March 14, 2023 • 26 mins
Can the tradeshows be an effective tool for your international expansion?
Many would say – no. But it’s like in he old joke about pesto recipe “Your pesto recipe is bad, I did all what you wrote, but I didn’t have pine nuts, olive oil and basil, so I took peanuts, sunflower oil and parsley – nothing close to the real pesto souse” 😊
In this episode of the Start Global Insights I talk to Julia Lisovska, commercial director of the successful Ukrainian family-owned furniture producer Tivoli that exports to more than 24 countries of the world.
Julia is sharing their way of going globally and reveals the secrets of successful tradeshows participation.
We have discussed:
- How to use tradeshows and expos efficiently.
- Why export is inevitable if you would like to grow.
- How hard is to find clients abroad.
- Why long-term thinking is a must in international business.
- And much more.
If you want to hear more about finding your clients abroad, please, leave us your feedback on Apple podcast or write to the podcast@start-global.biz
Speakers LinkedIn Profiles:
Guest, Julia Lisovska https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-lisovska-74893598/
Host, Dmytro Shvets https://www.linkedin.com/in/dshvets/
This podcast is made in a partnership with Do Business With Ukrainians, the platform of Ukrainian business teams you can work with now Work with verified teams.
Create your international expansion strategy with Start Global, your guide to foreign markets. https://www.start-global.biz/
Listen the Start Global Insights Podcast on all major podcast platforms and YouTube.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, I'm Dmytro Shvets, your host and the star of Global Insights, where I interview experts
(00:11):
in different countries about local business secrets and international expansion experience.
Today my guest is Julia Lisovska, she is a sales director of the Ukrainian furniture
company Tivoli and she also develops the brand of the company abroad.
The company is successfully selling furniture all over the world in Europe, Asia, North
(00:33):
and South Americas and today I will ask Yulia to share all the secrets of their international
expansion.
Hi, Yulia, welcome to the show.
Hello, thank you.
Yulia, you are quite long time already in the company, so you are working more than 10 years
there.
Could you tell us a short story of the company and the experience of the company, what does
(00:57):
it do?
So, we are more than 10 years old.
Our company is a group of companies.
So we are a manufacturer, we are a wholesaler in Ukraine and we have our own showrooms in
Ukraine and we produce and sell chairs and tables to Europeans, to American markets and
(01:22):
South American markets and also to some Asian countries.
And our company Tivoli is a brand and if to take into consideration that we started our
brand just after the previous crisis and then we were working during COVID and now during
(01:50):
our full war times.
So I believe that shows the strength of our company and brand that we keep working, not
stopping at any circumstances.
Under any circumstances you are working and stay strong.
Yes.
And why did you decide to go abroad?
(02:13):
How it was that you decided to start expert activities?
Our company is family-run.
So it was the decision of my father and mother just because the company is a big manufacturer
and the market of Ukraine is quite small for that quantities.
And of course you should look for the stable sales where you can sell because if you are
(02:38):
a factory you need to give work to the factory not only for this month but you need to have
some schedule and some reliable customers that is very important for the factory because
we are a factory with 200 people working inside.
So 200 families.
So your production is located in Ukraine?
Yes, our production is located in Ukraine in the western part of Ukraine near Lviv.
(03:04):
You have decided to go abroad.
How did you start doing that?
What were your first steps?
What was the approach?
My father started this just to say export is not so difficult.
These people could imagine for themselves.
So what you should do?
You should develop and produce really competitive product at competitive price and clearly understand
(03:29):
who is your buyer.
So whom you can propose your product.
And when you have all this done you can go abroad to the fairs.
Now it is even much easier.
Now you have LinkedIn, now you have Google and whatever so you can knock the doors and
propose your goods.
(03:50):
But also another suggestion is that you can go to the markets, to the fairs and see who
is there with which products, which price levels and so on.
And compare yourself and find possible wholesalers there just to start.
Just to get acquainted to the market, to its expectations.
(04:12):
If you start to sell to consumers it is also possible.
Why not?
But then it is your first steps and your first mistakes.
You can pay a higher price.
So you have chosen as a client not the end consumer but the partners in new countries.
(04:33):
Yes.
