
school, and then one shortlyafter we graduated.
Two totally differentexperiences.
One you would have never known,you know, it was one of those
(15:59):
puts on a brave face, life ofthe party.
You know great, you know allthe things.
And then the other I feel now alittle like man.
We should have seen this comingMore like relationship.
A girlfriend would break upwith them and then they would
just be.
I can't go on and you justthink, oh, that's just a
(16:21):
hormonal young adult, you know,trying to get the trying to get
the partner back type thing.
And now, knowing what I knownow, those were like cries for
help on that end, you know.
So it's tough.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
It is really hard.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It really is, but we do want to talk about, like, the
risk of children dying bysuicide.
The overall risk that a childwould hurt him or herself is
small, but it is certainlypossible for a child or teen to
experience suicidal thoughts or,sadly, to die by suicide.
While the risk tends to behighest during the teen years,
(17:00):
children as young as five havebeen known to think about or die
by suicide.
It's social media for me popsup now a lot more.
You're seeing it a lot moreI've seen it.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I've had families that I've done family work with
where as young as five and six,you know, and they're saying
things like see these scissors,I could use these scissors to
die, you know.
So, yes, and they're alludingto and it's so scary for the
parents.
Oh yeah, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Parents, you know, can help by learning to
recognize some common warningsides of suicidality, like
sudden changes in their mood,frequent talk about going away
or dying, or risky impulsivebehaviors which you've just kind
of mentioned here.
But seeking mental health carefor children who may be at risk
(17:56):
and fostering an environmentwhere children feel safe,
talking about their emotions andtheir challenges is really
important.
And if you're unsure if that'swhat's going on, take them to
see somebody, because I mean, ifthat's not great, but if it is,
you're getting them the help.
You know so.
(18:17):
And then also coping afterlosing someone to suicide.
Losing a loved one to suicidetriggers deep, complicated grief
.
So, in addition to the pain ofthe loss itself, individuals who
survive a loved one's suicideoften grapple with confusing
feelings of shame, anger, guilt,despair or relief.
(18:38):
In some cases, learning aboutor discovering the death may be
traumatizing and that's hard.
Like I said, you know, lookingback now I do have a little bit
of, I have a little bit of guiltfor a long time of not why
didn't I recognize that whatthey were saying was a cry for
(18:59):
help, you know, while it'stempting to isolate yourself and
shoulder your grief alone,seeking help from others,
whether it's your own family andfriends.
A trained mental healthprofessional and or a support
group is often the surest pathtowards healing that the pain of
the loss will never go away.
Many suicides survivors findthat with time they come to
(19:21):
recognize that their loved one'sdeath was not their fault and
are able to find meaning andpurpose in life again.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah.
So in talking a little bitabout surviving a suicide
attempt, the vast majoritymajority, I can't say that word
majority of attempted suicidesare non-fatal.
So many who survive a suicideattempt feel great relief and
may even come to approach theirlife with a newfound hopefulness
afterward.
(19:47):
However, many survivorscontinue to struggle afterward
with mental health challengesand may continue to be a risk of
future attempts on their ownlife.
So it's critical that anyonewho's attempted suicide seek
mental health care and turn totheir loved ones for needed
support because they can go onto live a happy, fulfilling life
(20:08):
.
There is a really gooddocumentary.
It might be called Bridge.
I'm trying to remember what itwas called, I'm gonna look it up
and I think I was maybe in gradschool when I watched it and
they put a camera out in SanFrancisco focused on the Golden
Gate.
Bridge, the Bridge, okay, andthey did interview some people
(20:32):
who survived the jump and,resoundingly, people talk about
regretting it in the lastmoments.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, I've seen that that's a really.
Yeah, it's a really like it's agreat it's tough but it's good,
but it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah.
So and then I wanna talk alittle bit about suicide
contagion.
I don't know how many people arefamiliar with that term, but
it's an increase in suicideattempts and completed suicides
following exposure to a suicidein the media or one's personal
circle.
So the suicide of a prominentcelebrity or a member of a
(21:07):
specific community, such as themilitary or an elementary school
, have been shown to correlatewith a rise in suicides.
So although many studies havereported this correlation, they
can't conclude that exposurecaused the elevated rates.
So those who are especiallysusceptible to suicide contagion
, also referred to as copycatsuicide, include adolescents,
(21:32):
people who already struggle withsuicidal thoughts and people
with mental health conditionslike depression, bipolar PTSD.
The phenomenon may occur inpart due to the tendency to
learn from important or relevantfigures and because the idea
may become more prominent inone's mind right Once you see it
, it feels real and you can walkyourself through it.
(21:55):
But suicide contagion can becurbed.
The American Foundation forSuicide Prevention issued media
guidelines that manypublications have adopted, such
as not detailing the method usedin the suicides, not suggesting
that a death was due to asimple reason or it achieved a
goal such as fame or revenge,and, perhaps most importantly,
(22:18):
listing resources to help thosewho may be struggling.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
And then also connection of alcohol to suicide
.
So when struggling withsuicidal thoughts and tendencies
, it's common to want to escapethe pain or feeling inside.
