September 29, 2023 • 34 mins
**TRIGGER WARNING**
THIS EPISODE DISCUSSES LOSS -INCLUDING LOSS OF A CHILD.
Welcome to a profound dive into the wild beast that is grief. A multidimensional journey that's anything but straightforward, filled with emotional highs and lows that can leave you feeling as if you're on a rollercoaster. As your hosts, grief coach Jess Lowe and therapist KathyDan Moore, we will guide you through this complex maze, covering everything from the various stages of grief to the unique emotional challenges it presents. From the depths of denial and anger, to the bargaining and acceptance stages, we unlock the different manifestations of each phase, emphasizing that there's no one-size-fits-all approach to grieving. Determined to look grief in the eye, we delve into the significance of self-care and the importance of granting ourselves grace during this difficult time. We promise, moving forward doesn't equate to leaving your loved one behind. Rather, it's about nurturing yourself and creating a fresh start, all while cherishing the memory of your loved one. Lastly, we tackle the five pitfalls of grief - offering ways to overcome them. We advocate for embracing grief as a way of honoring and commemorating the love for our loved one, even in their absence. It's a heartwarming conversation that anyone grappling with grief should not miss out on. Tune in and let's navigate this journey together.
**********************
Resources:
Grief.com
INSTITUTE OF PROFESSIONAL GRIEF COACHING- from Grief to Gratitude
Author Mentioned:
Malcolm Gladwell
https://www.gladwellbooks.com/
**********************
DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace the advice you may be receiving from a licensed therapist.This podcast and website represents the opinions of KathyDan Moore, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Grief Coach Jess Lowe, and their guests to the show and website. The content here should not be taken as medical advice.
The content here is for informational purposes only, and because each person is so unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions.Views and opinions expressed in the podcast and website are our own. While we make every effort to ensure that the information we are sharing is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors.
Privacy is of utmost importance to us. All people, places, and scenarios mentioned in the podcast have been changed to protect patient confidentiality.This website or podcast should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever, including but not limited to establishing “standard of care” in a legal sense or as a basis for expert witness testimony.
No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast or website.In no way does listening, reading, emailing or interacting on social media with our content establish a doctor-patient relationship.
If you find any errors in any of the content of these podcasts or blogs, please send a message to kdandjess@spillingthetheratea.com.
Podcast Music by: Lemon Music
Have a question for our Asked and Answered Segment? Email Us!
AskUs@spillingthetheratea.com
Follow us on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/spillingthetherateapodcast
Follow us on Facebook!
https://www.facebook.com/Spilling-the-Thera-Tea-103883072393873/
Check out our website!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Spilling the Theratine with
therapist Kathy Dan Moore andgrief coach Jess Leib.
Hey, kathy Dan, how are youtoday?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey, jess, good to see you.
Sorry, you two sound a littleunder the weather.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I have like the Phoebe voice, because I feel
like I do have the Phoebe voiceon friends.
When she was sick, yeah, shewanted to sound sexy, but I
don't feel like I sound sexy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And she wanted to keep it.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
She wouldn't want to kind of like cough on her.
So funny.
Yeah, I'm thinking maybe it'sjust allergies and grass.
I'm hoping that's all it is,because I don't want to go to
the doctor.
I hate going to one of thosepeople.
I hate going to the doctor, butyeah.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And did it get cool up there?
Because Lily said it was like60 degrees the other day when
she woke up in Tallahassee.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh, it's not, it's pretty.
It's gotten cooler.
I'd say maybe like 65 in themorning, but it immediately gets
to like high 80s.
Yeah, pretty fast.
The highs have been like 89this past week, which I'm like
oh, it's fall.
I want my sweaters and all thethings.
Yes, a little too hot, a littletoo hot, but I'm hoping that
(01:12):
it's going in that direction.
Is it cool there?
Yeah, for sure.
No, how was your trip to seeLily last time you told us you
were going?
It was so great.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It was so much fun.
My mom is so easy and nice totravel with, so it was just the
two of us.
We went up, took her out todinner.
It was just so good to see herand it was hard to leave again
and it was kind of funny becauseI was driving and I was in my
car and I drive a little car now, yeah.
And so my mom and I are likedrop Lily off after dinner and
(01:51):
I'm trying to figure and it'skind of a newish car and I'm
trying to figure out like thenavigation system, yeah.
So I'm like sort of doing thatand kind of pulling out and all
of a sudden I look over andthere's never been a lot of kids
on the campus.
By the way, like when I'vetaken her, she went early for
sorority, she went in the summerand I was there once when no
kids were there for orientation.
So it was a new experiencethere, kids everywhere.
(02:13):
And so my mom and I are likewhat are those voices?
And it sounds like they're likeright on top of the.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I did something in my kitchen.
Hang on, okay.
Okay, I'm not sure are there isa ghost in my house.
That was a loud sound.
There's nothing out of place.
I don't know, I don't know, butkeep going.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Interesting.
So anyway, it seemed like therewere people talking like right
next to us and I couldn't.
It was dark and like my mom andI are like what is happening?
So all of a sudden I look backand there's this woman girl on a
moped with a partner, andthey're yelling at me.
And so I was like, oh, mom,like I think I think I must have
(03:02):
pulled out in front of them.
I probably almost fucking hitthem.
And so my mom was like, oh mygoodness.
So she like zips around me andparks in the front of like this
little like area where themopeds can park and she gets out
, she flips me off and goeslearn how to fucking drive slut.
(03:23):
I look at my mom, I go did shejust call me a slut?
And my mom's, like she did, andshe goes thank god Lily's
inside the dorm, she would havedied of embarrassment.
And so like I'm like mom, doyou think I should go back and
(03:44):
apologize Like I did it?
She goes no, kate, no Drive tothe hotel.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I haven't heard a new one really use that word Right
Forever, except for Jonathan VanNets.
Yeah, like as is daily, likeaffirmations, but other than
that I haven't heard that I'veused it a long time, except for
somebody like a young, likeyoung Right.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
That's so funny, I know.
But yes, all in all it wasreally like an amazing.
I mean it was quick.
And then we drove back, we hadbreakfast with her the next
morning and she showed us whereher classes were and all of that
.
So it was quick, but it wasreally really nice.
Yeah, so it's good.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
So today we're back on thehorse the grief we are.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
We're on the grief horse.
So we've previously chattedabout grief as a whole in an
earlier episode, but today wewanted to talk about grief
journeys, the stages of grief,the emotions that arise in the
top five pitfalls of grief thatmany people do experience.
So you know, the range ofemotions that someone
experiences when they'regrieving is as long a list is a
(04:58):
range of emotions when we haveany kind of relationship.
Commonly there's panic, anxiety, there's sadness and there's
yearning, but what we sometimesforget is that there's also
difficulty concentrating andconfusion about what happens
next.
Yeah, you know, grief is a wildbeast that changes daily.
Some days you can feel likeyou're just fine and then you
(05:20):
smell something, you hearsomething or you think about
something that reminds you ofyour loved one, and then you're
knocked on your ass and you wantto crawl in a hole and not come
out Right, you know, some daysyou can take one step forward
and others you can take 10 stepsbackwards.