You have customers more than in 24 countries and they are wholesalers, they are retailers,
they are B2B companies who work with the hospitality or contract market.
I mean restaurants, cafes and so on.
So they resell to them on their local markets.
(04:54):
I could even tell that our B2B customer in the UK sold some of our products to Starbucks.
Oh, great.
Now everybody who are in the UK can fill your products with their bodies.
Is it possible to define that this is your chair?
Do you have a label on that?
(05:15):
Or it is like under Starbucks brand already?
It was under Starbucks brand.
I suppose if it was possible so.
It could be a very good advertisement for us.
You can now describe how the chair looks like and so everybody who will now enter Starbucks
will look not for the coffee but for Ukrainian chairs to sit on.
(05:37):
Yes.
UK market has some specific kind of taste but their market is very huge, really.
Once I asked my customer, where do you sell so many chairs?
Really.
I don't understand.
Two models, two colors and thousands each month.
(05:58):
Where do you sell?
And he told, he works with the pubs, restaurants, cafes.
He told, you know, Julia, our pubs change chairs every three years.
I just was like this with my eyes opened how many pubs they have.
So it's a very huge market.
(06:19):
Coming back to the process of choosing the country, how did you do that?
How did you understand where to focus and where to start?
For example, now we have three buyers in UK but all those buyers are for the contract
market, for the restaurants, cafes and hospitality.
And I understand that the market of UK is very huge for the domestic use.
(06:44):
It's very huge.
It's 80 millions of people who have money.
And what also I understand that the main wood from which we produce beech is they like it.
I think it's okay.
The models are okay.
So I just need to find suitable retailer.
So that is how I would choose the market.
(07:05):
So I see the market of UK, good market situation, a lot of people, our models and goods are
okay for their market and we are not enough presented there.
So we turn into the UK side and start looking for the contacts.
(07:27):
So the main criteria of country choice is the consumer number in terms of business consumers
and also private consumers.
You estimate how many potential clients you have in the country and that is the criteria
of choice.
And if our product is suitable for them.
(07:47):
So we don't need to make a bicycle.
And how do you understand whether your product is suitable or not?
It might be experience because I'm working in this business for 14 years.
And we work a lot with the customers.
(08:09):
We visit a lot of trade shows, trade fairs, markets all over the world.
So we see the taste of the market.
We understand.
So when you have some background, some experience, it is just that you feel if that is okay or
not okay.
(08:31):
I suppose somewhere in your head, in the back, you just have some criteria and you think,
okay, okay, okay, or not okay.
So you need to analyze the potential countries before and you are doing that via exhibitions.
So you were actually visiting and seeing that.
And then you are choosing according to this criteria of having the competitors and having
(08:56):
the design that is matching the expectations of the local customer and then also the potential
number of the customers.
And then it matches the country choice.
And of course, when we exhibit ourselves, and it is very important to exhibit into the
international trade shows, we have direct conversation to possible buyers.
(09:21):
And we hear from the first hands what they think, what their market is and so on.
So you have with the real players of the market, you have a conversation where you can ask.
If you have a possibility to sell, you should sell.
(09:41):
Is there a case that somebody is coming to your stand and immediately asking you for
an order?
Yes.
This January, we were doing Ukrainian pavilion at Las Vegas market.
And some Canadians came with the Canadian agent.
(10:04):
It was the show started on Sunday.
The agent came on Saturday.
He just looked around, but he likes to get some information from us.
And on Sunday, they came first in the morning with the customers.
Then he came around two o'clock, three o'clock.
(10:25):
So after lunchtime, we sat down and wrote the order.
And the next week we have to load it already, the container to Canada.
And it is one of them, I don't know how to say, what on the US market is done.
They are ready to come and spend their money, not just to look around for designs or something.
(10:49):
They came to buy.
So if you have a possibility, you need to catch that customer.
Yulia, you said that a lot about the exhibitions.
So exhibitions are quite important in your journey abroad and in sales.
But what I hear now, especially from beginners when they start selling abroad, and they say,
(11:14):
well, we have been visiting several exhibitions and nothing happened.
So the conclusion is that exhibitions do not work.
You cannot sell via exhibitions.
But you are quite successful with that.