This is why many individualsoften turn to risky behaviors,
including drugs and alcohol.
Alcohol can worsen feelings ofdepression and loneliness and
often worsens the experience,and alcohol misuse is
(22:46):
significantly associated withthe risk of death by suicide.
So much so that alcohol misuseis associated with a 94%
increase in the risk of death bysuicide.
That's big.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all.
I mean, it takes away yourinhibitions, right?
So you're having these feelingsthat you're wanting to do this.
You're profoundly depressed.
This alcohol is making you moredepressed and it's like taking
away your inhibitions.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, one plus one equals two.
On that yeah research foundthat a higher frequency and
quantity of alcohol consumedplays a major role in death by
suicide.
The more heavily inhibituallysomeone drinks, the more
vulnerable they are to theserisks.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, so, and there's also an increased connection of
teens to suicide.
There's been a lot of pressabout the rise in suicides among
teens over the past few years.
First data point to note isthat the suicide rate is much
higher for males than females,so, and I think that's been that
way for a long time.
So it's often reported thatfemales attempt suicide more
(23:50):
often than males, but theirmethods are less deadly and are
reversed by treatment.
And I don't have the statisticin front of me, but I do think
that men tend to use firearms,whereas women tend to use
prescription medication.
So when suicide attempt doesnot lead to death, however, it's
hard to know if it was anactual attempt or just a call
(24:10):
for help.
So suicide is the third leadingcause of death of young people
between the ages of 15 and 24.
So 5,000 young people completesuicide in the US each year, and
each year there's approximately10 youth suicides for every
100,000 youth.
(24:31):
So each day there'sapproximately 12 youth suicides.
That's just sad, I mean it'stragic.
So and then there are a lot ofmyths about suicide.
So one is the mistaken beliefthat talking about it to a
person in danger encourages theact, and I referenced that a
little bit earlier.
If a loved one expressesthoughts or plans of suicide, it
(24:54):
is essential, people, essentialto initiate a conversation, not
in the way of saying you're notgonna do it right.
It's essential.
So it's wise to approach thediscussion by identifying
concrete resources, such as atherapist or suicide prevention
hotline, and to conclude theconversation with a stated
commitment to follow up with theperson over time.
(25:17):
So you wanna be really direct.
How are you coping with yourchallenges?
Are you thinking about hurtingyourself?
Are you thinking about dying?
Are you thinking about suicide?
Have you come up with a planfor taking your own life?
Like if you can't remember theones that I just said and you're
afraid that you know somebodywho's possibly talking about
(25:39):
suicide or thinking aboutsuicide?
Google five questions, writethem down, go in and ask them
straight.
You know, yeah, straightforward manner.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, and you know where someone is contemplating
suicide.
How can they get help?
So anyone who's experiencingpersistent suicidal thoughts or
behaviors should seek help assoon as possible.
During a crisis, the bestresources are usually suicide
hotlines, which I will belinking the US national suicide
hotline number in our show notes.
(26:09):
So suicide hotlines are staffedby people who are trained to
both talk someone through animmediate crisis and connect
them with additional help intheir areas, such as crisis
centers or local authorities.
Beyond that, seeking the helpof a trained mental health
professional is the best way toward off future crisis and
(26:30):
sustain well-being over time.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And telehealth is really.
You know, I'm not a hugetelehealth person just because I
love having people in my officeand I love that rapport that
you get.
But listen, telehealth one ofthe amazing things about it is
that it can be such a tool touse, because you can get in
quickly and it has a you know, acost variable that can work for
(26:58):
a lot of people.
So you know, that's a greattool out there right now too.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then you know also, ifyou're experiencing a crisis and
it's late at night, it's inlike that emergency room.
You know that's another optionas well.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So and now I believe they that 988 is the number.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, that is the number, so I'm going to link
that.
You can call that number.
You can text that number.
They have a website.
It's open 24 hours a day soit's always accessible to read
someone.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
On the other end of the phone there's a really good
podcast episode on armchairexpert with our surgeon general
Vivek Morphy.
I believe, is how you pronouncehis name, and he's talking about
the initiative of, ofloneliness and his six different
points on what to do with thisepidemic of loneliness and that
(27:56):
kind of rolls into theconversation of suicide,
suicidality, and so I do feel alot of hope that this is
starting to be something that'smore on the radar, that human
connection, and is so importantfor our mental and physical
health that the surgeon generalis now taking a charge and
(28:18):
putting a lot of focus on that.
So that makes me feel hopeful.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, me too, and you know, just check on your loved
ones.
We don't know what others aregoing through on a day to day
basis.
We're so wrapped up in whatwe've got going on that
sometimes we don't see outsideof our tunnel vision, you know,
and so it's just reallyimportant to make sure that
you're checking in with othersand you know, and by doing that,
maybe these conversations willget easier as we go on.
(28:44):
So, yeah, Okay, well, speakingof, we do have an answer that
talks a little bit about deathas well.
So this is from anonymous.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
We're just going to keep it on a low note.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
We're just going to keep it on a low note.
Yeah so, it says from anonymous.