But when you're in the midst ofgrieving, it's extremely
important to give yourself gracetime to grieve and to feel all
(05:41):
the emotions that come alongwith losing a loved one.
It's also important to moveforward, and this may be easier
said than done, but movingforward doesn't mean that you're
leaving your loved one behind.
It means that you're lovingyourself and creating a new
beginning and also providingopportunity even to bring your
loved one's memory and legacyalong with you.
And we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit later too, but
(06:05):
we wanted to do a little recapof the five stages of grief.
I want to start by saying thatgrief is not linear.
It's different for everyone andthe stages of grief vary.
They're not going to go in thisorder for everyone.
They could for some people, butthey can hop around, and
sometimes you might think thatyou're done with a stage and
then you go back into it andthen you go into another one,
(06:25):
and so it's.
You're kind of all over theplace.
But these five stages arepretty common for most griefers,
so I wanted to explain them sothat those grieving can better
understand the emotions thatthey're feeling and know that
they're not alone in grief.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, this is timely.
I had one of my oldest andsweetest clients that I saw
today and I just love her andshe just lost her beloved
grandmother, who was 96.
But, yeah, and it doesn'tmatter how old they are right,
it's a loss and she was such anintegral part of her life and,
(07:01):
as a therapist, we're supposedto be able to keep our own
emotions in check, but we don'talways and I was needing a
tissue just in her retelling methe last week and before I break
down the stages.
I just thought of this, but oneof the things that I hear from
her.
And then another one of my dearfriends lost her mother
recently, who was also quiteelderly, and both ladies said to
(07:25):
me I just feel like I should beso grateful that they were
around for so long.
I just feel like I should havebeen prepared for them to go.
I feel like I should feel morejust appreciative of the time I
got with them.
And yet I'm just so sad and thething that I kind of repeat to
(07:47):
my friend and to my client whoI've been seeing her so long.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I was trying to her as a friend too, right.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Right Is.
The only thing you should do inthis process is honor exactly
where you are when you're there,right Exactly Because it's not
linear, but the stereotypicaland the definition of the stages
is important, and the first oneis denial.
That really helps us survivethe loss.
(08:16):
So, in this stage, life doesn'tmake a lot of sense.
So lots of times we're in astate of shock, we go numb, we
wonder how we're going to go on.
If we could go on, why shouldwe go on?
And this is typically yoursurvival mode.
So the denial and the shockhelp us cope and make survival
(08:38):
possible, and denial helps us topace our feelings of grief.
That's important.
Most people think denial is abad thing, but there's grace in
denial.
It's nature's way of letting inonly as much as we can handle
at the time.
So as you accept the reality ofthe loss and start to ask
yourself questions, you'reunknowingly beginning the
(09:02):
healing process.
So denial is okay.
You're becoming stronger andthe denial it will fade.
But as you proceed, all thefeelings you were denying
they're going to begin surfacing, yeah, and people wonder
sometimes why is so and so notcorrect, why is so and so not
crying?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
They just lost their grandmother or whatever.
But they're dealing with somany things at the very
beginning of a loss, such as thefuneral stuff and all of that,
that this is kind of a savinggrace for people when they're in
that stage unknowingly, becauseimagine if they were in the
anger stage, the depressionstage, right out the gate and
they're also trying to deal withall that as well.
(09:40):
So it is a very necessary stage.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, and that's why in all of the law and order,
svus and and they're like well,they're just not great, even
with us when we are interviewingpeople, tvs, interviewing a
husband that just lost theirwife, and they just don't seem
remorseful enough or whatever.
I mean sometimes they did killtheir wife, but yeah, but normal
(10:07):
, there's a lot of shock.
Malcolm Gladwell does a goodbit on this and I can't quote
which book it's out of right now, but they're all good and I
always think everybody shouldread every Malcolm Gladwell
thing that's out there and hetalks about that, how this is
not a type of behavior that canbe counted on as reliable
(10:30):
evidence.
I can't find that word, but yeahso anyway, I agree.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
And then there's anger.
It's a necessary stage of thehealing process.
Also, don't hold back.
Be willing to feel your anger,even if it may seem endless.
I feel like the more that youtruly feel it, the more it will
begin to dissipate and the morethat you will heal, because
under anger's pain, your painand it's natural to feel
deserted and abandoned, and notjust by your loved one, but by
(10:58):
your friends that after theservices have not shown up as
they were, because they wereprobably smothering you at first
, and now they're going back totheir normal lives, and so it's
normal to feel that way.
At first, grief feels likebeing lost at sea.
There's no connection toanything.
Then you get angry at someone.
It could be someone who didn'tattend the funeral, maybe it's
someone who isn't around anymore.
(11:19):
Maybe it's a person who'sdifferent now that your loved
one has died.
Maybe it's the loved one thatyou lost, you're angry, even
though it's not their fault,you're still angry that you
can't have them with you.
So we usually know more aboutsuppressing anger than feeling
it.
But the anger is just anotherindication of the intensity of
your love for that person.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And then bargaining.
Bargaining's an interesting one, right?
Because we don't necessarily dobargaining after we've lost
somebody.
Lots of times, bargaining showsup more when we're in the
process of losing them.
Please God, if you spare them.
I'll never be angry at my wifeagain.
I'll never, if you just let herlive.
But after a loss, bargainingcan take the form of a temporary
(12:03):
truce.
So if I devote the rest of mylife to helping other people.
Then I can wake up and realizethat this was all just a bad
dream.
So, we become lost and amazed ofthe if only and the what if
statements so, and we want lifereturned to what it was.
So we want our loved onerestored, we want to go back in
(12:24):
time.
We want to find the tumorsooner, recognize the illness
more quickly, stop the accidentfrom happening.
If only, if only.
So.
Guilt is often bargaining'slittle buddy, their little
companion, because the if onlyscause us to find fault in
ourselves of what we think wecould have done differently.
(12:45):
Gosh, that second guessing, youknow what I mean.
We may even bargain with thepain.
We'll do anything to not feelthe pain of the loss.
So, this can keep you reallyremaining in the past, trying to
negotiate our way out of thehurt.
So people often think of thestages as lasting weeks or
(13:07):
months.
That's pretty common.
I hear that a lot.
But they forget that the stagesare responses to feelings that
can last for minutes or hours aswe flip in and out of one
another.
So we don't enter and leaveeach individual stage, like we
said, in this linear fashion andit's not set on a set time of
(13:31):
days, weeks, months, years.
It can be moments.
And that's an important one toremember.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
And then there's depression.
Empty feelings presentthemselves and grief enters our
lives on a deeper level, deeperthan we ever imagined.
The suppressive state feels asthough it will last forever.
It's important to understandthat depression is not a sign of
mental illness, that it is anappropriate response to a great
loss as well.
Right, it's situational.
(13:58):
It's situational.
We do withdraw from life, leftin a fog of sadness, wondering
perhaps if there's any point ofgoing on alone.
Why go on at all?
Depression after a loss is toooften seen as unnatural a state
to be fixed, something to snapout of, and I used to hear that
(14:19):
a lot.
I feel like older generationsthat weren't really in tune with
their emotions and feelings.