So how do you think what is wrong with that?
What should be done prior to that?
What is your experience with that?
First of all, the one exhibition won't give you a result.
(11:38):
So if you come, for example, we will take IMM Cologne in Germany.
It's an international furniture fair, very big, one of the biggest in Europe.
And when we started to participate there and show our goods there, the results won't arrive
from the first show.
You need to keep participation for at least two and more shows.
(12:04):
And after each new show, you will get more and more feedback.
Because when you come to the show, you are new.
Nobody knows you.
Nobody knows your company.
Once again, when you come to the show, it's a wrong position when you just sit and wait
for your customer.
You need to do your homework.
You need to invite your possible customers to your booth.
(12:28):
You need to tell them that you are going to exhibit.
Also, when you come to the fair, you need to go around and look, if you are a manufacturer,
look around who could be your possible buyer.
Why not to propose them?
Because especially when this is not such as IMM Cologne, but smaller fairs and more local
(12:52):
fairs, then it means that wholesalers are local operators.
So you come here to them with your samples and ready for conversation.
So they don't need to come to you and so on.
And what can I share that, for example, this year I use LinkedIn as a tool very much and
(13:13):
I should tell that it is very workable.
Why not?
If you...
It's such an option.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize it before, because you just get direct contact to possible people
who are in charge of buying.
Okay, you write first message, no reaction, second, tenth, but if you find some good picture,
(13:37):
good text, and maybe once they will look at your message.
And if you send 1000 messages and you get 10 messages back or 20, it's a very good result
because what did you invest?
Your time, your efforts, and that's all.
(13:58):
So it is about the consistency, belief in your product, in your business, and understanding
the value that you are bringing to your potential client.
So in fact, in this case, you don't sell furniture, you sell a possibility to earn money with
you.
Yes.
How many countries is it possible to enter simultaneously?
(14:21):
Oh, that is quite difficult question because when we choose a market, we understand, for
example, we take Scandinavian countries.
When we take Scandinavian countries and we understand that three or four countries, because
when we take our neighbor countries like Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, that is another
(14:45):
group of countries.
How do you group them according to what?
To design preferences or?
To the model, to the designs we are able to sell there.
But usually when we focus on the markets with the bigger demand, I mean, where we can sell
more, where is more buying capacity, if I can tell so, is higher.
(15:11):
And we move there and then other countries just, we have customers in other countries
and then when they saw some model, they just add their orders to those countries and we
are going like that.
Yeah.
What I mean is that, for example, you have chosen the Scandinavian market to work with
and it will consume your resources.
So you need to call to your clients, understand the market, analyze that, understand the models
(15:38):
that are interesting for this market, go into exhibitions and you can't do that for many
directions at once.
Yeah.
So you need to focus to some...
In this case, we choose the biggest shows which, how to say, unite some group of countries.
So for example, in furniture world, there are, like, if we talk about the mass market
(16:04):
is IMM Cologne, where came a lot of Scandinavian countries, French, UK, I think all the Europe
and a little of the USA, Japan also came there.
And because they have like, I don't know, 11 holes, big holes, and you can find a lot
(16:26):
of furniture.
Then you can take like IMM, or you can take I Saloni in Italy, which unite, I don't know,
customers all over the world because USA, Canada, Australia, Japan, everybody came there
just to...
They are different.
If IMM Cologne is more about trading, I Saloni is about design, about new models, about new
(16:52):
trends in the furniture world.
Then you can take, for example, our neighbor Poznań in Poland, Poznań Fair, where people
are coming to find suppliers, East Europe suppliers.
They are not coming for the trends or designs like in I Saloni.
They are coming to find sources and that kind of the fair.
(17:17):
And then when if we come to USA, or American markets, it's USA markets, main USA markets,
where you can find.
So you don't need to go to each country because local shows could be too small and too, how
to say, in borders.
That if you will show at the local market, you will need to sell to all the local stores
(17:42):
and you need to have some warehouse and be in that country.
And that is something difficult for us because we are not going to operate some local country.
We want to find bigger customers, which will be able to buy directly trucks from us.
And for the local shows, you can come visit and find there your wholesalers, as I told,
(18:09):
just come and talk about, maybe you can be interesting for them and see what could happen
then.