I have recently had a few lovedones pass and I'm struggling
with anxiety of my own mortality.
Any advice on how not to beoverwhelmed by the thought of
dying?
Yeah so.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I should read these before we get on air.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
If you'd like me to start.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Well, I just yes, I would like you to start.
Okay, you start, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
So it's.
You know it's.
It's a difficult understandableto have anxiety around death,
especially like when you'refacing it head on with so many
people that are close to you.
That's all happened at the sametime.
You know it's inevitable.
The skill is to not let deathanxiety hinder our way of life.
But for some it's actually arecognized mental health
(29:48):
disorder and it's called I'mgoing to say this wrong because
I say all the long words wrong,but it's called thinotophobia.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I don't even know that one.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
So it's considered a phobia if the fear arises
virtually every time you thinkabout death or death of a loved
one, so it's the fear thatpersists for more than six
months or it's the fear thatprevents you from functioning
every day.
So if you're having that typeof anxiety, any consultant
mental health professionalthat's going to be the number
one thing.
(30:22):
I know that when I had a coupleof family members pass, it does
make you kind of think aboutyour own mortality and realize,
like, the importance of the lifethat you have and what you have
moving forward.
So I think it's important tofocus on what the positives that
you have in your life and Ifeel like that can also help
(30:45):
curb those constant thoughts ofthe anxiety of dying per se.
But if it's a constant thought,like I said, and you're
constantly having those, thenthat's when I would consult a
mental health counselor and theycan help guide you that way?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, because if you're having anxiety around it
and you are perseverating orruminating about it, then talk
to a therapist, because theycould, as I always say, do some
EMDR around what it might betriggering for you that you're
not even aware of.
So that's possible.
If it's around a fear of dyinga specific way, then I'd be
(31:25):
wondering about exposure therapy.
So is it something specificthat you're afraid?
Is it being trapped in smallspaces?
Is it?
Do you know what I mean?
It depends on what that lookslike.
And then kind of what you weresaying, focusing on the positive
start structuring your day sothat you feel like you're really
(31:45):
putting an emphasis on healthand wellness, so that you feel
like you have some level andmeasure of control over that
Right Like, are you doing amorning routine?
Are you drinking hot lemonwater which I just added, which
my voice I know does not seemlike, but it is quite nice Are
you exercising to maintain goodhealth?
So then at least you're puttinga little bit of that control
(32:07):
back into your hands to say I'mdoing the best I can.
And then what you were sayingwith the positive thinking as
long as you're going.
I'm really grateful for this andI'm thankful for this.
You know, naming one or twothings, either by writing it
down or saying it in your ownhead each morning, gives you
more of a positive outlook foryour day.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And then also hard.
It is hard and when you say,like struggling with anxiety and
my immortality, are you worriedthat you're not going to
accomplish things that you wantto accomplish before you pass.
So that's also a thing as faras, like, make a list of what
you want to accomplish, yourbucket list of things, and go
out there and do them.
You know right.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So don't put things off.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Do them now.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I hopeit helps.
I know it's a sticky, it's asticky situation and but yeah,
if you're having those constantthoughts, definitely reach out
to mental health providerbecause they can definitely help
you.
Yeah, all right.
Well, thank you to ourlisteners for joining us today.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
(33:08):
review on Apple podcasts.
This will help us move up thechart and be more accessible to
new listeners.
You can also follow us onInstagram and Facebook, which is
which are in the links below.
If you have a question for usand answered, segment, email us
at ask us atspellingatheraitycom.
Don't forget to check out ourwebsite, which is also linked
below.
We'll continue to add resourcesand information there as well.
(33:30):
I hope everyone has a greatweekend, stay safe.
We're your hosts, kathy Danmoreand Jess Lowe.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And join us next time where we'll be discussing
emotionally unavailable people.
We'll be breaking it down onesip at a time.
Welcome back to Spilling the Therity with
therapist Kathy Dan Moore andgrief coach Jess Lowe.
Hey, kathy Dan, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm okay, I'm hanging in there.
I'm limping towards the finishline of this week, I should say.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's all that college party and you did.
I'm telling you what.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I go to FSU for one weekend and party it up with my
daughter, and I'm just done.
For I ended up going to thedoctor yesterday, which I
normally don't do.
But I was, like you know,encouraged by you and by my
husband, and so I was like I goand she goes.
Nope, it's not strep and it'snot COVID.
(00:38):
And then I felt ridiculous forbeing there, but but I do feel
like dog shit.
So yeah.
Well, yeah, and I didn't wantmy clients to get something.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Right.
So at least you know thatyou're not going to pass along
with you have.
Yeah, as I'm hacking.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
When my clients came in this morning I was like I've
already been to the doctor.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I don't have nothing, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm fine.
Disregard.
So now I feel, really does anumber on me.
Is it like the pills or likethe liquid liquid?
And I'm a little bit.
I'm a little bit willy nilly onmeasuring the exact amount,
like, yeah, I just sort of swigit down and I know that is
(01:25):
frowned upon.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I cannot take liquid medication.
It's like my tongueautomatically just goes to the
roof of my mouth.