I remember hearing that a lotfrom my great-grandfather would
say that the first question toask yourself is whether or not a
situation you're in is actuallydepressing.
The loss of a loved one is adepressing situation and
depression is a normal response.
(14:40):
So when a loss fully settles inyour soul, the realization that
your loved one didn't getbetter this time and is not
coming back is understandablydepressing.
If grief is a process ofhealing, then depression is one
of the many steps along the way.
And then, if you're going whereit's getting deep and you're
having, I wanna say, intrusivethoughts, that's when you do
(15:01):
need to see a counselor on that.
So I don't wanna put that plugin there for sure, Definitely.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And then the last is acceptance.
So it's often confused with thenotion of all right,
everything's good, it's all okaywith what happened.
And that's not reality.
Nobody that loses a child isever like I'm good with that.
I mean, that's not realistic somost people don't ever feel
okay or all right about the lossof a loved one.
(15:30):
We really have to redefine whatthat looks like.
It's really about accepting thereality that our loved one's
physically gone and recognizingthat this new reality is
permanent.
So, we don't have to like thenew reality, we're not gonna be
okay with it, but eventually weaccept it.
So we learn to live with it.
It's the new norm that we haveto learn to live with, so we
(15:53):
have to try to live in a worldwhere our loved one's missing.
In resisting this new norm, atfirst, many people wanna
maintain their life as it waswhen their loved one was with
them.
So.
But when we lose a loved one,whether we realize it or not at
the time, our lives will beforever changed, and we have to
(16:14):
readjust to that.
So we have to learn toreorganize our roles, reassign
them to others or take them onourselves.
That's hard, and so findingacceptance may really just be
like having a few more good daysthan you did before, a few more
good ones than bad, beginningto do things that you enjoy
(16:35):
again living your life againright, without feeling like
you're betraying your loved one.
That's past, yeah, so it andit's.
It's not replacing the timewith them, but it's allowing
yourself the space for makingnew connections and relationship
.
Mm-hmm oh instead of denyingyour feelings, we want to listen
(16:59):
to our needs.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So we move, we change , we grow, we evolve.
We have to do that so we startto reach out to others and
become involved in their lives,and then this is a biggie we
have to start investing in ourfriendships and in our
relationships again.
Yeah, so that this is when webegin to live again.
But we cannot do until we'vereally grieved.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
And out ourselves the time to grieve absolutely, and
there is something that Ilearned from my mentor when I
was doing the Greek coaching,like going through the Greek
coaching certification, but shesays to decide to say yes.
So the why and yes is yield,allow and receive.
So slow down and come into thepresent.
(17:43):
Don't allow past hurts to enter.
Pay attention to all that theuniverse has available to you.
Embrace is the E, so embracethe possibilities of your
potential, the possibilities ofyour future.
This is how we're talking aboutmoving forward.
This is where the impossiblebecomes possible.
So, no, you count and yourpoise for greatness.
And then the S is surrender.
(18:04):
So surrender to the outcome,letting go and trusting not
letting go of your love them,but letting go of that fear of
the unknown in your futuremoving forward.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So yeah, I love that.
Yes, so yes yes.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
We're gonna also talk a little bit about the five
pitfalls of grief too.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yes, yes.
So anxiety and stress, oh so,in a lot of cases, anxiety and
stress experience is due to theanticipation and fear of your
future without your loved one.
I'll just saw something thatlike the other day about I don't
think we talk enough.
(18:44):
Maybe you and I were talkingabout this, I don't even know.
I don't think we talk enoughabout the anticipation of the
grief of losing our loved onesas our parents age.
Yeah, so that for me feels real.
But so anyway, although thepain and absence you might feel
(19:04):
as natural and normal, focusingonly on these feelings can
create a lot of anxiety andstress for people.
So the mind, the spirit, thebody, people, it all works
together.
So the broken heart, if it'snot addressed, can kind of like
wreak havoc on the rest of yourbody.
So allow the pain and hurt outso you can make room to receive
(19:27):
your hope, love and gratitude.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, absolutely and you're talking about you know
the fear, an anxiety.
I have a friend that she.
We just spoke the other day andshe mentioned like that her
anxiety is now in play.
She lost her son a couplemonths back and her anxiety now
is, you know, worry about hertwo daughters, like losing them.
(19:50):
And so how you're talking aboutlosing your mom now she's, you
know, has anxiety about losingher two girls.
So that's something that youjust don't really think about
until you're in that.
You know that position andthere's also guilt and regret.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So mom is really healthy, by the way.
He says super, super healthy,healthy woman.
She is right, and so this is acompletely unfounded anxiety For
myself, because she's alwaysbeen my person right.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So guilt and regret.
There are two more difficultemotions to overcome our guilt
and regret.
So getting beyond this shouldhave it only I had, I ought to
have, why didn't I?
Takes time, patience and work.
So whether these thoughts arerational or not, the feelings
are very real and must beacknowledged and released.
So beating up or blamingyourself for something you did
(20:46):
or didn't do or somethingsomeone else did or didn't do,
can cause you great mental andphysical harm as well.
So that so grief work isnecessary to work through the
emotions of loss, and I highlyrecommend not ignoring Emotions
of guilt and regret.
So if you find that you can'tget beyond these feelings, seek
a professional counselor,therapist, greed coach to help
you.
You know, as you travel yourgrief journey, be patient and
(21:10):
kind with yourself.
We're gonna say that abouteverything in life.
We just need to be patient andkind with ourself.
You know, if you, for example,if you had a broken leg, you
would probably have to go to adoctor and you know you would
probably need to cast a helpmend it right.
So time and patience help healand restore Physical therapy to
strengthen it.
Likewise, your broken heartrequires the process of
(21:31):
acknowledging the pain,accepting the loss and taking
action to move forward in yourlife.
So you must take action to movebeyond these two potentially
devastating emotions.
So talking to someone, either anon-judgmental friend or a
professional, or even journaling, are great means of releasing
that guilt, regret and evenanger too.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, so and I want to talk out for a second
about family traditions.
Yeah, losing a loved one canmake you feel like all the
family time and traditions thatyou once experienced no longer
matter or they don't.
Yeah, they feel kind of empty,especially the first year.
The first year is always reallyhard because you have all those
first, first yeah.
(22:10):
Yeah, so don't overwhelm yourplate.
Limit the number of commitmentsthat you make.
So let family members know thatyou're not sure if you'll be
attending.
It's okay to say no toinvitations.
I think sometimes we getworried if we say no or to now,
don't over, like I'm not outsideof isolating to an unhealthy
(22:30):
degree, right, right, butsometimes we really do need to.
It's not called isolating, Icall it hibernating.
Yeah, sometimes we really doneed a little hibernation period
and that is OK.
It will not last forever.
You will come out of it andfeel ready to reengage.
So it's all right to say no toinvitations.
(22:52):
You can just participate asmuch or as little as you feel
like you want to.
You know, yeah, don't be afraidto acknowledge the elephant in
the room.
Others may not feel comfortablementioning the disease for fear
of upsetting you.
So it's OK to bring it up.
And, yeah, and talk about it.
On me, yeah, find creative waysto blend old family traditions
(23:14):
with new ones.