So your strategy is to find these hubs of concentration of different buyers from around
the world.
But prior to that, you already investigated these countries and found potential buyers
(18:31):
from that countries to invite them on your expo in these hubs.
So the exhibition, these big exhibitions are just the meeting points for your homework
that you have done.
Exactly.
You're absolutely right.
You have quite a big experience in different countries already.
(18:51):
From your experience, what are the easiest countries to enter and what are the most difficult?
Of course, European countries are easier because they are closer to us.
Closer just from geographical point of view, you suggested it is closer to go there.
And geographical and mentality, and because still, I believe more Ukrainians visited European
(19:18):
countries than they visited USA or any other continent, let's tell so.
And it is something more understandable for us because first time I got, I was in USA,
it was like cultural shock, if I can tell so.
So you see another, you see like the life like in cinema.
What is the main difference between Europe and US?
(19:41):
As for me personally, European market is much closer, is much more understandable.
And USA is more difficult, first of all, because you're a foreigner for them.
You are totally new to them.
And another thing that US market, if to talk about the furniture, they are so deep in the
(20:04):
Asia, just because they have also their offices there to check the quality, to check the orders
and so on.
So they are deep into their connection to Asia.
If we talk about European products, it is another level.
So when they understand they buy European, it must be higher level, higher quality, and
(20:29):
it's not like only a source of the furniture.
It should be some like developed product.
Because when they buy in Asia, I think the attitude is like to source that they can produce
a lot and they just need to buy some products.
And then you need to find why you are better.
(20:50):
It is much more harder to compete with Asian furniture just on price level.
Yeah, so you need to propose something different from the design point of view or for some
unique usage of this furniture.
You should compete in other levels.
Yes, it should be quality design, the total product.
(21:13):
You can't go into the competition into the lowest level because Asian factories, they
can produce two models, but 10,000 of each.
And then they don't need to switch the machinery.
They just put the pieces of the wood, you get details, and it's like you just do some
(21:36):
simple work without...
Yeah, so the economies of scale does not allow you to compete with them in this mass market
production.
So you need to find out something unique.
Yes.
Okay, clear.
And I think that what we have been talking about earlier, that you are selling not only
the furniture, so not only the product, you are selling yourself as a company, as a partner.
(21:58):
Yeah, so you are selling the added value of communication, of reliability, of understanding
the culture.
So you are selling the services actually, not the product.
Yes, it's very important to support the customer, not only to sell the products, but to support
with some service.
And the world is round.
(22:21):
And when you are in the furniture business, and for a long time, then some players already
know you, already know your company.
It's like rumors, not rumors, but they talk about you.
Word of mouth.
Yes.
(22:41):
They talk about your company, about what you did good, what you did bad, and more or less
you have some image.
And if that image is good, then it's much easier to get new customers, new orders.
I would even tell you such a funny story that once there is a big company in USA, a wholesaler,
(23:07):
and I was knocking their doors.
And we are familiar with the CEO.
Now he became a CEO before he was, I think, someone in purchases.
And we were messaging in WhatsApp with him.
And he told, do you know some Finnish guy?
He told the name.
(23:27):
Yes, I told.
We met with, I know him for a long time.
And the last time I met him in Kiev, it was in 2021, in autumn.
And then he talked with that guy from Finland, who is also a furniture wholesaler.
And that Finnish guy told that we are a reliable company, a good company.
(23:52):
And so the world is round as it is.
You don't know where to expect good or bad things to be told about your company.
So you're investing in your references.
So you understand that everybody can be your guide to a new customer in terms of your experience.
(24:15):
What would you advise to the beginners exporters?
What is the most important thing to consider when you are going abroad?
To understand that you are competitive.
You need to clearly understand who are your competitors on the abroad market.
(24:37):
And if you understand that you match all the parameters, quality, design, price, delivery
terms, all, then you just go and compete.
What wouldn't you do if you knew that before?
Yeah.
So what are the types of actions that you would prefer not to repeat?
(25:01):
I was thinking about this and you know, myself, I couldn't answer that.
Because what is correct or incorrect, it's very, it depends on the situation, on the
situation, on the place, on the people who are around you.
