My guest in this episode is Vladyslav Sushko, the co-owner of the brave Ukrainian exporter Hybro Technologies, an innovating heating system producer, that survived twice during the russian invasion to Ukraine and relocated production first in 2014 and again in 2022.
The story of their international expansion and future plans despite of the war.
We will talk about:
- What is the most important to start going global?
- What main obstacles do exporters meet at their way?
- What is important to do when you start building your relationship with international B2B clients?
- Why it is important to study new entry markets before you go there?
- What is in common with music and client experience?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Start Global Insights, the podcast for businesses looking to expand globally.
(00:10):
On this show, we interview experts from different countries to get insights about local business
culture and help you to enter new global markets.
Today we will have as a guest Vladyslav Sushko.
He is a co-founder and director of HYBRO Technologies.
(00:30):
This is a Ukrainian company and we will hear today a case of one exporter that has managed
to sell the equipment globally.
And HYBRA creates innovative climate equipment with perfect design and unique functionality
and successfully sells it around the world.
Hi Vladislav.
(00:50):
Hi Victor.
Could you tell me about yourself a bit and about the background of the company, the story,
how it appeared and how it develops now?
Hi everyone.
I am a director and co-founder of HYBRA.
But at the start, I was only a small dealer of this company.
And the company was situated in the east part of Ukraine, it's Lugansk city.
(01:16):
And I was in Chugas, it's central part of Ukraine.
In that period, I was looking for new product in the heating system because I had a company
with service with heating system.
But my thoughts was about a product because I can grow up faster when it's a product.
(01:38):
And first of all, I can't buy export when it's a product because when it's a service,
it's more difficult.
So you initially wanted to find such a solution that could be exported.
Yes.
And I found the HYBRA company, just created a new product, the ceramic HYBRA panels.
They are patented and it was something new on this market.
(01:59):
Absolutely.
And that's why I decided to start work with this company to be a dealer in my region.
But it was two ways to me how to develop my business.
And first one was, okay, I will be one of the maybe 10 or 15 dealers in the Ukraine
market.
(02:20):
Maybe I will be in top three, maybe.
But I will be always compared with all these dealers in the east part of Ukraine, west
part of Ukraine, south part, etc.
And another way, I could be the first one who will be export this product to other countries.
I mean, at that time, when some one of these dealers will be grow up in the national market,
(02:46):
I will be grow up in the other markets, in Europe countries and other.
That's why I'm always thought about this idea.
It was very important for me to be the first in somewhere because I have unique product
and it should be work.
So you have worked already in this field of heating equipment.
(03:07):
Everything that existed in the market was familiar to you.
And you said that this was something unique.
Why this product was unique?
What have you found in it that you saw that it would be great idea to sell it in Ukraine
and abroad?
It's very simple.
On that period, 10 years ago, the main heating system was central heating system in cities
(03:32):
or it was gas heating system.
And that's all.
It was too difficult to installation.
It was too difficult to manage.
It was very bad quality of heating and everything.
And this product was simple installation, with great design, with easy manage, with
no service during the whole period of the work, with energy efficiency function.
(03:55):
It was something unique and believable.
So it really was.
It's really great product.
That's why on the other markets in Europe, also with situations the same, approximately.
Gas system, coal, even water heating system was like a dominate on the market.
That's why this simple device was unique for the whole market.
(04:19):
And I understand that.
And in the same period, I received email from a company from Lithuania.
His name was Anatolius.
He was the owner of this company.
And he wrote me, I want to buy this product.
Can you supply to Lithuania?
And can we talk in Skype?
So he just found you on the internet.
Yes, he found in internet, but he had a sister in Ukraine and his sister bought our product.
(04:47):
And that's how he just find out us.
So he did not just saw your product on the internet, but he also tried your product and
saw the physical reality.
Yeah.
In Ukraine, when he was in his sister here in Ukraine.
But there was a funny story how he found me, my company.
I wasn't like main company.
(05:08):
I was one of the auto dealers, maybe 15 dealers in that period.
And the answer was very simple.
On the main page website of the main company on the website, there was links on the website
to the whole dealers.
And my company was the one who had Skype address.
So you were the only one who gave the contacts to contact you.
(05:31):
Yes.
It was very important to him in that period.
Skype, it was like great communication to see person.
It was important for you.
Yes.
When you want to start work with company.
And that's why he just contacted with me.
Yeah.
It was really funny.
But before, I had no experience with an expert.
(05:51):
Absolutely.
I had no idea who is a broker.
What is the declaration?
What is account, bank account in another currency, for example?
Everything, everything, everything.
I have no idea about expert.
And by the way, no one in my area hadn't experienced an expert.
I mean, no support in at all.
(06:12):
But my answer was, yes, I can.
So this is a brave entrepreneurial mind.
Yes, I can.
Sure.
I can because I want it.
I mean, if you will ask me some recommendation to someone, how should start?
I don't know how you should start.
My answer was, yes, I can.
I don't know what is marketing analysis, what is marketing research, what is Lithuania,
(06:35):
where is Lithuania.
My English was terrible.
My English not so good now, but it was terrible.
And my answer was, yes, I can.
My idea was I should do it.
My profit should be not minus.
If it will be zero, it will be perfect because experience is very important for me.
My profit was 1000 euro.
(06:58):
It was good because it was only first applying.
It wasn't a lot of amount, you know, yes, because it's like a first one.
1000 euros was not bad.
In fact, it was above expectations.
If you expected a zero profit, then you got a thousand euro.