I like that.
So have a memorial tribute inmemory of your loved one at the
event.
Have like a photo, acandlelighting, something like
that.
That feels like you're honoringthem.
So, and overall, it's yourjourney.
So don't do activities thatcause you anxiety or stress.
(23:35):
Do as much or as little as youfeel like.
Honors where you are right now,especially in this first year.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, I don't feel like telling your family members
that you don't want to go tocertain things is irrational.
I mean, if your family isanything like mine, we have all
these different Christmas eventsthat we do, and it's OK to not
go to two of them, like there's50 of them.
So take on what you can take onmentally for sure.
And then also the fear of thefuture.
(24:06):
So it's quite common to fearthe unknown.
As this is all new to you, mygrief mentor, dora Carpenter of
the Institute of ProfessionalGrief Coaching, recommends us.
It reminds us that fear andfaith can't live in the same
house.
So you must choose one or theother.
So fear of life without yourloved one can be overwhelming.
The loss of a loved one cancreate fear due to new
(24:28):
responsibilities, loss of income, security, emotional support,
companionship, faith,self-esteem, sense of belonging,
just to name a few.
But it's understandable, asyour hopes, dreams and
expectations for the future havebeen shattered.
Fear itself is not to be feared.
Everyone has it, and as long asyou continue to grow, you will
(24:50):
experience fear.
However, if not dealt with, itcan paralyze you.
So in order to move forward,you must do the grief work to
transfer that fear, that doubt,that worry and uncertainty into
confidence, power, peace andlove.
So look for and open your heartto receiving the beauty,
miracles and joy and all thepossibilities of your new life
going forward, because there aregoing to be some joyous times
(25:11):
ahead.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
OK, so here's an alarming statistic that I
learned 2% of unresolved griefcan affect every area of the
body.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Oh yeah, Because you make yourself physically sick
and everything else.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
So yeah, not surprising, and we've talked
before.
Trauma lives in the body.
So one thing we want to stressover and over is that no one can
tell you how to grieve.
There's no right or wrong way.
Nobody wrote the rule book, ok.
So when people are trying to behelpful, they can really say
the wrong things, and you shouldbe over it by now.
Your mom died five years ago.
You're young.
Find another spouse.
(25:48):
You have three other children.
Stop going to the cemeteryevery day.
And what's interesting is, myclient just today was saying how
she has so many people sayingyou had so many good years with
her, and I said we talked aboutthis and I mean, yes, you did
(26:09):
have so many good years with her.
But one of the things that'simportant is that I think is
important is that what thosepeople are doing is really that
it's A everybody's uncomfortabletalking about it.
B they're ultimately, in mostcases, trying to be helpful and
don't know how to do it.
So offering some grace topeople when they're saying the
(26:33):
wrong things is important too,because they really are just
trying to figure out how to bereassuring, and this isn't
something people talk about alot, so we're not really
well-versed in how to be mosthelpful.
So I was saying to my clienttoday just say that might be
true, but I'm not there yet.
(26:54):
Like you can come back withthings like that to honor where
you are If somebody sayssomething that feels that it's
not being very understanding ofwhere you are in the process
Because no one knows the exactrelationship you have with your
loved one.
They can't possibly understandhow you feel so and people will
(27:16):
say it just takes time.
So that's true, it does taketime and it takes a lot of
effort and being reallyintentional about trying to work
through your grief, not rushingit, just intentionally tending
to it.
So, and if you need to sort ofturn inward and say I'm strong,
(27:37):
I can handle it myself.
Some people can Like this isnot, some people absolutely can
but the pain and loss and theprocess of moving forward can be
overwhelming and it can bedifficult to walk alone.
So not that everybody needs avillage to walk it, but most
(27:58):
people do need at least oneperson.
Oh, yeah for sure.
So accepting some help alongthe way.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I think is really important.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, so it's going to.
Your new life is going to moveforward and it's going to be
meaningful, but you have toallow it and be open to receive
that.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, and for me, I couldn't do it alone.
I was dealing with multiplelosses in a short time frame and
it sent me over that edge whereI was like I can't do it, not
by myself.
So that's when I found grief,coaching and I worked a program.
I was able to see what my newlife was without my loved ones,
(28:38):
how to move forward in a way,not only to celebrate the love
that I still have for them, butalso to show myself that I'm
worthy of having a great lifestill.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
We'll always grieve our loved ones.
We grieve because we love themso much.
But with time and effort we canmanage that grief and
understand our feelings so thatwhen those waves of grief hit us
, we're able to use the toolsthat we've learned to keep us on
track with what we've created.
I also want to say that ifyou're feeling unresolved trauma
that's associated with a lovedone, seeking out a therapist is
(29:11):
also important.
Counselors and coaches are ableto work together.
The counselors tackle that pasttrauma and grief.
Coaches can guide you forwardon life after loss.
So if you're having someunresolved trauma, please seek
out a therapist, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, I had heard I don't remember what celebrity it
was somebody talking about theloss of their mother and they
said that they really just sortof butcher this quote, but they
just fold into the grief andthey actually enjoy it because
this person was so meaningful tothem.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
It was Andrew Garfield, was that who it was?
From Spider-Man, andrewGarfield.
Is that his name?
Yes, yeah, from Spider-Man, Ithink it was him, was that?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
about his mother, mm-hmm, yeah, and I thought that
was really beautiful way tokind of reframe that, that he's
able to go wow.
I feel this sadness because shewas so amazing and wonderful
and impactful.
So now that I've butchered it,everybody just YouTube that and
(30:11):
watch it, because it's much morebeautiful when it comes out of
his mouth it is.
All right, anything you want toadd today?
I think that's it.
Yeah, I just know it's reallyhard.
So anybody out here there who'sstruggling with it you know
you're not alone reach out, talkabout it and just be soft with
(30:32):
yourself, for sure, AbsolutelyOkay.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Well, we do have an answer answered.
It's from Tim and Tulsa.
He says hi, Kathy and Jess.
I have always dreamed ofworking in New York and have
finally and finally had thatopportunity.
However, the closer it gets tomy move date, the more anxious
and overwhelmed I become, to thepoint I second guess myself any
advice on how to get off thisemotional roller coaster.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
So some logistical advice is tell yourself that
once you're there, if after ayear it's not going to work, you
can move back to Tulsa.
I, as somebody who absolutelyadores New York City, I'm going
to tell you you're not going towant to move back to Tulsa.
So let me reassure you rightnow that that's probably not
going to happen.
You know, but just because yougo there doesn't mean that you
(31:21):
can't go back.
You could go home, yeah, so Ithink just knowing that and
putting a timeline on it reallyhelps to dissipate some of that
sort of anticipatory anxietythat we experience.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then also it says thatyou're going to New York to work
, so obviously you have a jobopportunity that someone saw
that you would be able to dothat job, so they've offered you
that.
You know that that job, so youobviously know what you're doing
.
So right that you know like youobviously went through that
process and then you have theskills that it takes to do the
(31:55):
job that you're moving there for.
So you know, kudos to you.
Don't don't let that stop youfrom you know, from being
overwhelmed.
You know the overwhelmingnessof moving as scary, but just
know that you've got what ittakes in the job field.