It's like it's not going outReally Well.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So our kiddo Matt, he I don't know if he still can,
but he, he can't take pills likeany pills, and so he will take
the like children's liquidacetaminophen when he doesn't go
well, I know he's 21.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
My brother was like that when he was little and I
think that he was just faking itbecause my mom, anytime he had
to take a pill, she'd crush itin a spoon with a little spoon
of ice cream on top, yeah, sothat he would take it.
And I'm like he's faking, hejust wants the ice cream.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, how are you doing?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I am good.
Yeah, I'm good, just workingand the weather is cool.
Last time it was like in the50s I made chili for dinner.
I was pretending like it waslike late fall winter.
Yes, well, you tell everybodywhat you did to your eyeball.
Okay, so you don't know my sagalike with my eyes.
We've discussed it and I've hadlower pump build plugs which
(02:42):
are like little stoppers in yourtear ducts to help, like,
recirculate the moisture intoyour eyeballs, cause I have
chronic dry eye and I've hadthose for a couple of months.
They've been great, but mydoctor and I both felt like I
needed a little bit more, so heput the uppers in and it was too
much to the fact that I wascrying for a week and a half,
(03:03):
just just just constant drippingdown my cheeks.
My skin was getting raw.
Like I had a wiping wiping, likewhen somebody and like I'm like
, oh my gosh, I'm going to likerip my skin.
You know doing yeah, it's raw.
I just had enough and.
I got some tweezers, Isterilized them and I ain't the
(03:24):
bad boys out my zone, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
When I got that text message, I was in the middle of
like, first of all, likecoughing, trying to put mascara
on, and I was like, no hard stop, I'm going to need to call you
Like you did not, go in therewith tweezers and rip those
things out.
I did.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Don't tell my eye doctor, I know.
Hopefully your eye doctordoesn't listen.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I don't think he's in our demographic.
No, he's not listening.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But I had to, like I was.
It was just to the point, andnow I'm back to dry, but the
lowers are, I mean they'rehelping.
It's better than nothing.
I'm great these great medicatedeye drops that I got from my
doctor and all the things.
So I'm just going to, you know,be positive.
So I love it.
All right, all right.
(04:09):
Well, let's just go ahead andget started with today's episode
.
We have a lot of information.
I do want to give a triggerwarning before we start the
discussion, but this episodetoday is about suicide, so we're
going to be discussing suicide.
So, listener discretion isadvised.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, we had this on our list for a topic for a long
time and I think we'll take Ipushed it, I pushed it and I
pushed it and then finally I waslike, okay, it's time that we
do this one.
Yeah, yeah, because you knowmany people are afraid to talk
about suicide and they avoid itbecause it's scary, it makes you
(04:48):
feel out of control, you knowof yourself or of someone that
you love, possibly thinking thatthey might do that.
So it's scary for people totalk about, right, and people
are afraid to bring it upbecause they don't want to give
the idea they feel like if theysay, well, are you feeling
suicidal?
That somehow?
But there's power of suggestionin that, but that's just not
(05:11):
true.
So the most powerful way tocombat suicide is to talk about
it openly.
I am really clear with myclients that many people have
entertained the idea of beingsuicidal.
That is not uncommon.
I reassure them that I'm notgoing to hospitalize you if you
tell me that you've had thoughtsof harming yourself, but I do
(05:32):
need to understand what they'reexperiencing so that I can
better help them.
It's important to know if theperson has had any past suicide
attempts.
This is what I'm looking at,when I'm sussing out the
seriousness of it and, with thatsaid, we always take it
seriously.
Period hard stop.
But do they have a plan right?
(05:54):
And then what's the probabilityof completing the suicide?
So, for example, if they'rethinking of using a gun in what
they've thought about doing, dothey have access to a firearm?
Or if they're thinking ofjumping off a bridge, do they
have access to the Skyway Bridgelike we have here?
So then we start talking aboutwhat the preventative factors
are that are keeping them fromattempting.
(06:16):
So I'm on a safety plan in here, so could they not imagine
doing it because of theirchildren or their pets?
That gives me a good place tostart working with them to keep
them safe.
So I tell family members also.
I mean, I was thinking aboutthis.
I've probably talked aboutsuicide in four sessions this
week, if that kind of gives youan idea.
(06:39):
And I did not see as many peoplethis week because I was sick,
so that was about a third.
So it's so much more commonthan we think is one of the main
things I want people to know.
So I tell family members toplease speak to their loved ones
about how they're feeling andencourage them to seek outside
help and be direct in theconversation.
(07:00):
Let's not beat around the bushon this.
Suicide is so stigmatized andit's just really difficult to
talk about.
So because of that, peopleskirt around the issue or even
unintentionally steer victims ofsuicidal thoughts towards
reassuring answers.
So that might look like I meanyou won't do anything, though,
(07:21):
right.
So the person's like right,you've just steered them towards
saying yeah, I won't doanything.
So a better way to say that isare you having suicidal thoughts
?
Just asking openly.
Depending on the age of theclient, I'll say things like do
you fantasize about going tosleep and not waking back up?