Then it was something very good for you.
In fact, you have used this opportunity to research the market.
(07:19):
That was not like the sales target, but more like market research through this delivery,
through getting this experience, understanding how to export, how to deal with foreign clients,
etc.
Yes, sure.
I mean, it was accreditation.
My company has a customer service.
It was bank accounts, contract invoice, whole information.
(07:39):
Yes, it was very important.
It was more important than profit.
It was more important at that time.
Then, okay, it's working for me.
It's good.
I can do it.
If it works with Lithuania, it could work with Poland, with Hungary, with Moldova and
other countries.
Yes, it's good.
Then another company from Moldova also had contact with me.
(08:00):
And after a couple of supplying to other countries, Central Company that was situated in Lugansk
decided whole request from other countries that I want to import our product, sent to
me.
And then, the company from one regional dealer became exclusive exporter of trademark hire.
So, in fact, all the first contacts that you've got from different countries were inbound
(08:25):
contacts.
Yes, it was not active.
It was passive.
And it's very important because it's too difficult to make first step.
It's too difficult.
And to react for the request, it's more simple.
It's really helped me to start in this business in export.
Did you ask your clients how they found you and why they have selected you among all that
(08:49):
they found on the Internet?
You know the story with the first one.
The second one was I started to work with the Chamber of Commerce.
Ukrainian.
Ukrainian Chamber of Commerce, yes.
And it also helped me to find partners because when someone wants to work with Ukrainian
companies, he just goes to this shortlist on Chamber of Commerce and they try to work
(09:10):
with this company first of all.
Then in 2014, when the war was started in Ukraine, the company from Lugansk came to
Cherkasy to me because I was a strong dealer in that period because I'm selling to export
and also in the central region, also in Ukraine, also market was important for me.
And when Ilya, the founder of the company, came to Cherkasy, we created a new company.
(09:34):
Also we opened a company in Poland and we were like co-founders, co-owners of Hosis
trademark.
Then in this period I have my friend, he also had a business but another sphere.
He is selling some equipment for meat factory.
And when we, he also was from Lugansk and he came to Chernitsy, the west part of Ukraine
(09:54):
after the war.
And during our conversation he asked me, what do you do?
What about your business?
And my answer was I do export.
It was something unbelievable for him.
How as an expert is difficult.
Let's work together.
Let's do it together.
No problem.
Okay, let's do it together.
I give him 50% of the company because for me it's better to lose something with a clever
(10:20):
man than to find something with a stupid.
That's why, okay, no problem.
Let's do it.
And we just opened the export office in Chernitsy city, where he was.
We invite sales managers.
Actually it was not sales managers.
It was people who knew languages because it was simple to find the man who knew languages
(10:45):
or to learn languages with people who can sell it.
First of all it was Romanian, English, German.
Then it was Polish and French.
And we start.
Our idea was very simple.
The main question is who we are.
We are exclusive exporters of this unique product.
Okay, great.
To whom we can sell this product?
(11:06):
We could find the company who already selling hidden equipment on their market in Hungary,
in Slovakia, in Poland, etc.
And only because we have a unique product, it should be interesting for them.
We could have a contact with them to sell them.
It's look very simple, yeah?
Like idea.
Couple samples.
I mean we should call them, then presentations, then we'll set price, then samples, and then
(11:32):
we could start work.
And our sales managers start to call to different companies in different countries.
And we just started to send samples.
A lot of samples to a lot of companies.
United Kingdom, Germany, Poland, Hungary.
A lot of samples.
Some samples we just supply by free.
It was a big mistake.
(11:52):
It was a big mistake because attention was very bad.
If you get something free, it's not interesting for you.
But some samples it was with a little margin, but it was by money, it was with contract.
Even if it's a couple samples, it should be contract with international, average customer
and others.
And all these companies, they told us, look, if you want a big contract, please come to
(12:16):
us.
So the physical presence is important, yes?
To see each other in physical world.
Yes, it's very important.
It's very important if you really want a great contract.
If you really want a great business, work with some company, yes, it's very important.
Especially because we are from Ukraine.
(12:36):
Because for example, if your product is very good, but you are from Ukraine, it's not good
like offer for them.
What was the main risk that your potential clients were talking about?
First of all, it's bad experience with Ukrainian businessmen.
It's first of all.
That's why personal meeting was very important.
(12:56):
Second one, it's because tax.
We are not in the European Union and they should pay tax when they just get this product,
not when they just sell to end users.
It's also very important.
But first of all, it was a bad experience.
That's why we should come to our partners, see this partner and have business negotiation.
(13:17):
It's very important.
This is more about building the trust and then you start discussing the potential of
the market and sales, etc.
Yes, that's about it.
And we start thinking about, okay, let's go.
Let's go to our partners.
It was 2015.
We should have a visa.
(13:38):
It was not so simple to go.
And our first business trip was to Slovakia, Hungary and Poland.
Three countries, five companies.
It was one week, five days.
One day, one company.
So all the meetings that you had in these countries, you agreed before?
Yes, we had a contract with them.
(13:58):
Some companies already had our samples, some not.
But we have a call.
This company knows about our product, our price, our conditions, everything.
And here we go.
We could come to you, make a presentation, see you with you and everything.
Yes, it was important.
It was our first business trip.
(14:19):
After our business trip, yes, our amount grew up.
I mean, this company started buying much more quantity of our pieces.
Just understand how the visit was.
So you came to the company that you have contacted only via Skype or the internet before.
And then you met and you just discussed business issues.
(14:40):
That's it?