If you're worried about meetingpeople and things, there's so
much networking in New York andthere's so many places to go and
(32:16):
things to do that I feel likeyou'll have a great opportunity
to network and meet new peoplethere.
So don't worry on that as well.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes it's just good tostart also getting online and
looking at things that you'reexcited to do ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, game planning some things that you're looking
forward to yeah absolutely, andthen you know if you're going to
be feeling homesick yourfriends and family can visit.
They don't want to go see, youknow.
Go to New York, so that's agreat opportunity for your
family to see you too, so yeah,it's going to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
It is, you can do it.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Tim Yay.
All right, well, thank you toour listeners for joining us
today.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
review on Apple Podcast.
This will help us move up thechart and be more accessible to
new listeners.
You can also follow us onInstagram, and Facebook will
drop tips and information aboutupcoming episodes.
If you have a question for ourAsk the Answered segment, email
(33:13):
us ataskusatspillingthetheritycom.
Don't forget to check out ournew website,
spillingthetheritycom.
We'll continue to add resourcesand information there as well.
I hope everyone has a greatweekend.
We are your hosts, kathy DanMoore and Jess Lip.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And join us next time , where we're going to be
talking a little more in depthabout infidelity and a fair
recovery.
We'll be breaking it down onesip at a time.
Welcome back to Spilling the Theratine with
therapist Kathy Dan Moore andgrief coach Jess Leib.
Hey, kathy Dan, how are youtoday?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey, jess, good to see you.
Sorry, you two sound a littleunder the weather.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I have like the Phoebe voice, because I feel
like I do have the Phoebe voiceon friends.
When she was sick, yeah, shewanted to sound sexy, but I
don't feel like I sound sexy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And she wanted to keep it.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
She wouldn't want to kind of like cough on her.
So funny.
Yeah, I'm thinking maybe it'sjust allergies and grass.
I'm hoping that's all it is,because I don't want to go to
the doctor.
I hate going to one of thosepeople.
I hate going to the doctor, butyeah.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And did it get cool up there?
Because Lily said it was like60 degrees the other day when
she woke up in Tallahassee.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh, it's not, it's pretty.
It's gotten cooler.
I'd say maybe like 65 in themorning, but it immediately gets
to like high 80s.
Yeah, pretty fast.
The highs have been like 89this past week, which I'm like
oh, it's fall.
I want my sweaters and all thethings.
Yes, a little too hot, a littletoo hot, but I'm hoping that
(01:12):
it's going in that direction.
Is it cool there?
Yeah, for sure.
No, how was your trip to seeLily last time you told us you
were going?
It was so great.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It was so much fun.
My mom is so easy and nice totravel with, so it was just the
two of us.
We went up, took her out todinner.
It was just so good to see herand it was hard to leave again
and it was kind of funny becauseI was driving and I was in my
car and I drive a little car now, yeah.
And so my mom and I are likedrop Lily off after dinner and
(01:51):
I'm trying to figure and it'skind of a newish car and I'm
trying to figure out like thenavigation system, yeah.
So I'm like sort of doing thatand kind of pulling out and all
of a sudden I look over andthere's never been a lot of kids
on the campus.
By the way, like when I'vetaken her, she went early for
sorority, she went in the summerand I was there once when no
kids were there for orientation.
So it was a new experiencethere, kids everywhere.
(02:13):
And so my mom and I are likewhat are those voices?
And it sounds like they're likeright on top of the.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I did something in my kitchen.
Hang on, okay.
Okay, I'm not sure are there isa ghost in my house.
That was a loud sound.
There's nothing out of place.
I don't know, I don't know, butkeep going.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Interesting.
So anyway, it seemed like therewere people talking like right
next to us and I couldn't.
It was dark and like my mom andI are like what is happening?
So all of a sudden I look backand there's this woman girl on a
moped with a partner, andthey're yelling at me.
And so I was like, oh, mom,like I think I think I must have
(03:02):
pulled out in front of them.
I probably almost fucking hitthem.
And so my mom was like, oh mygoodness.
So she like zips around me andparks in the front of like this
little like area where themopeds can park and she gets out
, she flips me off and goeslearn how to fucking drive slut.
(03:23):
I look at my mom, I go did shejust call me a slut?
And my mom's, like she did, andshe goes thank god Lily's
inside the dorm, she would havedied of embarrassment.
And so like I'm like mom, doyou think I should go back and
(03:44):
apologize Like I did it?
She goes no, kate, no Drive tothe hotel.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I haven't heard a new one really use that word Right
Forever, except for Jonathan VanNets.
Yeah, like as is daily, likeaffirmations, but other than
that I haven't heard that I'veused it a long time, except for
somebody like a young, likeyoung Right.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
That's so funny, I know.
But yes, all in all it wasreally like an amazing.
I mean it was quick.
And then we drove back, we hadbreakfast with her the next
morning and she showed us whereher classes were and all of that
.
So it was quick, but it wasreally really nice.
Yeah, so it's good.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
So today we're back on thehorse the grief we are.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
We're on the grief horse.
So we've previously chattedabout grief as a whole in an
earlier episode, but today wewanted to talk about grief
journeys, the stages of grief,the emotions that arise in the
top five pitfalls of grief thatmany people do experience.
So you know, the range ofemotions that someone
experiences when they'regrieving is as long a list is a
(04:58):
range of emotions when we haveany kind of relationship.
Commonly there's panic, anxiety, there's sadness and there's
yearning, but what we sometimesforget is that there's also
difficulty concentrating andconfusion about what happens
next.
Yeah, you know, grief is a wildbeast that changes daily.
Some days you can feel likeyou're just fine and then you
(05:20):
smell something, you hearsomething or you think about
something that reminds you ofyour loved one, and then you're
knocked on your ass and you wantto crawl in a hole and not come
out Right, you know, some daysyou can take one step forward
and others you can take 10 stepsbackwards.
But when you're in the midst ofgrieving, it's extremely
important to give yourself gracetime to grieve and to feel all
(05:41):
the emotions that come alongwith losing a loved one.
It's also important to moveforward, and this may be easier
said than done, but movingforward doesn't mean that you're
leaving your loved one behind.
It means that you're lovingyourself and creating a new
beginning and also providingopportunity even to bring your
loved one's memory and legacyalong with you.
And we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit later too, but
(06:05):
we wanted to do a little recapof the five stages of grief.
I want to start by saying thatgrief is not linear.
It's different for everyone andthe stages of grief vary.
They're not going to go in thisorder for everyone.
They could for some people, butthey can hop around, and
sometimes you might think thatyou're done with a stage and
then you go back into it andthen you go into another one,
(06:25):
and so it's.
You're kind of all over theplace.
But these five stages arepretty common for most griefers,
so I wanted to explain them sothat those grieving can better
understand the emotions thatthey're feeling and know that
they're not alone in grief.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, this is timely.
I had one of my oldest andsweetest clients that I saw
today and I just love her andshe just lost her beloved
grandmother, who was 96.
But, yeah, and it doesn'tmatter how old they are right,
it's a loss and she was such anintegral part of her life and,
(07:01):
as a therapist, we're supposedto be able to keep our own
emotions in check, but we don'talways and I was needing a
tissue just in her retelling methe last week and before I break
down the stages.