So everything what we did in short or long period of time, bring some fruits or bring
(25:29):
you experience, which you can then transform in something new.
Or even if it is bad experience, it is experience.
Anyway, the customer will vote for your company or your product with his money.
Keep going to promote Ukrainian brand abroad with such a high quality.
(25:49):
During this difficult for Ukraine time, we tell our story.
We tell the story of Ukraine.
Ukraine is wonderful country.
And that is when you have that mission that even gives you some strength to present not
only your company, but in some way you present Ukraine and Ukrainian people that we are open,
(26:10):
open-minded, open-minded.
We're open for the cooperation.
We are so, we're so wonderful.
Why not?
Amazing.
I totally agree.
We are.
Hi, I'm Dmytro Shvets, your host and the star of Global Insights, where I interview experts
(00:11):
in different countries about local business secrets and international expansion experience.
Today my guest is Julia Lisovska, she is a sales director of the Ukrainian furniture
company Tivoli and she also develops the brand of the company abroad.
The company is successfully selling furniture all over the world in Europe, Asia, North
(00:33):
and South Americas and today I will ask Yulia to share all the secrets of their international
expansion.
Hi, Yulia, welcome to the show.
Hello, thank you.
Yulia, you are quite long time already in the company, so you are working more than 10 years
there.
Could you tell us a short story of the company and the experience of the company, what does
(00:57):
it do?
So, we are more than 10 years old.
Our company is a group of companies.
So we are a manufacturer, we are a wholesaler in Ukraine and we have our own showrooms in
Ukraine and we produce and sell chairs and tables to Europeans, to American markets and
(01:22):
South American markets and also to some Asian countries.
And our company Tivoli is a brand and if to take into consideration that we started our
brand just after the previous crisis and then we were working during COVID and now during
(01:50):
our full war times.
So I believe that shows the strength of our company and brand that we keep working, not
stopping at any circumstances.
Under any circumstances you are working and stay strong.
Yes.
And why did you decide to go abroad?
(02:13):
How it was that you decided to start expert activities?
Our company is family-run.
So it was the decision of my father and mother just because the company is a big manufacturer
and the market of Ukraine is quite small for that quantities.
And of course you should look for the stable sales where you can sell because if you are
(02:38):
a factory you need to give work to the factory not only for this month but you need to have
some schedule and some reliable customers that is very important for the factory because
we are a factory with 200 people working inside.
So 200 families.
So your production is located in Ukraine?
Yes, our production is located in Ukraine in the western part of Ukraine near Lviv.
(03:04):
You have decided to go abroad.
How did you start doing that?
What were your first steps?
What was the approach?
My father started this just to say export is not so difficult.
These people could imagine for themselves.
So what you should do?
You should develop and produce really competitive product at competitive price and clearly understand
(03:29):
who is your buyer.
So whom you can propose your product.
And when you have all this done you can go abroad to the fairs.
Now it is even much easier.
Now you have LinkedIn, now you have Google and whatever so you can knock the doors and
propose your goods.
(03:50):
But also another suggestion is that you can go to the markets, to the fairs and see who
is there with which products, which price levels and so on.
And compare yourself and find possible wholesalers there just to start.
Just to get acquainted to the market, to its expectations.
(04:12):
If you start to sell to consumers it is also possible.
Why not?
But then it is your first steps and your first mistakes.
You can pay a higher price.
So you have chosen as a client not the end consumer but the partners in new countries.
(04:33):
Yes.
You have customers more than in 24 countries and they are wholesalers, they are retailers,
they are B2B companies who work with the hospitality or contract market.
I mean restaurants, cafes and so on.
So they resell to them on their local markets.
(04:54):
I could even tell that our B2B customer in the UK sold some of our products to Starbucks.
Oh, great.
Now everybody who are in the UK can fill your products with their bodies.
Is it possible to define that this is your chair?
Do you have a label on that?
(05:15):
Or it is like under Starbucks brand already?
It was under Starbucks brand.
I suppose if it was possible so.
It could be a very good advertisement for us.
You can now describe how the chair looks like and so everybody who will now enter Starbucks
will look not for the coffee but for Ukrainian chairs to sit on.