Yes, it was very important for us to make our relationship more warm.
And that's why we are using everything that we can to do that.
Basically it wasn't difficult because we are people no different from Ukraine, Poland,
Hungary.
(15:01):
And when we came, we were guests in their country.
And they also want to meet with us after business negotiation in their office.
And they also wanted to show us the city, maybe the country, maybe some national food.
I usually say that there are a lot of distributors at some markets.
(15:24):
There are a lot of suppliers.
All suppliers are more or less similar and distributors as well.
So they have similar products, they have similar coverage.
And the final choice of a cooperation partner is based not on the product or business, but
it is based on personal relationships.
(15:46):
So if the people like each other, then it is much more probable that they will make
business together.
Sure.
That's why we were a small company.
Yeah, we had a great product.
But this personal meeting, first of all, to have great people-to-people experience.
That's why we always came with some present from Ukraine.
(16:12):
Our mistake was when we came to Ukraine, we stopped to keep contact with this person because
it was a lot of company.
And okay, I mean, I and Alex, my business partner, yes, and we came with him to these
companies.
When we came to Ukraine, our sales specialist continued to work with this person, continuing
(16:36):
working with them.
And very often they just lose this chance because we just developed this relationship.
And then it was our mistake.
The best way, and we also did it, take your sales manager on a business trip.
This is the best way.
You came to a business trip with your sales manager, they also have some contact.
(16:57):
And then he keeps going to work with this person and you just make a strategy in your
business and so on.
This is the best way.
What is the current result?
How many countries and where do you sell your product?
During five years, since 2015, I was in 30 countries in the world.
30.
(17:17):
30 countries?
Yeah.
In some countries, for example, Poland or some countries in East Europe, I was maybe
10 times.
Krakow is like my own city.
Krakow, I know everything in Krakow.
We have companies there, yes.
And how our business trip goes through Poland or through Slovakia.
(17:40):
Some of our dealers, they came to Ukraine and it's also very important.
From Israel, from the Netherlands, it's always very important.
Now I'm trying, even when it's my contact and even I found this person, I found this
company, for example, I have experienced how I worked with the embassy of Ukraine, with
(18:00):
the whole European countries, yes, when it's my result.
But I don't have time to work with them.
Trying to meet with my sales manager and keep contact with this person.
But time to time, more information, more lettering, more connection, my manager with this company.
(18:22):
But I'm also near.
I'm also near always.
I could write him in WhatsApp.
I could say hello.
How are you?
What about our condition?
What your conversation with my sales manager?
And etc., etc., etc.
I don't forget about this partner for now because it was a really big mistake.
It's really hard.
(18:42):
Do you support your foreign partners with marketing activities?
Do you send them some materials or make brand awareness at the local market, participate
in exhibitions?
For us, our trademark is very important.
We are the company who created this product.
And it's very important how this product will be representative on their market.
(19:07):
And that's why we should support them, we should tell them how you should represent
our product.
Here is our brand book.
Here is our colors.
Here is our information.
Here is our name of our brand.
And you should call our product only like this one, but not like this one.
It's like the right name of our brand company.
(19:29):
That is why we just send all information leaflets, brochures, even instructions on how you should
talk with your customers and users.
What is a popular question?
What about our technology?
And we have this special book in different languages for different countries, from Middle
(19:49):
East and Arabic language for most European countries and English language.
And we wrote, here is about this, here is about this.
Your reaction on this question, your reaction on this question.
It's very important.
Yes.
What about the exhibition?
It's also what about the stand?
What about the view of the stand?
Our designers should work with this company always.
(20:12):
How it should be.
Yes, it's really important to support them.
If you have some idea, and for example, this idea, really great work in one of the countries.
Okay, let's just try to implement this idea in another countries.
Maybe it's also we'll be working with this country.
It's also good.
Let's have some negotiation.
(20:33):
So please tell us what about your experience in your market.
And we just could talking about this, find the new idea, create and yeah, it's very important.
Do you analyze your consumer, your final client?
Because as far as I understand, you are selling through dealers or through companies that
install this equipment in their countries.
But these are not direct sales to the consumers that are using your equipment.
(20:57):
How do you get the information?
What do your consumers like, prefer what they are looking for, if the design will work in
this country or not?
Should you change something like color, form or packaging?
Is it told to you by your partners or you are doing the research by yourself?
(21:20):
For now, we can get this information only when we have a discussion with our partners.
But we had some experience if we had a contact with our client, for example, if someone from
Netherlands wrote to our company, yes, write to our company and, okay, I want to buy a
(21:41):
product, we will send to our partners, please, this is our official distributor in this region.
Then we can write something to our client, how it was service, how it was a product.
It could be.
Maybe it's not often, but yes, it's very important when we have a conversation with our dealers,
(22:02):
our distributors, what we can do better that your selling was much more than now.
What should it be?
Yes, it maybe should be another size.
For example, in one of the markets, they have a whole window.
And that's why we should create new products special for this market, special for this
(22:25):
renovation program that they have in either one.
Okay, we do this, we create new products special for our clients.
And it's also very important.
So to sell in other markets, you need to be flexible and be ready to adapt your product
according to the client's needs.
Yes, but not all recommendations our end users write, not all.
(22:47):
In our case, for example, all our customers ask us, please do legs in your heater and
we answer the legs, it's terrible.
It's not either a heating system.
Forget about the legs.
It's not effective.
It could be just broke and everything.
Not all.
Yes, you have smart recommendation and we should do it.