I just thought of this, but oneof the things that I hear from
her.
And then another one of my dearfriends lost her mother
recently, who was also quiteelderly, and both ladies said to
(07:25):
me I just feel like I should beso grateful that they were
around for so long.
I just feel like I should havebeen prepared for them to go.
I feel like I should feel morejust appreciative of the time I
got with them.
And yet I'm just so sad and thething that I kind of repeat to
(07:47):
my friend and to my client whoI've been seeing her so long.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I was trying to her as a friend too, right.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Right Is.
The only thing you should do inthis process is honor exactly
where you are when you're there,right Exactly Because it's not
linear, but the stereotypicaland the definition of the stages
is important, and the first oneis denial.
That really helps us survivethe loss.
(08:16):
So, in this stage, life doesn'tmake a lot of sense.
So lots of times we're in astate of shock, we go numb, we
wonder how we're going to go on.
If we could go on, why shouldwe go on?
And this is typically yoursurvival mode.
So the denial and the shockhelp us cope and make survival
(08:38):
possible, and denial helps us topace our feelings of grief.
That's important.
Most people think denial is abad thing, but there's grace in
denial.
It's nature's way of letting inonly as much as we can handle
at the time.
So as you accept the reality ofthe loss and start to ask
yourself questions, you'reunknowingly beginning the
(09:02):
healing process.
So denial is okay.
You're becoming stronger andthe denial it will fade.
But as you proceed, all thefeelings you were denying
they're going to begin surfacing, yeah, and people wonder
sometimes why is so and so notcorrect, why is so and so not
crying?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
They just lost their grandmother or whatever.
But they're dealing with somany things at the very
beginning of a loss, such as thefuneral stuff and all of that,
that this is kind of a savinggrace for people when they're in
that stage unknowingly, becauseimagine if they were in the
anger stage, the depressionstage, right out the gate and
they're also trying to deal withall that as well.
(09:40):
So it is a very necessary stage.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, and that's why in all of the law and order,
svus and and they're like well,they're just not great, even
with us when we are interviewingpeople, tvs, interviewing a
husband that just lost theirwife, and they just don't seem
remorseful enough or whatever.
I mean sometimes they did killtheir wife, but yeah, but normal
(10:07):
, there's a lot of shock.
Malcolm Gladwell does a goodbit on this and I can't quote
which book it's out of right now, but they're all good and I
always think everybody shouldread every Malcolm Gladwell
thing that's out there and hetalks about that, how this is
not a type of behavior that canbe counted on as reliable
(10:30):
evidence.
I can't find that word, but yeahso anyway, I agree.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
And then there's anger.
It's a necessary stage of thehealing process.
Also, don't hold back.
Be willing to feel your anger,even if it may seem endless.
I feel like the more that youtruly feel it, the more it will
begin to dissipate and the morethat you will heal, because
under anger's pain, your painand it's natural to feel
deserted and abandoned, and notjust by your loved one, but by
(10:58):
your friends that after theservices have not shown up as
they were, because they wereprobably smothering you at first
, and now they're going back totheir normal lives, and so it's
normal to feel that way.
At first, grief feels likebeing lost at sea.
There's no connection toanything.
Then you get angry at someone.
It could be someone who didn'tattend the funeral, maybe it's
someone who isn't around anymore.
(11:19):
Maybe it's a person who'sdifferent now that your loved
one has died.
Maybe it's the loved one thatyou lost, you're angry, even
though it's not their fault,you're still angry that you
can't have them with you.
So we usually know more aboutsuppressing anger than feeling
it.
But the anger is just anotherindication of the intensity of
your love for that person.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And then bargaining.
Bargaining's an interesting one, right?
Because we don't necessarily dobargaining after we've lost
somebody.
Lots of times, bargaining showsup more when we're in the
process of losing them.
Please God, if you spare them.
I'll never be angry at my wifeagain.
I'll never, if you just let herlive.
But after a loss, bargainingcan take the form of a temporary
(12:03):
truce.
So if I devote the rest of mylife to helping other people.
Then I can wake up and realizethat this was all just a bad
dream.
So, we become lost and amazed ofthe if only and the what if
statements so, and we want lifereturned to what it was.
So we want our loved onerestored, we want to go back in
(12:24):
time.
We want to find the tumorsooner, recognize the illness
more quickly, stop the accidentfrom happening.
If only, if only.
So.
Guilt is often bargaining'slittle buddy, their little
companion, because the if onlyscause us to find fault in
ourselves of what we think wecould have done differently.
(12:45):
Gosh, that second guessing, youknow what I mean.
We may even bargain with thepain.
We'll do anything to not feelthe pain of the loss.
So, this can keep you reallyremaining in the past, trying to
negotiate our way out of thehurt.
So people often think of thestages as lasting weeks or
(13:07):
months.
That's pretty common.
I hear that a lot.
But they forget that the stagesare responses to feelings that
can last for minutes or hours aswe flip in and out of one
another.
So we don't enter and leaveeach individual stage, like we
said, in this linear fashion andit's not set on a set time of
(13:31):
days, weeks, months, years.
It can be moments.
And that's an important one toremember.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
And then there's depression.
Empty feelings presentthemselves and grief enters our
lives on a deeper level, deeperthan we ever imagined.
The suppressive state feels asthough it will last forever.
It's important to understandthat depression is not a sign of
mental illness, that it is anappropriate response to a great
loss as well.
Right, it's situational.
(13:58):
It's situational.
We do withdraw from life, leftin a fog of sadness, wondering
perhaps if there's any point ofgoing on alone.
Why go on at all?
Depression after a loss is toooften seen as unnatural a state
to be fixed, something to snapout of, and I used to hear that
(14:19):
a lot.
I feel like older generationsthat weren't really in tune with
their emotions and feelings.
I remember hearing that a lotfrom my great-grandfather would
say that the first question toask yourself is whether or not a
situation you're in is actuallydepressing.
The loss of a loved one is adepressing situation and
depression is a normal response.
(14:40):
So when a loss fully settles inyour soul, the realization that
your loved one didn't getbetter this time and is not
coming back is understandablydepressing.
If grief is a process ofhealing, then depression is one
of the many steps along the way.
And then, if you're going whereit's getting deep and you're
having, I wanna say, intrusivethoughts, that's when you do
(15:01):
need to see a counselor on that.
So I don't wanna put that plugin there for sure, Definitely.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And then the last is acceptance.
So it's often confused with thenotion of all right,
everything's good, it's all okaywith what happened.
And that's not reality.
Nobody that loses a child isever like I'm good with that.
I mean, that's not realistic somost people don't ever feel
okay or all right about the lossof a loved one.
(15:30):
We really have to redefine whatthat looks like.
It's really about accepting thereality that our loved one's
physically gone and recognizingthat this new reality is
permanent.
So, we don't have to like thenew reality, we're not gonna be
okay with it, but eventually weaccept it.
So we learn to live with it.
It's the new norm that we haveto learn to live with, so we
(15:53):
have to try to live in a worldwhere our loved one's missing.