(07:42):
If it's a client I have areally good rapport with and
I've known for a long time, Imight say are you thinking that
waking up on the other side ofthe dirt would be better?
I am not in any way, shape orform making light of the topic.
But I think by just saying thisis just something people
experience, it doesn't meanthey're going to do it and let's
(08:03):
just talk about it openly.
That keeps people safe.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, and I also think you know like we talk
about like trying to break thestigma surrounding, like mental
health and all the things, and Ifeel like if we are more open
about all the things in life,this topic won't feel so
daunting to talk about.
You know, yes, it's an easierconversation to have with your
(08:26):
loved ones.
So we do want to share with youa change in how we talk about
suicide now.
It used to be what we refer tosomeone committing suicide, but
now we say died by suicide, andthat's really important.
You know, changing the way wespeak.
We remove the culvability fromthe person who has lost their
life.
So when we lose someone tosuicide, it's common to ask how
(08:50):
could they do this?
And that question.
I remember growing up when youwould hear of someone that you
know.
Then they would say committedsuicide.
Everyone would talk about likethe selfishness of it because
they were unaware of what wasreally going on eternally with
that person.
(09:11):
Yeah, you know, and that's justnot right.
Yeah, but this is really loadedwith crucial misunderstandings
about suicide and, in some cases, mental illness.
So asking how someone could dothis puts responsibility on the
dictum, just as the phrasecommitted suicide suggests
almost criminal intent.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, that's an important differentiation to
kind of pay attention to.
It's a hard switch in yourvernacular.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
We're used to saying it the other way, but being
mindful about that, I do think,is really important, yes, so
this is why mental healthadvocates usually employ the
term died by suicide, as itremoves that culability from the
person who lost their life andallows a discussion of the
disease or disorder from whichthey were suffering.
And suicide is rarely caused byone single factor.
(09:59):
According to the Center forDisease Control, the CDC
researchers have found that 54%of people who died by suicide
were not known to have a mentalillness diagnosis.
So, while many cases are linkedto mental illness, other issues
like relationship and financialstress and substance abuse do
contribute to rising rates ofsuicide.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Right.
So in the moment, what seemsirrational to someone can feel
completely rational and it'shard for us to understand, if
you're not in that state, howsomebody else would be feeling
that.
In interviewing people who'vesurvived suicide, what has
become apparent is that suicide,in the moment that they are
(10:44):
attempting, seems to be a verylogical solution to their
problems.
So most often their problem isfeeling profoundly unworthy,
profoundly depressed, burdensometo others.
So what seems irrational fromthe outside in their mind is, in
that moment, completelyrational.
And this thought of being aburden is a reoccurring theme
(11:05):
that comes up again and again.
So Dr Rebecca Bernard she's aSuicideologist and the Director
and Founder of the SuicidePrevention Research Lab at
Stanford School of Medicinereports that research suggests
that people at greatest risk forsuicide may perceive themselves
to be a burden or feel a lackof belongingness.
(11:27):
Even if this may be a harmfulmisperception, and when we're
grieving this kind of death, itcauses people to have so many
questions.
When a celebrity dies by suicide, I think of when different
celebrities we've lost KateSpade popped into my mind.
Thinking about it, perfectstrangers try to put together
(11:49):
the puzzle pieces of whathappened, of what they missed,
of why we had no idea of theirpossible struggles when it seems
like they have it all.
But if someone you did know hasdied by suicide caused by a
mental illness and you'relooking for a way to understand
it.
I really like Dr Lemke'sanalogy.
(12:09):
So she says we talk about deathwith cancer and heart disease,
but not death when associatedwith mental illness.
But some people do die from it.
Suicide is like a massive heartattack of the brain and I just
I like the way that reframes it.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And again it's just going to be something that
talking openly with others aboutis going to break down that
wall, because it is.
You know, it's been seen astaboo, a taboo topic for so long
.
But not every depressed persondevelops suicidal thoughts and
not every person who dies bysuicide is depressed.
(12:50):
Not everyone who has suicidalthoughts will act on them.
There's a lot of people whohave suicidal thoughts.
Most won't Right.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Right, that's the thing If we talk about this more
, we realize how many peoplehave the thoughts Most won't
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
There isn't one answer for why some people are
more at risk than others either.
Suicide is a complex outcome ofmental illness and a diverse
set of risk factors.
It is a symptom of depressionand suicidal behaviors that
exist on a continuum of risk soranging in severity from
suicidal thoughts to attempts todeath by suicide.
Only a small fraction of thosewith depression will go on to
(13:29):
death, to die by suicide.
Just as a depressed person maynever become suicidal, a person
who's never been depressed canbecome suicidal seemingly out of
the blue, but there is almostalways some form of working up
to the act.
Sometimes a loved one candetect and intervene,
(13:49):
successfully or not, butsometimes they can't.
Some of the working up to it canlook like talking about it with
someone, and that person willlater recall them saying
something odd.
Some suicidal people do a sortof rehearsal.
They may not even be planningsuicide, but if they're playing
(14:09):
around with the idea, maybe ifthey have a gun they'll take it
out and load it and then unloadit and put it away.