(05:37):
Yes.
UK market has some specific kind of taste but their market is very huge, really.
Once I asked my customer, where do you sell so many chairs?
Really.
I don't understand.
Two models, two colors and thousands each month.
(05:58):
Where do you sell?
And he told, he works with the pubs, restaurants, cafes.
He told, you know, Julia, our pubs change chairs every three years.
I just was like this with my eyes opened how many pubs they have.
So it's a very huge market.
(06:19):
Coming back to the process of choosing the country, how did you do that?
How did you understand where to focus and where to start?
For example, now we have three buyers in UK but all those buyers are for the contract
market, for the restaurants, cafes and hospitality.
And I understand that the market of UK is very huge for the domestic use.
(06:44):
It's very huge.
It's 80 millions of people who have money.
And what also I understand that the main wood from which we produce beech is they like it.
I think it's okay.
The models are okay.
So I just need to find suitable retailer.
So that is how I would choose the market.
(07:05):
So I see the market of UK, good market situation, a lot of people, our models and goods are
okay for their market and we are not enough presented there.
So we turn into the UK side and start looking for the contacts.
(07:27):
So the main criteria of country choice is the consumer number in terms of business consumers
and also private consumers.
You estimate how many potential clients you have in the country and that is the criteria
of choice.
And if our product is suitable for them.
(07:47):
So we don't need to make a bicycle.
And how do you understand whether your product is suitable or not?
It might be experience because I'm working in this business for 14 years.
And we work a lot with the customers.
(08:09):
We visit a lot of trade shows, trade fairs, markets all over the world.
So we see the taste of the market.
We understand.
So when you have some background, some experience, it is just that you feel if that is okay or
not okay.
(08:31):
I suppose somewhere in your head, in the back, you just have some criteria and you think,
okay, okay, okay, or not okay.
So you need to analyze the potential countries before and you are doing that via exhibitions.
So you were actually visiting and seeing that.
And then you are choosing according to this criteria of having the competitors and having
(08:56):
the design that is matching the expectations of the local customer and then also the potential
number of the customers.
And then it matches the country choice.
And of course, when we exhibit ourselves, and it is very important to exhibit into the
international trade shows, we have direct conversation to possible buyers.
(09:21):
And we hear from the first hands what they think, what their market is and so on.
So you have with the real players of the market, you have a conversation where you can ask.
If you have a possibility to sell, you should sell.
(09:41):
Is there a case that somebody is coming to your stand and immediately asking you for
an order?
Yes.
This January, we were doing Ukrainian pavilion at Las Vegas market.
And some Canadians came with the Canadian agent.
(10:04):
It was the show started on Sunday.
The agent came on Saturday.
He just looked around, but he likes to get some information from us.
And on Sunday, they came first in the morning with the customers.
Then he came around two o'clock, three o'clock.
(10:25):
So after lunchtime, we sat down and wrote the order.
And the next week we have to load it already, the container to Canada.
And it is one of them, I don't know how to say, what on the US market is done.
They are ready to come and spend their money, not just to look around for designs or something.
(10:49):
They came to buy.
So if you have a possibility, you need to catch that customer.
Yulia, you said that a lot about the exhibitions.
So exhibitions are quite important in your journey abroad and in sales.
But what I hear now, especially from beginners when they start selling abroad, and they say,
(11:14):
well, we have been visiting several exhibitions and nothing happened.
So the conclusion is that exhibitions do not work.
You cannot sell via exhibitions.
But you are quite successful with that.
So how do you think what is wrong with that?
What should be done prior to that?
What is your experience with that?
First of all, the one exhibition won't give you a result.
(11:38):
So if you come, for example, we will take IMM Cologne in Germany.
It's an international furniture fair, very big, one of the biggest in Europe.
And when we started to participate there and show our goods there, the results won't arrive
from the first show.
You need to keep participation for at least two and more shows.
(12:04):
And after each new show, you will get more and more feedback.
Because when you come to the show, you are new.
Nobody knows you.
Nobody knows your company.
Once again, when you come to the show, it's a wrong position when you just sit and wait
for your customer.
You need to do your homework.
You need to invite your possible customers to your booth.
(12:28):
You need to tell them that you are going to exhibit.