In resisting this new norm, atfirst, many people wanna
maintain their life as it waswhen their loved one was with
them.
So.
But when we lose a loved one,whether we realize it or not at
the time, our lives will beforever changed, and we have to
(16:14):
readjust to that.
So we have to learn toreorganize our roles, reassign
them to others or take them onourselves.
That's hard, and so findingacceptance may really just be
like having a few more good daysthan you did before, a few more
good ones than bad, beginningto do things that you enjoy
(16:35):
again living your life againright, without feeling like
you're betraying your loved one.
That's past, yeah, so it andit's.
It's not replacing the timewith them, but it's allowing
yourself the space for makingnew connections and relationship
.
Mm-hmm oh instead of denyingyour feelings, we want to listen
(16:59):
to our needs.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So we move, we change , we grow, we evolve.
We have to do that so we startto reach out to others and
become involved in their lives,and then this is a biggie we
have to start investing in ourfriendships and in our
relationships again.
Yeah, so that this is when webegin to live again.
But we cannot do until we'vereally grieved.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
And out ourselves the time to grieve absolutely, and
there is something that Ilearned from my mentor when I
was doing the Greek coaching,like going through the Greek
coaching certification, but shesays to decide to say yes.
So the why and yes is yield,allow and receive.
So slow down and come into thepresent.
(17:43):
Don't allow past hurts to enter.
Pay attention to all that theuniverse has available to you.
Embrace is the E, so embracethe possibilities of your
potential, the possibilities ofyour future.
This is how we're talking aboutmoving forward.
This is where the impossiblebecomes possible.
So, no, you count and yourpoise for greatness.
And then the S is surrender.
(18:04):
So surrender to the outcome,letting go and trusting not
letting go of your love them,but letting go of that fear of
the unknown in your futuremoving forward.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So yeah, I love that.
Yes, so yes yes.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
We're gonna also talk a little bit about the five
pitfalls of grief too.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yes, yes.
So anxiety and stress, oh so,in a lot of cases, anxiety and
stress experience is due to theanticipation and fear of your
future without your loved one.
I'll just saw something thatlike the other day about I don't
think we talk enough.
(18:44):
Maybe you and I were talkingabout this, I don't even know.
I don't think we talk enoughabout the anticipation of the
grief of losing our loved onesas our parents age.
Yeah, so that for me feels real.
But so anyway, although thepain and absence you might feel
(19:04):
as natural and normal, focusingonly on these feelings can
create a lot of anxiety andstress for people.
So the mind, the spirit, thebody, people, it all works
together.
So the broken heart, if it'snot addressed, can kind of like
wreak havoc on the rest of yourbody.
So allow the pain and hurt outso you can make room to receive
(19:27):
your hope, love and gratitude.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, absolutely and you're talking about you know
the fear, an anxiety.
I have a friend that she.
We just spoke the other day andshe mentioned like that her
anxiety is now in play.
She lost her son a couplemonths back and her anxiety now
is, you know, worry about hertwo daughters, like losing them.
(19:50):
And so how you're talking aboutlosing your mom now she's, you
know, has anxiety about losingher two girls.
So that's something that youjust don't really think about
until you're in that.
You know that position andthere's also guilt and regret.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So mom is really healthy, by the way.
He says super, super healthy,healthy woman.
She is right, and so this is acompletely unfounded anxiety For
myself, because she's alwaysbeen my person right.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So guilt and regret.
There are two more difficultemotions to overcome our guilt
and regret.
So getting beyond this shouldhave it only I had, I ought to
have, why didn't I?
Takes time, patience and work.
So whether these thoughts arerational or not, the feelings
are very real and must beacknowledged and released.
So beating up or blamingyourself for something you did
(20:46):
or didn't do or somethingsomeone else did or didn't do,
can cause you great mental andphysical harm as well.
So that so grief work isnecessary to work through the
emotions of loss, and I highlyrecommend not ignoring Emotions
of guilt and regret.
So if you find that you can'tget beyond these feelings, seek
a professional counselor,therapist, greed coach to help
you.
You know, as you travel yourgrief journey, be patient and
(21:10):
kind with yourself.
We're gonna say that abouteverything in life.
We just need to be patient andkind with ourself.
You know, if you, for example,if you had a broken leg, you
would probably have to go to adoctor and you know you would
probably need to cast a helpmend it right.
So time and patience help healand restore Physical therapy to
strengthen it.
Likewise, your broken heartrequires the process of
(21:31):
acknowledging the pain,accepting the loss and taking
action to move forward in yourlife.
So you must take action to movebeyond these two potentially
devastating emotions.
So talking to someone, either anon-judgmental friend or a
professional, or even journaling, are great means of releasing
that guilt, regret and evenanger too.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, so and I want to talk out for a second
about family traditions.
Yeah, losing a loved one canmake you feel like all the
family time and traditions thatyou once experienced no longer
matter or they don't.
Yeah, they feel kind of empty,especially the first year.
The first year is always reallyhard because you have all those
first, first yeah.
(22:10):
Yeah, so don't overwhelm yourplate.
Limit the number of commitmentsthat you make.
So let family members know thatyou're not sure if you'll be
attending.
It's okay to say no toinvitations.
I think sometimes we getworried if we say no or to now,
don't over, like I'm not outsideof isolating to an unhealthy
(22:30):
degree, right, right, butsometimes we really do need to.
It's not called isolating, Icall it hibernating.
Yeah, sometimes we really doneed a little hibernation period
and that is OK.
It will not last forever.
You will come out of it andfeel ready to reengage.
So it's all right to say no toinvitations.
(22:52):
You can just participate asmuch or as little as you feel
like you want to.
You know, yeah, don't be afraidto acknowledge the elephant in
the room.
Others may not feel comfortablementioning the disease for fear
of upsetting you.
So it's OK to bring it up.
And, yeah, and talk about it.
On me, yeah, find creative waysto blend old family traditions
(23:14):
with new ones.
I like that.
So have a memorial tribute inmemory of your loved one at the
event.
Have like a photo, acandlelighting, something like
that.
That feels like you're honoringthem.
So, and overall, it's yourjourney.
So don't do activities thatcause you anxiety or stress.
(23:35):
Do as much or as little as youfeel like.
Honors where you are right now,especially in this first year.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, I don't feel like telling your family members
that you don't want to go tocertain things is irrational.
I mean, if your family isanything like mine, we have all
these different Christmas eventsthat we do, and it's OK to not
go to two of them, like there's50 of them.
So take on what you can take onmentally for sure.
And then also the fear of thefuture.
(24:06):
So it's quite common to fearthe unknown.
As this is all new to you, mygrief mentor, dora Carpenter of
the Institute of ProfessionalGrief Coaching, recommends us.
It reminds us that fear andfaith can't live in the same
house.
So you must choose one or theother.
So fear of life without yourloved one can be overwhelming.
The loss of a loved one cancreate fear due to new
(24:28):
responsibilities, loss of income, security, emotional support,
companionship, faith,self-esteem, sense of belonging,
just to name a few.
But it's understandable, asyour hopes, dreams and
expectations for the future havebeen shattered.
Fear itself is not to be feared.
Everyone has it, and as long asyou continue to grow, you will
(24:50):
experience fear.