Or in the case of overdosers,they'll take out pills and count
them.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So these behaviors signal a heightened risk, right,
and these are all things thatyou really want to assess for,
if possible.
Again, we said some of it'shindsight you know and you
didn't see it or know it washappening.
But if you do know someonewho's at risk, get specific,
like I said before, with yourquestions.
Now, this doesn't mean thatsurvivors of loved ones who died
(14:43):
by suicide missed warning signs, because you can't miss signs
if you don't know they're there.
And certain suicidal behaviorscan only be appropriately picked
up by trained professionals,especially in the case of those
mentally rehearsing orvisualizing symptoms that can
occur without the person's fullawareness that this is indeed
kind of suicidal thinking.
(15:04):
So I mean, we're not, you know,thought readers.
You can't see inside somebodyelse's head, Right?
And also millions of Americanshave depression and don't have
suicidal thoughts.
So it can be really difficultto decipher who's at risk and
who's not at risk, and I justwant to be really reinforce that
(15:25):
idea, because I don't wantpeople who have lost someone to
suicide to feel that they haveany responsibility for having
missed signs.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Right, yeah, that's tough.
I just know, like personally,like in my life, I've lost a
couple of friends who did die bysuicide when I was in high
school, and then one shortlyafter we graduated.
Two totally differentexperiences.
One you would have never known,you know, it was one of those
(15:59):
puts on a brave face, life ofthe party.
You know great, you know allthe things.
And then the other I feel now alittle like man.
We should have seen this comingMore like relationship.
A girlfriend would break upwith them and then they would
just be.
I can't go on and you justthink, oh, that's just a
(16:21):
hormonal young adult, you know,trying to get the trying to get
the partner back type thing.
And now, knowing what I knownow, those were like cries for
help on that end, you know.
So it's tough.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
It is really hard.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It really is, but we do want to talk about, like, the
risk of children dying bysuicide.
The overall risk that a childwould hurt him or herself is
small, but it is certainlypossible for a child or teen to
experience suicidal thoughts or,sadly, to die by suicide.
While the risk tends to behighest during the teen years,
(17:00):
children as young as five havebeen known to think about or die
by suicide.
It's social media for me popsup now a lot more.
You're seeing it a lot moreI've seen it.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I've had families that I've done family work with
where as young as five and six,you know, and they're saying
things like see these scissors,I could use these scissors to
die, you know.
So, yes, and they're alludingto and it's so scary for the
parents.
Oh yeah, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Parents, you know, can help by learning to
recognize some common warningsides of suicidality, like
sudden changes in their mood,frequent talk about going away
or dying, or risky impulsivebehaviors which you've just kind
of mentioned here.
But seeking mental health carefor children who may be at risk
(17:56):
and fostering an environmentwhere children feel safe,
talking about their emotions andtheir challenges is really
important.
And if you're unsure if that'swhat's going on, take them to
see somebody, because I mean, ifthat's not great, but if it is,
you're getting them the help.
You know so.
(18:17):
And then also coping afterlosing someone to suicide.
Losing a loved one to suicidetriggers deep, complicated grief
.
So, in addition to the pain ofthe loss itself, individuals who
survive a loved one's suicideoften grapple with confusing
feelings of shame, anger, guilt,despair or relief.
(18:38):
In some cases, learning aboutor discovering the death may be
traumatizing and that's hard.
Like I said, you know, lookingback now I do have a little bit
of, I have a little bit of guiltfor a long time of not why
didn't I recognize that whatthey were saying was a cry for
(18:59):
help, you know, while it'stempting to isolate yourself and
shoulder your grief alone,seeking help from others,
whether it's your own family andfriends.
A trained mental healthprofessional and or a support
group is often the surest pathtowards healing that the pain of
the loss will never go away.
Many suicides survivors findthat with time they come to
(19:21):
recognize that their loved one'sdeath was not their fault and
are able to find meaning andpurpose in life again.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah.
So in talking a little bitabout surviving a suicide
attempt, the vast majoritymajority, I can't say that word
majority of attempted suicidesare non-fatal.
So many who survive a suicideattempt feel great relief and
may even come to approach theirlife with a newfound hopefulness
afterward.
(19:47):
However, many survivorscontinue to struggle afterward
with mental health challengesand may continue to be a risk of
future attempts on their ownlife.
So it's critical that anyonewho's attempted suicide seek
mental health care and turn totheir loved ones for needed
support because they can go onto live a happy, fulfilling life
(20:08):
.
There is a really gooddocumentary.
It might be called Bridge.
I'm trying to remember what itwas called, I'm gonna look it up
and I think I was maybe in gradschool when I watched it and
they put a camera out in SanFrancisco focused on the Golden
Gate.
Bridge, the Bridge, okay, andthey did interview some people
(20:32):
who survived the jump and,resoundingly, people talk about
regretting it in the lastmoments.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, I've seen that that's a really.
Yeah, it's a really like it's agreat it's tough but it's good,
but it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah.
So and then I wanna talk alittle bit about suicide
contagion.