(23:07):
We should be flexible.
Yes.
But it's like music, you know, it shouldn't be pop music.
It should be some fine, great music.
Yes, your recommendation is good, but in this case, please stop.
How would you describe the obstacles?
What were the main obstacles at your way to export?
(23:30):
First of all, it's about soft skills.
It's about your mind.
It's about your decision.
It's about it.
It's first of all.
But when we talked about some real obstacles, it's when we talked about the business in
Ukraine and export from Ukraine, we should have a company in Europe Union, for example,
(23:51):
when we want to export in this region.
And it's not only because of the tax, but it's very important.
But it's because delivery time of delivery is because banks in the same union currency
and everything.
Yes.
So not only the legal body, but also the warehouse.
Sure.
Yes.
And when we just started to work with friends, it was like a telling a lie for us, this country.
(24:17):
We had no experience, no information, no support, no everything.
And the result was not good because we didn't do any marketing analysis, any marketing research.
We just decided that if it works with Poland, it will work with France.
And it was a mistake.
(24:37):
When you grow up, when you develop your business time to time, you start to understand that
it should be you should do your homework.
You should do your homework.
It was a funny story when we tried to work with Ireland, Dublin, Ireland, Dublin, only
because people in this country speak English and we had a sales specialist in English.
(25:02):
Only because of that.
And we found the partners there and we supply first amount and couple pallets of our product
and then we decided let's go to them, meet with them and say hello.
Let's just do much more sales in your country, what we need to support you and that's it.
(25:22):
But we was in the airport in Dublin.
The lady on the customer service asked us, okay, guys, do you have a visa?
Sure, we have.
We was in different countries in Europe and the other, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
No, no, Ireland isn't in Schengen.
(25:44):
It was very stupid situation.
We even don't go to Wikipedia, Ireland, where is it?
What is the country?
What about population?
Visa or not visa?
And by the way, we just invite our partner from Great Britain.
He also arrived to Ireland.
He was in the enter of the airport with our samples, very heavy, 10 kilograms weight.
(26:08):
We was with our laptops, with our baggage, with everything.
And we understand that we should go back.
And then this lady on the customer officer, she asked, do you have the name of the company
which you want to meet in our country?
Yes, sure we have.
Yes, sure we have.
Do you have booked your hotel?
Yes, sure we have.
(26:29):
We even have booked the car, rent of the car.
Okay, give me five minutes.
After five minutes, they gave visa for five days.
Amazing.
It was amazing experience, but we should do a homework.
And maybe, but another way of situation, maybe if before we just, okay, Ireland, okay, we
(26:55):
should run a visa.
Too difficult.
Okay, forget about Ireland.
Let's work with maybe, you know what I'm talking about?
Maybe, maybe small company, maybe small company.
Maybe you should do some, maybe you should be flexible.
Maybe you should do these mistakes.
Interesting experience.
So this is again the entrepreneurial mind, yes, to jump into the fire and then to decide
(27:20):
how you will deal with that.
We start from this, we start exporting with this principle, yes.
And maybe it's for some time, maybe it's very important.
Well, then you also, you should do homework because you could spend a lot of money and
you could spend a lot of time, a lot of time, not only your time, but you could spend time
(27:42):
of your sales specialist.
It's also important because it's responsibility for them also, it's responsibility for the
trademark, for your distributors.
And when you grow up, when you develop your business, you can do these mistakes, but when
you start, you can't do it.
It's like short period when you can be brave, when it could be rock and roll and the business,
(28:05):
maybe you could try it.
Okay.
We are running out of time already.
Maybe the last question to you.
What are your plans for future in terms of international markets?
First of all, our plans is work with our dealers deeply.
In the countries where we already have our partners, our strategy is work deeply, help
(28:29):
them to grow their business in their country with different types of clients, with governments,
with distributors, build distributors network, make some popularization of trademark and
etc. etc.
Because on the start of our business, our vision was let's just work everywhere with
(28:50):
everyone and then we will see.
Now our vision is work very deeply with our partners.
So to focus on those countries where you are already present.
Yeah, it's very important.
Now we just think that some companies that we need, some distributors that we need in
this country, it's like a castle and we should enter in this castle.
(29:14):
Maybe if we need to spend a lot of time for this, let it be.
If we really know that it's really very important for our company, it's really great market
for us because we had a marketing analysis before and everything, everything, everything.
That is our strategy for now.
And only because we are a company who not only selling but creating new product.
(29:37):
For us, very important to create something new, not work with only one product.
It's also important for our dealers.
What would you advise to other exporters?
Give them a tip how to expand internationally.
During my experience, I had a lot of meetings in the Chamber of Commerce, in some business
(29:58):
trainings and in some in the embassy, for example.
And I met with people who really had a great business in Ukraine and they wanted to sell
to another countries.
But they just talked about that.
They just tell me why they can't.
(30:20):
You know, oh, we can't because we have no sound certificate.
Oh, we can because we have no partner.
Oh, we can because because because because because.
And there is a main reason and my recommendation, you should decide it.
Yes, it will be a lot of work.
Yes, you should be, you should do a lot of work.
You should meet with new people.
(30:42):
You should you should have new knowledge about how it's working.
So but you should decide it here and now.
And for this decision, you shouldn't have any other information.
It's only about you and about your business, about your vision, about you decide only about
this.
And my recommendation, please don't lie to yourself.
(31:04):
Don't lie.
If you really want, just say, OK, I'm ready.
Let's go.
Thank you, Vladislav, for such an interesting story and conversation.