Also, when you come to the fair, you need to go around and look, if you are a manufacturer,
look around who could be your possible buyer.
Why not to propose them?
Because especially when this is not such as IMM Cologne, but smaller fairs and more local
(12:52):
fairs, then it means that wholesalers are local operators.
So you come here to them with your samples and ready for conversation.
So they don't need to come to you and so on.
And what can I share that, for example, this year I use LinkedIn as a tool very much and
(13:13):
I should tell that it is very workable.
Why not?
If you...
It's such an option.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize it before, because you just get direct contact to possible people
who are in charge of buying.
Okay, you write first message, no reaction, second, tenth, but if you find some good picture,
(13:37):
good text, and maybe once they will look at your message.
And if you send 1000 messages and you get 10 messages back or 20, it's a very good result
because what did you invest?
Your time, your efforts, and that's all.
(13:58):
So it is about the consistency, belief in your product, in your business, and understanding
the value that you are bringing to your potential client.
So in fact, in this case, you don't sell furniture, you sell a possibility to earn money with
you.
Yes.
How many countries is it possible to enter simultaneously?
(14:21):
Oh, that is quite difficult question because when we choose a market, we understand, for
example, we take Scandinavian countries.
When we take Scandinavian countries and we understand that three or four countries, because
when we take our neighbor countries like Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, that is another
(14:45):
group of countries.
How do you group them according to what?
To design preferences or?
To the model, to the designs we are able to sell there.
But usually when we focus on the markets with the bigger demand, I mean, where we can sell
more, where is more buying capacity, if I can tell so, is higher.
(15:11):
And we move there and then other countries just, we have customers in other countries
and then when they saw some model, they just add their orders to those countries and we
are going like that.
Yeah.
What I mean is that, for example, you have chosen the Scandinavian market to work with
and it will consume your resources.
So you need to call to your clients, understand the market, analyze that, understand the models
(15:38):
that are interesting for this market, go into exhibitions and you can't do that for many
directions at once.
Yeah.
So you need to focus to some...
In this case, we choose the biggest shows which, how to say, unite some group of countries.
So for example, in furniture world, there are, like, if we talk about the mass market
(16:04):
is IMM Cologne, where came a lot of Scandinavian countries, French, UK, I think all the Europe
and a little of the USA, Japan also came there.
And because they have like, I don't know, 11 holes, big holes, and you can find a lot
(16:26):
of furniture.
Then you can take like IMM, or you can take I Saloni in Italy, which unite, I don't know,
customers all over the world because USA, Canada, Australia, Japan, everybody came there
just to...
They are different.
If IMM Cologne is more about trading, I Saloni is about design, about new models, about new
(16:52):
trends in the furniture world.
Then you can take, for example, our neighbor Poznań in Poland, Poznań Fair, where people
are coming to find suppliers, East Europe suppliers.
They are not coming for the trends or designs like in I Saloni.
They are coming to find sources and that kind of the fair.
(17:17):
And then when if we come to USA, or American markets, it's USA markets, main USA markets,
where you can find.
So you don't need to go to each country because local shows could be too small and too, how
to say, in borders.
That if you will show at the local market, you will need to sell to all the local stores
(17:42):
and you need to have some warehouse and be in that country.
And that is something difficult for us because we are not going to operate some local country.
We want to find bigger customers, which will be able to buy directly trucks from us.
And for the local shows, you can come visit and find there your wholesalers, as I told,
(18:09):
just come and talk about, maybe you can be interesting for them and see what could happen
then.
So your strategy is to find these hubs of concentration of different buyers from around
the world.
But prior to that, you already investigated these countries and found potential buyers
(18:31):
from that countries to invite them on your expo in these hubs.
So the exhibition, these big exhibitions are just the meeting points for your homework
that you have done.
Exactly.
You're absolutely right.
You have quite a big experience in different countries already.
(18:51):
From your experience, what are the easiest countries to enter and what are the most difficult?
Of course, European countries are easier because they are closer to us.
Closer just from geographical point of view, you suggested it is closer to go there.
And geographical and mentality, and because still, I believe more Ukrainians visited European
(19:18):
countries than they visited USA or any other continent, let's tell so.