I don't know how many people arefamiliar with that term, but
it's an increase in suicideattempts and completed suicides
following exposure to a suicidein the media or one's personal
circle.
So the suicide of a prominentcelebrity or a member of a
(21:07):
specific community, such as themilitary or an elementary school
, have been shown to correlatewith a rise in suicides.
So although many studies havereported this correlation, they
can't conclude that exposurecaused the elevated rates.
So those who are especiallysusceptible to suicide contagion
, also referred to as copycatsuicide, include adolescents,
(21:32):
people who already struggle withsuicidal thoughts and people
with mental health conditionslike depression, bipolar PTSD.
The phenomenon may occur inpart due to the tendency to
learn from important or relevantfigures and because the idea
may become more prominent inone's mind right Once you see it
, it feels real and you can walkyourself through it.
(21:55):
But suicide contagion can becurbed.
The American Foundation forSuicide Prevention issued media
guidelines that manypublications have adopted, such
as not detailing the method usedin the suicides, not suggesting
that a death was due to asimple reason or it achieved a
goal such as fame or revenge,and, perhaps most importantly,
(22:18):
listing resources to help thosewho may be struggling.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
And then also connection of alcohol to suicide
.
So when struggling withsuicidal thoughts and tendencies
, it's common to want to escapethe pain or feeling inside.
This is why many individualsoften turn to risky behaviors,
including drugs and alcohol.
Alcohol can worsen feelings ofdepression and loneliness and
often worsens the experience,and alcohol misuse is
(22:46):
significantly associated withthe risk of death by suicide.
So much so that alcohol misuseis associated with a 94%
increase in the risk of death bysuicide.
That's big.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all.
I mean, it takes away yourinhibitions, right?
So you're having these feelingsthat you're wanting to do this.
You're profoundly depressed.
This alcohol is making you moredepressed and it's like taking
away your inhibitions.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, one plus one equals two.
On that yeah research foundthat a higher frequency and
quantity of alcohol consumedplays a major role in death by
suicide.
The more heavily inhibituallysomeone drinks, the more
vulnerable they are to theserisks.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, so, and there's also an increased connection of
teens to suicide.
There's been a lot of pressabout the rise in suicides among
teens over the past few years.
First data point to note isthat the suicide rate is much
higher for males than females,so, and I think that's been that
way for a long time.
So it's often reported thatfemales attempt suicide more
(23:50):
often than males, but theirmethods are less deadly and are
reversed by treatment.
And I don't have the statisticin front of me, but I do think
that men tend to use firearms,whereas women tend to use
prescription medication.
So when suicide attempt doesnot lead to death, however, it's
hard to know if it was anactual attempt or just a call
(24:10):
for help.
So suicide is the third leadingcause of death of young people
between the ages of 15 and 24.
So 5,000 young people completesuicide in the US each year, and
each year there's approximately10 youth suicides for every
100,000 youth.
(24:31):
So each day there'sapproximately 12 youth suicides.
That's just sad, I mean it'stragic.
So and then there are a lot ofmyths about suicide.
So one is the mistaken beliefthat talking about it to a
person in danger encourages theact, and I referenced that a
little bit earlier.
If a loved one expressesthoughts or plans of suicide, it
(24:54):
is essential, people, essentialto initiate a conversation, not
in the way of saying you're notgonna do it right.
It's essential.
So it's wise to approach thediscussion by identifying
concrete resources, such as atherapist or suicide prevention
hotline, and to conclude theconversation with a stated
commitment to follow up with theperson over time.
(25:17):
So you wanna be really direct.
How are you coping with yourchallenges?
Are you thinking about hurtingyourself?
Are you thinking about dying?
Are you thinking about suicide?
Have you come up with a planfor taking your own life?
Like if you can't remember theones that I just said and you're
afraid that you know somebodywho's possibly talking about
(25:39):
suicide or thinking aboutsuicide?
Google five questions, writethem down, go in and ask them
straight.
You know, yeah, straightforward manner.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, and you know where someone is contemplating
suicide.
How can they get help?
So anyone who's experiencingpersistent suicidal thoughts or
behaviors should seek help assoon as possible.
During a crisis, the bestresources are usually suicide
hotlines, which I will belinking the US national suicide
hotline number in our show notes.
(26:09):
So suicide hotlines are staffedby people who are trained to
both talk someone through animmediate crisis and connect
them with additional help intheir areas, such as crisis
centers or local authorities.
Beyond that, seeking the helpof a trained mental health
professional is the best way toward off future crisis and
(26:30):
sustain well-being over time.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And telehealth is really.
You know, I'm not a hugetelehealth person just because I
love having people in my officeand I love that rapport that
you get.
But listen, telehealth one ofthe amazing things about it is
that it can be such a tool touse, because you can get in
quickly and it has a you know, acost variable that can work for
(26:58):
a lot of people.
So you know, that's a greattool out there right now too.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then you know also, ifyou're experiencing a crisis and
it's late at night, it's inlike that emergency room.
You know that's another optionas well.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So and now I believe they that 988 is the number.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, that is the number, so I'm going to link
that.
You can call that number.