Thank you for being with me at the show.
Yeah, thank you to you.
You do a great job.
If I could listen to your podcast 10 years ago, it really could help me.
(31:24):
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I hope to see you on the shelves of all DIY supermarkets in Europe.
Good luck.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Start Global Insights, the podcast for businesses looking to expand globally.
(00:10):
On this show, we interview experts from different countries to get insights about local business
culture and help you to enter new global markets.
Today we will have as a guest Vladyslav Sushko.
He is a co-founder and director of HYBRO Technologies.
(00:30):
This is a Ukrainian company and we will hear today a case of one exporter that has managed
to sell the equipment globally.
And HYBRA creates innovative climate equipment with perfect design and unique functionality
and successfully sells it around the world.
Hi Vladislav.
(00:50):
Hi Victor.
Could you tell me about yourself a bit and about the background of the company, the story,
how it appeared and how it develops now?
Hi everyone.
I am a director and co-founder of HYBRA.
But at the start, I was only a small dealer of this company.
And the company was situated in the east part of Ukraine, it's Lugansk city.
(01:16):
And I was in Chugas, it's central part of Ukraine.
In that period, I was looking for new product in the heating system because I had a company
with service with heating system.
But my thoughts was about a product because I can grow up faster when it's a product.
(01:38):
And first of all, I can't buy export when it's a product because when it's a service,
it's more difficult.
So you initially wanted to find such a solution that could be exported.
Yes.
And I found the HYBRA company, just created a new product, the ceramic HYBRA panels.
They are patented and it was something new on this market.
(01:59):
Absolutely.
And that's why I decided to start work with this company to be a dealer in my region.
But it was two ways to me how to develop my business.
And first one was, okay, I will be one of the maybe 10 or 15 dealers in the Ukraine
market.
(02:20):
Maybe I will be in top three, maybe.
But I will be always compared with all these dealers in the east part of Ukraine, west
part of Ukraine, south part, etc.
And another way, I could be the first one who will be export this product to other countries.
I mean, at that time, when some one of these dealers will be grow up in the national market,
(02:46):
I will be grow up in the other markets, in Europe countries and other.
That's why I'm always thought about this idea.
It was very important for me to be the first in somewhere because I have unique product
and it should be work.
So you have worked already in this field of heating equipment.
(03:07):
Everything that existed in the market was familiar to you.
And you said that this was something unique.
Why this product was unique?
What have you found in it that you saw that it would be great idea to sell it in Ukraine
and abroad?
It's very simple.
On that period, 10 years ago, the main heating system was central heating system in cities
(03:32):
or it was gas heating system.
And that's all.
It was too difficult to installation.
It was too difficult to manage.
It was very bad quality of heating and everything.
And this product was simple installation, with great design, with easy manage, with
no service during the whole period of the work, with energy efficiency function.
(03:55):
It was something unique and believable.
So it really was.
It's really great product.
That's why on the other markets in Europe, also with situations the same, approximately.
Gas system, coal, even water heating system was like a dominate on the market.
That's why this simple device was unique for the whole market.
(04:19):
And I understand that.
And in the same period, I received email from a company from Lithuania.
His name was Anatolius.
He was the owner of this company.
And he wrote me, I want to buy this product.
Can you supply to Lithuania?
And can we talk in Skype?
So he just found you on the internet.
Yes, he found in internet, but he had a sister in Ukraine and his sister bought our product.
(04:47):
And that's how he just find out us.
So he did not just saw your product on the internet, but he also tried your product and
saw the physical reality.
Yeah.
In Ukraine, when he was in his sister here in Ukraine.
But there was a funny story how he found me, my company.
I wasn't like main company.
(05:08):
I was one of the auto dealers, maybe 15 dealers in that period.
And the answer was very simple.
On the main page website of the main company on the website, there was links on the website
to the whole dealers.
And my company was the one who had Skype address.
So you were the only one who gave the contacts to contact you.
(05:31):
Yes.
It was very important to him in that period.
Skype, it was like great communication to see person.
It was important for you.
Yes.
When you want to start work with company.
And that's why he just contacted with me.
Yeah.
It was really funny.
But before, I had no experience with an expert.
(05:51):
Absolutely.
I had no idea who is a broker.
What is the declaration?
What is account, bank account in another currency, for example?
Everything, everything, everything.
I have no idea about expert.
And by the way, no one in my area hadn't experienced an expert.
I mean, no support in at all.
(06:12):
But my answer was, yes, I can.
So this is a brave entrepreneurial mind.
Yes, I can.
Sure.
I can because I want it.
I mean, if you will ask me some recommendation to someone, how should start?
I don't know how you should start.
My answer was, yes, I can.
I don't know what is marketing analysis, what is marketing research, what is Lithuania,
(06:35):
where is Lithuania.
My English was terrible.
My English not so good now, but it was terrible.
And my answer was, yes, I can.
My idea was I should do it.
My profit should be not minus.
If it will be zero, it will be perfect because experience is very important for me.
My profit was 1000 euro.
(06:58):
It was good because it was only first applying.
It wasn't a lot of amount, you know, yes, because it's like a first one.
1000 euros was not bad.
In fact, it was above expectations.
If you expected a zero profit, then you got a thousand euro.
Then it was something very good for you.
In fact, you have used this opportunity to research the market.
(07:19):
That was not like the sales target, but more like market research through this delivery,
through getting this experience, understanding how to export, how to deal with foreign clients,
etc.
Yes, sure.
I mean, it was accreditation.
My company has a customer service.