However, if not dealt with, itcan paralyze you.
So in order to move forward,you must do the grief work to
transfer that fear, that doubt,that worry and uncertainty into
confidence, power, peace andlove.
So look for and open your heartto receiving the beauty,
miracles and joy and all thepossibilities of your new life
going forward, because there aregoing to be some joyous times
(25:11):
ahead.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
OK, so here's an alarming statistic that I
learned 2% of unresolved griefcan affect every area of the
body.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Oh yeah, Because you make yourself physically sick
and everything else.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
So yeah, not surprising, and we've talked
before.
Trauma lives in the body.
So one thing we want to stressover and over is that no one can
tell you how to grieve.
There's no right or wrong way.
Nobody wrote the rule book, ok.
So when people are trying to behelpful, they can really say
the wrong things, and you shouldbe over it by now.
Your mom died five years ago.
You're young.
Find another spouse.
(25:48):
You have three other children.
Stop going to the cemeteryevery day.
And what's interesting is, myclient just today was saying how
she has so many people sayingyou had so many good years with
her, and I said we talked aboutthis and I mean, yes, you did
(26:09):
have so many good years with her.
But one of the things that'simportant is that I think is
important is that what thosepeople are doing is really that
it's A everybody's uncomfortabletalking about it.
B they're ultimately, in mostcases, trying to be helpful and
don't know how to do it.
So offering some grace topeople when they're saying the
(26:33):
wrong things is important too,because they really are just
trying to figure out how to bereassuring, and this isn't
something people talk about alot, so we're not really
well-versed in how to be mosthelpful.
So I was saying to my clienttoday just say that might be
true, but I'm not there yet.
(26:54):
Like you can come back withthings like that to honor where
you are If somebody sayssomething that feels that it's
not being very understanding ofwhere you are in the process
Because no one knows the exactrelationship you have with your
loved one.
They can't possibly understandhow you feel so and people will
(27:16):
say it just takes time.
So that's true, it does taketime and it takes a lot of
effort and being reallyintentional about trying to work
through your grief, not rushingit, just intentionally tending
to it.
So, and if you need to sort ofturn inward and say I'm strong,
(27:37):
I can handle it myself.
Some people can Like this isnot, some people absolutely can
but the pain and loss and theprocess of moving forward can be
overwhelming and it can bedifficult to walk alone.
So not that everybody needs avillage to walk it, but most
(27:58):
people do need at least oneperson.
Oh, yeah for sure.
So accepting some help alongthe way.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I think is really important.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, so it's going to.
Your new life is going to moveforward and it's going to be
meaningful, but you have toallow it and be open to receive
that.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, and for me, I couldn't do it alone.
I was dealing with multiplelosses in a short time frame and
it sent me over that edge whereI was like I can't do it, not
by myself.
So that's when I found grief,coaching and I worked a program.
I was able to see what my newlife was without my loved ones,
(28:38):
how to move forward in a way,not only to celebrate the love
that I still have for them, butalso to show myself that I'm
worthy of having a great lifestill.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
We'll always grieve our loved ones.
We grieve because we love themso much.
But with time and effort we canmanage that grief and
understand our feelings so thatwhen those waves of grief hit us
, we're able to use the toolsthat we've learned to keep us on
track with what we've created.
I also want to say that ifyou're feeling unresolved trauma
that's associated with a lovedone, seeking out a therapist is
(29:11):
also important.
Counselors and coaches are ableto work together.
The counselors tackle that pasttrauma and grief.
Coaches can guide you forwardon life after loss.
So if you're having someunresolved trauma, please seek
out a therapist, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, I had heard I don't remember what celebrity it
was somebody talking about theloss of their mother and they
said that they really just sortof butcher this quote, but they
just fold into the grief andthey actually enjoy it because
this person was so meaningful tothem.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
It was Andrew Garfield, was that who it was?
From Spider-Man, andrewGarfield.
Is that his name?
Yes, yeah, from Spider-Man, Ithink it was him, was that?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
about his mother, mm-hmm, yeah, and I thought that
was really beautiful way tokind of reframe that, that he's
able to go wow.
I feel this sadness because shewas so amazing and wonderful
and impactful.
So now that I've butchered it,everybody just YouTube that and
(30:11):
watch it, because it's much morebeautiful when it comes out of
his mouth it is.
All right, anything you want toadd today?
I think that's it.
Yeah, I just know it's reallyhard.
So anybody out here there who'sstruggling with it you know
you're not alone reach out, talkabout it and just be soft with
(30:32):
yourself, for sure, AbsolutelyOkay.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Well, we do have an answer answered.
It's from Tim and Tulsa.
He says hi, Kathy and Jess.
I have always dreamed ofworking in New York and have
finally and finally had thatopportunity.
However, the closer it gets tomy move date, the more anxious
and overwhelmed I become, to thepoint I second guess myself any
advice on how to get off thisemotional roller coaster.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
So some logistical advice is tell yourself that
once you're there, if after ayear it's not going to work, you
can move back to Tulsa.
I, as somebody who absolutelyadores New York City, I'm going
to tell you you're not going towant to move back to Tulsa.
So let me reassure you rightnow that that's probably not
going to happen.
You know, but just because yougo there doesn't mean that you
(31:21):
can't go back.
You could go home, yeah, so Ithink just knowing that and
putting a timeline on it reallyhelps to dissipate some of that
sort of anticipatory anxietythat we experience.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then also it says thatyou're going to New York to work
, so obviously you have a jobopportunity that someone saw
that you would be able to dothat job, so they've offered you
that.
You know that that job, so youobviously know what you're doing
.
So right that you know like youobviously went through that
process and then you have theskills that it takes to do the
(31:55):
job that you're moving there for.
So you know, kudos to you.
Don't don't let that stop youfrom you know, from being
overwhelmed.
You know the overwhelmingnessof moving as scary, but just
know that you've got what ittakes in the job field.
If you're worried about meetingpeople and things, there's so
much networking in New York andthere's so many places to go and
(32:16):
things to do that I feel likeyou'll have a great opportunity
to network and meet new peoplethere.
So don't worry on that as well.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes it's just good tostart also getting online and
looking at things that you'reexcited to do ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, game planning some things that you're looking
forward to yeah absolutely, andthen you know if you're going to
be feeling homesick yourfriends and family can visit.
They don't want to go see, youknow.
Go to New York, so that's agreat opportunity for your
family to see you too, so yeah,it's going to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
It is, you can do it.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Tim Yay.
All right, well, thank you toour listeners for joining us
today.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please leave us a
review on Apple Podcast.
This will help us move up thechart and be more accessible to
new listeners.
You can also follow us onInstagram, and Facebook will
drop tips and information aboutupcoming episodes.
If you have a question for ourAsk the Answered segment, email
(33:13):
us ataskusatspillingthetheritycom.
Don't forget to check out ournew website,
spillingthetheritycom.
We'll continue to add resourcesand information there as well.
I hope everyone has a greatweekend.
We are your hosts, kathy DanMoore and Jess Lip.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And join us next time , where we're going to be
talking a little more in depthabout infidelity and a fair
recovery.
We'll be breaking it down onesip at a time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.