And it is something more understandable for us because first time I got, I was in USA,
it was like cultural shock, if I can tell so.
So you see another, you see like the life like in cinema.
What is the main difference between Europe and US?
(19:41):
As for me personally, European market is much closer, is much more understandable.
And USA is more difficult, first of all, because you're a foreigner for them.
You are totally new to them.
And another thing that US market, if to talk about the furniture, they are so deep in the
(20:04):
Asia, just because they have also their offices there to check the quality, to check the orders
and so on.
So they are deep into their connection to Asia.
If we talk about European products, it is another level.
So when they understand they buy European, it must be higher level, higher quality, and
(20:29):
it's not like only a source of the furniture.
It should be some like developed product.
Because when they buy in Asia, I think the attitude is like to source that they can produce
a lot and they just need to buy some products.
And then you need to find why you are better.
(20:50):
It is much more harder to compete with Asian furniture just on price level.
Yeah, so you need to propose something different from the design point of view or for some
unique usage of this furniture.
You should compete in other levels.
Yes, it should be quality design, the total product.
(21:13):
You can't go into the competition into the lowest level because Asian factories, they
can produce two models, but 10,000 of each.
And then they don't need to switch the machinery.
They just put the pieces of the wood, you get details, and it's like you just do some
(21:36):
simple work without...
Yeah, so the economies of scale does not allow you to compete with them in this mass market
production.
So you need to find out something unique.
Yes.
Okay, clear.
And I think that what we have been talking about earlier, that you are selling not only
the furniture, so not only the product, you are selling yourself as a company, as a partner.
(21:58):
Yeah, so you are selling the added value of communication, of reliability, of understanding
the culture.
So you are selling the services actually, not the product.
Yes, it's very important to support the customer, not only to sell the products, but to support
with some service.
And the world is round.
(22:21):
And when you are in the furniture business, and for a long time, then some players already
know you, already know your company.
It's like rumors, not rumors, but they talk about you.
Word of mouth.
Yes.
(22:41):
They talk about your company, about what you did good, what you did bad, and more or less
you have some image.
And if that image is good, then it's much easier to get new customers, new orders.
I would even tell you such a funny story that once there is a big company in USA, a wholesaler,
(23:07):
and I was knocking their doors.
And we are familiar with the CEO.
Now he became a CEO before he was, I think, someone in purchases.
And we were messaging in WhatsApp with him.
And he told, do you know some Finnish guy?
He told the name.
(23:27):
Yes, I told.
We met with, I know him for a long time.
And the last time I met him in Kiev, it was in 2021, in autumn.
And then he talked with that guy from Finland, who is also a furniture wholesaler.
And that Finnish guy told that we are a reliable company, a good company.
(23:52):
And so the world is round as it is.
You don't know where to expect good or bad things to be told about your company.
So you're investing in your references.
So you understand that everybody can be your guide to a new customer in terms of your experience.
(24:15):
What would you advise to the beginners exporters?
What is the most important thing to consider when you are going abroad?
To understand that you are competitive.
You need to clearly understand who are your competitors on the abroad market.
(24:37):
And if you understand that you match all the parameters, quality, design, price, delivery
terms, all, then you just go and compete.
What wouldn't you do if you knew that before?
Yeah.
So what are the types of actions that you would prefer not to repeat?
(25:01):
I was thinking about this and you know, myself, I couldn't answer that.
Because what is correct or incorrect, it's very, it depends on the situation, on the
situation, on the place, on the people who are around you.
So everything what we did in short or long period of time, bring some fruits or bring
(25:29):
you experience, which you can then transform in something new.
Or even if it is bad experience, it is experience.
Anyway, the customer will vote for your company or your product with his money.
Keep going to promote Ukrainian brand abroad with such a high quality.
(25:49):
During this difficult for Ukraine time, we tell our story.
We tell the story of Ukraine.
Ukraine is wonderful country.
And that is when you have that mission that even gives you some strength to present not
only your company, but in some way you present Ukraine and Ukrainian people that we are open,
(26:10):
open-minded, open-minded.
We're open for the cooperation.
We are so, we're so wonderful.
Why not?
Amazing.
I totally agree.
We are.
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