It was bank accounts, contract invoice, whole information.
(07:39):
Yes, it was very important.
It was more important than profit.
It was more important at that time.
Then, okay, it's working for me.
It's good.
I can do it.
If it works with Lithuania, it could work with Poland, with Hungary, with Moldova and
other countries.
Yes, it's good.
Then another company from Moldova also had contact with me.
(08:00):
And after a couple of supplying to other countries, Central Company that was situated in Lugansk
decided whole request from other countries that I want to import our product, sent to
me.
And then, the company from one regional dealer became exclusive exporter of trademark hire.
So, in fact, all the first contacts that you've got from different countries were inbound
(08:25):
contacts.
Yes, it was not active.
It was passive.
And it's very important because it's too difficult to make first step.
It's too difficult.
And to react for the request, it's more simple.
It's really helped me to start in this business in export.
Did you ask your clients how they found you and why they have selected you among all that
(08:49):
they found on the Internet?
You know the story with the first one.
The second one was I started to work with the Chamber of Commerce.
Ukrainian.
Ukrainian Chamber of Commerce, yes.
And it also helped me to find partners because when someone wants to work with Ukrainian
companies, he just goes to this shortlist on Chamber of Commerce and they try to work
(09:10):
with this company first of all.
Then in 2014, when the war was started in Ukraine, the company from Lugansk came to
Cherkasy to me because I was a strong dealer in that period because I'm selling to export
and also in the central region, also in Ukraine, also market was important for me.
And when Ilya, the founder of the company, came to Cherkasy, we created a new company.
(09:34):
Also we opened a company in Poland and we were like co-founders, co-owners of Hosis
trademark.
Then in this period I have my friend, he also had a business but another sphere.
He is selling some equipment for meat factory.
And when we, he also was from Lugansk and he came to Chernitsy, the west part of Ukraine
(09:54):
after the war.
And during our conversation he asked me, what do you do?
What about your business?
And my answer was I do export.
It was something unbelievable for him.
How as an expert is difficult.
Let's work together.
Let's do it together.
No problem.
Okay, let's do it together.
I give him 50% of the company because for me it's better to lose something with a clever
(10:20):
man than to find something with a stupid.
That's why, okay, no problem.
Let's do it.
And we just opened the export office in Chernitsy city, where he was.
We invite sales managers.
Actually it was not sales managers.
It was people who knew languages because it was simple to find the man who knew languages
(10:45):
or to learn languages with people who can sell it.
First of all it was Romanian, English, German.
Then it was Polish and French.
And we start.
Our idea was very simple.
The main question is who we are.
We are exclusive exporters of this unique product.
Okay, great.
To whom we can sell this product?
(11:06):
We could find the company who already selling hidden equipment on their market in Hungary,
in Slovakia, in Poland, etc.
And only because we have a unique product, it should be interesting for them.
We could have a contact with them to sell them.
It's look very simple, yeah?
Like idea.
Couple samples.
I mean we should call them, then presentations, then we'll set price, then samples, and then
(11:32):
we could start work.
And our sales managers start to call to different companies in different countries.
And we just started to send samples.
A lot of samples to a lot of companies.
United Kingdom, Germany, Poland, Hungary.
A lot of samples.
Some samples we just supply by free.
It was a big mistake.
(11:52):
It was a big mistake because attention was very bad.
If you get something free, it's not interesting for you.
But some samples it was with a little margin, but it was by money, it was with contract.
Even if it's a couple samples, it should be contract with international, average customer
and others.
And all these companies, they told us, look, if you want a big contract, please come to
(12:16):
us.
So the physical presence is important, yes?
To see each other in physical world.
Yes, it's very important.
It's very important if you really want a great contract.
If you really want a great business, work with some company, yes, it's very important.
Especially because we are from Ukraine.
(12:36):
Because for example, if your product is very good, but you are from Ukraine, it's not good
like offer for them.
What was the main risk that your potential clients were talking about?
First of all, it's bad experience with Ukrainian businessmen.
It's first of all.
That's why personal meeting was very important.
(12:56):
Second one, it's because tax.
We are not in the European Union and they should pay tax when they just get this product,
not when they just sell to end users.
It's also very important.
But first of all, it was a bad experience.
That's why we should come to our partners, see this partner and have business negotiation.
(13:17):
It's very important.
This is more about building the trust and then you start discussing the potential of
the market and sales, etc.
Yes, that's about it.
And we start thinking about, okay, let's go.
Let's go to our partners.
It was 2015.
We should have a visa.
(13:38):
It was not so simple to go.
And our first business trip was to Slovakia, Hungary and Poland.
Three countries, five companies.
It was one week, five days.
One day, one company.
So all the meetings that you had in these countries, you agreed before?
Yes, we had a contract with them.
(13:58):
Some companies already had our samples, some not.
But we have a call.
This company knows about our product, our price, our conditions, everything.
And here we go.
We could come to you, make a presentation, see you with you and everything.
Yes, it was important.
It was our first business trip.
(14:19):
After our business trip, yes, our amount grew up.
I mean, this company started buying much more quantity of our pieces.
Just understand how the visit was.
So you came to the company that you have contacted only via Skype or the internet before.
And then you met and you just discussed business issues.
(14:40):
That's it?
Yes, it was very important for us to make our relationship more warm.
And that's why we are using everything that we can to do that.
Basically it wasn't difficult because we are people no different from Ukraine, Poland,
Hungary.
(15:01):
And when we came, we were guests in their country.