You can text that number.
They have a website.
It's open 24 hours a day soit's always accessible to read
someone.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
On the other end of the phone there's a really good
podcast episode on armchairexpert with our surgeon general
Vivek Morphy.
I believe, is how you pronouncehis name, and he's talking about
the initiative of, ofloneliness and his six different
points on what to do with thisepidemic of loneliness and that
(27:56):
kind of rolls into theconversation of suicide,
suicidality, and so I do feel alot of hope that this is
starting to be something that'smore on the radar, that human
connection, and is so importantfor our mental and physical
health that the surgeon generalis now taking a charge and
(28:18):
putting a lot of focus on that.
So that makes me feel hopeful.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, me too, and you know, just check on your loved
ones.
We don't know what others aregoing through on a day to day
basis.
We're so wrapped up in whatwe've got going on that
sometimes we don't see outsideof our tunnel vision, you know,
and so it's just reallyimportant to make sure that
you're checking in with othersand you know, and by doing that,
maybe these conversations willget easier as we go on.
(28:44):
So, yeah, Okay, well, speakingof, we do have an answer that
talks a little bit about deathas well.
So this is from anonymous.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
We're just going to keep it on a low note.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
We're just going to keep it on a low note.
Yeah so, it says from anonymous.
I have recently had a few lovedones pass and I'm struggling
with anxiety of my own mortality.
Any advice on how not to beoverwhelmed by the thought of
dying?
Yeah so.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I should read these before we get on air.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
If you'd like me to start.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Well, I just yes, I would like you to start.
Okay, you start, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
So it's.
You know it's.
It's a difficult understandableto have anxiety around death,
especially like when you'refacing it head on with so many
people that are close to you.
That's all happened at the sametime.
You know it's inevitable.
The skill is to not let deathanxiety hinder our way of life.
But for some it's actually arecognized mental health
(29:48):
disorder and it's called I'mgoing to say this wrong because
I say all the long words wrong,but it's called thinotophobia.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I don't even know that one.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
So it's considered a phobia if the fear arises
virtually every time you thinkabout death or death of a loved
one, so it's the fear thatpersists for more than six
months or it's the fear thatprevents you from functioning
every day.
So if you're having that typeof anxiety, any consultant
mental health professionalthat's going to be the number
one thing.
(30:22):
I know that when I had a coupleof family members pass, it does
make you kind of think aboutyour own mortality and realize,
like, the importance of the lifethat you have and what you have
moving forward.
So I think it's important tofocus on what the positives that
you have in your life and Ifeel like that can also help
(30:45):
curb those constant thoughts ofthe anxiety of dying per se.
But if it's a constant thought,like I said, and you're
constantly having those, thenthat's when I would consult a
mental health counselor and theycan help guide you that way?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, because if you're having anxiety around it
and you are perseverating orruminating about it, then talk
to a therapist, because theycould, as I always say, do some
EMDR around what it might betriggering for you that you're
not even aware of.
So that's possible.
If it's around a fear of dyinga specific way, then I'd be
(31:25):
wondering about exposure therapy.
So is it something specificthat you're afraid?
Is it being trapped in smallspaces?
Is it?
Do you know what I mean?
It depends on what that lookslike.
And then kind of what you weresaying, focusing on the positive
start structuring your day sothat you feel like you're really
(31:45):
putting an emphasis on healthand wellness, so that you feel
like you have some level andmeasure of control over that
Right Like, are you doing amorning routine?
Are you drinking hot lemonwater which I just added, which
my voice I know does not seemlike, but it is quite nice Are
you exercising to maintain goodhealth?
So then at least you're puttinga little bit of that control
(32:07):
back into your hands to say I'mdoing the best I can.
And then what you were sayingwith the positive thinking as
long as you're going.
I'm really grateful for this andI'm thankful for this.
You know, naming one or twothings, either by writing it
down or saying it in your ownhead each morning, gives you
more of a positive outlook foryour day.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And then also hard.
It is hard and when you say,like struggling with anxiety and
my immortality, are you worriedthat you're not going to
accomplish things that you wantto accomplish before you pass.
So that's also a thing as faras, like, make a list of what
you want to accomplish, yourbucket list of things, and go
out there and do them.
You know right.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So don't put things off.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Do them now.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I hopeit helps.
I know it's a sticky, it's asticky situation and but yeah,
if you're having those constantthoughts, definitely reach out
to mental health providerbecause they can definitely help
you.
Yeah, all right.
Well, thank you to ourlisteners for joining us today.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
(33:08):
review on Apple podcasts.
This will help us move up thechart and be more accessible to
new listeners.
You can also follow us onInstagram and Facebook, which is
which are in the links below.
If you have a question for usand answered, segment, email us
at ask us atspellingatheraitycom.
Don't forget to check out ourwebsite, which is also linked
below.
We'll continue to add resourcesand information there as well.
(33:30):
I hope everyone has a greatweekend, stay safe.
We're your hosts, kathy Danmoreand Jess Lowe.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And join us next time where we'll be discussing
emotionally unavailable people.
We'll be breaking it down onesip at a time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.