And they also want to meet with us after business negotiation in their office.
And they also wanted to show us the city, maybe the country, maybe some national food.
I usually say that there are a lot of distributors at some markets.
(15:24):
There are a lot of suppliers.
All suppliers are more or less similar and distributors as well.
So they have similar products, they have similar coverage.
And the final choice of a cooperation partner is based not on the product or business, but
it is based on personal relationships.
(15:46):
So if the people like each other, then it is much more probable that they will make
business together.
Sure.
That's why we were a small company.
Yeah, we had a great product.
But this personal meeting, first of all, to have great people-to-people experience.
That's why we always came with some present from Ukraine.
(16:12):
Our mistake was when we came to Ukraine, we stopped to keep contact with this person because
it was a lot of company.
And okay, I mean, I and Alex, my business partner, yes, and we came with him to these
companies.
When we came to Ukraine, our sales specialist continued to work with this person, continuing
(16:36):
working with them.
And very often they just lose this chance because we just developed this relationship.
And then it was our mistake.
The best way, and we also did it, take your sales manager on a business trip.
This is the best way.
You came to a business trip with your sales manager, they also have some contact.
(16:57):
And then he keeps going to work with this person and you just make a strategy in your
business and so on.
This is the best way.
What is the current result?
How many countries and where do you sell your product?
During five years, since 2015, I was in 30 countries in the world.
30.
(17:17):
30 countries?
Yeah.
In some countries, for example, Poland or some countries in East Europe, I was maybe
10 times.
Krakow is like my own city.
Krakow, I know everything in Krakow.
We have companies there, yes.
And how our business trip goes through Poland or through Slovakia.
(17:40):
Some of our dealers, they came to Ukraine and it's also very important.
From Israel, from the Netherlands, it's always very important.
Now I'm trying, even when it's my contact and even I found this person, I found this
company, for example, I have experienced how I worked with the embassy of Ukraine, with
(18:00):
the whole European countries, yes, when it's my result.
But I don't have time to work with them.
Trying to meet with my sales manager and keep contact with this person.
But time to time, more information, more lettering, more connection, my manager with this company.
(18:22):
But I'm also near.
I'm also near always.
I could write him in WhatsApp.
I could say hello.
How are you?
What about our condition?
What your conversation with my sales manager?
And etc., etc., etc.
I don't forget about this partner for now because it was a really big mistake.
It's really hard.
(18:42):
Do you support your foreign partners with marketing activities?
Do you send them some materials or make brand awareness at the local market, participate
in exhibitions?
For us, our trademark is very important.
We are the company who created this product.
And it's very important how this product will be representative on their market.
(19:07):
And that's why we should support them, we should tell them how you should represent
our product.
Here is our brand book.
Here is our colors.
Here is our information.
Here is our name of our brand.
And you should call our product only like this one, but not like this one.
It's like the right name of our brand company.
(19:29):
That is why we just send all information leaflets, brochures, even instructions on how you should
talk with your customers and users.
What is a popular question?
What about our technology?
And we have this special book in different languages for different countries, from Middle
(19:49):
East and Arabic language for most European countries and English language.
And we wrote, here is about this, here is about this.
Your reaction on this question, your reaction on this question.
It's very important.
Yes.
What about the exhibition?
It's also what about the stand?
What about the view of the stand?
Our designers should work with this company always.
(20:12):
How it should be.
Yes, it's really important to support them.
If you have some idea, and for example, this idea, really great work in one of the countries.
Okay, let's just try to implement this idea in another countries.
Maybe it's also we'll be working with this country.
It's also good.
Let's have some negotiation.
(20:33):
So please tell us what about your experience in your market.
And we just could talking about this, find the new idea, create and yeah, it's very important.
Do you analyze your consumer, your final client?
Because as far as I understand, you are selling through dealers or through companies that
install this equipment in their countries.
But these are not direct sales to the consumers that are using your equipment.
(20:57):
How do you get the information?
What do your consumers like, prefer what they are looking for, if the design will work in
this country or not?
Should you change something like color, form or packaging?
Is it told to you by your partners or you are doing the research by yourself?
(21:20):
For now, we can get this information only when we have a discussion with our partners.
But we had some experience if we had a contact with our client, for example, if someone from
Netherlands wrote to our company, yes, write to our company and, okay, I want to buy a
(21:41):
product, we will send to our partners, please, this is our official distributor in this region.
Then we can write something to our client, how it was service, how it was a product.
It could be.
Maybe it's not often, but yes, it's very important when we have a conversation with our dealers,
(22:02):
our distributors, what we can do better that your selling was much more than now.
What should it be?
Yes, it maybe should be another size.
For example, in one of the markets, they have a whole window.
And that's why we should create new products special for this market, special for this
(22:25):
renovation program that they have in either one.
Okay, we do this, we create new products special for our clients.
And it's also very important.
So to sell in other markets, you need to be flexible and be ready to adapt your product
according to the client's needs.
Yes, but not all recommendations our end users write, not all.
(22:47):
In our case, for example, all our customers ask us, please do legs in your heater and
we answer the legs, it's terrible.
It's not either a heating system.
Forget about the legs.
It's not effective.
It could be just broke and everything.
Not all.
Yes, you have smart recommendation and we should do it.
(23:07):
We should be flexible.
Yes.
But it's like music, you know, it shouldn't be pop music.
It should be some fine, great music.
Yes, your recommendation is good, but in this case, please stop.
How would you describe the obstacles?
What were the main obstacles at your way to export?
(23:30):
First of all, it's about soft skills.
It's about your mind.
It's about your decision.
It's about it.
It's first of all.
But when we talked about some real obstacles, it's when we talked about the business in
Ukraine and export from Ukraine, we should have a company in Europe Union, for example,
(23:51):
when we want to export in this region.
And it's not only because of the tax, but it's very important.
But it's because delivery time of delivery is because banks in the same union currency
and everything.
Yes.
So not only the legal body, but also the warehouse.
Sure.
Yes.
And when we just started to work with friends, it was like a telling a lie for us, this country.
(24:17):
We had no experience, no information, no support, no everything.
And the result was not good because we didn't do any marketing analysis, any marketing research.
We just decided that if it works with Poland, it will work with France.
And it was a mistake.
(24:37):
When you grow up, when you develop your business time to time, you start to understand that
it should be you should do your homework.
You should do your homework.
It was a funny story when we tried to work with Ireland, Dublin, Ireland, Dublin, only
because people in this country speak English and we had a sales specialist in English.
(25:02):
Only because of that.
And we found the partners there and we supply first amount and couple pallets of our product
and then we decided let's go to them, meet with them and say hello.
Let's just do much more sales in your country, what we need to support you and that's it.
(25:22):
But we was in the airport in Dublin.
The lady on the customer service asked us, okay, guys, do you have a visa?
Sure, we have.
We was in different countries in Europe and the other, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
No, no, Ireland isn't in Schengen.
(25:44):
It was very stupid situation.
We even don't go to Wikipedia, Ireland, where is it?
What is the country?
What about population?
Visa or not visa?
And by the way, we just invite our partner from Great Britain.
He also arrived to Ireland.
He was in the enter of the airport with our samples, very heavy, 10 kilograms weight.
(26:08):
We was with our laptops, with our baggage, with everything.
And we understand that we should go back.
And then this lady on the customer officer, she asked, do you have the name of the company
which you want to meet in our country?
Yes, sure we have.
Yes, sure we have.
Do you have booked your hotel?
Yes, sure we have.
(26:29):
We even have booked the car, rent of the car.
Okay, give me five minutes.
After five minutes, they gave visa for five days.
Amazing.
It was amazing experience, but we should do a homework.
And maybe, but another way of situation, maybe if before we just, okay, Ireland, okay, we
(26:55):
should run a visa.
Too difficult.
Okay, forget about Ireland.
Let's work with maybe, you know what I'm talking about?
Maybe, maybe small company, maybe small company.
Maybe you should do some, maybe you should be flexible.
Maybe you should do these mistakes.
Interesting experience.
So this is again the entrepreneurial mind, yes, to jump into the fire and then to decide
(27:20):
how you will deal with that.
We start from this, we start exporting with this principle, yes.
And maybe it's for some time, maybe it's very important.
Well, then you also, you should do homework because you could spend a lot of money and
you could spend a lot of time, a lot of time, not only your time, but you could spend time
(27:42):
of your sales specialist.
It's also important because it's responsibility for them also, it's responsibility for the
trademark, for your distributors.
And when you grow up, when you develop your business, you can do these mistakes, but when
you start, you can't do it.
It's like short period when you can be brave, when it could be rock and roll and the business,
(28:05):
maybe you could try it.
Okay.
We are running out of time already.
Maybe the last question to you.
What are your plans for future in terms of international markets?
First of all, our plans is work with our dealers deeply.
In the countries where we already have our partners, our strategy is work deeply, help
(28:29):
them to grow their business in their country with different types of clients, with governments,
with distributors, build distributors network, make some popularization of trademark and
etc. etc.
Because on the start of our business, our vision was let's just work everywhere with
(28:50):
everyone and then we will see.
Now our vision is work very deeply with our partners.
So to focus on those countries where you are already present.
Yeah, it's very important.
Now we just think that some companies that we need, some distributors that we need in
this country, it's like a castle and we should enter in this castle.
(29:14):
Maybe if we need to spend a lot of time for this, let it be.
If we really know that it's really very important for our company, it's really great market
for us because we had a marketing analysis before and everything, everything, everything.
That is our strategy for now.
And only because we are a company who not only selling but creating new product.
(29:37):
For us, very important to create something new, not work with only one product.
It's also important for our dealers.
What would you advise to other exporters?
Give them a tip how to expand internationally.
During my experience, I had a lot of meetings in the Chamber of Commerce, in some business
(29:58):
trainings and in some in the embassy, for example.
And I met with people who really had a great business in Ukraine and they wanted to sell
to another countries.
But they just talked about that.
They just tell me why they can't.
(30:20):
You know, oh, we can't because we have no sound certificate.
Oh, we can because we have no partner.
Oh, we can because because because because because.
And there is a main reason and my recommendation, you should decide it.
Yes, it will be a lot of work.
Yes, you should be, you should do a lot of work.
You should meet with new people.
(30:42):
You should you should have new knowledge about how it's working.
So but you should decide it here and now.
And for this decision, you shouldn't have any other information.
It's only about you and about your business, about your vision, about you decide only about
this.
And my recommendation, please don't lie to yourself.
(31:04):
Don't lie.
If you really want, just say, OK, I'm ready.
Let's go.
Thank you, Vladislav, for such an interesting story and conversation.
Thank you for being with me at the show.
Yeah, thank you to you.
You do a great job.
If I could listen to your podcast 10 years ago, it really could help me.
(31:24):
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I hope to see you on the shelves of all DIY supermarkets in Europe.
Good luck.
Yeah.
Thank you.
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